National Park After Dark - Queen of the Skies: Tuskegee Airmen National Historic Site

Episode Date: March 25, 2024

Bessie Coleman was the first woman to get her international pilots license. She was also the first African American woman to become a stunt pilot and perform around the country. When her rising stardom and unyielding attitude towards racism and segregation leads to her questionable death, outrage sparks across the country.For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Factor: Use our link and code npad50 to get 50% offTaylor Farm Hemp Co: Use code NPAD for 15% off your first order plus free shipping.For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Monday AI agents took over my work. And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Monday.com. So they see the full picture, my work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff,

knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more.

Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. the skies and the Florida sun while the day is new and flowers are wet with the morning dew, she falls and lies. A brown bird girl, first of the race to soar the heights. Our glorious pinions and daring flights, of plain swift whirl, we dashed the tear from our welling eyes since she flew to meet the great adventure on pinions feel devoid of fear. A race well run, intrepid bravery to dare and do what noble pillar when striving through and life is done welcome to national

park after dark was that a poem yes so that's a poem i found and it's written i guess a little bit differently because it was written in 1928 and the poem i read was written by harry levitt and it was published in a newspaper of the california eagle on friday december 21st 1928 and it it is specifically about the woman of the story today, Bessie Coleman. Okay. I'm excited for this one because I know a little bit of her story, but from what you have alluded to, from what you've gathered for research, I knew a small fraction of what you're about to tell everyone.

Cool. That makes me happy because I know her story is more and more widely told. And I know that there have been other podcasts that have covered her. and I haven't listened to them because I don't like to, I don't like to listen to other podcasts for research very often because I think that everyone picks their own direction that they want to go in and I don't want to copy anyone in that sense. Or, I don't know, I just, I didn't want to get like bias of what I wanted to say and what I didn't want to say from another story. So I watched a documentary for this. It's called The Legend Bessie Coleman. I found it on Amazon.

And I also read a couple other articles and things like that. But I'm going to be telling the story of Bessie Coleman, who was an African-American woman who became one of the best pilots in the country in the 1920s, despite being told that she couldn't because she was a woman and because she was a black woman. She was told because she was a woman, she was too emotional to be able to handle stressful situations or perform under pressure. And she was told because she was an African-American woman, she was simply not smart enough. to be able to fly or navigate a plane. And what park is this associated with? Because like I said, when I've heard her story before, I have not heard a breath of the National Park Service.

So I'm not shocked that they're involved somehow because they're everywhere, but I'm just curious. She is associated with Tuskegee Airman National Historic Site, which is located in Alabama. And she is actually not the national park is not associated or wasn't created. because of her, but she is a large part of the reason that the National Park was created. And there's a whole story behind that National Park, too. So I'm going to hop into her story because it's full of her overcoming adversities,

solo travel and education around the world, which eventually led her back to the United States where she performed aerobatic stunts and air shows across the country. And then I'm also going to talk about the history of the National Park because the National Park commemorates the African-American airmen who served in World War II, which was a time where black men were not allowed to fly planes in the military. Bessie Coleman's story takes place before the Tuskegee Airmen proved not only their capabilities in war, but also became one of the most elite military sectors the United States had. Bessie was taking charge before the incredible men of this group, but without a doubt contributed to their success decades later. Today, the National

Park site honors her and her story as well. So that's how she's telling you. guided to it. Okay. Cool. So first before we get into Bessie's story a little bit about the park and who the Tuskegee Airmen were, the National Historic Site was founded on November 6, 1998. Within the historic site is Montfield, which was the only flying facility for African American pilot candidates in the United States Air Force during World War II. It was built between 1940 and 1942 and was a segregated base. Armed forces were segregated until 1948 and at the time of the Tuskegee Airmen, no African Americans had ever been allowed

to be military pilots. Wow. While slavery had been abolished, there were still many laws in place known as the Black Codes and Jim Crow laws that made segregation and restricting compensation benefits, taking away voting rights, child labor, and a lot more completely legal,

which made it very difficult. Even though slavery was abolished, it was by no means this free land for African. African American people. Of course, yeah. Yeah. And regarding flying, African Americans were said to not be intelligent or have the aptitude to be able to be capable of becoming pilots and they were thus barred from the job, although they had been allowed to participate in the war since the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, which now just I feel like everyone should be angry just listening to this because we're going to talk about a woman who wasn't allowed to do this because she was too

emotional and too crazy and couldn't handle stressful situations. And all African Americans and people of color were deemed too stupid to be able to navigate an airplanes, which I think is just infuriating just right off the bat. And also goes to show how much these people had to fight for just basic things, basic rights and to be able to do amazing things and be a pilot, be respected in the military. Well, I think it's just also infuriating that, like, my first initial thought is, okay, so they don't fit this criteria or meet these qualifications to become a pilot, but they can certainly enlist and risk their lives and give their lives for their country. You know what I mean? It's just like, oh, okay. So how does that make any sort of?

It's just, yeah, upsetting. And every time we discuss anything like this, I think we have the same conversation just in different ways. I don't want to get repetitive, but it is, you know, it does, like you said, lend to just how much they had to overcome and fight for just like the opportunity to become a pilot, which is something that I think today is just a no-brainer. It's like, yeah, anyone can become a pilot. Unless you can't see very well and then you're not allowed. Well, that's for everyone. Race and gender don't matter anymore. Yeah.

So after more than two decades of advocacy by civil rights leaders for African Americans who want. wanted to enlist as military aviators, a bill was passed on April 3, 1939 to designate funds for training African-American pilots. But training wasn't easy, and many people did not want this to happen in general. So they made the training for these specific pilots much more difficult than similar programs to kind of try and weed them out and make them not able to do it. But not only did that not stop the men from participating, but it gave them motivation to prove people trying to stop them wrong.

Airman Coleman Young told a journalist about the process saying, quote, They made standards so high we actually became an elite group. We were screened and super screened. We were unquestionably the brightest and most physically fit young blacks in the country. We were super better because of the irrational laws of Jim Crow. You can't bring that many intelligent young people together and train them as fighting men and expect them to subpoly roll over when you try to fuck them over. Right. Right.

Right, Coleman. Okay, so his name was Coleman Young, but we're also talking about Betty Coleman, but they're unrelated. Yeah. Okay. Unrelated, yeah. His first name's Coleman. Yeah. He's like, what did you expect? You took some of the most fit and intelligent men and you pushed them to their limits and you tried to break us, but actually you created one of the most elite groups of men that you could create. And they did. I mean, these men go down in history as some of the most elite pilots that of their time. Now the National Park Site preserves the flight training area of these pilots, who were later credited for these contributions to World War II. They flew fighter bomber aircrafts into combat zones. They conducted heavily strategic bombing raids, and they were deployed into war zones, and many lost their lives. In all 992 pilots were trained in Tuskegee from 1941 to 1946. 335 men were deployed overseas, and 84 of them lost their lives for this country, and 32 of them were captured as prisoners of war. While their contributions to history are immeasurable and the National Park now continues to interpret and preserve their historic duties, the park also helps to preserve the memory of not just important male pilots, but also the women who have made a lasting impact on aviation history.

Bessie Coleman was not part of World War II. She existed earlier in history. When you mention a female pilot, the name Amelia Earhart, is usually the first to come to people's minds. She was an extremely talented pilot who was the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic Ocean. She is also known to have disappeared after a flight attempt to circumnavigate the globe, and her remains have yet to be found. A lesser known name is Bessie Coleman. But Bessie, unknown to a lot of people, was active at the same time as Amelia.

She just faced different adversities. While in 1920, Amelia was hiring a flying instructor to teach her how to fly, the same year Bessie was taking classes in French because no one in the United States would teach her to fly. That same year, she flew to France to begin her schooling. The same air circuses that inspired Amelia Earhart to fly would be the same type of shows Bessie Coleman years later would perform in. Bessie Coleman would get her pilots license two years earlier than Amelia, but still, Bessie's name, is less known in history. I do you think, I mean, I feel like this is a stupid question, but because, of course, there's other things at play here. But I think a large reason that people know Amelia Earhart's name is because of her mysterious disappearance rather than her accomplishments in life. Do you know what I mean? I think they're overshadowed by the question marks surrounding her demise. So, and of course, there are other things at play, of course. but I just think that like, and I've heard like rumors that perhaps her aircraft has finally been

located, but that's very new and I don't know much about it. Have you heard that? Yeah, I've heard, I've heard kind of like tidbits of clues of them thinking they're on the right track or pieces have been found, but I don't know. I don't think she's ever been located. I don't think her aircraft has been located. I'm pretty sure someone officially thinks that they, they know where it is and they found it, But you could Google it and tell me I'm wrong. Because of course for years, you know, there's so many shows dedicated to like, could this be it? Could this finally be the one? But I think there's like someone did post an, there's an article.

So maybe I'm wrong. On January 31st, 2024, a South Carolina based exploration team believes they have found Amelia Earhart's long lost plane. Right. But like I don't know if it's confirmed. No, it looks like they have a sonar image of a plane rack that they believe to be hers, but it doesn't say that it's been confirmed yet. But that's exciting. Well, who knows? Maybe this year we'll have word.

But so still unconfirmed. But anyway, okay. Still unconfirmed. And not to take away from her story at all because she's obviously an amazing woman in history that has paved the path for a lot of women in aviation. But I just think it's interesting that Bessie Coleman has not been talked about as much. And even though Amelia Earhart's death is mysterious and it's been the topic of subject for generations now, Bessie Coleman died too. And her death was under mysterious circumstances as well. Oh, okay.

So that I'm meaning my words because I did not know that, which lends to the whole fucking point of why you're telling her story. So that's just great. Okay. Yeah, so let's get into her story. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little imperfect. Spring Treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Bessie Coleman was born in Atlanta, Texas on

January 26, 1892. Both her mother and father were of African American descent. However, her father was just one quarter African American and three quarters Chalktaugh and Cherokee nations. She was raised in Wachahatchee, Texas and poverty. It was a cotton farming region where the KKK was very prevalent and dangerous for people of color. She was born just 30 years after slavery was abolished and just 40 years after Congress had passed a legislation to move native people to reservations after the Indian Removal Act between 1830 and 1850. To be born both a black woman and partially an indigenous woman came with a lot of racism and hate which affected the way that she grew up. Being in Texas was especially difficult and eventually her father moved to Oklahoma, which was more accepting of his indigenous heritage and offered him more opportunities. When his wife Susan did not want to go, he left her, Bessie, and her 12 other siblings behind.

Holy, moly. Big family. Poor mom. Whenever I hear of moms, I got many kids. You poor thing. Those kids better take care of you for the rest of your life. I know. Wow.

That's a lot of kids. Yeah. Bessie was raised by a single mother during a period where the Jim Crow laws were still prevalent in the state. When Bessie was a child in many places, it was illegal. for black people to read, or it was very difficult to find someone who could teach them. Many of the adults had never been allowed to read and never learned, including Bessie's parents. Attending school and education was very limited, and Bessie mostly taught herself to read. And this part I thought was kind of fun because it ties into your last episode about the bookwoman

of Appalachia. In Texas, they had a similar program. They had a library wagon that would go to poor homes and bring books for children and adults to read. And each week they would come to Bessie's home and her and her siblings would choose a book. And often Bessie would actually read to her parents at night. The books she read taught her about life outside of Texas and gave her dreams of bigger opportunities. She finally saw something much larger than the cotton fields and this life that she had been taught existed. The books opened her world. Yeah, kind of just expanded her bubble a little bit,

brought her outside of it. Yeah. And for Bessie, her life was she wasn't going to school because it was not available to her. And her mother worked in the cotton fields and washed laundry for a living. So that is what Bessie did as well. And she was saving as much money as she could because she had dreams from these books that she was reading to get out of Texas and live a better life. So she saved as much money as she could. And when she turned 18, she left Texas to attend college in Oklahoma.

She enrolled at what was called at the time, the colored agricultural and normal university, which is now renamed Langston University and Langston, Oklahoma. And this was a segregated college for African Americans, but it was still very expensive to attend, just kind of like how college right now is expensive. Mm-hmm. So after just one semester, she dropped out because she couldn't afford tuition. She returned home to her mother for a bit, but she still longed for a better life with more opportunities. And some of her brothers had moved north to Chicago, which still,

experienced a lot of racism, but was a place that gave a lot more opportunities for people of color. The Jim Crow laws that were prevalent in the South were not practiced in the North. At 23 years old, she moved in with her brothers in Chicago, who were also serving in the military during World War I. When she arrived, she went to Burnham School of Beauty Culture in 1915, and she became a manicurist at a local barber shop called the White Sox Barbershop. And this shop was very well known. It was very popular in town and it was known to bring in the wealthier men of Chicago. So she was interacting with more of the wealthier black community that was in Chicago at the time. And she built a life there. You know, at this time was also when jazz and blues were on the rise. A lot of

entertainment was on the rise. There was a big nightlife there that she was allowed to be a part of. And she got a social life. She was making good money. She was living this life that was so much more than what she had in Texas and overall things were going really well. And things were changing for women in general too. Women were given the right to vote in 1920 and the conservative era for women was also ending. Women were gaining freedoms. They were wearing the clothes they wanted and they were having lives outside of being homemakers. And her life overall, it was significantly better than what she had in Texas, but it was still missing what she was looking. She was looking for something to do that was big in her life. She wanted to make an impact and she wanted to do bigger things. During her job as a manicurist and

with conversations with her brothers, she heard a lot about what was going on overseas in the war. Bessie specifically read a newspaper that focused on African American soldiers in the war, since other papers did not want to publish these stories. She would read this paper that was called the Chicago Defender. And with that newspaper, she closely followed the soldier divisions that were deployed to France. And she was inspired. She was inspired. She was in awe of their work and their sacrifice for the country, but mostly she was inspired by the story of the pilots. Specifically, she followed the stories of a man named Eugene Bullard, who was born in the United States but moved to France to become a combat pilot for the French in World War I. And he became one of their best pilots of the time.

Her brothers also had experience in France. Her brothers would often speak of France and how different it was there. How people of color were treated so much different, they had a lot more respect to them. there. They had stories of how much the women were more free there. And these conversations, particularly one conversation with her brother, would change her life. Her brother told her that women in France were more free, but not only that, women in France were being trained to become pilots, and they were actually flying airplanes. He then made a comment to her that she was just a simple shop girl, and that was her life. And that the women in France were doing big things. I,

I feel a watch me moment coming. Yeah. I think in that moment she's like, I'm not just a shop girl. And I think it was also a moment where she was like, I have my life is going well here. It's so much better than Texas. But I'm not just a shop girl. There's so much more that I can be. And when he said those, it like sparked something in her like this fight.

And she decided in that moment that she was going to fly planes. With that, she reached out to schools all over the country and applied to their aviation programs. But those dreams were quickly shot down in the United States. Each school rejected her because she was a woman and because she was a black woman. They told her that because she was a woman, she was just too emotional to fly. And she couldn't be trusted to make important decisions in the sky because her natural instinct would be to panic under pressure. I can't even respond to that. It's like, are you fucking kidding me?

Quick question. Are you fucking serious? Quick question. Are you fucking kidding me? But that's not only it because she was a woman, but she was also a black woman. So they told her that she also lacked the mental capacity to fly an airplane and she could never understand a complicated piece of machinery such as an airplane. Okay. Interesting. Very interesting. Coming from, I'm sure, a letter that never even met this person, first of all. and they're making these blanket statements because of someone's race and gender.

Yeah. Yeah. It's insane. And for her, she, I'm sure she was pissed. Like, I am totally capable of these things. Women are doing it in other places. And she didn't give up. You know, I think she was probably pretty upset because she went off looking for advice on what

she could do. And she reached out to Robert Abbott, who was the owner of the newspaper that she had been reading, the Chicago Defender. and he told her that if she was serious about becoming a pilot, she would have to leave the United States. He told her to get a higher-paying job so she could afford to take French lessons. And he told her if she wanted to fly, she would need to go to France and enroll in a school there, where women and black women were treated much better. And she listened.

She got a better paying job managing a chili parlor in Chicago, and she enrolled herself in night school to learn French. When she became proficient in the language, she wrote her entire application in her. French and was accepted at the Caldron's Brothers School of Aviation in Lee Cottroy, France. And this school was known as one of the best aviation schools in the entire world. Look at her go. Oh, Betty. Right off the bad. I'm so, like, happy for this story.

Okay. So far. I don't know where it's going. But right now I love it. On November 20th, 1920, Bessie boarded the largest ship in the world at the time, which was called the Imperator, Imperator, and sailed across the ocean. alone to pursue her dreams. When she arrived, she was the only woman and the only person of color in her class, but she was welcomed. She enrolled in a seven-month course where she was taught not only

how to fly, but also all about airplanes. She learned all about the physics of flight, the design of the aircrafts, and all about engines. She was even taught how to reconstruct her plane in the event that she crashed it and survived. And to put a little perspective on this, planes were much different in the 1920s. In the 1920s, they were mainly made up of wood and fabric materials. So you could literally just like grab things and reconstruct them. They weren't these crazy machines that they are today. And I say that you could just grab them and reconstruct them, but obviously it would acquire, it would require a lot of skill to do that. Mm-hmm. Of course. She learned to fly on a French Newport 82, which were common for failures and crashes. Flying was still in the very early

stages and it was not what it is today. But from her very first time up in the air flying, she knew that this was exactly what she wanted to do. It was this freedom that she felt that she had never been able to feel before, especially with her life in the United States. And she was instantly a natural. Her instructors were impressed by her from the very start, and she was deemed one of the best pilots in the class. On June 15th, 1921, she received her international pilots license from the Federation aeronautique national. It's in French, so I apologize for picturing that. But she was the first black person in the world to receive the international pilots license.

And after gaining her license, she went to Paris, France, to train with veteran pilots and to learn more about airplanes. So she worked directly with people who were in the war. Later that year in September, she went back to the United States with dreams to pursue her career as a pilot and to open her own flight school that would accept people of color and of any gender. Unbeknownst to her, the Chicago defender had been reporting on all her accomplishments abroad, and she had served as an inspiration for her community in Chicago. When the boat she was on landed in New York City, she was greeted by a mass of people who had been very excited for her

return. Shortly after her return, though, she was reminded of the difficulties of being a black woman in America when no one would sell her a plane or hire her. Her dreams of operating a flight school were halted when no one would do business with her. None of her accomplishments or notoriety mattered in the United States. One reporter even recommended to her that she undergo cosmetic changes to try to pass as a white woman with skin bleaching and hair straightening. Oh, my God. Another quick question.

And this was kind of popular. Yeah. Are you fucking kidding me? Quick question. Are you fucking serious? Well, at this time, too, in the 1920s, there were actually a lot of cosmetic, um, what, procedures and like measures? Not procedures, but cosmetic tools to try to make yourself become lighter skinned.

And that was actually a thing that was going on and was being marketed for women of color to try. I mean, skin bleaching, straightening your hair, dyeing your hair with lighter colors, just things to come off as white passing were very prevalent at the time. So this reporter was just like, hey, why don't you do this? And Bessie was very proud of her heritage and her. race and she wanted nothing to do with that. She was infuriated by the suggestion and flat out refused. Good for her. And I mean like right now sitting here, we can be like, yeah, fuck that. But back then when your opportunities are so significantly so much, how am I trying to say this, back then when your opportunities are so significantly boxed in, there, I'm sure the temptation

was there for a lot. It was probably popular because it was the only option to do certain things for certain people. So for her to be so adamant in her stance of no is even more admirable because of that. Like who knows what we would have done or said or, you know, like if we were in that position. And when they're only extending opportunities to people who conform into this, you know, this type of way of being or appearing, it's hard. But I think. that like her experience overseas where she's like why why would I conform to this here when I'm accepted over here and women don't have to be jumping through these hoops to do the same exact thing in other places like it can be done and it should be done so I'm not going to do this

here so I think like that perspective change I think that's why just like as an extension and total sidebar that travel is so important obviously she traveled under circumstances that aren't just like leisure. She did it out of necessity. But travel is just such a way to expand your worldview and to see what else is going on around the world and to kind of navigate through your own world when you're back at home. I think it brings a lot of perspective. So travel's important. Absolutely. Travel changes everything. When you know other cultures and you've seen other ways of living, it just, it opens, it broadens your horizon so much. And I think also kind of going back to Bessie and her choice to not conform to these beauty standards that were being put on her can be something

that we can all resonate with right now too, because especially as women, there's always beauty standards that are being pushed on because I will, I didn't put this really in my notes either because I didn't want to focus on her looks as she was known to be a really beautiful woman, but she's so much more than that. But she was known to be very beautiful that she had a lot of people that were interested in her, including like a prince in Africa, was trying to be with her. And she had, like, a lot of suitors that were coming after her because not only was she known to be extremely beautiful, but she was also extremely pleasant to be around. And she was just a very strong woman that people gravitated towards. And I didn't want to focus on her looks too much in this just because I think that

she's so much more. And I hate just, like, putting women in a box of being, like, pretty when there's so many other things, but I think it's important to note. She also was a very, very beautiful woman. So she said no to this, and instead she got more creative with her ideas on how she could become a pilot in the United States. At the time, a popular method of aviation were people who owned their own planes, would put on shows at fairs and offer people rides in their planes for money. And then they would also do tricks in their airplanes that people could watch and pay for.

Now, this was an air circus where pilots flew. incredible stunts, they would fly upside down in the air, they would do dives, and like a bunch of more stuff. I mean, we've all probably seen an air show at some point in our lives, and it was becoming really popular. Bessie decided that if she had hopes of pursuing a career in the United States, she would want to be able to work for herself, and she would want to be able to choose how she flew, and she wanted to pursue stunt flying. So in May of 1922, she went back to France to learn how to become a stunt pilot. And it wasn't just French she went to this time. This time she traveled around Europe. She went to Germany and she trained in advanced aeronautical training. She trained

with World War I pilots in the Netherlands and trained with a stuntman. She flew in Italy and England. In Germany, she flew a 200 horsepower plane that was at the time the largest flown plane by a woman. She test pilot a prototype for a commercial plane, one of the first in the world, that weighed 52 tons and needed 6,000 horsepower to be airborne. So she was doing these incredible things and flying these planes that no one else had even attempted to fly before. And not only was she doing that, but she was also learning to do incredible stunts in an aircraft in the process.

And not only was she learning how to do stunts, on top of the stunts, she also became a skydiver and became an expert parachutist. Just add it to the resume. Just add it. She's like, okay, you won't take me as a pilot. Let me just add all of these things that no one else can. do. And it made headlines around Europe and all the famous pilots she trained and flew with were singing her praises very publicly. And she, it was one of her favorite parts about doing it is she saw

everyone coming to her side and talking to these news anchors, news reporters, whatever, and saying just what a wonderful pilot in person that she was. And she became this household name in Europe and was named one of the best pilots, probably in the world, armed with more experience and recommendations from world-class pilots and recognition she had received at this point, she went back to the United States with new hopes of starting her career. This time she had more support and Robert Abbott, the man who owned the Chicago Defender, who was very wealthy, set her up with her own office in New York City, and Bessie set out to start her barnstorming business, and barnstorming is what is referring to aeronautical stunts and performances. She began setting up a tour

around the country to show off her flying skills to inspire other African Americans who maybe wanted to be pilots. Her first show was at Glen Curtis Field in Long Island and she would fly a Curtis JN4 that was donated for the show by the Curtis Show and Car Automobile Company. However, starting off the bat, it wasn't easy for her. She was only allowed to fly the plane that was donated for her if she was accompanied by another person for a test flight first. They wanted proof that she could actually fly despite all her accreditations and all of the news reports that she's one of the best in the world. And despite this outright disrespect and insult to her, she took him up and showed off her skills by flipping and turning and diving him. And by the time they were done with the

flight, the guy was like, she can fly. Please get me out of this plane. You like get me off this plane. She's fine. She can fly. So she gets given the plane. And her first flight was during a ceremony to commemorate African Americans who fought in World War I. And it was her first successful show to a string of a bunch of other people. Her next show brought in upwards of 10,000 people to watch her doing stunts like loop the loops, figure eights in the sky, barrel rolls, and she would even walk out onto the wings of the plane mid-flight. People stood on the ground in awe of all of her skills. She began touring around the north in the beginning, even performing at a show. at what is now Indiana Dunes National Park.

She made it a point to recognize African American military units during patriotic fairs and performances, and she quickly was becoming famous within the United States. Her skills were known by everyone, no matter what race or gender those people were. Her incredible skills in the sky and with planes, her stunts, and her parachuting from thousands of feet in the air drew in media attention around the country. While she was a huge success in the northern states, Bessie had dreams of performing in the South. At the time, the majority of African Americans were living in the South and under the Jim Crow laws. She thought that it was imperative that she fly there to give the people in the South hope and to prove herself there as well.

And she was met with resistance from her manager at the time who had been helping her book all of these events because he worried for her own safety there. And she was really insistent and she really wanted to perform there, which he was not okay with backing because he was so concerned of her safety. So he was just like, you know, I support your decision. I don't want to be a part of it because if something happens to you, I don't want that to fall on me. And they left working together in good graces. But he was just so concerned for her safety, he didn't want to be a part of it and thought it was a bad idea. Okay.

Part of why he thought it was a bad idea was because she was so outspoken against racial inequality. and against segregation. And in the South, it was so prevalent. He thought that she was going to be met with a lot of resistance and probably violence. And part of this was because a lot of the places in the South, African Americans were probably not going to be welcome to attend. And she quickly made it known that she would not perform at any venue or fair. If not only were African Americans not allowed to attend,

but also segregation could not be in place at these events. Before she would begin her tour in the South Flying, she was giving lectures and churches and schools around the South. She would show videos of herself flying and spread hope in the fight in the African-American communities to not give up and to fight for their life to live a fulfilling life. She would tell them, if I can do it, you can do it. Despite Bessie's success, she was facing a lot of struggles. Private airplane companies were still refusing to sell planes or rent them to Bessie to use.

She eventually was able to buy one after getting a sponsorship from a tire company she was hired by to drop advertisements from the planes into crowds about the company. However, she was paid significantly less than other pilots. She saved up her money and was eventually able to buy an older used plane from a government agency for $400. And from that same agency, she was able to put a down payment on two other of their planes. But she couldn't buy them. She couldn't afford them yet.

And about what year was this now that we're up to? Like the 40s? Did you say the 40s? Oh, no. We're in the 20s. This is like 1922. Oh, okay. You just, she's done so much in such a shift.

Yeah, she's done so much in a short amount of time. It might be 1923 by now. Because you said she went to France in like 1915. She went to France in 1921. What? Hold on a minute. Really? Yeah.

So she went to France in 1921. I have to look back on all my dates. Okay. So she moved. I think she moved to Chicago in 1915. Uh, or no. because she moved to Chicago 1921 voting was passed. And then 1922.

So it's probably 1923 and 1924 now. Wow. Okay. Well, she's just done so much. It hasn't been that long. Yeah. All right. So she buys this plane for $400, but it's an outdated, used plane.

And she had flown much better planes in France, but it was the only plane that she was able to buy herself that she could afford. After she bought that plane, she secured a show in Los Angeles, California, where 10,000 people were expected to attend and watch her perform. She was really excited for the show and she took off with her new plane that she had just bought to fly to California. And to note, she had spent every last penny that she had on this plane and the down payments for the other two. However, three minutes after she took off from Los Angeles, her engine suddenly stalled at 300 feet above the ground. The plane took a nose dive and plummeted into the earth. Bessie was found after the crash,

unconscious and was rushed to the hospital. In the hospital, she was in and out of consciousness. In the crash, she had shattered her leg, had multiple broken ribs, internal bleeding, and severe facial wounds. Her plane was also totaled in the crash. Despite her injuries, she pleaded with doctors to fix her as quickly as they could because she had a show to put on in Los Angeles, but for her, no shows were going to be happening soon because she was very injured. She would spend the next three months in the hospital and endured extensive rehab after that for nine months. Wow. And this is a plane she just bought. Yeah. It's probably such a blow. Like, I mean, obviously, she really wanted to go to that show and get back on the horse. But nine months in the hospital,

like, that's not a walk in the park as far as the extent of your injuries. And that plane going down, oh, God, all your money. All of your money gone. All your money gone. You're broke. now everything that you had planned to do to make money for that plane to do the performances and stuff is now out the window, you're in a hospital, you're really injured. And she goes through it for a while, but as soon as she was healed, she was up and flying again. Her next show she performed was in Houston, Texas, and marked the very beginning of her southern tour. The show was sponsored by a group of black promoters who were not able to afford to pay white pilots and had hope that if Bessie had come, that it would draw in an interracial group. And they were right,

it did. A racially mixed crowd of over 15,000 people showed up on June 19th, which was the anniversary of when African Americans gained their freedom in Texas and has been celebrated ever since as Juneteenth, which we still celebrate now. The show was a huge success, despite the Texas had the worst Jim Crow laws in the South, and African Americans were being treated so poorly there that they were leaving by the thousands. Still, Bessie was able to bring a non-segregated group of thousands to the show because she would not perform there if it were segregated. It was so successful that she booked several more shows around Texas. She even performed in her old town of Wachahatchahe, Texas. I bet that was such a moment for her. Like that particular show,

it's just like a full circle event moment in life. Like I'm back. Look what I've accomplished. Look what I'm doing here now when I wasn't even really allowed to read here. Yeah. Despite all the success, though, and her very successful shows where thousands of people were showing up, she was still struggling to find planes that people would allow her to fly. The majority of people who own planes in the South were white, and they refused to let Bessie buy or rent any plane from her. Each show, she would have to try to find someone willing to let her use the plane.

And often, when they did agree to it, the planes were. much older. They were generally not great planes. They were unkept and the maintenance on them was subpar at best. And this was all during a time that flying was more dangerous in general. People were learning better ways to fly, but crashes were very frequent and deaths at this time in crashes were pretty frequent. And Bessie's aircrafts were often more dangerous than others because they lacked any of the new technology and they lacked the maintenance that they needed. Although, of course, she did her best. She knew a lot about planes too, but still she was kind of given an unfair hand here, especially granted her experience and expertise.

And like I said before, planes were held together by fabrics and wood. A lot of them, the older planes that she was getting, they didn't have roofs on them. Some of them didn't have seatbelts. The engines were old. It was just, it was a disaster. Bessie was asked to do a memorial flight over the Charles River in Boston, Massachusetts, in honor of Harriet Quimby. Harriet Quimby was the first woman in the United States to receive a pilot's license and

was the first woman to fly across the English Channel. She died in a flying accident during an aviation event in Boston, and Bessie was asked to perform at her memorial. And this was a pretty big deal at the time because white pilots did not acknowledge or associate with Bessie. But Bessie was aware of this woman's accomplishments and found her to be very inspiring and also resonated with her plight to be a woman pilot, and she agreed without question. In another instance, Bessie was asked to perform for the Chamber of Climbled.

commerce in Orlando, Florida, which also marked a big deal in history because Florida at the time was not only practicing segregation, but encouraged violence against people of color. The KKK was highly active in the area, and when they discovered that she was going to be performing, they were very upset. So she's entering a place where it's very dangerous for her. I mean, in this time in Florida, they actually had put curfews on people of color that wasn't enforced by the government, they actually allowed citizens to go out with batons and attack any person of color they saw after a certain time of day. The day of the show, Bessie discovered that people of color would not be allowed to attend

the show. And she flat out refused to perform. She got there and was like, I didn't know that this was happening and I'm not doing it. Florida then agreed to allow everyone to go, but it would be a segregated event where people of color would not be allowed to enter through the main entrance. And Bessie insisted that one, they had to be allowed through the main entrance. And if they weren't going to give up the segregation part of it, she insisted that there would at least be flyers that would be dropped from airplanes, letting the African-American people

know that they were welcome to be at her show. Okay. So she was, yeah. So she's like, this is, I'm not settling for less than that. Yeah. She's like, I'm already here. But you let every single person know. that they are welcome and this is not my my doing.

Surprising, even though many people in the Chamber of Commerce thought that she was out of line to be even requesting these things, they agreed. They were like, okay, you can have your way and please just perform for us. Bessie's next show was in Jacksonville, Florida and helping to make sure everything went well and without the problems that happened in Orlando was a manager named John T. Betch. He was a person of color who had the same priorities as Bessie to advocate for African Americans. This show would be a performance for what was called at the time, the Negro Welfare League, which focused on African Americans' rights and education. Again, Bessie faced the issue of finding a plane because she was in Florida, no one would allow her to fly their planes.

However, she was able to get one through a man named Edwin Beeman, who was the owner of a chewing gum company who was paying Bessie to fly his advertisement. in the air. Like I had mentioned earlier, Bessie had put down a down payment on a plane prior to these events when she was in Texas because she couldn't afford it. And Edwin paid off the remainder of one of those planes, so she was able to fly the plane that she owned. And he also paid a pilot who was also a mechanic to fly it from Texas to Florida for her. And his name was Bill Wills. The plane that Bessie had put a down payment on was for a Jenny with an OX-5 engine capable of 90. horsepower. When the pilot arrived in Jacksonville with the plane, it was immediately obvious that this was not the plane she had originally put a down payment on. This plane was the same type of

plane, but it was so worn and poorly maintained that it could barely develop 60 horsepower. With no other options, though, it was decided that she would have to fly this one. So did someone try and pull one over on her, like by giving her a shittier plane? It sounds like it, especially she bought it in Texas. It sounds like she put a deposit. it down on a plane. She's like, I want that one. It sounds like they probably sold that one. It was like, oh, here, you can have this piece of shit instead. And probably thought she wouldn't notice because she's a woman. But obviously, I mean, we know that she's an expert. Yeah. We know that she's an expert in her field. She knows all about planes. She notices it as soon as it's there,

that it's not her plane. But there's nothing else she can do. She wants to fly the show. And she's like, okay, we're just going to do this. It was April 30th, 1926 at 715 in the more. morning when Bessie, mechanic Bill Wills, and her manager, John Betch, arrived at the Paxon Airfield where she would be performing. They arrived a day early because Bessie wanted to scout out an area for her to perform a parachute jump before the actual show. They planned for Bill to fly the plane while Bessie sat in the rear cockpit seat to look for her landing area. The flight began smoothly. They took off and accelerated over 2,000 feet into the air. They flew above the fairgrounds below and Bessie unbuckled her seat to stand up for a better view.

As she was peering down, the plane suddenly jerked and flipped upside down before turning into a nose dive towards the ground. Bessie unbuckled in standing was thrown from the plane around 2,000 feet in the air and she died on impact. Oh, because she didn't, okay, this was a scouting thing for her parachute. Yeah, this was just a test flight. Okay, so she didn't have her shoot on. Oh, God. Okay. What happens next varies from witness accounts.

Some witnesses say that the pilot was not able to regain control of the plane, while other witnesses stated that he did and was able to level out the plane. However, it was too late and he crashed into a tree. Police were on the scene quickly, and both them and John Beshe rushed to the plane site. While the police attempted to pull Will's body from the plane, John stood by watching. In what he later states was an attempt to calm his nerves, he flicked a match to light a cigarette. The match caused the gasoline and jet fuel in the air to erupt into flames,

engulfing the plane and barely leaving time for the first responders to escape. John was arrested on site, but later after speaking with him, he was released that night. And Bill died in the crash. And we don't know if he died. It was unclear if he died in the crash or if he died in the fire after. Oh, my God. Wow. What at first looks like a tragic accident,

because accidents in these types of plane were common, soon drew in speculation, especially amongst the black communities. They believe that this wasn't an accident at all, but an intentional murder of a black woman for her rising stardom and her unyielding attitude towards racism and segregation. Some speculated that Bill Wills had taken a part in her murder and that he would have survived, but he didn't regain control of the plane fast enough before he hit a tree. Not only was her speculation in her death, but a friend had warned Bessie about Bill Wills before their flight together. Robert Abbott, that friend who was from the Chicago Defender, was in Florida at the time and had seen them the day before. He told Bessie not to fly with Bill because he had a really bad feeling

about him. Oh, oh, shit. Bessie had laughed it off and told him he was overreacting and that everything would be fine. But he didn't feel that way. There was something about this guy from Texas flying her in a plane that he felt very uncomfortable with. When the wreckage was finally able to be examined, they found a wrench that was jammed into the control gears. This could explain the erratic behavior of the plane in the air, but it also sparked confusion because if it had been there previously, they wouldn't have been able to take off. Through investigations, they also discovered that Bill Wills was actually not able to make a direct flight from Texas to Florida. The plane had actually required repairs twice along the way, and

he had to make a stop in Meridian, Mississippi and Farmington, Mississippi. They theorized that it was possible that during these stops a mechanic could have carelessly left a wrench behind that eventually was wrestled around in the flying and became jammed in the control gears. But this explanation sparked some questions as well. And some speculated that the wrench was placed there only after the wreckage and some questioned whether it existed at all. And they questioned this because the public was informed of a wrench and was told that this was

why the crash happened, but no one ever presented any evidence that the wrench actually existed. There were no photos taken of it, and there was no wrench that was presented as proof that it happened, and there's no history that shows that this ever happened. You know, usually at a crash site, you would take a photo of what you see, or you would take aftermath photos, or maybe you would present. This was what was stuck here, especially because this sparked so much speculation and outrage for people, but that was never provided. So you're saying that someone or some group of people planted the wrench story to the public to kind of just accept at face value.

To hide the fact that it was a murder. A murder. It's what a lot of people think. They think that Bill Wills was in on it. He was supposed to survive the crash and claim a malfunction of the plane. And then when it exploded, the people who recovered the plane put a wrench in the gears and said, oh, this is why this would explain what happened. But then people were like, if that was there, they never could have taken off. So how did it get there? Very interesting. But another thing that

was apparent was that if Bessie had been treated like other pilots or given the respect that she deserved for her flying capabilities, she would have never been flying a shitty plane like that. The accident would have likely never happened because she would have been in a updated plane because newer planes had safety systems and coverings in place that would have made it nearly impossible for a stray wrench that was left behind to get caught in the engine. So they said even if someone didn't plant this wrench, because of the way you treated her directly led to her death. But still there's a lot of people who speculate that it was some type of plot because she

was gaining so much recognition and she was kind of creating, she was kind of taking this barrier down between racism and being like, no, we all have to get along together. We're all capable. Let's recognize this. And so a lot of people think that that was motivation for her murder. I mean, it makes 100% sense. Like, if someone presented this as fact, like this actually happened, I would have no trouble believing it, unfortunately.

Like, it does fit the time, the attitude, the just like what was going on at this point in history. I would totally accept this as something that unfortunately happened. And honestly, I kind of lean more towards that versus it being. just a pure accident, which of course is also a fair explanation given the condition of the plane and it being kind of like, you know, like you said, a shittier plane to begin with and having its own set of problems, wrench or no wrench, you know what I mean? And of course, I mean, maybe there is also the explanation of just like something happened and the pilot couldn't, I mean, pilots crash all the

time and it's not anything to do with a murder plot or a wrench in the engine just like things happen and accidents happen. So there's also that to consider, but it just seems improbable compared to the other larger, more in your face explanation. Yeah. And I think an accident is certainly possible when I look at it, same thing as you. But I also think about the climate and the environment that she was in. Florida at the time, as I mentioned before, it was highly segregated, there was violence encouraged towards people of color, and the KKK was very prevalent in the region that she was in. So to think that it's possible that there was a cover-up, I think isn't out of line at all. Especially, isn't there, I mean, I don't want to get too deep into it

because I know very minimal information about it. But even right now, like, wasn't that whistleblower for the Boeing case just found dead mysteriously, like, as he was about to be a key witness? Yeah, I don't I know very little about it. It's a come on. Like, are we all going to accept that he just completed suicide right as he was about to be a key witness in this big whistleblowing, like, type of thing? You know, like, are we supposed to just accept that when there's another explanation that is just so apparent? Obvious. Right.

Like, I feel like it's kind of similar to that. It's like, yeah, maybe that is plausible, but it's not. Yeah. It's like Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. Right. Right. Right. We all believe that. Yeah. So basically, there's a lot of, there's sides to it and there's no confirmed whether it was murder or not, but people are suspicious of it. And going back to her story, continuing on, the fare that she was supposed to perform at was canceled. Obviously, she, no one was coming to that after. And instead, over 5,000 people went to the Pratt funeral home where Bessie's remains were and paid their respects. When Bessie's body was recovered, they found a note in her pocket from a story. student at a school she had visited the day before, and it read,

My dear one, I am writing to you to congratulate you on your brave doings. I want to be an aviator when I become a woman. I like to see our own race do great things. I'm going to be out there to see you jump from that airplane. I want an airplane of my own when I become a woman. Many kisses, yours, a little girl, Ruby Mae McDuffie. Following that, a funeral was held at the Bethel Baptist Institutional Church in Jacksonville. 2,000 mourners filled the church, while another 3,000 stood outside and followed the procession to transport her body via the train station to be sent back to Chicago, which would eventually be her final resting place.

There were over 5,000 people waiting at the train station for her. Then waiting in Chicago, hundreds more awaited her arrival. Also waiting there was a military escort from the 8th Infantry Regiment, a regiment of black soldiers that Bessie had flown for to commemorate their services before. They escorted her to a funeral home in the south side of Chicago, an estimated 10,000 people arrived to pay tribute to Bessie that evening and the following day. At her funeral, men from the 8th Infantry Regiment carried her casket into church where over 1,500 people sat down to mourn her. Outside the church were 4,000 more people mourning her death and honoring her life. The following day, she was buried in Chicago's Lincoln Cemetery. This cemetery was specifically known to only carry African American people.

newspapers owned and operated by the black communities across the country covered Bessie's story and her untimely death, while other newspapers barely touched on her death, but instead wrote of the death of Bill flying the plane. Some newspapers even wrote that he was giving her a flying lesson when they died, which we obviously know not to be true because she's one of the best pilots in the world. She didn't need a flying lesson from this pilot mechanic. Guy. Yeah. And in some newspapers where they actually did recognize that she could,

could fly and that she died in this crash. They didn't call her by her name. Instead, they called her, quote, that woman over and over again. How disrespectful. She's the star of the show. Yeah. Like, she's the reason everyone was there. She was literally the star of the show. Yeah. The fucking audacity, honestly. Even after death, like, just the distrosite, blatant disrespect there. And her death rocked the black communities around the country. But she was also loved by a lot of other people and within other races. And she was very well known for her performances. So her death was just felt across the country for those who knew her and loved her despite their race. Her advocacy against racism was something that was inspiring and for her lifetime was less heard of.

While there was an obvious fight that had happened to abolish slavery, there was still a lot of work to do and her advocacy came before a lot of other revolutions. And to put this into perspective of her time, Martin Luther King Jr. had not been born yet. Rosa Parks, who was famously known during the Civil Rights Movement to refuse to give up her bus seat to a white man, did not do that until 29 years after Bessie's death. It would be another 38 years after her death before the Civil Rights Act, a law that prohibited discrimination and eliminated segregation was signed. So just to put, she was a woman before her time. There was already a fight to abolish slavery, but she was like a frontrunner and being like, okay, we abolish slavery, but let's actually.

recognize that we're all people here and that segregation is wrong and racism is wrong. Captain John Charles Robinson, an African American pilot, who has gone down in history as father of the Tuskegee Airmen for inspiring its creation, took inspiration from Bessie directly. He was so inspired by her work and her life that he started an annual flyover of her grave in Chicago on every Memorial Day to drop flowers to her. Her life is a direct reflection of the creation of the Tuskegee Airmen, and she's honored within that national park today. She was also the inspiration behind the Bessie Coleman Aero Club, an aviation school in Los Angeles for African Americans. In 1931, the Bessie Coleman Arrow Club hosted the very first all African American air show in the United States, and in attendance was 15,000 people. Today, Bessie Coleman is honored in various ways around the country at Chicago O'Hare's airport, a road is named in her honor, Bessie Coleman Drive.

In the city of Chicago, May 2nd has been deemed Bessie Coleman Day in her honor. On March 27, 1993, the Bessie Coleman Library was also opened in Chicago. And in 2004, the Bessie Coleman Park was opened in Chicago as well. In 2001, a memorial plaque was erected in Wachahatchie in her honor in Texas. In 2005, in Cedar Hill, Texas, the Bessie Coleman Middle School was opened in her remembrance. In 2014 on February 14th, the Oakland International Airport in California renamed a portion of their airport drive to Bessie Coleman Drive. Mae Jamison, the first African-American astronaut in the world, was so inspired by Bessie's

accomplishments that she carried a picture of Bessie with her when she flew into outer space. Wow. And that is my story of Bessie Coleman. Wow. What a good job covering that. Like I said in the beginning, I knew part of her story, but not nearly. as in depth as you went. And I knew that she, I knew the way that she died, but I didn't know any of the controversy around it. Like, I have always just heard that she died in an aviation accident.

And that was kind of the end of it. But there's so much more there. And it really adds to her story as a whole. Like, I think that it's really important to have included that. So good job not listening to anything else. Don't be influenced by anything else. Not like putting down any other information because everything that I've heard about her was amazing. But I just got a different perspective from you. And I think that that was awesome. Good job. Thank you. And it's interesting that you say that too because when I was looking at resources, some resources mention that there's some controversy around her death and others don't say anything about it. So it's still, it's interesting that that's not even mentioned. Whether you think it's true or not, I think that it's important to mention to present all the facts. Of course. Yeah. Like, I think it would be

if you didn't know that information, like if you're just looking at certain sources that just never mention it, like, how would you know what I mean? Yeah, because the crash makes sense. The time, the plane she was in, it makes sense. But to not know the other thoughts behind that and the outrage, there was an outrage about it too that people said, you killed this woman because she was becoming someone and you didn't like that. Well, she was making waves. Like you said, she was very clearly making waves and garnering a lot of attention and making people think. Like, you know, obviously she's not the first person to have this thought, but she was one of the first that had this public platform that was able to do something about it. And I could see why people who were opposed to that wanted to cut that

off and cut that down and just shut that, shut that down. You know, and unfortunately, killing her was a way to do that. So I could very easily see how that could have been the reasoning behind all that. So yeah, well. And to see all of the things popping up, you know, around the country in her honor from the National Park to schools and libraries and roads and airports. In recent years, too. I mean, 2014, you know, like it's still, people are really starting to recognize her many years after her life. I mean, even when we're talking about the ones that were directed in 1994 and things like that. I mean, she was in the 20s, so that's still significantly long after she died. It's a big accomplishment. Yeah. And her story shouldn't be forgotten. I mean, she's so important in the world of

aviation and the world of women in aviation. And her story should be told and remembered and honored. And so it's exciting to see that those things are happening. Yeah. Cool. Well, I'm glad now that when I think of women in aviation, I can think of both Bessie Coleman and Amelia Earhart hand in hand instead of, you know, like, oh, I know Amelia's story so well and I think I know something about somebody else, but I'm not sure. Like, now that story has changed. So they go hand in hand together. Yeah. So thank you for bringing her story to everyone. Of course. Well, on that note, I guess we'll leave you all with Bessie's story and we'll see you next time. Enjoy the view. But watch your back. Bye everyone. Bye.

Thank you so much for joining us again this week. If you have a trail or story suggestion, Send us an email at Stories at NPAD Podcast.com. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at National Park After Dark and on Twitter at NPAD Podcast. Join our Outsiders-only community on Patreon or Apple subscriptions to listen ad-free, unlock monthly bonus episodes, and exclusive content. And remember, when you support our sponsors, you are supporting our show. For our exclusive discount codes and source information from today's episode, check out the show notes. For more information on our show, our book recommendations, merch updates, and more, visit our website at npaddpodcast.com.

And please rate, review, and subscribe from wherever you listen to podcasts. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you may not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressives save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back.

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.