National Park After Dark - Shifting Sands: Big Bend National Park

Episode Date: July 12, 2021

This week we take a journey through twists and turns to el despoblado – “the uninhabited land.” Big Bend National Park is a place on the far reaches of civilization that stands impartial as the troubles and toils of existence play out. Most of the beings here are in a fight for their lives, struggling every single day just to ensure they see another. But what if that wasn’t the case? What if, despite all efforts, all wants and desires, you wanted to die ... but couldn’t?For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Deep in the Chihuahuan Desert, amongst the Chisos Mountains, around the bends of the Rio Grande, and past the Santa Elena Canyon, amongst the Yucca plants, roadrunners, and rattlesnakes, you will come to El Despo Blotto, the uninhabited land. Desert hollies splash the browns and reds of the landscape with their pink and white flowers. Tarantulas scurry underfoot, and in the distance, coyotes yip and bark under the sweltering sun. This land, on the far reaches of civilization, cradles life and death equally. It stands impartial as the troubles and toils of existence plays out, sunrise to moonrise, over and over again. Most of the beings here, in Big Ben National Park, are in a fight for their lives, struggling every single day just to ensure they see another.

But what if that wasn't the case? What if, despite all efforts, all wants and desires, you wanted to die, but couldn't? Welcome to National Park After Dark. Hey, everybody, welcome back to National Park After Dark. My name's Cassie, and my name's Danielle. Happy Monday, brand new week. Let's get it started with some sad news. From last week, we realized it happened the day we posted.

our treasure hunt episode last week. If you listened at the very end of the episode, we talked about a real life treasure hunt that was going on in Utah and how you could participate in it as well. The very same day that we posted the episode, the treasure was found. And we were hesitant to even mention it because we both were like, oh, what if they find it as soon as we post the episode? And of course, it happened. So just to let you all know that treasure hunt isn't there. Do you know who found it? Did you read the post? They posted something about who found it, but I was too devastated.

It's too soon. It's too fresh. Well, other than that, merch, we have currently posted on our website, N-PADPodcast.com. You have a couple more weeks to snag something if you'd like. We're only having it up until the end of July. I got a wine tumbler. You did? Yeah, I thought it was so cute. I had to get it. You ordered one? Yeah. I think I want a camping mug. You should get a camping mug. Yeah. I like the camping mugs. And the wine tumbler, I was like, I have to get this. This is so cute. So now I'm going to use it when we're recording our episodes. So yeah, if you want merch, go ahead and go over to our website. You can also access it through our Instagram, National Park After Dark. You have until the end of July to do so. Before we get started, Patreon.

if you're interested, if you've caught up on all of our episodes, we've been getting a lot of messages lately are like, oh, we just finished all the episodes. We're all caught up. Like, we can't wait till next week. Well, if you haven't subscribed to our Patreon, we have four additional stories on there right now. So if you have caught up and you need some more to listen to, go on Patreon. You can listen to them on either tier that we have offered up there. Well, I'm excited for this week's episode because if you all haven't caught on yet, Danielle is very good at, keeping a secret of what her story is going to be, where I am not. I'm immediately texting Danielle every idea before we even get started. And Danielle's actually really good at hiding them from me. So I am going into this just as blind as you all are. I did my best just because I've learned over the last six months or five months, however long we've been doing this, that I like watching your reactions when you know little to nothing about the story. This week. Grabbing my face. Grabbing your face, mouth open.

She will slowly start leaning back away from the microphone in horror. So anyways, today, as the intro alluded, we are headed to Texas to Big Bend National Park. Oh, we have not gone to Big Bend yet. Before we get started, information for the episode was gathered from three different places. First, I recommend this show to anyone who wants to know more about this episode. There is a show called Pandora's Box. It's older. It's a few years older. I kind of had to dig to find this. And there's an episode on this particular story called Death Wish. There's also a very long and detailed article written by Rachel Monroe for Medium.com. And finally, of course, my book,

in my collection. So not my book. I didn't write it. But I have a book in my death in collection called Death in Big Bend. And there's a chapter on this particular story. Another thing, this episode is pretty graphic and you should listen at your own risk as always. So if you're ready to take the risk, let's go to Texas. I think half the people listening are like, no. And the other half of people are like, tell me more. What kind of? What kind of? What kind of Kind of graphic. Well, if anybody out there is diehard, my favorite murder fans, there's a quote that Georgia says, and she says, this is terrible, keep going.

I actually have it as a sticker on my laptop. And that's my kind of people like, oh, my God, this is terrible, but I want to know more. If you haven't caught on by now, everything is pretty much terrible. But if you want to know more, here we go. Located in West Texas, Big Bend National Park is the largest protected area of the Chihuahuan Desert. Originally established as Texas Canyon State Park in 1933, it wasn't until 1944 when it was open to the public as Big Bend National Park. It is one of the nation's least visited and most remote parks. To put that into perspective, Yosemite, for example, I picked that one because I know it's close to your heart.

They saw nearly four and a half million visitors in the year 2019. In comparison, Big Bend had that same year, 466,000. Wow. Don't let those numbers deter you, though, because Big Bend has a lot to offer. It encompasses an area of over 800,000 acres and is the only U.S. park to contain an entire mountain range, which are the Chisos Mountains. This park is rich in history, both geologically and archaeologically speaking. And if you're a paleontology nerd like me, this park has an exhibit dedicated to the remains of dinosaurs found within its boundaries. To date, over 1,200 fossil species have been found within the park that span over 130 million years.

This park has gone through a lot of changes. It was once an ancient sea, which then gave way to a swampy coastal environment. As time went on, the coastline moved further to the east, which left Big Bend an ideal space for huge dinosaurs. 40 to 60 foot crocodiles with 6-inch teeth, flying dinosaurs with a wingspan of 39 feet, and 50-ton 100-foot-long dinosaurs all swam, flew, and walked within this park. Wow. So, cool. So further down the line came humans. There's been record of human activity within Big Ben dating back thousands of years. And while many groups of native peoples lived and passed through the area, most notably were the Comanches. They traveled through the area on what is now referred to as the Comanchee Trail on their way to and from raids in Mexico. And just a side note, on the Comanchees in particular, right now I'm reading a book called Empire the Summer Moon, and it's all about the rise and fall of the Comanche tribe, which has gone down in history as being one of the most powerful and arguably

one of the most brutal tribes in all of American history. And it is such a good book. It's horrific. I'm learning a lot about things that not only American settlers did to Native peoples, but also what Native peoples did to other tribes and to American settlers. And it's pretty gnarly. And if you want a different look at how Texas and the West was developed, you should definitely read that book. So skip forward a couple hundred years, and here we are in present day. The park service recommends visiting this park in the winter or early spring, as temperatures soar well over 100 degrees most of the year.

But don't be fooled by a 100 degree day, typical of a desert climate. When the sun sets, temperatures fall dramatically, and a blazing hot day can quickly end well below freezing. Also, we talked about one of the biggest features of Big Bend in the episode about the mysterious disappearance of Glenn and Bessie Hyde. The park was named for the vast curve of the Rio Grande. Also, in Texas, the Rio Grande forms a boundary between the United States and Mexico. and this park runs along it for about 100 miles, meaning that this park has a more difficult time enforcing park rules and regulations. And that is exactly what park ranger Carrie Brown was doing on the morning of March 31st, 2000. That morning, Carrie Brown had decided to get an early start on his day, patrolling the park for illegal activity, not uncommon in the area.

Within an hour of monitoring the park's main road, he noticed. noticed a pickup truck speeding along the roadway. Brown pulled the vehicle over and was making his way to the driver's window, mentally preparing his no-speeding spiel, when he noticed something strange from under the tarp covering the bed of the truck. Peeking under the corner, he discovered hundreds of pounds of individually wrapped blocks of marijuana. This routine traffic stop just took its first turn into a drug bust. Brown approached the window and requested that the two men step out. Suddenly, the passenger reaches down, grabs a bottle of water, and bolts. He whipped the door open and booked it straight into the desert. Not wanting to chase after him and risk

the driver taking off, Brown immediately radios for backup. Both the National Park Service and the U.S. Border Patrol are dispatched and a group of rangers are sent out on foot and on horseback to track down the runaway. Meanwhile, Brown took the driver down to headquarters and questioned him. Turns out the marijuana in the truck weighed in at 400 pounds and was worth millions of dollars. The driver kept his mouth shut and denied knowing who the passenger was. He stated he was just some guy he was giving a ride to. Not getting anywhere, Brown hands off the investigation to the DEA, and it was pretty good timing as just four hours later, Rangers searching for the man in the desert, discovered something that would give Brown an entirely new problem to solve.

Deep into the park in a remote area called Dagger Flat, a group of searchers stumbled upon something strange. A patch of red stuck out against the desert landscape. As they approached, the details became clear. A red blanket was draped over chicken wire, which was wrapped around a body. The skull and the upper torso were protruding from a half-dug grave. A rope, pick-axe, shovel, and tent pegs were surrounding the area. The search for the runaway was immediately called off. They basically said, we have some bigger fish to fry here. Lucky him. And I'm going to just say this right now because I'm sure you're going to ask. I have no idea what happened to that guy. I was going to say, did he live because he ran out in the middle of desert with a bottle of water.

So, right. They were like, all right, we're not looking for him. So later days. Good luck. Like, I have no idea what happened to him. The body was still in close. clothing, a denim shirt with the word magic embroidered over the left pocket, and on its feet were size 13 Nikes. First thoughts were immediately, this must be drug-related. This close to the border, most violent crimes stem from drug activity. But the scene was telling a different story. The scene seemed to be staged, with the grave, the chicken wire, the tent stakes. Natural causes seemed to be off the table as well, and suicide didn't quite fit the bill. After all, he didn't bury himself. Two days later, the remains were exhumed and brought to the medical examiner's office,

and it is at this point that the Texas Rangers and the FBI join in. A trio of investigators was formed. Park Ranger Brown, FBI Agent French, and Texas Ranger Duncan were now on this case. The medical examiner reveals that the upper part of the body was mummified due to exposure to the elements of the desert. The body belonged to a male, and it was guessed that the body had been in the park anywhere from three weeks to six months. No physical trauma on the remains could be identified, and no cause of death could be determined due to the lack of soft tissue remaining on the body. But X-rays taken revealed a large medical screw in its left ankle. The team started looking through missing persons files from Texas, hoping to find any sort of lead.

After pouring through file upon file, a member of the team pulled one, the only file of a missing male with a pin in his left ankle. The missing person's report for a man named Shannon Roberts. Shannon Roberts was born in 1957 and grew up in Idaho in a family of artists and professors who all shared a love of nature. He was described as brilliant. He studied physics and eventually became very successful as a geophysicist for an oil company. By all accounts, he led a very normal life, traveling to Peru and Hawaii, he went camping and had friends. But when the economy dropped, he was laid off. He moved to San Antonio, about 400 miles from Big Bed National Park, and began medical school at the University of Texas. At the age of 43, he thought that the money and the prestige of becoming a doctor was a good decision.

But by his third year, he began to realize that he was struggling to keep up with the program. He was falling behind in class. His grades were suffering. And student loan debt proved itself to be a huge financial problem for Shannon. Investigators began questioning students at the university about him. My sources varied on who actually filed the initial missing persons report back in March of 2000, whether it was Shannon's father or one of his class. But either way, the investigators wanted to question his classmates to gather more information about him.

And one of them named Jason Shorestone told investigators that he appeared to be increasingly depressed, and he spoke to him about not having any direction in life. They also spoke to one of his friends named Ray McQueen, who mentioned that at one point he did have a lover who he only referred to as sweet thing. Other than knowing that nickname and that his lover was male and that they had been arrested together at some point in the past, he had no idea who he was. Ten days after Shannon's body was discovered, investigators made their way to his apartment. What they found was like a hoarder's paradise, cluttered with junk. Stacks of books, collectibles, clothing, animal skulls piled high throughout the space. It had little paths between everything that you needed to follow. to get from room to room.

They spoke with the apartment manager who told them that he often had a lot of younger people coming in and out on a regular basis, and some even had their own key and would be there when Shannon wasn't even home. And one of those people was Michael Baker. Baker grew up in San Antonio with his mother, after his parents divorced when he was six.

He went to private Christian schools but had a little bit of a rebellious side. He was 16 when he was. and his friend Travis were not invited to return back to private school. And it was then, Mike entered the public school system for the first time. And it was when he walked into Tom C. Clark High School, his world opened up to cars, girls, and drugs. He was mesmerized by this new utopia and all the fun possibilities that it opened up for him. It was also then, in the summer of 1997, when he was first introduced to Shannon by his girlfriend,

who lived in the same apartment complex. Mike had wanted to buy cigarettes when his girlfriend suggested they go to docks, the older guy, a few apartments down, who was weird but was a medical student and had access to pills and who would buy him whatever he wanted. Mike was hesitant at first,

but his girlfriend insisted. After all, her and her brother would go to his apartment and hang out there all the time. She is one of the people who even had a key, and the pair let themselves, into the apartment and made themselves comfortable. Time passed as Mike took in the surroundings of the apartment, filled with clutter, a TV, and a lazy boy.

Finally, they heard the doorknob turn and in-walked Shannon Roberts, aka Doc. Mike recalls him as Smart Weird, the kind of person that strikes you as strange right off the bat. And it didn't take long for that feeling to become valid, and it was here in their very first meeting when Doc turned to Mike and casual as ever asked, have you ever thought about killing someone? First time in his apartment, and that's the first. If you ask that ever, it's creepy, but literally you just meet this person. And so he's selling drugs, too.

You did mention he's a medical student and he has access to pills that he's selling to his neighbors. Is that right? Well, yeah, so you'll see as the story goes on, he wasn't selling it. he was literally giving it to them. So here's this 40-something-year-old man inviting teenage kids into his apartment, welcoming them into his space and providing them with drugs, alcohol, a free space to, you know, kind of just throw all the rules out the window. It wasn't like you. This immediately gives me creep vibes. Mm-hmm.

He didn't even have to say, would you ever kill someone or have you thought of killing someone? It was just odd off the bat. And that's exactly what Mike, those vibes that Mike had. It was just odd, you know. Yeah. So Doc may have seemed a little off, but what he offered far trumped any weird vibes. Doc's apartment was Party Haven, and it regularly drew groups of teens for what it had to offer. Like I said, it was a place absent of parents and rules. And Doc may have been struggling financially. Like I said, his student loan debt was something that was. really difficult for him to deal with. And he also had substance abuse issues of his own. He was actually an AA for 10 years before this. But somehow he managed to supply the teens with

weed, alcohol, Coke, LSD, mushrooms, anything they wanted, he would do and get for them. They would get high together and watch faces of death, which contained footage of car accidents, assassinations, and botched surgeries. And I actually had to look up this faces of death thing. And because I think it's just like slightly before our time. And it's not clear to me whether it was actual footage or just really dramatized footage to look real of really messed up situations. But it was his thing. He always had it playing. Ew, that makes us so much creepier. It gets worse.

What kind of college kid would walk into this? Oh yeah, they're in high school. High school. Yeah. I mean, I used to talk to some older people to buy me some free booze. But I mean, I certainly, it was more of one of those things that was like, ha, ha, ha, yeah, totally. And then they'd buy me booze and be like, hey, bye.

And I wouldn't actually go inside, like, a building with them. Yeah. This was not the case in this situation. And this went on for a really long time. I hate this so much already. They would actually even watch snuff films. I'm like, I don't know if I'm just so innocent. I had to look up what it was.

I know what snuff films are. So for people who don't, I guess I knew what they were. I just didn't know what the term, the terminology was. So snuff films are when people are being killed on camera on film. And if anyone has watched, don't fuck with cats on Netflix. It's essentially about snuff films. Either way, don't. love snuff films, but this guy did. Shannon Roberts, aka Doc, did. And he would play them

with the teens around. And he would become obsessive when speaking about mortality and death, and he'd bring it up all the time. Conversations would always go to dark places, and Doc would talk to them about wanting to die, and how he wanted his death to become a snuff film. Mike remembers him also delving into his sexual preferences and how he spoke about his fantasies of S&M and being choked by other men. But Doc also did other things. He helped them. He would help them with their homework, gave them free rides, and took interest in their personal lives. When he found out that Travis, Mike's friend, was interested in possibly becoming a dentist,

Doc snuck him into the cadaver lab at his medical school. to show him the teeth and mouths of the dead. Ew, this is feeling very predatory. You know, it's like, I do all this creepy stuff, but I'm also doing all this really nice stuff for you too and, like, might be construed as cool for a teenager. And then it's like, and then on the other hand, you're doing all this weird, creepy shit.

It's very predatory. And like you said, some of the people might have thought that it was cool and all that. But as the story goes on, you'll see that I think they understood just how odd he was, but they were taking advantage of him for what he was providing them with. Kind of like, well, he's creepy and weird. And we think that something's wrong with him. But he's also giving us all this stuff. Like he would buy them clothes, give them money, obviously give them access to things like

alcohol and cigarettes. They couldn't just go down to the store and buy at the time. So they were basically taking advantage of him at this point. Yeah, they were getting something out of it. It was the only reason why they were staying and being friendly. They were probably like, yeah, yeah, this is so cool. I need 20 bucks. Do you have it? Right. Going off of the predatory thing, he also attempted advances at some of the young men. He would place his hand on their thighs, attempt to play wrestle with them and would sometimes strip down to his underwear in their presence. All of this was unwanted

and some of the teens were pretty disgusted by it and stopped coming by to hang out. But the ones that stayed justified it. Like I said, their attitude was, well, that's just Doc. That's just how he is. He's weird. Mike and his friends took advantage of what he offered them.

Meanwhile, they would make fun of him when they were in school. And while the back and forth talk about wanting to die, questions of if they would ever kill someone for money and weird movies. While that all got annoying, they dealt with it. This seems like it's all leading up to something. You're getting good at this. This whole figuring out what the story's going. We've read a lot of stories recently and I just feel like all this information is kind of adding up to explain what we heard at the beginning of the episode. So while it may have all seemed like fun in games to some of these teens, Doc was seriously struggling. In his third year medical school, like I said, he was starting to fall back on courses, and he actually failed his psychiatry rotation, which kind of upset him. I mean, seems fitting. Yeah, he failed that.

Seems kind of fitting. He's probably not psychologically all there. And he was also living off of different loans and he was borrowing money from his parents. You have to think about it. Like, I think back to college and there were certainly times that I was struggling for money and I was living off of loans. But I was also 20. I wasn't 43 who was a geophysicist in the past and was, you know, it's, It's different when you're in your mid-40s and you're having all these problems having to borrow money from your parents. And it just puts you in a different mental state. I think when you're younger and struggling, you can justify it in your mind of like, well, I haven't made it in the world yet. But for him, it was really difficult to deal with. Yeah, I'm sure everyone around him was successful and had homes and had money. And maybe that's why he hung out with teenagers too, was they were all broke and in school. school, or maybe that's one of them, but it kind of seems more like he's a predator. But it sounds like

he just doesn't have his life together. And I mean, borrowing money from your parents when you're 20 is like, yeah, I'm broke and a mess. Thank you. And when you're 40, it's like, oh, I'm supposed to be an adult now. So while he was borrowing money from his parents, his parents actually didn't really know much about what was going on in his life. He tried to put on a good face around them and during phone calls saying that while school was difficult, he was making due and that he was still chugging along at his program, even though he stopped attending school in September of 1999. And his parents also didn't know that he was gay. So he had kind of like a double life going on that he hid from a lot of people. As time went on and his situation

became more dire, Doc turned to his teenage friends with increased urgency. He repeatedly asked them, would you kill someone for money? Would you kill me for money? How much would it take? Come on. And it was always returned with some form of, hell no man, no way. Why would you ask me that? Discouraged by the lack of support from his quote unquote friends, Shannon turned to the classifieds. He put ads in the San Antonio's underground gay newspaper with words signifying his interests such as autoerobic asphyxiation. He had some interest and even met with several different men on different occasions, but to no avail. Things would start going good, you're on a date, you're getting to know people, you're obviously meeting over a similar interest. But as soon as the whole death and dying and would you kill me, subject came up,

everyone kind of just dipped out of there. So Shannon was into what's called odd assassinophilia, which is the sexual fetish of wanting to be killed. And all this rejection was getting very frustrating. He wanted to die. He just didn't want to kill himself. He had a very specific vision, but he just couldn't find anyone to bring it to life. This was brought to the attention of investigators by an anonymous caller who responded to one of his ads. He explained that he met up with Shannon thinking he was in for a night of role play, only to be frightened off when he was offered money to kill Shannon. That's so scary. Well, so I have a couple of thoughts on this. So it's scary for sure for the person on the receiving end of this who has no idea what this man's intentions were because I see on one

hand, you don't want to just put in the paper, will come kill me for money. I'll pay you if you come kill me. You know, so for the person responding to that, it's a very unfair position to be put into because you're thinking you're just going over for some kinky sex and a good time. And now you're being put in a position of, will you murder me? Will you murder me? Yeah. Whoa, I thought we were doing some weird shit, but that's a little, it's a little much. Yeah, exactly. And as far as, you know, all the people responding to him about the autoerotic asphyxiation, like everyone has different sexual interests and kinks and all that. And we're not shaming any of that. We're just shaming the fact that he didn't properly inform the people consenting to a

sexual encounter with him that this was not just purely sexual. And this was, this was turning into something totally different that they didn't want to. It's like, okay, I just wanted to have sex. I didn't want to murder you. So I'm leaving. Sorry. Kind of the opposite problem that women have, you know? He's like, please murder me. And women are like, please don't murder me. I have to laugh at that, but, you know. You gotta make light of things or we're just, we would all just be sad and crying all the time. Well, have you seen that thing of if it was only women for 24 hours in the world, what would you do? And women are like, I would walk home alone at night. And I would wear a short skirt. And I would go to the bar by my mom. myself and it's like these are things that we have to think about every second of every day. I mean, I go into my car and before I even get in, I look in the back seat as soon as I sit in the car, I lock the door. It's just things that have become such second nature that you don't really think about why you're doing it. And then when you actually reflect on why you're doing it,

it's really sad that that's what it's come to for a lot of women in the world. I mean, every woman has something that they do. Like when I walk in a parking lot, I never look at my phone and I'm never on my phone in a parking lot ever. And whenever I'm walking through a parking lot or by myself and I have my keys in my hand, I always have a key between my fingers. Punch someone with a key. It's like my own little mini like breast knuckles, but with keys, I'll put them through like a couple fingers. Just things that you have to think about. And then I always try to look mean when I'm, and it's, I don't look mean. So, okay. That's. never going to work for you. So I would get another time. I'm like smiling, but I'll like try not to.

I'm like, oh my God, we can go down a rabbit hole with that one, but that's not what the story is about. Yeah, a little off topic. Okay, where was I? Do do do do to do. At this point, investigators had pieces, but they were struggling to fit them together. Then, while pouring over records, they found an arrest report from 1997. Recalling that Ray McQueen, Shannon's friend that they had interviewed earlier, stated that he got arrested with his lover, Sweet Thing, during that year, they were determined to uncover his identity. Maybe Sweet Thing was the missing link, the person who killed Shannon. The report did indicate that Shannon and another man were pulled over and arrested after cocaine was discovered in the man's backpack. And that backpack belonged to none other than

Michael Baker. The team didn't want to alert Mike that they knew something was up and that they had suspected that he had a link to Shannon's death. During their initial questioning, they interviewed him at his mother's house and asked basic questions about his friendship with Doc. At the time of the questioning, Mike was 20 years old, jobless, and living at home with his mom, divulged details on their odd friendship, but despite the nickname Shannon had for him, he denied ever having a sexual relationship with him. He also said that he hadn't seen him in a while. When asked if he had ever visited Big Bend, He said, yeah, maybe once or twice when I was a kid on family vacations, but his mother shot him a weird look and corrected him,

saying that they had never been there before. Carrie Brown recalled that as an odd flag, but the interview was otherwise normal and Michael was charming and nonchalant. They found no evidence of a sexual relationship, and they left their interview thinking that was the last time they would hear of Michael Baker. That little sentence right there of that he thought maybe once or twice as a kid. I don't think that's super odd because you might have gone camping somewhere as a kid and you might be like, oh, yeah, I've been to Big Bend before and just not realized it was somewhere a couple hours south of

you or something. So that wouldn't strike me super odd, but maybe, because you added it to the story, it is really odd, but. Yeah, you'll see, but it is a good point. I mean, recalling things from when you're a kid is difficult. And especially he grew up in the area, I'm sure that's the closest national park to them. So, you know, why not think that you went camping there when you were a kid? You know, it could go either way. So I see that point. And I think they maybe took that into consideration as well because, like Carrie Brown said, like it was a little weird and he kind of thought twice about it, but it was nothing in any way to tie him to anything at this point. So the case stalled for years. Baker went on with his life. His relationship with his girlfriend became more

serious. They got a husky and named him Jinks, and they moved in together. He got a good job, started classes at Southwest Texas University in San Marcos, and he was putting the whole doc situation and the odd time that he spent with that older guy in the past. Two years after the discovery of Shannon Roberts' body in Big Ben National Park, the investigators weren't really making any headway until Shannon's finances were examined. They noticed charges stopping around the estimated time of his death, but then they continued. One charge was for a hotel in New Orleans during Mardi Gras. The hotel was contacted and questioned in regards to whose name the charges were linked to. Hmm, let's take a look. Keys clicked as the computer was searched. Ah, right here,

Michael Baker. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. That like gave me chills a little bit. I'm like, no. Not him. He just got a husky named Jinks with his girlfriend. It can't be him. It can't be him. So this time, Baker was brought in for questioning again, and it was not at his mother's house in just a nice casual conversation. He was brought into the station. And the interview was a lot more serious.

The questions were more poignant and direct. Baker was hesitant this time around, too, and didn't give the team much to go on. But the team had ammo. using someone's stolen credit card as a felony. One of the team members did something brilliant. He wrote the words, debit card abuse on a piece of paper, tore it out of the notepad,

flipped it upside down, and slid it in front of Baker. He said, we know you committed a felony on that piece of paper. On the other hand, we know that Roberts wanted to die. Fun fact, in Texas assisted suicide is a misdemeanor,

carrying a much lighter sentence than credit card fraud. They told him they'd recommend the prosecutors dropped the charge if he was to cooperate. Pinned, Baker took a swig of the coke Ranger Duncan had just bought him, sat back in his chair, and told them everything. It seemed as if Doc eventually let go of the sexual component of his death fantasy and left it as he just simply wanted to die. He wanted his life to end, and he begged Michael Baker to do it. Incessantly, over months and months, even showing up to his mother's house

after Baker stopped going to his apartment. Baker gave in and agreed to kill Shannon Roberts for the big price tag of $1,000. Hold on. What? $1,000. Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, he did have financial problems. I'm not sure how he would have paid him

more than that, I guess. There's that and at the time Michael Baker was a young kid and who also had some drug problems that for $1,000, how much can you get with that? And to us now, $1,000 is definitely not worth killing somebody over. I mean, no price is worth killing someone over, but to him, it was a lot of money. In early February of 2000, the pair drove to Big Bend National Park. Doc drove, while Baker slept in the back seat. Doc knew exactly what he wanted. He wanted to die.

But he didn't want to just go anywhere. The area around San Antonio just didn't feel right to him. But the Chisos Mountains of Big Ben National Park reminded him a little bit of home in Idaho. He had scouted the area before. Park records indicate that he had been to this area on January 18th as a solo hiker. When they arrived at the park's entrance, no one was at the gate. But Doc signed in anyway, rode his name down with a destination of Dagger Mountain.

The pair drove 20 miles into the park to Old Ore Road, a scarcely visited unpaved road to one of the most unexplored areas of the park. The two got out of their car and walked away, Doc leading them further and further away from the road. He suddenly stopped and turned to Baker. It was clear he had been here to this very spot. Baker looked past Doc's shoulder to the marked ground. Doc had been here all right, and he had already dug his own grave.

Just imagine being Michael showing up to this area, there's already a grave dug. I'm sure he's already super nervous that entire car ride, and then he gets to the location, it's time, and he already has a grave dug for him. And it's in a very remote area of an already very remote park. It's just bizarre. The whole thing is just bizarre. Part of me would think, like, am I getting murdered now? Yeah, like, is this, are the table's going to turn? What is happening?

I'd be scared. Yeah, and if, and you have to realize, like, this has been going on. He has now known Doc for years. Like, he was 16 when he met him, and this is years later. Like, this has been something that he has been asking of him and others around him for a very long time. Shannon planned where he wanted to die, but he also put a lot of thought into how. He explained to Baker that he wanted to be tied down to the tent stakes, spread eagle, and he wanted to be cut open. He wanted to be disemboweled. Worried that young Baker,

already reluctant, would not do as he pleased. He added insurance. Shannon locked the $1,000 in his mailbox, filed down the mailbox key as small as possible, wrapped it in plastic, and swallowed it. Baker would have to open him up to get it. Ah, that's so morbid and horrible. Oh. And also, I don't, I mean, he must have had a very serious drug problem because $1,000 to not only kill someone, but to actually cut him open alive, to dig out a key. And also, your intestines are filled with, I mean, it's already digested. It's filled with poop, you know, like, and you're going to cut that open and dig around. Oh, God.

It reminds me of a saw situation. Like, before Saw was a saw, you know, because this is before all of that. It was definitely very involved, and he had obviously thought about it very extensively. I'm going to throw that. But, like, how you kind of said, like, how, who would do that for $1,000? Baker started freaking out. He was saying, I can't do it. It's too much. This is crazy. Like it would be one thing if it's like, okay, I want to die. Here's a gun. Shoot me. Even though that in and of itself is wild and I don't think I could ever do that.

But it's way less traumatizing than cutting someone open who is tied down and alive. But Doc was persistent. They were already here. They had come all this way, and he had wanted this for so long. Doc began freshening up the grave, digging it up a little deeper. Meanwhile, Baker is becoming more and more distraught. There is just no way he could do this. He argued with him and tensions rose. Finally, Baker snapped, grabbed his shovel, and struck him as hard as he could. He says, quote, I remember expecting him to drop like they do in the movies. I hit him twice, right on top of his head, as hard as I could. It was like, nothing. He was bleeding profusely, but it didn't phase him. That fucked me up. You see all these goddamn movies. You hit someone with a broomstick and they

fall right over. I put everything I had into hitting him with that shovel. And nothing. They both gave up and began their journey home. They even stopped at subway. Doc was bleeding and clearly beaten, they were both sweaty and dirty, it must have been quite the sight. When they pulled back into San Antonio, Baker remembers Doc looking at him, defeated, saying, I really hadn't planned on coming back into town. Hold on, so he didn't kill him? Danielle, what are you doing to me? And us, everyone listening, we all were just like, that's what happened.

And then you're like, no, then they go home and they eat something. subway. It's like, how did this happen? Who did this? Can you just imagine? First of all, at the ride there, like, okay, I'm now sitting in the back of a car with someone who wants me to kill him and we're driving to the area where I'm about to commit murder. I'm going to have to then commit murder. And then I'm going to have to drive home by myself, knowing that I just left somebody in the desert dead. But now you have to wrap your mind around the, okay, I just attempted to beat the brains out of someone. It didn't work. And he's alive. And we both just shrugged at each other and been like, okay, well, that didn't work. And now you're driving home and you stop because you're

hungry for a sub. Like, what? Like, he's sitting in the, like, he's sitting in the seat next to him, and he's just bleeding, and they both ordered a foot long. Yeah, it's just a bizarre situation. I mean, everything about this story is super bizarre. So, okay, tell me, tell me what happened. Okay. Okay. How are we getting to that part? So, it didn't take long for Shannon to badger him again. In the days following the botched attempt, once again, Baker caved. This time around, Shannon offered him $4,000 to finish the job.

And Michael can't remember the exact date, but he does admit to driving back to the same exact location around the 10th of February. Doc was standing in the grave. egging him on, grabbing him, shaking him, saying mean things to him, getting him angry on purpose, as if he wanted to ensure that this time he would really be killed. Eventually, Baker picked up a piece of rope, grabbed him from behind, and strangled him. Baker recalls Doc struggling towards the end and thinking if he had changed his mind or if it was just his body's natural reaction to the lack of oxygen. But it was too late for second thoughts now.

Doc was dead. He wrapped his body in chicken wire to keep the coyotes from consuming it, filled the hole partially, and covered him with the red blanket. He drove out of the park in a daze of panic and relief. He vividly remembers listening to Breathe by Faith Hill and fast car by Tracy Chapman over and over on the way back to San Antonio. He went to Doc's mailbox to collect the money, only to find there was less than $2,000 waiting for him.

Wow. So less money than you thought. Also very sneaky, Doc. And maybe you should have got a deposit beforehand. I don't know. It just didn't work out, you know, in a lot of ways. I mean, I don't know. Could have been no money in there.

There could have been all the money in there. It doesn't matter. It's still a messed up situation. So Michael Baker was arrested and charged with first-degree murder and sent to Reeves County Jail. For 10 weeks awaiting trial, he planned to escape. He called his lawyers and asked if there was any chance of pleading down to second-degree murder. And once he found out the odds were not in his favor, he executed his grand plan. He had stolen street clothes, put them on underneath his jail uniform,

and when his unit was called for wreck time, he snuck into a moment. mop closet where he shed his uniform and snuck out through the ventilation system. He landed on the sidewalk and was almost immediately questioned by a jailer. He said, Baker, what the hell are you doing out here? He quickly made up a story about making bail and they actually shook hands and the jailer wished him good luck. He walked away and as soon as he turned the corner and out of sight, he bolted. He hopped a train and rode away from jail throughout the night. Exhausted and with little options of where to go, he ended up calling his lawyer,

who told him that the U.S. Attorney's Office was offering a plea deal for second-degree murder, providing that he turned himself in. Baker agreed, his escape had lasted fewer than 36 hours. Baker's dad said he did get a kick out of the entire thing, and his friend Travis even said, how stupid you should have gone to Mexico. He pleads guilty to the charge of murdering Shannon Roberts on November 13, 2003,

and was sentenced to 210 months in prison. Many of Baker's classmates don't associate with him because of what he did, while others stick by him saying that Doc was sick and that he prayed on Baker, who at the time was just a confused kid, who got in too deep and couldn't get out. Baker says, quote, Did I want to kill him? No, of course not.

Was it easy to talk myself into? No. However, once it was done, it felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. Do I view myself as a psycho or a sociopath? No. I have taken psych courses to know the signs. I think what I did was make a very deliberate, almost logical decision. I made that choice, and to this day, I am still content with it. In Idaho, Shannon Roberts' mother planned to scatter his ashes in a meadow on top of a mountain, the same place where his grandparents' ashes were also scattered. The last time Shannon had visited Idaho back in 1997, him and his father had hiked up to that very meadow. There was no official service, and Doc's parents eventually told their friends that their son had fallen while hiking. In an interview from prison, Michael Baker told writer

Rachel Monroe, quote, I remember the last time he was down in that hole, digging, I was thinking it would be so easy just to get this over with because I really didn't want him to come back to my car. And so I grabbed the rope and tossed it around his neck. Doc tried to clamor out of the hole but couldn't. It was too deep. He swung the pickaxe at Baker, who dodged it easily. Finally, he stopped struggling.

After a long pause, Rachel asked Michael, so he didn't want to die. To which Baker let out an odd, strangled half laugh. It sure didn't seem like it. And that is the story of the death of Shannon Roberts. Wow. That is one of the creepiest ones we've told on this podcast. Also, side question, they originally told him that it would be assisted suicide and it was a misdemeanor, but that was just a ploy to get him to admit to it. So that's a really good question because I was, very confused about that. So I saved this. So in this article that I read, it does say,

the card fraud was a possible felony charge, investigators told Baker, but assisted suicide was a Class C misdemeanor in Texas. Strictly speaking, this is true, but only if the assist doesn't result in serious injury or death. If it does, then it's a felony. So I also don't understand that because Because assisted suicide, so you can't actually help, you can't be successful in the assisted suicide or you get charged with a felony. Right. That is what I gather from that. That had a lot of twists and turns and ups and downs.

And there's, of course, a lot of layers to the mental state of doc and kind of what he, obviously he had a lot of issues. Because while I was researching the story, I went back and forth with emotions of like feeling bad for him. And people were making fun of him. And he was in a bad situation in life. And obviously he was struggling in a lot of areas of life. But that's no excuse to take advantage of underage children or underage kids and show them snuff films and trying to make advances on the unwanted advances. It's just.

I feel bad for the person. he was when clearly he had some he had to have had something traumatic happened to him and I feel bad for the person that he was before he turned into the person that he became if that makes sense like yeah so I feel bad for that person but the person that he became and became a predator it's kind of like there's no sympathy there anymore you're you're not right and you have a lot of mental issues going on here and um the predator part and I mean he clearly he clearly needed Some help somewhere. Yeah.

And it's unfortunate that he didn't get it. So that's the end of that story. I have a whole book on different deaths that have happened in Big Bend National Park. And if you would like to read it, it's called Death and Big Bend. Real Stories of Death and Rescue in Big Bend National Park by Lawrence Parent. So I would definitely look into that. If you want some light bedtime reading, go ahead. That's about it, unless you have.

have anything else to add. No, thanks for sharing that story. I think we're all going to have some nightmares tonight, but it was a good one. Thank you everyone so much for joining us this week. If you want to keep up with us between our episodes every Monday, you have a couple options. We have a Instagram and Facebook. You can find us there at National Park After Dark. You can send us an email at NPAD podcast at gmail.com. And we do also have a website. N-P-A-D-Podcast.com that has a listener form submission link. So if you have a personal experience of something creepy going on in a national park, National Forest, State Park, we would love to hear about it. That form can be accessed through our website. And we also have a list of our book

recommendations that we talk about throughout the episodes and that we use for references for our stories. I think that's it. So in the meantime, enjoy the view. But watch you're back. Bye everyone. Bye guys. I'm sorry. Did you say Chihuahua Desert? Is it Chihuahua Desert?

No, there's an N at the end of it. It's chihuahuan. Okay, it's literally just in that one because I'm like, shit, I know. It's a Chihuahua Desert. I was just picturing like a bunch of little chihuahua. My bad. Wrong. So wrong.

You're listening to this podcast. so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you may not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressives save over $900 on average. Pop over to Progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by.

In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit Progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.