National Park After Dark - The Devil’s in the Details: Starved Rock State Park (Part 1)

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

*Warning: This episode involves graphic discussion of violent acts and sexual assault*In March of 1960, three friends set out for a girls trip to Starved Rock State Park. When they were discovered brutally murdered inside the park – the pressure was on to find who was responsible. After months of investigation, a state park employee confesses to the crimes and is sent to prison. Despite his initial confession, Chester Weger maintains his innocence over six decades later. For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Athena Club: Use code NPAD at checkout to get a free Gentle Body Scrub with the purchase of a Razor Kit. Or get started with Athena Club today by shopping in-store at Target nationwide.Embrace Pet Insurance: Use our link to sign up for pet insurance today! Beam: Use our link and code NPAD for up to 40% off.Microdose Gummies: Use code NPAD to get free shipping and 30% off your first order.For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Monday AI agents took over my work. And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Monday.com. So they see the full picture, my work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff,

knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress.

Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. When the unspeakable happens, people want answers. Answers make us feel safe.

They provide explanation to the unexplainable and comfort within chaos. But not every question receives one. As humans, this is incredibly frustrating. We crave solutions, resolve, endings. To have psychological closure is paramount, especially when it comes to the death of a loved one, and particularly when that loved one is ripped violently away at the hands of someone else.

Who done it, murder mystery cases have always held a particular fascination within the collective mind. It doesn't matter when it happened or where. The urge to metaphorically close the Manila folder and file it away under case closed can be overwhelming, especially when there is widespread pressure from the public to do just that. But this is a dangerous game. Yes, we hate open endings. Admitting that we just don't have all the answers is against our names.

nature. But sometimes, in our rush to tie up a case in a bow, we can leave some loose ends. Loose ends that, for some, leave the rest of their lives frayed and painful. Loose ends that are just begging to be examined just one more time. Welcome to National Park After Dark. Well, hello, and I'm already excited for this episode. I have been working so hard on this episode. I know, yeah. Yeah, you know how we're going. We said, it's vacation. Like last week, it wasn't. It wasn't for us.

We appreciate all of the love that everyone said, you deserve this and stuff. But we actually took that week off because we had to, we had a lot of travel before that. So we were actually, our kind of break was several weeks before last week's episode because it was one less episode that we had to record in that period of time. And then last week we were doing meetings and recording episodes and researching for more episode. So our vacation was a few weeks before that, but we appreciate all the love and understanding that we weren't here last week. It's the first time we've ever done that. But it's good to be back. It's weird. It's weird not being here on Mondays. So we're excited to be back here. And this episode is

one that, surprise, if you read the title or the description, we're going, I mean, it's not completely off the rails, but this is a case that is unique in a couple different ways because, number one, it is one of the most highly recommended or requested episodes to cover. I mean, we have been getting emails and DMs about this particular case since we started. And for the longest time, we didn't want to touch it because it's in a state park. So we're not in a national park. And I know. God forbid.

How dare you. And for a little while, I was thinking, you know, I wrote it down. But I was like, well, it's in a state park and we don't do that. And then, you know, there's some state park stories that have been requested more and more. So maybe there's something that we can do in that realm in the future. But for now, I was like, me, I don't know if I want to do it. And then I watched the documentary series and I knew I had to do it. So I started and I took notes like before we went to Africa.

I'm like, I'll remember. Like, this is so crazy. I'll remember. I look back at my notes that are 10 pages long. And I was like, I don't remember any of this. And I had to rewatch the documentary series. And then I still feel like there was a lot of questions. So I researched who else has covered this story. And there's a podcast series that's like over 15 episodes long, just about this case. Wow. So needless to say, this is going to be a two-parter on our end. I'm not going to make it any longer, even though it easily, easily could be. Everyone else, if you're really interested in this case, can fill in the gaps through other resources. Hey, I love a good, I love a good two-parter. And it's, it's time. We haven't

done a two-part. What was the last two-parter we did? It's been a while. Was it my, it wasn't the Ada Blackjack one was it? That was a three-parter. That was the first one after that. I think it was Bruno of Borneo. Oh, yeah. That was a while ago, though. It's time. We're here. It is time. It is time. Okay. And the other reason that I was like, okay, it's a sign. I should do this is, so like I said, I mentioned that I started initial research before. I left to drive back to New Hampshire and then go to Africa and on my route home, which I have driven multiple times before and have never noticed. I drove by the exit for the state park. And I was like, did you go? I did not. I did not. I had the two dogs. I was by myself and I just wanted

to get home. You know what I mean? I was just like, I can't. I understand there's reasonings, but I know. I know. And people are probably like... It's how I felt when I passed mammoth caves on a road trip. It was like there were reasons I didn't go. But I feel like, I mean, this story is rough. And it's kind of like after I tell you, you'll probably be like, okay, maybe it's not like a must see for the reason of the story. Yeah. I guess I don't know the story at all. Yeah. Okay. Well, you might change your mind. Well, let's go into it. Okay. Let's get into it.

Let's do it. Like I said, I didn't stop kicking myself a little bit for it. And that's because this park is voted the number one attraction in the entire state of Illinois. So at the risk of pissing a lot of like Midwesterners off, that area of the country is just kind of stigmatized as being pretty boring. Not a lot really going on just miles and miles of flat, treeless cornfields and farmland. And Chicago. And Chicago. Well, yeah.

Just that small little space called Chicago. But besides that, yeah. Besides that. But it's not the number one attraction in the state according to this random website that I got this information. Oh, I would say like that bean is like the number one attraction, I feel like. Or the pizza. Oh, deep dish. Yeah.

I've never had it. I don't think I'd like it. I'm a thin crust kind of girl. Yeah. But I will try anything once. Okay. Well. Not anything.

I know, I was going to say, I don't know about that. But anyone who lives within this area or has spent any significant amount of time in the Midwest will tell you that there are some hidden gems out there sprinkled throughout these quote unquote flyover states. And Starved Rock State Park is definitely one of them. Located about an hour and a half from Chicago, this roughly 2,600 acre park attracts millions of people year round to experience its unexpected beauty from canyons, seasonal waterfalls, miles of hiking trails, and plentiful outdoor recreational activities like camping, fishing, ice climbing, boating, birding, and more. The state's second state park is definitely alluring, but the history and legend of starved rock is what captures most people's

attention. This area has been home to humans as early as 8,000 BC, and throughout time, several Native American cultures thrived here. Most recently, various sub-trives, which number about 12 who belonged to a greater collective that is referred to as the Illinois Confederation. And they occupied the area from the 16th century through the early 19th century. European explorers and missionaries first passed through the area in the 1670s, and by the 1880s, the French had built Fort St. Louis atop a 125-foot sandstone butte due to its strategic position above the Illinois River. It didn't last very long as it was under almost constant pressure from the local tribes

and different small war parties throughout the French and Indian wars. And it was completely abandoned by the early 1700s and by 1720 all remains of the fort had disappeared, like it was never there. The name of the park itself comes from one of the most popular and widely accepted versions of local legend, which occurred on that same sandstone Bute, now within the state park boundaries, a few decades. later. According to the story in the 1760s, chief Pontiac leader of the Ottawa tribe was killed by a member of the Illenweck while attending a tribal council meeting. This triggered multiple battles between multiple bands of tribes and during one of those subsequent battles to kind of revenge his death, a group of

Ilanweck sought refuge from a band of Potawatomi, which were allies of the Ottawa, atop this 125 foot sandstone Butte. The Ottawa and Potawatomi surrounded the rock and waded them out. They stood their ground until the Illenwack, who were not properly supplied with food or water, began starving, thus giving the name to what we know now as Starved Rock. Starved Rock. I have to, as you're describing this, I'm like, I need to know what this looks like. Starved Rock State Park. Let's look at it. You won't think that it's in the middle of Illinois when you see images. Wow, this is, it's really beautiful. It almost looks like something that you would come across in Utah or something. Yeah, it's the, I'm pretty sure it's, um, the canyons are glacially carved. So there's a lot of, they're not exactly slot canyons, but it has, they have canyons and waterfalls and, um, it's really pretty there.

Yeah, they have ice climbing in the winter up the frozen waterfalls and cliff sides. This is really cool. Well, while you're there, I would Google St. Louis Canyon because that is where our story. is going to primarily take place today. Just so you have a visual. Okay, I'm looking at it. Now I have the visual. It's a beautiful waterfall. Well, keep that image in your mind.

Back to the subject of local legend. There is a story behind one of the park's trails as well. Loverlip Overlook Trail is 1.8 miles out and back, and it's a path that leads to amazing views and a beautiful waterfall. But it's named after a tragic event. According to one version of the story, very reminiscent of a classic Romeo and Julie, style story, two young Native Americans from separate warring tribes were forbidden to be together.

Instead of living apart, they chose to die together, embraced atop the overlook and jumped to their deaths. Another version tells the tale of a young Native American woman named Winona, who fell in love with a young warrior from a rival tribe. When that warrior was killed in battle, Winona, in the throes of grief, threw herself from the overlook to her death. It is said that her spirit is still wandering the area and can be heard crying and anguish. And of course, there is no way to verify either of these stories. But if the story or the name, Lovers Leap, sounds familiar, it's because this theme of lover suicides has been noted throughout the Americas and Europe for centuries. And in fact, there are more than two dozen lovers leaps in our country from California to Maine

with similar yet slightly different stories. So I thought that was really interesting because I'm like, I swear to God, I've been somewhere that there's a lover's leap, but I've definitely never been to this park. So I just thought it was interesting. Both of those stories have cemented themselves into local war. While with any legend, there's likely a kernel of truth, much of the rest of the stories are likely untrue. A local historian named Mark Walsinski has spent years. I thought you're going to say Mike Wazzowski. Not Mike Wazowski. It kind of looks like that. There's a lot of similar letters in there.

Like, I know him. I can picture him right now. He has spent years scoring over historical accounts and records, and he cross-examined early written accounts, different speeches, early explorer records and reports, diaries, correspondences, memoirs, and different archaeological reports. And through all his research, he has found little to no supporting evidence of, of course, the lover's leap stories, but even the starved rock namesake, like that first story I told you about. Though he didn't set out to intentionally debunk or take the air out of an exciting story,

he says, quote, there are numerous local legend, the starved rock legend being one of them, and they're great, they're necessary, they're wonderful, there's nothing wrong with them, but they are legends. True or not, his research has done nothing to detract from the park's charm. Following the 1700s, gang members and outlaws used and found refuge in the landscape and its numerous canyons and caves. In the 1830s, a man named Daniel Hitt purchased the land from the U.S. government as compensation for his time in the U.S. Army, but later sold it in 1890 to a man named Ferdinand Walther for a whole $15,000. An entrepreneur hit capitalized on the land's beauty and natural futures. He saw the potential of the area as a vacationer's paradise and began by

building the Starved Rock Hotel, complete with a concession stand, natural pool, and dance hall. He created several miles worth of walkable trails and created a small harbor near the hotel for boats. At this time, the area was only directly accessible by railroad or ferry, and the harbor allowed boat travel along the Illinois River, and connected visitors to other nearby resorts, attractions, and parks. Despite its popularity, Walter struggled to keep up with his expenses. The hotel was torn down and he sold the property to the state of Illinois in 1911. The following year Starved Rock State Park was open to the public as the state's second state park and attendance was over 75,000, which I think is wild for 1912. Like this is the year of the Titanic. And, you know,

it's not like you can't just hop in a car easily and buzz over somewhere, you know, in a couple hours. Like, you had to really venture. People made a big effort to be there. Exactly. In the 1930s, the Civilian Conservation Corps placed three camps within the park and built the lodge that you can still visit today, and finished up the trail systems. At this time, other state parks began popping up throughout the state, but Starved Rock remained the most extensively used in the entire state park system. In 1966, the park was named a National Historic Landmark, and in 1985, the Grand Historic Lodge and Surrounding Cabins, originally built by the CCC in the early 30s, earned spots on the National Register of Historic Places. The park's multiple canyons featuring vertical walls

of moss-covered sandstone formed by glacial meltwater that sliced dramatically through tree-covered bluffs, more than 13 miles of trails, spectacular overlooks, lush vegetation, and abundant wildlife, act as a beacon for people miles and miles around as a place to detach from day-to-day worries and immerse in nature. And that is exactly what three friends decided to do in the spring of 1960 when their lives were brutally cut short. And that brings us to the triple murder of Star-Dry. State Park. Oof. We started high.

We're going to go low. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. If everyone's ready to be brought down, let's do this. On the morning of March 14th, 1960, three middle-aged women left their upper middle-class homes in the Chicago suburb of Riverside for a multi-day vacation to Starved Rock State Park. They were all mothers and notable community members, and they were all active in their local churches.

47-year-old Francis Frankie Murphy had four children and was married to the vice president of Borg-Warner Corp, a local automotive company. 50-year-old Mildred Lindquist had two children and was married to the vice president of a local bank. And Lillian Oding, also 50, had three children and was married to a local telephone company official. And I want to mention I really hate describing women based purely on who they are married to and how many children they have. but that's the information that's widely available on them. So I had to include it. Just like any of us gearing up for a few days away with some girlfriends, the women were prepared to kick back and relax.

Among their belongings were a birding field guide, some novels to read, binoculars and a 35 millimeter camera, and their knitting supplies. They were doing vacation right. That's my, like, I'm in my cozy era right now where I'm like, yeah, I want to go birding. Yeah. Teach me how to knit.

I want to sit down and take photos in nature. Sounds great. And I want to finish up my book that I've been wanting to read, but I can't because I have responsibilities and a lot of things to do. It was just a perfect like getaway long. Slow down. Girls vacation. Yep.

Relax. Yeah. They had packed their suitcases into Lily and Odings Cadillac Station wagon around 10 a.m. And about two and a half hours later, they arrived at the Starved Rock. lodge for their planned four-day excursion and checked into the lobby. There was a light snow falling outside, blankening the park in a dusting of white when the desk clerk, Esther Egoff, checked the trio in, and a bellhop helped bring their belongings up to rooms 109 and 110. Upon check-in, they were given lunch vouchers, and according to Esther, the woman who checked them in, they had made a remark about

returning to the dining room to grab a bite to eat before heading out to explore the park. This seems like a relatively small detail, but it's at this point that the official timeline of events where there isn't debate as to where exactly the women were, what they were doing, where their exact movements led them to, that's where this ends. Like for sure, from here on out, everything has various different versions. Okay. Whether or not the women went to eat lunch in the dining hall, and despite if they did or didn't at all, when they actually left is also up for debate. But what we do know is that the trio left the lodge and never came back. The following morning, Tuesday the 15th, George Oding, Lillian's husband, called the lodge.

He hadn't heard from his wife since her and her friends departed, and he was just hoping to check in with her. He was told by the person who answered the phone, whose identity still remains unclear, that they were seen at breakfast and must be out somewhere in the park. The snow continued to fall as the day wore in tonight and the lodge's phone ring again. Esther picked up to hear it was George, once again calling to check in as his original phone call was never returned and he still hadn't connected with his wife. She promised to convey the call and took down a message and placed the note in her room box. The next morning, Wednesday, March 16th, Herman Oding, who was George's

brother, knowing that his brother still hadn't been able to connect with Lillian, called the lodge. This time, worry has grown to significant concern, and Herman requested their rooms be checked, and that the parking lot be searched for their car. Lodge staff complied and did exactly that. Upon unlocking their rooms and glancing out into the parking lot, they became just as concerned as the Oding family. The beds appeared to still be made, and their suitcases were still neatly packed and in their rooms. Additionally, Lillian's Cadillian's Cadillac was in the same parking spot, blanketed in snow, sitting clearly unmoved and undisturbed for days. Staff notified the odings of their discovery, and Herman immediately sprang into action. He demanded that authorities be notified,

and he went on to pass on the news to his brother, Lillian's husband. He also went on to notify Robert Murphy and Robert Lundquist, the husbands of Francis and Mildred. After speaking with the two husbands, he notified his friend Virgil Peterson, who was the operating director of the Chicago Crime Commission. Peterson then went on to contact state police and other law enforcement agencies in the area. By 9 a.m., a search party had been assembled. Terry Martin, the State Park Custodian, and a group of juvenile delinquents from the Illini Camp for Boys in a nearby town gathered and spread out throughout the park. Several hours later, a group of these boys led by Henry Walford, a warder. from that youth camp had gotten their car stuck in some deep snow nearby the mouth of St. Louis

Canyon. Because remember, a snowstorm had kind of come through the area and there was about a foot of snow on the ground. They abandoned the car that they were in that had gotten stuck and made their way through the snow on foot towards the canyon, abruptly stopping at a horrific scene. And I'm just going to pause here because I forgot to give a warning at the top of this episode. This episode is the most brutal crime we have ever covered. And I'm not going to go into extreme detail, but just to properly tell the story, there is going to be some graphic descriptions in this, both sexual and physical. So just a warning right now. Well, thank you for the heads up because I know that's important for a lot of people listening if they want to keep hearing this story.

Yep. So if you want to bail, here's your time. Go in peace. Okay, here we go. So they had found Lillian, Francis, and Mildred. They were clearly deceased. Their bodies were brutally beaten, almost beyond recognition, and to near decapitation. Their hands were bound, clothing was pulled down, and legs spread in an intentional, suggestive

manner. Their bodies were posed, but they were also laid out in a row side by side. And they were dragged up underneath a lip of the canyon next to the frozen waterfall. So if you look at a picture of St. Louis Canyon right now, especially in the winter, you'll see the frozen waterfall and you'll see this little cave of where they were dragged up and placed in. Law enforcement descended onto the scene immediately. Sheriff Ray Yutzi, Deputy Detective Bill Dummett, and State Attorney Harlan Warren were among the first to arrive. Warren ordered the state police to utilize propane torches to start melting away the snow, which had fallen significantly over the last couple of days, to melt it away to uncover any ever. evidence left behind. As Warren was walking, he stepped on top of a log underneath a layer of snow.

It was discovered to have blood on it. Binoculars and a camera were also found covered in blood. Due to the snowy conditions of the roads, it took hours for members of the state crime lab and pathologists to arrive on scene. The bodies remained in the open for hours and were not removed until well into the night and were carried out on stretchers assisted by flashlights and lanterns. Upon the body's removal from the park, they were taken to the whole funeral home for autopsy. The details of the report are extremely graphic. And while I will discuss some of the details later on specifically, because they pertain to certain tidbits and elements of the case, the murders were all horrifically brutal.

And I will just also pause to say, I'll mention it later, especially in part two. The multi-part podcast that has, you know, 15 or so episodes on it, their website has all the original documents or most of the original documents to this case that have been scanned and uploaded. So that's what I've been doing for the last two weeks is reading through all of them. And the autopsy reports are also online. Although some of them have been, some parts of them have been redacted because they are so brutal that just out of respect for family members and people who are related to the victims, because this didn't happen that long ago, just out of respect for them, it's just like not public knowledge. Sure. But just to give.

very basic details. The women's orbital sockets were completely crushed. Mrs. Odings' injuries were so significant, her skull was literally internally detached from her C-1, which is your first cervical vertebrae. Over 100 blows were counted, all focused on their faces. And they were beaten so significantly, their ears were starting to become detached. Their teeth were broken, some were missing, and they were almost nearly completely unidentifiable by just looking at them. Oh, my God. Yeah. This is awful. I know. This episode is brought to you by Prime.

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LaSalle County Sheriff's Office argued it was theirs as the murders occurred in their county, while the Illinois State Police argued that it was theirs as the crime occurred on state park property. And just as a aside, I know a lot of people are probably questioning why the FBI was not directly involved originally, because usually when we talk about crimes, at least on our podcast, The FBI is involved because it's on federal land, you know. But at this point in time, it was between the state police and the county sheriff's office. What wasn't up for debate, however, was who was in charge of this whole operation. And that was state attorney Harlan Warren. And he's going to be extremely important for this case. Despite having no formal education solving crimes, it was ultimately him who decided which agency would officially conduct the investigation.

and he landed with the state police as they had more experience investigating higher profile cases. Because at this point in time, especially for this area, the county sheriff's office, law enforcement that were a part of that office, dealt with like bar brawls or livestock theft, like different things. Small town crimes. Exactly. So he's like, we need the most competent that we can have. And that landed with the state police. The next day was Thursday the 17th.

and the cat was completely out of the bag. Word had gotten out about the murders and the sleepy, small, and isolated community was losing their minds. Worried travelers were calling the lodge to cancel their reservations. Everyone was completely scared to death. This is a community that rarely ever locked their doors

and all of a sudden they're flocking to the hardware stores for dead bolts. Sporting good stores, their shelves were completely empty because people cleared out their weapon inventory and their kids were pulled out of school. people didn't even want their kids going to school. That's awful, especially when you see crimes like this, it's horrific and it's horrible for the families and of course the victims involved. But there's such a domino effect of everyone around is affected as well.

I mean, this person ended these people's lives. They ruined families. They ruined dynamics. And then they also took people's safety and comfort away in that same moment of people who weren't even involved initially are now like very intimately involved. because now they're afraid for their own life. Yeah, peace of mind is just ripped away. And, I mean, even from an economic standpoint, the town's economy came to a halt because a lot of it was driven by tourism. Starved Rock State Park is one of the most popular destinations in the entire state and now all of a sudden no one wants to go.

Of course. Law enforcement was quick to begin questioning everyone who worked at or staying at the lodge. They took hair samples from workers, visitors, vendors, truck drivers, and even, the owner's dogs. The owner of the lodge, Nick Spiros, volunteered himself and his 28-year-old son George to be questioned and fingerprinted first, kind of just to set a precedent. At the time, Nick Spiros was among the most influential and powerful businessman in the area, in the county, and he put up a $5,000 reward for information leading to an arrest in the case. And then Lillian, Francis, and Mildred's husbands also joined forces and posted their own reward of $30,000,

which is a lot of money back then, but they're also kind of like, upper middle class families. So they have a lot of money, a lot of influence. Not only was everyone who worked at the lodge questioned, they were given polygraphs. And we are all well aware of how problematic polygraphs are, how there's problems associated with the reliability of this tactic. They aren't admissible in court. But in the initial weeks after the crime, they were given out like candy. They were given out extensively. And everyone who was questioned, including every employee at the Lodge passed. For weeks, state police continued questioning everyone they could find, pressing for information and questioning where people were, their movements, who'd you talk to,

where'd you go, what you do, on the morning and afternoon of Monday the 14th. As the police worked, the media went crazy. While tourists ran from Starved Rock, journalists and media members flocked to it. People from media outlets such as Life magazine and the Chicago Tribune actually booked rooms at the lodge just to be in the thick of the investigation in hopes of obtaining new information as it was unfolding. Newspapers ran headlines and stories throwing out all sorts of gritty details and theories of who or whom was to blame from an escaped mental prisoner to a mafia hit. Several persons of interest rose to the top of the list and their names were thrown around

quite a bit, including George Spiros, who was the son of the lodge owner, and Harold Smoky Rona, but more on them later. As weeks stretched into months of investigation, fear amongst the community grew and pressure on Harland Warren mounted. And just as a reminder, Harland Warren is an attorney. He is not part of law enforcement,

but he was the face of the investigation and he took the brunt of the local pressure to solve this case. The investigation wasn't making much forward momentum or progress, much to the dismay of the frightened public and the grieving Oding, Lundquist and Murphy families. It was also difficult for Warren. Not only was it an extremely violent case, it was the highest profile case in the region's history. The cost of the investigation

was mounting, despite funding problems, and it was an election year. So there was like a lot going, because state attorneys are elected positions. So there's a lot going on for him at this point. Despite not being a trained investigator, he decided to get involved. He poured over the case files and documents they had up until that point and honed in on something particular, twine. The only physical evidence left at the scene that was used to bind the women's wrists. Knowing funding would likely either delay or not allow further investigation into the twine, he took action himself. He purchased a high-quality microscope and analyzed the twine himself, and while looking at the ends of the twine, he counted the number of strands it was made up of and

counted 32. Upon further investigation, it was discovered that the twine was actually two types of twine, 20 ply cord and 12 ply cord, woven together to make it stronger. So obviously, equaling 32 strands. He felt that this was a huge piece of evidence, but he was at an impasse. He couldn't continue looking further into this without drawing the attention from the media, which would have been a huge problem if it was leaked because it could have compromised the case. And he didn't want anyone from the case.

the state's attorney's office looking into it either. So in an effort to be discreet, he selected two detectives from the sheriff's office, Wayne Hess and Bill Dummett. Following the twine hunch, Harland, Hess, and Dummit went to the lodge. After meeting with the kitchen manager, they discovered that the twine was a match for the twine that they used in the kitchen for wrapping food parcels and packages. This 20 ply twine, this 20, obviously there's two types. The 20 ply twine was found in kitchen. And then they went and looked at the records of the supplier who they buy the twine from. And yes, it was purchased through the kitchen. It wasn't like somebody's random twine that isn't associated with the kitchen at all. So now they have this piece of evidence that seemingly ties someone who works

at the lodge or at the very least has access to the lodge's kitchen that somehow this person is involved. Yeah, that sounds like a huge find. Sure does sound like that. But every employee had passed polygraph tests and had been cleared from the suspect list. So this raised- That doesn't mean anything. Yes, I know. I feel like they like, by doing that, by doing a polygraph test that does not prove guilt or innocence, actually was a waste of time. And you're falsely weeding out people who maybe should not be weeded out at all. Or falsely condemning someone. It can go either way. It can go either way. But if everyone, how you said they found everyone past the polygraph. That doesn't really mean anything. Yeah. So remember also, this is 1960. And it's a different time and which we'll get into more as far as like different laws that were not yet in place that we take for granted in the legal system now. But anyways, so polygraphs are going to come up a lot. So get used to them.

I hate polygraphs. So this raised the question of were these tests administered correctly and or, were the results interpreted accurately. Harlan decided to make another bold move on his own. He brought in a specialist from Chicago to conduct more rounds of polygraph testing. Using a small cabin near the lodge, he brought in all the employees again to sit for the test again. A dozen employees had come and gone and were cleared when another young employee sat for his test. He was unassuming, 5'8, and no bigger than 135 pounds.

After it was concluded, the young man going to be able to. got up and walked out of the door. As soon as it shut behind him, the examiner turned to Harland, face pale, as if he had seen a ghost, and said, that's your man. And that man was 21-year-old Chester Otto Weeger. Born in March of 1939, near Derby, Iowa, he was one of six children. He was still a toddler when his family moved to Oldsby, Illinois, into a small two-bedroom home. The home didn't have indoor plumbing, and Chester was left sleeping on the sofa, while his five sisters shared one of the two bedrooms, and his parents had the other.

His parents had jobs. His father worked as a painter, and his mother actually worked at Starved Rock Lodge as a housekeeper. But it wasn't enough to fully rely upon. So they hunted and trapped for animals to eat, and the family relied off of their home garden for different veggies. Chester grew up close with his father, who he learned hunting, trapping, and outdoor skills from.

When he was 12 years old, he was arrested and charged with statutory rape. As the story goes, Chester's younger sister, Mary, had been walking home with a friend. Mary took a turn to head home and the young girl was alone. And from there, she was attacked and raped. And she, just so we know, she was eight years old. Chester had been delivering newspapers nearby and heard the commotion and approached the scene. He was arrested for the crime, but claims that he had found the girl after the assault,

actually helped her get dressed and even lent her a piece of white cloth to place in her underwear to help with bleeding. and then walked her home. He goes even further to say that the girl's father believed his story and actually requested that the police let him go. He said he was told to bleed guilty to the crime, which he did, and was given a pass. The judge sentenced him to a probationary period, and that's kind of the end of that for now.

Also, that's horrible. Yes. If they really believed he did this horrible crime to put someone on probation for eight months. Yeah, right. Whether or not he did it. He would need like intensive therapy and rehabilitation and it just to be like, oh, probation be good after such a horrific crime.

Like there needs to be some follow up. Even if you're a child and did this, which seems really unlikely, but not impossible. Yeah. So. And a lot of these things before every, and I'm going to say it again at the end, but before everyone gets up in arms, especially if you're familiar with this case and you're like, oh, but you didn't. There's a part two, baby. Okay.

Relax. So in school, his classmates described him as somewhat of a loner. He was pretty quiet, reclusive, and mostly kept to himself. And he didn't finish high school, instead going on to serve in the military, earning him the nickname Rocky, which was then tattooed on his arm. As he got older, there was talk around town of him having a troubled marriage, being abusive towards his wife named Joanne, but nothing was ever confirmed. Either way.

At the time of the murders, he was a dishwasher at the lodge, in the kitchen, earning money to support his young family, which consisted of his wife, Joanne, infant son John Wayne, and three-year-old daughter, Rebecca. Chester Weeger's name had been in previous reports, because obviously they had questioned the hell out of everyone in the vicinity of the lodge. But he didn't really make much of an impression on the investigators either way. Like, yes, he was in the paperwork, along with dozens of other people, but they never made really a note of him. And that all changed when he left that small log cabin, that. day after Harlan Warren organized this other polygraph testing session.

The focus of the investigation shifted completely onto Chester and all other inquest into other persons of interest was immediately dropped. Around this time, details began coming to light that further incriminated Chester. Co-workers admitted to seeing blood on his buckskin jacket and scratches on his face the day of the murder. Law enforcement requested to test the jacket to which Chester complied. He gave him the jacket and agreed to more polygraph testing. And I know there's a lot of questioning going on, but to be concise, so because I'm like, oh, this polygraph test and that

one in this session of questioning, it's a lot and there's a lot of different dates. But to be concise, between March 19th, which was three days after the bodies were found, in April 29th, Chester had given six polygraph tests and he passed every one of them. And he didn't ask for a lawyer in this time frame at all? No. He's being completely compliant. He's doing everything that they're asking him to do. They even noted in one of the articles I was reading that he would like ask like, hey, do you guys like want any food drinks? Like, what can I do for you? Like very compliant. Okay. And then so he was given six. He passed them. And then he had this concerning one that the administrator was like, that's him. That's your guy. So back to that test when the administrator said,

that's your man. This occurred in September. So that's where we're at in the time frame. And what month was the murder again? Murders? March. Wow. Okay. So it's been six months. Yeah. I mean, they're really, and at first that it was so slow moving. Like they didn't really have much to go on at all. And there was all this public pressure. And then all of a sudden, this guy is like, that's your guy right there. And now they're like, oh, okay, let's hit him hard. So after this test, he's driven back to. He's driven back to, to town by Sheriff's Dummit and Armstrong. Despite maintaining his innocence throughout all of this questioning, Dummett threatens him several times,

even laughing and saying, you're going to ride the Thunderbolt, referring to the electric chair. They get back to LaSalle at midnight, and instead of bringing him back to his home, they take him straight to the courthouse and continue questioning him for several more hours before finally releasing him.

Shortly after, so now we're in October, the results of the stains on Chester's jacket came back as positive for being human blood. But at the time, through the available forensic testing capabilities that were in place at the time in 1960, they were unable to type it further. So they knew it was human blood, but they didn't know who it belonged to. Chester was immediately put on a 24-hour surveillance and was followed everywhere. He went. And this is because it's kind of like, okay, he was already sketching us out.

He has this weird background. He didn't do good in that polygraph test. and now his jacket has human blood on it. So we're going to tail him everywhere. Yeah. I mean, from everything that's being said, it doesn't sound like it's a bad lead to follow up. But it just, it also feels a little straight. I mean, they're going off a polygraph test, which we know is not great evidence.

But it feels like a good lead given his history and the evidence that they're finding. I'm just not super convinced that this is their person. Well, and also he worked in the kitchen. The twine came from the kitchen. allegedly. So it's, you know, there's a lot that are, it's circumstantial. Let's just say that. But it's, but it's, but it is pointing to him or someone like him. Right. Exactly. And it's about to just get worse for Chester. As he was being tailed, the trio, I call them the trio a lot. And that's Harland, Harland, Dummit and Hess. So the state attorney and the two sheriffs that he hired specifically

to work with him. And also as a side note, and we'll get into it in part two, but he told them he had instructions given to them that they specifically and exclusively report directly to him and no one else. Like if they found anything or whatever, like anything that was involved in the Starbrock case, he needed to hear about first from them. Interesting. Yes, it's interesting. Considering that there's a whole other team of people investigating this. Yeah, it's like they're kind of like, they're not going rogue because they are still very involved in the investigation, but they're definitely doing their own thing a little bit. Mm-hmm.

So as the surveillance is going on, this trio continued to try and dive deeper into Chester's history to see if there's any other incidents in his past or any incidents in the area that could be potentially linked to him. Because this seems like a triple murder brutal like that. It seems like a very from like nothing to that seems kind of a far stretch. Like they're thinking he must be involved in other things. Like someone doesn't just do that. So they're looking for other cases that he could have potentially been involved in but had never been named in before.

And that is when another case from another Illinois State Park came to their attention. A few months prior in 1959, a young woman, she was a teenager, and her boyfriend had been walking in Matheson State Park, which is less than three miles from Starved Rock. It's very close by. They were in that state park when a man approached them. He pulled out a rifle, forced the woman to bind her boy. with Twine, raped the woman all the while rolling a bullet in his mouth. And the crime had gone unsolved up until that point. So he rolling a bullet in his mouth. He literally was sexually assaulting her and had a bullet of the rifle just like he was rolling it in his mouth, like in a sinister

type of way. Yeah. I mean, all of it. Like, yeah. So not they weren't, they weren't killed or physically. The boyfriend wasn't physically harmed. Obviously, the woman was. but he let them go. Yeah, it wasn't the brutal, like, beating stuff that had happened to these other women. Right, but it's very close to Starved Rock. Twine. Twine is involved. And the woman reported it.

She actually told her teacher about it and her teacher urged her to report it to the police. So there was a report on file, but there was no progress in the case. There was no leads. So Dummit contacted the young woman and she agreed to a meeting. And when he presented her with a series of mugshot photos, she pointed to Chester and screamed, and she identified him as her attacker. So this positive eyewitness testimony would have been enough for an arrest warrant in this case, yet Harlan Warren held off on that. 1960, like I mentioned before, was an election year. And rather than taking the risk of arresting Chester and be accused by the defense of having done it just merely as a publicity stunt,

gained the favor of the public during this election year, he held off. Instead, just opting to continue constant surveillance of him. That's Balsy, considering you have an eyewitness who said it was him and he's murdered three women and attacked another. Despite the concern of it being an election year and, you know, having people think that, oh, you're just doing it for the publicity and all that, he lost the election regardless. Good. So with the little time that he had left in office, because he wasn't, you know, he's finishing out his term. Yeah, he sounds sketchy. to me. Honestly, all this sounds so sketchy to me. There's so many questions. So with a little time he had left in office, he was bent on leaning into the starved rock investigation. He kind of wanted to end his

career on a high note. Like I just saw, I, or not I personally, but, you know, like I was involved and leading the investigation and conclusion of one of the highest profile cases in state history. And maybe he wanted to do it because three women had been murdered, too. But it was definitely a factor that it would look good if he was involved. I don't know. The fact that he didn't want to arrest someone after an eyewitness account and the evidence that's piling up because of an election seems like the women are not the forefront of his mind. Yeah. One could say that.

The evidence against Chester was circumstantial, like I said, but Warren was granted an arrest warrant to charge Chester with the 1959 rape case on November 16, 1960. Dumbett and Hess arrived at Chester's home to pick him up, never disclosing that they had an arrest warrant. Instead, they told him they were bringing him in for more questioning. And he agreed when, he was like, okay, if you have more to ask me, sure. And question him, they did. Insistently, starting with the 1959 rape and then moving on into the Starved Rock murders. At this time, they also had him pose in a lineup because before when they were showing the young woman, And it was just a series of individual people's mugshots.

But now they put him in a lineup with other people. And they called in the boyfriend of the woman who was attacked at Matheson State Park. And they asked him to identify out of the lineup if the attacker was there. And he immediately identified Chester as the perpetrator. So not looking great. And this was the start of an all night long interrogation using the read technique. Created by a man named John Reed, polygraph expert and former Chicago police officer, this technique is known for creating a high-pressure environment for the interviewee,

followed by sympathy and offers of understanding and help, but only if a confession is forthcoming. So it's kind of like, good cop, bad cop, just be, like, tell us what we need to know, and we'll help you out. Yeah, exactly. Nearing 2 a.m., he abruptly stopped answering all questions, still maintaining his innocence, and requested to see his family. His parents were sent for and arrived to the courthouse shortly thereafter.

After having some alone time with his family, according to Detective Hess's later testimony, Hess turned to Chester and said, Chester, why don't you just tell me about it? There's only two of us here. And it was then that Chester faced Hess and said, all right, I did it. After 24 hours of interrogation, at no point communicating to Chester that he was under arrest, reading him his rights or asking if he would like an attorney present, Chester confessed,

which authorities immediately transcribed, printed out, and had Chester sign. According to his confession, the version of events went like this. So I'm tried to, his confession, I also read the transcript of, and it's very long, but I tried to condense it the best I could. Chester was walking near St. Louis Canyon when he spotted the three women. He noticed that one of the women had a strap over her shoulder and he assumed that it was a purse. He approached the tree. and attempted to grab the strap to steal this woman's purse, but it turned out to be the strap of binoculars.

The strap broke, and a verbal altercation took place between him and the women. Chester started walking away when he was struck by something. Binoculars or the camera, he couldn't be sure. But it stunned him for a second. The woman, who he kept referring to in his confession as the youngest one, yet we can't really be sure who he was actually referring to, and there was a lot of confusion as to which woman he was referring to a lot. But this woman that struck him was yelling at him. You won't get away

with this. My husband is on the police force. So now it's a physical altercation. They're yelling at him. He's yelling back. Someone hit him. It's a whole thing. So he then ordered the women to walk down the trail a little bit towards the frozen waterfall. He followed behind them as they complied. They were kind of whispering and murmuring amongst each other. Did he have a weapon? No. He ordered them to sit down so that he could tie them up. But he promised that he would let them go. And he explained to the women he wanted to tie them up so he could get away before they had time to go back and report what happened. And even in his confession, he said he told the woman he wasn't from around there. So he wanted time to get away, which obviously is a lie because he is from around there. He went on to describe how he tied them up with twine that he was

carrying in his pocket. He wanted to tie the twine tight, but didn't want to cut off their circulation. So he must not have tied it tight enough because one of the women got loose and ran after him as he was walking away, ran after him and attacked him again. He reached down to find a log sticking out of the snow and used it to strike the woman knocking her out. They were about 75 feet away from the other women at this point and he said he firemen carried her back to the other two and placed her back down next to the other two women who were now starting to wriggle out of their bindings themselves. and trying to fight with him, scratching and kicking at him, trying to escape. They just saw him knock out their friend. And he just tied them up. So this is when he said he started to strike them, knocking them out.

And then he started to panic because he's like, well, I think I killed that first woman. Like, I think she's dead. And now these other two are going to be able to positively identify me. So that's when, according to this confession, he starts to beat them repeatedly over and over. killing all three of them. And then at this point, he wants to, he wants to get out of there, but he hears and sees a small aircraft, a red and white aircraft that's flying around the area and low. Like, it's not like a commercial airplane. It's just a small aircraft. And he's worried that the pilot or any passengers that are on that plane would spot the scene, especially because it's

pretty brutal and it's on white snow and it's obviously a horrific scene. He described, that he then made the decision to drag the bodies up into that little cave near the frozen waterfall so that they're out of sight from the pilot. And from there, he described, he decided to stage the bodies to look like it was a rape. Because remember, half their clothes are pulled down, their spread eagle. It describes them kind of looking like they're making a snow angel, which is really a weird juxtaposed two images. He then makes his way back to the lodge. rinses off his hands and his Levi's in the creek before he arrived back at work around 4.30 p.m. He never changed his clothing.

And he ran into coworkers. I mean, he went to work. And he remembers the chef remarking about a small bruise on his face saying, what the hell did he run into a box car? But Chester explained it away by saying he kind of just bumped into a medicine cabinet. He worked his shift and went home. And that is kind of like the SparkNotes version of this confession. And this confession occurred at 2 a.m. after almost 24 hours of questioning.

And the next morning, which was, or well, technically that morning, was November 18th. By 7.30 in the morning, he was shackled up, put on a long lead like chain, and led by police down to the canyon where he was ordered to reenact his crime. What? And this was in front of not just law enforcement, but photography. reporters, members of the media, there was a whole crowd there. This is so weird. I mean, it's in 1960s, and I know he keeps saying things are different, but this is just such a weird way to handle a case.

And the first thing I'm thinking of is that if you have photos of him committing the crime, like pretending to commit the crime and you show that to a jury. And it's the media. It's not even before he goes to trial. It's like the media is there. This guy's literally in shackles on a chain led by. police reenacting brutally killing people like the police would literally lay down and be like okay then what did you do to them and he would act it out like i know everything you're saying so far it sounds

like he did it but you also have a part too so i'm just kind of playing devil's advocate here of this this case is going horribly wrong especially if he did do it all of this stuff i know is very like this will get a whole i feel like i'm not a i'm not an attorney i'm not a professional here but i feel like handling a case in the way that it's being handled could get this entire thing thrown out. It sure could. Especially if he really did do it, then you're really messing things up right now. Well, that's the thing. And that's the thing that makes it so crazy because I'm just going to say right now, I mean, even after weeks of research and you'll see, it's just there are so many questions.

And I really don't even know how to feel. Even after, I know I'm kind of setting this up in a way that it's like, maybe you didn't do it. But it's like, the questions will still remain of like, what the fuck? You know, like... Yeah, I'm already. What the fuck? Yeah. But already, whether or not he did do it, you said it perfectly.

It's like, it's just being mishandled. And whether or not he's guilty or innocent, there's a lot of things. And it just gets worse from here. Perfect. So the news that Chester was the man responsible, or at least that law enforcement was pinning as responsible, came as a surprise to a lot of people, especially his family, of course. But even the lodge owner, Nick Spiros, was taken aback by the news, as well as several of his different co-workers. One lodge employee, even went on record, her name was Victoria Hobnick.

She made a statement to the attorney's office saying that she knew Chester really well, and he was a reserved, ordinary young man. He was always a gentleman, and sometimes she would give him rides back to his house. And he would offer to pay her when she would do that, despite having a really young family at home and living in near poverty. he was still willing to compensate her, do the right thing, type of thing. And not to say that bad people can do good things, you know, I'm just saying this is people's opinions of him at this time. Yeah. And as a reminder, all of this has happened without Chester having access to any counsel of any kind.

Which is also wild. Within 24 hours of his confession, he was finally able to meet with a court-appointed attorney and almost immediately recanted his entire confession, stating that he was innocent of all charges brought against him. He made statements that said he was threatened during multiple interrogations and that his confession was coerced. And confession that included several details, such as the plane that we'll get into later, that were fed to him by detectives prior to his confession. Chester pleaded not guilty in the triple murder and official court proceedings began in January of one after a two-week jury selection process.

John McNamara was appointed as his defense attorney and Robert Richardson and Anthony Rukhlia, who was 26 years old at the time and fresh out of law school, were the prosecution team. Despite neither attorney ever being involved in a murder case prior to this one. So it's like, jump right in, fellas. Like, this is good luck. Yeah, good luck. And they did something interesting. So they moved forward with their case on only one of the.

the murders for Lillian's murder, not all three women. And it was controversial at first, but it's extremely strategic if you think about it. So they were thinking that if this trial ended somehow in a mistrial or acquittal based on, I don't know, maybe a forced confession or something of that nature, they would be able to bring additional charges in the future for the other two women. Like, because they're preparing for how they've mishandled the case already. And they're like, we'll just charge you with one in case it doesn't go well. so we can recharge you for essentially the same crime, but for a different woman, for a different woman and then be able to repeat it if, you know, like they were planning ahead in case things

didn't go their way, which is super strategic. But it's also concerning when you're like, well, so you're not confident that. And also for the families, the families of the women who are not, he's not being charged for. It's like, okay, their deaths don't matter. We're only doing one person. I'm sure they communicated it to them in a way that was like this is, it's a way to ensure that he is held responsible in some way. Yeah. And I'm sure it was communicated, but still, I mean, yeah, psychologically, that that stings for the families. And they also argued for the death penalty in this case as well. The trial went on for months, which I will touch upon in greater detail in part two. But on March 3rd, 1961, which was Chester's 22nd birthday, the jury, the

jury declared him guilty of murder of Lillian Oding and sentenced him to life in prison. The death penalty was abandoned due to the reluctance of some of the jurors, which we'll also get into. And just as kind of like, just to tie up the rape charge from 1959 since that was involved in the beginning, that was dismissed because by law, once you're arrested for something, if you're not tried within a four-month period of being arrested, like the case is dismissed. So they never pursued that at all. That's a very odd law.

It's very interesting. But it's also interesting. It's like, okay, if you're so sure that this guy did it, you had two people, the two victims come forward and name him or at least point him out. They're like, this is him, this is him. And then you don't do anything about it is odd as well. Yeah. It's very odd.

It's like, yes, there's president. There's a triple murder versus, like, if you have to put it on scales, obviously, I feel like that a triple murder is a little more pressing. But it's just a little interesting detail. as the years passed and Chester, Prisoner 48223, remained in the Illinois State Penitentiary in Joliet. Joliet? Illinois people are going to come out. Illinois people are coming after me. I think it's Joliet. I don't know. I think it's Joliet. Let's just leave it at that. If you're pronouncing everything wrong, please everyone go list off some Massachusetts towns and some New Hampshire towns.

It just. Rebuttal. It kills me because it's like it does like because I. I've been there. You know, I've been a listener. I listen to like 15 podcasts every week on rotation. And people mispronounce things that I'm like, it's fucking Worcesterhire. You know, but. Worcestershire. Not Worcestershire sauce or whatever. But it's just now being on the other end of it, it's like, I just spent two and a half weeks of my life researching this and someone's going to be like, you're stupid. It's Joliet or whatever. Just saying we're ready to fight. I'm fucking ready. Okay. Gloves are coming off for Joliet.

Like literally this morning I woke up and my first thought was like the names in this case like ringing in my head. You know, just when you put so much time into something, it's just your brain. That's all I can think about for a while. Anyways, okay, we're almost done. So he's in the state penitentiary. State penitentiary. Now I can't pronounce penitentiary. Penit.

What is it? Now you're confusing me. State penitentiary. State penitentiary. Yeah, he was there. And I'm losing it. The community was completely divided regarding Chester Weaker's guilt or innocence. And that had kind of been present at the start of this.

But as time went on, that rift just deepened and widened. As more and more questions regarding the case in the trial gained traction, Chester maintained his innocence, never waving from it after his original confession recant. So the only time he ever admitted guilt was during that confession. He even penned an autobiography in 1963 and gave it to the Chicago Tribune in hopes that the media would get out word of his innocence. He first requested parole in 1972 and then again and again and again and again. During each request, members of the Murphy, Oding, and Lindquist families attended the hearings, lending their voices to keeping Chester in prison, while Chester's family, mainly his sister and biggest supporter,

Mary, were there to speak on his behalf. 23 times in a row. The Illinois Prisoner Review Board denied his freedom. Oh my God. While giving an interview to CBS 2's John Drummond, Chester maintained what he had since the 1960s, that he was not involved. When Drummond, this interviewer, asked Chester why he didn't show remorse, he even asked him, hey, say you did it, even if you didn't, and just get out. Show remorse. Like, what,

what is the hold up here? Like, why are you doing this? Yeah. Weeger replied, why should I feel remorse if I never killed them? I mean, I feel sorry for the people being dead, but I'm not going to admit that I done something I never done. Chester's parents died while he was in prison. His wife, Joanne, passed away as well, and that left their two children without any parents. Chester felt as if his entire life had been stolen from him, but remained adamant against his involvement in the triple murder, despite the years and the pressure to show remorse. November of 2019 arrived his 24th attempt at parole, and this time, the Illinois Prisoner Review Board voted 9 to 4, granting Chester Weeger his freedom. After nearly six decades in prison, Illinois's longest serving inmate at the age of

83, Chester Weeger was released on parole on February 21st of 2020. While he may have been out of prison, the conviction remained on his record. He was still known as the starved rock killer. At 83 years old, it seems as if Chester Weger's fight to clear his name was just beginning. And that is where I will leave for part one. All right. Well, you convinced us that was him the whole episode and now you left us with maybe it's not him and he's fighting against it literally his entire life. So he went to prison. He was sentenced to prison on his 22nd birthday and he got out when he was 83 years old. Wow. Well, a lot of the evidence points that it was him. So I don't know if I am sad for him for that or if I if it wasn't him then obviously that's horrible. But if it was him, then it's horrible that he's

out. Exactly my thoughts. And like I mentioned, I watched the documentary series on this. So that's called The Starved Rock Murders. And it's on HBO. It's a three-part docu series. And it's interesting because the documentary had, you know, any documentary has several people involved from directing to producing. There's like, you know, hundreds of people who play a part. Of course. But the main concept was actually first started in the early 2000s. And this new series that kind of piggybacks on that a original concept that there's footage of the original documentary in there, but it was kind of like reworked and revamped. That original series was led by a man named David Rukhulia. And if that name sounds familiar, the last name, David is the son of the case's original prosecutor,

the one that originally sent Chester to prison. Oh, interesting. And David grew up, like hearing, you know, Chester Wigger is the boogeyman. Like, he is evil. And his dad, his dad's arguably one of the biggest cases of his dad's career was the triumph of putting him away in prison. And he grew up learning. It's just like everyone else in the area, like Chester Weger brutally murdered three people. And then as time went on and things start coming up that we'll get into in part two, he, even he, the son of the prosecutor, was kind of like, huh, maybe this deserves a second look. And you'll see throughout the documentary that, like, there's, his dad passed away, I believe in 2019, but there's a ton of original footage because he started this project years ago of interviewing his dad. And you can see there's like this strife of like the dad being like, why are you doing this? Like, Chester Rieger is guilty. Like, why are you digging all this up and causing a stir? Like, I put away a guilty man. And it's very interesting. And there's a lot.

It sounds it. There's a lot going on. And then the other main source that I used, which has all the links online to all the original documents and stuff, it's called the Andy Hale podcast led by Andy Hale. And so interestingly, he's a civil rights attorney and he does a lot of work with like the Innocence Project and repealing false convictions and things like that. And Chester is currently his client. And he co-hosts this podcast with a woman named Whitney Braun, who's a medical school professor, and she is also the supervising producer of the Starved Rock Murder docu series on HBO. A lot of ties in here, a lot of links. There's a lot of things, and the podcast website, like I said, has dozens of the original court documents. And it's just so interesting because the HBO series, even though it presents questions of like, is he guilty?

Is he not? I finished that personally thinking that he's guilty. Even though there's questions, I'm like, God, there's just a lot that ties him to it. even though it raises a lot of questions. Yeah. But then reading all these court documents and listening to this other podcast, which obviously he's a civil rights attorney, Chester's his client. It's kind of like, God, there's so much that it's like maybe he didn't.

Or even if he was involved, I don't know. There's a lot going on. Well, us as listeners, we don't even know half of this information yet. So we're going to have to hang out till next week and make our own decisions on what we think. Yeah, sure. Well. So I guess we'll, and I'm so sorry to do this, but I know there's an episode coming out on Thursday. It's not going to be part two. You're going to have to wait till next Monday.

Yeah. Sorry. We're keeping these Monday episodes. So that's okay. Gives you something to look forward to next week. That's right. So we'll see you next time. In the meantime, enjoy the view. But watch you're back. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale or story suggestion, send us an email at Stories at NPADPodcast.com.

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