National Park After Dark - The Fight for Native Lands - The Leonard Peltier Story: Badlands National Park

Episode Date: November 24, 2025

In honor of National Native American Heritage Month, we venture into Badlands National Park, where a 1975 shootout on the Pine Ridge Reservation left two FBI agents and an activist dead. Leonard Peltier, convicted on questionable evidence and finally released after 49 years, insists his only crime was “being an Indian.” This is a story of defiance, injustice, and the complex fight for Native lands and sovereignty.For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to the week’s partners!Soul:  Take advantage of Soul’s Black Friday-Cyber Monday deal now! For a limited time, get 40% off at GetSoul.com and use code NPAD.Uncommon Goods: Use our link to get 15% off your next gift.BetterHelp: National Park After Dark is sponsored by BetterHelp. Get 10% off.Cash App: Download Cash App Today: [https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/ejy661fu] #CashAppPod. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. See terms and conditions at https://cash.app/legal/us/en-us/card-agreement. Direct Deposit, Overdraft Coverage and Discounts provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit http://cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. For so many people in the United States, indigenous communities are still imagined as characters from an old Western film. Cowboys and Indians, feathers and horses, campfire legends, hauntings, and museum displays. They are often spoken about as if they belong only to the past, as if the first peoples of this land disappeared

the second the frontier was declared conquered. But indigenous communities are not a faded part of American folklore. More than 200 million indigenous people continue to live on their ancestral lands across the world today. They are among the most endangered, human populations on earth, yet they remain the most vital protectors of the natural world. Indigenous knowledge reflects thousands of years of sustainable land stewardship. These communities have shaped practices rooted in balance, respect, and survival.

They cultivate crops built for hard climates. They manage water and care with precision. They build homes that work with the land, not against it. Forests, coastlines, and wildlife thrive under their guidance. Today, indigenous management. managed lands include a staggering portion of the planet's remaining intact ecosystems. They protect biodiversity, store vast amounts of carbon, and provide proven solutions to our changing climate. Despite this, the original people of what is now the United States are too

often treated as if their story ended long ago. However, the truth is more upsetting. The violence that began centuries ago never truly stopped. It simply changed forms. Instead of battles, on open plains, there is systemic poverty. Instead of forced marches, there's food scarcity, limited health care, and some of the lowest life expectancies in the country. Voices that advocate for sovereignty and survival are silenced through surveillance, imprisonment, and political pressure. This is not ancient history. These injustices are ongoing. They exist alongside us in our own lifetimes. Today, we are telling one of those stories. A story rooted in survival, sovereignty, and the fight to be recognized as living, breathing nations with a future

worth defending. Welcome to National Park After Dark. Hello everyone and welcome back to National Park After Dark. My name is Danielle. And I'm Cassie. Welcome if you're new here. And this is the perfect extension of my episode last week. Yeah.

It truly is. We didn't fully, I mean, we planned similar themes, but I feel like they compliment each other very well. Yeah. It was totally unintentional as far as how it came all out in the wash. But I'm really glad that you're doing a more current story because mine was based in 1877. And I think that based on your intro, this one is newer. So I'm really excited to hear this story today, especially because all I know is it's in

and around the Badlands and you have been dying to do a story there for years. Yes. I really have ever since we went to the Badlands in what was that, 2000? Yeah. Yeah. Ever since we went there then, I'm like, I need to do a story here. But I've been trying to find one that was one worth telling, but two, I really wanted to make it indigenous based just because that location itself is just so rich with indigenous history. And not that I was struggling to find a story because there are a lot, but I just, I really felt inspired by this one. Okay. And so it felt like it was time to bring it to the table. And I just, I really wanted to talk about. Badlands National Park because we've said it many times on the podcast, but I really think it's one of the more underrated ones where people just don't, people don't give it the attention it deserves because it's so, so, so beautiful. Yeah, I agree. Well, today we are diving into a story. Like you said, it is more recent. And we'll get into the exact timelines of this. But this is very much an ongoing thing, which isn't something that we normally talk about on the podcast as often. A lot of this is in the past, but it continues. onto as you're hearing this today. It's still a conversation that's happening and ongoing. So today we are diving into the story of Leonard Peltier, an indigenous man wrongly imprisoned for a violent shootout on Pine Ridge Reservation that led to the death of two federal agents.

Despite no evidence of his guilt, he was given two life sentences. And like I said, if this sounds like a story of the past, you would be very wrong. Because Leonard's sentence was just recently commuted in February of 2025. So if you're listening when this comes out of this year. Wow. Okay. You weren't kidding. So it's very, very recent.

And this was after serving nearly 50 years in prison. And even though his life sentence has been commuted and he is currently out, the story is not over. And there's a lot more to it. And there's a lot of it that this story was recognized around the world. But still, it remains untold, I think, to a vast majority of. the public. So I just wanted to really dive into exactly what happened with the shootout, why he was convicted, what happened for his imprisonment, how it was commuted, like everything. This story has so

much to it that I really wanted to do a deep dive into it. Well, I am one of those people among the general public who was completely unaware of the story at all. I've never heard of it or any part of it. I saw it in headlines back in February. I would say, day when he was released. But I remember reading an article and that was it. And it was, I mean, it was like a four-minute article. And this was something that transpired over 50 years of time. So there's a lot, a lot of information here that I had no idea and a lot of atrocities that were committed to this person that I thought was important to highlight. But before we dive into the story, I do want to just start right off the bat by saying I have two book recommendations because I think

people should just write them down. Just take out your pen and paper. Yep. Yeah. Get ready. Or a pencil if you're like that. Yeah, or your notes on your iPhone, whatever it is, write it down. When's the last time you used a pencil? Actually, very recently. What?

When? For what? So I use it for, we're renovating the bathroom and I use a pencil to write out a lot of stuff. And I used it to too because I was drawing, I was doodling. I bought like a little sketchpad and I've been doodling at night instead of watching TV. Oh, very nice. Very nice that you do that separately from watching TV. Yeah.

Because you could totally do both at the same time. I've been trying to limit my screen time, honestly. I put, so I didn't know this. Fun fact, if other people don't know this. But on your iPhone, you can limit your screen time specific to apps and to your phone in general, where it will shut down your entire phone after a certain amount of time you've been spending on it. So I was noticing that my screen time was like crazy. It was like seven hours, six, seven hours a day.

I was like, this is insane. So I put a limit on my phone to four hours. And if I use it for a second over four hours, my entire phone says, dirt off, you can't use this anymore. You can bypass it if you need to. But I try not to do that. And it does it for literally every single thing. Like if I go on Google and I type in, what's the weather tomorrow? The results will come up. Like, as this is restricted, you're, you've done. So you have to press it every single time you go to anything. So it's like really hard to use. Nice. Yeah, I have, I only have my Instagram set for 45 minutes a day. I have my timer on that. But I've been really tempted to buy the brick. Have you heard of that? No. It's a little square device that essentially you scan and you can basically lock certain things by scanning it. It locks your preference of whatever on your phone. So you can still have your phone next to you. And if you want, want to receive text, that's fine or whatever, but you can select what is blocked. And it basically bricked. So if you're researching or writing or doing whatever and you just don't want any distractions, but you still want to be able to have your phone near you, then you can brick it. And you can only access that stuff again once you go and unbrick and unscan it. And so some people are like, I do that and then give like my partner or whatever the bricks. So I literally can't. do anything with it. I mean, it would be a big practice of self-control because I don't have anyone

to like force it on me. But it's a cool idea. I mean, the iPhone kind of has something like that built in because you can specifically pick which apps you're turning off. And I guess I don't know, I don't think you can do it like right now I'm turning all this off. But like I said, you could limit it to an hour. You could limit your phone to 45 minutes if you want. And I have my text messages that are still accessible so I can still text and talk to people. But as far as doom scrolling or like just looking at things on my phone, even my photos and everything, camera, everything is like you can't use your phone after. Completely shut down. Yep. Nice. It's been very helpful. Yeah. Okay. Book recommendations. Book recommendations. Anyway,

back to that. So Leonard actually wrote his own book that he titled Prison Writings, My Life is a Sundance, where he details what happened the day of the shootout. And he also details the pride that he feels as an indigenous person, but also the struggles that he has very obviously had because of it. And he also speaks very candidly about how his people and himself are victims of land grabs for mining and for corporate greed. But he also really points out about how we as a whole, our whole country, is victims to this because our water has been polluted, our air is polluted.

and it really just talks about how we should all be upset about it. But he really just dives into, you can tell and you can feel in it, his anger, but also he's very forgiving as well. It's an interesting, hearing his point of view is really interesting because he describes the atrocities done to him during his prison time. It is written before he is released as well. So a lot of it is a fight to get him released. And yeah, I just thought it was really moving.

and I thought it was important to read his perspective because he has a lot of, he says right at the beginning of the book. You might have heard my story before, but you've never heard it like this because there's also another book. And this one is called The Spirit of Crazy Horse by Peter Amatheson. And it's the story of Leonard. And he dives into the Pine Ridge Reservation, the history behind it. And he really goes into the legality of everything that happened surrounding his trial and his imprisonment and the shootout. And he does a really big deep dive on his whole story. So you kind of get two perspectives.

You get kind of the nuance of the U.S. government and everything that was happening and everything surrounding the trial and his imprisonment. But then you also get the firsthand account of what it was like to live through it. And then you're also going to get this episode. And then I'm also going to tell this story. So if you're really, really interested, there are two really good books. And also another note for this book, The Spirit of Crazy Horse, I wrote this down because I really wanted to let people know this. So it was actually pulled from the shelves for almost a decade because the government sued for libel.

And a lot of powerful political figures and federal agents didn't want the books on the shelves. It was ultimately deemed that they had no say in that, that it was impeding on free speech. and it eventually got released back on the shelves and it turned into a bestseller. So this was a book. You know that's juicy. Yeah. I was like if the government does not want this out there, I want to read it. Anytime the government's trying to shut something down, I'm markedly more interested immediately.

And maybe that's why I became a bestseller too because people were like, hold on, what is the government not wanting us to hear? So that I just thought was another reason that you should check out this book because there was a point in time where the government tried to. to silence it. Girl, winter is so last season. And now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress.

Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Well, with all this in mind, let's first dive into where this all took place, which was the Pine Ridge Reservation, which is a part of Badlands National Park, and of course one that I've been dying to cover on the podcast. The land known today as Badlands National Park draws in visitors from around the world.

In Lakota, Makosika, meaning Badland, though the Oglala, who traveled and prey here long before boundaries were drawn, it was a sacred expanse, a spiritual landscape tied to. to creation and to ceremony. Stripe Buttes stand across 24,000 acres of mixed grass prairie and rugged formations in western South Dakota. The sun bakes the clay and shale into shifting pallets of rust, gold, and gray. It's home to one of the world's richest fossil beds, coyotes, bald eagles, big horn sheep, and more. Badlands National Park is traditionally divided into the north unit and the south unit, which is

also known as the Stronghold District. The entire Stronghold District lies within the Piney, Ridge Indian Reservation, one of the largest reservations in the United States, spanning more than 3,500 square miles across southwestern Dakota and northwestern Nebraska. It is Oglah Sioux Tribe Land, held in trust by the federal government, but managed through a cooperative agreement between the tribe and the National Park Service. The two entities have worked together for years to decide the future of this district, including discussions of making it the first tribal national park. This region is home to the stronghold table, believed to be the site of the last ghost dance of the 19th century.

During the ghost dance ceremony, participants famously wore spiritual garments carefully stitched and dyed red and yellow. They believed these ghost shirts, as they were called, would repel rifle bullets. They chanted and swayed all night until they collapsed from exhaustion. And in December of 1890, nearly a thousand Oglala Lakota facing desperation and hunger gathered at the Stronghold, hoping this purely religious right would restore their lands and bounty. The U.S. government, however, used the ghost dance as a pretext to send in troops. This led to the military confrontation that resulted in the wounded knee massacre later that month where approximately 200 Lakota were massacred by heavily armed U.S. soldiers. Young Lakota men still come to places like

Sheep Mountain and Stronghold Table to fast, to pray, and to seek visions for their paths their lives will take. Prioritize and bright reds, yellows and blues can be seen dangling from branches across the open prairie. The contrast of spiritual tradition against the remnants of military use in this park is stark. Portions of the land were once seized and turned into an aerial bombing range by the United States during World War II. Even today, old military explosives remained buried beneath the soil in some of these areas. A short distance southwest of the park lies Wounded Knee Creek, We're in 1890, United States soldiers massacred around the 200 Lakota men, women, and children. To the northwest, the car faces of four presidents at Mount Rushmore, stare down from the Black Hills, known to the Lakota as Paa Sapa, the heart of everything that is.

And if you tuned into my most recent episode about the Black Hills, we talked to really end up about that. So we're kind of right back in that region. A few weeks ago now. Yeah. Yeah, I guess not most recent episode, but a recent-ish. It was here in this location and this history-filled region that Leonard Peltier would become one of the most polarizing figures in modern indigenous activism and the American criminal justice system. Leonard Peltier was born on September 12th, 1944 in Grand Forks, North Dakota. He had several names given to him, Leonard, meaning lionhearted, wins chases the sun, and he leads the people, which he later uses in his confinement.

as his wishes for freedom and also his will to lead people in his life. His father, Leo Peltier, was mostly Chippewa with some French heritage, and his mother, Alvina, carried both Dakota Sioux and Chippewa ancestry. Leonard was enrolled in the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians, and after his parents separated when he was four years old, Leonard and his sister, Betty Ann, went to live with their paternal grandparents on the Turtle Mountain Reservation near Belcourt, North Dakota. Their log cabin did not have electricity or running water, but it held the warmth of tradition. His grandmother taught him songs and stories.

His grandfather taught him the skills to live off the land. Those early years shaped his identity in ways he carried into adulthood. However, tragedy struck when his grandfather died of pneumonia when Leonard was only eight years old, leaving his grandmother with three small children and hardly any income. They lived in extreme poverty, relying on a small military pension his father received from his service in World War II. When his grandmother tried to get help from the government, Leonard, his sister, and cousin were removed from his grandmother's custody. Instead, they were sent to Wapitin Indian School, a Bureau of Indian Affairs boarding schools in North Dakota. It was a place designed with a

singular purpose. Remove the Indian from the Indian. He remained there for three years until 1956. Peltier considers the boarding school his first imprisonment. Upon arrival, his long hair was cut short. He was stripped and showered and sprayed with DDT, which if you remember from my DDT So Safe You Can Eat It episode, DDT is a very toxic pesticide that eventually was tied to cancer and also the near decimation of many avian species, which when I read that, I was like, they sprayed you with DDT. Didn't you say that in the commercials they did that or something? Oh no, they ate it in soup or something. But in the commercials, they showed it like spraying your dog with it and like spraying kids with it and stuff. Yeah.

It's weird. Weird. But he found the rules there more restrictive than actual prison later in life. He recalls that this was even worse. Beatings were regular for minor rule violations. However, even as a young boy, he resisted. Joining a group they called the resistors, they would sneak behind the gymnasium to talk in their traditional language, sing songs, and offer. prayers. If they were caught, however, they were brutally beaten. After returning home, he lived with

his father, still in a log cabin with no electricity or running water, surviving on a meager $55 monthly military benefit. During this time, the Eisenhower administration was enforcing the termination policy aimed at eradicating reservations like the Turtle Mountain Chippewa. The government cut off food commodities and social services to pressure people to leave. Leonard recalls the despair, including his Ojibwe cousin asking in an emotional tearfield voice, where are our warriors? Why don't they stand up and fight for their starving people? This question was a revelation for Leonard,

leading him to vow to become a warrior and fight for his own people. By the 1960s, indigenous activism surged nationwide. Tribal nations demanded treaty rights, civil rights, and sovereignty. In Minnesota, the American Indian movement, aka A.A. A.m., emerged and quickly spread across the country. A. Members stood against police brutality, demanded accountability for federal promises, and reclaimed visibility in a society that preferred indigenous people to remain invisible. I wonder if it's been a number of years now. So I would have to double check. But do you remember my episode I did about Alcatraz and reclaiming? I titled it Reclaiming the Rock and it was all about

the indigenous occupation of Alcatraz. Yes. I wonder if it was, I feel like it was around this time. It was. Actually, in his book, he talks a lot about it. Look at that. Another connection. I loved that episode. If people are wanting, you know, a different take on Alcatraz, I think any time we hear that word, we're just like immediately our mind flashes to a spooky prison. Or prison breaks. Yeah. And this is a completely different chapter in its history that is so completely fascinating that I knew nothing about before I covered that topic. Same. So it's back there somewhere in the catalog. Yeah, you'll find it. Just type in that title. But he does talk about that time because it was during the same time frame. And Leonard actually joined the aim front. He wanted to be a member and he wanted to help participate in the fight for indigenous rights and what they were searching for. He participated in efforts to defend fishing rights in the Pacific Northwest and protested the injustice's native communities faced in cities and reservations alike. He was part of the occupation at Seattle's Fort Lawton in 1970. The land that had been abandoned by the military, but local indigenous leaders argued it should rightfully be returned to native people. The action

helps secure the creation of Daybreak Star Indian Cultural Center, a space for community, culture, and education. In 1972, Leonard traveled with A M.M. members on the Trail of Broken Treaties, a cross-country caravan to Washington, D.C., to deliver a 20-point proposal for indigenous self-determination. When government officials refused to meet, protesters occupied the Bureau of Indian Affairs Building seeking to force the long overdue conversations. And this was kind of, this was a pretty repetitive story in his life where he was just going to wherever advocacy was needed. And he was very, very vocal about his views and in fighting for the indigenous people. However, the most volatile chapter of conflict began soon after on Pine Ridge Reservation, where political divisions and federal involvement fueled a period, many call the reign of terror. Between 1973

and 1976, more than 60 indigenous people were murdered or disappeared on Pine Ridge. Most deaths were never investigated, and the guardians of Aglala Nation, known as goons, acted as a paramilitary force under the authority of the tribal chairman Richard Wilson, targeting anyone who opposed him, including the traditional citizens and American Indian movement supporters. Wilson, who was notorious for his corruption and violence on the reservation, supported the goon squad along with the FBI, while they carried out drive-by shootings, beatings, arson attacks on elders' homes, and even outright killings.

The FBI, Bureau of Indian Affairs Police, and the United States Marshals expanded their presence dramatically at Pine Ridge, increasing the tensions between the local people and AIM. Before 1973, only a handful of FBI agents were stationed in South Dakota. after Ames occupation in 1973 of Wounded Knee, more than 50 arrived and stayed there. Leonard and others on the ground viewed the spike in violence as directly connected to federal involvement. It was obvious that when federal power moved in, indigenous bodies fell. Some believe that the federal government had special interests in Pine Ridge Reservation because of their natural resources,

specifically an untouched large sum of uranium that was on the land. In the summer of 1975, elders from Pine Ridge, terrified by the violence at the hands of the goon squad, asked for AIMS support to protect families living under the constant threat. Leonard joined a group of fewer than 20 AIM members who set up spiritual encampment at the remote jumping bull property. They brought rifles because they believed, without them, women and children would be easy victims. And it sounds like essentially what they did is they also set up camp. They lived in tents right on the property and were protecting them from these goon squads that were coming in and pretty. participating in drive-by shootings and because all these women and children and families were essentially defenseless and had no one there. So they were just kind of there to try and safeguard

them and prevent anything from happening. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. On the morning of June 26, 1975, what began a very quiet day on jumping pole property quickly turned. Leonard Peltier slept late after a storm that previous night, and when he awoke in his tent, He heard laughter and the sound of women cooking, and it felt like this rare moment of calm and peace on the property, but it was very short-lived.

Shortly after, a red suburban drove onto the property. Behind the wheel was a 19-year-old named Jimmy Eagle. The previous night, Eagle had gotten into a fight, and a pair of used cowboy boots had been reported missing. At worst, it was just this petty matter, but it had drawn law enforcement's attention. In a place where tensions were already simmering, even small things were. just blown out of proportion. What happened next has been recounted many different ways, but the timeline of the next few minutes is among the most intensely scrutinized in modern federal criminal history. This part is just, there's all sorts of things that are being said of what happened,

but I tried to put together what is mostly believed how it unfolded, but I'll go into the different stories as we go along of what other people are saying. Okay. Two unmarked cars entered the pasture below the houses a short time after Eagle arrived. These were FBI vehicles driven by agents Jack Kohler and Ronald Williams. They did not identify themselves to families watching from windows. Instead, they parked below the bluff, weapons and radios with them, and they began to move. Suddenly, a single crack split the air. The first seconds of gunfire are some of the most disputed in the entire case. The FBI has long argued that their agents were suddenly ambushed by rifle fire. But a key witness, Angie Long Visitor, saw something very different. When she heard what sounded like firecrackers,

she stepped outside her home on the bluff to see two white men by the FBI cars. One man was already kneeling and firing a handgun uphill in the direction of her house and the families around it. The other was removing a long gun from the trunk. Startled and terrified, she grabbed her children and she ran. Down in the pasture, nearly the same moment, the agents were under fire. Whether the gunshots came first, from the hangum from them or from indigenous people is totally has been an argument that stands to this day. But what happened basically is you heard fire and then suddenly it was a shootout. What is known with certainty is that when special agent Ronald Williams lifted his radio microphone, the gunfight was already underway when he reported what was happening. In a strained voice,

he called for urgent backup reporting that he and Kohler were pinned down, that Kohler was hit, and that one of their cars had been disabled by gunfire. The call ignited a massive response. Pine Ridge has long roads and vast distances, but law enforcement vehicles began racing towards the pasture from every direction within minutes. Officers from the Bureau of Indian Affairs, state police, sheriff deputies,

and members of a controversial tribal security group, that I mentioned, the goon squad, joined the incoming wave. They approached fast with their weapons drawn. For the families on the blood, the world was turning upside down. Inside a small house on the rim where children had been playing minutes earlier, panic had erupted. When Leonard reached the house, he could hear the kids screaming. He told them to crawl under the bed, to lie flat, and to cover their heads. Then he ran back outside to draw fire away from the building. He later said he shot upward through the air, hoping only to

suppress incoming bullets. He believed that surrendering to the men filling the pasture below would not and safely for anyone in the camp. So instead, he wanted to divert it by shooting just blankly up into the sky in a different direction. So they would essentially point their gunfire towards him instead of the house full of children. A members scrambled to locate one another and figure out what was happening. Some rushed towards the bluff to protect the homes. Others spread behind it junk cars and in low depressions that offered limited cover.

Gun smoke settled into the ravines and the sound of shots echoed off the walls of the badlands. At this point, the agents were still alive. Both were wounded and their car had taken several more hits as the firefight intensified. Radio logs later showed that Williams was conscious when he reported that rounds were hitting the vehicle's radiator, effectively immobilizing it so they couldn't move. His voice was clipped and urgent and he continued to request reinforcements. Above him, the situation was becoming desperate too. Families fled north and east away from the gunfire. some headed down into the creek line trying to reach the main road where they hoped they could flag a ride for help. But as they approached Highway 18, they saw police vehicles and roadblocks already being set up. It had been minutes since the first shot. From the bluff, it was clear that law enforcement numbers were growing.

Some witnesses later estimated that dozens of armed officers and volunteers poured into the area before noon. It was not clear exactly who they were or where they were stationed, but gunfire from multiple angles, force the aim supporters to keep their heads down and reposition constantly. And remember, there's only 20 aim supporters, and now there's hundreds of federal agents surrounding them. As the firefight grew more intense, a 21-year-old man named Joe Killswright's stunts took up a rifle to defend the families. He told others he was willing to stay behind to protect the camp, even if no one came back for him. A short time later, while near a green cabin on the bluff, he was shot in the forehead. He died almost instantly, and it resulted in

his death, never being investigated by the federal government. The fighting lasted nearly an hour. By the time the gunfire quieted, both federal agents had suffered fatal shots at close range. Helicopters buzzed overhead, armored vehicles parked at likely escape points, and agents swept homes and outbuildings across the reservation, questioning and detaining anyone with a connection to aim. So the two federal officers you're talking about, you said two federal officers sustained fatal injuries, the original first two? Yes. The ones that were calling in saying that they were injured and

they were stuck, they were ultimately found deceased. Okay. I just want to make sure because there's like a lot of people that feel like they're involved at this point. Yeah, there's a lot going on. Well, in the midst of the chaos, Leonard, along with others, had actually found the two federal agents, William and Kohler, who were dead. And this, they knew was a terrifying turn of events because they knew what this meant. they knew that they were as good as dead as well, because if there were two federal agents dead, they were going to come after them and that the FBI would be seeking revenge on their deaths. So instead of hanging around, they decided it had gotten way out of hand and they had to go. So they fled. Leonard and a group of about a dozen supporters, including men, women, and children,

were treated towards the cottonwood trees along the creek. They tried to stay low, crawling through cattails and crossing through. shallow water. Some had lost shoes. Others had just lost their nerve and stayed back. They moved slowly, each step full of fear that a bullet might strike them at any moment. There was one source of hope. As Leonard said a prayer out loud for his people, saying that they were ready to die if that was what was meant for them, but asking for guidance for safety. As he said this prayer, an eagle suddenly flew into the tree above them, screeched once and flew south. The group followed that direction, believing it to be a sign that the eagle was guiding them to safety.

It turned out that it had. Following the path, very shortly after, Leonard, along with the men, women, and children he was leading, found a large drain pipe extending underground. They were able to crawl into it on their hands and knees, concealing them from the spotter planes that circled above. The corrugated metal tore at their hands and knees as they crawled through the tight space in silence. It eventually led them into a cow pasture where they were quickly met with gunfire. As federal agents shot at the men, women, and children fleeing, they dodged and ducked from bullets narrowly missing their heads. And luckily, not a single one of them were hit.

For hours, they ran in search of safety and following the signs of the eagle. And by nightfall, they had escaped. It wasn't over for them, though. This was just the beginning of what had gone down in history as one of the largest manhunts ever conducted. Leonard and the group of people he fled with continued running and hiding for days, as slowly, one by one, people began to be captured. Officers raided homes and safety houses through the next few days, questioning anyone who aim had ties to or connections to the jumping bull community. Word spread quickly that the FBI believed Leonard Peltier had been the one who killed the agents.

He knew that if he were captured then, without legal protection or public attention, he might not survive long enough to stand before a judge. As it was, the FBI was furious, and stories of them shooting bullets into the family portraits of jumping up, both families, some in the head and some in the heart at their family homes, had gotten back to Leonard. So now they're just raiding homes and literally just taking their guns and shooting people's portraits. It's wild. So obviously terrified. He left Pine Ridge behind.

Leonard fled north in the weeks after the shootout. He believed that if he were captured, that that would be it for him. He would end up dead before a judge or trial or anyone ever saw him. He didn't think he'd make it out. So he saw what had happened to indigenous activists who crossed powerful interests and friends urged him to get out while he still could. Crossing into Canada felt like the only way to stay alive. He followed consciously in the footsteps of Sitting Bull,

who had also crossed the border after the Battle of Little Bighorn to escape the United States Army's revenge. And if you remember when in your episode last week, you had talked about that little tidbit and the route and where people went. And I said, keep that in mind because we're going to be talking about this. So Leonard essentially follows the same path. And his idea for this is that he hoped that once he crossed into the Canadian and to Canada, that his Kree relatives and supporters there would help home him and give him a safe place to stay. And for a short while, Canada provided shelter. Indigenous communities there offered him places to sleep and meals to eat.

But each day, that circle grew tighter. American agents contacted Canadian officials repeatedly, pressing for extradition, and Leonard was eventually held in a Vancouver prison, where he was treated as a death row inmate and was housed beside them. In his book, he details being saved by a police officer when a group of angry police officers attempted to attack him because he had been labeled in Canada as a cop killer. So being in prison in Canada was no easy feat. He hung out there in limbo while the U.S.

struggled to meet the legal standard of extradition. They lacked direct evidence tying Leonard to the fatal shots. When the United States first petition Canada for extradition, Judge is hesitated. There was no direct evidence placing Leonard where the fatal shots were fired. Even the FBI laboratory reports did not provide the certainty that prosecutors claimed. For a brief moment, it looked as though Canada might refuse to send him back based on a lack of evidence. But then everything shifted. A new set of avidavit. was submitted to the court. They were signed by an Oglala woman named Mertl Porbear. In those statements, she said she had been at Jumping Bowl that day. She said that she was Leonard's girlfriend,

and she said she saw him execute the agents. The affidavits included details that sounded like eyewitness memory, and the Canadian court accepted them as proof. But the story behind those affidavits never reached the courtroom in time to stop what came next. Murdole later told lawyers and journalists that she never met Leonard Peltier. She said that she had been terrified when authorities confronted her, that she felt pressured and manipulated. She described being shown disturbing photographs, including the severed hands of another native activist

who had refused to cooperate. Agents warned her that she and her daughter could end up in the same way if she did not sign the papers. So she's like, yeah, I'm actually his girlfriend and I saw everything. Yeah, because... Meanwhile, she's never met him. I never met him in his life. And same thing, Leonard echoes that sentiment when he says he saw her and like her the testimony. He was like, I've never seen this woman in my life. I have no idea who she is. I don't know. But at the

same time, he also, and we'll get into it, he details knowing that she was coerced. Yeah, the position that she was in. Yeah. She was the victim. She was another indigenous woman that was being victimized by the federal government. And of course, they were threatening to cut off her hands. and threatening her children. And threatening to cut off her daughter's hands. So, I mean, what are you going to do at that point? And this is in the 70s. Yeah.

Okay. Just clarifying. Just clarifying that this is very, very recent. So with all of that and her testimony and the affidavits, Canada couldn't really keep him anymore. And he was extradited to the United States. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank.

When he arrived in the U.S., his treatment was less than favorable. He was constantly threatened with death by police officers and guards. He was fed cold, tasteless meals, denied exercise or showers and visits from his family. He was informed that the guards had been urinating on his food. And when he refused to eat it, a group of guards filled a cell. cornered him in a wall and spit and yelled in his face. Leonard at that point had had enough, and instead of cowering, he stood tall despite his fear and yelled, Today is a good day to die and held his fists up. He had decided that if he was going to die,

he would take some of the guards with him. And one of them closest to him seemed to have realized what was going on in his mind because Leonard in his book, he describes this moment where he sees this flash of fear on this guard's face that's like, oh, I'm the closest to this man. and he is mad. And he, this guard actually takes a moment and sees him and is like, you know what, everyone, let's leave. And he actually corrals all of the guards out. And this was the man who led them all in in the first place.

Change of heart, I see. Yes. But he was transferred very quickly after that because there was clearly a risk of him being killed in jail there, which wouldn't look very good in such a public trial because now this was gaining pretty big headlines. He was sent to Leavenworth in Kansas. where the guards greeted him by saying, quote,

you're dead, you fucking Indian bastard. You'll never get out of here alive. We will get you one way or another. Then the guard said that he would most likely get a promotion if he had killed him. He speaks of this moment in his book, saying that the utter fear he felt entering the prison was changed after that treatment of this guard. Instead of feeling fear towards him,

he suddenly felt a spirit surged through his body, giving him courage and strength. When his trial began in March of 1977 in Fargo, North Dakota, Myrtle tried to testify and recant the affidavits. She wanted the jury to hear the truth about how she had been coerced. The judge refused to allow her in the room. The very testimony that brought Leonard to the U.S. was barred from being heard when it mattered the most. Years later, U.S. officials would actually acknowledge that the affidavits were false.

Government lawyers admitted in court that Myrtle Poorbear's statements should not have been used. But by then, of course, it was too late. The extradition had succeeded and he was in court now. Leonard has always maintained that Myrtle should not be blamed. He saw her as another indigenous person caught inside a system willing to sacrifice the vulnerable to secure a conviction. The system benefited from her fear. The system put those words on paper. And the system refused to correct the injustice even once the truth was known. And Myrtle was not to be blamed for that. Two other AIM members, Dino Butler and Bob Robito were tried earlier for the same killings and acquitted on self-defense. A jury had found that they had no evidence that these people had committed anything.

But for Leonard, things were very different. Evidence of the reign of terror and the climate of fear on Pine Ridge was ruled inadmissible, and Leonard was not permitted to argue self-defense at his own trial. The prosecution relied heavily on casing and ballistic tests, that they claimed matched his rifle. Years later, however, documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act showed the FBI test did not conclusively link his weapon to the fatal shots, even though they claimed that for their entire prosecution. At an appeals hearing, a federal prosecutor eventually stated they did not know who fired the bullets that killed the agents.

In addition to false evidence during his trial, the prosecution had a reenactment performed in front of the jury of how the two federal agents were killed. In it, they showed one agent with a hand in front of his face begging not to be killed. But Leonard refused the request and shot him point blank through his hand and into his skull before turning and shooting the other federal agent as well. There was no evidence at all that indicated this had happened, but it was still allowed to be shown in court. And to add further to how poorly this trial was handled, the government concocted a false narrative that AIM members had plans to attack the courtroom. They even went so far as to cover the courtroom windows and federal agents armed to the teeth swarmed the court building. The jury was moved by SWAT teams and their

bus to get to and from the courtroom had had all of their windows painted over. So now the jury's terrified. They're creating this entire scene that they're going to be attacked at any moment because of this man who's sitting on trial that they have the obligation to convict. Yeah, it feels very performative and I feel like that was its sole intention and purpose. I do you really think they believed there was a threat of that magnitude or were they like, this is going to really sell what we're trying to? I think they were trying to get a conviction. Yeah. Because AIM members, Leonard, people have come forward and said there was no, there was never even a plan for that. Like that is completely fabricated as totally made up. We don't even know where or how they would get information like that. Okay. So of course,

this terrified, all-white jury, I should mention, took six hours to convict Leonard of two counts of first-degree murder and he was sentenced to two consecutive life sentences. He insisted he never killed anyone. He insisted that if he could have prevented the violence that day, he would have died trying. And at the end of the trial, the prosecutor told a trembling jury, jury, this man, killed in cold blood those federal agents. However, years later at an appeal trial, I kind of mentioned it a second ago. This same prosecutor would admit in court that the federal government had no idea who killed the federal agents and stated for the record they had no evidence of who committed the crime. That is so unbelievably just fucked. Okay, wait, just really quick question,

and I don't know if you went over it or if you know this. Okay. But how you described this, how they were reenacting quote unquote, this scene that unfolded for the jury where Leonard allegedly was right up in front of them and shot them both. Mm-hmm. In their autopsies, if they had them, the federal agents, was there any evidence of point blank? Yes, they were shot. Okay. They were shot point blank, but they have no idea who did it.

And also, I also want to clarify, which I think is really important, that these federal agents came there and they were shooting at these people. So it was, whatever was happening here was most likely self-defense. Even if they got killed, they were the ones who arrived there. And we'll get into it a little bit later, I think. I think I put this in here. I meant to if I didn't, but I guess I could just talk about it now. But also, I meant. mentioned it a little bit during the story that they called in for backup and suddenly they were swarmed with these federal agents. When they were in a really remote area, it would be really hard for people to get there. It is very widely believed that they had planned this attack all along because there were hundreds of federal agents there within minutes. And also this corrupt tribal leader that I mentioned Wilson at the beginning, the very day before this happened, he had illegally signed a deal to give some land from Pine Ridge to the federal government, which was very legal. He had no right to do that. And he had done it the day before. So it is not interesting.

And it is for the renewable energy resources that they had at the Pine Ridge Reservation. Okay. So it feels like this was all a setup. A setup. Yeah. And they're mad because two of their agents died. But again, one of one of the locals, the Pine Ridge Reservation. rich community, that 21-year-old man was killed defending his family. And it was never investigated at all. They're like, okay, well, he actually doesn't matter because we have these two federal agents that died and we want to focus on them because they matter. Yeah, that's insane. And they were shot point blank. And we'll go into it a little bit later. But Leonard actually talks about how he grieves for them as well. He's like, this was senseless. They shouldn't have died. Our people shouldn't have died. We have so much blood.

we've lost so much blood in our own families. They shouldn't have died. I grieve along with everyone from that day. It shouldn't have happened, period. And so because it was clear that they were murdered close. Okay. For a second, I was, I think, a little bit confused because it seemed like this big shootout that was kind of going from kind of a distance type of thing. No, totally fair question.

I just want to clarify. blank. Okay, because I'm like, if they weren't, then that whole thing feels like it has no way. It truly happened, but they had no evidence that Leonard did it at all. They just had picked him. And these other guys for some reason who a jury had luckily for them found that there was no evidence corroborating that story. But for Leonard, he was kind of like the last person they could pin it on. And the federal government was like, we have to put someone in prison for this. Two federal agents are dead. And Leonard, unfortunately, was the person they kind of like stuck their heels into and were like, he's the guy. Leonard's life in prison became a long and painful part of his life. He spent years in high security facilities, including Levensworth, Marion and Lompoc. He endured beatings from prison guards, suffered from health problems, including severe jaw pain following an injury, that left his teeth and bones damaged. He slowly lost much of his eyesight, requests for medical treatment or sometimes delayed or denied,

In his book, Prison Writings, My Life is a Sundance. He details undergoing radiation treatments, which medical professionals have since deemed completely unnecessary for his health issues, which he now suspects was done as an intentional radiation poisoning. Which that part of his book just like blew my mind. It's like, what do you mean you were getting radiation treatments for no reason? And they were just trying to poison you while in prison. But still, through all of this, all this treatment, he still. held on to hope. He corresponded with activists, politicians, and leaders worldwide who questioned

the integrity of his conviction and called for clemency. In his book, he expressed his hopes for justice, and I wanted to read just a little excerpt in part of what he wrote there. He wrote, This time has come for me to set forth in words my personal testament, not because I am planning to die, but because I am planning to live. This is the 23rd year of my imprisonment for a crime I did not commit. I am now 54 years old. I have been in here since I was 31. I have been told I have to live out two lifetime sentences plus seven years before I get out of prison in the year 2041. By then I will be 97. I do not think I will make it. My life is an extended agony. I feel like I have lived a hundred lifetimes in prison already. But I am prepared to live thousands more on behalf of my people. If my

imprisonment does nothing more than educate an unknowing and uncaring public about the terrible conditions Indian people continue to endure than my suffering has had and continues to have purpose. My people's struggle to survive inspires my own struggles to survive. Each of us must be a survivor. To the still grieving Kohler and Williams families, I send my prayers if you will have them. They are the prayers of an entire people, not just my own. We have many dead of our own to pray for, and we join our prayers of sorrows to yours. I swear to you, I am guilty of only being an Indian. That is why I am here. In 1979, Peltier briefly successfully escaped from a lower security prison in Lomp, California. He had been warned by another incarcerated native man at a maximum security prison in Illinois.

His name was Robert Standing, Dear Wilson, that authorities had asked him to kill Leonard in exchange for dropping a murder charge on him and offering him medical treatment for a painful spinal injury that they had been refusing to treat for a long time. Standing Deer had reluctantly agreed, but decided he was unable to do it and told Leonard instead. When guards discovered he was made aware of the plan, they moved him to Lompoc, where Leonard feared another assassination was waiting for him. Despite knowing that fleeing would give guards an excuse to execute him, he fled, along with two other inmates. During the escaped attempt, a guard was injured and one of the inmates was shown. shot and killed by officers. The other escapee, after recapture, was found suspiciously to have hung himself in the medical

unit of the prison. Leonard hid for five days before being discovered by a farmer. He later said he had the chance to kill the man and continue running. But he would not cross that line. He was captured alive and returned to high security confinement back in Illinois. The escape added seven years to a sentence, but something interesting had happened now. His case had gained so much national attention that. that supporters demanded his release and Leonard reasoned that now it was too dangerous to have him killed

and he almost gained this new sense of security because of it. Because his outbreak, people were like, he needs to be free. People had already been rallying. But there was something that sparked him leaving. And it was kind of unclear to me if the public knew that there was an assassination attempt on him. I don't think the public knew. I think that this kind of came out later when he tells his story. but there was something about him briefly having freedom that just sparked this outrage of he needs to be free.

Security program on spreadsheets, new regulations piling up, and audit dread? It's time for Vanta. Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place, and cuts audit prep by 82%. Less manual work, clear visibility, faster deals, zero chaos. Call it compliance or call it compliance. Get it? Join the 15,000. thousand companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to VANTA.com. Throughout nearly half a century behind bars, Leonard continued to advocate for indigenous issues. He organized food and clothing drives from his cell, supported a scholarship program for Native law students, and worked to draw attention to the ongoing struggles facing

reservation communities. His art was sold to raise funds for activism. His letters encourage youth to learn their history and stand up for their communities. His supporters included civil rights leaders, former international heads of state, and many tribal nations calling for clemency or a new trial. Multiple appeals failed to overturn his conviction, even as questions grew about the integrity of the evidence. Federal judges acknowledged misconduct, yet declined to grant him a new trial. Parole was denied repeatedly. For decades, the Federal Bureau of Investigation opposed his release at every turn. Supporters called Paltera political prisoner. Someone punished more for his identity and activism than proven guilt. Over 25 million people from around the

world signed petitions demanding his immediate release. In his memoir, he reveals the core of his resilience. The Sundance is a sacred ceremony and a vital part of his spiritual belief system. Leonard explains that giving your flesh to the great spirit during the Sundance is a form of sacrifice. He writes, what you have given you can no longer use. The Sundance, he says, is the source of his strength and made even prison life bearable. The title of his book frames his entire life, including his imprisonment and his suffering on behalf of his people as a form of spiritual sacrifice. He took an oath as a sun dancer. He would never turn against his people. In fact, he was willing to die for them. If you remember, his book is titled Prison Writings,

My Life is in My Sundance. Peltier's commitment to activism extended even more from behind the bars. In January 2025, after nearly five decades in prison, he was 80 years old in frail health with limited mobility and vision. Leonard Peltier's life sentence was commuted by President Joe Biden only hours before he left office. Leonard was released from a federal prison in Florida and returned home to the turtle-mounted ban of Chippewa Cree Reservation. Peltier's last-minute negotiation asking Biden to commute his sentence to home confinement is what Biden ultimately signed. off on. However, Leonard doesn't take credit for his release. He notes the worldwide pressure influenced the decision with almost every tribal nation in the U.S. filing for his release. The United Nations did a full report demanding his immediate release and compensation.

Hundreds of senators and world leaders, including two popes, also demanded his freedom. Nick Tilson, who heads the indigenous advocacy group at the NDN Collective, helped lead the campaign to bring Peltier home. Tilsen stated that Peltier's return carries a profound weight almost as if there's a message in timing. To some, Peltier's homecoming is a beacon of light as their people face immense challenges. Still, though, Leonard Piltier isn't entirely free. There are strict limitations on his movements because his sentence was only commuted to home confinement. So essentially, he got released from prison and now he's home on house arrest.

He cannot even travel to Grand Forks for medical treatment without a pass. Any travel over 100 miles requires a pass, and there is a set limit on how many days he can stay if he does decide to travel. He is also restricted on the number of people who can visit him at one time. There were even restrictions on dating, which made him extremely angry, of course. He was able to get that lifted, but he's still not allowed to have overnight guests at his home, but he is allowed to have a girlfriend, and there are rumors that he does have a girlfriend. But still, he is clearly in a, there's no evidence of his guilt. He's served 50 years in prison, and now he's basically imprisoned on his reservation. Leonard Peltier and his supporters are working to have all limitations removed. He still hopes for a full pardon and to gain complete freedom. He currently resides in a modest two-bedroom house bought for him by his supporters on the Turtle Mountain Reservation, a space he views as an unimaginable luxury after a life in poverty and in prison.

Today, Peltier is spending his time recovering and connecting with friends and family. His focus remains on Mother Earth and the environment. He wants to work on the issue of teenage suicides on the Pine Ridge Reservation, and he wants to transform his garage into an art studio and resume painting if upcoming treatments can improve his vision. Leonard Peltier, who is 81 years old now, remains angry about the dire conditions in most indigenous communities and is unapologetic for his lifelong effort to draw attention to indigenous grievances. He says, quote, all we were trying to do was save a race of people from being terminated. The tragic events surrounding Leonard Peltier and the continued struggle for justice are deeply rooted in the history of Badlands National Parks region.

The lands that overlap with the Badlands, specifically the Stronghold District and the Pine Ridge Reservation, are sites of immense cultural and historical significance to the Oglala, Lakota people reminding us that the creation of our national parks often involved the disposition of indigenous lands. Today, there is an evolving conversation about the current presence and continued collaboration between indigenous people and the National Park Service on their ancestral lands. In Badlands National Park, the South Unit is managed under agreement between the National Park Service and the Oglala Sioux Tribe, the NPS and OST, alongside the Oglala Sioux Parks and Recreational Recreation Authority have been working cooperatively on a general management plan for the South Unit since 2006. The badlands are moving towards including indigenous people and decision making.

The general management plan established a shared vision for the South Unit, focusing on restoring prairie health, expanding bison populations, and providing greater opportunities for visitors to experience its natural grandeur. Crucially, the plan explicitly addresses the desire for those Glala Sioux Tribe to be more involved in management and lays out the NPS proposal for the nation's first tribal national park. This effort could be a model for other parks nationwide. The Biden-Harris administration announced steps to strengthen tribal co-stewardship of public lands and waters. The Department of Interior has acknowledged the legacy of disposition and exclusion of tribal nations and has designated monuments that include tribal co-management requirements. Examples of this co-management are seen

across the country. In early August, 2003, a new national monument was designated near the Grand Canyon, protecting nearly one million acres of culturally and ecologically significant land. The move formally recognizes the importance of including tribal nations and land stewardship in alignment with longstanding treaty and trust obligations. Though it is, of course, an uphill battle, and of course we're seeing a lot of that right now with a lot of backpedaling with lands being taken and used for corporate use, There are some success stories. A prime example is the CSKT Bison Rage in Montana. This land was returned to the Confederate Salish and Kootenai tribes in 2020,

representing a significant move of ancestral land to tribal management. Another success is the ongoing project at Katadin Woods and Waters National Monument, where the NPS and Wabanaki nations of Maine are working together to construct a visitor station that will tell the region's story through a primarily indigenous lens. with special attention to protecting indigenous storytelling and cultural property. For the Oglala Lakota, the badlands remain a treasure that must be protected, a sentiment expressed by Oglala President Kevin Killer. He said, that's one of the things we're known for, being able to protect our community,

protect our district resources. And I think that something that was kind of instilled down into us, protect your mother, protect your homeland. Leonard Peltier, even under the restraints of home confinement, still is fighting for a full pardon. His struggle serves as a potent reminder of the ongoing issues of indigenous rights and sovereignty that intersect with American public lands and our national identity. As Peltor states in prison writings, the goal remains to stop the destruction of indigenous people and to ensure that they are not treated as mere statistics, but as the foundational people of this land. His life,

sacrifice for decades in the name of justice, pushes all of us to remember the full, complex history embedded in national parks in general and Badlands National Park in particular. And that is my story of Leonard Peltier. Wow. Super heavy, but the one thing that kind of has been just repeating in my head over and over throughout that is what a life of service that this man has led in the face of the most dire and unfair circumstances. Yeah, even in prison, he is. is advocating. Like, his activism was before he was imprisoned and he didn't stop his entire time he's in prison. He's facing beatings and cruel treatment and lack of food and threats of death. And still, he is using any resource he can to help his people. Because, you know, you can so

easily see a world in which somebody just throws up their hands and are like, I'm done. Like, I don't have anything else to give, you know, this whole, the cards are stacked. So unfair. against me. I feel really hopeless and angry and just have that kind of overtake everything. And I mean, I don't think anyone would blame somebody for feeling that way in that circumstance. But I think there's also an aspect to it where he probably recognized that's what they were trying to do is to silence him and to beat him down and shut him up and just throw away the key, you know, type of thing. And he was just like, I don't. fucking think so. And I'm just going to keep doing what in my heart I feel is the right thing to do,

despite my unfair circumstances. And I'm going to try and work through that the best I can while simultaneously advocating for the things that I feel so passionate about and always have. And so I think that part of the story is also so inspiring to see somebody just persevere. Yeah, I agree. I think that just throughout everything. I mean, even in the moment where he was standing in his cell and he's surrounded by officers and they're ready to beat him and kill him, he's just like, you know what, let's do this. He's like, I'm not going down without a fight though. And that was kind of a sentiment throughout everything. It's like, I am not, like, you can try and silence me. You can try to get rid of me, but I'm not going down without a fight. And I, he talks a lot in his book just about this courage and

encouragement that he got from his own spiritual beliefs and from his people and how that really, and like I mentioned in there, the talk about how my life is my son dance and how that really perpetuated him surviving a lot of this. And I think the really interesting part about the story is that he still hasn't received justice. You know, this is still very much ongoing. And now this man who has had to sacrifice his entire life is still being treated. as a criminal. And there's no evidence that suggests he is one. So the fact that this is still an ongoing struggle. And I really, when I was telling a story, I really wanted to highlight how he was specifically treated in certain circumstances where guards were threatening him, where there was

people were trying to kill him, where they were urinating in his food. And then there was also, I didn't even mention this in the story, but he details a time before he was ever arrested, that he was just out with some friends and there were some guys that were heckling him and trying to fight him. And when he finally, like, stood up and was like, all right, like, what is this? They were two off-duty police officers who took out their guns and threatened to kill him. Yeah. Yeah. And then arrested him and put him in jail and said that he was the one who pointed a gun at them. Yeah. No. Yeah. So this whole thing is just, you know, and you did mention it throughout just not only from,

his own words, but also just to make the point that, you know, there are two people who lost their lives. Two people were murdered. And that's a tragedy as well. So I can see like this, just this entire story just is a lose, lose and a bad situation for everybody involved. You know, I can see the families of those two individuals who want justice, but that doesn't mean you can pin it on somebody and just like lock them up and throw away the key and wash your hands. of that, you know, that is that something that they would even really truly want if that's, I just wonder if they believe that he truly was to blame for that from their perspective. I would imagine probably from some people. I think that once you're told that, and especially,

I think that there is like, especially in law enforcement or any high stress job, there's almost like this brotherhood or commodity that happens. And if one person is like, this guy's a cop killer, then, I mean, he describes it. He's like, I was labeled a cop killer, so they had it out for me. And I think that that's going to be very common. And I think that they probably, especially because these were cops in Canada, who had no, like, probably limited knowledge about his case happening in the United States. But they just hear that. And they're like, okay. So I'm sure that there were some people who were misinformed and truly believed it. And then I'm sure that there were others who just didn't care that they were like, that it was more of a racial thing and that they didn't care.

They just saw that he was an indigenous person and that's all they saw and decided to let racism rule whatever they thought. And it just didn't matter. Well, at least there has been some strides forward. You know, clearly it's not the best outcome and there's still some improvements to be made because there's a lot of restrictions going on with him. But after decades of, you know, being wrongfully imprisoned and having champions on the outside and people who really championed his freedom, you know, or quote unquote, freedom, because the no dating thing is, it's a come on. Let the guy fucking live a little bit.

And now he's not allowed to have anyone sleep over. Like, he's been in prison away from, like, like, Like, just let him. Because he went in when he was 31 and he's, what, 81 when he was released? Yeah. Let the guy. I know. Have a girlfriend.

Literally. And it sounds, rumor says that he does, which is nice. That's very nice and lovely. He deserves more than that. He deserves to live out. He deserves his name to be cleared from all of this. And he deserves to live a life. And I also think you should be compensated.

If they can't prove any of this, then I think that there needs to be something to try and make amends for the life he gave up for this. That's a good point because do you happen to know if, because I know there is compensation given to, or what's the word? There's a specific phrase or term, like terminology when somebody is given money for being falsely in prison. It's like, I'm so sorry, here's $5 million are bad. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I feel like an idiot, but I truly don't know. You guys can tell us. I don't even know how to phrase the question on Google. But I do think he should be compensated for, I mean, he spent his, he spent so much time. He gave his entire life. And I think that that deserves something. And I don't even know if he wants compensation. But I just think something needs to be done to make it right. And I think that it's still an ongoing fight. And I hope that it is done during his lifetime. I mean, he's in his 80s now. And, there's not, you know, there's not unlimited time for this and people need to step forward in

and really just admit that what was done to him was wrong and leave it at that. Yeah. 100%. Okay, well, let's carry on our tradition for week two of palette cleansers. We'll do two questions because this one was already kind of long, but I just feel like we need to be uplifted a little bit because that one was tough. So if you miss last week, we are trying to implement a palette cleanser at the end of every episode. We've talked about it in the past, but I don't know, every hard episode. So we asked our Patreon chat just if they have any questions. And I'm just going to refer back to that initial when you asked last episode. Yeah. So many people. Yeah. Okay. Let's just randomly go here. I'll do two random ones. Random. What are your shoe sizes? Yes, I know it's a weird question. I wear a size a

and no one seems to have big feet. I'm so sorry, Rebecca, because we're going to make you feel like you have big feet. We're both a size six, which is really nice because when we're on trips, if we like forget our shoes or if we need to like swap things or whatever. We can share. We can share. What's your favorite breakfast spot in New Hampshire? Oh, I don't know.

I'm not a huge. You're not a huge breakfast person. Yeah, I'm not a huge breakfast person. So that's hard. I have two. Okay. You can give for mine. Yeah.

It will be one for each of us. So I guess they're not like my favorite, but they're the most nostalgic, I guess, I would say. Okay. The first is Parker's Maple Barn in somewhere in New Hampshire, Southern New Hampshire. It's in Mason. Mason, thank you so much. My family and I would go there a lot growing up, and I still go there. there every once in a while. It's one of those places that's just like so classically New Hampshire.

There's always a wait. They don't take reservations. And they have like a sugar shack. They have events going on a lot. But it's total like standard breakfast and pancakes type of thing, maple syrup, things like that. It's really nice. And then I really like Polly's Pancake House, which is up near the whites a little bit. And I went there with, Ian and my best friend, Natia and her husband, Mike, after my sister's wedding. And I don't know what it is about. I wasn't hungover. It wasn't like this meal was so great because I was so hungover and it just hit the spot.

Yeah. It wasn't that, but just that meal was so good. I don't know if it was the company coming off of a high of a good day or what it was, but that pancake house really hit. So there's two suggestions for you. I thought of one. Oh, okay. For me.

Yeah. This one is the airport cafe in Nashua. And this one is, it's a really fun little spot because you would never know about it. And unless you know, I guess. But there's a private airport in Nashua. It's all like little, little Cessna planes that fly out of their little private planes. But they have a cafe with big windows that overlook the airport strip. so you can watch people coming in and out while they land their planes there.

And it's just a really cool vibe. There's a lot of pilots that are hanging out in there and the food is really good. And I used to go there sometimes on my lunch breaks too because they have lunch when we worked in vet med together. That's so funny because I never knew that. Like Cassie's at the airport. It was right down the street. Yeah. Yeah, it's just a cool little spot. It's like a, it's a cool vibe that's there. Oh, I have another one though. That's actually my favorite. I'm just like thinking now. Okay. And this one is the hilltop cafe in Wilton, New Hampshire. And it is so cute. It is just like the epitome of New England, what you would think. You drive off, it feels like you're driving off into the middle of nowhere. And you suddenly come across this farm house and you walk into this old farmhouse. And it's a cute.

restaurant and they have all like really good locally sourced food great drinks you can sit outside on the farm it's just like very local community they have beautiful local art on the wall uh you can buy some of their fresh cheeses and eggs and and stuff when you're there and it's just like a really really cozy vibe and i really like going there okay nice well to to wrap it back into the theme of this somehow, Parker's Maple Barn, the first powwow I ever got to attend was right across the street. They were hosting a open to the public powwow. Oh, wow. And I parked in the Parker's Maple Barn parking lot and across the dirt road. And this was years ago. I mean, this is when I was in college and I was taking the Indigenous Studies course that I've talked about before. It changed my life. And the

professor. It wasn't a requirement or anything to go, but the professor told the class of this event that was going on and said that it was one that was open to the public and public was not only welcome, but encouraged to go. And I went. And I went with my mom. And it was just such a cool event. It was on the smaller side, but I really learned a lot and got to see so many unique dances and people were in their traditional regalia. And it was just, it was so beautiful to see. And it was just, it was so beautiful to see. And it just happened to be at Parker's Maple Barn. That's so funny. So there we go.

Great. Well, we have so many questions, but this has been a long episode. And I feel better now. Yeah, you too. Maybe like I need some pancakes, but I'm a little hungry now, but better. Cool. Well, thank you everyone for hanging out with us for this episode and for Daniels episode last month. These are stories that we love to bring stories, but bringing stories that are so important,

just kind of has an extra feel for us when they get to bring them to you. So thank you bringing out with us. In the meantime, enjoy the view. But watch you're back. Bye, everyone. Bye. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories,

join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark Book Club, live streams, discord, and much more. If you prefer to watch our episodes, video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and X at National Park After Dark. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you may not know yet.

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