National Park After Dark - The Loose Buckle in the Bible Belt: Hot Springs National Park

Episode Date: May 1, 2023

Hot Springs National Park was nicknamed the loose buckle in the Bible Belt for its long history of criminal operations, speakeasies, and mob lore. Today we conduct a historic tour of the park, visitin...g the favorite haunts of infamous gangsters like Al Capone and Lucky Luciano.For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Honey: Use our link to get PayPal Honey for free. Prose: Use our link for a free in-depth hair consultation and 15% off your first order.Skylight Frame: Get 10% off, up to $30 off at SkylightFrame.com/PARK.Gametime: Download Gametime and use code NPAD for $20 of your first purchase. For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Close your eyes. Listen to Monday.com. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform. So flexible and intuitive, it feels like it was built just for you. Now open your eyes. Go to Monday.com. Start for free and finally, breathe. Organized crime has played a role in history around the world for centuries. Professional criminals. Groups of powerful organizations that carry out large-scale operations, profiting, often, millions or even billions of dollars from illegal activities. People making their living off of fraud, money laundering, prostitution, human trafficking, hijacking, robbing, and even murder. They are stories that have been sensationalized in Hollywood for years and stories that occasionally come to public light and make headlines. When someone speaks of American organized crime, I can probably guess your first thought. Gangsters, the Mafia, the Godfather, or the Sopranos, men in pinstripe suits, ties, and a fedora smoking a cigar. The violent and criminal
Starting point is 00:01:07 activities of these organizations have been romanticized and have been the subject of major films and books. But the lives of these men are messy, dangerous, and deadly. The further you dig into these stories, the uglier and more interesting they get. Welcome to National Park, After dark. All right, we're back in the land, the land of true crime. We sure are. This is pretty much as true crime as true crime gets. Well, I'm glad you're back. I feel like we haven't recorded in a long time. It's been a couple weeks. I feel like, because we front-loaded a bunch of stuff, and then we had like this week off. And now we're back. And I'm so excited. Where are we, are we in the U.S. for sure, right? If you're talking about like American things. For sure.
Starting point is 00:02:16 We're finally. And we've had a lot of people ask for the this national park. We're finally heading to Hot Springs National Park in Arkansas. I have such foamow about Hot Springs. Can I tell you that? We were so close. We were so close. I drove even closer by last year too. I was literally like, saw the exit for it almost. And yeah, it's a sore spot. It is. And I think this will be very reminiscent of our times in our time in Eureka Springs because they have very similar vibes, the places. And when I was researching it, I'm like, wow, this sounds so much like Eureka Springs. So I think you're just going to feel more sad that we didn't go as I go into it.
Starting point is 00:02:56 Great. I wonder if you're going to talk about my favorite gangster. Who's your favorite gangster? John Dillinger. No, sorry. You didn't make the cut. Have you seen public enemies, the movie? I think so, maybe.
Starting point is 00:03:10 No. Okay. It's with Johnny Depp. He plays John Dillinger. It came out in like, I think, oh nine, like a long time ago. But it's really good. I don't know if I've seen that, actually. Okay.
Starting point is 00:03:22 Well, if he didn't make the cut, we're not even going to talk about him, which is upsetting, but it's fine. I'm sorry, I didn't know. I should have asked who you wanted, which gangster you want me to talk about. Well, today is a fun episode. It's a little bit different, I think, than any episodes I've done in the past because this is going to be kind of a mix of National Park history. I formatted it as we're going to do a historic tour of Hot Springs. National Park, which is a place that has been nicknamed the loose buckle in the Bible Belt because of its history of hosting illegal activities and vacationing criminals that are there. And then we're going
Starting point is 00:03:58 to do some hopping around to Chicago and New York City because we're going to talk about the lives of some major gangsters that were in history who also used Hot Springs National Park as a vacation place. A vacation home. Okay. Yeah. Nice. Yep. There's a lot of activities going on. So we're really hopping around here between historic buildings and historic places and then also events and mobsters. And we're going into a lot of different directions, I guess, in this episode. I know. You did say you went off the rails a little bit. I did. I thought this episode was going to be, I'm like, okay, I have a couple things. And then I started reading these books and I'm like, I have so many things to talk about. And I feel like I'm only touching the surface on gangsters when I do this.
Starting point is 00:04:40 So it's very interesting. And Hot Springs, I think if Hot Springs National Park is not, on your list to visit. Yeah, I think it will be once we're done with this episode. Sweet. So to start us off, let's talk about the park. Hot Springs National Park is located near central Arkansas and is adjacent to the city of Hot Springs. There is archaeological evidence that has suggested that people have inhabited this region for almost 10,000 years.
Starting point is 00:05:05 And it has an extensive history of indigenous populations. Most likely, what first attracted people to the area was the abundance of natural resources, which includes spring. and wildlife and many cold water springs in the area. But what makes this area so interesting and different are the thermal water springs that are located here. It is here that many native inhabitants most likely use these waters for thousands of years for medicinal purposes and eventually it became a major destination for many other people because of them too. This area has been known by indigenous groups as the Valley of Vapers. The Caddo, Quapas, Chauta, and Cherokee people,
Starting point is 00:05:46 are just a few indigenous groups that have made this area their home for generations. In fact, these tribes had an agreement amongst each other that these healing thermal springs that were here were actually an area of peace. So even amongst enemies, they could all congregate to this area without any repercussions or any fear of their safety. It's all coming back to me from the research when we did for the Crescent Hotel. Yeah. Yeah, they're kind of similar areas.
Starting point is 00:06:14 They both have the thermal springs. And they're not that far. They're only a couple hours away from each other. So of course, in history, we've seen when the Spanish and the Europeans come in, things happen and they take over. So it's the same thing with this area in hot springs. After the Spanish and Europeans discovered the area and the medicinal properties of the waters, fights broke out over the land. Eventually, on August 24th, 1818, the Kwa-Paw natives seeded the land and were forced to a reservation south of the area. and then later removed to, quote unquote, Indian territory in the 1830s. Hot Springs National Park was originally established as Hot Springs Reservation because of these thermal pools and natural resources on April 20th, 1832. Hey, hey. Is that today? Oh, wow. We're recording this on April 20th.
Starting point is 00:07:07 Wow. Wow. I'm like, hey, that date sounds very familiar. I planned that. Right. Yeah, that's exactly. It's all coming together. Wow.
Starting point is 00:07:15 What also makes this interesting besides that is it was the first area ever designated for federal protections under the United States government. And the hot springs were eventually open for public use in the 1880s. Now these hot springs flow from the western slope of hot springs mountain, which is a smaller mountain that stands at about 1,040 feet, which is 317 meters in elevation. And what's also really interesting about these hot springs and sets it apart from. others around the country is their geothermal pools are not created by any volcanic component. It is believed that these waters that are at an average 140 degrees Fahrenheit, which is 60 degrees Celsius, are heated because of contact that they make with rock material deep inside of the earth. These waters are believed to be rainwater that's actually over 4,000 years old.
Starting point is 00:08:08 And it's believed that this water has plunged to 7 to 8,000 feet or 2,000. 438 meters below the surface and then it comes back to the surface very quickly, which creates the heating process. Unlike other geothermal pools, so I'm talking like Yellowstone or the hot springs that you see out west, this water doesn't have an odor. It doesn't have an odor or a taste because it doesn't have sulfur components that are associated with volcanic heat sources. And because of this, Hot Springs National Park is the only national park system that offers geothermal water as a potable water supply. So you can drink this. Interesting. Yeah. You can drink warm water if that's here. It just seems like counterintuitive just because we're so used to associating
Starting point is 00:08:59 the hot springs with like you said the sulfur and like you wouldn't go into Yellowstone and take a sip of their thermals. Please don't. But you wouldn't even think to do that. I don't like warm water. So I probably wouldn't do that. Yeah. You can make tea, though. Make your own tea right from the source. Yeah, I guess. Sure.
Starting point is 00:09:21 Or if just drinking a nice warm, lukewarm cup of water is your thing, then. I feel like a lot of wellness movements are like, start every day with a glass of lukewarm. Or I don't think they say lukewarm, but like room temperature, lemon water. And I'm like, I could not think of anything I'd want to do less than that. I think it's because when you drink water that's like body temperature, it uses less energy to drink it versus when you drink something that's really cold. Your body uses energy to make it the same temperature as your body. I read that in a survival thing one time.
Starting point is 00:09:59 So maybe that's why I personally don't like really cold water either. I'm a like I have I have water and I like it not room temperature. I guess room temperature, but not like body temperature. Yeah, I start every day off. with a cold brew, so I'm not even, I'm not even, I'm like, I don't even drink water. I don't. As the crispy chicken sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know, I'm crispy.
Starting point is 00:10:31 Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Like, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold, I'm juicy. Throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me, and baby I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet, no. Kris, saucy, and $4?
Starting point is 00:10:47 Very. only at 711. Valley through 62326 participating stores only well supplies lastly out for full terms. Well, anyway, so hot springs national park, the thermal pools here are potable water and it has 47 hot springs that pour more than 750,000 gallons of thermal water every single day. In 1921, Hot Springs Reservation was officially established as a national park, and today it encompasses 5,550 acres, which, actually, actually makes Hot Springs National Park the smallest national park in the United States. This park has over 26 miles of trail systems, forests, ancient thermal springs, mountain views, very interesting geology, and preserves historic buildings and bathhouses inside of the city of Hot Springs. So it's a combination park of nature and part of an actual town city area as well.
Starting point is 00:11:44 Because people believed that these waters carried medicinal purposes, after settlers took over the land they built bathhouses. And they believe that these waters helped skin diseases, arthritis, tuberculosis, cancers, lung disease, serious injuries, and doctors would recommend their patients go to the hot springs to heal. Now, by the 1870s, doctors would actually prescribe various types of baths for patients and their durations. So they basically get a prescription that was like, you are prescribed to go to the bathhouse three days a week, two hours each time. It was like, So sometimes people would spend months there going through their like quote unquote treatments. P.S. also snort cocaine while doing this. That was the old timey doctor's orders. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:12:34 Yeah, they like some baths and some cocaine and you are going to be set. Even if you're not actually better, you're going to feel better because you're going to be a spa with cocaine. No wonder. Everyone's like, wow. This is amazing. Like this works. Go see my doctor. Oh, my God. But some of these treatments also included drinking the waters or spending time in steam boxes as well. So it wasn't just like sitting in the waters themselves. And these bathhouses started off as wooden boxes and like these vapor cabinets.
Starting point is 00:13:08 But they eventually were built up into full bathhouses and spas. Today, nine of those bathhouses are preserved in Hot Springs National Park and are referred to as bathhouse row. And some of these bathhouses are actually still used today, which is pretty cool. Hot Springs, Arkansas may have been originally used as a spot for healing and spa treatments, but Hot Springs, Arkansas also has a very long history of lawlessness and attracted some of the most infamous murderers and mobsters because of their illegal speakisies during prohibition, backroom gamblings and prostitution. While all of this began as a hush-hush kind of operation that was happening, in 19. 1727, Mayor Leo McLaughlin was elected as mayor of the town, and he was like as corrupt as they come. He was accepting bribes and payoffs to police and other elected officials to allow these operations to run.
Starting point is 00:14:04 And part of his campaign when he was running for mayor was he wanted Hot Springs to be in quote unquote open city, which everyone meant knew that he wanted people to be drinking alcohol, participating in prostitution and gambling. And so he was elected because people wanted to open these things. So by the early 1930s, there were at least seven houses of prostitution that were open in Hot Springs. Numerous openly operated illegal gambling rings on horse racing, open gambling that was happening, and establishments serving alcohol during the prohibition before it eventually ended in 1933. So naturally, with a combination of all of these things, hot springs became a hot spot for vacation and gangstores. from Chicago and New York, including some of the biggest in history, Al Capone and Lucky Luchiano.
Starting point is 00:14:55 Many rival gangs actually settled in this area, but similar as I had mentioned with the natives, they also agreed that this was neutral territory between them as well. And rival mobs considered this area to be a place where they could all conjugate and not try to kill each other. So kind of like, what is it in the war when there's the area that it's like, I'm going to sound like such an idiot. Do you know what I'm saying? Like in different wars, there was an area that it was like just a truce, like between the lines, different. Do you know what I mean?
Starting point is 00:15:26 Like a neutral zone. I know. Yeah, kind of. Like you could go and pick up your injured soldiers and stuff like that. Yeah. Hold on. I kind of want to know what that means. I guess it is just called the neutral zone.
Starting point is 00:15:39 Okay. Okay. I thought there was something more to it. Great. That was so anti-climatic. Zone. The zone that is neutral. Yeah. Well, this all kind of sounds like Vegas before it was Vegas. That's interesting that you say that because we're also going to talk a little bit about Vegas in this episode and kind of how that ties in. Yeah. I went to the mob museum in Vegas. It was great.
Starting point is 00:16:05 Yeah. I'm sure that was super interesting. Yeah. It was awesome. Okay, anyway, go on. With all this little back history of Hot Springs National Park and what was going on there and the beginning introduction of the mobsters. I want to start our historic tour around Hot Springs and to the infamous places that gangsters spent their time and the mobster activities that were occurring. So we're going to visit the places in Hot Springs that the mobsters used to visit. This is a walking tour that, you know, like a fake walking tour. And you know they're my favorite. Yeah. This episode's for you.
Starting point is 00:16:38 I'm so excited. I'm also when we go to Austin, whenever that is in the next month or two, you know we're doing a historic dark walking. tour. Oh yeah. A dark, like at night? Or just morbid? Both. Oh, perfect. It's like, it's going to be haunted and you're going to be in cave. Let's go. It's not going to be at night and it's going to be morbid material. But anyway, okay, I'm going to shut up now. Okay, so we're going to start our historic tour at the Arlington Hotel. And this is where gangsters like Al Capone and Lucky Luciano stayed. It was also where politicians such as Franklin Roosevelt on Reagan and John F. Kennedy vacationed, along with famous families like the Rockefellers, athletes like Babe Ruth, and celebrities such as Elizabeth Taylor and Marilyn Monroe.
Starting point is 00:17:27 This hotel was a luxury hotel made up of 478 rooms, and all of these celebrities, mobsters, politicians, rich people made this their getaway for when they would visit Hot Springs, Arkansas. The Arlington Hotel you can see today in Hot Springs is not actually the the original hotel. So the original one was opened in 1875 and was created as this luxury gem of a resort for their upscale guests. Between the old hotel and the one that's standing today, they've hosted hundreds of grand balls and social events since 1875. The original was a wooden three-story structure that housed about 120 rooms at the time and at this time was the largest resort in the state. It had two-wing separated by this grand court, it had colonial porches that extended to Hot Springs Mountain
Starting point is 00:18:22 that is right behind it. And by the late 1880s, they added 100 more rooms and a new dining room and an additional parlor. But by 1893, they decided to destroy the entire hotel to make way for a larger, more luxurious version. And this hotel was set up different. It wasn't just this wooden structure on the mountain side. This one was more of a Spanish Renaissance style structure. with 300 rooms. It had five levels and included two twin tower structures. It was completed with massive oak staircases, with beautiful glass domes, verandas surrounding the building, and it had a grand ballroom. And after this one was completed, it was referred to as the most eloquent and complete hotel in America. But unfortunately, this hotel was destroyed in a fire on April 5,
Starting point is 00:19:11 1923. The Arlington Hotel was then built again, and this is the same one that stands today and is the same hotel that hosted the famous guests that I am going to mention throughout this episode. This time it was built with 560 rooms along with Grand Ballrooms, a Grand Lobby, a writing room, which is actually now a Starbucks, if you go in. It has a card room, which is now known as the Magnolia Room, and a board room, and the Venetian dining room, which is characterized by grand ceilings, paintings, and Italian-style architecture. They also included an in-house bathhouse with 50 rooms that have thermal water, which are still in use today.
Starting point is 00:19:52 So this is just like this grand, amazing, beautiful hotel where only like the rich, rich go. I mean, now you can get it for different, but back in the day, this was like the place. Okay, yeah. And the infamous mobster Al Capone was a frequent visitor to this hotel. In fact, he had a favorite room that he would always stay in, and that was room 443, which is now known as the Al Capone Suite. But at the time, it was also well known that when Al and his crew showed up, they took over the entire fourth floor. In fact, he would set up all his criminal operations from Hot Springs from the fourth floor.
Starting point is 00:20:30 And he often had his backroom gambling rooms with high-scale criminals that would also stay on that floor. And his whole thought to that was he wanted all of his people. to know who their neighbors were. They didn't want to have anything where they might be neighboring next to an enemy, even though it's neutral territory. Still, he wanted everyone to be neighbors, adjoining rooms, walk within each other, conduct their business. I mean, it's smart. Yeah, very smart. Smart business move. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders.
Starting point is 00:21:12 that perfect hang on the patio sundress, those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic.
Starting point is 00:21:34 Now who was Al Capone and what was he so infamous for? I think we've all heard the name, but do we know his entire story? Al Capone has been described by crime researcher, J. Robert Nash, as a murderous thug without remorse, street smart, clever, ingenious when it came to crime. He killed without compunction and at the whims of an unpredictable and murderous temperament. He killed his enemies and his friends. He killed his employer and his own henchman.
Starting point is 00:22:01 He was responsible for perhaps as many as 1,000 murders, certainly hundreds. Are you going to get just a very quick question? Are you going to get into like, I'm sure you won't? It's just kind of a side note of why we romanticize gang. that are so awful. And no, we can certainly, I didn't write it in my notes, but we can certainly get into it. I mean, I don't even know the answer. It's just odd.
Starting point is 00:22:25 It's so odd. And I'm not talking about people who, like, write into criminals, like, nowadays and even back then with, like, marriage proposals and, like, actually being in love with them. Like, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about just like this, like you mentioned earlier, the romanticized version of this bygone American gangster era. and kind of putting these people on pedestals that were so horrific, did so many horrible, awful things that if that happened today, they would be demonized for. Yeah, and I mean, maybe, but I also think that a big part of, at least in the American gangster era, was when you think of gangsters maybe today, it's not a romanticized thing.
Starting point is 00:23:08 But I think that part of why American gangsters are is because they dressed so well and they carried them. so appropriately in real life walking around and it was kind of a hidden thing. They were in the public in broad daylight walking around and they were someone that you saw and you knew there were something going on there but they were just like well dressed put together polite and they're rich. They have beautiful women around them. They have amazing cars. They have just I think the reason that they're romanticized so much is because they're so organized and they are perpetuated. it as these families. They're families of these criminal activities and it's horrific and it's horrible, but it's almost like this, there's so much mystery to it, which I think is what draws people to it so
Starting point is 00:23:58 much. Yeah, that's true. They just like upheld themselves to a very high standard that isn't seen today in organized crime. And I mean, it might be. It's just not publicly talked about. Like, I mean, these are all people who clearly got caught, which is why we know their story. or I wouldn't even say got caught, but we've found out enough about them that we know some of their story at least now. I mean, I'm sure there's people walking around now that may or may not have similar stories and we just don't know about it. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:24:29 And it has probably a lot to do with the time frame as well, like the 20s, 30s especially. I mean, even I look back. Yeah, in the 20s and 30s, I'm like, I would love to live in that time frame. And it's like when I actually think about it, I would hate to be a woman in the 20s and 30s. The worst. The worst. If I had to wear a corset every time I went out, I would, no. No.
Starting point is 00:24:53 No. Or, yeah, I could be a housewife. Yeah. Yeah, and just like be, I don't know. We're not, yeah, that's a side conversation. But yeah, so maybe it's something similar along just because it's like a time that we look back on in with rose colored glasses, if you will. Yeah, for sure. But going back to Al Capone, because I want to go in a little bit about his history.
Starting point is 00:25:15 and who he was and the kind of things that he did and things that we've heard about him, but maybe you don't know the full story. And I'm not by any means going to go into his entire life because that is like a whole research project on your own if you want to, but we'll definitely get into some of it. So in the 1920s, Al Capone ruled an empire of crime in Chicago. He ran gambling operations, prostitution rings, bootlegging during prohibition, participated in bribery, narcotics trafficking, robbery. protection rackets, whereas basically offering private security and henchmen and committing murder.
Starting point is 00:25:51 His operations were earning him over $60 million per year in the 1920s, which is, I don't know. One billion. Which is like a billion dollars a year. Yeah, he's living large. And many people have heard of Al Capone because of the movie that is not entirely a true story, but was inspired by the life of Al Capone, which is called Scarface. And everyone's heard of Scarface or seen it. Right.
Starting point is 00:26:15 Even me. Even I've seen Scarface. Which is saying something. Well, Al Capone earned the nickname Scarface from an altercation he had with a person at a bar when he was only 18. So Al was working at the Harvard Inn on Coney Island, which at the time was a bar in brothel, which was owned by a mobster named Frankie Yale. Al was a bouncer and worked at the bar there. And in August of 1917, while he was working, an attractive woman walked in that Al was interested in. She was with her brother Frank Galuccio and a date.
Starting point is 00:26:48 Al tried to talk to the woman, but she wasn't interested. He attempted several more times throughout the night without any interest from the woman. Some accounts say that he even sent over drinks to the entire group to get their attention. He even asked the woman if she would like to leave and go for a walk on the beach with him, to which she still refused. And she was a little annoyed at this point. So she went to her brother and asked him to tell Al to stop. but asked him to do it in a nice way.
Starting point is 00:27:16 Just be like, hey, can you tell him to leave me alone, but please be nice? And of course, her brother was not going to be nice. And he stated that he would deal with it, but he wanted the two women to wait outside for him. So as they're heading out to leave the building, Al pops up and appears again. And he allegedly said, quote, I'll tell you one thing, you got a nice ass, honey. And I mean that as a compliment. Right in front of her brother, Frank, who immediately gets. very mad and demanded an apology from Capone who just refused.
Starting point is 00:27:49 And just a few moments later, Frank took out a knife and managed to get three cuts to Al's face and upper neck before Al Capone fell to the ground. And then Frank ran out of the building. So that is how he got his nickname Scarface because after that he was rushed to the hospital where he had to receive 80 stitches and was then told there that he would have scars on his face forever. Wow. Mm-hmm.
Starting point is 00:28:13 It's interesting because I thought how that ended up being settled because you're like, oh, mobsters like fighting and getting, how is this going to turn out in the end? So the beef between them was actually settled in what you would kind of think would be a mobster way because the owner, who I mentioned Frankie Yale, was a gangster as well. And he actually ordered both of them to come back to the establishment to conduct a kind of their own trial, which was overseen by the other infamous. mob boss Charlie Lucky Luciano, who we will get into more later, but he was an Italian gangster in New York City and ran underground criminal operations and was infamous for hits that he had actually put out
Starting point is 00:28:56 on other mob bosses. So Frankie Yale ended up ordering Frank to pay Al Capone $1,500, which is about $27,000 today for permanently scarring his face. And in return, Al Capone was ordered to never retaliation. And Frankie ended this trial by stating, quote, I want to see both of you shake hands and consider this dispute over forever. Both of you agreed to abide by the decision made here today. And both of you understand that if either one of you breaks this contract, both me and Charlie promise you will go to the cemetery. Okay. Handled privately and no police involved, just like, hey, bygones, be bygones. It's settled.
Starting point is 00:29:41 It's settled. I know you're talking a lot about Chicago-based stuff, but it just sparked something in my mind that Ian and I watched a series on Netflix a couple years ago about mobs in the 70s, 60s, based in New York and all about how like New York was like battling all of this organized crime and stuff. And I think it's called Fear City. So if you're like on a mob kick after this, you should watch. I think it's only like three or four episodes. It's really limited series, but it's really cool. Yeah, I mean, when you look into it, these gangsters and mafia and everything, they were having full on wars inside of these cities with each other with rivals. And it's really interesting. There's a lot. And with law enforcement. And with law enforcement, yeah, the ones that weren't paid off
Starting point is 00:30:31 or whatever. Right. I mean, they're scary people, you know. But I want to go a little bit more into Al Capone's early life because he was actually originally born in New York City in 18, to Italian immigrants. So he was an Italian American, and he was expelled from school at age 14 after he hit a female teacher in the face. He then joined small time gangs in New York City before he eventually moved to Chicago in 1919. Now he started out his career there as a security guard at a brothel where part of his position offered him time with the women there. And very shortly after that, he contracted syphilis. At the time there was treatment for syphilis, but Al Capone,
Starting point is 00:31:10 I don't know, maybe out of embarrassment or just not realizing I'm not sure, he never got treatment. He just kind of ignored it, put it to a side burner. So over the next several years in Chicago, he worked his way up in the Italian-American mafia and began many of his illegal operations. He has been specifically noted for his bootlegging operations and his ability to expand them through very violent means, while also keeping a very friendly relationship with the Chicago's mayor and the Chicago Police Department. So he was essentially just getting away with everything in Chicago. He was running it all. He was.
Starting point is 00:31:47 While he mostly was avoiding the eye of law enforcement, one day in history did bring attention to him and a public outcry addressing the prohibition era and the need for government control over alcohol distribution. So that day is now known as the St. Valentine's Day Massacre, which was carried out by Al Capone's gang, who murdered seven members of a rival gang in competition for business and alcohol distribution. And this other rival gang had commandeered some shipments from Al Capone's gang. So in retaliation, he, in cold blood, took seven men, lined them up against a wall in a warehouse with four men. Two were dressed as police officers and shot them all right there. Yeah, I saw that wall. the mob museum with all the bullet holes in it and all the shells and everything are there. Oh, wow. It's crazy. That is crazy that you can go see it. When Chicago police arrived at the scene,
Starting point is 00:32:41 they did find one man, despite being shot 14 times, was still alive. They brought him to the hospital where doctors were able to actually stabilize him and police tried to question him on who had done it. Like, who shot you, who did this? To which this guy responded and he said, no one shot me. and then died a few hours later. Which I just, I mean, if you're in the mafia or whatever gang you're in, you don't tell anything. You don't talk. You don't talk. That's the first rule of you're going to survive this.
Starting point is 00:33:14 You don't talk. And of course, Al Capone was not part of this. It was his gang, but he was actually in Florida at the time and he created an airtight alibi. So to this day, no one knows exactly who in his gang committed the murders. But it is known that it was supposed to be part of the assassination of another mob boss, Bugs Moran. But Bugs Moran, who was supposed to be at that location, was actually late for a barber's appointment. And he wasn't in the location that Al Capone's gang believed he would be in, and he missed this assassination attempt. Great.
Starting point is 00:33:50 I mean, I don't know how things turned out for him. Yeah. But with this increased use of violence and the upscale. I say upscale, but just these huge operations and having a target on his own back, Al Capone had security and gang members nearby all the time. And he infamously drove a bulletproof Cadillac around. And it said he had like one of the first armored cars that existed. So bulletproof glass, bulletproof everything.
Starting point is 00:34:25 This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Kind of heading back into the National Park a bit, Al Capone's ongoing battle with syphilis
Starting point is 00:35:03 was how Hot Springs, Arkansas was really put into his eyesight. So he actually grew up going there and he knew about the area and he loved the area. But he believed that his battle with syphilis, he could be healed by using the Hot Springs in Hot Springs National Park. But when he arrived, he also realized that it was a hotbed for gambling and it was the first site for Major League Baseball Spring Training. And he saw that there was this huge business opportunity there. So he settled into Hot Springs to expand his gambling and his bootlegging business. He spent a lot of his time between Chicago and Hot Springs. And in Hot Springs, he would actually strike deals with moonshiners in Arkansas to ship illegal liquor and tanker railroad cars with the label Mountain Valley Water as a cover. Smart. When he did
Starting point is 00:35:53 venture down to Arkansas for security reasons, he would rent out the entire train to bring him and his men down with him and he would also bring his bulletproof Cadillac along as well. He would have that ship down with him so he could drive around in style and also still be in his bulletproof catac. He would check into the Arlington Hotel under the alias of Al Brown and him and his gang would work and play from the fourth floor. He wanted his men to have the entire floor like I said before and his favorite room was 443 because it overlooked all the bars and casinos and nightlife that was in hot springs. Nice bird's eye view. Mm-hmm.
Starting point is 00:36:32 He's like, this is my land. This is my domain. And even though Al Capone is obviously this infamous mob boss and brutal and violent, in Hot Springs, he was known as a very polite and kind guest. While the hotel could probably guess what was going on there, they avoided his business and he was known to be courteous and tip well and speak to everyone very kindly. He was like a pleasure, a pleasure to have in class. basically. They basically just turned a blind die. Yeah. They're like, you're up to some shit. Let's
Starting point is 00:37:05 be friends. So I don't die. We're not getting involved. Yeah, we're not getting involved. But you can pay us. But you can pay us. That's fine. But in one story reported from a housekeeper at the hotel and she was referred to as Aunt Bessie had her own interaction with Al Capone and his gang while she was working there. So she was on the fourth floor cleaning some of the adjoining suites when she left a room and then went into the hallways to get her cart and she moved it into the next doorway. But they were the same room. She was just entering through another doorway. And when she used her key card to open the door, she was met by several men who were sitting at a table playing cards, the same men she had just seen before. And they all drew guns at her when they opened the door. Al Capone suddenly comes in
Starting point is 00:37:49 from an adjoining room and the men lowered their weapons. And he quietly and politely gave Aunt Bessie a $100 bill and reminded her that she should always enter through the same doorway she leaves through when him and his men are present. They're like, you don't just open a door here. Yeah, not around these parts. You don't. We don't know you. We know who's here. Like, you don't just open a door. And she was like, okay, holy, molly. Yikes. And the Arlington Resort Hotel and Spa, like I mentioned before, is still standing today and you can book your own stay there. They host weddings, business meetings. They have a spa and a salon along with several dining and bar options. And you can actually also call the hotel and book a room in 443, which is Al Capone's suite. And it is one of the most
Starting point is 00:38:36 photographed parts of the hotel and the door even has a plaque that says Al Capone's suite on it. The entire room has been updated since his stay there except for two things. The bathroom tile and the bathtub are the originals from the same time when Al Capone stayed there. But also if you stay anywhere on the fourth floor, the hotel you'll be in the same rooms that Al Capone used and his gang. So wherever you stay on the fourth floor, there was criminal activity right where you're standing or sleeping. I'm sure that's such an attraction. Like that's such a draw to that hotel. It has to be. It has to be. I mean, they said right on the websites that I was looking at, it's like most photographed part of the hotel. And the hotel is beautiful. Like I mentioned, it had that Italian
Starting point is 00:39:16 architecture and giant ceilings and it's beautiful. People are like, I'm going to go photograph this door. with Al Capone's napalant. I mean, it's like the Stanley. Anytime I go to the Stanley, people are flooded there for a reason. Yeah, the building's cool in and it of itself, but everyone's the history and people are like, Stephen King and the whole, you know, the whole Shabay. The history is what gets people. Now Al Capone, even though I've been mentioning him a lot, he was not the only famous
Starting point is 00:39:43 gangster to make Hot Springs a hideout vacation area. Mob boss I mentioned earlier, Charles Lucky Luciano, Oni Madden, and Brayton. Bugsy Seagal were also frequent visitors, among many others. But the next location we're going to in Hot Springs, which is the Ohio Club, was a known meeting place for these notorious mobsters. So we're going to head to another spot in Hot Springs. Before we get to know the Ohio Club, I do want to introduce you to these infamous characters so you can kind of put yourself as a fly the wall if you were to walk into the Ohio club back in the 1920s
Starting point is 00:40:19 to see what kind of guys were sitting there enjoying a glass of whiskey and gambling there. Charles Lucky Luciano was an Italian born but operated as a gangster in the United States. And he earned his nickname Lucky from surviving an assassination attempt
Starting point is 00:40:35 where he was severely beaten by three men and had his throat slashed in retaliation of his refusal to work for another mob boss that he was lucky to survive. He was also said to be historically lucky while gambling and had been arrested over 25 times with no charges filed against him. So they nicknamed him lucky. I mean, he earned it. Yeah. Like, if you're going through that, I mean, I guess you're lucky or I guess it's whatever you're
Starting point is 00:41:00 looking at it, right? Like, maybe you're lucky. Maybe you're in some bad, some bad stuff. He is considered the father of organized crime in the United States. He formed a governing body of the Italian American mafia known as the Commission in 1931. His idea was to create a common ground between different gangs in which the Italian, Jewish, and Irish gangs could all pull their resources
Starting point is 00:41:23 and create a lucrative crime business for everyone. It's like, let's all get rich. He ran illegal gambling, prostitution, and bootlegging operations in New York that extended into Philadelphia and he was making over $12 million a year. In 1929, Luchiano was forced into a limousine at gunpoint by three men who beat and stabbed him severely and then hung him up
Starting point is 00:41:46 by his hands to a beam inside of a warehouse. He survived, but his face was scarred and he was left with one droopy eye. So he's just one of the guys that you're going to run into walking into this Ohio club back in the 1920s. Is that the beating he survived? No, that's a different one. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. He's so lucky. He's a star. But he cries. Christ. Yes, guys. Okay. On to Ony Madden, who was another frequent visitor of the Ohio Club, he was a gangster born in Britain but had Irish roots. He was nicknamed the killer because of two public murders that he committed, one from a rival gang and one of a civilian he had an argument
Starting point is 00:42:38 with in the streets. He was the leader of a gang known as the Gopher Gang, which was a highly feared organization of Irish descent. He was a leading figure. year in New York during the Prohibition era. And eventually he served some time in prison because of a murder of a rival gang member. But part of a condition for his release for parole was that he would no longer be able to live in New York City. He violated his parole and was sent back to prison for several more months. But after that, he left for good and he made Hot Springs, Arkansas, his new home. And he moved all his criminal activity down to Hot Springs. So he's sitting at the Ohio Club. And then there's Bugsie Sigal, who was an American mobster who was part of the
Starting point is 00:43:16 Jewish mob and a bootlegger during Prohibition. When Prohibition was repealed in 1933 and alcohol was legal. He switched to gambling. Much of his time as a mobster was actually spent as a hitman, but he was also one of the main driving forces of the creation of the Las Vegas Strip. He was known to quote unquote borrow money from celebrities in which he would never pay back because he knew that none of these celebrities would dare ask for it. He attempted to build beautiful buildings along the Las Vegas Strip before it was the Las Vegas Strip. And although his projects weren't fully successful, his idea and his projects were the inspiration for other people to take over and create what is now the Las Vegas strip. And before Vegas became what it is, Hot Springs, Arkansas was like the Vegas. And that was
Starting point is 00:44:08 his favorite vacation spot. Gotcha. Gotcha. So he was also sitting at the Ohio Club. just a casual hitman, just drinking his drink there, gambling. Sounds like somewhere I would not want to frequent. Was this open to the public or like what? Oh, yeah. Okay. So going into the bar a little bit, the Ohio Club is Arkansas's oldest continually operating bar because it never shut down during Prohibition era.
Starting point is 00:44:33 It first opened in 1905 as a bar in casino, but in 1913, the Arkansas General Assembly outlawed gambling and then just a few years after, in 1919, the production sale and distribution of alcohol was outlawed nationwide. After this, the Ohio Club officially became the Ohio Cigar Store, but it was all a front. The shophouse cigars, but it doubled as a speakeasy with a false wall that hid their operations. People go walk in, buy some cigars, sure, but if you knew what it actually was, you could go through the false wall and go to the back, where the bar continued to run on the main floor, and then on the second floor, they had gambling tables and they also housed live music back there.
Starting point is 00:45:16 Baseball legend, Babe Ruth frequented this club and it also said that President Theodore Roosevelt visited as well. Al Capone was a frequent visitor of this club and was known to come in to enjoy a Templeton Rye whiskey. Many gangsters were known to congregate here to meet to have discussion with their bookies often on illegal horse racing gambling. So you can just kind of imagine the moonshining deals and gambling rings that were conducted inside of the walls of the Ohio Club. And because of all this, it is now on the list of national historic places. I would love to go there now. Yeah. Now. Yeah. Now would be really cool. It is still open today to visit and it is a place where you can go see live music. It still carries the reminiscence of a speakeasy with the same massive mahogany car
Starting point is 00:46:04 bar that was there during Prohibition era. It has big brick wall. It has big brick wall. walls. You can sit down and enjoy the same drinks that mobsters did. And the club often advertises things on their menu that are reminiscent of mobsters like the Al Capone drink that is made with Templeton Rye whiskey or the gangster margarita. They also have food options that often include the name of famous gangsters. So they really incorporate the history that's there. They're doing it right. They are. It's a what a draw. I already want to go. Yeah, they're hooking us in. Literally when I researched this episode, I was thinking how I wish we went to Hot Springs because there's so much cool.
Starting point is 00:46:44 I know. We did try. I will say, though, if I had went without knowing this history, I don't think it would be as exciting as it is now that I know it. So now we really have to book a trip down there. That's true. I did know, like obviously because on the park page they do say like there's sections about the gangster history and the mobsters and stuff, but it's not as in depth.
Starting point is 00:47:05 So, like, we would have known, but not really known. Not really. Yeah. So lastly, on our little historic tour, we're going to visit Bath House Row inside of Hot Springs National Park. The Bath House Row was where the gangsters, among many other people, came for relaxation and medicinal healing during their vacations. Like I mentioned, Al Capone was here to try and cure his syphilis if you want a bath in his
Starting point is 00:47:28 water. No, it's not his water. But Bath House Row is a National Historic Landmark that is owned by the National National Park Service and consists of the bathhouses that were built between 1892 and 1923. And as I mentioned before, they were first constructed with weak wooden structures, but they frequently burned or collapsed due to bad construction and continued exposure to high temperatures and humidity from the hot springs. They were built along hot springs creek, but with so many people visiting the waters, it became
Starting point is 00:47:59 really polluted. And it was also experiencing issues of flooding during high rain seasons and experiencing extremely low waters during drier seasons. In 1882, the government enclosed hot springs creek in an underground arch for flood and sewage control. And because they did this, kind of just covered up this creek, it created more land and landscape to build up the area in front of bathhouse row. These bathhouses that were built still stand within the park today, but they do look a little bit different because of how I mentioned earlier, they reconstructed them a few times. They're these gorgeous buildings now. They're huge. And I just want to go over each of the bathhouses so you can
Starting point is 00:48:38 learn about them a little bit. Hale Bath House, which is the oldest bathhouse in the row, now has been changed into Hale Hotel, which is a luxury hotel with historic rooms and amenities that still allow you to enjoy the thermal springs. Buckstaff Bath House is the only bathhouse in the row that has been in constant operation since it opened. Today, you can still visit it and have an authentic traditional bathing experience that you would have back in the day. The Maurice bathhouse is a three-story 23,000 square foot bathhouse that has gymnasiums, state rooms, and an area that once housed a rooftop garden and was the only bathhouse to have a massive pool inside of it. It closed in November of 1974, and today it stands totally vacant, waiting for someone to lease it and to reopen it,
Starting point is 00:49:26 if anyone has any ideas. The Ford Ice Bath House was the most luxurious, and largest bathhouse when it originally opened. It has three floors and two courtyards. Today, it is now the National Park Visitor Center. Oh, cool. So cool. Yeah. The Ozark Bathhouse was considered a less luxurious one and was made for the middle class
Starting point is 00:49:48 who didn't want to pay as much for the luxuries and the architecture, so it was made more of a simple building. It is 14,000 square feet and at one time had 27 bathtubs. Today, it stands as the Hot Springs National Park Cultural Center, and it is home to gallery spaces for local artists. So you can still go in there and visit. And lastly, and probably my favorite of the stories, I haven't been to any of these, but probably my favorite, is the superior bathhouse, and it is the smallest on the row. They used to offer minimal services, just basic hydrotherapy and massage services. It was meant to appeal to people seeking health benefits of the waters.
Starting point is 00:50:27 Now, it was closed in November of 1983 and it was vacant until 2013 when it reopened as a brewery. It is now called the Superior Bathhouse Brewery and it is the only brewery inside of any national park in the United States. Unique. Very unique. It is also the only brewery in the world that uses thermal water as a main ingredient in their beer. I was just going to say, do they use the water. They sure do. They feel like they have to. They have to. They have to. They serve food and lots of different beers and they often use mobster history in their names. And sometimes even in their recipes, which I thought was really cool. I found an old article.
Starting point is 00:51:06 It was from 2016. So I'm not sure if they still have this on tap or anything. But at one point, they did have a beer called Madden's number one beer. And they actually used the same recipe as the mobster, only Madden did during Prohibition. So you could drink the same beer that was happening back then. I hope they still do something like that because it's really intriguing. Like even if you're like, ugh, this is disgusting. Like, at least you can drink it because this is history.
Starting point is 00:51:35 Right. Yeah, exactly. I'm drinking history, liquid history right here. So that one was cool. I thought all those places were really fun to know about if you're going to visit Hot Springs National Park. So that's my little tour of the whole. There's so many historic buildings there.
Starting point is 00:51:50 And in Hot Springs in the city, within the national park, there's trails and things that you can do. so it's certainly not the only things, but those are just the ones that I wanted to touch on. But I also wanted to touch on in this episode what happened to these gangsters that I've talked about as well. Like their ends? Their ends. Okay. I encourage you all to read about them and learn about them, but they've all met their ends
Starting point is 00:52:14 in very different ways. Lucky Luciano eventually was convicted for his brothel and call girl empire that he was running and he was convicted for 30 to 50 years in prison, but he continued to run his business from behind bars. He was just like, okay, I'm in prison, but I'm still making money and I'm going to be controlling and running shit up here. But in 1942, during World War II, the U.S. government was concerned about German and Italian troops
Starting point is 00:52:41 entering the U.S. through the New York City waterfront. And at the time, it was known that the mafia and Lucky Luciano was the one running the waterfront. and they had full control over it. So the government actually constructed a secret deal with Luciano to protect the waterfront and relay any intelligence to the U.S. Navy in return for Luciano's release on the condition that he leave the U.S. So I'll say he's lucky again. He was sent to prison for 50 years and the U.S. Navy is like, hey, we'll let you out,
Starting point is 00:53:12 but help us out with your criminal activity. But also get out of here. But please leave you're causing a mess. Yeah. And he agreed. and he was deported back to Italy where he continued to run illegal operating rings in other countries until January 26, 1962, when he was at an international airport to meet with an American film producer who wanted to do a movie on his life. While he was there that day, he died of a heart attack at the airport at the age of 64 years old.
Starting point is 00:53:42 Wow. Ony Madden eventually retired from the gangster lifestyle, although he has been accused of running some gambling rings and Hot Springs in his older age, he died after suffering from chronic emphysema at the age of 73 in Hot Springs, Arkansas. So he kind of, he got out and died an old man. Bugsy Seagall continued to try and build up Las Vegas, mostly focusing on the Flamingo, which today stands as a hotel and casino, on the evening of June 20th, 1947, when he was visiting an associate at their home in Beverly Hills, California. An unknown assailant fired at him through the window. hitting him several times, including twice in the head.
Starting point is 00:54:23 Many theorized his murder was due to his excessive spending of the Bob's money on the Flamingo. And the following day after his death, a photo of Seagal's foot in the morgue with his name tag was featured on the front page of Los Angeles Herald Express. He was only 41 years old when he died. And lastly, Al Capone. In October of 1931, Al Capone was convicted of tax evasion and conspiracy to violate Prohibition laws for the years of 1922 to 1931. He was sentenced to 11 years in prison and $50,000 in fines, which I think is pretty funny what he was convicted of because it said conspiracy to violate
Starting point is 00:55:03 prohibition laws when he ran like the biggest prohibition ring in Chicago, like conspiracy to maybe commit a crime. I feel like yeah, it's like all they could get him on at the time. So they just took it. Yeah. And tax evasion. Even though he murdered what they think up to a thousand people or whatever, like tax evasion. But he was sentenced and he began his sentence at the Atlanta penitentiary, but in August, 1934, he was actually transferred to Alcatraz in San Francisco. However, Al Capone was still suffering from untreated syphilis and at this late stage of the disease, he had severe symptoms. He was now suffering from neurocifilis, which is an infection of the brain and spinal cord caused by the bacteria. He was suffering neurological issues that caused him to be confused, suffer from seizures,
Starting point is 00:55:52 and he was experiencing difficulties like walking and maneuvering his body. He was unable to follow instructions from the guards and was reported to just sit sometimes with a strange grin on his face, and sometimes he would dress up in his winter jacket and gloves, even though his cell was warm, and it just seemed completely out of it. And then other times he appeared lucid. Because of this, his wife, he was married and by all accounts it is reported that they had a happy marriage despite the whole crime life. His wife begged the warden to release him because of his cognitive difficulties and they said no, but they ended up investigating what was going on with him and when he was officially diagnosed with syphilis by the prison, they decided to release him and he was officially
Starting point is 00:56:40 released on November 16, 1939. His condition over the next several years, years only deteriorated and on January 25th, 1947, he died of heart failure in his home in Florida. And he was only 48 years old. God, that's so crazy. Like, to hear that they were so young and they lived such big lives. Such big lives, but at a high cost, I mean, they were all, people tried to murder all of them. They were all attacked. They all survived gunshot wounds and knife wounds.
Starting point is 00:57:12 And then they all died young except for the one who, left the business so yeah i think i think i'm thinking of um was it jimmy hoffa that's never been found he's like one of the biggest mob bosses around and he like he disappeared i think in the 70s he's never been found and they obviously suspect that a hit was put on him and his body has just never been recovered and it's like one of the biggest mysteries in mob history it's funny because there's actually some articles that come up as early as july of 2022 and and it says search for Hoffa under Jersey City Bridge came up empty FBI says. So they're still searching for him.
Starting point is 00:57:53 Yeah. Yeah. It's the first thing that comes up when you look him up. It's interesting. I'm sure it'll never be found, especially if a hit was put out on him. They from people like that, you don't talk. And you make sure you clean up your mess too. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:58:07 So if you're planning to visit Hot Springs National Park, there is so much mob lore that is there. And there is actually a little gangster museum. It's the Gangster Museum of America, and it looks like it's a pretty small building, but they have galleries and exhibits of the gangster history there, and they'll teach you more in depth about their lives and who is there and go into more people, because I just picked a handful for the sake of this episode. But, yeah, Hot Springs National Park, if you want to go hiking, explore the outdoors a little bit in the thermal pools, and then also head into like the actual city part and explore the crazy history that's happened there. So much. So much stuff has gone on there. The energy there must be wild. We have to go.
Starting point is 00:58:48 After researching this. I don't know when maybe 2026 is looking pretty good. But if other people go, other people, you guys should plan a trip and send us pictures and tell us about it. Because even looking at the hotels and stuff, it just reminded me a places that you would love. I know. I know. So much. So historic.
Starting point is 00:59:09 Got to go during the warmer months in the summer. just feel like it would be a whole vibe. That would be awesome. Well, 2006, like, we'll circle back. Here we come. We'll see you in 2020. Get ready. Get ready. All right. Well, cool. Thanks for taking us through that park and sharing some of the mob history. And I guess we'll see everyone next week. Yeah. In the meantime, enjoy the view. But watch you're back. Bye, guys. Bye. Thank you so much for joining us again this week. If you have a trail or story suggestion, send us an email at Stories at npaddpodcast.com.
Starting point is 00:59:53 Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at National Park After Dark and on Twitter at NPAD podcast. Join our outsiders-only community on Patreon or Apple subscriptions to listen ad-free, unlock monthly bonus episodes, and exclusive content. And remember, when you support our sponsors, you are supporting our show. For our exclusive discount codes and source information from today's episode, check out the show notes. For more information on our show, our book recommendations, merch updates, and more, visit our website at npaddpodcast.com. And please rate, review, and subscribe from wherever you listen to podcasts. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind.
Starting point is 01:00:42 Here's a helpful fact you may not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressives save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.