National Park After Dark - The Mann Gulch Fire Tragedy: Helena-Lewis and Clark National Forest

Episode Date: September 2, 2024

When a fire broke out in Helena National Forest, the newly established Smokejumpers crew were sent to manage it. The fire proved to be larger and more dangerous than anyone could have predicted and when the winds changed, the men found themselves fighting for their lives. Many lives were lost and to this day it remains as one of the worst tragedies in wild land history.For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!AG1: Try AG1 and get a FREE bottle of Vitamin D3K2 AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase at drinkAG1.com/NPAD.BetterHelp: National Park After Dark is sponsored by BetterHelp. Get 10% off.3 Day Blinds:  For their buy 1 get 1 50% off deal, head to 3DayBlinds.com/NPAD.Two Girls One Ghost: Listen wherever you find your favorite podcasts.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Close your eyes. Focus. Listen to work getting done with Monday.com. Relax. As AI does the manual work, while your teams are aligned on a single source of truth. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform, so flexible and intuitive, it feels like it was built just for you. Notice you're limitless.

Limitless. Now open your eyes. Go to Monday.com. Start for free and finally. Breathe. The very first wildland firefighter program was established in 1885. Of course, we also know that for hundreds of years before that, indigenous people around the country had used fire as a tool to manage the land for thousands of years. Fire, while it can be destructive, is also necessary for a healthy environment.

Knowing that now, it seems silly that there was a time in the 19th century when we attempted to ban all fires from the forest. Many of our present fire problems stem from not addressing the need for it for so long. Today we have more than 11,000 wildland firefighters, and among them are an elite crew of smoke jumpers. Through years of training and research, they've figured out ways to help manage fires and protect the public by being the first ones on the scene when they ignite. But with anything, they're always learning, and sometimes the biggest lessons stem from the largest tragedies. Welcome to National Park After Dark. Surprise.

Surprise, surprise. You can see us. Kind of. I know. If you know where to look. Welcome back, everyone, to National Park After Dark. This is Cassie. And this is Danielle.

And if you are listening, if you're new here, or if you've been listening for a really long time, we have something to tell you. if you are not here yet, but we have launched a YouTube channel. And now you can listen to these stories and our podcast on YouTube. And you can actually see us. So if you are on YouTube, hi. This is our cases. And if you're not, head on over.

You can find us if you just type in National Park After Dark Podcast. We're right there. And you can check this episode out there. Yeah. And we have been hard at work kind of backloging our entire catalog. for YouTube and it's kind of I mean like you won't see anything but I guess if you want to listen on the platform to any other of our older episodes they're there but as far as from now going forward we're going to try and make every episode a visual one as well so welcome I have my

I honestly don't know how long this chair is going to last as my podcasting chair but it is my favorite chair. So I'm trying, but it's so loud. Like I have to, I'm going to be a statue. Oh. Do you hear? There it is. It's, it's an antique. It's over 130 years old. And it's beautiful. Very fitting, very creaky. If you want to see it. But yeah, so I'll probably switch it up eventually, but I'm trying to make it last because it's an aesthetic, I guess. It is. It's definitely a vibe. I have two chairs. I have my office chair and then I have the one, go this way. I have the one behind me, which is also my like research chair, but I have a feeling when you're telling stories more often, I'm going to be hanging out in that chair. But for the purpose

of our setup right now, I have all my notes like kind of right here. So it's easier for me to sit in my office chair at my desk. Yeah, I'm sure we'll grow and evolve and change like scenery and I don't know if I'll stay here or not in front of my little gallery wall. But anyways, so that's the first order of business. We're on YouTube. And the other thing is we have behind the scenes for the last like month or so been brainstorming ways to revamp and refresh our Patreon. And we have done so.

And it is now live. Yeah. So if you are not familiar with our Patreon, go check it out. we have a lot more stuff that we're offering. And I guess the biggest things that are new changes, if you haven't been on there before, before we've had ad-free episodes, bonus content, things like that. But now we're doing monthly live stream episodes where you can come hang out with us. We have trivia, park news, park stories, whatever we're kind of feeling that week is what we do, but it's interactive. So you can all join us. But the other thing that we're really,

really excited about to have on our Patreon is we are officially starting, which has been asked for a while, we are officially starting a National Park After Dark book club that will be available for Patreon members. Yeah, so we have a lot of new offerings. You can check out the different tiers. We added a tier. We were feeling silly and just wanted to add some more stuff. So you can check that out.

It's all linked in the show notes and our social media, everything. So if you're interested in joining our community, it's a fun one. and you can find the links wherever. Maybe we can link it somewhere in this video. You know, when people are like right here. And it like comes up right here. Yeah. How does YouTube work?

Can we do that right? Here and here. Like subscribe. I don't know. I'm so this is beyond me. But anyway. So yeah, those are two biggest pieces of news. Yeah.

So I guess we can go right into the story. We'll see how long it is. It's definitely this is one that I did read a book speaking of book clubs and things if people are looking for a story and a book recommendation, this will be a fire episode and goes into a lot of fire history, but specifically a tragedy that happened within wildland firefighting. And I found this book. I have my Kindle right here to show you, but I read it on my Kindle. It's called Young Men and Fire by Norman McLean. It's a really interesting book because it goes over this tragic story of the Mangulch Fire that was in

1949 and the person who wrote it was actually there and saw the fire happening. Although they weren't on the scene, they did heavy research into it and they talked to all the people who were. And also the person who wrote it actually passed away before he finished it. So then other people had to finish the book for him and now it's published. Okay. Yeah, very interesting. So like I said today, I'm going to be telling the tragic story of the man Gulch fire of 1949. And the reason that happened was it was a dry summer combined with lightning strikes that happened in Montana's Helena National Forest that sparked a wildfire in a remote area along the Missouri River. Due to its location, some of the most elite firefighters in the wildland world, a smoke jumper team was flown to manage the fire.

Shortly after they arrived, unexpected high winds caused it to engulf their escape route and the crew was left fighting for their lives. Several smokejumpers died that day, and their deaths have gone down in history within the wildland world, but it has also served as a huge reminder of not only how dangerous wildland firefighting is, but how important it is, and their deaths sparked an upheaval of the policies surrounding wildland firefighting. So that's why I thought it was important to tell this story today. So before we go into the story, I do want to familiarize everyone with the area that it took place in. So Helena National Forest is in the western central part of Montana and covers almost one million acres of land.

It is most widely known as being part of the region of the country of where the Lewis and Clark expedition took place. And while the park is separated by several regions, our story takes place in the gates of the mountain wilderness. And this is a remote area of the park that has hardly changed since the Lewis and Clark expedition in the early 1800s and was named after. after it. And part of why it hasn't changed is because it's so remote, too, but the landscape has been left preserved. And this area is stunning. There's giant gray limestone cliffs that surround the Missouri River, and the river runs through the region along with these amazing, incredible mountain views. And when Lewis and Clark first laid their eyes on it, Lewis wrote something about it, and I wrote his direct quote that he had wrote. He said,

this evening we entered the most remarkable cliffs that we have seen yet. These cliffs rise from the water's edge on each side perpendicular to the height of 1,200 feet. The river appears to have forced its way through its immense body of solid rock for the distance of 5 and 3 fourths miles. I call it the gates of the rocky mountains. It is such a stunning area that it's been considered to be transitioned from a national forest into a national park, not just once, but actually three times it's been on the docket. Oh, wow. Yeah, so people really love this area.

And it was proposed to the National Park Service in 1922, 1935, and also in the 1960s, but each time it was found to not meet the full criteria of a national park. So national parks have these huge criteria that they have to meet and they have to have significant value in different categories before they can be deemed a national park. So unfortunately, this area has been deemed not worthy of a national park, but it is a really important ecosystem. And eventually in 1964, it was designated as a wilderness area under the Wilderness Act in addition to its national forest status. So there are really big protections here. Girl, winter is so last season.

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It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. The location of our tragic fire story today is known as Mangulch, and it's a V-shaped valley extending over two miles before it connects with. the Missouri River. This area is nine miles away from the closest interstate, making it remote and also very difficult to get to. While the area has no structures or civilization, it does serve as an important tourist destination because of its incredible beauty. When the man gulch fire ignited that day in August of 1949, smoke jumpers were called in not just to save people, but to preserve this beloved

landscape. The decision to call them would later receive some scrutiny because of this. because there weren't any people that they were actually going in to save. It was just specifically because this landscape was really pretty. Gotcha. Okay. On the evening of August 4th, 1949, a summer storm hovered over Helena Valley. While the rain had been relatively normal that year, the past week had been filled with historic record high temperatures around 100 degrees Fahrenheit, which is 37 degrees Celsius. By the time the sun had set that night, five wildfires. had sparked in the valley, however, three of them had quickly went out, leaving just two of them,

still going. The following morning, District Ranger John Jansen, who was in charge of the fire monitoring in that area, awoke more concerned than usual. He just woke up with this horrible feeling that the weather conditions and lightning were creating a very dangerous environment for fires to get out of hand. And he was so concerned that he changed the protocol for that day. At 6 a.m. he had a pilot fly over the forest in search of wildfires to report back on. And that was unusual. Usually they went out a little bit later than that. But he just woke up and was like something's not right. Something wrong is going to happen. And we need to be on top of it. I feel like a lot of these stories we always hear of somebody having a premonition. Yeah. It's like trust your intuition. It's so hard to say that. Like trust your intuition when you don't know what's going to happen. But like maybe next time you're like thinking something. All that. you know, I think every time I get on a plane, I'm going to die. So maybe not trust it too much. So it's anxiety. But is that, yeah, that's the thing. Is it your anxiety or is it your intuition? And How do you tell the difference? I'm doing, well, I'm doing, I'll let you know because I'm doing a course about intuitive

development and things like that. And it talks a lot about, is it anxiety and nervousness and your kind of monkey mind, they call it, or is it something else in intuitive information and gut feelings and how to interpret that and separate it and things like that? But anyways, I don't know. I just wanted to say it's always kind of like a key element and a lot of stories of tragedies. Yeah. Of somebody having some sort of feeling about what unfolds eventually. And I just find that really interesting. Yeah, there's always not with everyone, but there's always an inkling. Someone always comes forward later and it's like, you know, I really felt like something wasn't right that day and I was already concerned. And he's definitely feeling that, you know. And he was really adamant about it throughout that morning. So by 8 a.m., a report came back that there were no new fires. And the ones that had started were under control. They weren't something that they needed to worry about. But he still had this like really bad feeling that something was wrong. So he had an employee go, go, go. out on patrol at 11 a.m. And this was something that didn't usually happen. And he also decided that he was

going to go out himself via an airplane to investigate. Because he's like, you guys went over, you didn't see anything, but I feel like I'm going to see something. And he flew over the man gulch at 11 a.m. And he didn't see anything. He reported back that he also didn't see any fires. However, at 1218, the first official report came back from a fire lookout named Don Barrow. Barker. Don Barker had been assigned to sit on top of the nearby Colorado Mountain lookout to report any fires that he saw and he reported smoke in the area of Man Gulch. Ranger Jansen, who had just flown over there shortly before, couldn't believe it and he took off in his plane again to check it out. And sure enough, when he got there, there were huge plumes of smoke coming from

that region. A fire had formed in a very steep, rocky part of the slopes and had spread to be about eight acres in just one hour. While he observed that most of it was a ground fire, which meant that it should grow slowly since it was too low to catch on any branches on the taller trees, there was a small section of a crown fire. And what a crown fire means is that the fire was tall enough to catch on the taller limbs and jump from canopy to canopy, canopy of the trees. So instead of just like igniting in the grass, you know, catching on sticks and whatever's on the ground. Now there's this area of the fire that's jumping from tree to tree and it's getting bigger and bigger. And the problem with that is it can speed up the spread of a fire pretty significantly. And

this can indicate extreme fire behavior. So he comes back and he reports back on his findings also stating that he saw a good spot for a group of smoke jumpers to land into. So he's already thinking, okay, let's get some smoke jumpers out here. And smoke jumpers at the time were a very new unit of wildland firefighting. They had. had only been established for about 10 years. The idea began as a means to be able to quickly arrive to fires by parachuting into the areas that they were located. And a major draw to this was that previously wildland firefighters would have to hike out to these remote areas, carrying tools and heavy packs. And by diving into them, they were able to not only arrive a lot

quicker, but they also didn't arrive exhausted. You know, you're not carrying these huge packs on your back, you're not hiking for nine, 10 miles, you're just showing up and you are refreshed, you're ready to work. Of course, because it was a relatively new agency, a lot of policies and protocols were being formed as they learned better practices. So it was kind of just like, we'll see what happens as you go and we'll figure out rules and lessons and whatever, like, when they come about. It also wasn't a widely loved idea when they first started. Because it meant flying and parachuting into remote areas with fires, it presented an increased risk for firefighter safety. The most glaringly obvious problem with this was that they had to get to the fires by jumping

out of an airplane, which could be a significant risk to their lives. So like, I don't know about this. You know, before they were just walking out, now you want them to skydive out of low flying planes into areas filled with heavily forest areas that has a fire, that there's, no landing area. It's just people were not super fond of the idea. But of course, there's the high adrenaline adventure type people who are like, hell yeah, throw me in and jump in, which they were seeing were the type of people who were interested, but a lot of people had concerns. Many believed as well that the good old fashion way of hiking out to the fires was the proper way to do it. You know, whenever something new comes about, people are like, no, just do it the

old-fashioned way. Like, that's how we were rated. You know, there's just so many things that are like that. Yeah. I think of the phrase, oh, God, what is it? I always do this. I'm like, oh, yeah, that really famous thing and totally forget. But the most, the most dangerous phrase in history is we've always done it this way. I like that. Have you ever heard that? No. Because obviously it's, if you're repeating history and repeating, just you're not moving forward. You're not changing. Yeah, you're not changing and evolving. And I think that is true in a lot of, a lot of circumstances and fields. And of course, in firefighting, I'm sure. Like, obviously Al was a wildland firefighter that I'm sure would fall right into this category of people. For sure. Back in the day of wanting to be on the front lines

of trying it out. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So there were a lot of people that were into this new way of smoke jumping and then there were some that were pretty skeptical about it. However, smoke jumping for years has proved to be an effective way to fight fire and today there are nine smoke jumping bases around the country with about 450 smoke jumpers. So it's still something that's going on today and it's proved to be a really successful industry. When Ranger Jansen returned from his flight, he met with the forest supervisor to discuss the situation that was unfolding. Based on what he had witnessed, they agreed that they needed immediate assistance on the fire to get it under control and that a smoke jumping crew would be required. They knew that it would be several hours before any ground crews could get to the fire and its potential to spread fast was too high.

He called in the nearby smoke jumper base in Missoula, Montana and ordered a crew of about 25 smoke jumpers to come on scene. However, because of logistical reasons, and remember this is still kind of a new operation, and they had aircraft shortages at the base. They were only able to provide 16 smoke jumpers, which he accepted and said, well, that's fine, if that's all you can provide. Along with the smoke jumper team, he also gathered 19 additional wildland fires

and sent them out as backup to help the smoke jumpers from the ground. So they were expected to get there later than the smoke jumpers, but they would kind of serve as their backup. And you're like, hey, okay, now we're here and can help you control this fire. Mm-hmm. Within the smoke jumper crew was Wagner Dodge, one of the most experienced of any smoke jumpers at the time. He was part of the initial establishment of the crew and was one of the first people to ever jump with the Forest Service.

He was also known to be different than others. While many were adventurous and daredevals, most of them had at least this small fear of jumping from planes, you know, like a healthy fear, I would say. Yeah. But Wagner never felt this. he never was afraid to jump out of planes. He was never worried about it, never had like that. I don't know.

I want to say like survival fear, you know, just make sense to have a little butterfly when you jump or whatever. I feel like he had an Alex Honnold brain. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Just didn't have that fear factor going on up there. So he never felt that fear and people knew that. And he was also the leader of the crew that day. So he was the one who was in charge of these 15 other smoke jumpers, including himself, 16,

and this was the very first time that they were going to work under his command. The Forest Service recognized that it was dangerous for crews to work in such a dangerous and high-stress environment without knowing each other first. So they implemented a three-week training course for crews before each season began. That way they could get to know each other. However, Wagner had been put in charge of maintenance at the base because of his skills as a handyman, and his extra work made him unavailable for almost the entire training course. The man, Gulchfire, was the first time they would all truly be working

together, and Wagner had spent such little time with them that he didn't even know them all by name yet. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. When they spotted the fire, they circled it from above to scope it out. By the time they had arrived around 3.10 p.m., it covered between 50 and 60 acres of land and was burning on the ridge between Man Gulch and the neighboring Meriwether Canyon.

Where the fire was most active, it was burning downhill, which generally means for slower burn. They saw evidence of the tree canopy fires that I mentioned before, but it had since burned out. From their perspective, this fire looked pretty manageable. With the downhill, it was going towards, so there's a river at the bottom of the canyon to kind of set an image of it. There's the river at the bottom. It's coming from the ridge, but it's burning down. towards the river. It's burning slower at a slower rate. These tree canopies are not happening anymore. They're like, okay, this is manageable. Doesn't seem like anything out of the ordinary from

something that we've done before. However, to add to the fire danger, it was one of the hottest days on record at 97 degrees, and the fire danger was labeled as high. The national fire danger reading system has a scale for fire ignition components. Ignition component is referring to the probability wildfire if a fire brand is introduced into dry dead fuel. This value ranges from zero, which means conditions are cool and damp, to 100, which means conditions are dry and windy. On this day, the rating was at 74, which is equivalent to a very high risk rating. It is also important to note that crews are able to make the final call and whether or not they want to jump into an area based on the dangers that they witnessed from the air. Still, both Wagner and

And their lookout, Earl Cooley, spoke and agreed that this was a routine fire and expected that they could have it under control by morning. They circled the area to get a better view of the landscape to evaluate the fire and wind conditions, but also because they were unfamiliar with the area and had been sent out without any maps of the region. So they're circling it because they don't know where they are. They're like, okay, where can we get in? We have no means to navigate this. This flight also was particularly rough with a ton of turbulence. The wind speeds were high and jostled their plane around so much that many of the guys got sick.

One felt so sick that he vomited and took his gear off and decided that he wasn't going to jump altogether, leaving the crew down to 15 men instead of 16. The spoter, Earl, found a landing spot that was agreed on. It was a small rocky opening that all men had to aim for when they jumped out of the plane. So it's just like this small spot. It's not, have you ever, have you been skydiving before? No. It's, I went once, uh, years ago.

But when we jumped, there was this massive fields where there's nothing around you. There's no trees. There's nothing you're going to hit. There's a building, but it's pretty small and relative to the rest of the space. And so you're not that worried about landing, but then I think of this. Like, okay, this small rocky area, jump out of the plane and you have to hit this. It just seems like very stressful and also like it requires a lot of skill. And also everything is on fire.

Yeah, there's that too. That small detail. There's that. Yeah. Do I look like a skydiver to you? I'll just ask you that. No. Thank you.

I just, I don't have. I didn't want to assume. I think. Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you. You've assumed work. things about me.

It's true. I have. It's true. But I don't know. I just don't. I wouldn't say I would never do it. Maybe I would. But I just like don't have the bug.

You know, like I feel like a lot of people, as soon as they do it once, I feel like a lot of people are like, I can't wait to go again. And I don't know. It just seems not into it. Too risky. I would do indoor skydiving when you're in the tunnel. Yeah, I've done that before. Yeah, it's fun. It's not like skydiving at all, but you're in the big air tunnel and it's fun and it like blows your cheeks around.

Yeah, I'll do that. Like, you know, like dogs stick their head out the window and their cheeks like go everywhere. Yeah. That's kind of how it was when I did the indoor skydiving. Well, sign me up, I guess. There's one in, um, isn't there like a sky zone or something it's called? In Ashwa, right. Yeah, that's where I went in Nashua. Okay, team outing. We're the team. work trip work team bonding trip right anyway so that was just my thought

when they like they're like okay like jump into this tiny spot and they agreed on it but it was pretty rough for people one it's a rocky area it's not like if you've seen the skydivers I just picture like you kind of run out on like this long strip of grass until you can stop

but they just have these rocks that they're landing on and one man hit a tree pole just above the ground, but he was okay. And the other crew members barreled into rocks, but pretty much remained uninjured, just like a couple scrapes, a little bruises, but totally fine. There was one person that was injured on landing, and that was Wagner. He hit a rock that cut him right to the bone of his elbow, but somehow it wasn't bleeding. It was just like straight through, clean cut, not bleeding. So the guys bandaged him up, and they just started to get to work. It's like, ah, whatever happens. You're fine. Yeah. Throw some dirt on it.

Yeah. Literally. So they land and they crawl out of their jumpsuits, put them in a pile to grab for later. And at this point, it's important to note there's no real uniform that they have. Most of them were just in regular attire. They had Levi's and blue shirts with hard hats on. So the plane dropped them down and then they dropped cargo down to the crew. And that was all the gear that they needed. However, because the rocky ridge lines of the gulch were pretty rough and terrain, they had to drop it from higher than usual, and they dropped it from 2,000 feet. When the gear landed, they had to find it over a 300 square yard area. And the cargo dropped the parachute carrying their radio and to note their only form of communication to the outside world, the parachute didn't open. And the team watched it crash into rocks and heard the radio shatter.

Oof. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so now they're completely cut off. They're just out there, have to get work done, can't talk to anyone in the outside world. It was 5 p.m. by the time they collected all of their gear. With them, they had handsaw, shovels, and several Pulaski's. And a Pulaski is a tool that is a combination of a fire axe and a hoe that has been named after Ed Pulaski, who is the ranger that was credited for saving lives in an episode that I covered of the Great Fire of 1910 in Idaho. If you guys remember that. episode. It's probably from a while, it's probably from maybe even two years, a year ago. It was over two years ago because I remember you did it when I lived in Washington with Ian. Oh, okay. Yeah, so it was a while ago that I did that episode and it was a really tragic story, but he

was credited for saving his crew's life because they went into a cave and he kind of managed the fire from the outside from getting to them and he saved most of his crew. And the reason for the Pulaski's is there for firefighters to dig and chop up vegetation to create this gap known as a fire break. And that's to try to slow down and stop fires from catching onto more vegetation. So the crew that day was tasked with creating a fire line where they would remove all combustible materials like vegetation and scrape the service to the mineral soil up to three feet wide in attempts to control the fire. Basically to create this soil line where the fire can't catch on. to anything. Wagner instructed the crew to head downhill to fight the fire from below.

It was burning closer to the tops of the ridges, but fighting it from below would allow them to retreat to the river canyon if necessary. So his whole thought process was to have some type of escape route. After he instructed his crew, he headed across the canyon to scout out the fire from a closer spot. And when he was doing that, he ran into Jim Harrison, who was the recreation and fire prevention guard that was stationed at the campground at the mouth of Meriwether Canyon. He had spotted the fire from earlier in that day and when his radio transmissions failed to reach anyone, he headed out to try to prevent the fire from reaching the Meriwether Canyon himself, just alone. And this canyon is a chimney of 1,500 foot precipices and pinnacles and was considered

one of America's tourist treasures. He knew that if the fire reached that area, it would heat it would heat and crack the rocks that were there and it would change the landscape forever and potentially ruin this tourist attraction that was there. So he headed right out there to try and be on site. Jim had previously been a smoke jumper, but he had actually switched to patrol duty and cleaning up after his mother voice concerns for his safety as a smoke jumper. But today, he had already been out there for over four hours hiking through tough terrain and building fire lines along this area. area long before the smoke jumpers had even arrived. Almost immediately when Jim and Wagner met, it was decided that the fire was becoming too

dangerous and they needed to run back to the crew to redirect them. The winds had changed and the fire had become much larger and was spreading fast in their direction. It remained across the gulch, but its potential to spread to them was a large concern. What made that particularly dangerous was that the area wasn't just covered with these ponderosa pines and all these plant and vegetation life, but it also had large areas of dry grassy plains that would easily ignite and spread quickly. And they're observing this area like, oh, this is about to get bad. We need to get out of here. All in all, Wagner was only apart from his crew for a period of 20 minutes and reached them again at 5.40 p.m. with Jim. This time he told the crew that they needed to retreat towards the river,

but still at this time, the urgency and dangers of their situation hadn't quite hit the crew. Because this was not uncommon practice while fighting fire. Fires changed, wind patterns changed. It wasn't uncommon to be like, hey, actually, let's go here instead. Let's fight it from here. So they're just kind of doing what they're told moving at a fast pace. They rerouted and angled down the slope towards the river below. But after five minutes of moving pretty quickly, Wagner saw what he had feared the most.

and that was that the fire had crossed man gulch and was now heading directly upwards towards the crew, cutting off their escape to the river. They didn't know it at the time, but the fire had crossed 3,000 acres in just 10 minutes. Now they only had about 200 yards, which was equivalent to less than two football fields away from them and the fire. Wow. I can't imagine that. I have anxiety. I have anxiety. I can't breathe. Imagine them.

all the smoke. I think it's because I kind of know what's about to happen. Yeah. Wait, did you say 200 yards less than, what did you just say, the equivalent of a football field? It is less than two football fields away. Oh, I think. I googled it. I feel like we know football. Um, no, I think each football stadium or field is 100 yards. No, it's 120 yards. I Googled it. Now I'm re-googling it. Okay. I don't know.

I don't either. Actually. I'm like the 20-yard line. When I go to football games, they just yell and pretend I know what's going on. It's not really a secret. It's not like a secret talent. It's more of like a weird ability or not even. I don't even know what it is.

But when I was a kid, when I was a kid, my dad was a huge football fan, huge. and I always watched football with him, but obviously as a child, I didn't really know what's going on. I didn't really care super much. But he would, we'd be driving or walking or doing something and he'd yell out a city and I had to name their football team. Like mid-conversation, we would just be talking about something else and then you'd be like, Detroit. I'd be like, lions. You know, like I had to, that was, it was like a pop quiz for football teams. So for a really long time, even though I know. know pretty much nothing about football, I knew every city's team, like in the NFL. Do you still know it?

I mean, my dad's been gone over, you know, almost 14 years now. So it's been, I'm rusty, but maybe. Maybe. I don't know. San Francisco. 49ers. See? Oh.

Is that right? Yeah. Okay. See? I think. It's like, do we have to Google it? I'm sure people will tell us. listening and is like, no.

It's like that guy, we talked about him recently, the yes guy. Yes. Right. Yes, correct. Correct. Amazing. Two plus two is seven. Yes.

Yes. Okay. So funny. So yeah, so now this fire is 200 yards away, which is equivalent to less than two football field delay. And they had to reverse direction and head up the canyon, but the terrain was difficult. to navigate. So just a refresher. They were heading down the canyon. Now they're going back, now they're backtracking going back up. Because it was steep and rocky, it made for slower progress on the uphill,

especially with the weight that they were carrying in their packs. But now the crew really had an idea of the sense of the seriousness of this situation. When Wagner ordered them to turn around, they knew that they were being ordered to run from the fire. This was not a normal command. Now it was like, okay, turn around. And now the fire is really bad. They began moving at top speed and instead of switchbacking their way up, which makes for an easier climb and is usually how they would walk up this type of terrain, they just booked it straight up. They weren't making progress fast enough though, and after a couple of yards, Wagner ordered everyone to drop their packs and tools. The fire had gained on them and was now just one football field away. The hope was that if they could make it to the top of the ridge, they would reach safety, because often fires will wear out,

when they reach a ridge line, and that's what they were hoping for. But the problem that they were facing now was that they couldn't even see the ridge line yet. Oh, they weren't close enough. No. The climb up the slope was a brutal one. It was one of the hottest days on record at over 100 degrees, and smoke and debris had filled the area making it hard to breathe. With no ridgeline in sight, Jim Harrison, who had been working on the fire for the past several hours,

fell to the ground in exhaustion. He still had his heavy pack on and was too tired to go any further. The rest of the crew, who were now in a fight for their lives and they knew it, didn't stop to help him when he sat on the ground. Two crew members, Walter Rumsey and Robert Sally, noted that they were confused

as why he still had his pack on when they passed him. I mean, that was my first thought. Yeah. Why are you still carrying this? Yeah. But, you know, I think about it, And other people, when I was reading it, people were hesitant to take their gear off because that was the only means that they had to fight the fire. So if you take it off, people, I mean, they have their first aid kits on them. They have their water on them. They have everything. You know, it's just dropping your pack is losing any means that you have to fight this fire. And now you're just running. Right. So that's the first thing that comes to mind is maybe why he didn't drop it. The other would just be out of exhaustion and not thinking, correct?

Yeah. But who knows? You know, he had already been out there for hours and now he's high tailing it up this ridge line and really, and it's smoke-filled, it's hard to breathe. During this time, Wagner was ahead of the group and when he reached an area away from the timber that they had been to this grassy patch, he took out a match and began lighting a fire himself. At this point, he thought if he could burn an area first, the fire would hop over that and they could seek refuge and the already burned up and burning grass because fire doesn't catch on stuff that's already been burnt, you know? Right.

He didn't think that they had time to make it to the ridgeline, which was now actually in sight, but he saw how far away it was and how close the fire was and thought that this was a last resort to try to save everyone. Walter and Robert were the first to see what he was doing, and they couldn't comprehend why. From their perspectives, they were running for their lives from a fire while Wagner was creating one in front of them that they now had to maneuver around. In their minds, all they thought was if they made it to the ridge, they could make it out. And instead of stopping to ask for further instructions or asked what he was doing, because to them it was so outlandish to be doing that,

they had a fleeting thought that he had gone mad under the stress and the smoke, and they continued to move as quickly as they could towards the ridge. They moved up the right side of Wagner's fire with the thought that his small fire would give them a little bit more time to reach the ridge line because the larger fire was coming up from the left-hand side of it and the smaller fire would kind of like help slow it down a little bit. They had been moving faster than the rest of the crew, but the rest of the crew wasn't that far behind them. Following very close behind them was Eldon Detert. Wagner was hollering out to the crew with an order that they needed to hop into his brush fire to survive at that time. And in some witness statements later, it is believed that William Hellman,

one of the other crew members, yelled back something along the lines of, to hell with that, I'm getting out of here, before making his way up the left side of his fire. With that statement, some crew members followed and others scattered. Whether or not the entire crew could hear Wagner's orders is unknown, but the thundering sounds of the fire approaching made it really difficult to hear anything other than that. But all in all, none of his crew followed his directions to jump into his fire. When Walter, Robert, and Eldon made it to what they thought was the ridgeline, they discovered it was actually a false top. But with the heavy smoke, it was hard to see exactly how much further it was. A small break in the smoke revealed a crevice in the rocky surface

and they ran to it. They didn't have enough time to make it to the top at this point. Walter made it in first, then Robert. But Eldon, for whatever reason, decided that this was not a good plan, and he continued for the ridgeline with the fire not far behind him. At this point, Walter and Robert were able to look down and back at where Wagner had been starting the fire. They watched as a wall of fire approach with massive plumes of smoke filling all the air around them. Then they saw Wagner jump into where he had made his fire, and he put his face into the ground. Following that, everything went black with smoke and the two went down into the crevice as far as they could. Wagner, in the very last seconds before the fire hit, dived into the ash from his fire.

He covered his mouth with a rag and covered the rag with water and pushed his face and body as far into the ashes as he could manage. Wagner could feel the fire on his back and the strength of the wind around the fire lifted him off of the ground more than once, but with all his strength he pulled himself back down. It seemed to have lasted about five minutes before the fire finally passed over them. When the air had cooled enough to stand, Wagner, Walter, and Robert stood up from their spots to see the world charred around them. They had survived. Their lungs were burnt, and it was difficult to breathe, but they were alive. But now the question was, where was the rest of their crew? Wagner moved

quickly up the slope in search for the rest of them. He heard someone hollering, faintly. He heard someone hollering, faintly in the distance and quickly he came across a crew member. Wagner at the time had not spent enough time with his crew members to know them all by name, and he later found out that he had found Joe Sylvia. He was badly burnt, lying on the ground in a euphoric state of happiness. Wagner lifted him up and moved him into the shade of a large boulder. His feet were so swollen that he had to cut his boots off of him and his hands were burnt beyond recognition. Wagner left him there temporarily in search of the others. Up on the fall summit, Robert and Walter heard someone calling out as well. Not far away, they saw Bill Hellman walking towards them. The same guy who had

yelled the hell with this and took off up the left side of Wagner's fire on the ridge line. He was not able to escape the fire. His shoes and pants were completely burned off and his skin hung in patches along his body. They moved him to a large rock and laid him down to try to keep his burns out of the hot ashes on the ground. He was in really bad shape, and they couldn't do any more for him as they dropped their first aid kits off when they had left their gear behind. I was going to say, of course, having a first aid kit is helpful beyond measure in a lot of circumstances, but I feel like those injuries are a little bit beyond what they maybe had.

Yeah, the only thing I can think of is like some type of pain relief that they might have had on them. Yeah. Or also electrolytes and things like that because when you're that burnt, your body like loses all of its hydration. Well, and you're going into shock and a bunch of other stuff. And you're going into shock. Like there's like they couldn't have addressed the burns, but they could have maybe

addressed some other things. But, but they had dropped all their year and it was because they had to move fast enough to get out of there. Right. Next, Wagner reached them. Shocked that there were people alive. His eyes were bloodshot from the smoke, and he was entirely covered with soot from the ashes. They scoured the ridge for other survivors, but quickly they learned that there weren't any.

Of the 16 people on the ridge that day, including Jim, the guard, who used to be a smoke jumper, 11 of them had perished. That number would soon become higher. The problem now was that they had no means of communication to the outside world, and no one knew what had happened to them. The only way to get help would be to hike out, but they were all injured in some capacity and they were exhausted and dehydrated. But still, both Wagner and Robert hiked out for help. Walter stayed behind to care for the two that were injured. Ranger Jansen, who had originally ordered the jumpers to come into the fire, was not concerned at all for their safety at the time. He was focusing on ground crews and the 19 guys

he had sent out before. As smokejumpers were considered the most elite in the fire world, it didn't occur to him that they could have gotten stuck in the fire. He assumed, that they found their way out and were handling everything just fine. It wasn't until several hours later that night that he first realized that something might be wrong. Jansen was out to the camp that they had set up for his other men as well, and they had supplies there, including a water bucket that was for the smoke jumpers. And they were supposed to eventually come into camp to gather supplies for themselves. And at this point, they would have picked it up by now, but it was still there and it was completely full.

This meant that they had never met up with the ground crew that he had sent out to help them. He was also in one of the very few areas that had remained unscathed in the fire. When he tried to get radio communication to the jumpers and discovered no one had been able to make contact with them, he ordered that he needed to know their exact coordinates from when they jumped. Just as he was inquiring about this information, both Wagner and Robert walked into the guard cabin. It was 8.50 p.m. They relayed to him what had happened, and the ranger immediately ordered for a rescue crew to come with supplies in first aid, including doctors, plasma, and litters to carry the injured out. It wasn't until 10.30 p.m. when the rescue crew was formed, and it was even later when they got to them.

On the ridge line, Bill Hellman was extremely thirsty. He would drink water, but he couldn't keep any of it down. The doctors were able to give him a cord of plasma, apply salve to his burnt skin, and transfer him into a litter. He was in horrific condition and had burns covering most of his body. But under the circumstances, he was handling everything very well and was alert. The men later said that his bravery in those moments made them cry while they were on scene. It wasn't until 2 a.m. that they reached Joe Sylvia. He was standing, hunched over, and still in a euphoric state. He had burned so badly that he wasn't in pain because his nerve endings had been destroyed.

He was conscious and talking to them as well. Both men were carried out and brought to a hospital in Helena at about 10 a.m. the following day. Because of the severity of their burns, the doctor was worried that their kidneys would fail. He ordered tests and his concerns were verified when neither of them had any urine output. Dialysis, a temporary treatment for failed kidneys, was in the early stages of being used at the time and would not become a standard treatment until 11 years after this incident occurred. By noon that day, they both succumbed to their injuries and kidney failure. Oh, my God. Wagner stayed on site and in camp for the next several days until all the remains of his crew members were found.

The morning of the 17th, 11 days after the fire, the last person was found. Also just a testament to, he barely knew these guys and this horrific thing happens. And then he stays out there after he's gone through this trauma. I mean, he was out there too in this fire. He stays there for 11 days to help find them because he was part of the crew that helped find them as well. After he had gone home, he went back to Missoula where he lived. And after he got home, there was a review that was conducted within the Forest Service of what happened that day. It included scientists who studied what went wrong with the fire, along with testimony from the survivors of the incident and a review of the decisions that Wagner made that day as the foreman and leader of the crew.

Some scrutinized his decisions to make a fire and attempt to have his crew lay down in it for safety, saying they believed if he had instructed them to get to the ridge, they could have all needed out. So they were basically like, your fire, it might have worked for you under this weird circumstance, but if you had just focused on getting to the ridge with the other people who did survive, then your whole crew might be here. The problem with that argument was that Bill had made it to the ridge as well and was caught in the fire. died. Yeah, I was going to say, I don't think I agree with that per se. Yeah. And it was an argument. It was something that they were investigating if that was it. And the other guys said that they thought that they

made it to their spot because of his fire, that it was slowed down a little bit because of it. The review forced the Forest Service to relook at protocols and trainings. And it was discovered that while what Wagner did did save his life and was a useful decision, it was not a maneuver that was used in training for firefighters. Even if that was the correct call and was something that he should be doing and clearly it did save his life and it has been said that if the whole crew had followed him, then all of their lives might have been spared that day. The problem with that was that it was not in any of the trainings.

So none of the firemen knew what he was doing. Right. Well, you said that. They were like, has he lost his mind? And if so, we're not staying to figure that out. Yeah. Yeah, he's building a fire in front of the fire. were running from. They're like, what is what is going on here? And they didn't know the tactic that he

was using to try and help them. And along with that, they discovered that reform needed to be done in the trainings and making sure that they actually spent time together. I mean, for him, they decided that he was needed elsewhere and didn't make him participate in the trainings, which made him not know his crew, which also made his crew not trust in his ability because they didn't know him. Right. All in all, the manculture fire led to a lot of reform within the wildland services. It played a crucial role in advancing understanding fire behavior, safety protocols, and decision making during wildfire emergencies. It also led to increase fire behavior research, improved trainings, and development of more effective strategies of fighting fire. So this loss of life

that happened made them really look into, and especially the fact that what Wagner did worked for him, and he reported he had to answer a lot of questions from everyone basically in this book. It goes to a lot of detail about that, but he basically had to tell them what he saw, and he thought he saw the crew running past him and running in other directions and scattering instead of listening to him. And again, he wasn't sure if people could hear him, but he did think that he heard someone say, the hell with that, I'm getting out of here instead of listening to him. So there was a lot of things that were done that day that made them relook at how they train their firefighters.

To remember the victims of this day and the service of the wildland members who ranged in as young of 17 years old that day, the Man Gulch Memorial site was erected near the Missouri River and Helena National Forest. Today there are memorial markers and a plaque honoring the 13 smokejumpers who died that day. The memorial contains a bronze statue of an empty smokejumper's uniform, along with a plaque that reads, In memory of the 13 heroic young men who lost their lives in service of their country fighting the Mangulch Forest Fire, one mile down the river on August 5, 1949, following with their names, Robert Bennett, Eldon Deterre, James Harrison, William Hellman, Philip McVeigh, David Navon, Leonard Piper, Stanley Reba Marvin Sherman Joseph Sylvia

Henry Thall Newton Thompson and Silas Thompson and that is still a memorial that exists today Wow Were those last two related?

Do you know? I don't believe so They were from different areas On the plaque it also says where they're both from and they're both from different sides of the country so I don't believe so Okay

Wow God that was a tough one Anything with, I mean, fires is really scary. It doesn't seem like a good, like, I thought this was nice ambiance, my little fireplace, but maybe I, you're like, I'm going to turn this off. Yeah, it's like, can I actually turn this off? Anything with burns, just because, I mean, burns are so difficult to heal and obviously experience. I just, I don't know.

I there's something about that particular type of injury that is really difficult to imagine and hear about just because of the sheer amount of horrific pain a lot of people experienced with that. I mean, obviously, I keep saying obviously. And somebody yelled at me for that. And I'm so sorry to that one person. Now you're more conscious of it. You're like, oh, wait, I am sick. Well, here's the thing.

Can I just say something really quickly? to clear that up. So I never had to feel like I had to justify what I was saying to literally anyone until we started a podcast. And if you don't state your position as if it is obvious, there are people that come and attack you. So I think it's just been kind of ingrained. Yeah. Into my mind to make sure I make it apparent that like I understand. something may be clear and obvious to others. But if I don't do that, then people are, people come at me. So people yell at it as that no matter what.

But so anyways, I'm just a little hyper fixated on that at the moment. But it'll pass. This two shall pass. Anyways, I forgot what I was saying. Something about Burns, they skeeep me out. And it's, they're scary. It's tough to hear about. This is not anything, like anything that people went through.

today, but we're in this story. But I have a pretty significant burn scar on my leg. And it's from years ago, I think I was like 19 years old. And I was riding on the back of a motorcycle. And we were going to the beach, so I was wearing a dress, which is a dumb idea. And I got off the wrong side and I have an exhaust burn on my leg. And for whatever reason, I don't know why. I did this at the time. I think because it was inconvenient. All we, I just went, we were at a Walmart. when it happened. So I just went into the Walmart, got a bandage. I went up to the pharmacists that was there. You know how Walmarts have their little pharmacy areas. I was like, hey, do you have anything for a burn? And they were like, yeah, there's aloe cream over there.

And I was like, no, I mean like this. And I pointed down at my leg. And they were like, oh my God, because it was really bad. And they like put me on a bench. They start grabbing stuff off the shelf and they start like bandaging my leg and putting all this stuff like right there in the pharmacy in the middle of walmart in the pharmacy and after they did that i was like i'm good i don't have to go to the um the er or anything so then we went to the beach with this massive burn on my leg and it hurt the whole time because you're like in the hot sun and i was like ow like this actually is really painful and then the next couple of weeks went by and it wasn't healing it was it was really bad it was really gross and it was really not doing well and I had an appointment

with my kidney doctors in Boston and I was like well I'll just bring it up then like I'll just let them know it's not healing and so I get there and I was like hey I have this burn on my leg and it's just not healing I'd like you to look at it and she was like oh yeah sure I'll look at it I actually used to work in a burn unit. I can, that's what I did before this. I'll totally look at it. So she takes a bandage off and she's like, oh my God. She was like, this is so bad.

She was like, she's telling me all this stuff. She's like, did you go to the doctor? She's like, you should have gone immediately. And then she's like, we'll give it a little bit more time, but I think you're going to need a skin graph, which is when they take skin from another part of your body and put it there because it was so bad. But she was like, you've already waited for so long. and it's starting to try to heal.

But so let's see. Anyway, I didn't need a skin graft, but it took like seven months for it to heal. And so burns are hard. And I still have a big scar on my leg from it. I can imagine, is the morrow of my story. I can imagine her face when you're like, no, I didn't go to the hospital.

I was treated in Walmart. Yeah, I'm like the pharmacy. They gave me some like cream and a bandage and it was fine. And she was just like, you should have had this treated immediately. And she was just, she was horrified. And not like horrified. She seemed way worse.

But she was just like, this is really bad. This is a significant burn. And yeah. And I had like it was painful in some areas. She said, I forget it was so long ago, but I had third degree burns and second degree burns. And where the third degree burns were, it was so deep that I didn't, it didn't hurt. And I didn't have feeling. But where the second degree burns were, it was really painful.

So it was just like this ongoing thing that. And then I ended up going to my primary care doctor and having them look at it. And it was like this thing where I was going back and forth to the doctor for months while they waited to see if they thought I needed a skin graph or not. Yeah, well, you just really needed to go to Hampton Beach. And I understand, I know you were going to Hampton Beach. I was going to Hampton Beach. Yeah.

And I know the Walmart you probably went to was off of the Exeter exit. No, it wasn't because I was coming up from Massachusetts. Oh, okay. Different route, different route. Different route. But the desire was strong in our teenage years to make sure we got our Hampton Beach time and it was a place to be. So I'm sure you got a belly button ring there. I will say we ended up going to, we were planning to go to Hampton Beach, but we did go to

a closer lake beach instead because of the incident. We're like, maybe we shouldn't go that far since you're still in a dress. Okay, that doesn't make any sense. I don't know. We were young. Right, right. Yeah. And stupid and now I have a scar my leg for the rest of my life.

Well, I know exactly where you're talking. It's by your tattoo, right? No. It's on my calf. Oh. Is that on your tattoo leg, though? No. It's the opposite one.

Okay, maybe I don't know anything. My friendship's over. How do you not know? Honestly, it doesn't look as bad as it used to. Oh, okay. It used to be like really, really noticeable. And now it's, like, it's healed really well. It's just a scar now.

Yeah. Just took some time. Yeah. Just took seven months. It just took 10 years. Right. More than that. Okay. Well, thanks for sharing. That was an awful story. But yeah. There's really no other way to put it. Yeah, it's an awful story. But I also think that it is an important reminder of what firefighters are doing in the wildland people out there, how they are risking their lives and how it's so dangerous and just recognizing that, especially when it's fire season. And I think that can kind of be a segue into fire safety and really following that when you're in these places that have fire restrictions or fire bans to really follow that.

They say a lot of fires are started from people. That's the most common reason. And it's from people recreating in the outdoors. So just keep in mind when you're not listening to that. If anything happens, there are people's lives who are on the line potentially because it can become a dangerous situation and people lose their homes and it's that fire season's really scary and there are people in the front lines that are fighting it and risking their lives and losing their lives there's been a lot of people who have lost their lives fighting fire and

just to keep stories like this in mind when you're out recreating just to be careful and to listen to those guidelines and this one wasn't started by a person it was started by lightning and and was I don't want to say a freak accident because things could have been done different but they were still learning and it was new. It was a new establishment. So now we know better today, hopefully. But accidents still happen. That's right.

All right. Well, for everyone who came over to YouTube to watch us, I guess, I mean, we didn't do much. We just sat here. Sat here. I don't know what you want from us. I don't know. I do think it's nice seeing people's faces when they talk and just seeing like it feels more like a conversation.

I think when you are looking at the people talking. And I know that we have gotten away for almost four years of people not knowing what we look like, which I've enjoyed. But now you can... Times have changed. Times have changed. And now you know what voice is coming out of what body, which is helpful as well when you're listening. So I get it. I get it.

It's fine. For sure. All right. Well, we will see you next week or Thursday or I don't know. If you want to go back and listen to the Pulaski episode that Cassie did now, we interviewed, was that the episode we interviewed Al? Yeah, yeah, he's at the end of it. Yeah, yeah. So we have an interview with a wildland firefighter, former wildland firefighter, Cassie's fiancé Al.

So if you want more fire content, then I literally have no idea what episode that was, but it was a while ago. It was a while ago. If you go into like the search box and type in, uh, it's on fire. Probably. Maybe it'll pop up. Yeah. It was in Lolo National Forest. I thought it was the Idaho Panhandle. Oh, maybe.

I guess good luck. Good luck. Let us know which one it is. And enjoy the view. But watch your back. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for joining us again this week.

If you have a trail tale or story suggestion, send us an email at Stories at N-PAD podcast. com. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at National Park After Dark and on Twitter at NPAD podcast. Join our Outsiders only community on Patreon or Apple subscriptions to listen ad-free, unlock monthly bonus episodes, and exclusive content. And remember, when you support our sponsors, you are supporting our show. For our exclusive discount codes and source information from today's episode, check out the show notes. For more information on our show, our book recommendations, merch updates, and more. visit our website at npaddpodcast.com.

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