National Park After Dark - The Slenderman Stabbing: Chequamegon-Nicolet National Forest

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

In May of 2014 two 12-year-old girls, Anissa Weier and Morgan Geyser, lured their friend Payton Leutner into the woods and stabbed her 19 times - all in an attempt to appease a fictional horror character. Follow along as we discuss what the media dubbed “The Slenderman Stabbing”.For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Microdose Gummies: Use code NPAD to get free shipping and 30% off your first order.Lume Deodorant: Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @lumedeodorant and get $5 off off your Starter Pack (that’s over 40% off) with promo code [NPAD] at LumeDeodorant.com! #lumepodZocdoc: Use our link to download the Zocdoc app for free.BetterHelp: National Park After Dark is sponsored by BetterHelp. Get 10% off.For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Monday AI agents took over my work. And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Monday.com. So they see the full picture, my work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff,

knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress.

Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Have you ever heard the phrase, two things can be true at once? It's a difficult concept to grasp as humans strive to categorize people, places, and things in two boxes.

But not everything is that way. Take the forest, for example. The woods can be a magical, enchanting place. Strolling through the forest, especially as the sun is streaming through the tree boughs and the birds are singing, gives a sense of peace and tranquility that is difficult to match. However, that same forest can take a turn quickly. The same paths you sauntered on can easily twist in your mind, and as the sun sets and bird song is replaced with twig snaps and distorted animal calls,

you may start to panic. There is a reason so many campfire horror stories take place in a dark wood, because people instinctively are wary and frightened of it, and who or what may be lurking there. The majority of the time the forest simply comes alive at night with a set of nocturnal creatures, all going about their lives in the same way their diurnal counterparts do, and there is nothing to be feared at all. It is our minds that fill in the blanks, that conjure the creatures that should truly be feared,

and create danger right out of thin air. Welcome to National Park After Dark. I feel like we have a scary episode today. It's scary, but in a way that I don't think it's going to be, it's true crime. I'm just going to come out and say it. True crime is scary. That's true. It's the most truest form of crime, you could say.

Yeah, truly. Truly. Happy New Year. Happy New Year, everyone. We're back. We never went anywhere. We didn't take last week off. No.

No. We haven't taken weeks. We took one week off in October, November, first week in November. and we're back. We haven't seen you since last year. She made that joke on the December Outsiders only. Like the last thing she said, like we were about to just sign off and she had to throw it in there. She's like, see you next year. So awful. I hate when people say that. But we all, someone told all of us this year, or last year, see you next year and then saw them 24 hours later. Yeah, well, I mean, I guess it's not untrue. It's just annoying.

But welcome to 2024, and I decided because it was my turn to do an episode that kicks off the new year, I decided to kind of go back to our true roots of the show for the first two episodes when we were gung-ho on doing a true crime podcast. It's been a little while since we did a true true crime story. So this one is kind of a stretch when it comes to relating it to a national park or a national forest. and you'll see why pretty early on. But it was- This has nothing to do with national parks.

Truly. It does not. And I need to stop saying truly because now I can't stop. But yeah, it has nothing to do with the national park. National Forest comes up briefly and you'll see why. But otherwise... Is it outside? The crime occurs outside.

Okay. There we go. Yeah. We got something. But it was recommended to us several times just as I was going through the backlogs of story recommendation. So I decided to jump into that for the first episode of January. So today we are going to be talking about what the media dubbed The Slender Man Stabbings.

This has been a highly requested episode, I feel like, over the past two years. Yeah. So here it is. I'm delivering. Well, I'm excited to hear it because I know the general idea of it, but I don't know any details of it, basically. Yeah, it's really, really creepy. but yeah, I'll just tell you all about it. Oh, I was just thinking before you get into it, I was thinking there has to be,

SVU always does imitation episodes of crimes that happened and they just change a couple things of it, but there are real things that happen. Not all the time, but you can recognize it. Like I specifically remember that they did a Rihanna and Chris Brown one. And I'm like, I know they did The Slender Man. And it's called Glasgow Man's Rath is the episode that they did. And it's based on this one. but instead of Slender Man, it's called Glasgow Man.

And I know it has a similar premise to the story, but I'm sure it's like not on base. I'll see like as you're telling it if it's the same idea or if they really change it. But I remember that from it. I would be interested because I have not seen that. And I didn't know anything about this case until I started researching it for this episode. So I would like to see if there's any correlation and how much they changed for SVU. I mean, this story was extremely popular in the media as it was unfolding, of course, just because of the nature of it. What year was it?

2014. Okay. So this, I'm looking on IMBD.com. And this episode aired November 5th, 2014. And actually, when I scroll down, it says on here, it says this episode is based on the Slender Man Stabbing case from earlier in 2014. They really jumped on it because this, the whole thing unfolded in May of 2014. Can you even produce a show that fast? Apparently you can because this came out November 5th, 2014.

And here I am being like, oh, is it too soon to discuss this? It's 2012. Bet. We're on it. It's season 16, episode 6 if anyone wants to watch it. Well, as far as other shows that are based off of this, there are documentaries on HBO. There's an episode of 2020 that I watched for this. It's called The Wicked, and I can get into that later. But let's go on to the actual story. The real story. Yes, please.

The city of Wau, Wisconsin is a sleepy suburb of Milwaukee. In the late 19th century, the town became known far and wide for their natural springs, rich with minerals. The Victorians believed these healing waters could be used to treat a wide variety and range of illnesses and resorts and luxury hotels started popping up advertising these supposed benefits. In the latter part of the 20th century, the healing springs dried up and with it the spa business that was thriving in Waukesha. Today, around 71,000 people called the city home and with a crime rate of nearly three times lower than the U.S. average, Waucahaw wasn't really the place where residents gave violence. crime, much thought at all. That is until May 31st of 2014. It was a sunny day in the 70s and a normal day for Officer Dan Klein. He was on his way to investigate a call stating that someone had rearranged letters on a marquee board for a local business. And it didn't say in the documentary, like what it was rearranged to, but he said it was inappropriate and he was kind of chuckling about it so you can

only imagine. And that was kind of what he described as a typical walk-a-shock. call. Just... My kids will be kids. Or, you know, people just messing around, nothing super serious. And when he was en route to that call, dispatch radioed him to another more urgent matter. Earlier that morning, a cyclist was taking advantage of the warm weather and was cycling on Big Bend Road when he found an injured young girl laying in the grass at the edge of the

woodline. The cyclist stopped to help her when he noticed that she was having some difficulty breathing, and he called paramedics. Between her agonal breaths, she began telling him what had happened to her, and the story was almost too wild to believe. That morning, Stacey Lightner was at home when a knock on the door disrupted her slow Saturday morning. Two detectives were standing on her doorstep to deliver some terrifying news. Her daughter, Peyton, had been found seriously injured and she needed to get to the hospital immediately. Gathering her son, Caden, the pair rushed to the hospital where her 12-year-old daughter fought for her life.

When they arrived, Dan Klein, the first police officer to respond to the scene, stayed in the waiting room with Kaden, distracting him for hours while his parents spoke to doctors. It was a chaotic scene. Payton had just arrived and was being prepped for surgery. ER doctors were getting ready to scrub in, and detectives were already present, trying to gather as much information as they could just in case Peyton died on the surgery table. What the cyclist initially didn't see was clear to Officer Klein when he first approached Peyton. There was blood.

and a lot of it. When the ambulance arrived, she was loaded into the back and her clothing was cut away, and they started to count the wounds. One, two, three, 11, 15, 19 in total. Wow. By the time she reached the hospital, her blood pressure was dangerously low. Her heart was working in overdrive and she was pale as a ghost. Her wounds ended up being stab wounds. And while they were numerous, some of them were deep. Despite the agonizing pain, Peyton was able to communicate to Detective Michelle Trusone, who had attacked her, and the answer shocked everyone. It was her best friend, Morgan Geyser. As Peyton was wheeled into surgery, law enforcement rushed to the Geyser household. Nancy Geyser, Morgan's mom, opened the door to find law enforcement who had a lot of questions for her and her daughter.

Initially, they would not disclose what had happened. They just wanted to know where Morgan was. Her mother explained that her and some friends had left that morning to go play in the local park and she hadn't been home since. Those friends were Peyton and their other friend named Anisa. With the girls nowhere to be found at the guys are home, police quickly fanned out to Anissa Wire's home and David's Park, the local park in which the girls were supposedly spending the morning. There was no trace of the girls at the park or in the Wire home, and the mystery of what in the world was going on only deepened when Christy Wire, her daughter, Anisa's cell phone that had been left behind, which was odd to begin with

that she would leave her phone, especially, you know, a preteen girl. 2014 was still a time of cell phones. And the phone had a pretty ominous message. It read, this is my final wish for those who care. Do not grieve my absence, but remember me for who I was. I love you and cherish you all and wouldn't do you harm. The town of Waukesha now had one sixth grade. stabbed and fighting for her life in surgery and two others, MIA.

Law enforcement immediately shut down the entire neighborhood to protect the scene, and an overwhelming police presence overtook the small town in search for Morgan and Anisa. Police were scouring the streets by foot, helicopters circled the skies, and dogs sniffed through the woods. It didn't take long for the media to get involved, and almost immediately, several different local news stations were broadcasting the search live on air, reporting on any small amount of detail that they could convey at that present moment. At this point, it was still unclear as to what in the world happened and why. The most confused were Peyton, Morgan, and Anisa's families. The three girls were all close friends. In fact, they had just been having a sleepover the night before,

so where did it all go wrong? Peyton and Morgan had met in grade school. While Peyton was a bit more of a outgoing, bubbly, and positive young girl, Morgan was more on the shy, reserved, and quiet side. As a child, Morgan's family described her as happy and intensely creative, but in school, especially when she hit, like, fifth and early sixth grade time period, she endured a lot of relentless bullying, which, of course, took its toll. And for a time, and Peyton was actually one of Morgan's only friends, as many of the other students viewed her as a bit of an outsider and a loner and didn't really give her much in the way of time of day. So Morgan and Peyton were buddies.

With the start of their sixth grade year, a new student arrived at school and her name was Anisa. She and Morgan immediately bonded over their shared interests of horror and supernatural stories, their love of reading, and actually lived in the same apartment building. So not only were they geographically close, they became close because of the interest that Morgan and Peyton didn't particularly share. So that kind of strengthened their bond. And being neighbors, I mean, it's just all day. I imagine as kids, it's just like, okay, I'm out of school. Let's hang out.

Let's run across the hall. Yeah, you're in the same building. You're going to see each other every moment that you can, especially as a sixth grade girl. Yeah, I mean, I remember being close to my neighborhood friends growing up just because they were in my neighbor. You know? Yeah. It's just the way it goes. But Anisa, too, had a history of difficulty making friends. And because of that and the other things I just described, the two were really drawn together and they got close really quickly. And as their friendship started to blossom, Morgan and Peyton's began to wilt. The three were all, quote unquote, friends. But Peyton began feeling like kind of a third wheel from time to time when they were all together, especially as Anisa and Morgan grew closer. Peyton felt that Anisa was actually kind of rude and mean towards her at times. And eventually Morgan started pulling further and further away from her friendship with Peyton. Just because she felt a little uncomfortable. It wasn't anything personal. It was just the way it goes. Maybe she's being mean to her too.

I mean, that's kind of like, okay, you're not that nice. I don't know if I really want to hang out with you that much, but you're still in my friend group. It's complicated. When you're a sixth grader relationships and friendships are so weird and complicated. Especially if you're a young girl. It's just, I mean, there's a reason why mean girls, even though it was set in high school versus middle school, there's a reason why that movie and that story is so relatable is because it's true, you know? It's so true, yeah. And that's partially why Peyton may have been really looking forward to the night of May 30th. Morgan had invited her to a party and then to a sleepover at her house that night, which was a Friday night, along with Anisa. And it was actually celebrating her birthday that was earlier in the month.

It was kind of like her birthday party celebration. Which Morgan's birthday? Morgan. Oh, okay. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories,

and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. So Peyton packed her American Girl doll and her sleepover bag and got ready for the night. That Friday night, they were celebrating Morgan's birthday, like I said, at a place called Skateland, which is an indoor roller skating rink.

This is so nostalgic. American Girl Dolls, Roller Skating, sleepovers at your girlfriend's house. This is so I did all of these things. I remember, well, I didn't have an American Girl doll. Shocker. Wasn't much of a doll person? I had Samantha. For everyone who knows.

Oh, okay. Samantha, she was like kind of the original one, I think, and she had long brown hair. And then they kind of, I think they built off of Samantha. Or maybe there was one other one, but she was like a very popular one. A classic. Well, I do remember I had a birthday at a local indoor skating rink, roller rink, I should say, not ice skating, roller. And I was so young. I was like in elementary school.

And I remember there was a kid in my grade that I had invited along with a bunch of other people. And I don't know if he was like really comfortable on rollerblades, but he was doing his best and he actually like broke his wrist. Oh no. I know. I know. That's so sad. But you know what? Kids got to break shit when they're young.

It's just if you don't have some type of story of breaking something or seeing someone break something, were you even a kid? Yeah. Ponder that. Yeah. After the roller rink party, the three girls went back to Morgan's house. So just the three of them, there was a bunch of people at the big party. But then it was just the three of them at Morgan's house for the sleepover. And they would do what you expect three preteen girls to do.

They played with their dolls. They laughed. They ran around the house. They had snacks. And then they settled in for the night. The next morning, they woke up, had breakfast, and were playing dress up. They were trying on different versions of princess costumes and things like that. until Morgan announced that they should go outside and play in the park.

And this all seems innocent from the outside, but when you learn about what was truly going on behind the scenes and behind Peyton's back, it all takes a stomach twisting turn. But that is all the information that law enforcement had at the time, what Peyton managed to tell them before she was rolled into surgery and the information provided by the parents. That is what they had pieced together at that point in time. While Peyton was being operated on, Morgan and Anisa were finally located,

It was around 3 o'clock in the afternoon, and the pair were spotted sitting on the side of the highway. They had been walking for about five hours, and they made it several miles to the northern part of Waukishaw, when they were finally picked up by police and brought into the police station for questioning. At the time that they were brought in, Peyton was still in surgery, and it was unclear if this would turn into a homicide investigation. So the investigators were proceeding with caution in regards of how they handled this. Sure, and especially with children too. Right, which becomes a huge part of this. So the two girls were separated, put into different rooms,

and Detective Michelle Trusone was assigned to question Anisa, while Detective Tom Casey was assigned to question Morgan. And it's important to note that the two girls were read their rights, but in the state of Wisconsin, a child can be interrogated without a parent or a legal guardian if they choose to waive their rights, which both girls did. Okay, I get that that's illegal, but also that's very wrong. How can a child choose to waive their rights? They're a child. They don't have a firm understanding on what the gravity of what that decision is. Yeah, there's a reason they have guardians and parents because they can't make decisions like that, but continue. Well, that is one of the things that you're going to kind of be like, huh, doesn't really make sense. But that's just how it was. And for the next several hours, the story of what happened to Peyton just poured out of. of both of them. And the video footage is so chilling. They have video footage. Yeah. So the 2020 special that I watched in part for research shows video footage, a lot of it actually from the initial

questioning because obviously there's camera rolling in the police station. Oh, I thought you were saying video footage of what happened to Peyton. But also having interview, that's also really, really interesting to be able to see that. Mm-hmm. So the two girls were led into the respective rooms and they were sat down. They were of course read their rights, they waved them, etc. And both the girls had a relatively calm and meek demeanor when they first walked in, but they quickly started to show differences in the way that they relate the story and their attitudes about their involvement. While Anisa seemed a bit afraid and kind of more softer spoken, Morgan was very calm, very relaxed, very comfortable. And while her clothing was spattered with

Peyton's blood all the while. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's like nothing to see here. Everything's fine. Just the way. And even like her body language, she was just sitting there. She kind of had like her feet like tucked up and she was kind of hugging her knees a little bit and just nonchalantly, just explaining everything. And it's complicated. We'll get into it. But when she was asked what she was trying to do that day, she responded outright, quote, kill her. I mean, I might as well just say it. We were trying to kill her, end quote. Wow. This wasn't just a spur of the moment decision either. Anisa and Morgan had this in the works for months, and it all began with Slender Man. Do you know who Slender Man is? Do you know who Slender Man is? Um, I don't know him, but I would like to learn about him.

Okay. Well, you might want to look him up because I feel like the image will spur some memories. I think I've seen some pictures, maybe. Well, while you look, I will describe. The urban legend of Slender Man began in 2009 when the creator Eric Cunson, using the pseudonym Victor Surge, posted to the web forum named Something Awful. So that particular forum had held a contest challenging users to edit normal everyday pictures and photos to appear like their paranormal. And that is when Eric submitted two black and white pictures of children with his newly created. character that he dubbed Slender Man. That person was lurking in the in the background of each of these two pictures. And the character was depicted as an abnormally tall and thin man wearing a suit,

a black and white suit, and sported a blank featureless face. He's so creepy looking. I mean, Eric did a really good job of, you know, doing what the contest called for. For sure. It's subtle, yeah, it's really creepy because you're like filling in the blanks of like, who is this person? why are they there? It's not overtly scary. It's just scary enough to like really incite some fear. And that's kind of how it took hold and kind of became this big internet sensation. And accompanying the two pictures that he originally posted, there was a very vague short story claiming that over a dozen of the children in the pictures that he posted, along with the photographer of each photo, had gone missing.

like unexplainably missing. No one knows what happened. And that was the story of Slender Man, the original story. Okay. And within days, other users began adding their own characteristics to Slender Man, and they started adding their own details to fill in the story, add on to the story, and it just started taking on a life of its own. And before long, Slender Man exploded in popularity.

Eventually, thousands of people were recreating him in their own vision, adding different features, such as long black tendrils that would come out of his back, that would be used to strangle his victims. Like, that's another depiction you see a lot in the drawings now. And what was originally intended to just be like a meme, it snowballed into becoming cemented in the cultural mind and it was all over the internet. Slender Man has appeared in video games, YouTube series with millions of followers, he's been in Halloween costumes, and more.

And like I said, like you're like, I don't know if I know who that is. And as soon as you saw him, you're like, oh, yeah. I've definitely seen him around. Right. That's very telling of kind of what happened with him. And over time, fans wrote their own versions of the Slender Man story. However, the themes, the same, like, general themes of him being tall and thin and faceless

and often standing in or very nearby the woods or the edge of the woods. And the fact that he was always kind of stalking children was always incorporated. That was kind of like the basis that everyone built upon. Many of those fan stories wound up on the creepy pasta website, a place where paranormal fictional stories are shared but delivered as if they were true rather than just like the spooky campfire fashion and version. Sure. Like you're telling it in a way of that this is something I saw or this is something you

will absolutely see if you go here kind of thing. Right. It wasn't a like spooky. Everyone knows that it's fake type of thing. It was delivered in a way that made it seem very real. And that is where 12-year-old Anisa Wire first was introduced to Slender Man. She confided in Morgan about the story and the two of them became quite obsessed with it. They had read that Slender Man resided in Wisconsin's very own Shawomigan Nicolay National Forest.

That's a mouthful. It sure is. And it does not look like Shawamigan. I'll tell you that when you look at the actual spelling of it. So hopefully I did that justice, everyone from Wisconsin. But yeah, here's the National Forest tie-in. This is where Slender Man supposedly lives. So let's talk about the National Forest for a second.

Oh, there it is. This national forest is the largest in the state and covers more than one and a half million acres of Wisconsin's north woods. The Forest Service manages the land for a lot of different uses, including forestry, wildlife habitat, recreation, harvesting of forest products, fisheries, and, of course, wilderness and natural areas. The Northwoods ecoregion is dotted with wetlands, meadows, pine savannas, rivers streams, different glacial lakes, and is known as a transition area as it sits between the boreal forest

to the north and the temperate deciduous forests and tall grass prairies to the south and west. So it's a really special and important place. The National Forest was established in 1933 and was created to help rubeausible. reforest the landscape after what's called the Great Cutover in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Due to the overlogging in the 1900s, it doesn't contain much old growth, but thousands of tourists visit every year for recreational activities like we talk about all the time from camping, hiking, fishing, and different snow sports. The most common wildlife in this forest includes white-tailed deer, black bear, and beavers, but more elusive animals such as the gray wolf and

pine martin are also here. And it was supposedly here in the middle of this national forest that Slender Man lived in a giant mansion, right smack dab, in the middle of this national forest. And is there a mansion that's there in this national forest? Not that I could tell. Like, I don't think this is based on any remnants of a house that then got turned into the story. It's just making up that there's a mansion in this national forest, but there's not actually one. Right. And it's also making up that.

Makes the story less plausible. We're also talking about Slender Man. Slender Man is not real. Yeah. Right, right. Slanderman is not real. Just let's put that out there right now. Yeah.

But Morgan and Anisa were convinced otherwise. They truly believed that Slender Man was real. He had this mansion in the National Forest. And in order for them to be welcomed there, to live in this mansion and to prove themselves worthy, and also, and most importantly, to save themselves and their own families, from harm that they needed to kill someone. Wow, that's heavy. And that someone ended up being their friend Peyton. That's awful. It's so bad. It's so bad especially because it's not real. Yeah. It's fake and it's like brainwashing. And were they, I have a question, I guess, were they in communication with someone online who is feeding them all this? Or is this just like

secondhand information of people writing things and posting photos that they're reading online? Correct, the latter. So it wasn't. they weren't being fed this information from one person in particular. It was just browsing the internet, going on creepy pasta, going on all these different internet forums that were spreading the story of Slender Man. And we'll dive a little bit deeper into, you know, the ins and outs of what was really going on psychologically with Anisa and Morgan at this time in regards to their belief in Slender Man. But to them, it was real.

It was like he was going to come after them and their families if they didn't essentially sacrifice someone for him. So that's what started. That was the seed that sprouted into this whole thing. I mean, if you're a kid and that's something you really honestly believe, that's really scary. But if you really believe it and I think the jury is still out, so to say, I mean, they're not. I mean, they make a decision in the end. But just as the phrase goes, I think the jury is still out. As far as public opinion, it was a really divisive case because, and I know I'm jumping ahead of myself here, but a lot of people, half of the people were kind of like, there's something psychologically wrong and they need help. And this is a tragedy, but they're unwell to the other

half being like, this is just an evil crime and they're kind of pinning, or they're painting it to be like they had a psychological issue when in fact they were just wanted to kill someone and do some harm to somebody. And they're using it as an excuse to say that they really believed in him, you know, so anyways. Kids are so, are influencing. so easily and to have that be something that you really believe is real. It's just there's so many layers to it, but it's also, I feel like another example of why monitoring what your kids are watching on the internet is so important because it's so hard these days too, especially like YouTube inserts all these weird, creepy ads and things into people's children's

programming that I think YouTube is actively trying to get rid of, but it's the internet and people like sneak in and get in and I've been with friends who have children and they'll go on and there's like a really creepy ad for a child that pops up in the middle of their show and it's just like there's so much creepy stuff on the internet that it's hard to do that but it's just it's so difficult to do that and especially this is 10 years ago this is the internet of 10 years ago when I don't even know if child controls were a thing and also I think there's something to be said about parents not knowing the extent of what was available to kids online at that time. It was a newer, it was a newer time of things for sure. Yeah. So we'll get into it a bit. But let's go back to

kind of like the original plan because we're getting ahead of ourselves. Yeah. So the original plan that the two girls had in their mind ironed out had been going on for six months. So they have been premeditated discussing, planning, going over details for almost. half a year before the night of their sleepover. They discussed the plan in detail amongst themselves for weeks, especially leading up to that night, planning every single move and every detail, and they even spoke about it on the school bus in front of other kids. But what they were doing is they were in case, you know, people were eavesdropping or, you know, sitting too close to them and hearing parts of their conversation. They started using code words when they were speaking about

their plan to literally kill someone in front of the public, they would switch up words. So, for example, instead of saying knife, they would say Cracker. Or instead of saying killing, like we're going to kill this person or what are we going to do, it became itch. Like killing and kill became itch. Interesting. In her initial sit down with police, Morgan said to Detective Casey, quote, You have no idea how hard it was to not tell anyone. It was a flawless plan. And, And that plan was roughly the following. So I contensed it down a little bit, just so it's kind of a little easier to follow. But basically, six months of planning boiled down to this.

On the night of the sleepover, and this is warning. I should say this at the beginning of every true crime episode. It's graphic. Someone tried to kill somebody else. It's going to be harsh. So on the night of the sleepover, the girls would return to Morgan's house after the party at Skatland. They would play, go to bed as normal.

Nothing would be abnormal on that end. But Morgan was going to set an alarm on her iPad for 2 a.m. But instead of just setting it on her iPad and putting it down, she attached her headphones to the iPad so that the alarm wouldn't wake anyone else up, especially Peyton. And once Morgan was awake, she would then rouse Anisa, wake up her. The pair would then duct tape Peyton's mouth shut, stab her in the neck, and leave. At their house? Yeah.

And that's why it's not going to know who did that. And it's like, how is this a flawless plan? Because I already see so many flaws. But again, we're talking about 12-year-old girls. Yeah. So let's keep that in mind. And that's exactly what they did as far as up to the point where the alarm went off. So they did.

They set the alarm. They went to bed knowing that this is what they were going to do in the upcoming hours. But as soon as the alarm went off and Morgan woke up Anisa, they decided that they were just too sleepy. and tired from their long night at Skatland. So they didn't want to go through with it at that time because they were just too exhausted. So they decided from there that they were going to go back to sleep, not kill Peyton in that moment, and they would do it the next day. And in the interview, initial interview, Morgan said to the detective that she just wanted to give Peyton one more mourning of life. Oh, we just decided to give her. Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, thank you. Thank you.

You're doing her such a favor after pretending to be her friend and playing with her and hanging out and doing girl things for hours and hours. The morning came and the girls all woke up, had breakfast, and started playing dress up. As Peyton was trying on a pink princess costume in the bathroom, Anisa and Morgan were whispering about concocting a plan B because they didn't have a plan B up until that moment. Remembering that the local park had a public bathroom with cement floors and drains in the floor, the girls believed it would be the perfect place to do the deed because blood would flow down the drain and make less of a mess. Agreeing that this was a good idea, because Anisa was kind of the one to suggest that, Morgan asked her mom if they could go play outside at the park, to David's Park. It just seems so innocent from the outside. As a mom, I would never.

Never. Never. And a million years think that that was going on. With permission granted, from Morgan's mom, Morgan discreetly grabbed a five-inch kitchen knife, slipped it into her waistband, and the trio left. Once in the bathrooms at the park, Anisa recalled how she read online that it was easier to kill someone if they were either asleep or unconscious and if you didn't look them directly in the eye. exchanging knowing looks with Morgan, Anisa attempted to knock Peyton's head against the concrete in an effort to knock her out, but she was unsuccessful, and she played it off as an accident, and the three of them left the bathroom. So now with Plan B failing, Morgan and Anisa devised their third and final plan. Explaining to Peyton that they decided they'd like to try birdwatching, they led her over to a more remote and thickly wooded part of the park. Once they meandered around for a bit bird watching, quote unquote. Also a wholesome, very innocent activity. Mm-hmm. They suggested that they all play a game of hide and seek. Again, how many times have you played hide and seek in your life? So many times, especially as a child and that age. The plan was Morgan was

going to count and Peyton and Anissa would run off and hide. Morgan turned her back and began counting while Anisa and Payton took off together. And Anisa suggested a tactic to Peyton that she should lie down and cover herself with leaves and remain really still and quiet. She's like, this is the perfect way to hide. She's never going to find you. Yada, yada. So Payton took the advice while Anisa ran off to find her own hiding spot. You know, to Peyton, that's what it looked like. But in reality, she was looping back to meet back up with Morgan to launch their attack on Peyton. This is so calculated. I know. And they're like adjusting to circumstances. They're improvising. Yeah. Yeah. It's all very, very chilling. And in the video footage of Anisa at the police station, the way that she describes what happens next is just again, like, oh my God, like so calculated. And so what she says essentially was that the two of them, so Morgan and Anisa, would quote, act like two lionesses taking down a zebra. I was going to tackle her and then Morgan was going to do the stabbing. It's awful. Morgan would launch the attack on Anisa's command. And when the

pair were about five feet away from Peyton, Anisa gave Morgan the signal. And in the interview, reflecting on that moment that she gave the command, she reflected on it saying that when she like kind of gave the nod and the go ahead, in her mind, she was saying, quote, now, go ballistic, go crazy, make sure she's down. This is horrible. I know. And with this, Morgan jumped on top of Peyton, who may I remind you, is lying perfectly still and covered unethical. under leaf litter and brush because she thinks she's playing a game of hide and seek with her best friends, Morgan jumps on top of her and she just starts stabbing at her wildly, erratically and repeatedly. After the stabbing is done, Anisa and Morgan just stood over Peyton for a couple of moments in dead silence,

not looking at each other, just looking down at Peyton. To see if she was alive? Yeah, just kind of probably processing what had just happened. I mean, they spent six months planning this, and it just happened in like the blink of an eye. Seconds? Yeah, they're probably just standing there like, oh my God. Now what? Now what?

Right. Peyton attempted to stand up and was scrambling for her footing and she actually said, I trusted you to the girls as she's fumbling around trying to get her footing after being stabbed 19 times. Morgan and Anisa suddenly kind of snapped out of their blank stare and they crouched down to her. And they started reassuring her saying that, you know, you should just lie down. don't move, they're going to go get her help. And then they just took off. Wow. Even after doing it and then still continuing, like, and I know doing it in general is horrible, but to actually commit it and look at what you just did and see that they're still alive and need help and then to still continue following

through your plan is just another level of what are you doing? This is so calculated and horrible. So they run off and I'm pretty sure. sure that Peyton knew in that moment they're not in fact going to get help. I'm sure. They're fleeing the scene. At the police station, the girls relayed generally the same string of events with some slight variations. Detective Trusone recalled Anisa recalling what happened very clearly and she was more of like, this is what happened style, like just relaying facts. Whereas Detective Casey, who was questioning Morgan, says that she was interjecting a lot of I thinks and started saying, I'm not sure. And she was being really deflective and trying to shift a lot of

the blame onto Anisa. And it comes out, you know, later in the video footage that Morgan, when the detective asked her, you know, who, who stabbed first, who made the first move, she gets really frustrated. And she's like, I don't know. Like, maybe it was me. Maybe it wasn't. Like, I'm not, how do you expect me to remember that? Like, she was annoyed that they were asking her. Well, first of all, she was acting annoyed, but second of all, she's clearly lying. I mean, she's the only one who did the stabbing and Peyton and Anisa know that. And yet she's saying that maybe it was her and maybe it was somebody else. You know what I'm saying? There was one knife. It was one or the other. Yeah. Yeah, you weren't handing the knife off and taking turns. So it's just kind of that thing. Just shifting the

blame a little bit, taking a lot of the pressure off of her in some ways. Whereas Anisa was kind of like, I don't know, when I watched it, I got the feeling of in her mind, she was kind of just like, okay, the gig is up and this is what happened. Whereas Morgan was making it a little more complicated. Yeah, she's still fighting it. She's still not trying to be truthful or honest, even though clearly it needs to come out now. And this is hours after the stabbing. This wasn't days, weeks.

They've been picked up. They're covered in her blood. Both of them, their shirts and their clothing have Payton's blood on it still. like this isn't someone trying to recall events from a month ago, this just happened. So that's a little more concerning. Yeah. And at this point, they don't know the status of Peyton, whether she's alive or not. Right. So Peyton was still actively in surgery when this was happening. And they have no parents with them at the time either. Mm-hmm. Correct. Which is not good for invests. I mean, I guess you said in Wisconsin it's legal, but not a good move. While both statements from both of the girls were shocking in their own ways, some statements and the way in which Morgan in particular was recalling, her version of events was extremely unsettling. For example, saying, quote, I didn't know exactly what would happen, but I figured I'd get in trouble for this eventually. And, quote, people who trust you become very gullible. It was actually sort of sad.

It's weird, though. I thought I'd feel remorse, but I don't. I was expecting to be put in prison or an insane asylum, but I wasn't sure which. I don't think I'm insane, though. Like, she's just riffing and kind of just saying whatever come to mind. Clearly not that phased by what is happening. And when she was asked to go over what had happened again, so she kind of explained everything, and then the detective was just going over certain parts of the story and asking her to reiterate it,

she kind of rolls her eyes and sighs like she's annoyed and says, are you trying to do this over and over again to see if I tell the story differently? Like, just like she's annoyed at the detective for asking her questions. And the detective, Detective Casey, remarked in the 2020 special that's titled The Wicked, that Morgan was very aware of what was going on the entire time and was actually very sophisticated. And he was kind of at moments having to remind himself that he's talking to a twigree. 12-year-old child. Like, she just didn't seem like a child. Mm-hmm. Anisa recalled that Peyton was scrambling to get up after the attack,

saying that she couldn't see, she couldn't walk, she couldn't breathe, she couldn't take a full breath, and that they had lied to her saying that she should stay still. That way, she didn't lose blood while they were going to fetch help. But in reality, she admits that they wanted her to bleed out and die while they ran off. And what the girls were unaware of, like you just mentioned, was the status. of what had happened to Peyton. And they had no idea that she had been found alive. In the middle of questioning, Anisa actually just stops the detective, Detective Trusone,

and asked what happened to Bella's body. And the girls called Peyton Bella. That was her nickname because there was another girl in their class that was also named Peyton. So it was just a way that they distinguished her. Okay. So they kind of referred to her on and off as either Peyton or Bella. and when she asked, Detective Trusone actually said, well, where do you think she is? And Anisa said, well, still at the crime scene.

Meanwhile, Morgan asked what had happened to Bella, asking flat out and nonchalantly, is she dead? Like, yes or no, is she dead? Did we kind of like complete our mission type of style? And it was at that point that the girls were informed that Peyton was in fact alive and in surgery. Anisa simply said, oh, okay. And she later remarked that the good part of her wanted her to live, but the bad part of her wanted her to die. And while there was very real concern that Peyton would die, she eventually pulled through her procedure, which lasted over six hours. Yeah, being stabbed 19 times, you said?

I just imagine there's so much whatever they stabbed organs. It's just... There was a lot of damage. And while some of them were superficial, because, again, this is... a 12-year-old just kind of willy-nilly stabbing around blindly, doctors remarked how extensive some of the injuries were and how one in particular that was in her chest came within a human hair width away from striking her heart, which would have proved fatal. So she almost died. She was very, very, very close to dying. But while she was in recovery, Peyton actually explained

in further detail her side of events, describing how during the attack she was initially in shock, She had no idea what was going on and didn't feel much in those initial first moments. But eventually she began screaming in agony. And when Anissa and Morgan explained that they'd go find help, she laid there for a couple of brief moments after they had left, but quickly gathered all of her strength that she had to pull herself up. And she used the trees, like the trunks and the branches of the trees, to aid and support her as she walked out of the thicker part of the wood.

that they were in until she could go on no further and she laid down in a patch of grass. And she was in and out of consciousness until that cyclist eventually found her. Wow. So that's how she wound up in the grass. If she had stayed where she was initially. No one would have found her. But yeah, she probably would have died from blood loss at that point. Investigators began dipping into Anisa and Morgan's lives.

and what they found was pretty disturbing, but supported what they had told investigators that this has been in the works for a really long time. In Anisa's locker, there was one drawing of Slender Man, but in Morgans, there were many different drawings and different writings related to Slender Man. There were lists of supplies that they needed in order to kill Peyton. There was tons of notebooks filled with all types of different writings and drawings depicting Slender Man, like I said. But in Morgan's room, investigators found, you know, at first they walked into a normal young girl's bedroom. Nothing seemed out of place or weird or kind of concerning. Nothing raised any flags on surface level value. Exactly.

But tucked away in her drawers and then in kind of like the back of her closet, there were a lot of items that were really disturbing. There were strange drawings, mutilated dolls with their hands, arms, and legs cut off. They had like marks on the dolls, kind of like a circle with an X drawn through them of kind of like maybe places to hit and stab somebody. There were all these different writings with ominous messages, including I love killing people. Like really alarming. Dark, disturbing. But I feel like they're finding a lot of information that is kind of pointing to that Morgan was most likely the ringleader of this entire operation. Well, it's so hard because, yes, I agree.

with that, like, boiled down. But Anisa was still very heavily involved. Of course. Yeah. And both of the girls' internet history and email exchanges revealed thousands of searches, including how to get away with murder and what type of insane, am I, quizzes. And Morgan had even sent Anisa an email the week prior to when they launched the attack, reminding her to clear out her internet history.

It's just so calculated. Well, Morgan also used the school library to check out books on crime scene investigation, the prison system in the United States, and different mental conditions. So she could be, it sounds like she was watching too many maybe Law & Order SVU and Law and Order episodes where she was like, how can I plead not guilty because of reason of insanity? So interesting, you say that because, again, with the public divide on what's what that means, half the people are like, see, there, clear as day. She's concocting this whole thing. It's super calculated. She knows what she's doing. And then the other half who are thinking that there's something seriously mentally wrong, that she's literally just trying to understand what's happening to her mentally. And I can see points to both sides, but at face value immediately, I mean, if this was an adult, especially, I mean, there's also a different thing because she is a child at this time. If it was an adult, And you saw that between the internet history, people coming forward saying that they talked about this for six months, all these different checking out of resources and making sure people involved clear any traces of this research. Like, it's so apparent that this is so premeditated in a way that's hard to explain a way by mental illness. Yeah, mental issue.

So all this to say that neither family had any clue that any of this. was happening and they were completely unaware of, of course, the different searches and the email exchanges. But Morgan's mother did say that she was aware of her daughter's fascination with Slender Man. She had discussed it with her mom before, like bringing him up and things like that. But her mom was really adamant that she had no idea that her daughter actually thought Sunder Man was real. It was just a thing that she knew Morgan was aware of, but she didn't think that her daughter truly thought there was a man that lived in the woods that killed children and their families. Well, it kind of reminds me of if you learn your kid and I feel like you might relate to this

Morris, that a kid who has morbid curiosities. Like you're just, oh, you're into this paranormal, weird, fictional character that you think is fun. It's like, you know, why would you think anything more dark from that? A hundred percent. And that's why it's like it is to blame the parents and the parents got a lot of flack, you know, when this was especially unfolding, like, how did you not know? Like, da-da-da-da. And that's so unfair. And Morgan's mom even said in the 2020 special, she gave an example of this, kind of like you just said. She's like, when I was her age, I was fascinated with Stephen King. And I remember riding around on my bike, like with Stephen King's It novel, like under my arm. And, you know, reading about this clown thing that lives in the sewer system. And I loved Stephen King,

but I didn't actually think he was real. Like, so I wasn't concerned that my daughter... Like his stories were real. Stephen King is real. Right. The story. The clown I meant. Yeah.

Yeah. But you know what I mean? Like, she wasn't concerned. She's like, this is a normal thing. Like, I mean, in your, with your kid, the first thing you don't think of is that they're plotting murder as a 12 year old child. Especially because her daughter never showed any concerning signs that... I do. Like she wasn't mutilating animals.

No. In the backyard. But like in her bedroom, she was mutilating dolls and she was writing killing things. But she was hiding those things. But she was hiding those things. Yeah. I think that it's hard because part of it is like there are signs, but you didn't see them. But also your daughter was very actively hiding them too.

So it's not necessarily your fault. But there are signs. And I'm not saying it's the parents' fault that they missed them because they're being actively hidden. But there definitely are signs. that could have been seen if their parents like were. And I don't condone like going through your kid's stuff and like being super nosy either unless you really feel like there's a necessity for it, which obviously they didn't. So it's it's hard. It's a hard.

I don't think that the parents are fully to blame, but then also who knows? Because then you go down the path of what is their childhood like? Well, how have they been raised? What are their parents like? And then that's a whole different ballpark. Yeah. Exactly. Detective Casey remarked on the 2020 special that Morgan especially taught herself a lot of police tactics.

She researched past cases to see how they unfolded in the court of law. Essentially, she prepared herself and planned ahead of time on how to act and even remarked, he remarked the detective, quote, if she wasn't 12, I would have thought she was some type of sociopath or seasoned criminal. Like that's how alarming not only her behavior in the interview was, but when they started finding out more and more of the preparation that she did for this, they were like, oh, this is very concerning. This isn't a spur of the moment thing. This is very frightening, especially coming from a 12-year-old.

Yeah, and I think part of why this is really concerning too is because you can't argue she didn't know this was wrong because everything that she's doing, all this planning, fully indicates that she knew that this was wrong. And she was planning for the fact that she might get caught and how to get away with her. with it because she knew what she was doing was wrong. It gets complicated, though. So both girls were arrested for first degree attempted homicide. When their families arrived at the police station and were filled in with what had happened, they were completely shocked, taking aback.

You know, this was the shock of the century for them. Morgan's mom was so surprised. She even said, well, my daughter wouldn't hurt a fly. She's like, what, what do you mean? She just tried to kill someone. She's never tried to harm anything in her life. Yeah. Anise's mom recalls that her daughter was really scared. And the following day, the Geyser and Wire families found out that their 12-year-old daughters would be tried as adults. Because in the state of

Wisconsin, there are a certain set of categories of violent offenses, including attempted homicide, that if they're committed by anyone over the age of 10, that they would be tried as an adult. Sometimes I wonder where they get these numbers from. Why is 10? The age of? age. Right. I'm sure there's some sort of reasoning. I don't know. You were the psychology major. You tell me. Well, that's part of why I'm thinking about it. Like, why? There's so much research that shows that children's brains aren't formed until they're in their 20s fully. You know, so why is it, why is it 10 years old? I just, I don't understand that. And when you look a lot into the law and things that were decided, especially if they were decided a long time ago, a lot of them are just willy-nilly, someone. one's opinion. Right. So I'm not sure of that answer, but I know that the decision was made as a part of this get tough on crime initiative that the state was trying to enforce. And it's a horrific crime. It is. And essentially the goal of that get tough on crime thing was to get the message across to everyone that even if you're young, if you commit a horrible crime, a heinous crime, you're going to be

treated as an adult. Like, you do this, this is what happens. It doesn't matter. But what happens if a mental disorder is thrown into the mix? Makes it more complicated. And that's exactly what happened. While Morgan's mom was initially shocked, like I said, she was taken aback completely. She later admitted that she wasn't entirely surprised because a mental disorder ran in the family. Morgan's father, Matthew, was diagnosed with schizophrenia as a teenager and he was hospitalized four different times for schizophrenia by the time he was 15 years old. Oh, wow. He later went on disability as a result of his schizophrenia diagnosis, but he tried his best to

manage his symptoms and to keep his mental state as stable as possible with different medications and going for psychological aid and help, and he was really trying his best to manage it. That's really young too because a lot of people diagnosed with schizophrenia. It's usually in your early 20s is when people really start. It's like the most diagnosis that happened. So the fact that he was dealing with it as a child, that's really young. Exactly. And within several weeks of Morgan's arrest, a competency hearing was held for Morgan,

which resulted in a diagnosis of early onset schizophrenia. And typically, like you said, people are not diagnosed with this. mental disorder or any mental disorder that causes psychotic thinking until they're in their late teens or early 20s. But in very rare cases, children 12 years old and younger can be psychotic, says psychiatrist C. Raymond Lake, who worked as part of this case. Deborah Collins, a forensic psychologist who worked for the defense, also stated that following Morgan's arrest, Morgan continued to believe in fantasy characters and actually opposed taking medications out of fear that she would lose her quote-unquote friends.

And these friends were imaginary figures that she claimed would speak to her. And the defense argued that Morgan truly, truly thought that she was at the mercy of Slender Man this entire time. In 2014, the girls were sent to the county juvenile detention facility while court proceedings dragged forward. And usually this facility serves as a temporary holding facility and people don't stay too too long. there, but in Anisa and Morgan's cases, they were there for over a year. It was almost 32 months. And it wasn't just the time that they spent there that concerned their families. It was the conditions in which they were existing that was the most concerning for the girls' families. Morgan's mom actually posted a change.org petition that outlined some of the concerns that both

the families had for their girls. The change.org petition outlined some of the concerns. that Morgan's family had. And she wrote, quote, Our beautiful daughter Morgan is 12 years old and has been diagnosed with childhood onset schizophrenia. Unfortunately, her diagnosis came too late, and she is being charged as an adult for a crime that occurred last May.

Morgan has spent the majority of the past 11 months in a windowless jail where she has no access to the outdoors and is not allowed physical contact with her family. This is a situation that would be harmful to the development of any child, but especially so for a child with a serious mental illness. She has received no treatment for her brain disease since being diagnosed. This is extremely concerning because research has shown that early treatment of schizophrenia and psychosis

improves long-term prognosis. We are worried that if Morgan does not receive treatment soon, we will lose her to her disease. Morgan's attorney recently filed a motion to have her bail reduced to a signature bond on the condition that Morgan be transferred to a residential treatment center, Judge Bolrin denied the motion, stating that Morgan is a danger to the community and a flight risk. We do not believe that this is true. Morgan has had no history of violence prior to the incident in May

and has displayed no violent behavior since. Her actions that tragic day were a direct result of the delusions she suffers because of her schizophrenia. In reality, the longer Morgan goes without treatment, the more dangerous she becomes. Every day that passes without treatment decreases the likelihood that she will recover and have the opportunity to be a productive member of society.

Morgan is just a child, and she deserves that opportunity and a second chance at life. So that was the change.org petition that her mother put up, obviously, very shortly, you know, within a year of her being placed in the detention center. Yeah.

I mean, a lot of her points are extremely valid. and the fact that she was diagnosed and now she's just being completely ignored for a mental illness that she has is not right. I also think that she very much so breezes past. The crime, she makes it sound like she went shoplifting or something, but she didn't. She attempted to murder someone by stabbing them 19 times. So I think all of her points are very valid, but she's also missing a key point in the petition of why she's there. But it's not right for her to be in a windowless cell without any treatment at all. Of course.

That's not. That's not right. And, you know, again, I agree with your point that receiving no mental health support, especially after just being diagnosed with schizophrenia, is not right. But some of the point she was making, she's like, she has no physical contact with her family and she's in a windowless cell. It's like, well, she tried to kill someone. So that's, I don't know.

She hasn't gone on trials. She hasn't been convicted of a crime yet. That's true. Like this is all, like we know that it happened and we, we understand that and we can say that, but she's being treated this way without even being convicted yet. And she's a kid. And she's a kid. And she's a child.

Yeah. Like all of this isn't right. Like what happened is really, really wrong. And we have to figure out like if she actually is a danger to society forever, how to handle this, especially if it is a mental illness. But to do that by not addressing a mental illness and locking her up in a cell with no help at all is it's wrong. Yeah. And I think that's why this case is so interesting and creates such discussion and obviously is divisive because of these different points and these different things

and how you view them and all of that. So along with the concern of the no mental health treatment, the center provided, as Morgan's mom outlined in that petition, very minimal access to the outdoors, allowed no physical contact with visitors, which is difficult on anyone, especially a child and a human that is in the process of developing into an adult. So really critical years of somebody's life. That's obviously the concern for long lasting impact and how that's going to affect someone long term was her priority at the time. And Anisa was also involved in this. I'm just highlighting Morgan's mother's wording. Petition.

Yep. So she's also away under the same circumstances. Correct. Yep. Meanwhile, lawyers for both Anisa and Morgan fought to get their cases moved out of the adult court system and into the juvenile court system. But that was denied. And at this point, the now 13-year-old girls were confirmed to be tried as adults. Both pled not guilty by reason of mental defect or disease and their trials moved forward. Public opinion was divided, of course. Some believed that they deserved. to be tried as adults as they were dangerous and clearly proved that to be true by planning

and attempting to kill another child, while others believed that they were still children themselves clearly suffering from some sort of mental disorder that required help. So like we discussed, you know, over and over already. Yeah. Peyton actually weighed in publicly in the 2020 interview. Of course, this was after. Just to make that clear. This wasn't during the ongoing. Correct. This was afterwards. But she was. She said that she truly believed that at the time, Anisa and Morgan genuinely thought that Slender Man was real. But she did also say an adult crime equals adult court. And she was very adamant about that.

Can I ask how old she was when she said this? This was a couple of years later. So she's still a kid? No. So she wasn't an adult in the 2020 interview. Let me just make sure. I want to say she was like 18 or 19, but I just want to make sure. So it came out in 20.

19. And she was 12 when it happened in 2014. So five. So she's about 17 or 18. Yeah. So she was about 17 or 18. So she was an adult. Kind of. I do think that stuff like this, not diminishing her opinion because I think it's really important, but to say like you think that this needs to be tried in an adult court for an adult crime, you're not really educated on that if you're 17 or 18. Like I think that that is something for a psychologist to determine if the people, committing the crime are in the state of a mind of an adult or a child. I think that that's more for the professionals to determine where that should lie. Yeah, she also went on to say that if you stole a candy bar, sure, juvenile court, but you tried to kill someone. And valid, very valid. So there's

something to be said about that. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's a horrible and it's a horrific crime and it is an adult crime. But if this really truly is a child dealing with severe schizophrenia, it's a lot harder. It's not, it's just so hard to say if it's one way or another. In 2018, Morgan's lawyers eventually cut a deal with prosecutors. During her sentencing hearing, Morgan broke down in tears and went on to explain how sorry she was to Bella's family, because remember she referred to her as Bella. The judge ordered her to 40 years in a mental hospital after she pled guilty to intentional first degree homicide. In 2017, Anisa's case went to trial, but she almost immediately accepted a plea deal. This triggered another trial to determine several things, including if she suffered

from a mental defect, should she be held responsible? And if so, what should that treatment or punishment look like? Melissa Westendorf was appointed by a judge to evaluate Anisa after her insanity plea. Because remember most of this with the schizophrenia, that was for Morgan. And that was all during her trial. So the question of, is Anisa in the same

category, in the same boat? So this is what this trial is trying to determine. And Miss Westendorf testified at Anisa's mental capacity trial that she believed Anisa suffered from what is known as Foley-Doo, which is French

for Folly of Two or madness shared by two, also known as shared psychosis or shared delusional disorder, or SDD. And SDD is a rare psychiatric syndrome in which symptoms of a delusional belief, such as Slender Man, and sometimes hallucinations are transmitted or shared from one individual to another. And the argument was because she suffered from SDD, this left Anisa unable to conform her conduct or her behavior to the law when she and Morgan tried to kill their friend in 2014. So basically she said that Anisa is not schizophrenic like Morgan, but she was suffering from the shared delusional disorder and kind of got wrapped up in it and it's rare, but it happens

and that was her argument. It's like a really complicated way of saying that children are very easily influenced by other children. In a way, yeah. It's kind of what it sounds like. She also went on to acknowledge that the condition is extremely rare among two children who are friends and said that most cases involve spouses, a parent or a child, or siblings. And when asked why Anisa, an intelligent young woman, didn't recognize that the belief in Slender Man and his powers to kill them or their families was a delusion

because by all accounts, Anisa otherwise was extremely smart. And it's kind of like why is this one particular thing she had a delusion about? And Melissa responded, quote, first of all, she was 12. If adults have trouble distinguishing fake news, 12-year-olds will because their brains can't yet discern or analyze as well. So that's something else to consider. Yeah. Children aren't developed yet.

It's just a fact. The prosecution fired back that Anisa didn't clearly tell anyone that she was afraid of Slender Man's wrath until after the stabbing, reinforcing that she was very well aware and very well understood that what they were doing was wrong and that she went along with the plot to preserve her friendship with Morgan. And in the 2020 special, one of the investigators said something really interesting when commenting on how rare the shared delusion syndrome is and understanding that to be true, you know, he admitted, yes, this is a real phenomenon, it happens, and it's rare, we also have to consider that there's also something else out there that is also very rare

and that you have to consider as a possibility. And that is simply that you just have two evil kids. Yeah. And I think that it's something to circle back on what you talked about before is that you have to remember that they were looking up mental illnesses. And I have to wonder if this is something that they thought of or read about before this is coming to light now. I mean.

But Morgan's dad did have, it is a genetic. Yeah, for sure. And maybe it is real for Morgan. But for the other girl, she was Googling this stuff too. And both of them were looking into mental illness. And not to say she didn't have schizophrenia, but it was kind of planned that they were going to give a mental illness defense when they were caught. So it could be valid or it might not. But then you also have to think their children, how manipulative can you be as a child?

but it's not like other children aren't manipulative and it's not like we haven't seen it in other cases. I mean, if you looked at who was it? I can. I think of his name. It was that guy. They did a documentary on him recently. Jeffrey Dahmer. Jeffrey Dahmer.

As a child or a teenager. And as a child, he was showing some weird things. He was killing animals and stuff. And then as a teenager, he was like luring people to his house and was planning things. And, you know, it's just, yeah, who's to say? Who is to say? And that's why it's so difficult and why I kind of shy away from doing true crime episodes that especially deal with different types of mental disorders and the fact that there's children involved.

It's so complicated. And you have to tread really lightly. And there's just so much out there that, I mean, some people will say it plain. They're like, these kids were just fucked up. And they wanted to kill someone and they tried to. It didn't work. And they should go to prison and they should have been a tried as with. adults and everything went as it should have while others are like they're just two really sick

children that made a mistake and were untreated for a mental disorder and went down that road. So, and again, like I said a million times, I can see the points on either side and that's what makes this so complicated. But as far as what actually happened, it was up to the jury to decide if Anisa would receive prison time or be sent to a mental institution and they came back after 12 hours of deliberation with a decision. Their verdict read not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect and agreed that she should be sent to a mental institution similar to Morgan. And the judge gave the final judgment and committed Anisa to the maximum sentence of 25 years at the mental hospital. So Morgan got 40 years and Anisa got 25.

Okay. Under Wisconsin law, petitions for release from a mental institution can be done every six months. In July of 2021, the judge granted Anisa's conditional release from the Winnebago Mental Health Institute and she was released in September of that year. After finding there was no clear and convincing evidence that the defendant, Anisa, poses a substantial risk of harm to others herself or serious property damage. So basically, she earned her way out of there. And part of her release involved some different requirements that she had to adhere to, such as she had to live with her parent. So she lived with her father. She had to submit to GPS monitoring and she had to commit to receiving regular psychiatric treatment

even though she was released and no longer in the hospital. So she was released in September of 2021. Morgan remains incarcerated at the Winnebago Mental Health Institute. In May of 2023, so just a couple months ago, a petition for her release was presented. But then it was withdrawn in August, and I'm not exactly sure why. But it was withdrawn. However, her attorney, Anthony Cotton, said that Morgan continues to make substantial progress in treatment and should be ready for release next year as we expect. So in the next couple months, as we enter, you know, 2024, where she stands with that is still to be determined. But

currently, she is still in that mental health institute serving her 40 years. As far as Peyton, Peyton spent months, obviously, recovering from her physical wounds. And of course, it's going to be a lifetime of trauma and dealing with that. And in the first few months, she actually said that she slept in her mom's bed after the attack and after she was released from the hospital just because she was so frightened. But even though she worked out of that, this is obviously 10 years later now. She still tends to sleep with weapons under her bed just in case anything was to happen. and when asked if she could say anything to Morgan directly in this 2020 interview,

the interviewer was kind of like, if Morgan was here right now, what would you say to her? And she responded, just because of what she did, I have the life I have now. I really, really like it and I have a plan. I didn't have a plan when I was 12 and now I do because of everything that I went through. I wouldn't think that someone who went through what I did would ever say that. But that's truly how I feel. Without this whole situation, I wouldn't be who I am. And Payton actually went on to pursue a career in the medical field in medicine, likely because of what happened to her when she was 12 years old.

Sure. And understandably, she prefers to keep a low profile. She doesn't really want to be defined by what happened to her on one day of her life that was out of her control. And she has come to accept her scars, both physical and emotional. And through all of this, she has taught her family the meaning of strength and resilience. And that is the story of the slender man stabbings and where everyone is at today. People are incredibly resilient. Just to hear you say that she said that, like, this has been my life and it's because this

happened. And I have found something about my life that I really love. And I really enjoy the person I am. And unfortunately, to get here, I had to go through this. I think that takes so much growing and forgiveness and working through a lot. So because we've talked a lot in this episode about the girls who committed this crime, but Peyton at the end of the day was the one who had the most effect from it, obviously. And she had to live with the real consequences while you could argue that

these other girls are trying to get off easy, whether they do have a mental illness, which it does sound like they probably had some sort of something happening, but kind of potentially being let back out into the world after doing that. And she's now going to have to deal with that. And she deals with the daily thing because of this. I mean, you can't forget her and all of this. She's the person who has to live with this forever. I mean, they all do. The other two can. They all do in one way, but Peyton is the victim. And I think a lot of the time. Or the survivor. Or the survivor. That's right. I like that way. And it's just, it's hard because even through this research and how I presented it, I know I focused a lot on Anisa and Morgan, but most of the information is about

them because they committed the crime. And it's so interesting. Yeah. And there's just so many different, you know, aspects of it that make this crime really intriguing. And I'm sure it's studied a lot. And I think that's why, I mean, obviously, the slender man aspect of it really was clickbaity and grabbed a lot of people's attention. But I would be interested to know if this is one of those cases that is studied a lot in psychology and different criminal justice courses and things like that. because there is so much to it. But yeah, that's the story. And I hope Peyton is just living her best life out there.

And I just, yeah, that's all. Me too. Well, thank you for sharing that with us, starting the year off with a very interesting true crime episode. And I think it gives a lot of people to think about. I mean, like you said, I wonder if people are studying it because it's just so unusual and an interesting and very devastating case. And violent.

I mean, it's no joke. It's not a joke. And I've obviously shied away from consuming and absorbing a lot of true crime stuff that I know, like, you have as well. But I remember watching, I forget what series it was, but it was essentially on child killers. And this question a lot came up. I mean, there was one kid that literally beat his neighbor to death with a baseball bat and then hid her under his bed when he was like 10. God, that's horrific. It's like, it's so fascinating.

because, you know, he, there's all this footage of him in jail as an adult now, like in his 40s, 30s and 40s. And he's like, I, you know, I was a kid. I didn't know what I was doing. I regret it now. And seeing him, footage of him, you know, decades later, you feel bad because he's a different person now than anyone was when he was a kid. So should we punish someone for the rest of their life or something they did when their brain wasn't developed? I don't know. Because at face value, that's fucking brutal.

and the person who lost their life at the hands of an eight-year-old, like their family, I would sure should think, if it was me, I'm not going to say something for somebody else. But if it was for me, I would have a really difficult time being like, I don't care if they were, you know, I would be like they were a kid. Yeah, but they still killed someone. And I'm who lost their life forever. Right. Just because they grew up, doesn't, the other person never got a chance to get old. Exactly. So because of this person. Oh, it's so complicated. I want to stop talking about it. I'm done. All right, we are done. We will see you next week, everyone. Enjoy the view. But watch you're back. Bye, everyone. Bye. Thank you so much for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale or story suggestion,

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