National Park After Dark - The Strange Disappearance of Glen and Bessie Hyde: Grand Canyon National Park

Episode Date: June 21, 2021

Bring your life preserves, lots of food and water, and a camera! We are taking you down an epic trip in the Grand Canyon down the Colorado River in a sweep scow boat. When newlywed couple Glen and Bessie Hyde set out to the Grand Canyon to set records, they had high hopes, but just after a month on their journey - they disappear. Their disappearance is anything but normal and it sparks lots of rumors and theories of what could have happened to them.For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A poem by Bessie Hyde Oh mama dear, please come. My dolly must be drowned. When I put her on the creek, she sunk without a sound. We Betty's eyes filled with tears. Where could poor Dolly be? Perhaps she turned into a mermaid and drifted out to sea. Welcome to National Park After Dark.

Hey everybody. to National Park After Dark. My name's Cassie. And I'm Danielle. Thanks for coming back for another week and another story. We're going to take it, I think, a totally different direction this week. Yeah, we are. Okay. So I did want to say before we get started that thank you to everyone who wrote in in regards to last week's episode. The response was overwhelmingly positive. we were just very grateful to hear from listeners and how important the episode was to them. But I wanted to tell you something. So my mom texted me today and she's like, did you get my email?

And I was like, no. First of all, that's ominous. Why would you say, did you get my email? Like, am I in trouble? I'm 30 years old and I live across the country. Am I in trouble? So she's like, okay, well, just pop over and read it when you. you have a second. I just did right before we started the episode, and she did say,

Hi, Belle, I listened late last night, one of your best episodes yet. Love the spotlight on Native peoples. Grandpa would be so proud of you. Interesting side note, your second cousin Amy was recently appointed as the curator for the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian. We should visit in the future. What? That's so cool. Like, I just think that's so crazy. I'm like, she's my cousin. So just what an accomplishment and what a cool area of study and very poignant. Yeah. And what a cool time to find out right after you just did that episode. Yeah. That being said, I'm ready to go to the Southwest, right? That's where we're going. Yeah. Yeah, that's where we're going. We are going to the Southwest today.

And this will be our very last episode that I am in my 20s for. Oh my God, yes. So everybody wish Cassie. Well, it'll be one day because her birthday is Sunday. So when you hear this episode on Monday, it will be my past me in my 20s and I will now be in my 30s. It's the best. I love being 30. Do you? Yeah, I did. I heard 30 is your 30s or your 20s, but with money. So I don't know where that money comes. from, but I can't wait for Sunday when it all gets deposited into my bank. It's just like in your 20s, you're kind of like, your early 20s, you're still a mess.

Your mid-20s, you're trying to figure it out still. Your late 20s are, I don't know. I just feel like I've only been 30 for six months. So I can't even. It's like I'm this old wise woman. In this old, wise age of being in my 30s. I'm like, oh, yes, my 20s. I remember them fondly.

Yeah, I don't know. I just like it. I think it's. there's good things coming, I feel. And I think people take you a little more seriously when you say you're in your 30s. That's true. I'm looking forward to being old and wise in four days. Well, happy early slash belated birthday, Cassie.

Thank you. So in light of that, let's just go into our episode. We are going to be talking about the mysterious disappearance of Bessie and Glenn Hyde, who are last seen in the Grand Canyon National. Park. And before we get into this story, as always, we're going to talk a little bit about the park. Grand Canyon National Park is located in northwestern Arizona, and it was established as a park on February 26, 1919. So it celebrated its 100th anniversary in 2019, and it is 102 today. The Grand Canyon National Park is actually the second most visited park in the whole country next to the Great Smoky Mountains,

which we learned in our Great Smoky Mountains episode. The park covers 1,217,262 acres. And a huge feature of this park is the Colorado River, which runs through the bottom of the canyon and is also where our story takes place today. Even though it's not the largest canyon in the world, people still travel to it from all over. And it's because of how wide and vast it is,

and also the colors of the walls. Geologically speaking, the rocks in the Grand Canyon hold a lot of history. It is actually very highly debated on how old the canyon is. There's some scientists that say it's about 5 to 6 million years old, while others say it's about 70 million. How? So I don't really know from the research that I did and just looking up different articles, it looks like a big debate in that is because of the erosion

that occurs inside the park. It makes it hard for geologists to figure out the exact age and they're in the midst of doing different studies to try and figure it out, but it's a process. Kind of going back into our previous episode in the Grand Canyon, there is archaeological evidence that confirms that indigenous peoples have lived in the Grand Canyon for over 10,000 years. And they continue to inhabit this area today. But throughout that time, they would traverse the Colorado River as they needed to. So they would build their own canoes, their own hand-carved canoes, and they would raft down the Colorado River, which has over 200 whitewater rapids.

And today, whitewater rafting is actually relatively new in the Grand Canyon. and way back when in 1540, Captain Garcia Lopez de Carninas and his soldiers were the first known non-natives to explore the canyon and they were accompanied by natives. In 1869, Major John Wesley Powell was part of the very first mission to scientifically explore the canyon, where he whitewater rafted through the canyon with the intentions to map it all out. and by the mid-20th century, there had been only about 100 documented people who had navigated their way through the whole Colorado River in the Grand Canyon. In the second half of the 20th century, however, this all changed, and people started to become a lot more brave and wanted to explore the canyon. Today, there are many different whitewater rafting tours that you can take, and this idea was originally founded by Georgie White-Claarck, and she died in 1992. She was the first woman to run the Grand Canyon as a commercial enterprise, and she actually introduced several innovations and different adjustments to the way that guides ran the

Colorado River that are still used in today's guiding adventures. So in 2001, the Mile 24 Rapid was renamed in her honor. And in the Grand Canyon, they actually do this cool tour that you can do. It is a 16-day tour down the Grand Canyon and you go in a whitewater rafting group and they take you down for 16 days and you camp and live on this raft pretty much. I mean, you camp on shore, but I haven't done it myself, but I have a few friends who have and they highly recommend it. So it's certainly on the to-do list to go do that. But in case anyone was interested in doing that, I felt like I should let you know if you didn't know already that that was an option to do there. When I think of recreational activities in the Grand Canyon, that's what my mind goes to, first and foremost, is rafting the river.

Yeah, I mean, it's such a huge part of the Grand Canyon. So in the very early days of river running around the year 1928, only 45 people had ever managed to fully traverse the entire length of the Grand Canyon by boat. This group of people was solely made up by men. and they all used traditional and modified rowboats. Now in 1928, a newly married couple, Glenn and Bessie Hyde, wanted to make their own mark on the Grand Canyon's history, and they wanted to change it. And they were going to do it by taking a different type of boat

that had never been used before. They were going to take a sweep scow, which is a long wooden flat-bottom boat that was originally designed to transfer mining equipment and lumber down river. This trip was also to be especially remarkable because Bessie Hyde would be the very first woman to run the Colorado River. Glenn Hyde was also on a mission to run the river faster than anyone had ever done before. This was supposed to be an epic adventure, breaking all sorts of norms. But it turned into the most mysterious disappearance the Grand Canyon has ever known.

Glenn Hyde was a potato farmer in Twin Falls, Idaho, and he was born on December 9, 1898. Ooh. Sagittarius. You know what's really funny is I actually looked up their zodiac signs, because I always like to do that for couples. that I wanted to get like a idea of what their relationship was. I will say, based on personal experience, because my birthday is one day later, December 10th. Fire sign.

Quick to light, fast to burn. Hempter is short, but as far as personal experience, as Sagittarius, outgoing, but can also be reserved, gets along really well with Aries. Wait, what's her side? She's a Capricorn. Okay. Okay.

So what was the consensus? I'll just say, not great. Okay, so not good. Okay, go on. Glenn started his life on the river as a kid, taking family canoeing trips in Prince Rupert, British Columbia.

In 1919, he went on his very first Grand Expedition with a friend, and it was there that they spent six months on Peace River in Canada, canoeing, fishing, and hunting. And over the years, he became an avid and very experienced boatsman. Three years later, Glenn was in Moscow, Idaho, where he met a boatman by the name of Harry Gulick, and it was here that he first heard about the giant wooden boat, a sweep scout. And Harry's stories inspired him to make his own scow, and he would take it to the Salmon River all the way. to the Pacific Ocean. Now this river goes through central Idaho, Oregon, and then Washington.

He completed this trip with his sister in 1926. Bessie Hyde was born on December 29, 1905 in West Virginia. And she was very interested in theater growing up and in high school she played Juliet in the play Romeo and Juliet. She graduated in 1924 and she moved to California and that was where she enrolled in the School of Fine Arts in San Francisco. and it was there where she started to study to become a writer. She also, while in school, wrote an unpublished volume of poems titled The Wandering Leaves, and if you look it up online, you can actually find that book and read her whole poems, if you'd like. And in February of 1927, she met Glenn Hyde. They were on a passenger boat heading to Los Angeles, and instantly, they had a huge connection.

And they actually married just over one year. year later on April 12th, 1928 in Twin Falls, Idaho. And then Bessie moved out to Idaho to be with Glenn on his potato farm. After this, the couple began planning their honeymoon trip, and they decided they wanted their honeymoon to be a boating trip down the Green River in Utah, and then running down to the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon. And Glenn was also an expert builder, and he decided he would build a wooden scow specifically for this trip. While this was a honeymoon, as we said earlier, Glenn also had bigger plans. He was set on setting a new record for the time run on the Colorado River. He believed that the scow would be the best boat to get him there the fastest. Now before this

trip began, they decided to visit a friend in Utah, who was a very experienced river rafter. And Glenn showed him his boat, and his friend told them that this boat was just not safe enough for the trip that they were planning, especially for all the whitewater rapids that they would be facing. And also, when he saw their gear, he noticed that neither of them had packed a life jacket. He offered Glenn his own life jackets for the two of them, but Glenn refused. The two finally headed off on their trip on October 20th, 1928. It took them 26 days on the river before they arrived in the Grand Canyon on Bright Angel Creek. And it was here that they decided to hike up the South Rim Trail to get more supplies for their trip. And at the top of South Rim Trail, they approached what today is known as the studio,

which is a national historic landmark that is known as the very first commercial photography studio in the Grand Canyon. and this was where they had public slide shows and films. When they reached the studio, they met a man by the name of Emery Colb, which was one of the two brothers who lived in the studio, which also doubled as their home. Emery showed them around the South Rim, and he actually offered them both life jackets for their trip when he noticed that they didn't have any.

And again, Glenn refused, and he actually even laughed at the idea. And he told Emery that him and Bessie, could swim anything and they did not need life preserves. Emory also noticed that Bessie seemed particularly tired of their adventure at this point and she was ready to be done. But he also noticed that Glenn was being very persistent and they continued down the trail the following day, but not before Emory could get a photo of the two of them.

The couple's plan was to finish running the Colorado River and then they would come back for this photo. They also had plans to be in California by December 6th to visit Glenn's father. As they prepared to walk down the trail back to the river and their boat, Emery's daughter walked by them and she was very nicely dressed. And Bessie very eerily stated, I wonder if I shall ever wear pretty shoes again. I never heard foreshadowing. Like I just heard right now. It kind of gave me the chills a little bit. because like what is that supposed to mean? I know. It's almost like she knew something was about to happen.

So while they were at the studio, a friend of Emory's heard of their trip and he decided that he wanted to come with them. His name was Adolf G. Sutro and he was another photographer and he wanted to come and take a couple photos of him on his own boat just for a short distance and then he would let them go off on their own. So he did do that and he hung out with them for a couple days, took a few pictures of them, and Adolf G. Sutro was the very last person who ever saw Glenn and Bessie Hyde alive. By early December, when there had been no word from Bessie and Glenn, Emery actually became worried because he had been waiting for them to return to get the photos that he had taken of them. So he went on to initiate a search of the area, and that included a small

plane that would fly over the gorge of the Colorado River. So after about two weeks of this search on December 20th, 1928, while the pilot was flying, he saw Hyde Scout boat caught in some rocks along the river. The initial thought here was that the couple was most likely on shore somewhere waiting to be found. When the rescue team arrived to the boat, they found that everything was completely intact. There was no sign at all of a wreck or a crash of the boat. They found their food supplies, clean clothes, Bessie's Journal, and also a completely intact camera that they had bought. The last photo taken on the camera was on November 27th, and the very last journal entry in Bessie's diary was on November 30th, written near Diamond Creek, and that's where the boat was found. Her last entry read,

Ran 16 Rapids Today, and then mentioned setting up camp around mile 232 on the river. So it's like they just had left it there. Yeah, exactly. There was no sign that the boat had capsized. Everything was completely dry on the boat. All their gear was fine. There was just no indication of a reason of why they wouldn't still be with their boat. The rescue team briefly searched around the surrounding areas, and they found no trace of them at all.

So Glenn's father was really worried at this point, and he hired 70 indigenous peoples to search for the couple around. around the area where the boat had been found, and also around the area where the last photos had been taken. He even had the help of Emory Kolb and his brother Ellsworth Kalb in the search efforts, but there wasn't a single trace of them anywhere. There was no camp set up, there was no remnants of anything, or where they could have been. If the couple had died in the rapids, then why was their boat found upright and fully intact? The couple had up and disappeared without a trace. Rumors and talk started flying around about what could have happened and people were speculating.

Some people believe that they could have drowned, while others believed that there was a much darker story behind their disappearance. Rumors came that Glenn was actually a very abusive husband, and when Bessie didn't want to continue the trip, he became enraged and he murdered her, and then he disappeared to avoid getting punished himself. Then an opposite rumor flew, and that was that Bessie murdered her husband because he was abusive, and then she ran off to start a new life. Ooh, the plot thickens.

But nobody's been, they haven't been found. No, they haven't been found, and there's just no trace of them anywhere at this point. So this is just people talking and speculating on what they think might have happened. Like you said, it's rumors, you know, people putting together a story. So years went by, and no one knew what happened to Glenn and Bessie Hyde. And as river rafting became more popular in the following years, their story became a very popular campfire story for river runners during their trips. In December of 1971 during a commercial rafting trip,

they were camped along the shore near where the couple's boat was found. The river guide told his group the story. At the end of the story, a woman stood up in the group, and she announced that she was Bessie Hyde and explained exactly how she killed her husband. She told a group of rafters that her and Glenn had gotten into a fight on the river. He wanted to continue the trip, but she did not, and for that he beat her. After he had finished, she got up and found a knife and she stabbed him to death. She then told everyone in the group that she disposed of his remains.

What made this story especially believable for the people that she was telling was that this woman was right about the same age as Bessie would have been in 1971. I'm just envisioning, imagine you're on a boat trip, vacation, you're going around having this campfire story, and then all of a sudden this woman's like, I'm Bessie had it. And she starts, like, and I just imagine sitting there and like looking up and like my mouth being open like, what is. going on. You murdered your husband. And like you're just saying this now. Like what? Or being the guy person telling it. And being like, please sit down. My, my story's done. But man, take a seat. This is not the time. We're the middle of nowhere. We're right where they disappeared. You're freaking everyone out. Please sit down. And it's in the 70s. You have no cell phones.

you can't just be like, we have a problem, and then you have to be with this. Oh, my God. Yeah. Okay, continue. I need to know what happens. So a lot of questions came from this. People were like, what do you mean? You're Bessie Hyde.

Please tell us more. How? What have you been doing all these years? And with all these questions, she eventually recanted and she admitted that she was not Bessie Hyde. Oh, you just got me. I really thought that was going somewhere. I really, truly did. I thought she was going to be like, I killed him and I can show you where his body is,

and then like walked him over and like picked up his skull from like the sand or something. I don't know. I just had it all played out. Sorry. That is not what happened, but then something very suspicious did happen. Something happened that made the police believe that they finally found a break in this missing case. something that they had been looking for all along. In 1976, on Emery Colb's property,

there were human remains of a male fitting the same size description as Glenn found. Emery Colb had been one of the last people to see the couple, and when the skeletal remains were found in his garage by Emery's grandson, they had a huge suspicion that this was Glenn Hyde. And with the skeleton, there were remnants of clothing and a shoe. And notably, there was a bullet hole in his skull. There was a story that came out in Maine of a guy going through his grandfather's estate because he had passed away

and he was going through his house and his property and he found skeletal remains in his shed. That's terrifying. Yeah, his grandfather had killed someone. No one knew about it and had stashed the body in his shed and his grandson or his grandson found it. but like it's kind of like the same thing, you know? Yeah, it's the exact same thing that happened in this story. Okay, but so how did the boat get there then? Let me tell the story.

Okay, sorry. I'm just really into this. So theories obviously began to surface and what people thought was that Emory had killed Glenn in order to be with Bessie. But that raised the question of where was Bessie then? So they brought in a forensic anthropologist named Dr. Walter Berkby, and he examined the skeleton. And he determined that the remains belonged to a male between 20 and 23 years old. He was six feet tall with light brown hair. He also discovered that the bullet that was embedded in his skull came from a revolver manufactured in 1902.

Based on the production date of the gun and the fragments of the clothing, he estimated that the death to have occurred sometime in the 19. 20s, which fit the timeline of Glenn disappearing. Dr. Burby then compared a photograph of Glenn to the shape of the skull. He determined there were several differences. The eye orbits were angled differently, and Glenn had thinner cheeks. His chin was also shaped differently. He determined that there was no way that this could be Glenn Hyde.

In late 2018, with a series of photographs that had been doing, donated to the Grand Canyon Museum collection in an effort to help solve cold cases, led to the identification of the skeletal remains. The remains belonged to a suicide victim that was found in the park in 1933. How did you get in Emory's? No idea. So I tried to research that in the articles that I found didn't even bring it up after. So I have no idea why or how skeletal remains got into his garage.

That is wild. Yeah. So he just has a skeleton in his garage. Of someone who's completed suicide in the park in the 30s and now all of a sudden it's on his property. Like what did he do just find him and put him in the backseat of the car and bring him to his house? No. And people think I'm weird. People think I'm weird.

Okay. So yeah, what is, where is Bessie? Yeah, so still a question. Now with all this information, that the case goes back to being completely cold. We have no idea what happened to Glenn or Bessie at this point. However, there's still a theory that is debated up to this day. Earlier I mentioned a woman by the name of Georgie White Clark. She was the very first woman to ever run the Grand Canyon as a part of a commercial enterprise.

And I talked about her innovations in the whitewater rafting world were still used in the Grand Canyon to this day. So Georgie White Clark was born in 1911 and she died in 1992. And when she died, some of her close friends went to her house to go through her belongings. And Georgie was a very private person. and her friends had known her for decades and not once had they ever been invited into her home. So while they're looking through her belongings, they find her birth certificate. And the certificate shows that her actual name was Bessie DeRoss and not Georgie that she had been known by her whole life. Tell me that's her maiden name. Tell me that's Bessie's maiden name.

It is not. God damn. Highs and lows. Highs and lows. Okay. Bessie's made a name is Haley. But while looking more into her things, they opened her lingerie drawer. And inside that, they found a pistol. And the pistol that they found resembled the same pistol that can be seen in photos of Bessie and Glenn. But what really drove this curiosity of who Georgie White Clark might actually be was what was beside the pistol. sitting next to the pistol inside the drawer was a wedding certificate.

And this wedding certificate was that of Glenn and Bessie Hyde. No. No. Mm-hmm. Georgie, you sly, sly fox. It's her. It's got to be her. Such a coincidence that her real name is Bessie,

she's a super private person and I mean she's around the same age as Bessie Hyde would have been she's off by a couple of years but if you're off trying to change your identity then maybe you wouldn't go exactly the same age but also back in the day it was so easy to falsify records and if she's trying to get away with having a different identity if it was me I wouldn't make everything exact. I wouldn't say, you know, born December 10th, 1990. You know, I would skew it a little bit, try and throw people off a little bit. Yeah, I mean, you don't want anything to resemble your past life. Wow. So there are some people that speculate that it could not be Bessie Hyde. And they had a couple of reasons for that. And they said that they didn't believe that she looked enough like her. She also was a little bit tall. taller than Bessie Hyde. And when looking more into Georgie White Clark, she seemed to have a whole

history of her life. She had past wedding certificates. She had history as a kid. She had this whole history of her whole life. As Georgie. Yeah, as Georgie. Okay, because I was going to ask, well, does she have friends and family that I've known her since childhood or like what? What's going on? Well, it's interesting because when she died, it was. her friends that went through her things. It wasn't family members who came and she was divorced twice. So she went by the name Georgie White Clark and White and Clark were actually the last names of her ex-husbands. Oh, okay. And you know, there were people who said that she doesn't look enough like her. I personally, when I was looking through the photos, I kind of thought they did look similar, especially in their younger days.

I mean, as Georgie White Clark gets older, she starts dying her hair blonde or maybe her hair just got grayer. I'm not sure. But in her younger years, she had brown hair just like Bessie Hyde. But she was taller than Bessie Hyde. So there's obviously a little bit of discrepancy there in their physical appearance. But even if she's not Bessie Hyde, it still raises the question of why did she have their wedding certificate? Right. What, like, what is up with that?

She has no connection to them, right? Other than the fact that she is Bessie Hyde, allegedly. Allegedly. Yeah, I mean, not that we know of that she has any connection to them at all. So why would she have the wedding certificate? No idea. But at the end of the day, the strange disappearance of Glenn and Bessie Hyde remains unsolved. And we still don't have answers to what.

what had happened. And with Georgie White Clark, even though there's all these weird coincidences, a lot of people say that there's no way that she could have been Bessie Hyde and that this isn't the answer and it wasn't her. So this case is still unsolved. Right. So it's like it could go either way. There's no strong case for either side. Yeah. And there was no like deathbed confession or Nothing. There's nothing. This might just be a case that we never get any answers to and we never know what happened to the couple. Well, unless something is not like, because of course, because the question remains what happened to Glenn. Obviously the question remains what happened to Bessie too, but we obviously have at least some sort of something to maybe go off of like a theory. Yeah. And I mean, no remains have ever been found. So there's no. answers there either. I mean, I kind of like the story of if and only if George E White Clark

was actually Bessie Hyde that if the rumors were true and Glenn Hyde was a very abusive husband, if she somehow escaped that relationship on this trip and she went off to live this monumental life where she has her own rapid named after her. She was the first woman in history to run the Grand Canyon and she made all these innovations and she just had this amazing life after escaping an abusive relationship. I kind of like the thought of that story, not that we have enough evidence to confirm that that's true, but kind of a cool way that story would have ended. It's at least nice one silver lining of this is somebody's family got closure, that that man that completed suicide, that they found his remains. Like,

did they identify, because they identified him, right? Yeah, they were able to identify him. Yeah. So, at least that was, you know, kind of the family got tiny bit of closure because I'm sure they had no idea what happened to him either. Yeah. So, oh, my God, what a wild story. And I'm sure one that continued, I mean, that just made it juicier. You know, forget, I'm already over when that girl pretended to be Bessie at the campfire. Yeah, this is way better, way juicier. Way juicier, especially because she had their marriage certificate. I can't get over that.

Like, why would you have that in like a gun? It's just regardless of if she actually was Bessie, something is still odd about that, like in and of itself. There's a story there, and it's one that we might just not ever know. And that makes this whole strange disappearance, even more mysterious. And that's it? Oh, my God.

Wow, that was a really intense one. Yeah, I read it, and I just thought that this would be a cool story to tell, because this really feels like one of those disappearances, that there's some secrets here, and we might just not ever know. Wow, that was really good. And the Grand Canyon's a place that, unfortunately, claims a lot of lives. So thank you again for sharing that. That was great.

I ended my night on a high note. Now I'm not going to be able to sleep because I'm going to be going down the rabbit hole of comparing pictures and all that. I can't wait until you post a picture of that on Monday. You're kidding me? Well, I think that's it for this week. Yeah, that's all I have for this week's episode. And one last thing before we end it is Danielle told a story on our Patreon about a plane crash that happened. and she talks about the survivor stories and some ghost stories in it.

So if you're interested in hearing that episode, it's only available on Patreon. You can go onto our Instagram National Park After Dark and click the link to our Patreon there. Or you can go on to our website, M-PADPodcast.com, and you can find our Patreon on there as well. Yeah. And actually, just a final thing for this episode is there is a book that is written by Brad Dimmick. It's called Sunk Without a Sound. And it is based on the whole disappearance of Glenn and Bessie Hyde. And he dives deep into the research behind it, what happened. He talks to witnesses from who saw them or knew them. He also whitewater rafts to the area where their boat disappeared and he

comes up with all these theories and he debunks a lot of theories that happen. So if that's something that you're interested in. Add a link to our website on MPADpodcast.com. So you can find that link to the book if you go to that website if you're interested in reading it. Perfect. Well, I'm looking forward to our weekend coming up your birthday. I know you're going on a mini trip. My family's coming out. We're doing all the Washington National Parks. So we have a lot to look forward to this weekend and into next week. So I hope you enjoy this episode and get ready for one that I have a super special one planned that I don't want to give too much away about. But for visiting one of my favorite states and talking about one of my favorite things. So we'll see you then. In the meantime,

enjoy the view. But watch your back. Bye everyone. A poem by Bessie Hyde. Oh, Mama dear, please come. My dolly must be drowned. When I put her on the creek, she sunk without a sound. We Betty's eyes filled with tears. Where could poor Dolly be? Perhaps she turned into a mermaid and drifted out to sea. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you may not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressives save over $900 on average. Pop over to Progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit Progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back.

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