National Park After Dark - Til’ Death Do Us Part: Glacier National Park

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

When Jordan and Cody met each other they quickly fell in love and tied the knot. But when Cody disappeared only eight days after their wedding, people began to suspect his new wife may have been invol...ved.For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Prose: Use our link for a free in-depth hair consultation and 50% off your first subscription order.BetterHelp: National Park After Dark is sponsored by BetterHelp. Get 10% off.IQBAR: Text PARK to 64000 to get 20% off all IQBAR products and free shipping.Sierra Club: Book your 2025 trip today at sierraclub.org/outings, and use code NPAD to get $100 off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Monday AI agents took over my work. And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Monday.com. So they see the full picture, my work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff,
Starting point is 00:00:21 knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress.
Starting point is 00:00:45 Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. If you're romantic, you might say that the driving force behind every action, decision, and pursuit in life ultimately is because of love. Many of us dream of the day we will be surrounded by those we cherish, professing our undying love, and committing to forever with our soulmate.
Starting point is 00:01:18 We dream of the life we will live together, the adventures, growing a family, having a partner by your side in sickness and in health. Unfortunately, the reality is not every relationship has its happy ending. Some will discover only after marriage that maybe this isn't the person you want by your side until the end. While grappling with the situation, most will have to one day make the difficult decision to end the relationship. But what happens when one partner sees till death do us part as the only way out of a marriage? Welcome. to National Park after dark. Okay.
Starting point is 00:02:21 We got a lover's quarrel. Do we not? We sure do. This is a, I don't know if we've ever covered a story of a woman murdering someone, have we? Well, you just gave it away because I don't know. Well, that's what we're talking about today. But have we on the podcast talked about a woman killer? Not a woman killer, a woman who kills someone.
Starting point is 00:02:42 You have in a bonus episode with the poisoners and such. That's true. I did do that one. I'm not sure. Our catalog is so long now. Yeah. I feel like my answer is no, but I could be wrong. And that's just because it's statistics. Yeah. It's, you know, well, that's part of what drew me to this case to want to research it and cover it because it is such a rare thing where women kill men. And it's not unheard of, of course. There's lots of cases. I remember I used to binge watch that show snapped where there was a lot of. women who killed their husbands. Weren't they all women? Yeah, I believe so. In that series? Yeah. So, I mean, it definitely happens. It's just less heard of. And then when you narrow it down to the niche of National Parks, it's even a smaller pool of cases. So this one, I was just like, I had heard of this case. I actually remember it. It's 12 years ago now, because it was in 2013. But I remember it on national news channels. And I remember it then going to the courthouse and following all of what was unfolding and I remember seeing it on the news and it just kind of came back on my radar and I thought,
Starting point is 00:03:51 you know, I don't know the nitty gritties of this case and I want to figure it out. So I went through a lot of the court documents that are public and figured out exactly, well, allegedly what had happened and what is written down in court documents and articles and there's a lot of footage that you can find on YouTube and places like that of the couple themselves. So it was just a really interesting case and that's what I decided to cover today. Cool. Well, before we get on with it, I guess, just kind of like talking in relation to your intro, would you consider yourself a romantic? Um, I think the answer's no if you have to think about it like that. Well, it's hard because I don't think of myself as like mushy. You're not a mushy person. I'm not mushy and I do like I really value love
Starting point is 00:04:42 and I think that it's really important and I would say even when I was younger, you could call me a little boy crazy. But I think I really value my freedom and I value myself, I guess, more than anything. I think why I love Al so much is because he is someone who lets me do whatever I want and there's no issues with it at all. But I think at the end of the day I value my own happiness beforehand. So I do love love and I love being in love and I, but I don't know if I would be like my end all be all is to be in a relationship, like to have a love. I think that I would be like a person that would be okay without it if I didn't have it, but I'm really happy that I do if that makes sense. Yeah, totally. And I know the answer to this
Starting point is 00:05:36 question, but you're getting married soon. I know. That was kind of put you on. on the hot seat. You're like, actually, no, I don't care about it at all. No, I, I am very happy to get married. I'm very excited. I just, I wouldn't, outside of this relationship, I wouldn't have considered myself like a romantic, I guess. Yeah. And I know the answer to this question, but I'll ask you anyway. Do you consider yourself a romantic? What is your answer? Yes. I think that you are definitely a romantic. Yeah. Yeah. Which is funny because, like, I think I flip-flopped. Like earlier on in life, I could give a crap. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:06:15 About like I, I too. I too was boy crazy. But not in any sort of deep or meaningful way. Yes. And I don't know if you can be, I don't know how deep and meaningful you can be at like 18 or 19 years old. You know, like there's. Fair. You know.
Starting point is 00:06:32 So I think we should cut ourselves some slack with that. But yeah, later on in life, it just definitely elevated its position. Like to me, everything is about love. Yeah. And not even romantic-wise, just in general. And so, yeah, I prioritize romantic love a lot. Yeah. I do think that that love in relationships is very important in friendships and surrounding yourself with the people that you love with your family, your friends, and romantic relationships. I just, I wouldn't. You could take them or leave them. So a good thing you have Al. Yeah. Yeah. I love Al very much. I don't want to say that. I don't. But, um, We all know you do. I don't.
Starting point is 00:07:12 I'm not trying to like, yeah. Okay. Anyway, let's talk about someone who didn't love love. And I could make my way through life. We don't doubt you. We don't doubt you with that. Thank you. You can be both.
Starting point is 00:07:26 You can be both. Okay. Well, on that note, we could go into the story. Yeah, let's. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice.
Starting point is 00:07:53 Off campus, L, every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Saturday, June 29th, 2013 was the most perfect day for Cody Johnson and Jordan Graham. After getting engaged the December prior and spending the past six months carefully planning the intricate details of their wedding, they were finally tying the knot surrounded by their friends and their family. If Cody had been told when he first met Jordan at a Halloween party that he would one day marry this woman, he would have been thrilled. Almost immediately after they were introduced, sparks flew between the couple and Cody fell madly in love with her, telling his friends that if he got to wake up every day under the same roof as the woman.
Starting point is 00:08:48 woman he loved that he would be a happy man. Jordan was equally as excited, and when they were engaged, she told her loved ones that it was the happiest she had been in a very long time. They chose Woodland Park in Calispell, Montana, as their wedding venue, as it was in the town that they lived in together. Surrounded by carefully maintained gardens, they had a small intimate ceremony that offered a backdrop of the mission and Salish mountain ranges. As Jordan walked down the aisle to her husband to be, she looked over to her grandmother to see her with tears full of joy, and her eyes welled up with her. The couple exchanged their bows, interlaced with their love of God and the exciting life that they planned to build together, before they kissed, solidifying and
Starting point is 00:09:32 promising, till death do they part. Their loved ones cheered, and later at the reception, Jordan's maid of honor, Kimberly Martinez, toasted their union, saying, the best thing possible happened and I'm so happy for the two of you. Cody later told his mom that this was the best day of his life and he couldn't wait to start a family and to make her a grandmother. That night, the newlywed stayed in a beautiful lakefront hotel in Big Fork, Montana, about 30 minutes away, where Cody had one of Jordan's bridesmaids cover their room and flowers prior to their arrival, and all in all, it was a perfect day for the couple. Now, that's a romantic gesture, I feel like. That's a, that's a sign of a romantic to me to have your room pre-set with just flower petals everywhere. I think that that's... I like
Starting point is 00:10:22 romantic gestures. Well, it's not, I feel like not even just that gesture, which is nice, but all of the things that he was saying, like that is a true romantic of like this is the, you know, a highlight of his life. And this is just like what he envisioned for his life. And just telling people how much he loved. I don't know. I just feel like nowadays it's more rare to get that from some from a guy. Yeah. Being so open about sharing his feelings. I feel like a lot, I feel like a lot of men do feel this way and want this for themselves. But for one reason or another aren't very vocal about sharing that with others. And so I think it's the romantic gesture. for me in this is being so transparent about that. So excited about his marriage and his wedding.
Starting point is 00:11:21 And really, it sounds like he, when I was reading the details, it sounds like he had a lot in planning the wedding. And it seems like he was very much involved in this and excited about it. Yeah, because I'm not trying to make little of that gesture, but like anyone can throw rose petals somewhere. Sure, but it's the thought that counts, you know. It is. And to have, like, and to think to.
Starting point is 00:11:43 to talk to one of the bridesmaids and be like, can you please go do this while we're out here? Yeah, that would be great. And it just seems like, I take it back. He's involving her friends in the planning. You know, it's just like it's a nice gesture. It's thoughtful. It's not like a huge thing, but I just think it's thoughtful. The Monday following their wedding, they went back to their normal lives.
Starting point is 00:12:03 Cody returned to work at Nomad Global Communication Services, a company that builds connected mobile operation centers, which I didn't really know what that was, so I googled it. And it's for things like military. It's like trailers for military deployments, public safety vehicles and defense emergency operation vehicles. So like when you get pulled over by the police officer and they can pull up all of your information, it sounds like he worked at a company that created vehicles and transportation that had the capabilities to process data.
Starting point is 00:12:37 Okay. That's what it was. And Jordan returned to her job that she had as a babysitter, which from all of counts was something that she deeply enjoyed and that she really just had away with children. Children really loved her and she really loved them. But what seemed like the beginning of a loving marriage soon changed as Jordan began having second thoughts. A little over 24 hours after Jordan said, I do. She texted her best friend and made of honor Kimberly with her doubts. 24 hours. 24 hours is the following night. She started sending these text messages. Okay.
Starting point is 00:13:11 She was worried that she just made this terrible mistake and she wrote to her totally just had a meltdown. I'm completely second-guessing everything. I don't know if all of this was the right thing to do. So much happened last night. I just don't know. Kimberly, of course, was confused but supportive of her friend, assuring her that second thoughts were normal and that marriage could be overwhelming. The following day, Jordan wrote back again saying she couldn't put herself together and that she hadn't stopped crying since the wedding day. She expressed that she knew she should feel happy, but that she couldn't, and she felt really guilty about it because Cody had been so happy to be married.
Starting point is 00:13:49 That week, while they settled back into their normal lives, returning to work and back into their routines, Jordan continued to text Kimberly about the struggles that she was having. In some moments, she explained that she felt like a loser for not being able to tell Cody sooner about how she felt. In another text thread, she sent to Kimberly, she wrote about her husband, quote, he held me down the other night and was in my face. He gets a temper fast. So it seems like there was something possibly else going on where they were fighting, which was making her and maybe. From what she was saying in text messages, it sounded like maybe she was having these second thoughts because the marriage, they were having problems and fighting and maybe he was a little violent. It's, it's kind of unclear. She didn't go into super detail into her text messages.
Starting point is 00:14:39 On Sunday, July 7th, eight days after they wed, the two attended a morning service at Faith Baptist Church. Cody made no mention of any marital issues. Instead, it was quite the opposite. In a conversation with Jordan's stepfather, he said that he was excited because Jordan had said that she had a surprise for him. He had been so excited that he told two of his close friends as well, Brad and Eddie, about her planning something for him that following evening. On Sunday, it was tradition that members of the Faith Baptist Church would spend dinner time together. So that night, Cody and Jordan met them at a local Dairy Queen a little after 7 p.m. They ate ice cream and chatted with their fellow church members and neighbors. Cody was always the more social of the two of them.
Starting point is 00:15:22 He was charming and loving. He was very engaging in conversation with the community, while Jordan was more reserved and more quiet. The night went well and after about an hour out with everyone, with them both having work in the morning, they bid their farewells and they headed back home for the night. Jordan continued to text Kimberly and told her that she was planning to talk to him that night, but also said, but dead serious, if you don't hear from me, something happened. Sorry, can I just ask really quick? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:15:51 Has there been, because it feels like with what she conveyed through the text about him being violent with her and argumentative and now this, like, if something happens to me. Like, you know, I just feel like is this all happening just after they got married or was there any indication that this was a problem in their relationship prior to their marriage? You know, I couldn't find a lot prior to their marriage, but I will say they were only engaged and in a relationship for, they were engaged for six months before that and before they got engaged after three months of their relationship. So they really haven't. They've been together all in all about nine months at this point. So I'm not exactly, there's not a lot of time between that. And I couldn't find, I specifically couldn't find details of her mentioning this beforehand. It does come up later that it was an issue longer than these text messages reveal,
Starting point is 00:16:52 but I couldn't find in-depth concrete stuff to really back that up. Okay. Just curious because it seems like that's a, I wouldn't, I have never said to somebody. like if you don't hear from me, then something happened to me, suggesting that it was the person that I'm romantically involved with. You know, if that was to happen out of the blue, like, that's really alarming. Yeah. So I don't know. I was just curious.
Starting point is 00:17:18 I agree. I mean, the only time I've ever said something like that is jokingly when I've gone out on a date. Like, hey, if you don't hear from me, he murdered me, you know, when you're out on a first. But not seriously about a person that I knew and loved. like if I don't, if I don't talk to you, like, just know something really bad happened to me. Yeah. It is concerning. And later that night, the distressed text messages to Kimberly continued.
Starting point is 00:17:42 She wrote to her, now I'm freaking out, I don't even know what to do right now. Around 1115, that same night, Jordan called her brother, Michael, telling him that after they left the Dairy Queen, her and Cody had gotten into an argument and Cody had left. She asked him if he would come over to the house so she wasn't alone. He agreed and when he arrived, Jordan explained that after their argument, Cody was texting with someone and shortly after a car she didn't recognize with out-of-state plates arrived and picked him up. He didn't say where he was going but said it was a joy ride with friends to blow off some steam. Meanwhile, while she spent time with her brother at the house, she kept Kimberly up to speed on what was going on. Kimberly offered to help her go out and look for Cody since it was getting late, but she said that their conversation had made. made her so upset that she had no intentions of talking to him that night and didn't really want
Starting point is 00:18:34 to see him. However, if he didn't show up for work the next day, then she would want to go out and look for him. With some blankets and extra pillows, Jordan's brother Michael settled in on their couch to stay for the night. Sometime around 1 a.m., he fell asleep, but Jordan was distressed over what had transpired and couldn't make herself go to bed. Still texting back and forth with Kimberly, she grabbed her car keys and drove over to her house. When she arrived, Kimberly couldn't help but notice how distraught she was. She had been visually shaking and appeared to be very nervous. Kimberly concerned more had transpired than what she had said over text message, tried to get more information out of her to help, but Jordan was very withdrawn. She wasn't really
Starting point is 00:19:17 speaking that much, and she didn't want to elaborate on what had happened. Kimberly knew that she had been struggling a lot over the past week, and instead of pressing more about what had happened, she simply offered support and kind words to help her friend. The following day, Cody did not show up for work. This was extremely unusual because Cody was always very punctual for work. He wouldn't, and if he wasn't coming in, he always gave notice. So for him to just not show up in the morning and be late was very odd. Cameron Fredrickson, who was not only Cody's supervisor, but was also one of his best friends who he had known since they were children together, texted Cody around 8.30 in the morning, asking where he was and why he was late. When Cody still didn't respond after two hours,
Starting point is 00:20:05 he called him, but the call went directly to voicemail. Concerned, Cameron began calling around his friends and coworkers, inquiring if they had heard from Cody at all, but each replied that they hadn't. Around 4.30 that evening, he received a text message from Jordan, asking if her husband had ever shown up for work that day. When he said that he hadn't, Jordan explained the same story she had told her brother and Kimberly that they had gotten into an argument the night prior and he had taken off with friends. Cameron's first reaction to Jordan's version of events was that it seemed really strange. And very unlike Cody to just disappear like that in the middle of the night with friends. His feelings were confirmed when he spoke to another friend Jordan had told the story to as well.
Starting point is 00:20:49 However, in this version of events, Jordan had said that she had actually left the house and followed the car, but eventually lost track of it somewhere around the hungry horse dam. And this is a large power plant dam near Calispell and not far from the west entrance of Glacier National Park. So he heard the story and he's like, she never mentioned that she followed the car or anything to me. Like, whereas this seems inconsistent to what I'm hearing. And for Cameron, this was strange and made him believe that Jordan had known more than she was letting on and maybe had something to do with why he was missing. His suspicions were heightened because of the fact that Cameron actually never liked Jordan in general. He was so apprehensive about the marriage that before their wedding day, he told Cody that he believed he shouldn't go through with it at all.
Starting point is 00:21:38 He felt the relationship wasn't healthy and that Cody did everything and anything for Jordan, but it was never reciprocated. And he wasn't the only one who felt that way. Behind the couple's backs, Cody's friends had been taking bets on how long their marriage would last and how soon that they would file for him. divorce. They had even on one occasion question Cody on his reasonings for marrying her, but he became defensive and he stormed off, offended at the line of questioning. And I think that's pretty telling if your friends are taking bets on how long it's going to take you to file for divorce. Yeah, that's not a good sign. No. It's also really hurtful. If I knew my friends behind my back were taking bets on how long Al and I would get divorced, I would be really hurt by that.
Starting point is 00:22:21 Yeah, well, that and I don't know. It just... It just seems like he's, and I hate to comment too soon because I don't know the full extent of the story, but I know what happens in the end. Yeah. And I just feel like, I don't know it's hard because it seems very complicated between what she's saying and clearly she's a liar. Yeah, there's already some inconsistencies here that are sketchy. Right. So I don't want to say that she made everything up because if she truly was in any sort of abusive relationship, there needs to be some compassion given for that. But at the same time, that doesn't mean that you can push somebody off of a cliff either. Yeah. So I don't know. And it seems like he's defending his relationship to even the people that he loves the most. So clearly it seemed like he cared for her to some level. Yeah. For sure. I don't know. God, it's just love is so complicated.
Starting point is 00:23:27 And honestly, how many times have you been in a relationship where you know that you're in a bad relationship and your friends know you're in a bad relationship, but you still defend it because it's your relationship and you want it to be good? You know, it's just, guilty. Quite a few times. Yeah. But it's like your gut knows and my gut has always known and it's like you're convincing your. mind, your brain. That everything is okay when it's not. Right. It's just so. Relationships are hard.
Starting point is 00:24:01 Yeah, they are. When there had been no word of Cody the following day on July 9th, Cameron went to their home to look for him. When he arrived, no one was there, but the back door was unlocked and he let himself in. He looked around hoping that there was any sign of what might have happened to Cody and anything that would give him some type of answer, but there was nothing. He couldn't find anything that would suggest.
Starting point is 00:24:30 any direction to even think of. He called around to every hospital near and far that he could think of that his friend could possibly be at. And with each call, it yielded no results. Wait, okay, I need to clarify something before you go on. Okay. Was the night that they had this alleged argument and he took off or whatever, was that the night that she was planning to do something for him and then they got into this argument? Yeah, that morning at church, well, that morning at church he had told people that she had the sister. surprise that she was doing for him sometime soon?
Starting point is 00:25:03 That evening. Someone asked about it and was like, what was the surprise? And he was like, oh, it hasn't happened yet. So I don't know if it was supposed to happen that evening. It kind of sounded like it from conversation, but not fully confirmed. But there was allegedly a surprise that she was planning for him. Because I'm just, I mean, I'm just thinking like, oh, the surprise is to go into Glacier together. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:25:28 Would make sense. Yeah. Yeah. And we'll talk about that further down, too, because that was my, I was like, well, what, what is this surprise, you know? And so we'll get into that conversation for sure later. So his friend calls around to every hospital. There's no sign of him anywhere and he's getting really concerned. And at that point, he decides that it's time to call the police and report his friend missing.
Starting point is 00:25:49 So he calls the Calisbell Police Department. And on this phone call, he states, it's really important that you talk to his new wife. They've been married for a week, Jordan. and it's really, he says I really feel like she might know some information. Shortly afterwards, Jordan received a phone call from the Calispell Police asking her to come in for an interview. At the time, she had been out with her friend Amy Hess driving around actually looking for Cody. Amy had noticed that Jordan seemed off. When they looked for signs of him at the Hungry Horse Dam, Jordan didn't seem really all that interested in participating in the search.
Starting point is 00:26:25 and she was mostly on her phone, giggling and texting, which came off as really odd given her husband was missing. Jordan agreed to come to the police station and arrived there shortly after receiving the call. Sergeant Chad Zimmerman had been awaiting her arrival and escorted her into the interview room. When they sat down, he informed her that she would be recorded for the interview, which she acknowledged. He then proceeded to ask her where she had last seen her husband and when. This is where Jordan's story changed again. She told the officer that she was out picking up a phone charger that she had accidentally left at the home that she had babysat earlier that day. And while she was gone, Cody had sent her a text message that said that he was going out with friends.
Starting point is 00:27:08 And when she arrived, she saw a car leaving with out-of-state plates, Washington plates, that she assumed was Cody. She then went on to say that when he usually goes out with his friends, they will go over to the horse dam or venture into nearby Glacier National Park. The officer quickly noticed the inconsistencies with her story because they had spoken to his best friend Cameron before that and told her that he suspected that she was not telling the truth. However, with nothing else to go off of at the time and after 30 minutes of speaking together, she was free to go. The following morning on July 10th, Jordan arrived at the police station again. This time, she brought her mother with her. And Jordan was there because she claimed that she had received a very concerning email the night prior
Starting point is 00:27:54 after their conversation that she wanted police to see. She said that someone by the name of Tony had emailed her and said that there was no use looking for Cody because he was gone. She presented the email to Detective Corey Clark from her iPhone, and it read, My name is Tony. There is no bother looking for Cody anymore. He is gone.
Starting point is 00:28:17 I saw your post on Twitter and thought I would email you. He had come with some buddies and met up with me on Sunday night in Columbus. be a falls. He was saying he needed to be with his buddies for a bit and to take them for a joy ride. Three of the guys came back saying that they had gone for a ride in the wood somewhere and Cody got out of the car and went for a little hike and they are positive that he fell and he is dead, Jordan. I don't know who the guys were, but they took off. So call off the missing person's report. Cody is gone for sure, Tony. What in the world? Yeah. Okay. Sketchy. A police are probably like, okay. So.
Starting point is 00:28:54 Now we know exactly what happened. What is this? Yeah. We don't believe any of this. It's just so detailed. It's so detailed. It's very odd. And when people are trying, like, that's something.
Starting point is 00:29:06 When people are lying, they include specifics that are usually unnecessary. Like, not needed. Details that are definitely not needed or would be known by someone who was innocent. I just, yeah, okay. All right. So she just handed her iPhone. with that message. It was like, look at this crazy email I just got. Right. Right. So Detective Clark felt the same way that we feel right now and thought it was very sketchy. And he questioned her whether
Starting point is 00:29:36 Jordan even knew a Tony, which she said that she didn't. So again, another son. But this Tony has her email. Exactly. So this Tony has your email. He is just telling you about this death of Jordan, who these guys who he has no idea who they are told him randomly. Right. It makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So it was just like really weird. And the detective also noted that she seemed very calm for what was happening. And he said it. He was like, why are you so calm right now? Your husband's missing. You just got an email that said he's dead and to stop looking for him. And you're you're very calm collected and put together. Like this seems very odd to me. And Jordan's mother was there and she kind of stood up for her and was like,
Starting point is 00:30:23 you know, I know she seems really calm right now, but she was hysterical earlier when she got the email and she just really has a hard time showing emotion in front of other people, which other people did describe her that way, that she just was never really a forthcoming person with her feelings. But still, it seemed, this is a really emotional time. So the officer was like, I just, I'm not buying whatever this is. So Detective Clark left the room, but several moments later, another detective came in, Melissa Smith. She informed Jordan that her story had a lot of inconsistencies and that their interview was now switching into an interrogation. With this, she gave her paper to sign acknowledging her Miranda rights and that she could remain silent and not continue speaking with
Starting point is 00:31:08 them. Jordan signed the paper, but she did continue to speak with the officers. She explained her original story of how they fought and how Cody had taken off with friends. More suspicion was sparked in the investigator's eyes when they asked if they could read their text messages together because she had said Cody sent her text message that said, I'm going out with friends. And Jordan explained that she didn't have any because she had deleted their entire text thread. And she also explained that this was something that she did regularly because the kids that she babysat liked to go through her phone. So she periodically would delete her text messages between her and her husband.
Starting point is 00:31:45 I don't like that at all. I think that's very sketchy. Although, although not, I don't think this is this case, but I did know a girl in college who did always delete every text message she ever received in her phone. I currently know somebody who does that as well. Really? It seems like a lot of effort. It's so weird to me. It's so weird to me too.
Starting point is 00:32:09 Do you know why they do it? OCD reasons for sure. Okay. He doesn't like any sort of like clutter in. any sort of way, I guess, including his phone. I don't know. I think it's fucking weird. I think that's so weird. I'm like, okay, I get it. Maybe with your inbox for work or something. But these are messages with like, I mean, I'm probably middle of the road. Yeah, like I'm middle of the road. I have, I probably have, well, actually, let's see, what my latest, the ones that go as far back as. Okay. So I have a group chat that goes back to,
Starting point is 00:32:44 let's see 1111 19 and I only kept it because it has anything that had any Ian in it I kept. So like I have his text thread like pinned he's my first pinned text thread and our thread goes back to you know that long as well but as far as my regular messages I mean I think it's weird to just go ahead and delete entire threads for people you're actively speaking to. Yeah. How are you going to know what they last said. I have never deleted unless the only time I've deleted text threads is back when iPhone
Starting point is 00:33:21 would be like, your memory, you have too much, you don't have enough storage, delete stuff, or I was being sketchy. Or like, yeah. Like the only times have ever deleted something is because I didn't want someone else to see it. Which is, I think, the only reason to, or OCD, I guess. I don't know. I can't speak for everybody, but I think it's weird behavior. to actively be deleting conversations as they're happening. If you need to delete a conversation you had four years ago with people you're never going to speak to again, sure. Why is it on your phone? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:33:55 If you're just like decluttering things. Right. But if you're active with your husband, I would never be like, oh, well, I don't need that part of the conversation anymore ever again. I just have to delete this. Yeah. Especially when this, not even to mention when he's actively missing. and there's a whole thing going on. She's like, oh, yeah, I deleted that.
Starting point is 00:34:16 Yeah. And if Al was missing, I would be sending him a bunch of text messages and calling him, which would also be in my phone. Yeah. You know, so the fact that she had no text messages at all between them was very weird for investigators. However, despite their suspicions, there wasn't much that police could go off of at the time. Cody was still missing, but there was no evidence that a crime had occurred, so they had to let her go. That afternoon, a search party of loved ones headed into Glacier National Park in attempts to find Cody.
Starting point is 00:34:55 Where they lived in Calispell, Montana is known as the gateway town to Glacier National Park. It's a mere 45-minute scenic drive to the west entrance, which brings you to the iconic going-to-the-sun road. This road is a must-see for all visitors, and the road spans 50 miles traversing through the rocky mountains, offering views of glaciers, valleys sprouting with wildflowers, cascading waterfalls, and the abundance of wildlife that lives there. The search party were now beginning to think the worst. If Cody had entered the park like Jordan had suggested, he could be seriously injured or he could have had an accident and had died there.
Starting point is 00:35:32 They drove the going to Sun Road, stopping at Scenic Vista parking lots along the way, hoping to find any sign of him. Eventually, they found themselves at the loop, also known as the parking lot of the High Line Trail, an incredibly popular hike that offers sweeping views of the incredible landscapes of the park and famously leads you to the granite park chalet. The parking lot is located on a cliffside and the beginning of the trail features switchbacks leading you down into the
Starting point is 00:36:00 valley and along the mountain sides. When they arrived, Jordan walked the parking lot and then told her brother that she wanted to walk down to the bottom of the cliff wall in search of Cody. He responded that it was getting dark and it was just too dangerous to go down there that evening. Instead, they left in the following day the group returned. This time, they brought missing person flyers that they hung along all the way through the park, before going back to the loop. This time, they walked on the trail a bit together, and Jordan was insistent that she wanted to go to the bottom of the cliff wall that was there. The group questioned why she wanted to see that particular spot so badly, because she was really insisting on it,
Starting point is 00:36:41 to which she responded, quote, I just have a feel. She climbed down the wall and looked out into the ravine below. After a few minutes of looking from different angles, she called out to her brother Michael that she had spotted something. Michael quickly climbed down to see what she was looking at. And to his horror, hundreds of feet below was Cody, lying face down in a stream of water. Michael collapsed at the side of him and began to cry. Jordan, however, remained calm while they left the site to report back to Park Rangers. Jordan climbed into the car with a friend named Cecilia, while the rest of the group piled into other vehicles.
Starting point is 00:37:20 They drove towards the Lake McDonald Lodge, but on the way, Jordan said something to Cecilia that shocked her. She wasn't sad. She wasn't crying. She didn't seem shocked at what she had just seen. Instead, she simply stated to Cecilia, now that we found him, we can call that detective and he can get out of my business. Okay, that's, yeah, the absolute last thing. It's cold. If anything, I'd be like, I want you in my business and I want you to help me figure out what happened to him. Yeah. You know, like, that's.
Starting point is 00:37:51 If you truly don't know, like, I want you here. I want help. I want everyone's help. Yeah. Yeah. A park ranger was dispatched to the lodge where he had found Jordan and asked her to fill out a statement for him. Afterwards, because of the location of Cody's body and dwindling daylight, it was decided a team would come out the next morning to recover him. When investigators found him, one of his shoes had fallen off.
Starting point is 00:38:13 of him and was in the water. Beside him, they found a black cloth and they found his wallet in his pocket positively identifying him as Cody Johnson. After photos were taken up the scene, Cody was put into a body bag and he was airlifted out of the ravine. An autopsy report later revealed that Cody had died from blunt force trauma from injuries sustained in the fall, similar to those a person was sustained in a car accident. A few days following his recovery, a memorial service was held and afterwards a celebration of life with his friends and family was had. Cody's loved ones couldn't help but notice that Jordan's lack of emotion during these services and how withdrawn she was from everyone there.
Starting point is 00:38:54 Instead of mourning along with family and friends, she spent most of her time just on her phone. Meanwhile, the FBI found that there was enough inconsistency surrounding Cody's death that they opened a full-blown investigation, which revealed some very damning evidence towards Jordan. First, they subpoenaed for an IP address of where the email that Jordan received from Tony had come from. It revealed that the email was sent from Jordan's parents' home. In addition, they discovered the email was created the same day that it was sent.
Starting point is 00:39:27 So, I mean... So there's that. There's that. It's clearly from her. While that didn't prove guilt, it certainly raised suspicion. However, the nail in the coffin of Jordan's guilt for investigators came from security camera footage they acquired. from Glacier National Park. A camera at the west entrance captured footage of both Cody and Jordan in the same car, entering the park at 9.17 p.m. on July 7th.
Starting point is 00:39:54 This proved that her story of him leaving their home with friends had been a lie. And what friends? Oh, well, okay. Sorry. I guess you already said they don't know. They don't know, but just some friends from Washington. She doesn't have any name. She doesn't know. If Al went out with his friends, I would know name.
Starting point is 00:40:12 Well, that's what I'm saying. And it's like that feels like a, I'm not putting it past. It is what it is. But it just feels like a very juvenile move to do. Like I'm getting, my friends are picking me up because I'm mad and we're in a fight and I'm leaving with them. It just. Yeah. Like that feels like a very, I'm sure some people do that sometimes.
Starting point is 00:40:31 I know that like there's been times where you just need to physically remove yourself from a heated argument or something. But I would imagine you getting in. your own car and leaving versus having your friends come get you for a random joy ride. And I'm all about if I need, I don't know. If I need support for my friends, I will go to them, you know, of course. But the way that it's done in a random car you don't recognize just came. And your friends all the way from Washington came to pick them up after your fight in the middle of the night.
Starting point is 00:41:05 Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like, okay, there's a difference between being like, hey, I'm going to, what was his friend's house? Cameron. Is that his friend? One of his friends. Like, I'm going to Cameron's. I can't be here anymore.
Starting point is 00:41:15 That's fine. Yeah. But it just felt weird. Even it all feels weird because it is weird because it's made up because it's a lie. Yeah. But even if it was true, it just feels odd that that would happen. I agree. It's just very far-fetched.
Starting point is 00:41:31 It's like, what? And why is this a lie you're telling to? It's very inconsistent. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, get better at lying. I know. It's so easy from the city.
Starting point is 00:41:41 to be like if I murdered someone, I would never, I would have a way better lie. Yeah. Who are we to say? Who are we to say? We have not murdered anyone. We're happily. I haven't. I'm just kidding.
Starting point is 00:42:03 Like, I really haven't. I truly have not. I truly have not either. Glad we're on the same page. Okay. So on July 16th, investigators asked Jordan to come back to their station and they did this under the guise that they simply just had a few more questions for her. When she arrived, they asked her to recount her version of events again. And again, she told them the story of him leaving the house with friends that were from out of state.
Starting point is 00:42:29 When she finished retelling the story, she was informed that they knew she was lying and she was shown pictures from the footage of her entering the park with Cody. It was only then that she was charged with his murder and she acquired. an attorney. I also do think it's important to note here that while investigators had recorded all of their previous conversations, for whatever reason in this final one on July 16th, they did not record the entirety of the conversation. So exactly what happened for a confession or where the conversation led is up for speculation and debate, because there's actually not much, there are recorded. but they're only specifically of her giving them evidence that they could use in a case. There's no other conversation that is recorded and evidence of it, including like questioning that they were doing and things like that.
Starting point is 00:43:25 So that is something that is up for debate on what actually occurred during that meeting. In fact, when she was indicted for second degree murder and lying to police, her defense tried to get all of it entirely thrown out. This was on grounds that investigators were suppressing certain evidence. Her attorney claimed that the government selectively preserved evidence by recording only portions of the defendant's interrogation that it felt would benefit a case against her. They also argued that all previous conversations from July 16th had been video recorded, but arguably the most crucial part of their investigation where they accused her of murder was not. Her defense also said that the investigator's interrogation technique was unprofessional. He accused him of sitting too close to Jordan that he was so close to her during the interrogation that their knees were actually touching. And in a given circumstance during the conversation,
Starting point is 00:44:21 he put his hand on her knee even though she was wearing shorts and held it there. Her attorney said that the interrogation was an ambush and they used psychological techniques to get information out of Jordan that wasn't necessarily true. Jordan also swore that she took a polygraph which she passed in the interrogation, but investigators denied that that ever happened. Despite the allegations of misconduct for the investigators, the case went to trial. The prosecution argued that Jordan premeditated the murder by luring him into Glacier National Park and pushing him off of a cliff because she was unhappy being married. They also speculated that the black cloth found at the scene was possibly used to blindfold Cody, which could have been
Starting point is 00:45:11 linked to the surprise that Cody had told his friends that Jordan had been planning. It's all coming together. Yes. So that was their theory of what had happened. And actually, DNA later linked that black cloth to Jordan. They found her hair in it. They also said that she was trying to cover up her crimes by lying to investigators throughout pretty much the entire investigation.
Starting point is 00:45:36 They brought forward witnesses in the case, including Jordan's bridesmaid Kimberly, who, who spoke out against her. She confirmed all the odd behavior that she had been exhibiting and told the court everything that she knew. Jordan's attorney argued that she had pushed Cody off of the cliff in self-defense during an argument and that it was an accident. They argued that she had only lied to investigators because she was afraid that no one would believe her story.
Starting point is 00:46:00 So just to confirm, her story is still the friend thing and Tony. What is her story now? Her attorneys are actually not denying the fact that she killed Jordan. They're saying that she did it in self-defense. Okay. Because they have the footage of her in the park. So the defense team has gone with that this was a self-defense situation. Over a period of two and a half days, more than 30 witnesses came forward against Jordan,
Starting point is 00:46:30 including Cody's mother, who sobbed on the stand and detailed how excited her son had been to marry Jordan and start. a family. She explained how excited she had been to one day become a grandmother and how that opportunity had now been taken away from her. Another witness recounted a time where Jordan stated that she would be willing to kill her mother and her stepmother. Although it was not related to the case, the defense felt it was important to show her character. Yeah, very important to bring that up. She's threatening other lives and someone, her husband died. I think it's relevant, even if it wasn't part of the case. Followed through it. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:47:06 Yeah. It was December 12th, 2013 when the witness testimonies finished and the court took a short recess before each side would make their closing arguments. However, the trial took a shocking turn when Jordan arrived and announced that she was pleading guilty to second degree murder. The judge was surprised and asked Jordan if she knew what she was doing and that by pleading guilty, she was committing herself to prison for most likely the duration of her life. And she was foregoing the opportunity for the jury to decide.
Starting point is 00:47:36 if her defense team had represented her and there was a shredded doubt or that it was self-defense. And she confirmed that she knew the implications of what she was doing, but she wanted to plead guilty because she was guilty. The judge then asked if she was to plead guilty that she would like Jordan to give closure to Cody's family and friends and tell the court exactly what had happened that day. Jordan agreed and she finally told her story. She explained that she was unhappy with the marriage and was. having a lot of doubts, and she finally had the courage to speak to Cody about it after that night out with church members at the Dairy Queen. When they got home, she told him everything that she was feeling, but it resulted in a fight. When things calmed down, the two of them decided to take a drive to
Starting point is 00:48:22 Glacier National Park, and they wanted to go to the trail loop area just to talk more and kind of fend things out a little bit. It was late and the sun was setting, but once they were there, they walked the trail and then veered off into a steep area, during which their argument intensified. During the argument, Cody grabbed her arm when she tried to walk away from him, and in a heated moment, she pushed him off of her, but they were standing too close to the cliff and he fell off the edge. Ultimately, Jordan was sentenced to 30 years in prison, followed by five years supervised release. Prior to her sentencing, Jordan did try to withdraw her guilty plea, which the courts denied. In 2015, a year after her sentencing, she tried to appeal her conviction, which was also denied.
Starting point is 00:49:08 And most recently, on May 3rd, 2024, a motion was filed to reduce her sentence for a compassionate release. While I wasn't able to locate the document that detailed her reasoning why she should have a compassionate release, I did look up reasons of possibilities of why they would allow that. and some of that is due to a death in the family age, which she's not really old, so that wouldn't be for her or being terminally ill. However, as of July 2, 2024, a second motion was filed withdrawing that motion for a compassionate release. And as of today, Jordan Graham is still serving her sentence at a federal prison in Alabama. And that's what I have on her story. But I do have some thoughts here because I thought that her confession of what happened, I thought had a lot of holes in it.
Starting point is 00:50:02 So I don't really know if I think that we still have the full story. I would bet almost all that I have to say that that was not the full truth. Yeah. And I will part of what makes me speculate that too is that when he was found, he was found facing face down in the water, which meant he fell that way. And if they had been fighting, they wouldn't have been facing the edge of the cliff. You know, he would have had to be looking out the cliff and fell off that way when she pushed him. But that doesn't really make sense if they were face-to-face fighting with each other and he was grabbing her. I agree.
Starting point is 00:50:43 And also, I mean, the whole surprise thing, she just shot herself in the foot so many times throughout this. But that black cloth and coupled with the surprise thing that got leaked that she allegedly told him and he told his friends about it's so clear to me. It is so clear to me that. And I mean, obviously I don't know. But in my mind, it would make a lot of sense for whether or not an argument happened. Who knows? Yeah. Like maybe it happened.
Starting point is 00:51:15 Maybe it didn't. But I feel like it would be not out of the realm. of possibility for what truly happened that night is, okay, I have a surprise for you, let's go. Like, we're going to go to this beautiful place, this outlook, I have a surprise for you. And then blindfolded him once they got to a certain spot, she let him right up to the edge and push him over. Yeah. I feel like that's it. And as messed up as that is and as cold as that is, I feel like that's what truly happened.
Starting point is 00:51:43 Like whether or not they had arguments and then they made up and it's like, okay, let's still go and try and like patch things up or whatever. Like, I feel like the argument is kind of irrelevant in that version of the story because I think what's really it's centered around is like this surprise. That's what got him to this location and that close to the edge without, you know what I mean? Like, that's just what my feelings are. I agree. I agree with you, especially because in part of the research that I did, I saw that one article said that his friend said that he had a severe fear of heights and that he wouldn't have. stood that close to an edge. So I think it would make sense that he could have been potentially blindfolded and didn't know he was that close to an edge. Yes. Like that's just my, as an outsider
Starting point is 00:52:32 looking in with the very basic information that I know about the case just from what you told me, that is my feelings on it. Yeah. And I mean, as much as she is definitely a stone cold killer and a liar, I feel like there are some indications in there that she did feel some guilt based off of not only just saying coming forward being like, I'm guilty, I want to submit my, you know, I'm not even going to let the jury deliberate and do their thing. Like, I'm guilty. I'm going to come forward with it. But even just like after that when her friends were noticing how shaken up she was and how how visibly upset she looked and just wasn't acting right. And yeah, she was cold and stuff towards investigators and was acting odd and off. It feels like there are little glimmers of
Starting point is 00:53:21 her feeling guilty or at least her body giving tells of that. Yeah. And the fact that she didn't have to lead them to where he was. I mean, they were in the parking lot, but she didn't have to be like, hey, guys, look over this cliff. However, I don't know if that was guilt or she truly thought if they found him that the police would leave her alone. True. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not trying to, like, make anyone feel, like, compassion towards her because, I mean, she killed somebody. And it's awful. I just, I don't believe the girl. I don't believe her with that he was abusive or whether or not she actually came forward with that claim specifically, just based on things and comments that she's made. I don't believe that it was as bad as me. I think, I think, I. God, sorry, I'm rambling this. I am so tired today, guys. I'm so sorry. I'm like trying to form a thought and it's difficult. But I think that she was just unhappy. She made a mistake. She knows she made a mistake. Her gut was telling her far before the wedding that maybe this wasn't the right move to make. And for whatever reason, she went forward with it. And she was trying to backpedal and get herself out of it in the absolute worst way. One could do that. She did that. Yeah. Not to say that you can't change your mind and feel like you made a mistake.
Starting point is 00:54:47 There's different ways to go about reversing that mistake without having to kill somebody. But I don't know. I just feel like she freaked out and thought that this was an easy solution in whatever warped way of state of mind that is. Yeah. And I have. Like what do you think about like her allegations towards how he treated her. and why she did, because she never said why she did that, right? No.
Starting point is 00:55:17 No. She was unhappy. No. I mean, her whole thing was self-defense and that she was unhappy in the relationship. I do think just looking in the notes and maybe from the court documents and maybe this was further investigated and I'm just not privy to that information is that I'm not sure that the allegations of the abuse was investigated very much. It looks like it was kind of kind of just brushed off as as being false, especially because she had lied so much already. So I think her
Starting point is 00:55:52 credibility went down with every lie if that was true. No one was going to believe that. So I personally, I think that it would be interesting to know if they investigated that a little bit more to see if there was any truth behind it because I do think that that changes something if she was actively being abused. However, it was a really new relationship. It feels like this marriage wasn't something that she had. It's just like there was obviously other outs and not, I'm not trying to condone by any means what she was doing. And I still think that that's not right. And I don't think that, her version of events is true. I think that everything leads to her luring him out there for a surprise. I agree with you. But I do think it's worth investigating a little bit more if she was
Starting point is 00:56:46 telling the truth on that aspect of her relationship, because I do think that does change things a little bit. But from my point of view and perspective, I don't see if I was in the middle of fighting with someone and we were getting into heated arguments about the end of our relationship and how I wasn't happy, I wouldn't be like, oh, let's go adventure down the street and like just cool off for a little bit. You know, I wouldn't want to sit in a car with them and go to this beautiful location while I'm upset and crying and go out in public, you know, and especially it wasn't 2 o'clock in the afternoon. The camera caught them at 9.17 p.m. The sun was setting as they got into the park. So it's all she planned it out. Yeah, she planned it out. That's so obvious. I think to. I think it was
Starting point is 00:57:31 like I think it was a surprise at sunset in Glacier National Park is what I think just based on the timing. And I think that she is guilty and I do think it was planned out as well. Whether or not she felt bad about that to be not debated, I guess. I don't think personally if if what she's saying and we can't, we're just totally speculating, we don't know. But if what she's saying and her confession is not the truth, I don't think she feels bad about it because if you feel bad about something, you come forward and you tell the truth about it. And she also tried to recant her confession and she's also has actively tried to appeal her conviction and she's tried to get out of prison as of this year. So I think that if you really feel guilty about something, you wouldn't,
Starting point is 00:58:22 you wouldn't necessarily be doing that. Yeah. Well, we all know my feelings and I hope that she I don't know I don't have any hopes for her I guess Yeah sorry Jordan You just You're not a good person You're not a good girl
Starting point is 00:58:47 Yeah sorry Yeah and I feel but I feel awful for Cody's family And like it just It felt it feels to me a little bit That he was probably really blindsided If she's lying about Yeah the issues in their relationship and the any sort of abusive sort of things.
Starting point is 00:59:07 Yes. Like it just feels everything, how you kind of set up the story and what you conveyed about him and his feelings towards his marriage. It just feels like he was on a different planet. Like, he thought everything was beautiful and wonderful when she was feeling totally different. Yeah. Like you're in the same relationship, but you're on different pages. You're in different chapters and the same book. And that makes me really sad.
Starting point is 00:59:32 for him if that was the case. Yeah. Because that's not only did he lose his life, but he also was in this totally, he was under a completely different impression. And that's just, that's not fair. Yeah. It just, it feels to me that she probably didn't try and communicate any problems that she was having or feeling or whatever, even though she claimed she did. I don't know. Yeah. I'm going in a circle. I also feel like she was kind of breadcrumming the situation where she was sending out these. text messages like I don't know what I'm going to do I feel so bad I'm going to have this if anything happens to me if I don't come back just know something bad happened to me like I feel like she was kind of breadcrumming this over a week to lead up to make her seem like she wasn't
Starting point is 01:00:18 guilty she was she was like building she was she was yeah that was like it was like a long con essentially is what she was doing she was like really making sure that you know when somebody's trying to make, you know, it's like, let me make sure I go somewhere and I'm in security camp footage in case of anything, like, you know, just making these things known so that it's harder to argue. Yeah. I don't know. I, she's a freaking sneaky snake.
Starting point is 01:00:46 Yeah. I agree. I know you posted a picture of her on our, on our episode. I want to look at her. Oh, on our Trello board. Let me look at her. Yeah, we have a little, like, board that we use to organize our episodes. and stuff and Cassie out of little bit sure.
Starting point is 01:01:02 They look very unassuming. They look like a normal happy couple. I would never suspect anything, yeah. Although, I know that necklace is probably really special and stuff to her, but I hate a heart necklace. Fair. Fair. There's something about them.
Starting point is 01:01:19 There was always, I feel like in the early 2000s, they were really big, heart necklaces. Yeah, I never got on board. Do you remember that one from Claire's? the big chain that had a heart on it and it like went through a loop and everyone wore them in like seventh and eighth grade it was silver. It was like chunkier right. It was silver and chunky. Yeah. It was almost like a choker but like a little bit longer. I do remember but I was not on that group. I was in the actual like the black choker. I had a black choker phase but I also had the heart. Yeah. Yeah. But I also had the heart. Claire's heart phase too.
Starting point is 01:02:00 Let's not revisit that time in our lives. It's awful. If I had photos, I would post it, but I do not. You definitely have photos. None that I can. I bet on an old computer, I definitely do. I actually have this old computer sitting in my closet at my house that I keep back there because it's super slow now.
Starting point is 01:02:23 It's an old Dell. It's like one of the huge computers that I had in high school. And I know that there are a ton of photos on it. But it moves so slowly that it's really hard to take the photos off of it. So I know one day I'm going to do it, but I just haven't. But one day when I do, maybe I'll have those photos again. The only picture I can think of right now that I have somewhere that's not on a computer like that because Courtney sent it to me. So Ian's sister and I were friends before me and Ian ever dated.
Starting point is 01:02:58 like Courtney and I were friends first. We graduated in the same class together. And we were friends since like sixth grade. And I have a picture of me and her like our arms are around each other. And we were in either fifth or sixth grade at this time. So how old are you 12? Right. Yeah, you're like, Yeah. Yeah. And I have one of those chokers on. And I look like, first of all, I was the palest I've ever been. I don't know how I got that pale. And my hair was slicked back, like as tight as it could go with two big chunky strands next to my eyes pulled out. I look like I'm not smiling at all. I look like I'm about to, I feel look like I'm about to kill somebody. I have that black choker on.
Starting point is 01:03:44 And Courtney's just like super smiley, like bubbly. And I have this like black t-shirt on. And I'm like, oh my God, I look. I'm afraid of me. I don't know. I have no idea. But yeah, that's the choker pick that I could probably access, but I won't because it's scary. It sounds scary. I'd like to see it.
Starting point is 01:04:05 It's funny. It's like now I have an angel wing necklace. It's like how we have evolved. Yes. Well, that is the end of our episode. Thank you everyone so much for joining us. We will see everyone next week. And in the meantime, enjoy the view. But watch you're back. Bye, everyone. Bye. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark Book Club, live streams, Discord, and much more.
Starting point is 01:04:37 If you prefer to watch our episodes, video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and X at National Park After Dark. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you may not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressives save over $900 on average.
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