National Park After Dark - Trail Tales 10

Episode Date: July 4, 2022

Today’s stories include following your gut, “coincidences” and close calls on the AT.  All stories shared with consent.We love our National Parks and we know you do too but when you're out there, remember to enjoy the view but watch your back. Please take a moment to rate and subscribe from wherever you’re listening to NPAD! Become part of our Outsider family on Patreon to gain access to ad-free episode, bonus content and more. Follow our socials Instagram, Facebook , and Twitter. To share a Trail Tale, suggest a story, access merch and browse our book recommendations - head over to our website.   Thank you so much to our partners, check them out!   BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month of online therapy by using our link Xanterra Travel Collection: Become and employee and get FREE shared onsite housing. Reel: Use code NPAD for 30% off your first order plus free shippingApostrophe: Save $15 off your first visit with code NPAD Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Close your eyes. Listen to Monday.com. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform. So flexible and intuitive, it feels like it was built just for you. Now open your eyes. Go to Monday.com. Start for free and finally, breathe. Hello, welcome back to National Park After Dark. We have another Trail Tales episode. Hope you're doing something. You can sit and settle in because I have really long ones today. Yeah, I think a couple of mine are. kind of long too. So we have some fun stories and we're excited to just tell them. I want to go first. Okay. Okay. My first story is titled Two Tragic Falls and a Legacy of Love. Hi, Danielle and Cassie, long time listener finally getting around to sending in my own story. This is pretty long because it's technically two separate stories. Originally, I was trying to decide whether to share one or the other, but I realized that they're actually related in an unfortunate way. Both involve a death from falling while hiking, but have very different aftermaths. The first one I learned when I was in high school.

I was in the kitchen with my parents and my mom suddenly turned to my dad and said, you know who sent me a friend request on Facebook? Jay Darling. Note, his story has been publicized nationally and he passed away several years ago from cancer, so I'm not redacting his name. My dad raised his eyebrows and replied, your ex-boyfriend who probably murdered his wife? Of course, my Stephen King-loving goth teenage self immediately perked up. My mom has very positive memories of him so she wouldn't tell me a whole lot about what happened and I was deep in my woe is me my life sucks phase so I forgot about it pretty quick when I listened to the episode about James Botterini at first I thought it might have been about my mom's ex-boyfriend

researching it now there are a lot of similarities the TLDR version is that jay was already in hot water for committing mail fraud to get a bigger life insurance policy on himself and the suspicion was that he murdered his wife by pushing her off an 800-foot cliff in Kineye to collect on hers. He wasn't tried for her death until he served time for mail fraud and he was acquitted of all charges for his wife's death in 2007 and her death was in 1997. The year after his acquittal in 2008, a longtime family friend and his wife were hiking to the peak of Mount Crested View in Crescentview, Colorado. They had a seasonal home there and they were both retired doctors with a deep love for the outdoors. They were hiking to the peak, past the higher of the two ski lifts that are open in the

summers, Silver Queen, if anyone is familiar with the mountain, and reached a small overlook into what in the winter is one of the more advanced ski trails. Bruce had gotten a little ahead of his wife at this point, who had stopped to take a photo from the overlook when he heard a cry. His wife had fallen 200 feet from the overlook. Rescuer said it was very obvious that it had been a horrible accident from the state of the ground at the top of her fall. Bruce was heartbroken, as were their children. and grandchildren. However, he didn't stop loving the outdoors and that trail. I've been really lucky to get to spend several summers and a winter in Crested Butte, and every summer my family has gone, we've stayed with Bruce and hiked that trail. The first time I ever hike the trail was about a

year after Roslyn's death, and Bruce made it a point to stop at that overlook where she had fallen. I might be remembering it wrong, but I swear I heard him say hello to her when we reached that point. The edge has been roped off and has remained so since, but it's still an incredible view and a grand photo spot. Every time I've hiked that trail, I felt a happy presence in that spot. Roslyn was a joyous soul, and I think that she left some of the joy on the mountain where she died. Bruce has certainly shared it with everyone, both there and in his life elsewhere. He created a memorial scholarship in her name for the Crested Butte Music Festival and would choose the young artists who embodied her Joy de Vier Vest.

When I was in college, I helped the children's chorus fundraise for the Villeille. volunteer search and rescue workers, and the donation was made in both the music festivals and Rosalind's names. Both of the women in these stories died tragically, and both are still missed by their family and friends. Sadly, one may not have gotten the justice she should have if her death was truly a murder. The other, though, has become a symbol of joy and love for many with a lasting legacy. Thanks for reading my little novel. I have a photo I took the first year from the spot just above the overlook where Rosalind felt that I'm including because it really is a gorgeous view. Feel free to share. I'm excited to hear where you head next week and look forward to learning new

things every week. Thanks, AJ. That's like a really sad, tragic story with like a little bit of light in it too. Yeah, I really enjoyed that, especially because, you know, somewhere that could be viewed as really sad and dark. It seems like these, you know, these people, her family and friends, they wanted it to be still something to be enjoyed. Yeah. You know, even the physical spot, not just her legacy and all that. So I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I really like that they made it into like, this is a happy, beautiful place.

Mm-hmm. Okay, my story, I kind of, I think I'm on a theme here because I'm doing another stalker story. Okay. And the last trail tales, I did a couple and now were back into more of them. So unfortunately, a lot of our listeners have been stalked and followed. And says, hi, ladies, your episode on Jane Constantino was really touching. I appreciated how you spoke more on her life story than her murder. She really did some amazing things with her short life.

Unfortunately, her murder and the close call for the other women who were hiking in the area that day really shows you how dangerous being alone in the outdoors can be for women and trans people. My story may not have been a close call, but on reflections it seems like it was. I was doing some trail running in Palmer Park, which is a busy park in the middle of Colorado Springs. I know. You know exactly where it is. I live there. For those of you who aren't familiar with the park, even though it's in the middle of the city, it has some beautiful hiking and mountain biking trails.

I was running on this winding trail on the way back to the parking lot when I stopped to take a break and looked at the stunning view of Teia or Pike's Peak. After a few minutes, I started walking back down the trail. I was looking down for a while to fiddle with my earbuds, which I almost always wear during the run but rarely play music from. I think it's just a weird quirk of mine. when I heard footsteps approaching from the opposite direction. I looked up to make sure I was out of the way of any oncoming hikers or cyclists when I met the gaze of a man. He was probably in his 40s, white but tan, and he smiled. It's common for people in the area to nod, smile, to say hello as you're hiking by, so I flashed a quick smile back. But there was something uncomfortable about the way he smiled at me. Now that I think about his smile, I recognize it. It's the same smile that I would get from an executive at an office job I had years ago. who constantly sexually harassed me. It was that type of smile. But at the time, I knew that it had made me feel uneasy. So I took out my earbuds and picked up my pace, just in case. Then I looked over my shoulder and saw that he had turned around. Was he following me? That's a strange spot to turn

around, but I thought I was just being crazy. Even though I was second-guessing my intuition, I thought it was best to start walking faster. I looked behind me again and noticed that he was matching my pace. He was definitely following me. I ran. I ran as fast. I ran as fast. I was, as I could, and then I thought, shit. The trail I was on winds deeper into the park before it goes back out to the parking lot, and although it's a main trail, I didn't see anyone. So I hopped on a side trail that usually has less traffic, but would get me back to the parking lot faster, and I kept running as fast as I could. I didn't look back until I got to the parking lot. I didn't see him. I jumped in my car and I left as quickly as I could. If he would have cut up to me, would he have

hurt me? I don't know. Jane Constantino was murdered in a busy park on a busy day. Even though Palmer Park is completely surrounded by the city and is a favorite afterwork hiking spot for so many people. I never felt safe there again. Though I believe these very real fear shouldn't stop women and trans people from enjoying the outdoors, I also hope that knowing how common threats or violence against anyone who isn't a cis man motivates us as society to find solutions so that we don't have to be afraid as we all just try to live our lives as beautifully as Jane did. Oh, by the way, my name is Sam. Thank you for reading my story. Wow. I mean, they're not wrong because it doesn't matter how populated an area was. I mean, Jane was murdered in front of, well, not in front of people, but people were everywhere.

Yeah. And it didn't stop that guy. And it certainly doesn't stop a lot of people from committing really horrible crimes. And the outdoors, even if you are, like they said, it's a populated trail, but no one was around. If there's no one around, you don't feel any safer in this situation. Yeah, no. Yeah. Especially, yeah, I'm always kind of like, okay, yeah, people are around, but it doesn't really stop. Nothing can really stop someone from committing a crime like that, you know, like Jane or whatever that guy had in store for Sam. Yeah, it's just sad these kind of situations. It's whatever happened, whatever their intuition was to leave, they're alive now to tell this story. And that's the most important part. And I hope that they can eventually feel safer in that area. Because I just hate, I hate that stories are making people, it's ruining places for people. And I just think that that's the worst thing ever. And but I understand it 100%. I don't know if I would ever feel safe there again either, but it's just so sad that these incidents can take away the love and appreciation for places because you no longer feel safe there. Yeah, I totally agree. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want.

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It just starts. Hello, ladies. I just started listening to your podcast a couple of weeks ago. with the Trail Tales episodes that had several mountain lion stories. Since then, I'd been planning on telling you my most harrowing mountain lion tale. However, in light of this past week's events at my personal life and your request for magical tales, I've decided that another story I have might be more appropriate. I've always worked in remote and wild places since I first became a wild and firefighter at 17.

And I've got a lot of stories in your wheelhouse, but the one I'm going to tell you is definitely the most magical and a bit romantic too. Sorry if it's a little long. I met my boyfriend Jack in college five years ago. My summer job in those days was as a stream quality monitor in the panhandle of North Idaho. I spent four days a week camped in remote places next to beautiful streams in the mountains electrofishing collection stream morphology data and collecting macro invertebray water bug samples. Best job ever, by the way.

He worried about me the first few summers until I graduated and we moved away and took new jobs that didn't separate us so much. I worried about him too while I was out of service for days at a time because his job, while not remote, was still dangerous. I hiked every night after work before we met because I love hiking. And after we started dating, I got into the habit of hiking to the highest point I could see in every direction, every evening after work to try and find a signal to tell him I was okay and that I loved him. The second year that we were dating, my third season in water quality monitoring, we had a week and a half long centralized training for the whole monitoring program in the state in Boise National

Forest, which sits in the center of Idaho. The place for our training was very, very, and we had a remote about an hour drive on the Forest Service rows to the closest town called Yellow Pine, which had only about 100 residents at the time. I didn't have a signal in town or when I hiked to get to the high spots and I knew Jack would be worrying, so he was on my mind quite a bit while we were out there. There were about 30 of us altogether, including crews and crew leaders. One of the members on another crew was my older brother who had been in his fifth season at that point and had gotten me into the job in the first place. In the evenings, I still took my hikes alone while everyone else got drunk by the campfire. It was early summer, high in the mountains. The creek still had some of that

glacial blue and were still very cold. The wildflowers were blooming and the evening sun cast a red light across the meadows and peaks. Absolutely gorgeous. On the fourth or fifth evening, we were out there. I was taking my evening hike and missing Jack and wishing that he was there to enjoy the beautiful place with me. I was pretty greasy from not showering at that point. I had some camp soap in my day pack, so I decided to brave the cold creek for a wash. I was about five miles from camp and not worried about peeping tom's so i stripped down naked and waited in with a squeak you know the cold water squeak uh yeah i know it very well familiar it's like you can't help it i was like oh god and after i caught my breath i began to wash at one point after i dunked to rinse my hair i looked up and my

breath caught in my throat about 200 feet away standing on its hind legs for a better look at me was a large black bear four. After settling down from the initial start, I started talking to the bear, as this is what I've always done around animals. Typically, when an animal meets another animal harm, they will be silent until the last moment. So making a little quiet noise puts everyone at ease. At first, I teased him for being a purve watching me bathe. The bear huffed at that and dropped down on all fours and began to browse the vegetation nearby, apparently not very interested in my bad jokes. I watched him for a while, still talking from time to time. I told him he was beautiful, and he was, easily the most beautiful bear I had ever seen.

His features were so strong, his limbs so powerful, and his coat a beautiful, glistening, dark, chocolate brown. Whenever I paused and then started talking again, he would look sideways at me. And perhaps it was just because Jack had been on my mind, but the bear's eyes glistened just like Jack's did when he glanced over at me from his side of the couch when we were watching a funny show and enjoy. a joke together. Other things reminded me of Jack, too. The color of his coat and his eyes were the same as Jack's. The strong, shapely snout reminded me of Jack's nose, which is a very strong feature that he had inherited from his Native American grandfather. The grunts he made even sounded like Jack when I shake him awake when he falls asleep on the couch. Eventually, I got out of the creek and left the bear after spending about half an hour in his company. I was never afraid, never

felt threatened, but never attempted to get any closer either for obvious reasons. I was happy after I left. I didn't tell anyone in the camp about the bear, not even my brother. I never saw the bear again, but a couple days later, two days before we left, I found bear tracks in the sand right outside of my tent. Beside my tent in front of the door, as if the bear had just peeked in to check on me and then continued on his way. This wasn't necessarily uncommon in my line of work, but rather than making me uneasy, as it usually did, it actually made me feel happy, even safer somehow. I told myself it was stupid, but the feeling just stayed. When I reunited with Jack at the end of my training, I thought about telling him about the bear, but I thought he would just tease me from my romantic thoughts.

But later, the first night after I was back, we were in bed and he was on the verge of falling asleep and muttered, I dreamt about you swimming. Swimming, I asked. Jack doesn't remember his dreams very often, so it was odd he was commenting on it at all. Yeah, he said, kind of. of trailing off. You were swimming in a creek naked. I saw your boobs. It was great. And then he started snoring. I'm not really a superstitious person, but I also don't question the things I see with my own eyes too much. I drew no particular conclusions based off of this incident, but I can tell you that I've had many dreams since then about Jack transforming into a bear. Sometimes they were nightmares where he was being hunted by men with dogs, and I was hunting the men to try and stop them. Sometimes they were just

serene images of a chocolate brown bear foraging in the mountains. Jack proposed to me last week and I said yes. That is why I felt like this magical story was the right one to tell, or at least it felt magical to me. I'm ecstatic to be spending the rest of my life with the man and maybe seeing a bear in my dreams. I'd like to tack on a disclaimer to the end of this story. Please do not approach bears or other wildlife, even if you think they might be an animal manifestation of the love of your life. It's much safer for you and the animals to just wait until you're both human. together again. Thank you for your lovely stories. I'm excited to catch up on the rest of them. Best wishes, Katie. I really like the disclaimer at the end. I just thought it was so sweet.

And I just recently over, you know, the last few months, I've just really honed in on the fact of like, or the sentiment of I really don't think that there are such things as coincidences, even if you can't explain them with your rational brain. I just feel like, what are the chances of that? I don't even know. You know, he saw what she was doing in a weird way. Right. Yeah. It's just.

And for her to just, I mean, like she said, she has been out and doing this. She obviously spent a lot of time outdoors and in the presence of wildlife. And this is obviously not the first bear she ever saw. So for her to like all of a sudden just pinpoint, all of a sudden just be really thinking of her now fiance in that bear and then he randomly has a dream it's just it's just bizarre i don't get it i don't understand the reasoning but i don't think it was a coincidence yeah and i think that's a really special story that you should always hold on to it's a really magical wildlife experience and i think a lot of people don't necessarily get a really magical experience with wildlife and this is definitely one of those yeah i mean she said

she was like she was already in a remote camp and then she was five miles away from that camp by herself And it was just like a pure. And not to be afraid. Yeah. Like you just know that you're not in danger in that moment. Mm-hmm. It's very cool. Yeah.

Well, I have kind of another story that also isn't super morbid or scary. And they titled it My Magic National Park Moment. It says, hi, Cassie, and Danielle. I am a huge fan of your podcast and have listened to almost every episode while I've hiked, skied, and crocheted. I don't have a particular story that is necessarily. worthy of being featured on trail tales. Hello. Guess what? You too. But I just wanted to send a quick message and share my heartwarming story. I'm also the outsider who requested a Capitol Reef story

and you'll see why. Oh, okay. It was inspiration for my Capitol Reef episode. Okay, I was like, oh, right? Yeah. It's all coming together. It is. I'm a rising senior at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City pursuing a degree in parks, recreation, and tourism with an emphasis in outdoor recreation studies. What a cool degree. That's very specific. You're like cooler than I ever was in college. Biology. Psychology. I grew up in Boulder, Colorado with super outdoorsy parents that have worked in the outdoor industry my entire life. I've always known I wanted to follow in their footsteps and do something within the outdoor industry. I just wasn't sure what. I thought I wanted to be a sales rep like they are until this past spring semester of college. I was taking four classes. I was taking four classes.

for the Outdoor Rec Studies block that were all co-requisites of each, foundations of outdoor rec studies, adventure and outdoor programming, wilderness safety and survival, and environmental interpretation. And everyone in the block already knew each other from a different block of courses the previous semester, so I was very nervous to make friends. This was also my very first semester back in person after COVID, so it was stressful. I also knew that this course included multiple field trips, including a camping trip to Capitol Reef National Park. Now, I I mentioned that I didn't know what I wanted to do for my career, but at the time I did know what I didn't want to do. I wanted nothing to do with the parks or forest service, and I thought it was strange that many of my classmates wanted to be park rangers or what have you.

I learned so much in the classroom for this class, but what really shined on me was the Capitol Reef trip. We drove down on a Monday and camped in the parks developed campground, fruited campground until we left on Friday afternoon. During this trip, we hiked, explored, and learned so much about so many different topics. Everyone in the class had to do a 15-minute interpretive presentation on a topic of our choice relating to the park. My very favorite one focused on the geomorphology of Capitol Reef. If you don't know what that is, it's basically how the landforms came to be. I was absolutely intrigued by this information and have been obsessed with looking at layers of rocks ever since. We also got to have a Q&A with the superintendent of the park, which was awesome because,

It was rad to see a badass woman in such a high position within the park service. Growing up in Colorado with the outdoorsy family, I was lucky enough to have been to several national parks before this, but things were different this time. You guys talk about your magical national park moment, Cassie's being in Grand Teton National Park, and Danielle's in Yellowstone. And I feel so lucky to have had mine in Capitol Reef. It's such a unique park with significantly less visitors than Utah's other four national parks, so much native and settler history, and some of the

most amazing and stark rock layers you've ever seen. I just love it so much and I could talk about it for hours and I am not so patiently waiting for you ladies to feature Capitol Reef in an episode. Thank you so much for taking the time to read my email. I love and appreciate what you guys do so much and if you ever need to add someone to the team, I would be very interested. If anyone is ever in Capitol Reef, you need to grab a pie or a cinnamon roll at the historic Gifford House and pick some fruit at the historic Capitol Reef. which they have acres and acres of. It's also a dark sky designated park. So be sure to look at the night skies. They are truly insane. If the story does get read on an episode, I want to shout out

Alex Fluegel. I think that's how you say the last name. If he's listening because he is also a boulderite and was in my ORS block, but he's the one who told me about NPAD. And I am forever grateful to him for that because this podcast has changed my view on national parks for the better. Thank you for all you guys do. Oh, that was very sweet. That was really nice. Thanks, Alex also. Shout out Alex.

Yeah, thanks. Spreading the word. I just, I love that one because I think national parks mean so much to so many people and to be able to find something that you really love and are interested in and to have that moment of like, this is my place. Yep. It was just a really special story. You've been, have you been to Capitol Reef?

I haven't. It's one of, it's the only national park in Utah I haven't been to. Oh, okay. Because my, so my mom. mom and my stepdad went. And I remember they really, really enjoyed it. And partially because it's one of the least visited. So it wasn't like going to Zion or arches or whatever. And they just, yeah, they really enjoyed it. So I'm looking forward to going too because I just love seeing people's inspiration for why they like the park that they like the most because it varies so much. And Capitol Reef is one that ever since my family went, I've really wanted to see too. So it's on your list. It's on my list.

Girl, winter is so last season. And now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope.

It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Okay, so my next one also does not have a title, and it just begins, Hi, Girls, I discovered your podcast last month. It has been a savior for me, and I've binged my way through every episode while at work. I am often alone. Both of your sweet voices have been my faithful company, and I think of you as my friends.

It's all my mom and boyfriend have heard me talking about lately. You both have stated my unending urge for adventure and history every day. I don't know what I'm going to do now that I have finished all your episodes. Today, I listened to episode 66, and I already knew about Ian, but I dropped everything I was doing and cried when I heard the clip of his voice. I am so, so sorry for your loss, Danielle. Thank you. I have been thinking of sharing this story for a week or so, but after hearing that, I couldn't help it feel like I had to. You all have been in my thoughts and prayers. Maybe you can take comfort in the way I have been.

This story doesn't necessarily take place in a national park, but it is very related, as you'll see. I'll do my best to not be too long, but I already know that I will fail miserably, so settle in. Late August, I lost my grandfather. I was very close to him, and it is the most painful thing I have ever experienced in my life. He was an extremely healthy person who always loved the outdoors. When I was young, he was often on his motorcycle in the Sierra Nevada's. Almost 10 years ago now, he got into an almost fatal accident, and doctors told him he would never walk again. but in less than a year, he was back on his feet to everyone's amazement.

A hiker and outdoorsman, the last few years he and his girlfriend would travel the country going to national parks, camping, fishing, and exploring. He was always strong and invincible seeming to me and never ever got sick. Needless to say that his death at 69 came as a complete shock to me and my family. Heartbreakingly, he had asked me and my family to come visit him numerous times last summer. Adeline, come down. for a month. Stay with me. Go to some national parks. You can drive my truck. All you have to pay for is the flight over. He came to Georgia to stay with us at least twice a year, and we had a lot going on,

and it felt like a trip to California, we live in Georgia, was just too much. COVID was still taking over everyone in California and had a new job to keep up appearances at. It is a decision that I will regret for the rest of my life. My grandfather lived in Oakdale, California, the cowboy capital of the world. I did not know that. I can still close my eyes and see the almond orchards to my left and the massive willow tree in his field. He had carefully watched to make sure it always had a steady drip of water since before I was born. My mother grew up riding her horse on the trail surrounding his land, and the place is just filled with memories. A short two-hour drive east lies Yosemite National Park.

Grandpa brought me there twice, taking part in the creek. of my nature obsession. It was the first time I had ever seen a national park. As an adult, I exhausted every state park and trailhead I could find within an hour or two of my North Georgia home, went on a few road trips, and was creating a list of all the places I wanted to see someday. Mine is very long and seems to have everywhere on it too. L.O.L.

Cassie and you have a lot in common. When my grandfather passed, after our initial shock and horror, my mom and aunt faced the painful task of selling his home. He had a large shop on his land, full of tools, a motorcycle, tractor parks, and any other miscellaneous thing you may think of, a daunting task. My aunt arrived there from Georgia before my mom and I. She did her best to go through everything at the house and figured out what needed to be sold. The biggest part of this story is hers and not mine. My mom received a phone call while I was in the car with her. My aunt's frustrated voice came over the speakers. Lisa, it's ridiculous. I can't find dad's keys to the toolbox, and I have to

clean it out. I can barely move it. It's so heavy. Do you have any ideas? I think the keys to the bike are in there, and I can't sell the bike without the keys. I can't even get the mileage on it. I mean, what am I supposed to do with all of the shit? I can't find anything. Where would he put his stuff? How are we supposed to figure this out? My mom went through some of the places she thought were possible, but really had no clue where to look. Why would they have not been just with his other keys? a whole basket of them in the house. Exasperated, my aunt got off the phone saying she would keep looking. We talked for a few minutes, my mom joking about my grandfather leaving us to figure out everything, and laughing while Lana looked for grandpa's keys across the country from us. My aunt has an

entertaining personality. When she's frustrated, she is really quite funny. She isn't the most clean-mouthed, and my mom and I could easily imagine her walking around, shaking her head and complaining to herself. Shortly, we received another call from her. We looked at each other. and laughed before picking up, knowing it would be another complaint. Lisa, the keys. I, well, I was looking everywhere. And I was getting so upset and I just stood in the middle of the shop and said, damn it, dad, where the hell did you put the keys?

And, while I looked around, closed my eyes and outstretched my hand with my fingers pointed. It sounds ridiculous. I don't know what possessed me, but I started walking with my hand out. Just when I started thinking I was being ridiculous, I reached around a corner and felt the keys at the tips of my fingers. I opened my eyes and they were in the wall. My mom paused for a moment. I'm not really surprised, she said. Yes, well, you don't understand. I closed my eyes. I was getting really frustrated with him and I just yelled at him so he showed me. I put my hand out and I turned around as if I was being led. There is this huge wall and there are support beams and back behind one far back in a hole.

I had to reach in a ways and the keys were hanging on a nail. I never would have found them or thought to even look there. I had my eyes pressed closed. tight. It's crazy. I can't say I was surprised either. I had believed that maybe, maybe ghosts exist to some extent for years. I listened to too many lore episodes to think otherwise. But the idea that my grandfather really did that was surprising and I'll say convincing. I knew my aunt is a very naturally skeptical person. So on the whole, the situation couldn't be more discredited in any way. I missed him so much and I still do. I wanted to believe that he was still really there. We joined my aunt there for a few days and my oldest cousin joined us a few days after that. For me, it was a fight

to begin a week full of tears. It was heartbreaking to see his home while he was missing and even more heartbreaking that my cousin, aunt, mom, and siblings were all staying under his roof for the first time ever and he wasn't there. The first night we were all together, we made dinner and sat outside where we would sit when he used to barbecue for all of us. All I could think of was how happy he would be to see us all together. As we were cleaning up after dinner, I decided to take some scraps to the neighbor's goats down the driveway. It was a long driveway with fencing on either side, and his house is on top of the hill. As I was on my way back, I just felt so heavy. I was looking at my feet, walking slower as the driveway got steeper. As I approached the hill, something told me to look up. What I am about to say

seems unbelievable. I even found it to be, but it happened. It's a small thing, but it was very meaningful to me, and I'll never forget it. At the top of the hill, my eyes met my grandfather. He was motioning for me to come up the hill and back inside, smiling and laughing. I felt some sort of weight on my chest lift as my eyes insisted to me that he was right there, just a few steps in front of me. Him in his old striped sweatshirt and khaki shorts. He laughed and called for me to come back to the house. The sun was setting behind him and the last few sunbeams lit up his gray hair.

I picked up my pace but had to glance down to keep from falling on my face coming up the steepest part. When I looked up back up, he was gone. I will never forget the peacefulness in that moment. I knew my grandpa could see us there together. I knew he was happy and safe. It was so hard to see him gone again, but the few moments I did see him were so comforting. I will never fully understand any of it, but that's my story.

I ended up inheriting his truck, a 2005 F-150 with only 33,000 miles on it, a perfectly kept vehicle. We discussed what to do with it. It was so expensive to ship back home, and I was in between jobs by then, so I decided that the best use of the truck being on the opposite side of the country was to drive it back. It ended up being the road trip of a lifetime. My mom, my sister, and my youngest brother and I all drove from Oakdale through the Redwoods, Kings Canyon, Zion, the Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon.

Stay at the Ruby Inn if you can or eat there. It's fantastic. Capital Reef, Arches, Canyonlands, Black Canyon of the Gunnison, and Rocky Mountain National Parks. We hiked, drove, cried, got lost. We saw frozen lakes and swam in the desert. We even saw a bald eagle in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison. It was incredible. I had never been to any of those parks before. I am so thankful to my grandfather for making that a possibility.

I bought a sticker at each stop along the way and put them on the back window. I can't wait to plan my next road trip. I would say it is a very healing thing to do when something traumatic like this happens. If you have the time and ability, well, that's my story. Like I said, Long, thank you for all you do. I appreciate your story so very much, especially the history. The photo attached is of my grandpa and younger siblings in 2005 at Yosemite National Park. Sincerely, Adeline.

I loved that story. Oh, just hit me where it hurts at. Oh, shit. Pulling at the heartstrings on this one. Oh, my God. I just, I really, nothing's a coincidence. I'll tell you that right now. I just told you before in the last episode, whenever that comes out.

I don't know what time is anymore. But yeah, there just isn't anything like a coincidence, you know, just shutting your eyes and being like, just guide me to it, seeing a flash and then seeing, you know, inheriting this truck and going on a trip you never would have ever wise took. You know, it's just horrible things happen. But through those times, I think there are little, there are little glimmers of, you know, wow, this is really special. And that story had a lot of them.

So thank you for sharing Adeline. I loved it. I have my next story. I feel like every time you say uplifting one, I'm like, and no, I'm bringing you back down. This one is called Close Call Kidnapping on the AT. Okay, we're back down. Hi, ladies, I started listening to your podcast three days ago

and am already deep into it and recommending it to all my friends. Love your show. You guys are doing great. I have a sort of creepy close call trail tale with some lessons learned that happened to me last summer. May of 2021, I graduated Virginia Tech and decided to, quote unquote, walk home from school via the Appalachian Trail. What? It was a 23-day hike and about 310 miles and my first solo backpacking trip longer than a night. Each day, I'd get to a shelter by dark, make dinner, and socialize with other through hikers, then turn in for bed before walking the next day. One night, I outwalked the group I normally met at the camps and high school.

had gotten to the camp where I'd known no one. I sat down for dinner with two other hikers and former U.S. Marines, McS. and Locash, and hung out for an hour or so before going to bed. The next morning, we said our goodbyes and I didn't see them again for three days. When I saw them again, Lokash came up to me and saying he was relieved to see me and began to tell me about the morning we had left the camp. He and McSquatch headed out earlier than me and were a mile apart from each other as they hiked that day. Almost right after the campground was a big 1,000 foot incline where the AT practically shot straight up and crossed a serpentining forest road multiple times as it made its way up the mountain. Low Cash told me how McSquatch had been

approaching one of these roads crossings and hearing the hum of a motor. When he reached the cross, he saw a green windowless van idling at the trail. He found this suspicious and pretended to take a water slash snack break at the road and watched to see. see why the van was there. After a few minutes, the van went out of the park and continued up the mountain. McSquatch continued to hike up and 15 minutes later made it to the next portion of the trail where the road crossed and again heard the motor running, but this time he did not see the van. He made loud stomping noises with his feet and pull so the van would hear someone approach and they came into sight now driving down the mountain, passing him and seemingly leaving. On its way down, Lokash, who was

further behind encountered it at the two trail crossings too. I will say that cars idling by trailheads isn't uncommon on the AT. Sometimes they're picking up their friends who are hiking or looking at a map for parking or doing trail magic, but this was a remote location on an unpopular hike and right off of I-81, which is notorious for sex trafficking. Low Cash thought this was suspicious, just like McSquatch, getting the bad gut feeling and dread without the two even communicating to each other yet about this, and he too waited at the crossing, eyeing them down to leave. He said he did this because he was aware that I was close behind him and he had a feeling that when I wandered up next and the van saw me alone, I would be in a very vulnerable position and likely what they were looking for.

I'm deeply grateful to McSquatch and low cash for trusting their guts and looking out for me that trail day. Maybe it was nothing, but you talk about that feeling of dread in your show and how it's always right and the fact that they both felt it with this seemingly trivial encounter makes me a believer to listen to your instincts. I also learned to keep your phone charged in handy, not in the back pocket of your backpack, in case something would happen and they take you and leave your bag. My final lesson was to make friends on the trail, so they look out for you and notice if you're missing, and also to look out for yourself and carry some form of protection. I wish that day I brought a knife or pepper spray more than just the whistle I had tied around my straps. Again,

you just never know. A green windowless van hanging out next to the AT is scary. Idling. Something about the idling, too, adds like a layer of... Like they're ready to drive away. Right. Yeah, just ready to take off. Oh, God.

I just, yeah. I mean, those are all great tips, too. Like, you know, make yourself known, make friends. Like, hi, I'm here. Yeah. You know, and just always keep an eye out, you know. Yeah. And I have to agree with them.

Like, it's a good thing that they hung out and stayed. And watched because they were two, it sounds like they were two big guys, but when she walked by alone, walking across the road, it could have been a very different story. Yeah, it's good people are out there. Yeah, absolutely. Surprise. We're doing four stories each. Yeah. Today.

We're doing an extended episode of Trail Tales today. Yeah. So my last one is titled Haunted South Africa and the Hex Valley Witch. Ooh. Hi ladies. First of all, I absolutely love your podcast and I'm so glad that I found it. I listen every week and I am always bummed when I run out of episodes to binge on my hour-long drive to work. I even hooked my boyfriend on you guys after forcing him to listen to Night of the Grizzlies on our way to bear country in Idaho. I didn't grow up doing a lot of outdoor adventures and I'm now making up for the lost time as an adult. I'm learning to overcome my fears and explore places I never thought possible thanks to bear spray and a little bit more understanding about wild animals. Needless to say, I appreciate your thorough research, hilarious banter, and ethical and moral points that leave me thinking more thoughtfully about how I adventure around the world. Thank you for creating it.

Okay, you think we're hilarious. That is great. That's all I got is that we're really funny. It's like, that makes me so happy. That is something I've never heard. No one has ever been like, oh, Danielle, she's so funny. Like, no one has ever since that. Until today.

Until right now. Okay. Add it to your resume. Yeah. My trail tale doesn't take place on a trail per se, but after hearing one of you mentioned that South Africa was number one on your list, I had to send in my story. I graduated high school at 18 without much of a plan and decided to spend a few years volunteering around the world until I found out how to land on my feet. I spent time in the UK, Guatemala and Cambodia, then committed to spend six months volunteering in South Africa to help spread awareness about human trafficking prior to the World Cup. Wow. A well-traveled woman. Really good person. From the start, I fell in love with South Africa. I've traveled all over the world, and South Africa will always remain my favorite country. The striking landscapes and wild rugged beauty captured my heart right away.

I lived in Worcester, Western Cape. Okay, and just so before everyone comes at me, this is spelled like Worcester, like in mass. Okay. And it looks visually like Worcester. I don't know how it's pronounced, but in mass, we see. say Worcester. It's Worcester. It has to be. I don't, it's in South Africa though. Oh, fair. Either way, I lived in Worcester, Western Cape, and my friends and I would sometimes travel over the mountain to visit Cape Town. Sometimes we would stop our car at the top and watch

baboons sneak out towards us from the mist. I was lucky enough to have met a few individuals that grew up in South Africa and were able to show me around places like Musenberg, the Garden Root, and Wilderness. We were even able to camp on Christmas Eve and wake up to sweating at about 113 degrees Fahrenheit. It was truly the adventure of a lifetime. But this story is about the Hex Valley. My friends and I were invited to sing at a local church conference in Hex Valley, about an hour's drive away from Worcester, in a town called De Dorens. Because the conference would be two days long, the church paid for all four of us to stay overnight in a local guesthouse on a farm. The farm was part of the original De D'orns, one of the first four farms in the Hex River Valley in the year

1731. Many travelers traveling between the Cape of Good Hope and the Karoo would visit the farm to buy brandy and experience the hospitality of the farm. The outside of the guest house, which I'll keep anonymous, was yellow and the house itself was located in a beautiful vineyard valley. Sounds so picturesque, right? That's what we thought too. We got there a little later than planned and decided to split the rooms up so that myself and the other girl on the trip got the two twin beds and the guys split up between a bedroom and a couch situation. We had a little bit of bray outside and settled into our respective rooms for the night. That night, I dreamt someone was stabbing me in the calf and woke up with a sudden jolt of my leg being pulled, causing me to move about a foot down the bed and a sudden

painful sensation in my leg. Suddenly, I was at the end of the bed without any possible explanation other than some unforeseen force propelling me forward. I got out of bed, tried to stand up, and promptly fell to the worst Charlie Horse of my life, preventing me from moving. I turned over to say something to my friend in the next bed over, who was also tossing and turning in her sleep. I decided against waking her up and spent the next couple hours until daylight feeling a mixture of both scared shitless, perplexed, and trying to navigate the situation from a rational standpoint. The next morning, I shared with my friends what happened and they stared at me. Wide-eyed. Turns out, I wasn't the only one that slept poorly that night. My friend in the bed next to me had a very simple,

dream of a man trying to stab her with a knife and the two guys we were with both had the same dream of a girl crying and frantically searching for something or someone. We were all pretty spooked and shook when we arrived at the conference and the staff asked us how we slept. We shared our experiences and they gave us each a look that seemed to show that they weren't surprised. It was then that they told us the place that they had put us up in for the night was known for being haunted, but a great deal. And they thought that the four spiritual people were there. so it wouldn't be a problem. Like, thanks for the heads up.

They're like, oh yeah, you go to church, you'll be good. Like, no big deal. We just wanted to save money and scar you for life in the process. So, who were the people we saw in our dreams? We have a couple of theories, but the woman was most likely the Hex Valley witch. Legend has it that the Hex Valley gets its name from a bewitched spirit named Eliza Marrying, who resided in the valley in the mid-1700s. She was said to be beautiful and have many suitors, so much so that she said she would court the first man who was able to climb Matruzbo Peak, the second highest peak in the Western Cape, and return with the rare indigenous Disa Unaflora Orchid.

Unbeknownst to her, her favorite suitor took up the challenge and slipped and fell to his death, causing Eliza to be wracked with grief so deep that she allegedly went mad and had to be confined to her house. One day, she tried to escape from her room and fell out the window to her death. Some say it was an accident, while others say it was suicide. Now, she is called the Witch of Hex River Valley because her pride cost her her life and love, and can be seen wandering at night to those who watch for her, with her grief-stricken cries, even invading your dreams. Oh, and I forgot to mention, this all happened three minutes from our guest house. As for the male who so rudely woke me up, I never did find out who he was,

and would love to hear from your listeners if they have any theories. For all the creepy-crawlingness of the story, I wouldn't change my time in South Africa for the world and dream about going back someday. It was when I was there that I was able to reconnect with myself and discover my passion for helping others, which led me to now working as a licensed clinical professional counselor. As always, enjoy the view, but watch your back

because sometimes it's haunted as fuck and can still lead you to beautiful things. Allie. because sometimes it's haunted. It just reminds me of you, like, you were on a kick once of saying, you got haunted. It's like, I'm not sure if I was haunted. It was like, you were. You got haunted.

You got haunted. Allie and friends. And said it once, I'll say it a million times. There is no such thing as a coincidence. Especially dreams like that. Dreams like that. There is in no way that this dream that. So the two girls.

had a similar dream and the two guys had a similar dream. Yeah. There's just no way. No. And I'm going to share something that is dream related. It's not haunted. And well, maybe it's hot. I don't know. You can make up your mind. You got haunted. You got haunted. I didn't get haunted. I wish I got haunted. But I'll try and keep it short. But it's so special. And it has to do with dreams and it not being a coincidence. So several weeks ago now, Ian's sister and mother who were in two different places, two different countries actually, had a very similar dream that they were in Ian's truck with him. And they woke up and called each other and were like, oh my gosh, I had a dream about Ian. And the other one was like, oh, me too. And they're like, oh, what it was about? And then it was like

the same thing. They were all like in the truck and doing, you know, it's like, okay, that's weird. first of all. Yeah. But then his sister said, you know, turned to Ian. And Ian turned to her and he was missing his, an eye in the dream. And she was like, oh my God, what is going on? Are you okay? Like, what's happening?

And then he disappeared and reappeared. And he was like smiling and laughing and he had both his eyes. And she was like, okay, that was really weird. And then she shared that with all of us. And we're like, okay, that's very odd because nothing was ever wrong with his eyes. Yeah. And then two days later, his mom sends us a group text and says, I think I know what your dream meant.

And she sent us a picture. And it was a certificate thanking Ian for his generous donation of his corneous. That gives me, you've told me this story before, and it gives me chills every single time I hear it. It's like it literally just floors me because Ian was an organ donor and we knew that. very clearly like we went through that process and we were made aware of the different organs he was able to donate but no one ever said anything about his eyes to us until we got that certificate in the mail so it's not like a thought that would have been going on in either of

their minds anyone's minds yeah yeah it's like that is not a coincidence no it's not a coincidence and it's just that's such a special like I mean for Ali like Sorry, you didn't have that heartwarming. Yours wasn't exactly heartwarming. I was more like a little terrifying. Like you were trying, you were being killed almost in the calf. Yeah. But yeah, for that, it's like, you know, when dreams, sometimes dreams, I truly think mean nothing.

And other times, whether it be like the Hex Valley thing or that thing with that dream with Ian involved. It's just though there's something to dreams, I think, at least some of them that we don't understand and then later put the pieces together and sometimes it's really special for Ali I'm glad you've survived I'm like not to take away your story but yeah yeah that was a really cool story and it also made me want to go to South Africa even more than I already want to go to to Hex Valley no oh just because of the life changing just South Africa yeah she did make a it seem like a very beautiful experience despite what happened despite that one night yeah All right, I have my last trail tale of the episode, and this one is titled Trouble on Mount Katodin.

Oh, kind of near home. Yeah. Hi, my name is Lauren, and I'm a fairly new listener of the pod. A friend recently recommended I listened to your episode on the Jenny Lake Rangers, and after that, it was game over. I binged every episode. You two are amazing and have done such a nice job with the pod. I also went to UNH, so I get excited when you talk about New Hampshire. Home sweet home.

Anyways, every time I listen to the Trail Tales episode, I am reminded of a rather terrifying hiking experience I had in early October of 2020. My parents planned a hike up Mount Katodin in Baxter State Park, which, for anyone who doesn't know, is the tallest peak in the state of Maine at 5,269 feet and is part of the Appalachian Trail. It was kind of a last minute trip, but I had a few days off of work and so did my older brother, so we decided to join. I was 22 years old at the time and my brother was 26. The four of us made the journey from Massachusetts to bum fuck Maine. I mean, most of Maine can be categorized as that. So you're not wrong. And got ourselves ready for the hike, which I knew nothing about.

Because the trip was last minute, I didn't get around to doing any research other than what my parents told me until we were already on our way. Fortunately, I'm like my dad, which means I'm a preparer, so I have. had more than enough layers, water, and fuel packed for the short trip. The hike is very strenuous, no matter which trail you choose, and features steep rock faces and a lot of scrambling. That all sounds fine, but the headlines about recent rescues and deaths definitely made me nervous. Just a week before someone had fallen from knife-edged trail, highly recommend a YouTube search on the trail if you're unfamiliar, and was seriously injured, and another hiker had a medical emergency and also required a helicopter rescue. In fact, there was a record high number of rescues that had taken

place that season, which is not what you want to read before you start climbing. We had done a lot of hiking growing up and are generally active people. Fortunately, I was pretty deep in marathon training at the time, so that gave me some peace of mind physically, but are by no means pros. We got to the trailhead early in the morning and we were greeted by a park ranger who gave us the lowdown on the hike and asked a bunch of questions, almost like a test, to make sure we were ready for what lie ahead. He asked about gear and supplies and made sure we had a turnaround time and sent us on our way. The hike started out lovely. The weather was perfect and we were enjoying each other's company. Soon we could hear the voices of other hikers who were on their way down the trail.

How's the peak? We would ask them. And we got the same response from everyone. Oh, we turned around a tree line. They said the weather was brutal and it was. it was now snowing and we would see for ourselves when we got off there. So we trekked on. As soon as we reached the tree line, we were met with intense 60 mile per hour winds, snow whipping around, poor visibility and freezing temperatures. My parents immediately said hell no, and turned around, but my brother and I decided to climb up on the rungs on the first rock just to see what it was like. We had intentions of turning around, but told our parents that we would either catch up with them on the trail or meet them back at the car.

Climbing up that first rock, my brother and I were laughing at how insane the conditions were. Snow was being blown by such strong gusts and the air temp was so cold. Let's just climb around one more corner, my brother kept saying, and at that point I think we both knew that we were going all the way up. There was another group of hikers in front of us which made us feel a bit more comfortable, but it wasn't long before we passed them and could see nothing but snowy white rocks. The climb was definitely strenuous and the two of us maneuvered and scrambled through tall rocks which helped to block some of the freezing wind. We hydrated and snacked when necessary and continued to be in awe at our surroundings.

Eventually we scrambled up the last large rock and were met with a terrain that looked like it was from a different planet. I'll attach photos. It was flatter but slippery and the white trail markers were hard to find with all the snow. Finally we ran into our first group of hikers. We stopped to chat to these two very friendly older men. men and asked if we were close. No, not really. They had told us that they had run into some other hikers who had been made aware of a body that was at the summit. They spoke pretty casually about it, so I figured someone was injured and awaiting rescue, but that things seemed to be under control.

We trekked on. It wasn't long until we ran into another group of hikers who looked extremely upset. They too spoke of a body at the peak, and apparently nobody had warned them. It was at this point that I realized that the individual at the top of the mountain was not waiting for rescue, but that they were dead. It was incredibly hard to hear this news, especially being so beaten down by the elements, and I began to get really anxious. From there on, every group we pass would say, not sure if anyone told you, but there's a body up there, and my anxiety would heighten. We reached another group of hikers who gave us the same warning, and I asked them the same question I asked everyone else. Are we close? For the first time,

instead of hearing no, I heard, oh yeah, just 200 yards up there. We thanked them, and I froze. I reached out for my brother with tears in my eyes. I was starting to panic. It had been such a treacherous hike getting up there, and I was scared of the reports that we had heard from everyone. He calmed me down and went ahead to scope out the scene. He told me where not to look. We took a couple pictures, even though the visibility was zero, and finally made our way back down the mountain. At the bottom of the mountain, we reunited with my parents who were very happy to see us. My garment clocked in at 10 miles and a little under 7 hours, so they had been waiting for a bit. There was a group of hikers who had just completed the Appalachian Trail and were having a small celebration.

My parents said that they had talked to them for some while while waiting for us, and they were very emotional about what they had discovered on the last part of their journey. The body had already been reported to the park service by some hikers earlier in the day, and they were planning a recovery mission. I later found out that they couldn't recover the body for hours because the conditions were too dangerous for a helicopter. While I chose not to observe, the deceased hiker was described as being ill-equipped

and not wearing proper clothing, especially for the conditions and had likely frozen to death. That could have been anyone at the top of the mountain as things changed so fast and you can quickly become in over your head. It could have been us up there. My brother's hydration pack had leaked, leaving his pack wet, which further exposed him to the cold and also meant he had less water.

Good thing I had extra, and he was wearing wool which stays warm when wet, and had a raincoat packed. I, on the other hand, was just wearing an off-thick Lulu Lemon leggings on my legs, which were not enough to protect me from the cold wind. My butt was literally numb. And when we separated from my parents, we should have taken the map and safety and medical equipment my dad was carrying, but because we had intentions of turning around, we didn't even think to grab them. We are fortunate not to have experienced any major slips or falls or freezing, but it serves as a reminder that you never know what to expect and it's important to prepare for anything. Since the start of the pandemic, there have been so many new hikers out on the trail, which is amazing. This story is a

great reminder that you need to be prepared, especially if you are unfamiliar with the area or the hike. It's important to listen to park rangers and also your own instincts, as so many other hikers did that day when they turned around. I thought I would share one because it's an experience I will never forget, and two, I hope it will help maybe one person be more prepared. My parents want to go back to Katahdin to successfully summit the mountain, but I'm not sure I ever need to do that again. How do you two feel about doing big hikes more than once? I know some people that don't enjoy repeating, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the matter. This story also is meant to deter people from hiking Katadin. It's a great hike, and I hear the views are great when the visibility is better.

My only recommendation is to go in the summer rather than October to avoid such intense weather and buy wind pants. Sorry for the rambling, but thank you for reading and I can't wait to tune in again soon. Happy trails. Well, that's sad all around. I mean, it's a sad story and that someone lost their life in that way. As far as the question, I haven't come across personally a difficult hike or a difficult hike or mountain or whatever that I wanted to do twice. I just, I don't, I just haven't.

Like, I feel really accomplished when I do something. I'm like, great, did it, check. Next. Like, I'm just kind of in the camp of there are so many places to see and so many things to do that doing the same thing several times is kind of taking up an opportunity to do something new. Like, there's not enough time. there's too much out there we got to yeah yeah i have one hike that i want to do again and it's a big

one what which one it's the lafayette it's a franconia lafayette loop in the white mountains i did it once years ago i actually did it for on my birthday yeah but you didn't finish or something no i did i did finish it but the person i had gone with the time daniels heard this story so many times because I have full vented about it. I won't get super into it, but... It's so funny, though. I, oh, boy, an old boyfriend I dated a long time ago, I dragged on this hike for my birthday,

and he was not a hiker at all, and he complained the entire trip, and he, like, faked a lot of injuries to try and get out of it. He wanted to call a helicopter to come rescue him at one point. It was just, like, it was a mess. If you've got to airlift me out. Yeah. He's like, I just remember we're like at the top of, and this hike is beautiful.

If you look up photos of Franconia Ridge Trail in the White Mountains, you're up in the alpine zone. You're on these ridge lines. You can see into Maine and to Vermont. You're just like above everything. And it's beautiful and it's amazing. We had perfect weather. Like we couldn't have asked for better weather. And I just remember one point he asked and he's like he had just pretended to twist his ankle, which he didn't.

But he asked if we could call search and rescue. if a helicopter would just come take him off. And he wasn't kidding. It wasn't like a joke. It was a very serious inquiry. Yeah. It was a very serious inquiry. And I loved the hike so much.

And I just would really like to go back and do it in a way that I really enjoyed because I was with. My experience was kind of taken away from me because there was such negative energy going on at the time. So I would really love to do it again, like either alone or with someone else who would like to do. it and just really experience it in a way that I was hoping to the first time. That's fair. Yeah. That's very fair. So I guess, yeah, it depends.

I mean, there are certain hikes that I've done that I like to do again. Like, you know, the first time I did Harry's Ridge Trail, Ian and I did it. And I loved it so much. And then we are planning on doing it. Yeah. I mean, by the time this comes out, we'll have done it. We'll have done it. But, yeah, as far as like real hard ones, like,

Katadden. I don't know. I would love to do Katadden personally. I feel like I'm surprised for some reason that you haven't. I think it's just because of how far it is from us is the reason why I haven't. It's true. It's kind of a haul. It's so far in Northern Maine. I would love, love, love to do it. But even this trail, I don't know if I would have kept going after I heard that someone had passed up there. Especially with the conditions being what they were. conditions, yeah. I think that that was obviously this person writing in learned a lot from their experience and that they weren't prepared. And I would imagine maybe next time that they wouldn't knowing those conditions. So it's definitely a lesson. But the conditions, especially like any mountains, really, they can change so fast. And if you're seeing the snow and if you're seeing these really bad

winds, it's such an important lesson to turn around. Yeah, well, it reminds me of the story we shared. I think it was the Patreon one that we did last about the pigeon on Mount St. Helens. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like that, that woman had, it was her dream to summit St. Helens. Flew from out of state to do it, like prepared, spent all these years preparing, and then, you know, right almost at the top, like, had to make the decision to turn around because it wouldn't have been safe. And it's a heartbreaking decision, but sometimes you have to make them. Yeah. I did that I had one hike that I can think of just off the top of my head where I turned around and I was really bummed about. And I was with a friend of mine and we were trying, we were working on the 4,000 footers in New Hampshire, the 48 4,000 footers. And we were up one of the tri pyramids. And it had been really rainy. And there's one section that is referred to as the slide because it's almost completely vertical. You're like half rock climbing. up this area and it was so wet and it was just like really not good conditions the weather had changed

and we were halfway up this like rock slide and we're like we can't keep going this is really sketchy and we turned around and even going down was really scary and to this day i don't think it was a bad decision yeah i'm just bummed i didn't get to finish it so i guess that's another one i didn't finish that one so that's another one i would want to do to go back and do yeah yeah well Like I said, there's just, I just feel like there's so much to do. Yeah. So I'm just kind of like, okay, next. Yeah.

I guess the tri-p pyramid, that one is, if I ever want to complete all the 4,000 footers, I have to do it because I never finished it. Which one were we on? Musilock. No, Musilock was the bear. Oh, yeah. The wind that we dragged. Poor Netea was like. Pierce.

Mount Pierce. Oh, my God. The wind was so bad. at the top. And Nataya, like, yeah, God bless you, girlfriend. I know she was like, okay, yeah, I guess I'll go on a hike with you. And then we like, drag her up Mount Pierce. And then we're like, we're at the top, yay. And it's like, you could barely even talk. You have to shout at the person next to you. It was a beautiful day besides the wind, though. And I mean, it was fun. But yeah, the wind was rough. Okay. Well, that was a long one. That was a long one. That was a long.

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