National Park After Dark - Trail Tales 2

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

We asked, you delivered. Welcome to our second Trail Tale episode where we share stories from you – to you! Our mix of stories today include personal tragedies, animal attacks and otherworldly experiences. Thank you to everyone who submitted a story – keep them coming! All stories shared with the permission of submitting partiesWe love our National Parks and we know you do too but when you're out there, remember to enjoy the view but watch your back. Please take a moment to rate and subscribe from wherever you’re listening to NPAD! Become part of our Outsider family on Patreon to gain access to ad-free episode, bonus content and more. Follow our socials Instagram, Facebook , and Twitter. To share a Trail Tale, suggest a story, access merch and browse our book recommendations - head over to our website.  Thank you so much to our partners, check them out! Apostrophe: Save $15 off your first visit with a board-certified dermatologist at apostrophe.com/NPAD June's Journey: Download June's Journey for free on the Apple App Store or Google Play Prose:  Get a free in-depth hair regimen and 15% off your first custom hair care order at prose.com/NPAD Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Close your eyes. Focus. Listen to work getting done with Monday.com. Relax. As AI does the manual work, while your teams are aligned on a single source of truth. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform, so flexible and intuitive, it feels like it was built just for you. Notice you're limitless.

Limitless. Now open your eyes. Go to Monday.com. Start for free and finally. Breathe. Girl, winter is so last season. And now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders.

That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope? It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Welcome back everyone to National Park After Dark. I'm Danielle. And I'm Cassie. We're starting this week's

episode on a little bit of a more somber note. I think we've all been following Gabby Petito's case very closely. If you haven't heard of it, she is a van lifer who was out exploring all the national parks across the country with her boyfriend and she went missing while he returned home to Florida. Recently, we did record an introduction to bring information about her case to help keep an eye out for her. About 20 minutes ago, we did receive confirmation that her body was found in the Grand Teton's. Cassie and I originally recorded our episode on Wednesday. We had an introduction with the information that we had at hand at that moment at that time about this case, but we wanted to come back on and kind of redo the intro a little bit just to give the most accurate and up-to-date information

that we can. So we're recording this, like Cassie said, Sunday afternoon, right after the live conference where the FBI and National Park Service came on and said, while they cannot confirm 100% that the body found in the Grand Teton area is Gabby, they do say that, you know, they do say our condolences to the Petito family, et cetera. So at this point, we, we, are assuming that this is Gabby, and that's why we wanted to come on and bring that new information to everybody. At this point in time, Brian is still missing. Brian has fled, and he is thought to be around the area of the Carlton Reserve in Florida. If you have any information on where he might be, or if you've seen him, please contact authorities, because at this time, he is prime suspect,

I imagine. I mean, he took off. He got a lawyer, and now he fled. I think he certainly has something to do with this case. And if you have any information, that's, please contact authorities at this point. We just want to say our biggest condolences to her family. I mean, I think we were all hit pretty hard with this. She was out doing something she loved, fan life. It's something a lot of people are trying to do. I mean, shit, I have a bus with my partner, you know, and national park trips are the dream. And this happened to her. And I think we're all really, really heartbroken for her family right now and for what happened. Yeah. And we've had a lot of people contact us, message us, tweet at us, comment at us about this case and whether we've seen this or that

detail or why haven't we spoken about it yet or what are our theories, et cetera, et cetera. And while we can understand that, we do host a podcast about missing people and people who have passed away within the National Park system. I understand. We understand that. But this case is so it's unfolding as, you know, every single day there's new information, different information. There is real time grieving family and friends going on right now and it's still an active and ongoing situation. And we don't feel that it's our place to speculate and to give our opinions on what we think may have happened, why, how, etc. And while we all have our theories and thoughts, I think that on such a public platform, it's not our place to say anything or elaborate on anything until we have all of the information.

That being said, though, we have no intentions of ever doing a podcast episode on this. We want to give her family the time to grieve and the privacy to grieve. We're not going to make a show about it while they're in the midst of grieving. and we hope that when you are all on social media and you're seeing all these comments that instead of speculating what you think might have happened or your thoughts and theories, just send your condolences to her family because these are, like Danielle said, these are real grieving people and we really feel for them right now. So we're going to give them their privacy and we're just going to send a lot of hope and prayers

their way and that they get closure and they find out what really happened here. And as everything unfolds more with Brian, then we will be sure to, to post articles and factual information. But as far as hearing us debate back and forth about our theories of what led up to it, what their relationship was like, what happened, et cetera, I think that this is going to be the first and only time we kind of address that on the podcast. But I know that everyone who has sent those messages to us is doing it not maliciously in any way and we're not upset or trying to, you know, shame any of that.

because like I said before, this is the content of our podcast. But a lot of the stories that we do are much older and not happening hour by hour. We're not live reporters. We have nothing to do with the official case. So we don't feel like this is our place to really dive deep into it. So as far as we stand right now, we are so, so sorry to the Petito family. And I think that's it. I guess kind of going into stories that are really close to home for this episode, we're going to be diving into these stories that our listeners are very close to and they sent in themselves. So this whole episode today is going to be a series of stories from our listeners. So these stories are also very close to our heart. This episode is brought to you by Prime.

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Watch only on Prime. So, with that being said, we have some stories to share with you today. And who's going first? I think you should go first, right? Yeah, sure, why not? Hey there, so I only just discovered y'all when your Mount St. Helens episode popped up on my recommended list on Apple Podcasts. When I saw that you had an episode about The Stanley, I got so excited.

I worked at the Stanley as a manager for the coffee shop in the lower level of the main building from fall of 2017 to late 2018. I seriously miss it every single day. For me, there is warmth and glimmer and comfort at the Stanley that is literally unparalleled. I know exactly why spirits decide to stick around there. I wanted to share a few stories that I have. Funny enough, I used to be terrified of the Stanley and thought I would never step foot in it.

As a kid, anything and everything paranormal was petrifying. Whenever my family would visit Rocky Mountain National Park, I always made a point that I did not want us to even drive up to the Stanley for a closer look. It wasn't until I was 20 years old and dating a horror movie enthusiast that I finally went inside. And lo and behold, at the age of 24 and desperate for a job without a huge commute, I started working there. On my third day at the job, I was scheduled for training on how to open the cafe. It was early October and at 6 a.m., the sun hadn't risen yet over the valley. I parked my car, got out, and started walking towards the main building, when all of a sudden, a small, wispy, translucent, amorphous, whitish, blobby-looking thing

darted out in front of me and promptly disappeared into thin air. It bounded like a small animal and it was clear as day. Even though I know it happened in the literal blink of an eye, it was just so real. I don't know how else to describe it, but it was as real as me sitting here looking at my computer. It wasn't like seeing something out of the corner of my eye or mistaking a distant shape for something else. It was so vivid and occurred right in front of me, a mere feet away. I literally stopped in my tracks and looked around the parking lot to see if any car had their headlights on, or if anyone else was around, or maybe some kid was shining a flashlight from one of the windows.

but there was nothing. It was before the break of dawn and I was completely alone. That was actually the experience that really cured me of my perpetual fear of ghosts, because it wasn't scary at all. I actually remember laughing to myself in excitement and disbelief and felt so happy and welcomed. At the time, I had no idea that Comanche, the ghost of the cat, even existed, and I didn't know that there was a pet cemetery on the grounds either. It wasn't until a few weeks into my employment when I was chatting with one of the tour guides, she offhandedly mentioned a resident ghost cat that I figured out who I had come across on my third day. It might sound dumb, but I really hold that whole experience very near and dear to my heart. A lot of the staff members at the

Stanley will tell you that most everyone gets hazed by ghosts when they're first start working at the hotel. It's funny because I've been close with animals my entire life, and at the time I was living alone with my three dogs and four cats. I like to think that Comanche sought me out intentionally. Later on in my employment, one of the tour guides told me about a child spirit who liked to hang out in the concert hall and was perpetually fond of playing bouncy ball. Even though I believe in the paranormal, I still go out of my way to debunk things. And I thought that the reason behind this ghost kid tossing bouncy balls back and forth with other staff members was probably just a result of the old, wonky, and uneven original hardwood flooring. So I tested it out for myself.

and I was really surprised. I didn't see an apparition like I had with Comanche, but I could feel a giggly like child presence. And sure enough, when I tossed the bouncy ball across the floor, it would always come back directly to me. A couple of times I saw it literally freeze and change directions to come back my way. And I'm going to summarize the rest of the email because it's very long, but she goes on to say a couple of things about different odd occurrences in the Stanley that she was always correcting guests about, like lights being motion sensitive or not, or why sinks would turn on and off automatically, quote unquote, automatically when they're not automatic at all, just different things like that. And then she did mention, remember when that bear made news

because he just walked into the lobby of the Stanley? Yes, I do. Yeah, she was there. Oh, cool. That's funny. I know exactly the cafe she's talking about because I got a coffee there the last time I was visiting Rocky Mountain with my mom. We just got grabbed a coffee and sat down. It was in October. It was before. Maybe right after her time. Yeah, 2019. So just missed you. And then she closes out by saying, few, okay, sorry for the novel. I just really love the Stanley and I've been feeling incredibly homesick recently. Thank you for covering it on your podcast. You really did it justice and it was a pleasure to listen to. Cheers, Aaron. That's so nice. I love those stories. Thanks, Aaron. I really loved it especially not only because we covered the Stanley, but there's just something about a hotel, as you know now.

I just really love old hotels. They're such a charm and feeling about them and just that they've seen so much and been a part of so many lives in some way. And the Stanley is obviously the epitome of that. So to hear from someone that had experiences there is really cool. Yeah, I love her stories. I have never had a paranormal experience. And as I've kind of stated before, I am also afraid of ghosts. But I feel like her experiences would have been fun for me.

I wouldn't have been terrified in that. And just between the cat and the child, that's so cool. All right, what do you got? All right, we'll go into my story. Yours was very lighthearted. We're going to go into one, which is not as lighthearted as yours and is pretty sad. this story is going to take place in Sawaro National Park. And I just wanted to talk about the park a little bit like we do in our normal episodes before we go into our listener story.

Sawaro National Park is located in southeastern Arizona. They see just about over one million visitors every single year. The park is over 92,000 acres and has two separate areas, the Tucson Mountain District and the Rinkin Mountain District. This park protects a lot of different flora and fauna native to the area, including giant sauro cactuses. Both districts of the park contain parts of the Sonoran desert, which covers part of Arizona, California, and Mexico. It is the hottest desert in all of Mexico. While December through March, the weather here is mild with temperatures between 40 to 75 degrees Fahrenheit. The summers are exceptionally hot. Often the temperatures will reach over 100 degrees

Fahrenheit, especially between May and October. Summer can also bring extreme storms of rain, lightning, dust storms, and flash flooding to the area. Popular activities inside of this park are hiking, bicycling, and horseback riding. And to go on to our email that we received from our listener, he says, kind of random, but after listening to episode 11, which was our episode on Carl's Bad Cavern with the dehydration story. I just felt compelled to share the story about my brother Brad. I just figured it could be helpful to any inexperienced hikers that might be planning a desert trip in the near future.

Feel free to share if you ever do another episode on dehydration or scary desert stories. My brother Brad was 34 years old when he died of dehydration in Sawaro National Park. We were best friends and two avid lovers of the outdoors. My brother and I shared a special bond, especially when it came to the outdoors. We planned to visit every national park together, and the last time I spoke to him, we were planning to hike the Appalachian Trail together.

My brother was home in the outdoors. It was his place, and Brad was a very experienced hiker. He was living in Chicago at the time, and called to tell me he was going on a work trip to Tucson, Arizona, and had planned to do this hike in the Sawaro National Park called the Gould Mine Trail. It was around an eight-mile round-trip hike. He was the most experienced hiker that I knew at

the time and he told me before he left that he had a couple of maps on him and was planning on taking off sometime in the morning. Brad had set out for the hike on Saturday, May 27th, 2017. Starting at the beginning of the trailhead, it was documented that he checked into the park and signed into the trailhead registry stamped for 9 a.m. I believe the hike was supposed to take around three to four hours. The trail actually leads up to the top of this mountain where you can get a nice panoramic view of the park. When he reached the summit, he had actually attempted to FaceTime my mom, which she answered for a brief second before they lost connection, considering he wasn't in a place that had service, but assuming he might catch a signal at the top

of the mountain. As far as we knew, he was just calling to say hi, but I guess we'll never know for sure. And this was the last time anyone heard from him. On Sunday the 28th, we got the news that the head ranger, Ray O'Neill and another ranger, recovered his body where he was suspected of dying of dehydration. Fast forward about four months. I was desperate to find answers so I arranged to meet up with Ray so I could back hike the trail to where his body was found by a young French couple, who to this day, I've never been able to track down. Ray kindly drove over an hour out of his way to meet with me and my friend John and showed us where he was. And that was when we found out the details of how he had passed. The first mistake Brad made after listening to the Rangers was just

simply that he was from out of town. Apparently people die every single year in Soarro, and almost all of them are from out of state. He proceeded to tell me that it's common for people who are from out of state to experience severe dehydration or even death, because people that are not from desert climates are not acclimated to the climate there. He had told me that they suggest that all out-of-state visitors be sure to take at least two to three days to give your body time to acclimate to the climate. The reason being is that people that are not from the desert climates don't tend to sweat. as much. He then told me that an acclimated body will tend to sweat profusely, which acts as a natural cooling unit for the body. Your sweat cools your skin and helps in regulating your body

temperature. This is a problem for out-of-state hikers. Being in dry climates, your natural instinct when you sweat a lot is to naturally tell your brain to drink more water. And if you're not sweating that much, your brain can get confused based on the false signals of your body, which can begin to send you into a state of dehydration. Second, when you're not sweating as much, it's typically an indicator that the sun is just sucking whatever water you do have or are drinking right out of your body. In addition to that, another sign to watch out for is how much water you're drinking in extreme heat. If you're not peeing and drinking lots of water, keep drinking. When he was recovered, it was discovered that he had a large gash on his forehead and blood on his Ohio state hat. Where he was

found was right at the fork of a trail. After he had fallen and hit his head, most likely because of being dehydrated, he probably put his hat back on and continued until he reached the fork of the trail. When I got the chance to see the actual spot, the ranger told me that they found his pack with an empty camel back which held three liters of water. His third and final mistake is something that every hiker should know. When he had originally checked into the park and signed the trail log at 9 a.m. That was the exact time that the ranger told me is when all hikers should typically check out due to heat. Lastly, the most important thing on my mind is that it's important to know that temperatures are always measured in the shade because the shade temperature is the true air temperature.

When my brother was pronounced dead at 2.32 p.m., the rangers estimated the actual temp with the heat index to be around 120 degrees Fahrenheit. I'll end with this, a letter of sorts, I wrote on my Instagram when I spread his ashes off of Half Dome in Yosemite in 2018. Hope this finds you well and rest easy that it is truly a noble thing to die doing what you love. And nobody loved the outdoors more than my brother, Brad. Today, I was able to say goodbye to my brother. Ten years ago next month, we took our first trip out west to Yosemite National Park. At the time, I don't think either of us realized just how it would shape our future.

For me, it was kind of not too serious, but love for the idea of the outdoors. For Brad, it was much more. When I first decided to through hike the Pacific Crest Trail, I was going through his computer and came across an old video of the two of us climbing the cables of Hapdome. In the video, I was filming and I panned the camera towards Brad, where he was just staring up at these cables that climbed over 400 feet straight up the east face of Hapdome. He said, this is the most amazing thing I've ever seen in my life. I know now that it was for both of us. Brad was planning on retiring at 39, and before he died,

he told me that he wanted to get some land in Alaska and stake a claim. I used to joke around with him about it, but I think he was honestly looking into it. Alaska, Machu Picchu, and a through hike. Those were next on his list. Well, last June, my parents spread a piece of him into Nali National Park, a month after he died. Next year, the family is planning on spreading a piece of him at his favorite lake that is only accessible by my uncle's property, a mile outside of the east entrance of Yellowstone National Park. My brother Tyler is planning on spreading a piece of him on the Appalachian Trail. And now, after walking almost a thousand miles, I'm back to where our journey began together 10 years ago, at the base of these cables. I know now, Brad, in my heart, you can be at peace for you

and for me. But our last adventure together only ends at the Canadian border. All the best. Ben. Wow. That's really tough. Yeah. The story really touched my heart a lot. Mainly I feel so sad for that situation and how close they were. And thank you for sharing that story with us. When we talk further in email, he said that he wanted to share his brother's story because he wanted it to be a learning lesson for other people. So this doesn't happen to other people. So spreading his story and making you aware of what happened to him might save someone else's life. So that was why he wanted us to share it today with all of you. It also strikes a chord with me a lot because I almost lost my partner to dehydration last year. It's a really serious thing. I mean, you can joke and I know we've probably

all joked him and like, oh, I'm dehydrated. But if you're dehydrated, your organ shut down. You're in the hospital. My partner last year, he got heat stroke, wrapped in myelosis. He passed out and wake up for over 12 hours and then his organ shut down and he was in the hospital for over a month. He didn't recover for four months and I was really lucky and fortunate that he did. But hearing his story and what could have happened really strikes a chord with me personally. And I think it's such a great lesson for all of us to learn, especially if you are planning to go to the desert. Danielle and I were just in the badlands and we were even out there like, okay, we can't go too far. We don't have enough water with us. And we felt the.

heat and we ended up turning around before finishing the trail we were on because of it. And it's just, it is a really important lesson. And we really like that then highlighted the mistakes that were made. So then other people can see and be aware of how you need to prepare for these. Well, I especially love how he, he did highlight the mistakes, but he also made sure to mention several times that his brother was an avid outdoorsman. This wasn't his first rodeo. And I think a lot of us can get somewhat comfortable in our abilities when it's like, I've done this trail, or I've been in this type of environment, or whatever the case may be, I'm not saying that we should always be on high alert and preparing for a dire emergency every time

we step out onto a trail because that would take away some of the magic of it. However, this story kind of serves as a little bit of a grounding experience to just kind of reflect on things that could happen to you because, I mean, it happened to his brother and it can happen. It's happened to a lot of us. So I really hope that I really hope that you guys got something out of that because we definitely did. And touching kind of on what you said with him being an experienced hiker at the beginning of the story, he said he told him exactly where he was going to be his hike, what time he planned to leave. He had water with him. He was experienced and this still happened. So he did a lot of things right. and there were a couple mistakes that ended up being really horrible.

And like we kind of said, and how he wants is this just to be a lesson for everybody and to spread the word of his brother, we all love the outdoors. We all want to be safe out there. It's very much appreciated that you shared that with us and wanted to share your brother's story. It sounds like the world lost a really amazing person that day. And we're glad you got out on the through hike and your family is doing such beautiful things in his memory. Okay, so my next story actually takes place abroad. Hey girls, love the podcast and was even more excited to learn you were veterinary technicians to boot.

I'm a veterinarian. I did my PhD research. I'm also a disease ecologist in Kruger National Park looking at FIV immunity and co-infections in African Lions and work there on and off for eight years. As far as stories from Kruger National Park, there are a lot of them. Some possibly more myth. some definitely true about animal encounters as well. Kruger National Park is the largest national park in South Africa and is trans boundary along the Mozambique and Zimbabwe borders,

with extensions of the park also sharing areas with national parks in those countries. It is about 7,000 miles squared from what I can remember, and comprises an area ranging from jungles, scrub and small bush, and rocky terrain. The park is fenced in around the perimeter to keep out poachers and to try to keep the wildlife in from surrounding settlements, though the animals mostly view the fence as optional. A lot of the lions we were capturing to collect samples from would just pop over the other side of the fence.

Well, within the park, the tourists are actually the ones fenced in. In order to hike, you have to arrange a guide. But otherwise, you will see the park from a vehicle so that the animals can roam freely without disturbance. It is home to the Big Five, who normally go about their business. The only places they tend to overlap too much with humans on foot is in the staff villages, where people can walk outside of fences, although the houses do have low fences to slow down predators. And when you are outworking in the field, as staff, you can roam freely.

The main town where staff live is called Skakuza, which is towards the mid-southern region of the park. It houses a couple of thousand staff and also has a tourist camp attached that houses visitors. The tourist camp is heavily fenced, and the only animals typically inside the camp are wart hogs, which will dig under the fences, and vervet monkeys, and occasionally baboons who take advantage of the food within the camps. The three definite animal attacks I know of did not happen in the tourist camp, but rather the staff village. As most staff live there year-round, you can imagine that we know it's a constant risk, but you also have to live there, so you go about your normal life. This first one happened about five years prior to me starting work, and I don't know too many details, but from what the people there at the time said, I know that a woman was out running in the staff village. Like I said, the houses are fenced, but humans in larger fauna wander the streets together. And she was attacked and killed by a leopard who carried her up a tree in front of the church and cashed her.

The second one, which is even sadder, although they are all sad and horrific, was actually one of my colleagues, little boys, who was walking to the school with his friends and had forgotten something at home. So he turned back on his own to get it and was attacked and killed by a leopard. I believe they were able to recover his body fairly quickly because they were onlookers. The last, which is the most personal to me, was my friend Jacques. Jacques was an avid outdoorsman, albeit an adrenaline junkie. He had been born and raised within the park and was used to living alongside wildlife. As an adult, he spent about six months a year working as a commercial driver, and the other six months he lived in the park helping with various conservation projects, most notably river health surveys and crocodile health surveys, as he was an avid fisherman and spent most of his time on, in, or near the water.

It sounds weird, and it definitely comes across as a Toron moment if you haven't lived in the park. But one of the common things in the park for young people to do is float and swim in shallow water where you can see the body. so that you know you aren't near a crocodile or a hippo. Needless to say, Jacques was used to the water and where animals hung out versus where it was safe. Him and another friend got in a competition to retrieve golf balls at the bottom of the lake, something that they did for the golf club park service all the time, and in an area that was shallow and known to be free of large crocodiles, who normally didn't frequent that lake due to the lack of prey.

Despite being in shallow water in a safe spot, they didn't see the crock swim up, It grabbed Jacques and pulled him underwater. The friend in the water was able to get to safety, but him and the other friends on shore watched in horror as he never resurfaced. I was in the US at the time and received a call with the information as to what happened at about 10 p.m. as Jacques was my best friend in South Africa, and our research team was among the first to know, as the Rangers that normally help us with captures had to cancel to go retrieve his body. When they found him, the crocodile had stashed him on a bank of the golf course and was defending his body. Sadly, they had to shoot it to get his body back.

They normally don't destroy animals in Kruger because you know these things are done at your own risk. Jacques would have hated that they shot it. He dedicated his life to helping crocodiles. My PhD advisor, who was also a vet, did the necropsy and apparently the Crocs had parasitic pneumonia and was slowly starving to death from some injuries sustained from bigger. crocodiles. We also have a man eating pride that we've worked with. That's more up in the air because we haven't actually caught them with human remains, but we have caught them on trail cameras stalking human refugees from Mozambique, following one particular telephone line into South Africa

as they try to escape across the park and a lot of human belongings have been found in that area. Again, they don't destroy them because humans aren't supposed to be on foot within the park. Anyways, those are my stories. Keep up the good work. Heather. Wow. Thank you, Heather, for sharing those stories, especially since you were close to multiple people involved in them. That's horrific and horrible and really sad. I particularly liked, it's hard to point out things that you like within a story like this with this type of tone. But again, she took time to highlight the fact that he knew the park. And he was born and raised there and was well aware of the risks associated with doing certain activities there. And unfortunately, this just happened. And he would have hated that the crocodile

was shot and killed because of it and that he dedicated his life to crocodile research. I mean, I think it's really difficult for us, especially when we did the Lions of Savo episode. It's so easy to sit here in our living room in the lower 48 and say, like, what were you thinking? Like, why did you put yourself in a position where you could be eaten by a lion or a leopard or whatever it was? But life is just so different there. And like she said, I mean, you know the risks, but you have to go about your life. Like, what are you going to do? Like, lock yourself in a room all day for the rest of your life. Like, it's not realistic. It's not realistic. And I don't know. I just, that was a very cool story. Just coming from another person in the veterinary world, that's awesome to hear

and how it tied into something that we've covered. And we're really sorry to hear about your friend shock. But again, another thing that I think a lot of times it's easy to assume when you hear a story or read a story, especially if it's just a headline. She said this is like a Toron's moment, just looking from the outside in. And I agree. Like, If we just saw the brief SparkNotes version of like man in a river getting golf balls gets taken by a crock, it's like, well, why were you in a river? Or why were you in that lake with large crocodiles around? But we didn't know the details, you know? Yeah, there's more to the story there.

I also thought it was really interesting that after they did the necropsy that it showed he was starving. And there was something going on with this alligator, which I think is a common theme with a lot of these animal attacks. that we have talked about like Night of the Grizzlies, that bear had been having was emaciated and had a lot of stuff going on. And I think that that's a common factor in animal attacks. Yes. Oh, my God. Speaking of, okay, total side note, but it's so relevant. So I just got this book or got this book lent to me. It's called Fuzz by Mary Roach. I love this author. And I think a lot of people do too based on your messages. So it's all about human. wildlife conflict and human behavior and wildlife biology. And it's all about animal attack forensics,

which is just, I mean, you know that I've been looking into grad school for wildlife forensics. And this is just like so up my alley. And I just really am super interested in that, that underlying factor that you said, like there is a commonality in almost every single animal attack story we've shared that there is something either physically or cognitive cognitive cognitive cognitively that's so hard to say cognitively cognitively wrong you know it's not a young healthy animal in a lot of cases so anyways if you want more in-depth discussion about all that the lines of saba we kind to get into it a bit. But anyways, thank you, Heather, for sharing such personal stories. I guess we'll go into our next listener's story here. We're going to switch up the tune a little bit,

and we have an alien story. Oh, my God. Yes. I was like, well, I'm starting to get depressed. Like, should we keep going? I know. We have so many sad stories that people have written in. This one is not sad. We'll switch up the pace a little bit. Hey, ladies, I believe in the paranormal, and I believe in aliens, especially after my experience. I do have a sixth sense. I've seen ghosts. I've gotten messages from dead relatives before through my dreams. I've cleansed a house before, which was pretty scary.

And I've explored around at night in cemeteries and actually heard something that made my friends and I all run away quick. What's her name? Can I DM her? She sounds really cool. I know. I think you guys would go along very well. Anyway, I have a story to tell you,

and it's up to you guys if you believe me or not. I was living in Salinas, California at the time, and I was a sophomore in high school. My parents' living room had this huge window that looked out into our backyard. Right next to the window, outside, on the patio, there was this round table with a huge face on it that had those decorative sticks sticking out of it. That was the very first thing you saw when you looked out into the backyard. I was running super late to school that morning, so I grabbed my keys to my car and my backpack and ran outside. When I started my car and got ready to back up out of the driveway, I realized I was missing my bus. biology book. I forgot to grab it from the couch and biology was the first and longest class of my day,

so I really needed it. I remembered, I turned my car off, and I ran to the front door. I stuck my key into it and unlocked it, pushed it open, and looked up towards the window. Every time I get to this part, I get the chills. I remember clear as day. I looked up and I saw the short, maybe three foot tall, gray, big head, huge black eyes, thin body, super long, thin arms, holding up the the vase that was on the table. It turned and looked at me, dropped the vase, and took off. It literally ran and jumped over my parents super high fence with like one hop and disappeared. I stood there in shock. Like what the hell did I just see? My dog who was also in the backyard at the time was barking like crazy. I slowly crept up to the window and sure enough, the vase was

in pieces. I ran into the garage and let my dog inside and she also seemed super shaken up. I ran to my mom's room and asked her if she heard anything break outside, and she said, yeah, but it was probably a cat and knocked something. I said, no, it wasn't a cat. I don't even know what that was. It didn't even look like anything human-like or animal-like. My mom is your typical Hispanic mom, and she said that it was the devil and that I needed to behave. I got that.

I never made me laugh. I got annoyed and grabbed my book and sped off to school. My best friend and I were in the same computer class and she noticed that there was something off about me. I told her what happened and she said, I totally believe you. I've never seen you so shook up before. Her dad and her are big time believers in UFOs. Apparently there has been a couple sightings of flying saucers and weird stuff in the city of Salinas.

My best friend's dad and my bestie saw a UFO hovering in the sky above their house. He was using his binoculars and saw it. I think it came out in the news since a lot of people were seeing it. Because of this incident, I was scared of anything UFO related. I have another story. I was in the army and my soldier and I were driving on Edwards Air Force Base at around 10 to 11 p.m. It was pitch black outside. I was driving about 55 miles per hour and my soldier said,

Hey, Sergeant, look at those lights in the sky. They've been keeping up with us. Sure enough, I look up and see these weird different color lights keeping up with me. It didn't look like a helicopter or drone or anything like that. that. It was flying pretty smooth, too. After a couple minutes, I see the light make a small dip, and then disappear. It never came back, and I didn't see any more lights in the sky after that. I believe aliens and other things are out there, just chilling and conducting random experiments and studying us, and one day it'll be like that movie, the day the Earth stood still,

especially since they see everything and how bad us humans don't take care of the Earth and get rid of us and start over again. Stupid Torons especially. Thank you, guys for being so entertaining. My fiancé and I listen to your podcast. My fiance and I learned some cool new and helpful facts. Stay weird and aliens exist. Hell yeah. What's her name? Danielle. Well, that explains it all. Well, he's meant to be, Danielle. Danielle, thank you. That was awesome. That's a no thank you for me. To see an alien that close? Yes. I want to see a UFO. I don't want to see it in my taking up my decorative sticks or whatever the hell, she said. Yeah, I thought that that was really cool to actually see one in person. I totally believe you. At the beginning, she said,

believe it or not, I believe you, 1,000 percent. Aliens totally exist. There's UFOs out there. And to have a UFO story on top of that story, you're taking up all the UFO stories for Danielle over here, who hasn't seen one yet. Well, I'm telling you, this is my theory. That little alien that you saw in years before in your yard, it's got fucking tabs on you now. And it's tracking you and watching you throughout your life. That's what that was following you. Have you ever thought about that?

She's like, I'm afraid of aliens and you're like, yeah, it's stalking you. I like her theory that it's going to come, that aliens are going to come and scoop up all of the torons. I like that theory. There we go. Don't touch the bison and aliens going to abduct you. Awesome, Danielle. Thank you so much for. for sharing that. I have another listener story that was a little bit on the shorter side. So I wanted to

read this one. It's short, but it's very impactful. This particular listener that wrote into us is from New Milford, Connecticut and went to school down the street from where the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting took place in 2012. And it was a really, really devastating school shooting that was primarily children that were killed. So her email reads, Hey ladies, just finished listening to your first episode, and I'm really looking forward to hearing more. I just wanted to tell you all that I live in New Milford, Connecticut, New England represent.

Hi. Which is only 13 miles from Sandy Hook. I was in math class junior year when the shooting happened. My friend raised her hand in the middle of class and says, My mom just texted me. She said there was a shooting in Sandy Hook. The entire class went silent and looked. at her. Our teacher responded, no phones in class, like any other teacher probably would have said. Within

seconds, the alarms went off. Code blue, this is not a drill. We all went to the back of the classroom with the lights off, the blind shut, and had to just stay there, silent for what felt like in eternity. We stayed in lockdown until after 5 p.m. It was pretty much one of the craziest things I've ever experienced and would never wish that on anyone. Anyways, keep up the good work and thank you for keeping me entertained. Oh, that just gives me chills reading that. I remember exactly when that happened. I was in college and I had friends who were from New Milford, Connecticut. And I remember we set up fundraisers and drives for the families there. And we were to, I cried when I heard about this. So when hearing a story from someone who was physically in that area and was affected by it in a

school. It makes me want to tear up. It's just so sad to think of children in lockdown in a school because of violence like that. Yeah, that's, there are moments that definitely kind of get imprinted. You just know where you were, what you were doing, where you, how you're feeling. And kind of like tragedies like 9-11 that just, we just had the 20th anniversary of. And for this, for like you said, for someone to be kind of wrapped up in it, you don't know what's going on. You know, it's like there was a school shooting. It was so close. Like, is our school next? Like, what's happening? That's terrifying. To be locked down and having to be silent for while all of that's happening. I, they're so sad. And not knowing any details. Like, yeah, horrifying. So my school, we went into lockdown one time and it was because we had a bomb threat at our school.

And we went into lockdown for hours. And we ended up having to leave the school and walk down at. a mile and a half away from our school. And what it was is one of the kids in our class made a fake looking bomb and put it in the bathroom. It wasn't active. There was nothing that it could have ever lit up. It just looked weird. I don't even know what it looked like. I'm guessing it was just like tape around something and they got really nervous. But we ended up having to walk all the way to the elementary school, which was like a mile and a half away. And we were in lockdown. And another time we went into lockdown and we had no idea what it was for we thought that maybe it was a school shooting or it was some type of violent thing and we were in lockdown for hours in our room and had to be

completely silent i remember we had to sit behind this door and hide like down scrunched down and it ended up being an anthrax scare someone had broken open a slide in the biology room and they didn't tell us that so all of us were really nervous that something really horrible was going on in the school. And the anthrax ended up not being live. It was not harmful to anybody. And it was fine. But they didn't tell us for hours that it wasn't an issue of violence or anything. So we were all just thinking the worst for hours. So I can kind of relate, but not really because I've never been, I can't say I can relate to an active school shooting because that's awful. And to actually be locked down when you're getting text messages that

there's a school shooting going on is I can't even matter. imagine that. Yeah. Wow. That one's heavy. Yeah. Well, to brighten it up a little bit, my last one is also about aliens. So we have two alien appearances in our episode today. Cool. What's up, ladies? My name is Max, and I just listened to your episode on the Great Sand Dunes National Park, a place I've spent a good amount of time. I grew up in and went to college in Colorado, and it's in those college days where my story comes from. My Remates and I studied natural resources of some kind, and that, of course, results in a lot of time spent where many never go. One roommate spends every summer hiking to remote lakes in the San Luis Valley region near the sand dunes to survey fish populations. After the summer of 2020, he returned with a wild story. Him and a small group of co-workers were tented up in a highly remote alpine lake. That night, my friend experienced dreams of bright lights and strange figures, and was eventually awoken abruptly. to an intense light hitting the tent from all angles.

Shortly after, one of his co-workers in a nearby tent screamed bloody murder. My friend grabs his protective firearm and rushes outside to find that the unknown light had suddenly disappeared in a matter of seconds, and that his co-worker's tent had a person-sized hole in the side of it. He approaches the tent to find his coworker laying on top of their sleeping bag, sweating profusely in the 35-degree night, staring. into space in terror. After consoling her, she tells my friend of an intense dream which can only be described as a full-blown alien abduction. At that point, every person present explained an eerily

similar dream to my friend of bright lights and strange figures. Due to the fact that they still had a week of work to do out there, they decided it was best to just toss out the events as sleep deprivation and move on. Fun fact, I was looking right at Pike's Peak when you were when y'all mentioned it. And I thought it was, that was fun. While the U-translation of the mountain's name is indeed sun, the actual word is Tava. I always try to use that because fuck a white guy who didn't even climb it, claiming it as his own. Anyways, just found the show today and I really enjoyed it. Keep it up, Max. Damn. That's like a UFO abduction, potentially. There was a hole in the tent and... Well, and everyone was having like those same vivid... Same dream. Yeah, something's

fucking up. You guys got visited, or, you guys. you and your, not you, Max, personally, you're safe, but your friend and all his little group out there or her little group out there, they were all just visited for sure. That's wild. That's so wild. I love hearing these stories because nothing like this has ever happened to me and I'm not sure I want it to, but I do want it to happen to you guys. So I want to go outside right now, stand in my yard and put my hands behind my back and look up into the sky and say, why not me? Something fucking happened to me. Like, I just want to see something.

Something happened to me and me be totally safe and meet some aliens and then come home. Yeah, I just need like a quick little bop into the experience. Kind of like, perfect example, my mountain lion experience. I saw a mountain lion within two feet. I almost hit it with my Jeep. And it was the coolest animal experience I've ever had because it just slowly crossed the road. It was in a really dark, desolate area, dirt road, middle of the night. It just leisurely took its time crossing the road.

I got such a great look at it. And then it was gone. And it was brief. I was in the safety of my own car. And I could just drive away. Like I wasn't like encountering it in the trail. It wasn't attacking me. It wasn't, you know.

Right. Like I just want that. I don't think you get to pick and choose your. alien abduction though. I can put the vibes out though. I can put the vibes out and hopefully maybe they're listening to this podcast and they're like all right Daniel

and they're like okay well yeah probably not you. We have better things to do but okay well anyway, thank you back. We'll choose me because I don't want it. Do you have something like hearted to finish us up? No. You don't? That's all my story.

Okay, well I liked the end. Max's story was great to end on Yeah, I think that was a good ending note there. Awesome. Well, I think this was a success. A lot of varying topics. We learned a lot. We were grounded.

We laughed. Cried. We cried. But hearing from you guys means so much to us. It really does. And we try and get back to all of your emails. I know we've been getting a lot of them. So it's been taking a while for us to return the emails because we have been getting a lot of them.

We are working through them. and we are trying to respond to all of you. So if you haven't gotten a response from us yet, I'm sorry, we are working through it. We so appreciate all of the stories that you all send, and we do read every single one of them. So thank you so much for sending them into us. Keep sending them into us because we want to keep doing episodes like this. Yeah. And if yours was not read, maybe they'll make an appearance on another episode. So thank you again for taking the time to share your personal stories that a lot of you hold really near and dear to your heart. sharing them with us. That's what an honor. So thank you so much. Thank you everyone for tuning in.

As always, enjoy the view. But watch your back. Might be aliens. Definitely. Danielle, I'm talking to you. It's aliens. You're following you. Bye. Thank you so much for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale or story suggestion, send us an email at NPAD podcast at gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at National Park After Dark and on Twitter at NPR. NPAD Podcast. Come hang out with us on Patreon for monthly bonus episodes and exclusive content. For more information on our show, our book recommendations, merch updates, and more. Visit our website at npadpodcast.com.

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