National Park After Dark - Trail Tales 53

Episode Date: August 15, 2024

Today’s stories include woodsy weirdness, prophetic dreams, police run ins, paranormal protection, mountain mishaps and an avalanche survival. Outsiders Only bonus stories available for Patreon and Apple Subscribers!We love our National Parks and we know you do too but when you're out there, remember to enjoy the view but watch your back. Please take a moment to rate and subscribe from wherever you’re listening to NPAD! Become part of our Outsider family on Patreon  or Apple Subscriptions to gain access to ad-free episodes, bonus content, and more. Follow our socials Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. To share a Trail Tale, suggest a story, access merch, and browse our book recommendations - head over to our website.Thank you so much to our partners, check them out!Liquid IV: Use code NPAD at checkout to get 20% off you first order. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Monday AI agents took over my work. And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Monday.com. So they see the full picture, my work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff,

knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress.

Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Hi everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. Another trail tales for you today. What's going on in your life? Anything fun and special and exciting? In my life? I'm going to a wedding this weekend. Al's brother is getting married. So that's cool. I love weddings. So I actually went shopping and I bought a cute dress, which I'm excited to wear, which I never shop. So that was actually kind of fun. And then we are gearing up for our Acadia trip after that. So that's my life. right now. What about you? What's happening in your life? Yeah, are you actually? I was thinking about that. You're

coming early to my house, right? I don't know. We haven't really talked about it. I think I was planning to come the day before we leave. Yeah, right. Like the evening before or afternoon before or something. Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited for our trip. I think this will come out when we're there. Like we will be doing the trip. Oh, we're in Acadia right now. Yeah. But you're not. Sorry. Unless you're listening to this at a campsite in Acadia, which would be... What do they say? Meta. So meta.

I don't know what the kids say. I don't either. But anyways, we have some stories for you. Would you like to go first or do you want me to go first? Sure. I can go first. Okay. Mine is titled, A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes or Not.

Hello, Cassie and Danielle. My name is Delaney. I'm from Florida, where I'm currently a senior psych student working for my college's campus recreation program. I love NPAD and have recently gotten into the habit of listening to episodes on my way home from college or vice versa. Has true crime keeps me awake on the road and my 4.5 hour drive is usually extended due to inclement weather or worse. Disney traffic. I was encouraged by a few of my friends to share this with y'all. Oh my god, you drive four and a half hours to school. Dedication. Dedication. Dedication. This story takes place in July of 2020.

For background, I was in Conservation Corps based out of Asheville, North Carolina last summer. I spent my first month maintaining trails in Cumberland Gap and performing invasive plant species management in Pigska National Forest. Fast forward to July, I was sent to Allegheny National Forest in Pennsylvania for what was supposed to be a four-week trail building project. We were to sleep at a beautiful yet primitive campsite in the forest, and I was excited to unplug and hang out with one of my best friends in the program for a whole month. After a first night stop in Pittsburgh at an Airbnb, we rolled up to the campsite and got a lay of the land. It wasn't long before we were shown the section of the trail not far down the road where we would be completing the majority of our work, but we weren't starting until the next day. That night, I crawled into my tent and mentally prepared myself for

the insomnia that always seems to accompany my first night camping in a new place. When I, quote unquote woke up in the middle of the night, I thought it was just that, insomnia. But something seemed different. That's when I heard the footsteps. I tried to roll over to face the direction of the crunching leaves, but I was paralyzed. It didn't matter, though, because the footsteps grew nearer until through the mesh of my tent, I could barely make out the silhouette of hefty boots backlit by a dim light. My eyes panned up the length of the very obviously male figure stopping at waist level. The next part is important, so keep it in your mind for later. I remember feeling abject terror as I watched the man bend over sideways at the hip to peer through my tent.

My heart hammered in my chest and I was convinced that this was real, that the mask worn by Michael Myers in the Halloween series I've never seen before my life gazing at me and greeting me with a mocking little wave was about to be the last thing I ever saw. I had nowhere to run and nowhere to hide, and the flimsy material of my tent, would be nothing to his knife. But then I actually woke up, and I wish this was the end of my story, but it isn't. I'll fast forward again to about two hours into my workday. My crew leader had gone to get chainsaw fuel in town,

leaving the rest of the crew and his assistant leader to start clearing brush from the sides of the trail and piling wood to use later. The last thing I expected was for my crew leader to come flying back down the trail sometime later, face serious in a way I couldn't recognize, telling us we needed to leave a meat Startled by my usually fundamentally unsurious co-worker's lack of humor, alarm bells went off in everyone's head. He gathered us, told us to drop our tools in the cash, and collect our packs, and then informed us that when we had left the forest and caught a signal, he received urgent messages from the Forest Service. What he shared with us next sent chills raising up my spine. At 11 p.m. the previous night, a dangerous convict had escaped from a state prison only 13 miles away.

and authorities suspected he was hiding out in the very forest we were working in with no service. While some of the details emerged later, hindsight only makes this particular moment more hair-raising. This individual was believed to be armed, was an ex-military survivalist, and had been convicted of arson, kidnapping, rape, and murder. Even after we made our very, very swift exit from the forest and temporarily abandoned our campsite for an Airbnb on orders from both the office in North Carolina and the Forest Service in Pennsylvania, and even though the man was eventually captured, there is one more detail that sets every cell of my body on edge. His name was Michael. Again, I had never seen the movie Halloween before.

For movie Michael to weave his way into my subconscious, the very same night, the real Michael escaped so close to our campsite and work site, well, it was uncannning to say the least. And quite honestly, I don't fully believe it was a coincidence. In any case, the look I shared with a single co-worker who I had told about my dream was worth every moment of terror that followed. And even we were reassigned to different projects across the East Coast following our interesting time in Allegheny. The week of pool playing, ukulele strumming, Great Lakes Swimming, and movie marathons that

came from a chaotic and uncertain situation will always be a reminder that finding the silver lining can turn horror into laughter. I hope you both like the story more than I liked living in it in that moment, wishing you all the best. And remember, enjoy the view, but watch your back, or else you might just find that there's a murderer in your neck of the woods. Isn't that wild? To have that dream and then it actually be real. And then it just makes me wonder, like, have you ever had dreams where something's actually happening outside your body? But like, say, for example, sometimes I'll have a dream that I really have to pee and then I wake up and I really have to pee. It just makes me wonder if they were having this dream and there was really footsteps that they

were hearing in real time. Yeah. I mean, that's so possible. And it's just so, it's so crazy. Like, I just love that story so much because obviously it's really frightening. But it's just, I only had something like that happened to me once and it's laughable that I'm even going to share right now because it has, It's on a different level, like way below the level that was the bar that was just set. So this was like, I would say this is about a year and a half ago now. And it's when a bunch of stuff was happening to me as far as like signs and synchronicities and really intense dreams, like visitation type things. And remember when I saw those things in like my house and like it was around this time. So there was a lot going on.

And I had this really vivid dream. and I could, I recall it like it was yesterday, even though it was a year and a half ago now. And I had this very vivid dream that I was sitting in like an auditorium type thing on folding chairs in the front row. And there was a mic stand and my grandfather, my mom's dad, who I have not seen in any dream in my entire life and who passed away many years ago, came up to the mic, had a piece of paper that it looked like he was going to read from. and he grabbed the mic, looked directly at me, and kept saying the word Lemoncello over and over and over again. And then that was it. That was the dream.

And it was so bizarre and so out of character for me that I texted my mom when I woke up and I said, because in my mind, I'm thinking lemoncello is a dessert. I've never had it. But it's an Italian thing. And I know that because we're an Italian family. but it's not something I grew up eating or I could ever recall having or seeing on the menu anywhere. Anyways, so I text her and she's like, oh, that's a really popular Italian liqueur. And I'm like, oh, maybe that's what he was talking about.

But I still didn't get it. I'm like, okay, whatever. And I just kind of filed it away. That night, I went out to dinner at a log cabin cabin tavern type thing in Evergreen, where I've been a million times before. and the bartender was really talkative and she was super nice, whatever. So we were kind of chit-chatting because I sat at the bar for dinner. And the people next to me commented on my ring and I told them about Ian out of nowhere. And they're like, oh my God.

And they're talking about their son, Ian. It was a whole thing. And I'm like, okay, great. I'm going to go really cool evening. And then the bartender was like, can I interest you in our dessert special? I can give you a birthday discount for it, even though it's not your birthday, just half off. And I said, oh, well, yeah, like, what is it? And she gave me a slice of lemon cello.

And it was just the most, but I have a picture of it. I took a picture of the case. Because it was just so impactful after that dream. It was just the most intense. And then I was like, what does it mean? Like, why am I suddenly seeing this everywhere? Well, why, like, why did he say that? And then it appeared, like, is there a deeper meaning?

why am I seeing him now, like when I never have seen him before? You know, it was just really bizarre. But it was just a really cool moment of having that translate into real life. So again, much different than the Michael Meyer situation that we've just. But very different. But still, it's correlated where it's taking something that happened to your dream and then putting it into real life. And so immediately, too. Yeah.

Like, like, bam, bam. It was just so like the turnaround was crazy. But anyway, yeah, okay, so I'll share my next story that has nothing to do with me. Okay. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice.

Off campus, L. Every year after, The Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Okay, so my first story is titled Guardian Angel. Hello, ladies, this is not a trail tale, but a home tale. I tried so very hard not to listen to your podcast.

I was on my way to the either Caney or Caney Fork Ultra in Middle Tennessee. I was riding with my trail sister, Trin, who was walking it with me because we don't run. She was listening to you guys and she was driving. We listened to Mistake or Malice in Zion, and I wasn't sure how I felt about what I was listening to. I'm not a true crime fan or a morbid fan. I was scarred from an incident in my childhood. I lived a fearful situation and didn't ever feel the need to watch or hear about the worst of society.

I will start the story by saying that the house I grew up in was haunted. I don't have any proof, just years of strange occurrences. It was not a mean or malicious spanishness. spirit. It did like to play pranks or make its presence known, from catching a glimpse of something floating by out of the corner of my eye, to hearing cabinets open and close when no one else was home and with no indoor pets, to my overhead fan spontaneously turning on when I laid in bed with my door closed. One night, around midnight, I was in my room not sleeping, with the door closed. My younger sister was sleeping with my mom, and my father worked nights. The hall light came on, odd.

old-fashioned home phone plugged into the wall, always made a clicking noise when someone else hung up from a phone call. My phone clicked. That was odd. It was after midnight and my sister and mom were supposed to be asleep. I decided to get up and turn the hall light off. As I was walking down the hall to the switch, suddenly my sister's clock radio on her nightstand started playing music. Now that was really odd. No one was in there. Instead of going past her room to hit the light switch, I walked into her room to turn the radio off. I saw a masked person standing in her room. My brain had not processed that fact yet, and suddenly he charged me and knocked me down. It felt like forever, but it was only seconds.

I opened my eyes to see the bathroom ceiling and feel the cold tile beneath me, why I was lying on the bathroom floor. I sat up to see the person in black running out of the open door to the kitchen. It was no nightmare. It was real. I started screaming. I was 14 years old. I feel that my ghost turned on that radio, so I came face to face with the intruder instead of having my back to them. Who knows what could have happened to me with my back turned? The police said, I likely startled the person and they ended up fleeing.

I know something fatal didn't happen to me. I wasn't even injured other than a bruise from hitting the floor. The scar from that incident at 14 years old has haunted me for over 30 years. I struggle to ever feel safe. I have trust issues and definitely have stranger. danger when I'm out in public or on a trail. My sister, mom, and I always spoke very openly about our ghost. It wasn't until after we both left home that my dad mentioned that he thought we had a ghost. Back to my experience first listening to y'all, I wasn't crazy about how shitty people can be to

each other. I seriously started Googling lighter podcasts similar to NPAD. I did like you too, and I enjoyed the discussion in banter, and I never found anything in my own. my search, so I tried another episode. And now I'm hooked. I love your storytelling ability. I love the survival stories and I love the history. I love hearing the stories of how people really lived and that you are getting that out there and not just how they died. I love listening to you both. Since the incident itself sucked, there are no pictures of that. I also have never caught my ghost on film. I've included a picture of me and my trail sis on one of our crazy adventures chasing waterfalls when y'all want to come chase them in Tennessee give me a yell thanks julie what a story i

definitely think you had someone looking out for you in that instance and also that experience is so scary i feel like i would feel the same way that you have where it's been something that's been a struggle to live with and feel safe especially when you're when something happens in your home where you're supposed to be safe and where you're supposed to be safe and where you're supposed to be shielded from the outside world and then it comes into your home that's such a, it's such a traumatic experience. And I definitely think that you had someone who was looking out for you that might. Yeah, absolutely. Just diverting your attention to where it needed to be in that moment. I mean, to me, it's pretty obvious that you had someone on your side. Yeah, for sure.

All right. My next story is really fun because it takes place in Vermont. It is titled Green Mountain National Forest. Hi. I love, love, love your podcast. I'm a solo backpacker who threw hiked Vermont's Long Trail in 2021 and the Appalachian Trail in 2022. I'd love to tell you guys about my possibly paranormal experience in Vermont's Bennington Triangle and the Green Mountains National Forest. The Long Trail and the Appalachian Trail share about 100 miles through southern Vermont,

and some of those miles go through a section of Vermont called the Bennington Triangle. As you can imagine, this area comprises the town of Bennington. Bennington, Vermont, as well as a well-known mountain in the area called Glastonbury Mountain. The area is perhaps most recently known for reported disappearances of five different and unrelated people, seemingly all at random, between 1945 and 1950, some on or around this trail. However, for decades prior, there have been other reports of strange supernatural incidents in this area. As I understand it, the Abinaki believed that Glastonbury Mountain, is cursed and that there lies an enchanted stone somewhere in the woods that if you are unlucky

enough to step on it can make you disappear into thin air. Hunters frequently would get lost there as well. There's even been reports of a bigfoot-esque monster roaming in its woods. I should start by saying that I'm not from New England. I grew up in New Orleans and knew virtually nothing about the Green Mountains or the Bennington Triangle before I decided to hike through them. When I set out on the long trail in 2021, my best friend came with me for the first section that we would later learn goes through this allegedly supernatural section of National Forests. We didn't experience too much weirdness out there besides her underwear being stolen overnight when hanging it out to dry on a true branch, but most of what we remember was how hard it was to get acclimated

to backpacking and get those trail legs. The first time I hiked through this area, I didn't find out about the scary stories of the Bennington Triangle until I was north of it. A through hiker told me that I probably was spared because I wasn't wearing anything red. Supposedly, some of the people who disappeared last century wore bright red. I shrugged it off as folklore. The next year, I repeated those exact miles on the Appalachian Trail, and that's when it got weird. This time, I had been relying on a small, bright red fanny pack that I had kept around my waist since starting in Georgia, the only red clothing item I had on my hike. This was a especially lightweight and reliable fanny pack, cheaper and lighter than those ones you get at

REI, that I was not going to forego for any part of my hike, despite the lure of the area. Every ounce counts when it comes to your gear. Odd things happen this time around. The first odd thing I noticed was once we entered into the Bendington triangle was how strange people were suddenly acting. This time of year, August, was when Northbounders started running into Southbounders who started in Maine. I had been running into them for about a month and conversation were typically the same. Expect XYZ water source to be dried up in 10 miles. Prepare for the gnarly climb on XYZ Mountain. Enjoy the rest of your hike and good luck, etc. But all of the sudden, in southern Vermont, these short exchanges with these southbound hikers felt stranger than usual.

Time and time again, despite the comparably forgiving terrain and good weather that usually makes people friendly and sociable, they were unable to keep a conversation with me. They all looked, in a word, dazed, as if they were not even processing that I was passing them on the trail. It was something I had never experienced since Georgia. The second odd thing was my own mood. I felt impressionable, kind of like I was a little tipsy. I was in a good mood and my critical thinking skills were a little stunted. If someone wanted to lure me off the trail somewhere, I remember thinking I would follow

them. This lasted all through the Bennington Triangle and ended when I was out of it. The third odd thing was I simply didn't remember the trail. When repeating those long trail miles on the Appalachian Trail through hike, I distinctly remembered the miles just before entering the Bennington Triangle and the miles north of it once exiting the triangle. But those miles inside of the triangle, many of them were completely unfamiliar to me. It was especially disturbing because part of the trail at this point goes through Glastonbury Mountain, the epicenter of the Bennington Triangle.

On hot day in August, it's a bit of a slog even if you're coming from all the way from Georgia. I'll be it kind of forgettable after more than 1,600 miles of continuous backpacking. But I should have remembered it because the first time I hiked it was the year prior with no backpacking experience under my belt. I should have remembered summiting this mountain. It was a substantial climb for a beginner and has a nice fire tower at the top with a nice view, which I might add uniquely ominous signs warning hikers not to venture off the trail. I am positive I have climbed this mountain before because I remember eating lunch at the Goddard shelter just before the summit. But somehow, I don't remember climbing or descending it, despite the climb being exhausting and the northbound descent

being a bit technical in some spots. I texted my best friend who hiked this section with me the year prior, describing the mountain and fire tower view in detail, asking if she remembered it. She said that she had no idea what I was talking about. Neither of us could recall it. Given how long of a climb this is for a beginner backpacker, and in my case would have been the mainstay of the second day of my first ever through hike, I was left very concerned that it had apparently been erased from my memory. The fourth odd thing was the night I spent at Melville-Naheim Shelter, one of the first stops on the northbound journey of Glastonbury Mountain. This was the same shelter where my friend lost her underwear the year prior. I want to preface this by stressing that at this point, I had been out

backpacking for months. Months. And this was the first and last night on the whole seven-month journey. Side note, I took my time out there where I truly was disturbed by the lack of noise in the forest as I lay in my tent that night. Typically throughout the night, you'll hear the flora and fauna through your paper thin tent. Wind, rustling, running water, cars on distant roads, bugs, nocturnal critters, nearby camper, snoring and rolling around on their inflatable mattresses, etc. It can be so noisy that I have a through hike with multiple pairs of earplugs. This night in the Bennington triangle, it felt like camping in a pitch black vacuum. No wind, no bugs, no wrestling, no sound of the nearby stream. All I could hear was my own breathing. Again, this is not a normal experience camping in the forest.

A forest, even at its deepest hours, is supposed to be humming with life. This felt like camping in a dead zone. When we woke up the next day, my friends who tended with me commented how they were also disturbed by how quiet it was. They also noticed it and they were also a bit shaken. It truly felt cursed. It was hard to be briefly alone out there, even for bathroom breaks. I'm not a staunch believer in the paranormal, but this experience shook me a bit. I would happily hike through this section a third time and would advise my fellow hikers to look out for some weirdness there. Regardless, hikers enjoy this area all year and you'll probably be just fine. Sincerely, Sarah. Well, Sarah, we have done an episode on this. Well, we talked a little bit about it. It wasn't a whole episode. Yeah, you covered it. Yeah, I just looked it up. Episode 40. So it was a while ago. Yeah, it was a while ago. Because some of those things, I was like, that sounds familiar and feels like I know this stuff. The red, wearing the red, like really jogged my memory. Well, you tell me, Cassie, you're the Vermonter. I am, but I haven't hiked in the area that she's talking about because that's more southern Vermont. And I'm.

I'm northern Vermont. So I have not experienced that, but I will definitely keep it in mind if I go down there that I will not be wearing red because I am not inviting any of that. Well, and you're also like very when she was describing the feeling of being like impressionable, like suddenly just really sensitive to outward vibes. Like I feel like you're the perfect barometer for that type of thing. Like I would sense something was off. Yeah. Yeah. I think I would too. Especially in the woods. I mean, honestly, when I sense things are off in the woods, I turn around. So I probably wouldn't have even made it as far as she did.

Yeah, Cassie's like the canary in the coal mine. Like we just shove her somewhere and be like, how are you doing? Like caviata here. Okay. My next story is titled My Unexplanable Sign. Hello, ladies. Sorry in advance. If this story is a bit all over the place, I'm clinically deficient in the attention department.

I'm a newer listener, so I'm not 100% caught up. currently on episode 107 and I absolutely love you guys and the show. You're my favorite driving buddies for my almost hour long commute to work. Apologies in advance. I contemplated commenting because I know it sucks to hear how sorry someone is for your loss because it's absolutely never any consolation at all, but I am so, so sorry for your loss, Danielle, you are one strong lady and I wish you nothing but healing and peace while you navigate grief. Long live Ian. Yes, cheers to that. My story is a short one. During my transition, from high school to college, my dad passed away. I always tell him or the universe or whatever.

It was probably the worst timing, but I know if it was up to him, he'd outlive us all. He had a rough life that led to drinking his liver into failure, and by the time he quit, when my mom got pregnant with me, the damage was already done. He and I were absolutely too similar and we butted heads constantly. It also always seemed like our bladders were connected. Every single time he went to the bathroom, I apparently knocked three seconds after he locked the door. After deciding that my dream college in Maine wasn't something I could mentally handle after his passing, I settled on a local community college. I did my time and I graduated with my associate's degree. Getting through school was rough. I had a lot of regrets after my dad passed and

I was just dragging myself to the finish line. When I finally reached it, my family wanted to know what was next. I'm a very sensitive person and I guess I just felt like I wasn't. I was wasn't good enough. Where are you going to transfer to? What's next? You need another degree. Was much louder than congratulations. I really can't describe what I felt, but I would cry to the universe and I'd cry to my dad. I knew he'd be proud in his own stubborn way, but I was hurting. I desperately wished that he was there. Even though if you asked me, I'd completely deny that his opinion had any effect on me at all. I was working retail at the time and I had just clocked out for my lunch break. I went to the food court, ordered and got my food, and began my walk back to the

store I worked in. Halfway up the escalator, I looked to my right, and it all hit me. In an instant, I was crying, pulling my phone out to take a photo and juggling my lunch in my shaky hands. I'll attach the picture to this email. I've never been one to ask for signs, because I'm so incredibly scared of being disappointed, maybe rejected, and although I like to think I'm a spiritual person, I absolutely tried to explain everything as a coincidence. But this sign was just so blatant. At the cookie shop next to the escalator, there was a cookie cake that said, Congratulations, Juliana, with a graduation cap.

Growing up with a very specifically spelled name, I never got one of those keychains or name souvenirs, because they were never spelled correctly. It was everything I needed in that moment. Absolutely everything. Even though I was an edgy teenage girl, I really truly did love my dad. I was such a daddy's girl when I was little. I also have to say that the episode on 06 did a number on me.

Absolutely broke my heart. So I had to look up the nearest sanctuary. Next time, I'm in the Poconos area. I'll be making a visit and sobbing during the whole visit, probably. Oh, did I mention my dad's name is Wolf? I love you guys, like you're my friends in the real world. Thank you for all you do and all the awareness you bring. I've learned so much and I definitely plan on taking more tracks into the wilderness,

enjoying the view and watching my back, Juliana. I really love signs stories because, one, I hear them from you a lot and it's always when you tell them it's like they come out at these times where people need them the most. But then when we hear them from people who write into us are having a similar experience where they're getting these signs when they really need it the most is just such a, I don't, it's like almost a reassuring. across the board that it's real. Like it's not just one or two people who are experiencing it. It's so many people are getting these signs from loved ones who have since passed on at the time that they need it

when they ask for it. And it's just really cool to hear how it comes to life for people in real time. And even the times of like, you know, in certain circumstances with different people are like, I'm not a big believer. I didn't ask for it specifically, but I was hopeful. And it's just like, the universe, you know, or whatever you want to call it, a higher power spirit, God, however you categorize it, knows, even if you're not specifically like, I need to see a Tweety Bird cuckoo clock tomorrow by four or you're not listening, like, yeah, which serves its purpose and I'm a huge proponent of and I do that often. But it's also cool to hear stories like this of like, I'm spiritual, but I'm also really rational and I didn't ask for anything because I didn't

want to be disappointed, but my heart was aching. And it's like your dad picked up on that and knows that because it's my belief that our loved ones are always looking out for us and show up for us when we really need it. And the other part of that is when we will recognize it. Yes. And this is a perfect example of that. So I am so happy that you wrote that in Juliana. And, And congratulations because graduating is a huge accomplishment and there doesn't need to be and then. Not like, I'm graduating and then I'm going to go do this. Like, it's enough to graduate and take that accomplishment for what it is. Yes, I agree.

And I'm also with you on the keychain thing where no one ever spells your name, right? When you read that? I was like, yes. Preaching to the choir. No one. I mean, it's more popular than it used to be. Like Cassandra, you can find sometimes, but it's not super common. But Cassie is never.

It's always a Casey. There's always a Casey. There's never a Cassie. And Cassandra, occasionally, but it's not very common. Well, I'll keep my eye out for it now forever. Thank you. If I see that. Yeah, I appreciate it.

All right, my last trail tale for the episode, I think. is titled Trail Tales. Hello to my favorite outdoor podcast pals. Thank you for this podcast. I have no clever things to say other than that you help me relax after long, sometimes hard days at the vet clinic. And for that, I appreciate you. I started listening about two months ago and I am just completely here for it. I know it's a parissocial relationship, but it feels like I found my people. And that is so meaningful. The feeling is mutual. We also feel like we found our people. I'm a Pennsylvania girl who lived a chunk of my life in very southern Utah, and Kanab. I've been there. Having the many amazing parks in the area as my playgrounds made for some very happy memories. I have so many stories I could tell from those days,

but I would like to tell you about two events from the same area, Coyote Butes. This is the part of the Paria Canyon's Vermillion Cliffs Wilderness, which it turns out is part of the Grand Staircase Escalante. This particular area is most famous for the wave, which is actually a very tiny formation that is quite difficult to get to and requires a permit to visit. I am attaching a photo of myself at the wave in case you haven't seen it. This formation has been featured in National Geographic and many travel magazines because it's truly stunning, but this has led many people not doing research and attempting to visit the area without permits, without researching, and without planning.

I recently heard from a friend in the area who does search and rescue, who is talking about yet another mission to this area, which is an obscure spot in an other place. obscure past of the country. Yet, she is out there several times a year either rescuing or recovering. This conversation inspired me to send you this message, because if you do choose to share this on your platform, maybe it will keep even one person safe. So a bit about getting to the wave. To get to the trailhead, you have to know which unmarked, unmaintained road to turn onto. It is always in very rough shape, so if you don't have four-wheel drive and high clearance, you're not going to make it to the trailhead. The trailhead is not signed for the wave because the BLM does not want tons of people back there.

They issue 20 permits a day via lottery, but they are where people can easily find their way over there just wandering around the wilderness area. So they try to minimize it. To get to the wave, you have miles and miles of unsigned, unshaded, empty wilderness that you need to be able to navigate on your own. Best idea, Topa map, or find a tour company, because you also have to find your way out, which is actually the harder part since it's just an enormous expanse of nothing. On the way in, you start in washes with at least some differentiating features, but finding the notch to get back to this side after you're on the wave side is a pain if you don't know where it is. In short, it's a very bad idea to go looking for the wave if you aren't prepared for it. My story takes place in April, which is already hot

and very sunny. My friend, who was a professional tour guide in the area, and I were actually coming back from a hike in a nearby slot canyon that shares its parking area slash starting point with a butte slash the wave. We were about halfway to the exit from the unmaintained road when we spotted a person who had pulled off the road. Her car was a very not four-wheel drive, very not high clearance forward focus, and it was clear that both tires were flat. At first, we thought someone had stopped to help her as a truck was nearby, but as we drove past, we saw that it was four men who were standing around her car. I locked eyes with her, and her panic was clear. We immediately pulled over.

My friend and I immediately hopped out and started yelling, Hey, girl, so glad we found you. Thanks for dropping your location. So lucky we were able to get signal. Everyone was waiting at the trail, etc. I didn't know if it would work, and at first the guys tried to act like shoes with them. But I grew up with a family full of abusive,

controlling garbage men, and I have little to no patience for it. Anyway, I told the guy who was doing the speaking that he was full of crap because she was supposed to be us at the trailhead, and we had come to get her. He told us we were shit friends for not warning her to not bring that car and she was better off with them. I told him it wasn't his business and to piss off. I very openly took a photo of their license plate and asked if I needed to text that to my friend who works at the BLM so they could look

into them for harassment. They finally backed off with some more choice words thrown at us and they left. This poor girl was crying and so shaken. We offered to either call her a toe, but the need nearest town was about an hour away or take her to town with us so she could send the tow truck out for her car. She decided to come with us and on the ride to town, she told us that she had come out here because she heard the wave was beautiful. We learned that she had driven up from Phoenix, Arizona, a long drive, had brought a single bottle of water, had no map, and of course no permit. You get the idea. Now, I'm not trying to shame her. She wanted to get out and see nature and I get that. Not everyone is a nutty planner about hiking like I happen to be. Many other places around the area,

except the wave, would have been completely fine. And even with little water, at least she would have had been able to walk easily back to her car. She came with us to town. We got a tow and sent it out for her, and she got her car fixed and headed home. She texted us when she got home and in the end, everything was okay. But to this day, years later, I think about what might have happened if nobody had driven by. As you can imagine, the road is not well-traveled, and it's It could have been hours before anyone else went by. If those men had bad intentions, they were in the middle of thousands of miles of largely untravelled desert.

Anything could have happened, and it haunts me. The second tale I have is much shorter, and not directly mine. But it happened about the same time and reinforces the importance of knowing what you're getting into, especially in the desert. My friend who works for search and rescue was called out to Coyote Butes that same April for a recovery. Two elderly people had been spotted sitting under one of the very very very. very, very few trees in the area of the wave. People had assumed they were taking a break in the

precious shade until someone who had hiked out in the morning was on their way back in the late afternoon and saw them still there. He realized they were unfortunately deceased. Nobody knows when they had gone out. There was no evidence of them getting permits. They had almost no water with them and they were not dressed for the brutally hot sunny hike. They had no map with them. They did thankfully have IDs so they were able to be identified and sent to their family. Nobody knows their story. They seem to have gone out on a whim. It is suspected that the wave was their destination,

but we will really never know. They got several miles in to the point where I'll tell you that the tree they were under is one of the very few landmarks you'll have. We had it marked on our topo map for orientation, actually, because even with the map, it is a difficult place to navigate. That was a very difficult recovery for my friend. Just seeing these sweet elderly people who went out there and sat in the shade and didn't get back up.

Their family didn't have any idea they were. were out there. The person who found them was traumatized. It was just very sad and so preventable. So all my outdoor enthusiast friends out there, please do your research. Don't make my friend and people like her have to airlift your body out and bring your family in for identification. Don't leave your fate up to the random chance that a super aggressive girl will show up and argue with four men who have unknown intentions for you. These things can happen anyway. So please just do what you can to keep yourself safe. So you can go home with a photos and stories to share. Again, I do not blame any of these people. These things happen,

but please do everything you can to be prepared. And if you're in the desert, for the love of all nature's beauty, bring several gallons of water. There's a reason the locals are wearing camelbacks that look like they are full of overnight gear, but it's actually all water. Thank you for all your hard work. I hope someday to be able to go on an adventure with you, Trisha. Wow, that was a heavy one. Yeah. And thankfully you were there, Trisha. and that you're so outspoken and brave and, like you said, aggressive because there's not a doubt in my mind based on your description that those men had very bad intentions, especially if this girl had locked herself in her car and was not letting them help her.

Like, they clearly weren't there to help. I mean, if four men approached me and they were like, oh, my God, you have slashed tires, can I help you? And they seemed friendly. I would allow it. But if you were sitting there shaking, crying in your car with your children. doors locked. Whatever they had been doing before you got there was clearly bad intentions. Yeah, I'm not. Obviously, you were that person's guardian angel that day. And I think that obviously,

it's hard because things happen, you know, like even if you're the most prepared, things can go sideways and awry and unexpected events can arise. And you can cross horrible people. Yes, exactly. But, yeah, I mean, your point is so valid. you know, you can do everything you can to try and avoid those certain types of situations and finding yourself in them. And, um, but you can't control other people and yeah, yeah. But just being as prepared as possible for whatever your plans are is always important. And of course, you don't know if you're going to run into people like that.

But also just, uh, I hate, I hate that that happened to that girl. I'm so happy that you were there. But it's just so frustrating. She drove all the way there for a solo adventure, and I know she wasn't unprepared. I know she was unprepared for what she was doing. But women should be able to just go out on a hike and not have, or if your car breaks down, you should be able to rely on someone to help you and not terrify you. And that's just try and harm you.

Yeah. Or try and harm you. Yeah. Like it's just, it's not right. And that is so upsetting. Yeah, it's frustrating. That it's such a common, it's such a common story. and I think we all, to some degree, have an instance that you can personally relate to that.

Like, maybe it wasn't that level, but it's unsettling how many of us can be like, oh, yeah, I had something like that kind of happened to me too. And that's not right. Every woman I know, including myself, have stories with men that are scary. Like, even and they all vary to different degrees. And there's what's that saying? It's like, not all men are bad, but there are enough bad men that make them all scary. I've never heard that before, but I would agree. Yeah. It's not worded exactly like that, but it's something along those lines.

I get the general just of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's the unfortunate state of the world we live in, but hopefully it gets better. And I mean, there is, I think that because we're so aware of it now is kind of like a society that I think we're taking steps in the right direction. And I mean, I just see glimmers of folk with like people I know. and men that I love and that are in my life that I know are so pure intentioned and, you know, there are so many good people out there that are men, especially who we surround ourselves with and stuff. Like, I just feel like it's getting better and better as time goes on. So hopefully in 100 years from now. It won't be a thing. I do think.

I think it'll be a thing. Don't get me wrong. Like I'm not that much of an optimist. But I think it's significantly better because, and I want to say, it's because they're getting called out. That behavior is being called out and publicly shamed. And rightfully so. They're being held accountable.

And I think that their behavior is changing. And that's just, yeah. I think part of what is helpful too is that because all of this is being voiced, that good men are starting to step forward and stop stuff like this. Or they're changing their own behaviors to be more conscious of how they're acting. Like Al told me a story the other day of, I was really polite. He had like I've seen him in scenarios and stuff, but he never wants to be a scary person. And he's really cognizant of that, especially around women. And he works in the fire

department and he was telling me a story the other day where he like went into the kitchen and the lights were off and there was a girl in there and he left the room. And he was like, hey, I'm here, but I'll wait till you're done. And because it was dark in there, she was like in a corner and she was, He was just like, hey, I'm down here, but I'm over here, like, get whatever you need. And I'll come in in a second. She's like, oh, it's fine. And then, but he immediately was like, it's dark. She's alone.

I'm the only person here and I'm walking up behind her at night. So it was like his first reaction. And I was just thinking, I was like, that's so sweet that you thought to like step away and announce your presence to make her feel more comfortable. And I was like, and I feel like a lot of men are starting to do that, especially like walking down the road at night. And if you're like a city or something and being like, hey, I'm behind. you, not trying to freak you out, like just back here. I just want you to know. And I think more and more

men are doing that, which is definitely a comfort. Of course, it's still a huge problem as we're seeing in this. But I think that things are changing and good men are making themselves more known that they're good men, which is always good. Yeah, they're out there. They're out there. A lot of them out there. I mean, I have a lot of experience with really wonderful men in my life and then have also some shit experiences too. Yeah, not so good. Every bad experience I've ever had that made me fear for my safety has been from a man. And I think a lot of women or those of us who identify as women can relate to that. And that's the whole problem. I've had some scary women in my life as well. I haven't. I will have to say.

You witnessed one of my scary women experiences when we were in Paris. Oh my God, yeah. Remember? Oh, my God. Okay. So just a quick trail tale of my own. We were in Paris and we were walking down the street and there was this woman and I don't know what was going on with her. I don't know if she had been doing drugs, if she was drinking. But she was doing like some weird stuff and she was clearly a little unhinged and I accidentally made eye contact with her. And which we had trained not to do. Which I did not mean to. And she just immediately locks eyes with me. And I was like, oh, fuck. And I like, look away. Like, please, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to look at you.

And she looks at me and she goes, you. She goes, I don't know you, but I want your fucking phone now. And she starts charging me. And she's trying to grab my phone from me. And I just started walking away from her in this crowd of people while she's screaming at me to give me to give for me to give her my phone. She's holding a phone in her hand also, I will add. And then I end up walking through this huge crowd of people who are just watching as this woman is.

Across traffic. Across traffic. Across the street. This woman's following me. She's screaming at me and everyone's just kind of watching. I like, what is going on? And then luckily, she got distracted and she hopped in this cab that had other people in it and started screaming at the people in the cab, which got me out of it. but I hope those people were okay. But yeah, she was, I don't know what was going on with her. She definitely would have fought me if we had gotten in contact. I didn't even say a word to her. You're quick.

You just started walking away. You were so quick. I lost you. I saw her, like, I just saw her look at me and she was like yelling and I was like, this girl is going to attack me if she gets close to me. I could just see it in her eyes that she had no problems with touching me. And I was just like, I got to remove myself from this person. So I just like was walking away.

I know. I'm like, now I'm scared because I'm lost in the crowd. I'm like I see Cassie just like because she's shorter than everyone. And it was a big crowd. And she's like making her way. You could see the little path where people were like moving out of the way. Yeah. Like someone help me.

Those girls are trying to attack me in public. Yeah. It's like, what do I have to do? I'm being harassed. Like she's clearly screaming at me aggressively like ready, fist up. Like. And I'm sure there were some type. of, I don't know if it was drug related, alcohol related, if it was a mental illness that was

happening. Either way, I was not safe in that scenario. And I hope that she's doing better today. And I hope she has figured out whatever is going on and is not attacking anyone right now. But that was my experience. Yeah, that was the day we went to the Moulon Rouge, I think. Yeah. And then we're like, okay, let's go to dinner in a show, I guess. As Cassie said, anyway, Anyway. My last story is titled, Avalanche Survival Story. On February 8, 2004,

I headed out to the Grand Mesa with my boyfriend and four other friends for a day of snowmobiling. We had gotten some fresh snow over the past couple of days and the excitement was high, but so was the avalanche danger. We were all very well aware of this. The Grand Mesa is located within the Uncum Pagre and Gunnison National Forests,

which cover almost 3 million acres of land. The area features, diverse landscapes from high alpine meadows to rugged canyons and is known for its extensive recreation opportunities including hiking, fishing, and snowmobiling. The Grand Mesa itself is the largest flat-topped mountain in the world, offering a unique and stunning environment. It's a gorgeous, relatively untouched area with a lot of low-angle terrain, making it a safer choice for mountain riding on high avalanche danger days. As I later found out, one of the group members was overcome by a strong wave of emotions on the way to the trailhead that morning. He said he couldn't tell why or what

it was, but he teared up on the way in. It felt like a premonition, a subtle warning of what was to come. We all geared up at the trailhead, discussed the avalanche danger, and made a plan for the day. We checked that our beacons, radios, and in-reaches were working. We confirmed that everyone had all of their gear, snacks, water, and first aid kits, and then set off. I am not as familiar with this area as everyone else I was with, so I guess you could say I was playing follow the leader. After riding on the trail for some time, we left the trail and started to make our way to the different areas we planned to go to that day. We're mountain riders, so we spend most of our days off of the trail playing in fields, weaving through the trees and climbing mountains. The lighting

that day was flat and disorienting. I don't know if you're familiar with flat lighting and snow, but when it's very cloudy, you aren't able to see any of the shadows on the snow that allow you to decipher bumps, depth, or accurately judge the pitches of the slopes. I remember hitting bumps in the snow that I didn't even see coming. Before we get any further, I think this is a good time to give you a little background on me and the group that I was riding with. I was out that day with a very talented and experienced group of snowmobilers. I, on the other hand, am newer to snowmobiling, with only three seasons under my belt. I bought my snowmobile in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Since I was two years old, I spent all of my winters skiing and started dabbling with backcountry skiing when I moved out to Colorado in 2014.

I have always thought that snowmobiling looked fun and seemed like a great way to access the backcountry. In 2020, I wasn't sure what COVID would do to the ski resorts, so I just bit the bullet and bought myself a snowmobile without even knowing how to ride. My then-friend, now boyfriend, Dan, helped me pick one out and was one of the few people who were kind enough to show me the ropes of mountain-rides. It's important to mention what an absolute pain it is to teach someone how to ride in the backcountry. You see, it's really easy to get your sled stuck in the powder. It takes a lot of energy to dig that 500-pound machine out of the snow when it gets stuck. You often need help from the people you're with. The first three-fourths of my first season was spent getting myself stuck and unstuck over and

over and over again. Dan was there through it all, helping me every step of the way. It goes without saying, but he's a patient and very sweet, guy. I slowly got good enough to follow my friends into trickier areas with bigger hills and tighter trees. I stopped getting stuck all the time and that brings me up to my skill level today. And with that in mind, let's get back to February 8th. We got off the trail and quickly realized just how nice the snow was that day. Everywhere we went, there was deep, untouched, fresh powder. It was the best riding I had done all season and we were all having a blast. At one point, I stopped to take a break.

I watched as three members of our group weaved in and out of the trees up a small hill. Dan and one of the other group members stopped next to me. I still get nervous weaving in and out of trees. I always try to take the easier routes so I don't get stuck or hit any of the trees. I told Dan and our friend that I was going to ride up the hill on the right of the other tracks. My friend warned me that part of the hill was steep and to be careful. I looked up at the hill and could barely make out the shadow of a little wind lip on the right side of the hill. Wind lips often signify a steeper area, so I assumed that was the steep part of the hill my friend had warned me about.

I decided to go up the center of the hill with the wind lip to my right and the trees on my left. From a distance, this route did not look steep, but I was wrong. I approached the route and soon felt the hill gets steep, way too steep. I found myself reaching the top of the hill with my snowmobiles track digging into the snowpack as it got steeper. Towards the crest of the hill, the track had fully trenched into the snow. My sled was upright and it was not climbing any higher. I attempted to swing my snowmobile downhill because I could tell it was not going to make it to the top. At this point, I got thrown off of my sled and it rolled over me.

What I didn't realize immediately was that the snowpack below me had broken, and that's what threw me off my snowmobile. I had triggered an avalanche and was getting pushed deep into the slide by my sled. By the time my snowmobile passed over me, everything had stopped moving, and I realized my whole body was locked in place. I was in a downward angle, face down in the snow, arms outstretched, and completely buried. I realized once everything had stopped moving exactly what had happened, and I was completely helpless. Everyone says that if you find yourself in this situation, you need to do your best to stay calm, because if you panic, you'll run out of air faster. I knew this. I knew no one could hear me scream, but I was.

I screamed. I panicked. This was my worst nightmare come true. How do you not panic? I thought about our beacon checks in the morning and how I knew mine was on and working normally. I thought about how Dan and our other friend watched me climb the hill and then saw the whole thing. I thought about how I did not want this to be the end. Dan and I had big plans for our future. We had been working on buying a home and we were days away from our third anniversary. I had been working on getting a second degree and changing career paths. I have a dog at home that I loved dearly and wanted so badly to return to. It was also overwhelming. I didn't have a lot of time to think, though.

I passed out within a minute. I think from panicking, but who knows. Just before I lost consciousness, I noticed one of my feet could move a little bit. I thought it might be close to the surface, so I wiggled it as much as I could, hoping that maybe someone would see it. I think wiggling that foot was the very last thing I did before I passed out. Just above the surface, the rescue efforts were in full swing. swing. Dan and our other friend watched in horror as everything had unfolded. Dan was familiar with the

area and later told me that as he saw me approaching the hill, he thought, Cassie, what are you doing? Knowing from prior experience just how steep that hill was, as soon as they saw the hill pop up, they rushed over, hopping off their sleds and started searching from the last point where they saw me. Dan started searching with his beacon, which led them into the right direction. miraculously, just below the surface of the snow, they were able to see the bottom of one of my boots. In their panic, they had left their backpacks and, more importantly, their shovels by their snowmobiles. They started digging for me with their hands. Avalanche snow is heavy and hard-packed, so it's very difficult to get through without a shovel.

As if on cue, one of the other members of our party arrived and tossed them the shovel that he had in his pack. They freed my leg first, and Dan wiggled it to let me know that they had me. but I was unconscious by this point and didn't respond. Within several minutes, they were digging my face out. One of my legs was bent in a very peculiar way. They all thought that it was broken and expected a tricky extraction, so someone had pressed the SOS button on their in-reach. Another member of the group was preparing to spot-performed CPR and administer first aid.

They freed my airway, and though I was passed out, they could hear me breathing. I slowly came to and remembered realizing that Dan was there, and then I had survived. My vision and thoughts came back to me in a blur. It reminded me of the pins and needles feeling you get when a limb starts to fall asleep. I was very coherent, very quickly, and almost immediately began trying to push myself out of the hole.

Everyone was trying to get me to stop because they were worried about my leg and my spine, but I was insistent that everything was okay, and they helped me flip into a seated position. Breathing has never felt so good. I was thirsty for air. That's the only way I can describe it. Everyone was shocked,

but my leg was completely fine. Dan tells me that I must just be made out of rubber bands. They checked my head and my responses, put me in a bivy bag, and dug my fully buried snowmobile out of the snow. I didn't have a scratch on me, and my snowmobile was perfectly fine. Oddly enough, the SOS signal from the in-reach never went through.

We headed down to some nearby trees to start a fire, warm up, and collect ourselves. We talked about going back to the trailhead, but a few of the guys had mentioned riding some open fields of the area. The conditions were so nice, I felt fine, so I couldn't help myself but join them. I figured I was alive and okay and should make the most of it. We stayed out for an hour or so longer and then headed back,

all in complete amazement at the day we had just had and the fact that I had survived. I didn't know what to say to everyone when we left. I was so happy to be with such a well-prepared and well-trained group. The five guys I were with are my heroes, and I owe my life to them. The whole experience feels like a dream, and I'm still in disbelief that it even happened. Dan and I celebrated our third anniversary on February 13th with a newfound love and respect for each other's presence and well-being. We didn't let this slowest down. We went on a snowmobile and ski trip just two weeks later and stayed at a beautiful dry hut in the backcountry.

Everyone we were with that day continues to enjoy recreating in the back country. Life goes on, thankfully. I hope that telling the story encourages my fellow winter sports enthusiasts to do their avalanche and wilderness first aid training. It may save your life or somebody you loves. life. Here's my advice. If you ski in the backcountry, take the airy avie one course. If you snowmobile, take the airy class that is combined with a riding clinic. Always check the avalanche reports of your area before going out. In Colorado, we have the Colorado Avalanche Information Center that reports avalanche conditions across the state. Always have your beacon on and check that

everyone's beacons are working properly before you head out. Make sure everyone in your group has their shovels and probes and regularly checks that any other equipment like avalanche bags, radios, and sat phones are working properly. Keep a well-stocked first aid kit along with your food and water. Before heading out, make a plan with your group about where you are going and what terrain you should avoid. Stay with at least one other member of your group at all times. Keep an eye on them and make sure they keep an eye on you.

Cassie. Okay, Cassie, you're badass as hell for you survived in Avalanche. got knocked out by it and then woke up and then went snowmobiling again for another hour. Yeah, what? A beast. A beast. Like what? You just almost lost your life.

Seriously. Almost just lost your life. And you're like, well, the conditions are really good today. I should probably take advantage of it since I'm still alive. Yeah. Crazy. And also, I think is such a testament to being in the outdoors in, if you're in an out of avalanche zone or a dangerous area or doing a dangerous sport to be with people you trust because

the people that you were with saved your life, you know, and making sure that when you go out into these locations, one to have, there's some things you can do solo, stuff like this is not one of them, and to be with people who have the training, who have the knowledge and can help you if you find yourself in that situation. Yeah, that whole story just reminded me of a well-oiled machine. Like, even though you never practiced maybe that scenario together before, like you all had the knowledge and wherewith all the training, the tools, and you just, it just happened. And that's an ideal situation. Everyone knew what to do. Everyone knew they had limited time to get you out. That's why they jumped on it so fast. The fact that your foot was showing is just such a godsend because

it not seeing that. And then having. to find you and probe you and everything. I mean, especially because you already passed out, probably from lack of oxygen is, or maybe shock, I don't know, but, and you said they had to clear your airway. So clearly there was something in your mouth. A lot of times when you get stuck in an avalanche, you get ice and snow stuck in your airway. So yeah, what a crazy story. Avalanche stories and survivals always intrigue me and scare me. And to hear it, I'm so happy you survived and you are able to tell the tale. And I love that you ended it with telling people to go take an Abbey course because it's so important, especially if you're in the backcountry to just

check that off your list. It's a weekend course. It's so easy. And it gives you so much knowledge to just do it. Yeah, you did it last year or two years. I guess it was two years, two winters ago now. But yeah, and I learned so much. And I learned the instructors. that I had were really, really experienced and had rescued and been part of many avalanches because they just were in the backcountry a lot. And I learned things that I could have never learned by reading online and they make you actually practice using a beacon and practice shoveling things out and they teach you about snow conditions and how to recognize avalanche terrain. And yeah, of course, you want to look at the avalanche reports. That's the number one thing that you should do.

But conditions can change, weather can change in knowing how to identify the snow that you are recreating in is so important. And that's a big part of the course. And I just second what you're saying to go out, take these courses and be prepared in the locations that you're hanging out in. Well, that's about it for us here. Except if you're on Patreon or Apple subscriptions, because then we have two more stories. Yeah. So we'll see all your subscribers over there and everyone else. We will see you next week. In the meantime, enjoy the view. But watch you back.

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