National Park After Dark - When Good Intentions Go Bad: Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

Wilderness Therapy – some praise it, others shame it. In the 1980’s Steve Cartisano created the Challenger Foundation, the wilderness therapy camp that promised to reform wayward teens. It seemed like a perfect solution for concerned parents until kids experienced abuse and others died while in camp care. Today we venture to Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument to understand how Hell Camp earned its name.For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Reel: Use our link and code NPAD to sign up for a subscription to automatically get 30% off of your first order and free shipping.Acorns: Use our link to sign up for Acorns to start saving and investing for your future.Prose: Use our link for a free in-depth hair consultation and 50% off your first subscription. Plus 15% off and free shipping on all future subscription orders.Quince: Use our link to get free shipping and 365-day returns.\For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Monday AI agents took over my work. And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Monday.com. So they see the full picture, my work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff,

knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress.

Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Summer camp, an iconic American tradition. Every year, about 26 million children attend roughly 15,000 day and overnight summer camps across the United States to develop new friendships, gain independence, and explore new interests and activities.

From tent camping, talent shows, arts and crafts, day hikes and water sports, time spent away at camp for many is a memory to be cherished. The first summer camps appeared in the 1870. and as one early camp founder phrased it, summer camp would save humanity from dying of indoorness. In 1900, there were less than 100 camps in the U.S. Less than two decades later, there were more than a thousand. Camp was a place to focus on art, playtime, and activities that would soon be lost in adulthood.

For most of American adolescents, getting a chance to attend summer camp was an Eden. but for others it was pure hell. Welcome to National Park After Dark. I'm so excited we're finally doing this episode because you have been hyping it up for over a week now. Well, I banned Cassie from watching the documentary that this story is based on. The first time I actually wanted to watch something and you're like, no. Please don't. Yeah.

So this story is probably going to be on the top of mind. for a lot of people who have the same interest as us and have access to Netflix. The documentary that I am referring to is it's in the top 10 right now. It's called Hell Camp Teen Nightmare. And it's been flashing in Cassie's face for the last two weeks. And I'm like, please don't watch it. Every time I turn on Netflix, it's right there recommended that I should watch it. Like, I know. Well, it wouldn't hit the same if you watched it. I do want you to watch it after I tell the story. obviously because it's richer in detail. But anyways, so today we're going to go on a truly wild ride, which was the Challenger Foundation, which took root in the deserts of Utah within the Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument in a wild time known as the 1980s.

And I do just want to do a little forewarning here. This episode does discuss themes of physical and sexual assault of underage children. So there is that to note. I guess also before we get started in case we actually use this, this is our first time using video. Oh, right. Yeah. I don't know if anyone knows who we are, like which one is which. So I am Cassie.

Hello. I am Danielle. Hello. Yeah, we have no idea what we're doing three years in almost. This is our first time. We usually record via video, like we can see each other obviously, but we never record it. we never like set it up fancily. And yeah, so we'll see. If this ever sees the light of day. But if it does, hello, hello, hello. Here are our faces to our voices. Okay. So the 1980s, while I wasn't there,

from what I hear, it was pure chaos. At least that's what the parents thought. The American youth of the 1980s was different from previous generations and the adults were collectively losing their minds about that. And before anyone comes for me, I'm totally generalizing this age group during this time. But this generation was known to be pretty rowdy, reckless, and kind of rude to their parents, like, talking back, doing things that parents were like, back in my day, that would have never happened, you know, type of thing. So it's kind of like a shock to a lot of parents. These kids talked back, broke rules, and disobeyed. It was the heyday for hair metal bands. such as guns and roses, motley crew, and poison.

In other words, sex drugs and rock and roll was kind of king at this time. What a time to be alive. I know, I know. The world was changing. Although I probably still would be, like, at my house with a blanket and tea and not out there. I appreciate the people who are. Think back to your, I don't know, when you're like 15, 16. I was way more adventurous.

I was way more adventurous and fearless of my life when I was. With 16 and 17, the amount of times my mom was like, oh, yeah, she's at her friend's house sleeping here. And I was actually in a field dying somewhere. Right. Sorry. She listens to this podcast. Well, you're alive.

I made it. Yeah. So that's kind of like the age you have to think of. Because, yeah, if you were 30 in 1980, it would be different. They're teenage, preteens and teenagers. Yeah. The world was changing. And the concern for the nation's children, which were.

facing a quote-unquote crisis was running deep. Daytime television shows were full of talk shows discussing the question of what are we going to do with these kids, while news stations flashed Ronald and Nancy Reagan speaking to the drug and alcohol epidemic that was sweeping the nation. Many parents were at their wits end with their defiant, unmanageable children. So imagine their surprise and relief when they'd crack open the newspaper to see an advertisement speaking directly to them and to their situations. As if it had been dropped straight from the heavens and answer to all of their prayers.

In bold lettering, in one simple question, it asked, defiant teenager, and then they'd read on. Is your teenager irresponsible, rebellious, or out of control? Headed down a path with no future, help your son or daughter before it's too late.

Powerful 63-day wilderness survival program stops self-destructive behavior and places parents back in control. Youth learn responsibility, discipline, appreciation for home and family while gaining self-esteem. Wow, that is quite the advertisement. Bingo. Like, say no more. They're on board.

Yeah, my teenagers, unruly. Please help. And this isn't a time well before modes of therapy that we're accustomed to today are widely available. Access to online resources is non-existent. So to many, this was a really fitting solution because this is. a group of parents and their children that this isn't just like they're acting up and talking about this is like they're at their wits end. They've tried other things. They've tried a bunch of stuff.

And it's just nothing seems to be working. And there's a real fear that the children are going down a really dark road that's going to end in either prison time or death or something like that. And then this too good to be true flyer pops up. Right. And all their problems are about to be solved. Yes. And I want to say like what I just described is a lot of cases, but there are some cases where the defiant rebellious teenager that was the parents were at their wits end about were completely, I think, normal by today's standards. Like they like to smoke weed and drink and hang out with their friends and they didn't meet curfew. Like I don't know if it warranted. That's almost every teenager that isn't a really good kid. Right. Yes. At some age, you know. Yep. So parents were willing

signing their children up for wilderness therapy programs because they truly believe that they were doing what was right for them. In some cases, this proved to be true, but in others, it was a deadly mistake. After signing away their parental rights and forking over $16,000, the Challenger Foundation would take over, completely unbeknownst to the teenager. They would be kidnapped from their homes, sometimes being woken up in the middle of the night from a dead sleep and ripped from their beds by two or or more people that they had no idea who they were, they would be forcibly removed from their homes and driven or put on a plane and flown off to the remote Utah desert where they'd begin their 63-day, 500-mile hike through the wilderness of the Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument.

Wow, that's traumatic. I will say I'm a little bit familiar with wilderness therapy because it's very prevalent today, too, not just in the 80s. and there is a lot of research behind it that it can be helpful and is, but I'm assuming that this story is not going to lead that way. But I do know that programs still do that where they will basically kidnap the kids because the fear is that if you tell the kids beforehand, they're going to run off, they're not going to go. But if you surprise them and just show up and make them leave. So I know that some programs are still doing that, which is, I think, very

traumatic personally. I think it would be a last resort to scare someone like that. Yeah. No matter what the situation. I mean, if it was really a dire situation where you knew that they were going to run off and their life was in danger or whatever, I think may be surprising. But surprising someone was something like that and no chance to say by to family, say by to friends, thinking they're being kidnapped. I mean, that's a whole new trauma that you just created for someone who probably already has a lot of traumatic experiences. It's a lot. And we will get into the thick of the discussion about kind of like the ethical and moral standpoints of different parts of wilderness therapy programs as they exist today. Because like you said, they are still wildly popular. But yeah,

this is a completely different. This is an extreme that will, you'll see pretty soon. A whole other animal. Yeah. But before we get into the Challenger Foundation, we got to talk about the location because when I first watched this documentary, a couple things happened. The first thing I'll get to at the very end, because it's a nice surprise kind of. But the second thing was, I wonder if this has a national park tie in. It's in the middle of Utah. It's a national park. And right on the screen, it flashed the national monument. So I'm like, yep, well, it counts. So we're going to talk about the national monument a little bit. Established in 1996, this national monument spans over 1.8 million acres throughout southern Utah, covering five life zones from low-lying

desert to coniferous forest. I said carnivorous, I think. Yeah, you did. I was like, what's a carnivorous forest? It's like, everywhere. It's like, that's new. Oh, God. Okay. So fun. Caniferous forests. Its vast and rugged terrain is full of colorful sandstone cliffs and the most extensive network of slot canyons in the entire world. The ancestral Pueblen and Fremont people expertly utilize this land and their descendants, including people from the Hopai, Pai, Zuni, U, and Navajo tribes have strong ties to this land today, leaving behind rock art panels, occupation sites, campsites, and more. This is a hot spot for hiking and canyaneering and is a less populated but just as beautiful option to the Utah's Mighty Five.

Mountain lion, coyotes, and bighorn sheep thrive here along with dozens of reptile and amphibian species. More than 200 species of birds, including the endangered California condor, can also be found here. The land is among the most remote in the country and was the last to be mapped in the contiguous United States, which I thought was a wild fact. That is interesting. And for transparency, I have to say it because I would be lying to everyone if I didn't. Well, I wouldn't be lying. I'd just be omitting. But this national monument was actually the first to be managed by the BLM rather than the National Park Service. So is it still not under the National Park Service? Correct. Yeah. So plot twist. This isn't even a National Park unit. But it has National Park in its title in the name. So that's so interesting. Interesting. Why is it a national monument if it's not? It's, I forget how many national monuments are managed by BLM versus the National Park Service, but I'm not sure how many.

It's not a lot, but it's more than a couple. I've read of them being jointly managed with BLM land. Yeah, no. To not be managed at all is interesting. Yeah, it is. But who cares? I'm 23 pages of notes in, so we're doing this story. Like scrap this. We're not doing it anymore. I can't do it. And it's funny because I did the research on the monument last. So you didn't even know until the end of the episode?

Until last night. I'm like, well, here we are. It's too late now. We're in it. We're in it. We're here. And it's a really interesting story. So I wanted to tell it regardless. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more.

Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Okay, so back to the teenagers. Many, if not all of them, had never been anywhere like the Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument in their entire lives. and now they would be dropped right into the middle of it. They would be met by a group of other teenagers, bewildered, confused, anxious, and sometimes irritated. They would be given minimal gear.

We're talking a sleeping, like, blanket, not even a full sleeping bag at times, just like a blanket to throw on the ground, and a pack that would be provided for them. And they would be provided with food, but not much of it. The camp counselors would follow a harsh military-like boot camp style. approach. And when I watched the documentary, they have a lot of archival footage of kind of like boots on the ground type of like in the thick of it. And it reminded me a lot of like if, do you remember scared straight that show? Yeah. It reminded me of that with like an outdoor twist type of thing. Like you know how like people would like, what were they? What are they called in jail? Prison guards. They would be like up in the kids' faces and yelling, it's like, is this what you want from your life? Like, look around, like, type of stuff.

Like, very, like, up in their face. Yeah. And then all the prison people would talk to them. And I, yeah. Yeah, but like very harsh, like rough. The goal of the camp was to wear the kids down, to break them down to help them rebuild a better, more positive person. They would try to accomplish this by deploying harsh techniques, including emotional and psychological braitment, manual labor, and strenuous activities. Techniques included but were not limited to strip searches and punishments such as adding rocks to their packs if they were packed incorrectly were given out often. And as I mentioned, food was provided, but it was extremely basic at times. And at other times, they would have to, um, the camp counselors would drag in or haul in live animals that the kids would be either forced to

kill themselves or watch while someone slit its throat, butcher them on site, and then eat that way. Oh my God. Yeah. That is very, I mean, I know a lot of people hunt and everything, but that is different. That is so different. That is so traumatic. And I'm guessing that this was an advertised on the pretty pamphlets that their parents

had seen. No. There was footage of, I think, I believe it was a sheep that was hauled in and. obviously like tied up and like all the kids like were just like oh my god and it was obviously killed in front of them and they were just like a lot of them were in shock some of them were crying some them couldn't look like it was just it was a lot that's awful and the fact that they're kind of it sounds like they're depriving them of food so it's either this or nothing and you're hiking 500 miles you need calories you need good food yeah well speaking of food if a kid was caught stealing food

they would have their hands and feet bound. Or if they were caught sharing food with someone who was hungry, both parties would have their food taken away and neither one of them would be able to eat. They would have their hands and feet bound. Yeah. This is like just the surface, just so you know. I know you're very shocked, but this is just the beginning. I am so shocked because that's so horrible.

And also part of just you would think that sharing food with someone would actually be a positive thing because you're trying to teach teenagers to be better, to be compassionate, to be better friends, to be better family members, to be better people. And you would think that them sharing and getting along with someone would actually be a positive thing, but you're punishing them because you're not feeding them appropriately and now they have to share their food because no one is getting enough sustenance. That's, I know, I know. A lot of this makes no sense. And I just, so I worked in, so I have like a little bit of a history with wilderness programs because I did. I have a degree in psychology and I worked with kids for a while. And I did a wilderness therapy program working interview for about a week. And I also worked with kids in a children's home. And I just already, I'm just, you would, I didn't agree with some of the stuff that was happening, but nothing. thing like this. Yeah, well, just wait. This is awful. Just wait. And I know I keep referring to this as like

camp, but this is in no way a camp that we may be envisioning. There was no buildings of any kind. There was no showers, bunks, dining halls, restrooms, rec rooms, nothing. Like, nothing that you would envision in a typical summer camp scenario. This was a nomadic style arrangement. So the campers would be taken on, like I said, this 500-mile journey through the Utah desert and stopping only to camp at night. And camp was like a fire and then you throw your blanket down. Like there was no tents. There was, you know, very, very basic. Yeah. The vast majority of these kids had never done any sort of hiking at all. So they're completely unprepared. They have minimal supplies. They're running on minimal calories and temperatures soaring over 100 degrees. The trek was divided into two different stages, about three different stages. And

each one of them got better a little bit. And after the first part of the hike, they'd reach stage two where they would be provided a cart to haul their gear so they weren't carrying it on their backs. But this cart had to be manned by them. So they'd have to, it looks like an ox cart. You know what I mean? Or like a rickshaw. With the two handles on the side. Yeah. I'm picturing I think what like a rigshaw has a big wagon in the back though where they're carrying supplies. And. Yep, so they switch out. They're the workhorses, basically. Yep, so there's like two of them that could fit in the front to man it from the front. And then sometimes there are kids pushing it from the back as well because this is rough turn. You're not even on a paved trail. Like, you're going over the deserty landscape. Like, this isn't easy.

This is not the type of hike that I like. No, it is not. I don't even want that heavy of a pack and they're making these kids push something like that through this. landscape. Oh my God. And then the third stage was they'd be provided with some luxuries that, and I just kind of, I didn't, nothing is funny, but I did kind of laugh. Because it's like, oh, they were provided with a butter churn or a Dutch oven. It's like who the fuck wants a butter churn? Why would you want a butter? It's like a little, like a camping pot, like a ceramic, like camping. The only thing I've ever known. Dutch oven to be is when you're with someone and they fart and then they trap you under the sheets. Does Al do that to you a lot? Because I feel like that's something he does. He tries. It's traumatic. Based on your facial expression, you're like, wait, what? They do what to these kids? This is so

horrible. Okay. Can we get back to the better turn though? Because like, what the hell? I think as a teenager, there's nothing. I would want less than a butter turn. I agree. I agree. It's like, can you just get me like, why am I churning my own butter? Like, I'm tired. It's like, I don't even want butter. Just like, okay. Sorry. We're laughing a lot for like one of the most serious episodes. I mean, I know that this is really bad. So I feel like we have to sprinkle in some somewhere or this is just going to be. It's going to go down. Yeah. It goes downhill fast. Yeah. Okay. So at the end of this 63 day bono. which is what was advertised on the pamphlet and on TV and things like that. You would think that's the end.

But the camp reserved the right to keep kids if they felt that they hadn't been reformed. And then their journey would just continue. Can I ask, is there any, like, these, what are the credentials of these people who are running and deciding these things? We'll get to that. But there is pretty much none. There is none. Okay. All the while, remember, these counts.

Counselors, look at that. Good timing. It was like my next sentence. Next thing. All the while, remember, counselors who were overwhelmingly had no or very little, formal training, previous experience with children, and who sometimes even previously were challenger participants themselves. They weren't making like friendship bracelets and singing kumbaya together. They were constantly yelling and screaming at the kids, drilling them, scrutinizing them at minimum. and abusing physically, mentally, and emotionally at worst. They were physically abusing them? Yeah, we'll get into that. So when all of this is laid out, you're probably thinking who the hell would agree to send their kid here? Like, this is not what is being advertised. But remember, this was advertised initially very, very cleverly.

And the public who were experiencing difficulties with their teenagers felt it was their last resort. And this is in a time of access to information immediately online. Like as soon as something happens nowadays, it's all over social media. Everyone in the world knows about it within a day or hours. This was not like that. Yeah. And I mean, even for me, I've said if I ever had kids and they were really going down a wrong path,

I would ship them out to a farm to do hard labor and meet people who had different values. Like if they were hanging out with the wrong people, I just think that the wilderness and like manual labor, but in a productive way where you're working with your hands, where you're working with animals, if you're working in the outdoors, is actually really therapeutic and helpful. And I've always believed that. So I think that probably in this time there were a lot of people who felt the same way, especially because social media and the internet and all these things. And television wasn't as big as it is now. I could see a lot of parents being like, yeah, ship them out, like make them do some hard stuff. They're just smoking weed, hanging out. Like,

make them put their mind to something, make them hikes. We talk about all the time that doing long hikes and people who are through hikers, it's a transformative experience. So. Well, and that's the thing. There's there's good intentions here at the foundation of this. Like at the core of what the Challenger Foundation was and what all these other camps and programs that kind of tried to copycat that or mirror that in some way ended up doing. Like the core of it was a good intention, but it just went bad so fast. It was executed horribly. Yeah.

The execution, they didn't stick the dismount. You know what I mean? Yeah. And like I said earlier, many of the parents who were sending their children here really thought that this was their last resort because the next step would be prison time or they'd get into serious trouble in another way or they would end up dead. So the serious of an intervention needed to happen. And when I say many, I'm talking over.

800 kids in the Challenger program within its first three years, which generated over $10 million in revenue. And it was all the brainchild of a man named Steve Cardizano. So let's get into him because he's going to be a central figure for the rest of this story. Stephen A. Cartazano was born on August 15th of 1955 in Modesto, California. As a baby, Steve was given up for adoption by his birth parents and adopted by a couple named Troy and Inez Harwell. The couple doted on Steve until his biological parents actually came back for him a couple of years later. And this completely devastated the couple, especially Inaz, when Steve was sent back to them. And unfortunately, he was being sent back into a really difficult home life. Steve's father was reportedly very abusive

and his mother, who struggled with a heroin addiction, spent time in and out of prison and wound up being killed when Steve was 17 years old. He struggled through junior high in high school, so when it was time to graduate and enter the workforce, instead of joining his father's concrete business, he decided to join the armed forces and he entered the Air Force. From 1974 to 1984, he served in the Air Force as a member of the 129th Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Service Unit and went on to be regarded as, quote, one of the best trained survivalists in the military. He married Deborah Lee Carr in December of 1978, and they went on to have four children together, Jennifer, Catherine, David, and Daniel. The combination of boot camp, training, and experience in the armed

forces really changed Steve's life. It gave him a sense of confidence, maturity, and a huge sense of responsibility that he believed he could pass on to others. And he did mention he also felt throughout his life. He had a really strong affinity towards youth and children in general just because he felt like he could relate to kids who struggled because he felt like he had a pretty difficult childhood himself.

So he decided to create the Challenger Foundation in 1988, which was the outdoor rehabilitation program that integrated military-like protocols that he really was an advocate for. Steve stood firmly behind his tactics.

And I watched a lot of different interviews he did during this time that the Challenger Foundation was in its heyday, and he was answering questions about his foundation. And I pulled some quotes from those interviews and things that kind of summarizes his stance on his program and kind of like his feelings about it. Okay. They, referring to kids, will be hungry, tired and dirty. Talking to them and loving them won't work. These aren't the kind of kids that are in church or are at youth dances. They are out of control, violent, will seduce your children, steal from you. They are manipulators and have learned to work the system. Stop the coddling and skip the psychiatrist,

shape up, life isn't a picnic, so take a survival course. A wilderness therapy program that's recommending you skip the psychiatrists that are trained to help you. Yeah. Yeah. And also, at the end of the day, these are children and children who are acting out in those ways are usually because of severe trauma. And while I think that structure and like a strong arm to be better and not to be like completely coddling, I agree with, but also children need love and affection and to be told that they're worthy and not treated otherwise. Well, that didn't happen at this camp.

And Steve was someone who in his heart of hearts believed that people are made better by trial and struggle, so he designed his wilderness camp to do just that. From the conditions out in the elements, the physical exertion in the form of long, arduous hikes, to the way that they were treated by staff. So all around, break you down to build you up. Steve ingrained the message that the participants were there for a reason, because they were bad and not to be trusted. And this trickled down to the leaders on the ground with the kids,

which created a culture of mistrust and an out-of-wack power dynamic, Because while Steve was, like I said, the brainchild, he was the man behind the curtain. He wasn't really, he did spend some time, obviously, in the desert and at the camps. But by and large, he was not there. He was at, like, the offices which were located in Provo. And he was doing other things. He was handling the advertisements, hiring, firing, budget stuff. Like, he wasn't really acting as a counselor.

Okay. So his staff and the leaders that were there, like they kind of led by example. And Steve is the example. So if that's how he's, Steve is thinking of the kids. I hate calling them counselors because they're not. But just for the sake of the story. The counselors. Yeah, that were there. You know, that's how they were treating the kids because that's the model that they learned from Steve. So the leaders would doubt or altogether dismiss any complaints or concerns from the kids. And that's the kids. And that's the leaders would doubt or altogether dismiss any complaints are concerns from the kids. kids, whether they said they weren't feeling well, they were tired or they were hurt, they were told or physically forced to suck it up and continue on. They would at times withhold medical treatment and were far out of reach of law enforcement. A previous participant named Nadine, who joined the Challenger camp in 1989 at the age of 15, recalled having to use T-shirts as toilet paper and tampons to use as hair ties for the string, and referred to the vibe of the camp as a very like Lord of the Flies.

type of style. And to give an idea of the belief system the counselors were running on, Steve's kind of second in command right-hand man who ended up serving as the field director for the Challenger Foundation, who was on the ground with the kids a lot. His name was Lance horsehair Jagger. And he was quoted as saying, there is a time and a place for corporal punishment. A good spanking can do wonders. I may be old school, but humans need parameters. Otherwise, there is anarchy. So that's the vibe. that is going on in the desert with these kids. And again, it's like, the core of what you're saying with structure and needing guidelines and parameters, great. But then you lost it. You lost me.

But then you added violence into it and beating other people's children. And that's the theme of this whole thing. This is the world that the kids were literally kidnapped and forced into. After coming to terms with this was the reality and enduring time marching through the wilderness, the hardest thing to many of the kids wasn't the elements, the lack of food or the physical or the emotional abuse. It was knowing deep down that their parents did this to them. And that was really difficult for a lot of kids to come to terms with. And I do have to note that while the vast majority of participants look back on this time of their lives as really dark and difficult to reflect on, they've had to undergo years and years of therapy and still are battling it to this day,

you know, over two decades later, some of the kids did well and even thrived in this type of situation. Viewing it as sort of a like a right of passage into adulthood, it gave them this opportunity to reflect on their lives and their decisions at home and how they treated people. And some of the kids really did come out the other side better and were thankful for their experience. But it's also important to note that those success stories is what Steve really leaned into and advertised and proclaimed that they were this foundation and this tactic was saving lives. But what those success stories were being used to overshadow was absolutely terrifying. In June of 1990, a camper named Matthew entered the program. His mother, Carrie, firmly believed that she was out of options and her son was completely out of control with

drug use and getting into trouble with authorities. It didn't matter if he was getting into trouble with school, his parents, the police, nothing phased him. Like, it didn't matter where the punishment was coming from. He just kind of didn't give a shit. And she was really, really worried for him. Matthew hadn't been in Utah long before he was desperate to return to the comforts of home. Afraid he'd be out there for an extended amount of time and finally deciding he simply didn't want to be in the desert any longer, one morning he refused to get up. When his counselors tried to rouse him, Matthew continued to refuse, he was not going to move. He was adamant that he just, he was done. After a lot of heavy back and forth and yelling and, you know, yada yada, going back from the, the counselors and him,

the counselors ended up bounding his feet together and they started to drag him across the ground. Every 40 to 50 feet, they would stop and ask him again, okay, are you ready to hike again? Are you ready to go now? And Matthew was, even though he was an excruciating pain, he remained adamant. He was not going to go anywhere with them, despite having the skin scraped off of his back. Jesus Christ. Counselors notified Steve of this situation because they're like, we do not know what to do. Like, this kid will not get up. They were torturing him and he's not breaking.

And he's not breaking. What do we do? Yeah, this is awful. Steve ended up coming. He arrived to the campsite the next day to speak to Matthew, at which point Matthew was told and reminded it was his fault that this had happened to him. and Matthew was eventually removed by state and social services and brought to a nearby hospital. The doctors were stunned at Matthew's condition.

He was emaciated and had over 80 injuries and wounds to his back and torso, all in various stages of healing that he had incurred while being dragged throughout the desert. Law enforcement was immediately notified, and Max Jackson, who at the time was serving as the sheriff for Kane County, Utah, arrived and was shocked by what he saw in Matthew. Mr. Jackson had been first made aware of the program earlier that year. So he knew about the program, but because they were kind of so far out there and like out of touch and contact with everyone, there was kind of like a rogue operation that he, he wasn't very familiar with them, but he knew of them. And he had a general understanding of the way the program operated and the goal of the camp. But he had no inclination whatsoever that there was this level or any level of abuse going on. When Word got back to, Steve and horsehair. I got to call him horsehair because that's how he refers to himself in the documentary. But he's the field director about what had happened with Matthew. Horsehair said he was mad. He remarked that while some of the things they did could be interpreted as abusive,

there was a very fine line that and that no one should be beat up. So they were pissed that this had happened to Matthew. I mean, over 80 injuries, that's for a child. Yeah. Matthew's mother was flown in and given a hotel all paid for by the Challenger Foundation, but she removed her son as soon as she saw his condition. He left with his life, which unfortunately was not the case for 16-year-old Kristen Chase. Born in 1973 to Sharon Fuqua and Ronald Chase, Kristen was living in Florida at the time that her mother decided to send her to the Challenger Foundation. Growing up, her family had no concerns for Kristen, and they fully adored her until she began showing signs of rebellion as she entered her teenage years. Their sweet, lovable daughter started

acting out. But after failing the 10th grade and actually overdosing on antidepressants, Kristen's mother took action and had employees take her daughter from their home in Florida against her will on June 23rd of 1990. On June 27th, 1990, Max Jackson, so this is roughly four days later. Like this is pretty much the same week. Yeah, immediately. Max Jackson then, who was the share, was driving with another member of law enforcement when they received a call from dispatch about a problem on the Kaperowitz Plateau involving a young female from the Challenger Foundation who had collapsed, was unresponsive, and was en route to a local hospital. Hours prior, Steve and Horsehair were at the Foundation's main offices in Provo when they got a call

about the incident regarding Kristen. Not knowing the severity of this situation, but knowing it was very bad. They immediately flew down via a helicopter to the location and landed right in front of the ambulance where Kristen was actively receiving CPR. Life-saving measures failed, and she was pronounced dead on the scene. Shortly after Kristen's death, led by Max Jackson, law enforcement raided the Challenger Foundation's offices in Provo, gathering boxes of records, and combing through the paperwork, reviewing the circumstances around Kristen's death, and just trying to figure out what the hell happened here. And they, ended up charging Steve with negligent homicide.

Kristen's death and the negligent homicide charge made headlines nationwide and put Steve directly in the crosshairs of an influx of public scrutiny, especially after the details of the civil suit, Kristen's father filed against Steve and the Challenger Foundation started to come to light. According to a July 1991 Desert News article, which reported on all of the details of the suit, this article said that Ronald had no idea his daughter had to been forced to enroll in the program because he was not living with Kristen at the time. Kristen was living with her mother in Florida. So he was unaware that this was even happening. That this even happened. And that quote, Kristen was not an athletic child. She had lived essentially

at sea level with her mother for years. Her medical history forwarded to the Challenger Foundation by her mother indicated that Kristen suffered from bouts of coughing up blood, stomach pain, urinary burning and frequency, difficulty running, menstrual difficulty running, menstrual difficulty, and a knee injury. Despite this medical report, Kristen was forced to participate in strenuous activities at the 6,000 foot elevation in extreme heat as soon as she arrived at the camp. Despite being upset, frightened, and ill, Kristen was forced to participate in a four to five mile hike each day in temperatures exceeding 95 degrees. She was not given a proper physical exam or any conditioning activities prior to the hikes. On the evening prior to her death, Kristen told one of the

Challenger counselors that she was afraid of dying in the program and the counselor wrote on the evaluation form, quote, Kristen's number one short-term goal is to get out of here safe and alive. Camp officials forced her to participate in another five-mile hike on June 27. The hike began in the morning. By late afternoon, she showed symptoms of heat exhaustion. Her condition worsened rapidly. When Kristen Chase stopped breathing, Challenger officials refused to contact a fully equipped medical helicopter service 30 minutes away in Page, Arizona, because of an ongoing disagreement

over an unpaid bill from Challenger to that helicopter service. Instead, Challenger summoned a tour helicopter from Bryce Canyon National Park, according to the complaint. So not someone who has medical training at all? Well, from a tour service also. And someone that's farther away. And this, by the way, is still just directly quoted from the suit, by the way. Like, these aren't. Okay. This is like word for word in the civil suit. The pilot had to fly to Escalante to pick up a nurse and did not reach Kristen Chase until 6.15 p.m. At which point she had already died.

So that's what happened to Kristen. And when these details came to light, like her father and everyone involved was like what the hell? And while this suit and the negligent homicide case was unfolding, Max Jackson was flooded with calls and letters from concerned. parents because now it's in the news. The Challenger Foundation is in the news and not for a good reason. And they're like, if this happened to this girl, like, what is happening? Is my kid okay? Like, you know, so all of a sudden they're contacting law enforcement that's local to where the camp is and they are inquiring what the deal is. And he actually stated that the Challenger Foundation ended up taking over his life for many years because this just keeps going. Children started coming

forward saying they were starved, deprived of water, forced to eat lizards, abused and tied to trees, and were denied proper medical care after suffering hypothermia after a river crossing. In total, five misdemeanor counts of child abuse were eventually added to the charge. On top of that, insurance companies started coming forward as well, because Steve, like I said, charged $16,000 to the parents to enter their kids into this program. But he also had a huge stream of of income coming from the insurance companies because he was billing those companies for the kids treatment. So the parents paid and the insurance companies paid? Yes. And now that the insurance companies were like, okay, this is the treatment that you're billing us for, like forcing kids to,

you know, truck through 500 miles of desert. Like there is no therapist on staff that is doing sessions with them or, you know what I mean? Medical practices are we supporting right now? Exactly. So they're like, we want that back. So they jump on board on the suits that are being filed against Steve. And the lawsuit started piling up, which garnered even more nationwide negative publicity. Meanwhile, Steve thought Kane County wanted to destroy him. They're like, oh, they just want to, they just want me out of here. And there's a personal thing against me. So they're out to get me. Yeah. That's exactly what he thought. I haven't done anything wrong. And he was adamant that despite the unfortunate death of Kristen Chase, his program worked and was doing nothing wrong. Nothing.

Publicly, that's what he said. And I will say that in the documentary, his wife is interviewed extensively. And because obviously she has a lot of behind the scenes knowledge. So publicly, this is what Steve saying and all that. And I don't think she ever alluded to any, like, he thought that it was personally his fault. Like, I think he was truly adamant that it wasn't his fault in particular, but he did feel some sort of sense of responsibility and sadness over this and obviously the case with Matthew and different things that like even though his hands weren't directly involved, it's his foundation and he feels a sense of responsibility. She's like, it destroyed him. He was so upset and she's crying, you know, it's a whole thing.

So there's that to consider. What was me? You just killed someone and you are still backing your foundation and not even I'm looking into it. But it still works. No, I don't feel bad for him at all. He was adamant that despite, like I said, Kristen's death, things were still good. Like, this was just an outlier type of situation is kind of what he was saying. It's a major outlier that needs to be investigated.

Yeah, right. He kept saying that he had seen so many positive transformative experiences and grateful families that he wasn't going to, quote, let a bunch of bureaucrats come down and dictate what I do. What about the other little boy that had 80 injuries and was dragged across the desert? Yeah, this isn't like an isolated incident. And now you have a bunch of other kids coming forward saying that they receive similar treatment too. So yeah. What? Well, he may have put on a brave face publicly behind the scenes, things were not looking good.

The lavish life he had built up from his success, including a large, beautiful home, horses for his wife, luxury cars. Things were starting to crumble. All of that started going away. His wife Deborah reflects on that time as very dark for the family, saying that they lost virtually everything. The foundation had declared bankruptcy and was forced to shut down, leaving Deborah a little choice but to take up a position working at a local department store to make ends meet. Nearly two years later, the trial came to a close. The jury took six and a half hours to deliberate and came back with their verdict, not guilty on all charges. What?

How? All the child abuse and neglect charges on the negligent homicide charge, literally everything. How? He was just allowed to operate that way? So Charles Broffman, who was Steve's defense attorney, later said that Steve was actually during the trial very worried that he would lose. And because he didn't want to leave his family and his four small children, he was nervous. But all Charles had to do, essentially, was to prove the prosecutor's theory of the case wrong. And that stance was essentially, the prosecutor's stance, was essentially that Kristen Chase was hiked too hard and died from heat stroke. So in a nutshell, that's what they're arguing.

So the defense's tactic was to use the autopsy report to speculate if other contributing factors had something to do with her death, such as toxic shock syndrome or septic shock, in order to cause reasonable doubt that there were other things at play, not just exertional heat stroke, that the prosecution. was saying was her sole cause of death. And although the autopsy report revealed internal organs to be somewhat consistent with heat stroke, there was reason to believe or consider that there were other factors at play and that worked in Steve's favor. So basically, the defense caused reasonable doubt in the jury that yes, she did have indications of heat stroke, but she had other medical issues going on and who's to say if... What were the issues? They had, she had some septic shock things or in toxic shock syndrome that was listed on the autopsy report. And then also her medical record that was forwarded by her mother to the Challenger Foundation said that she had met those.

Well, they ignored those, yeah, for when she was first there. But now all of a sudden, they're important. Like those things wouldn't have killed her if she wasn't being pushed to the limit in 90 degree weather. Right. Well, that's the thing. I know. It's like, okay, well, she was already had those things in Florida. And she was alive. Yeah. So and obviously a lot of people were completely shocked over the verdict. And I do want to say to be transparent with all of the different other. And I kept seeing, I kept seeing either five additional cases of child abuse or neglect or nine. So different

sources had different things. Anywhere from five to nine were formally filed as lawsuits against Steve and all of them he came back acquitted for or not guilty for. So I don't know the ins and outs of those particulars because I, this episode is already long enough. I was like, I can't get into the specifics. But essentially, you get the main point. I'm not guilty on everything. Yeah. Everything. I know. After being acquitted, Steve was quoted as saying, quote, I am one happy dude. I was always confident that once we got this case out of the state in the media and into a court of law, I would be cleared of all allegations. I'm going to go home, hug my children, hug my wife, and sleep for three days. Now I can get back to taking care of my family.

For the first time in two years, I'm not going to have this hanging over me. Sharon, Kristen's mother, moved to Malta following her daughter's death and went on to start a Maltese branch of the organization called Compassionate Friends, which is a group of parents who have lost children. She made the difficult decision to not return for the trial. But after hearing the verdict, she said, I don't think Cartasano is an evil man and I don't think he's done anything intentionally. But I felt all along that if Cardassano got off Scott-Free, then the same mistakes would happen again. And oh, how right, she would be. Crispy chicken sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and

reflect. Like I know I'm a handful. I'm bold. I'm juicy. Throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me and baby I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet. No. Krispy, saucy and $4? Very. Only at 711. Valley 36, participating stores only while supplies last the app for full terms. Following the trial, Steve had been economically destroyed. Like I said, his family was struggling really hard financially. And over a two-year span, the Challenger Foundation was no more. He was really concerned of what to do. He was worried that he couldn't be able to provide for his family, especially after his name had been at the center of this really public, very damning trial, despite the outcome in his favor. Like, yeah, technically on paper, it worked out in his favor, but in the court of public opinion, he lost big time. Yeah. His wife urged him to change careers after the court case was done. She's like, please do anything else.

Like, you're a smart guy. Please. Please go. Let's figure something else out. But Steve was still adamant that wilderness programs could help children. He hadn't ruled out the possibility of starting another wilderness program in Utah, but he was essentially blacklisted. Social services would shut him down wherever he started to get operations up and going again. For a good reason. No. Let's shut that shit down. So whenever he tried to operate within the state of Utah, he was getting blocked and rightfully so. But this guy was relentless, knowing that he couldn't be regulated elsewhere. In November of 1993, Healthcare America opened its figurative doors on the shores of the U.S. Virgin Islands. No. Here we go.

So Steve created a very well-produced, very persuasive video, not a brochure this time, video, with actors and really nice advertising that was promoting his new program. Instead of hiking, no, he's changing it up, okay? So instead of hiking, he put kids on boats. And Steve was completely undeterred, even going on to charge more for this program. At times, the boat was anchored on shore and the kids would be made to hike on the island and throughout the island and do different land-based activities, kind of like in Utah. But mostly, they were just out in the water, away from people and therefore away from watch. full eyes. This program was marketed so well. It was able to attract really affluent families and people from like the Rockefeller family to the grandson of a prominent Arkansas governor were being sent there.

Like this wasn't just anyone off the street. Like first of all, he's charging more. And second of all, this promotional video was so well done that it looked so legit. Is it still supposed to be a wilderness thing? Like, but now you're in the ocean? It's more of like a, um, it's not like a true. wilderness thing. It was marketed more luxurious, but it was still the, like, the advertising was like, do you have a divine teenager? Do you have a rebellious kid? Like, have them come here and be reformed. It's the same structure. It's just on a boat. And instead of doing, like, campfires and hiking, you're doing, like, running a ship type of thing. Like being a crew and hiking on the islands and stuff like that. I mean, in theory, it sounds fun. I would fucking hate that. I'm

Sorry. I would absolutely hate that. I have a thing of being like, I'm good on a boat for like two hours. It's like, and get me off. Like I want to be on land or like able to move around, not on just this one little floating vessel all the time. There's nowhere to go. And I don't know. So to me, this one's, I don't know. It's hard to pick. But for me personally, I think I would fare better in Utah. But anyway, so once again, many families. thought this was a legitimate, reliable solution to their problem of their troubled teens. It wasn't long until Chris Smith, a reporter from the Salt Lake Tribune caught wind of this operation. In July of 1993, and it's like, this is like six to nine months after he's been acquitted of negligent homicide. He already has this operation up and going. He already's jumping right back into it and... It's like, just...

Learn your lesson. Just stop. Just, yeah. In July of 93, members of a research station that was stationed in the U.S. Virgin Islands, they contacted a newspaper after a boat had approached the island that they were on. And this group of people consisting of teenagers and a few different adults came ashore. And when these researchers went up to the group, like, hey, what are you doing here? They were informed that they were there for quote unquote training under the organization called Healthcare of America.

The research station employees noted pretty quickly, though, that something was pretty off. The kids look completely disheveled, dirty. They're like, what is happening here? They don't look well. And there didn't seem to be much structure, especially when you said you're there for training. There was no formal structure of training going on. There was no rhyme or reason to what was happening. It just seemed really sketch.

So the head of the research station was concerned and called the U.S. Virgin Islands Better Business Bureau to inquire about this organization to get details on them and see, you know, what was up. Turns out, health care of America had no license to do business in the U.S. Virgin Islands. So this was an entirely covert. Illegal operation? Operation going on. So not only did they have no license, that means there's no law enforcement acknowledgement. There's no public health inspections.

There's no permits. There's no licensing. There's no anything going on. No one knows they're there. Yeah. No one knows what's going on. That's like the basic of starting. his business and he couldn't even follow through with that. Yeah. So authorities catch on,

catch wind of what's going on pretty immediately. And they immediately issue paperwork ordering all activities and operations to stop immediately. So Steve takes off literally. He had the captain set sail to another, and then another, and then another. With the children? With the children. Yes. These kids had no idea what was happening, where they were going, how long they were going for, They were essentially trapped on this boat for months and months at a time. And one of the girls who was on there, her name was Ashley, she was interviewed about her time. So she was on the boat with Healthcare of America and she was there for nine months. And she said that they were being brought from island to island to island, staying just along to get just long enough to get essentials and kind of regroup before taking off again.

And she said that they went to the Virgin Islands, to Puerto Rico, to Moana Island, to the Dominican Republic, to Haiti, to Jamaica, to Venezuela, and then to Colombia. They're taking these kids around the world. Did the parents give permission for this either? Again, they sign away parental, some sort of temporary parental rights. I would never. Well, they're like fugitives, like on this boat that are just like being shuffled around the Corraluding. Law enforcement? Yeah, they are fugitive. I mean, the kids are fugitives, but the

company is and they're just dragged along for the ride. Yeah. And she recalls how scared she was feeling like it was just going on forever, never knowing when they would be able to go home. And everyone just felt like they weren't good enough to go home. Because remember, there was like a program length and then they could stay longer like if it was warranted. So in their minds, they're like, am I ever going to be good enough to return to my family? Like, what is happening here? Do my family even want me back? Like what am I just being abandoned here? Because I'm sure the program wasn't saying that either. I'm sure they were like, well, you still got to stay.

Your parents don't want you in the way you are. You're not good enough yet. Yeah, there is no way in hell. They're being transparent about what's going on, especially to kids. Especially if they're eluding law enforcement and bringing them to Columbia when they're supposed to be in the Virgin Islands. Yeah. And this is just, it gets worse.

So eventually the program gets down to five kids on this catamaran. and it's heading towards Puerto Rico. At one point, several of the kids banded together and their plan was to escape to alert for help. Because they're like, we've been here for almost a year and we don't know what's going on. We need some assistance. Something's wrong. Because we don't trust the adults that we're with. Yeah.

But they're eventually caught and the staff catches on to what they're trying to do. So in response, the captain gets tired of them trying to escape. So when they're on shore in Puerto Rico, getting supplies and things. things. He ties the kids up in a car, put nooses around their necks, and tied the rope to the car so that they couldn't get away. And people nearby see this and they're like, oh my God, they're really freaked out. They're alarmed. Law enforcement swoops in, surrounds the car. They think this is like an organized crime hit. Yeah. Or something. You put nooses around children's necks and just like leave them in the car. In public? I mean, you should do it anyway. But in public, like, what did you think was going to happen? then people are just going to walk by and be like, oh, that's cool. I don't, I really don't know. I don't understand the line of thinking. Law enforcement and public health organizations in Puerto Rico start getting involved.

And surprise, no one can find a license to operate in the country for health care of America. So regardless of like the kids in the new situation, like that's something you do with. They're not even allowed to be there. But again, Steve slips away. With the kids? No, no, no. The kids are. Oh, like, oh, sorry.

Like, we'll give them back. No, no, the kids are sent back to their families. Okay. But Steve, like, legally slips away again. Okay. And at this point, his family's financial situation is very, very bad. And his wife and his kids, again, are pleading with him. Like, because now his kids are getting older.

Like, they're not just little kids anymore. They can understand what's going on now. Like, they're starting to catch on with what's happening. And they just want a normal life. And the wife has been begging for years now to please do something else. anything else. Stop abusing children. Um, yeah. So he said, okay, all right, I hear you. I get it. But I'm going to go to American Samoa. Third times the charm. So here we are. In 1999, Steve connected with a local businessman who still supported his vision. And together, they began the Pacific

Coast Academy. Once again, the program was marketed brilliantly. A high-end brochure targeting parents of troubled teens was created and once again, it did what it was designed to do. At this point, Steve's reputation preceded him. People were catching on to him as the person behind all of these troubled programs. You know, it's been years at this point. So he began introducing himself as Steve Michaels to parents who were interested in sending their children to this academy. So now he's just straight of lying. Yeah. And these were parents who were willing to pay not $16,000, not $20,000, $25 to $30,000. $30,000. to send their kids to this academy.

And some parents were so desperate to help their children that they sold their homes to afford this steep price tag. So once again, good intentions. Like, you're going to sell your house. By the parents. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Doing anything for your children picking something that you think is genuinely going to help them.

Yeah. Willing to risk your livelihood and your home for it? You just want better for your kids. I don't blame the parents at all in any of this. I mean, they've been bamboozled and swindled and all. of the words from this guy and this guy just keeps... He's a con man. He's a con man.

Yeah. Around the same time, Steve's son, David, started to hang with the wrong crowd and he got into heavy drug use. So Steve and Deborah walked their walk and did what they told other parents to do. And they sent David to the Pacific Coast Academy and hired two men to kidnap their own son in the middle of the night to be sent to the program just like every other child. had been. So he really believed that this was a program that worked. Yeah, this wasn't like, oh, yeah, for other people. This is for other people. He's like, no, I, I so firmly believe in this that

I would do this for my own child and my own family. And now here I am doing it. God. Okay. He's about to learn. Yeah. He going to learn. In 2001, Chris Smith, that reporter from the Salt Lake Tribune, was contacted by an attorney who was given video footage from a father and son who was involved in the Pacific Coast Academy. Chris went to see this attorney because they're like, you really need to see this. And they played the TV footage for him. And what he said that he saw was like he almost fell out of his chair. He described the tape as looking like he was seeing footage from a Vietnamese prison of war camp. The kids being interviewed were covered in filth and insect bites from head to toe and were all emaciated. They described being put in

isolation for months on end and at one time one of the children said quote no matter how bad i am i don't deserve to get beat kid after kid went on to describe more details about their time there some of the kids there were there over well over a year at the academy and some of them were even 18 years old or older now yet they were forced to stay and they weren't being allowed to leave well how do you leave a place like the simos without well that's the thing without help you have no money You have no parental, there's no one around who can help you or will help you. Although, if my kid turned 18, I'd be like, hey, what's my kid up to? They're 18 now.

They're legally an adult. Yeah, well, that's the thing. A lot of these kids were actually trapped. They were trapped there. The film showed their housing, which was literally blankets on a patch of clear jungle with a fatched lean to over their heads. Like no bugnets, no mattress pads, no sleeping pads, no. no infrastructure. They were just literally in the jungle. And this was a far, far cry from what the brochure outlined. The academy was no more than a literal clearing in the jungle when the first

batch of kids arrived. And it was their job to literally build the academy from the ground up. They were building everything from sewer systems, digging ditches, laying pipe, and were involved in the general construction of every building. So this was essentially a forced labor. Yeah, Child forced labor. I mean, is he a genius? I mean, it's fucked up. It's super fucked up. But And it's like you're sending your kid. Free child labor. That you just got paid. $25,000 to send your kid to sleep on the ground and build your academy for you. What the fuck? This guy is wild. Like you said, con man. Conman. Through and through. Oh, my God. Abuse was once again a theme at this camp as

well. Aside from the months long stint in isolation, which in and of itself can be considered a form of abuse, they were forced to sit on their knees with their hands behind their heads all night long. That's like something you see in the military also, by the way. Some of them were hogtied. This time, counselors were starting to smarten up to the consequences of if they were to be found guilty of child abuse and the threat of a child abuse charge. So they often enlisted junior staff. So basically, they were promoting kids from the camp to this junior staff position to dish out punishments for them. So they're like, okay, you get this special privilege of being junior staff and this other kid is misbehaving, so beat the shit out of them. Because you can't get charged for because you're a child.

That's so messed up. It's so messed up. And hog tying anyone? Anyone. Anyone. It's just. Yeah. This last part is the worst. Who are they hiring? Also, there is no word. old where someone would hire me for a job and they would be like, hey, that kid's being bad, hog tie them, where I would be like, oh, yeah, sure. Like, where are they getting these people? It's just, well, like I said, there was no- I don't even know how to hog-tie someone. I know, I'd have to look it up. I don't know. Have to YouTube it. I'd be like, sorry. Hold on one time. Sorry, little kid, one second. Let's go through this together. This last part is devastating.

One young woman was tied to a pole and waterboarded. Then by her, and I mean, you'll watch the documentary after this, but it was a junior staff member, members that were doing this to her. And one of them was her friend from home or her acquaintance from home that she got really close to. But it was like he was forced to do this to her. And okay, so she's waterboarded. And then she sent to a village on the other side of the island to stay as a form of punishment. and she was sexually assaulted by one of the island's chiefs at this village. She was really shaking up and devastated and she told the head of the camp what was happening to her

when they checked in on her on the other side of the island, to which the counselor responded that she was basically blowing things out of proportion and she should be ashamed for accusing the chief of such an allocation and her punishment was to stay with him longer. What? There's so many elements to that that is so fucked up. the first waterboarding, that's literally a form of torture in war, that you're doing to a child. But then, who the fuck are you sending her to?

She's not part. This guy, this chief is not part of your program. No. The academy at all. How'd you choose him? And then she's blatantly saying that he's abusing her. And you tell her that she's lying when you placed her in the care of a stranger as a form of punishment. And clearly if they thought it was a punishment, they knew that he was going to

mistreat her. Right. All around. It's just so awful. And all of these revelations were on tape because these kids are being interviewed about what's going on with them. What do you mean? So this, okay, so the tape that the guy, the Salt Lake Tribune, man, Chris, was alerted by an attorney that said, hey, I have a tape that you need to watch. And the tape showed footage of the academy. It showed footage of the kids and they were interviewing kids about what was happening to them. And so this is, all this information is on this tape. While it was going on, they were being interviewed. Yeah. So this. And the parents weren't notified by the people who are being interviewed or who are interviewing them. So basically what happened was a kid. I don't know the logistics of how the

dad got involved, but maybe a kid that was at the academy alerted his dad and was like, this is fucked up and you need to see what's happening down here. And they were like whistleblowers, essentially. So the dad came down to the academy and was videotaping everything that was going on and was like, hey, what's your experience? What can you tell me? What's going on? To basically get the information out to the larger public of like, this is what's happening at this academy and everyone needs to know. Do you know how long he was doing this for? It wasn't long. It was only a couple days. This because obviously the academy wasn't going to support this. Like this is damning. I was like if this has been going on for he's covered undercover for like months.

No. Trying to get enough and there's kids being sexually abused and yeah. But wow. I mean, that's smart to go undercover, like, get in and. No, this is like a quick, like just tell me what's going on really quickly so I can get this out and. I remember you said the father-son duo, but I forgot about it and in the midst of all this other information. Yeah. Okay. So that makes more sense. Okay. So this is all on this tape. And the parent that made the video contacted the U.S. Embassy on the I. to get him and his son and the footage off the island. He's like, we need some protection here because this is some serious shit that's happening. And we need to get this out. He knew that this was wildly valuable and damning information. And he knew just how risky it was to have recorded it. And getting it back into the United States was going to be something he knew was going to try to be stopped once word got out that he had this.

The Pacific Coast Academy had caught wind that the tape was on its way off of the island. and they scrambled to do everything in their power to stop that from happening, going as far as contacting authorities at the airport to try and get them to stop the pair, saying to the authorities how badly it would hurt tourism to American Samoa. They're like, oh, this, we're worried for you. This is not going to look good for the island. It's like, you're not a tourism company, so how does that affect tourism on the island? So obviously they were just concerned from themselves.

They could give a shit about what it did. two American or tours of their going to be charged with crimes when this goes out. Yeah. What they ended up doing was they concealed the videotape in a briefcase that was carried by a U.S. embassy member who went through security

on their own separately from the father and son. And when the father and son arrived and attempted to get through security themselves, as they thought, they were pulled aside and questioned up and down by security about the tape, its location, where is it? What did you do with it? Da-da-da. And

they're like, sorry, you're too late. We already, we mailed it back to the U.S. and it's already on its way. Like, you're too late. Wait, so they were really going to comply with this company of stopping them from getting the tape off the island? I guess. I guess. What kind of messed up? I don't know. These are children. These are children. Is no one understanding that? And they were just like, oh, yeah, doors. Well, but here's the thing. They didn't know what was on the tape. They were just going off of them. because they were making threats about how bad it was going to be for tourism to their island. So the authorities at this point just had the knowledge from Pacific Coast Academy of what was on this tape.

They had no idea. Like, I'm sure if they had any inclination, what was truly on it, they would have not done that. But they're just getting their information based from the Pacific Coast Academy. So who really knows the extent of what they were told? Did they tell them what was on there when they were being questioned? No, not to my knowledge. I think they were just like, you're too late. The tape is not with us. It's already been mailed. Like let us leave. Let us through. And they did. They went through security. They got on their flight and they made it back to the U.S. It's clever because remember that it wasn't mailed.

The U.S. embassy member had it in his briefcase. So after making it through security, the tape was discreetly handed off to the father and son from the embassy official. And then they were able to board their flight and get back to America with the tape, which then ended up at their attorneys and then to the media member. As soon as the footage was shown to the media, the cat was just so out of the bag. Like, the media went wild. And this was by far the worst conditions kids had been kept in and amongst the most severe allegations of abuse that have been pointed at Steve's direction up until this point. And that's saying something. Yeah, he killed a kid. Yeah. Media trucks lined the Cardassano Street and helicopters circled their home. The U.S.

embassy went in to get the kids out. But when they arrived to the academy, it was virtually empty. They're like, where is everybody? Like, this is an abandoned camp. Steve up and left. Well, Steve again, remember, isn't here at this time. But he had them up and leave. Yeah. So they're looking around. They can't find anyone. They're like, where, where did everyone go? And all of a sudden, they hear this little like shuffling and they find this kid who's hiding appears really, really sick and was very reluctant to speak to the officials. because they were like, I don't know who you are. I don't trust anyone. Yeah.

And eventually he did tell them that he has no idea what was going on. But earlier in the day, everyone just suddenly got up and left the premises, but they didn't know exactly where they went. So upon getting this information, the officials scoured the island, looking through the jungles, going through, looking everywhere on this island for this group of children and adults. And they finally find them. Apparently they had been gathered up quickly and were told to go to the beach, a way of hiding them, I guess. Like, I don't know why they would think, oh, yeah, just go to the beach. Like, they're just going to look at the academy and be like, oh, I guess no one's here, bye. What kind of fucking thinking is that?

Go to the beach, maybe look like a family out on the beach or something. Yeah, who knows? I don't understand the line of thinking once again. So the black SUVs roll up to the beach and announce they were from the American embassy. And the kids were in shock and total disbelief. And it took them a couple of minutes to really process and understand that they had been rescued. And these are people that they can trust. I'm sure.

I'm sure there's a lot of mind games going on. So it was like, is this real? Legit. Yeah. The videotape became basis for legal action. And a grand jury took testimony from the kids, the parents, and from the Pacific Coast Academy. But this was just a couple months prior to 9-11. When the terrorist attacks took place that September, national priorities,

changed and as a result, Steve once again got away with no charges. No. How? I don't know. No one cares about this guy. They're like, oh, we have bigger fish to fry even though you're abusing 800 plus children. Over and over. Like, yeah.

Yeah. In many different ways, like versions. In different places of the world. Right. He continued on attempting to run various programs in the years following from another Samoa-based academy called New Hope to a new treatment program. at a Canadian fishing lodge. He reportedly went on to find work as a dormitory supervisor on a reservation in Oklahoma, but when a Bureau of Indian Affairs official discovered details of his

past, he was immediately fired. Steve was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer, which he battled for seven years before he passed from a heart attack in May of 2019 at the age of 63 in his Durant, Oklahoma home. He left behind a very complicated legacy, one which is clearly still hotly debated today. Most of the people who hear his story and the story of the Challenger Foundation and all of these other organizations kind of come to a variation of the same conclusion. And that is kind of what we discussed earlier that at his core, he wasn't a bad person and didn't have a bad, he didn't have bad intentions starting out, but he lost his way big time and really fumbled the ball and hurt a lot of people and made a lot of bad decisions. But that all depends on who you ask.

I don't agree. I mean, I don't agree at all. I think he's a horrible person. And I think that his intentions were pretty clear right off the bat. I think his intentions were... I think he had an idea of how it would go. And then when his ideas were wrong, he never did anything to fix it. Yeah. See, that's what, like, I started this whole journey with what I think about Steve Cardizano as that. As like, he's not a bad guy. He just, he's doing it all wrong. But then like the more and more and more, like at your first opportunity to make good on a fuck up and you didn't, end of game. And then you continued to make poor decisions and elude the law and put children in harm's way. And it's just like that that changed my mind. He is a bad guy. I mean, maybe at one point he went into it thinking he had good intentions, but good intentions don't mean much when the actions are horrible. So I think that he is not a good guy. Yeah.

It's, I think a lot of people are with you. Charles Broffman, if you remember, he was Steve's defense attorney mentioned in the documentary, Hell Camp Teen Nightmare, that Steve never paid him for his services during the negligent homicide case. and that he actually never heard from him or about him, again, until the production company for the documentary got involved. So it's like, again, another tick in the con list over here. The guy who got you off Scott Free from murder, you didn't pay. Yeah, essentially. Another revelation that the documentary uncovered was a sexual assault allegation.

Kinney Edlinger was 13 years old when she was sent to join the Challenger Foundation program. There, she claims her breasts were fondled by Steve. So this is different because this isn't a counselor or someone he does, you know, he's not responsible for. This is him directly. By Steve, despite her insistence that he stopped, his response was, it's no big deal. She did not initially report the incident, but later divulged what happened to her to her mother. Her mom didn't have a very supportive response sticking on Steve's side, saying that he was doing good, things for kids and she didn't want to, quote, upset the apple cart by bringing attention to what

happened to Kinney. Poor girl. Kinney came forward after she learned of Steve's passing online, which brought up an array of emotions which she had suppressed for years and is currently active on the Challenger Foundation Survivor's Facebook community page, which acts as a support group. As this allegation came following his death, the family, which actually it came during the documentary. Like, this is the first time that she publicly made this big announcement about what happened to her. And Steve's family obviously was told his wife and his children that were

interviewed were told about the allegation and the documentary closed with the following. The family did not wish to comment or challenge the sexual assault allegations, but felt, quote, such behavior does not align with the memory of the person that Steve was. So that's their stance on that. So they don't want to say she's wrong and that didn't happen. But they are. But they also are like, but he wouldn't do that. It's like, are you sure? And it's just so hard because like these are people that were Steve's family.

Like this is his wife and his children. And at the time that the documentary was filmed, he had just passed away like a year or two or three, you know, within the first few years of his passing, they're going to defend him, I think, in any way that they can. And while Deborah, his wife and one of his children that were interviewed extensively during the documentary, they do say, you know, they do own up to things that Steve did. They're like, not the greatest, you know, but at the same time, it's very clear that they're still, they still love him. And when you love someone, you're not going to see it. from an outside perspective necessarily. So there's a lot involved in that. Yeah. Well, I believe her.

And I think that. Well, why the fuck would she make that out? And like now. And I, any woman who comes forward and comes forward with sexual assault allegations, I believe 100% all the time. There's never been an instance where I do not believe them. And I think that her to come out so. In such a public way. In such a public way on Netflix. I mean, millions of people. people watch Netflix. And to come out and say that, that's a really hard and brave thing to do. So, I mean, I'll reiterate my statement before. I think that Steve is a bad guy and or was a bad guy. And even though his family is his family and you defend your family or whatever, he was a child abuser. And we have it point blank here. He either was initiating it himself or he was directly

involved with it happening, which makes him a bad person. And you. You can't, I mean, you can't defend that. Like, he's dead. Don't talk ill about the dead. But you do. I mean, he was a bad person. I mean, a fact is a fact. And the facts are there.

And it's hard to, it's hard to warp them over and over and over and over, you know, into your favor. So, okay, we still have a little bit more to go. But that's Steve's story and the Challenger Foundation's story. And like we kind of discussed earlier, wilderness therapy camps are still in existence today, and copycats following the basis of Steve Cartizano's Challenger Foundation are running as we speak. There are hundreds of these therapy programs running with thousands of participants, the existence of which continue to garner very, very mixed feelings amongst the public. For example, two former employees of the Challenger Foundation who actually testified against Steve in return for immunity from prosecution. went on to found an outdoor survival school themselves. Publicly denouncing Steve's allegedly abusive ways, Bill Henry and Lance Jager, so horsehair,

horsehair, remember him? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's Lance. Okay. Lance and another guy, Bill Henry, were licensed by Utah and began operating a teen wilderness program in 1992. Called North Star Expeditions, it's the same company that was accused and later convicted in the negligent death of Aaron Bacon.

And I'm going to end with Aaron's story because at first I was just going to be like, okay, point made there was another negligent death. Like we don't need to get into it. But we do because it's awful. And just because it wasn't tied directly to the Challenger Foundation, like the Challenger Foundation is the reason that this North Star existed. And anyway, so I want to just tell his story a little bit. So the 16-year-old had died on the rugged terrain of the Escalante River Canyon within

Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument in March of 1994 of acute peritonitis resulting from a perforated ulcer that developed after several days of hiking. And for brevity, I'm just going to read verbatim from an article in the Desert News that reported on this case to just show how horrifying this is. Like, I don't want to summarize it. I don't want to put it in my own words because what happened is awful and the Desert News did a great job summarizing it. According to testimony at the trial, Craig Fisher, who was found guilty of abuse or neglect of a disabled child, and other North Star staff members teased Bacon when he complained about feeling ill and disciplined him by withholding food and forcing him to sleep in below freezing weather without a sleeping bag or a blanket. At times, Bacon's meals consisted of raw lizard, cooked scorpion, prickly pear, and pine needle tea. Ten days before his death, Bacon wrote in his journal, quote,

I am in terrible condition here. My hands are all chapped and my lips are cracking. I feel like I'm losing control of my body. He also wrote that severe incontinence had caused him to soil his pants. He said that when he mentioned that to staff members, they ridiculed him in front of the other students. After that, he was excluded from the group Burrito, where everyone slept close together under a tarp to stay warm. Other students on the expedition testified that by March 29th, Bacon was pale and really sick. skinny. One described him as looking like a Jewish person in a concentration camp. Bacon complained that his stomach hurt and that he was feeling dizzy. While hiking, he reportedly fell. The night before he died, he vomited and was moaning. Fisher told him to stop it, according to testimony at the trial,

while the other students ate dinner and wrote in their journals. Bacon sat away from the group, his head tilted to the side, his jaw agape, and drooling. Fisher told him to stop droolie and actually mimicked him. He told Fisher that he did not want to die. and Fisher assured him that he would not. The following morning, it took Bacon about an hour to crawl the 20 feet from his shelter to the campfire. Fisher and another staff member carried Bacon to the latrine and left him there. When they returned, they found that he had fallen into the latrine and his feet were covered in excrement. Later, Bacon was taken to a truck for transport to an area where he could be seen by an emergency medical technician.

For the next few minutes, the staff made fun of Bacon and imitated his collapse. When Bacon slouched over in the truck, they unbelted him, checked for a pulse, and began CPR, radioed North Star for help. A physician's assistant who arrived on the scene testified that Bacon was so gone that he didn't even recognize him as the same boy he had examined just a few weeks earlier. Bacon, whose weight had dropped from 131 pounds to 108 pounds, was transported by helicopter to a hospital in Page, Arizona, where he died. So that's what happened to Aaron Bacon. That is horrible. That is... It makes me want to cry. Yeah.

And the fact that they were making fun of him and the conditions and when you described him falling into the toilet pretty much, that is so fucking awful. And I just don't understand how a counselor can sit and watch this happening and to see a child becoming so emaciated and pale and he can't move 20 feet and you think he's He's faking. Like, what kind of people are? Who does this to anyone, but especially a child? Yeah. It's awful. And it's just, so I just wanted to share that condensed version of his story because it's not like it's not just like with Kristen Chase. It's like she died of exertional heat stroke. Let's just say that. I mean, allegedly or whatever. We all know. Like, yeah. The conditions that she was forced to hike in and the thing she was she was made to do contributed to her death at the bare minimum. She wouldn't have died that day if she wasn't where she was.

Right. And I know that Steve and the foundation and whatever got off on that because there was like, well, maybe there was other things going on that contributed to it. But like Aaron's story is just such, there is no room for debate that he was, I mean, he died. in the hands of people who were supposed to be helping him. And there was one other negligent homicide case, death of a child case that is also involved in, like, the wilderness therapy world. But you get the idea. So despite stories like Aaron and Christens and many others, we talked about a lot of different abuse situations, the popularity of the industry has only continued to grow with time with the promise of assisting child. children, teenagers, and young adults from struggles with mental health issues, substance use,

or difficult challenges, and life circumstances. Given today, times have certainly changed, and these programs are being, by and large, led by professionals, they're fully accredited and licensed, they have trained staff, there's medical and mental health professionals on staff, not to mention proper access to shelter, food, clean water, medical attention, and not weeks later. They're under the eye of the law. they're not out in the middle of nowhere just existing off the map. Even if they are, you know, outdoor, like there's still people who are aware of what's going on.

Yeah. The ethical and oftentimes traumatic nature of wilderness therapy programs continues to be very divisive. And obviously we've talked about that. You've had your own experience with just job shadowing. I know that you didn't end up taking the position, but it's a big thing. And you type in Google right now, wilderness therapy program. program, there's tons, especially out in my area, like Colorado, Utah, Montana, like. They're really big outless for sure. I mean, I think that if anyone were to type it in right now

and do wilderness therapy program near me, something is going to come up. Even if it's not in your state, it might be a state over from you. Yeah. There's a lot still in operation. And a lot of them did get, you know, their foundation from Steve. And the Challenger Foundation, obviously they executed it a lot differently. And like I said, times change and there's different things. And while we could go back and forth amongst ourselves, you know, in circles about the pros and cons and what we think and our personal feelings about wilderness therapy programs, we haven't had any personal experiences with them. So it's hard to have a deep discussion about something that you don't have any firsthand experience with. So I thought, what better way

to have that discussion because I think it's warranted, then with someone who actually was there and had an experience in one of these wilderness therapy programs. And I just happened to know someone who had that experience. And he's a very good friend of mine. His name is Tyler Ford. We met in college and we've been friends for over a decade. And one of the first things he told me about himself is that he was a participant in one of these programs in the desert. of Utah. Well, we have to talk to him then. We just have to. So we're going to sit down with him

and we're going to bring that conversation to you guys. So that will be Thursday's episode. Is our interview with Tyler? Kind of a continuation of this episode just to get his personal insight. He went in the early 2000s. So obviously it's not the Challenger Foundation, but it was a copycat type of institution that he has a lot to say about. So. Yeah. Well, Well, I'm very excited to speak with him and we're excited to release this episode to you all. All right. We'll see you on Thursday. In the meantime, enjoy the view.

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