National Park After Dark - Where Was Walton? Sitgreaves National Forest

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

As humans, we have spent millennia advancing to this very moment. We have more collective knowledge and advancements in technology today than we ever have before. We have a lot of things figured out. We are comfortable, and for the most part, we are in control. But what if that all changed? What if something came along that flipped your world and the understanding of it upside down? Today we head to Sitgreaves National Forest, to the location of the most documented alleged alien abduction in history to discuss the story of Travis Walton. For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page!Thank you to this week’s partners!Daily Harvest: Use our link to get up to $40 off your first order!Prose: Use our link for a free in-depth hair consultation and 15% off your first order.Magic Spoon: Use the code NPAD for $5 off your orderOlive & June: Use our link for 20% off your first mani system For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Close your eyes. Listen to Monday.com. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform. So flexible and intuitive, it feels like it was built just for you. Now open your eyes, go to Monday.com. Start for free and finally, breathe. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want.

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You find yourself gazing up into the night, searching for a stray shooting star, or practicing pointing out constellations, when you see it. A light, moving in a way unlike any known aircraft you've ever seen. Your interest is peaked now, and you sit up as if moving a foot closer to the atmosphere will make things clearer. You're studying it now, watching it closely as it maneuvers, appears, and disappears amongst the heavens. It vanishes, almost as quickly as it appeared, leaving no indication that it ever existed, except in your mind. You know what you saw, but who will believe you?

If you're like nine out of ten people, you won't report your experience. You'll keep it to yourself, or share it only with your trusted circle, afraid of ridicule or shaming. But if you're like that one out of ten people, you will report it, and count yourself amongst the thousands that do the same each and every year. Thousands of reports, whose words bleed together amongst thousands of pages of archives, tucked away and long since forgotten, and long since discredited. It's hard to believe the unbelievable.

It is difficult to accept that we, the self-crowned most advanced beings on Earth, may encounter phenomenon we don't fully understand. As humans, we have spent millennia advancing to this very moment. We have more collective knowledge and advancements in technology right now than we ever have before. We have a lot of things figured out. We are comfortable, and for the most part, we are in control. But what if that all changed? What if something came along that flipped your world and the understanding of it upside down?

What if you had a close encounter? Welcome to National Park After Dark. I think I can speak for everyone when I say I'm so happy you're doing a UFO episode. I've been waiting for this for so long. Like I really have been. So I'm really, really excited. I can't believe I've only done one. Me either.

And it's just been like a few weeks ago. I was like, we need a UFO one. Like I'm missing UFO and I almost did it. And I was like, no, Danielle already knows all of this. Like you are the girl to tell this. So I am ready. I'm so stoked. I'm so stoked because this story I grew up learning about just like the Betty and Barney Hill story from New Hampshire.

It was kind of like something I grew up learning and knowing just because of my dad's interest in UFOs and extraterrestrial life. So we are going to be discussing today the story of Travis Walton, which remains to this day the most documented. an infamous extraterrestrial abduction account of all time. Alleged. Alleged. I'm excited because I've heard of him and I've heard like little blips here and there, but I really do not know his story at all. Well, I'm stoked to tell you because I will say I did have to condense.

Like I had to reel it in. I'm sure. Reel it in. And it's still almost 12 pages of notes, which is a lot. So I did try and condense it the best I could. But before we jump in. to Travis and his story. We have two very exciting things to talk about. We do. So first and foremost, we have a shout out. We do. I think this is our first shout out we've done on the show.

I think so too, actually. Maybe. Maybe. I think so. Either way, it's exciting. We're excited. We wanted to give a huge happy anniversary shout out to two of our listeners, Harrison and Jenny. We're so happy for you. Happy five-year anniversary. Here's to many. more adventures and many more places to explore together. Happy five. That's a big milestone. Happy five. We're happy to have you as listeners and we hope we can inspire some new travels for you guys this year. But have a wonderful anniversary. Hope you like aliens because Daniel does this episode for you guys. Okay. Okay. Second thing, which I've just been, can I tell you? So anxious. We've been so anxious to tell you guys about this for a really long time. Okay, without further ado, we're doing another moment. We're doing another moment. We're so excited. Who don't know what that is. Last December, Cassie and I went to Joshua Tree and we did a live moment from L.A. after we went to Joshua Tree and shared some stories from Joshua Tree. This time around, we're kind of

spicing it up and doing something literally completely different. So different. So different. So going forward, we have decided to do something that we're both very interested in. We have called it spirited stays. We will be going to locations on the National Register of Historic Places to do our moments. And for our very first one, we just had to go to the most haunted hotel in America. And that is the Crescent Hotel. The Crescent Hotel has some super spooky, creepy stories that live in it. And Danielle and I are going to go. We're going to tell some stories from inside the hotel and you can all stream it. It is a ticketed event.

But if you go to Momenthouse.com slash NPAD, you can grab tickets. We're also doing meet and greet so we can talk to you via camera. And then also we're going to do a little after party, after the show where we're going to do an after party Q&A. and we're going to answer any questions that you all have, and we're going to go over that. But we're super, super stoked. We're going to be in a haunted hotel, which I'm terrified. Cassie, okay, can I just? She plays the victim.

She's like, oh, my God, I'm so scared. She's the one who came up with it. I had to. So I almost did this as a story for the podcast because it's so interesting. And then I was like, hold on. What if we go to this place to where this stuff happened? I mean, there's creepy grave. yards and morgues there. There's some really weird stuff and ghost encounters. And the worst part,

best part, is that we're going to bring a ghost meter while we're doing this event as well. So you'll all get to see if we have any paranormal experiences on camera. But we're really excited to share this moment. We love to do these kind of things. And we're so stoked to do something a little bit different. Yep. So we'll give some more details as time goes on. But we just wanted to let you know right off the bat that we have that coming down the pike. It'll be April 10th in the episode description. We'll put a link there. We'll put it on our socials. And you guys might want to know when it is. April 10th at 6 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. It's a Sunday. It's 9 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. The best part is that this is going to stream for three days. So if you can't come, you're busy.

It's too late. Whatever it is, you have three days where you can come join. And one of the best parts is we have some exclusive merch that comes with this show that you can only get if you get tickets to it. And we worked with Rayco designs again. And she made some really, really awesome stuff. She just hits it out of the park every time. Yeah. We're just like, you know, this is what we're thinking. This is kind of our vision. And she sends us something back. That's just everything. She's so talented. We're really excited to partner with her again. And bring you all to the Crescent Hotel with us. Yeah. And you guys can all watch me sit like shaking like a leaf and terrified the whole time. But it's going to be really fun. And we're staying the night. Oh my God. It's just going to be great. Okay. We're moving on.

We're moving on. So that, the Crescent Hotel is in Arkansas, but today we are going to Arizona for our story. Are you ready? November 5th, 1975 was a hard day of work for Travis Walton and his six forestry co-workers. They had been working on the Mogion Rim of the Sick Grieves Apache National Forests. This breathtaking 200-mile stretch of rim overlooks the largest continuous belt of Ponderosa pine forest on earth. Sidgreaves Apache National Forest were once two separate national forests, and they were both established in 1908, but they were combined in 1974 and are now jointly managed. At over 2 million acres, this national forest holds over 30 lakes, nearly 1,000 miles of rivers and streams, a thousand miles of hiking trails, and over 4.4.000 miles. species of wildlife. Its elevation ranges from about 3,500 feet to 11,500 feet, which is right at the top of Mount Baldi, which is also known as White Mountain. Along with its plethora of outdoor activity

opportunities, this national forest also has strong ties to the Apache tribes. Evidence of human activity in this area dates back thousands of years, and traces can still be seen today within the forests, in the form of different petroglyphs, remains of hunting and plant collecting areas, even to large pueblos with big enclosed plazas. And also, Mount Baldi, aka White Mountain, remains one of the most sacred spaces in all of Arizona. The U.S. Forest Service even speaks to this on their website. They make different mentions of creation stories and the sacred significance of the mountain, and especially how to be respectful while visiting. So you can hike this mountain up and around it, But the summit actually lies within the White Mountain Apache tribe reservation.

And the Forest Service urges visitors to respect that and to not continue to the summit if you are hiking around there. Just because it holds such spiritual significance to the tribes. Do they have signs and stuff that say that too? They do. But there have been documented cases of people blowing by that and not heating those appropriately. So they make mention it on their website. to just, you know, cut it out, not do that. Makes sense.

Travis and his crew were not on Mount Baldi, but they did spend the day within the National Forest working on timber stand improvement, which clears out dead and fallen trees and overgrowth to limit the fire danger. Travis had worked seasonally on and off for the cruise boss, Mike, for years, and was really good friends with him, but he was kind of just like acquaintances with the rest of the crew at this point.

Obviously, they worked together and had a working relationship, but him and Mike, the crew boss, went back years and years. The other crew members' names were Ken, John, Steve, Dwayne, and Allen. They were running behind that day and worked a little bit later than usual to fulfill their commitment. By the time the crew packed up their truck with their logging equipment and piled in to head back to town, the sun was dipping below the horizon. As the truck wound its way through the logging roads, the vehicle was full of chatter as everyone decompressed from the long day.

Suddenly, the men spotted a glow coming from within the trees. Initially, not phased by the light, no one gave it really any second thoughts. John first thought it was the moon rising, and Travis shrugged it off as a light from a nearby camp. It was deer season, and even though where they were in the National Forest was way, way out there, it was not uncommon to see hunters. He thought maybe it was just a light coming from a campfire or maybe illuminating a tent. Others thought that it was maybe headlights from someone within the forest or someone even threw out maybe it's a plane crash. But all of those stories quickly dissipated.

As they wound around the corner of the road, the moon showed itself, but on the opposite side of the road, no other groups of people were present and neither were any planes. Travis urged Mike, who was the one driving, to approach the soft yellow illumination that was peeking through the trees. What at first presented as an idle curiosity to the group soon became intriguing as Travis's interest was infectious. They continued driving on until they saw an area of light pooling onto the road. The forest opened up a bit on the side of the road at this point, allowing the light to reach its fingers out from the forest. Mike maneuvered the truck closer to the light source and drove into a clearing. He stopped the car and the men's curiosity turned to disbelief.

There, hovering 20 feet off the ground was a large, disc-shaped, sleek, metallic, domed craft. The clearing was illuminated, but not by harsh beams of light. It was as if someone had unrolled a blanket of soft, glowing gold, and draped it over the surrounding trees, vegetation, and ground. Everyone was in absolute awe, and leaned towards the windows of the truck, eyes wide, and jaws on the ground. everyone may have been astonished, but Travis was compelled, and he felt his hand reaching for the truck handle as soon as the truck stopped. He got out and approached the craft. His crew looked on as Travis got closer and closer, and then began to hear something. Alternating sounds of frequency, high and low, emitted from the craft, and although it could be heard, it could mostly be felt. Mike, who had his hands on the steering wheel and his elbow leaning against the glass of the window,

felt the reverberation of sound through his hands and up into his arms. As Travis got closer, the sound and the feeling intensified, and then the craft began to move. Get away from there. Let's go, Travis, the men yelled from the truck. Curiosity melted into fear as the object began to move. Eyes darting around, Travis saw a log and ducked behind it. come back here, the men urged. He stood, about to turn back and run for the truck when he felt immobilized. From inside the truck, John had been looking away from Travis momentarily, scanning the area for any other strange objects when he saw the forest light up in a flash of greenish-blue light.

Turning back towards his co-worker, he saw Travis three feet off of the ground, bathed in light with arms outstretched. Then he dropped to the ground, motionly. and crumpled, as if he didn't have a bone throughout his entire body. Horrified, Mike cranked the keys in the ignition, slammed the door that Travis had left open, and peeled away. The truck careened down the dirt logging road away from the clearing. What the hell was that? What just happened? Is Travis dead? Are we next? What do we do? They just drove away? Yes. The men at this point were absolutely frantic, and they were throwing out, questions and suggestions as they put distance between them and whatever that thing was.

Mike pulled over the truck about a half a mile down the road and everyone got out. Hands on their knees or grasping the sides of their heads, pulling at their hair. Every single crew member was utterly terrified. After a brief back and forth debate, Mike announced that he was going to go back for Travis. They could either wait there on the side of the road or go with him, but either way, he was going back for his friend. Thank you. He's like crumpled on the ground and they're like, bye. Well, it's terrifying. Well, yeah, but that's your friend over there. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty

for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope? It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Exchanging worried glances, the crew unanimously climbed back into the vehicle and went back to the clearing with Mike. The sun at this point had long since set.

So Mike positioned the truck to use the headlights to illuminate the clearing. And as the group got out, they realized they only had one full. flashlight, so they huddled together in one group and set out to where Travis had been. They traced the perimeter of the clearing and found no trace of him, no sight of him, or whatever they had just encountered. Deciding there was nothing to be done on their own, they drove back into town to get to help. Pulling into town, they pulled over to a pay phone to alert the sheriff's office. Deputy Sheriff Chuck Ellison responded to their frantic call and met them at the payphone in Heber, Arizona. The sheriff pulled in, exited his patrol car, and walked up to the group.

They were all distraught. Some of them were pacing around, and some were even crying. He listened patiently to the outpouring of details from the group, leaning in closely to assess if he could smell either whiffs of alcohol or marijuana on them, because he was hearing about aliens and that all of a sudden somebody's missing. I'm sure. He's like, these guys are on drugs. What are you? Exactly. talking about like you're tripping. Mm-hmm. And he never gave away the men that were interviewed later said he never gave away whether he believed them or not.

He just stayed very neutral and listened to what they had to say. And at this point, he radioed back to the police station, talked to his supervisor. And clearly at this point, something had happened to Travis, but what was it? He brings the group to the police station. they sit down with a bunch of police officers. They're explaining their story once again. And while the authorities were listening to this tale of an otherworldly craft snatching their friend, all of them were exchanging knowing looks amongst themselves. Yeah, something happened all right, but no way were aliens to blame. They thought that this group of boys were hiding something,

and they were determined to find out what that was. Oh, no. The next day, a search was launched. The group led the police to the location of the clearing, and they were all split up. A deputy accompanied each of them as they walked through the clearing in the surrounding areas. The men were all asked where Travis was, if they would just let them know what really happened right now, where they stashed the body, what the true story was. It would save a lot of people, a lot of time. But all of the men stuck to their story. Oh, so they thought, the police thought they murdered him.

Yes. Mm-hmm. Searches continued. A growing number of authorities and volunteers swept the area on foot. Dogs were called in from the nearby Arizona State Prison. Helicopters scanned from the air, but no trace. Not even a single footprint could be found. But the police were undeterred at this point. These men had to have been involved with Travis's disappearance. And I want to preface this next part and the ensuing conversations about polygraph tests, aka, you know, lie detector, test because I don't think we've ever talked about them. We haven't. On the show.

So I am aware, well aware that they are not reliable. So no one come at me. But just as a brief overview, just because, you know, again, I don't think we've ever formally discussed them here. This type of test uses an instrument that assesses heart rate, blood pressure, respiration, and skin conductivity, which are then used to measure physiological responses to a series of questions. The validity of lie detector testing has been controversial pretty much from the get-go as soon as they started being used. People kind of came for them. And there are a couple of reasons why that is.

There's a couple different problems with this test. But one of the most important being is that there is no one set pattern associated with someone being truthful or deceitful, meaning a person may be really, really nervous when they're telling the truth. and that may come across as a lie on the test and vice versa. Someone may be lying, but they're cool as a cucumber and their body doesn't give away that they're lying. So it would come across as a lie being actually truthful. Got it. So it's not very foolproof way of detecting someone being deceitful. Yeah, it sounds like a lie detector would be really good at finding really bad liars. Well, and I mean, if you're a sociopath or psychopath or whatever and you're, have no remorse and don't care or any guilt. It's like, did you do it? It's like, no.

Yeah, exactly. And other people are nervous wrecks in the face of authority or in a situation like that for whatever reason. And even if they are being truthful, sometimes it doesn't come across that way. So anyway, I just wanted to put that out there because a lot of this case does have to do with lie detector tests. And I just wanted to put it out there that I know. I get it. So regardless of all that, the police brought all of the men in to take a polygraph test. Although they weren't formally under arrest, it was expected that they all cooperate, especially if they wanted to save face within their town. Because their town was Snowflake, Arizona, and it's kind of like the definition of small town USA. It's still quite small, but back in the 1970s, its population didn't exceed 3,000 people.

That's bigger than the town I grew up in. Yeah, you grew up in, yeah, very tiny town. There was like 1,100 people total in my town. But you also had a lot of towns around you. That's true. If you look up Snowflake, Arizona, there are a couple, like, Heber's close to it. There are a couple towns near it, but they're not as densely populated as Southern New Hampshire. Yeah, it's vast.

Mm-hmm. This is the type of place where everyone knows everyone. They know everybody's business. So when Travis disappeared, it was the talk of the town. Like everyone knew. So people started harassing all of his crew members. They were yelling at them up in the streets. They were saying, you know, we know you're involved. Where's Travis? What did you do to him? Like, where's his body? Et cetera, et cetera. And they had that. And then they also had people accusing them of being on drugs. It was just coming at them from all angles. People were just yelling. People were just yelling. at them from their cars in the street, anywhere they went in to get coffee or whatever, it was a big thing. No one believed their story. Can you imagine? I mean, it does sound outrageous. You know, like if a group of friends went out into the wood, but they were working, it's not like they were even partying or something. But if a group of friends went out into the woods and then came back without one and was like, an alien abducted him, you know, everyone would be like, no way.

Like, you did something. What's going on? on. Exactly. So even though this polygraph test wasn't ideal, it was a way to potentially help clear their names in the eyes of the towns. People kind of get people off their backs a little bit. Cy Gilson was a respected former Arizona police officer who had gone on to polygraph school from from there. And he was the one to administer the test. So each of the men were taken in separately to take the test, which took about two hours and consisted of the following questions. And then I'll read the corresponding answers. Did you cause Travis Walton any physical injury last Wednesday?

No. Do you know if Travis Walton was injured by some other member of the crew last Wednesday? No. Do you know if Travis Walton is buried or hidden somewhere? No. Did you tell the truth about seeing a UFO last Wednesday when Travis Walton disappeared? Yes. All six men passed.

Despite this, they still receive. received scrutiny and no one believed them, including one of Travis's brother named Don. Dawn was absolutely certain that the crew had done something to Travis. Maybe they had gotten into an argument. Things got out of hand. Travis was somehow killed and discarded. It was his personal theory that Travis's body was hidden somewhere in the brush piles that were made by the crew.

So they were doing that timber stand reduction, which meant they had a bunch of brush pile and undergrowth piles that they had scattered throughout their contract site that the US Forest Service would later come through and burn. So they thought that they stashed Travis's body in one of these and the Forest Service would just eventually burn it, not knowing that he was in there. He was so convinced of this that he tore through many of those piles himself near that clearing during the searches themselves. Everyone seemed to have made up their mind that their crew was hiding something. That is, until Grant and Nash, Travis's brother-in-law, received a phone call. Hello. Grant, this is Travis. I'm back. I need help. A short pause followed by,

wait a minute, fella, you got the wrong number. I'm sorry. Don't hang up on me. Travis pleaded. Grant, this is Travis. I need help. Bad. Grant asked where he was and said that help would be there as soon as possible. Minutes later, Dwayne, Travis's brother, appeared at the telephone booth. Oh my God, Travis, he exclaimed as he reached for his brother. Travis recoiled and shuddered at the gesture, fearful, but not completely understanding why. Travis, it's all right, Dwayne persuaded, and Travis melted into his arms, tears flowing down his face. Mom is going to be so relieved, Dwayne said, as he held his brother. Travis looked up at him, confused.

Whatever for, he thought. Seeing the confusion cloud his face, Duane asked, Travis, do you know what day it is? Well, sure. November 5th. He had been working with his crew that day and was on his way home until they encountered that thing.

Now, sensing Duane's confusion, Travis reached up to his face and felt a beard. Reaching farther down, he examined his clothes. and how they draped over his body. Did they always fit this loosely? Travis, Dwayne murmured, You've been missing for five days. The next few days were an absolute whirlwind.

Travis was in an almost catatonic state and was sent to the hospital over in Tucson to recover. He had lost 12 pounds in those five days, was dehydrated, and was suffering from severe PTSD. While he was recovering in the hospital, his family and friends were being absolutely bombarded by the media. Word had made it out of their small town

about Travis's alleged alien abduction, which had already made the news, but now that he was back, everyone wanted this story. News outlets from all over the world descended onto the town of Snowflake and anyone who would give them a scoop. They called the police non-stop,

knocked on the Walton's doors, and even rushed Travis as he was discharged from the hospital. While the police did offer comment initially, they didn't give much away, simply that they were actively investigating the situation and at that point there was really not much more to say. What the media really wanted was an interview with Travis himself. But at that point, he was in no condition to speak for days after his experience. And he declined the initial urges to take a polygraph test after being advised by friends and family that he was just under too much stress at that point in time. not the time to take a test or give an interview. They wanted him to take a polygraph?

Yes. The pressure was on to do the polygraph. And I mean, there was media from Russia, Japan, Canada, South America, like literally everywhere around the world. I get it because if you're making those kind of claims, but at the same time, like, he just lost a bunch of weight. He's sick. He's like barely talking.

And you're like, actually, can you come take this polygraph test real quick? Yeah. I know. No, thank you. Leave me alone for a second. Like, I'm just, I'm alive, so that's cool. Right. Like, I'm thankful for that. So this entire event and what followed was putting an extraordinary amount of pressure, anxiety, and stress on Travis, who was only 22 years old at the time. The media was out for blood, but when a nationally renowned UFO group called the aerial phenomenon research organization, or APRO, reached out to Travis and offered to arrange a hypnosis. session, Travis agreed to that. It was during this regression led by Dr. James Harder that he was able to kind of piece together his experience in its entirety for the first time. And when that time came, the world was all years. Seeing the illumination through the trees was intriguing. And once the truck

pulled into the clearing, he had to get a better look at what its source was. Thinking whatever it was he was seeing hovering there above the ground in that clearing and at Greaves National Forest would just take off as soon as he approached it, Travis had no indication that he was in danger. He could hear his friends urging for him to come back and felt the reverberation of the sounds emitting from the craft throughout his body. As soon as it began to move, he crouched and took shelter behind a log. His friends were right. He should go. When he leaned forward to stand up, that movement of his body brought him closer to the craft than he had had been before, within 15 feet. And that's when it happened. A bright blue beam of light engulfed him,

lifted him up, and dropped him. Then it all went black. Can I ask, is this where like that famous, when you think of aliens and someone being abducted, it's like the green beam of light, someone being lifted up and like their limp body, hands and legs behind them being, is this what it's from is Travis Walton's experience? I can't say with certainty, yes, but I would imagine so, because this is in the 70s. And we talk a bit about it later, about how people question his experience and what he went through. And a lot of critics and skeptics will point out, well, you know, the Betty and Barney Hill thing had been in the news recently before this. Aliens and Martians from other lands like Roswell incident, all like the aliens were kind of like a big thing back then.

And they thought that maybe that influenced whatever this experience was, maybe gave him warped memory or whatever. Yeah. But I think as far as like that classic abduction scene that you're talking about, I would guarantee it's from this. Because if you look up the cover of the documentary, I'll talk about at the end too, that's the classic image on it. As soon as you described it, it's what I was picturing.

for this whole scenario. Yeah. Because also Betty and Barney Hill, for anyone who doesn't know, which is probably a lot of people, it wasn't a classic beam of light, like I'm being abducted midair type of thing. They lost time. They were in their car and they lost their memory. And then they did regressions and stuff. But it had nothing to do with a beam of light and being zapped up into a craft.

So to answer your question and a long, that was the long-winded version. But yes, I think. Okay. This is the short answer. Travis slowly woke up on a table, blinking his eyes against the soft light shining down on him from above. Struggling to regain consciousness, he was overcome with an immense pain. He couldn't pinpoint its source, but he felt like he was dying. His entire body ached and he was incredibly weak.

Lying there on his back, in pain, and under a bright light, he immediately thought that he was in the hospital. He must have been in an accident, he blacked out, and woke up in the hospital, is what his first thought was. Focusing his eyes, his gaze fell upon two humanoid creatures leaning over him. Smaller in stature than a typical person, hairless, including head hair, eyelashes, eyebrows, and facial hair, with large eyes and an expressionless face. Travis absolutely lost it. He mustered all the strength that he had to reach out his arm to strike one of the beings before he rolled off his back and off the side of the table. Reaching behind him and grabbing a piece of what he later described as a clear cylinder, Travis swung violently at these creatures, screaming and threatening them. As he was doing this, the three beings rounded the table towards him, still maintaining expressionless faces.

Travis noticed a door behind them, and it was the only exit in sight. And he was in his mind planning a grand escape and a break from the room when suddenly all three beings just turned around and left. He exited the room right after them, and the door opened into a long, narrow, and dimly lit corridor. Seeing the three beings turned right at the end of that corridor, he followed but turned left. He entered a room with a chair with controls and noticed he could see an endless sea of stars through the walls.

Sensing a presence behind him, he turned to see a man, extremely human-likeant appearance. Travis later said that if he saw him on the streets, this thing would pass in a crowd and no one would blink an eye. The only thing that was different with him here was he was wearing a clear helmet. Feeling a tinge of reassurance at the appearance of this familiarity, Travis barraged him with questions. Where are we? What is happening? What were those things? He went on and on and on, trying to get an answer out of what he thought was this human-like thing. This person or thing grabbed his arm and guided him out of the room. Again, not saying a word. Nothing has said a word to him at this point. The man led to him. He said a word. him down a ramp and out of the craft, and they entered into a large open space where he walked through

what he was thinking was a building or a larger craft and into another room with more of these human-like creatures. The fraction of reassurance he felt initially froze back into fear once again because no one was answering him. They were all just standing around him and looking at him. His fear rose into panic as he was sat onto another table. A mask was placed over his face, and once again, he was plunged into darkness. His next memory was feeling the cold pavement beneath his body, looking up into the sky to see a fleeting glimpse of a light and the underside of a sleek metallic craft as it lifted away and into the night sky. He looked around, and he recognized this place. He was in the town of Heber.

close to the national forest he was working in, and his town of Snowflake. He got up and made his way to the center of town, yelling and pounding on doors with no answer. He walked until he reached the Amico station, which was a gas station. There was a telephone booth there. He stumbled over to it, picked it up, and called the first number that came to his mind. And that's when his brother-in-law answered. And this is all what he got from hypnosis. These are his memories that returned to him after being hypnotized.

Yeah. So from I watched many documentaries and or I should say I watched one documentary and several interviews with him. And he said that over the first couple days he was in like this catatonic state. He was in shock. He was super afraid. He had no idea what just happened to him. And he could remember bits and pieces.

But they were kind of jumbled and didn't really make sense. and it wasn't until this regression that he put it together like that. And he thinks that he could a lot for maybe an hour to two hours worth of time in that five days. That's why he had no idea he was gone for five days. He thought it was still that night. Can't imagine losing that much of your time. That's what, yeah, he was so shocked. Yeah.

So after the regression, Travis agreed to do an interview and the polygraph test, and it was administered by the same man, Cy Gilson. And the following letter I kind of condensed and summarized. It was written by Cy Gilson and his conclusions after the test. And it is as follows. On February 4th, 1993, a polygraph examination was administered to Mr. Travis Walton. The purpose of this examination was to determine whether or not Mr. Walton was being truthful in his statement about seeing a UFO and being abducted by the UFO, plus other facts surrounding the abduction. He goes on in the letter to summarize basically everything I just explained his account and what happened to him.

Sy goes on to say, Mr. Walson said his story is true. He said accusations made about him are lies. He had not been on any drugs of any kind. He was not hiding out and denies he conspired to perpetuate a hoax to get out of a contract with the Forestry Service. And these are the following questions. On November 5th, 1975 in the forest area called Turkey Springs, did you see a large glowing object hovering in the air? Yes.

While you were standing near that UFO-like object, did you believe you were struck by an energy source emitted from that large object? Yes. After regaining consciousness in a small, humid room, did you see non-human creatures with large dark eyes? Yes. Did you conspire with your brother Dwayne or anyone else or act alone to stage a hoax about your UFO abduction?

No. Between November 1st and November 1st and no. November 11, 1975, did you use any drugs, either legal or illegal? No. Between November 5th and November 10th, 1975, were you hiding away on the Gibson Ranch? No. Was this UFO incident a conspiracy to help Mike Rogers get out of his Turkey Springs contract? No. Based on the numerical score of the polygraph charts and the computer-based analysis, it is the opinion of this examiner that Mr. Walton was being truthful when he answered these relevant questions, sincerely, sighed at this point, Travis had undergone hypnosis sessions monitored by three leading psychiatrists,

was administered by a leader in the field, he had been given polygraph tests, which he passed, and he was tested for drugs and alcohol in the form of both urine samples and blood samples, and he was clear. They were all negative. His brother and all six members of the forester crew had been given multiple polygraph exams, which they all passed, and the chances of all people passing the same test was a million to one. So the odds are in their favor as far as this goes so far. But still, criticism was rampant. Polygraphs obviously, like we said, can be inaccurate measurements of truthfulness, and it is possible to confabulate under hypnosis. So there's criticisms for hypnosis as well. I didn't get into it, but basically,

there have been cases of the people giving the sessions or leading the sessions. I don't know if there's a proper term for them. But basically that they can lead their subjects into a particular pattern of statements. They can lead the session. They can influence what they're thinking. Right. Remembering. Exactly.

I've heard studies of stuff like that where people have like brought forward in hypnosis, abuse that actually never happened, but they brought forward these memories, but then they'll like come up with these scenarios. And then when they actually put things together later on, it's been like, oh, wait, I wasn't even here at this time when I'm remembering this. And this person wasn't even living in the state or, you know, like it just like comes when they look at facts. Like it doesn't make sense. So that was kind of my first thought when you mentioned hypnosis. I was like, do I really believe hypnosis though? But five days. gone is what happened. Right. There is that. And with these hypnosis studies, I put in the little

with other psychiatrists in there because they wanted to have leaders in the field here. They didn't just want one person to give this test and be like, yeah, this is it. They wanted it to be as controlled as possible with various people that were leaders in the field at the time to be present for the hypnosis sessions and things like that. So there is that as well, not saying either way, but it just that is what it is. And just because critics were present, it didn't deter leaders in the scientific field to step forward, and they were taking an interest in this case as well. Nuclear physicist, Stanton Friedman, and astronomer Dr. J. L. and Hineck were most notable in that. Stanton Friedman, in particular, focused all of his work on facts, data, and evidence,

not on sensationalism, opinion, speculations, or belief. Humans are difficult to explore. Humans are difficult to extrapolate those things from. Humans are flawed. Memories may change over time. We can be easily influenced, even unintentionally, on a subconscious level. Even when we're swearing up and down that we're telling the truth, we are notoriously unreliable. Although Stanton Friedman spent a huge amount of time interviewing everyone associated with Travis's story, pouring over his lab tests and results, he turned his attention elsewhere, a place that held facts, data, and he was a place that held facts data and evidence that could not be influenced nor manipulated. He turned to the trees.

Oh. In the summer of 2000, yeah, I know. Very interesting. In the summer of 2014, a field survey of the area where Travis and his crew encountered the craft was performed. The area of the encounter was spared from the 2002 Rodeo-Chideski fire. This fire actually remains one of the largest in Arizona history. They were actually two separate fires, both set intentionally. The first was started by a firefighter who was looking for work, and the other started two days after that when a hiker ran out of gas.

He set a fire to get the attention of a helicopter who was actually on its way to the Rodeo fire. And these two fires combined and raged for days, and they destroyed over 468,000 acres and nearly 500 homes. Wow. So this was a huge fire. fire, but the area that this occurred to Travis and his group of forestry co-workers was not affected by the fire. So samples of the trees in and around this clearing were taken. Calculations showed that the wood fiber on the trees in the area grew at a rate 36 times the rate that they had in the previous 85 years before 1975. Many trees in the area exhibited these changes, and interestingly, this effect

diminished the farther away from the site you went. And the extreme growth rate is interesting, but coupled with the directionality factor is very interesting. So the growth rings were measured, just as we mentioned. So basically, all of the growth rings were very uniform in size for 85 years. Very consistent. And then when this event happened in 1975, from that point on, they grew at 36 times the rate they ever had before. And the farther away from the initial site that this supposedly happened, that effect diminished. So it was just the trees that were centralized to this event that this happened. Okay. So the directionality thing is also very interesting. A swelling and thickening in the growth rings near the encounter site was noted, like we just said. But the growth

also was in a direction that the craft had been. And it was not appreciated on the other side. side of the same exact stump. So I'll post pictures of it because it's hard to explain, but when you see it, you're like, oh, okay. So imagine you're looking at a cross section of a tree stump and you're looking down at the rings. And it's a uniform circle like a regular tree is. But in these cases where they're noticing this directionality change, instead of a perfect circle, it's kind of shifted into like a little oval type that's kind of reaching towards this area where this light was. So it's not perfectly circle. So the rings are like different on each side. Yeah, it's just on the side where this craft was. The same stump on the opposite side that wasn't

touched by these lights is not affected at all. Interesting. So the primary theory for what could cause this type of thing, this type of change, would be exposure to radiation. And there are studies that have investigated the effects of radiation in relation to tree growth, specifically in the case of the Chernobyl incident. One of these studies was done by a university in Poland in 1997, and they found that the trees exposed to radiation after Chernobyl had grown up to three times in volume of accelerated growth as compared to previous years. So same type of thing, accelerated growth when exposed to radiation. So it has not been confirmed that this is exactly what happened at this location. It's a It's an interesting connection and one that a lot of the scientific community and uophologists and enthusiasts are really trying to explore further, but there's nothing concrete.

It's just a very interesting side note. So there is a difference between skeptics and full-blown debunkers because obviously I'm guessing about, I'd venture to say 93% of people listening right now are like, this is a crock of shit. I think you're wildly overestimating that. Really? Yes. Absolutely. I think that we are a full of people who believe in UFOs. I'm listening to this.

And I mean, I also think I'm very easy to lie to. So if someone was like, I've been abducted by aliens, it'd be like, of course you have. Like, why would you lie to me about that? But, you know, like, I really, I have a really hard time believing that we are the only people in the entire universe. And the fact that somebody had an experience doesn't shock me. You know, so I think that you... I think I just... You're like nervous.

No one believes this story. But I think there's a lot of people sitting here like, wow. That had to have happened. I think it's very, very intriguing. And I don't know, I've just always grown up very firm in my belief. I've never tried to change anybody's minds. I've never tried to argue with anybody about it. Like, what's the point?

I have my opinion and other people can have theirs. And I'm literally just regurgitating a story that Literally, this is just what is documented. So I guess you can believe whatever you want. But we'll get into that a little bit. Kind of just like my point was there's a difference in skeptics and debunkers. Like skeptics are like, you know, they're questioning the story or the evidence in an effort to kind of just filter out the truth, like figure out what's going on. But debunkers are people whose sole purpose is to tear others down to ridicule them and to discredit them.

And one of those debunkers was Philip Class. And at the time, he was a propagandist around like the 1950s and on. And he focused in on strange phenomenon of any kind, but specifically UFOs. He deemed anyone who believed in things such as UFOs as quote unquote cooks. Like you're crazy. You know, why would you ever believe in something like that? And as a senior avionics editor for a well-renowned space and technology publication, his career and the connections that that position provided him, placed him in a very

privileged position amongst the scientific community. So prior to Travis, he had his site set on James McDonald. James McDonald was one of America's leading atmospheric physicists, and he also happened to be a UFO researcher. Class aimed to kill the character of McDonald's and because he was unable to attack his scientific findings because he was like brilliant physicist. He had a lot of evidence that backed up, you know, things that he was investigating. So he couldn't attack his scientific findings. So he went after him as a person to kind of like tear him down. And it kind of worked in a way.

I mean, it wore him down so much that after years and years of relentless scrutiny by class, James McDonald completed suicide. This is how rough this guy was at going after people in the UFO community. That's horrible. Yep. He also went on to try and tear down Stanton Friedman before turning his sights to Travis. So some of the things that he tried to do to discredit Travis and his story included, but not limited to, taking quotes out of context, totally misquoting things altogether. Despite previously documented information, he would just pick and choose things and sort of.

scramble things around to make headlines. He reached out to anyone who had ever come into contact with Travis, including old employers, old friends, old acquaintances, trying to get dirt on him in any way possible, even though he never directly reached out to Travis for questioning, ever. So he never actually talked to him? Correct. He was just like slamming him every way that he could. Mm-hmm. And Steve Pierce, who was the youngest of the forestry group, he was also the most emotionally distraught crew member of this entire thing. And class knew that. And he went up to him and basically, Gates said, you know, I'll give you $10,000 as a bribe. I'll give you 10 grand if you say that this entire abduction thing was a hoax and that it never happened. And that's $10,000

in 1975 to a 17-year-old kid that is in a really tough. situation financially and his family wasn't the greatest off. Like, that's a lot of money. Like, it would have helped him a lot. Mm-hmm. Did he take it? No. He stuck to his story and didn't take it. Damn. So it was class's belief that this entire abduction story was actually a cover-up that all of these men were involved in and in on. So this was kind of his pitch and his take on it. He believed that Travis was hiding out in a cabin in the woods the entire time, the whole five days, and the entire time he was injecting LSD. And I just have to, do you inject LSD?

I was just going to say, um, like, um, I feel like that's not the way it's done, but I personally have not known anyone to inject LSD, but yeah, I don't know. You just put it on a piece of paper and put it on your tongue. Like, what? I don't know. I have no idea. That's just what his thing was. Not that I would know, mom.

I'm just. Well, clearly I don't know. Yeah, actually we don't know. We don't get it. So the reason he thought for this whole thing is that the crew was behind on their contract and wanted to get out of it while still maintaining their ability to get paid. So they made up this entire story. And while the crew was behind on the contract, Mike, the crew lead, maintains the fact that

they would never make up a story like that. And even deputy Chuck Ellison was aware of their position with the contract and also backed up Mike with the notion that making it up an entire elaborate UFO abduction story wasn't going to get anyone out of any contract at all. Like that's just the while of this shit. Like that wouldn't have worked. Right. And class was so persistent. A federal criminal investigator even came out to try and force Mike to sign a confession document confessing that. that that was the whole thing. People were really like harping on, like, if this was true or not.

So Mike went as far as to receive a written affidavit from the Forest Service stating that there would be no way that Mike would have ever benefited from that situation at all. On the contrary, they actually stated that Mike was harmed as a result of this entire thing. Like the whole media sensation and everything that happened after it actually did more harm than any good he would have ever gotten out of it, which would have been nothing. So that's not a valid argument. Whatever's going on here, this is not it. And the whole injecting LSD thing, like he's had blood and urine test and he was clear of any drugs. Like, you know, it just seems weird. Yeah. So finally, after all of this character assassination, Travis and his entire crew wrote a letter to Mr.

Class challenging him to another polygraph test given by a mutually agreed upon examiner. In their letter, they state, quote, being as you are attacking our honesty, we challenge you to either have us retested or admit to the validity of our previously passed tests. So basically like, all right, let's go. Like you choose the person, the time, the place will be there. If we pass, you need to cut the shit type of thing. Or we won't do it, but you need to stop. You know, like it's up to you. And they even promised to pay for the test if they flunked.

was just no losing for class, essentially, you know. But he never accepted. He never responded to them. So there are a lot of questions surrounding why would he go so far to destroy the character of not only Travis, but all those other people that he had in his career regarding, you know, anybody that had a public story about a UFO or a UFO encounter. And through the Freedom of Information Act, documents have been uncovered that service. as evidence that class was perhaps acting on the behalf of a covert government agency who was at the time working to discredit UFO sightings. And that's an entirely other subject that I cannot even, you know, begin to get into or explain because there are so much there, like government conspiracy,

why the government would want to cover up the existence of UFOs or intelligent life forms elsewhere, because essentially just all the shit would hit the fan. There's just a lot of, lot there. But essentially it was the opinion of some that at the time he was really just working for a secret government. And that's why he was so gung-ho on trying to get them to admit they were wrong or shut them down kind of thing. Yeah, to make them look like idiots, essentially. So to wrap this up, it has been 47 years since Travis Walton had an experience that changed his life. And he is stuck to his story, the same version with no embellishments, no changes ever since. He nor his crew never once swaying on its validity and standing firm that he did encounter and was taken by otherworldly

beings that day in Sitgreaves National Forest, despite over four decades of mockery and incredible scrutiny and ridicule. In those years he experienced strained friendships, been forever labeled as essentially like a whack job because of this experience. He had opportunity shut off to him. He lost his job at some point. He was almost driven out of his town. A lot of his friends on the forestry crew, they changed their names and moved because they couldn't take all of the pressure and scrutiny and harassment from people, basically calling them liars. He reunited with them at the end, but, you know, it changed everybody's lives. At one point, Travis even said, you know, if I could just have brought myself to lie and say, you know, you're right,

we were hammered, we were on drugs, we made up the entire thing, whatever. He could have gotten the media off his back. They would have eaten up that story up and then he would have just kind of like fallen out of the headlines. Yeah. And he would just kind of fade away and maybe he could get his life back. But he throughout the years maintained the courage to stand steady and make the best of a bad situation. He has gone through years of therapy, but he's also been giving interviews and speaking at

conferences throughout the world using both his own experience as well as data and statistics. Given current estimates, there are 100 billion stars in the Milky Way. Conservative estimates place 10 to 12 planets for each one of those stars, which results in a minimum of a thousand billion planets in our galaxy alone. Of course, we know based on our own solar system that not every planet is life-supporting, but doesn't that make you think a little bit? And although Travis believes he was an abductee, he is not so quick to believe and support every person who comes forward with the story of their own. Just because he believes in intelligent extraterrestrial life, he does not believe every account of an encounter with it and hold strong to the notion that we should all retain a healthy dose of skepticism.

He once said, A true watchdog of the truth is someone who advocates objectivity with open-minded examination. You neither accept nor reject until all of the evidence has been properly evaluated. And that's all of the evidence, both the pro and the con. So I will leave you with this. Be a watchdog of truth. Keep an open mind while following a path of evidence and seek out the truth, no matter where that path may bring you.

And that is it. That is the story of Travis Walton and his alleged abduction. Do you believe him? Cassie, of course, I believe him. I, again, just like he has said, don't believe every UFO story, whether it's a sighting to an encounter to an abduction. I don't believe every single thing. I mean, that would be ridiculous. Yeah.

But his story and the witnesses involved and the years of these people, all of these people, that he didn't even really know. You know, like most of those people, yeah, most of those guys he had met what that season? Like, what did they owe to him? You know, if it was fake, why would they hold on to 40 plus years, never changing their story, changing their name, moving, going through, like, it's a lot. to carry for a lie. Yeah. For what? You know, like for what did that gain for you?

Yeah, it seems like they lost a lot more than they would have gained from this story. And I just have to say, too, it's incredible how far people will go out of their own business to, like, be horrible to them. I just think it, like, if someone was like to me, yeah, I saw aliens, I was abducted, blah, blah, blah. And I was in my brain, I'm like, no, you weren't. Like, that doesn't make any sense. I certainly wouldn't go that far out of my way to be so hurtful to them. You know, it'd just be like, okay, whatever, sure. Right, like no skin off my back.

Yeah, exactly. I don't know, that story is like very, there's just so much to it. There is. And I really, I really have a hard time believing that we are the only people in the entire universe, you know, like there's just no way. And there's, I mean, you see how mean people are to them. like, no wonder why UFOs and extraterrestrials don't want to show face here. They're like, look at how horrible they are. Like, we just like dip down and said hi to one of you. Like,

imagine if we said hi to like anymore. Everybody. Yeah. As always, I'll list my sources in the description. If you want to read further into this, there is a book written by Travis Walton himself. It's called Fire in the Sky. But it has also been made into a film, which is named the same exact thing. And while Travis was consulted for the film, Fire in the Sky, he does go on record saying that the main gist of the whole thing is accurate, but they definitely took some creative liberties, if you will, and embellished and changed some of the details. So that's not an accurate representation of his experience. But if you do want to watch something on this story, but you'd rather not sit through like a whole Hollywood drama, the documentary I watched on his. him. It's on Amazon. It's free. And it's called Travis, the true story of Travis Walton. In that documentary, he and others, because some of his crew were interviewed for that

documentary as well. And I've said it once, I'll say it again. We'll always say it any time we talk about a UFO episode. Is there just, is statistically speaking, just such a probability of other life. And Earth and human existence on Earth is relatively young compared to other planets out there. So to think that we are the end all be all, I think is wrong. But if you think about it from our perspective, if we had the technology to zip around to another planet, which we're actively trying to do, so why would it seem so far-fetched that another civilization would want to do the same thing. If we stumbled upon a planet that had intelligent life forms but weren't intelligent

enough to know that we were there, wouldn't you want to study them? Food for thought. Yeah. It's just like kind of a thought. But anyways, that's Travis's story. If you want to read more, there's, I mean, like I said before, it's the most well-documented alleged alien abduction story out there. So there's tons of information about it.

And I did find like the approximate location of where this happened in the National Forest, but I didn't look into it any further. And I'm not even going to say anything about it because they do talk about in the documentary wanting to keep that safe and under wraps. But the general location is about 45 minutes away to a national park. And that's petrified forest. So if you're out there, you can go to this national forest. and see, you know, what Travis saw maybe, if you're brave. If you're brave. If you want to get abducted.

Yeah. And, oh, I changed my mind also. I don't want to be abducted. I just want to see something. You're like, I don't want to lose a bunch of weight and be scrutinized for 40 years of my life. No, thank you. No, thank you. But I just think it's really incredible also about, like, him in general is after watching so many documentaries or interviews with him.

He's just so like, he's not flamboyant about it and he's not like embellishing about. He's just like, yeah, I mean, this is what happened. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. He's just so even keeled and he's maintained his story for so many years despite people calling him every name in the book. I think that speaks to his character and I think that also adds a layer of credibility to it. Whereas if he was acting a different way or things, you know, unfolded differently. it would be more difficult to believe.

But yeah, so I hope everyone enjoyed that UFO story because when I found out it happened in a national forest, I was so excited. Like, yes, I have another reason to talk about aliens. Yeah, no, I'm stoked you did it. I was really excited when I heard your intro and just realized it was a UFO story because I've been wanting one. I mean, I've been telling you I've been wanting one,

so I'm glad that you covered it today. So thanks everyone for joining us on another adventure. Remember that our tickets are on sale for our moment at the Crescent Hotel. You can find the link either in our description or on our website. And the link is momenthouse.com slash np.ad. Yeah. Well, thanks for joining. We'll see you next week.

In the meantime, enjoy the view. But watch you're back. Maybe there's aliens. Goodbye. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale you'd like to share, send us an email at NPAD Stories at gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at National Park After Dark and on Twitter at NPAD podcast. Become an outsider by joining our Patreon where you'll gain access to monthly bonus stories and exclusive content.

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