NBC Nightly News with Tom Llamas - ‘Her Take’ with Cynthia McFadden: Glenda Jackson

Episode Date: June 3, 2019

In an extended interview with NBC’s Cynthia McFadden, the two-time Oscar winner and former politician discusses her long career and being able to take on Shakespeare's King Lear.

Hi, it's Cynthia McFadden, and this week on Her Take, Glenda Jackson, the Oscar-winning actress, is on Broadway playing not a queen, as she has done many times in the past, but a king, taking on one of the most important and memorable roles in the English theater, that of King Lear. Now, Jackson's British. She's known for having a very sharp tongue. And I was a little bit intimidated before we headed over there. I had a whole plan for what I was going to do if she was, you know, wasn't willing to answer my questions, but none of it was necessary. She sat down to talk. And I have to say, having seen her in the play King Lear, I took my son with me. My heart sort of sank as we went to our chairs and they said, oh, the first act is two hours. Well, let me tell you, it was two of the most thrilling hours I have ever spent in a theater. So I hope you enjoy listening to what Glenda Jackson has to say about the theater, her life, the Me Too movement and lots more, as much as I enjoyed talking to her. Take a listen.

Did you have any hesitancy about taking this on? It all came about because a great friend of mine and a wonderful Spanish actress called Nuria Esper was doing it in Barcelona and I went over to see her. And she said to me, why don't you do it? And I said, don't be ridiculous. They'd never let me play Lear in England what are you talking about and then the old Vic which was a theater I'd worked in before and wanted me to do a play and I suggested we do Lear and there we were we were doing it did I mean you must have thought through I mean, you must have thought through. I mean, you played queens, but playing a king? Well, in a strange kind of way, I mean...

Coming at this... When I was a Member of Parliament, one of my... I was about to say duties, but I think in a sense it's a privilege, really, was to visit old people's homes, day centres, centres where people with disabilities were aided. And one of the things that I found most fascinating was that as we get older, those absolute boundaries that define our genders begin to fray.

They begin to get a bit smoky and edgy and, you know, it's not so absolute anymore. And this character, King Lear, is 80. And I found that very useful, actually, coming to play. You know, he's a guy who no one in his entire life has said no to, ever. I think he probably was rather a good king, but he decides to give it all up. And he has his own plans for the future. But those plans are absolutely blown away by his youngest favourite daughter saying to him, ac mae ganddo ei rhan ei hunain am y dyfodol ond mae'r rhain yn cael eu llwyddo'n gwbl

gan ei ddau ffwrdd mwyaf oedol ei ddweud wrtho i, nid wyf yn mynd i mewn i'r gêm hwn o Pwy Wyddoch chi'n Mwy? ac o'r tro yna, mae'n ymwneud â casgadio. Wel, mae casgadio yn gwneud ei fod yn dechrau mynd i lawr. Mae'n debyg ei fod yn ffynu, mae'n rhaid i chi fyny i fyny. Ond mae'n like a mountain you have to climb up. But it is the most wonderful, wonderful privilege to be allowed to try to get up to the top of that mountain, yeah. So King Lear is an old man. Well, he's old in years, but he rejects the idea that he's old. I mean, that is something that he confronts right at the end of the play, that he is old.

But up until that point, he has actually an enormous amount of energy. I mean, that is something that he confronts right at the end of the play, that he is old. But up until that point, he has actually an enormous amount of energy and a real appetite for life. He talks about crawling towards death. He's not going to just put his feet up, do you know what I mean? He's going to have a good time. And all of that gets smashed away. So talk to me about stamina. It's over 1,000 lines Yeah. It's three and a

half hour play. You do it eight times a week. Yes. Twice on Wednesdays and Saturdays. How the heck do you do it? Well, if I can just touch on the eight shows a week, I was out during the interval, I think, having a cigarette. There were about four of us in the cast who still smoke. Don't start if you're a child and watching this programme. Anyway, put that to one side. And they were bitching, the boys were bitching, about having to do eight shows a week. Now, that is the tradition in my country.

I mean, that's what you do, you do eight shows a week. And I said to them, can I just point out to you all those years that we were desperately hunting for work, how could we possibly complain about having eight performances a week? There is also an enormous energy in the play, and if you can tap into that, and thank you, God, and thank you to the rest of the cast, we do. And that just takes you forward as though you're on a jet plane.

It's amazing. Well, I want to say i can't remember most things how do you remember a thousand lines well i don't know if this helps you but after the last performance of this production as every other production i've ever been in the day after the last performance i won't remember a line it's just gone don't ask me where it goes. I mean, there can be little nudges that remind me, but it just goes. You find hard work enjoyable. Well, one of the great gifts of my life, I come from what we used to call the working classes. And it was very simple. If you didn't work, you didn't eat. And so one of the great gifts that my family gave me was work ethic, a strong work ethic, and I bless that.

That's something I've learned with the years I've been around. What a blessing it is to have that work ethic. You're scary up there. I mean, I have to say, there are moments. I'm supposed to be. Wow. Well, you are plenty scarily. Good.

That's okay then. It's not me. It's him. But, you know, okay, fine. Although, as a person, you have the reputation of being a little bit scared. Do you know, I've never understood that. The two things that I've read about myself over the years, which have recurred with a tedious monotony,

is one, that I'm frightening, and two, that I speak in complete sentences. Now, don't we all speak in complete sentences? No. Oh, don't we? Oh, okay, fine. But I don't get the frightening bit at all. You don't?

No, I don't. Well, you call as you see it. I mean, I think you've had a few critics, like, in tears during interviews where you... Have I really? I think so. No. I can't believe that. That's just rude.

No. Anyway, I don't understand. I think you're guilty on both counts. Just saying. I'll think about that. Thank you. Well, you're of a certain age now. I am indeed.

You just turned 83. As an older woman, what did you know? Oh, I'm so glad you asked me that question. Because one of the things that has been revelatory to me as the years have rolled by is how little I know. And, you know, I was raised as a war race. Age brings wisdom. That's one of the benefits to it. But it certainly hasn't as far as I'm concerned. And I think the time left to try and build up my knowledge package is diminishing.

But that in itself is something that pushes you to look more, to ask more, be even more curious. I read somewhere that you said that you feel the same inside, sort of 15. Absolutely, absolutely. feel the same inside sort of 15 absolutely absolutely it's the envelope i inhabit that is throwing things in my direction that i find unexpected you know your fingers don't do what they tell you you tell them to do and oh feet your knees with me i mean knees they just have a world of their own that they inhabit and i'm dragged along whether I want to go or not. But do you feel smarter than you did when you were 40? I don't feel smarter. I think I'm in a better position to avoid making disastrous mistakes.

So for 23 years, having won two Oscars and lots of applause, you set aside acting and said, I'm going to become a member of the house of commons well i didn't expect it to happen just like that is there something you're most proud of from those 23 years i saved a couple of lives genuinely yes and i don't think that it was necessarily me in both those cases um i think it was that I raised the particular cases on the floor of the House of Commons, and it was the power of Westminster,

the power of the Chamber, actually, that occasioned the offenders to back off. So, yeah. What was your take on the MeToo moment, the MeToo movement? For me, it's... I could not believe the hypocrisy. I could not believe that all these

people hadn't known for all those years exactly what was going on. And I don't believe they didn't know now. One of the good things that has come out of it is that there has been that willingness to come out and say, yeah, this

actually happened. It happened to me. I know other people it's happened to. I think one of the problems with movements like that, they then, I don't mean they lose track of what they're trying to achieve and which we would all like to see achieved. I think they become sort of movements and that kind of takes over why that movement is there. But you know let's hope that that breakthrough is a genuine breakthrough. I have my doubts because one of the problems with its formation was the individuals around whom it was formed. do we really think that kind of behavior is limited to people who have? Gallons of money important jobs know it's happening even as I speak to you now isn't it probably about two streets away And it's happening all over the world and how do you begin to change those kind of?

fundamental things so What do you say to young women who are listening to you, who admire you, who would like to have the courage that you manifest in the world? What do you say to them? There's more to you than the way you look.