NBC Nightly News with Tom Llamas - NBC News Special: Epidemic of Hate – Antisemitism in America

Episode Date: December 16, 2022

Jacob Soboroff hosts an NBC News NOW special exploring the resurgence of hate against Jews in America and what’s being done to combat extremism.

Hate can have no safe harbor. It's never defeated. It only hides. And failure to call it out is complicity, and the silence is complicity. We're seeing a rapid rise in anti-Semitic rhetoric and acts. Let me be clear, words matter. People are no longer saying the quiet parts out loud. They are literally screaming them. From our studios in New York, this is an NBC News Now special report. Epidemic of hate. Anti-Semitism in America. Hello, I'm Jacob Soboroff. Tonight, we're going to examine the troubling trend

spreading all across America, an alarming surge in anti-Semitic rhetoric, sentiments, and acts. This kind of hate is nothing new, but today it is once again working its way out of the shadows and into the mainstream. Powerful celebrities and other influential figures are using massive platforms to spread false tropes and hateful narratives targeting vulnerable people and communities. Now, fear is spreading that these hateful words could lead to something much worse. It's stoking concerns among the Jewish community, gathering loved ones in homes and in synagogues for the holidays. And over the next half hour, we'll also explore what's fueling this rise in anti-Semitism,

what's behind the hate, but also why people say it's not too late to stop the spread and the inspiring ways that they're fighting back. Something we addressed in my exclusive interview with the Secretary of Homeland Security, Alejandro Mayorkas. But to understand how we got here, we first have to take a look back. Here's our Jesse Kirsch with the moments that have been dominating the headlines recently. And we want to warn you, some of the language and images are disturbing. This hatred isn't new. 11 dead, 6 injured, and it never really went away. When 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, the world vowed never again. Jews will not replace us! But now, instead of festering in the shadows, genocidal eyes are moving closer to the American mainstream. From a Los Angeles

highway to an alleged threat to a New York City synagogue, anti-Semitism is spreading, as some of our biggest artists. I see good things about Hitler also. Athletes. I cannot be anti-Semitic if I know where I come from. And leaders, including members of Congress on the left and right, even a former president, are accused of fueling anti-Semitism. You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. Most recently, former President Trump dined with a Holocaust-denying

white nationalist as Republicans were criticized for not responding more forcefully. There is no room in the Republican Party for anti-Semitism or white supremacy. Corporations are also under scrutiny. Kyrie Irving was benched eight games for spreading what the NBA commissioner called deeply offensive anti-Semitic material. But it took Nike more than a month to cut ties with him. Adidas dropped the rapper formerly known as Kanye West, but that shoe brand has its own historical ties to Nazi Germany, noticeably not mentioned on its website history page. These moments made headlines, but there have been many more. The Anti-Defamation League says there were 2,717 anti-Semitic incidents in this country

last year alone, including assaults, which hit a record high for the past 40-plus years as the federal government warns of an enduring threat to Jewish Americans. Are you nervous about the way things are in this country right now? Extremely. Extremely. Jacqueline Gold has always felt trepidation. She knows what can happen. You can't go to a synagogue that doesn't have security. There were swastikas in one of the common areas of my dorm. Her grandmother, Erica Gold, says in 1944 she jumped from a truck with her mother and hid in Budapest. If they didn't, she says Nazis would have shot them dead. Erica was just 12 years old.

When somebody, a politician, says something that is bad that he's going to do, believe him. It starts with smaller actions, and then it spirals out of control if we just let it slide. With my grandmother's story, everything was fine until one day it wasn't. Words matter. People are no longer saying the quiet parts out loud. They are literally screaming them. December 7th, second gentleman Doug Emhoff, who is Jewish, led a White House roundtable on anti-Semitism in an effort to reverse a disturbing trend. I think it's just important to separate out the moments where we can say, this is anti-Semitic and here's why. I think that's, in some ways, for the future,

more important than just condemning people who do stuff like that. Law professor Kathy Lester Mansfield teaches about the Holocaust. The beginning of ending up a genocide is separating people into groups and having us and them. And, you know, that is what the white supremacists in this country are trying to do. The most important thing that we need to focus on is education, because hatred really stems from ignorance. And as officials and communities work to deprive this resurgent hate of any oxygen, one thing is already clear. Saying never again may not be enough.

Jesse Kirsch, NBC News. With new data from the government showing hate crimes on the rise, the White House says it's putting together a new interagency group to form a national strategy to combat anti-Semitism. The same day that news broke, I sat down with Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas, who says the issue is deeply personal for him. Mr. Secretary, the data shows that hate crimes are up in the United States and they disproportionately target Jews. You've issued a national terrorism advisory bulletin saying Jews are at risk of violent attack here in the United States. You're here at a synagogue talking about hate against Jewish people today. What does your intelligence tell you about the severity of the threat Jews face in the United States today? Regrettably, Jacob, the threat is only increasing. That is what

we are seeing. The threat landscape is becoming more and more troubling. That is why our work is so important, as well as the FBI's, of course, in investigating acts of hate, but also in securing individuals, in advising them on how they can be safe and secure in the practice of their faith. You're Jewish. Your mother fled the Holocaust and you lost nine family members in the Holocaust. How personal is this to you? It's extraordinarily personal. My mother's experience very much shaped our understanding of the vulnerability and fragility of life anywhere in the world. And it helps drive the imperative to eradicate hate and make people safe of any faith, of any denomination,

of any community. I want to ask you about, former President Trump recently hosted that dinner at Mar-a-Lago with white nationalist and Holocaust denier Nick Fuentes. Kanye West was also a part of that dinner. Kanye West went on to say things like, I like Hitler. I love Jewish people, but I also love Nazis. And I see good things about Hitler. How responsible are President Trump, Kanye West for fueling this kind of hate? Those words are horrific words. They breed more hate, and hate sometimes can materialize into violence. We need our leaders to lead responsibly and uphold and advance the values of our country. And that flies directly against that core ethic. Nearly two years ago at your confirmation hearing, you said that you had wanted to tackle the issue of anti-Semitism once and for all. But what I hear you saying today is it's only gotten worse.

I think that's absolutely right. But our fight has only become more fervent. The resources we've invested in it have become greater. Our dedication to addressing targeted violence against any group has become more and more intense. Unfortunately, Jacob, as you correctly note, the need for it has increased as well. There was a report by the Senate Homeland Security Committee that says DHS isn't doing enough to combat the threat of domestic terrorism on the internet. Do you think that DHS needs to be doing more? Well, you know, the difficulty here is the following, that there is a fundamental right, of course, of free speech. And it is not for us to tackle that speech itself, however odious, however offensive it might be. We get involved when there's a connectivity

between an ideology of hate and violence. It is that act of violence that brings us to the table to, number one, prevent it, to equip people to respond to it and prove resilient. What can the government do to stop the spread of anti-Semitism? Well, you know, the president has discussed a campaign, a national campaign to eradicate anti-Semitism, to eradicate hate. He hosted, and the vice president hosted, a summit against hate at the White House. You know,

the power of convening, of shining a light on the problem, just as you, quite frankly, Jacob, are doing right now, is so very important. So people are aware of the issue, its gravity, its extent. And the convening power to bring people together is something that should not be underestimated. It's power. And then taking that convening, that bringing people together of different denominations, of different backgrounds, and then defining what actions we must all take, which we in the Department of Homeland Security certainly are doing with our partners. Last on anti-Semitism, do you believe that your Judaism makes you a target? Regrettably, Jacob, I've learned that I'm a target for a number of reasons in a country

that is unfortunately very divided. But we have to do what we have set out to do in our respective roles of responsibility in society and make this country better. Do you feel safe? I feel safe because of the extraordinary people with whom I work. Great. Thanks, Secretary Marrakesh. Good to see you.

Likewise. Thanks. Coming up next, the concerns officials are seeing over online threats and the real fear that's coursing through the Jewish community. Is America still the safe haven that it once was? Plus my conversation with Norman Lear about how marginalized communities can unite to combat hate. I have visited 10 countries, four different continents, to convey the message that the United States government takes anti-Semitism seriously

and expects these other countries to do likewise. However, unlike my predecessors, all very talented and committed people, I can't go to these countries and say, you have a problem. Now we have to say, we have a serious problem. Strong words there from Ambassador Deborah Lipsatt, who monitors global anti-Semitism for the State Department. I want to welcome you back to our NBC News Now special report, Epidemic of Hate, Anti-Semitism in America. Joining me here is Yael Eisenstadt. She is the vice president of the Center for Technology and Society at the Anti-Defamation

League. And Matthew D. Gewirtz, the senior rabbi, Congregation B'nai Jeshurin. He's also the author of To Build a Brave Space, The Making of a Spiritual First Responder. Yale, I want to start with you. We heard what Secretary Mayorkas said to me about fighting hate online, and what he characterizes is the inability, in some cases, of the Department of Homeland Security to do that because of free speech. You lead the ADL's efforts to hold tech companies accountable for hate and extremism online. Is he right about that? So, yes, on the one hand, it is not government's role to tell a tech company what speech can be on the platform. But that's why we in civil society and the ADL in particular

think it's incredibly important to continue to tell tech companies that what is happening on their platforms actually translates into violence in the real world. And so we will continue to push to hold them accountable for their own roles in helping exacerbate some of this hate. Rabbi, why is this a threat now, today, and what can be done to stop it? Well, it's been a threat for thousands of years. I always say that anti-Semitism is the early warning system. When you see that coming towards Jews, it's about to permeate all places. It's also not a rational conversation. Here we are trying to have a rational conversation about something that's completely irrational. And the truth is, is that it exists for many, many different reasons. It's

about ignorance of people not knowing others itself. It's about a society whose fabric is fraying. And whenever it's fraying, people want to use scapegoats to divert attention from what's actually wrong and consolidate power for themselves, an intoxication of power. I just want to be self-reflective also about exactly why today. I think that because so many Jews are not of color, there are many Jews of color, but because they're not, we're not always seen as a minority group. And the truth is, given the last five years, we are and we feel under attack. Yael, how do you describe this moment in sort of the history of anti-Semitism in the United States? So, you know, for over four decades, the ADL has actually been monitoring and tracking

anti-Semitic incidents in the U.S. And last year, it was up 34 percent over the year before, after already a few years of rising. And I just want to drill home that unchecked anti-Semitism online does spawn real world violence. All you have to do is look at Pittsburgh and Poway and Buffalo. All three of those mass shooters had been following anti-Semitic conspiracy theories online and used those conspiracy theories to then be inspired to go out and commit these terrible acts. What do you hear from your congregants, Rabbi? Is there a climate of fear? Are you increasing

security at the synagogue? Security has increased exponentially. I won't go into detail for obvious reasons, but it's increased our budget in a significant way. Yes, people walk around daily. There's not now a day that goes by where people don't say to me, I'm scared. How do we react? And the most important thing is not to be paralyzed by the fear, but to bring light into these dark times. Some of the celebrities that are spewing anti-Semitism in this country have just extraordinarily massive followings.

Kanye West, for instance, had 30 million followers on Twitter before he was kicked off of Twitter for a second time. There's, by some counts, I think only 15 million Jews worldwide. So what type of power do these celebrities have over controlling the conversation that's going on right now? So that's the exact important point, right? He has more followers than there are Jews. And so that's why it's extra important when you have somebody with such a large platform and so much influence, not just viewing anti-Semitic tropes and conspiracy theories, but also inspiring so many people to follow his words. That's where it's extra dangerous. And

that's why we feel it is extra important to speak out. I was wondering what you guys made of this. I saw that anti-Semitic posts referring to Jews or Judaism soared more than 61 percent in the two weeks after Elon Musk acquired Twitter. What do you make of that? On one hand, as Americans, we really need to support free speech. On the other hand, there's a reason that we have something that says when there's fire in a movie theater, we yell fire. So we need to, in good faith and as grownups, not that we're not grownups, but to act as grownups to actually decide where those lines are drawn. I also want to add that it's not just the uptick, serious uptick in anti-Semitism, it's normalization of such. So when Kanye West

can reach 30 million people who maybe have not met Jews before, they just say it must be the way it is. President Biden announced his task force, the creation of a task force to fight anti-Semitism. We saw the second gentleman convene this group at the White House. Secretary Mayorkas issued this national terrorism advisory bulletin saying that Jews are under threat of violent domestic extremism in the United States. What do you make of all of these moves? I'm thankful for them. I think that the difference between 1935 and 2022 is that we have levers of power that we didn't have then.

We have advocacy groups. We have a second gentleman who's Jewish, after all. And that means that we are in places where we need to use our voices. Real quick before we have to go, what will lead to lasting change? So a number of things. Again, first and foremost, more people speaking out about these issues in terms of social media, trying to figure out how they can take more responsibility for not just the hate on their platforms, but for how they amplify it. And again, I just want to drill home the point that anti-Semitism is the proverbial canary in the coal mine. When you see anti-Semitism rise, there's a very good chance that violence against other groups

is right behind it. Gael Eisenstadt, Rabbi Matthew D. Gewirtz, thank you so much both for joining us. And stay with us because historically, Black and Jewish Americans have been some of the biggest targets of hate. Joining us now is Jewish American icon, producer Norman Lear, and executive director of People for the American Way and former Democratic mayor of Ithaca, New York, Zivante Myrick. Norman, you have not shied away from calling out hate when you see it. You called former President Trump a horse's a** after some recent comments he made about American Jews. What's it like for you today, 90 years later,

to see anti-Semitism permeate the highest levels of American politics and even culture, with Kanye West going so far as to praise Hitler? You know, as I hear you say that, I can't believe it, that in this moment in time, in this precious... I mean, America has not realized all of its promise, but the promise is nonetheless there. There are enough of us dedicated to that promise. All men created equal, all of that. It's hard to believe that we're in a discussion about withergoist America in that regard at this moment.

Savante, let me turn to you. As a former mayor, Savante, in upstate New York, you have had firsthand experience in how this type of anti-Semitism is more than just words. I'd love for you to share that with us. Yeah, sure. You know, when you lead a community and you see what could start as the graffiti written on a wall or the occasional hate tweet from a political leader actually turn into violent threats, right? When we had some of the most actionable threats of domestic violence and terrorism in our community that was fueled by

anti-Semitism, it made me start to study the issue even more clearly. You know, the person who drove to Buffalo and massacred black people in their grocery store. He was seeking a grocery store that he knew black people went to. Why? Because he was mad not just at black folks, but he was mad at Jewish folks. Recognizing that the root fuel of anti-Semitism is the same as anti-blackness. And it's that when those two forces combine, you get white supremacy. Norman, you might have seen that Jon Stewart recently responded to Dave Chappelle's SNL monologue that was criticized as normalizing anti-Semitism. Here's what

Stewart had to say about that. Let's watch. Now, everybody obviously calls me and says, like, do you see Dave on SNL? And I'm like, yes, we're very good friends. I always watch and send nice texts. He normalized anti-Semitism with the monologue. And I'm like, yes, we're very good friends. I always watch and send nice texts. He normalized anti-Semitism with the monologue. And I'm like, I don't know if you've been on comment sections on most news articles, but it's pretty normal. Like anti-Semitism, I mean, as you know, it's incredibly normal. But the one thing I will say is I don't believe that censorship and and penalties are the way to end anti-Semitism or to not gain understanding. I don't believe in that. That, Norman, was Jon Stewart defending Dave Chappelle's SNL monologue in which, you know, he made jokes, some criticized at the expense of

American Jews. Do you think Jon Stewart is right to defend Dave Chappelle there? I think he is totally right. Totally right. Why, Norman? I think Jon Stewart is entirely right. He was on the subject from a, I'm convinced, a good mind, a heart, and soul. And I don't remember the wording well enough. I didn't think he stumbled at all, but perhaps he did in the eyes and ears of others. But Dave Chappelle, I think the world of his comedy, and I think Jon Stewart is right. Well, from my perspective, there are jokes, right? And Norman himself brought the world together by laughing at some of these differences between cultures. I mean, from all in the family

to Maude, by pointing out the things that make us different, by making light of them, you can actually bring people together. But of course, there's a difference between what they as comedians are doing and what a Nick Fuentes is doing by trying to drive division and hate. I wonder, Norman, you know, you supported the Nazis right to march at Skokie. You supported the Nazis freedom of speech, even though in the 80s later, you were a target of a potential assassination attempt. Would you do the same thing today? How is this moment different? I would support the right to free speech in this country and fight to the death the people who are preaching hate in any direction, whether it's white people against black people or far right against, you know, far right Republicans.

Just seeing the two of you sit next to each other, it brings up for me a fissure that others have pointed out between the historic black and Jewish alliance that dates back to the civil rights movement. Do you see a similar fissure? And do you think it's a rift that needs repairing? I think it's like any relationship with a spouse, with a parent, with children. It only works if you work it. You know. We can only hold us together if we are constantly reaching out to each other, staying in conversation. But we also have to be aware that unlike most other relationships, there are people who are actively and intentionally trying to split us apart. From the KKK to Nick Fuentes, they're folks who recognize that when black folks and Jewish folks have been in alignment, their hate-filled agenda has actually moved backwards.

Savante, Norman, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to do this and to have such a critical conversation. Why don't you take some time and try? Amen and touche to the legend. Before we go, a final thought from me. Secretary Mayorkas talked earlier in the show about how the conversation we're having tonight is extraordinarily personal to him. I don't often talk about my Jewish upbringing, at least in depth, but it is to yours truly as well.

Usually I'll say I'm not religious. The culture is a part of my family. My mom's folks owned a Jewish deli in Minneapolis. We didn't lose, as far as I know, family to the Holocaust. Sometimes I'll acknowledge my Judaism with a quip or a joke. But working on this special and reporting on it for this network has been extremely meaningful when it comes to reflecting on my Judaism. Earlier this year, reporting in Ukraine, I watched as families that fled the Holocaust fled yet another foreign invasion. Now again, we're seeing an ugly surge of anti-Semitism here at home and its consequences. Consequences so familiar for so many, including indigenous, racial, ethnic, religious, and LGBTQ plus groups in this

nation. Less than a week ago, I had a chance encounter and met a Soboroff cousin for the first time, her two kids as well, as I stood with my seven-year-old son. She said to me how remarkable it was that Hirsch Soboroff, that's my middle name, Hirsch, along with his wife and 12 kids left the Russian shuttle where they lived and came to the United States. And so many of us were here in the U.S. today. We were lucky. And still are, she said.

I agree. As a reporter and as a person, I am grateful for the opportunity to be here to have this conversation with our guest tonight and with you. Let's keep it going. That's it for our special. We'll continue to keep a close eye on these stories and bring you the very latest right here on NBC News Now. I'm Jacob Soboroff.

Thanks for watching.