New Heights with Jason and Travis Kelce - Sanders’ Drop, Gorilla Fights and Ben Affleck on Accountant 2, Damon’s Abs and Catching with Brady | EP 137

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

92%ers welcome back to another episode of New Heights brought to you by our friends at Dunkin’!Today, Jason and Travis recap the Chiefs and Eagles draft classes, reveal why they secretly love the Browns’ Shadeur Sanders pick, and explain why “character concerns” are overrated. We’ve also got an incredible conversation with Hollywood icon Ben Affleck. We discuss why The Account hits home for Jason, how building a culture on a movie set is the same as in an NFL locker room, which Boston team is secretly his favorite, his life-changing experience of running routes for Tom Brady, why Ben is sick of Matt Damon’s abs, and more! Stick around until the end for a recap of Jason and Travis' time at the 8am Golf Tournament and our attempt to solve the “Gorilla Fight Debate.”For even more New Heights, check out our New Heights YouTube Membership! As a member, you'll get access to full episodes, bonus videos, badges, and other stuff that will make you stand out. You can also listen to new episodes early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. ...Download the full podcast here:Wondery: https://wondery.app.link/s9hHTgtXpMbApple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-heights/id1643745036Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/1y3SUbFMUSESC1N43tBleK?si=LsuQ4a5MRN6wGMcfVcuynwFollow New Heights on Social Media for all the best moments from the show: https://lnk.to/newheightshowCheck out all of our new merch at https://homage.com/newheights From now until May 4th, we’re offering 25% off New Heights apparel, so it’s a perfect time to treat yourself. Go to homage.com/NewHeights and use the promo code “NewHeights25”Support the Show:  AMERICAN EXPRESS: For full terms and to learn more about the powerful backing of American Express, visit https://americanexpress.com/withAmexREESE’S: Reese’s new PB&J cups. What’s your jam? Found wherever candy is sold!FARMER’S DOG: Get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food at https://TheFarmersDog.com/newheights. Plus, you get FREE shipping!ALL STATE: Checking first is smart. So, check https://Allstate.com first for a quote that could save you hundreds.ACCELERATOR: Click the link below to get a case of the Kelce Brothers’ favorite energy drink! https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/FB06B38E-F0C2-479F-9DA5-FD4A1C852B07?channel=NewHeights2025 DRAFT KINGS: Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/newheights or through my promo code NEWHEIGHTS.Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER.18+ (21+ in certain states) to open, own, or access an advance deposit wagering account and resident of state where DK Horse is available. Eligibility restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Opt-in req. Min. $5wager. Only the first straight single horse win wager on the Kentucky Derby placed after opt-in is eligible.Wager must win to qualify for an equal share of $1,000,000.Reward issued in cash within 7 days of race completion via a click to claim, which expires 30 days (720 hours) after receipt. Unclaimed rewards will be forfeited. Ends at the closing of the final wagering pool for the Kentucky Derby on 5/3/25. Terms: www.dkhorse.com/bet/offers/details. Sponsored by DK Horse.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to new heights early and ad free plus unlock access to exclusive episodes of the show Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app Apple podcast or Spotify today Go loco for Cinco at Quesada burrito and tacos may 1st to 5th Enjoy five days of awesome offers and prizes and up to five times points on eligible purchases Celebrate Cinco de Mayo Quesadaada style. Real Mexican flavor to the max. Visit Quesada.ca. Travis Kelsey also famously slid from character concerns. So Shador, look no further.

This could be you. Jason Kelsey, character concerns fell all the way to the six row. Major, major. Character concerns and size concerns. What do you think about that Jason Kelsey guy? Well, I've heard he's an asshole. He's a fucking lunatic.

Loses his temper all the time, so not on top of that, he's too small. Let's pick him in the sixth round. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome back to New Heights, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, a Wondry show produced by Waves Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by Dunkin' Donuts. No way!

What a great sponsor. They sent me munchkins. The wonderful delight that just, it doesn't make you feel like you're eating too bad until the entire box is gone and you're like, oh shit, that was a lot of donuts I just ate. I mean, that's the trick of it, right? Just make them smaller. I'm definitely gonna go breakfast sandwich. Oh, what you got there?

Sausage, chicken, cheese, English muffin. Pretty damn good. We're your hosts. I'm Travis Gouss and my big brother Jason Kelsey out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio. Shout out to the Cavs, baby, the old Coliseum out in Richfield. Cavs, swept the heat. Looking to advance already. Get some rest days.

Subscribe on YouTube, One Two Plus, wherever you get your podcasts and follow the show on social media at New Heights Show with 1S. Jason, let the people know what we got coming up. Oh, you're gonna wanna stay tuned. We are going to recap everything that happened in the NFL Draft. Well, not everything.

We're gonna cut the hotspots like usual. Answer some of your no dumb questions and we're gonna get to a great combo with the one and only Mr. Ben Affleck. You! Okay, time out. Is it Affleck or Affleck? It's Affleck, I believe. I always call him Ben Affleck. It's not it. You got to say it right. I probably just said Ben Affleck as well.

I mean, it's definitely ECK. But I feel like everybody pronounces it Ben Affleck. No, no, I don't think anybody does. I've never heard anybody call Ben Ben Affleck never heard that I think I hear it every single time. I hear somebody say his name Brandon say Ben's name Ben Affleck You're always saying it because we just went over you Ben Affleck how fast was that how quick on the draw was I at that? Ben Affleck that was quick. That was quick. Am I just in a like a Black Mirror episode right now? I feel like that the whole there's like a whole time conundrum thing of multi-universities. You've been saying Affleck your entire life, but anybody that actually sees how his name is

like wrote and written or like spelled, they're going to say it correctly. It's like people calling us Kels our entire lives. No, that's, that's where you're wrong. Before we get any of that, we're going to get to that thing we always get to. New News! New News! All righty, New News is brought to you by American Express. Let's start with some homage promo. That's right. We're going to sell you some shit from our friends at homage from now until May 4th. We're offering 25% off new heights apparel. So it's a perfect time to treat yourself as a, oh my God, what was that name from a parks and rec Tom have a Haver, Haverford. Haverford. He doesn't know what I'm talking about. Anyways, go treat yourself. Go to homage.com slash new heights and use promo code NEWHEIGHTS25.

All right, guest episode announcement. We're going to be back next week with another episode 90%ers are going to want to see and to inform. We can say who it is that we really want to. Do we want to say? No, I think we should keep it on ice for a second. Should we get teasers? Let's get some teasers. Oh, all right. All right. All right. We can't say this person's name, gender, where they're from or where they live currently. Okay. She is somebody's mother.

Travis, you can't say what gender it is. Travis, you can't say what gender it is. You're right. You won that one. God damn it Travis. Our mom is joining us. Yep, Donna Kelsey is joining us. Couldn't keep it together. Yeah, no, we clearly could not.

It's Mother's Day special. Everybody knew who was coming on. We're getting Donna Kelsey on the show. It's going to be a fucking blast because that's what Donna is. She's an absolute blast of a human being. It's going to be great. Haven't had mom and Kelsey on in a while, so we're going to have to see what she's going to do.

We're going to have to see what she's going to do. We're going to have to see what she's going to do. We're going to have to see what she's going to do. We're going to have to see what she's going to do. We're going to have to see what she's going to do. We're going to have to see what she's going to do. We're going to have to see what she's going to do. We're going to have to see what she's going to do. We're going to have to see what she's going to do. We're going to have to show. It's going to be a fucking blast because that's what Donna is. She's an absolute blast of a human being. It's gonna be great.

I haven't had Mama Kelsey on in a while, so you guys will get caught up with how Mommy's doing. Travis, you're a grown man. Stop calling Mom Mommy. Mommy! Stop. Nope. Stop that right now.

I'm gonna keep doing it. I'm so comfortable with my manhood, Jason. It's not about a manhood, Travis. It's about being, I don't know, but it's about being not weird, is what it is, okay? Mommy! I mean, if you say it like that, when you're around her, not weird. But when you say having mommy on, that's weird. No, it's not.

Daddy! Yes, girly? I'm Jasper. Oh. No, Jason, youly? I'm Caswell. Oh. No, Jason, you need to correct her right now. She either calls you dad or dadda. He does not call you daddy. She does not call you daddy.

If she calls you daddy, that's just weird. No, Travis, she's a toddler. All right, we got our mom coming on special episode. That's it for new news brought to you by Merit Express. All right,. We've actually got some NFL news. Last week was the NFL draft and apparently everyone tuned in. Why is the NFL draft so much better than the other drafts? Besides the NFL just being more watched? I don't know. What's the turnover in the NFL? I think there's like, there's always like at least like 300 to

400 new players every single year. I don't think it's like, there's always like at least like 300 to 400 new players every single year. I don't think it's like that in any other sport. Maybe baseball. Marshall S. Nooors The chances of the players you're watching get picked in the NBA actually making a difference outside of like the top, you know, what, five picks like every year, it's like kind of a crap shoot a little bit. Is that what you're saying? I think so. And I think the entire like, I don't know. That's a great question. I'm trying to like compare it to other sports, but college basketball, I would assume is

just as exciting as college football. And you know, the anticipation of the greatest players in that league going to the next level, I don't know. It's a great question. I think this is why football is king. Yeah. All right. And let's look at the, let's look at who the Chiefs picked. Sure.

Yeah, let's look at it. Round number one, 32nd overall pick, Josh Simmons, offensive tackle out of Ohio State, 6'5", 3'17", that's a big old boy right there. Big boy. How big of a boy are you? This is one of the guys I actually watched a little bit. I like absolutely love this guy on tape. The way he moves reminds me a lot of some high level players, the way he bends, plays with his ass low to the ground.

His arms only say 33, but it feels like he's got much bigger length than that. He is big, he's strong, he moves people, he's an outstanding pass blocker. This and the Eagles first round picks were two of the biggest steals in the draft. I'm not just saying that because they're both our teams. I really think if Josh Simmons doesn't tear his patella tendon, he's the first tackle off the board most likely. The fact that the Chiefs got him at 32 could be like unbelievable value if he comes back from the knee injury. We're gonna have to wait and see how this kid comes back from this injury.

No, I don't think we have to wait and see. I think it's a sign sealed delivered. This guy's gonna be a hall of famer. I mean, if he comes back from the knee, there's a signed seal delivered. This guy's going to be a hall of famer. I mean, if he comes back from the knee, there's a very good chance. This guy is very impressive. If something tells me he's

already, he's already there. He's already there. Number 63, Omar Norman lot. How about it? D tackle out of Tennessee. Uh first defensive tackle to be selected by the chiefs in the second round since defensive tackle Chris Jones. Hey, you gotta love being in the same conversations as Chris Jones. Saw the uh I've only seen highlights of these guys and uh absolute stud. Absolute stud.

Kind of revamped offensive line, defensive line with our first two to three picks. We went with Ashton uh gosh I don't know how to say his last name. Jalot? Jaloti. Jaloti, you sure? It's definitely not it. No, it's not it. It might be it actually.

I have no idea. Played a Louisville though. Tells me he's got a blue collar kid, hard worker. Yeah. If you're going to the third round with the Chiefs, you're going to be just fine. I know one or two guys that are still on the team. 13 years down the road, they got picked in the third round. Same defense align coach is George Karloftis.

I'm a big fan of these top three picks. I think the Chiefs clearly last year obviously struggled at the tackle position. They answered that right away with Josh Simmons, a kid that could have incredible upside. And then really, they bolstered the defense a lot with the next two picks, which they needed to do. I think that the defense is very close to being unbelievable. And because of spags and some of the pieces, it was unbelievable last year. But they've needed to revamp a little bit of that size and athleticism upfront. And hopefully these two kids can do that. You know what? Well, we didn't leave the third round without attacking the DB room.

Got a cornerback out of Cal. Noel Williams led the FBS with seven interceptions. So I guess you already know we can love a good ball in the secondary now. It's got some accolades and I mean, seven picks. That's, I mean, you got to love a DB who can catch the fucking ball. Jalen Royals wide receiver out of Utah State. This is how I tell you what, dude, fourth round getting a guy that runs a 4-4-2 that just takes shit to the house. I saw that he had like 15 touchdowns this year or something like that.

He runs a 4-4-2. Yeah. He's a 4-4-2. Yeah. He's a strong wide receiver now. Round five, Jeffrey Bassah, linebacker, Oregon, tallied at least 45 tackles in each of his first four seasons with the Ducks. Again, not that impressive. He served as Oregon's green dot in 2024. Meaning he helped just about his 45 tackles in each of his first four seasons.

Like this special team is only get 45 tackles branded. He served as Oregon's green dot in 2024, meaning he called the defense of plays on field. That is what that means. You want to say the last guy? Richard Smith running back SMU heard through the grapevine through my guy, uh, Garret Deter and his SMU connects. Um, shout out to Deets. He was saying that this guy is a baller. He's just an all around baller yet. It's 1,977 all purpose yards,

which is a pretty fucking ridiculous. He ran the third fastest 40 yard dash of any running back at the combine. So yes, it's really, really excited about this guy. He's a wide receiver, I believe turned running back and yeah, excited to get an athlete like that and a guy that could just, you know, get the ball in his hands and do something with it. Sounds like a dual threat multiple purpose type running back use them in a lot of different ways. You guys had your

back that did that a lot last year was P Ryan, which I loved. I loved Samaje P Ryan, third down back. God damn it. That guy was good, man. Awesome teammate, too. I dug his overall vibe. Richard, maybe he can fill in that role. That's a crucial role. We lost our guy there, Kenny Gainwell. He was a big third down back for us for a long time, moved on this off season. It's an important piece that a lot of times gets overlooked. Who's that back that is kind of that jack of all trades, third down, very reliable. So they have a chance to compete round seven. I love what we did in the draft though, Handled some, we lost some guys on the

defensive line, filled those roles. Got a big old tackle to protect Pat and move some bodies in the run game. And then on top of that, just add pieces left and right in the secondary and on the offensive weapons side, man. It's, I'm pumped, man. I'm pumped to get these guys into building and who knows what else V just cooking up with all the undrafted free agents that we're going to see in rookie mini camp next week. It's an exciting time of year, man. You get this. Yes. For those of you that don't know, we're going through all these graphics. I don't think Travis or I put a lot of stock into pre-draft analysis. Yeah. The reason for that is like, you never know. I mean, sometimes you have a really good

feeling about a guy. A lot of times teams will feel really good about a number of their guys. But at the end of the day, once the guy gets out there, once he gets in the building, that's when you really get to start to know who's who and what guys, you know, kind of have it. Whether it's all the physical stature stuff, the mental acuity, the competitive nature, none of that stuff is really going to fully be transparent until you start seeing them in person against NFL guys out on the field. So it's an exciting time to be in the NFL. I think for all the fans, the exciting thing just happened.

The draft, right? For players and teammates, now's the exciting time. Now we're going to get to see all these guys and all these new pieces and actually see, you know, who can play and who can compete. And who's going to make the building fun, man? Who's going to come in and juice us up and help the culture be even more exciting than what it is? Hell yeah. Let's look at these Eagles picks, man. What did you guys go with? Eagles, first round we trade with you guys.

How about that? Go from competing in the Super Bowl to trading draft picks. Let me tell you about my best friend, the one who let me trade up to stop somebody else from taking him. Yeah, so we traded with the Kansas City Chiefs from 32 to 31, just one spot, to get Jahad Campbell from Alabama. Love this pick. I love this pick because I think the Eagles, what they've done really well the last few drafts that have panned out for them is they've gotten amazing value at different spots where guys start to slide and they are regarded by everybody

out there as being players that are really, really talented that should have been taken higher. But for whatever reason, whether there's an injury like what happened with Josh Simmons, or maybe it's a position that doesn't necessarily get rated as highly or there's times that are cause for concern. The Eagles have done a great job of just picking really good players for value picks where that guy should have gone before that based on how he was as a college player. And I think they got that with John Campbell. He's a linebacker. For some reason, off-ball linebacker is a position that's been a little bit devalued in the NFL recently. Everybody tends to have gone defensive line or DBs with these picks early.

I think the Eagles saw last year how much Zach Bond made a difference to the overall defense for Philadelphia. He was in for Defensive Player of the Year. The Eagles have great coaches. They probably have a lot of confidence in their ability of these coaches to scout different players. So, they end up getting a guy that they really feel really highly about. Now you're going to pair him with Zach Bond. I mean, this is an amazingly talented second level now in the Philadelphia Eagles with

this guy. You can also rush the passer, I guess. But no, I'm excited. I'm excited to watch him play. Round two, pick 64, safety Andrew McCuba out of Texas. Don't know much about him to be honest with you. Haven't watched a lot of college football, but Brandon Borders, our resident Texas expert, says he's a little guy that hits really hard. Dog. Dog. You got a little guy that hits really hard. Dog. Dog. You got a dog.

You got a dog. I got to hype with my guy. I love it. I love it. I love it. A lot of hype coming out of Andrew McCuba. And I feel like another one. It's another similar pick where it feels like he was slated higher and the Eagles ended up

getting him in the second round of pick 64. Round four, they go deep at the tackle Ty Robinson. And not only are they getting guys of great value, they're getting guys in positions that they need, right? Linebacker, they lost a couple linebackers in the off season. N'Kobe Dean's coming off of injury. They need to continue to upgrade that position. They get safety Andrew McCube after letting CJ GJ go last year. Daria Slay, my man, big play. Slay is gone. So there's some secondary things that they need to shore up. And then obviously, defense align was their big need. I think a lot of people were

talking about going into the draft and they finally get to that in round four with Ty Robinson, teammate of Cam Juergens at Nebraska. I don't know if you saw this, Trev. He's a pet camel. Take a look at this tweet. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. I don't know about the pet camel. He's pretty fucking pumped on the pet camel. Is that- I mean, listen- Where does he keep that thing?

Where does he keep it? I don't know. I mean, at his barn, his farm. It's a camel farm. It's got a camel farm, maybe. Are camels suited for every climate? They're suited for Nebraska, apparently. I mean Omaha, Nebraska does have one of the finest zoos in the state of America. There's actually a camel, there's a little like petting zoo type farm thing that we took the girls to around our house one time and they had a camel. See this guy spits?

Camels are known for spitting. This guy spits in people's faces. A little Bill Romanowski action to him. That ain't right. I hope not. We got to play with a little bit more class, but same time. Whatever you got to do, you get the job done, Ty. Don't worry about it. And then the rest of the draft, we continued to fill out needs on the defensive side of the ball as well as show up the offensive line. The offensive line was the position. It felt like offensively that the Eagles wanted to continue to fill out the depth. I do think it's interesting. They didn't pick an offensive line until round five with Drew Kendall,

and that tells me that they're pretty confident with who they have rolling into this. They got Tyler Steen at right guard, who has been competing for the starting job for at least one year. Really played a lot my last year too, he's got a lot of upside, especially if he can improve the consistency, has done a lot of good things with the Eagles. And then on top of that, signed Matt Prior this off season, they traded for Kenyon Green from Houston. So there's a lot of competition here. They drafted Drew Kendall Center out of Boston College. They drafted a couple tackles late in Miles Hinton and Cameron Williams. So there's a lot of competition that Stout's going to be able to work with in that room. I'm excited

to see what these guys got, man. I think when you get into these later rounds, it's kind of a crapshoot, you know. You're waiting to see everybody, once you're outside of the first round, second round, especially the third round, all these guys have some type of weakness, have something that's holding them back that's causing them to go outside of the top three rounds. And you get to see what their strengths are, where they can improve at, which guys are going to pan out. And it's just, it's fun to watch these guys compete and get better and Especially watching Jeff Stoutland work with them. I'm excited to see each and every one of them, you know it

Well, you guys also got a QB and Kyle McCord in the sixth round out of Syracuse I actually remember watching this this dude play a little bit in the ACC and It looks like he's a lifelong Eagles fan from up there in the New Jersey area Who's not these days, am I right? Big fan base. Big fan base. I saw like a locker room video of him singing a rap song. Look like he's got some swag to him, which listen, we already know.

Sounds like he's a locker room guy. Exactly. If you're a quarterback and you got some swagger to you, you got a little Baker Mayfield to your ass or some like, just some shit to you. That's a plus. That's a major plus. It's're a quarterback and you got some swagger to you, you got a little Baker Mayfield to your ass or some like, there's some shit to you, that's a plus. That's a major plus. It's always a plus. A lot of times, quarterbacks are very, can kind of be beaten to their own drum. It's a position that gets pandered to a lot. And a lot of the guys that are really good in

college, you know, they're sometimes, you know sometimes not as connected to their teammates as you need to be. I was talking to Marcus Spears during the season and he said something I think is just so true. If you want to be the quarterback, you want to be like one of the great ones, you got to be the guy that everybody is gravitated to, that everybody wants to talk to. You don't got to be everybody's friend, but you have to have this personality that is like magnetic and drives people.

And you're a focal point of the locker room. Those are what the great ones do. Right. And if you're not going to be that guy, you can have all the talent in the world. You might have success because you're on great teams, but it's going to be hard, especially when times aren't going well, to be somebody that galvanizes people to play well around you. And you're going to have to do that to be one of the best. This is all saying, I like that he acted like he had a gun and he was doing his cool thing in the locker room.

I think it shows he's got some swag to him. Pew pew, pew pew. Biggest story out of the draft was obviously Shadr or Sanders sliding to the fifth round. Many people projected him to be a first round. Some people had like top 10 picks, right? And some of these mock drafts, he was, he was high up there now. Well, he's selected by the Cleveland Browns or Brownies. I love this for Cleveland.

God, I love this for Cleveland. I really do, man. The Browns fan deep down in my heart is just like, fuck yeah. You get a swag champ that works his ass off that has something to prove now. You know, not that he didn't before but you know, he's got that chip on his shoulder. I'm sure because of how much he's dropped and yeah. How could you not? Yeah.

If you're at all a self-confident person who believes in themselves and you're touted by a lot of people and you had the college career that he had, how could you not be upset that you fell out of, fell this far? You know what I mean? Still should be happier in the NFL, but I mean, there's a lot of quarterbacks that are taking above them. There's a quarterback that the Browns selected above them. Who was the quarterback?

Dylan Gabriel was selected in the third round. A lot of anonymous reports prior to the draft that his team interviews went poorly. What do you think, Trav? Why do you think Shador Sanders? I think whoever's a fucking anonymous person that's fucking saying this should fucking come out and say who they were. Say it with your chest. Like, what the fuck is that about? Like, if you're going to fucking leak that type of shit, fucking be the one that says that yeah, it just didn't go well for us. You know, don't fucking say that we're anonymous. You know, that's so fucking lame. Like like, I don't know, I just feel like there's no validity to it. I'm not sure why he dropped. I'm not sure you know, whether it was the interviews or whether it was stuff

that they saw on film, what I saw on film, I thought he was a way higher pick. And I think that's all that should matter. And I mean, it doesn't seem like he's a terrible person. It seems like he's just a motivated football player that is a part of a big football family. And him and his father have kind of taken over the NCAA football for the past three to four years. And whether that's something that NFL teams quote unquote didn't want to deal with, I feel like this is going to be such a fresh start for him. And now it's going to feel,

I can see him working his ass off and becoming the starting quarterback in Cleveland at some point for sure. Personally, I think a lot of these interviews went poorly, or the off-the-field antics between Dion and whatever media stuff Shador's got going on. I think all that is getting blown way out of proportion as a factor for this. I think the reality is to me, and the way I look at it is, it's hard to find a great quarterback in this league. If these teams really felt that Shador Sanders was a top first round talent, they would have picked him.

That's what I think. I think if you, you mean to tell me if Michael Vick was, had these same exact off field things happening or you know, if he was Michael Vick's exact talent, he wouldn't have been taken to the first round? Of course he would have. Teams said on draft day, they don't think Shador Sanders' potential warrants being drafted that high at the next level. Okay. Now, for whatever reason that is, I don't know why that is. I don't even barely watch Shador Sanders, but I ain't going to sit here and tell you that like, there's too many players with character issues, with concerns every year coming out about criminal behavior,

off-field antics, and other things that get drafted in the first round. And they get drafted in the first round because they are ballers and the NFL wants great players. The fact that he got drafted at 144 in the fifth round tells me that maybe these off field things mattered a little bit. But the bottom line is teams just do not think the potential of Shador Sanders panning out the next level is high enough to warrant an earlier pick. And teams get this wrong all the time. They got it wrong with Brock Purdy. They got it wrong with Tom Brady. This is not like an exact science. And I hope that and I'm happy. Shadr or Sanders is going to get an opportunity to go to Cleveland because clearly Cleveland

wants to replace our starting quarterback. They picked two of them in the draft. So now you're going to get him a competitive person motivated to prove a bunch of motherfuckers wrong up in Cleveland, Ohio on a team that clearly wants a new quarterback. Yeah. Otherwise they wouldn't have taken Dylan Gabriel in the third round and then picked another one in the fifth. And when it comes to the potential of a player, I think, you know, it's, I think the higher up you go is you're ready now. It might not be that the potential isn't there that you will one day be ready. I

think it's just more questions. There's more questions of what's the maximum potential, where is this player at currently. There's a ton of opportunity and potential that the kid has. And there's been tons of players that have been drafted in the later rounds who teams have questions about that end up panning out. And a lot of that comes down to the intangibles. A lot of that comes down to, you know, does he just have this it factor? Everybody, that's what everybody's kind of waiting to see. At the end of the day, he's been successful everywhere he's been. He's throwing accuracy. None of that stuff teams can avoid accepting, but they will find all these other little things to say like, oh, he doesn't

have this, he doesn't have that. Tim Tebow had a lot of stuff in college too, and he didn't pan out in the end of it. They're looking to find these little things that cause them to have concern about why you might not pan out the next level. And all I'm saying is, this kid is the dog and the motivated individual. He's got a lot of attributes that lead themselves to being great at the next level. And he's in a situation now that he's going to get a chance to compete. All right now. Yeah. Shadr hit us up if you need any food recommendations out there, Cleveland, big dog.

Good luck. Good luck becoming the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns, brother. I'm rooting for him. I fucking hope that. I mean, talk about a great story. Are you kidding me? How can you not root for the guy right now? I hope he makes it and he brings all of the people that he brought to him to the meetings,

to the contract that he signs after he fucking leads him to some playoff game. You know what I mean? Like just I hope this just happens in the biggest fuck you to everybody around their question and that side of things. But anyways, fucking go. Travis Kelsey also famously slid from character concerns. Arguably was the best tight end on tape. So should or look no further. This could be you. That's Jason Kelsey character concerns fell all the way to the six major character concerns and size concerns. Really think about that

Jason Kelsey guy. Well, is he's's a, he's a fucking lunatic. I've heard he's an asshole, loses his temper all the time. So on top of that, he's too small. Oh yeah. Let's he ran a good 40. That's pick him in the six round. Travis Kelsey. The funny thing about Trav is that like there was nothing outside of the injuries.

I guess you had two things. You had, you had had a few injuries and then you obviously had the marijuana thing stemming from your sophomore year. But outside of that, like I only remember people- You're saying marijuana makes it sound so more intense. Why does that word sound so intense? Maybe it's just like- Is it just funny that- do you ever stop the thing?

You probably got drafted an entire round later than you should have. Maybe even, I mean, you could have- the tape that you had your senior year was incredible. So... I had only had two years at tight end. Well, you really only had one year of playing fully healthy the whole year. I just think it's funny sometimes looking back and like, there are all these concerns about Travis Kelce and like, everybody who ever knew knew you knew you were a great kid you just had like a mess up with marrow like weed sorry and then all of a sudden like teams aren't picking you for it like think about that today like even back then 75% NFL players are smoking weed what the fuck are we

talking about we're gonna like act like this is a death sentence yeah we are just blows my mind now it's crazy's crazy, man. Everybody's all good, though. Shout out to Big Red. It all worked out great. Worked out perfect. I just want everybody that drops in the draft for like whatever character concerns or whatever, if it ever pans out, they should just do that exact same character concern. Like you should have just walked into signing your second deal with a blunt in your hand smoking it as a sign of the paper. So what do I what do I sign this? I'm not condoning smoking weed, but unless you sign a multimillion year deal, and you want to say fuck you to all the people that doubted

you because you did smoke weed. I'm just signing the wrong parts of the contract. Travis, you didn't sign a single line correctly. Travis, we said side here. All right. Well, either way, the draft is in the books. 2025 draft is officially over. Now we get to see if these guys are actually any good and it's going to be a lot of fun. All right. I, uh, I say we get out of this draft and toss it to the old Ben Affleck interview. Yep. Ben Affleck. Let's go. Come on now. Alrighty. And now a moment brought to you by American Express.

Jason, what's the most memorable meal you've ever had? Weenies and beans from Dad. That's the most memorable? Yeah, I think it's pretty... Maybe try one that you've gone out to eat with for and used an AmEx for. Uncrustables. Ooh, nice. They're that memorable.

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Whole Foods started in the counterculture city of Austin, Texas and it took pride in being anti-corporate and outside the mainstream. But like the city itself, Whole Foods has morphed over the years for better and perhaps for worse and is now a multi-billion dollar brand. In the latest season of Business Wars, we explore the meteoric rise of the Whole Foods brand. On its surface, it's a story of how an idealistic founder made good on his dream of changing American food culture.

But it's also a case study in the conflict between ambition and idealism, how lofty goals can wilt under the harsh light of financial realities, and what gets lost on the way to the top. Follow Business Wars on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge Business Wars, The Whole Foods Rebellion early and ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Alrighty, thank you to our partner DraftKings. The Kentucky Derby is this Saturday, May 3rd. Jason, here is how we are going to make

the official New Heights Kentucky Derby pick. We're gonna pick blind based on only the name of the horse. So here's those horsies. I'm gonna just pull up on screen. Oh, I'm looking at them. What are you thinking? What are you feeling? What are the vibes?

Man, there's some really good names. Favorite name, right off the jump. Right off the jump, What sticks out to you? Probably Tiztastic. Tiztastic? I don't even know what that means, but I like it. It's got a Z in it. I like Render Judgment.

Render Judgment? Sounds like a dickhead horse. Flying Mohawk's not bad. Flying Mohawk's pretty good. Chunk of gold would be fun to have win. What is the number two one? Neo-Equus. Neo-Equus.

It sounds pretentious and I don't like it. I'll go with Citizen Bull. You're going to go with Citizen Bull. Okay. Is that's you're going to, you want to lock that in as the official New Heights pick of the derby. Sounds serious enough. It almost sounds like it's like Native American, which it probably isn't. There's something about it that I like. Okay. All right, folks, Citizen Bull. That is the official New Heights pick. I like Citizens. I like Bulls. Okay, you put them together in a horse and you've got a winner. You had to get into the action.

We have teamed up with DraftKings to bring you the ultimate derby experience. That's right. DraftKings is turning up the thrill with their King of the Track promotion. Ooh. Ooh. Here's how to get in.

Okay, head to DraftKings Horse app, opt in and bet $5 or more on a single horse to win the Kentucky Derby. Citizen Bull. Citizen Bull. You heard it here. If your pick crosses the finish line first, you'll win a share of a $1 million prize pool in addition to your wagers winnings. The award is issued via click to claim. So saddle up this race season, download DK Horse. That stands for DraftKings, but it looks like it's DK Horse. Use promo code new heights and

Get in on the derby excitement gambling problem called 1-800 gambler 18 and over 21 and over in certain states to open owner access an advanced deposit wagering account and resident of state where DK horse is available Eligibility restrictions apply void were prohibited opt in and place a $5 plus straight win bet on the Derby. First eligible bet only must win to share $1 million cash reward via click to claim expires in 30 days ends May 3rd. See terms at dkhorse.com slash bet slash offers slash details. This is fucking badass, dude. It's awesome, man. It's so it's more fun now like you can do stuff weird because like stuff like this hat like people will listen to people, people care about it's really fun to like talk to somebody, you know, guys I admire and like, and I'm like, this is great.

It's so much more interesting. And no wonder why that's the shit that people actually want to see instead of the kind of same recycle bullshit that, you know, just gets old. I hear you man. Thanks for having me. I appreciate you guys.

Okay. We honor man. This is incredible. We are chopping at the bit brother. Before we get started, I just gotta let you know, this is not a professional deal here. We're just gonna kick it. We're just gonna fucking kick it.

Good, man. Yeah, I'm believing. That's great. I love it. Jason, do the honors, my brother. Our guest today is writer, director, actor, producer from Berkeley, California. He's got three times Golden Globes, two time BAFTAs, two time SAG awards, and is a two

time Academy Award winner. You know him from Good Will Hunting, Armageddon, Argo, Gone Girl, The Town, Justice League, even Dunkin Donuts, Super Bowl commercials. That's right. And now, the accountant two. That's right. 92 accountant to that's right. Please welcome Mr. Ben Affleck. Of course, man. It's good to be here, man. It's really good to be here. The first accountant, fucking amazing. Absolutely amazing.

Jason, Jason, you can go ahead and tell them about about how you're connected in that world and everything. But I was blown away by the by the messages sent by just how cool everything came together and you just felt how it ended that you had to do another one. Right? It was so bad. First Yeah, I wanted to. First of all, thank you very much. I really liked the first one and it kind of like it did well and then it like built up.

It kind of came out right as streaming started growing and then over time like, you know, more and more people watching stuff and so I was really excited to do another one. I love the new version. I think it's even better than the first movie and I appreciate it. It's a lot of fucking a lot of fun and it's good to be here to do another one. I love the new version. I think it's even better than the first movie. And I appreciate it. That's a lot of fucking lot of fun. And it's good to be here to talk about. Well, I know you've been told this before from the first one. And the second one is very, very similar. You do such a great job of portraying somebody on the spectrum. You can tell that you guys put so much time and effort into doing that properly. showcasing tools for how people that are on

the spectrum deal with too much stimulus going on. What are different traits? How do they communicate? What is the social interaction like? The dating scene from this second movie right off the gate. Oh my gosh. But my wife works with kids on the spectrum. She was in instructional aid for a long time. We do a lot of stuff in the autism community. So I'd be remiss if I did not say how awesome you do at how much you guys have nailed it in both films. So well done.

Thank you very much, man. That's obviously the most important thing. It's like, look, this movie is fun. It's tense, it's serious, it's funny. But obviously it kind of starts with like, when they're taking a role on like this and you're going to kind of talk about like people about whom in particular there's been some like misunderstandings or judgments or whatever, like the goal is to for authenticity and respect and empathy and understanding.

And I did a lot of research for the first one and I got really lucky in my life in the years between because I got to develop some very close relationships with people very much like my character. And that's where I got like, these people that enriched my life and I just got to know. And then I was like, there's so much joy and humor and wry humor and wisdom and so much beauty in these folks. And it's like, is it great? I really felt like that was the most important thing to bring that humanity up because yeah,

sometimes if you have a more like neutral effect, people might just assume, okay, well, they're very serious or there's not as much going on or they have the same feelings. And I have not found that at all to be true. It's just a slightly different way of seeing the world and approaching it.

And I really wanted to bring that to this role both because I thought, you know, it hadn't really been done in that way. And because I just came to love, you know, in effect this character to the people that I knew. So it's like, by the time I got into this one, I was like, no, no, no, I really understand this guy. I kind of guessed and fooled around in research before and now I have it and I wanted people to feel it, you know,

and so thank you very much. And it means the world to me. It's a very interesting experience because like like you're talking about like, you know, dealing with social cues like in some ways it's just a slightly more elevated version of what we all kind of experienced but hide more. Like playing with people's things about people in spectrum is like, they're honest with you. They will shoot you straight. We all talk about how we want honesty. Truth is people want it if it's what they want to hear. You know what I mean?

Somebody tells you the truth, but they don't really want the truth truth. You know what I'm saying? There's something wonderful about somebody who will, I'm just gonna tell you the truth about it. So don't ask something that you don't want an honest answer to. Exactly, exactly.

Oh yeah. He was, it was, and Rukava, that's like, we all kind of find like, look, you know, the whole situation trying to date somebody and figure out like meet people, flirt with them, the kind of like cues and indications that people get like, I think a lot of people have a little bit of difficulty trying to figure that out.

If I say the right thing, they come off stupid. This is just a more kind of in plain sight version of that. The most beautiful about it is like the vulnerability. Guy's like trying to have a connection with his brother. Really that's the heart of it. He loves his brother, but drives him fucking crazy, you know? And so it's about how do we figure that out, you know? And same with the relationships, yeah.

Yeah, and it's awesome seeing that side of it with like the social interaction and things where a lot of times people in the spectrum kind of struggle with, but then you also see the strengths of the character and obviously the ability to like process numbers and like make connections that nobody else is gonna be able to do. So it's just so well done.

Have you ever embodied a character as much as this? I mean, you've I mean, not really. It's been a lot of care. You've gathered so many. I mean, you've had you've had so many unbelievable movies, but hearing you talk about this, it sounds like you really like it was almost like a passion project this second time around. It was it was a very different thing the second time around because just because

of my life and what I and the love I had developed and I was like so I was like dying to get going you know I was like I remember the director like sat down with me and he was like so I'm talking I was like no no this is what this scene's about no this is how he's feeling no he's not mad about that you know and I just started to know kind of much more deeply about the guy and that's like look as a as an actor you try to do as much research as you can, but you just, it's like cheating almost when you have real experience with something.

You just bring a whole other level of stuff to it. And that's what happened with this movie. And it was fun. And also, honestly, John Bernthal is so genius. The guy, I love this guy. He's a good man. He's a great actor. He's like good father.

He's just, he's a guy that I, he became a very close friend of my lovely guy and getting to play the scenes with him. I mean, that's analogous to like, you know, another great player on the team. We have a super high level. It just changes everything where he already knows where I'm going to be. He already can see what I'm doing. He's there. And you know what I mean? It just makes you so much better. That was a joy every day. Well, and is there, it feels like a lot of the movies you're in, there's this incorporation

of brotherhood. Obviously, that's a literal brother in this movie. But I mean, good will hunting, like, like the town, like there's like this, this idea of friendship and brotherhood, that's something that encompasses so well in a lot of the films you do. But Berntal is phenomenal in this one as well. Yeah, he is. He's great. And and yeah, that's a theme that's like really meaningful to me. And certainly like, you know, when I was young and like a lot of young guys before you, you get older and have other kinds of responsibilities, get married, that kind of thing. Like you're oftentimes your male friends are your whole world,

like your guys, your crew, that's a big deal. And it really means a lot to, particularly to men and to how we kind of grow into real men and those guys that were around shape and dictate that. I mean, I assume on a football team, it's even more kind of profound. And so for me, it was like, I've always been interested in these like

very close male friendships and how they can be fucking, they can define us, how they can be hard when it becomes like a conflict or when part of what's going on with another guy, like, you know, is a problem. But like for a lot of us, you know, particularly if you, whether or not you had like a dad who was as present around like that, the period of time where that's the center of your life and you're socializing yourself in that way and so that was a big frame of reference for me and I think there's a lot, there's like vulnerability in it and there's strength and it's a big way that oftentimes I think you know, kind of men learn to grow into who they're going to be and so it's a

theme that I keep on coming back to. It's also very, you know, very powerful. It's like, especially when you have like a group of guys like that, and like when somebody was going to tell you the truth or break the way that things have been going and go like, no, this is fucked up. Like that can be, especially for men, those kinds of relationships, like he's hugely powerful moment. This is kind of the things that we remember. And oftentimes that like define us in my experience. You ain't lying, man. There's been so many iconic, I don't know where you want to go. I hate listing lines to guys who literally did this, but the town, when you go in there, you're like, I'm not telling you where or what we're going for, why we're going there. I just need you to know.

It's like, deal, we're going, we're going right now. It's just like every guy that has any close friends can relate to that story where it's like, dude, I got my boys back no matter what is the case. You don't need to explain it. You don't need to tell me. Yeah. It's like we're gonna do something really hard.

It's gonna be huge. It's gonna be like you don't know what it is and I need your help. That's all it's like. Okay, who's car are we gonna take? It's like that's the only, you know. And I was trying to find, I remember I shot to that movie, I was like,

I need really get a moment where we understand what kind of friendship he has with this guy so that when, you know, when it starts to like get a lot of attention applied to it, you understand how strong it is. Cause it's an internal thing, the bond we feel, right? The connection. And that was like, I was like, he's got to, you know,

I wanted something kind of you know extreme for that so you go like oh these guys will follow each other anywhere yeah you know absolutely you're dealing with something really powerful like this the most important relationship in both of their lives yep and that was you know I kind of lucked into that line it was because kind of funny you know and extremely so damn good it does represent I think a lot of you know you see it you see it in sports you, a lot of, you know, you see it, you see it in sports, you see it in the military, you see, like you see it represented in some way, like, hey, I'll go fight and die. Like I remember I did a training thing for a movie with the army for two weeks, which probably was the hardest experience of my life. Two weeks is a long time training, dude.

If I wasn't like so embarrassed about this boot camp, I would have quit for sure. I'd be like, I'm the hero of the Fox. You're ringing the bell. It's local. It's totally, it was no joke, but I learned a lot of respect for it. And I remember the guys were like, one of the things these guys would say is like,

you don't die for a flag. You don't die for an idea. You don't die for your friend. You're a guy next to you. And that really stayed with me. And like, oh yeah, I get that. I get that that's get that. That's how these bonds get shaped and how you get these like teams and units to function this

way. You know, it's very powerful. We have one last question for you before we move on. Could you actually file your own taxes? Do you file your own taxes? Just go into a glass room and just start writing on the walls? I mean, yeah, I could file them. I might get arrested for too much. I can do that. I'm tempted to do that. I write a lot of things down. It's not the right answer. Oh, God. So good, man. Check out Accountant 2 in theaters

right now, ladies and and gentlemen 92 percenters. My dog Ben Affleck fucking killed it. We gotta get into this sports fandom though man. Ben does the chair you're sitting in kind of lock so it doesn't swivel? Oh you don't want me doing this type of thing? You're moving kind of in and out of frame. Oh because it's a third, a third, a third. Let me just try to fucking sit still.

You know what I mean? I can probably manage that shit. Instead of locking me in the chair. You know what I mean? I can probably manage that shit. You know what I mean? Instead of like locking me in the chair, you know what I mean? Hopefully I can manage that. I'll try to help you out. Oh my gosh.

If that's how you handle most of your guests, like can you tie him down? Yeah. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. This is, this says a lot about what's going on. You strap this fucking guy in the chair or nothing. It's like you lock it in.

Oh man. All right. Let's get to some sports fan, man. Boston's sports fan for life, I'm assuming, man. And it's all the sports up there, man. You got baseball, basketball, football, hockey, all of them. Boston's been spectacular, especially through the 90s, 2000s.

And right now this is a sports podcast. So let's jump into some NFL draft will happen by the time this airs. Do you have like a favorite in this draft? Are you that in tuned with like the guys coming out? Where I'm like, I can tell a fucking guy's combine numbers and shit. You know what I mean? I just like, who looks like I'm not that into, especially kind of like when Tom left New England and that whole thing, I was like, I had to step back from, I was kind of like,

I stopped, the shit started making sense to me and I kind of didn't know who, but kind of, but to start watching NFL, like more casually, I used to be more into like, who are we gonna get? Who's the draft pick? And now I kind of find myself a little conflicted. So I can't give you certainly any, any great detail on the draft. Although I bet you guys can't.

I'm curious to know, like, do you think there's a there's like more insight that you have in terms of like upcoming players? Like, do you think there really is a skill and an expertise to be like seeing how a guy will develop or is there anybody who's looking at the same fucking numbers, stat sheets, combine, you know, numbers and that kind of thing. There's there's definitely a process and some guys hit it out like they like hit home runs during the interview process. Like if you can't show the teams that you're going to be like a great teammate, a great

professional, like you're just kind of like a guy likes to just play football. Like, but if you can go in there and show that you're going to be professional you're going to have a like a routine you're going to be you know how important is that really like i know you they said that shit all the time he's a good clubhouse guy that stuff but like have you seen it make a real difference and doesn't make a difference to somebody who's looking at player go this guy's for real you know his commitment all that stuff i think the guys that we brought in in kansas city you know have been those guys the guys that we brought in in Kansas city, you know, have been those guys, the guys that have had immediate success and found a way to get a second

contract here, those are the guys that they want. It's the build the build. I've been here from the jump, uh, like 13 years ago before coach Reed even got here, they didn't have that kind of chemistry and kind of like culture in the building. It kind of took like five or six years for them to bring in the guys they wanted that had that professionalism and that like enjoyment in the building,

coming into work every single day. And once we finally got that, it just, it's changed the trajectory of the program. And winning helps that too. The more success you have and the more wins, the more people genuinely buy in. I mean, that's one of the things that Bill and Tom did so well for so long in New England.

Nobody's gonna come in there questioning how stuff's done when you got that type of success. So it affords you a great culture, even with guys that might not. Maybe if they were in another situation, they wouldn't be the same type of guy. But I think for me, I've started to look at guys coming out more

because now that I'm done, I try to help out or that's my way to kind of stay involved. I never looked at a lot of college guys. It's hard, man. It's hard to evaluate and see guys and tell which guys are going to be the ones that pan out. As a player, you watch it and you can't help but think of guys that they remind you of and the way they move and the times and

the measurables, those are all parameters that you take into account. If there's a center with less than 32-inch arms, that's a red flag. If there's a tackle with less than 34-inch arms, there's a certain minimum amount that you want. But then after that, I like watching the tape and seeing how does the guy bend? What is his quickness? What are his moves? How does the offensive lineman use his hands? And then you're trying to think of like, what is coachable and correctable? There's some guys that you watch, you can almost tell that they're smart players by the angles that they take.

Like, oh, this guy gets football. He knows where the ball's going and he's advanced. And other guys are just, they look like they're running in the middle of the field. Like, dude, this guy gets football. He knows where the ball's going. And he's advanced and other guys are just, they look like they're running in the middle of the field. Like, dude, do you have any idea like what's happening right now? Like you're just, it's really interesting to hear you guys talk about it because it actually does remind me because I thought it was completely different. And it reminds me a lot of, of, of directing movies actually, which seems weird maybe, but like, like when you said, eh, yeah, establishing some success goes a long way towards buy and wear. Like it was more difficult for me to convince people like,

hey, come on down this road early on. I know what I'm doing. Cause I can shoot you guys with kind of like, fuck you know what I mean? You know what I mean? Like I don't know what you mean. And you might be leading me down the wrong road, you know what I mean?

And kind of get us all fucked up. And I kind of like, I noticed that as a movie come out, you know, and kind of get us all fucked up. And I kind of like I noticed that as you come out, people like it and stuff. It was people came to me with more openness, you know, I don't know if Randy Moss would show up with the same openness that he showed up. Yeah, but he started to get towards that. And the other thing is that that thing of like, I really do believe that there's a kind of a flow state with accurate sports, all that stuff. And a part of

it is that thing of like, am I comfortable? Am I at ease? Do I feel like I can kind of do my thing? It kind of basically that kind of buy-in that you talked about, you know, in Kansas City about creating a culture. Yeah. I do think that that makes a huge difference. And sometimes I see people, I mean, I'm crazy if I'll say like, you got to have not just a great cameraman, like great Dolly, you gotta have an environment where all the people there are kind of filmmakers and they understand what's important

and everybody feels like they share a culture of valuing like certain things about what we're trying to do. And I guess it's interesting because I often thought those things were kind of cliches that guys said when they had to talk to the media or whatever. But to hear it articulated by the two professional guys who've done it actually made a lot more sense. I'm like, oh, this is the same thing.

Like you want people to share certain values, unrecognized what's important here, how we do this here, you know? I get that. And I I wonder about like with with football or, you know, even other sports. It seems to me that part of the trick is figuring out who's going to keep growing and develop. Who's gonna stay kind of static, you know what I mean? I've never noticed any particular attributes

that is it people who can tolerate, like can't tolerate failure, but can get back up when they fail and go to get after it again. Is resilience the principle thing? Is it just like some people are lucky and they just keep getting better? Like, have you found any common traits? I feel like you just, I think a lot of that is dealt with when you have great culture,

great coaches in hand, because then you got somebody that they respect, the person that needs to like grow as a player, they have somebody that they respect that is challenging them. Like a guy like me, I had Coach Reed since the beginning of my career sitting there just kind of hit me on the head telling me, don't do this, don't do this, keep doing that, keep doing that. And you've you slowly start to like find your own professionalism inside of the culture, right? And then now you know how to add to that culture.

And you know, and you know how to like build that culture even, even more. Once you start to figure out, you know, the rights and the wrongs and what you should and shouldn't be doing. But at the same time, Coach Reed has also grown a lot since since I've been there in terms of letting the players kind of be more of themselves off the field. He would have never let me fucking do this podcast at the beginning of my career. Yeah afford that.

Yeah, no, how about no? How about focus on football? But yeah, but it's definitely I feel like, I feel like a lot of that is you have to have that drive and that love for the game to want to keep getting better. And that goes along with the guys that are coming into the building or guys in the draft. You got to, you got to see it on the field, you got to see them love to in the draft, you gotta see it on the field. You gotta see them love to compete and then you have to see them love to work on their craft throughout. And that's kind of where it comes more of like juggling matches.

Like you only know that word of mouth. You don't really know what they're doing behind the scenes. How much of a hardcore fucking like coach, do you respond to? Because I like like I'm coached me up man. You say that, like do you want a guy who's like right in your face and be like what the fuck is wrong with you? Don't you know or do you want somebody that's giving you that like hey you know you can

get better here. Like where do you think that sweet spot is for you? I can respond to either one of those. I think coaches should be generally who their personalities are. Like if you're a fired up dude and you kind of motherfuck and that's kind of how you do it. And I can respond great to that. If you're very reserved, but you're honest and articulate and you communicate really well, I can respond well to that. The big thing is I want to be coached. I want to be told when I'm doing things, what can I do to get better? And I think to your point

of how do some guys improve, how do some guys master potential? Like Kobe Bryant came and talked to the Eagles one time. And one of the things he said was like, one of his notes to all the young guys was be curious, keep asking questions, keep trying to get better. Like, there's some guys that come in with just like this insatiable appetite to become better, even though they might have downturns and they might have to like have that resiliency. And like we've all dealt with that in our careers and it sucks in the moment, but you realize at the end, it makes you so much better because you learn from it and you learn like, dude, why was I using my hands that way? If

I just would have done this this way, like, and now I'm doing it and it's leading to more success. And of course, it needs to be great coaching and potential there to begin with. But that trait of like, just this, this insatiable desire to like, be the best version of a football player you can be is like the biggest thing to me. And that's hard. Yeah, it's hard to pick of guys coming out, like, who knows, those are those intangibles where it's like, you kind of lean on coaches

that you know, that know them. Like there's, you talk to people in the universities that they're at, like, hey, I know this coach there and I know he will be honest with me about this guy's temperament, but that's a tough one to gauge. That's a hard thing too, cause you're calling somebody up, they're in the spot where like what they're gonna tell you

is gonna dictate somebody's future. It's like, you know, if somebody calls you about a job recommendation for somebody, even if you're like, I don't know if he's, but it feels bad to say that. And like what I used to do is like, say good things about everybody, because I felt bad.

And then I have people come back to me, man, you told me this guy was, I know, I know. Oh shit, not doing you a service, you know what I mean? So you had like I had to learn that that lesson. One of the things I see like, you know, a lot of work is the people who I really respect the most, who I think are the best, have this combination of wanting to be great, which is a sense of like, yeah,

I can be great, but also a certain humility that's like, I gotta keep looking at my mistakes. You're not willing to look at your game and see what you can do better. Self-eval, baby. I have said this so much. Every great player that I know is the right amount of insecure.

Like they aren't happy with like, it's not like they're not happy with either, but they're like, I don't like, I need to improve this. I don't like me, this version of me here. I don't know if I've ever watched a game where I'm just like, nice, I'm satisfied. I've always watched a game like, you fucking idiot. Yeah, why didn't I just do this better?

You fucking suck. That's the biggest thing is like, there's people who are cool with good enough and people who didn't even make the choice. I'm like, it just drives me crazy. People are like, oh, we're good. I'm like, it's not good. You know what I mean?

It just makes me feel, no. And then when you get next to somebody else who also has that kind of demand, and that maybe is coach or it's another person that you're working with, you kind of feel like, okay, this person is gonna go on this ride with me. And I do think it's just some person that some people are like like I checked the box,

I did what I had to do. And there's a kind of, like in the great athletes that I've had a chance opportunity to know, like sometimes I feel like it's a little bit of a curse because they know they still don't feel happy. Like they're always guys who feel like whatever it is isn't enough.

And they kind of like, they don't seem like the most comfortable, happy people to me. So like, I love the idea of being great. And I admire I wish I was like this guy. What are you talking about? You're talking about. Come on. I wish I could do that.

That looks awesome, right? I was like anybody who watches sports, that's like, it'd be awesome if I could do that. You know what I mean? Like that's at the root of it. You've done something, you know how hard it is. You see guys doing at that level of excellence, you really appreciate it. And for me, that's the thrill of it. Why you wanna see the top level performance,

why people obsess with winning, because it represents who the very best are. And I think that goes to the root of our evolutionary nature. Like, I'm gonna go hunt for your food. You wanna get, you're like, you're gonna find the best hunter, who the very best are. And I think that goes to the root of our evolutionary nature. I'm gonna go hunt for your food. You're gonna find the best hunter, because that's survival.

You wanna be next to that person. Your tribe is your village. It's tied to whether you're gonna live or die. Yeah, and the great ones, they're unhappy with where they're at, or a little bit insecure with where they're at, but they also have the confidence that they can achieve it. You know what I mean?

Like there's this like level of like, if you think you suck, but you don't think you have the confidence to get there, you're never gonna make it. And if you think you're great, but you don't really know where you're at, you're gonna get your ass kicked eventually. You can show up for that.

So, yeah, so, but like I'm a genius, I'm nothing to lie about. Yeah, yeah. Right, like, you're gonna get an eyelid. Yes. But also, you're so good at stuff, I said, okay, it's like, I don't know if you guys drive a genius. I'm not in the right. You're like, yes. But you just don't go. I said, OK, it's like I don't know if you guys drive a motorcycle. When I was learning, I was in this like motorcycle school. They taught me this thing about you.

You sit back on the hardly or what, dude? Most of the race bikes, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. And it teach you like as you're in a turn, you have to look through the turn. In other words, you can't look at what's in front of you. You have to look where you're where you're going to go. And if you actually the way guys get into accidents a lot of times, as they get into a turn, it's deeper than they thought.

You get scared. You're going to hit the wall. So you look at the wall and then you do it. So to have that confidence to like look all the way through, even when you get halfway there and you're like, they're like, the bike can do more than you think it can trust it and look all the way through, even when you get halfway there and you're like, they're like, the bike can do more than you think it can trust it and look all the way through it. There's always that moment.

Like you say, I'm like, I believe I can get there even if it's really hard. You know what I mean? Fuck, absolutely. That is, I think, a key part of it. And you probably experienced or developed that belief because you have to have done it a few times. Oh, I can get better. Oh, I can. And maybe that's rooted in talent or whatever,

but there's definitely that those, I find it fascinating those kind of intangibles. And I think there's, you know, you got to ask the guys who are great themselves because I think those are the people who really understand. I was gonna say, speaking of the great ones, getting back to some of this Boston fandom, baby, the Celtics are, you know, defending their title.

Obviously Boston sports everywhere is amazing. It has been amazing. Who's your favorite athlete? Boston athlete of all time, of all time, of all time. It's hard, man. Like, you know, Brady is definitely it has to be. He'd have to be. I don't know how you do a list that he's not at the top of.

But yeah, also, when I was younger, you know, when I was a kid, like, that's when you're like, I mean, I was live or die. Oh, yeah. Hell, yeah. You know, crying if they lost the game. And that was like Larry. Larry Legend. Larry. My son's always like, Larry, you're a suck. What are you talking about? Oh, yeah. Put the lights on.

Put the lights on. Listen, I'm with it. Put the highlights on. Listen, I'm with it. Turning on some film back in like all these, hey, these old guys are looking at what the new basketball looks like. I'm like, I don't know what some of them could play. Larry could play.

Larry could easily have made the transition into today's basketball. For Boston, that was such a big deal because they were, it's like this basically like a small town with a kind of a small town mindset. And for the Celtics to be and that you know, going back obviously like Bill Russell days and all that, like the Celtics were the Boston's original entrance into like the national conversation. You know what I mean? The Red Sox always lost. The Patriots were fucking terrible. My father like basically was a football book. He had

a bar. He used to come up. My first VCR washing machine, he was like, you know, what's going on in the NFL? And we went to bed on New England. I was like, I don't know if they blacked the games out on TV. Yeah, because they get people to go to the stadium. Yeah. They were like, you can't watch on TV if you don't go down there.

So you couldn't even watch the games. It was that like it was a grind of an era for football, you know. But it was but but so that's the era that I really, you know, with all these like childhood sports, memories were kind of formed. And I love those Celtics, but I also love that, like, you know, that that Celtics team that came out won the championship out here. And obviously Tatum's team incredible. You know, well, Red Sox, oh, for that was a big, big this team that came out won the championship out here. And obviously Tatum and his team. Incredible.

You know, Red Sox, oh, for that was a big, big because they had won, you know what I mean? And that's a huge especially after oh, three. They got they got they lost in New York and the playoffs. And it's humiliating. And and that was a great team. And that was right at the time where I was still young. And I was like going out.

I knew some of those guys, you know, hung out with them a little bit. Yeah, I experienced a bit like, oh, this is what's really going on. Big poppies. You should do it. Big Uke, Cincinnati Bearcat, baby. There you go. Uklis. Yeah, Kevin Uklis. Yeah, yeah. All of them. They were great guys.

And so it was like, oh, I know some of these guys, you know, was always at a distance and it's a great sports down I mean it's probably tough to play because they'll you know they turn on you in a minute there's always somebody you know complaining about a game they lost but I feel like the guys that really want to play and win. I like OK, you know hold me to that standard us a standard I myself to you know at least that's what I tell myself.

Boston do they live and die by the Celtics? What's their biggest fandom of all the major sports? If you get one championship for one organization, but the next three don't win for a decade, which one are you going? Damn, that's a good one. Or which one would make Boston the happiest? That's tough. I mean, it's different. It's interesting because there are fans are first of all, since the Patriots became so

successful, they became like more than what like Dallas was in the 90s, like, oh, they win and they are killing teams. It was like we got a little spoiled because the thing that I thought built character about New England was that like it felt like they always lost. You know what I mean? So if you were a fan, you were a real fan. Absolutely. They'd have these heartbreaking losses. And you had like a thing growing up a brown fan, real scrappy fucking teams like Bobby or hell, you know, you're a baby. And it was like, you know, hockey with no helmets and just fought half the game,

like slap shot. Missing other teams. Exactly. The fucking best. And so there's different parts of the city in the state and stuff that that kind of go towards different that like like hockey fans are kind of a certain sort of group. And then football is kind of I mean, the Red Sox were the original one. But I definitely what's happened now, I think, in the last in my lifetime is that better for worse.

I mean, I think this is true. I don't want to like, you know, but baseball is not the national pastime anymore. It's a NFL like that has displaced it right now. I mean, you could don't have to look any further than the football team, like what a team sell for, what are the TV, the TV rights, the NFL, and everything. If you were a television network and you don't have the NFL,

you don't even really have a TV. You're missing out. Because you have no reason to watch, you know, like appointments, fucking television. That's why they're spending all this money on. And, you know, the college college basketball, football contracts and stuff. Like sports have become more important in a way. And I think football, the NFL is, I think, without question, like America's sport and it's and that is huge, too.

It is really like NBA. We were trying to tell LeBron this during the Christmas games. We were like the NFL. They took that shit over. Yeah. You know why? Because they have 82 games. That's a big thing.

That's the other thing. It's like it become baseball 162 games. It was the first time we had played on Christmas. Everybody was kind of excited to watch the NFL on Christmas No, but I think you're right. I mean the NBA NHL Major League Baseball they all came up when the The way to make money was having more games because you increased ticket sales and now all the money is who's tuning in and if you want

people to tune in, you can sell no tickets to NFL that makes, you know, it's not that meaningful because now baseball teams, you talk about like a lot of these baseball teams in local markets, even like Kansas City, you know, their rights that they're selling their games to the television networks has shrunk to like pretty surprisingly low numbers. So they're making all their money at the gate. That's it. That's that. I think, you know, it's part of it's because the fan base has grown older

for baseball and football and basketball, you know, really attract and new and younger fans. And I think they displaced it. And I think New England is no different. I think the Patriots probably became certainly with, you know, Tom and Bill. And that's they were the dominant sports. And the Red Sox right there because they won the World Series and four or 7 and stuff.

But I don't know. I think basketball, I think basketball is probably like a very close second. Did all my 92 percenters get their hands on cotton candy yet? Accelerators just doesn't miss. Every single flavor is arguably my favorite. And it's a good problem to have because they all get me accelerated. And whether it's in season, out of season, doesn't matter. You can always find me

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Plus, you get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash new heights. Plus you get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash new heights to get 50% off. That's thefarmersdog.com slash new heights. All right. Well, we're going to get to this, we got to ask section we're going to do here. We just kind of rapid fire questions at you. You are not, I mean, you can, you don't have to answer. You can tell us to fuck off. We kind of appreciate it. You famously refused to wear a Yankees hat in the movie Gone Girl. Is this still something that you refuse to do on screen? Like, will you...

What is it gonna take to get you in it? I would not be interested in doing that. Like, I don't have to do that. It's okay. You know what I mean? I love it. And also, to be fair, I was explaining to David, like, it's gonna become, like like he's a big football fan.

He's not as tuned into baseball, right? He's obsessed with football and Madden and like the dude's the greatest Madden player, David Fincher, I've ever seen, which is fucking weird to me. But I was like, OK, I guess he's created everything. He he I was like, it's going to be a distraction that you don't want. Like a side story where Yankees have trust me. And he was he kind of of, I think he got, he was kind of fucked with me.

I don't know. That is fucking hilarious. Well, all right. Well, if you were to wear maybe a Chiefs or Eagles hat, which one would you wear? Oh, don't put me in the spot like that. I will say, I have to say, because Billy Goldberg upstairs is,

who is my editor that I, along with Chris Ross, that I've worked with my whole career and is probably responsible for a large part of my career is the biggest whole Wolfia fan. Yeah, baby. You. Does not have to be a Philly football game. I have to say Philly has the at least Boston like to me, Philly has like the intense fucking tradition where I'm like, I'm like Bradley Cooper's in front of mine. Loves the Philly. like, I'd have to

go with the go birds go birds, baby. Also, the Philly fans will kick your ass if you don't wear it. You know what I mean? In Kansas City, they're like, that's cool. You know what I mean? You got to kind of stick together. They're way out there in the middle of the country like you want to see some intensity. polite and Midwestern and shit. That'd be nice to you.

I feel like this is fucking chain stomp you. We heard that you once got to run routes with Tom Brady. All right. What was it like? What was that like? How many completions did we get? What were you running? What kind of routes were you running? I won't lie to you. I don't know if they have a name. I'm not sure I can hear you. I'm sure I disgraced every receiver that's ever run a route.

But to this day, aside from the birth of my children, that was the greatest day. That's all I got. I was like, dude, are you, he was like, I need someone to play catch with. Happened to be on vacation at the same place with him. And he was like, you want to come down? And I was like, dude, are you? He's like, I need someone to play catch with. Happened to be on vacation at the same place with him. And he was like, you want to come down? And I was like, oh, this was so this was legit.

This was as legit as it gets. That's amazing. You were helping Tom get ready for the season. I was like, I don't know how much I was helping him. I think he was like, he was like, I'm going to fucking blow this dude's. And we literally got down there. And first he's like, you know, I'm gonna, he's like,

okay, go out here, turn around, spin around and I'm like, Lauren, run as fast as I can, turn around. I feel so, look at him, look, he's waiting 45 minutes, you know, fucking guns the ball. I'm like, I caught it because I was afraid of breaking my nose more than anything else. And then after a few of those, he's like, all right, I'll put some hair on. I was like, no, no, no, it's already. It's already playing fast. Yeah. That was what I was about to ask you. I was about to ask you, did he actually spin it? Like he ripped you a couple? No, you know, I was that like, in a way you catch it as self defense. I didn't even think I was you

know, and I found myself with the football just like, yes, reflexes. But the greatest moment of that experience was he was like, after we played, he had me running around, I'm sure, you know, he's throwing me the ball and it was amazing, right? It was like a, like I felt like a 10 year old kid. He's like, okay, come here.

And I get to him and he's like, it's the Super Bowl, fourth quarter, we have 23 seconds. It's fourth and 18 hours. I love this. Tom knows what he's doing, man. I was like, huh? He's like, just run. Dude, this is why he's the best. This is why he's the best. This is his mindset, dude. He was amazing, dude. He goes, and just run straight. Don't turn around. And I was like, he's like, I'm going to get you the ball in the end zone. I was like, don't turn around. And I was like, he's like, I'm gonna get you the ball in the end zone. I was like, don't turn around.

He was like, don't look back. So I am like, and I believe that like, he told me, I was like, I'm in the Super Bowl now. You know what he wants, so he's like, look, look, calls it out, you know, like, he was, and I start running, I don't look back. I'm sure to him, it seemed like this. He's like, I've never seen somebody

run in slow motion before. You know, like to me, I've never seen somebody running slow motion. I'm like wondering when's this ball gonna show up? And I look, I just feel like right out in front of me. And it was a little far for me. I think he was like, he probably adjusted back. Reach out and I have to go all the extend. I fucking catch. Turn around like I won. It was incredible.

I called everybody I knew for two days. I was on the. I think they thought I was lying to him. So they got. But it was like the nicest thing anyone's ever done for me. And I lived a full life of dreams, right. And that whatever was our playing catch. You're a real life. You're a real life sandlot. But you were small.

You can't even. Just put that glove on. What? It's so good. All right. I'm going to get it to you in the end zone. I'm so good. All right. I'm going to get it to you in the end zone. I mean, and it's like when you look at it, it felt like this is exactly what he looks like when it really is the Super Bowl.

You know what I mean? Like, and he's one of those guys going back to that thing. I think I've often wondered because he seems so relaxed, like oddly relaxed. I've often wondered if that's part of it. Like just not, you know, when everyone else has that anxiety, cause it's, you know, whatever 20 seconds to go in the fourth quarter,

if you can have that like calm and that awareness, I think it's a huge, huge advantage. There's a story, I don't know if it's true, about Joe Montana, that the Super Bowl through the cash, the white Clark, the play before that, he got into the huddle and he was looking into the stands and the team came back and they were like,

what, he goes, hey, look over there. Is that John Candy? No. John Candy. The last time. The Super Bowl. And they just like turned back around, but he was like looking over and be like,

oh shit, that's John Candy. All right, fuck it, let's go. Like, you know what I mean? Like he was just casual and I shit, that's John Katie. All right, fuck it, let's go. Like, you know what I mean? Like, he was just casual, and I feel like that always made sense. If you've ever met Joe Montana, that's a smooth son of a buck right there. He's a cool cat, man.

He's a laid back dude. I believe it. Are you sick and tired of having to look at Matt Damon's abs? I mean, damn, I just did it once in the premiere. Every interviewer, like, they were giving me something, like they found the secret of life. Like whips out an 8x10 of Matt with his ab. I was like this dude is out there. One time he got in shape.

And the whole world was like, you worked out one time. He's out there flexing. It's not so awful. But you know, it looks good. It ain't easy. If you touch 50, you boys will see. I hear you, man. He's calling everybody.

Tell him where he's going. Tell him where he's going. Tell him where he's going. Tell him where he's going. Tell him where he's good, it ain't easy. You touch 50, you boys will see. I hear you, man. He's calling everybody, tell him where he's going. I'm gonna be on this beach this time. He's like, Nate, I'm about to have a Big Mac. So good.

Dude, you guys lived together in Boston your first year, or growing up, I should say. I say first year, but growing. Yep, we were friends in the same box. We lived together in LA. We were, or growing up, I should say. I say first year, but growing. Yep, we were friends in the same block. We lived together in LA. We were friends since we were little kids, yeah. Dude, that's so fucking cool. Me and Jason were living together at Cincinnati,

and obviously we grew up together. I know what it's like to hang out with your homies and be in the same houses. How fucking cool, were you guys just fucking throwing cool ass ideas back and forth to each other? Like. I don't know how cool they were, you know.

I don't know. We were just like fucking dumb enough to think it would work out for us. You know, that's that kind of like belief that like, yeah, that's part of the gift of being young is you don't really see that like this could end bad. You know, no one hides. We have like, we might not work.

We always kind of had a certain like, hey, we go out there. I don't know. It's a combination of not knowing anyone who had done it or it seemed very far away and also going like, yeah, fuck it. We're going to move out to LA and this, we're going to try this thing and we're going to go after it. But I was, I'm curious because for me, I found that I see a lot of other people who've had success and, you know, the kind of sort of light turns on you and all of a sudden it's a very

different experience day to day and people act different and shit is weird, especially like, you know, when people, that first, the beginning of that transition, and I really credit, you know, my ability to kind of stay sane to, to having like my best friend who was doing it too and being able to like this is fucking bananas or what? Man, like this is crazy. So what are you talking about? Like, why do you act like that or whatever it is? You know, because other people want to kiss your ass or whatever it is.

I wonder if you have the same thing, you guys, like, you know, NFL guys. And you're like, but, you know, you're not the only one in your town that you know, that that's that one kid who becomes a big star and everyone, you know, like you had each other. Yeah, I was lucky I just got to follow this guy's footsteps. I was just doing whatever the fuck he did. I was benefiting from the guy already paving the way for me. But it was definitely cool once we got to the league how we could bounce things off of each other, especially because we were in two different cities, two different buildings. And it's like, I don't know. We also had Coach Reed,

he got drafted by Coach Reed in Philly than I did in Kansas City. So it was really me just like confirming that what I was doing was the right thing to do to Jason. Jason was kind of just figuring it out as he went. Did you think that because he did it made it easier for you? Because you were like, oh, my brother can do it. 1000 percent.

Jason came in and was like one of the most professional guys in Philly. I've heard the stories through everybody in that building, because half of them came to Kansas City and they were like, man, if you just lock in and do what your brother did, you'll be just fine. I think that's a big deal. Oh, no. Are you kidding me? Guys are fucking. But I just got to follow his footsteps. Stop. All right. But I really do think you're onto something with like you and Matt going through it together and like

Travis and I and like, you know, as you know, as you have more success, there's more people that come around you that don't really know you and they just want to like tell you how great you are or whatever and because you represent like a job or some status to somebody or whatever it is. So they're going to tune into that because they want it, you know, or they see you on camera or they see Travis and I doing this or on on TV and they think they know us. But like to have these relationships that predate all of that other stuff is like it's hard to like replicate that with like whether it's friends, family members and you end up really holding on to those

and they end up meaning a lot more and it helps you kind of keep your sense of self for sure undoubtedly. Absolutely man it's that is true words are never spoken like it's very hard to have the same quality relationship in a way with somebody and trust like because it's a big difference like the people that I grew up with who their relationship I know those relationships were based on me and that person they didn't have to do with anything else and that's never a thing that you can take for granted after that point which isn't exactly everybody's trying to but it changes things and of it, maybe it makes us wonder more like, OK, why does this person, you know, want to be like, I remember I had the best thing that ever happened to me

was I got successful and then I hit a really like bad patch. I got a bunch of movies that didn't work. I was in a bunch of tablets and I was like, it was always I thought, OK, this may be over for me. And what happened was a lot of that shit went away. And I was like, oh, I'm not that funny. I don't have that many friends, actually. Like, you know, it was a whole I used to say this like this, and people would laugh.

Like the world changed. I could feel I didn't represent the same thing to people. And I recalibrated and was like, OK, I get it. These relationships are largely what they are. You know, they're not really authentically based on the, you know, me and this person. And that's OK. I recalibrated and was like, okay, I get it. These relationships are largely what they are. They're not really authentically based on me and this person and that's okay. You don't need that many friends.

You just need a few really good friends and not every relationship is gonna be really authentic close friendships. Some things are just like work relationships or whatever it may be. That helped me kind of get it and it was a really, it was just a really helpful moment. And I think sometimes people, like in sports, you look at,

you tend to have this career trajectory, like come in, it goes great, everything's amazing. And like the last couple years, okay, all right, now I'm going to retire. And then after that, like some guys I come across, you know more, maybe you could tell me if it's true or not, like have a hard time adjusting after that because they're like, wait a second, you know, this life is so different now. A hundred percent. That's legit.

A lot of guys, you got to try and find a career after sports while you're still doing it, man. But speaking of work relationships, we got some time to do that too. Yeah, baby. God, dude, that's rude. The Super Bowl commercial was fucking legendary, dude. Yes. Thanks, dude.

So good that thick ass Boston accent. This show is fucking gold. If I go to Dunkin and say, I want the Affleck, what's the order? Get the fuck out of here. No, the power is the ice coffin. I like the chocolate glazed donut, but I don't think they memorialized it as my order. You know what I mean?

But it was fun. The nice thing about that with Duncan was they let us and our company, our security came to ad agency and started building these commercial stuff. And now we kind of broadened it out to a couple of other brands as well. And they kind of were like, okay, you know, because my belief is like, you want to get the connection with whatever the culture or the person is. Like this is in theory, not having to be like, but let them have a voice in what they're creating.

So like let them participate. So, you know, when we had like Ice Spice or Kristen Wiig or or Tom Brady, like only come at them with a script and lines. It was like, you know what your fans want to see. You know what people connect to about you, like bring that to this thing. And people are so much more comfortable and better because they like, you know, lock people into some stupid line and posing with the product. And it just and now people know that is just artificial.

And it doesn't work. You know, so could not agree more. That's awesome. Excuse for letting us fuck around and act stupid. And no, but you're right. It comes across so much more authentic and like even like, you know, so could not agree more. That's awesome. Excuse for letting us fuck around and act stupid and know. But you're right. It comes across so much more authentic and like even like, you know, when when we've done advertisements, when when you as the person behind it in the face, a part of it, when you're actually contributing to like what the thing ends up being, it feels more real to you.

So of course, it's going to feel more real to the people watching. So that makes sense. Your taste like that's important. Whatever it is like your persona, yourself, like that's the thing that that means some people are connecting to you in that way. And like you kind of want to be like, if you're not consistent with it because brand is trying to voice something on you, people buy it. They're like, that's not why I like this guy or this woman.

I don't know. You know what I mean? And so it doesn't even work. But it's fun when you get it right. Hell yeah. Well, we fucking killed it. And I'm not gonna lie. I'm fucking smacking some every time they got those new blueberry ones. They're new to me. I didn't even know. Game changer. I had a box from the other week and I was like, you know what? I've been on this diet. I've been trying to slim down, but I couldn't resist. I reached in there. I took a bite. I make you feel good about it. I took a bite. I didn't even know that blueberry exists. I was like, you know what? I've been on this diet. I've been trying to slim down, but I couldn't resist. I reached in there. I was like, I took a bite. I was like. I took a bite.

I didn't even know that blueberry existed. I was like, what the fuck is this? I just signed my first one the other day. I was like, dude, this is fucking good. I knew all the shit that was, you know. They got that shit figured out. New discovery every day. Yeah, they do.

They'll probably be like, it's been there for years. And I'm just a dumb ass that hasn't had it. But anyways. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, me too. They're like, well, you make commercials for them. You know. I didn't know about the crew, man. Hey, Ben, thank you so much for joining us, man. This has been awesome. I know you got stuff to do. It's such a pleasure, man. I'm such a big fan. You guys are the best and it's really a pleasure and honor. So much fun. Like, I can't say much. I'd rather be like hanging out and talking with you guys

than kind of just do the same old things. It's just great. Awesome, man. Thank you so much. Let's do it again when you have another one that's hit theaters, man. We got so many more questions. We don't even have to do it on camera.

It was just fun chopping it up with you, man. I'll give you better answers off camera. Awesome. You're the man, dog. Ladies and gentlemen, Ben Affleck! Thank you for being with us. Thank you. You're the man, dog. Thank you. I'm out later. And that flag, dude.

What a legend, man. You ain't lying. I mean, I've always been a fan of him as an actor, but you know, you get to talk to the guy, you get to see how driven he is. You can tell just talking to him, how much he cares about just everything he does, how much he cares about just everything he does, how much he's always trying to figure out how other people have success. It was just an all-time combo. And his mind works so much faster than mine. His neurons are fucking

connecting. They're firing quick. Dude is a special human being, man. That show was awesome. Make sure you go check out Captain 2. It's. Pretty damn good movie. You'll enjoy it. Yes, you will. All right. Now let's get out of the house. Man, we haven't hit this segment in a while because Jason just had his fourth child the first time he got out of the house in a long time. This is all true. Jason, how was it? What did you do? Travis, I was with you. What are you talking about?

We both were talking about? We both went to... Oh, we're talking about that. Oh, yeah. Well, we headed over to one of my favorite golf tournaments of all time at the Justin Timberlake 8 a.m. golf tournament in Viva, Las Vegas, where I just can't seem to lose. I just never lose in Vegas, man. There's something about Las Vegas. It's just, you know, it's kind of where I feel at home. There's something Wow, I didn't know. I didn't know that's what it looked like. Oh my God. Oh, it's a solid, solid seek up these maybe. Is my nipples.

My nipples are hard. Why are my nipples hard? Oh my goodness. Oh my gosh. Dude, those are your nips. In fairness, I think it's a little cold. Those are just thermostats working. It was a little breezy that day. That's why Santino's got the sweater on. Dude, you might need to go get some tit reduction, dude. No, no, no. I'm a fan of them. I've always...

Oh, man, dude, that is hilarious. Wow. That's aggressive. It really is. Goddamn, that just made my day. What was your favorite part of the weekend, Jason? My favorite part of the weekend? I don't know.

I mean, getting to hang out with my brother, a bunch of awesome people. No, it was a fun event. I mean, listen, you're at the W in Las Vegas at this unbelievable golf course playing with a bunch of the coolest people on the planet. It was freaking awesome. And we got to meet Justin Timberlake, among a million other people that were there to all be together and have a good time. And it was just, it was done right. I always loved going to these golf outings, where 8 a.m. in particular for this outing, the people at the Tahoe outing, they just do such a great job at organizing it, getting everything set up.

It was just really well run, combined with great people. So yeah, I had a blast. Dude, so much fun. You got thrown into a group with two of my favorite human beings on the face of this earth, Taylor Parsons and Blake Griffin. And I was with another one of my favorite people on this earth, Andrew Santino. And I'm not going to lie, man, Santino was, he's a stick. He's good.

I haven't seen him play this good in a while, man. There was a few shots where he was just absolutely dialed in. He was sinking putts. Yeah, it's fun to watch. That he was sinking putts, I was not sinking putts. Me, Blake and Chandler had great vibes. I was really struggling. My first putt, I think was like a 10 foot putt that I putt legitimately five feet to the point that everyone audibly laughed behind me.

Like somebody legitimately said that can't be serious. It was straight from Happy Gilmore. Like I hit it and I was like, oh no, that thing is going nowhere. And it doesn't help it out that you have that putter. What are you talking about? It's a Scotty Cameron freaking, it's like, it's the best putter on the planet. I'm not trying to hear this. That putter is from the beginning of golf.

Okay. That's how you know it's good. It's made, it's survived for a very long time. It's a great putter. It's survived. Why? Just because nobody lost it? No, people have been playing it and it's a putter that's stood the test of time.

It's classic. Yeah, it only gets you halfway to the hole though. Well, that's if you're a jmoke like myself and you haven't ever, you didn't practice any putts before the hook you got around. There you go. One of my favorite experiences from the weekend is always the karaoke night. They always do a great job of getting everybody to go up on stage and sing a great tune. We all know your karaoke song.

Yeah, we didn'tced up as perfectly as I thought. This is after also after a full day of garage beer on the course. So it was not the best performance. It's an A for effort and entertainment value. Listen, the first like probably like 10 to 15, maybe even 20 seconds was you guys were the most entertaining crew up there and then out of nowhere, it was just like a scream off. Yeah. Of you and the other two just yeah. Absolutely trying to

like get the wheels back on the track. We tried. Yeah, Lee. That was fun. Absolutely hilarious. Shout out to JT. Shout out to Jessica. Shout out to everybody over at 8 a.m. and the win. It's one of my favorites, if not my favorite casino out there, man. They always do it right and and and hook it up during the 8 a.m. And that is that's one of my favorite golf courses out there. Let's get on to one of our favorite segments each week, and that is No Dumb Questions. No Dumb Questions is brought to you by Perplexity. For those of you that don't know, that is an AI search engine we will use occasionally to help us answer some of these No Dumb Questions or questions that arise from the No Dumb Questions or any type of questions

we have during the show. The entire internet has been debating a No Dumb Question and we have been asked to weigh in. From at BDFGHKLNPQVWXY. This is a bot. This is a bot. At Brandon Borders at Jake Chadsky. I'm gonna need Jason Kelsey and Travis's opinion on this. is that Jake Chadsky, I'm gonna need Jason Kelsey and Travis's opinion on this. He quote tweeted, I think 100 guys could beat one gorilla. Everybody just got to be dedicated to the shit. Shout out to dream Jason Mike. We got to answer some questions first. Are we allowed to use tools? Because I can beat a gorilla by myself. I got the biggest gun. Be over real quick, right?

So I think we're talking about hand to hand combat, I guess. Yeah, I think we're just talking hands and hands. Gorilla don't scare me if I got a big ass magnum fucking whatever. But what are we talking here? We're talking like... You can tell I know a lot of guns. Yeah, exactly. Do we...

Are we talking like... What's a win? Is a win like death? Yeah, you're fighting to the death. That's what a win is when you're fighting a gorilla. How do you kill it? That's what I'm saying. You're going to need a tool. You can't kill a gorilla with your hands. You choke it out. I mean, it's going to be a tough sell right there. I think a hundred guys could do it choke it out? I mean, it's gonna be a huff. Yeah, that's gonna be a tough sell right there. I think 100 guys could do it because the gorilla would get tired. But he's gonna go through about 98 of them. He's gonna go, somebody's getting fucked up.

Yeah. And I don't know if I wouldn't, that's why he's saying I think 100 guys would be one gorilla. Everybody just got to be dedicated to the shit. The shit is you're going to get fucked up if you're one of the first people to go at this gorilla. I think one of the reasons these questions are terrible is because humans don't fight hand to hand.

Even, I mean, you go back to looking at, you know, people back in the day, everybody's using tools. I'm not picking up a big ass rock. I'm not going to go fight this gorilla with my hands. I'm going to let you distract him. I'm going to stand in the tree. And then when he's not looking, I'm going to drop a boulder on his head. We're not fighting fair. That's how human beings fight, right? If you're smart, if you want to survive. That's how, now that's dedicated to the

shits. I'm gonna sharpen a stick and then poke that big motherfucker and not have to go and fight it with my hands. And in which case it's gonna be a lot less than a hundred guys. Might be one guy, if you got the right tool. But yeah, if you try and go fight a gorilla with your bare hands, you will die. I'm not fucking with that. Yeah. I mean, it's too strong. It's too powerful. I don't even know how you would kill it. How would you kill a gorilla? Dude, what? I don't know. No, you're not choking it out. You like try and hold it down. I just would like, like 20 people jump on it,

just to hold pin it down. I don't even know if that- But even that I don't think that's gonna work. Yeah, I think they're 20 times stronger than us. That's why it's a dumb question. Alrighty, that's no dumb questions brought to you by Perplexity. That wraps up another episode of New Heights.

Thank you to Ben Affleck for joining us. Make sure you subscribe on YouTube to the New Heights channel and follow New Heights on the Wondery app or wherever you podcast. Special announcement, we will be back next week with a special Mother's Day episode. Yeah. I wonder who's gonna be,

who's gonna be a part of that one? It's gonna be mommy. Once again, New Heights, a wonder show produced by Wave, Sports and Entertainment, and brought to you by Dunkin'. Ooh, these little munchkins. Where to put them? Ooh!

Follow the show on all social media, at New Heights Show for, with one us for fun clips throughout the week, and thanks to our production and crew. You guys are gonna have your hands full this time. To the 92 percenters, please keep tuning in. We'll get good at this one day. When I'm confused about a name, I just try to go as fast as possible.

I think everybody in their right mind says Aflac. Jake, put a poll up. Put a poll up. Put a poll up. right mind says Affleck. Jake, put a poll up. Put a poll up. Put a poll up. Jake, just take it to the audience. Put a poll up. I've never heard one person in ordinary conversation. How often does it come up for you?

How often does Ben Affleck come up? Not often, not often, but it's always Ben Affleck. Never Ben Affleck. Or is that just like the Philly accent getting in there? No, it's just the way. You're overdoing it. You're overdoing it with Ben Affleck. You're overdoing it, you're overdoing it with the lack. You're overdoing it. You're overdoing it.

Ben Affleck. You're either saying Affleck or Affleck. Affleck is an A. You're saying the same. Affleck. You're saying like affect. No, I'm not. I'm saying it's either Affleck or Affleck. You added a T on that guys. I swear to God I heard a T. I definitely add T sometimes.

And that's for sure wrong. Listen, if it wasn't for football, I'd be just like Ben Affleck in Good Will Hunting, you know what I mean? I'd be just working the docks. What docks? You go, doctors, construction. What docks? What docks are you wearing? I've seen that movie. What are you Danny Green? Working the fucking docks at Lake Erie? It's a major shipping hub, Travis. Follow New Heights on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to New Heights early and ad free.

Plus, enjoy exclusive episodes of the show by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey. Even the smallest business can face big risks. Get a business insurance quote in minutes at Zensurance.com slash podcast and receive a $20 gift card. Zensurance policies starting at $19 a month. Be protected.

Be Zen.