New Heights with Jason and Travis Kelce - Shannon Sharpe on Mentoring Travis, Tight End Mt. Rushmore, Playing in Today's NFL & More | EP 35

Starting point is 00:00:00 Yeah, I don't really I don't really talk to camera so I'm having a conversation with you guys So the camera to follow me. All right, there we go If it doesn't make dollars it doesn't make sense Welcome back to new heights ladies and gentlemen presented by wave sports and entertainment You brought to you by our friends over at Fireball Pound for pound undisputed best shot in the land that cinnamon delight is so tasty. We are your host I'm Travis Kelsey is my big brother Jason Kelsey and we're at the wave sports and entertainment Complex look at this

Starting point is 00:00:43 New hides decked out. That's right. New Heights comes to you every single Wednesday. At least we try and get it to you every single Wednesday. And then make sure you subscribe on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts and follow this show on all social media platforms at New Heights show Jason. Why don't you tell us what we got coming up.

Starting point is 00:00:57 We got to go to one today, Travis. We got a real good one. And that's because we have an NFL legend from Glenville High School. That's right, he's an eight-time pro-bohler, five-time all-pro, almost short-changing, three-time Super Bowl champion and overall just legend of a personality. We got Club Shay Shay, Mr. Shannon Sharp in the building. Let's go, baby.

Starting point is 00:01:24 You pass me an all-pro's team. No, no, no, I'm right there. I'm right there. You're four. We even, I don't even think I, you got five, I only got four. Oh yeah, we got five. We have five.

Starting point is 00:01:35 Wait, you got five first teams. I got four first teams on the second team. No, okay. So, but you, you got me, I mean, I'll tell you when I trade you an all-pro for what's another thousand, KC's, thousand YR season. You got it, you know, I'll tell you what I trade you all pro for what's up a thousand K season Thousand y'all season You like you gonna triple me up on those you're seven right I'm at seven right now You got you go triple me eight's got I got I don't you know already know eight that Ocho

Starting point is 00:01:56 I need to get that Ocho I'm man you get that eighth in a row man. You hear me patting my homes All that you got to worry about that. You already know, man. All right, well, as always, we gotta get to the first thing on the docket, which is, NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU NU New news. But it's really no news. New news. There it is. I'm staring at it. All right, first item we got to talk about. Obviously huge episode with you coming on here.

Starting point is 00:02:32 Thank you Shannon. Thanks a lot. First of all, club Chechet. Yes, you got to switch your own right here. Yes, looks unbelievable. So you're on new heights. I am. Should we have called this club Kelsey Kelsey?

Starting point is 00:02:43 No, I think new Hikes fish you guys. I think I have to get fish. The only thing I would recommend is that you get a logo. I don't know what your logo would be. I don't know if you have a landscape or whatever your logo should be. Like my logo is kind of like me. You probably should get a logo. I think so.

Starting point is 00:02:58 So it needs something that, okay, when people see that, oh, they know. Jatheon and Travis. Here we go. Yeah. I think that just makes sense. That's good marketing. All right.

Starting point is 00:03:07 Can I call you Uncle? You can. How did you get Uncle? Now I don't know. I was about to say, I didn't get Uncle from. Man, who was the first person to call you Uncle? Who was the first person to say? The end of that started this.

Starting point is 00:03:19 It started in 2016. And the Broncos were playing the Cowboys. And obviously the Broncos won the game. And I was like, I mean, I want to celebrate. And I was like, man, what can I celebrate? So I stopped by the convenience store, because at that time I was getting up at 315, because I had to be to work at four.

Starting point is 00:03:39 Producing with that four. So I'm up at 315, get the dog settled, take a shower, get myself out, get there in time to get the production. And I was like, man, convenience store was open. I was like, man, what can I celebrate with? So I grabbed some black and miles, and I had a bottle of henna said I was like, okay. So I came out, I got him a black and mild,

Starting point is 00:03:57 I have a bottle of henna said at the time, legend day. And I had a stocking cap on. The meme is legend. Yeah, and from that point on, I said, man, he on, at the cookout. Yeah. And it took off.

Starting point is 00:04:09 And nobody calls me Shannon now. Everybody calls me on or shake. Well, the first thing I wanted to call you was on, but I didn't know if that's the proper thing to say first thing to you. I was like, I'm gonna go with Shannon first. It's up to you now. I'm not saying Shannon.

Starting point is 00:04:22 He's never called me Shannon. He always from the junk. We're supposed to ask this later, but I gotta ask you now. I'm not saying Shannon. He's never called me Shannon. He's always from the junk. We're supposed to ask this later, but I gotta ask you now, because we're talking about your name. Are you the toughest man named Shannon to ever exist? Ever. Is there anybody else?

Starting point is 00:04:33 No, I don't. I think I owned that one. I think I'm pretty close. I think I'm pretty close to seeing yeah. Yeah. I don't know, but hello. I don't really know many other people named Shannon. No, Shannon Breaks with a boxer. He's tough. Yeah, yeah. Box, I don't know but hello. I don't really know many other people name Shannon. No, Shannon Briggs with a boxer.

Starting point is 00:04:46 He's tough. Yeah, yeah, I can't wait. Boxing is heavyweight. Yeah, he might get that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're going out there one on one, nah, not throwing them hands. Nah, nah, I ain't throwing them hands with a boxer.

Starting point is 00:04:56 No. I've not heard that's a new wave. Everybody post career, you just jumping in the box. That is weird, everybody's good. I'm good, I'm good. I don't need to prove how tough I am. It must have absolutely have to prove how tough I am. Yeah, it's one of the, you don't want to do it,

Starting point is 00:05:10 but if you have to, you're gonna have to be here. But sure. All right, find out. Yeah. We're doing a live show in Kansas City. I don't know if you know this. Okay. Have you done any live shows and do you think this is a good idea?

Starting point is 00:05:20 Yeah. I mean, the thing is that how you guys gonna handle the noise, handle the background noise, the ooze and the oz, because like when we do a debate show, I love live TV because the response is instantaneous. I don't have to go back and listen and wonder what they're saying to look at the comments. Ooh, yeah, you know it right away.

Starting point is 00:05:41 So I know, so that's what you're used to. That's what you're used to. You score is instantaneous. You turn the ball over, you get booze, it right away. So I know, so that's what you're used to. That's what you're used to. You score, it's instantaneous. You turn the ball over, you get booze, it's instantaneous. So us as performers, we're used to having it right then and there and not having to wait to get back to see the comments is like, okay, I like that. Yeah, so it feels like you're the crowd,

Starting point is 00:05:59 you feed off of that. Yes, you get a feel for how you're doing. Yes, yes. And you guys gonna do well. I was about to say, you're known as the locker room guy. You're always, you're always a team member. I kept him be famous. Yes, I kept him loose.

Starting point is 00:06:11 Did you ever have to really dial it back in terms because when you're going live, you can't just say what you got, it has to be a thought process, right? Like you can get it loose, right? The thing is that I play to the crowd. So I get a sense early on what the crowd likes. And so now I'm building my, even though I have my arguments already said,

Starting point is 00:06:30 I'm building my argument already, because it's, I'm a performer. So I know what to say, I know what's gonna get the ooh, I know what's gonna get the odds. And so now you build that to like get the crowd on your side, because now it's a competition, it's, it's milking skip. So now I'm trying to win the crowd over to get the crowd on my side. So yeah, absolutely, you play to the crowd on your side. Cause now it's a competition, it's, it's me against Kim. So now I'm trying to win the crowd over to get the crowd on my side.

Starting point is 00:06:47 So yeah, absolutely, you play through the crowd. We're gonna be in Kansas City. So I guess we're gonna be competing. Yeah, you done. Yeah, you got it. You got that crowd going in KC, you probably should have went to a neutral site. That's all I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:06:58 You probably should have been in the back. This is, I'm not kidding. Damn it. Can't even hold it down for me. For everyone listening and watching, you can still win some free tickets. Keep sending us the reason why you're the number one new Heights fan, and we're gonna start picking winners

Starting point is 00:07:09 this next week. Yeah, let's keep this thing rolling. Let's get into the 12-bowl topics, or 12-ish bowled topics. Get into it with my guy, Uncle Real Quick. Let's talk a little bit about the mentorship aspect of things. I've always told everybody how appreciative I am that you reach out on the good games and the bad games. You

Starting point is 00:07:30 don't let the... No. You don't let it slide at all. I've just been so blessed to be able to have somebody like you in my back pocket or in my ear just letting me know from a Hall of Famers point of view on what I need to be doing. And I wanna know, was anybody doing this for you? Yeah, when I first got there, Steve Atwater, who was only a year older than me, he got there in 89, I got there in 90. Guys like Dennis Smith took me under their wings, and I kinda watched them and see

Starting point is 00:07:59 saw how they did things, the way the professionalism in which they displayed. And I was like, man, I kinda wanna be that role. I kinda wanna be when guys come in and they was like, man, I kind of want to be that role. I kind of want to be when guys come in and they're like, man, I kind of want to be like sharp. Man, I like the way you conduct themself. Because football was the most important thing for me. You know, back when I first got into the league,

Starting point is 00:08:15 cell phones didn't exist at the time. Cell phones came in like a couple of years later. But back then, if somebody wanted to get in touch with you, they would actually call the secretary at the Broncos. The Broncos would take a message, Candice or Shenikwa or Shenanee called, called them back at this number and stick it in your box, you had a box with your name on it,

Starting point is 00:08:37 and so they would stick it in the box and your thing. And so as it progressed, then you had a voicemail that was set up. For me, and once the cell phone came, it drove, well, first of all, it drove me crazy. That every time, like every break we got, you see guys run to the phone. Yeah. And it would start calling people. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:56 And so I would just go, I'd just go hang the phone up. Ha, ha, ha, ha. The person that you're calling, what do you think they're doing? What do they think you think you're doing? You're working. You're at work. Yeah. They're at work.

Starting point is 00:09:08 And if they're not, why are you talking to them? So I would just hang the phone up. And then they got the cell phones. And I'd say, see, you're going to be mad when they say, such and such, you want to see you. You're going to be mad to go and say, they left over you. But they didn't have over you. Because that's when my college coach used to say,

Starting point is 00:09:24 my college coach used to say, my college coach used to say, now see, you guys messing around, he would curse. He said, because I know what's gonna happen. When I take your scholarship, you gonna go home and tell your mom and you tell your dad that I left over you. Now, when your mom and dad come down here all huffing and pluffy, I'ma pull out the film. You see your son?

Starting point is 00:09:41 He fucking over me. That's why I'm here. So, that was the approach that I took. But some guys, a Rod Smith, was like a sponge. I say, Rod said, I said, man, because he's like it with a crossman. I said, what you want? He said, I want to be like you.

Starting point is 00:09:57 He said, I want the people to love me. I want the culture to respect me. I said, well, this is what you do. You do this, this and this. Now, he was one of the ones that listened. A guy like Keith Burns listened. A guy like Dwayne Carles, well, this is what you do. You do this, this and this. Now, he was one of the ones that listened, a guy like Keith Burns listened, a guy like The Wayne Carlswell Chamberlain, a lot of the guys that listen,

Starting point is 00:10:10 but a lot of guys that come in, they think they know more than you. Okay, hey, the information is free. I give it to you, you do what you want to do with it. In Travis case, I reach out to Travis, I say, brother, this is what I see. I see some things that you'll look this, you'll look that, I think if you do it this way, I think you have some success.

Starting point is 00:10:27 Just try it, I'm not saying, I'm not, I'm just telling you some things that I saw that I think could help you. When did this start? Was this probably like three by three, four years ago? So, oh, okay, got you three by three, four years ago. Come on, I'm hesitant to give information when someone does a reach out.

Starting point is 00:10:43 Sure. But he's one of the few that will take the information and don't feel like I'm a know-it-all or I'm trying to tell him, well who is he to tell me what I do? You know, I'm this, I'm that. He's like, I don't appreciate that. And so good game, I say, I know you had 10 for a buck 50 and a couple of touchdowns, but I believe you could have had 12 for 175 and three touchdowns. Or if he has a bat, he has four catches.

Starting point is 00:11:09 I said, what's happening is that you're starting to press. You know you're gonna get your catches. Yeah. Don't press. It'll come to you. Just relax. Remember there was a game that we were playing the Rams on Sunday night. It was actually supposed to be in Mexico City, but they switched it to LA.

Starting point is 00:11:24 Yeah. And that game, it was like supposed to be a Mexico City, but they switched it to LA. And that game, it was like the first game where both teams scored 50 in an NFL game. And we ended up getting on the bun side of that record. Score the most points in an NFL game just to lose. But I was a part of losing that thing because there were a few catches late in the game where I wasn't locked in, I wasn't focused. And he was mentioning how in big moments, this has to be more dialed in than your athleticism or like the fundamentals and everything.

Starting point is 00:11:54 Like you can't be thinking too much about the little things. It's all really gotta be just. You're gonna be in the moment? Yeah, it's gotta be thinking about all these stuff. Yeah, yeah. I think the thing is, because sometimes like I said, as you start to press, you start to like,

Starting point is 00:12:06 I gotta do this, man, I ain't got one catch right now. Let me go ahead and get 10 catches on this one catch and you can't do that. I've never seen a guy score without the ball in his hand. Right. You gotta have the ball. So you trying to run. Look at the head of yourself.

Starting point is 00:12:18 Yes, yes, but he was very, very receptive. A lot of guys, you know that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe, well, you're okay fine. You ain't gotta worry about me, but I'm sorry. Cause my thing is, you know that, yeah, yeah, yeah, and they blow, yeah, okay, fine, you ain't got to worry about me, but I, hey, I'm sorry, because my thing is I've already done what I've done. I'm good with what, man, yeah, he's better than me, yeah, grog's better than me, I'm good with that. I got the most out of my God-given ability. I'm not judging myself by what these

Starting point is 00:12:40 guys do. They should. Hopefully they watch some of my game teams like, man, yeah, I think I can do that. But man, just do it here. I would have loved to have played in his era to really compete against him. We gonna get to that one. I'm gonna come up. But I wanna touch on this still,

Starting point is 00:12:59 cause same thing happened to me. John Run, you used to play with the foot off of you. And we did a radio show one spot, a local show in Philadelphia. And he told me something that Jeff's down I was just having a lot of fun with him. He was like, I'm not going to be a fan of him. I was like, I'm not going to be a fan of him. I was like, I'm not going to be a fan of him. I was like, I'm not going to be a fan of him. I was like, I'm not going to be a fan of him. I was like, I'm not going to be a fan of him.

Starting point is 00:13:14 I was like, I'm not going to be a fan of him. I was like, I'm not going to be a fan of him. I was like, I'm not going to be a fan of him. I was like, I'm not going to be a fan of him. I was like, I'm not going to be a fan of him. I was like, I'm not going to be a fan of him. I was like, I'm not just talking about those other guys. I'm talking about you. I'm like, you know, your hands are outside. Right. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:28 And at first, I kind of had what you were just saying. Like, I'm like, man, this is do come into me for like, out of nowhere. But next time I'm watching film, I'm like, you know what? John's right. Like, I do have my hands outside. And that's why I'm getting pushed back on this playwright right now.

Starting point is 00:13:41 That's why I'm not able to solidify the point of attack on the zone. Right. And it always means more. Yeah. Even the point of a tack on the zone. Right. And it always means more, Jeff Stalin had been saying it to me weeks, you know what I mean? But here in a player that you respect and you know had a high level success tell you that,

Starting point is 00:13:56 it just means a little bit more. Technique will keep you in the league a lot longer in the athletic ability because as you start to age your athleticism will start to wane. And the guy is the guy that's more fundamentally sound. The reason why Tom Brady could play 23 years, because he didn't rely on athleticism.

Starting point is 00:14:10 The reason why Peyton Manickard play at a high level for such a long time, he didn't rely on athleticism. You notice guys that rely on athleticism never have very, very, very long career. Because once the athleticism wane, now what? And that's what he's for guy his size. He is fundamentally sound. He has what we call wiggle.

Starting point is 00:14:30 He can drop his hips. Oh my gosh. See, he can drop his hips. He's not robotic. I had to get elusive my whole life. Right. No, seriously, the first time you, we ever put, so we're playing high school football.

Starting point is 00:14:40 Okay. Travis a quarterback. He's playing JV. You be, baby. Playing JV, but he's doing scouts, he'm offence for us. I'm varsity. I'm the older brother. Leader of the defense. I'm gonna like this dude. He gets out, scrambles coming out the pocket.

Starting point is 00:14:54 I want to take his head off and I saw him hips. Those hips went one way to the other way. He shook me. I got him back. I got him back the next play. I was like, okay, now I'm definitely here, but he made me look real silly there. And that was one of those moments as the older brother, I was like, okay.

Starting point is 00:15:11 He's gonna have, he got it. Yeah, he's gonna lie. The way you run, the knees, all that stuff. That's so, you know when somebody's got it, just by watching, right? Yeah, all right now. I got to witness that firsthand. The worst thing I could have did though

Starting point is 00:15:23 is get you fired up above my time. Let's be serious for a second. Is there anything that Travis still needs to work on though? Look, the thing that I told him, I said you need to be more of an asset in the passing game than your liability in the run game. Okay. That's not, he's not this third offensive tackle

Starting point is 00:15:41 that they brought bringing for the point of attack. Right. Can you get in the guys way? Yeah. I said you got to drive to got five yards off the ball. I was an undersized tighten. I was 220 eight pounds. I played basically my career at 220 eight pounds. Yeah. 220. 228.

Starting point is 00:15:53 At tight end? At tight end. My last, my leg is dudes on the field. My last year, my last weigh in, I weighed 223. Oh my gosh. They moved me to tight end. When I got to, I got to Denver, I was about 24 or five on the bench. Yeah, 20 times.

Starting point is 00:16:10 But I got to Denver, I weigh 221 as a wire receiver. When they moved me to tight end, I weigh 205. What? Why did you weigh less? Because I started running, I couldn't, you know, I was running. I mean, just run, run, run, I couldn't lift like that. Yeah. I didn't understand how to, I was running. I mean, just run, run, run. I couldn't lift like that.

Starting point is 00:16:25 I didn't understand how to lift in season. Gotcha. And so, and my eating habits was terrible. I was eating every meal with fast food. And it's like, how do you, and I never, I never had single-digit body fat until I got to like 52. It's probably, I mean, double-digit body fat. It's like, good dream on that fast food.

Starting point is 00:16:41 I think you may have, if you're eating healthy, you probably feel like 180 out there, you know? But I should've been eating more. And so when they moved me, You know that fast food. You might have lied. If you ain't healthy, you probably have been like 180 out there. But I should have been eating more. And so when they moved me, coach Rees, I was always moved tight in. And so they just moved me so they can get me matched up. Because I could block on the move. It's just at the point of attack.

Starting point is 00:16:56 I was just too small. Sure. And 205 to try to root out a Sam Bakker. Yeah. I don't know if it was like, but when I first got in the league, everybody played a 25 front, which means they had the lineback on the ball. Under. And then they went to a, they went to an over front where they put the D.M. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:11 I don't know about this one, coach. D.M. Little bigger. I mean, you try to hold up against Bruce Smith, his straight hand, the Reggie White. Like, I don't know, coach, you might want to just like put me in a flex position. Yeah. I remember the, this Tampa Bay Super Bowl. Literally, they put in Dominik Heshu out at a wide nine.

Starting point is 00:17:30 Right, okay. And we ran inside zone at him and I'm at the point. I came off the field, I looked at the, a run-game corner, I was like, I don't know if we wanna run that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On first down dog. I was, I was, I was almost, oh yeah, in the backfield with the handoff.

Starting point is 00:17:47 And we're in the gun. We're in the gun for man. It was bad. It was bad. We used to run plays and again, he getting the seven. I wasn't holding them really good against seven, five, nine. Nine. They did me a favor because I know we weren't running wide anyway. So I used to tell T.D. like, Hey, Sharpie, what are you looking like outside? Don't come this way. Don't come to know a nothing good happened over here For the cars will side. That's awesome

Starting point is 00:18:13 So you said you saw Travis and you noticed something special. Yeah, yeah, yeah What what is the title need to do that you are like that guy's got it or he has he has imagination, okay? Because it's not just 10 yards and out, 10 yards and in. This is what the playbook says. Do this, man. No, no, no, no, no. He has imagination. He's running a route thinking about,

Starting point is 00:18:36 I'm gonna run something very similar to this in the third quarter and the first fourth quarter. So everything is being set up to fool you. And you, I are watching him run. It's a flanker. I'm watching him run and out route. And I say, you know what? The option is coming.

Starting point is 00:18:51 That whip ride is coming off that same thing. That's seven. So everything looks the same. It's at the same. I mean, he'll change speeds. He doesn't change speeds as much of that as much of that did because I'm like, herky jerk. I was like, oh, start start stop speed up and go again

Starting point is 00:19:06 But he's so fluid and he's not mechanical for a guy his size you think he'd be mechanical robot is He's he's smooth like a guy 230 pounds, but he's 255 260. Yeah, all right We're gonna get back to the conversation with Unk and just a second But right now we need to shout out one of our partners fireball fireball takes any event to the conversation with Unk in just a second, but right now we need to shout out one of our partners, Fireball. Fireball takes any event to the next level, especially celebrating a big game. That's right, Fireball's iconic cinnamon flavor

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Starting point is 00:19:48 Huge fireball guy. Do it. Just don't try to use it to extinguish a fire. Just crack it and enjoy it and you can get fireball wherever you purchase your fine spirits. Right now. Alrighty, if there's one thing I get asked all the time is how do I maintain my health during an NFL off season?

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Starting point is 00:20:16 Travis, this is more than just basic greens. Tell me more. Travis, it's like nine products in one. Just one serving of AG1 covers all my nutritional basis and supports my long-term gut health. With 75 vitamins and minerals and whole food source high-quality ingredients. That's pretty good.

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Starting point is 00:21:00 New Heights. That's athletic greens.com slash new heights. Terms of conditions apply. Not right now. All right. We ask all of the former players that we've had on the show.com slash new heights. Terms of conditions apply. Not right now. All right, we ask all of the former players that we've had on the show. What's your mount rush more? Tight mount rush more.

Starting point is 00:21:10 Who are the best tight engines in your mind in the NFL history? I would take, Trav, Gronk, K-Senior. I don't think this guy gets enough love, but I'm gonna give him his flowers. He came in a little louder me, Antonio Gates. K senior, I don't think this guy gets enough love,

Starting point is 00:21:25 but I'm gonna give him his flowers. He came in a little after me, Antonio Gates. Okay. Gates kinda reminds me of myself because he did a lot of changing speed. Yeah. I mean, it was like slow and slower, but it was changing the speed.

Starting point is 00:21:41 But no, but no, he hurt us for moving movement. Yeah, but I'm never back to it. Why do you think he hasn't gotten the same amount of credit as those other guys? Because you look at the stats. That speak, Tony. You know what I mean? I couldn't, I can't, I was like, bro, how you scored like, how could you score like this?

Starting point is 00:21:58 It looked was just tossing it up to him. Yeah, but I couldn't, man, I look, he was just, I mean, I could have big, I could have big, I had like big games like, I'd't, man, I look, he was just, I mean, I could have big, I could have big, I had like big games, like I'd have like 180, 200, 170 yard games, but Tom would be like 85 yards and three touchdowns. I'm like, damn, how did he do that?

Starting point is 00:22:17 I mean, I'm like, I couldn't score the ball. And plus he had Lidanian. It wasn't like, they didn't have a running game. Lidanian was like jumping in the ends on like, one year, he had Ladanian. It wasn't like they didn't have a running game. Ladanian was like jumping in the ends on like 31 touchdown. And Tom was still could score like that. So I'm gonna give Tony's love. So other four people, you don't put yourself up? No, I'm good.

Starting point is 00:22:35 I'm good where. I did what I did. I maxed out my ability. The way I ate. You don't think you're at top four, 10 and all time? I don't matter to me. I honestly, I don't lose no sleep. I put it like this here.

Starting point is 00:22:46 And there's no disrespect on anybody. I ain't trading my career with anybody. Yeah. I wouldn't trade my career with any tidy and. Sure. I started, I brought my own food. And people ask me like, why do you bring your own food? I say because in the cafeteria,

Starting point is 00:23:01 they're cooking for 100 guys. My food is made for one. Okay. So that was made for one. Okay. So that was my thought process. The way I trained, the way I ate, the way I slept, was all about being the best I could be. I know there's no question in my mind. In my 14 years, I got everything out of my God giving ability.

Starting point is 00:23:18 So that's all I can ask. Am I better than somebody else? I don't know. I'll let guys that do that for a living, grade me however they want to, but I know I maximize my ability. And that's all you can ask for anybody. Did he get the maximum effort out of his God-given ability?

Starting point is 00:23:33 Yeah. Well, I think it's very abnormal for you not to put yourself up there. Some of us not so. I mean, I think two guys have to be up there. Yeah. That's tribe and grunt has to. They have to.

Starting point is 00:23:44 Why do they have to? They have to be, because the thing's tribe and Grant has to. They have to. They have to. They have to be because the thing that I love most about him, you look at the regular season numbers and he's better in the postseason than he is the regular season. What he what we call him is a big game. Yeah. The bigger the moment, the bigger he plays. Grant was like that. The bigger the moment, the bigger he plays. Very few guys and and I Who the hell you think? Patrick's gonna throw the ball to right you go throw it to him right they know that I tried one in our defense She's trying to do this on 80,000 people know that

Starting point is 00:24:15 Patrick home know that he knows that throwing the ball and the defense knows you're gonna get the ball Yeah, and somehow he still comes finds a way to come down with the football Grant with the same way. I would have loved to see Grant had he able to be and stay healthy. Right. His numbers. When he was, he might have had a chance to get his face too. Oh my gosh.

Starting point is 00:24:36 Yeah. But the injuries, I mean, because he's so big the only way you could tackle him with the chopping. And so now the knee ligament, the ankle problems, you know, he had so many, so many injuries that probably shortened his career. And that's what I think when it's all said and done, I don't, when it's all said and done,

Starting point is 00:24:53 I don't know how you make an argument that says, Travis isn't the greatest height in. How do you, you formulated an argument that says he's not the greatest? Well, you did say earlier this year that if he gets a second ring, he is the greatest. Yeah. Because you look at his numbers, the thousand yard seasons, you look at the postseason, his postseason resume,

Starting point is 00:25:13 and you combine those two. I don't know how you say it. Because I don't look at a guy that says, well, he has the most subo ring, so therefore he's the best. Right. No, no, no, no, no. It's a team game.

Starting point is 00:25:23 It's a team game. So what about, okay, the regular season? How many catches. It's a team game. So what about the regular season? How many catches? How many yards? How many times does the regular season? Now come post season. We timed that times too. Yeah. You never come out of a playoff game

Starting point is 00:25:35 where you watch Kansas City and you say, man, man, the trap didn't have it today. He gave you that work every single game. I can tell you one. I got knocked the fuck out against Tennessee and I didn't know so. Oh yeah, that's a good half. But you never know.

Starting point is 00:25:50 You never know. No, I don't remember that. That's the thing. I was concussed, don't I? Yeah, it happened. It happened. When you go into a play, let's just say, okay, regular season.

Starting point is 00:25:59 And you know there's finality to a postseason game. The thing about regular season, I got Nick Sunday or I got Thursday. Well, I got a Monday night. Regulus in the postseason, there's finality to a postseason game. The thing about regular season, I got Nick Sunday or I got Thursday or I got a Monday night. Regulus in the postseason, there's finality. Every postseason football game is a game seven in basketball, a game seven in baseball, a game seven and they say there's nothing like a game seven. So you're playing a game seven every time you step

Starting point is 00:26:20 on the field in the playoffs. What's going through Travis Kelsey? Woo hoo, I'm making that entire week my life. I'm focusing everything on the field to play off. What's going through Travis Kielstaff? Woo-hoo! I'm making that entire week my life. I'm focusing everything on that exact moment, man. And it's, honestly, obviously there's a lot that goes into just anybody's single success in the league. But coach Reed, those playoff game plans are special, man. They are special.

Starting point is 00:26:40 Everything that we've done throughout the season, he knows that we're going into the playoffs with just bangers, all the double moves, all the concepts that we run off of each other are going in. It's a luxury, man. It's a luxury to be in that offense, it's a luxury to play with a guy like Pat Mahomes because you always know you have a chance.

Starting point is 00:26:57 And when you're in these moments, you just get excited to make plays with a guy's next to you. You're the mean, the stadium's got a little more energy to it. The atmosphere just seems more dramatic and more action packed. And it's just, you know, I just love the feeling of playing playoff football. And I've been fortunate I played a lot of them at the house. I don't think I've played too many. I think I actually've only played two games outside of Arrowhead in the playoffs.

Starting point is 00:27:26 Wow. Outside of Super Bowls. Wow. I think to Ung's credit, you do show up in the biggest moments. Even not just football, Saturday Night Live, I watch all week doing preparation for that. The moment the camera went on, it's the best he ever did. I right now. There's just something about, and we'll go back to that playoff game against Buffalo.

Starting point is 00:27:44 Everybody's going crazy. Everybody's going crazy. Stadium's going crazy. There's only how many seconds left were there in that AFC? Oh, the one you got in 13 seconds. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the second. But the thing was, you're wearing nothing like A. That's what I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:27:56 A, A, they do that in a game. You have a presence of mine that still communicates, still be open to doing whatever in the moment. Yeah, I think a lot of that, it all goes back to preparation, man, it always, it all goes back to what you're doing before the game, the event, whatever it may be, to make sure that you feel the most comfortable in that moment, right? And then you just, everything's based off

Starting point is 00:28:24 of the instincts that you've created for yourself. You know what I mean? And it's, are you and Pat talking about the social? You don't have fun, man. Well, you and Pat talk about it being in the zone, right? Where you'll do something, and you're like, I don't even know how that just happened. Just blacked out. Yeah. When you were in meetings, do you and Pat, do you, Patrick, do you guys sit next to each other? No, we don't, but there's always communication.

Starting point is 00:28:44 If there's something that needs to be said, I'll happily stand up or speak up without a doubt. Right. So John and I will say, we sat next each other in the office of meetings. And the route says, okay, 12 to 14. I said, Tim, what you're thinking on this? He says, in practice, go 12 to 14.

Starting point is 00:29:01 I know and you're gonna go eight to 10 in the game. I know you're gonna be sped up. But just for time's sake, oh yeah. Okay, what are go 8 to 10 in the game. I know you're gonna be sped up, but just for time, sake, okay, what are you thinking on this? Okay, if he plays like this, keep it high. The communication's everything. Yeah, yeah, it's everything. And then you start to build understanding

Starting point is 00:29:15 without even having to ask. Yeah, so now you already know like, all right, versus this coverage and I got a version of an out route. If there's somebody out there, like if there's a post trying to take the cap off the defense, but, you know, I mean, he passed the post off and that guy's out there. I'm not about to just keep running out there in the whole.

Starting point is 00:29:33 I'm just gonna sit right here and be wide open. Exactly. So it's just, you start to learn the traits of just really what ends up being the entire offense. Right. You know what I mean? And you kind of create that as it goes, but Coach Reed has been the, he always says,

Starting point is 00:29:48 he said like I got 51%. At the end of the day, it's still my offense. Right. I need you to run this corner. You've got to be running this difficult. So how much leeway does he give you in the offense? I am like notorious for fucking it up in practice. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:02 So I'll test the waters. And I'll test the waters You know, you he'll either give me that eyebrow. They don't But yeah, you already know over the past 10 years though you build the instincts and relationship to really you know Try and make it the best thing for everybody because all I'm trying to do is be convenient for a pat. Right. In certain situations, pull guys towards me so I can open up somebody else. Like it's just, it's, it's painting a picture for the guy back there and make everything that much easier for him. And in terms of leeway, man, I've just been so fortunate that coach Reeds been able to help kind of grow this position in this offense.

Starting point is 00:30:42 Because it wasn't like this in the beginning. You know, I was, I was more of an inline tight end, we're too tight end personnel, both of them are with their hand in their ground. And it was just a different offense. We had Jamal Charles and we were handing the thing off. You know what I mean? Everything was kind of based off of the play action.

Starting point is 00:30:57 And then as Alex Smith in this offense grew to kind of like the spread offense or the air raid, the zone read option, the RPOs and everything once Pat got here, everything's just kind of like the spread offense or the air raid, the zone read option, the RPOs and everything once Pat got here, everything's just kind of been growing and he's helped me kind of grow with it and make this tight end position completely different or just different than what it is across the league. Shout out to Big Red baby. We got to talk about Uncle O'Bitt.

Starting point is 00:31:19 We've been talking about you all this entire episode. Yeah, I don't know what this is about. That's what this next section is. All right now. Titan Records. Huge moment for me last year was getting to 10,000 and then gracing your, when you left the league, what was the receiving record for Titans

Starting point is 00:31:36 and the National Football League. When you were tired of No. 4, obviously, you held all the records for, it was a reception, GRs and touchdowns by the Titan. Did you see the game change from when you first got into the league or when you first moved the Titan to where you were retired? Yes, because when I first got into the league, everybody wanted a third offense attack. I mean, you had to be able to dominate the line of scrimmage.

Starting point is 00:31:58 It was always okay. You could win a Super Bowl if you bring your run game and your defense because that's what traveled. Running the football and defense traveled. And so everybody wanted to, you know, sand egg when I got to sand egg, to sand egg the charges, small and tight end was probably 6'4'275.

Starting point is 00:32:16 Whoa. They had Joe Caravello, they had Arthur Cox. I mean, they had 300 pounds tight end, they had Walker. And so they just wanted to run the football. They had Marion Blust, they had Ron Burstine, and they just powered the football. Everybody ran the football.

Starting point is 00:32:28 And if you call 40 balls, if a Titan called 40 balls, who are you going to the pro-bow? That's going to the pro-bow. And then all of a sudden, I came on the scene and I'm like, I remember looking at the Titans because I think my first year or second year, Ethan Horton went to the pro- pro ball called like 30, 40 balls. And I remember just looking at the

Starting point is 00:32:46 notes and shouting either, I was like, I'm better than him. And I wasn't playing that much. I said, I'm better than him. And it's funny how it all started for me because I was the big, I was the tight end. So I was the big receiver. So I would always play J. Novicech.

Starting point is 00:32:59 I was always a tight end. Why receive? I was 10, Brian. I was whoever's gonna get the ball. I put the jury on who's gonna get the ball. And so one day Coach put me in that tight end and says, okay, you gonna be tight in and practice, so you know they hold the cards up and they says, okay, run this route.

Starting point is 00:33:11 I was like, how you want me to run it? They just go get open. I said, okay. I can do that. And so I just started boom, boom, catch you the ball. And then I would throw the ball in the woods. I'd put in the woods. And I remember Wade Phillips, who was I decordinated at the time.

Starting point is 00:33:23 And he blew the whip, so he said, dang. Put his ass in the game and see if in the woods, and I remember Wade Phillips who was I decorded at the time, and he blew the whip. So he said, Dan, put his ass in the game and see if they can cover him because we can't. So that's kind of how I got started. And they put me out of the way. I ain't no no no raps. I mean, people don't, and I told their story, they put me in motion so John could tell me the route.

Starting point is 00:33:41 So, run the corner. Run the corner. That out route. I was about to say, was it the number tree? Yeah, was it number three? See, I see. See, no, no. So he would actually literally tell me the route. Because I was the Z, I was the Z, and then I played the slot.

Starting point is 00:33:58 And so now they put me at tight end. The funny thing about the system that we were in, Coach Landry used to be a defensive coordinator, so everything was backwards. So on an offensive side, 1-3-5 was to the right. 2-4-6-8 was to the left. Oh my gosh. So now, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:34:15 You can say, okay, say 3, I'm going to the left. Shark, do you not understand? No, I didn't. I didn't think it was going to win it two years. Everything right was 2-6-8. With two, six, six, eight. And so that was really the hardest part. But once I got that down, it clicked. And then John was like, he believed in me.

Starting point is 00:34:34 He said, I'm gonna come to you. I mean, he tell me in practice, he said, you can be special. And I remember going, I got home and I remember calling my brother. I said, man, John told me I could be special. He said, you can be. And so every day at practice, I got to do something.

Starting point is 00:34:48 I went to work every day, said I got to do one thing to make them keep me. One thing, I give me one plate, one route, live one rate, tell them what this coverage is. I got to do one thing to say we got to keep them another day. Make an impression. And from that point on, it was over.

Starting point is 00:35:05 On the thing. Yeah. It was. All right, well, that, that, that, that came close to not happening because the thing was, I was on the board to get cut. I was on the board to get cut. I was on one of the last 12, 14 guys to get cut.

Starting point is 00:35:19 What year is this? This is 1990. I was self-thrunddrab pick. I was on the board. It was my rookie year. 1990. We're self-threatened draft pick. I'm on the board. It's my rookie year. 1990 was it. We're playing, I never forget this. We're playing the arrows on the Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:35:30 And one of the coaches came to me, he said, Shannon, he said, your name is on the board to get cut. Yeah. He says, now, you might not, but your name is on the board. He said, what you should do is go out there and brush, brush your ass. He says, because if we cut you, this tape is going to go to all 31, it was like 20s, I think 27, 28 of the teams.

Starting point is 00:35:50 And somebody might like what you see. They might like what they see. And so as I'm driving to the stadium, it starts to rain. Means we're not going through it. I'm not going to be able to show what I can do in the past games. So now I'm on all the special teams. I'm a gunner. I'm on punt. I'm on gonna be able to show what I can do in the past games. Yeah. So now I'm on all the special teams. I'm a gunner. I'm on punt, I'm on punt return.

Starting point is 00:36:09 I'm on kick. I'm on kick return. Yeah. And so I was like, man, how am I gonna show? Now mind you, I don't get into the game on offense until the fourth quarter. Right. Guys, I cut everything to move.

Starting point is 00:36:20 Yeah. I cut the referee. Yeah. Flat. I cut everything to move if you move you a cut On kick on the kick team cuz back then on kickoff you cut on special team. No, no, no No, I was all off his I was cutting on off his but on on the kickoff You can line up as far as you wanted to right and take off running. Oh, yeah, I lined up 15 yards deep

Starting point is 00:36:41 Oh my gosh, and when I hit the line I was in a full speed Yeah, so when the guy that was blocking me, when he turned around, I was in the chair. Yeah, you already know. I showed deep. Out of here. Hold on. That might be the hardest for you.

Starting point is 00:36:52 Are you out here making tackles? What? I was making it. Yeah, my first year, I'm a second on a team in special teams tackle. What? I'm a second year. I'm a second year.

Starting point is 00:37:02 I'm a second year special team tackle. We need this field. So we came in that Friday. My name was off the board. There you go. Just like that. That's how I closely, to this story, not being told where it was told in Denver.

Starting point is 00:37:14 Yeah, but then you still had that mindset where you went every day. Every day, I'm gonna keep my name off the board. I gotta give them reasons to keep me. Yeah, that's awesome. Obviously, you had all the records when you left. Yeah, is there ever any of those records that you just didn't think was ever gonna get touched?

Starting point is 00:37:29 You still hold a bunch. No, I only, I mean, like the most yards in the game. Yeah, that was 215. Yeah, 214. 214. It's funny. I remember Greg Robinson, he was I defense a coordinator

Starting point is 00:37:44 during the Superbowl. Mm-hmm. And I used to tell him all the time. I said, if you ever went, if I ever played against this defense, I break the record against this defense. I think because of some sound. Oh, no, no, no, no. That wouldn't happen. No, Shannon. That wouldn't happen. Rest is so he passed away a couple of years ago. Law and behold, he's the DC at Kansas City. Now that week in practice, I'm like, I'm like, I'm thinking, I kinda get a sense of how, you can get a sense through the week, like okay, it's gonna be a big week.

Starting point is 00:38:13 I used to call him a brother, a brother, I think this might be it. This might be easy, a dime, a bill. You know, 10,000, 100 y'all say, I think it's one of those type of games. So I remember going to Kansas City, I'm like, he's like, what is looking like this week?

Starting point is 00:38:25 I don't know about five or six. Now funny, cause in the first half, I only had 31 yards. I was about to say that. Hey, 31. And then week two, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine. I had 84 yards,

Starting point is 00:38:37 so we come out the first, the opening series. Coob said, off his accordion, Gary Coob, you had to say, we're gonna run the counter, cause I think they're primed for it. We run counter-past, I go past the line, but get covered too, I rip the seam, and then the safety. Yeah. I like, bro. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:53 Yeah. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, And so I'm like, man, I don't know, I think, I'm doing okay. And then after the game, I still had no idea. And then Jim Salkamana, who was a media guy, he said, you broke the record. I was like, what record? He said, you had just caught the most passes, most yards in a game.

Starting point is 00:39:20 I was like, really? I was like, how many did I have? And he said, two, 14. I was like, two, 14? I was like, really? I was like, how many did I have? And he said, two, 14. I'm like, rap, two, 14? I was like, there are some games that I know, like we played Carolina one year, and I had 174 and only seven catches, and it was snowing like crazy.

Starting point is 00:39:39 And I'm like, man, if it wasn't snowing that day, cause they covered me man to man with the safety or the mic backer. And I'm like, and, if it wasn't snowing that day because they call me man to man with the safety or the mic backer. And I'm like, and that's all they show. You know what, it's great when you see your film. And it's like, are they really gonna do this? Because rest your soul, saying meals was the middle backer at the time.

Starting point is 00:39:59 I said, I know they not been to come. And he's trained about like, oh my goodness, y'all are in trouble. We played Buffalo, we played Buffalo, opening year, 95. Now I missed all off season because I had ankle surgery, I had ankle surgery if I'm not mistaken on both ankles.

Starting point is 00:40:16 And so I was gassed. Had I been in shape like I came in every year after that, I probably would have had 250. Cause I dropped like three passes, cause I was just gassed. I was just gassed. But you know, you have those moments where you like, and that's why I always tell you,

Starting point is 00:40:31 you don't think about it at the time, but you look back and you like, man, I had three drops. That was a 13 catch for a buck, 80, and two tubs, easy. I had six or seven this past year in terms of drops throughout the entire season. And when you really look at it, two of them were in zones and another like two or three of them

Starting point is 00:40:52 were downfield catches. And it's just, you look at them, you see how many yards you had, you see how many touchdowns you had. And it was like almost an extra 100 yards and two touchdowns. And it just beat you up. Yeah, it does.

Starting point is 00:41:04 It beat you up. And I promise you, man, you never get over that shit, you don't, you don't. I gotta ask you this, going into a game, you say you kind of felt when it's gonna be a big game, because I hear that from our guys all the time, our receivers, quarterback, go up to jail and like, what do you see this week? Oh, it's gonna be a good week this week.

Starting point is 00:41:18 What are you seeing, is it personnel who's they're trying to guard you with, or is it structural? Who's a bolt sometimes? Well, for me, I'm looking at it like, who are they're trying to guard you with? Yeah, or is it structural or is it both sometimes? Well for me, I'm looking at it like who they guard me with. Safety, I say, Nah, bro, you're not big enough. Lying back or you too slow. So what do they do?

Starting point is 00:41:33 And so now, for me, when I broke down film, I never really looked at the linebackers or the safety guard me. I always, always looked at the number one corner. Gotcha. How does he play? Albert Lewis really was the guy that got me to the Hall of Fame that made me, he was a corner with the chiefs.

Starting point is 00:41:53 And he was long, he was about 6'2 and a half, 6'3", long limb. And he never gave me a steady doubt of anything. Sometimes he was feathered where he was just like dancing in front of me and I couldn't get my hands on him. Sometimes he would quick jam me like he'd be back and I'd like bam. And then sometimes he would press me. And so he never gave me a steady die of anything.

Starting point is 00:42:11 And so every, so I just like, okay, this is, if I can beat him, nobody else can see me. But he knew that if I ever got my hands on him, it would, but he did a great job. Yeah, he did a great job of feathering a dancing and came down steady die of a lot of different things. And so that was, that was my focus beating him, beating him. And then finally, he was a free agent. And I know a camcetta time that y'all didn't spend no money. I said, woo, finally, he leaving Kansas

Starting point is 00:42:38 city. He goes to the radio. I was about to say, he goes to the radio. Because at that point in time, I'm killing the raiders. I mean, I'm, he goes to the ratings. I'm just kidding. Because at that point in time, I'm killing the ratings. I mean, I'm just 13 for a buck 56. I'm doing, you know, six for a buck 20, trellipotent store. We had a, I had $100,000 in my contract one year. I needed a hundred and 20, I need a hundred and 21 yards to get that,

Starting point is 00:43:00 get a thousand. A thousand dollars to give 100? Going into the last game. Going into the last game. Hey. Money day. That's a play on money game right there I had six catches a hundred sixteen yards and two touches no and then catch another pair no I've been five yards short of a thousand please tell me they still gave it to you

Starting point is 00:43:21 no and check it out and I, man. Fuck, man. And I never get suspicious. That ain't right. Yeah, cuz guess what, the next week, how many, how many plays did you get in the second half? Well, I played all, but I'm saying how many did, I didn't get another pass throw my way, I didn't get another play.

Starting point is 00:43:36 You don't think so many made a call? Of course they did. Yeah. Cuz the next week, I go out there and share it in a five year, I don't want to share it in a five. It's not throwing the ball, it's not throwing the ball. I go out there the next week. I go, to my shit is fine. It's not throwing the ball. It's not throwing the ball. I go out there the next week I go on my go 13 for a 53 touchdown

Starting point is 00:43:48 Dude I'd be hot. I'd be so mad. You know, man Who had a who had one like that too is George Kettle. Yeah, same brand new. No, the because he got close to almost Be oh, yeah, he had like two ten in the first half. Yes Single didn't catch a single ball. Yeah, they can't let him do that. It gets the Bronco. Anybody out of it all. You gave break by ringing the kids by.

Starting point is 00:44:13 Yeah, man, it was tough, man. I just know I'm like, man, I'm about to get this. I'm about to get this. Somebody get a hundred pounds. I was like, I was killed. I mean, the first half I was killing trash. I was eating, I was like, oh man, they had Anderson covering me. I mean, he was like, he was a hitter.

Starting point is 00:44:32 I mean, he once he called a, he called a, that's a fed, that's a fed you ain't for saying he's slow. Yeah, he was called a receiver coming across the middle. Yeah, and then counting them out like he was in. No, he did. That's back. That's a bad man right? Oh, yeah, but see back then, they would. How's he going the out route though?

Starting point is 00:44:56 No, no, no, no. What? What the hell is this? What's that woman that's like? And I ran that stuff with, he took a horrible angle. I got into ball. I'm like, you want this? I's that woman that's like? And I ran that sever. He took a horrible angle. I got into ball and I'm like, you want this? Out of there. Oh gosh.

Starting point is 00:45:09 But those were the times, I would, I mean, for me, the now, the defense receiver, and you can't hit the guy, I'm like, what is the defense receiver? If you got a hell of an shoulder pass, I'm like, how are you defense-listen? So, yeah, all right. We're all on the same page with you on that one. Well, no, I mean, if you're,'re, if you're a reach for a ball,

Starting point is 00:45:28 but I mean, your defense is right. No. Why not? You got a hell of a shoulder bag. What you think is going to happen. It has gone overboard now. Yeah. Because now like defenders are defenseless on like a crab.

Starting point is 00:45:39 But what happened to you? Have you had on a swivel? And I said, you know, if you don't got to defend yourself, like you just like, yes. And I see that a lot of times, guys, there you try and block me. Guys, don't want to get that. You don't got any, don't want to get that fine. Responsibility on you. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:52 They don't want to get that fine. And so I see guys, you got an opportunity to make a play and they let the guy catch it and then they fly by and he goes for touchdown. Right. I'm like, bro, come on. Yeah. It's not good for the game. But I get it because the NFL don't want another billion dollar, two billion dollar

Starting point is 00:46:05 concussion lawsuit. Yeah, things are back coming down the pipeline. But I think they've tilted the field too far to the office. Too much. Yeah, too far. So what would you do in today's NFL, you think? As far as numbers. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:46:18 Yeah. Go. I'm definitely getting his number. I'm definitely getting his number. Oh. You're. My, my, I need John, no, I need my quarterback. I'm going to say. I'm going getting his number. I'm definitely getting his number. Oh, you're, my, my, I need John, no, I need my quarterback. I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say.

Starting point is 00:46:28 Yeah, yeah, you put it, you put it to him in this offense. I can see, I can see. But do you think the players on defensive change a little bit? Because we talked, like, who is that linebacker that you said? The, uh, really big, uh, but good hitter, but, oh, you know, he was a safety, uh, Eddie Anderson. Eddie Anderson, yeah, you don't really see any of those guys. No, no, no, no, no, no, but see back then, if I'm, if you're a linebacker, what lineback, but oh, you know you the he was a safety. I said it is a idiot. Yeah, you don't really see many of those guys. No, no, no, no, no, but see back then if I'm if you're a linebacker,

Starting point is 00:46:48 what lineback is a oh, he got drafted in the first round because he can cover. Most guys are thumpers. Most guy linebackers want to come down here. Right. So now you're asking them to cover in space. Right. That's not what they do. They're trying to get to the quarterback or a Von Miller or TJ White or their thumpers.

Starting point is 00:47:06 Well, Kwan Smith guys come. Fred, now Fred Warner is better. He's good in space. But Fred Warner is not covering Kelsey. He's not covering a kid or a wall or one on one. He's dropping back. He's playing that Tampa two or three. He's making a fool of you.

Starting point is 00:47:19 He's getting back in the hole. He got good speed. He can drop. So for me, with a live back, I was like, bro, you got no chance, really unless you got help over the top. And you know when they got help over the top, you ain't getting nothing today, but I should come out there on the field and say, I'm gonna give it a U to first half.

Starting point is 00:47:32 And just so you don't feel lucky, left out, I'm gonna give it a U to second. So head back on the game. I'm still in that one. Would you rather play a really slow player or a smaller player? You said before, safety's too small, linebacker's too slow.

Starting point is 00:47:47 Which one would you rather? Oh, shit. It depends on what ride you're running. Yeah, well, because I just want him to smaller guy, I'm trying to get my hands on him. Got you. Cause see, the thing with a smaller guy, I want him to think he can get physical,

Starting point is 00:48:01 he can get my chest. Cause the thing is, I'm never gonna let you square me up. See, once you the thing is, I'm never gonna let you, I'm never gonna let you square me up. See, once you square me up, I'm dead. Once I give you this, I give you the A and the four I'm dead. Right. I might as well just stop the rap. So how do you not give them the A and the four?

Starting point is 00:48:15 I'm always, I'm playing on the angle, I'm playing on the side. Yeah. I'm never gonna have for the man. Yeah, I'm half a man. Okay. I'm half a man. I'm, I'm, I'm even old. Once out of your number, I'm on the other side of your number. Yeah. But I'm half a man. Okay. I'm half a man. I'm even old. Once out of your number, I'm on the other side of your number.

Starting point is 00:48:25 But I'm not... There was probably a three game spend that you actually hit me up about about somebody getting in my chest. And just how I was getting off the boat. Yeah. And it's literally, well, every time you play one of them

Starting point is 00:48:38 in New England, teams with their butcher, yeah. Huh? Chill out, man. Just saying, I'm sliding on the line. You're trying, you're the only thing. He was talking about just the safety of it. Just the'm sliding on, I'm trying. He was talking about just the safety. Just the safety, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:48:49 He was talking about that. You can't let him square you up like, you know, but it's literally, it's as small as what you're stance. And then on top of that, it's just being the aggressor. Right. If you're, if you give the defense the ability to try and react off of them, I just feel like you're putting yourself in a disadvantage. If you always have the defense reacting to what you're doing, you're gonna have the upper hand

Starting point is 00:49:10 because that's the timing of the, the timing of the route and the ball placement, all that is just gonna take it, it's gonna do its job for you. You know what I mean? It's kinda like golfing. I let the club do the work. You gotta go out there and just make sure you get

Starting point is 00:49:22 some good contact, maybe. That's it. I mean, you know, my line, I just make sure you get some good contact, maybe. That's it. I mean, you know, my line, I'm looking, I was constantly moving my hands. Because I would, preferably, I want him to react first. You reach, I teach. Because once you reach, I'm grabbing this. It's over, you physically. If I get my hands on you, it's over.

Starting point is 00:49:42 Yeah. As a bigger guy, I'm not letting you touch me. Right. And today's NFL, what leads you to say you'd have unbelievable numbers? Is it the fact that they pass that much more? Or is it the way the game's called? In favor of offense?

Starting point is 00:49:55 Both. But because you have to understand, I think in my 14 year career, I think I had 10, 1000 yard rushes. I had a 2,000 yard rush on 1,750 yard rushes. It seemed like they could put anybody in there. Yeah, Broncos teams, it was crazy. Yeah, and we were, but that's the way we won the game.

Starting point is 00:50:11 Yeah. But now you're playing so much space. Yeah. I mean, Travis has to spend like 80% of his time in a flex position. No doubt. Yeah. And to be able to stand up and see the field,

Starting point is 00:50:21 I can see that triangle. I said, okay, I missed top. Y'all ain't playing no cover, too, but you have to go to quarter. Y'all have to go to see the field. I can see that triangle. I said, okay, I missed top. Y'all ain't playing no cover, too, but y'all have to go to quarter. Y'all have to go to lurk. Y'all ain't playing no two. Y'all not playing, y'all playing cover six. Who y'all kidding?

Starting point is 00:50:33 So I can see all that. You have to understand when I'm in a down position, by my third step, I have to have read the defense. Yeah. Now, if I'm in an up position, I can see I already know what you're gonna go to. Well, Ann, once you've removed yourself from the box they have to declare. Yeah. Because they don't. Yeah. They're going to be compromised. I know I can see. I'm watching from the TV and I was like, God, I got cheating down. He coming.

Starting point is 00:50:55 Yeah. There's a reason why this safety is cheating down because I got over Travis coming. He coming. Yeah. It's like you do realize he can't hear you. But I know I hope I'm over the day. I'm over the behavior here but I'm over the cake. You know we're on the same page. But another thing that has helped out a lot in terms of just defensive recognition is coach Rita loves to put us in motion. And what that does to the defense, to have to communicate, changes a lot of the rules, especially in the box and the safety is when they come down into the box but it helps

Starting point is 00:51:22 declare everything. Yes. And we did, I wanna say, we did one of the dumbest things ever in college for a tight end. Oh my gosh, we would stand with our hands on our hips. They still have a power. Did they? I was gonna do that. When I tell you, I've seen guys get jacked up in the run game looking like that,

Starting point is 00:51:43 but it was to try and help see what's in the defense. See what's going on on the other side of the field, because when you have your hand in the run game, looking like that. But it was to try and help see what's in front of him. See what's going on on the other side of the field. Because when you have your hand in the ground, I mean, you can still kind of see everything, but for the most part, you're just seeing what's in front of you. Right. Well, the thing that really helped me is that because I started out,

Starting point is 00:51:58 is that reading, reading, trying, or so. But at the time I get down, while I got down, I was like, okay, over front, this is what they like to play in the over front. This is like what they play in the under front. And so by my third step, okay, this is what it is now. When you say read the trin, what's that mean? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:52:14 Well, I'm looking at you and you. I'm looking at corner, this is in front of you. Yes, safety. Safety, I'm looking at the backside. I ain't worried about the backside, I'm looking at with that safety. So are you going to rock and roll, which means when you come down to other go to the hole? Sure. Are you going to split? Yes. Or are you going to stay there

Starting point is 00:52:30 and show me that it's quarters? Gotcha. Yeah. So in right away, you know, just by that rotation. I know I know what I got to do with my route. Got you. At the end of the I'll give them what you do. If longings with my back foot hit, you're ready to get the ball. The hardest thing for me was to slow myself down. Cause I was getting open, but John wasn't ready to throw the ball. And so by the time he's ready to throw the ball, the defenders caught back up. He's like, hey, you got to slow down. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:55 Cause I'm so angry. But he, I was like, give me the bra, he's like, bra, I mean, it is my progression. Exactly. Well, no, even from regression, because here's the thing, one, two, three, okay, the ball's gonna come out. One, two, three, four, five, the ball's gonna come out. It can't cover you out of five, step, drop, and I can't throw it in three.

Starting point is 00:53:13 Gotcha. So now, okay, now, rhythmic, now I got, okay, I got time. I can really set this guy up. And the thing was, I'm working on things in practice. And it's like, and the guy, the thing that really helped me is that guy, a, say to me, tell me, a, you tip that one. I was like, the thing that really helped me is that guy, a, say to a tell me, a, you tip that one. I was like, bro, how you got to, that's something I messed up.

Starting point is 00:53:29 He said, I can tell you started getting on your toes. Yes. It said, when you get on your toes, you break it in and out. Now, I got a guess which one, but because you stayed inside of me, I had a feeling that you was going to break out. Yeah. So now, that keeps me okay, I got to, I got to stay on my toes. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:53:44 If you can beat the guys in practice, that see you every day. That's seeing you every day for three, four, five years, come game time, they got no chance. Because I don't care how much film you walk, it's the intricacies that you can pick up when you're like right there. Like certain guys, foot play, I watch a guy,

Starting point is 00:54:01 and I'm just looking at his feet. Yes. He's square. Oh, he's run. Oh, he got a split stagger just a little bit. Oh, you've been come just looking at his feet. Yes. He's square. Oh, he's run. Oh, he got a split stagger just a little bit. Yes. Oh, you've been come on the list, Andy. Yes.

Starting point is 00:54:09 I've been running. I know. Yes. Stop lying, you are coming. Seriously, no, all those little things add up. And that's what, that's a mark when you got a good team. Yeah. You won three shoe balls with two different teams.

Starting point is 00:54:19 Two different teams. In that feedback is important for you. Yeah. If you see something in your buddy, you might as well tell him, because the damn sure they're gonna see it on film. Or some of you play a bunch in your division, it's gonna start to feel that tendency, right? Or you see a guy, he's in a down stance,

Starting point is 00:54:34 or if he's like, I said, D'Liam and he's like, oh, you drop it. You not coming, you're not gonna come. So why you hand barely touching the ground? Right. Because if you've got too much pressure, you can't get up out of there. Yeah. So you have barely touching.

Starting point is 00:54:47 You talked about evened up stands versus elongated, right? Yeah. First second down, a lot of those deliming more evened up, right? They're getting ready to defend the run. Right. All of a sudden they drop that foot back on first, second down. You're like, okay, somebody's tipping them.

Starting point is 00:54:58 Yeah. Why is this dude getting in a pass from the stands first, second down? They start looking at the tackle. Tackle stand, like, it's a whole. Yeah. yeah okay we got to get to the down I can't be having to do right passing the roads knowing when it's pass or run yeah that ain't fun and they get on different levels like what y'all y'all twisting them which I got going on white also on like different left we're giving up too much information to do like

Starting point is 00:55:18 he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he DeLine ain't thinking about all this, are they? They're getting smart now. They used to not be smart. They used to not be. And now, you know what they're doing is they're recording the game footage and they're getting your verbiage. And I think it's happened a more now than it ever used to.

Starting point is 00:55:35 Of course. And so now it's on us to really change it up and to make it so that similar calls are happening and run and pass or this play in that place so that you can't get pigeonholed. Hey, every time he says this is they're blocking man-oh-man every time he says this it's a pass play every time he says this is the rumbly You can't do that anymore. I one of my best games we play in the charges and Junior say I every time they said Reno on Nevada. They went to a cover two. Yeah, and so I said I said I said

Starting point is 00:56:02 I said a mic every time they say Reno on Nevada, they go cover two. He's like, really? I said, no matter what the up with the over front or under front, it does not matter. When I hear Reno, they go every single snap. Every time they went to it, I ended the day with, I was, let's just put it like this. I was an AFC office player. It's nice. There's nothing else.

Starting point is 00:56:24 The AFC office player. That's nice. That's nothing. AOC office player, we got to that game. We talked about South of the Rumpic. We also talked about no cell phones. Yeah. What was it like getting drafted? What was it like?

Starting point is 00:56:34 It was in 1990. 1990. What was it like getting drafted in 1990? Well, back then, the draft started on Sunday. Was it all on one day? No, it was, I think, the first two rounds on Sunday. Was it all on one day? No, it was, I think the first two rounds were Sunday and then the next Monday was the rest of the draft. Okay. And then when I didn't get drafted on Sunday, I was at my brother's house in South Carolina. And so I didn't get drafted. So I remember

Starting point is 00:56:58 going upstairs and he said, bro, we gonna be good. He's like, bro, don't even worry about it. You know, hey, I got you whatever, whatever happens, going happen. I say, but I got you. I say, bro, don't even worry about it. You know, hey, I got you whatever happens, I'm gonna happen, I say, but I got you, I say, man, I just want an opportunity. So we woke up next morning, say, man, come on, man, I just want to go live, let's go live. So we at the University of South Carolina, we in the gym. How are you lifting his wilder drafts going on?

Starting point is 00:57:18 Yeah, they're drafting, because I'm already like, where the hell is what it is? Yeah, but how are you gonna, you ain't got a cell phone, how they gonna call you? It is, right? Wouldn't even worry about it? But no, and that's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about, but how are you gonna, you ain't got a cell phone, how are they gonna call you? It is, right. You wasn't even worried about it? But no. And that's what, that's what,

Starting point is 00:57:26 that's what I'm talking about. I'm already pissed off. So I remember I'm in the gym and I'm working out, it's like, hey, call for Shannon Sharp. I'm like, man, who know I'm here? Who know I'm here? It's Coach Reeves. No, it's Lied Huggins.

Starting point is 00:57:39 Lied Huggins at the time, he said, we just took you in the seventh round. Are you excited to be a Bronco? I said, I'm, man, I'm very excited. So I really appreciate this. I said, you guys ain't gonna regret this. Coach Reed gets on the phone. Coach Reed says, okay.

Starting point is 00:57:53 Now, I know about your brother and but your brother can't catch you in the past before you hear. He says, I expect you to come in and work. I said, Coach Reed, I'm a work hard. Yeah. I'll show you. So you were in the gym. I'm in the gym working out.

Starting point is 00:58:04 Hey, that's gotta be the most exciting news. A head coach. Man, man. You call a guy to get drafted and he's in the gym working out? I am. I am like, yes. We got to play.

Starting point is 00:58:15 We got the right guy. We got the right guy. We got the ticket. I go to my home, get my bag, send me a ticket. I go out there. Yeah. And the same thing I said when I went to Savannah State,

Starting point is 00:58:26 I was like, man, I can't go back, I gotta make this team. I said, man, I can't go back to Glentville, I can't go back to Savannah State. I'm not on the roster, man. I said, man, I had too much of, had a great career in Savannah State. Nobody believed in me, nobody believed that I can make it from Glentville, going to Savannah State,

Starting point is 00:58:42 it's like, yeah, you're the best player here, but you won't be the best player in college. You're the best player in college. You ain't gonna make, I said, man, I'm later for that. So, man, I got the Denver, I just work, work, and I remember we're in training camp, and this is what I would never do this,

Starting point is 00:58:58 when I make this team, I'm never gonna do this. I didn't know the play. So, I asked the guy, man, what I got on this route? He said, run this. I go in there, I run it, it's wrong. Oh, man. Bad coach Reeves. Coach Reeves, you should get upset,

Starting point is 00:59:12 this is big old, big old vang, but popping out the side of his head. What are you doing? If you don't know the app and play, don't go in the game. I just look at what, but we complete for the job. Yeah. That's crazy. So I said, I never had anything to do anything like that. Yeah, that's crazy. So I said,

Starting point is 00:59:25 I never had anything like that. Yes, it's a bra. I would never do anything like that. But. You think you did on purpose? Of course he did. I mean, you can be a boy job. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:59:34 It's suspicious. Yeah. I know he knew what to do because he was there the year before. Right, it wasn't like, So it was all good. And I just know just make sure I know what I'm supposed to do. So, I can't fault him because I didn't know hell I should know what to do from the beginning.

Starting point is 00:59:50 But I just wouldn't know he could have just said I don't know. Yeah, that's a pros mentality to take right there. I was just fucking pissed at him. No, man. Look, when I was in Baltimore, they drafted Todd heaping the first round. I know Todd, they got to let Todd play sooner rather than later. But my job is to get him ready as soon as I possibly can. Because if something happened to me during the season, Todd is gonna be ready to play.

Starting point is 01:00:11 And, you know what? Todd is gonna be a reflection of me. How well he plays that year, how well he plays moving forward, was, we had a lot to do with the information and little subtleties that I taught, helped teach him along the way. So for me, I was never insecure about, you know, somebody beating me out for the job. You know, I tell guys all the time, I taught him everything, he knows, I didn't teach him everything, I know.

Starting point is 01:00:33 I say, I say some of that. I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, you drafted a receiver. I was drafted a receiver. Travis, I think by most people's, oh you're going with it. You drafted a think by most People's go you go There's a quarter back. No, I am a receiver. Yeah, I think those people say Travis is not a tight end He is a receiver. What is the difference anymore between a tight end? Are they like we play 11 personnel?

Starting point is 01:00:56 You're right with the F receiver. Yeah, he goes out and digs that safety out. Okay, we do the same thing out of 12 They're in nickel regardless What is a tight end just to receive a discount? Yeah, they call them. It's certain offense. They call them receiving tight ends now. They distinguish them because they're really like, nobody really runs the ball.

Starting point is 01:01:14 So they're not needing the tight end to be at the point of contact. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, basically, you know, he's doubling and leading up, going to the same deal. They doubling and getting up to the backer. There's a group blocking the things of that nature.

Starting point is 01:01:25 But where he's like responsible, I mean, Kettle, not Kettle. Yes, he does. He's a dog. He's a boy dog. Hey, he puts them a clinic every week. He puts on a clinic. He dumping people on their back.

Starting point is 01:01:40 It's impressive. Yeah, very impressive. Yeah, especially like you said, those four down defensive ends who are putting their hands in the chest, coming up from the front. And he'll go in stance. To go one on one with a guy in a seven technique or the dig a guy in a five.

Starting point is 01:01:51 Yeah, I had no chance with a five of the lay bay. Bro, don't you cut that back? You just cut it back, you go put that here, but you're here, but why don't you just cut them? Oh, we did not. We don't, I don't think you can, can you cut now? You can. You can if you're attached. If you're attached, you can, you can, you can't, you don't think you can, can you cut now? You can. You can if you're attached.

Starting point is 01:02:05 If you're attached, you can, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't like post them up and then cut them anymore. They got, way that. But as long as you're in the tackle box and within five yards plus or minus, you can still do it. But it's, it doesn't happen that much anymore.

Starting point is 01:02:18 My first five years in the league, I was throwing at everybody. I was throwing at safety's corners. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. But if you go back and watch out tape, it's like synchronized women. Yeah. Because that for all for down line with feet well up in there. Yeah. So we don't cut

Starting point is 01:02:32 everybody. It's like a mandatory cut on the back side. Right? Yeah. And that's the way it was when we first started right outside zone. When I first got installed, you don't have an option. Yeah. You're cutting on the back side. Yeah. Absolutely. Because the thing was we were a cut back team. Yeah. And T.D. needed to know he could cut back and the helmet wouldn't be in his health. Right.

Starting point is 01:02:49 So I'm putting them. Oh, you going on the ground, bro? Yeah. Yeah. You going on the ground? What was the hardest type of player to cut? You think? Lateral?

Starting point is 01:02:58 Yeah. If they're moving lateral, then it's a little bit like, yeah, I don't know if I'm again. The thing was I was so quick. Yeah. And so I could, hey, and before they know it, and you know, they try to get, I put them up under them. You're already under them.

Starting point is 01:03:09 I'm up under them. And so all I needed, all I needed was the tackle to like make him do this. Yeah. If he did that, it's over. It's done. It's over. But once he's turned and he's not square anymore,

Starting point is 01:03:20 he can't defend it. It's over, it's over for him. And I, I mean, I have some great tackles. I mean, both of my tackles in the Hall of Fame Gery Zimmerman with a two time all-in-a-fail player in the 80s and the 90s. And then Jonathan Ogden was all-decade player in the 2000s.

Starting point is 01:03:35 So, well, 80s and 90s for Zem and J.O. was, and I said, look, I'm coming. Yeah. I'm coming. So they knew. I said, I'll cut you. I don't want to. Yeah, I don't want to.

Starting point is 01:03:47 You better get out of the way. You better get out of the way. Yeah. It's a darn hard it really is. And it's a shame that, you know, I don't, the NFL is always trying to make the game safe from me. But I always felt like that prevented the defense. If you're out of control, you can get cut.

Starting point is 01:04:01 Yes. If you're under control and moving like lateral, it's a hard person to cut. Yeah, it is. So in a way now guys can go out of control. There's no, what's the harm and going out of control now at the second level? A lot better going to run right through your face

Starting point is 01:04:14 without having to worry about anything before, that's all right? Yeah, we come at me. I'm gonna take them these out real quick. Yeah, we were notorious for scooping. Yeah. And we put you on the second level. I mean, Alex Gav, who was the old line coach and our run game coordinator, oh,, and we put you on the second level. I mean, Alex Gill, who was the old line coach

Starting point is 01:04:26 and a run game coordinator. Oh, you had to put them on the ground. And that's what it drives me crazy with screens to see the office of Lyme and try to stay up. Just throw that you can't name more. You can't name more. You can't cut. Not in space.

Starting point is 01:04:39 It's elephant's I'm prayed out there in space, baby. It is not a good site right now. I used to love it. I used to love cutting out in space, baby. It is not a good sight right now. I used to love it. I used to love cutting out in space. Oh, you can't do it anymore. You get only within five yards in the tap box. The barrel's in Donkey Kong. He just barrel rolls about.

Starting point is 01:04:56 You can do it if it's like a middle screen. But it's risky. Yeah. You got to get him before you get fired up. Yeah, they outlawed it a few years ago. So that's what I was like, bro, why y'all not? Yeah. Because before, the same thing.

Starting point is 01:05:09 He's not being option. Like listen, you're too fat and slow to try and redirect with this man in space. Use that length. I thought you got it. I thought you got it. I thought you guys were just trying to run over the little guy.

Starting point is 01:05:19 Well, they do do that too. Yeah, I try. But, no, you can't cut anymore out in space. Oh, man. Yeah, anyways. I don't know you can't cut anymore out in space. Oh, man. Yeah. Anyways, I don't know how we just got into a side traffic about cutting. I love cutting. I love it. But you don't cut these back.

Starting point is 01:05:31 You'll really cut everybody. Huh? You don't go on whack. When's the last time you cut? I can give it at least one. They're trying to outlaw that cut too now. Yeah, they are. You're talking about the split zone.

Starting point is 01:05:41 Yeah. They're trying to outlaw that going back and cutting the D DM because a couple guys tore their knees up last year doing it. Yeah. Well, the ends are just cutting back now. I know. And then it's just two guys trying to cut each other, which is always funny to see just like two guys button heads and fall on the ground right away,

Starting point is 01:05:57 which is a win for the offense. Yeah. I'm fine with it. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know where we're going with it, but I like. All right, well, that's enough with cutting. We're two brothers in the NFL. You very notoriously had a brother in the NFL.

Starting point is 01:06:10 Yeah, what was it like having Sterling the NFL as an older brother leading the way? Man, it was different because my brother, we don't have a very different relationship. It's almost like he's my father. Really? Because my father died at a young age, my grandfather died at a young age, my grandfather

Starting point is 01:06:25 died at a young age. And so the dominant male figure that I saw on the regular basis for him. And I wanted to be just like him. And what was the age difference? Three years. Three years. Three years. Everything I went, everywhere he went, I wore every number that he wore, I wanted to be just like my brother. I mean, my first college girlfriend, just like his college girlfriend. I mean, my first college girlfriend, just like his college girlfriend. I gotta give me one. Yeah, yeah, babe. I'm talking about, I'm talking about from the hairstyle,

Starting point is 01:06:49 I'm talking about the way she was built, her skin complexion, her teeth, they were exact. And I didn't even think about it. I didn't even think about it. Until I brought her home and my sister, she like, that girl looked just like Tammy, which was my brother's girlfriend at the time. And I was like, I ain't really and my sister, she like, the girl looked just like Tammy, which was my brother's girlfriend at the time. And I was like, I ain't really thinking about it,

Starting point is 01:07:09 but not as you think about it. You really do. But it was great because he told me everything that I needed to know. And he was always that brother that told me what I needed to know and not what I wanted to hear. And he would always like, he would always find a way to my basketball games.

Starting point is 01:07:28 He would always find a way to come back and see a basketball game. The track meets, he would drive three hours just to see me run. He always went to the state track meet and said, okay, this is what we gonna do. You gonna help, you know, because you got to throw the disc. You know, I was a field of being guy.

Starting point is 01:07:42 He says, okay, you only got one jump. You only got two jumps. You got to win the triple jump with my specialty. He said, you got to win it on the first or second jump because you still got a long jump later today and you got to throw the disc also. And we still got to run later today also. So we got to save these legs. And so my thing was the nail that first jump

Starting point is 01:08:00 went to meet with that jump. And then when I got to college, I wasn't gonna go to Savannah State because after I did, I was Prop 48. Prop 48 went to effect. My first year in 1986. Okay. So if you didn't make seven on SAT,

Starting point is 01:08:14 you couldn't go to D1. And so at that time, I was like, I had already lined it up. I was gonna take the test. I was gonna go to the Air Force. And my brother came down and said, you will go, say, a Savannah State still interested? I said, yeah, coach, they would say, yeah, scholarship as long as I wanted it. He said, you will go, say, a Savannah State is still interested. I said, yeah, Coach, David, say, yeah,

Starting point is 01:08:25 I've scholarship as long as I wanted it. He said, you're gonna go to Savannah State and you're gonna go for a year. And if you don't like it, you can say, hey, I went and it wasn't for me. I went and the rest is they say history. So when I'm getting going to the league, he says, this is what you need to do,

Starting point is 01:08:40 this is how you need to prepare. He says, now, John L, we're gonna come to you one day. He said, you're going to need to know what to do and you're going to need to make plays for him when he does come to you. And so he was always constantly reminding me of things that I needed to do. He believed in me even more so than I believed in myself. I remember he would always tell his friend, he would always, when I was in high school, he said, he better athlete than me. He just done work hard. When I got to college and I would go visit him at the University of South Carolina, he would always say he better athlete than me,

Starting point is 01:09:07 but he didn't work hard enough. And then I was like, man, is he really boosting me up? Or he doesn't really believe that? I was just naturally talented that I could just like, okay, you show me what to do. I'm a visual learner. You show it to me.

Starting point is 01:09:22 Okay, I can do that. And so, and so I was like, man, I think he might believe that I'm more talented. And I was, and now that I look back at it, I've had more God-given ability than he had. He just worked harder than I did. And so once I combined the God-given ability and ability that God gave me,

Starting point is 01:09:40 with my work ethic, and I was like, man, I could really be, and I saw my body transform. And I was like and I was like, man, I could really be and I saw my body transform. And I was like, I was always like in shape, I've always had muscle, I was always with abdup. But not all of a sudden, I'm going from 180 to 190 with abs, to 205 with abs, to 220 with abs. And I was like, yeah, I'm a ride, I'm a ride, now. And so that, I mean, it was,

Starting point is 01:10:07 it's the greatest thing. I just hate, and I tell this people all the time, I would trade my career every dime that I've ever earned to switch places with my brother, cause he deserved to be where I am in the proflict pro football hall of fame. It broke my heart when he told me he was never gonna be able to play the game again.

Starting point is 01:10:29 I played football with my worst sport in high school and the only reason I played because he played and I wanted to be like him. I was a much better basketball player. I was a much better track athlete, but I played football because my brother played. And man, it broke my heart when he said it was over. And it's like man, now I got to continue the sharp legacy.

Starting point is 01:10:48 I got to go places and do things that what he was doing. Because at that time, you know, it was he and Jerry neck and neck. You know, he had won the Triple Crown. He had led the league in receptions three times. He had led the league in receiving yards twice. He led the league in touchdowns twice. And then just like that, his last year, he would call 18 touchdowns, 94 passes over a thousand yards

Starting point is 01:11:10 that never played enough snow at 29. Oh my gosh. It was old. Still in the prime of his career. Just like that, it was over. Still a legendary career though. Yeah, and even in the short turn, the amount of games that he played in.

Starting point is 01:11:22 Is there anything looking back you wish you would have been able to do with him in the NFL? Outside of him, having success. Like as a brother, like two years after he retired, we played Green Bay in the Super Bowl. And so we're doing the interview and I say when we win this game, he didn't know it at the time,

Starting point is 01:11:39 I said I will give him a Marine. And so that was my proud of all the things that I've gifted, and I've gifted a lot of things, you know, I've helped a few college people out of loan the way, you know, that means. That's probably the thing that I'm proud of, of all the gifts that I've given in my life. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:11:56 Give him my brother that first Super Bowl ring, because I've missed the world of me, because it meant more to me to give it to him than it would have ever meant to me for winning it. Did you feel like he was almost just a big of a part of you? Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I don't have the career that I had. Had he not been my older brother, I would not have had the career that I had had not given

Starting point is 01:12:17 me the support. He gave me just enough to make me hungry as you try to go get it. He's three years older than me, but he's two he proceeds me in the NFL. So, you know, he has the M3BMW, hey brother, let me get that, come get it. So I'm driving on campus, HBCU with M3. He has a 930 slant nose porch,

Starting point is 01:12:39 with three with 330 tires on the back, well, come get it. He back, well, come get it. He has big beans, come get it. And I'm like, I got hell this. And say, come get it. So I'm thinking to myself, bro, I won't all of this. And sometimes people like, they look, they's like, what was it like living in a shadow?

Starting point is 01:13:03 I say, I was never in the shadow. I embraced, and I was his little brother, and I wanted to be like him, and I wanted to eclipse what he had done, so I'd never felt overshadowed. And so he knew that if I just give him a little, it's gonna drive him to go get it. So every card that my brother got, I went and got it. For Rory, even though I'm

Starting point is 01:13:26 puttin' the poor house, you know, I'm makin' 200,000. I got 200,000 on the car. I don't know how that works. I don't know how that works. That business, we did not recommend this, but what a- We were talkin' about it on Club Shane, this is how I went broke. Yeah, I went broke it first year in league. Yeah, I've been bailed late. I got a S500, I got a Ferrari, I got a $600,000 crib, and I got a, what I have. A Ford or a blazer, making $325. I stretch it. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:13:56 I'm saying $325, I got a hold of it. I'll tell you what, my brother, when he got to league, he was working with a car dealership, and up in Philly's, and he had just bought an F-150, brand new F-150 and me being me, I totaled the car that I had in college. So I was walking around on campus and he knew I needed a car.

Starting point is 01:14:17 Drives his F-150 down knowing that he was gonna get a dealership car to ride around Philadelphia. Yeah, I forgot. What do I do? I'm like, oh man, I've got this really nice car. I wasn't traveling because I had this kind of hoop-dee that was just getting me to campus and back.

Starting point is 01:14:33 So I take the car within the first 10 hours of me having the vehicle. I go up to Cleveland, you know, visit the boom boom room. When's the strip club came back out of the strip club?. When it's in the strip club, came back out of the strip club. What happened when you left the strip club, Travis? That car was gone.

Starting point is 01:14:49 What happened? Man left the keys in the car. No, no, no, no, no. That's the keys in the car. He didn't tell me there was a spare key in the glove compartment. I had the key. I just didn't lock the car.

Starting point is 01:15:01 First of all, he told me that. The strip has got me. What did you tell me? You told me something that was false. What did you tell me initially? What did you tell me initially? You lied to me initially. Did I lie?

Starting point is 01:15:12 Yes, like always. You always lie. That's my first go-to. Yeah. Hey, initially, and I told the insurance company what he had told me. Right. And the insurance company, now that's not what happened.

Starting point is 01:15:23 They found the car like two months ago, just in a random mall parking lot with no gas in it. Yeah. No broken windows. No nothing. No nothing. They're like, nobody forced the way into this vehicle. It's really.

Starting point is 01:15:34 All right. Well, here and you talk, we got that F-150 back though. We did get it back. We did get back. You also ran it into the ground and it broke down within a couple years after getting back. I don't put that on me, man. I'm putting that on me. That wasn't a part of the story, man.

Starting point is 01:15:48 All right. It didn't last long. You know, here in the way you talk about Sterling, it makes sense that this is how you talk to young players or to talk to current guys like Travis. Like, you know, I think that his impact on you and how you felt. You try to do that to other players. It's very clear. And I just want to say I appreciate you reaching out to Trev. You already know. I'm past it alone. That's what it's supposed to be playing. That's what it's supposed to be. As a former player, an older player in a team,

Starting point is 01:16:14 like, I don't know, I'm just, I'm gonna appreciate it. In every field, whether it's business, whether it's, I'm trying to help anybody be the best version of themselves. And I don't, but a lot of times, like, I've talked to guys, and I don't really tell people who I talk to, because I don't want the guy to think that,

Starting point is 01:16:31 oh, you telling people that you're helping me, you won't break me, but I just feel like, that's not the way it's supposed to be. So I will always ask, I'll say you mind if I mention something, like, oh, no problem. So I'm very conscious, not to say, like, I talk to such and such,

Starting point is 01:16:45 unless you know, I would talk to a Laffer's Gerald and he's like, hey, I don't care. But for the most part, if I talk to a guy, I never mentioned it on air because what we talk about is just between here and I, it's just like sometimes like, do you mind if I mention it? I was like, hey, I reached out to him, told him there's some things that I saw that he was doing that could might help him.

Starting point is 01:17:05 And he's like, he appreciated, he gave me the thumbs up, he's like, he appreciate it. But that's for the most part, that's what I do. I just feel like, you know, it's my job is to give back. It's to help those guys be the best they can possibly be and helpfully when they're in a position and they can help and they can give back, they give back. It doesn't do me any good to have knowledge

Starting point is 01:17:24 that I know can help someone and not share it. Right. I gotta ask this before we get just last week. Okay, go, go. It's all by the way, you're all the way to three Super Bowl teams. Yeah. Out of those three Super Bowl teams,

Starting point is 01:17:35 I'm just gonna pick the two. The Broncos, Ravens, those teams. If they go at it, who's winning? Which team am I on? Ah! Ah! Ah! Well, nah, I don't even know how to. That's settles that. That was the easiest one. was winning. Wish team my mom. But not even out of that.

Starting point is 01:17:49 That's that was the easiest one. All right, there you go. I will say this because that Ravens defense, you can't play defense like they played back then. Right. If you go back and look, they played four playoff games and they gave up three, 10, three, seven. Can't do it anymore.

Starting point is 01:18:08 And now, and the seven came on a kick return. If you go back and look at, it was like, punt, punt, punt, punt, pick, punt, pick, punt, fumble, punt, pick, punt, punt, down. Yeah. Wasn't it like, the first time? I mean, it was not written games of the season they didn't allow a touchdown.

Starting point is 01:18:23 Well, not only are they not allowing touchdowns. They're scoring touchdown Yeah, we were not I mean it was like well I think the thing for them the defense if your quarterback finished the game You can consider you one because they was knocking your quarterback out Wow, they knocked your quarterback out the game. That's fucking football right there Yeah, you bring back that they gave up a a hundred and a half. They tried to, then I don't wanna do this anymore. They gave up a hundred and 65 points in 16 games.

Starting point is 01:18:50 Wait, time I say that again. I, I, I, I, I, they gave up a hundred and 65 points in 16 games. Oh my gosh. Now you do realize, pick sixes, go against their, their, their total. Oh, I didn't know that. Yes.

Starting point is 01:19:03 Okay. Yeah. That's amazing. They gave, they gave up, they gave't know that. Yes. Okay. Yeah. That's amazing. They gave up. They gave up. They gave up. They gave up. If you look at what they actually gave up, they gave up three points to the Broncos in

Starting point is 01:19:14 the playoff game. They gave up 10. They gave up three. They gave up 16 points that defense in four games. That's unreal. I mean, it was unbelievable watching that. I talked about it. One of the highlights of my career,

Starting point is 01:19:26 welcome to NFL moments was blocking and playing against Ray Lewis. Like, I mean, I'll never forget that because I grew up playing linebacker. I always wanted to be. Ray Lewis was like my idol. That's what I wanted to be in life. And to be actually blocking him was crazy.

Starting point is 01:19:41 And I remember watching those Baltimore freaking defenses. It was, it was insane. Yeah. They were so good. Yeah. They literally went to the game, trying to knock your quarterback out. And for the most part, they, they, they did it. They did it. I mean, they had, I think they had like four shutouts that year. They gave up one game. They gave up an opening drive. I think it was the Cleveland. That had like several shutouts. They gave up opening drive. I think it was the Cleveland, they had like several shutouts. They gave up 86 yards and the opening drive. They gave up 15 yards to rest of the game.

Starting point is 01:20:12 15, you imagine how demoralizing that would be. scoring 10 points per year is already demoralizing. I can only give up. I'm gonna give up. We got this half 15. Yeah, we got 15. What? We should just be running quarterback sneak every play.

Starting point is 01:20:25 We'd have more than he is. He mentioned welcome to the league. You have a welcome to the league moment. My first year there, we played the 49ers in the preseason. They had just beat the Broncos, the previews here in the Super Bowl, 55-10. So now I got a chance to see Joe Montana. I see Jerry Rice. Jerry Rice.

Starting point is 01:20:43 I'm like, Matt Rodney lot. I'm like, man, Rodney lot. I'm like, man. I mean, I mean, I see Jerry, the C. Jerry run down the sideline, the C. Joe run down the sideline, the C. Rodney lot. And then later that year, I knew someone with my favorite player growing up to see Ozzy. It was just like to see guys that you saw on television. And then like going out to the Raiders and you see the Raiders and you see our Davis and you see James Garner who was in the rock for file and then you saw the Raider Ritz and the way they had it like you come out the tunnel and the cheerleaders like 40 them just lined up. They didn't design it like that. They didn't Because I would idea that I got it. We get the heads out of the game right now. I got it to be on special team, but I was in the game right? I got in to be on special team, but I was distracted.

Starting point is 01:21:27 That was it. You're seeing guys, and you know, you played the Steelers and you see Joe Green and you see Franco Harris and you see all the grace that you saw, like growing up and you see these guys, although they weren't in uniform, but I did my rookie year, Webster. My Webster was the center for the Chiefs. That's right, he did go to the Chiefs for a couple of years after, yeah, Iron Mike. And he had to sleep, rolled up.

Starting point is 01:21:55 Yeah. And he was jacked. Yeah, yeah, no. Yeah, he was, I mean, that's the best center of all time, probably. Yeah. So, I mean, the guys up there too, but... I mean, the Steelers, I mean, he, Dermani Daw time probably. Yeah. So, what are the guys up there too, bud? I mean, it's still, I mean, it's still as I mean, he, Dermani Dawson.

Starting point is 01:22:06 I know. Stevenson. Yes. Dawson. Stevenson, yep, yep, yep. There's some dogs, so it's hard to give it to one guy. Yeah. But I think, let me put it this way, when I came into the league,

Starting point is 01:22:17 Howard Mudd Institute of One Rule, as the center, it was my job to do it, it was called the Webe Rule. Right. And the Webe Rule was, when the ball gets spotted, and we break this hurdle, you don't walk to the line, you run called the Webby rule. And the Webby rule was, when the ball gets spotted and we break this hurdle, you don't walk down line, you run to the line. And the reason that we did that is because Mike Webster did.

Starting point is 01:22:30 And when you have a rule named after somebody, you want to the good. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, I think him and Jim Otto are the all 100 anniversary team. It makes sense. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:22:42 I think him and Otto. The double eagle. Yeah. Yeah. Let's him and Otto double eagle. Yeah. It fits. Yeah. Let's get to this last section. This is the you don't have to answer it, but we got to ask. Okay.

Starting point is 01:22:52 Okay. First one is previously on this on this show we asked could an average person rush for one yard in the NFL. So we're asking you right here right now. Could Skit Bayless get a single yard in the National Football League? If you gave him. No. I'm not saying because he's average.

Starting point is 01:23:12 Ain't no way they're gonna let him go to y'all. They're gonna go out of there, way. Yes. And I'm not so sure the offensive line is gonna block. So that's what's going to happen with that one. Oh my gosh. This is a better answer. You won a Super Bowl in Raymond James Stadium.

Starting point is 01:23:31 How does that feel? I mean, I mean, I didn't think we'd go to lose. Because I got smoked. Yeah, I didn't like the cannons going off and all that. There was no cannons going off. It's not a good experience. Definitely with no cannons going off for the jazz. I didn't like that one. So who's a better judge for me or you?

Starting point is 01:23:48 You know, you guys swag. I just can't, I got to the party late. I'm gonna give you a do. I'm gonna give you a do. You use swag to get the shoe surges on right now. Yeah, do I want to want me? Why am I not? Nah, you can't get into it with the party.

Starting point is 01:24:00 What the party? What the party? What the party? Yes. You know what the party is? Shoes, he's walking around the mall, What did he do? What did he do? What did he do? What did he do? He's using his shoes. He's walking around the mall, cutting grass. These are the grass cutting 3000. I already know.

Starting point is 01:24:12 Hey, I'll begin your problem. You do the thing. You already know. You did that. Could an NFL player play in the NBA, and vice versa, could an NBA player play in the NFL? Play or be effective? That's a great question.

Starting point is 01:24:28 I would say be effective. Like make a name, make a, make a, make a, make a, my household name. No. No. No. Neither way. Mm-hmm. M-M-M, NBA in the NFL or NFL in the NFL.

Starting point is 01:24:38 I don't know if you've ever been to a, uh, the NBA game, but if you just watched the way to 13, I said the same thing. To watch the 13th guy on the, the way he can shoot the basketball. Time out. He asked a different question. He's saying the same thing. The 13th guy on the way he can shoot the basketball. How many time out? He asked a different question. He's saying the same thing, that I'm saying. No, he's not. He's saying could he be effective?

Starting point is 01:24:52 Could it somebody go in there and not fuck it up? Let's see. All I'm saying is the best ticket in professional sports is courtside on the floor. Okay. Courtside to watch the right. The first time I ever watched that was the was the day I realized Ain't gonna happen now and definitely nobody from the NBA going out there. Oh, no, no, Phil You don't think so this is what I don't know play tight in at Tony O'Gaillights Tony Gonzalez

Starting point is 01:25:17 All these guys play basketball college and see the thing is is that yeah, but you talk about guys that didn't do that Gates and Gonzo played so it was the but you're talking about guys that didn't do that. Gates and Gondzel played, so it was, but you're talking both. Yeah, none of these guys that currently play it now. That's a good point. They play football, maybe it's his high school. So you don't think LeBroc, you go out there and catch a couple of touchdowns? Hell no. Just go, I'm talking about.

Starting point is 01:25:38 He don't know how to get our press. What if they don't press them? They go press them. What if they're, you be foolish, not depressing by the same guy. Because he going jump over the top of you and catch it. His arms are like an eight foot legspan. That's what I'm going't press them. They go press them. What if they're, you be foolish, not to press them by the same way. You got to be going jump over the top of you and catch it. His arms are like an eight foot legs. That's what I'm supposed to do. That's what I'm supposed to do.

Starting point is 01:25:49 Cause you don't know how to use them. You don't know how to use them. I get off breath. You've had legendary guests on Clop Shashite. Who would be your dream guest that you haven't got on yet? I got a few. Prima no Bommal would be one. Oh wow. That'd be a pretty good. Yeah. It's a smooth criminal right there. Denzel Washington would be two. The

Starting point is 01:26:16 rock would be three. It's naming a lot of opa would be. That's damn good list. I mean, God. I don't know that I heard a better list than that I'd say they all sound like yeah, definitely get a Well, I'm that would be that that would be yeah, all right I don't Well, we got one last question from this big guy right here if you could talk to your rookie self What would you what advice would you give you? Sure wish my mom would have waited 10 years.

Starting point is 01:26:46 Ah, you know what? I mean, I, what would I tell myself? I don't know, honestly guys, from the time that I made it, yeah, everything was about football. Yeah. I ate, I slept, I breathed, I talked football. And I think I was terrible at a lot of things

Starting point is 01:27:06 except football. I was terribly being a brother, terribly being a son, I was terribly being a father. I was terrible at being a boyfriend. I was terrible at all of those, but I was a damn good football player. Yeah. Probably I wish I

Starting point is 01:27:28 could Look I would go back if I could tell my rookie self. I would say The way you judge success Because everything that I look at now is judged by success and that's the only thing and so even my relationships now, I am about to be double-nickel in about four months. It's still judge by success. And so I would say, Shannon, everything that you've accomplished doesn't mean anything because you don't have anybody to share it with. That's what I would tell myself. I would do it.

Starting point is 01:28:02 If I would do it over again, I would find that one person, and that's what I would tell myself. I would do it. If I would do it over again, I would find that one person and that's what we do. That's real. Ain't too late. No, no, no, no. It's really not. Yeah, look better than me. I was like, you know, I'm hit.

Starting point is 01:28:18 Yeah, I know. Sure we should. Okay. I like that. Yes. So, as I was showing, I was a little bit show. Okay. I like them. Yes. So this is how we show them a little bit of show. Yeah. All right.

Starting point is 01:28:29 See, you like my brother, but we're like, so I mean, we're similar, but we're so different. Yeah. We're so different. You like, you married, settled out early, him, me. I'm like, look, Shay Shay. He's more talented and more athletic, dresser. A lot of things going for what, yeah, let me, this isn't even one thing, what is Sterling doing now?

Starting point is 01:28:52 Golfing. He's golfing, yeah, he's a golfer. He's a golfer. Yeah, he's a scratch golfer. That's pretty damn good. Yeah, but he plays every day. He's like, he's like, most, I guarantee he practices as much as a tour pro. He's hitting the range, got range, shipping, puttin'.

Starting point is 01:29:12 You can get into it? No, bro. I wrote that, my hobby is the gym. That's what I like to do. I like to work out. Does it give lessons? Cause I can't play golf. No, that's, I mean, for me,

Starting point is 01:29:23 you're gonna have to wait till you're done. That's the thing, you live, you're too tight up here, you gotta be able to be fluid. I know. That's what a quarterback, because they don't really do know upper body, so they fluid, they can do it. They can get the hips around,

Starting point is 01:29:35 they got the movement in the chest, and that is, I did take one lesson, I never take a lesson, so it took a lesson, and the one thing that I took from it, the golf pro said, when you get done, do you plan on losing weight? Yeah. Yeah. He's like, come back when you do that. You definitely got to be small through here. Those tours. All right. Well, that wraps it up for this episode.

Starting point is 01:29:57 New heights. Again, thank you so much to the legend. The legend. Thank you, man. Shane is sharp for coming on club Shayshay. Make sure you subscribe to Club Shayshay on YouTube and follow him on Manunk. And also, listen to Subscribe to Us, wherever you get your podcasts. And click that subscribe button if you're watching on YouTube. And don't forget, our live show is happening Wednesday,

Starting point is 01:30:18 April 26th. Woo-hoo! Any music call? New Heights will be live and in person. So keep following the show to find out how you might be able to snag some tickets. All right now. Once again, new Heights is presented by Wave Sports and entertainment and brought to you by our friends at Fireball.

Starting point is 01:30:35 Followed the show on all social media platforms at New Heights show with 1S. For fun clips throughout the week, they saw our production and crew for always making us look good. And thank you to the 92% and thank you for coming through. I'm blessed. That's for having me all the way. For the evening, man. Till the next time, peace. I love it, man. I love it, man. Bye bye.

New Heights with Jason and Travis Kelce - Shannon Sharpe on Mentoring Travis, Tight End Mt. Rushmore, Playing in Today's NFL & More | EP 35

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