New Heights with Jason and Travis Kelce - Taylor Swift on Reclaiming Her Masters, Wrapping The Eras Tour, and The Life of a Showgirl | NHTV
Episode Date: August 13, 202592%ers, welcome to a very special pre-season episode of New Heights!On today’s episode, we are joined by singer, songwriter, producer, director, and the most requested guest in the history ...of New Heights, Taylor Swift! Taylor joins Travis and Jason to talk about her journey to reclaim her master recordings, what she’s been up to after the record-breaking The Eras Tour, her experience as a member of Chiefs kingdom, and all the details on her new album, The Life of a Showgirl! New Heights will return August 27th to kick off the NFL season. You can also listen to new episodes early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. ...Download the full podcast here:Wondery: https://wondery.app.link/s9hHTgtXpMbApple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-heights/id1643745036Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/1y3SUbFMUSESC1N43tBleK?si=LsuQ4a5MRN6wGMcfVcuynwFollow New Heights on Social Media for all the best moments from the show: https://lnk.to/newheightshowCheck out all the New Heights merch at https://homage.com/newheights See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Transcript
Discussion (0)
All right. Let's get to the part of this show that I think is what everybody is going to be talking about.
Do I get to say it?
Do I get to say the two words?
Yes.
First of all, you could do whatever you want, Taylor.
I don't know.
We're not going to do anything.
This is very much whatever.
I want to work within the framework of the podcast.
I'm a fan of the podcast.
Typically, we would allow the guest to say new news.
Yeah, yeah, I want to do it.
I think Taylor has a little bit of new news.
Welcome back to New Heights, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, 92 percenters.
We missed you.
This is a very special episode of New Heights, a Wondry show.
We are your host.
I'm Travis Kelsey.
This is my big brother, Jason Kelsey, out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio.
University of Cincinnati grad, Sincie.
Oh, baby.
Farrow Head can't come soon enough, baby.
Let's go, Bearcats.
Let's go, baby.
Subscribe on YouTube, Wondry.
Plus, wherever you get your podcast and follow the show on all social media at New Heights
Show with one ask for fun clips throughout the week.
Jason, we got it good.
Why don't you tell the people what we got coming up?
That's right.
92 percenters, you may remember when we said New Heights wasn't coming back until August 27th.
Well, that was a lie.
That was a lie.
And hopefully you can forgive us because we got, as Travis said, we have a very special episode today
that we just simply could not turn down.
That's right.
This is a special preseason episode that we decided to bring to you a little early.
So let's not waste any of their time, Jason.
Let's get right to it.
Do you want to do the honors?
Our guest today is the singer, songwriter, producer, and director from Nashville, Tennessee.
That's bullshit.
She is from Redding, Pennsylvania.
She is the most awarded hardest in the history of the American Music Awards,
Billboard Music Awards, and IHeart Radio Music Awards.
She has 14 Grammy Awards and is the only artist in the history.
to an album of the year four times.
Last December, she wrapped up the Aresour,
which spanned 149 shows across 51 cities.
Five times.
It was the most attended tour of all time.
I'm still going.
Hold on for her last album.
The Torture Poets Department set a record
with 1.76 billion streams globally within the first week alone.
All right.
And that's a fan of that guy on the Chiefs.
She has 19 wins.
two ASC titles and a Super Bowl
90 new presenters
are you ready for it
making your podcast and gave you
the most aggressive guests in the history
of shows Taylor
Swift
that intro
Jason
oh my god
I've seen this before he's left his body
no that was so good
thank you
I tried to thank you for like 47 seconds
for me that was so nice
I'm shaking right now.
I'm shaking.
No, you did a great job.
Take a deep breath, big I take.
Did I get everything?
How much more could we have put in that?
Like I felt like that was.
That was such an amazing intro and also just like, thanks for wearing the merch.
That goes a long way.
Just like immediately makes me feel comfortable just looking deeply into my own eyes.
Okay.
All right.
That's what I was going for.
It's a good t-shirt.
Well, thanks for having me.
This is my first podcast.
This is amazing.
Thank you for coming on.
What took you so long to jump on?
podcast. You know what? I just, I was waiting for you guys to invite me. This is my favorite
podcast. So we've already been over this. You're a big fan of the show. You're a 92% or what are
your favorite segments that you hear Travis and I go into on a routinely basis? I like new news
just because of the screaming. Like I hear him screaming new news from across the house constantly.
It's like my favorite part. Like he'll be like new news, new news. And I'm in the kitchen.
and you're like, no news.
So I love that because of just the bellowing of it.
Like, I love no dumb questions.
That's a banger.
I really like it when you give people advice.
It's kind of my personal favorite.
Do you usually agree with the advice or do you just like listening to it?
I mean, I think that like you guys give such male-centric advice,
which I think is just like just dudes who don't want drama.
Yeah.
Dudes who are trying to avoid the mess.
But sometimes you're going to, like, do a bit and say the messiest thing that they could do, which is funny, too.
So we're going to ask the question, everybody watching the show is currently asking, why are you coming on the show?
Why do you guys? What are you doing? You have so many better things to do with your time.
This podcast has done a lot for me. I owe a lot to this podcast. This podcast got me a boyfriend, ever since Travis decided to use it as his personal dating app about two years ago.
So worked pretty good. Yeah. Hey.
Were his friendship braces?
that good? Did you give the friendship bracelets or was that just on the podcast?
I've never been. I've never seen the original. Yeah, they didn't leave the stadium because I was
butt hurt Jason. He was, he was through a tantrum. He threw a man tantrum. He's out of here. It's so
funny. My plan is ruined. She loves me. She loves me. She loves me. She loves me.
This is so wild. Like, it was such a wild, romantic gesture to just be like, I want to date
you like on i don't know it was at first when i looked at it i was like this dude is that's what
it does when you're on the stage and you perform an arrowhead that's what it did this dude didn't get
a meet and greet he's making it everyone's problem that's what i thought at first and then i was
you come to arrowhead i get to meet you that's the perk of playing for the chiefs you realize he
didn't even reach out to our management i was like when this podcast came out i was like did he
ever reach out to be like in the tents or did we know he was in the building he came with pat
and he thought that because he knows
the elevator lady that
he could talk to her about just getting
down to my desk area. That's how it works. Let's go.
And I got denied. That's how it works in
1973.
The elevator was invented.
But yeah, but yeah, he
really just was like, I know a guy. I can figure this
out. But I actually
when I thought about it, I was like, actually
we live in a day and age where
I'm not a very, I'm not an online person
at all. Not like on social media like
that and like I'm genuinely terrified to open
my DMs.
Smart.
It's just like, it's just like, it's about, I just, there's smoke coming out of my DMs.
I don't want to go near that.
I don't know what you want somebody to go through it.
I'll go through it just because I'll laugh my ass off.
It's like, if you have like 20 million unread DMs, you're just like, ah,
so this kind of felt more like I was in an 80s, John Hughes movie and he was just like
standing outside of my window with the boom box, just being like, I want to date you.
Yeah.
Do you want to go on a day with me?
I made you a friendship place.
Do you want to date me?
Just come outside and meet me.
Just meet me once.
Just give me a chance.
I was like, if this guy isn't crazy, which is a big if, this is sort of what I've been writing songs about wanting to happen to me since I was a teenager.
And I was sitting there at the Airst Tour listening to every single one of those songs.
Like, I know what she wants me to do.
I feel that.
That's exactly what she wants me to do.
She's like, this is just her wish list of like, meet me, please.
Now I'm but hurt.
I'm upset that you didn't meet me
even though you didn't know
I wanted to meet you because I didn't do
any proper logistical planning.
Who plans now it is? Typical Kelsey.
It was wild. It was wild, but it worked.
I'm glad it worked. I'm just
circling back to New Heights to say thank you
for this.
Look at this. I'm the luckiest man in the world.
So, yeah. And thank you to New Heights,
all the editing. Jake, thank you for putting that
on social media and letting it do its course.
Before we move on, how did you know he wasn't crazy?
Because that's the other side of that, right?
Like, a guy goes up there and professes his love for you.
It's either one, it's like, this could be the most romantic thing in the world.
It can also be like, this is.
He is crazy, Jason.
But there's a, there's a right crazy.
Yeah, he's the good kind of crazy.
And I knew that he wasn't crazy the first couple of times that we talked.
I was just like he's, he's truly like, he's truly getting to know me in a way that's very natural,
very pure very normal like also like just the way that he could make me laugh so immediately
um about normal things the like Travis is like he's just a vibe booster in everyone's life
that he's like a human exclamation point like you know he's like when you take a picture
on your phone and you put the like you push the enhanced color button that's like what you do
that's why when I text I just I'm always exclamations I got so many more exclamation points now
but I think it was just like you also you were so you're so non-judgmental about people
and you were not judgmental about the fact that I knew nothing about the world you were in
it was the best you were nice you were so nice I got a clean slate you were like thank you for
asking Jason on our first date I literally I legitimately asked him what it was like when the chiefs
played the Eagles in the Super Bowl and he looked across the field across the line of scrimmage
and saw his brother standing on the other, like, five feet in front of him on the field.
Yeah.
And he was like, he was, and he didn't even, he didn't even look at me.
Like, I now know what an insane question that was.
He was like, actually, I'm on the offense and my brother's on the offense.
And I'm only on the field at the same time as the defense.
I thought everyone was on with the same time.
I thought that the quarterbacks.
I mean, that's how you played it on the playground growing up.
So I understand if you hadn't like.
No, you don't understand.
I thought it was like Jared Goff is here and Josh Allen's here.
And they're going to be like, they blow a whistle and then they go at each other and they're like,
er, and it's like, who's going to win?
That's actually.
I would love to see Jared Goff play some defense.
Let's see Jared Goff on defense.
I've got some ideas.
I've got some thoughts.
Yeah.
I didn't know what a first down was.
I didn't know what the chains were.
I didn't know what a tight end was.
I am forever thankful for you diving into the football world, wholehearted.
Oh my God.
I fell in love with it.
I became obsessed with it.
I became like a person who was running through the halls of my house screaming,
we drafted Xavier Worthy.
And my friends were like, what is who body snatched you?
This is, this is, what do you mean?
We drafted Xavier Worthy.
I forget where I was, but you were the first person to tell me that we drafted the fastest man in the draft.
No, I was screeching.
No, I was screeching.
I couldn't believe it.
it. I was freaking out.
We're talking about like...
I'm like, wait, does she write?
I got to look this up.
I'm like, she, did she get the wrong information here?
Well, yeah, we trade it up.
Yeah.
We're talking about cover two, cover four, cover zero.
Man, cover it.
We're talking, we're learning.
I continue to learn.
Maybe somebody else that even knows what those coverages are.
Yeah, I'm not ready to be an analyst right now.
That's been, yeah.
Give me 16 months.
You're going to pick up on it.
I'm telling you, you would ask some of the best questions.
when we were up in the booth and there's like your desire to learn more but your genuine
excitement around it as well as like your competitiveness she's not fucking around no hey's not
fucking around he's not fucking around reclaiming masters you want to see the soundtrack let's tee it up um one
of uh one of my favorite things this summer was taylor reclaiming her masters um her recording
of her first six albums uh finally uh became hers yeah and uh
You haven't really talked about it.
You made that beautiful post on all your social channels, thanking everyone that made it happen and everything.
But why don't you tell the 92% or how it really felt?
Oh, wow.
So to catch anyone up who doesn't know about this saga, like I signed a record deal when I was 15.
And I always kind of refer to it as I got my music back this summer, but I never owned my music at all.
So traditionally a lot of record deals are set up in a way that artists don't own what's called their master recordings.
Owning your master recordings means that you have complete control and power over distribution, licensing, and essentially the way your legacy is shaped.
It's a huge thing. It's always been a huge thing for me.
Like since I was a teenager, I've been actively saving up money to buy my music back and to ever own it in the first.
place because it's usually the label that owns it. But I've always wanted this to happen. So
it's been sold. My music has been sold a few times. The first time that it was sold, it really
ripped my heart out of my chest. And I told everybody exactly how that felt for me and
what I was going through. And I started basically defiantly re-recording my music because I wanted
to own it. And this was the only way I thought it was ever going to happen. And so I knew she had a
bad kid and she's got she's got a little bit of a bad kid yeah it's not a bad kid that's a
fucking savvy kid that's what that is that's like hey I've been told I've been defined a lot of
times you are defined you're very different it's like I I um insubordinate Travis insubordinate
yeah it's it's I think for me you know that was the closest I ever thought I would get to owning my
music and so re re recording my music it was so exciting to get to have that opportunity but
there was still like, I thought about not owning my music every day. It was something that I
never was. It's like an intrusive thought that I had every day. And so we do the Ares Tour.
After the Ares Tour, I had a meeting with my team and we decided this might be a good time
to approach the current owners of it. The owners of it was a private equity firm called Shamrock Capital.
I knew them to be above board people.
You know, they had been very friendly to us.
What I was looking to do, though, was I wanted to buy my music outright.
I don't want to be in a partnership.
I don't want to own 30% of it.
I want to own all of it.
And you deserve that.
But it was a long shot to think that they would do that, that they would sell that asset to me.
It's a big asset.
It's a huge decision for them to make to sell that to anyone.
including me. I decided that rather than this be like a business conversation, I'm in the
business of human emotion. I would so much rather lead heart first in something like this, because
for me, this is not, oh, I want to, I want to own this asset because if it's returns, because of
it's, you know, because of the dividends that I will receive over the years. This was, I want it because
this is my handwritten diary entries from my whole life. These are the songs I wrote about every
phase of my life. This is my photography, my music videos, most of which I funded, you know,
my artwork, everything that I've ever done is in this catalog. And so rather than send lawyers
or management, like in a big crew, I sent my mom and my brother, who I work with to L.A.
and they um sorry they sat down and they like this happens i don't ever really talk about it because
it's um they sat down with um with shamrock capital and they told them what this meant for me like
this is they told them the whole story of all the times we've tried to buy it all the times it's
fallen through all the times we had gotten plans together and figured out something we thought was
going to work and it didn't at the last minute and so like my mom called
calls me afterwards, she's like, look, you know, they were wonderful. They heard us out. We have no
idea which way they're going to go with this. And so I was like, I get it. I get it. I haven't
gotten my hopes up about this in a decade. And so it was a couple months after the Super Bowl
were in Kansas City. And I get a call from my mom. And she's like, she's like, they're
we we did you got your music and um so sorry that uh this is it's literally been so long
since this happened it's every time i talk about it um she was like you got you got your music and
i just like very dramatically hit the floor for real like honestly just started
bawling my eyes out and i'm just like just just weeping and kind of like unable i was just like
Really? Really? What do you mean? What do you mean? And I'm like, get yourself together, get your shit together. Like, just go tell Travis in a normal way. And I knock on the door. He's playing video games. And I'm trying to say it in a normal way. And I'm just like, oh no. What just happened? What just happened? And he's like, he like puts his headset down. He's like, guys, got to go. And I think you thought something was wrong. And you come up and I'm just like, I got out of my music back. And then just start.
absolutely heaving just deadweight just dead weight dropped had no power in my
likes to support myself and um yeah this changed my life um i can't believe it still every time i think
about it it's like i have to tell the short version to everyone because it is still like this
this will affect the rest of my life as i think about this every day now but instead of it being like
an intrusive thought that hurts me. It's, I can't believe this happened. Like, how lucky am I?
How grateful am I? I'm so grateful to, like, the artists that helped me with my re-records.
Because when I did my re-records, I started doing those in 2021. And a lot of, like, most of the
industry trades were like, this is a bad idea. This is her sort of derailing her career in a way.
Nobody's interested in you doing the same album twice. Fans are not going to be engaged with this.
this is not going to go well for her.
Somebody knew though.
And it was like I still was able to like reach out to friends of mine like like
Phoebe Bridgers, Keith Urban, Marin Morris, Chris Stapleton, you know, Haley Williams from Paramore,
fallout boy, like all these absolutely incredible artists that like shape who I am as an artist.
And they like agreed to be a part of the re-records.
And I like, you know, I one of the only people I told before.
this happened was like I called Phoebe Bridgers and I was just like and she's like I think
you just did you just say what I think you said and so this has just been like it was just I'm so
grateful for it it's it's just unbelievable and I was so happy you were there when that happened I mean
I was because I could not stand yeah I mean I started crying too you know I'm a crying I was I was just
so happy for you because I've seen what I've seen how you make music
I've seen how you make these videos,
I've seen the effort and the focus and the strategy behind
what just one album in Torture Poets Department and in Fortnite.
And I was blown away that you had been doing this your entire life.
And for, you know, your first six albums,
you weren't given the rights to all of that.
And I know what that looked like.
And I know how much it burns you that, that you didn't have that,
and you didn't have your creation.
creation. And I just, I think doing it the right way, creating the fan base that you did the right
way and, um, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, you, you were
eventually going to get it back somehow, some way because of you, um, always doing things, uh,
with the right intentions, so. Thanks. So how, how, I guess how does music owners, this is so
crazy to me. So you wrote these songs, you sang these songs, you put everything into them. And don't
you're talking wrong. There's publishing companies of people that support artists out there, but
yeah, how does ownership of music even work? Like when you recorded these songs when you were
16, right? Is that like you're the singer down to us 90%? The singer gets a certain portion.
The, uh, the artist gets us or the songwriter gets a certain portion and then the
publishing company gets a certain portion. Okay. So this is, that's a great question. And there's
two main categories that we're talking about here. So good. I don't even know what you just asked. Go ahead.
So master recordings is the actual recording.
Yes.
It's the actual vocal, band, production, mixing, mastering, that actual thing.
Yes.
Mine also included my album artwork, my music videos, everything that went along with any era of music that I had done for my first six albums.
Got every era.
So then there's also, then there's another category, which is publishing.
I own my publishing, which is why, you know, I have control over, you know, if my song is
used in a film, and I, and I wanted them to use Taylor's version instead of the original
version, I, the songwriter, can decide that.
Got it.
Okay.
You know, and so it's like I basically, I've always been very lucky because my publishing
was protected.
A lot of artists have, have their publishing sold away from them or, you know,
They sell their publishing and I, you know, and a lot of artists, it may not be important to them.
It was always important for me.
The publishing aspect of it has always been something I've had firmly in place, which is great
because my songwriting is the core of why I do this, why I love it so much, and what I think
has made anything happen in my career at all.
Great of a songwriter of all time.
That's very nice of you to say that.
It's like, says her boyfriend.
Says a lot of people.
Basically, then you have the master recordings side of.
things. Now, this is a discussion that was not really brought up amongst the artist communities,
especially not with fans. This was all kind of industry-centric and kind of boring contract stuff
that, like, fans were not speaking about. And so one thing that I think is really great that has
come about because of this is that I have so many new artists come up to me now and say,
hey, I didn't even know this was a thing.
And when I went to go and negotiate for my record deal,
I negotiated to have my master's revert back to me
after a certain amount of years
or that I own them outright.
And it's not for everyone.
Not everyone cares about this.
Artist to artists, artists have different priorities.
Some artists sell off all their masters
because everyone's allowed to have their own priorities.
What I wanted, though, is that
if I were to put the information out about what I went through,
at least it gets artists talking about this
to decide whether this is a priority for them
because you can't know if it's a priority for you
unless you know what has come before you
and what has happened.
And so the master recordings thing,
that's your actual ownership of your recordings.
To put it in perspective,
if I never would have been able to buy back my music,
one day someone else would be leaving all of my music
from my first six albums to their kids and their will.
Right.
yeah and you think about it like that it's like i thought of it i made it i recorded it i paid for
most of those music videos you know i wanted an opportunity to to buy that back and that was important
to me you feel like they're yours they should be yours yeah exactly do you think it was easier
for you to do one because you're i mean just you're talking about this you're so aware of the
business side of this and the legal ram of like you're more aware than i think probably most artists are
But being a
It's crazy.
Being a songwriter.
That's her boyfriend.
Smartest woman in the world.
You being the songwriter, being the singer, owning no publishing rights, being able to
re-record songs, that gave you leverage and able to make this move, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
So that was.
And also, you know, in my contract, they didn't put a clause in that said I couldn't
re-record because nobody was doing it.
and nobody thought that was a good idea.
Right.
So, and also, like, who would be that stubborn?
Like, who would be, who would be that petty?
This badass kid over here.
They would record every single thing over and over again.
What was your favorite one to revisit?
Well, not just that, hold on, Bill, but not just that.
Who has a fan base that's going to listen to the same album twice in a row?
It's a good point, Jason.
It's a good point.
Like, honestly, and this is where they missed it, you had this die-hard community.
I'll listen to that one too.
That's the thing.
You sold a story with the second time you released this album, right?
And the fans got behind that narrative.
And they're like, screw the first album.
We're rolling with the re-recorded album because we're supporting the artists.
They were like, we ride at dawn.
And it was amazing because, you know, they're the reason why the re-records worked out.
They're the reason I was able to purchase my music back because they came to the Ares tour.
and basically they're the reason why any of this worked out
and I also want to note that like the other people who are like
we ride at dawn my live band they played on all the re-records
it's like you want to know why they sound so perfect on the Ares tour
they played on all those records like their session musicians too
and that's how good they are and I'm so impressed just by their
and their dexterity as musicians to be able to do that so convincingly because
there are actually some there's the Taylor's version's one I kind of refer a lot of that
stuff I think it sounds incredible but I'm happy to have all of it so that leads me to the
next question today now that you own all of it you have the re-recordings you have the
original recordings what should we listen to like what do I do I roll what doesn't
matter you're just like whatever you guys want yeah it's it's
really whatever you guys want. Because I love both of them. I would not have put out the re-records
if I didn't think that they held up or were better. I think a lot of the vocals I did on the
re-records are better than the originals. But it's like if you found a nostalgia in the
originals and that was what you were listening to when you were 12 years old bopping around in
your bedroom, go crazy. Yeah. We got them all. I'm going to start doing comparisons. That's what
I got to do. I just got to start doing comparisons. You're going to listen to every beat.
You're certainly, it's not mandatory, Jason. I mean, that sounds like a good.
the time? I'll say this. There's a few good
playlist out there that have a mixture of them all.
You've been streaming? Yes. Thank you.
I've been streaming for about two years now. Oh,
that's fantastic. Thank you so much. That's why we got that
spike in the 35-year-old male demographic.
Yes, that 1.7 billion.
That was at least 1 billion.
We have one IP address from one iPhone that continually
is listening to this phone.
Did you have a favorite album that you re-recorded that
Like, are there different eras that you liked recording more re-recording?
I really liked them all, but I think Red was very special.
There were songs that I called From the Vault songs, and there was one, which I think is
maybe my favorite song I've ever written called All Too Well, The Ten Minute Version,
where I unearthed.
There were originally so many more verses in that song than ended up being on the album
that I had put out when I originally put out red.
I made the glorious, fortuitous mistake of saying that to my fans in an interview.
You know what those words mean.
I love it.
You're so handsome.
So basically, I said that in an interview to my fans, and they just, like, hung on to it.
They were like, where's the 10-minute version?
Give us the 10-minute version.
And when it came time to doing Taylor's version and re-recorded the album,
I went back in, found the verses,
restructured the song to the way that it pretty much was when I had originally written it,
put them back in.
And that song is one of my favorite things I've ever done.
And it was, when we're on the ERIS tour,
I'm watching people just like cathartically scream this song to the point where I'm like,
Do you need to go to the hospital?
Like, it was so passionate the fan response to that song at the Ares Tour.
And I remember thinking so many times, like, what if this never happened?
Like, what if I never had to record this?
Oh, it's one of the most iconic parts of that tour.
It was so fun.
And so, like, yeah, it really did make me fall back in love with that album specifically.
I have a song with Phoebe Bridgers that I really love on that, you know, from the vault.
Chris Stapleton was a part of it as well.
And I just, I think that one, I've always loved Fearless in 1989 in a very pure way.
But Red, I've kind of gone back and forth over the years and been like, you know, like that re-recording, it made me just be like, oh, God, I love that album.
I have no complicated feelings about that.
I wouldn't have done anything different.
Maybe except to include the original verses the first time.
Well, let's, we just talked about the different eras a little bit.
Let's talk about perhaps the most daunting thing that any artist has ever taken on, which is the heiress tour.
Oh, my God.
You finally finished it up last December in Vancouver.
I don't know.
What did it feel like to wrap it up?
What does it feel like now?
Like not touring and being on a jet every day, basically trying to go from country to country.
Yeah.
I mean, it feels great, Jason, to be honest.
I'm not going to lie to you.
You don't miss it?
I miss it.
I do miss it, but it's like it was perfect for what it was.
Do you know what I mean?
And it was a lot of, it was a lot of physical therapy and it was a lot of like being
in a state of perpetual physical discomfort.
Kind of like when you're in season, you know?
Yeah.
I'm not getting hit by huge 300 pounders, but the heels.
No, when I saw the recovery station in the hotel room after, with the toe spacers, I got an acupuncture in that.
I'm telling you, dude, the similarities were crazy.
I'm like, oh my gosh, she does more than I do.
We're like comparing physical therapy stories, like recovery stuff.
Have you ever tried taping your angles?
We related on how much.
The big angle tape guy.
Yeah, I miss it because I missed the fans and I missed that connection.
But at the same time, it was so special.
It was like the most formative time of my life.
I learned so much about about how far I can push myself.
And if I set a goal, you know, making that a three and a half hour show in the beginning of the tour,
it's like you can't like be sick one day and then decide tonight it's going to be two and a half hours.
Right.
And it's really just like prioritizing the fans experience before anything else.
I can do it with a broken heart.
Yeah.
Don't get me started.
Or like, dude.
Don't you get me started.
Fine.
Or like stomach flu or like just like aching feet or blisters or whatever.
Like it's, it just was.
Which she had all of this going through.
Usually all at the same time.
Going into her fourth show.
Yeah.
And it's just, it was kind of the coolest thing in the world because when we were putting
together this tour, I had some really lofty goals I wanted to reach conceptually because
I wanted to show, I wanted.
to show fans, and especially younger fans, visuals and sort of performance art references
that were really important to me as a kid and what inspired me to want to do this, right?
So, like, I wanted to put elements of musical theater, Broadway, ballet, you know,
scenery that you would see in an opera, kind of...
Who thinks like this?
I watched the whole tour.
I just thought it was amazing.
I didn't know this.
But that's exactly it.
I wanted it to be references that I thought were really high concept and really high value for fans
and for them to see things they hadn't necessarily seen before all in one concert.
But I wanted to do it at the highest intensity, rapid fire, you're seeing something new
every 15 to 30 seconds.
And so it feels like you're scrolling in an algorithm, right?
And when I heard reports of.
people saying that they got actual amnesia after the concerts, I was like, oh, I think we did
it.
Yeah.
I think we did it.
Nailed it.
That's genuine.
I wasn't even shooting for that goal when they're like, I saw so many things.
And I experienced a state of euphoria that I now don't remember what happened to me.
I was like, oh, my God.
All I remember is that she didn't want to meet me.
That's it.
That's it.
That's all me.
That's all he got about
And as much as you
And I've told you this
As much as you want to give New Heights credit
I give the errors to her credit
Yeah
I give the errors to her credit
Because if I would have never gone to that show
And been mesmerized
And just been captivated
Yeah
And then left
With such a desire to want to meet you
I would have never
Went on here
And told everybody how butt hurt I was
Yeah I'd never
Just been so engulfed
In the curiosity of who you
you were.
Oh, that's really, I really have.
One of the best things about that last statement is you didn't even know what the word
engulf meant before like you met Taylor.
Like this is, you've broadened your horizons so much.
It's, we're the perfect.
I'm telling you.
It's so, she makes me so much better.
Thank you for saying that.
Thank you for saying that.
But it's like you see you on the stage and you see how crazy you can get an entire
stadium going.
And then I get you at a room.
And it's like, I've known you forever.
It's like it was just the easiest conversation I ever had.
And it was just so much fun that it just, uh, it, uh, knocked my socks off from what they say.
Knocked your socks off.
Yeah.
Thank you.
That's, I felt the same.
She blew me away.
And I had never, I had never experienced something so mesmerizing on stage and then so real and so
beautiful in person.
Hey.
That's, should I, should I leave?
I'm just going to go away.
Yeah, I think so.
honestly at this point i think everyone should leave i don't know where to go from here now uh what
how many countries did you do the heirs tour in um 47 000 countries jason you just listed that
in the beginning i said 51 cities which i don't know if that's right it was a lot of countries
um what was really fun about all the countries that we went to um is when we first
started dating, he was like, I always wanted to go and really vacation in Europe and see Australia
and, you know, go to Asia. And I was like, well, I got, I got a tour for that, you know, it's coming
up. Oh, nice. You got room for a six, five guy to come hang out? Like, no, that's it. The dimensions
are wild, but we'll make some room. I think we'll have to leave some, some equipment trunks behind.
Thank you for accommodating. The size. But, uh, but, uh, but absolutely.
would be happy to have you. We got to, you know, we got to travel the world and have vacations
and adventures when I wasn't on stage, which was really fun because, like, Europe was so
fun. Australia is amazing. Yeah. Yeah, it was great. And, and that entire part of our lives,
like, I was on tour for so long, and now I finally am not on tour. And it's, it's kind of great
because I'm getting my hobbies back.
Like when I was on tour, all I had the bandwidth for was, what's the acoustic mashup this week?
What, how do I say welcome to the heiress tour in Portuguese?
You know, that was the only thing taking up my brain space.
And now it's, uh, it's been so fun to see what Taylor actually gets into around the house.
It's like, I'd say all my hobbies could be categorized as like hobbies you could
have had in the 1700s you know like I get on my granny shit you enjoy doing all of these homey
things that's basically what you're saying yeah I like to sew I specialize as you know in
in children's purses and baby blankets I make two things I know that very well um I love to paint
I love to cook I have a different baking obsession every six months I have the luckiest man
in the world. Right now, we're, uh, we're very deep in a sourdough obsession that has taken
up for my life. Oh, I am aware. Yeah. And I'm very deep in it now. You've got me deep in this.
I'm lucky. I'm, I'm working as, as much as I am and running as much as I am because I am,
I am getting the caloric intake. Yeah, he, he asked me to send him two loaves of sourdough at training
camp. I'm like, I'm like wrapping sourdough loaves in like, like, saran wrap or whatever, like,
Like, cling film.
The sourdose taken over my life in a huge way.
I'm really talking about bread 60% of the time now.
It's become a huge, huge factor.
I mean, and she's getting good with making all these different versions of it.
Oh, yeah.
My favorite one was probably, I mean, the regular sourdough is one of my favorites, but the blueberry.
Yeah, we do.
There's a blueberry lemon.
There's cinnamon swirl.
cinnamon raisin
and this one I've been workshopping
for the girls because they love everything rainbow
fun fetti sourdough
oh my gosh that's gonna blow their mind
no it will because they love sprinkles
like we put you know we put sprinkles in
everything when we hang out
it's really
yeah she's a loafer for life now
yeah and it's it's gotten
it's gotten pretty crazy over here
I'm just like always like baking bread
and texting my friends and being like
can I send you
some bread. I need some feedback. Do you like this one better than you liked the other one?
I did the rise a little differently. I'm on like sourdough blogs. There's a whole there's a whole
community of us and I didn't know it. Oh my gosh. This is an underworld. The amount of people hoping that
you're on their blog. Oh, I'm on your blog. Girl, I'm on your blog. But it's like I just didn't know
this. There's people like me out there and this is where the internet is.
good. This is where the internet is a good place where you can curate a reality where like
all I really use the internet for is sourdough and when Travis shows me videos of otters on his
Instagram algorithm. I want, it's an interesting animal. I want a wild otter so bad. I just
want to like find these little creatures. Yeah, he doesn't, but he wants why a wild one? Why wouldn't
you? Because it's all, aren't they all wild? Oh no, there's domestic. There's domestic. He wants
This one specifically whose life he saved, who knows that he saved his life.
It's a really specific type of otter he's looking for.
The videos that I watch are somebody just in a canoe.
Yeah, he doesn't want to go up to an otter and take it from its mother.
He wants to see an otter, and the otter's like, my paws caught in a shell.
And he's like, I got you.
And then the otter's like, thank you forever with its little paws.
And then it swims up.
and then it's and you're kayaking and it's like doing this to you like that's what he wants and
I want it to honestly who doesn't I mean who doesn't yeah right yeah so do otters eat bread can we
get a shower dough eating otter that might we're gonna figure we're gonna figure that I don't know if they
do um they're probably but yeah we had discussed maybe like carrying around cans of sardines
just in case we run into one nice it's it's it's better in principle than it is in practice
easier to conceptualize.
It seems pretty easy, though.
You just got to go canoeing.
Which is also easier in principle than it is in practice for us in terms of just the weight balance.
I'm on the hunt.
I'm on the hunt for a friend.
Yeah.
Stuff you didn't know you needed to know, right?
Jason.
I mean, I love otters.
This is what life after heirs tour is, though, Jason.
You got to, it's so crazy.
I'm retired.
I am all in on this.
I want to bake.
I just don't have the planning behind it.
Taylor's a planner and she's going to have the sourdough alive.
We're not going to keep a sourdough alive.
I've folded.
What is it?
What's the?
He's actually done it.
He's actually done it.
Yeah, I've made a loaf.
You've had one of my loaves.
He's done all of it.
Like we've set it up where it's like I've got a station and he's got a station and he's done
all of it.
So he's actually baked too.
I've stretched and folded before.
Yeah.
But there's just like something.
I've weighed all the floor.
No, his was actually, his rose higher than mine.
His was more delicious.
than mine it's like it's also you know no directions over here jason i get into the no chance jason
you've had it and you said you loved it i'm not saying it's not good but it's no way as good as
taylor's that's not true i'm telling you if you took like two chunks and you sent it off to the lab
there's going to be so many more germs and microbes and traffic oh my god oh ew the the bacteria
count what is the fungus in this that's on this one uh no
That's the sour, Jason.
That's the sour.
Why is their chest hair in it?
How did you?
Yeah.
There's like chest.
The apron's too low.
There's like chest hair and his.
There's cat hair in mine.
It's just like both of these are completely inedible.
But it's crazy how you can, how many puns you can make.
Because I do the whole, I got bread bags and I got labels.
And so it's, you can really go for it with the puns.
you go are you ready for it are you ready for flower song is the slamming screen door that's horrible
um um um it's a loaf story baby just say yeast just say yeast yeah uh what's what's what's
I'm doing it's a loaf story she said dough um no it's it's horrible um it's horrible um
Loafing him was bread
It's bad
It's you don't know that song
And that's okay
I love you
It wasn't on the tour
Tour
So we do have this
I did fuck that up
21 countries
Does you learn anything
Throughout the play
Is there anything at the end
of the tour
When you were wrapping up
That you wish you had been doing
the whole time
Is there anything
You would do differently
Now that the entire tour
is wrapped up
No
I
I'm really glad that
I didn't know it would have gone on as long as it did.
I'm glad that I got to, like, actually be prepared for this tour the way that I was.
Because, you know, in previous tours, I had noticed that I would get on the tour and I'd have to, like, get my stamina up throughout the tour.
And by the last quarter of the tour, I'd finally hit my stride stamina-wise.
And I'd be like, oh, I can do this easily every night.
Yeah.
I wanted to be at that point at the beginning of the Erez tour.
So that's why I did so much more training, so much more endurance training and
cardio and stuff that, you know, doesn't come naturally because I'm not an athlete.
So it's like that stuff I have to really force myself to do.
Don't you say that?
I mean, don't you dare say that.
I mean, it's how I don't even, it's not like I say that in a disparaging way.
I don't care at all.
But I just, why do we, why do we take it that way?
It's not like, yeah, I'm like I really, I'm not an athlete and that's fine.
Like I play instruments.
I take it that way because we're undefeated on the beer pong table.
I've seen you throw a football.
No, that's not good.
And you know that's not good.
It does.
No.
It does.
You can.
No.
Spiral?
Yes.
You got to be really.
It's better than me.
Because it's not, there's no spiral.
I don't think I've ever caught anything that's ever been thrown to me, near me, around me.
I've seen it.
You're just disinterested in being an athlete.
That's true.
Can you hit something with a stick?
That's a telltale sign of an athlete.
good with a stick.
Yeah, no, I don't know, Jason.
I've never tried that.
So it's like, we've got to try this out now.
We're going out back after this.
My relationship with sports was like, you know, I grew up in Pennsylvania.
I always heard my dad yelling at the screen watching Eagles games.
That was always the sports sounds that I heard in my house.
However, I was up in my room playing guitar, learning instruments, playing piano.
I was focused on different things.
I was like so laser focused on music.
And that's how I was in school.
Like, I would go to sporting events so that I could sing the national anthem.
Like, everything was a means to an end to get me to get to do music.
I know every halftime show from the Super Bowls, but I don't, I didn't watch the sports.
And so.
Watching the airs tour and seeing that power skip, I knew you were an athlete from the, from the power skip.
That's, you're just saying words.
I know it.
It's one of my favorite parts.
Just telling lives.
Just see you just skipping down that runway.
Just looking like a giraffe.
It's limbs were put on all wrong.
Not everybody can skip, but not everybody can power skip in heels.
That takes athleticism.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
What a unique compliment?
So, yeah, I definitely became obsessed with sports when it came to him.
I'm competitive on his behalf.
But like if you and me are going to go against each other in something athletic, like I'm going to let you win because this to me, like I don't see why.
What did the points even mean if I'm doing it?
I'm a fan of athletics.
and the sports.
If I'm doing the sports,
like I'm throwing like this
because I don't what I don't really care
if it goes where it's supposed to go.
Interesting.
It doesn't bother me.
And when I don't make the catch,
I'm not embarrassed.
That's fine.
She's a good teammate.
So she'll give effort if it's teamed up.
If it's individual sports,
she's not going to care.
But if she needs to be held accountable.
If I'm on his team and we're playing beer pong or something,
like I'm really trying.
You're now you're in.
You're a team sports.
Because this matters to him, right?
Absolutely.
I'm a team sports gal.
Yeah. Put me, put me on an Olympic one person trying to do some stuff, sport. I'm doing this.
Yeah. I don't care. I'm, I'm doing this. I care. Okay. I'm doing this. I care. This care a lot.
We're doing this. We're needing dough. I don't, I don't care. I don't care if this happens. I don't care if this goes here. It's not part of my metrics for my self-worth.
All right. That's probably very healthy. Do you be honest with you? Hey.
You know?
I was like, as long as you're fine with this.
What, no, I'm completely fine with you being an athlete, yeah.
I'm not an athlete.
I'm never going to be.
I think you just missed the whole point.
Yeah.
What?
He sees what he wants to see.
And it bodes well for me.
Do you have a favorite thing from the Ares Tour?
I have a lot of favorite things from the Ares Tour.
I would look out and I would see a lot of bonding happening between generations of people.
Gosh, that's so true.
It was really wonderful.
It was like the most incredible feeling in the world because I can see all that.
I've got LASIC.
I have incredible vision.
Basically, the Ares tour, I think one of my favorite things was when the fans would come up with their own traditions, right?
Oh, so cool.
Because I can plan a stage show that's like, we know exactly what's happening when it's going to happen.
It's very stage managed.
It's a whole production, right?
And I love to plan.
But I also do love surprises.
Like, there's a time during the European, like, of the hei tour, there's a song called Willow where we do a performance where we have these.
It's a very, like, witchy performance.
We have these, like, light up orbs and wearing cloaks and it's all very, woo.
And the fans decided that they were going to bring their own light up orbs.
And by that, I mean balloons that they would blow up in the audience.
Okay.
And then they would light, they would use their phone light behind it and create a light up orb.
when I tell you I looked out, yeah, or a glow stick, whatever, like they would figure out ways to
illuminate them themselves. And it was insane to look out and see spontaneously, thousands of these
orbs just go up. And I'd just be like, I don't even know who organized this. Was there a group
text? How did you guys even do this? It was so special. It felt like we were all part of something
together in a way
that couldn't be planned. And there's, as much as
I love and relish in planning,
it was really fun that they would do things to
sort of delight me every once in a while. They had
little chance. They had all these traditions. By the end
of the tour, it was like Rocky Horror Picture
Show, where they have their own
choreography. Literally. Right.
It was, I remember being in Gelsenkirken,
Germany. And you know what?
What did you just say?
Gelsenkirken. Love is him learning
that. Yeah. That's her actual, that's a city?
He came to Gelsenkirken.
I think that's how you said.
I've never heard of this.
If you say with a German accent,
it probably sounds more like the actual city,
but my American accent is Gelsen Gerskin.
Gelsen Jirken.
And I remember seeing that part of the show,
and they were literally doing circles
and like putting the orbs up in the air
and passing them to each other.
Like they were performing.
It was so beautiful.
It was crazy.
They were so committed.
I've never played for crowds that were as committed.
Yeah.
So I think I loved the event of it.
Like I'm always,
I'm always trying to figure out how to make music into more of an event, right?
How do we make it romantic?
How do we make it something that people experience together?
And, you know, that's why I love vinyl.
That's why I love, you know, putting so much into the tour or a music video or events or
activities for them to do or Easter eggs or little puzzles for them to solve.
Like, it's gotten to the point where it's just like it's a little bit, people are like,
The Easter eggs thing is getting a little Zodiac killer at this point.
I'm like, as long as they like it, you know.
How do you go about like knowing how to do an Easter egg?
I don't even know.
Like, what does that process start?
Are you like?
Well, I have some parameters.
What is the art of the Easter egg?
The art of the Easter egg is it.
There's, there's do's and don'ts, right?
Like, I'm never going to plant an Easter egg that ties back to my personal life.
It's always going to be towards music or a musical.
Something I'm coming up with, something I have coming up, a plan I have coming together,
something that you don't know I'm saying for a specific reason that you'll hear later and you'll go back and be like,
oh, my God.
I think my favorite one of those was I was given an honorary doctorate from NYU and I made the commencement speech.
And I put so many lyrical Easter eggs in that speech that when the Midnight's album came out after that, the fans were like, the whole speech was an Easter egg.
Yeah.
And that's for me, that's really fun because they find it fun.
For sure.
And also just I love numerology.
I love math stuff.
I love dates.
I love certain.
I just stuff like I find really fun.
and you know we i want easter eggs to be a certain thing where like if you are a part of
the fandom and you want to experience like music in a normal way then then you don't even
see these you don't even care what that thing is above that doorway in under that dimly lit
flickering light over there that's upside down backwards in braille i you don't you don't
need to know what that is i love this yeah but if you want if you want to look at that
but if you do
then it's there
do you know what I mean
like if you know you know
you know oh yeah
then you know what's then you know
let's talk about something I don't know
what is numerology you threw that phrase out there
like that's a comment what is numerology
do you don't know what numerology is
I'm assuming something with numbers
yeah like I'm 87 and she's 13
yeah literally it's that simple
just numbers and 100
yeah 13 plus 87 equals 100
that's numerology
like numbers numbers that have a specific significance like yeah exactly like it's yeah
do you not keep it 100 ever i'm trying to i'm i'm i think attempt to
it's crazy that you don't what numbers do i have you're just admitting that like that
Kylie i don't know how to do this it's okay it's not for everyone my favorite number's 13 though
it always has been Travis i know and that's part of the numerology of why we're dating okay
part of it.
Okay.
It's been in my life.
Travis,
Travis likes people that like the number 13.
Yeah.
What is liking the number 13 say about us, though?
It says that we're family in, in trickadectophilia, I think it is, is the obsession with
No, man.
It's every day, dude.
This is every day.
That's a real thing.
You know what that means.
This is every day.
He knows what this means.
Trichidelfophilia.
So that's the obsession with specifically number 13 or something.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Triskeed.
Trisca decaphobia is when you hate 13.
Trisca Decafelea is when you love it.
Phelia is love.
I don't know why.
I think it was like everybody else was afraid of number 13.
So I'm like, yeah.
That's the phobia.
That's what, okay.
Yeah, you're just being contrarian, which I love.
I love that about you.
All right.
You're just like, you want to do this?
I'm going to do this.
That's exactly how I sound.
Oh, Jason.
Let's get.
Jason.
Jason, Jason.
All right.
Favorite, favorite thing about the airs tour was besides going to it and just being like this amazed at everything.
I think I was on another podcast recently.
Just like all of the songs, everything you just talked about where it changes so much, right?
There's something new every 20, 30 seconds.
It was incredible, the nonstop length of it.
But I will, I'm going to be remissed if I don't say one of the things that I love is watching Travis Kelsey get on the stage.
The man in the tuxedo.
It was so good.
It was so special.
That was like, we were like, that came about because we were just doing, we thought we were doing a bit.
Like we both thought we were just joking.
Because a lot of what we're saying is like inside of a bit and we're laughing the whole time.
And every once in one of us to be like, are you serious?
Like I could be.
I'm, I could be serious.
Are you serious?
Like, I was, I was serious in, and in terrifying fashion.
I was like, yeah.
It was like a one, wouldn't it be funny if kind of thing?
And I would try not to fuck this up.
It was so.
No, the show's perfect.
You don't want to fuck the show up, do you?
But I knew you were going to be down for it.
I knew you were if you wanted to do it.
Like, I was never going to pressure you to do it.
But the fact that when we were talking about it, we were joking, I kind of got, I saw
that little twinkle in your eye where I was like, oh, he wants to do it.
You want me to go on stage?
He wants to do it.
You want me to go on stage?
Yeah, and you got up there.
I don't do it.
You were.
So good.
Every single beat.
His comedic timing is crazy.
And when the lights are bright, he's like, he like slows down time.
Like that's when he.
Well, no, I just black out and hope that it ends out like perfect.
That's, you said, you and I are saying the same thing.
I did.
It's a big blackout.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I rose from that stage and I saw how many people are looking at you.
I was just like.
blackout you looked so good it was so amazing like it was it was one of the loudest if not the loudest
screams i've ever heard on the tour it was insane it really was how many chav you played football
in some of the biggest stadiums you've been in front people have been staring at your whole life
what was that moment like there's nothing like this were you nervous i felt like an aunt
i felt like the smallest piece of life ever like that entire stadium the floor
What are all these people doing on the field?
How are, holy, I didn't know this place felt like this.
Oh my gosh.
What is going on?
I have to pick her up now.
Okay.
Here we go.
Don't drop her.
Don't drop her.
It's so funny that you were actually scared about that.
You could like throw me over a mountain and like climb the mountain and you catch me on the other side.
Football players drop balls all the time.
It's not a hit.
Oh my gosh.
It was so good.
It was London.
It was Wembley Stadium.
It was, those were such special shows.
And we had just, wasn't this the week that I got to watch Jason meet the Royal Family?
It was.
It was.
Yeah.
I knew you were serious when I was like, Jason, do you want to go meet?
And he was like, what do I do with my beer?
Yeah, I watched him have this moment with his beer where he's just like, but I want to take it.
But I know that I probably should not take it.
That's right.
I watched this happen.
And it was kind of the most amazing.
What do I do when I meet?
I like that you picked up on it because that was exactly what's going to my head.
If I don't, like, if I don't have my beer, what do I do with this hand now?
Is it disrespectful to have a beer when you do royalty?
Or am I just like being, being authentic by having the beer?
I would normally have the beer.
Wouldn't they want me to be myself?
I'm watching you say that in your head.
Yep.
And it was fantastic.
I don't know.
I'll always remember that.
I was just like I'll always remember meeting you for the first time, Jason.
Do we need to talk about that?
That time I did hold on to my beer.
You did.
What was, I guess you brought it up.
What was that first impression like?
What was, did you know I was told to be on by misbehavior?
I didn't know what you were told, but I did know that one of the first things I saw was like,
you say to Kylie, I was just shotgunning beers with the Bill's Mafia and I really want to go
through one of the fire tables.
Yep.
I want to jump through it.
I want to jump onto the flaming table.
And she goes, okay.
Can we not do that?
right now and since then I've heard her say that exact thing to your four-year-old
about like mommy I want to throw this pudding on the wall wouldn't that be fun can we not do it
right now that's a that's a common phrase and so I meet you you're exactly as I thought you would
be Kylie is exactly as I thought she would be just like the realist the smartest the coolest the
you're fantastic obviously you know that um and then i swear to god jason you flew through the window at
light speed i've never seen someone so big move so fast it's impressive it's like you know when
you see a cricket and it's here yeah and then it's gone and it's and it's 16 feet that way you're
like did it just jump that way how did it do that and he surprisingly he gets more athletic
the more the more beers i mean it's real i really should have played in the NFL drunk
I think it would have been better.
You know what?
Not no.
At this point, I would never argue with that.
And all of a sudden, like, you're out there in the snow.
You're handing me children through the window.
Like, it's fully.
Not my best moment.
It was.
And like, I think it actually was.
And I'm really grateful.
I was like, you want to see Taylor?
I got you.
Let's go.
We're going.
Whose kid is that, Jason?
Do you know where this kid came from?
Yeah, it was.
I think it was.
was your best moment and I think I'm very lucky to have gotten to see it. I love this like new
world that Travis has shown me because I really, it's so fun. It's so exciting. There's so
much pressure on these players that I didn't, I kind of was like, I've only ever been in music
and been like, you know, seeing that, but the pressure on sports is just such a different type
that I have such a respect for everyone, like everyone I meet on his team. Like everyone I see doing
this. I'm just like, you've been focused on this since you were a kid. And it shows. Well, and I'm sure
there's a lot of relatability there. Anybody trying to be the best of what they do and dedicating their
lives to it. I mean, yeah. Yeah. And I've been, I've been so lucky because I never have gotten to
see what the suite looks like when I play the game. Because they didn't have a camera on it. I never
get to see my friends and family. I never get. So now whenever I make it, I get to see it what it actually
looks like how much fun they're having what you know the type of support that I get and how
crazy it gets so the Vegas Super Bowl there was there was a camera on the suite and when
Nicole scored that touchdown and to see everybody in as we start jumping on each other
people are body slamming each other into other rooms it was so violent it's giving me the chills
like everybody I'm the luckiest guy in the world that video to get everybody going crazy
People went down.
Like, there were, there are people punching each other.
It was like absolute chaos.
And like, I have, I have every memory of that.
Like, every memory of that moment is intact.
But it's just like screaming and thrashing around and trying not to be taken down by this undertow of your friends going absolutely ancient.
I loved every bit of it.
Oh, it was so insane.
I mean, the sweet that is, the Travis Kelsk,
Sweet that has been happening.
What was your first impression of that, of everybody in there?
Who's the MVP of the suite?
Who's the MVP of the suite?
Okay.
So he's got, which is an incredible, like a huge green flag is that Travis has had the
same friends since he's probably four years old.
Yes.
Literally.
And he's incredibly good at maintaining friendships and he's so loyal and his friends are equally
loyal.
And they're just the funniest, most hilarious group of people.
Yeah.
And you want to talk about green flags.
The first game she went to, the Bears game,
she literally went through the front door of the stadium.
Yeah, we walked right in.
Just right in, like, the, like, general admission?
Through general admission, through with the everybody on the bus to the game.
Oh, my gosh.
I was just like, oh, she's just in it.
She's down for the ride.
She's here for, she's here for the fun.
She's like, I'll fucking go, I'll go through the mud.
I'll be a part of Chief's Kingdom.
Like, if this is where we walk in, this is where we walk in.
I don't know what to tell you.
I don't have an alternative.
I'm like, you know, we just played here three months ago.
Yeah.
And we went a different way, but I'm not going to say that.
I'm not going to backseat drive this shit.
What was that like?
What were people doing?
I remember using like Ross was like, Ross is so tall and so and so broad that it's like that, that helps a lot.
And then just you have a lot of other just like big bulky dudes that you're friends with.
Green flag, not threatened by other guys.
That's right.
I was walking in with, I had a hat on and I had a mask on and I'm walking in just in the front
where we're walking in with thousands of people in Arrowhead and nobody, nobody noticed.
Oh my gosh.
There were rumors that we had been seeing each other, but I think people were like, what would
they talk about?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I hinted on the Pat McAfee show that I was going to see if you would be willing to come see me rock
the stage at Arrowhead.
Yeah.
since I've seen you make the stadium so much.
But nobody was like, oh, yeah, we're definitely going to,
we're definitely going to see her there.
And we're going to see her coming in through general admission.
That way this guy landed her.
No chance.
No chance that whole podcast thing worked.
I didn't believe it when you told me.
You manifested it.
I did.
Yes.
You summoned me.
Here I am.
Andy Reid has recently revealed that he was the one who set you guys up.
How true is this revelation by Big Grid?
Whatever Andy Reid says, we're going to stand by.
We're not going to refute anything.
He says it.
Cupid.
That's what happened.
It's all the same.
That's what happened.
He's been friends with my dad.
My dad is the most social man who's ever been born.
Shout out to Scott.
I was about to say who's not friends with Scott?
He's just like, he's just a maniac.
He will make a friend in an airport in 1971, have a five-minute conversation and still be talking
to that dude twice a week now.
But he's like that with everyone he meets.
He's able to have very many, very meaningful relationships, and it's a skill.
It's a talent.
It is.
It is a mind-boggling talent that I have only known him to have.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's a savant.
It is a savant.
Social savant, my dad.
And so he knows Andy and, you know, Andy's been coming to shows for years and stuff like that.
So I've always had like a really positive vibe about Andy Reed.
I didn't really know what, what the sport.
were that he was doing. But I knew that that was my dad's friend, Andy Reid. You knew he was really
I now know he is literally the most iconic legendary coach of all time. And like from the way that
you talk about him, his leadership style is so, I respect it so much. Right. Because I feel like it's
done without like aggression or raising your voice or losing your composure. It's all very composed and
focus. It can happen. He will rip you apart for sure. But like not in a got to be really like
not running the plays he's calling.
Yeah, but that's the thing.
It's like, but it's not done.
It's not overdone, right?
Like if you get it from him, you know you deserve it and you're going to shape up.
Exactly.
That's what I heard from you.
Exactly.
And yeah, there's validity to it.
There's like, there's so, there's such a genuine, like, want to get better that him getting
you to, like, do it the right way is, it's like a disciplinary thing.
It's just like he won't, he wouldn't be doing it unless he saw.
the greatness in you or he saw your ability to get it right and he wouldn't be doing it this way
if it was any other way if that makes sense it does there's a lot of heart yeah there's a there's a
stoicism too which makes the heart when he shows it to you and I think this is what you're kind of
saying Taylor he's so like composed and so like locked in and then all of a sudden when he does
show that little bit of like warmth it's like oh here's that teddy bear I see him yeah he's funny he's cheeky
but it's like everything has a reason like everything is every everything is very like intentional he's like
I feel like he like coaches and lives in a very intentional way which I think is really awesome and
it's just like a great leadership style yeah there's a layer of trust and there's a layer of like
discipline where you you're going to have some fun playing with for him but you're going to know
when you got to flip that switch to be serious and be on point and and do it his way he says it all
the time he's got 51 percent I was like yeah all right whatever you say boss I
I always feel like when you lose your shit, you lose your leadership.
You know?
For sure.
It's just kind of something I've always kind of tried to administer in what I'm doing.
But he's a huge role model for that of how he motivates people and how he does so without
flying off the handle and is just very focused on what the right thing is at the right moment.
You know?
Yep.
So what happened?
So did Andy tell Scott something?
Is that what I'm trying to?
What did Andy say Scott?
I mean, okay.
So when you guys did the.
full send on the podcast. Yes. It was a full send. Um, and he was like, you want to date me? And
everybody heard it. It was the, the shooting your shot heard around the world. Yes.
Basically, everyone who likes you, which is a lot of people started reaching out to everyone
who knows me. There we go. I think it was like, Andy was vouching for you. I think it was my,
my relatives, my cousins were like, please, please, please. He's amazing. There were,
there were friends that were like he's actually an amazing guy like he's so great it would there was a
lot of kind of people whispering in my ear about you and i actually that's not normal yeah it's not
normal there are people just willing to go to bat for you and be like you don't understand this guy's
incredible well andy yeah thank you and scott and scott thank you there we go scott how speaking
to which how's scott doing he's doing good so he is doing incredibly well my dad uh had an interesting
He actually had a quintuple bypass surgery, and that's a really intense surgery.
Yeah.
So it all happened really quick.
He went in, I know he would want me to say this because he really, like, he learned a lot
through this process.
He's had a healthy, perfect EKG every year that he's gone in to get his physicals.
Yeah.
Perfect EKG.
Yeah.
But what found his five hard blockages in his heart was a resting stress test.
So he's been telling all his friends, you need to get the stress test because that's what's
actually preventative.
If you can find that earlier, you don't have to have a bypass surgery.
You can, you can sort out those blockages with stents and things that are a lot less invasive.
So he finds out that he's got these blockages.
They're like, this is, we got to do this like tomorrow.
Yeah.
You shouldn't, like, we don't know how you walked in here, dude.
This is crazy.
So he was, of course, saying to our family, he was like, you guys are busy.
I don't want you guys to have to like come in here like you and Austin are busy like just don't
you don't have to do this like don't come the brave dad the strong dad that's right he he said something
about like when a cat is injured it curls up around a tree and heals itself I was like dad cats don't
have quintuple bypass surgery he tried to relate you're just saying stuff now that doesn't mean anything
to me and so I was like okay I'm not going to come there yeah all right like uh so he wakes up from
surgery and it's it's my mom my brother and me and his best friend and he comes out of surgery and
he was he did like a comedy act a comedy set for like 15 minutes he was the funniest he's ever
been and he's usually funny but he's like he we didn't know how many blockages he had and i was
like dad you had a quintuple bypass you had five it's crazy it's more than we thought and he's like
well you see i come from a very competitive family
And it was kind of wild because it was like, it was very parent child reversal in a lot of ways.
Like my brother and my mom and I were each taking shifts in the ICU and staying with him 24-7.
And I remember when I was a teenager, my parents would always, the big fight we always had is I'd sneak my cell phone into my room and be talking to my best friend Abigail under the covers all night.
And they'd be like, you have a test tomorrow.
You need to rest.
We're taking your phone, whatever.
Yeah.
I'd get to the hospital.
My brother will have done the night shift.
And he's like, he's like, hey, you got to take his phone.
I caught him FaceTiming his friends all night.
He needs his rest.
He needs to be sleeping.
He's facetiming all night.
That's like one of the main things you need is you need that your body to just like cover.
And I'm like, I'm not taking his phone.
He'll get mad.
He's like, I'm not taking his phone.
He's like, I'm not doing it.
My mom's like, I don't want to do it.
My mom.
So we're just like, it's like we've got our teenage son's phone away from him
because he's FaceTiming all night.
He came out of surgery, tried to give guitar picks to.
all the nurses and doctors, but he wasn't wearing pants, didn't have pockets,
hospital gown.
You know, I'm like, I'm having these moments where I'm like, this dude built play sets
and swing sets and cribs for me.
I'm building his like, I'm building his shower chair and his walker and his like bed
that goes like this.
Like, it's just surreal, man.
And you're like, you know, we just all moved in with him for the whole summer pretty much.
and just, you know, because you can't, you can't really walk on your own.
He had a little harness for my dad, just like walking dad on his harness.
And he was like the loveliest patient ever.
He just kept saying thank you over and over again.
So.
Guy was full of life, man.
Yeah.
He was appreciative that he caught it.
He still is.
Yeah.
You know it.
We had the FaceTime with him last time we were together.
And I was like, yeah, he hasn't changed a bit.
This guy is still freaking got the energy going.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, like, Trab was hanging with him the other day, and he was like, so, sweetie, he says he's at 75%.
And if this is 75%, I'm truly terrified of what I'm going to say.
To give you the update, I'm probably at 85% to 90% now.
We still got a month, though.
Yeah.
So my dad's like, new arteries, new me.
My mom, my mom who's got a new knee.
New knee.
There we go.
New knees.
Yeah.
She's doing great.
She's scampering around.
We're not quite at scampering.
yet but she's doing great and yeah this was just like the summer of my parental upgrades like we're
just upgrading the parents making sure that they live to be at least 186 years old huge because they're
two of my best friends and I I just adore them and it was actually one of the most special things that's
ever happened to me like spending all that time with them this summer and and getting to like you you have
those long talks that you don't have when it's like a small concentrated period of time this is
This is when I learned to do the sourdough, right?
My, my parents' friend, Tina sends over a loaf of milk.
Shout out, Tina.
Tina, I love you.
Thank you, Tina.
Sends over, like, the best loaf of bread I've ever had in my life.
To call it bread feels really honestly sort of like,
it's gold.
Sort of like minimizing what this was, right?
It's my day gold.
I'm like, I need to know what, I need to know how to do this.
I go over Tina's house.
She teaches me how to do it.
She gives me some of her starter.
Life is never the same.
All these things are happening in Florida.
Travis is doing his training.
He's like, look at him.
In Florida.
Look at it.
Look at him.
And he's so fast and he can jump so high.
So this is our Florida summer.
That's what it is.
It's a hell of a drug.
We really florida'd it up.
Florida.
Yeah.
No doubt.
All right.
How many people have come up to you guys and talking about or spoken about how much they've
appreciated you being a part of the chiefs and like,
like their daughters all of a sudden being in the sports
because I get it all the time.
Yeah.
I can't imagine how much you guys get it.
How much the game has grown.
It definitely feels like a lot of people say that to us,
which is really kind because there was never a thought in either of our heads that that was
going to be a lot of us.
Yeah, that was a pleasant surprise.
Seeing all the little girls in the stands at games and you can see a proud father right
there standing next to them, it's a, it's definitely been fun to see that, like,
surprise you know i think a lot of like a lot of the the women and girls maybe they maybe they
like watched one game to see me cheer on my boyfriend or whatever but if they if they stayed which
is what people are saying based on the numbers that's because the game is so great and it's
such an amazing interesting thing to learn about i will say it was it was cool to see the comparison
of it all because she the way she runs her her tour her show her like team and everything like
It's very, like, team-friendly.
There are similarities in terms of her athleticism.
Yeah.
What she's doing for three hours.
I was screaming.
I was screaming for 40 seconds during the intro, and I'm out of breath.
That's what I'm saying.
I'm saying, but the preparation it takes to get there.
I got a whole regimen for you.
Okay.
We'll get you on the tour prep.
It'll be great.
Perfect.
The goals that you set for yourself to achieve.
Like, it's very like, there are some similarities that I thought you found, like, I don't
know, like fascinating that you kind of have that same regimen going into stuff. And I thought
that was, that was fun for me to at least see when I saw you on tour and saw how much of a team
you guys were. On paper, like we actually kind of have a very similar job. Like, our job is to
entertain people for three plus hours in NFL stadiums. And it's like, when I'm there, it's called
a dressing room. When Travis is there, it's called a locker room. For me, it's called a rehearsal. For
him it's called a practice. For him, it's called his coach. For me, it's my mom. Yeah. So there will be
time for like game, game versus show, right? I'll be like, baby, how was the show? Game. How was the
rehearsal? The practice. You know, field stage. They're the same thing. We just call them different
things. Yes. Exactly. It was cool to see the comparisons and how kind of, I don't know, both aligned.
And how hard she works in the gym. We've been to the gym.
like numerous times and she works harder than me every time that's not true that's crazy you can
like lift a car okay he's just telling he's just saying that's just that's just that's just
saying words that's just that's one rep that's one rep that's one rep this is what people
can stretch more that's what I can do more yes I've heard about the we've talked about the treadmill
walk in while you're doing the whole show and like all of we can't walk for four hours can what's
last somebody walk for four hours Travis I'm never even tried that I'm not stupid enough to try
something like that you're kidding that my knees would be shredded oh my god so one of one of the other
things that's been crazy to witness is just the immediate attention right like i think you play in the
in the NFL you think on that on the two of us you oh let me yeah yes okay the media attention
on your guys relationship on the amount of people that talk about it constantly the theories that are
out there of which I am probably way too invested in what how do you guys handle all of the noise
and chatter about everything that's going on in both of your lives we we don't really I don't see a
lot of things I'm of the firm belief that like you know if you're basing your kind of if you're
getting your feedback from the internet or from comments and stuff like I just really think that
like anything you put anything you feed your brain it will internalize anything you feed
the internet it will kill yeah i've been in the music industry for 20 years it's pretty hard to hurt
my feelings at this point she's a pro and it took me a little while to be a pro about it i think
i think initially and there's still some like wacko theories from the beginning that i was very like
oh no like how is she handling this i i don't like the last thing i wanted to do is screw this up
so i'm like in my mind is like her being so calm cool collected and so just real and understanding
about everything that's going on really made me grow up real fast in that in that aspect of
things but also i think the fact that you genuinely find a lot of online discourse to be truly
hilarious absolutely and that changes things for me because discourse and truth you know
if he's seeing things and he thinks it's funny and it doesn't even affect his day at all
like that's really completely bled into the way that i metabolize these things it's at a point
where like, I can, something can be about me, like my name can be in the actual headline
and it can still be none of my business.
Like, people can be out here.
People might be out here doing too much.
Just shaking ass.
Doesn't mean I have to do a damn thing.
Yeah.
We live in such a social media moment where a lot of people's identities and, and they get
their feedback from that, right?
Like, and I'm a real constructive criticism guy, like,
give me constructive criticism all day.
I will take it.
Coach me up.
It'll fuel me.
It's helpful, right?
But I have so many, like, friends or acquaintances or people were like, they'll see one
comment they don't like.
And it will ruin their day.
It'll ruin their night.
And I just want to say to them, like, you should think of your energy as if it's expensive,
as if it's like a luxury item.
Not everyone can afford it.
Like, not everyone has invested in you in order.
to be able to have the capital for you to care about this.
Right.
Because like what you spend your energy on, that's the day.
And it's so true.
Right?
Like it doesn't matter where you were.
Like maybe you went to go get coffee today.
Maybe you saw friends today.
If you were obsessing over one thing that you saw, like you literally like saw some guy call
you mid and this, and you can't stop thinking about it.
No, he did not.
You can't stop thinking about it.
Dude, that's the day then.
That's the night then.
And so I just,
I've been able to sort of mediate a really healthy relationship with not seeing a whole lot.
To what you just said, too, and social media expounds all this because everybody knows
if they say one thing, but all of a sudden, if they put Taylor Swift attached to it,
it's going to get a thousand more retweets and likes and hate comments or love comments or whatever.
It's going to stir up tons of controversy.
Totally.
And I get this way all the time where I just recently went into the facility with Cam Juergens
and something was happening like in the social media world that I was like why are people
like upset at this person this is bullshit yada yada and cam just hit me with like are they
really though or did just one person say something because I used to get the same way where I'd
get upset and then it took me like actually nobody really gives a shit about Jason's early
Twitter years oh baby oh my god oh baby he had to get off he had to he had to literally step away
It hit me right between the eyes.
Because he would respond to it.
I wouldn't say everybody, but he wasn't shy of letting people know how he felt on Twitter based off of their comments.
It was honestly, Philadelphia, you guys know this.
It was a treat.
And it's become a treat again now that he's back on because you'll have a friendly conversation.
Well, Twitter used to be like a different thing, right?
Look, you remember Twitter.
You're like I fed a squirrel ate a piece of bread.
Didn't know they ate bread like that.
Straight smashed it.
Now that there's auto correct, I need to get back on.
That's what Twitter used to be, right?
I'm like, I need a pair of scissors to open this, these scissors.
Like, we're just thinking things, right?
It's like a different thing now.
And it's kind of about, like, information is power, I guess, unless all of your
information is geared towards you thinking that everything is about you.
Because, you know, no, not everyone is ever thinking about one person all the time at any point.
It's just like if your algorithm is giving you either criticism,
of yourself or adulation or praise it's you're creating an ecosystem in which you're the centerpiece
of the table and I just don't think that's healthy like that's not the way I want to move through
the world so I do detach from the internet in a huge way like I'm just not I have never I have
had my comments disabled on Instagram for like 10 years now yeah and I don't miss it yeah I found that out
after the airs tour.
Comments were going to be the first way.
Dude, the problem is I get so mad,
I then go and look at all the other comments
and then Twitter just feeds me more.
Dude, you're on like Reddit.
It's like, so we saw just like this.
Boom, boom, boom.
Yeah.
Whereas I'm like, I don't know what this is,
but get it out of my office, it's on fire.
Yeah.
My business is making music and taking care of my fans.
And I have ways of monitoring what they want from me
and how best to entertain them, which is my job.
And everything else, I'm just sort of like, it's not my business.
I have actual business that I need to run.
Can you imagine if we just talked about what people said about our relationship?
Because if we talked about that, that would be all we talked about because there's so much chatter.
It's like we're busy having an actual relationship.
I want to hear sourdough bread puns.
Yeah.
And you will.
and that's a promise.
All right.
Let's get to the part of this show that I think is what everybody is going to be talking about.
Do I get to say it?
Do I get to say the two words, yes?
Well, you, I think we were going to try and this is what I.
You can do whatever you want, Taylor.
I don't want to do whatever you want to review.
This is very much whatever.
I want to work within the framework of the podcast.
I'm a fan of the podcast.
Typically, we would allow the guest to say,
new news. Yeah, yeah, I want to do it. But with Zach Brown, we had another bit that we did.
I don't know if you saw. I don't know if we can get back to this. I've got, I forgot everything
that Zach taught me already. All right, let's just let the expert take care of this.
Okay. I just wanted, I wanted to scream it. Taylor, just Travis style. Do you want to start it or echo it?
I think Taylor has a little bit of new news. New news. Yay. She's a natural. It was as fun as I thought
that was going to be, oh, it was everything, it was everything and more.
We did talk about Easter eggs earlier.
Yeah.
And at the very last heiress tour, you didn't take the lift.
You did not.
You went upstage and exited through an orange door.
Why did you change the ending?
So that's, I'm happy you mentioned that.
I'm going to say, Jason.
Did you see that fans, did you see that the fans noticed this?
Because I was pretty proud of them for noticing that.
They noticed everything.
I just, I was surfing the internet.
and saw something.
Yeah.
So that was,
I was pretty happy
that they noticed that.
I was like,
trained them well.
So basically every night
of the era's tour,
everything happens with the reason
Taylor's a planner.
She's not just a random orange door?
Just eggs everywhere.
What's happening there?
Why is why?
And why?
Anyway,
so I would leave the stage
every night going down the elevator lift.
That's how every single era's show
ended except for one,
except for the last one,
where I exited through a door.
an orange door to be specific and um orange that actually was an easter egg basically the reason
why i chose to exit that way is because i kind of wanted to give a little subliminal hint to the
fans that i may be leaving the eras tour era but i was also entering a new era uh new uh so i wanted
to show you something okay what do we got we got uh
A briefcase?
Yep.
Mint Green with T.S. on it?
Yep.
What's in it?
This is my brand new album.
Ah!
We got T.S.12, baby.
This is my brand new album.
It's called The Life of a Showgirl.
Love it.
It was something that I was working on while I was in Europe on the Ares Corps.
So while you're on tour.
I was working.
I would be on tour.
Unearth did she do this on the tour is still blowing my mind.
I just love it.
I just love it a lot.
I love music.
I would be playing shows.
I'd do like three shows in a row.
I'd have three days off.
I'd fly to Sweden, go back to the tour.
And actually, like, working on this, I was physically exhausted at this point in the tour,
but I was so mentally stimulated and so excited to be creating.
And this is...
And literally living the life of a showgirl.
I was.
I was.
Well, she wrote it.
That's why I said, that's why I called it that.
Nailed it.
So, do you want to see the back cover?
I would love to see all of it, yes.
Back covers where we find the 12 tracks for my 12.
12 tracks.
Bangers.
Okay.
So we got all, so we got track one, the fate of Ophelia.
Okay.
Track two.
Go ahead.
I was going to say, do you know a fate of Ophelia?
I just, I, Hamlet.
I don't want to get Jason all around.
So we can just go through the track.
Okay, okay.
Track two, Elizabeth Taylor.
Okay.
You know who Elizabeth Taylor is?
You better.
I'm just kind of following.
Just kind of following along.
Okay, all right, all right.
Track three, opalite.
Opalite.
You know what opalite is, Jason?
Why, can we stop asking me if I know what things?
Okay, I'm done.
I'm asking Jason things.
She's like, I hate this.
I know a lot about this album and I'm excited.
Track four, father figure.
Father figure.
Track five, eldest daughter.
Track six, ruin the friendship.
Who?
Track seven, actually romantic.
Actually romantic.
Track eight, wish list with two dollar signs as the S's.
Just let me point that out.
There you go.
Flourish.
Track nine, would.
Wood.
Nice.
Track 10, canceled.
But it's in all.
all caps with an exclamation point at the end that's a bagger track 11 honey honey and can you do
drum roll last track track 12 the title track the life of a showgirl featuring Sabrina
Carpenter Sabrina Carpenter that's awesome so that's that is a showgirl that is a showgirl
We got this orange vines here.
And it's orange.
Yeah, it is.
And it's sparkly.
Entering a new era.
Sparkly.
It's very nice.
So what is the significance of the color orange?
Why orange?
I've just always liked it, Jason.
It really feels like, I don't know.
It feels like, it feels like kind of energetically how my life has felt.
And this album is about what was going on behind the scenes in my inner life during this tour,
which was so exuberant and electric and vibrant.
And, you know, one of the things about this record is like,
it's a record I made with my mentor, Max Martin, and Shelbach.
And the three of us have made some of my favorite songs that I've ever done before.
Which ones, if you don't mind me asking.
Well, they were my main collaborators on the Red album.
We did, we are never getting back together.
I knew you were troubled, 22.
Shake it off, blank space.
style wildest dreams oh hell yes
you know ready ready for it so that's the that's the energy we're going with yes i understand why it's
orange now okay so yeah we've made we've made songs that i'm so proud of there's gonna be some
fucking bangers yes i got i'm picking it up dude yeah it's it's like that it's like that and so basically
we've never actually made an album before where they're where it's just the three of us there's no
other collaborators it's just the three of us making a focused album where i mean it's
it felt like it felt like catching lightning in a bottle honestly we hadn't worked together in like
seven or eight years and this feeds this feeds they're just they're just something there's
something about these guys they like they're just geniuses in in different avenues in different ways
and we kind of um i'm going to put it down i've just Travis hold it never like this today's the
first day i've seen it do you know what I mean I'm just like uh some Travis
This is just going to cradle it the whole time.
Don't drop the baby.
I will not drop this baby.
So it's like working with them again was absolutely incredible.
And actually when I was on tour in Stockholm, I had Max Martin come out to the show.
And I was talking to him and I was like, I feel like we could just knock it out of the park if we went back in.
And we did this all in Sweden.
And it was just us three.
Like I want to, I essentially said to him, I want to be as proud of an album as I am of the air.
as tour and for the same reasons, you know?
And he was like, do you understand what kind of pressure that is?
Yeah, that is okay.
I was like, yeah.
Why would you, yeah, we can try.
Let's see your entire career.
Got it.
Yeah, we can do that in one album.
Let's do it.
Well, okay.
So it's like, you know, I spent time in the time that we were off doing different
projects and he and Shelbach were doing different things.
And I was making albums that were a little bit more esoteric, like, folks.
explore this. She's so hot much. She says these big words. You know what esoteric means.
I know. It's for a specific following. Exactly. Exactly. Wait. What? He knows what that means. He
knows what that means. He pretender means for a specific following, like a specific
genre of people. He knows what it means. He's doing, he does like, he does like a pretty, I don't
know what it means. But he knows all the words. And he knows what they mean. And he may not have
read Hamlet, but I explained it to him. Okay. There we go. Don't tell my middle school English
teacher. I didn't do it.
Because I definitely was supposed to.
Spark notes.
It's all right.
I watched the Lion King.
See, he knows what Hamlet is.
Wait, Lion King is based off a Hamlet?
Yes.
Jason, your Reddit searches need to be more focused on relevant things.
We need your relationship with the Internet to be like a little bit pure.
Don't, I got the algorithm.
I got the algorithm.
My relationship with the, I'll send it.
My relationship with the internet is bad.
It's not as bad as you can get.
Yeah.
Sorry.
No, you're fine.
So I was like, I made a few records that were a bit more like specific in their sound or whatever like folklore or evermore.
Those were a little bit more like alt folk kind of leaning and just kind of exploring and trying to challenge myself as a writer.
And I feel like both Max and Shelbach did that too in their own ways going out into the world.
And by the time we came back together, I feel like we had so much more dexterity.
to what we do
and it's almost like
we'd all grown up so much like
Shellback and I were both in our early
20s when we started working together
the three of us and so it was very much like we were
the ingenues and Max was the mentor
and this was the time where it felt like all three
of us in the room were carrying the same weight as creators
and it was really special
it meant the world to me to have this creative experience
where like we knew
that we had to bring the best ideas we've ever
had and I
I know, I also know the pressure I'm putting on this record by saying that,
but I don't care because I love it that much and I'm so proud of it.
And it just comes from like the most infectiously joyful, wild, dramatic place I was in in my life.
And so that effervescence has come through on this record and like, as you said, bangers.
And we were just like, there's no other songs coming.
It's not like with Torture Poets Department, I was like,
here's a data dump of everything I thought, felt a lot of experience in two or three years.
So here's 31 songs.
This is 12.
There's not a 13th.
There's not a 14th.
There's not other ones coming.
This is the record I've been wanting to make for a very long time.
I love it.
I love this so much.
Where do we start?
I don't know where to start.
You gave us a lot of information right there.
I know.
We didn't tell Jason that we were doing this.
I just said like, can I go on the podcast because Brad Pitt did it and I want to do it too.
Jason was like, yes, I mean, we can make that happen.
The request or the ask from either one of us was never going to come.
I don't know why I would never ask you.
I just, I don't know.
Yeah, Brandon still hates me because I never asked you.
But I think this is way better now.
We waited until I had some stuff to say, I think.
There we go.
You know, I was waiting until I had like a sparkly briefcase to bring I needed props.
It took a long time to put that into production.
Well, it is finished.
And do you want to tell everybody when it's coming out?
It comes out October 3rd.
October 3rd.
This album comes out October 3rd.
It's easy to remember.
It's 10-3.
10-3.
Still annoying.
It is also your birthday week.
We got Wyatt October 2nd.
We got you October 5th.
And then we got Mom October 9th.
So this is a good month.
Yeah.
I picked a good month.
It's going to be a good week.
You know, all these.
All these Libras out here.
10-3, 13.
The opal burst stones.
I'm picking up this numerology.
There we go.
There we go.
See, I knew you.
Never not annoying.
Always going to try to force a 13 into the situation.
And this one was right there.
It was just right there.
For the photos, there's a lot more, there are a lot more photos in this.
And there's a poem in this.
And basically, I love the photography so much that I don't want to show it right now because I want to keep some
mystery going um because that's you know just fun to have things for sure still discover but the photos
are done by merton marcus who are two of my favorite photographers the last time and the only time
i worked with them for an album cover shoot was with reputation with that album and i loved what they did
with those photos so i called them up for this one and i'm so happy with the way that the photos
came out for this one and it just basically was like i was so proud of the music and so excited about
this project from a creative standpoint that I was just like all hands on deck we're going all out
this is a full send like I care about this record more than I can even overstate
it's so much fun I mean I understand what she's saying I'm obviously I've I've been fortunate
enough to hear every single song on here so I know they're all 12 bangers um it's a lot more
upbeat and it's a lot more like fun pop like excitement and I think
That's a completely, like, I think it's a complete 180 from a lot of the songs on torture poets for sure.
Oh, yeah.
And it's just-
Life is more upbeat.
Well, that's what I was about to say.
It probably, do you find that your albums mimic everything that's happening in your personal life?
Yeah, definitely.
Your genres that you've done are like so widespreading between like country, pop, and then like it can get, I don't even know, torture poets.
It was like so cathartic, it felt like for you.
probably to write those songs and to release all that.
Definitely.
And it was like I have different goals with different albums.
And Torture Poets Department, my goals were strictly lyrical.
Like I, and I love that.
It felt like every song was a poem.
Oh, yeah.
And I love that album so much from that perspective.
That was strictly what I was trying to accomplish there.
It was just really a full catharsis.
And I loved to embrace the mess of writing from that perspective, of the rawness of that.
this, I have a totally different set of goals.
I always try to do something completely different.
That's what I'm feeling at the moment.
And I was feeling a complete pivot at this point in time.
And I wanted the album to feel the way my life felt.
And this completely matches the way that my life has felt.
And I also wanted it to be just every single song is on this album for hundreds of reasons.
You know, and you couldn't take one out and it'd be the same album.
You couldn't add one and it'd be, it's just right.
And that focus and that kind of discipline with creating an album and keeping the bar really high
is something I've been wanting to do for a very long time.
I tend to love to write lots and lots of music.
So it's a temptation to release lots of music.
Sure.
I wanted to do an album that was so focused on quality and on the theme.
and everything fitting together like a perfect puzzle that these 12 songs for my 12th album
it just I feel like we achieved that and I'm really happy about that so you mentioned a couple
of things there first what is the theme of the album if you would describe it as one like theme if that's
possible I would say it's everything that was going on behind the curtain okay and then what are the
goals you said something like there what would be like your main goals with this album my main goals were
melodies that were so infectious that you're almost angry at it um and lyrics that are just as
vivid but crisp and focused and and completely uh intentional check so it's like i feel like
we actually came together in a really beautiful way the three of us shellback max and i where
we had a conversation about how max was like i loved folklore i loved folklore i love
loved the storytelling on folklore. I don't want that to change. Like, just because we're making
these, like, these infectious anthems, like, I don't want you to leave that behind. And I was like,
I don't think I couldn't if I tried. So at this point, I'm, I got some stuff to say. I'm married
to that kind of writing, you know. And so it was really amazing that we were able to, without doing
too much overthinking.
We were able to get in there.
And it was just
ideas flying. And all
of these ideas were like, we've been
waiting years to come
back together and make this project.
You weren't going to move.
This album is going to make you dance. Do I have to wait until
October 3rd? Yes, you do, Jason.
Yes, damn it. This is unfair. We don't trust you
at all. I mean, honestly,
smart.
I completely get it.
Completely good.
The artwork, how do you settle on a front piece of, like, artwork for an album?
This represents the end of my night.
Okay.
Right?
So, like, when I'm on tour, I have the same day every single day.
It's another reason why we have a very similar life.
His game days are the same days every day.
Right.
His practice days are the same every day.
His meetings is scheduled.
My show days are the same every single day.
I just happen to be in a different city.
Yeah.
And my day ends with me in a bathtub, not usually in.
in a bedazzled dress.
Sure.
Well, it's got to be, it's on the front of an album.
We try to be dressed out.
You know?
Yeah.
I wanted to sort of like glamorize all the different aspects of how that tour felt.
And that's how that felt to like be at the end of the night when all this has gone down.
You won't be able to get to bed till four in the morning after this.
But you had to jump through 50 million hoops in this obstacle course that is your show.
and you did it, you got two more in a row,
but you did it tonight.
That's all the matter.
And the reason I wanted to have it sort of like an offstage moment as the main album cover is because this album isn't really about what happened to be on stage.
It's about what I was going through offstage.
So it's like, you know, I didn't want to have like the lights are bright.
I'm on the stage as the main album cover.
It's just this, this.
This, to me, tells more of what the actual contents lyrically of the album are.
Got it.
Which is the life.
The life of the showgirl.
Not what you're seeing.
It's the life behind everything.
Behind it all.
It's the life beyond the show.
Okay.
Which is fascinating.
Travis, I'm very jealous.
Very jealous that you've heard these songs.
As you should be, Jason.
As you should be.
I think it's very fitting that it's born.
I mean, it looks like a giant sun.
Pull that thing out again?
Like the, it feels like it's going to be full of energy.
Like the record itself.
You have no idea, Jason.
All right.
Look at that thing.
That thing is awesome.
That is so cool.
Very cool.
All right.
Well, congratulations, Taylor.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Everyone, you heard it here first.
You have heard it here first.
October 3rd is the release date of the TS-12,
the life of a showgirl 12 bangers
congratulations taylor i know you've been working on this for a long time
you're going to be moving the entire thank you so much you can preorder it now
you can preorder it now there we go yeah on my website okay i'll be right back guys
you heard it here first folks the life of a show girl is available now you can
preorder it and the official release date is 10 3 that's october 3rd yes so all right we are
going to move to we got
to ask, you don't have to answer.
I know you're familiar with this segment
for anybody listening. This is a segment we
often get to where
our guests, we're going to ask a bunch of
rapid fire questions. They are not obligated to answer.
As a matter of fact, they are free to tell us to
fuck off. If they should choose. Okay, cool.
If you said choose. All right.
All right, now. How do you feel about
Jason telling his kids that cats are poisonous?
It was actually really
a great challenge because as soon
as I got the kids around the cats, it was my goal to prove to them that they weren't
poisonous. And there's no better way to prove that than to just hand them Benjamin, my
who lets humans hold him like he's a baby. And I mean, like my favorite thing ever is just
like when Benny will come up to me and just go, I find Benjamin. I find him. And she's just like
over there, just like laying with him and petting him. And, I mean, like, my favorite thing ever. And
holding him and the cats are so good with kids they're like drag they're just like there's like
meredith is here i'm like yep and you know what she didn't bite you at all did she no she did and if
she did bite you she wouldn't be poisonous they're like that's not what our dad said i'm like well
i heard you're getting a cat oh i heard this very well placed source i will neither confirm
nor deny we'll see if you're getting like a proper cat you're getting like a cat that chases mice
what I have are not that
I think they sit around
there's a chance
there's a happy medium
there's a chance I've been talked into a barn cat
that does not go inside
that will
survive
survive off of rodents in the field
those girls are going to be sneaking that cat
there's no way that cat
I will say this is why I lie to my kids though
is to I want them to be able to be critical thinkers
they need to realize it's absurd to think this
and you handing them Benjamin and then
walking them through critical thinking ability
now all of a sudden they won't believe
something that every moron tells them on the internet
yeah it was really like I know it wasn't helpful for you
but it really like it was helpful for me
my allergies are going to be in severe
I think you love you I don't even know if the allergies are a thing
Jason I think you just I mean I've had an allergy test Taylor
I've had an allergy test.
They tell you everything.
Allegedly.
I'd like to see a copy of it.
Fair enough.
I think that you just like maybe don't like.
I don't.
I mean, I think some cats I get down with.
I always like Flash growing up, the cat that we had.
What did you think of my three cats?
My three perfect little angels.
Well, the only one that would go near me was Benjamin.
Yeah, because the other two consents that you had resting cat hated.
That might be it.
All right.
If you had to choose to bake one thing to show off your baking skills, what would you choose?
Oh, right now, it would be my cinnamon swirl sourdough.
Cinnamon swirl sourdough?
I thought you're going to go pop tarts.
Pop tarts, pop tarts.
It depends on who I'm baking for.
The pop tarts.
God, I just love making pop music and pop tarts.
I love it.
I didn't even put those two together, but that makes a ton of sense.
I've been really experimenting with the flavors there because we got now wild blueberry, raspberry,
strawberry the original and Kylie got me baking the cinnamon sugar you're doing that now
yes well if I may we need an orange pop tart now we need what's a I mean like I'll do it if you
really want me to like with like a marmalade like an orange marmalade in the middle and
an orange orange extract paddington bear I sing pattington bear okay okay no I can get I can get
with this I just didn't see the vision until now and now I think it's kind of genius
you've ruined pop tarts outside of yours just so you know
thank you so much
so much so much so I'm gonna try the cinnamon swirl sourdough though
if you're putting that above pop tarts yeah
yeah I'm gonna send some over it's a banger
perfect all right there's rumor that you played the bear in happy
Gilmore two in the scene where Travis has money put on him
can you confirm or deny this rumor I can deny
like this is this is one of those ones where like Will
send it to each other and be like, hey, do you hear I was the bear?
And there he's like, yeah, you hear we bought a house in Lake Como?
Like, we're just sort of like, at this point, we're just like, of course they think I'm inside
of a bear costume.
Like, I'm honored to be thought of in that context because I loved that movie so much.
I watched it multiple times.
Loved it so much.
Whoever did the bear acting was.
Solid bear.
Exquisite performance.
Bad Bunny and the bear killed that scene.
Yeah.
Bad Bunny.
he absolutely delighted me in that movie.
He was so good.
Would you like a birthday?
He's amazing.
His comedic timing is so good.
There's this one part where they look over where they're like, who did that?
And like, his name is Oscar.
His character's name is Oscar in it.
Yes.
And it's like his brother gets hit by the golf ball and they look over and they're like,
who did that?
Who did that?
And they do, there's a face that bad bunny makes and they do the kind of the like the quick pan in,
the zoom.
And it was just, I was like, who thought of that?
How did they know he could be that?
I was like, I watched it five times.
Benito kills it.
He really kills it.
He's so funny.
He's so good.
But he's also like, no, and I felt so much for this character.
I'm so excited to go to his restaurant.
Like, I thought this was a real man.
I believed this.
Whose idea was arriving to the Erez tour stage via a cleaning cart?
Mine.
That's a weird idea that I, that's my type of weird idea.
Where did that come from?
Well, when you're putting on a first show of a tour like that, you're not just performing for the entire stadium.
You're performing for the entire internet.
And so I wanted to curate and really romanticize the images that they were seeing first.
So I didn't want them to see my first outfit and my first look, which would have given away what the first era was before, you know, when I'm walking up the ramp behind the stage, there's all these fans that are seated behind the stage.
at certain angles where they would have been able to film it,
I didn't want that to be the first thing people saw from the Ares tour.
I wanted it to be the huge lover motif,
and they're surprised and delighted by the fact that lovers,
the first era were doing.
And that's the first time they've seen that Versace body suit all lit up,
like once the lights hit that thing, it's just like, oh, I love that outfit so much.
And so it was really about preserving kind of like the sanctity of a surprise moment, right?
So I kind of thought I might only do it for a night one,
and then I just got attached to it.
I was like, I just, I find this fun.
It's the perfect intro.
It really is.
There's a like weird little side of me that likes sneaking around.
And I think the fans found it funny too.
They're like, what a weirdo.
We've come to see a weirdo in concert.
Why is she doing that?
I don't know.
Why did I make it look like a mop cart?
I don't know, man.
There's just like, so, like, if you can't have fun with the hijinks of this thing,
there's enough stress that goes into this.
If you can't get joy from silly little things like the mop cart, man.
You need to live a little.
You're doing it wrong.
Live a little.
Listen up.
Get into a fake mop cart.
Everyone knows you're in there, but you're in there like, I'm sneaking around.
Nobody knows them in here.
Everyone knows you're in there.
But it's like it's one of those things like I work so hard to try to surprise fans.
And they're like, I don't want to be surprised.
Sometimes they really don't think they want to be surprised.
I want to figure stuff out.
They do.
But then I know, I know that when I can really get them and surprise them, that it was,
it was, it was so worth it.
Because that's what entertainment is, really.
It's just giving people something to escape, to sink their teeth into, to, to, like,
we're world building, you know?
That's what the whole tour was.
Hopefully people never thought that we'd go on this podcast and announce an album.
Like, I was hoping that that's something that the fans would be like, that's from left field.
Like, if we accomplish that, then that's.
She went on with those two idiots to release us.
Things are really getting dark for Taylor.
All right.
We ask all of our guests this.
Yep.
Who, what is your welcome to the NFL moment?
Oh.
Oh.
I'd say it was the first time I stepped on the field,
which would have been when you won the AFC championship.
Baltimore.
The first season that I was with you and it was in Baltimore.
And we're in the sweet.
And he's just won the AFC championship.
We're freaking out.
Everybody's screaming.
And his mom goes, all right, let's go down to the field.
And I was like, what, we're doing, what are we, what do you mean?
What are you talking about?
We're going where?
And she's like, we're going down to the field.
And I was like, did he say that that's okay?
Like, because we hadn't talked about this.
There was no like, there was no like, hey, if I didn't want to jinx.
I didn't want to jinx it.
Yeah, he doesn't, he doesn't jinx anything, which I respect actually.
Like, I'm all about that.
but we hadn't had a conversation about us.
I'm like, is he going to be like,
what are you doing down here, dude?
No, it was, Mama knows best.
Mama knows best.
She knew I wanted you.
And so she was like,
trust me, he wants you there.
And I was like, okay, well, she would know.
And so I'm walking out onto this field,
and it's just like, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God.
This is, it's so, there's so many lights.
We're going into the Super Bowl.
I've never seen this many cameras.
I've never seen this much media in my life, and I've seen a lot of media.
And then the media sees me, and they're like, ah!
And then they just start running at me.
And I'm looking at you and you're, and then you're screaming into the mic because when
there's a mic and there's Travis, like he physically needs to scream into it.
Of course.
All right.
Okay.
That's like, I just so basically, I'm experiencing this whole heightened scenario that I had no
idea five minutes before I was going to be experiencing and it was it's one of my most cherished
memories because I was so proud of you and I was so proud that you came down there to enjoy that
moment it was so magical it was so fun it's like crazy it's crazy to get to see someone you love
work that hard and then have that kind of like euphoric payoff where you're like for sure you did
it like you did it like you did it human exclamation point what do you mean what do you
that's crazy like yeah i had such a great rookie year it was crazy it was a great year what is
a great year what is your welcome to like i don't know if it's like singer like being a pop star
being a performing yeah what is your welcome to the industry moment in in that regard oh my god um man
i never really i actually never really allowed myself
to feel like though you've arrived thing.
Sure.
I've just now started to be able to really be in a moment when I'm in the moment.
That's why I'm so glad that the errors tour happened when I'm an adult, because I was
able to completely and totally soak in these moments.
Well, I'm planning, obviously, what I'm doing next in the show, but like when I'm at the
end of that show and I'm standing there taking it in, that's me 100% present.
But, you know, starting to do this when I was putting up.
my first album, when I was like 16, I was always on to the next plan. And that I get joy in
planning. So it's not like I wasn't happy with that. But I never allowed myself to say, you've arrived,
you've made it. I was always like, how are you getting, how are you going to get to make the next
project? And it was all about, it was all about the, the higher I climbed to more creative
control I had and the more fun I had making stuff. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So it was not the, like the altitude
I was reaching, there was more pressure every step of the way, but I was getting more creative
and freedom every time.
And that is why it felt so much more special to keep working harder to get
it to new levels.
It's not like, oh, like, I can afford to buy this or whatever.
Like it, not to discount that.
But for me, every time I got higher up on a new rung of the ladder, I could make
stuff in a more focused and free and autonomous way.
What else would you want as an artist?
I never really let myself be like, I've made it.
But the Aeros tour, I was like, oh.
this is different like this is not this is nothing like what I've ever experienced before
it was so much better than everything and literally while she's doing that she's still
creating the next thing yeah that's what's crazy to me I love it I love show Sweden live show
Sweden live show Sweden yeah it's it's no I adore what I do I absolutely love it and I love
then taking the songs and writing a treatment for a music video and directing the music video
Like, all of the things that I get to do now, I'm so grateful for the ability to create.
Like, that's still what drives all of it.
Well, us Swifties appreciate your dedication.
We are very grateful for this as well.
Thanks, guys.
All righty.
Do you have any questions for us?
We're kind of out of the questions for this section.
Is there anything you wanted to ask Travis or I?
I mean, you have a, you put Travis on the spot right now.
Yeah.
I know.
Oh, God.
Well, I don't know.
I was wondering how that was.
wax is growing in.
Like, I don't know what I'm going to have to talk to in a couple weeks about it.
And I just feel like it's really important for you to like make sure that those hairs
getting a little itchy, bud.
No,
it's fine.
When you go like,
when you go from fur to,
to no fur at all.
And you can wear us because we got some thick hair.
It's like important to figure out.
Like I mean,
just don't tell us too much.
Are we,
how are we doing?
We're doing good.
We're managing it.
Well, we're not managing it.
That's how we're managing it is we're not managing it.
Okay.
It's fortunate for me.
My hair grows fast.
Yep.
It's coarse.
It's got a texture that was difficult for about a couple weeks, very itchy.
Yep.
That's what I thought.
We've passed that phase now.
Are we going to do it again, do you think?
I don't think so.
And I listen, shout out to the people in downtown Philadelphia.
They did a great job.
You're being wags.
I'm not.
I don't think it's.
It's going to be a recurring bit.
Yeah, it was the best it could have been.
I also don't think I'm going to find myself in a speedo again.
Jason walked into a door that said European wax.
And was treated with the utmost respect in class.
He had to try it in order to know.
That's life, you know.
It feels important that you did it.
And also, because now you know.
Because now you know.
I know what.
I always say that after I make unfortunate.
judgment calls right well now i know now i know had to try it the one thing i didn't try
wasn't great wasn't great wouldn't do it again yep yep right on that note now you know
thank you so much for hopping on oh my gosh all right thank you so much for hopping on
you are the best this has been a blast uh i think kiley
enjoyed being the number one
most viewed episode for her time that she had
this is
told you do that to Kylie
don't do that it's not about Kyle you guys throw
Kylie under the bus you're going to pay for it
why
and Elliot are already doing it find out
that's right and that's a wrap
folks on another episode of New Heights
thank you to our guest Taylor
Swift for joining us on the show
life of the show girl
comes out October 3rd pre-order
is now available on Taylor Swift.com.
Reminder, New Heights will be back to kick off the NFL season, August 27th.
Make sure you're subscribe to the New Heights channel on YouTube
and follow New Heights in the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.
You can listen to new episodes of New Heights early and ad-free right now
by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.
All right now.
Once again, New Heights, a Wondry show.
Follow the show on all social media at New Heights Show with 1S.
And thanks to our production and crew always for your editing skills
and making us look entirely better than what we are.
Taylor got to see this first hand, actually.
Thanks, guys.
It's been great.
And to the 92%ers and to the Swifties.
We love you guys.
We'll see you guys next time.
Bye.
Peace.
There was confetti all over.
Oh, this is like when the cats taste something they don't, that they're confused by.
This is my favorite impression.
This is it?
It's a confused, the cat ate something, it doesn't know what it is.
This is, this, that gets you every time.
Like it gets me every time, man.
I will laugh at that.
I will like fall off the couch laughing at that.
If he'll do it at his, you know.