New Heights with Jason and Travis Kelce - The Real Combine Experience, Blown Interviews & NFL Scouting w/Daniel Jeremiah | New Heights | Ep 30

Episode Date: March 13, 2023

92%ers we are back with the thirtieth episode of New Heights presented by our friends at Fireball and we have an exceptional one for you guys.  In this episode, we are talking about all things NFL Combine. Yes, we know this is the start of tampering season, but with Travis hosting SNL we had to delay the recording on this one a little bit.  We break down how getting invited to the combine actually works (07:10), what kind of training goes into preparing for the on-field drills (10:00) and revisit some of the formal interviews that didn’t go exactly as planned (17:35).  Next, we tell you what to actually look for when you’re watching players do drills (35:50), debate if we should retake the Wonderlic (37:40), and Jason gives us a behind-the-scenes look at what it was like being back at the NFL Combine as a veteran (43:30).  We also have an incredible conversation with former Eagles scout and current NFL Network Draft Analyst, Daniel Jeremiah (45:42). The guys touch on why the Combine still matters (46:20), the players you have to see in person to appreciate (56:55), if Philly will draft a running back (01:02:27), Jason’s actual scouting report (01:09:10), and how Daniel jumped from NFL scouting to media (01:10:57).  As always, watch and listen to new episodes of New Heights with Jason and Travis Kelce every Wednesday & check us out on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik Tok for all the best moments from the show.  Follow New Heights on Social Media: http://hoo.be/newheightshow New Merch: https://homage.com/newheights  Support the Show:   Enjoy the #1 shot in the country responsibly and visit https://www.fireballwhisky.com to find out where you can purchase those little cinnamon delights Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I went around to like shook everybody's hand and I said their name after I shook their hand and I think I was just doing out of nerves And they were like why are you just repeating our names after and I was like, oh, it's just a tool That I use like remember people's names and then they're like, okay What's my name and I was like You got me Welcome back to new heights ladies and gentlemen the juxtaposed show presented by Wave Sports and Entertainment. New heights is a show that shows off our trophies. You like that Nickelodeon back there, don't you?

And then I got the I got that big old Cleveland heights. We heights. You already know either one of us has. All right now. Shout out to the one they gave it to me. We are your host, I'm Travis Kelsey. This is my big brother, Jason Kelsey out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio ironically.

And University of Cincinnati grads, I can proudly say that. New Heights comes to you every single Wednesday, but today we're coming to you on a Monday. So the days might change now that we're out of season, but if you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts At new heights show with 1s on all social media platforms we can communicate with you guys on what exactly is coming up in the future So make sure you click that follow button and Jason what we got coming up

Well, we got a very special episode this one. Tread this one was recorded when I was at the combine While you were preparing for the one of the highlights of your life, Sarah Knight Live. Alright, we're going to talk about all things NFL combine, scouting, how teams build draft boards. And now that it's wrapped, Travis and I will describe what it's like for players to go through that. I know it's a little late, but we were a little busy as we said, the week of the combine, so we're getting to that now.

I had an incredible conversation with NFO Network's own Daniel Jeremiah, also formal Eagle Scout. I don't know if you knew that, Travis. I did not know that. About all things scouting, drafting, and what he thought of me is a prospect coming out, Blitz.

I think it was a real opinion. It seemed like it was authentic, and I trust Daniel. I trust DJ. What do you think of me? What do you think of me? We'll get hear it. I think it was a real opinion. It seemed like it was authentic and I trust Daniel. I trust DJ. What do you think of me? What do you think of me? We'll get to it. Okay.

You're not gonna be happy. All right, anyways, before we get to it, new news. New news. Coming in hot. We are back climbing the ranks and happy to be back for the off season. And, you know, we just want to say thank you.

It's not that the off season is here. Not that the off season. And you know, we just want to say thank you. It's not that the off season is here. Not the off seasons here. Again, just thank you to all of our 92% is out there. Everyone who supported this pot, helped them get to where it's at today. We're looking forward to giving you guys this pod this entire off season. We're going to have some fun. We're going to have some fun, ladies and gentlemen. Now that is the off season, we're going to double down. We're going to try and bring you guys more episodes. We have more time to do that it is the off season, we're gonna double down. We're gonna try and bring you guys more episodes. We have more time to do this. Double-deaf news.

Yeah, we're gonna do everything we can to show you what it's like to be an NFL player in an off season. That's gonna include interviews and content, obviously surrounding the NFL, but it's also gonna include things that happen to some NFL players outside of the NFL. For instance, Travis Kelsey hosting Saturday Night Live. What, That was crazy. Different things you might do out in the

public. Hey, you leave your house, you meet people. Just kind of leave the house. Just kind of get outside, baby. And then we're going to do some things where we we take our game to new heights. We're going to kind of venture into some new worlds hopefully and show you guys exactly what we're talking about eventually, but... Caving season starts in April. Get your boots now. Also, we know today is the day that tampering starts.

This episode was obviously pre-recorded, so we're not going to be able to give any insight to the tampering period, but we will be offering that at a later date. Tampering period has also, has always been a little weird. What do you, it's kind of like, it's kind of like, tampering period again. Tampering period is, you gotta tell the ones that don't know.

So tampering period is your agents are allowed to talk to teams and facilitate deals and make agreements just like for agency, but it's not official yet. So, you can get the ball rolling. I don't know why that got passed. It really doesn't make any sense to me because all the contracts and things end up getting leaked before free agency officially starts on Wednesday. I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why right there.

Yeah, I think they just want to they want a big Facebook creation. Yeah, they want they want it doesn't become Facebook official. They want a Facebook official. Yeah, they want, they want, it doesn't become Facebook official till Wednesday until then it's all just hearsay, but we can't wait to comment on all the free agency. It's gonna be some big moves made, obviously the Eagles. We have a lot of free agents up. So it'll be interesting to see where guys start landing

and getting picked and to see who's getting paid. And love the CTMA is getting paid. One of my favorite things. Love the CTMA is getting paid. We'll favorite things love the ct maize getting paid well find out if air and r i just gonna be a jet i know jets jake uh... are the one the guy who runs all of our social medias uh... if you interact with anything new heights it's it's it's my man jets jake

uh... yeah he's very curious to see if air and rages ends up a jet uh... we're also gonna see if uh... someone pays Lamar jackson and uh... pay that man. I guess we'll find out maybe if I'm playing or not by then. Anyways, who really knows though?

I do. I know. Yeah, I know. What do you know? I know that you're gonna make a decision soon because you love the Eagles and you want to make sure that they know who's coming back. What? I do want them to know. The problem is I have to know myself.

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We got a huge update from our friends over at homage and that we just dropped some brand new merch. We got some merch. We got a huge update from our friends over at homage and that we just dropped some brand new merch. The t-shirts, no dumb questions, which is, FIRE! I can't wait to get my hands on that one and then stamp of the week. You already know what that entails. Take your game to new heights.

So we got those two shirts coming at you hot homage.age.com slash new heights. So if you want to grab those things check out our friends at homage.com slash new heights, baby. Now let's get on to our 12 bold topics. Hey, of the NFL combine, recapping the NFL combine. So excited to see how many topics we actually touched today, but let's start with a little bro back about the NFL combine. We didn't get to touch base last week because a little busy, little busy doing a lot of things and trying to be a whole bunch of different people. All in one sitting is crazy.

Obviously, that being Saturday night live, Jason, you were the first to get drafted and go to the combine. When did you get drafted and go to the combine. When did you know you were headed to the combine? To those of the people that don't know how this happens, how do you remember it happening? I can't remember if the team told me, I definitely didn't open a piece of mail because I didn't open mail in college. I don't know if anybody else did it. What do you still use your, you still use your, you see email. I did for a long time. It's shut, I'd use it for long enough and then it just shut down on me.

Oh, because you weren't taking classes. I think after like 10 years of graduating, they just shut your email off, I guess. I don't know. All right now. It's not working. So yeah, I got a new email, but yeah, I don't know if they email it to you, they mail it to you. I do know that at some point your agent says you're invited to the combine and you're immediately try and select a

Combined training facility. Well, you've probably already selected that in anticipation Have the funds to be able to do that, you know, I mean because it's not free You know, I mean like you're you're typically, you know what I mean? Like you're typically your agents, you're kind of... So age and pace for it usually. Yeah. So the way it works a lot of times, at least for guys that agents think

are going to sign with an NFL team, is they will pay the cost to these trading facilities for the player knowing that they're going to get reimbursed when the player signs a contract. Guys that aren't invited to the combine still end up going and training these facilities because they're still pro days. There's still, there's a lot of guys that get drafted

that don't go to the combine. I don't know if it was Daniel Jeremiah or if it was Rich Eisen that said what percentage of players go to the combine that get drafted, but it's like 98% of the guys that go to the combine get drafted, which I did not know. It's a very large number.

Yeah, I mean, we were just talking about how the entire beginning process of the combine. And that's essentially what it is. If you're fortunate enough to have an agent that's willing to pay for, you know what I mean? You're training, you're combine training, you're pro day training. You know, that's unfortunate. I know a lot of guys just send up going right back to their college and training at their college because it's typically free. You can just work, you've still got your scholarship. A lot of guys, you know, I mean still kind of living off of the college life and you can go to your teams or your school's weight room to be able to train and get ready for your pro day?

Once you get to one of these facilities, and there's a bunch of them all over the country, you really start training more for a track meet than you are training for, to be a football player. You think it's much different. The whole, your whole life, your training to be the best you can, well not your whole life for college at least, your training to be the best you can, well not your whole life for college at least, you're training to be the best you can as a football player. You really are, everything is designed to make you, for me, the best offense alignment for Travis,

the best tight end. And when you get to the combine, it's all about trying to get to the optimal weight, the optimal condition to test the best, and most likely to run the best. Some guys worry about 225 tests depending on the position, but the majority of it comes down to how can we make our 40 time look the best, how can we make all these different drills,

look the best, how can we make sure that we're on top of all the receiver drills and catching the ball, like you're wrapping everything you're going to do the combine at these places. Now, and I don't think they did this when I was coming out, but I think now they actually test the wonderlake before. There's a whole strategy to test. Yeah, I don't know if you're getting any better at the wonderlake over. If you're in your shorts, it's like a month or two. This is my hypothesis. If you're score and low enough that you need to study, the test to get better, I feel like most of those guys aren't studying the test to get better.

I think that's fair to say, right? You only get knocked on the questions that you... Your point is how many questions you answer correctly. So if you don't answer a question, you technically don't get anything knocked well it's not about knocking you just your score ends up being a number and that's how many questions you answered correctly so there's 50 questions so the best you can get is 50 so if you're confused on a question just keep it just give it that's the, all the questions. Try and, try to answer his questions. You know the, the, the point of the test is to try and answer as many questions you can. Right? That's one of the things that I, I only answered half the test. Cause I'm a slow reader. And this is another thing that I like have a problem with the wonderlaker time test in general

is if guys are slow readers, they're not gonna have great wonderlake score tests. I almost feel like a wonderlake score, the questions are so easy. I almost feel like the guys that don't score well on those are just not good at reading. What's fair? Cause the question's really hard on it. No, I'm with you, except for like some of them.

I mean, there's one or two math ones that are a little bit worthy, but like for the most part, 20 of the questions, train A is moving at. Yeah. Time out. Okay, the train left Phoenix. Train A. Okay, Phoenix is on Pacific Standard Time.

No, no, Phoenix is on a mountain. Draw a train with that A on it. Train A is moving. This is for a dry game. And the test is over. Please pass it to the front. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, to, like as far not important as possible, that's where I put the Wonderly Test. Yeah, I'm with you. But it is kind of funny to see some of these scores. I mean, it's amusing. It's, when you see it, man,

when you see a really, if you get a below a 10, I wonder like it's definitely, it's funny. It's funny. I don't know how to know the way to say it. If you get a below a 10, I wonder like it's definitely, it's funny. I don't know what other way to say it. There's a bunch of preparation that goes into it. I mean, from nutrition to everything, the fundamentals of the 40, the shuttle, the, you know, your training for just about two months or, yeah, just about two months for your bench press.

And you see guys just bulk up and just become absolute beast going into this combine. And then you get to the combine and it is a mental drag for a lot of guys that haven't been in a situation like that. I know it was a mental drag for me going from team to team, answering the same questions, getting asked the same stuff about my medical stuff, like injuries.

It's a dry-out process. Yeah. They throw you in a pair of spandex and take every, I take a picture of you in every angle of your body. You're measuring every inch. Every inch. Like a slab of meat. Flabba sausage, every single inch. There you go. And yeah, it's a pretty interesting and weird process, but when it comes down to where you can actually make some progress, I think is in the team interviews. And when teams are asking you to, you know, put on a board your favorite play and, uh, and does it change

versus coverage? Can you read coverages? What are you looking at on certain plays that they might have some of your film? They might throw it up on the TV and ask you what your thoughts are or how you're being coached on certain things. So you, it just, it helps them understand how good you are communicating what you're being taught, which also means how much confidence you have and what you're doing out there on the field in terms of fundamentals. How far down the road are you in terms of understanding scheme? And I think that goes way further than anyone to look score ever. For sure.

That is, if I can talk about the different coverages I was seeing and you know how I altered my route or how I went through my progression or how I picked up this blitz and I knew this blitz was coming because of the scheme and because of what you saw on the film the week before or what your coach has had been tell you know all that communication if you show that you are you have a business like approach to the game at the college level. That's automatically a check in the box of just, you know, him being ready for, uh, for the NFL because that's what they really want to see. They want to see guys that can come in and start right now with that business like mentality.

Yep. I think I think there's three major components that are going to improve your draft stock the most. One, obviously, is your film. How you played your senior year is the biggest determining factor. Two, is medical. If you're not going to clear medical, you got injuries that they're worried about, or you're going to, if they're worried about injury, all of a sudden you pass those injuries, or medical doctor's past shift, it'll improve your stock. The third way is these team interviews. I mean, this is a team game.

This is a relationships game. This is you're interacting with players and coaches and they wanna see guys that they wanna be around, right? These still gotta play, don't get me wrong, but the vacuum definitely be a deciding factor on how much the team likes you, how much where that chemistry fits in at. If you remind them of certain people, all of these things factor in in these team interviews.

Do you have any notable interviews? I really had, I think I had three formal interviews. So I'll say this too, at the combine there are informal interviews and formal interviews. Informal, you're in a big room, every team has that position that you're at. You're like a lunch table and everybody's, it's a free for all. And they're just running and grabbing you and they're trying to get you to basically fill out

a very generic sheet that they're having everybody to combine, fill out. Formal interview is usually your position coach, that's with that team, GM, head coach. Usually scouts or OCD, offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator. Yeah, head scout. Yeah, usually it OCDs, Office of Coordinator, Defense of Coordinator. Yeah, headscout. Yeah, usually it's the higher ups in the organization that are that are watching that are in that room. Not always. I did a

Patriots formal and I believe in Indy and Bill was not in the room. I did a Chiefs formal interview. I think. Nice. Bromley for now. Oh my gosh I think it was the chiefs. Yeah. That's crazy I remember. Wasn't Romant for now was Todd Haley. Was the head coach? Well Romant for you might have been a defensive. Which one jumped out at you and why? All I remember was in the first interview and I had heard through the grapevine that they liked me a lot. That's why I think it was the chiefs. I went around and shook everybody's hand, and I said their name after I shook their hand.

And I think I was just doing that out of nerves. And they were like, why are you saying our names after your... Why are you just repeating our names after? And I was like, oh, it's just a tool that I use to remember people's names. And then they were like, okay, what's just, it's just a tool that I use like, remember people's names. And then they're like, okay, what's my name? And I was like, you got me. So did not go well with not a good starting point.

Then they proceeded to ask me about some anger issues I had in college apparently. And it went south real quick. Okay. Oh man, great times. Yeah, I think I had like, you have one from the Ravens, that's one of my favorites, you gotta share that.

The Ravens, right? The Ravens was the most successful one. That wasn't at the combine. That wasn't at the combine though. That was at your top 30. Yeah, top 30. At the combine, I had some bad interviews. We already talked about the Patriots one

where I was trying to get Bella Check to crack a smile and just didn't and couldn't. And after I tried, just felt like it was an uphill battle from that point of time. Here we go. But a lot of these interviews, it's kind of interesting to see what teams, what approach some teams go. Because teams are going to throw up a play that what's your favorite

play. Some teams are going to throw up a play that you might have did really bad on and they want you to kind of coach yourself on this. You know what I mean? Some teams will throw up a play that's not even your film and they're just going to talk about football and ask you what your knowledge is on this kind of concept or this kind of route. You know what I mean? It's cool to see what teams do, do what exactly.

I know the Cowboys and shout out to Coach Garrett, Cleveland, Ohio baby representing Northeast Ohio up in the football world. Um, the Cowboys were kind of, they were, they were kind of pressing me about, you know, I mean, me having this red flag of missing, uh, missing a year, and just spending first weekend weed. Yeah, back in, uh, and I had, uh, I had just, I don't know if I was having a bad morning or what was going on, but I basically was just, I don't even know if I wanna say this.

It ended really fast, that meeting ended really fast, and they're typically 15 minutes long, and I was in there for about five minutes. I basically just said, if you guys think, I'm gonna be that kind of guy, or you're questioning, if I'm still that person person after everything that I've kind of battled through to get to where I am now from from missing a season. And you guys probably go somewhere else and pick somebody else and that is exactly what they did. They did that.

Yeah. They took your advice. your advice. And drafted Gavin Escobar. Gavin Escobar, who I thought was a stud, they were trying to find the um, the predecessor for uh, Jason Whitten. Yeah. And um, I, I botched that interview and um, yeah. Well, they had lost a few, lost a few dollars. Not to say that they didn't think Gavin was a better player going into that interview.

You know, right? Yeah. Who knows what it really was, but I know I didn't think Gavin was a better player going into that interview. You know, right? Yeah, who knows what it really was But I know I didn't help myself with that one help you don't you know, no, that did not help all the other meetings I stayed a full 15 minutes and Maybe they left and were like wow this guy really has changed his ways. He's very powerful now Still not as good as Gavin Eskibar. All right, and I feel like he was gonna attack me. I had like 10 interviews. The Steelers was another one where it was a really unique

interview. They had for what felt like everybody in the building in that room. And these are, you guys got to understand, these are hotel rooms. This is at this entire gate, is at like a convention center slash train station, old train station that they turn into a hotel room and they're keeping the train there Yeah, and the train is like the hotel room is crazy

So you go into this hotel room very minimal light kind of dark and You know, either they have a TV in there or they're just interviewing you straight up and And I go into the Steelers and I say what's up to Mike Tomlin, we talk about Cincinnati Bearcats and when he coached at Cincinnati. So I'm thinking this interview is going great and everything's, I'm killing it. At the time they got Heath Miller

and he's kind of getting a little older and I'm like, wow man, they might be looking to see if they can get it tight in. And you of course, me being the fuck can't be fucking serious ever. I sit there and you know those little like side lamps that are out the hotel, like those are the only lamps, like the bed light lamps,

you know what I mean? That are just, it's just like this little like, like, let it just get a little head on it. It's yellow light, it's not like a real like, aggressive light. And I'm looking at it, it's like I know that face and it's just staring at me And it's like a mean ass face man that dude looks like he's pissed back there He's not having any of this shit and it just clicks to me. It's like, is that Joe is that mean Joe Greene back there?

Is that mean Joe Greene? Mean Joe Greene was mean Joe Greene and so you know what mean Joe Green looks like? Of course, what? That's awesome. Everyone should. He was in one of the most iconic Coca-Cola commercials ever. I asked in the middle of me answering the question. I was like, is that mean Joe Green? Because that's kind of intimidating that he's sitting right under the light like that

and everybody kind of looked back and I was, no, just crickets again, just no laughs. And- We didn't learn from the movie, interview. That's one of the things for processing. How quick of a learner is he? Well, he's still cracking jokes. no laughs and learn from the new interview. That's one of the things for processing. How quick of a learner is he? Well, he's still cracking jokes. That's her bottom end. It's got to be the needs to get funny or he's just shut the fuck up.

So yeah, there was that didn't get drafted by either one of those two teams. I feel like I had like 10 to 12 interviews. And it's like, yeah, I don't necessarily know if you want interviews, the formal interviews, you know what I mean? Because that means there's some questions that they need answered. So I think you want them. You want them? You want as many meetings as you need? All right. As a six-round pick, we only had two or three formal interviews. I think the more the guys who are getting a lot of the formal interviews got drafted a lot higher than I do. Nice. And honestly, when I got, I got in the room with the chiefs. I had a, I had a formal

interview with the chiefs. You did. What they asked me? They asked me football. They asked me Tom Melvin, our tight-ends coach. It was an infill, you know, real well. Yes. Tom was grilling me on some, you know, plant and break steps on my routes. Nice. And I, I told him, you know what I mean? At the end of the day, I just got to catch the ball. Screw the fundamentals, I got to catch the ball. And Tom was like, hold on. Hold on. Not screw the fundamental because I mean, I hit my hands.

So I was essentially saying no matter what the fundamentals look like, the ball hit my hands, I got to catch the fucking ball. I love that. Screw the fundamental. I mean outside. Yeah, the fundamentals of trash time. They were they were treacherous. I get it. I got I need to plan a better plan better. But at the end of the day, the ball was in my hands and I dropped it. And I dropped it. Yeah. Yeah. So I just thought these and screw the fundamental.

I don't know if I actually said Oh, okay, okay, okay, I'm saying like in my head, I was just like, I understand there's coaching points, but at the end, they fucked the coaching points. I just got to catch this ball. That balls in the air, it needs to get fucking caught. All right. However, we got to make that happen.

We got to make that happen. But it didn't even feel like, like honestly, honestly, it didn't even feel like they were really like interviewing me. It felt like everybody knew you so well. That it was just like, all right, let's just, let's interview the family member and just, you know what I mean? It was almost like I was just in a room chopping it up with like my extended family about football.

You know what I mean? It didn't even feel like it was like a real interview. And so I left that room like the chief's don't want me. They were just doing that just because I was, You know what I mean? Like it didn't even feel like it was like a real interview. And so I left that room like the chief's don't want. I mean, they were just doing that just because I was, you know what I mean, one of their favorite guys, little brother, you know. They just wanted to kind of have it on the board, make it look like.

They just had to respect for Jason, we're gonna have a little done. Yeah. No, they were looking at it tight end. So that's the interview portion of the combine. Hopefully, you do better than Travis and I did in sounds like. The other portion, that's the biggest portion. Actually, the whole reason the combine even started

is just medical. This is a chance for them all to get your entire medical history. And the way it works, I mean, this is a whole day. A whole day is nothing, but medicals, if you need MRIs, you're gonna need MRIs, if you need x-rays, you're getting x-rays. Teams are grouped together, I think in groups of four,

if that makes sense. And you fill out paperwork and you go into the room, and I don't know why it's not all at the same time, but each of those teams that's in that room get a chance to move your hips around, ask your questions, be a little bit more personal about your medical history. Then you get that one checked off and you get in line for the next room and you do that until you're done with all 32 teams and

And actually if you're not cleared at that one, which I wasn't you weren't cleared either probably right? I was not I was in a way. We both had to go back. I think it's two months after that, there's another, what's that called? The, uh, the medical day where you have to go back to Indianapolis to, it's like a medical recheck. I was, I was cleared. I was clear. I was clear. I was supposed, I was post surgery. So I was already out of surgery and everything I just wasn't ready to do any of the Combine stuff. I got cleared by everyone though. I had ankle surgery and then I also had I know we've said this before But I had appendicitis at the combine so I had to appendectomy so I had to go back for multiple things to get cleared

Yeah, not good. So you go through the the team interviews the medical day is a fucking drag But that's honestly one of the days I remember the most because you're just sitting in line Yeah, with your peers with guys that are going through the exact same scenario as you I remember sitting there Lane Johnson Kyle long those those those sitting in a line with those two dudes I Kyle Long those those those those sitting in the line with those two dudes. I remember we I remember we drafted Lane Johnson And he said I met your brother at the combine you reminded me of James Dean and I was He was cool as a cucumber. He's like he thought you were the coolest thing. He's ever Mother fucking dog right there, but

I thought the same thing, Lane. Well, God, man, those are like the moments and the memories and the stories you hear around the college football that, you know what I mean? You remember forever, man, which is kind of the cool aspect of everybody doing it in one building, one at the same time as you get to kind of, you know, say what's up to everybody that you've been watching your entire college career.

The other portion is obviously the onfield drills and the testing. I did the testing at the Combine Trab, you did it at your pro day, right? Yeah, I did select few of my pro day. I made sure not to give them too much if that makes it any sense. Fair enough. I actually really enjoy watching the testing. I have so much fun watching it. I'm glad that NFL shows it because it gives you kind of an insight

and it just kind of gets you to lay your eyes on some guys without a uniform on and a helmet on and you know what I mean. Yeah, I don't take that much away from it. Like I do think I think I can tell when a guy's running or moving or bending There's certain guys that I actually will take away from the combat But like well, I like the way that guy moves. I like the way he changes direction. Look it's you scout Kelsey I see you dog. I don't like when guys look robotic when a guy looks like he's fighting the ground I don't give I don't care how fast his 40 is. I'm not gonna be a fan. It's just a reality of it

I want smooth. I want silky smooth movers. That's all I care about you didn't like DK mech have come out I didn't like me Honestly, I would not have liked DK mech gas running style I'm gonna be and I run very similar DK mech have just like a third of the speed And similar body type of course, but I saw I saw DK Mecca have run and I was like, oh my fucking gosh, that I mean, is he enormous running that fast? That is like the silver dude in the terminator, the fucking, you know what I mean? Like that run that aggressive just like in hoot, like he never gets tired. He just keeps getting faster, faster.

Take a piston. It's like a machine. keeps getting faster faster. It's like a piston. It's like a machine. It's like Jesus. It's like a watching Adrian Peterson run back in the day just like he's like oh my god. You fucking what? Your ankles and knees hold it out. You're just so aggressive. You are so. Can you just be like just run some fight and everything?

You know what I have to put that much force in the ground. Do you? Like I remember watching Lane Johnson move at his combat. Dude. Not watching any of the, like, and there were a lot of, there were a lot of really, really good tackles that year and athletic guys to try and arm stead end up running the fastest 40, but there was something about the way Lane moved. There's Fisher, big fish.

Fisher. Number one overall baby. Was it, yeah, he was number one and Luke Choco went to and Big Lane was four. And I do think the different drills transitioned to different positions. The drills I really like for offensive lineman are agility drills and I like the broad jump. Although I looked up Mitchell Schwartz's broad jump

and it made me feel less important about the broad jump. Yeah. That's bad. Well, everybody's everybody has their, you know, mean strengths. He makes up for a lot of the broad jump in turns on how big he is and his fundamentals. I mean, he between him and Lane, they're the two best plac, past blocking rate tackles for a long time. The reason I like the broad jump is because in order to have a good broad jump, you have to be able to have good hip mobility because it's part of it is exploding out.

But then the other part is being able to like, to get the most distance, you have to like put your feet out and be able to catch yourself in a very, like a very flexible position, athletic position. You know what I mean? Listen, you know I'm all about them hips. Listen, good hip flexibility.

I'm, I'm putting you in notch over the guys that got stiff hips. And it's just depending on, you know what I mean? Obviously every situation is different. You know what I mean? Every situation is different, but typically smooth and hip, mobile hips. When I see guys like often to lie

I mean they play with really wide bases, that's bad. You don't want to play with a wide base. But I like that you can get to that wide base. If you can't get there, if you can't move your hips and with good flexibility, functional mobility, I just, I think it's gonna be really, really hard to change direction and function at the level you're gonna have to in the NFL.

And I think that's the same thing for receivers like listen, I don't want you to be breaking all the time in this extreme position, but I like if you can do it. You know what I mean? I like if I like if your knees don't like I don't like when a guy looks like he's a track runner at the combine. I like I like when a dude looks like he's a basketball player at the combine. I want hips knees. I don't like when it looks like he's a track runner at the combine. I like, I like when it looks like he's a basketball player at the combine. I want hips, knees. I don't care that it's inefficient. I want it to be unpredictable. That's what I want.

I'm more technical when it comes to like the route running and stuff. I hate a lot, how a lot of receivers run routes nowadays, where instead of putting purposeful force into the ground, it's kind of like they just like spin in place really fast. They don't bend very well. And's kind of like they just like spin in place really fast They don't bend very well and a lot of it is just quick feet. You know what I mean and you big drum roll guy you big drum roll guy Hate that high school hairy shit so terrible terrible But at the same time if you if you don't know how to run around that helps you understand that you need to work your arms with your legs Going in and out of a break and I'm I'm all for that. I think it needs to be in sync though. You can't just

be up here and your feet aren't running as fast as you know. I mean, I'll give you a prime example of this. We were doing an off season conditioning drill where you got to go five yards, grab a tennis ball, come back, 10 yards, grab the ball, come back, 15 yards, grab the ball, come back. The receiver's doing it, and he's like drum rolling at five yards to grab the ball. And Lane is just running, putting his foot down, coming back, and he beat him. And I'm like, what are we doing?

That's full movement. There's no point in doing the drum roll if it's slowing you down. The only reason you would do that is if it was gonna help you get out of your break or make it more unpredictable to the DB where you are going to break, right? Like, there's no sense in doing that.

Otherwise. The only time I'm really drum rolling is if I'm trying to fuck with the guy in front of me. Don't say it. Yeah. That's what I feel like. I'm flaking. I'm flaking. I'm flaking.

I'm going to give you, I'm going to put the G-sirt on the plate for you. If I'm going to run sluggo, I'm doing a big drummer. I do. The Al Harris coach Al Harris and X NFL great Al Harris cornerback. He was in Kansas City for forever. And I and I did that or I like overly like showed a certain move on a double move, right? The first move was just super like, oh, I'm gonna run a hitch. You know what I mean? A hitch and go. And he looked at me and said,

if it's too good to be true, do not do it. He would fuck with you every time. Like he's like yelling at the DB, like if it's too good to be true, do not bite. He is setting a shit up every single time with them. Well, I'm just like, oh, I got to stop doing that. I was on my ass. You know what I mean? It was so funny, but yeah, Al hairs have me, have me, uh, skimmed up back to the drills. I'm looking for hip mobility.

I'm looking for ability to bend. I'm looking for, um, a player that's running athletically, not mechanically, and I'm looking for a guy that can get to full extension inflection. That's another reason I like the broad jump. I like slowing it down. If you're not jumping, if you can get the full, if you're not jumping and getting fully extended out

and coming back to me, that tells me that you're not, you're not explosive or you're not a fluid athlete. Like you should be able to do this movement. And I want athletes. I just want to feel it. I feel like you're going to miss this. I just want guys that can play the game too. You're right, man.

This is all you're right. And I think it goes into this. Yeah, I think when you're in the later rounds, were you're more worried about missing on a guy, or you're not quite sure about the film being the best, I'm gonna pick nine times out of 10 if I'm a GM, the guy who's more athletic, and not the guy who necessarily times the best.

I'm talking about the guy who I think is a better all around athlete, because I just feel like those guys usually figure it out. They might not be pro boys, they might not be like all pros. But if it's an athletic guy, he's gonna be able to figure out special teams. He's gonna be able to go in in situations,

and I know he's gonna be reliable. I know what I have in them. They're less injury prone. So those are all the things that I like watching at the combine. There's nothing more where I'm like, dude, this dude is stiff or look at this guy's running and it's like all hamstrings, like he's not,

it doesn't look right, like right away unless it's like, DK Mechka, I think I'm like, I'm just gonna protect. Dude, you can't look at DK Mechka for not being like, yeah, dude, I like that, I like what I just saw. Should we retake the wonderlake? For me, next? I'm that. I like I like what I just saw. Should we retake the wonderlick? I'm coming. I'm in. I just want to see it. Yeah, I'm in. I would love to see where I'm at. I think you're going to do better than me. You're better at reading. You what? I am always been a very slow reader. You actually read though. You read all the Harry Potter books.

You are. I did read though. You read all the Harry Potter books. You were a big reader. I did. I did. Sixth grade reading, summer reading project. I picked up Harry Potter in the Sorcerer Stone. I read that for six grade and I was hooked. I read every book after, although, have you ever read a book and realized that you are not pronouncing any of the names correctly

until the movie comes out. Like my entire life... I've never done that. I know what I... I read all the Harry Potter books before there was a movie which was like four minutes. Harry Potter. Harry Potter, man. I love Harry Potter.

The names I had wrong. I had always thought it was haggard. I don't know why I thought it was haigard, but it's haigard. Outliers. Hermione. I don't even remember what I thought Hermione was. I think it was her moan.

I just gave up on that one. I was like, I don't know how to pronounce this thing. All right, well, back to the, I've been able to read. Yeah, back to the combine, sorry about that. So yeah, let's retake the wonder look. Important drills, important drills. Important drills. I'm sorry about that. So yeah, let's retake the wonderland important drills important drills important drills

I don't think there is really one specific drill that you can give a certain position That's like all right. That's the one that you know I mean you got to see there's so much you can you need to be able to do on the football field I like that they put some weight on the on the sleds so you can actually see who's like, because we don't do that in Kansas City. We just hit the sled. Like if we're hitting the sled, we're hitting the sled. And we're working on fundamental. We're not trying to see how much power

we can put into the sled. But I think that's a good gauge on who's putting power into the sled and making you know, making that thing jump. Driving that force. Yeah. I think that was a great one. I think it's one of my least favorite things because I feel like it's a unnatural. Grabbed. Yeah. I mean it feels weird. But I agree. It is a very good gauge for applying force into the bag. And it's a good thing to see a tight end do. Yeah. And then I like to see the

gauntlet. I like to see the gauntlet I like to see the gauntlet I like to see that's when you got like seven quarterbacks throwing you a football You're running from like sideline to sideline when you're running on the line On the line stay out of line this side than this side because what it does is it and makes you mentally Keep in moving you have to find the next football find the next you know I mean I've seen guys get hit in the face. I've seen guys dribble over it. It's not good.

Dude, but you know, hot seat real quick. Some guys don't know which way to turn. I forget who got hit in the face man. Somebody got hit in the face off the rip. Um, either way, I like to see those two drills to see how fluent guys are catching the football and how much, you know know what their pace looks like when they're pushing the sled things like that. The other two drills that I really like are the agility drills, the three cone and the 20-yard shuttle and it's not so much for time. I

remember what the coaching points were for me when I was running that. So I like to see the strategies or lack thereof of guys. I don't think a lot of people realize like to have a good 20 yard shuttle time, it's less about running it as fast as you can and more about hitting the steps and breaking points like purposeful movement. Yeah. Like if you go four steps and it touched that line and come back, coaches up, you're going gonna be faster doing that drill

than if you have to take six because you're not being coordinated with your movements, even if it's faster. You might get to the line quicker doing six, but you're not gonna come out of the line as fast, you're not gonna break out as quickly. I remember I would run that 20-yard shuttle and I was, if I ran as hard as I could,

I'd be somewhere in the four-fours maybe high 4-3s but when I hit every step I was always low 4-2s sneaking into the 4-1s like you run 4 steps and you don't run you stay lateral because you don't want to have to turn your hips again like the two turns are the biggest time savers on that drill 100% So like if you can maintain your hip square, hit that line seven steps this way, on your seven step, plant left foot down, out. There's no way you remember all this. It's what I got there is.

Not only that, I remember, I don't know if anybody's getting anything out of this. Well, I just remember on your six step, so you stay square, shuffling basically, but aggressive shuffle. When you plant with your right foot, you want your right foot to be in front of your left so that when you come out,

you don't have to come back out across your hips. You know what I mean? Yeah. I know what I mean. When you get down there, you want two, three, four, five, six step, you want to be turning it already. Yeah. So that you're ready to clear your hips.

You cheat the turn, the cheat your hips, and then all you got to do is bring your torso around with your elbows. And then positive, and positive shin angle, you're going to come out of there, good. Ladies and gentlemen, purposeful movement by Jason Kelsey. If you do this thing with the steps, it's all about

fundamentals. That's what Tom Melvin was trying to tell me. And I screwed up the three cone drill because I tried to do it in less steps, but I wasn't good enough to do it in less steps. I tried to do it the way receivers do it, but I'm too fat and I had a big gut. So I jumped, I literally jumped in my three cone. It would have been better if I would have just started in a right-footed stance That was when you had an appendix and then now now that that's out. It is. That's true now that that's out I could probably do it in three steps. So what was it like going back now 12-year veteran in the NFL

Best center that ever played the game going back to the combine How much of it do you think is just a joke or what did you get to take away from it? Yeah, I mean, so now that you're a veteran, I do think that the combine is a little bit like not overhyped, but you know, there's, you realize that at the end of the day it all comes down to your film and what you do out on the field. And you know, you want to, as long as you get an opportunity to prove that, that's what you want. And you realize how much other teams kind of,

it's not the only thing going on in the comment. As a player participating, you think it's all about the guys that are out there running the drills, being evaluated. Slaves of me. When you go back there, you find out, oh, these guys are just hanging out in bullshit in all day.

Like, it's basically just a big networking convention where I mean, how many deals get done in that little bar at the bottom of the Marriott, I'd be really curious to know. Um, or at least where this spark starts, you know what I mean? Yeah. And there's a lot of guys there. I just found this out this past weekend that don't work for a team like a lot of them are just there Looking to get hired There's a lot of guys that are looking for work that go to the combine because they know all the coaches and people are gonna be there So they're gonna go show their face and hope when a job opens up that they're gonna get a job So yeah, much different experience not

being a participant I thoroughly enjoyed it. I got to see a lot of people and a lot of coaches and a lot of guys that I played with that are now coaches, not to mention all the wonderful people that I got to interview, including the guy that we're about to introduce right now. So you've heard non-combine experts give their thoughts on the combine. I'm an expert now. Let's go to the conversation with our draft and combine expert, Daniel Jeremiah,

from the NFL Network. This conversation is brought to you by our friends at Accelerator Energy. Drink. A. Shock, baby. Fueled by nature. Also known as A. Shock. A. Fueled by nature.

All right, our next guest was a quarterback at Appalachian State University, former Eagles West Coast scout, when I first was in Philadelphia. Now, the analyst for the NFL network, you can catch him during all the NFL draft combine coverage this week. My guest right now is Daniel Jeremiah. How's it going? Good. What's up? It's great to see you. Yeah, it's been a minute. Yeah. I guess

we'll start it right off. Let's get all the dumb combine questions out of the way. Does the combine matter? What do you take away from the combine? I think it does. I think you got to kind of know what it is and take it for what it is. I think there's people that say like, this is dumbest thing ever. It has no value. I don't believe that. And I think there's other people that put too much into it. But I always looked at a team I was on. A lot of times we had clumps of players where you had maybe it's three like corners that you kind of have together in that third round. You have the same grade on them. And now you get to see them in the line out there working out in the same field. Maybe that little bit separates one or two of those guys. So that's kind of what I think the value is just to kind of separate those clumps.

What is the most meaningful part of the, is it the on field drills that everybody sees watching it? Is it the meetings in the teams with the players? Is it the medical? Because that's what the combine used to be. It used to be just medical right? That's the biggest thing. Okay. So like for example, for scouts, you come in for the draft meetings in December, and then we come back after the comment, after the pro days, and you'll have guys position on the board and you'll come back and you're like, dude, where the heck is Johnson?

Johnson was like all the way through. I love this guy. Crazy! It ain't like medical, medical, God, I'm, you know, so then I'll drop a guy down. There's some other guys you kind of put in the holding tank on there, we're like, okay, we gotta see how the medical shakes out. Oh, he passed, so then I'll drop a guy down. There's some other guys you kind of put in the holding tank on there, we like, okay, we gotta see how the medical shakes out.

We pass, so we're good. So that has the most impact, but I'd say it's different with different positions, like quarterbacks. The meetings obviously huge, your position, the meetings are gonna be huge. Yeah. And then corners, you know, how they run, this is kind of a big deal.

Pretty big deal. Pretty big deal. Are there any drills for specific, I guess, positions that you were like, this is a really important drill for that position. That you really hone in on when those guys are doing that. Well, I think probably from being around Jim Washburn during that time.

I just, I mean, the hoops always, just seeing how guys can bend, you know, can you really corner? I think that for past rushers is something you can kind of hone in on. You learn a lot. If you're tight, it really corner? I think that for past rushers is something you can kind of hone in on. You learn a lot. It's it, if you're tight, it's going to get exposed in that. Sure. Yeah. If you don't have the ankle flexion, how would you guys had you guys doing that stuff too? Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a carryover between a line and if you can't bend, and you can't, and you

don't have the ankle flexion to get in a good position, you're going to struggle off into line or defensive line. Yeah. And And who drill is it? For any edge rusher that can get low and maintain the speed coming around that thing. Like Miles Garrett doing that drill is one of the freaky things I've ever seen, man. We practiced against him this year. And he went up against Jordan Malata

who is an unbelievable tackle. And it was so funny because the first day we were out there, Miles wasn't there, I think he had some family thing going on and Jordan unbelievable practice. And the next day, Miles only did one on one. And he did exactly what you're saying. He bent the hoop at the size and speed that he is. And everyone right away was like, whoa, that is way different.

And in fact, Joel Potone is I was sitting right next to because I wasn't practicing I was in Jersey because I just said elbows for you Joel Patone was like can you believe we're like the same like It's like a super here. Yeah, no, it's not normal. Yeah, and And the funniest thing we're watching tape after practice and The style's like Jordan you're you're turning and you're better. Like, yeah, well, look at him. He's going to be against a different guy.

Like, that's always my favorite. So it's like, we're going to, you're expected to maintain perfect technique and come on. It's a super freak. He's absolutely super freak. When he was coming out, I was talking to one of the coaches at A&M just to get back. I mean, the tape was what it was.

He was the best player by far, but I'm like, he seems like in talking to him so mild mannered. Like, does he have a button that you push? Like, does he ever get to that point? And he goes, he's playing basketball in high school. And they had lost. I don't know if it was a state championship or a big game. And he's like, we come in and he goes right into the locker room

and all of a sudden we just hear this noise. And he goes, he had grabbed the stalls by each side, went in there with one side and just pulled the entire stalls down. Just snapped them off the wall, both sides laying on the ground when they came in there and he's like, yeah, he has a switch. Yeah. Well, I pray to God, nobody ever has to see that. Hopefully he's good at manipulating it.

It doesn't just come out of nowhere. But yeah, that's unbelievable. There's a few guys you watch and you're just like, man, that guy is so different. What about AD? What about A.D.? What about Aaron Donald? So Aaron, luckily I do not have to block him one-on-one that often, but usually outside Russian, a guard, but the same thing, the level of quickness,

I always think for defensive linemen, the best defensive linemen out there, are guys that have speed and power. If you only have speed, there's things you can do to kind of guard against that. If you're a finesse player, you can go with a little bit wider hands on your punch. You can do things that you can bait them into certain like areas, right? To like push them where he needs to go. Yeah. If you only have

power, I'm gonna sit down on that all day and sell out on that. Yeah. But if you have both, it's hard, it's really hard to maintain balance. And for me, especially being an undersized guy, I lean a little bit not of self power, I have to. And I think AD has all of it. He's got the unbelievable, unbelievable twitch. He's one of the few three techniques that can win consistently rushing outside of a guard. Most really, really good three technique passers are either going through the guard or doing a quick move inside of you, get them early.

Him, Chris Jones, there's only a handful of guys that are like winning outside hand swipes on them. There's a three technique and somehow sneaking through the beat. Yeah. And you have a price used to do that. Like when I was in Baltimore, Trevor Price was there and it was freaky.

If you can do that, it opens up so much for you to do to the guard, because then the guard's like, man, I gotta move out there now. And then that creates separation, that A gap gets a little bit bigger. It's, so I think AD, and then just being relentless. Yeah. Like, I, it's not the most, I wanna ask you a

scanning question because I feel like that's like the most underrated aspect of a past rusher. In inside any defensive player. If you play truly to the echo of the whistle. Yeah, you're and you run to the ball You're gonna be around it. Yeah, and when you when you combine that with like unbelievable physical traits, it's it's a pretty good recipe and AD is he's just relentless He's like a bulldog down there that just is mad and angry. And like, man, I'm just playing football. Are you mad at me?

I'm just trying to do my job. Does he talk? Kale, stop coming over. What do you have in the guard for? I'm like, do you think I'm gonna leave you one at one? You're the best player in the NFL. I'm going to slide to you every time. Like, what are you, I'm not just going to let you

ruin the game, Aaron. Yeah, that's so good. That's amazing. Well, so I want to ask you another scouting question that I'm hijacking this for selfish reasons. I love this, please, because they're better when it's a dialogue because because to me, like, we'll have a debate this year as well. You've got a premier edge guy and you've got a premier interior guy. In terms of from an offensive line standpoint, you're getting ready for the game. You know who you're up against. One week it's this guy, one week it's the guy out there. What's more difficult to navigate around? So I think a premier edge player forces the offense to structurally help it more.

Like you're going to do formations that put guys in front of them. You're going to chip more with either a tight end, preferably or running back. You're going to design plays that are going to mess with them a little bit more. It's harder to do that at detackle. You can still do it, but I feel like detackle, it's just, the best thing you can do is slide to them. There's not really a chip. I mean, some teams will try and chip like a running back through the big app, but that's rare.

So if you have a really monstrous detackle, especially you, I mean, if you're building five man fronts, if you're blitzing a lot, for me to slide to that guy every time, like, we're giving up. Yeah. Like that's very realistic. Yeah. We're all day. Yeah.

And like if we don't have like either a hot answer or a way from them or if you move them around, like if you play not, if you're an over front all day every day, and you can guarantee he's gonna be to the tie down, you can do some things structurally. Yeah. But especially on third down, you mix them up, you do the overload fronts, you blitz every once in a while

that I have to be honest with where I'm putting the protection. It's harder in my opinion and I probably shouldn't be saying that. No, no, it's great. It's harder to structurally do something for a detackle if you're doing all that. So this is why I think, and I know we both know how we really well, but I think that personnel departments and coaching staffs that don't communicate well, and I would add players in there, like I think there's more of a role. I'm not saying you bring in players

and like they're gonna pick who, you're gonna see who we're taking in the draft. But information like that, when you're sitting there in the second round and you got equally graded ed rusher, equally graded defensive tackle. Like that information knowledge from your players and from your coaches,

I feel like there's a lot of organizations that don't communicate that stuff. But I will say, there's only at a given time maybe like two or three, maybe four detacles that are like that level disruption. There's more guys at the end because most of the best athletes on the way to the side are playing the end. So in a given year, there's more guys probably at that defensive end of the position that we're going to have that impact. I give you AD, this year, Dexter Lawrence, certainly. I'm going to be going to be getting there. Yeah.

I think all of those, like, those are like the guys I can think of right off the top of it, that have been like, run-stopping, like, pass rushing, like, these guys, we have to make sure we know where they're at at all times. And we're affecting everything because of that. Other guys that are really, really good. It's like, okay, we're gonna do some things, but we're not gonna let it consume us. Whereas defensive end, I think every week you're kind of like, I mean, it's gotten to the point where every team has pretty much good edge rushers. They're all investing in that.

There's great players coming out every year. Like, it's to the point now that you can't even have a bat. Like you used to be like, you had to have a lock down left tackle. Right tackle could just be like a big run blocking right tackle. And like, now it's just not the case. You have to have two premier tackles of blocking the edge. We used to always say in Draftonies, this guy's got to play on the right side.

Yeah, you can't see that anymore. You can't look at it. Look at this Russian over there. And that's why like, you know why I'm so happy for Lane Johnson that he started to get the credit that he's deserved for a long time. It's for years, all the credit went to the left side guys and they were ones that made the pro bowl

and it's still pretty much dominated left side. But Mitchell Schwartz, I mean, there's some right side that was really, really good that didn't get the accolades probably they deserved because they were right side guys, even though they were doing the same thing against unbelieveable. I'm sure you guys.

Yeah. Is there anybody this week that you're really excited to watch? Like, I don't know anything. Yeah. No, no, yeah, no, there's, there is, man. And this week we're gonna have a lot of the quarterbacks are throwing.

So Bryce Young's the best one, in my opinion, at Alabama, he's under size. He's not gonna work out here, he's gonna wait till his pro day. But all the other guys are throwing. So, and people- That's rare. Yeah, that normally everybody waits the pro day.

Yeah. So, to see him, and look, everybody gets carried away of this ball sailor, I don't care about that. They don't know these receivers, there's no timing. You're not looking at that. I just wanna see how they move around a little bit, their footwork, and then you can just see how the ball comes out of their hand.

In scouting, we always say you need to go see quarterbacks through a live, because you can watch them on tape, but you don't know. And I'm sure you've seen it even, guys, you look across the field. And if you haven't seen Josh Allen throw a football live, like it's different, man.

However good, whatever looks like on tape, it's different when you see that in person. Right. And it works the other way sometimes too. So just getting to see the ball come out of their handle a little bit, that's always fun. There's a kid Anthony Richardson from Florida that's gonna be 64 to 35.

I don't know if he's gonna run, but he's like a legit four-four guy, like he's crazy. Yeah. He's got 80 yard runs, 60 yard runs, and the SEC is a quarterback. And then he's got a huge arm. So I'm kinda looking forward to seeing him. That's funny you say you have to like be there

to see some of these guys throw because I will, I watch Michael big play my entire childhood. And then the first time I ever did a practice with them and watched him through a ball and like the whip. Oh, yeah. And like the end, like the last like little spinny put on it. Like dude, this is insane. Like how fast and like it's like being shot out of something.

You know what I mean? It's like just like somebody just throwing a ball. It's different and it's hard to explain. I'm not explaining I guess. So I remember being there for those practices. And you remember the long touchdown to DeShawn against Washington, right? So I wanna get your side of that story

because I'll give you my, it's slightly different. So I'm scouting for the Eagles, I'm on the West Coast. I just got back from like a road trip, so I'm home. Me and my brother-in-law go to the nicest fanciest restaurant you've ever seen, P.F. Changs. Yeah, I'm a little bit like. So we're in there and we're in the bar, we're watching the game.

And it's like, we've just settled in it. I'm like, you know, watching the game. Normally, it's your, it's, you know, I work for the team, but you don't, you know, no cheering in the press box. You kind of take that mentality, right? Okay. Key uncorks at one. First play of the game. Yeah.

And I lost my mind. And everybody in the PF Chains is looking around like, dude, this is like the biggest Eagles fan of all time. Like no idea that I worked with these guys. But that was one of the, that's still one of the best football throws I've ever seen. Yeah, and it was combining probably the two best players at that split.

Like very few quarterbacks could throw a deep ball like Mike could. Yeah. And I don't think to this day, I mean, I didn't play with Randy Boss and so many other guys. But just watching Deshan Jackson trackable, it was unbelievable. It's, it was like an out center field. He played baseball. It makes sense when you really think about it, he tracked it like Willie Mays or like some one of these all-time great outfielders with trackable. And he would kick into like another gear Mm-hmm. Like you'd be running step-ers up with the DB Mike would throw it up and he would just like a oh man gone. Yeah, and

Yeah, that play was like a like a like okay, we got something here Yeah, I scared a lot of people in that restaurant that night. I can promise you that So you talked about the combine kind of separates guys that are close to the world. Yeah. How many guys is it actually like changing out of this week? Like is most of this, I guess I'll ask this question first. When does like a draft board start to be assembled?

When is it like actually tiered like that? Is it already happened? And then the combine is kind of happening after that started. Yeah, so the first board will go up in December. And that's like, you know, there's books about this, right? You want to anchor it. You want it so that you don't have these wild swings. So once you put them up on the board

and you've kind of got them in your ranges, it makes it more difficult than to have the wild swings. Like a lot of people call this spring like the fog of confusion. Like, you know, we're not playing football anymore. So let's not get too carried away from what we thought of these guys coming off the football season, coming off the tape. So you get the board up there. But what happens a lot of times if you look at your board, so say you've got your positions across this way, then you've got the grades going down this way. So you have your, that's the image of

the board. Well, we might have say it's a center, right? So we have center instead of stacking them on top of each other, we might have two or three of them that we put next to each have, say, it's the center, right? So we have center instead of stacking them on top of each other, we might have two or three of them that we put next to each other and say, okay, we have the same grade. We're not going to say this guy's better than that guy. We're going to say these guys are all together. They're traveling together. Now we're going to go to the All-Star game.

We're going to go to the combine and we're going to interview them and bring them into the facility if we still haven't figured it out. And get pro day, everything else. And then you have more guys watch it. Coaches will come into the process a little bit later. Yeah. And so they're gonna get to watch them. And then you kind of, okay, now we can start separating

those guys. How does evaluating like the level of a player while also factoring the position and value of that position factor in, right? So like, you might have an unbelievably dominant center. We keep using center for some reason. I love that. I love that center. using center for some reason. I love that. I love that.

Center, it's the center talk. I love it. I'm here for it. But obviously quarterback is the most important position of you. So how do you evaluate like this guy's a game changing level center, or like the best thing we've seen the last five years, versus like a top five every year quarterback?

Yeah, you're going to see it at a couple of different positions this year because running backs the popular one. Yeah. Because people. Yeah, you're going to see it at a couple different positions this year because running backs the popular one. Yeah, because people will see, you know, you find running backs anyway. If you just saw a Pacheco in the Super Bowl, the seventh round pick, but then I'm telling you, like, there's some guys that are different. There's some guys that are special. If you think you have Adrian Peterson, you know, anybody wants to make fun if you've

taken Adrian Peterson the first time, let him make fun of me. I'll play with Adrian. Yeah, I'll play with Adrian Peterson some guys. Yeah, some real dudes. And like Texas, to me, they're running back this year. B. John Robinson. He's my fourth highest grade player in the whole draft. Yeah. I saw you had a mocked to potentially fill it out. I talked about I talked about Philly and I said, I said, look, how he's never going to happen. Never going to happen. You never, ever going to happen.

I've been there. I know it. Yeah. Off the ball linebackers and running backs are not getting picked in the first round. They don't believe in it. Especially high, yeah. And you guys have continued to invest in the trenches and it's paid off, but I do think there's exceptions every now and then there's a difference making it clear.

It's got a separate group. He's a freak, man. And the thing is, on running backs to go back to that, don't waste their carries. So if we acknowledge, and we all can acknowledge, their shelf life's not real long position. So if you say you have four, five, maybe six years of really good play over running back,

don't you want all those carries to matter? If you've got a really good team, then it's not like you're saying, I have been taking the running back over a pass rush or a quarterback if you don't have one, but if you've got a lot of those pieces in place and you have a really good team and now you take a premier running back,

like everyone of his carries is gonna matter. You're a relevant team right now. Yeah, and when you do have that guy, he has an enormous difference maker. We've seen that, either with Pollard, we've seen, I've certainly been ziquasin' his pride. Look at the jets this year. That's my argument for people talking about the running back.

But there's some, look at the jets with Breast Hall and look at them without Breast Hall. Exactly. For some reason, the running back, went from being the position right under quarterback because this guy could be be a game changer guy. So now it's like there's almost nobody picking them in the first round.

And look, the other side of the coin is you're finding them day three running backs every year that are really good and that are really good players. It's deep running back class. So do you think that that could hurt, maybe? I think it's gonna hurt him. I think just the positional value and the fact that there's depth of the position. It's one of those deals where if you talked everybody in the league they'll

agree he's a great player and nobody can agree on when they think he's gonna go like what enables I guess maybe like like wasshamacuidably 10 plus years at a high level like watching age or peers and there's no way I would have thought he would have lasted 10 years yeah because he not only was a facet violent physical violent yeah like most of those guys are not less than that long. Is that just kind of like a crap shooting some ways? Like you get lucky? Yeah, I would say Adrian Peterson's like in his own world. Like I mean, I think probably when they look back

on the game 20 years from now, he's gonna be one of those guys where, you know, and these are big names, are you talking about like Bo Jackson? Like those guys just look different. They're not, nobody's the next Adrian Peterson. Okay, this is one of one. So he was his own thing, but like, Shady was, he was more quickness based.

He did a lot of punishment. And then he wasn't just a pure speedback because these guys are all gonna lose a step as they get older. That was never, he was like a four, five, mid four, five guy coming out. His strength was elusiveness, like just like, like his, in space, like he was,

I know, Mr. Robbock is crazy. I know. If you look back at the same, you know, I know. It's the most mind-blowing thing. Like breaks everything any football has ever taught you about ball security. Yeah.

But from five points of pressure to two points of pressure, and I think that that led to some of that elusiveness though, like, I mean, when you're all out, I mean, he's playing basketball. He was a little bit out there crossing guys over in on a football field. Yeah, 100%. But I mean, it is interesting when you think about the, you know, the value of the positions. Yeah.

So this year, like 10 of my top 50 players are edge rushers, you know, to what you were saying earlier. There's a lot more edge rushers than there are interior defensive linemen. Yeah. So this is interesting because you say, well, there's a lot of them, maybe I can wait, but it's such a premium position that they're going to all go, man, they're going to be a huge run. I feel like it's easier to see guys that are put in one-on-one positions and are pretty scheme independent on whether they succeed.

So I'll give you, like, like a defensive end. If a defensive end is consistently beating an offensive tackle, he's got great measurements. Pretty easy to be like that guy's probably that translates. Yeah. Quarterback, you know, is the offensive line good? Does he have good receivers? Like is the coach putting him in good positions? Like I feel like with every level of variable that's added, is it harder to evaluate that player on whether he's good or bad? It's not makes sense. It's the quarterbacks, the hardest thing to get right. I think in scouting and I've buddies in all different sports, evaluating quarterback, because two things, it's a dependent position,

as you mentioned, you're dependent on all these other things. So what happens is you can overgrade a guy, sure, because he's got an unbelievable offensive line, he's throwing a three-in-a-file white-outs, right? Exactly. So now I've graded him too high, and then you've got a Josh Allen who's at Wyoming who's got a couple bankers and farmers in front of him.

You know, throwing, throwing to guys that aren't ever gonna play, you know, beyond college. Yeah. And he's playing against Oregon and Iowa. And so maybe, you know, we don't give him credit for doing what he's doing with who he's playing with. That's why it's so, and then the other thing, so that's college.

Yeah. And now it matters, where do you go in the NFL? NFL, yeah. Guys that are perceived bus, they go someplace else, they could have been. 100% right? 100% You're like, dude, if this guy would have landed

in Philadelphia or San Francisco or Kansas City, like I think this guy would have been a real player. I think about that all the time with offensive linings. I'm like, man, there's no way some of these guys aren't good players. You see him and you're like, if I feel like you Jeff Stoutlin, and I know I'm biased because I've been with Stout

for a long time, but like situation, coaching, system, whether you're the right fit for it, players around you, like all that goes into being a good player and having a successful career. Now, if you're, there are scheme independent guys, and those are harder to find later in the draft, like flutcher Cox, no matter where he went, was gonna be pretty darn good. There are scheme independent guys and those are harder to find later in the draft. Yeah. Like, fluttercocks, no matter where he went, was going to be pretty darn good.

I don't even know how you begin to evaluate a guy who is so dependent on other guys from him. It's impossible, man. It's flipping a coin. But like, on the offensive line side of it, when I was in Baltimore, the worst thing, like, you're all sitting in the room. We've all got our grades. We've all gone on the record.

It's all been printed out in the book the owners in there You can see the grades and stuff and so a lot of times you know a guy gets picked say a guy you thought stunk And he's you have a free agent grade He gets picked in the third round. You're like, I don't get that guy stinks like you can't play sure But if you if we had an offensive line in it that you had a free agent grade on and he went to the cults Mm-hmm. We'd all be like oh crap Howard this guy's gonna start for great on any one to the cults. We'd all be like, oh crap. Howard, he must have- This guy's gonna start for eight years.

Like, what are the, oh, you can see, let me see the scout, the room just go like, oh man. Yeah. Like Kyle DeVan. Kyle DeVan, like, Kyle DeVan's gonna, he's a free agent. He's a champion. Yeah, Jeff's all play forever.

I was talking to Howie about this. So like, he said, Howard kind of changed the way he viewed off. And like, Howard was kind of in some ways ahead of the, like he just wanted athletes. Yeah. And in Indy, they had really good lines. Obviously, him filled out who had great lines. Yeah.

And changed the way, I guess, how he said that he had anyway in offence alignment. There was no difference. He was, Howard was the first one I talked to who said, like we were in meetings or something, and somebody made the comment of like like he's a right tackle only. And he was like, that's not how the league works. He saw the first hand in Indianapolis with a Mathis and there's two of them.

There's two over here to do it. Yeah. Then obviously you were a scout with the Eagles when I first got the Philadelphia. You said you have the scotter report. I do. And keep in mind it's a terrible mess. But here's the Philadelphia. You said you have the scanner report. I do. And keep in mind, it's a terrible mess. But here's the story. So how we, one of the things how we would do, and I'm sure he still does it, and we still talk about players this day, maybe a couple weeks before the draft. And he said, Hey, I want you to look at these

four interior offensive linemen. And under the under the the impression these are like later pick day three offensive lineman. So it's four guys. Yeah. So the first three guys are terrible. Okay. And you and you're really good. Obviously you were 280 pounds. I'm sure you've told the story. You know, maybe sick going there. So, but I'm lit out in California. I don't know who you are. I just know I watched a 280 pound center. But I'm like, he's infinitely better than these other guys. So I'll give you the end of my report here. It says, uh, all right, overall, there are other centers of this draft class that are ahead of him right now, but he has a higher ceiling than all of them. And the right scheme, he'll start for us in two to three years. Holy cow. So, but I gave you, but here's the thing. So I gave, that's the best thing anybody gave me. No, but I gave you, I gave you, I gave you, everyone else was just like, I wasn't even on their board because I was too small, so. But it's a fifth round grade and I thought,

like, I'm really putting myself out there. Like, we'll take this guy in the fifth round. He's a first ballot, future the hall of favor. Like, he's not a fifth round pick. Hey, well, you were giving me more credit than anybody else was at the time, so I appreciate it. No, you stood out like a sore thumb. I was ready for Travis, too. I didn't have his report, but I appreciate it. No, you stood out like a sore thumb. I was ready for Travis too.

I didn't have his report, but I was my first year in the media, and I had him behind Ifert in Eurts, then he was number three. Number three. So I missed that. Oh, for two. Those of them, they end up having good careers too. Especially Zach.

Yeah. What made you go to the media? Why did you stop Scotting? So true story. I, so I, with Baltimore for four years, and then Cleveland gives me a promotion to go be their national scout. So I go to Cleveland.

First year we go 10 and six. The next year we go 4 and 12. We all get fired, like part of the business. So I have 18 months left on my contract. I have offset in my contract. So wherever I go, I'm gonna work for free for the next year. Sure. So I got off a job with the Cardinals,

and I'm like trying to explain to my wife how this works. So I can stay home job with the Cardinals and I'm like trying to explain to my wife how this works. So I can stay home and we make this amount of money. The same. Or I can go be gone on the road for 150 days and then the tough sell. And as I'm like talking, like this makes no sense. I'm like, so let's take this year off. Sure.

I'm going to start a Twitter page and like see what happens because it was like I had been curious and the media and stuff. So I start that. It blows up. it takes off because this is early Twitter like no there's no scouts on there and like fantasy football people are asking you questions. So this this blows up. I get a broadcasting agent. I start doing stuff with ESPN and I think okay, I'm gonna go into the media and then the lockout happens and people don't think about what not just with the players like that impacts networks like there's a hiring freeze not hire anybody if you don't know there's going to be any games right so now my my Randy learner sweet sweet browns contracts getting ready to run out scholarships about to come do so then I was like a crap on this the media thing I haven't got a full time job yet I'm just kind of dabble in with this stuff. So then I went and talked to a couple teams with the Patriots and the Eagles and then I've taken the job with the Eagles. So I'm in Philly and halfway through my second year,

the broadcasting agent, who I have not talked to in 18 months, I think that ship sailed. He's like, hey, ESPN and NFL Network want to hire you. If you're interested in getting out of scouting and coming into broadcasting. And I was like, oh wow, okay. And then so I end up meet with them kind of on the slide,

never told how we that, like during the year. And then I got off for a job, I'm both of them, and I felt that we're going to be to start right away. I'm like, I got to get through the draft, I can't leave before the draft. So we do the draft, the fletcher drafts, I think you're 12. I'm 12. And then literally that night after the draft,

I went in the how is office. And I was like, hey man, I've got this opportunity. I just wanna give you a couple of days, I'm gonna try and figure things out and then talk to my wife and we're like, this is gonna be better for us. Just as a family, my kids are getting older. I don't wanna miss their games.

And the network was close to my house. I didn't have to move the Connecticut. So I ended up making that move. That's crazy. What does nobody know about scouting? What was, was it the traveling? Was that the hardest part? Man, it's brutal.

It's so brutal. That's a thing. And I see guys that I started with. My first year was in 03. So I've been coming over 20 of these combines. And you see guys that, and like, dude, these guys are still on the road. I don't know how they do it, man.

I just couldn't do it. It's rigorous. But I often get asked, like, what, these guys are still on the road. I don't know how they do it, man. Like, I just couldn't do it. It's rigorous, but, you know, I often get asked, like, what's the number one thing you've learned from scouting? And I have a very serious answer to that. And that is, if you're ever on a road trip and you have to go to the bathroom, if you go to Starbucks, you're more on.

Like, nobody does that. You don't want a gas station, you're not, that's subhuman, like, you can't do that. Yeah. You need to find a hotel,, you're not, that's some human, like you can't do that. Yeah, you need to find a hotel. What is the best? You find the hotel, right? And the lobby hotel bathroom is the most pristine bathroom

on the face of the earth. That's, you go in there and try to, you go in there at the lady at the front desk, hey Mary, she doesn't remember that, did this guy check in earlier? I don't know. You go back and use the facility, you might even get a cookie on the way out the door.

Oh my God, I am for sure stealing this device. That's just everybody watching this, come down on, because I've been in a gas station, Bratham. You're on the same road. Oh, no, you don't want to do that. In Starbucks, yeah, I think they're coffee shop bathrooms are probably quite heavily used. We appreciate you coming in.

No, man. Congratulations to you, man. To look at not only what you and your brother have done as players, which has been incredible, but for you guys to be doing this, it's awesome, man. Thank you. So happy for you. We're having a blast. We're gonna keep doing it for as long as people keep listening.

Welcome to the New Heights Post interview interview, brought to you by Accelerator Active Energy Drink. Jason, what do you think of a day on Jeremiah's Combine Analysis? I mean, we're sitting here talking about the Combine. Not the draft, the combine. Not the actual draft, the combine. Not the draft, we're talking about the combine.

I mean, how silly is that? We're talking about forties, vertical jumps. Not the draft, broad jumps. I mean, what? You watch the draft and you'll see everything he's got. You know what I want to talk about though? Accelerator, active energy drinks. A lot of wonderful flavors, you know, beautiful cans. This one right here is berry lemonade. They're fitting as many fruits as they can in these suckers, with a lot of plant-based thermogenics and natural caffeine.

It'll give you going for the combine or the draft. The actual draft. Accelerator and it's drinks. Give you energy. You can find accelerator at Target, Albertson, Safeway, Quick Trip and Hivey. So, that's our Daniel Jeremiah interview. DJ. Thank you so much for joining the show DJ. It was awesome to have you on and

a reminisce. Give me my scouting report. How about that? What'd you think? I thought it was awesome. I think he was spot on with you. Got a lot of questions for you DJ on how you thought I was the third best tight end on the board. We had a few we had it was a good tight end class. It was a good tight end class. So I can't be mad at that. There We had a few we had it was a good tight end class. It was a good tight end class So I can't be mad at that there was even a few tight ends. I got taken after me that had a pretty good career Who got taken after you Jordan Reed Jordan read out of Florida. Yeah, he was a dog

You want to run some routes that boy around some shit up? I mean, let's be honest. The only Jeremiah wasn't the only person that had Tyler Iferton Zach Urchray above you. You're right And I I have to live with that for the rest of my life. You don't have to live with it It worked out great. You end up getting drafted again to city playing with Andy Reed. No I wasn't even the first center drafted to the Philadelphia Eagles that year Fuck Julian Vanderbilt he was a guard center that was taken in the fifth round. I was drafted in the sixth round.

Well, can't keep a Kelsey boy down. I'll tell you what. I would love to know what he thought Tyler and Zach did better than me. Well, they probably interviewed better based on what you said. Daniel wasn't in those interviews. Now we're just playing telephone. See, I didn't knew it. These guys on TV are just going by word of mouth.

I knew it. I knew it. And Tyler went to Notre Dame. Those are probably too good in the room. Automed, yeah, Autobaglia. They just, yeah, well, they went to class. So they know how to at least conduct themselves in a fucking room.

Me over here, just like, well, it's a little too quiet in here. You guys want to hear a joke? Zachary's band out. Let's just be honest. Zach band out. We can send it. Tyler, I for it was a pro boulder. He just got banged up and had to deal some, some, I believe some ankle injuries that this has never got better for him. And you know what I mean? That's, there's a lot of fortune that comes into being, uh, uh, not even just a successful Titan, but a guy that can get to 10 years, this game is...

We both been really lucky. It's a game that puts a lot of strain, a lot of stress on your body, man. But by all means, not what I'm saying. I'm not trying to take shots at either Earth's, Iford or any of the other Titans, Vance McDonald, Gavin Eskkobar any of the guys that Went before me or after me, you know what I mean? I'm just saying in my mind

Do you think them better than me? That's all that's all I just want to know I'm curious DJ Do you think you were the number one Titan on Kansas City's board that year? Oh my gosh, I want to know now We got my ass. I'm gonna ask I have to ask John Dorsey. I my gosh, I want to know now. We have to, I'm going to ask, I don't have to ask John Dorsey. I think we got to go to the head. Oh, John would be a good one. John Dorsey, but I think Vita was a scout. Vita was, was a scout. Yeah. Vita was a scout in Philly and then he went with Andy to Casey. We got to ask the head man himself. Big red. I mean, I'd love to get him on the show hey coach Travis

You want to come on our show? What'd you say do you want to go get a burger? Hey, coach, you know how we just how I just want you that's your book you get my pockets Say real fast say real fast One of those like when you were calling drunk man. I hope this goes to voicemail I hope it goes to voicemail DJ. Thank you very much for for sitting down with my big brother talking a little combine and The scouting world then all the madness and Indy that weekend We appreciate you big time and thank you for putting a putting me in my place and telling me I'm not shit

I appreciate that it helps me kind of fuels the fire even more today 10 years later It's it's good to know that sometimes you I don't suck. You just suck I don't think it's like the one else. I like that. I like the feeling It goes into being a hydraff pick and there's a lot of guys that end up being great players that are hydraff picks and It's just the part of the imperfect nature that is the NFL draft. And it's certainly panned out for both of us and DJ you're the man brother. That wraps up the combine edition in New Heights. Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube to the New Heights channel so you know when new episodes

and content is being dropped. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and make sure you check out the official merch including the new merch over at omage.com slash new heights. You heard the man! Head over to omage.com. Get you stamp of the week shirt or no dumb questions shirt or any of the fun tees that we got on there. It's always it's always cool man homage is a high-o-based and I've been wearing the shirts for years man. Once again new heights is a juxtaposed original show presented by Wavesports and entertainment and brought to you by our friends at Fireball baby that's cinnamon to lad I need some right now.

Follow the show on all social media platforms at New Heights show with 1S for fun clips throughout the week. And thanks to our production and crew. We're living a wild and wacky off season already and you guys have been awesome. Finding ways to keep this train running, baby. And shout out to all the 92%ers, baby.

Yeah, yeah, yeah! We love you guys. I appreciate you guys tuning into the Combine episode. See you guys soon. Peace! Bye.