New Heights with Jason and Travis Kelce - The Taylor Swift Episode

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

92%ers, welcome to a very special pre-season episode of New Heights!On today’s episode, we are joined by singer, songwriter, producer, director, and the most requested guest in the history of New Heights, Taylor Swift! Taylor joins Travis and Jason to talk about her journey to reclaim her master recordings, what she’s been up to after the record-breaking The Eras Tour, her experience as a member of Chiefs kingdom, and all the details on her new album, The Life of a Showgirl! The Life of a Showgirl is available on October 3rd. Pre-order now at https://taylorswift.comNew Heights will return August 27th to kick off the NFL season. You can also listen to new episodes early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. ...Download the full podcast here:Wondery: https://wondery.app.link/s9hHTgtXpMbApple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-heights/id1643745036Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/1y3SUbFMUSESC1N43tBleK?si=LsuQ4a5MRN6wGMcfVcuynwFollow New Heights on Social Media for all the best moments from the show: https://lnk.to/newheightshowCheck out all the New Heights merch at https://homage.com/newheights See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

All right. Let's get to the part of this show that I think is what everybody is going to be talking about. Do I get to say it? Do I get to say the two words? Yes. First of all, you can do whatever you want, Taylor. I don't know. We're not going to review. This is very much whatever.

I want to work within the framework of the podcast. I'm a fan of the podcast. Typically, we would allow the guest to say new news. Yeah, yeah, I want to do it. I think Taylor has a little bit of new news. Welcome back to New Heights, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, 92 percenters. We missed you. This is a very special episode of New Heights, a Wondry show.

We are your host. I'm Travis Kelsey. This is my big brother, Jason Kelsey, out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio. University of Cincinnati grad, Sinci. Wow, baby. Baro Head can't come soon enough, baby. Let's go, Bearcats. Let's go, baby.

Subscribe on YouTube, Wondry Plus, wherever you get your podcast and follow the show on all social media. New Heights show with one ask for fun clips throughout the week. Jason, oh, we got it good. Why don't you tell the people what we got coming up? That's right. 92 percenters,

you may remember when we said New Heights wasn't coming back till August 27th. Well, that was a lie. That was a lie. And hopefully you can forgive us because we got a, as Travis said, we have a very special episode today that we just simply could not turn down.

That's right. This is a special preseason episode that we decided to bring to you a little early. So let's not waste any of their time, Jason. Let's get right to it. You want to do the honors? Our guest today is the singer, songwriter, producer, and director from Nashville, Tennessee.

That's bullshit. She is from Reading, Pennsylvania. She is the most awarded hardest in the history of the American Music Awards, Billboard Music Awards, and IHeart Radio Music Awards. She has 14 Grammy Awards and is the only artist in the history to an album of the year four times.

Last December, she wrapped up the Aresour, which spanned 149 shows across 51 cities. Five continents. It was the most attended to her of all times. Of all time. I'm still going. Hold on for her last album, the Torture Poets Department, set a record with 1.76 billion streams globally within the first week alone. All right.

And as a fan of that guy on the Chiefs, she has 19 wins, two ASC titles, and a Super Bowl. Are you ready for it? Making your podcast to debut, the most aggressive deaths in the history of shows, Taylor Swift! That intro, Jason! Oh, my God! I've seen this before. No, look, his soul has left his body. Just breathe, Jason.

No, that was so good. Thank you. I tried, Ted. Thank you for screaming for like 47 seconds for me. That was so nice. I'm shaking right now. I'm shaking, Tay. No, you did a great job.

Take a deep breath. Did I get everything? How much more could we have put in that? I felt like that was... That was such an amazing intro and also just like, thanks for wearing the merch. That goes a long way. Just like immediately makes me feel comfortable, just looking deeply into my own eyes. Okay.

All right. That's what I was going for. It's a good t-shirt. Well, thanks for having me. This is my first podcast. This is amazing. Thank you for coming on. What took you so long to jump on podcast?

You know what? I just, I was waiting for you guys to invite. me. This is my favorite podcast. So we've already been over this. You're a big fan of the show. You're a 92% or what are your favorite segments that you hear Travis and I go into on a routinely basis? I like new news just because of the screaming. Like I hear him screaming new news from across the house constantly. It's like my favorite part. Like he'll be like new news, new news. And I'm in the kitchen. And I'm in the kitchen. Be like, no news. So I love that because of just the bellowing of it. Like I love no dumb questions.

That's a banger. I really like it when you give people advice. It's kind of my personal favorite. Do you usually agree with the advice or do you just like listening to it? I mean, I think that like you guys give such male-centric advice, which I think is just like just dudes who don't want drama. Dudes who are trying to avoid the mess. But sometimes you're going to like do a bit and say the messiest thing that they could do,

which is funny too. So we're going to ask the question. Everybody watching the show is currently asking, why are you coming on the show? Why do you guys? What are you doing? You have so many better things to do with your time. This podcast has done a lot for me.

I owe a lot to this podcast. This podcast got me a boyfriend ever since Travis decided to use it as his personal dating app about two years ago. Worked pretty good. Yeah. Hey. Were his friendship bracelets that good? Did you give the friendship bracelets or was that just on the podcast? I've never been.

I've never seen the original. Yeah, they didn't leave the stadium because I was. was butt hurt Jason. He was, he was through a tantrum. He threw a man tantrum. He's out of here. It's so funny. My plan is ruined. She loves me. She loves me. She loves me. She loves me. She loves me. She hates me. Like, it was such a wild romantic gesture to just be like, I don't want to date you. Like on. I don't know. It was at first when I looked at it. I was like, this dude is. That's what it does when you're on the stage and you perform in Arrowhead. That's what it did. This dude didn't. This dude didn't. get a meet and greet. He's making it everyone's

problem. That's what I thought at first. And then I was like, you come to Arrowhead. I get to meet you. That's the perk of playing for the chiefs. You realize he didn't even reach out to our management. I was like, when this podcast came out, I was like, did he ever reach out to be like in the tents or did we know he was in the building? He came with Pat and he thought that because he knows the elevator

lady that he could talk to her about just getting down to my desk. It works. Just go. And I got denied. That's how it works in 1973. Um, the elevator was just invented. But yeah, but he, but yeah, he really just was like, I know a guy. I can figure this out. But I actually, when I thought about it, I was like, actually, we live in a day and age where, like, I'm not a very, I'm not an online person at all. Not like on social media like that and like I'm genuinely terrified to open my DMs.

Smart. It's just like, it's just like there's smoke coming out of my DMs. I don't want to go near that. I don't know what you want somebody to go through it. I'll go through it just because I'll laugh my ass off. It's like if you have like 20 million unread DMs, you're just like, ah. So this kind of felt more like I was in an 80s John Hughes movie and he was just like standing outside of my window with the boom box. Just being like, I want to date you.

Yeah. Do you want to date you? Yeah. Do you want to date you? Just come outside and meet me. Just meet me once. Give me a chance. I was like, this guy isn't crazy, which is a big if.

This is sort of what I've been writing songs about. wanting to happen to me since I was a teenager. And I was sitting there at the Airst Tour listening to every single one of those songs. Like, she, I know what she wants me to do. I feel that. That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, she wants me to do. She's like, this is just her wish list of like, meet me. Please.

Now I'm butt hurt. Yeah. I'm upset that you didn't meet me even though you didn't know I wanted to meet you because I didn't do any proper logistical planning. Who plans now? It was typical Kelsey. It was wild. It was wild, but it worked.

I'm glad it worked. I'm just circling back to New Heights to say thank you for this. Look at this. I'm the luckiest man in the world. So, yeah. And thank you to New Heights, all the editing. Jake, thank you for putting that on social media and letting it do its course. Before we move on, how did you know he wasn't crazy?

Because that's the other side of that, right? Like a guy goes up there and professes his love for you. It's either one, it's like this could be the most romantic thing in the world. It can also be like, this is. He is crazy, Jason. But there's a, there's a right crazy. Yeah, he's the good kind of crazy. And I knew that he wasn't crazy the first couple of times that we talked.

I was just like he's, he's truly like, he's truly getting to know me in a way that's very natural, very pure, very normal. Like, also like, just the way that he could make me laugh so immediately, um, about normal things. The, like, Travis is like, he's just a. vibe booster in everyone's life that he's in. He's like a human exclamation point. Like, you know, he's like when you take a picture on your phone and you put the like, you push the enhanced color button. That's like what you do to everyone's life. I just, I'm always exclamations. I got a lot of explanations. I use so many more exclamation points now.

But I think it was just like you also you were so, you're so non-judgmental about people and you were not judgmental about the fact that I knew nothing about the world you were in. It was the best. You were nice. You were so nice. I got a clean slate. You were like, thank you. She doesn't know any of my fans.

Are you kidding me? Jason, on our first date, I literally, I legitimately asked him what it was like when the chiefs played the Eagles in the Super Bowl and he looked across the field across the line of scrimmage and saw his brother standing on the other like five feet in front of him on the field. Yeah. And he was like, he was. And he didn't even, he didn't even look at me.

Like, I now know what an. insane question that was. He was like, actually, I'm on the offense and my brother's on the offense. And I'm only on the field at the same time as the defense. I thought everyone was on with the same time. I thought that the quarterbacks. I mean, that's how you played it on the playground growing up. So I understand if you hadn't like. No, you don't understand. I thought it was like Jared Goff is here and Josh Allen's here. And they're going to be like, they blow a whistle and then they go at each other and they're like, er,

and it's like, who's going to win? That's actually, I would love to see Jared Gough play some defense. Let's see Jared Gough on defense. I've got some ideas. I've got some thoughts. Yeah, I didn't know what a first down was. I didn't know what the chains were.

I didn't know what a tight end was. I am forever thankful for you diving into the football world, wholehearted. Oh, my God. I fell in love with it. I became obsessed with it. I became like a person who was running through. the halls of my house screaming, we drafted Xavier Worthy. And my friends were like, what is who body snatched you? This is, this is, what do you mean? We drafted Xavier worthy. I forget where I was,

but you were the first person to tell me that we drafted the fastest man in the draft. No, I was screeching. I couldn't believe it. I was freaking out. We're talking about like, I'm like, wait, does she, she, she right? I got to look this up. I'm like, she, she get the wrong information here. But yeah, we trade it up. Yeah. We're talking about cover two, cover four, cover zero, man. We're talking, we're learning. I continue to learn.

Maybe somebody else that even knows what those coverages are. Yeah, I'm not ready to be an analyst right now. That's been, yeah. Give me 16 months. You're going to pick up on it. I'm telling you, you would ask some of the best questions when we were up in the booth. And there's like your desire to learn more, but your genuine excitement around it, as well as like your competitive.

She's not fucking around. No. Tay's not fucking around. Oh my God. She's not fucking around. Reclaiming Masters, you want to do the soundtrack? Yeah, let's tee it up. One of, one of my favorite things this summer was Taylor reclaiming her masters.

Her recording of her first six albums finally became hers. Yep. And you haven't really talked about it. You made that beautiful post on all your social channels, thanking everyone that made it happen and everything, but why don't you tell the 92% or how it really felt? Oh, wow. So to catch anyone up who doesn't know about this saga, like, I signed a record deal when I was 15, and I always kind of refer to it as I got my music back this summer,

but I never owned my music at all. So traditionally, a lot of record deals are set up in a way that artists don't own what's called their master recordings. owning your master recordings means that you have complete control and power over distribution, licensing, and essentially the way your legacy is shaped. It's a huge thing. It's always been a huge thing for me. Like since I was a teenager, I've been actively saving up money to buy my music back and to ever own it in the first place, because it's usually the label that owns it. But I've always wanted this to happen. So it's been

sold. My music has been sold a few times. The first time that it was sold, it really ripped my heart out of my chest. And I told everybody exactly how that felt for me and what I was going through. And I started basically defiantly re-recording my music because I wanted to own it. And this was the only way I thought it was ever going to happen. And so I knew she had a bad kid. And she's got, she's got a little bit of a bad kid. Yeah. It's not a bad kid. That's a fucking savvy kid. That's what that is. That's like, hey. I've been told I've been defined a lot of times.

Well, you are defined. You're very defined. It's like I, I, I, um. Insubordinate, Travis. Insubordinate. Yeah, it's, it's, I think for me, you know, that was the closest I ever thought I would get to owning my music. And so re, re, re-recording my music, it was so exciting to get to have that opportunity.

But there was still, like, I thought about not owning my music every day. It was something that I never was. It's like an intrusive thought that I had every day. And so we do the Ares Tour. After the Ares Tour, I had a meeting with my team, and we decided this might be a good time to approach the current owners of it. The owners of it was a private equity firm called Shamrock Capital. I knew them to be above board people. You know, they had been very friendly to us.

what I was looking to do, though, was I wanted to buy my music outright. I don't want to be in a partnership. I don't want to own 30% of it. I want to own all of it. But it was a long shot to think that they would do that, that they would sell that asset to me. It's a big asset. It's a huge decision for them to make to sell that to anyone, including me.

I decided that rather than this be like a business conversation, I, I, I, I'm in the business of human emotion. I would so much rather lead heart first in something like this because for me, this is not, oh, I want to, I want to own this asset because if it's returns, because if it's, you know, because of the dividends that I will receive over the years. This was, I want it because this is my handwritten diary entries from my whole life. These are the songs I wrote about every phase of my life. This is my photography, my music videos, my, most of which I funded.

You know, my artwork, everything that I've ever done is in this catalog. And so rather than send lawyers or management, like in a big crew, I sent my mom and my brother, who I work with to L.A. And they, sorry, they sat down and they like, this happens. I don't ever really talk about it because it's, they sat down with Shamrock Capital. and they told them what this meant for me. Like, this is, they told them the whole story of all the times we've tried to buy it. All the times it's fallen through. All the times we had gotten plans together and figured out something we thought was going to work.

And it didn't at the last minute. And so, like, my mom calls me afterwards. She's like, look, you know, they were wonderful. They heard us out. We have no idea which way they're going to go with this. And so I was like, I get it. I get it. I haven't gotten my hopes up about this in a day.

decade. And so it was a couple months after the Super Bowl, we're in Kansas City. And I get a call from my mom, and she's like, she's like, we, we did, you got your music. And so sorry that this is, it's literally been so long since this happened. It's every time I talk about it. she was like you got you got your music and I just like very dramatically hit the floor for real like honestly just started bawling my eyes out and I'm just like just just weeping and kind of like unable I was just like really are really really what do you mean what do you

mean I'm like get get yourself together get your shit together like just go tell Travis in a normal way. And I knock on the door. He's playing video games. And I'm trying to say it in a normal way. And I'm just like, Trevor! Like, oh no. What just happened? What just happened? And he's like, he like puts his headset down. He's like, guys, got to go. And I think you thought something was wrong. And you come up and I'm just like, like that. And then just start absolutely heaving, crying. Just deadweight, just deadweight, all control. Had no power in my legs to support myself. And, um, Yeah, this changed my life.

I can't believe it still. Every time I think about it, it's like, I have to tell the short version to everyone because it is still like this, this will affect the rest of my life. I think about this every day now, but instead of it being like an intrusive thought that hurts me, it's, I can't believe this happened. Like, how lucky am I? How grateful am I? I'm so grateful to like the artists that helped me with my re-records because when

I did my re-records, I started doing those in 2021. And a lot of, like, most of the industry trades were like, this is a bad idea. This is her sort of derailing her career in a way. Nobody's interested in you doing the same album twice. Fans are not going to be engaged with this. This is not going to go well for her. Somebody knew though. And it was like, I still was able to like reach out to friends of mine like, like Phoebe Bridgers, Keith Urban, Marin Morris, Chris Stapleton, you know, Haley, Williams from Paramore, Fall Out Boy, like all these absolutely incredible artists that like shape who I am as an artist. And they like agreed to be a part of the re-records. And I like, you know, I, one of the only people I told before this happened was like I called Phoebe Bridgers and I was just like,

and she's like, I think you just, did you just say what I think you said? And so this has just been like. It was just, I'm so grateful for it. It's, um, it's just unbelievable. And I was so happy you were there when that happened. I mean, I was. Because I could not stand. Yeah, I mean, I started crying too.

You know, I'm a crying. I was, I was just so happy for you because I've seen, I've seen how you make music. I've seen how you make these videos, seen the effort and the focus and the strategy behind what just one album in Torture Poets Department and, and in Fortnite. And I was blown away that you had been doing this. your entire life. And for your first six albums, you weren't given the rights to all of that. And I know what that looked like.

And I know how much it burns you that, that you didn't have that. And you didn't have your creation. And I just, I think doing it the right way, creating the fan base that you did the right way, and leading your life in a direction that you were eventually going to get it back somehow some way because of you always doing things with the right intentions. Thanks. So I guess how does music ownership, this is so crazy to me. So you wrote these songs, you sang these songs, you put everything into them.

And don't get me wrong, there's publishing companies of people that support artists out there. But how does ownership of music even work? Like when you recorded these songs when you were 16, right, is that like, you're the singer? You don't it down to us, 92%. The singer gets a certain portion. The artist gets or the songwriter gets a certain portion. And then the publishing company gets a certain portion. Okay.

So this is, that's a great question. And there's two main categories that we're talking about here. So master recordings is the actual recording. Yes. It's the actual vocal band production, mixing, mastering, that actual thing. Yes. Mine also included my album, art. work, my music videos, everything that went along with any era of music that I had done for my first

six albums. Got every era. So then there's also, then there's another category, which is publishing. I own my publishing, which is why, you know, I have control over, you know, if my song is used in a film, and I, and I wanted them to use Taylor's version instead of the original version, and I, the songwriter, can decide that. Got it. Okay.

You know? And so it's like I basically, I've always been very lucky because my publishing was protected. A lot of artists have their publishing sold away from them or they sell their publishing. And I, you know, and a lot of artists, it may not be important to them. It was always important for me. The publishing aspect of it has always been something I've had firmly in place, which is great because my songwriting is the core of why I do this. why I love it so much and what I think has made anything happen in my career at all.

Greatest songwriter of all time. That's very nice of you to say that. It's like, says her boyfriend. Says a lot of people. Basically, then you have the master recordings side of things. Now, this is a discussion that was not really brought up amongst the artist communities, especially not with fans. This was all kind of industry-centric and kind of boring,

contract stuff that like fans were not speaking about. And so one thing that I think is really great that has come about because of this is that I have so many new artists come up to me now and say, hey, I didn't even know this was a thing. And when I went to go and negotiate for my record deal, I negotiated to have my masters revert back to me after a certain amount of years or that I own them outright. And it's not for everyone. Not everyone cares about this.

to artists, artists have different priorities. Some artists sell off all their masters because everyone's allowed to have their own priorities. What I wanted, though, is that if I were to put the information out about what I went through, at least it gets artists talking about this to decide whether this is a priority for them. Because you can't know if it's a priority for you unless you know what has come before you and what has happened. And so the master recordings thing, that's your actual ownership of your recordings. to put it in perspective, if I never would have been able to buy back my music,

one day, someone else would be leaving all of my music from my first six albums to their kids and their will. Right. Yeah. And you think about it like that. It's like, I thought of it, I made it, I recorded it, I paid for most of those music videos. You know, I wanted an opportunity to buy that back. And that was important to me.

You feel like they're yours. They should be yours. Yeah. Exactly. Do you think it was easier for you? to do one because you're, I mean, just you talking about this. You're so aware of the business side of this and the legal ram of like you're more aware than I think probably most artists are. But being a-smartist woman in the world. It's crazy. Being a songwriter, smartest woman in the world.

You being the songwriter, being the singer, owning no publishing rights, being able to re-record songs, that gave you leverage and able to make this move, right? Yes. Yeah. Yes. So that was, And also, you know, in my contract, they didn't put a clause in that said I couldn't re-record because nobody was doing it and nobody thought that was a good idea. Right. So, and also like who would be that stubborn? Like, who would be, who would be that petty? This badass kid over here.

They would record every single thing over and over again. What was your favorite one? Well, not just that. Hold on, Bill. We're not just that. Who has a fan base that's going to listen to the same. album twice in a row. It's a good point, Jason.

It's a good point. Like, honestly, and this is where they missed it. You had this diehard community that you had already built. That's the thing. You sold a story with the second time you released this album, right? And the fans got behind that narrative. And they're like, screw the first album. We're rolling with the re-recorded album because we're supporting the artists.

They were like, we ride at dawn. And it was amazing because, you know, they're the reason why the re-records worked out. They're the reason I was able to purchase my music back because they came to the Aeros Tour. And basically they're the reason why any of this worked out. And I also want to note that like the other people who are like, we ride at Don, my live band, they played on all the re-records. It's like you want to know why they sound so perfect on the Ares Tour. They played on all those records, like their session musicians too. And that's how good they are.

And I'm so impressed just by their ability and their dexterity as musicians to be able to do that so convincingly. Because there are actually some, there's the Taylor's version's one I kind of refer a lot of that stuff. I think it sounds incredible. But I'm happy to have all of it. So that leads me to the next question, Tay. Now that you own all of it, you have the re-recordings, you have the original recordings. What should we listen to? Like what, do I, do I roll with the, does it matter?

You're just like, whatever you guys want? Yeah, it's, it's really whatever you guys want. Because I love both of them. I would not have put out the re-records if I didn't think that they held up or were better. I think a lot of the vocals I did on the re-records are better than the originals. Okay. But it's like if you found a nostalgia in the originals and that was what you were listening to when you were 12 years old bopping around in your bedroom, go crazy.

Yeah. We got them all. I'm going to start doing comparisons. That's what I got to do. I just got to start doing comparisons. You're going to listen to every beat. You're certainly, it's not mandatory, Jason. I mean, it sounds like a good time.

I'll say this. There's a few good playlist out there that have a mixture of them all. You've been streaming? Yes. Thank you. I've been streaming for about two years now. Oh, that's fantastic. Thank you so much.

That's why we got that spike in the 35-year-old male demographic. Yes, that 1.7 billion. That was at least 1 billion. We have one IP address from one iPhone that continues. continually is listening to this story. Did you have a favorite album that you re-recorded that, like, are there different eras that you liked recording more re-recording? I really liked them all, but I think Red was very special.

There were songs that I called From the Vault songs, and there was one, which I think is maybe my favorite song I've ever written called All Too Well, The Ten Minute Version, where I unearthed. There were, there were originally so many more verses. that song then ended up being on the album that I had put out when I originally put out red. I made the glorious, fortuitous mistake of saying that to my fans in an interview. You know what those words mean. I love it.

You're so handsome. So basically, I said that in an interview to my fans, and they just like hung on to it. They were like, where's the 10 minute version? Give us the 10 minute version. Yeah. And when it came time to doing Taylor's version and re-recorded the album, I went back in, found the verses, restructured the song to the way that it pretty much was when I had originally written it, put them back in.

And that song is one of my favorite things I've ever done. And it was, when we're on the Ares tour, I'm watching people just like cathartically scream this song to the point where I'm like, do you need do you need to go to the hospital? It was so passionate the fan response to that song at the Ares Tour. And I remember thinking so many times like,

what if this never happened? Like, what if I never had to re- It's one of the most iconic parts of that tour? It was so fun. And so like, yeah, it really did make me fall back in love with that album specifically. I have a song with Phoebe Bridgers that I really love on that, you know, from the vault,

Chris Stapleton was a part of it as well. And I just, I think that one, I've always loved Fearless in 1989 in a very pure way. But Red, I've kind of gone back and forth over the years and been like, you know, like that re-recording, it made me just be like, oh, God, I love that album. I have no complicated feelings about that. I wouldn't have done anything different. Maybe except to include the original verses the first time. Well, we just talked about the different eras a little bit. talk about perhaps the most daunting thing that any artist has ever taken on, which is the heiress tour.

Oh, my God. You finally finished it up last December in Vancouver. I don't know. What did it feel like to wrap it up? What does it feel like now? Like not touring and being on a jet every day, basically trying to go from country to country. Yeah. I mean, it feels great, Jason, to be honest.

I'm not going to lie to you. You don't miss it? I miss it. I do miss it, but it's like it was perfect for what it was. Do you know what I mean? And it was a lot of, it was a lot of physical therapy and it was a lot of like being in a state of perpetual physical discomfort. Kind of like when you're in season, you know? Yeah.

No. I'm not getting hit by huge 300 pounders, but the heels. No, when I saw the recovery. stationed in the hotel room after with the toe spacers. I got an acupuncture that. I'm telling you, dude, the similarities were crazy. I'm like, oh my gosh. She does more than I do.

We're like comparing physical therapy stories like recovery stuff. Have you ever tried taping your angles? We related on how much. Big angle tape guy. Yeah, I miss it because I missed the fans and I missed that connection. But at the same time, it was so special. It was like the most formative time of my life. I learned so much about how far I can push myself.

And if I set a goal, you know, making that a three and a half hour show in the beginning of the tour. It's like, you can't like be sick one day and then decide tonight it's going to be two and a half hours. Right. And it's really just like prioritizing the fans experience before, before anything else. And my fellow. I can do it with a broken heart. Yeah. Don't get me started.

Like, dude. Don't you get me started. Or like stomach flu or like just like aching feet or blisters or whatever. Like it's it just was which she had all of this going through. Usually all at the same time. Going into her fourth show. Yeah. And it's just it was kind of the coolest thing in the world because when we were putting

together this tour, I had some really lofty goals. I wanted to reach conceptually because I wanted to show I wanted to show fans and especially younger fans. visuals and sort of performance art references that were really important to me as a kid and what inspired me to want to do this, right? So like I wanted to put elements of musical theater, Broadway, ballet, you know, scenery that you would see in an opera kind of- Who thinks like this?

I watched the whole tour. I just thought it was amazing. I didn't know this. But that's exactly it. I wanted it to be references that I thought were really high concept and really high value for fans and for them to see things they hadn't necessarily seen before all in one concert. But I wanted to do it at the highest intensity, rapid fire, you're seeing something new every 15 to 30 seconds. And so it feels like you're scrolling in an algorithm, right? And when I heard reports of people saying that they got actual and needs.

after the concerts, I was like, oh, I think we did it. Yeah. I think we did it. Nailed it. That's genuine. That's, I didn't even, wasn't even shooting for that goal when they're like, I saw so many things and I experienced a state of euphoria that I now don't remember what happened to me. I was like, oh, my God.

All I remember is that she didn't want to meet me. That's it. That's it. That's all he got about. And as much as much as you, and I've told you this, as much as you want to, you know, give New Heights credit. I give the errors to her credit. Yeah?

I give the errors to her credit because if I would have never gone to that show and been mesmerized and just being captivated. Yeah. And then left with such a desire to want to meet you. Oh. I would have never went on here and told everybody how butt hurt I was. Yeah. I had never just been so engulfed in the curiosity of who you were.

Oh, that's really. I really have. One of the best things about that last statement is, You didn't even know what the word engulf meant before like you met Taylor. Like this is, you've broadened your horizons so much. We're the perfect. I'm telling you. It's so, she makes me so much better.

Thank you for saying that. Thank you for saying that. But it's like you see you on the stage and you see how crazy you can get an entire stadium going. And then I get you at a room and it's like, I've known you forever. It's like it was just. the easiest conversation I ever had, and it was just so much fun that it just, uh, it, uh, knocked my socks off from what they say. Knocked your socks off. Yeah.

Thank you. That's, I felt the same exactly. She blew me away. And I had never, I had never experienced something so mesmerizing on stage and then so real and so beautiful in person. Hey, that's, should I, should I leave? Yeah, I think so. Honestly, at this point, I think everyone should leave. I don't know where to go from here now. What? How many countries did you do the ERIS tour yet?

47,000 countries, Jason. You just listed that in the beginning. I said 51 cities, which I don't know if that's right. It was a lot of countries. What was really fun about all the countries that we went to is when we first started dating, he was like, I always wanted to go and really, vacation in Europe and see Australia and, you know, go to Asia. And I was like, well, I got a tour for that, you know, it's coming up. No, nice. You got room for a six, five guy to

come hang out. Like, no, those dimensions are wild, but we'll make some room. I think we'll have to leave some equipment trunks behind. Thank you for accommodate the size. But absolutely we'd be happy to have you. We got to, you know, we got to travel the world and have vacations and adventures when I wasn't on stage, which was really fun because, like, Europe was so fun. Australia is amazing. Yeah. Yeah, it was great. And that entire part of our lives, like, I was on tour for so long, and now I finally am not on tour. And it's kind of great because I'm getting my hobbies back. Like when I was on tour, all I had the bandwidth for was what's the acoustic mashup this week? What, how do I say welcome to the heiress tour in Portuguese?

You know, that was the only thing taking up my brain space. And now it's, uh, it's been so fun to see what Taylor actually gets into around the house. It's like, I'd say all my hobbies could be categorized as like hobbies you could have had in the 1700s. You know, like I get on my granny shit. You enjoy doing all of these homey things. That's basically what you're saying? Yeah, I like to sew. I specialize, as you know, in children's purses and baby blankets.

I make two things. I do know that very well. Very good at these two things. I love to paint. I love to cook. I have a different baking obsession every six months. I have the luckiest man in the world. Right now.

Right now we're very deep in a sourdough obsession that has taken over my life. I am aware. And I'm very deep in it now. You've got me deep in this. I'm lucky. I'm working as much as I am and running as much as I am because I am, I am getting the caloric intake. Yeah, he asked me to send him two loaves of sourdough at training camp. I'm like, I'm like wrapping sourdough loaves in like, like saran wrap or whatever, like cling film.

The sourdough's taken over my life in a huge way. I'm really talking about bread 60% of the time now. It's become a huge, huge factor. I mean, and she's getting good with making all these different versions of it. Oh, yeah. My favorite one was probably, I mean, the regular sourdough is one of my favorites, but the blueberry. Yeah, we do. There's a blueberry lemon.

There's cinnamon swirl, cinnamon raisin. And this one I've been workshopping for the girls because they love everything rainbow, fun fettie sourdough. Oh my gosh. That's going to blow their mind. No, it will. Because they love sprinkles. Like we put, you know, we put sprinkles in everything when we hang out.

Yeah. It's really, yeah. She's a loafer for life now. Yeah. And it's gotten, it's gotten pretty crazy over here. I'm just like always like baking bread and texting my friends and being like, can I send you some bread. I need some feedback. Do you like this one better than you liked the other one? Like I did the rise a little differently. I'm on like sourdough blogs. There's a whole there's a whole community of us.

And I didn't know it. Oh my gosh. This is an underworld. The amount of people hoping that you're on their blog. Oh, I'm on your blog. Girl, I'm on your blog. But it's like I just didn't know this. There's people like me out there. and this is where the internet is good. This is where the internet is a good place where you can curate a reality where like all I really use the internet for is sourdough and when Travis shows me videos of otters on his Instagram algorithm.

I want a wild otter so bad. I just want to like find these little creatures to be friends with them. Why a wild one? Why wouldn't you? Because it's all, aren't they all wild? Oh no, there's domestic. There's domestic.

He wants one specifically whose life he saved, who knows that he saved his life. Who feels, yeah. It's a really specific type of otter he's looking for. The videos that I watch are somebody just in a canoe. Yeah, he doesn't want to, like, go up to an otter and take it from its mother. No. He wants to see an otter, and the otter's like, my paws caught in a shell. And he's like, I got you. And then the otter's like, thank you forever with its little paws.

And then it swims up. And then it's, and you're kayaking and it's like doing this to you. Like, that's what he wants. And I want it to, honestly. Who doesn't? I mean, who doesn't? Yeah. Right.

Yeah. So. Do otters eat bread? Can we get a sourdough eating otter? That might be the perfect. We're going to figure that. I don't know if they do. Oh, no.

They're probably. But yeah, we had discussed maybe like carrying around cans of sardines just in case we run into one. Nice. It's, it's better in principle than it is in practice. easier to conceptualize. It seems pretty easy though. You just got to go canoeing.

Which is also easier in principle than it is in practice for us in terms of just the weight balance. I'm on the hunt. I'm on the hunt for a friend. Yeah. Stuff you didn't know you needed to know, right? Jason. I mean, I love otters.

This is what life after heirs tour is though, Jason. You got to, it's so crazy. I'm retired. I am all in on this. I want to bake. I just don't have the planning behind it. Taylor's a plan. planner and she's going to have the sourdough alive. We're not going to keep a sourdough alive.

I've folded. What is it? What's the? He's actually done it. He's actually done it. Yeah, I've made a loaf. He's, he's had one of my loaves. He's done all of it. Like, we've set it up where it's like, I've got a station and he's got a station and he's done all of it. Okay. So he's actually I've stretched and folded before. Yeah. But there's just like something always slightly wrong with? No, his was actually, his rose higher than mine. His was more delicious than mine. it's like it's also you know no directions over here jason i get into the no chance jason you've had it and you said you loved it i'm not saying it's not good but it's no way as good as taylor's that's not true i'm telling you if you took like two chunks and you sent it off to the lab there's going to be

so many more germs and microbes and traffic oh my god oh ew the the bacteria account what is the fungus in this that's on this one oh no yeah that's the same sour, Jason, don't even... That's the sour. Okay. Why is their chest hair in it? How did you... There's like chest... The apron's too low. There's like chest hair and his. There's cat hair in mine.

It's just like both of these are completely inedible. But it's crazy how you can, how many puns you can make. Because I do the whole... I got bread bags and I got labels. And so it's, you can really go for it with the puns. You go. Are you ready for it? Are you ready for it?

Flower Song is the slamming's green door. That's horrible. It's a loaf story. Baby, just say yeast. Just say yeast. Yeah. What's the one I was doing? It's a loaf story.

I should have said dough. No, it's horrible. Loafing him was bread. It's bad. you don't know that song and that's okay I love you it wasn't on the tour tour so we do have this I did

fuck that up 21 countries does you learn anything throughout the play is there anything at the end of the tour when you were wrapping up that you wish you had been doing the whole time is there anything you would do differently now that the entire tour is wrapped up no I I'm really glad that I didn't know

it would have gone on as long as it did I'm glad that I got to like actually be prepared for this tour the way that I was because you know in previous tours I had noticed that I would get on the tour and I'd have to like get my stamina up throughout the tour and by the last quarter of the tour I'd finally hit my strides stamina wise and I'd be like oh I can do this easily every night yeah I wanted to be at that point at the beginning of the Erez tour so that's why I did so much more training so much more training and cardio and stuff that, you know, doesn't come naturally because I'm not an athlete.

So it's like that stuff I have to really force myself to do. Don't you say that? Don't you say that. I mean, it's how I don't even. It's not like I say that in a disparaging way. I don't care at all. But I just do we, why do we, why do we take it that way? It's not like, yeah.

I'm like I really, I'm not an athlete and that's fine. Like I play instruments. I take it that way because we're undefeated on the beer pong table. Ooh. I've seen you throw a football. No, that's not good and you know that's not good. It does. No.

You can. No. Spiral? Yes. You got to be really. It's better than me. Because it's not, there's no spiral. I don't think I've ever caught anything that's ever been thrown to me, near me, around me.

You're just disinterested in being an athlete. That's true. Can you hit something with a stick? That's a telltale sign of an athlete. Good with a stick. Yeah, no, I don't know, Jason. I've never tried that. We've got to try this out now.

We're going out back. After this, right? My relationship with sports was like, you know, I grew up in Pennsylvania. I always heard my dad yelling at the screen watching Eagles games. That was always the sports sounds that I heard in my house. However, I was up in my room playing guitar, learning instruments, playing piano. I was focused on different things. I was like so laser focused on music.

And that's how I was in school. Like I would go to sporting events so that I could sing the national anthem. Like everything was a means to an end to get me to. get to do music. I've, I know every halftime show from the Super Bowls, but I don't, I didn't watch the sports. And so, watching the airs tour and seeing that power skip, I knew you're an athlete from the, from the, from the from the power skip. That's, you're just saying words. It's one of my favorite parts. Just telling live. Just see you just skipping down that runway. Just looking like a giraffe.

Fitzlimbs were put on all wrong. Not everybody can, everybody can skip, but not everybody can power skip in heels. Oh yeah. That takes athleticism. Thank you. I appreciate that. Just saying. What a unique compliment. So, yeah, I definitely became obsessed with sports when it came to him. I'm competitive on his behalf. But, like, if you and me are going to go against each other in something athletic, like, I'm going to let you win because this to me, like, I don't see why. What did the points even mean if I'm doing it?

I'm a fan of athletics and the sports. If I'm doing the sports, like, I'm throwing like this because I don't, what, I don't really care if it goes where it's supposed to go. Interesting. It doesn't bother me. Until we're in a heated battle. I'm not embarrassed. That's fine.

She's a good teammate. So she'll give effort if it's teamed up. If it's individual sports, she's not going to care. But if she needs to be held accountable. If I'm on his team and we're playing beer pong or something, like I'm really trying. You're now you're in. You're a team sports. Because this is why.

Because this matters to him. Right? Absolutely. I'm a team sports gal. Yeah. Put me put me on an Olympic one person trying to do some stuff, sport. I'm doing this. Yeah.

I don't care. I'm doing out of here. Yeah. I'm doing this. I care. Okay. I'm doing this. I care. This care a lot. We're doing this. We're eating dough. I don't care. I don't care if this happens. I don't care if this goes here. It's not part of my metrics for my self-worth. All right. That's probably very healthy. To be honest with you. Hey, you know, I was like, as long as you're fine with this. No, I'm completely fine with you being an athlete. Yeah. I'm not an athlete. I'm never going to be. I think you just missed the whole point. Yeah. What? He sees what he wants to see, and it bodes well for me.

Do you have a favorite thing from the Eros Tour? I have a lot of favorite things from the Eres Tour. I would look out and I would see a lot of bonding happening between generations of people. Gosh, that's so true. It was really wonderful. It was like the most incredible feeling in the world because I can see all that. I've got LASIC. I have incredible vision.

Basically, the ERIS Tour. I think one of my favorite things was when the fans would come up with their own traditions, right? Oh, so cool. Because I can plan a stage show that's like, we know exactly what's happening when it's going to happen. It's very stage managed. It's a whole production, right? And I love to plan. But I also do love surprises.

Like, there's a time during the European, like, of the Erez tour. There's a song called Willow where we do a performance where we have these. It's a very, like, witchy performance. We have these, like, light up orbs and we're in cloaks, and it's all very, woo. And the fans decided that they were going to bring their own light up orbs. And by that, I mean balloons that they would blow up in the audience. And then they would light there. They would use their phone light behind it and create a light up orb.

When I tell you, I looked out. Yeah, or a glow stick, whatever. Like they would figure out ways to illuminate them themselves. And it was insane to look out and see spontaneously. thousands of these orbs just go up. And I'd just be like, I don't even know who organized this. Was there a group text? How did you guys even do this?

It was so special. It felt like we were all part of something together in a way that couldn't be planned. And there's, as much as I love and relish in planning, it was really fun that they would do things to sort of delight me every once in a while. They had little chance. They had all these traditions. By the end of the tour, it was like, Rocky Horror Picture Show where they have their own They have their own show. Literally.

Right. It was, I remember being in Gelsenkirken, Germany. And you know what? What did you just say? Gelsenkirken. Love is him learning that. Yeah. That's their actual, that's a city?

He came to Gelsenkirken. Gelsenkirken. I think that's how you said. I've never heard of this. If you say with a German accent, it probably sounds more like the actual city, but okay. My American accent is Gelsen Gelsen Gelsen Jersken. And I remember seeing that part of the show.

And they were literally. doing circles and like putting the orbs up in the air and passing them to each other like they were performing. It was so beautiful. It was crazy. They were so committed. I've never, I've never played for crowds that were as committed. Yeah.

So I think I love the event of it. Like I'm always, I'm always trying to figure out how to make music into more of an event, right? How do we make it romantic? How do we make it something that people experience together? And, you know, that's why I love vinyl. That's why I love, you know, putting so much into the tour or a music video or events or activities for them to do or Easter eggs or little puzzles for them to solve. Like it's gotten to the point where it's just like it's a little bit. People are like, the Easter eggs thing is getting a little Zodiac killer at this point.

I'm like as long as they like it, you know. How do you go about like knowing how to do an Easter egg? I don't even know. Like what does that process start? Are you like? Well, I have some parameters. What is the art of the Easter egg? The art of the Easter egg is that there's do's and don'ts, right?

Like, I'm never going to plant an Easter egg that ties back to my personal life. It's always going to be towards music or a musical, something I'm coming up with, something I have coming up, a plan I have coming together, something that you don't know I'm saying for a specific reason that you'll hear later and you'll go. go back and be like, oh my God. Like I think my favorite one of those was I was given an honorary doctorate from NYU and I made the commencement speech. And I put so many lyrical Easter eggs in that speech that when the Midnight's album came out after that, the fans were like, the whole speech was an Easter egg. Yeah.

And that's for me, that's really fun. because they find it fun. For sure. And also just I love numerology. I love math stuff. I love dates. I love certain. I just stuff like I find really fun.

And you know, I want Easter eggs to be a certain thing where like if you are a part of the fandom and you want to experience like music in a normal way, then then you don't even see these. You don't even care what that thing is above that doorway in under that dimly lit flickering light over there that's upside down backwards in braille. You don't need to know what that is. Yeah.

But if you want to look at that. But if you do, then it's there. Do you know what I mean? Like if you know, you know, you know. Oh yeah. Then you know. Then you know.

Let's talk about something I don't know. What is numerology? You threw that phrase out there like that's a comment. What is numerology? Do you don't know what numerology is? I'm assuming something with numbers. Yeah. like I'm 87 and she's 13.

Yeah. Literally it's that simple. Just numbers. And 100. Yeah. 13 plus 87 equals 100. That's numerology. Like numbers that have a specific significance.

Like, yeah, exactly. Keep it 100? Yeah. Do you not keep it 100 ever? I'm trying to. I'm, I attempt to. It's crazy that you don't.

What numbers do I have? You're admitting that like that. Kylie. I don't know how to do this. It's okay. It's not for everyone. My favorite number is 13, though. It always has been Travis.

I know. And that's part of the numerology of why we're dating. Okay. It's a part of it. Okay. It's been in my life. Right. Travis,

Travis likes people that like the number 13. Yeah. I love them. What is liking the number 13 say about us, though? It says that we're family in, okay. In trickadectophilia, I think it is. Is the, what the obsession with 13? No, man.

It's every day. dude this is every day that's a that's a real thing you know what that means he knows trichidalfa philia so that's the obsession with specifically number 13 or something i'm sorry yeah trisca deck trisca deca phobia is when you hate 13 trisca decafelea is when you love it philia is love i um i don't know why i do it was like everybody else was afraid of number 13 so i'm like yeah that's the phobia that's what okay yeah you're just being contrarian which i love I love that about you. All right.

You're just like, you want to do this? I'm going to do this. That's exactly how I sound. Oh, Jason. Let's get. Jason, Jason, Jason. Favorite thing about the heirs tour was besides going to it and just being like this amazed at everything. I think I was on another podcast recently.

Just like all of the songs, everything you just talked about where it changes so much, right? There's something new every 20, 30 seconds. It was incredible, the nonstop length of it. But I will, I'm going to be remiss if I don't say one of the things that I love is watching Travis Kelsey get on the stage, the man in the tuxedo. It was so good. It was so special. That was like, we were like, that came back because we were just doing, we thought we were doing a bit. Like, we both thought we were just joking. Because a lot of what we're saying is like inside of a bit and we're laughing the whole time. And every once in a while, one of us to be like, are you serious? Like I could be I'm I could be serious are you serious like I was I was serious in

And in terrifying fashion I was like yeah it was like a one wouldn't it be funny if kind of thing And I would try not to fuck this up it was so the show's perfect you don't want to fuck the show up do you I knew you were going to be down for I knew you were if you wanted to do it like I was never going to pressure you to do it but the fact that when when we were talking about about it. We were joking. I kind of got, I saw that little twinkle in your eye where I was, oh, he wants to do it. He wants to. He wants to. You want me to go on stage? Yeah, and you got up there. I mean, I'll do it. You were so good. Every single beat. His comedic timing is crazy. Like, and when the lights are bright, he's like, he like slows down time. Like, that's when he.

Well, no, I just black out and the hope that it ends out, like, perfect. That's, you said, you and I are saying the same thing. I did. I honestly, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I rose from that stage and I saw how many people are looking at you. I was just like blackout. You looked so good. It was so amazing. Like it was it was one of the loudest, if not the loudest screams I've ever heard on the tour. It was insane.

It really was. How many, Chav, you played football in some of the biggest stadiums you've been in front. People have been staring at your whole life. What was that moment like? There's nothing like this. Were you nervous? aunt. I felt like the smallest piece of life ever. Like that entire stadium, the floor. What are all these people doing on the field? How are holy, I didn't know this place felt like this.

Oh my gosh. What is going on? I have to pick her up now. Okay. Here we go. Don't drop her. Don't drop her. It's so funny that you were actually scared about that. You could like throw me over a mountain. and like climb the mountain and he catch me on the other side. Football players drop balls all the time. It's not a hit. Oh my God. It was so good. It was London.

It was Wembley Stadium. It was those were such special shows. And we had just, wasn't this the week that I got to watch Jason meet the royal family? It was. It was. Yeah. I knew you were serious when I was like, Jason, do you want to go meet? And he was like, what do I do?

What do I do with my beer? Yeah, I watched him have this moment with his beer where he's just like, but I want to take it. But I know that I probably should not take it. That's right. I watched this happen and it was kind of the most amazing. What do I do when I meet? I like that you picked up on it because that was exactly what's going to my head. If I don't, like if I don't have my beer, what do I do with this hand now?

Is it disrespectful to have a beer when you do royalty? Or am I just like being, being authentic by having the beer. I would normally have the beer. Wouldn't they want me to be myself? I'm watching you say that in your head. Yep. And it was fantastic. I don't know.

I'll always remember that. I was just like I'll always remember meeting you for the first time, Jason. Do we need to talk about that? That time I did hold on to my beer. You did. What was, I guess you brought it up. What was that first impression like? What was,

did you know I was told to be on by best behavior? I didn't know what you were told, but I did know that one of the first things I saw was like, you say to Kylie, I was just shotguning beers with the Bill's Mafia, and I really want to go through one. of the fire tables. Yep.

I want to jump through it. I want to jump onto the flaming table. And she goes, okay, can we not do that right now? Yeah, guy. And since then, I've heard her say that exact thing to your four-year-old about like, Mommy, I want to throw this pudding on the wall. Wouldn't that be fun? Can we not do it right now?

That's a common phrase for. And so I meet you. You're exactly as I thought you would be. Kylie is exactly as I thought she would be just like the realist, the smartest, the coolest. You're fantastic. Obviously, you know that. And then I swear to God, Jason, you flew through the window at light speed. I've never seen someone so big move so fast.

It's impressive. You know, you know when you see a cricket and it's here? Yeah. And then it's gone. and it's 16 feet that way. You're like, did it just jump that way? How did it do that? And he's surprisingly, he gets more athletic

than more drunk. I mean, it's real. It was wild. I really should have played in the NFL drunk. I think it would have been better. You know what? Not no. At this point, I would never argue with that.

And all of a sudden, like, you're out there in the snow. You're handing me children through the window. Like, it's fully. It's not my best moment. It was. And like, I think it actually was. And I'm really grateful. I was like, you want to see Taylor?

I got you. Let's go. Who's kid is that, Jason? Do you know where this kid came from? Yeah, it was, I think it was your best moment. And I think I'm very lucky to have gotten to see it. I love this like new world that Travis has shown me. Because I really, it's so fun.

It's so exciting. There's so much pressure on these players that I didn't. I kind of was like, I've only ever been in music and been like, you know, seeing that, but the pressure on sports is just such a different type that I have such a respect for everyone. Like everyone I meet on his team, like everyone I see doing this, I'm just like, you've been focused on this since you were a kid. And it shows. Well, and I'm sure there's a lot of relatability there. Anybody trying to be the best of what they do and dedicating their lives to it. I mean, yeah. Yeah. And I've been, I've been so lucky because I never have gotten to see what the suite

looks like when I play the game. Because they didn't have a camera on it. I never get to see my friends and family. I never get. So now whenever I make a play, I get to see it what it actually looks like, how much fun they're having, what, you know,

the type of support that I get and how crazy it gets. So the Vegas Super Bowl, there was a camera on the suite and when Nicole scored that touchdown and to see everybody in that suite start jumping on each other. People are body slamming each other into other rooms. It was so violent.

It's giving me the chills right now. I'm the luckiest guy in the world. That video. To get everybody going crazy. People went down. Like, there were people punching each other. It was like absolute chaos. And like I have, I have every memory of that.

Like, every memory of that moment is intact. But it's just like screaming and thrashing around and trying not to be taken down by this undertow of your friends going absolutely in shit. I loved every bit of it. Oh, it was so insane. I mean, the suite that is the Travis Kelsey suite that has been happening, what was your first impression of that of everybody in there? Oh, man.

Who's the MVP of the suite? Okay. So he's got, which is an incredible, like a huge green flag is that Travis has had the same friends since he's probably four years old. Yes. Literally. And he's incredibly good at maintaining friendship. and he's so loyal and his friends are equally loyal.

And they're just the funniest, most hilarious group of people. Yeah. And you want to talk about Green Flags. The first game she went to, the Bears game, she literally went through the front door of the stadium. Yeah, we walked right in. Just right in, like the, like general admission? Through general admission, through with the everybody on the bus to the game.

Oh, my gosh. And I was just like, oh, she's just in it. She's down for the ride. She's here for the fun. She's like, I'll fucking go, I'll go through the mud. I'll be a part of Chief's Kingdom. Like, this is where we walk in. This is where we walk in.

I don't know what to tell you. I don't have an alternative. I'm like, you know, we just played here three months ago. Yeah. And we went a different way, but I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to backseat drive this shit. What was that like? What were people doing?

I remember using like Ross was like, Ross is so tall and so and so broad. That it's like that, that helps a lot. and then just you have a lot of other just like big bulky dudes that you're friends with. Green flag, not threatened by other guys. That's right. At all. I was walking in with, I had a hat on and I had a mask on. And I'm walking in just in the front where we're walking in with thousands of people in Arrowhead.

And nobody noticed. Oh my gosh. There were rumors that we had been seeing each other. But I think people were like, what would they talk about? Yeah. You know? Yeah. I hinted on the Pat McAfee show that I was going to see if you would be willing to come see me rock the stage at Arrowhead.

Yeah. Since I've seen you make the stadiums so much. But nobody was like, oh, yeah, we're definitely going to, we're definitely going to see her there. And we're going to see her coming in through general admission. That way this guy landed her. No chance. No chance that whole podcast thing worked. I didn't believe it when you told me.

You manifested it. I did. Yes. You summoned me. Here I am. Andy Reid has recently revealed that he was the one who set you guys up. How true is this revelation by Big Grid? Whatever Andy Reid says we're going to stand by.

We're not going to refute anything. He says it. Cupid. Big Red. It's all the same. That's what happened. He's been friends with my dad. My dad is the most social man who's ever been born.

Shout out to Scott. I was about to say who's not friends with Scott. He's just like, he's just a maniac. He will make a friend in an airport in 1970. have a five-minute conversation and still be talking to that dude twice a week now. But he's like that with everyone he meets. Like he's able to have very many, very meaningful relationships. And it's a skill.

It's a talent. It is. It is a mind-boggling talent that I have only known him to have. Yeah. Yeah. He's a savant. It is impressive. He is a savant.

Social savant, my dad. And so he knows Andy and, you know, Andy's been coming to shows for years and stuff like that. So I've always had like a really positive vibe about Andy Reed. I didn't really know what the sports were that he was doing. But I knew that that was my dad's friend, Andy Reid. You knew he was really good. I now know he is literally the most iconic, legendary coach of all time.

And like from the way that you talk about him, his leadership style is so, I respect it so much. Right. Because I feel like it's done without like aggression or raising your voice or losing your composure. It's all very composed and focused. It can happen. You will rip you apart for sure. But like not in a... You got to be really like not running the plays he's calling them.

Yeah, but that's the thing. It's like, but it's not done. It's not overdone, right? Like if you get it from him, you know you deserve it and you're going to shape up. Exactly. That's what I heard from you. Exactly. And yeah, there's validity to it.

There's like, there's so, there's such a genuine, like, want to get better that him getting you to like do it the right way is a it's like a disciplinary thing it's just like he he won't he wouldn't be doing it unless he saw the greatness in you or he saw your ability to get it right and he wouldn't be doing it this way if there was any other way if that makes sense it does there's a lot of heart yeah there's a there's a stoicism too which makes the heart when he shows it to you and I think this is what you're kind of saying taylor he's so like composed and so like locked in and then all of a sudden when he does show that little bit of like warmth it's like oh here's the teddy bear i see him he's in there he's funny he's cheeky yeah and then but it's like everything has a reason

like everything is every everything is very like intentional he's like i feel like he like coaches and lives in a very intentional way which i think is really awesome and it's just like a great leadership style yeah there's a layer of trust and there's a layer of like discipline where you you're gonna have some fun playing with for him but you're gonna know when you got to flip that switch to be serious and be on point and do it his way. He says it all the time. He's got 51%. I was like, yeah, all right.

Whatever you say, boss. I always feel like when you lose your shit, you lose your leadership. Yeah, for sure. It's just kind of something I've always kind of tried to administer in what I'm doing. But he's a huge role model for that is how he motivates people and how he does so without flying off the handle and is just very focused on what the right thing is at the right moment. You know? Yep.

So what, so did Andy tell Scott something? Is that what I'm trying to, what did Andy say, Scott? I mean, okay, so when you guys did the full send on the podcast. Yes. It was a full send. And he was like, you want to date me? And everybody heard it. It was the shooting your shot heard around the world.

Yes. Basically, everyone who likes you, which is a lot of people, started reaching out to everyone who knows me. There we go. I think it was like Andy was vouching. for you. I think it was my relatives. My cousins were like, please, please, please. He's amazing. There were, there were friends that were like, he's actually an amazing guy. Like, he's so great. There was a lot of kind of people whispering in my ear about you. And I actually, that's not normal.

It's not normal. There are people just willing to go to back for you and be like, you don't understand. This guy's incredible. Well, Andy, well done. Yeah. Thank you, Andy. And Scott. Thank you. You go, Scott. Speaking of which, how's Scott doing? He's doing good? So he is doing incredibly well. My dad had an interesting summer. He actually had a quintuple bypass surgery. And that's a really intense surgery. Yeah. So it all happened really quick. He went in. I know he would want me to say this because he really like, he learned a lot through this process. He's had a healthy, perfect EKG every year that he's gone in to get his physicals. Yeah. Perfect EKG. Yeah.

But what found his five hard blockages in his heart was arresting stress test. So he's been telling all his friends, you need to get the stress test because that's what's actually preventative. If you can find that earlier, you don't have to have a bypass surgery. You can you can sort out those blockages with stents and things that are a lot less invasive. So he finds out that he's got these blockages. They're like, this is, we got to do this like tomorrow. Yeah.

You shouldn't, like, we don't know how you walked. in here, dude. This is crazy. Um, so he was, of course, saying to our family, he was like, you guys are busy. I don't want you guys to have to like come in here. Like, you and Austin are busy. Like, just don't, you don't have to do this. Like, don't come. The brave dad, the strong dad. He said something about like when a cat is injured, it curls up around a tree and heals itself. I was like, dad, cats don't have quintuple bypass. He tried to relate. You're just saying stuff now. That doesn't mean anything to me. And so I was like, okay, I'm. I'm not going to come there.

All right. So he wakes up from surgery and it's my mom, my brother and me and his best friend. And he comes out of surgery. And he was, he did like a comedy act, a comedy set for like 15 minutes. He was the funniest he's ever been. And he's usually funny. But he's like, he, we didn't know how many blockages he had. And I was like, dad, you had a quintuple bypass.

You had five. It's crazy. It's more than we thought. And he's like, well. you see I come from a very competitive family. And it was kind of wild because it was like it was very parent child reversal in a lot of ways. Like my brother and my mom and I were each taking shifts in the ICU and staying with them 24-7. And I remember when I was a teenager, my parents would always, the big fight we always had is I'd sneak my cell phone into my room and be talking to my best friend Abigail under the covers all night.

And they'd be like, you have a test tomorrow. You need to rest. We're taking your phone, whatever. Yeah. I get to the hospital. My brother will have done the night shift. And he's like, he's like, hey, you got to take his phone. I caught him FaceTiming his friends all night.

He needs his rest. He needs to be sleeping. He's facetiming all night. It's like one of the main things you need is you need that your body to just like, yeah. And I'm like, I'm not taking his phone. He'll get mad. He's like, I'm not taking his phone.

You got to be the one to take his phone. I'm like, I'm not doing it. My mom's like, I don't want to do it. My mom. So we're just like, it's like we've got our, like our teen. teenage son's phone away from him because he's FaceTiming all night. He came out of surgery, tried to give guitar picks to all the nurses and doctors, but he wasn't wearing pants, didn't have pockets, hospital gown. You know, I'm like, I'm having these moments where I'm like, this dude

built play sets and swing sets and cribs for me. I'm building his like, I'm building his shower chair and his walker and his like bed that goes like this. Like, it's just surreal, man. And you're like, you know, we just all moved in with him for the whole summer pretty much. And just, you know, because you can't, you can't really walk on your own. He had a little harness for my dad, just like walking dad on his harness. And he was like the loveliest patient ever. He just kept saying thank you over and over again. So.

Guy was full of life, man. Yeah. He was appreciative that he caught it. He still is. Yeah. You know it. We had the FaceTime with him last time we were together. And I was like, yeah, he hasn't changed a bit.

This guy's still freaking got the energy going. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, Trab was hanging with him the other day. And he was like, so, sweetie, he says he's at 75%. And if this is 75%, I'm truly terrified of what I was on it. To give you the update, I'm probably at 85 to 90% now. We still got a month though.

Yeah. So my dad's like, my dad's like new arteries, new me. My mom, my mom who's got a new knee. New knee. There we go. New knees. She's doing great. She's scampering around.

We're not quite at scampering yet, but she's doing great. She's not for moving around. Yeah, this was just like the summer of my parental upgrades. Like, we're just upgrading the parents, making sure that they live to be at least 186 years old. Huge. Because they're two of my best friends. And I just adore them. And it was actually one of the most special things that's ever happened to me, like spending all that time with them this summer and getting to, like, you have those long talks.

that you don't have when it's like a small concentrated period of time. This is when I learned to do the sourdough, right? My parents' friend, Tina sends over a loaf of-shadow. Shout out Tina. Tina, I love you. Thank you, Tina. Sends over, like, the best loaf of bread I've ever had in my life. To call it bread feels really honestly sort of like...

It's gold. Sort of minimizing what this was, right? It's my day gold. I'm like, I need to know what... I need to know how to do this. I go over Tina's house. She teaches me how to do it. She gives me some of her starter.

life is never the same. All these things are happening in Florida. Travis is doing his training. He's like, look at him. In Florida. Look at it. Look at him. And he's so fast and he jumps so high.

There we go. So this is our Florida summer. That's what it is. It's a hell of a drug. We really floridaed it up. Florida. Yeah, no doubt. All right.

How many people have come up to you guys and talking about or spoken about how much they've appreciated you being a part of the Chiefs and like their daughters all of a sudden being in the sports. Because I get it all the time. I can't imagine how much you guys get it. How much the game has grown. It definitely feels like a lot of people say that to us, which is really kind because there was never a thought in either of our heads

that that was going to be a lot of us. I had no idea. That was, yeah, that was a pleasant surprise. Seeing all the little girls in the stands at games and you can, could see a proud father right there standing next to them. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's definitely been fun to see that, like, surprise. You know, I think a lot of, like, a lot of the, the women and girls, maybe they, maybe they, like, watched one game to see me cheer on my boyfriend or whatever, but if they, if they stayed, which is what people are saying based on the numbers, that's because the game is so great. And it's such an amazing, interesting thing to learn about. I will say it was,

it was cool to see the comparison of it all because she, the way she runs her tour, her show, her, like team and everything like it is very like team friendly. There are similarities in terms of, um, her athleticism.

Yeah. What she's doing for three hours. I was screaming. I was screaming for 40 seconds during the intro and I'm out of breath. That's what I'm saying. But the preparation it takes to get there. I got a whole regimen for you. Okay.

We'll get you on the tour prep. It'll be great. Perfect, perfect. The goals that you set for yourself to achieve. Like, it's very like, there are some similarities that I thought you found, like, I don't know, like fascinating that you kind of have that same regimen going into stuff. And I thought that was fun for me to at least see when I saw you on tour and saw how much of a team you guys were. On paper, like we actually kind of have a very similar job.

Like, our job is to entertain people for three plus hours in NFL stadiums. And it's like, when I'm there, it's called a dressing room. When Travis is there, it's called a locker room. For me, it's called a rehearsal. For him, it's called a practice. For him, it's called his coach. For me, it's my mom. Yeah.

So there will be time for like game versus show, right? I'll be like, baby, how was the show? Game. Game. How was the rehearsal? The practice. You know, field, stage. They're the same thing.

We just call them different. things. Yes. Exactly. It was cool to see the comparisons and how kind of, I don't know, both aligned. And how hard she works in the gym. We've been to the gym like numerous times and she works harder than me every time. That's not true. That's crazy. You can like lift a car. He's just telling. He's just saying words. That's just, that's just genetic. That's just saying words. That's one rep. That's what people get. I can stretch more. That's what I can do more. I've heard about the, we've talked about the treadmill walking while you're doing the whole show and like all We can't walk for four hours.

Can you? What's the last time you walk for four hours, Travis? I've never even tried that. I'm not stupid enough to try something like that. You kidding? My knees would be shredded. Oh, my God. So one of the other things that's been crazy to witness is just the media attention, right?

Like, I think you play in the NFL, you think? On the two of us? Well, let me, yeah, yes. Okay. The media attention on your guys' relationship. on the amount of people that talk about it constantly, the theories that are out there, of which I am probably way to invest it in. What?

How do you guys handle all of the noise and chatter about everything that's going on in both of your lives? We don't really. I don't see a lot of things. I'm of the firm belief that like, you know, if you're basing your kind of, if you're getting your feedback from the internet or from comments and stuff, like I just really think that like anything you put anything you feed your brain it will internalize anything you feed the internet it will kill yeah i've been in the music industry for 20 years it's pretty hard to hurt my feelings at this point she's a pro and it took me a little while to be a pro about it i think

i think initially and there's still some like wacko theories from the beginning that i was very like oh no like how is she handling this i i don't like the last thing i wanted to do is screw this up So I'm like in my mind is like her being so calm, cool, collected and so just real and understanding about everything that's going on really made me grow up real fast in that in that aspect of things. But also I think the fact that you genuinely find a lot of online discourse to be truly hilarious. Absolutely. And that changes things for me because. Discourse and truth. You know.

Find the humor. Find the humor. If he's seeing things and he thinks it's funny and it doesn't be. affect his day at all. Like, that's really completely bled into the way that I metabolize these things. It's at a point where, like, I can, something can be about me. Like, my name can be in the actual headline. And it can still be none of my business. Like, people can be out here. People might be out here doing too much. Just shaking ass. Doesn't mean I have to do a damn thing. Yeah. We live in such a social media moment where a lot of people's identities and they get their feedback from that,

right? And I'm a real constructive criticism guy. Like, give me constructive criticism all day. I will take it. Coach me up. It'll fuel me. It's helpful, right? But I have so many, like, friends or acquaintances or people were like, they'll see one

comment they don't like. And it will ruin their day. It'll ruin their night. And I just want to say to them, like, you should. You should think of your energy as if it's expensive, as if it's like a luxury item. Not everyone can afford it. Like, not everyone has invested in you in order to be able to have the capital for you to care about this. Right.

Because, like, what you spend your energy on, that's the day. And it's so true. Right? Like, it doesn't matter where you were. Like, maybe you went to go get coffee today. Maybe you saw friends today. If you were obsessing over one thing that you saw, like, you literally like, saw some guy call you mid. and this and you can't stop thinking about it.

No, he did not. You can't stop thinking about it. Dude, that's the day then. That's the night then. And so I just, I've been able to sort of mediate a really healthy relationship with not seeing a whole lot. To what you just said to the social media expounds every, all this because everybody knows if they say one thing, but all of a sudden if they put Taylor Swift attached to it, it's going to get a thousand more retweets and likes and hate.

comments or love comments or whatever. It's going to stir up tons of controversy. Totally. And I get this way all the time where I just recently went into the facility with Cam Juergens and something was happening like in the social media world that I was like, why are people like upset at this person? This is bullshit yada yada. And Cam just hit me with like, are they really though?

Or did just one person say something? Because I used to get the same way where I'd get upset. And then it took me like, actually nobody really gives us. a shit about this. Jason's early Twitter years. Oh, baby. Oh, my God. Oh, baby. He had to get off. He had to, he had to literally step away. And hit me right between the eyes. Because he would respond to it. I wouldn't say everybody, but he wasn't shy of letting people know how he felt on Twitter based off of their comments. It was honestly, Philadelphia, you guys know this. It was a treat. And it's become a treat again now that he's back on because you'll have a friendly conversation. Well, Twitter used to be like a different thing, right? Look, you know. remember Twitter. You're like, I fed us.

A squirrel ate a piece of bread. Didn't know they ate bread like that. Straight smashed it. Now that there's auto correct, I need to get back on Twitter. That's what Twitter used to be, right? I'm like, I need a pair of scissors to open these scissors. We're just thinking things, right? It's like

a different thing now. And it's kind of about like information is power, I guess, unless all of your information is geared towards you thinking that everything is about you. Because, you know, No, not everyone is ever thinking about one person all the time at any point.

It's just like if your algorithm is giving you either criticisms of yourself or adulation or praise, it's, you're creating an ecosystem in which you're the centerpiece of the table. And I just don't think that's healthy. Like that's not the way I want to move through the world. So I do detach from the internet in a huge way. Like I'm just not, I have never, I have had my comments disabled on Instagram. for like 10 years now. Yeah.

And I don't miss it. Yeah. I found that out after the Ares tour. Comments were going to be the first way. Dude, the problem is I get so mad, I then go and look at all the other comments and then Twitter just feeds me more. Dude, you're on like Reddit. It's like so we saw, we saw just like this.

Boom, boom. Yeah. Whereas I'm like, I don't know what this is, but get it out of my office. It's on fire. Yeah. My business is making. is making music and taking care of my fans. And I have ways of monitoring what they want from me

and how best to entertain them, which is my job. And everything else, I'm just sort of like, it's not my business. I have actual business that I need to run. Can you imagine if we just talked about what people said about our relationship?

Because if we talked about that, that would be all we talked about because there's so much chatter. It's like, we're busy having an actual relationship. I want to hear sourdough bread puns. Yeah. And you will.

And that's a promise. All right. Let's get to the part of this show that I think is what everybody is going to be talking about. Do I get to say it? Do I get to say the two words? Yes. Well, I think we were going to try. I think this is what I.

You can do whatever you want, Taylor. I don't know. We're not going to review. This is very. I want to work within the framework of the podcast. I'm a fan of the podcast. Typically, we would allow the guest to say new news. Yeah, yeah, I want to do it.

But with Zach Brown, we had another bit that we did. I don't know if we saw. I don't know if we can get back to this. I forgot. I forgot everything that Zach taught me already. All right, let's just let the expert take care of this. Okay. I just wanted, I wanted to scream it.

Taylor, just Travis style. Do you want to start it or echo it? I think Taylor has a little bit of new news. No news. Yay! She's a natural. It was as fun as I thought it was going to be. Oh, it was everything.

It was everything and more. We did talk about Easter eggs earlier. Yeah. And at the very last heiress tour, you didn't take the lift. You did not. You went upstage and exited through an orange door. Why did you change the ending? So that's, I'm happy you mentioned that.

Did you see that fans? Did you see that the fans? noticed this because I was pretty proud of them for noticing that. They noticed everything. I was surfing the internet and saw something. Yeah. So that was, I was pretty happy that they noticed that.

I was like, trained them well. So basically every night of the air is tour. Everything happens with the reason. Taylor's a planner. She's not just a random orange door? What's happening there? Why is why?

And why? Anyway, so I would leave the stage every night going down the elevator lift. That's how every single era's show ended except for one, except for the last one, where I exited through a door, an orange door to be specific. And that actually was an Easter egg.

Basically, the reason why I chose to exit that way is because I kind of wanted to give a little subliminal hint to the fans that I may be leaving the ERAs tour era, but I was also entering a new era. A new era. Orange. So I wanted to show you something. Okay. What do we got?

We got a briefcase. Yep. Mint green with T.S. on it. Yep. What's in it? This is my brand new album. We got T.S.12, baby. This is my brand new album.

It's called The Life of a Showgirl. Love it. It was something that I was working on while I was in Europe on the Ares tour. So while you're on tour. I would be on tour. How unearthed? did she do this on the tour is still blowing my mind. I just love it.

I just love it a lot. I love music. I would be playing shows. I'd do like three shows in a row. I'd have three days off. I'd fly to Sweden, go back to the tour. And actually, like,

working on this, I was physically exhausted at this point in the tour, but I was so mentally stimulated and so excited to be creating. And this is... And literally living the life of a showgirl. I was. While she wrote it.

That's why I said, that's why I called it that. Nailed it. So, um, do you want to see the back cover? I would love to see all of it. Yes. Back covers where we find the 12 tracks for my 12. 12 tracks. Bangers. So this is, so we got all. So we got track one. The fate of Ophelia. Okay. Track two. Go ahead. I was going to say, do you know a fate of Ophelia? I just, I, Hamlet. I don't want to get Jason all round up. So we can just go through the track.

Okay, okay. Yeah. Track two, Elizabeth Taylor. Okay. You know who Elizabeth Taylor is? You better. I'm just kind of following. Just kind of following.

Okay, all right, all right. Track three, opalite. Opalite. You know what opalite is, Jason? Why, can we stop asking me if I know things? Okay, I'm done. I'm asking Jason things. He's like, I hate this.

I know a lot about this album and I'm excited. Track four, father figure. Father figure. Track five, eldest daughter. Track six, ruin the friendship. Who? Track seven, actually romantic. Actually romantic.

Track eight, wish list with two dollar signs as the S's. Just let me point that out, grammatical flourish. Track nine, would. Wood. Nice. Track 10, canceled. But it's in all. caps with an exclamation point at the end.

That's a bagger. Track 11, honey. Honey. And can you do drum roll? Last track, track 12, the title track, The Life of a Showgirl,

featuring Sabrina Carpenter. Sabrina Carpenter! That's awesome. So that's that. Look at this. Yeah. And so then we got... That is a showgirl. We got this orange vinyl here.

Yeah, it is. And it is. Sparkly. Entering a new era. Sparkly. It's very nice. So what is the significance of the color orange? Why orange? I've just always liked it, Jason. It really, it really feels like, I don't know, it feels like, it feels like kind of energetically how my life has felt. And this album is about what was going on behind the scenes in my inner life during this tour, which was so exuberant and electric and vibrant. And, you know, one of the things about this record is like,

it's a record I made with my mentor, Max Martin, and Shelbach. And the three of us have made some of my favorite songs that I've ever done before. Which ones, if you don't mind me asking. Well, they were my main collaborators on the Red album. We did. We are never getting back together. I knew you were troubled, 22. Shake it off, blank space, style, wildest dreams.

Oh, hell yes. I'm ready for it. So that's the energy we're going with. Yes. I understand why it's orange now. Okay. So, yeah,

we've made, we've made songs that I'm so proud of. There's going to be some fucking bangers. Yes, I'm picking it up. Dude. Yeah, it's like that.

And so basically, we've never actually made an album before where there, where it's just the three of us. There's no other collaborators. It's just the three of us making a focused album where, I mean, it felt like it felt like catching lightning in a bottle, honestly. We hadn't worked together in like seven or eight years. And this feeds. This feeds.

They're just, they're just something. There's something about it. These guys, they like, they're just geniuses in, in different avenues in different ways. And we kind of, I'm going to put it down. I've just never, like, today's the first day I've seen it. Do you know what I mean? I'm just like, so Travis is just going to cradle it the whole time. Don't drop the baby. I will not drop this baby. So it's like working with them again was absolutely incredible. And actually when I was on tour in Stockholm, I had Max Martin come out to the show.

And I was talking to him and I was like, I feel like we could just knock it out of the park if we went back in. And we did this all in Sweden. And it was just us three. Like I want to, I essentially said to him, I want to be as proud of an album as I am of the heiress tour and for the same reasons. you know and and he was like do you understand what kind of pressure that is yeah i was like that is okay i was like yeah why would you yeah we can try let's see your entire career got it yeah we can do that in one album well okay so it's like you know i i spent time in the time that we were off doing different projects and he and shellback were doing different things and i was making albums that were

a little bit more esoteric like folklore she's so hot she's so hard she's so much you says these big words. You know what esoteric means. I know it's for specific following. Exactly. Exactly. Wait, what? He knows what that means. He pretends he doesn't know what these words mean, but he knows what that means for a specific following, like a specific genre of people. He knows what it means. Okay. He's doing, he does like a pretty, I don't know what it means name, but he knows all the words and he knows what they mean. And he may not have read Hamlet, but I explained it to him. Okay, there we go. Don't tell my middle school English teacher, I didn't do it.

Because I definitely was supposed to. Spark notes. It's all right. I watched the Lion King. See, he knows what Hamlet is. Wait, Lion King is based off a Hamlet? Yes. Jason, your Reddit searches need to be more focused on relevant things.

We need your relationship with the Internet to be like a little bit pure. I got the algorithm. I got the algorithm. My relationship with the internet is bad. It's not as bad as you can get. Yeah. Sorry. No, you're fine.

So I was like, I made a few records that were a bit more like specific in their sound or whatever, like folklore or Evermore. Those were a little bit more like alt folk kind of leaning and just kind of exploring and trying to challenge myself as a writer. And I feel like both Max and Shelbach did that too in their own ways going out into the world. And by the time we came back together, I feel like we had so much more dexterity to what we do. And it's almost like we'd all grown up so much.

Like Shellback and I were both in our early 20s when we started working together, the three of us. And so it was very much like we were the ingenues. And Max was the mentor. And this was the time where it felt like all three of us in the room were carrying the same weight as creators. And it was really special. It like meant the world to me to have this creative experience where like we knew that we had to bring the best ideas we've ever had. Yeah. And I know, I also know the pressure I'm putting on this.

record by saying that, but I don't care because I love it that much. And I'm so proud of it. And it just comes from like the most infectiously joyful, wild, dramatic place I was in in my life. And so that effervescence has come through on this record. And like, as you said, bangers. And we were just like, there's no other songs coming. It's not like with Torture Poets Department, I was like, here's a data dump of everything I've thought, felt. There's a lot of stories in two or three years. Here's 31 songs. This is 12.

There's not a 13th. There's not a 14th. There's not other ones coming. This is the record I've been wanting to make for a very long time. I love it. I love this so much. Where do we start? I don't know where to start.

You gave us a lot of information right there. I know. We didn't tell Jason that we were doing this. I just said, like, can I go on the podcast? Because Brad Pitt did it and I want to do it too. Jason was like, yes, I mean, we can make that happen. That seems like a valid reason. The request or the ask from either one of us was never going to come.

I don't know why I would never ask you. I just, I don't know. Yeah, Brandon still hates me because I never asked you. But I think this is way better now. We waited until I had some stuff to say, I think. There we go. You know, I was waiting until I had like a sparkly briefcase to bring. I needed props.

It took a long time to put that into production. Well, it is finished. And do you want to tell everybody when it's coming out? It comes out October 3rd. October 3rd. This album comes out October 3rd. It's easy to remember. It's 10-3.

10-3. Still annoying. It is also your birthday week. We got Wyatt October 2nd. We got you October 5th. And then we got Mom October 9th. So this is a good month. Yeah.

It's going to be a good week. You know, all these. All these Libras out here. 103. 13. The opal burst stones. I'm picking up this numerology. There we go. There we go.

See, I knew you. Never not annoying. Always going to try to force a 13 into the situation. And this one was right there. It was just right there. For the photos, there's a lot more, there are a lot more photos in this. And there's a poem in this. And basically, I love the photography so much that I don't want to show it right now

because I want to keep some mystery. going because that's fun to have things to still discover. But the photos are done by Merton Marcus, who are two of my favorite photographers. The only time I worked with them for an album cover shoot was with reputation with that album.

And I loved what they did with those photos. So I called them up for this one. And I'm so happy with the way that the photos came out for this one. And it just basically was like, I was so proud of the music and so excited about this project from a creative standpoint

that I was just like all hands on deck, we're going all out. This is a full send. I care about this record more than I can even overstate. It's so much fun. I mean, I understand what she's saying. Obviously, I've been fortunate enough to hear every single song on here, so I know they're all 12 bangers.

It's a lot more upbeat and it's a lot more like fun pop, like excitement. And I think that's a completely like, I think it's a complete 180 from a lot of the songs on torture poets for sure. Oh, yeah. And life is more upbeat. Well, that's what I was about to say. Probably, do you find that your albums mimic everything that's happening in your personal life?

Yeah, definitely. Your genres that you've done are like so widespreading between like country, pop. And then like it can get, I don't even know, torture poets. It was like so cathartic. It felt like for you probably to write those songs and to release all that. Definitely. And it was like. I have different goals with different albums.

And torture poets department, my goals were strictly lyrical. Like I, and I love that. It felt like every song was a poem. Oh, yeah. And I love that album so much from that perspective. That was strictly what I was trying to accomplish there. It was just really a full catharsis. And I loved to embrace the mess of, of writing from that perspective, of the rawness of that.

This, I have a totally different set of goals. Yeah. I always try to do something completely different. That's what I'm feeling at the moment. And I was feeling a complete pivot at this point in time. And I wanted the album to feel the way my life felt. And this completely matches the way that my life has felt. And I also wanted it to be just every single song is on this album for hundreds of reasons.

You know, and you couldn't take one out and it be the same. same album, you couldn't add one and it'd be, it's just right. And that focus and that kind of discipline with creating an album and keeping the bar really high is something I've been wanting to do for a very long time. I tend to love to write lots and lots of music. So it's a temptation to release lots of music. Sure. I wanted to do an album that was so focused on quality and on the theme and everything fitting together like a perfect puzzle that these. these 12 songs for my 12th album, it just, I feel like we achieved that. And I'm really happy about that.

So you mentioned a couple of things there. First, what is the theme of the album, if you would describe it as one, like, theme, if that's possible? I would say it's everything that was going on behind the curtain. Okay. And then what are the goals? You said something like there, what would be like your main goals with this album? My main goals were melodies that were so infectious that you're almost angry at it. And lyrics that are just as vivid, but crisp and focused and completely intentional.

Check. So it's like, I feel like we actually came together in a really beautiful way, the three of us, Shellback, Max and I, where we had a conversation about how Max was like, I loved folklore. I loved the storytelling on folklore. I don't want that to change. like just because we're making these like these infectious anthems like I don't want you to leave that behind and I was like I don't think I I couldn't if I tried so at this point I'm I got some

stuff to say I'm married to that kind of writing you know and so it was really amazing that we were able to without doing too much overthinking we were able to get in there and it was just ideas flying and all of these ideas were like, we've been waiting years to come back together and make this project. You weren't going to move. When do I? Do I have to wait until October 3rd?

Do I have to wait until October 3rd? Yes, you do, Jason. God, damn it, this is unfair. We don't trust you at all. I mean, honestly, smart. I completely get it. Completely good. The artwork, how do you settle on a front piece of like artwork for an album?

This represents the end of my night. Okay. Right. So like when I'm on tour, I have the same day every single day. It's another reason why we have a very similar life. His game days are the same days every day. Right. His practice days are the same every day.

His meetings is scheduled. My show days are the same every single day. I just happen to be in a different city. Yeah. And my day ends with me in a bathtub, not usually in a bedazzled dress. Sure. Well, it's got to be, it's on the front of an album. We try to keep a decent, you know.

I wanted to sort of like glamorize all the different aspects of how that tour felt. And that's how that felt to like be at the end of the night when all this has gone down. You won't be able to get to bed till four in the morning after this. But you had to jump through 50 million hoops in this obstacle course that is your show. And you did it. You got two more in a row. But you did it tonight. That's all the matter.

And the reason I wanted to have it sort of like an offstage moment as the main album cover is because this album isn't really about what happened to me on stage. It's about what I was going through offstage. So it's like it's, you know, I didn't want to have like the lights are bright. I'm on the stage as the main album cover. It's just this, this to me tells more of what the actual contents lyrically of the album are. Got it. Which is the life. the life of the show girl not yeah what you're saying it's the life it's the life behind it all

it's the life beyond the show okay which is fascinating Travis I'm very jealous of you've heard these songs as you should be Jason as you should be I think it's very fitting that it's worn I mean it looks like a giant sun pull that thing out again like the it feels like it's going to be full of energy like the record itself you have no idea adjacent. All right. Look at that thing. That thing is awesome.

That is so cool. Very cool. All right. Well, congratulations, Taylor. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Everyone, you heard it here first. You have heard it here first. October 3rd is the release date of the T.S.12, the life of a showgirl. 12 bangers. Congratulations, Taylor. I know you've been working on this for a long time.

You're going to be moving the entire album. Thank you so much. You can pre-order. it now. You can pre-order it now? There we go. Yeah, on my website. Okay, I'll be right back, guys. You heard of here first, folks. The Life of a Showgirl is available now. You can pre-order it. And the official release date is 10-3. That's October 3rd. Yes, sir. All righty. We are going to move to, we got to ask. You don't have to answer. I know you're familiar with this segment, but for anybody listening, this is a segment we often get to where our

guess we're going to ask a bunch of rapifier questions. They are not obligated to answer. As a matter of fact, they are free to tell us to fuck off. If they should choose. Okay, cool. If you said choose. All right. All right.

Now, how do you feel about Jason telling his kids that cats are poisonous? It was actually really a great challenge because as soon as I got the kids around the cats, it was my goal to prove to them that they weren't poisonous. And there's no better way to prove that than to just hand them Benjamin. my wife called back, who lets humans hold him like he's a baby. And I mean, like my favorite thing ever is just like when Benny will come up to me and just go, I find Benjamin. I find him.

And she's just like over there just like laying with him and petting him and holding him. And the cats are so good with kids. They're like, they're just like, there's like, Meredith is here. I'm like, yep. And you know what? She didn't bite you at all, did she? No, she did. And if she did bite you, she wouldn't be poisoned.

They're like, that's not what our dad said. I'm like, well, I heard you're getting a cat. I heard this very well-placed source. I will neither confirm nor deny. We'll see if that does get to that. You're getting like a proper cat. You're getting like a cat that's mice. What I have are not that.

Yes. I think there is sit around. There's a chance. There's a happy medium. There's a chance I've been talked into a barn cat that does not go inside. that will survive off of rodents in the field and guard our house.

Those girls are going to be sneaking that cat into bed every single night. I will say this is why I lie to my kids though is to I want them to be able to be critical thinkers. They need to realize it's absurd to think this and you handing them Benjamin and then walking them through critical thinking ability now all of a sudden they won't believe

something that every moron tells us. on the internet. Yeah, it was really like, I know it wasn't helpful for you, but it really, like it was helpful for me. My allergies are going to be in severe. I think you have,

I don't even know if the allergies are a thing, Jason. I think you just, I mean, I've had an allergy test, I've had an allergy test. Oh, yeah, they tell you everything. Allegedly.

I'd like to see a copy of it. Fair enough. I think that you just like maybe don't like. I don't. I mean, I think some cats I get down with. I always like flashing. growing up, the cat that we had.

What did you think of my three cats? My three perfect little angels. Well, the only one that would go near me was Benjamin. Yeah, because the other two consents that you had resting cat. That might be it. All right. If you had to choose to bake one thing to show off your baking skills, what would you choose?

Oh, right now it would be my cinnamon swirl sourdough. Cinnamon swirl sourdough? I thought you're going to go pop tarts. Pop tarts, pop tarts. It depends on who I'm baking for. the pop tarts. God, I just love making pop music and pop tarts. I love it. I didn't even put those two together, but that makes a ton of sense. I've been really experimenting with the flavors there because we got now wild blueberry, raspberry, strawberry, the original. And Kylie got me baking the cinnamon

sugar. You're doing that now. Yes. If I may, we need an orange pop tart now. We need what's a I mean, I'll do it if you really want me to. like with like a marmalade like an orange marmalade in the middle and then orange orange patch. Paddington bear? Okay. Okay. No, I can get.

I can get with this. I just didn't see the vision until now and now I think it's kind of genius. You've ruined pop tarts outside of yours just so you know. Thank you. Thank you so much. So now I got to try the cinnamon swirl sourdough though. If you're putting that above pop tarts. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm going to send some over. It's a banger. Perfect. All right. There's rumor that you played the. bear in Happy Gilmore 2 in the scene where Travis has money put on him? Oh my God. Or deny this rumor?

I can deny. Like this is this is one of those ones where like will send it to each other and be like, Hey, did you hear I was the bear in there? He's like, yeah, you hear we bought a house in Lake Como. Like it's we're just sort of like at this point. We're just like, of course they think I'm inside of a bear costume. Like I'm honored to be thought of in that context because I loved that movie so much. I watched it multiple times.

Loved it so much. Whoever did the bear acting was exquisite. Exquisite performance. Bad Bunny and the bear killed that scene. Yeah. Bad Bunny. He absolutely delighted me in that movie.

He was so good. Would you like a bread? He's amazing. His comedic timing is so good. There's this one part where they look over where they're like, who did that? And his name is Oscar. His character's name is Oscar in it. Yes.

Yes. And it's like his brother gets hit by. by the golf ball and they look over and they're like, who did that? Who did that? And they do, there's a face that bad bunny makes and they do the kind of the like the quick pan in the zoom.

And it was just, I was like, who thought of that? How did they know he could be that? I was, I watched it five times. Venito kills it. He really kills it.

He's so funny. He's so good. Susie. No. And I felt. I felt so much for this character. I'm so excited to go to his restaurant. Like I thought this was a.

real man. I believed this. Whose idea was arriving to the Eros tour stage via a cleaning cart? Mine. That's a weird idea that I, that's my type of weird idea. Where did that come from? Well, when you're putting on a first show of a tour like that, you're not just performing for the entire stadium.

You're performing for the entire internet. And so I wanted to curate and really romanticize the images that they were seeing first. So I didn't want them to see my first outfit and my first look, which would have given away what the first era was before, you know, when I'm walking up the ramp behind the stage, there's all these fans that are seated behind the stage at certain angles where they would have been able to film it. I didn't want that to be the first thing people saw from the Ares store. I wanted it to be the huge lover motif. And they're surprised and delighted by the fact that lovers, the first era were doing. And they, that's the first time they've seen that Versacee body. suit all lit up like like once the lights hit that thing it's just like yeah I love that outfit so

much and so it was really about preserving kind of like the sanctity of a surprise moment right so I kind of thought I might only do it for night one and then I just got attached to it I was like I just I find this fun it's the perfect intro it really is there's a like weird little side of me that like sneaking around and I think the fans found it funny too they're like what a weirdo we've come to see a weirdo in concert why is she doing that I was I don't know. Why did I make it look like a mop cart? I don't know, man. There's just like so, like, if you can't have fun with the hijinks of this thing, there's enough stress that goes into this. If you can't get joy from silly little things like the mop cart, man. You need to live a little.

You're doing it wrong. Lisen up. Live a little. Listen up. Get into a fake mop cart. Everyone knows you're in there, but you're in there like, I'm sneaking around. Nobody knows them in here. Everyone knows you're in there. But it's like it's one of those things like I work so hard to try to surprise fans. And they're like, I don't want to be surprised. Sometimes they really don't think they want to be surprised. I want to figure stuff out. No, they do.

But then I know, I know that when I can really get them and surprise them, that it was, it was so worth it. Because that's what entertainment is, really. It's just giving people something to escape, to sink their teeth into, to, to, to, to, like we're world building, you know? That's what the whole tour was. Hopefully people never thought that we'd go on this podcast and announce an album.

Like, I was hoping that that's something that the fans would be like, that's from left field. Like if we accomplish that, then that's... She went on with those two idiots to release this. Man, things are really getting dark for Taylor. All right, we ask all of our guests this. Yep. Who, what is your welcome to the NFL moment?

Oh. Oh, oh, I'd say it was the first time I stepped on the field, which would have been when you won the AFC championship. Baltimore. The first season that I was with you and it was in Baltimore and we're in the suite and he's just won the AFC championship. We're freaking out. Everybody's screaming. And his mom goes, all right, let's go down to the field. And I was like, what are we, what do you mean?

What are you talking about? We're going, why? We're going where? And she's like, we're going down to the field. the field. And I was like, did he say that that's okay? Like, because we hadn't talked about this. There was no like, there was no like, hey, if I didn't want to jinx. I didn't want to jinx it. Yeah, he doesn't, he doesn't jinx anything, which I respect actually. Like, I'm all about that. But we hadn't had a conversation about us. I'm like, is he going to be like, what are you doing down here, dude?

No, it was, mama knows best. Mama knows best. She knew I wanted you down. And so she was like, he, trust me, he wants you there. And I was like, okay, well, she, she would know. And so I'm walking out onto this field and it's just like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. This is, it's so, there's so many lights. We're going into Super Bowl. I've never seen this many cameras. I've never seen, I like, I've never seen this much media in my life and I've seen a lot of media.

And then the media sees me and they're like, ah! And then they just start running at me. And I'm looking at you and you're, and then you're, and then you're, screaming into the mic because when there's a mic and there's Travis, like he physically needs to scream into it. Of course. All right. Okay.

That's like I just so basically I'm experiencing this whole heightened scenario that I had no idea five minutes before I was going to be experiencing. And it was, it's one of my most cherished memories because I was so proud of you. And I was so proud that you came down there to enjoy that moment. It was so magical. It was so fun. It's like crazy. It's crazy to get to see someone you love work that hard.

and then have that kind of like euphoric payoff where you're like, for sure. You did it. Like you did it underlined a hundred times. You did like you did it. Human exclamation point. What do you mean? What do you mean?

That's crazy. Like, yeah, I had such a great rookie year. It was crazy. It was a great year. What is your welcome to like, I don't know if it's like singer like being a pop star,

being a performing. Yeah, what is your welcome to the industry moment in that regard? Oh, my God. Man, I never really, I actually never really allowed myself to feel like the you've arrived. Thank you. Sure. I've just now started to be able to really be in a moment when I'm in the moment.

That's why I'm so glad that the errors tour happened when I'm an adult, because I was able to completely and totally soak in these moments. while I'm planning obviously what I'm doing next in the show, but like when I'm at the end of that show and I'm standing there taking it in, that's me 100% present. But, you know, starting to do this when I was putting out my first album, when I was like 16, I was always on to the next plan. And that I get joy in planning.

So it's not like I wasn't happy with that. But I never allowed myself to say, you've arrived, you've made it. I was always like, how are you getting, how are you going to get to make the next project? And it was all about, it was all about the higher I climbed to more creative control I had and the more fun I had making stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it was not the like the altitude I was reaching. There was more pressure every step of the way, but I was getting more creative control and freedom every time.

And that is why it felt so much more special to keep working harder to get it to new levels. It's not like, oh, like I can afford to buy this or whatever. Like it, not to discount that. but for me every time I got higher up on a new rung of the ladder I could make stuff in a more focused and free and autonomous way what else would you want as an artist I never really let myself be like I've made it but the arrows tour I was like oh oh this is different like this is not this is nothing like what I've ever experienced before it was so much better than anything and literally while she's doing that she's still creating the next thing yeah I

That's what's crazy to me. I love it. Live show Sweden. Live show Sweden. Live show Sweden. Yeah. That's what's nice. No, I adore what I do.

I absolutely love it. And I love then taking the songs and writing a treatment for a music video and directing the music video. Like all of the things that I get to do now, I'm so grateful for the ability to create. Like, that's still what drives all of it. Well, us Swifties appreciate your dedication. We are very grateful for this as well. Thanks, guys. All right.

Do you have any questions for us? We're kind of out of the questions for this section. Is there anything you wanted to ask Travis or I? I mean, you have a, yeah. You put Travis on the spot right now. Yeah. I know. Well, I don't know.

I was wondering how that wax is growing in. Like I don't know. Oh my. Because I haven't talked to in a couple weeks about it. And I just feel like it's really important for you to like make sure that those hair getting a little itchy, bud. No, it's fine. When you go like, when you go from fur to, to, to know.

fur at all. And you can wear us because we got some thick hair. It's like important to figure out like I mean just don't tell us too much. Are we, how are we doing? We're doing good. We're doing good. We're managing it.

Well, we're not managing it. That's how we're managing it is we're not managing it. Okay. It's fortunate for me. My hair grows fast. Yep. It's coarse.

It's got a texture that was difficult for about a couple weeks. Very itchy. Yep. That's what I thought. We've passed that phase now. Are we going to do it again? Do you think? I don't think so.

And I listen, shout out to the people in downtown Philadelphia. They did a great job. European Wags. I'm not. I don't think it's going to be a recurring bit. Yeah, it was the best it could have been.

I also don't think I'm going to find myself in a speedo again. Jason walked into a door that said European Wax. And was treated with the utmost respect in class. He had to try it in order to know. That's life, you know. It feels important that you did it. And also, it's because now you know. Because now you know.

I know what I always say that after, after I make unfortunate judgment calls. Right. Well, now I know. Now I know. Had to try it. The one thing I didn't try was. Wasn't great. Wasn't great.

Wouldn't do it again. Yep. Yep. On that note. Now you know. Thanks for having you. Tay, thank you so much for hopping on. Oh, my gosh.

All right. Thank you so much for hopping on. You are the best. This has been a blast. I think Kylie enjoyed being the number one most viewed episode for her time that she had. This is. Don't you do that to Kylie. Don't do that.

It's not about Kyle. You guys throw Kylie under the bus. You're going to pay for it. Why didn't Elliot are already doing it? You find out. That's right. And that's a wrap, folks, on another episode of New Heights. Thank you to our guest, Taylor Swift, for joining us on the show.

Life of the show, girl, comes out. October 3rd, pre-order is now available on Taylor Swift.com. Reminder, New Heights will be back to kick off the NFL season, August 27th. Make sure you're subscribed to the New Heights channel on YouTube and follow New Heights in the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to new episodes of New Heights early and ad-free right now, but joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple. podcasts. All right now, once again, New Heights, a Wondry show. Follow the show on all social media at New Heights Show with OneS, and thanks to our production and crew always for your your editing

skills and making us look entirely better than what we are. Taylor got to see this first hand, actually. Thanks, guys. It's been great. And to the 92 percenters and to the Swifties. We love you guys. We'll see you guys next time. Bye. Peace. I don't know how to where to go from here. I learned there was confetti all over. Oh, this is like when the cats taste something they don't, that they're confused by. This is my favorite impression. This is it. It's a confused.

The cat ate something. It doesn't know what it is. This is this. That gets you every time. It gets me every time, man. I will laugh at that. I will, like, fall off the couch laughing at that. If he'll do it at his, you know.