New Heights with Jason and Travis Kelce - Tom Brady on Favorite Super Bowl, Kelce v Gronk, Belichick Debate & Why the NFL is Hard | EP 198

Episode Date: July 8, 2026

92%ers, welcome to another episode of New Heights brought to you by Expedia! Today, we're joined by Tom Brady to talk about what separates great teams from championship teams, the intensity of Patriots practices, what made Bill Belichick so effective, his favorite Super Bowl victory, mastering the two-minute drill, and how he overcame self-defeating thoughts throughout his career.We've also got Tom’s incredible stories about playing alongside Rob Gronkowski, Randy Moss, Joe Thuney, Julian Edelman, &  More! Shop our new sandal collab with OluKai at http://kelceclubhouse.comOur book “No Dumb Questions” is available now at https://www.harpercollins.com/pages/nodumbquestionsWatch and listen to new episodes of New Heights every Wednesday during the NFL season and follow us on Social Media for all the best moments from the show: https://lnk.to/newheightshowYou can also listen to new episodes on Wondery, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. ...Download the full podcast here:Wondery: https://wondery.app.link/s9hHTgtXpMbApple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-heights/id1643745036Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/1y3SUbFMUSESC1N43tBleK?si=LsuQ4a5MRN6wGMcfVcuynwSupport the show: EXPEDIA: The one place you go to go places. https://www.expedia.com/AMERICAN EXPRESS: The Platinum card gives you access to the largest curated global hotel program through Fine Hotels + Resorts® and The Hotel Collection. Terms apply. Learn more at americanexpress.com/withplatinum. Largest as compared to other credit card programs with special benefits through Fine Hotels + Resorts® and The Hotel Collection, as of 7/2025.ENTERPRISE: This tournament, every corner kick goal is your chance to win a car.  Post on X #OnEveryCorner #sweepstakes and tag @Enterprise the moment a corner kick is called. For more details and an additional chance to win, visit https://OnEveryCorner.com. No purchase necessary. Open to legal residents of the 50 US states, and D.C., Puerto Rico, Canada, Ireland, the United Kingdom, France, Germany and Spain, who are 21 and older. Sweepstakes ends July 19, 2026. Void where prohibited. Prize awarded if a corner kick goal is scored. For entry details and official rules, visit https://OnEveryCorner.com.XFINITY: Sponsored by Xfinity. WiFi so reliable you can host the world. Head to xfinity.com/soccer to learn more.MENTOS: Refresh the Everyday with Mentos Gum. Shop Now!ALLSTATE:  Check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds: https://Allstate.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Do you have a favorite gronk story? I got a good one. I got a good one. All right. You know, like, a lot of receivers, tight-ins will work on catching drills. Yeah. Hit the jugs machine, you know, 100 catches. And all the receivers did it.

I never saw Grong ever do any catching drill, ever. Every ball I'd throw to Gronk. Like, he'd have these big white gloves, right? And when you put his hands up like this, it looked like the top of a trash can that I would try to hit. And he would go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, would like, so he had like a smile on his face. The ball would just stick to his hands, right? So it was, like, unbelievable. So one day, it's like his, it's like third year in the league, all right?

And we're at practice, and I throw him a ball. And it, like, hits, like, the palm of his hands and, like, falls on the ground. And Grunk looks at me and it's like, what was that? Like, what just happened? So he goes, Tommy, throw me the ball again. And I cut the ball, and I fired at him, and he caught it. And it was like, he gained his confidence right back. Okay.

Okay, I'll go. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, welcome back. Hey. To New Heights, we got a special episode with me and Jason in the same room. This never fucking happens.

It's the best. It's the best. There's like a scent to you that I just like being around. It's called Louis Vuitton imagination. Do you know that perfumes actually use foul or rotten things in their perfumes

because it lasts longer and elicit certain pheromone responses out of the nostrils. This show is brought you by Expedia. That's right. The place you go to go places. We're your host. I'm Travis Kelsey. He's my big brother, Jason Kelsey.

Jason always knows a little bit too much about everything. And you just caught that firsthand here in the early stage of this interview. I know just enough to be dumb enough. Yeah. I love it, man. I don't have a script in front of me. So I think this is where I say, follow the show on all social media, add new heights with one-ass from fun clips throughout the week.

And Jason is now going to tell you what we have coming up this week. That's right. 92% or we've got another great episode. Yay! We are ending this season with an all-time guest, the most accomplished greatest football player in the history of the game. Season finale. Season finale.

Tom Brady is on the show. Yeah. Oh, you're talking about Tom Brady? That's right. All you Patriots that love Travis Kelsey. Tom Brady's coming on the show. You're going to love it. Hey, Pat's fans.

Yeah, let's get into some new news. New News. Before we get to that. All right, new news is brought to you by American Express. It's the end of the road. The season is finally done. This season is finally done of New Heights. Do you have a favorite highlight?

I mean, the live show is, it's fresh. It's fresh, but God damn, that was a fucking fun. It was. It was a great job. Shout out to Amazon. Shout out to Enterprise. Everybody helped put that thing on, the set design. it was so much fun.

I didn't know how it was going to work out. We were talking, you know, the whole team, we were talking to, we're going to have a soccer group, we're going to have a basketball hoop, we're going to have turf. I'm like, how the fuck is this going to work? And it ended up going off without a hitch, surprisingly. And thankfully, you actually dunked,

which wasn't an actual dunk. Does that actually? No, it was 100% actual dunk. It was 100%. You've done it. You've dunked. You have done it. So you dunked, and on top of that,

you stoned Alex Morgan. So two... pregnant Alex Morgan. Which was a little bit of a low blowbend, you know what? You've got to take your chance when you can. Listen, Tim coached me, and he said, you got to get in their head. I got the bobsled suit out, so that threw her out of her game right away. And it was also a shorter net, so I didn't have to leap as far.

Alex went up there like, all right, I'm just going to fire one in. Hopefully he doesn't. And you fucking full on... Oh, I'm going on with me. Guess the right side. Airborne. There's got to be a slow-mo. The look on Alex's face.

Somebody's got to have a slow-mo of that. The funniest part was the reaction from the crowd. They didn't know whether to cheer or not. It's like, do, do, do, ooh. And you get up like you won the Super Bowl. I just stopped a fucking penalty kick from a fucking World Cup champion, the best goal score in the U.S. women's history. That's great.

All right. You're hilarious. I'm sorry for my brother, Alex. I'm sorry. And I give to say that the first time I ever dunked a basketball was in the Orphium Theater in front of thousands of people with an alley-U from Will Ferrell. It's insane. What life are we living? Couldn't have happened in a better way.

It's been a hell of a year. When's the first time you dunked? Roxburgh Middle School? I'm in Rocksboro Middle School. Yeah. That was probably pretty cool, too. Yeah. Just kind of just casually.

I mean, yeah, it was, it was DeLia. No, we were, man, it's so long ago. I think I remember being in a, like, like a drenched sweat. Like, I had, like, gym class, I had, like, been trying to do this for, like, my entire time in gym class.

Yeah. And I finally got it very similar to you. Not as much pull on the rim, but flush it in, yeah. Flushed it in. Good penultimate step. Yep. No, I was a one-foot jumper back then. One foot?

Yeah. So I'd start from, like, the fucking rafters and just. Just build up as much. as possible. All right, well, we will be back for season five with all new episodes starting September 2nd. Travis is off to training camp for everybody that is new to the show. We take this time off because Travis is way too busy to record a podcast. He's getting ready for an NFL season, and we do not have the time. Training camp of the NFL, he's going to go to St. Joe's University. St. Joe, Missouri, Western State University. Not St. Joe, Philadelphia, St. Joe, Missouri.

Shout to the Griffins. And where they will be, I mean, knee deep in sweat and all sorts of other bodily fluids that nobody else wants to be around. How is that? For, I mean, all day, they'll sleep together. They might, you know, play tummy sticks. I don't know what might happen. It's very... That sounds like a Philly thing.

We never had that thing. You never did that? No, we never played tummy sticks. Oh, you're missing out. All right. That's insane. Stick around to the end of the episode for some exclusive clips from our live show. So we are ending the season with some of our favorite live, no dumb questions.

Nice. Ending the season with Tom Brady, pretty epic. Starting it with Taylor, pretty epic. And the start of, like, during that recording the entire time, I'm planning, like, I'm going to ask this woman to marry me after this. So, yeah, those were probably two other, like, really cool moments of this season. Obviously, the beginning of it with Taylor is one I'll remember forever. I mean, it's by far our most few episode of all the time.

Yeah, it was pretty fun. Yeah. It was incredible. I've never been more. What was one that sticks out to you throughout the year? Can't use either one of mine. Put his ass on the spot. We had a lot of good ones, Jason.

I know, we did have a lot of good ones. Use your brain. What would, out of, I mean, I just, what is going to be even comparable to the two that you just named? I don't know. The one, I mean, we did a lot of actors. Cabrio is kind of nice. Decatur was cool. Dude, I'm like, but I can't.

George Clooney. George Clooney, Affleck. Do we have Sandleron again? Yeah. No. That was the previous one? Yeah. Will was the previous one or he went on this show?

No, that was previous. God damn it. Jackass. Johnny Knoxville. That's another one. Very current. Allen, Riggle, Hart, Rock.

Dude that. He was Alan Iverson. God damn. Aaron Andrews, Chris and Thompson. From the raft. This has been a hell of a year. Kylie again, both the times, Kylie. I mean, I talk to her every day.

Don't you do that to Kylie. You should be lucky if you get to talk to Kylie every day. James Winston. James Winston was great. There's Gosling. They're all so good. Conan. Conan.

God damn. Yeah, there's too many. I don't even know where to go with that. That was a fun little, like, memory lane there for C. Season, what is this? Four? Four. We're one out of five. Here we go. Times flying.

The wriggle and heart going back and forth was one of my, that was a blast. They were great together. Riggled and Kevin Hart, man. That was too funny. The fixings, man. Yeah, the fixes. Well, that's it for new news brought to you by American Express. It's time, Travis, to toss it to our guest.

Let's do it. Yeah. Toss it all with Tom Brady. Jason, you want to do the, uh, The intro? Sure. This conversation is brought to you by X Faddy. How are the guest today is the 6'4 quarterback from the University of Michigan.

Woo-hoo. The 199th pick of the 2000 NFL draft, 15-time Pro Bowl at 2009 NFL comeback player of the year. Three-time NFL MVP only starting quarterback to win the Super Bowl, both the AFC and the NFC. He's got seven Super Bowl championships, five Super Bowl MVP. 92 percenters, please welcome the most decorated man in the history of our game. Tom Brady! We got the go! Yes.

Man, I got to hire you come on the road with me. I've never had an intro like. I've done a lot of shit. I've never had an intro like that. Just sign me up, man. Sign me up. Only the best for you, big dog. We got to settle it right here right now, though.

You're one-in-one against the Kelsey brothers in the Super Bowl, dog. How do we figure this out? How do we break the tie? We got to get on the golf course somewhere. We got to get a few drinking games going. What do we got to do? I think we should. I'm definitely down for some golf with you too.

You know, I love that. Although, Trave, I have seen your swing, and I'm not, I'm afraid that, like, you would just roll over me. I mean, you got that thing down. Jay, I don't know. You probably have had a little more time post career, but. No, no, no, no. I've got a ridiculous golf swing. Trav is very, I keep telling people, he's going to be a plus handicap when he really gets done playing.

He's, he's a stick. Yeah. And he's also, he just got this new driver. we played at Bel Air yesterday, smoking it. Like 360. I'm like, what thing? Same driver, new flight. Oh, is that what it is?

Yeah, it's just going straight. You've had a unique athleticism, Trave. I will say that. I appreciate that. Silky, smooth route runner, like, incredible feel out there. Like, I think if I played with you, you would have had 110, 120 a year. And not that you don't have that with Patrick, but I liked your. style of play because I feel like there was a way you ran routes and you always had an ability

to like, you know, feel the coverage and then turn in when they told you to turn up, but who care because you're open. And Julian did that a little for me. West did that a lot for me. Some guys don't really have that feel, but I just watch you play and I'm like, like, like that. I appreciate that big guy. And I definitely took a lot of like notes from Jules and Edelman and even Gronk on, I mean,

watching you guys, you guys were unbelievable at being on the same. page. Yeah. And you could just tell you guys were in sync and the guys that were running the routes were that even if they made a decision that wasn't, you know, so-called in the playbook essentially, it felt like everybody was always friendly and making it definitive enough for you. But I appreciate that, big dog.

Jason's, he's more of a, he's the kind of guy that. I feel like Jason had the same, in his own way, like the center style of play, his own unique way of getting the job done. And Jay, you probably weren't the biggest guy, but you're always played with great leverage. Always, communication was probably on point. I don't think I would have motherfucked you very often. I motherfuckerucked the centers a lot. But you, I feel like you would have gone right back at me and I'd have been stuck because

I'd have been like, oh, shit, he's probably right. No, I, listen, I, so I tell, we talked about this earlier this year. I know you're being funny a little bit, but we were just talking about being on the same page. And so we were talking training camp earlier, Tom and the Patriots had a joint practice with us early on. And he's talking about motherfucking people. We're having the Patriots come in. And the biggest thing we took away was the leadership and ownership that Tom took

over everything. And this just in like a training camp practice. And like, hey, motherfucker, come in motion. Like, he was yelling at guys, not going to motion, not doing the right thing. You could tell you guys were so dialed in as a group. And it all started with you. And I would have gladly been motherfucker to be honest. Dude, that's the thing.

You got to be willing to get motherfucked out. here, man. You got a little bit willing to... That's why I love having my guy, Eric Biener me, back in the building, man, because guys are getting motherfucked all over the field. And all of a sudden, you get a little bit more a sense of urgency going and you get a little more focused in.

Like, oh, shit, I can't be the one getting motherfucked today. I know. And, Trave, I think that was kind of like when I started, that was the norm for football players. Like high school, college, pros. It was all about like... Old school ball coach. Where's the urgency to get it right?

And Bill would always say something really good to us as a team. He always come in and say, you know, you have Wednesday practice, Thursday, practice Friday. He would say, you know, coming on Wednesday morning, be like, listen, don't go out there and mess up a bunch of things today. We can't do them over on Thursday. We got a whole other pile of, you know, stuff to put it on Thursday. And then on Friday, same thing.

Like, lock in, today's a big day. And that just created always this urgency for our team. And I felt like, you know, I took a lot of things away from my time in New England. And, you know, obviously I thought I had like a lot like you guys, you know, you have great teammates and you have people that are going to be friends for life because you were all doing this really challenging thing together. But there was like an urgency, whether it was May to have the best OTA we could have or end of July when we had our first training camp. Like we had to have great practices every day because the competition is year round in the NFL. And if we were going to

beat the other good teams, well, they were having good practices. So we needed to have a good practice. And just day in and day out, I think there was a, there was definitely a stress to it. That was, there was an intensity of stress to practice. Like, I can't go out there and just, you know, suck today at practice because I set the tone for the whole team. So I developed like this competitive urgency within myself. And you can feel that certainly all those years in, Jay, when we would come in practice against you guys. But I was locked in and I just felt like if I did that, well, then the other guys had to do it. And if they had to do it, then the coaches had to do it.

and then it just kind of volleyed off one another. And, you know, we didn't win them all, but, you know, we were competitive probably in most, you know, in almost all the games I played. And I think it was for those reasons. Hell yeah. Being able to challenge that fucking intercompetitor every fucking day and about every single detail.

That's, I mean, you're doing that in the dog days, man. That's just going to show up in the fucking games for sure. Yeah, we talk about it all the time. When your best player is the guy that is doing all this and he cares that much and he's holding, that's the guy who usually sets the standard. And if he's just naturally that gifted and he doesn't have all these other things

and all these other guys also need to be applying, whether it's the time in studying, the time in knowing what you're doing, the time in communicating, all that stuff, that's got to be from the top down. And when the quarterback does it, it just makes all the difference. Thank you to our presenting sponsor,

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use of fiber coaxal cable. We're going to get Mendoza out there motherfucking some guys or what? Hey, I know. I think it's in them. I think it's a mother freaking them or whatever. Yeah, mother freaking them. There we go.

There we go. I mean, we'll get it out of them somehow. Hell yeah, man. It won't take that long in the NFL to like be like, all right, this is the way stuff gets done and this is the urgency I got to create. Mother freaking them is so good, man. I think too trout, like if you think about it,

A lot of guys have had so many people tell them how good they are. And again, something that's unique in the NFL, like you're a high school player. You're probably the best player on your team. So it all goes pretty well. Then you go to college and you're probably one of the top five on your team, so everything goes pretty well. But you finally get to the pros,

you got an agent that tells you how good you are all the time. You have a significant other that tells you how good you are. You have a mom that tells you how good you are. You have a dad. So in the end, who really tells you the truth? You know, and who tells you where you need to get better? And that's the role of the head coach. Like, he has to be the one that says,

I don't give a shit what, you know, the blog says or the daily writer. I care about what I think because it's my vision for the team. And again, I was blessed to have Coach Belichick, who I believe is the greatest head coach of all time. I think Andy's like that to a degree. I know he's a different style. But there's part of it that that position, like you can't be like, hey man let's go out there and have a great day like we're gonna have so much fun and like you know

if something goes wrong and it's like oh don't worry we'll we'll fix it tomorrow and like everyone leaves every day feeling like they were great and they did great but the reality is they're not really prepared for what's coming on Sunday because NFL football is hard yeah and to beat the chiefs or to beat the Eagles in a Super Bowl is hard you better if you play one of the best teams in a league and in this sense it's like I play both you guys in Super Bowl you better play every play great to give yourself a chance if you play 20% of those plays poorly, you're not going to win. And why waste all the time through April, through May, through June,

there's a big commitment to make that everybody sacrifices if you're not going to go out there to try to beat the best teams. You can play pretty average against the teams that don't really have a chance. But the teams that are really great, the six or eight, every year that have a chance, you better have an urgency to beat those teams because that's the real competition in the NFL. Oh, yeah. Tom's getting me fired up. I told you, dude.

I told you. It's something about it. I mean, you talked about maximized your opportunity. I mean, you had the greatest statistical performance ever by a quarterback in the Super Bowl when you played us. Nick Fulz caught some type of magical, like, thing. I don't really know what was happening with Nikki that day, but he was on fire. But you, what was that like having that kind of shootout?

It still goes down as my favorite football game ever to be. Wow. Like, seriously, that game was insane to be in that stadium and watch you guys duke it out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's, you know, when you, win the Super Bowl, like, I mean, you guys played better than we did that day. So there's like, there's never any, may the best team win. I always kind of say that, like, who you room for?

May the best team win? I don't know. You guys were the best team that day. It was really hard for us because we did play good on offense. But defensively, you know, we just couldn't figure out of what. You guys kept making big plays. The running back makes this great catch in the end zone. Right. You know, I think it was Alshan. Was Alshan? He caught a touchdown pass. And we just, the Ertz caught a touchdown pass. He had a couple fourth down conversions. Yeah. You were just always one step ahead of us the whole day. And we finally caught you in the fourth quarter on a touchdown throw to Gronk.

And then you guys got that fourth down. Yes. And then went down and scored. And I was like, we finally caught up and it took us all day to catch you up. And you know what in the NFL, when you're behind, you do feel like you're unsettled. You never feel in control if you're behind in a game. And that game, we were basically behind the entire day. So even on the bench, and even though we were moving the ball well, I saw that you're

I still felt like we were not in control of the game. And then all of a sudden, we finally got the lead, and then you guys went right down the field, scored, and then Brandon Graham made a great rush on Shaq and strip-sacked me, and, you know, that was it. I mean, you talk about feeling uneasy not being behind. We were ahead, and I was uneasy because I saw you on the other side. If there's one guy that's good playing from behind, this is the guy.

So, like, what do you think about your career? I don't know that there's anybody. I mean, Pat is certainly up there in, two-minute plays, but what do you think made you so good in those situations? First of all, I had great teammates that played great in those situations. And we worked on it. We practiced. We walked through.

And there's always something nice about two-minute. In some ways, it gives the quarterback a lot of rhythm to play in when things are going well, when you're in a good rhythm in two-minute. Because it's not like they can run a lot of variety of defenses. And I was a very, I was all about preparation. So I felt like if I could get you into a two-minute situation and I could get you to play defense and I could get you the clock running

and you would have to signal. And like I would be like, all right, I'm going to snap it before they're ready and let's hit some completions. And again, I just push our guys to constantly, I was going to find the open receiver because I could read coverages really well and I was always going to try to throw to the soft spot

the defense. I mean, I could, one of my biggest, well, my biggest weakness was my lack of mobility and my lack of ability to scramble and make a play. And in many ways, that turned into the best thing that I did, which was forced me to over-prepare, to over, you know, to read defenses and to throw to open guys.

Like, I didn't have the option to, like, pull it down and run. So I had to make sure we had guys open before the ball was snapped. So I was constantly looking at the coverage. I was constantly seeing the defensive scheme and then trying to, you know, get our guys in the best position. And I would throw it, Gronk would catch it. I would throw it. Jules would catch it. I would throw it. Danny would catch it. I would throw it. I can list goes on. I mean, I played with so many great players, but it was really a great unit.

And, you know, that was some of the best part of football was just two-minute drives. And it was it was a chance for you to go out and be like, all right, games on the line, man. This is like, this is what we do in the school yard, you know, but games on the line. Let's see what we got. Well, in that game, I still, I mean, the BG sex, but even after that, you guys got the ball back. And up until that ball fell on the ground, that last Hail Mary attempt, I'm still like, dude, Tom could still find a way to get this done. Like, and I'm not even believing it was over then, but let's get to some of the good stuff. Seven times Super Bowl champion.

Yeah. Oldest Super Bowl champion, I believe. Is that oldest starting quarterback's football champion? Oh, yeah. No, I saw it firsthand. Do you have a favorite one? What is your favorite? Yeah, do you got a favorite one out of all?

I don't want to sound arrogant because that's not. I would say they're all different, first of all. and they're all different meaningful because they're kind of tell a different story. Oh, yeah. I think one that was like the 2014 one against the Seahawks. You'd probably say like the Atlanta one where we came back from all those down a bunch of points.

But the one, I won three really early. And it was kind of like, ah, you know, what's so hard about the NFL? You know, and that's something like a little bit. I mean, no idea. I mean, it was like I went to Michigan. We were good in Michigan. Oh, yeah.

I won two bowl games and then I got to the pros. My first year we won the Super Bowl and then, you know, my next year we didn't and then we won two back to back. So I was kind of like, like, there's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to start season, work hard, you know, and then win. That's okay, a big deal. But then we lost in 07 to the Giants. Then we lost in 2011 to the Giants.

And then we played Seattle in the 2014. So we'd gone 10 years and I had three years to three times we won it. Then I had two where we lost it. And then I was like, man. And then 2014 came and we're going against the, the Legion of Boom and we're down, I think 10 in the fourth quarter or, or, yeah, 10 in the fourth quarter. And then we end up having just the most incredible, you know, last, again, last 20 minutes of the game. And defense played incredible. I mean, that stopped down at the goal line.

It was, it went from like, you know, again, we were losing most of the game. We finally got a lead in the fourth quarter. They drove right down the field. And then Dante Hightower made one of the greatest plays in Super Bowl history, tackling Marchon, getting blocked, had like one shoulder out. somehow got Marchion on the ground, which like 10 guys can't get Marcia on the ground. Dante did it with like one shoulder. Yeah. And then Malcolm makes one of the greatest defensive plays in the history of football.

And everyone after the game talked about, you know, oh, not handing the ball to Marshawn. I was like, how about that play by Malcolm Butler to like pull the trigger? Yeah. Yeah, to pull the trigger on that as a rookie to like go over the top of the pick and the acceleration burst. And then it was all or nothing. Yeah. Yeah. It was crazy.

Yeah. Whenever I'm a receiver and I come out of a break, I'm, I'm always trying to minimize the opportunity for the defender to beat my angle. Yeah, he's got to go through you to get to the ball. He's got to go through me. That's a part of my size and my strength in being a pass catcher. And I thought he had a good angle coming in. Now, maybe he could have gone in there with a little bit more tempo,

but it's kind of like one of those plays where it's like the RPO's you want to kind of come in with some time. Whatever it was. But I thought the angle was good. And Malcolm just fucking shot it, man. And that goes to like the. I'm sure the film breakdowns and all the... I love the story behind it. They talked about preparing for that exact situation before it happened.

I don't know if that was like in a 30 for 30 where I saw Bill talking about that. But I love when the preparation carries over. And then, I mean, the moment there, I mean, you could not have a bigger moment for a guy, a young player to really go out of his way to take a chance. Tom, I've always wanted to ask you this because there is, you have this ability. and we kind of talked about it before, about just like the rhythm in which you always commanded the offense. It's just you feel like you've always got control of the game

and everybody's kind of going at your rhythm. Was there a point in your career where you started to understand that? Or was it always just kind of within your preparation, how you guys ran the offense? You know, my college experience was really unique. My first three years, I didn't play at all in Michigan. And again, if I was around these days, I probably would have transferred to another school because, you know, it was simple to do.

But, you know, Michigan was a really tough experience in terms of my ability. I had to grow up. I didn't have brothers. I had three sisters. You know, I was the youngest. I got baby by my mom. I got baby by my dad. I got baby by my sisters.

I go to Michigan, which is a long way from California. It's freezing cold. I didn't have a jacket when I went there. And I sit on the bench my first year, you know, and I really had, I would call it, like, a lot of self-defeating attitudes and behaviors. I always had an excuse. I always had, you know, coach, coach doesn't want me in there. Creeping real easy.

Yeah, they're not giving me the opportunity. And I had a sports psychologist who unfortunately, he passed away about a year ago. His name was Greg Hardin. And he started really psychology on me. And I would go into his office every Tuesday. And he would say, you know, Tom, I like you. You know, you work hard, but like, you have a shitty attitude. and how about you start worrying about what you can control?

And stop talking about the other quarterbacks. Stop talking about the coaches, not putting you in. How about you take advantage of the opportunities you get? And every time you go in there, you bring energy, you bring enthusiasm. If they give you three reps, you do the best with the three you get. Quit bitching about you only getting three or you going in there with the backup receivers. No one cares. You go in there, you bring energy.

you treat practice like it's a game. You go out to that practice field like it's the big house in your plan on and house eight. If you throw a touchdown in the two minute in practice, you celebrate like it's the game. Hell yeah. And I was like, well,

I never approached like that. And he goes, you're going to gain, you know, a lot of trust and a lot of confidence from your teammates. If you start treating that way, because it's going to improve your play. Sure enough,

my energy started getting way better. I was bringing juice. I had the right attitude. And then it started to improve. And my second year, it got way better. My third year, I competed with Brian Greasy to be the starter. Brian beat me out. Our team went undefeated, won the national championship.

But I learned a lot. Watch Brian be a great leader. Then all of a sudden, I'm like, fuck, I'm bringing the juice, man, every day. Boom, I'm bringing in practice. Yeah, every day. And that's what I did. And then we actually were, I was pretty good, you know, my fourth and fifth year. Then I went to the pros.

And again, the pros is like, everyone is like, hey, man, it's a good day. Like, don't cover me on scout team, you know? And here comes Tom Brady, scout team quarterback. And I'm trying to, like, you know, beat up the defense. Yeah. And that really helped me, again, that helped me, like, get better. And then finally going into my second year, I won the backup job because I was so competitive and I was so fiery.

And no one was going to unseat Drew Bledsoe. He sent a 10-year, $100 million contract in 2001. Not right, man. I mean, that was a lot of money then. And then Drew got hurt in the second game. And I came on. And I remember the defensive players like, William McGinnis would come up to me and lawyer Maloy and they'd be like, Tommy, like,

man, you just keep doing what you're doing, man. You keep, so they could just sense that like there was a part of me that really loved it. I was, I was obsessed with the sport. I loved the practicing. And then I loved the leadership part. And I really loved the preparation. Then I got really into the game. And Peyton Manning was the guy that I always looked up to, you know, as a kind of a rival,

because I thought he was the epitome of a field general. He got his team in the right play. And then I watched him. He's throwing for all these touchdowns. every year. So it was like if I could get the mental part right, I was getting good at the emotional, the competitive stamina, the leadership. And then my physical body started to catch up to me. And then it kind of all came together and like, I would say 2003, I started to turn into like what I would become. But it was a process. It was like, I would say it was definitely built by, you know, a lot of

people that supported me in the journey. And then I was just really open to learning. I was curious about everything and then I wanted to go out there and and be my very best. And so it's just a progression of a lot of things, a lot of people and then kind of putting it all to use. Hell yeah, that's awesome. I love that story from college, man. Yeah. That, that, it resonates so much, not only with me, but I've seen guys not handle that conversation the right way. You know, it's easy to be negative and to not only just point fingers, but to look at what's going on around you and create an excuse. But in the reality of things, if you come in with the right fucking mindset and the right

energy, man, one is you're going to enjoy what you do 10 times more. But then on top of that, it's infectious, man. That energy is infectious. You could, I mean, everywhere you've gone, you've had success and you've, you've been a part of like more than just yourself in bringing it like bringing winds and everything like that. But those memories that you create because of the energy and the, and the mindset that you bring into the building. That's what, you know, the teammates and the people you go to work with

are going to remember you most for it. Well, it's also a productive mindset for a player. Yeah. Like, this is always one of things that really sucks when you start losing games and you see the finger pointing start or like, hey, we're not doing this, we're not doing that. And you have to try and like remain like, dude, just control what you can control. Like, be the best center you can be. And if you can be a way to help somebody by putting them in a better situation, being a great teammate, but dude, and that's a do your job. I know that was like Bill's main thing forever. Yeah, totally.

But like when you're thinking about all these reasons that are outside of your control, what the fuck good is that doing anybody? Totally. It's so pointless. It is so pointless. There was a great quote that, you know, I saw that was like every brick, you know, every brick in the road that you put down is an opportunity for you to travel that road to be successful. But every brick you put in a wall is just an excuse that blocks your opportunity to get to where you want to get to go.

And I think you create excuses and they're very built in. And again, think about how we're living these days with these guys that come in that everybody, their agents, their mom, dad, their sisters, their brothers, they all are, they're willing, okay, you lose a game. And losing sucks. It feels horrible for all of us. And it's amazing to have the support from people to come in and go, hey, man, it's not your fault. It was the defense's fault. Not your fault. It was the rest fault.

It was the rest fault, not your fault. And the reality is maybe that helps for like five seconds. Yeah, right, yeah. But in the end, it doesn't change any of the outcomes. And I always feel like if you really wanna grow up, just take it all on yourself. Just say, no, it's my fault, I gotta do better. I gotta do better.

I got to, you know, like, I heard Wembe talked the other day after the game. And he said, like, and they had a great finals. It was a tough game. Knicks were on fire. They won however many, 15 to 16 playoff games. 13 or 14. Insane.

And then, you know, there was a part of Wemby said, we dominated every game. And I'm like, it's not the point. Yeah. You know what? Like I just, I want to, I want to just, and I love Wemby, don't get me wrong. I love him.

Like he is the most mature. He's gonna have a tremendous career. But it's also like, I always think when I see people talk, how would I answer that question? And a reality for everybody is like, they were better than we were. And we gotta do a better job. That's actually very motivating.

Like they were better. We need to do better. Great. That's what it takes to win the championship. You know, we were better. You guys were better than us, Jason, when we played you. Trav, like, we had a better day than you. It actually doesn't mean we're a better team. We had a better day. But it sparks a fire if you have the right approach. Like that game, I took the same approach in my mind.

Like, it doesn't matter what the team did. What can I, what could I have done better that day to be more accountable, to light a fire in my team, to to create a better, whatever it was on the side. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, you, you immediately have to look at yourself in the mirror and, and aggressively attack yourself, you know, and it'll make you feel better knowing that, you know, you dissect it and you've done even more to better yourself, to be more prepared, to be more accountable.

You'll feel better about the next opportunity. Yeah. And even as it translate, and for both you guys, you know, Jay, you've retired, Travis, you know, at some point you will. But like all that does translate into other parts your life beyond. Yeah, I know. I'm never doing it. Keep going, baby.

Keep going. To the last moment, literally, to the last moment. But like, I've been around great entrepreneurs as well. And I would say that attitude where they put everything back on themselves is makes them very successful business too. Yeah. So, like, people who are, I've seen, and very fortunate, again, to be around some amazing businessmen.

And like, I see the way they approach that way. and they're like, I got to do better. I got to motivate him more. I got to this. I got to get on floor. I got to understand that better. I got to make that decision. And I was sit there and like, oh my, my, that sounds like the crazy part that I was.

Right. But that's actually the only way it works. Yep. You know, it's the only way that businesses work. It's the only way relationships work. It's the only way football teams work. It's the only way hockey teams work. It's like everyone work hard, have humility, have self-awareness.

No, you could do better. Believe me. Football, you never, how many games have you guys walked out of and go, well, I was perfect today. Like, man, I don't. That was basically a single game. Exactly. So, you know, we all have the opportunity to be better.

Well, let's talk about some teammates of yours, big guy. I got to hear you talk about Grunk, man. He's been one of my favorite players since he's gotten to the league. Your guys' chemistry is unbelievable. Just how he enjoys the game and how he lives life, man. I've always admired the guy from a distance, man. But what was your first impression of Grunk when he got to New England? Yeah, I mean, at that point,

there was like a big expectation of our team when he got there. Like we had been, we had like a good 10 year run. And I think we needed a big refresh of energy. And Gronk brought it. He was like free, fun loving, like, you know, Gronk, you know, how he is and how you see him anywhere is how he's one of the most authentic people you ever be around.

And like football's hard, you know, but Grunk always found a way to bring, you know, kind of light to it. And he, Gronk was really, Ronk was really unique. I think Grunk was the greatest blocking tied in in history. Branc could handle defensive ends. He was at the point of attack in the run game. Like, we didn't care.

We would rather go to Gronk than the open side tackle a lot of times. That's crazy. Yeah. And so that's a really underrated part of his game. And then as a pass catcher, you know, he was never going to be like the twitchiest. But his straight line, when he would run seam routes or, you know, middle reeds or flag routes, he was off the chart. So there was just part of his game that was,

it was very natural for him. He was really a natural athlete. And I think we, our environment kind of kept him really serious, which I think that's probably a good thing for him in the end. Because I think if he was on another team where the coach let him get away with a lot of stuff, Gronk maybe would have veered a little that way.

But I think our team kind of made him, you know, a little more confined. And he still had a great time. But, man, I think he really match. in New England than other places. It's all about balance, too. Sometimes when you have a team that's so, like, very straight line, having a guy like Gronk lighten it every once or whatnot, you need that too, right?

Totally. Mike Brable was like that when he was at the page. Yeah. Braves, man, Braves cut it loose. He was like, Randy Moss was like that. Matt Light was one of the most, you know, the funniest guys I've ever been around. He kept that light for everybody. Yeah, Matt's been on, I don't know if he's been on Julian and Gronks podcast a couple

times. I've never really talked to the guy, but some of the clips coming out. I'm like, dude, this would be a fun teammate to be around for sure. You guys got to get him on your show at some point because he's, he's one of a kind. He's an amazing, amazing player and teammate. Was there any other tight end that you've ever seen like Gronk? Is he like a one-of-one because of his ability? And to your credit, like Connor Barron, who I played with in Philly and in college, he said the same thing years ago about Gronk. Like, he's like, dude, like, normally we go up against a tight end, we're salivating. Like, we have a, like, whether he's going to be in Passport or the run game.

You do not get blocked by the tight end and Gronk was the one guy where he's like he's the Anomelago this guy will is manhandling D-Ns and a lot of times too like you would think you would think that like he loved blocking and I think because he didn't want to go out and run a lot of routes he would be so tired and he's like hey just keep me in and run behind me like I like that and he'd be like just body in people oh yeah and then he would be like he'd be totally cool with that but he was pretty unique like I really you know early in my career I had Graham who was a really good run blocker Ben Watson I had Kyle Brady in 2007 and then we had a little stretch Ben Ben was still there in 2009 and Ben was really strong and really athletic but just

wasn't at the point of attack as good as grong and then and then we got gronk and gronk was a dominating tight-in and then when we didn't have gronk I as a quarterback for the first time in my career realized oh shit like we lose those matchups all the time like not only is that not neutral it's a loss So now everything's to the open side. Or now you're flashing the tight end back all the time. And again, it just limits what you're able to do. And look, that's life in the NFL. I mean, you're never, not everyone's good at everything.

I mean, you got a game plan and that's what good coaches do. You got to, you know, everyone's got to. And if you're an elite pass catcher, that's amazing. You're going to be on the field a lot. You know, sometimes if you're really good at run blocking and a really good pass catcher, you know, you could be a great player. Oh, yes. Well, he was the jack of all trades. And he was a dream piece for any office.

of coordinator, both in the run game and past game. He had a little bit of like a skip to my loo and he played with his tempo in his routes. Yeah. Like a lot of his deep crosses or a lot of his in breaking routes or if he had a soft coverage on it, he would play with his tempo and it made him feel faster in his routes than I learned so much from just watching him just run like deep crosses or deep cross like basic routes or even outrouts and stuff like that but it's there's only so much you can do when you watch gronk in terms of like trying to incorporate it into your game because the guy just had such a like

a gift and like a feel for the run game that it just it was it's one of a kind man and and his ability to get the inside hands he has long arms man he's always been strong as an ox yeah and just the physicality to get into a bar fight every single play is it's one of a kind Do you have a favorite Gronk story? I know you. Yeah, I do. It's kind of probably hard-in- It's a one.

Let's go. What we got? I got a good one. All right. So, Gronk, like, gronk is, okay, Gronk, I love Gromk.

Grong did never work. You know, like, a lot of receivers, tight-ins will work on catching drills. Yeah. So, like, you know, afterwards hit the jugs machine, you know, 100 catches,

and all the receivers did it. Julian would come at like six in the morning and throw tennis balls off the wall and do one-hand drills. I never saw Gronk ever. do any catching drill ever. And I would throw the ball. And every ball I'd throw to gronk. Like he'd have these big white

gloves, right? And when you put his hands up like this, it looked like the top of a trash can that I would try to hit. And he would run across the field. And he would go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. With like, like, so he'd like a smile on his face.

And I throw it and it would, the ball would just the ball would just stick to his hands, right? So it was like unbelievable. So one day, it's like his, it's like third year in the league. all right and we're at practice and i throw him a ball and it like hits like the palm of his hands and like falls on the ground and gronk looks at me and it's like what what was that like what just happened so he goes Tommy throw me throw me the ball again and i took the ball and i fired at him

and he caught it and he it was like he gained his confidence right back he goes Okay. Okay. All right. And by the way, for the rest of the career, I never saw him do a catching drill. There you go. So it was like there was a five second loss of confidence in a receiver's career. And it was like, I'll never forget it.

He was just like so lovable. And you're like, come here, man. You're fucking, you're unbelievable. The laughing while he's running full speed is the most grunk thing I've ever, like, felt. Absolutely. He's just having fun going fast. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, we.

I know. I know. What a dude, man. You sure was. Thank you, your partner, Enterprise. The final match of soccer's biggest tournament is fast approaching, with corner kicks being taken and Enterprise giving away cars on every corner kick goal. And there's still time to win one yourself. The moment of corner kick is called, post on X, hashtag on every corner,

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Did he really come see you at the team hotel? So Randy, when he was at the Raiders, we were playing in 06, we were playing at Minnesota, and he flew, it was a Monday night game. He flew after a game to meet in a team hotel. And of course, at the time, I'm like, I don't know. It's not like I'm the general manager or anything. And he showed up, and they're like, Tommy, Randy,

the Randy's here. So I went and saw him. He's like, yo, man, I love the way you play. Man, I want to like, I want to figure out how to make it happen. Of course, I'm like, all right, like, why are you talking to me? I love that too, but, you know, and then sure enough, yeah, like it all, the trade goes down in 07 and we got Randy. And all of a sudden it was like, well, what can, you know, a lot of people saying, well, he's done. What can he do? He comes into OTAs and he wasn't in the best of shape in OTAs, like, you know, probably not most. He probably had a few years in Oakland where, you know, it wasn't the most motivated,

so probably didn't get the best out of him. So he's kind of getting guarded by some people in OTAs, by like some guys he shouldn't be guarded by. And I'm kind of like, when is he gonna turn it on? All of a sudden, we get to training camp and we run the conditioning test. And Randy comes, he takes his shirt off, he's lean, like, in shape.

He's running the conditioning test like a deer. All of a sudden, we get out there. It's like probably like the second week of training camp, and we run a flee-fleeful. Flickr and Randy's the intended receiver and I throw it literally as far as I can. And Randy's run, he beats the safety and Randy would always kind of lolly off the line of scrimmage and he would always just watch the safety. So he'd lolly at the safety and as soon as the safety either came forward or flat footed,

then Randy would just take off. Hit the gas. So Randy hits the gas. I throw it as far as I can. Randy opens up and just as he's sticking his arm out, he grabs his hamstring. Oh. And tweaks his hammy. So he misses the rest of training camp.

Doesn't play a preseason game. And now it's like, all right, week one, we still don't know what Randy can do. And we go out there against the Jets in week one. And we had this play. The Revis Jets, right? This is the Revis Jets. Revis wasn't, Revis was, that was Revis's rookie year. Yeah, was Revis's rookie year.

So we start the game. Randy catches a few balls. And then there was a ball on the sideline. He kind of ran like, I don't know what you'd call it, but like a deep out route, but kind of you stem it in, you stem it up the field. China route.

Yeah, and then you run to the side. It's probably 18 to 20 yard throw. And they had a good rush on, and I could feel the rush coming, and I knew Randy was running an outbreaker. So I kind of like, just as I was getting hit,

I threw it. And as I was going to the ground, of course, you can't see anything. And I'm thinking, all right, I kind of was throwing it out of bounce. Yeah. And all of a sudden I hear the crowd go,

oh. And I looked up and I was like, he caught that. And when you see the highlight, he like catches it outside of, you know, the frame, he's over his head and he taps his feet. And what should have been,

you know, just a foul ball, he ends up, it's like a 20-yard gain. And at that point, I was like, this shit's going to be different. Yeah, it'll be cool. And I threw a few balls. We had some routes that were one-man routes, literally play-action fake,

nine people in protection. You know, I was quarter of 10. And then Randy, we called one called a pistol route, where if it was too high, he ran at the near safety and then broke to the high flag or the post and ran across him. Or then if it was a post safety, he ran at the post safety. And if the corners stayed behind him and he felt like he wanted to go back

to the high seven, he could take it. A lot of times you ran across the field, but I would have to throw it, you know, 65 yards. And it was like- You got to make a decision, Randy. I'm going to say, how do you know where he's going to go? You don't. Yeah, yeah.

You don't. And he would just turn on the gas. The great part about having a really fast receiver is when you see your receiver running fast, and I would say for the most part, NFL DBSs are faster than receivers in general. I'm not saying always, but you can't be a slow DB in the NFL. Just slow DBSs, you could be a receiver

that's not that fast and still be productive. You can't be a slow DB. All those guys run four three, high four three, low four twos, low four, sorry. So Randy, because of his speed, I knew he was faster than everybody on the feet. So whenever I saw Randy's speed, I could just gauge my ball flight and the trajectory of the ball on his speed. And when he started running, I just threw it as far as I could to gauge Randy's speed.

A lot of the times, which meant the further and higher I threw it, the better chance Randy had to catch it. For most receivers, the higher you throw it and the further, the more the DB has a chance to catch up. Yeah, you're bringing up what I, like, what really stands out with Randy is that tracking of the ball. when it's in the air, right? Like, that ability to, like, turn it into, like, another gear. The only other guy I've ever seen do it is Deshawn Jackson. Deshawn, yeah. Like, those are the only two that I can think of,

where when that ball is up there and hanging, they just separate. Yeah. Is that, like, that's got to be, like, an underrated attribute. To be able to not slow down while you're doing that. You know what I mean? Because it's one thing to put the head down, put the shoulders down and dig. It's another thing to be able to keep that speed

and find the ball. They weren't digging. They were just like gliding. Like they just like didn't. It still looked like normal speed. I know. And what happens a lot of times when you turn your neck, you turn your shoulders.

So no one would say run a 40-yard dash at the combine, but turn your shoulders back to the starting line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Randy had a long neck, you know, because he was tall. So he could kind of turn his neck because the guys are really thick in the traps and don't have a long neck. It's really hard for them to turn their head.

you know, when you turn your head, you tickly slow down. That's why Jason's golf swing so's tight. Stop. Stop. Stop it. Such a unique skill set. Crazy. It really is, man. And you know who had a Tyreek Hill is another one? Oh, my God.

He didn't have that stride that the two we were just talking about, Deshaun. It was different. But he, but his ability to find the ball and to meet it down is second and none, too. Drive, you must have seen some crazy plays in practice from him. It's insane. It's insane. The first, I told everybody the year we got him, I think he was a fifth or six-round pick. And the first day we got him, it was like a little seven-on-seven in OTAs.

And he caught, he caught like just like a flat router, like it was like a bubble-slant RPO. And he just, he was the bubble. He caught the bubble. Nobody got within two arms lengths of him. And he just ran down the sideline. And I'm just sitting here like, we just got the most electric player in the draft. Like, it was insane. dog and his ability. And you already know, a lot of the, a lot of the practice reps in is just like

what you were saying, just testing out how, how far a quarterback can throw it in which he, like, we can connect downfield if he can track it and seeing the plays that him and Mahomes would make in OTAs or in training camp and just testing the waters to see, you know, how far we could go. I mean, it's insane. I remember you guys played the Chargers maybe week one of that year and you were at that little Home Depot center, whatever is in the soccer stadium. The soccer stadium, yeah. The soccer stadium. And he caught a slant route.

It was that. And cribbed it. And I was like, oh, my God. Hit the 200. I was like, who? Yeah. Oh, yeah, I got a good story about that. So we play you guys one year.

And Bill was like, all right, the calls on third down are one double Travis, one double 87. And we didn't double Tarek. And Tyreek went for like 200 plus that game. And you guys beat us. And Bill came in the next day. days as we're doubling Tyreeks. Exactly. And we are not going to let him go for 200 on us.

So it was like back and forth on third down, who we were doubling. And it's so, I mean, it's kind of cool for us because you do see like, I mean, most NFL players are obviously supremely talented. And then every once in a while, you see someone who is just a little more talented than everybody else. And you go, man, that is a special talent. That's crazy. Yes.

And a lot of times it just stands out immediately. Oh, yeah. right away. Like, Aaron Donald is a pass rusher. I mean, is like everyone and then Aaron Donald's. Yes. You know, everyone, then Randy Moss. Everyone and then Derell Reuters.

Everyone and then Ray Lewis. You know, everyone and then Ed Reed. It's like, even if there's a Hall of Fame, and then to me, there's like one player that's like even better than every Hall of Fame. Dionne Sanders says it best, man. You guys got to find another hall for me to be in. Yeah. I love Prime when he says that.

I mean, it really is true. I think there's very few. players that aren't, like, it's not scheme dependent. It's not, like, doesn't matter who's on their team. Like, that guy would have been the best of all time, regardless of where he was and who he was with. Yeah. That's like a whole other realm of football player. I got to ask you about one more, one more teammate, man, one of my favorite of all time that everywhere he goes, he wins. Joe Tooney. Oh, wow. Big Tooney, man. You got to, you got any good Tooney stories?

Ohio. I got a lot, yeah. I just call him Looney Tunes. But Joe, Joe was like, I think, like a third round pick for us. And he played tackle at NC State. We moved in the guard, started as a rookie. We had a great old line coach. Yeah, Scott. Dante Scarnackia. And Dante was just, I can't say enough good things about him.

Like, what he taught me, what he taught the offense. He gave the line so much confidence. And like, you know, five guys in there, you guys all play together. He gave that line confidence through his techniques, but also everything was black and white with scar. There was no gray area. This is how we're doing it. And okay, if we can't get it that way, I'll change it.

But we're going to do. And everyone was so decisive. And they played well together. And Joe just came in and he embraced all that. He had, you know, David Andrews was next to him a few times as a center. I mean, he was just the perfect guard, size, strength. You know, probably he didn't have the longest arms, but it didn't matter, you know. But we moved him to a tackle.

one game and he was like I've never played tab i and dante said listen just fucking kick get to the junction point punch yeah yeah it was like okay that's all i got to do just give us a chance baby that's all i know and then yeah i mean he he's just he was a captain and he's just he always did the right thing i mean it was like no he showed up he was you know he he sweated his ass off i'm and he just he was the constant pro and he should be a champion he still is he's he's just a great player great guy we miss him as a teammate out there in k-s man. He's one of my favorite of all time. And we actually moved him to tackle for an entire season. And he took us to the Super Bowl the last one we went to.

Well, it wasn't the whole season, the end of the season. Yeah, it was like, yeah, but yeah. Through the playoffs and everything. Yes, exactly. We got to ask you, another one of our favorites, Jules. Tell us about, how does he go from like special team, but it was a quarterback at Kent State? QB, yeah, the Macian baby. Dude.

He was running the Mac, dude. Tell us that story. So he signed with the same agent that I had, so I knew who he was. Don Ye and Steve Dubin, who were agents, and he was from the Bay Area, so he grew up, like five minutes from where I grew up. So I knew who he was, and all of a sudden, we got back and Billy O'Brien was like,

hey, we're going down to check this kid out from Ken State. And I was like, of course, so he ends up being a punt returner to get started. We have Wes already at that position when we got Julian. So of course, my, I mean, West was one of the greatest teammates I ever had, one of the greatest receivers ever to play in football, West. Look at Wes' six-year stretch with us, it was unmatched. I mean, he was incredible.

And Julian comes in, and he's got a chance to learn from West, but we didn't really need Julian that much because we had someone in that position. But Julian just had a chip on his shoulder, you know? He was, and he worked his ass off. Julian had one of the greatest work ethics of anyone ever seen. And he, okay, so the difference is this.

When you play quarterback, like Julian did in college, The ball was in his hands and now he could do something with it. When you play receiver, you have to do something to get the ball in your hands. You don't line up behind the offensive line like the running backs do. So to learn to be a receiver, to learn how to run a route, to learn how to get open, to learn how your footwork, that's like an incredibly difficult skill set. And it took them years to figure it out. And to Julian's credit, you know, 2009, he played really what we had a playoff. game, we got our ass kicked against the Ravens. Julian was the best player on the field that day for our

team. And 2010, he didn't play much. 2011, he broke his arm, didn't play much. 2012, West was still there, so he didn't play that much. And then finally, 2013 came. After four years, you know, he played defense. He played punt returner. And then he just, he got way better at running routes. And again, just tenacious, tough. Like, Julian had juice every day. And, you know, he was just, he built himself into one of the greatest players of Patriots ever had. Yeah. That's not awesome, man. Is there something about that body type that, like, shortsawed off white guys?

Those feet are just moving quicker. We're going to get an option round on a guy in the slot, and they're not going to be able to redirect as quick as this guy. Like, you know what, in some ways, Jay, it was like, because, okay, our team was built differently than a lot of others. Like we didn't always have the highest paid players. In fact, when a lot of guys would have a chance to get free-ended contracts, Bill would, you know, trade those guys and let them get paid somewhere else. And then we'd have to replace them with lesser talented players. One position that's unique in the NFL is receiver.

Yeah. Like Jamar Chase makes 40 million a year. T. Higgins makes 30. Tyree Kill was making almost 30. We didn't have those players. So we had to like find production from other areas. other areas and slot receivers in the NFL don't get paid top dollar for receiver. So in a way, we paired like this team kind of receiver group with some rookies and some, I would say,

more role type players at receiver because we had these inside players, I'll call them, that play tighter the formation that could still be very productive because they had great route trees and they were very dead, maybe not vertical speed as fast as vertical speed, but they had short area quickness, and that short area quickness is what the game's all about. I would argue, would you rather be fast or have great short air quickness? I'd rather have shorter quickness. Football is a game of quickness, not speed. Timing, we can be on the same time and get shit done more with that short area of quickness

and getting that, like showing color and getting open over the middle of field, especially for the tight ends and the inside receivers. And, Trav, you're 6'5, how many, 250, 255, and you're, you're 6.5. you have twitchiness, you had size, length, you did have speed, and you did have, you know, they couldn't arm tackle you, and you had twitchiness. Your footwork is more like a slot receiver than is a tight end. So like there's a reason why you got open a lot like Antonio Gates always did. Man, I was just going to say, like him.

100%. Another Matt guy, Godgone. Ken State is getting a lot of love, man. All right. We're running out of time. We got to get this last section. Yeah, we don't want to. We got to ask.

We're going to start off back in. March, you also became part of the J.P. Morgan Chase Athletic Council. Can you tell us more about this? Yeah, I was got asked to be on a council with J.P. Morgan to try to influence and educate athletes to to make better financial decisions. And, you know, a lot of us grow up and look, we're good athletes and, you know, we try our best in school. But a lot of us are a little bit underdeveloped when it comes to managing our money, making good decisions, creating budgets. And it was put together. Jaylen Brunson's there, Asia Wilson, Dwayne Wade, are just a few of the people involved.

Nice. Megan Rapino, just there's a really great group of people. I'm missing on some others, sorry about that, but we kind of came together and we're creating opportunities for athletes for financial literacy. I love it. And it's pretty cool just for us to make a difference in other people's lives.

And a lot of us are blessed with people that give us great advice. Some people aren't. So we wanna be that place where people go to say, okay, well, You know, how do I make sure that I don't finish my playing career and not have any money? No, seriously. And it's becoming an even bigger issue with, like, the NIL and kids are getting paid earlier and earlier. And a lot of these kids in college, they've never seen any type of, like, does it?

Like, I learned most of this stuff in college, right? And they're getting money before they've ever talked to anybody about it. So this is awesome, man. Very, very worthwhile. Yeah, I spent all in my first check and regret it every second I didn't have anything to show for it. All of it went to rent and fucking. Yeah. Yeah, some car or something

whatever we bought. Yeah, no, I didn't even have a car. I stole Jason's car. I was spending money on way dumber shit than that. It's a car would have got me to the facility on time. No, that's awesome stuff, man. And you already know. It's something that's even bigger now with the college, how much they're making in college and things like that, like Jason said. But we have to ask, man, have you seen the clip?

We had a guy, Ben Affleck come on the show. One of our favorites. He mentioned a story. about playing catch with you. Have you seen that clip? We could probably find it here, but do you know what he's talking about? To this day,

aside from the birth of my children, that was the greatest day. I was like, dude, he was like, I need someone to play catch with, happen to be on vacation at the same place with him. So this was legit. This was as legit as it gets.

That's amazing. You were helping Tom get ready for the season. I was like, I don't know how much I was helping him. I think he was like, he was like, I'm going to blow this dude's man. I remember we're at Baker's Bay together. This was, yeah, I needed someone to catch me. We're getting ready for football season. Hell yeah.

And I was down there. It was a summer. It was quiet. And I'm like, like, hey, you know, can you catch? You know, and he's like, I can catch, you know? And I'm like, all right, let's go. This is so good. So I got all these balls around on that big field travi.

I don't know if you saw that field. I'm on the big field. They got it painted. And I'm like, all right, like, let's see what you got. You know, and you're a big, you know, he's obviously a big patriot. Love the Red Sox. And I had known Ben for a while. And I'm like, all right, here we go.

And finally, I remember getting to the end and I was like, I wanted to put a little pressure on and see what they all happened. And I was like, all right, fourth down, you know, Super Bowl's on the line. You know, I'm calling your number. This is the route where I think it was a flag route I gave him. And like, I'm going to throw it, see if you catch it. And he got running. I put one up there and he stretched his arm out and he caught it. And it was, you know, for all of us, I mean, can you imagine, like us as kids just thinking,

we're going to get paid to play football and, you know, throw passes. And, you know, think about Ben. He's thinking, you know, going to make movies. But then he's out there with this Patriot player. And I don't know, man, life is crazy for all of us. I was just going to say, did you know it was that big of a moment for him? Because, I mean, all of us have that sports fandom growing up of, like, doing that with the, in the moment with the guys that are doing it.

Like, I can only imagine how he felt. You have these perspective moments, and like, I think I was, I remember being out on the field. This is late in my career. And I would have, you know, they do like those charity gala and they give away like throwing sessions. Oh yeah.

And that once they give her out, like, all right, come catch passes with gronk. You know, and gronk's gonna run around and he's gonna teach you the art of receiving. And the guy paid like 200 grand. And I'll pay for an hour and do that. It was great. you know, donate the money to charity and then I'm sitting there like, I, they pay me to throw balls to gronk.

You know what I mean? And to throw balls to Julian and to throw balls to like, they pay me for that. Like never forget. You're getting balls from Patrick Mahomes. Like people dream. And he's throwing balls to Travis Kelsey. Like, let's never forget that type of perspective because when we were kids, we didn't ever have that, you know, growing up. Like it was our dream to do this.

Now they're paying you to do it. And they're paying you to do with other people who are, you know, the best in the world at what they do. So I just think that's a dream, baby. Yeah, exactly. Just great perspective to keep. I'd be remiss if we get out of this interview without bringing up the old ball coach. We didn't talk. We haven't talked about Bill one time yet.

Yeah. I see so many things. And this started happening while you guys were still in the league. Like, is it Bill? Is it Tom? Like who is responsible for the greatest era of success in the history of the NFL? So how do you react to those kind of, I guess, clickbaity arguments as well as, like, what do you think of Bill and what he meant for your success? First of all, I think he's the greatest coach that, you know, ever, a greatest head coach in terms of preparing a team to win.

There was nobody better. I was my privilege to play for him as his quarterback. There's no coach I'd rather choose. And I think it's like a dumb, it's just a dumb analogy. It's like what's more important, the left tackle or the center? Like, I don't know. Well, left check. We'll be honest about that one.

I disagree. I disagree. Yeah, I think from like the coach quarterback, there's nobody more important to winning Monday through Saturday than the head coach. Especially in football. Especially in football. And there's nobody more important on Sunday than the quarterback. Now, everybody's important. The person who washes the clothes is important.

The person who drives the bus is important. The quarterback just has an outside. his kind of ability to help the team win because he touches the ball so much. But I need everybody to do their job. But if you have bad quarterback play, it doesn't matter what else you do, you're not gonna win.

And if you have bad coaching, it doesn't matter how well the players are doing, you're gonna lose. So the tactics from the coach and the accountability, and I think the head coach is the chief accountability officer of a team too. The tactics are extremely important. Trap, you could run great route

into the wrong coverage and not get the ball. you have an OC that draws up bad plays because he can't beat coverages. It doesn't matter what you know. You'll ad lib and you'll be like, no, I'm not running out. You know, I was right there with you. You know, we're going to make him happen. No, baby, come on that. You're never going to be really covered.

You know, I have you covered off paper. I always give you an outlet. Yeah, you're going to find, you're definitely going to find some color to throw the ball to. So I just think that question is like, they're all important. And I couldn't have, there's no way I could have been the player I was without him. and I think we pushed each other to get the best out of each other

and I think he's just, he's incredible. Anyone who played underneath him would say the same thing. Hall of Famer should have been first ballot, man. It's crazy. One of the most respected ever to fucking do it, man. I got to ask you, you got one of my former teammates

recently in New England, all right? I know now you're a raider, but you're kind of always a patriot. Yeah. What is the key? Who knows what happened with the relationship with Jalen and AJ that's kind of between them?

But for you, How do you manage receivers and their happiness and being involved in the offense and all of that stuff? Like what is that from your role? It's very difficult. And I think that's the only position on offense that requires a lot of extra energy and attention because the running backs are going to touch the ball. The line, they're going to be engaged in every play. The tight ends, runner pass, you're going to be engaged in every play. It's the receivers who stand, you know, 25 yards from the ball, you know, just talking smack with the DB.

Trying to figure out, all right, I ran my ass off and didn't get the ball. And how do I stay locked in and committed to the team when I don't touch the ball? And it's a hard thing. Like, they're working hard to get the ball and they don't get it. So they get frustrated so easy. And I almost think, like, when I see these NFL off seasons, I think, I swear to God, I think now, like, this is just deja vu. I've been seeing the same shit since 2000 when I came into the lead. You know, this guy goes, gets, you know, this guy gets in trouble.

He's arrested. This guy gets cut. This guy gets traded. This guy's unhappy at receiver. It's every year. It's like real housewives of the NFL. And it's like it's the same script. And it's like over.

And we just that position, it's like I almost want to like the psychology of receiver. I almost want to say like you're going to catch 110 balls this year. Okay. You're 17 games. You're a great receiver. You're going to catch 110 balls. One game you're going to get 11. and one game you're going to get three.

And the next game you're probably gonna get 11, then you're gonna three. I can't have you like the happiest guy in the world when you catch 11 or the most miserable guy on the team when you catch three. We gotta look at it over the course of year. You gotta sustain, because it is a lot of emotional energy

that you put out to that position to go, come on, come on, we gotta, come on, stay locked man, let's go, because I need you, come on. And it's like, that position takes away, if you have that volatile, emotional output, it takes a lot of energy from a lot of people to keep that player really stable. So you got to like try to reframe it for them and just say, listen, like you may get three,

but you're going to get 11. Or you might get 11, 11, 11. And then, you know, three, three. It's just the way it goes. If they're doubling Travis, you ain't touching the ball. That's the reality. If they're butching you at the line of scrimmage with the defensive end and they've got, you know, some ridiculous athlete over the top of you, but it, for you.

it out for other people. And you got to be cool with that. So I mean, it's, that is a, as we're going to see it again this year. You know, who's the next unhappy receiver? And I understand it. I mean, I thought I don't, they want to be involved in the game, you know, and AJ wanted to be involved in. I covered a lot of those Eagles games, you know, and that, that passing offense isn't, that's not what that team's known for. You know, so now he's actually going to a team where they are more known for their passing offense. So, you know, there will be maybe a little more satisfaction for. him from that standpoint. We want to get you out of here. We got one more question. We always ask everybody that comes on. What was your welcome to the NFL moment? Oh, man, there's a lot of those. I had one probably in Buffalo. I was scrambling up the right side line. Nate Clements from Ohio State. He was a cornerback. He was a big physical corner and I slid late and he knocked a shit out of me. Oh, no. I got him. I just quit. I got a lot. I got up. The helmet, I was looking around. I I got taught in college, like, get your ass up. Don't ever let the defenders, you know your dad.

And I was like, got up and I was like, holy shit. No helmet on? No helmet. I can only imagine the face you were making. Like, it's the helmet sometimes. You can mask it. Yeah. Put that head down.

That's right. And then figure it all out. That was the one. Tom, cannot thank you enough. Really appreciate you coming on. This is an all-timer for us. All-timer, man. We can't thank you enough.

Thank you, Tom. Appreciate the time, the stories, dog. You're the best, dude. Yeah, I love you guys. Good luck with everything, and we'll see you soon, okay? Yes, sir. Sounds good. All righty, thank you to Tom Brady.

Once again, this conversation was brought to you by Xfinity. Tram, I told you, I saw him earlier this year. He's just the fucking best. And every, he's just so, he's so good with, like. Words? Yeah. Yeah. Does that come with Michigan?

I mean, how did he get that? I mean, he's probably. Yeah, I mean, Michigan does probably... I didn't get that, Sinty. No, Tom. I told you, I met him earlier this year, and I've always heard from everybody how, like, just intense he is and, like, how much he cares and, like, the type of player he was.

Yeah. And he's still like that. Like, you need him. Captivating. Like, he is so engaged in the conversation. He loves football so much talking about it. His teammates, his time. and he's so good at articulating all these themes in what made him successful.

Yeah. Those teams successful. There's so many good bits on what he said that you could just, you could fucking just, all you high school kids out there, bro, listen to what he's saying, man. Don't be a negative Nancy or bringing that weak-ass energy into the building or into the, into school, into life. And it's just so hard because he's so damn good-looking. I try to listen to what he's saying.

And I'm just like, what the fuck is. is happening. How are you the best football player of all time? A model. Do you see him on the runway the runway the other day? Yeah. He's literally walking down the runway. It looks just like a model. Gucci. How many gifts can one man have? I don't know, but... I got popular being a dumbass. Ditto. Even dumb or dumbass? Shout out to Tom. That was incredible. Awesome moment to have him on the show. Hell yeah. Now we're going to send it to some exclusive live show clips. That's right. This clip of our live No Dumb questions is brought to you by Enterprise.

All right, we're going to get some No Dumb questions. Let's give it up for Mr. Jets Jans. Let's go. We think the Nix, I mean, we think the Jets Jake tag might be a little too depressing. So how about Nick's Jake? Do we like Nick's? Let's go. There we go.

What do you got for us in the No Dumb Questions category? Here we go. First up is Charlotte. Hi. Okay, so I have two younger brothers. They're 10 and 14, and I swear they never let me live anything down. So if you could permanently ban your brother from telling one embarrassing story about you, what would it be? Wow.

Man. All right. It permanently banned my brother from telling one embarrassing story about me. I feel like everyone already knows my embarrassing stories. Jason doesn't really get embarrassed. He just showed that he sat in dog shit in Venice. What even showed it? It was just like, hey, guys, look at this.

I don't even get a chance to tell an embarrassing story about Jason. And to be fair, we don't really embarrass each other that much. I would say he usually teased up the opportunity for me to tell a story where I embarrass myself. So I'll tell you guys. Oh! So, not too long ago, but a long time ago. Are you really going to tell us? You want to tell us?

You sure? Yeah. All right, all right. What, it's not that bad. It's just embarrassing. I have face blindness. You guys know I have face blindness? Yeah, well, this is an episode of face blindness.

I go to New York, and there's a huge festival, music festival out in the Hamptons, and I'm a huge music lover, as you guys know. I go with a bunch of guys from New York in the money. world. So it's like a connection and like finances and I'm thinking that I'm going to be around a bunch of guys and finances at this music festival. So I get up there and I immediately start having beverages. It's kind of the thing, the Kelsey way of going about things. And I get shitfaced. Get shitfaced. Don't even really know who's on, who's performing at the concert. I'm just kind of up there like, hey, you got any more tequila? And a guy comes up

and says, dude, Buffett's here. He wants to meet you. I'm like, oh, shit, that's big money. I'm like, I am way too hammered to say hello to this guy. I start talking finances. I got to go ahead. Get it together. Get water.

Where's the water? So I get in water. I go over to meet Buffett. I would shake his hand. And, man, we have the best conversation I've ever had in my life. The man is literally smiling from ear to ear. I'm thinking I'm going to be rich here soon. He's going to invite me in all of his investments.

And he starts telling his story in high school when he picked up the guitar for the first time. And I was like, right to his face. No way! Warren Buffett played the guitar? And his face went from smiling

ear to ear to not smiling at all. And then got tapped on the shoulder because he had to go sing Margaritaville. So I was his biggest cheerleader singing Margaritaville on the side. So I have an episode of face blindness

at least once a month and that was my, that was me mistaking Jimmy Buffett, the late great, unbelievable Jimmy Buffett for thinking Warren Buffett was going to be at a music festival in the Hamptons. That's probably the most embarrassing story I

have for you guys that Jason doesn't tell, but he loves to tee that one up for. I love that story so much. Thank you very We have another one of we have another another question. Next up is Tara. Hi guys, my name's Tara. I am from Vegas, but... Oh, okay.

I'm really kind. I'm very fine in Las Vegas. Oh, yes. I'm a kindergarten teacher in Vegas, but... You're teaching them how to play blackjack or not? You know what? Gotta start young. Got to start young.

So, anyways, I'm from Vegas, but I'm originally from Wicliff, Ohio. Oh, the Wicliff, Wicl. I love it. Right down the street. Well, yes, I used to live directly next store to Aunt Judy. Oh, my gosh. Shut your trap. I swear to God.

Swear to God. The festival right behind the apartment. Oh, I went to Our Lady of Mark Carmel's school. How about it? She's not lying. What years is this? It's legit. What?

What years is this? Did you see us come through that neighborhood? Yeah, my mom tells me stories about your dad would bring you guys over to Aunt Judies and Randys. That's right. Yep. This is down memory. I appreciate you guys all appreciating this connection.

I know, right? Like, we are bonding. We are bonding. Is there a question? I just wanted to know, do you remember back in the day going to Aunt Judy's and visiting and possibly two little girls that live next door that you hung out with? Because we did. Oh, man.

No pressure. No pressure. Who's Aunt Judy? Your Aunt Judy, yes. My mom's name was Donna, too. Or is Donna. Sorry, she did not. But yeah, my mom's name is.

Sorry, Mom. Sorry, Mom, but my mom's name is Donna as well. We're trying to remember the other girls, seriously. Do you remember two little girls we would visit? Yeah, I think there was a number of people in that block area that we knew. Very true. And there was a lot of kids. There's definitely families in that neighborhood.

Yes. Getting clear. So, yes, I remember them vividly. Yes. I am going to use this time to shout out Aunt Jude. We have one of the best aunts of all time. And Uncle's Uncle Don. And Uncle Don is here as well.

We got some unbelievable hands of uncles. And I will say this. Going over to Aunt Judy's was one of the most exciting times every time because Aunt Judy spoiled the living shit out of us. What we didn't get from our parents, Aunt Judy made sure to have as soon as we walked to the door on. Oh, yeah. She taught me how to be a funcle.

We couldn't wait to go to Aunt Judy's. And now I go over Jason's house and hand out bubble gums like it's candy. Thank you so much. I got the bubble gun. And she was the only person I knew that would swear at my dad, and he would just take it. We love it. Thank you.

Thank you very much. One more? We'll do one more later. All right. Thanks, Jake. Jake, you got another no-dum question for me? Oh, there we go. We have two more no-dum questions for you guys.

First up is Sarah. Hello, I'm Sarah from Texas. Nice to be on. Let's go. My question is, if you were followed around for 24 hours, what is the habit that would shock people the most? Mom? That would shock people the most? Maybe how much deodorant I put on? You put on a lot? Yeah, I mean, I'm a spray.

Pre-dealer guy, but I'm like, Sh-Sh-Sh-Sh-S-S-H-S. I notice it in the green room. And then it's like, that's not the only place I have hair? Yeah. So then I'm like, Sh-Sh-Sh-Sh-Sh! This is all, this all makes so much more sense.

Nobody does that, right? What is a disgusting habit for Jason? This is a lot. I know. Everybody knows I don't use shampoo. What? At one point, said, if you're making me break out, in acne because you're not chimped I don't know I'm a hotspots guy hot spots hots spots hot spots hot spots all right well there you go it's pits this and that

that and this is no dumb questions ladies and gentlemen the questions that mean absolutely nothing that you'll learn way too much about somebody and you could have ever imagined you should go out and get our no dumb questions book do you you guys know we were authors I was proud there it is right there. I cannot read or write, but I got a book. What we got next?

We have a no dumb question from a familiar face. This is Kaysen from Texas. Ah! Texas in the house, Casey, I think I'll know you. A little bit. So I got the Jets Jake

pin-up tattoo. For those people who remember... Yeah, get that thing. There we go. He looks so much happier in a Knicks hat. So my no-dum-dum. question was I was wondering since the Cowboys won the

Chief's Thanksgiving game Oh fuck? Thank you for the tickets but we had a bet and if y'all won I would get you on my other thigh But I was thinking since I didn't know that Since they won and I got the Jet's Jake pin-up tattoo could I chug a beer with you guys?

Oh no The consequence is chugging beer You got lime or original? Lime. All right, these boys have been on ice. All right, I feel a little. I'm going to go air towards this way, case, and I don't want this thing falling.

There we go. There we go. Are we doing like a three-to-off? Are we chugging off? Are we just, you know, a nice little gentleman's chug. Whatever you want. Are we doing a chug-off? What?

What? What are we doing this? Jake, you got a whistle or something? Three-two-one. Three-two-one? I'm go, are you going three, two, one go. Three, two, one, go. All right.

Ready? Three, two, one, go. Even little brother. Was that as good as the pinup tattoo or no? That was great. I appreciate it y'all. Thank you so much. Cheers, brother.

Thank you, brother. Once again, shout out. Thank you for supporting and sponsoring the live show. Yes. Nothing parties like rental. Once again, that clip of live, No Them Questions was brought to you by Enterprise. And that wraps up another show and a season.

up New Heights. Thank you to all the 92% of us for tuning in. Thank you to our wonderful crew for putting the show on each and every week. It could not be possible without you guys. Thank you so much. Thank you to our wives and fiancés for allowing us to make fools of ourselves each and every week. Hopefully we haven't made too much for the household. Once again, New Heights is a Wondry show brought you by Expedia. The place you go to go places. 92%. Thank you so much for tuning in. each and every single week. We'll see you guys next year

with our 200th episode on the horizon, man. It's crazy, dog. It's absolutely crazy. You guys are crazy. We appreciate you and love you so much. And we'll see you guys next year to our production and team. We love you guys as well for always making it easy.

Yes, you, Brandon. Shout out to Brandon and you, Jake, even though you're not here. We love you guys. Peace!