New Rory & MAL - Best of Rory & Mal: Week of 10/20

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

This Week on New Rory & Mal, we debate if album variance is a cheat code, break down the NBA gambling scandal, and ask Miguel who he would like to collab with in the future All lines provided by hardrock.betSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a hear, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Joey Dardano.

And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice, known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know.

Listen to Help from Hypocrite Wednesdays on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. American Soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to Ernie. Score!

I'm Tab Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, inside American soccer, you'll get the real storylines. The biggest decision. and the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals

or potentially a great run into the semifinals. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. The volume. I'm actually calling with more of a music industry question for y'all. Okay. So as all of us have probably known by now, Taylor Swift has released her new album recently.

Yes. And whenever Taylor releases a new album, album, all of a sudden, the discourse of album variants comes into play, even though most major artists release multiple different variants of their albums. And it's crickets on the timeline. But then once Taylor does it, now there's this whole discourse about how she's greedy and she hates her fans, blah, blah, blah. And I did see on Twitter that Russ was kind of defending her.

And he made a really good point to me where he said, you know, if he decides to release merch or say new Roy Moll releases merch and they have a hoodie but they have that hoodie in seven different colors is that now all of a sudden greedy or is it just giving fans you know a variety and giving fans what they want no one's forcing them to buy seven hoodies um no one's forcing anybody to buy 10 different variants from taylor swift um so what are you guys's opinions on album variants are they a big deal is twitter just blowing this up because taylor's reached a level of fame where everybody's just trying to find a reason to tear her down. But yeah, what's your guys' opinions on this?

Thanks. I mean, he brought up the Russ tweet, and that's what I was going to bring up as well. I agreed with what Russ said. If you have the ability to create a fan base that will buy multiple products from you, I don't think there's anything to condemn there. Like, if you have that ability where they will be that diehard to spend their money. To feed your fan base? That way.

Like, it's not feeding. feeding your fan base, but I'm never going to get mad at Taylor Swift being so good at creating a cult that they will buy multiple versions of the same album. If that's what they want to do, I mean, this is still America, right? They can do what they want with their money. Yeah. I agree. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I agree. Now, if you want to feed your consumer. If you want to fight it on the basis of you feel like it's skewing numbers when you release a deluxe, a deluxe, a deluxe, and a deluxe deluxe. If you feel like it's skewing. numbers, you want to argue that. That's an argument that people have been having. I get that.

But skewing numbers, that's only become, well, let me not say only become something recently, but it's heightened in social media stand culture as of late. Of course, like once 50 and Kanye battled it out, that started the whole numbers talk for everything. But now it's to a whole different level. Numbers don't matter to the world. Like, it doesn't matter. Who cares if she manipulates the numbers there? Like, that doesn't affect anyone's life except for this label in her. That's not, well, that's not true. I don't, I don't think that that's what she's doing or I don't care if that's what she's doing, but that's not true. You yourself, I mean, this, and this wasn't numbers manipulation. Your life changed because, uh, Tina Turner died

before your album came out. Yeah, I would have had, you were not able to get the number one R&B album, which you would have had, had Tina Turner not died and people streamed her music and she beat you. Yeah. So, granted Taylor's going number one anyway, but as far as just period on the overall scale of large artists manipulating things and releasing deluxe's, deluxe's, deluxe is where their album now keeps going back up to number one, which may keep somebody else from getting a number one on a country chart or R&B chart or a Billboard 200. So that does affect other people. I'm saying from the fan side. Like that's just become a stand, like it doesn't affect anyone's life if Taylor Swift is manipulating. Now, yeah, if I'm an artist and in my

contract with a major, I get a bump on in advance because if I hit a number one or stipulations like that, yeah, I'm gonna be fucking pissed. I mean, I wasn't mad at Tina Turner, but but it would have been nice to say, hey, I had number one. But again, it also didn't affect anything about that album. Like the album got the same amount of strings that it would have had it been. Yeah, of course. I think I ended up number three. It was two Tina Turner. Oh, yeah, two Tina Turner. Yeah. I got a number three when I should have had number one. But I mean, yeah, I wasn't really mad at that. But I also am independent.

Like, there's certain milestones that if I hit, doesn't affect what my deal will be. Yeah. But to the fans that talk about all this shit, like, these numbers don't affect any of you. Yeah. Like, I know it's cool. Like, if you're a barb to be like, I'm happy I can say Nikki has a number one. But if Nikki has a number two, pause, the album is still going to be the exact same to the consumer. Yeah.

Like, nothing is going to change because of the numbers. But Russ's point is why the fuck would you be mad at an artist that is utilizing their fan base? If y'all want to buy a bunch of shit, do it. To play devil's advocate, because I agree with Russ, but to play devil's advocate just to have a conversation, if the fan base is young kids, which Taylor does have a lot of in her fan base, then you could say that you're manipulating a younger fan base to continue to spend money on your stuff. Then I'm going to get on my camera on Bill O'Reilly thing. that's the parents fault.

If Amara comes and says, I want three versions of the same Taylor Swift album, Amara, you're getting one. Yeah. You're getting one of them. Now, I think there's a lot of Swifties that are adults that have great jobs and however they want to fucking spend their money

as long as not harming anyone. Who are we to judge anyone for that? We all buy weird shit. I was just talking about buying pussy. But I mean, but me and you have had, we had an... Call them pussy weird shit is hilarious. Me and you had a disagreement

that we ended up cutting out of an episode as far as when I said you should start a Patreon, a personal Patreon. And then we talked about our own Patreon that we have as far as like, and you were like, well, I feel bad having fans pay for things. And I said, and I said the exact same thing to you where I said, that's their fucking choice to spend their money. You're not holding a gun to their head. And you're like, I feel like I'm asking them for money. And it's like, no, you're providing something. And either they find it valuable or not valuable. And it's up to them to spend their money on it. Yeah. I mean, I guess I just view the consumer thing as what

their like monthly overhead is and like what we're asking like all right this month we're asking someone to pay for $20 tier uh we're releasing merch at this price oh we also have live tickets on sale like i think about those types of things because i do care about our listeners like to just add more shit yeah but that's what you're you weren't wrong in anything you were saying it was like just more of a morality thing of like damn i like i don't do i want to ask them to spend another $10 like i know i should be and that's what you have morals yeah That's what the people are saying about Taylor Swift. Okay, but here.

It says she has no morals? No. They're saying that she's not considering the consumer. Or you're just doing what most celebrities or stars do. People who are trying to find a way to, yeah, you're trying to find a way to, you can't please everybody, but you want to try to please as many as you can. So maybe you can't get this album. Maybe you can't get this merch.

Maybe you can't go to this live show, but somebody can't. Somebody can go to this live show. Yeah. Somebody can get them. Yeah, you get different options of shit. Different options of things that you can buy and support your artists or, you know, whoever it is. I think you're both right.

That you're supporting, but I don't think it's something that should be frowned upon. Now, I do get where that can kind of trip the numbers and things like that, but somebody like Taylor Swift, that doesn't. She's Taylor Swift, bro. The numbers are going to be the numbers, no matter if she has one version of her album or 17 versions of her albums, the numbers are going to be incredible. Like, that's just what it is. Yeah.

And back to another. conversation we had when we were talking about like the billboard change like the bundling rules with after what like Travis was doing and that entire thing I never saw anything wrong with that either I understand why Nikki was complaining about it because she felt like she should have had the number one what I get that mm-hmm but I know artists up to Taylor Swift are getting fucked they're getting manipulated by a label you have to find other strategies to manipulate a system that's manipulating you so yeah of course I'm going to try to bundle something Of course I'm gonna try to sell different versions of this.

I'm getting fucked over here anyways. This system is not even designed to be an artist friendly system. I have to find new ways to do the shit. To make, not to say Taylor Swift needs more money, but just in general for any artists. It's not, it's tricking a system that's tricking the artist. That's why I was never mad when people did bundles. Travis, hell you, you're fucking great designer with your merch.

You're a great artist, like, yeah, work the system that's trying to work y'all already. I've never mad at that type of shit. No, it can't be mad at that. So that's why I even love that, like, people care about vinyl's again, just because I know that's going to help so many artists because people will stream their music, but also want to buy a collectible of the same shit. Like, to me, that's cool for an artist.

It's part of being a consumer, part of being a fan of the creator the artist. Again, I get how some people like to have that argument about what it does for the numbers and things like that, and they feel like the artist is trying to play the numbers game. And, again, even if that is what the artist is trying to do, what is the artist is trying to do, what is the problem? You're in the music business. You're in the business of selling music, selling product. So, I mean, it is what it is.

And let's not act like fans and consumers aren't like, I mean, at least the nerdyer ones, like myself, aren't like collectors. Like, if I'm a hardcore Taylor Swift fan, you mean you're not? Of course. Of course, I'm a Swiss. Okay. Just checking. I'm part of the six million sales.

Yeah, you're about to get your Swiftie car revoked real quick. If I'm a hardcore Taylor Swift fan and I collect shit, and I'm like in devile, yeah, I'll buy three different color versions because like I like to collect things. Mm-hmm. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. No. Now, if you're manipulating shit with whether it be bots or behind the scenes, like with other, that, that's a whole separate conversation. But direct to consumer with a product, you know what wrong with that shit?

Not at all. Sell it all if they'll buy it. A win is a win. A win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions.

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show, isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode. where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHeart Podcasts presents soccer moms.

So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend Janet. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips, wider. This is a podcast.

We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. With all the snacks and drinks. Sidebar. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a bogo. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white collar or something here? Just hit it.

Oh, what are y'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a rap album? Oh, I would. Come on. Can you imagine. I would buy it. Cut through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake.

That sounds delicious. Oh, you're lucky. I'm not a drug addict. You're lucky I'm not an alcoholic. You're lucky I'm not a killer. I love this team and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Why is everyone obsessed with romance right now? Like everyone? Your co-worker who, quote unquote, doesn't read, is reading romance. Your mom, book talk, the entire internet. I'm Sanjana Basker. I'm Tyler McCall. And this is Radio 831, a romance podcast. The books, the tropes, the adaptations, the drama, the discourse.

And what all of it says about how we actually love, yearn, and obsess. We're going to Weathering Heights, which, for the record, is not a romance novel. And yet it has haunted the romance genre for 200 years. We're getting into dark romance, age gaps, certain Russian hockey players. And sentient objects.

In love, which is a thing. That's the kind of conversation we're having every episode. Listen to the Radio 831 podcast starting on May 7th on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre,

as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? But today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything. But at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food.

They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcast. It's interesting too that like rappers kind of get the rap, no pun intended, that they're the ones that are standoffish or won't work with each other.

R&B artists are that times 10. Like if you go with the Coles, Kendrick's, Drake, Big Sean, Waleh, like that class, they've all collaborated with each other. Now if you would go with your class, which I'm, you, Frank, weekend, party next door. Like, R&B people, even with their graduating class, never really fuck with each other like that. It's a trip. It's a trip.

I was just having this conversation too. We were talking about the difference in support. Also because I can hear that class in the music. And it's like I can look at it and be like, damn, like, I did my thing. We did our thing. Like it's in. Like I can hear how my approach is like really actually kind of affected. And it's such a, it's a dope thing to see.

and to see everyone else, you know, see everyone else's influence and the shaping of the sound. I mean, we started alternative R&B. There was no category for that. You know, it was like, we did that. Yeah, there was no, we were the ones. Right.

It was, and it is a shame to kind of, to think that we actually never really did. And I don't know what that's about. I think about historically, you know, when soul music was in Detroit, when it was Philly or Detroit, there was a hub of of of in a scene yeah where writers and artists were working together stevie's all over all the motel right yeah you know what i mean Marvin gay was in a you know he was in a band he was

he was they were all working together um traveled together traveled together on tours together i still don't have an answer for why it doesn't happen i mean i think with a lot of them they had similar producers in common right so they would be in sessions exactly everyone was kind of running through the same system where that's different now. And I think rappers also, it's a bit easier if we both walk into a studio and agree on a beat. Something can easily come out of that where I feel like some of the greater R&B artists are so in tune with their production. Right. Like they are producers as well. That can get weird. Like if you and Frank walk into a studio, you're both going to have different directions as far as the production goes.

The approach or the sonic or the sonic. Whereas, you know, a loop. beat with a fucking soul sample. Cole and Wiley would be like, this is great, let's go. Yeah, like, banger. I agree. It's going to go crazy. So I think maybe that's where it could derive from, just on the production side,

because everyone's so hands-on. Especially before, too, we're talking about songwriters. Yeah, and crafters, like, I write and produce. Like, I produced it. A real music. I wrote that song. You know what I mean?

I wrote sure thing. and they're not it's not a verse also it's also the approach like a crazy verse from an emcee is gonna be like can kill the whole song yeah it's like man like let me think like Nikki Minaj verse on

Monster like her verse won the song you know what I'm saying two of the greatest rappers of all time on that but it's like a verse can go crazy for an MC but for singing yeah for I don't know how you know

I think it can stick. I think now it's evolved where we could approach it that way. And I think it'd be interesting to explore it like that. But I know in the past it was about we're singer-songwriters, you know, and we're producers. So it was about the song. It was the whole thing. And artists. So I wonder if there's something interesting there though.

You know, it's like, what if we just approach it as verses? Right. You know? Have you ever had to meet any of your idols or people that you looked up to and were, like, disappointed? And like heartbroken, like, oh, this person is not really a good person or like not what I thought it would be. Definitely ones where I wish we would have got on. Like we could have found some like, okay, I fuck with you like on the personal. Who did I not really?

You know what? Honestly, I would almost say I would wager that more it was like me. That it was me. I was like, oh, am I the problem? I'm the widow. This was the eight years of disappearing. We had to learn this thing. I needed to go do it so.

I was the problem. I am the drama. I am the drama. I'm here to tell you guys. So what was the scenario that you felt that way? He looked back like, you know what, damn. Like, I'll fuck that up. Yeah.

No, no, I'll say this. I'll say this. This is one I, like, I wish it would. And it wasn't because anyone was, was, when we were doing, when I was doing when I was doing Clodoscope Dream, I was here at, um, at Platinum Sound. I was over there for a long time when Platinum Sound was over in Midtown. Shout out to Jerry Wonder. Legendary.

Man, legendary story. Yeah. I mean, what happened in that studio in terms of just like the amount of fun and the songs and all that was incredible. And I was, we had momentum and Adorn was having a moment. And we were finishing that album.

I got to work with Farrell finally. And Farrell came and he spent some days with me. and I still look at those sessions and I'm like man I really wish we would have found one what we did doesn't fit the album it doesn't like it would have never worked on kaleidoscope dream and I'm I'm clear about that but also like I just wish I would have locked in with him more

because he's a hero of mine you know and and I always like just like damn I wish like was it me like was I just like to and I was really adamant too I was like I knew what I wanted yeah and I was um really sure yeah I was like I mean I don't think it's a bad thing because yeah I'm about it has to be commendable and respectable especially from Farrell to see a young artist

so fixed on who they are and what they want and the sound that they want to create I know what you mean though because it's like this is Farrell it's big yeah yeah but I will say this though he did he had I mean look he's a visionary um and he came in and we cut this record that is a banger. I can't, I can't, like, the hard drive that has the session on,

and it's, like, it's somewhere and, like, in stores somewhere, but, but it, it's very much feels like a Prince record, but if I were, if I, but me still, you know, but he came in with such a vision, and I don't think I was ready for that. I was, like, how to clear, I had a clear different vision. And I've seen in subsequent interviews of his, They've asked some questions like, I mean, you could tell I've thought about this. I've really thought about this. Yeah, this has been haunting you.

Oh, bro, it's been on my bed. I'm like, man, like, why didn't we? I know it was all that. Like, damn, didn't it. If Kaladisko Dreams wasn't a classic, I'd say this should keep you up at night. But you got it right with Kalatislop Dream. You got it right. But would that have worked maybe more on Wild Heart?

Because, I mean, that was kind of the stereotypical fan perspective of like, all right, is he about to do his Prince thing. He's going. Yeah, he's going. No, no. I think on the contrary, this was, this, I don't even know

where this record would have fit. But I do think it would have probably, at the time it probably would have hit. I think he was right. Yeah. And I think based on what fans wanted, what's known about me and my taste and who I'm drawing from,

my inspirations and whatnot, it would have made a lot of sense and the record was a great record. but I just wanted to go a different direction. And he spoke about interviews as well? No, no, no. He's talked about other situations where he's been in a room and he's like, you know, not everybody's ready to hear my vision.

And the ones that do have listened, you know, he's like more often than not. You know, have had great moments with him. And he didn't. He's talking about you. Yeah, you were watching YouTube in your kitchen like, that's about me. This is about me. And even if it's not going to feel like that, like that's about me, definitely. Yeah, no, no, he definitely wasn't.

And I think it might have been an interview before I even, before I worked with him. But, um, but, um, but I think he was, like, referring to, like, maybe Justin or something at the time. And he's like, you know, not every time I go in and, and they're ready to hear what I, what I'm seeing. Um, but when they trust me to just do the things, like, that's where, that's how we get this and that. And I think he was talking about Justin and whatnot. he might have mentioned Kendrick or something in it, but, but it's one of those ones where it wasn't either of us. It just didn't happen.

And I always look at it and I'm like, fuck man, I wish it would happen. Again, I think that speaks more to greatness and your vision. Like, for example, we definitely. We were talking when J.I.D. dropped his record with Eminem and was like, this isn't on the album. And it made me go, oh, this J.I.D. album has to be great that he's so stuck on his vision. Yeah. M&M is not what I'm trying to do with a project.

It made me more excited about it. Valid. Because to just leave off an M&M verse, oh, your album is like, right, you have a vision. The same way of like, damn, am I really about to just leave a Farrell session and be like, nah? The fuck. We did a couple other ones, and I've been meaning to hit him because he was telling me earlier that I should be leaning into just being Latino.

And, like, he's like, bro, who can do it? He was definitely like, he was coaching. You know, he was like, and I wasn't in the place at the time. Also, I didn't feel like I had done the work to feel doing music in Spanish. Felt organic. It was too big of a leap at the time. But he's like, he's like a whole, I mean, maybe 10 years actually. Because after my sessions for Collodoscope Dream, we worked in like Nashville during like Bonnaro or some shit like that.

And he was like, bro, you gotta get on your Latin shit hard. And he cooked up some like, you know, those rhythms. And I just wasn't ready for it. Yeah. But then fast forward eight years later, on this album, Kyle, it's like, I'm definitely in my, yeah, yeah, I'm in it. And I've been waiting for the time when I see him and I'm like, you were right, bro, I just wasn't ready. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because this album definitely.

got no 100 you still have that loaded up in your mpc of the shit you cooked up in that's right i'm like i'm good to go now it's time me girls gonna tear their storage up like i gotta find this fucking hard drive and we're gonna get it to that we're gonna get into the snitches and the rats and everybody else what happened what happened oh you just open your phone i've seen you guys send something to the group chat about the NBA but i don't know i'm just the girl i don't know what's going on the NBA Hey, sir, no bets allowed. It's about to be some shit. No bets allowed.

No bets allowed. I'm telling you. Well, I always, listen, bro, when they made gambling legal and they even started having, like, you know, the logos with the logos on, like, uniforms and, you know, if you're watching the game of TV, they even have it where they could put the logo on the court. That's not really on the court. Only people on TV can see. They started doing shit like that. You got to know that the guys behind these things. are in business together. You have to, which means now the people that are a part of it,

they're going to be approachable conversations and opportunities to make a little extra money on the side. If you're a coach, if you're a player, if you can make an extra $6, $7 million that nobody knows about, you're probably going to take that opportunity. For sure. And lo and behold, today we open our phone. But this is just a trickle now. Because you remember Gilbert Arenas was arrested a few months ago by the FBI for running illegal poker games, things like that. Now, I'm not calling Gilbert a snitch, but he did, he did say out his mouth, he didn't snitch yet, but I will. Those were Gilbert words. If I'm, Josh, maybe you can pull it up. I believe verbatim. He said, I didn't snitch yet. I didn't cooperate, but I will.

So now today we have Damon Jones being arrested. We have Chaunty Billups being arrested. We have Terry Rosea, whose situation is separate, but it's still a gambling. arrest as well. No, man. Gilbert was at those court steps smiling ear to ear when he left his indictment. Yeah, because Gilbert is probably like, listen, I'm not the big fish. I don't know what y'all want here. Y'all want

the big guy. That's not me. Yeah, I was gambling. I was running poker games. You know, it wasn't, I owned the house, but you know, and this is what Gilbert said. He won't be worried. Good luck in court. I'm pretty sure I ain't going to be there when it's starting to go, because, you know, it's, yeah, I'm snitching. Now, just Gilbert's words. They had said this,

this investigation has been going on for quite some time. Yeah, August Gilbert got arrested. Someone was arrested. It was more investigation. He put it on itself. He said, I'm not going to be there. Pull it up again, Josh.

I don't want to misquote the great Gilbert arenas. He said, I'm not going to be there when it starts going, when it's starting to go, because I'm snitching. That's what he said. I'm pretty sure I ain't going to be there

when it's starting to go. It's going, Rory. We got the, we got the text, the messages today. Because, yeah, I'm snitching. You can see that at the nine minute, 22nd mark if you want. I am not calling Gilbert Arena's a snitch. Gilbert Arena said himself that he is snitching. Yes.

There you go. Do you think that's why the FBI called this Operation Nothing But Net? If you ever seen Gilbert shot, have you ever seen Gilbert shoot the ball? Pure shooter. Barely touched the rim. Nothing but that. Operation Nothing but. net has commenced and you niggas is going to jail.

Adam Silver, I'm pretty sure they're going to be knocking on your door soon. Fam. Of course, the one year that it might be the next turn to finally go all the way, I think we're going to get a lockout, not by the players, by the FBI in a month. Like, this could get really, really bad for that game. Oh, it's going to give it. So current NBA player, current and former NBA players and coaches, Chauncey Phillips, Terry Rose, and Damien Jones have been arrested.

this was an illegal gambling and sports rigging operation that spanned years. So this ain't something that they just started investigating and, you know, they've been looking at this. Gilbert just connected the dots. Well, he was the first chip that they grabbed that we know of. That was the public figure that we would know. Years across 11 states in total, 30 individuals have been arrested, 13 mafia members. The case involves Lacostrae, Nostra.

Chargers include illegal gambling, wire fraud, and extortion. There are two separate indictments. The defendants leveraged their connections to place prop bets based on confidential insider information went in tens of thousands of dollars per bet. There was another article, and it wasn't like the greatest source, but one of the Damon Jones, they say in the paperwork, was talking about LeBron's injury. Like, LeBron is not that LeBron did anything wrong, but apparently he's in the paperwork. work that Damon Jones was just letting

letting the mob know about fucking LeBron's ankle. Yeah, that's inside information. It's, yeah, shame points is all this shit. And then you go, the FBI says the NBA player, Terry Rozier, told the defendants that he was going to leave a game early on March 23, 23, with an injury. The defendants then placed more than 200,000 of wages on the unders for his prop bets with Rosea leaving the game after nine minutes.

Those bets paid out tens of thousands of dollars in profits, and their defendants and Roseanne. he accounted the money at his house. Do. This is a fucking movie. Where is Scorsesey at? Scorsese is fucking having a ball reading all of this. Get the red camera Scorsese because this is a movie.

Charlotte Hornets, Trailblazers, Lakers, and Raptors are all involved with it. I mean, did you see the compilation of Terry throwing games? Listen, man, I'm not trying to start nothing, but I will say, the other day during the Lakers game, LeBron Lerner, very, very, I don't know, he had this look on his face the whole time on the bench. He wasn't even looking at the game. He was looking straight into the crowd. At the bananas.

Yeah. Like, I don't know, man. I think that, you know, a lot of players know what's happening, what's going on behind the scenes. And we joking and having last worry, but this is going to get, I mean, it already is, but this is going to get very serious. Oh, yeah. No, this is, everyone's fucked. Yeah.

This is going to get serious. And, I mean, we was joking about the Gilbert thing. but if you don't think Chaunty Billups and the rest of them are going to have the same mentality. Like, these aren't like street guys that have a code of, like, they're going to tell everything. This is going to continue to get worse. Yeah. More names going to come out. But, I mean, shit, down to fuck the point, shaven.

Chaunty Billups was involved with the mob with the shuffling machines that read cards in the deck, and then they relayed the information to an off-site operator that they called the quarterback, then sent the information to someone at the table. This is why I never, like, fucked with gambling spots like that. Like, the underground gambling spot. Like, in the house? Like, there's no way this is not rigged somehow. Already at the casino, you're fucked.

But there's no regulation here. I think I trust the mob. This is interesting because this is, all right, this is the NBA we're talking about. I feel like it's easier to kind of throw games in other sports, like, say baseball. Like, it's easier for me as a hitter to go up there and just keep whiffing that fucking, like, bad pitches. Yeah. Like, on the basketball court, like, if I'm just turning that shit over, dribbling that shit off my foot, like, it's like, all right, bro. Like, what the fuck is he doing?

And they pulled up Rose's highlights or what they think one game that he was throwing. That was the most obvious shit. That was the most, that's what I'm saying. In basketball, it's a little more noticeable. In baseball, if I'm a hitter and I'm just like, you know, I'm going to go 0 for four tonight. that's hard for y'all to pick up on i could just be up there just swinging that shit and it's like well i'm just having the off night i'm just not hitting the ball look at rosier he throwing that shit look at this watch this watch this one is crazy this is the one

he starts running back before he even threw the pass yeah damn you're throwing that too bro yo i'm crying bad he was so happy when that shit went look at this that pass was crazy but i feel like you could at least purposely miss a lot of shots and it wouldn't look that crazy this is just blatant You know, that thing is just up here He's out there Take me through there, take me through there That he can play a 2K He owed a banana so much money

He like man, fuck this basketball The hilarious part was the Come on The announcers were like Who rough night for Terry And he told him like this is the most obvious thing ever Yeah this is going to get bad Obviously the FBI still investigating

We just got to wait and see who else man I think more more players are going to be called into that room and more players are going to cooperate. Yeah. But this is going to get bad. Again, this doesn't surprise me. Once gambling became legal, I mean, one of the first things I thought was, all right, so now, you know, it's just more opportunity for players to throw games, be involved in it.

You know, me and my fridge's joke all the time. Like, I got a lot of friends that played in NBA. They're like, yo, why don't you just call him and tell him not to get six rebounds tonight? I'm like, yo, y'all are joking, but that's how easy. simple it really is. Yeah. Like, yo, bro, listen, man, just don't get six rebounds tonight. You can do everything else.

Don't grab six boards. I'm going to get this quick 10, 20K. We good. This is the result of things like that. Yeah. And, you know, unfortunately, now a lot of players are going to have to answer to this. A lot of, you know, coaches, GMs, I'm sure it's going to be. It's going to be a lot of people, like, that we start seeing getting arrested and being questioned behind this whole thing.

I think this is just the start of it. I mean, but even with that, like, I assume how they, I'm just guessing how they even got involved with the mob was they had some type of gambling debt with them. Because to your point, why wouldn't, because gambling's legal now, why wouldn't you just go off the parlays that you could easily control rather than fucking with the mob to do this shit? Yeah. Yeah. Like that, that to me is the craziest part. Like, they must have been so deep in debt that they were doing it this way. Because we all assume that there's plenty of players that do exactly what you just said.

but it's through legal, even though that's a legal, legal gambling off those parlays. But this, like, how you even get involved with this way if you're Chauncey Billups? As a coach, you know, you take a guy out if you see he's approaching. No, I'm saying, to even get in, in bed with or owe people this type of stuff. Like throwing games because you owe this amount of money. Some underground gambling spots, man. Y'all gambling at the house? You know, I might have lost a million.

I'm like, shit, I need some of that back. All right, well, tomorrow go out there and don't let him, don't let your point guard score 20 tomorrow, pull him out the game. It's that simple. It starts going trickling into that, and now you're in bed with them. Now it's like, all right, now you're part of it. Yeah. And here comes the FBI investigation years later.

You thinking it was just over with it was just that one time. Nah, man, all of this is going to be uncovered. So that's what I'm saying, this is something that I think is going to, a lot of players, I was, I'm not going to lie, Seeing Chaunty Billups involved with this kind of like, I was surprised to see his name. Yeah. He wasn't somebody I expected to be involved at all, but here we are. Yeah.

There's a lot of NBA players stepping on their phones and erasing their eyeclubs. Step on their phones is funny as fuck. We got to wait to see what else Gilbert, you know, what other verses Gilbert laid out. Gilbert the Bull. I mean, Gilbert might be in the booth right now, you know, giving them a 16, let them know what happened was really going on. Listen, again, this is Gilbert saying he would do this. I'm not putting this on Gilbert arenas. He said he would snitch, not me.

I mean, what was the, can we look up the referee that was caught? Tim, Tim Donnie. If I remember correctly, didn't he, let's see what he's talking about today. Didn't he say in an interview that he believed every single ref was involved with some form of gambling or point shaving decisions? Every ref in the NBA. And we just skipped up.

over that? Listen, man. Every ref in the NBA, which is, I mean, that's kind of nuts, but I'm sure it's a large majority. No, he was straight up saying that they, they're all involved. Like, he's not the only one here. Yeah, he's not, he's definitely not the only one. You can't be the only one.

In a, in a league that big with that many games on however many nights, you're not the only one, bro. Yeah. There's no way. You're definitely not the only one. No, he Steve Javry Look at they got a picture of Steve Javier

But that's not But listen man We go back to You got players like Chris Paul Who say every time Steve Javier He refed one of his games Scott Fawster

I'm sorry Scott Foster I didn't put that on Steve Javry Scott Foster Chris Paul said that He said yo every time he rests one of my games It's like I get thrown out I get this I get that Yeah

So you got it sounds crazy but even things like that affect a bet. A player getting ejected, picking up two quick technical files, picking up quicking up quick personal files, got to sit out the whole first half. Like we sit here and we just watch games and thinking like, yo, the ref just made a bad call. Okay, but why did he make that bad call?

That could be a loaded call. It could be, that could be a million-dollar bad call he just made. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? We don't think about it like that, but essentially that's exactly what all of this is going to end up showing us, like, little things like that that kind of dictate the game and affect the game in whatever way.

While it looks little to us, a turnover doesn't look that bad to us in the third quarter. Yeah, but at the end of the night, somebody had a bet placed on that and over and under, and the score and the money line and things like, all of those little things add up to a bigger picture, and this is part of the bigger picture. Maul, I know you're thinking about upgrading to an all-new iPhone 17 Pro designed to be the best and most powerful iPhone ever. You're my thoughts again. Yeah, listen, man.

Weeks you've been thinking about this. Whatever, are you also thinking about the traffic on the way there? I think about that all the time, Ro. Yes, you and traffic has always been anything. As a matter of fact, that's one of your best lives. Absolutely. Well, good news, Maul. When you order a new phone online with Boost Mobile to send an expert right to our office,

they'll set up your whole iPhone 17 with Boost Mobile with. in minutes, no hassle whatsoever. Visit boostmobile.com to get started. Delivery available for select devices purchased at boostmobile.com. Terms apply. And I mean, how far does the rabbit hole go with the gambling thing? Because outside of like the regular sports parlay stuff and that they got sites that say how many times Taylor Swift is going to be shown in the booth at a Kansas City Chiefs game.

Like there's an over under for that. And at what point if you are the cameraman at an NFL game, Man, listen. When the producers sees all the screens and we're just like, one more time. Man, listen.

Was it? All right, six times? Listen, we joking and talking shit. Two more in the second quarter. Listen, we're joking and talking shit. But that's real. That's real. Because they come up with the craziest

fucking things on those sites. That's real. As far as that goes. But something like that, I'm not, listen, that doesn't affect the game on the field. So something like that is like, you know, that's just like a cameraman, you know, trying to just make a little

whatever. On field, anything that interrupts the game or disturbs the game, like the integrity of the game, back to your question of should you be kicked out of the Hall of Fame if you're in? I think so. I think if you've done anything to jeopardize the integrity of the sport, to jeopardize the outcome of any game that, whether you were involved in it or not, just the sport, I think that that is something to look at and be like, that might get you kicked out of the Hall of Fame. I agree with you, but I do feel like Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame because he bet on himself. Like he wasn't betting against the Reds where he could really jeopardize. He was confident his team was like putting this down.

So to me, that's fine if you want to bet on yourself. I think that should be cool, but against yourself. But bet on yourself to perform or underperform? Well, Pete Rose bet on the Reds to win. Okay, yeah. Which to me is cool. I mean, I get it. You can't have a gray area there.

If you gamble, you gamble. You out. I get that. But with gambling being legal now and those rules being a little gray, I think only if you bet to affect the game negatively. Like if you're throwing a game, yeah, get the fuck out of the whole thing. But where do you draw the line with the steroid thing? Because I think Barry Bond should be in there.

To me, that's affecting the game. Yeah, no, it is. But it's still, you. You still should be in the whole thing. I don't think there should be an asterisk there. But it has to be an asterisk because the playing field is not even. If I'm on steroids and my opponents aren't, I already have an advantage. So that's where it kind of gets tricky because it's like, all, if we can all take steroids, then cool.

Because it evens the field. But now when you get in the field and the territory of, okay, the playing field is, I have an advantage over all of my opponents. That's cheating. Yeah, but I think everyone was taking steroids at that time. I don't know. I'm not going to say everybody, but I do think a lot of people were. Yeah, and I only bring up that point to this gambling shit,

because if we end up finding out that for the past 20 years, every player's been involved, then I don't think anyone should be kicked out the whole thing. Everyone was doing it. That was the game at that time. I know one thing. They better not pull Michael Jeffrey Jordan and none of them fucking investigations. I don't want to hit his shit about.

about Mike. Don't tell me Mike was... Mike doesn't... Everyone knows Mike doesn't gamble. Huh? He didn't serve... When he served his time for Pete? In AAA baseball. He had...

He did six months with the White Sox. Mike was not gambling on no fucking NBA game. Who he's gambling to win? That's all the fuck he did. This thing. Everyone knows that... That's all he did. It was win.

Everyone knows that Mike is a degenerate gambler. But Mike is also the biggest competitor of all time. Mike would never ever bet against himself. No. So I think Mike bet... I think Mike bet on himself for sure. There's no way he did not put money down on his own games. For sure.

I don't think so, man. I think he's such a big, that would have came out. We would have been found out about that. Yeah. That, why do you think he changed his number? No, no, no, no. That was a conspiracy. I'm talking about it would have come out as a fact that he bet on Bulls games already by now.

He's been retired for almost 30 years. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast,

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