New Rory & MAL - Best of Rory & Mal: Week of 4/14

Episode Date: April 20, 2025

Introducing "Best of Rory & Mal"! Every Sunday, we will drop the best of the week on our feed. Catch up on what you might have missed, re-live the best debates, or replay the funniest moments from the pod. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they failed. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down.

Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting droop. Pinky has financial issues. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise, the drama, the alliances, M&T, everybody's talking about. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King

on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The volume. Rammies. You? I'm all. I'm Rory, and we are star. for the first time, the best of the week, new Rory and Maw. Because they need more, Rory and Moll.

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This is only for the best for the best. Please, drop that beat. No. So, yeah, Carrie Hilsen was on the breakfast club, and of course they brought up the infamous Carrie Hilsson, Beyonce, dis. But that's been like kind of a myth that's never really been addressed

for over a decade, I feel like now. The Turned Me On Remix, where Carrie Hilsen had the bars, because you turn to me off, your vision, cloudy, if you think that you're the best, you can dance, you can sing, but she need to move it to the left, to the left.

coincidence right i think so i think the fuck not you trick-ass bitch i think they were overthinking those bars that's how you feel about carrie no that's a that's a that's a meme sorry i think the fuck not you trick-ass bitch is a meme not carry sorry um but carrie elseen said it's a regret oh is it carry is it did you regret that i'm not going to let y'all do that because yes that was a big pivot in her career i love carrie i thought it was i thought i mean naturally you know I understand how fan bases turned and you know, anybody going at, you know, Beyonce, this is how it probably would turn out for you,

especially if you're an artist. Well, you couldn't really clock fan bases at that time. It was not everything was on the internet. So the myth really became that, like, Beyonce had some, like, New Orleans Creole voodoo that just stopped her career at that time. That's what the fans think. But I'm sure there was some stuff behind the scenes.

Like, let's not act like artists don't do that when they have power to shut certain shit down. I can promise you Beyonce didn't have anything shut down for career. Oh, I don't think Beyonce did either, but I'm not saying people close to Beyonce didn't. I mean, I don't know. I think people put too much into that. Publicists used to have a lot of power.

Let's not act like back in the day publicists were not right next to the fucking CEO of the label as far as who could push what button. I could see a publicist doing that shit. All right, you want to play? As far as pretty, that's it with anything. No, when you have, when you're as successful as Beyonce was, in 2009 and I would have to, Josh, can you look up what of Beyonce's was out during 2009? If you say, oh, if you, if the team goes, oh, if you work with this person, I won't work

with this person when it comes to, I mean, we won't work with you anymore, whether it comes to producers, songwriters, anybody like, yeah, just are slowing up. A lot of those reference tracks and all those ideas you were being sent in the fucking boatload of CDs slows up a little bit. Oh, that was single ladies time. Clipped. Hang it up flat screen. Let's not act like Carrie Olson was not at least a big factor at that time.

No, Carrie Houston was here. And first of all, that record did work outside of the disc record. The remix didn't even, like, nobody really paid attention to the remix, though. The Turn of Me On regular song was the big one. And everyone was remixing it. That was one of the remixes that I think stood out. And let's not act like Carrie wasn't with Pol de Don at the time. It was one of the biggest producers in rap, R&B, and pop, who I do not think gets his flowers.

He needs to be up there. I wish he did a verse. so people like could realize what his catalog is like. Bolodon was one of the best of that era. So she went on to say, but that's not the way people would think because that's a song I actually didn't write. Those are not my words.

If you weren't around for that era, Esther Dean, who's one of the greatest writers of our generation, was writing a lot of the hits at that time, especially with Polo, and she wrote a lot of stuff for Carrie. So she was suggesting everyone was mad at me, but I didn't write it. Carrie, if it worked, would you be saying this? like that kind of be my

That's my only issue with Carrie here If that would have worked And like carry became bigger As a result of that I record Yeah if it worked The way we saw a 50 disc jai And it was like it went crazy Would 50 come be like

Not even right wankster That was someone else No it didn't work So now you're going back To a regular thing Within pop music Esther was writing for everyone at that time You recorded it

Yeah Probably a bunch of takes Found the one you liked The best with the pitch I understand That you were being pressured by the producer and your team and all that. But you have the final say, even with the pressure, which I get, you still have the final say.

I appreciate that you're coming back and saying, yo, I regret that. I'm fine with you saying. You had pressure from your team. But don't be like, oh, it wasn't even me. I didn't even write it. Who saying it? Yeah, but again, I like, you know, the way you're posing the question, if it worked, would she be saying this?

She would need to be saying if it worked. If someone brought that up, let's say in this hypothetical, we're not even going to go with that it destroyed Beyonce's career because that's a joke even in a hypothetical. But let's say it made Carrie bigger and she was doing her legacy tour shit, sat with Charlemagne and he was like, yo, that time when you diss Beyonce, that was kind of

like launched you to the next level. Do you think she would have went, what's crazy as I didn't even write that? No, she'd be like, yeah, that time was nuts. I was a little nervous. Like we were dissing someone that was so big. She would have went that route. Of course.

I think she would have still said she regretted it though because whether it worked for her or destroyed her career, it was lean. Because Beyonce hadn't did anything to her. Yeah, as a woman, as a person, I think you grow, yeah, as a person you grow and you mature, you older, you look back at a lot of shit. Like that was so unnecessary. Like, yes, I mean, I'm not saying she would have said, you know, I didn't write it and all of that. But I'm sure she would have still, you know, what, 15 years later, 16 years later, something like that.

I don't think she would still be standing on that bar. Like, yeah, I said it. Like, that would just be absolutely crazy for to do that. Yeah. And I mean, a lot of stuff she put on polo, like, I don't know if this is true. My album was an out yet, so it was like, you're not coming out if you didn't do this. I made that mistake, which, again, maybe this did happen behind closed doors. But I also don't think a producer like Poles of Don that already had so much results was like,

you have to dis Beyonce or we're not putting you out. Someone had the talent of Carrie Hilsen and had record, like, I find that a little odd too. But then Esardine had came out and went on IG and said, you know, I'm not going to read the entire thing. But more or less that she didn't feel great about it either because, you know, it's not against women empowerment and sticking together. But she said she wrote like four or five verses to that. Submitted all of them. Wasn't even there.

And that's the one they picked. So like, what do you want for me? I gave you a bunch of different versions. That's the one you picked. Then Kerry Hilsen replied and said, don't say co-wrote. Everything on there except for three lines that weren't even part of the disc I wrote. You wrote the entire thing.

So what is Esther Dean supposed to say? It's still co-written. Yeah, but I've never seen someone trying to take publishing away from themselves, Carrie. Yeah, but all of this shit is like, I get it. People still talking about. All right, so give her all the pub.

It's Beyonce. I get it, but it's been 15, 60 years, man. Like, do people even really care about this shit still? Carrie cares. It's still brought up in a niche community of music lovers. Every time Carrie Wilson opens her mouth, Kerry Wilson, Carrie Hilson. I'm about saying, who the fuck is Perry Wilson?

I'm thinking about Sierra, I'm sorry. Anytime Carrie Hilsen opens her mouth, people are reminded like, damn, that voodoo really worked every single time. It's always bought up. every single time she's in any interview comments, everything. So she knows, she knows it's a big thing. It sucks because it would have a nice, it would have been nice to see her have a career,

like a, she had a career, but to have like a longer career. But then again, who's to say if she didn't, this Beyonce, that she wouldn't have went away anyway? We always say that. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Like people, even when people, and this is not, no, I don't even, actually, I'm not even going to say that. But there are people that have died that people are like, oh, she would have been the biggest thing. And it's like, you don't know that. We've had so many pop girls that were huge.

and then we never heard from him again. Yeah, people love doing that though. Yo, so-and-so didn't die. This person wouldn't the bloke. It's like, fam, that's a lot of dudes that's still alive from the era that ain't shit. Ain't shit. And they was that guy. A lot of trash music, trash albums, trash.

It's like, so we're not going to just make it seem like that person would have been on top or this. It's like, I hate when people do that. That's just like a talk because you can't prove it because the person's no longer here, unfortunately. But, I mean, Carrie had knock you down with Neo and Kanye. Like, I thought that record was. No, she hasn't. Carrie Wilson has some records. Pretty Girl Rock was fire.

She has some records. Yeah. But one could make the case that it just was never the same after that. Yeah. I get it. I understand. I think it's cool that you're owning up to it and regretting it. I think that type of tough is fine.

Do you think, so as far as the Esther Dean, because Carrie's thing is like, this is 16 years. Like, this has been a long time. Why? Like, you could have been, came out and say, oh, Carrie ain't right that right that I wrote it. But I mean, I guess the owner still falls on Carrie because you knew what that was. about when you went into the studio and you laid that track down, whether you wrote it or not. And I feel like, and again, no disrespect to Kerry Helson. I think Esther Dean is like, that's the record you're talking about.

Like, look at my catalog. Do you think I even think about that remix at all when I have drop it low, super bass, love suicide, another life? No, Carrie Hoseon had records. No, I'm saying from Esther Dean's side. Like, do you think Esther Dean is thinking about that fucking remix? No, but she's diamond records. Yeah, Estadine, I mean, if you know, you know, a lot of people don't know who Esther Dean is. And, you know, like I said, a lot of new people outside.

And, you know, they don't know. But if you know Esther Dean, you know she has hits. She's written some of the biggest records that we have that we've heard. So, I mean, I just don't like people bringing up. Like, because I know Kerry, obviously, she doesn't do a lot of interviews and doing Breakfast Club. Like you kind of figured they are going to bring that up. But I know she wants to get past that. Like she has to be tired of that just hanging over her.

Oh, for sure. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's just like, yeah, she said it and, you know, whatever. You know, maybe she wanted her back and, well, she probably did want her back and forth with Beyonce. That would have been probably worse. Yeah. But also, if you're submitting three different ideas, like Esther was probably just trying shit in the booth and sent it to polo. Yeah.

Like, all right, if you want to go this route, this is what I, like, that's not her fault if you were submitting a bunch of stuff and you guys decide to to this one. Like it's a bunch of different ideas. And Esther wrote Rude Boy that year. I don't think she was gave a fuck. Yeah. At all. Facts. Wrote sex therapy. And back to the crib. You know, y'all don't remember Back to the Crib? One of the rapiest hooks of all time. Yeah, I know. Yeah. That's what Esther should be coming at the podium for. Not this and Beyonce. She don't even know that we're going back to the crew. Yeah, it was wild times, man. You know what I'm saying? She wrote sex therapy. That's one of my

favorite songs in the world, like top 50 favorite songs in the world. She wrote Sex Therapy by Robin Thick. Oh, that's a classic. Yeah, Sadeen is not tripping about nothing. She's good. She's comfortable. Yeah. And I mean, shit, some of the biggest Chris Brown records ever. That was the

one two punch was her and Chris. But damn, Invented Head by Chris Brown. Y'all wasn't there back in them days? Invented Head? Demandis, you was 14 years old. When Inventonhead came out, I think I was around 14. actually, yeah, out of the ninth grade.

14 years old. You ain't know nothing about no head. Sit at the head of the class. That's what you do and do your goddamn homework. No, Carrie Hilsen, Trey songs and Usher, I'm about to reinvent sex. Carrie got him like what's next?

What? And I'm gonna make it my duty to have you so woozy you think I invented X. Please, y'all wasn't outside, yo. Maris, you wasn't outside. You was nine years old. He was the definition of him side. What are you talking about?

Who wasn't a? You were not outside. I was on Facebook tweeting the lyrics because that was back before your parents was on Facebook. Your parents wasn't on Facebook. So my old Facebook statuses are insane. Talking crazy. You would have been one of them girls that was on IG Live

and their father coming in a room with the belt and start tearing ass up. You would have definitely been one of them little girls. I can see them guys getting my ass beat on IG Live. I can see it. Saying you invented sex when your parents are. It's impossible. No, they invented you with sex.

You don't think of that. invented sex. Kish. Set off your fucking Facebook. Trying to get poked. Kids shit. Trying to get poked. Well, like in, you know, true fashion,

true white people fashion, where you all had to make y'all white rapper. Yeah. Mount Rushmore. What about us guys? Yeah, like it's naturally we can't talk about rap without talking about the white rapper. So they made it by a white rapper.

Lucian Grange, Leor Cohen, a bunch of faceless. Rick Rubin. Redacteds. All right. So this is Mount Rushmore. Obviously M&M, rest of the piece, Magmiller. Is that Paul Wall?

It appears to be Paul Wall. Paul Wall and Russ. I feel bad for the guy that had to sculpt Russ's hair. That would have taken it forever to chisel. He had leaving conditioner in his hair right there. That's a good leaving. I don't know if Paul Wall is on the white rapper Mount Rushmore. Again, establish what Mount Rushmore is.

Well, the ones that kind of, you know, laid the foundation for the foundations for the white rappers. So you would take Paul Wall off before Russ if we're talking about laying foundations? Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say, I didn't say I wouldn't take Russ off either, but just looking at that, I mean, Mac is still too young. The only case I would make for Mac was defining the generation of the new white rapper. Like where it went outside of Eminem, it was kind of corny for a, it was MC Search and Beastie Boys, which was cool. They're bass and shit. Then it was like corny for a while.

Then it was just Eminem. And then Mac action, like that whole time came. And I think Mac defines that era. So I think it's a forefather of the new white rapper. Maybe. Okay. Well, maybe. If you changing forefather to the new forefathers.

Well, there's not a lot of white rappers that are like really established and have credibility. Because if we're just going forefather shit, it's got to be M, MC search. We can't put, I guess, all the Beastie Boys. And this is going to sound crazy. And I'm not trolling. Vanilla Ice. I'm dead ass. Ice, baby.

Yeah, I don't know about vanilla ice, man. Why? How is he not one of the forefathers of white rap? You could say it's corny. You could hate it. You could say it was bad for hip-hop. But how is that not a forefather of- You're right.

Forefather, you're right. You would have to, you would have to. have vanilla ice there you would have to um i think you could put lp up there even from like the label side rapper side like lp defined underground this is this is this is this is a i don't know i might be swinging for the fence here but marky mark in the funky bunch you got to put marky mark up there man i'm sorry his brother more popular i mean he was in one of the biggest groups ever but i mean we're not going to act like marky mark didn't have some i mean was a house of pain oh house of pain definitely has to be a, yeah, it was a lot of groups.

Wait, Marky Mark is Mark Wahlberg? Yeah. What? No, he's Marky Mark. No, I knew, no, listen, I knew, listen. See, Landline. Did you ever use a landline phone? Yes, I've used a landline.

All right, cool, we could talk. I knew that Mark Wahlberg used to be a rapper. I also had heard of Marky Mark and the funky bunch. I never put together that that was the same Mark. Yeah, it's Mark Wahlberg. The legend. That's the legendary Mark Wahlberg. The funny shit is I'm looking at like the

Marky Mark and the funky bunch Like I'm looking at the wild side tape or whatever it is And I was about to say this man isn't white He mixed and then I look and it's Mark Wahlberg Mark Wahlberg The legend absolutely That is actually fucking hilarious Name in your group The Funky Bunch

After you were just arrested for racial slurs In Boston, Massachusetts Where do you get the balls To call yourself the Have the word funk in anything that you do Where's kid rock? Is kid rock? Kid Rock was I was gonna say

If we're just going off Facts and not feelings Do you have a case Kid Rock might need to be up there He might need to be on the Mount Rushmore of white rappers I completely forgot about House of Pain That was a great pick

But again these are all groups Like I didn't just put them like small As one of the heads Yeah you gotta just pick You know the head But it would be just like us as whites To change the rules And put 15 of us up there

Yeah Yeah Everybody gets a participation. Got to go get a new mountain. Yeah. Get a new mountain. Need more mountains. Outside of that, I don't know.

It was white rappers were weird up until recently. Wasn't really a thing. They're not still weird. It ain't not any white rappers out here. Just a lot of white rappers now. Like active right now? Who's active? Two years ago, Jack Harlow had the biggest year of any rubber.

Oh and Jack? Yeah. Jack. Yeah. Maclemore. had a great time whether you liked it or not. Yeah, but they had like a little two year, three year room. Action Bronson, Yellow Wolf at a time, MGK.

I mean, Post Malone doesn't consider himself a rapper unless it's convenient. Yeah. So, oh, God, so I happened to click on, because he came on after Meg last night, but I was like going to sleep. But I just happened to click on it. And I'm like, who is this Bama ass, country ass, man, this post? The legend. Okay. He came out with a beer.

I had some tight Levi's. I said, oh, okay. I see it. Let's get right to it. We're going to get right into the set. Yeah. I fuck with folks. Oh, I forgot.

Our guy, Vinnie Pass, that you said, I don't listen to. You don't listen to Vinny Pass, man. You don't know nothing about Vinny Pass. But is logic up there? No. After his new sound, he's going to be up there. Wait, well, why is logic not on the Mount Rushmore? Well, who would you take out to put logic there?

As far as rap? Yeah. Just rapping? You're going to take Paul Wall out to put Logic there. The South's going to shoot. The South might actually come find you. I might actually shoot you.

We just saw my- He had the internet going nuts. That's the people's champ right there. Yeah. I'm saying we just talking about rap, though. What'd that mean, no. Logic could rap better than a lot of these dudes on this Mount Rushmore is what I'm saying.

I will take any Paul Wall verse over. Over logic? Yeah. Even if you walked in there and just started freestyle. It's hard to take Paul Wall up to Mount Rush more, though. It's hard. Again, in that transition. Now, where's Bubba Sparks at, though?

college park bubba sparks we gotta give bubba sparks some love where where's my where's my white ID my actual ID I gotta turn that over we gotta give dungeon family's finest bubba sparks deliverance one of the greatest records ever oh ugly one of the greatest videos ever we gotta give bubba sparks some love man page make me every character from the bubba sparks ugly video come on man bubba sparks legend yeah no come on white rap legend man come on we can't do that we got to get bubble Sparks his flowers, man. We can't do that. Yeah, I'm with you there. I'm definitely with you there. Are we allowed to play a snippet of the new

Logic Zone? We can't play shit. We can't play none. We already got another copyright strikes into our email. Well, you guys know, I think Logic is a friend of the show. I actually think he's a good guy. I've enjoyed speaking to him. I enjoyed speaking to him afterwards. I've said to his face and music is not for me. Doesn't mean you can't like someone as a person if you're not

just there for all their music. This is my first time actually being upset at Logic. I wish we could play the snippet. He's in his Playboy Cardi Travis Scott era now. And I just don't think the streets need that. I mean, if it makes you happy, do it makes you happy.

I'm not here to stop you with your musical dreams. You're independent. Do it what the fuck you want to do. You're rich. You're a parent. The world is your oyster. I didn't hear it. But oh my God. I think he's trolling.

He has to be. This has to be a joke. All right, so we just came back in because I wanted Mall to hear this snippet so we could react to it properly. It slaps, I just don't need it from Logic. Well, first things first. The last time, I remember Logic saying he was retiring from making music.

Yeah, but every rapper says that. He's put out three albums since then. Yeah, okay, so let's start there. Yeah, I don't, again, we just going off a snippet that 12 seconds. You think the be going to change some boom bat? No, I want to hear what he's going to come in? No, I want to hear what he's rapping like. Oh, I assume it's going to be in that flow for the remainder of the song.

But I don't know, maybe he's getting barlow. Because you could get bars off on that. Or could this be like some logic conspiracy way to show how easy making that type of music is? Now, I can see Logic doing that as well. That's where I was one of those guys. He'll definitely show you how easy it is to music. He tricked the Wu-Tang to get back together. Anything is possible.

Yeah. I don't know, man. I just think Logic is just one of those guys that's just so musically inclined and talented that, you know, he's going to try things and, you know, sometimes it's going to land, sometimes not. But I do want to hear that record. I want to hear if he's actually rapping and going on that record. I see what you're saying because I also, and it's going to piss all of our listeners off. I agree.

Logic is extremely talented. Even if it's not for you, you cannot say that. That person right there is not talented. Absolutely. Why are talented people regurgitating other bullshit? You're talented. You don't need to do that.

If you weren't talented, I get it right away. Why would a talented person need to do that? That would be my issue with logic. That's my issue, and I'm not comparing Kanye and logic at all. But when Kanye, with yay was just riding the wave of the sound that was going now. I'm like, you're a genius. Why are you

doing this? That's where I think it's kind of weird. But I don't know. Show people. Show how easy it is with AI to make that type of music. I could see Logic doing that to make a point and just showing how easy it is to mimic that sound and try to recreate it in his own way. But listen, I want to hear a song. I can't, off a snippet, I can't kill Logic and say, yo, he's trying to sound

like Playboy Cardi and all these guys. I got to hit a record. And we can get off this, but they did a trap Mount Rushmore as well, which at Gucci, Ti, GZ, and Yogadi. And initially, everyone was upset about Future not being there. I don't think about future when I think trap. But again, I'm not for the self, so I'm not the right person to talk about it. I mean, he's in that category, but I feel you. He's like right after, I think, the trap shit. But he definitely has trap elements for sure.

For sure. Like, if you called him a trap rapper, I wouldn't be like, no. But I mean, as far as the. Forefather shit, I mean, yeah, it's kind of, I think they kind of nailed it. I'm not mad at that. I'm not mad at Gucci, Ti-Gi and Yogi and Yogi. Yeah. If you are going to take somebody off and add a future, then it would probably Yogadi.

Yeah. But I'm not mad at, I'm not mad at this photo as far as track, Rushmore. No, I'm not mad at that. Yeah, that one didn't have as much, like, outrage because everyone from the South was like, yeah, this is perfect. We're amazing. Yeah. This is perfect. You nailed it.

We've never made a mistake or had a bad music opinion in our entire list. Honorable mention for Trapped Rushmore. Titty Boy, two chains. Yeah. To have him on there. I'm with you. Yeah. I'm definitely with you.

And I mean, new generation, Doug has to be there too. Absolutely. But again, not Mount Rushmore. He would be for the next generation for sure. Doug said, I'm going up, eat on that pussy and dip. You love, you felt that? That niggas is a genius. All right, man.

All right, baby, Dee. What's you going through? You're right? What's you going through? We hear to listen to you. What's going on? You got a little food setting left? Yo, like, what's up?

Baby, they're like, yo, he's a genius. What? My bad. Because he got that off and just left. And he did it in A minor. There's a lot there. Oh, I sort of got my brain. I know, and that's how it happened.

My brain was not even, that was way more layer than I thought. Exactly. And that's how it was. No, he did not do that to a minor. Right, right. I got you. I got you. I got you. I know what you were saying, but I got you.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode, but with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up.

If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything, but at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food.

They cannot feed their kids. they do not have homes, communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. I said, hi, dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen. She says, I have some cookies and milk. This is this badass convict man just finished five years.

have cookies and milk at them all. Yeah. On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail, talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to Bench featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. and without this trouble, I'm going to die. Open your free I-Heart radio app.

Search the Cino Show and listen now. She don't want to go out. She don't want to stand up for more than 12 minutes. And I'm about to freeze my eggs. You about to do what? Freeze my eggs. Maybe. What?

I'm a woman that wants to have kids eventually. You're 31. Two weeks into 31 years old. But that's still, your eggs start dying at 25. Yeah, that's something you have. Don't your eggs die. Don't your eggs die, period? Yes.

You lose them and I'm not getting anymore. So, yeah, I have to start thinking about that. Freezing my eggs. Anything can happen. Do they tell me how many you have every? No, I would have to go get that checked out and I'm not really for them to go up in there yet. But yeah, I'm probably getting them frozen.

Do you think you know the person you're going to have kids with? Like, you got out of meta ready? I used to think so, but no, not anymore. Okay. What about you? You're going to freeze your spark? Well, when do y'all fertilize my eggs? Sorry, said I dig a last longer?

wouldn't you what? So when I go to freeze my eggs fertilized eggs tend to last longer and do better. So like will one of y'all fertilized like half of them? But when you like put it back in, would we be the father? Yes. You think that I would give you. Maybe that you think that I would let you take my sperm and fertilize your egg?

First of all, you got like five more years left before like you start giving your kids at risk for autism and stuff. You have to freeze that sack, brother. Yeah. Like you, the older men. are the less healthy the kids are likely to be. I'm just saying. So, come on, we can have a kid. A little pie, baby. That just sounds like a terrible idea. It's a black mirror episode.

That is a terrible idea. That is definitely a black mirror episode. Oh my God. Imagine that? You imagine the headlines if I donate my sperm to baby these egg? Like, can you imagine that? Reddit would go crazy. First of them, there'd be a whole different Reddit just for that. Yo, Pee's bleak. First of all. kind of like I didn't we didn't even have sex

that you just gave her sperm that's like the president like what type of shit did you have a kid like nah yeah that is crazy

we have a little power baby I know some people that have like packs with their friends like platonic friends yeah I had one before this she went out of baby

damn you broke the you broke the pack wait what was the age for the pack like if we're both this age if because she's

I think like four years younger than me So at the time, she was like when she was 35, which or 30, and I would have been turning 34, 35. She was like, what, would you have a kid? I was like, yeah. And then like two years later, she had a kid. Broke the pact. Yeah, she thought about that shit a little long thing.

How long were you going to give her, too? So she turned 35? That's what she was saying. Okay, got you. Because she had introduced the idea of it. And I was like, yo, we like super cool. Like, yeah, why not? I would.

Oh, this is where I wish we had another mic. Maybe P. or Josh could just yell. What traits do you think the baby would take from each of these? Do you think this would be a well-meshed baby as far as how they act? If I was to donate sperm to baby these eggs? Yeah. Oh, no, that baby would be lit. I think you guys would balance each other out well for the child.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, baby these, I'm not. I'm going to be an absent father. No, for sure. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no. be an absent mother.

No, no, no, no, no. We both can't be absent, baby, D. Somebody has to be present. But you got a big family. That's what I thought about. You do too. Like, Rory, you got a big family. You do too.

You all your phone with one of your sisters every day. I don't know which one. But you got 400 and motherfuckers, though. That's true. And your nephew is so well raised. He's amazing. But what that got to do with you taking this kid? Nah, I ain't doing that.

What? Nah, I'm not the primary parent. You're the primary parent. How? You're the one that's carrying you the baby. Yeah, for nine months and then for 18 years, that's on you. Hell, no. I don't think that's how that works.

See, that's crazy. The American tradition is the father of him. It's funny that you're going to carry the seed for nine months and then be like, yo, I'm cool. What's so funny about the scenario is you guys are planning to abandon your child. Not that I understand that people abandon their kids, but when shit happens, you'd be like, all right, he didn't want that baby. The shit happened. So he jetted. You guys are going to science to create a child to then abandon.

Yeah, but look how it started. starts. I am donating. I am the donor. It's a personal donation. Yeah. It's a, yeah. I am depositing into Baby Dee's account. Yes. Of her egg. Yeah. She carries the egg. Yeah, she carries the egg. She can't just leave the egg once it happens. You make more money to me. Like if in a child before war, I would lose because you make more money to me. No, no, we don't got to go there. Imagine if a woman went to a sperm bank with the intention to abandon her child. I just want to have it, but I want it. I just want to have a but I want it. I just want to have it, but I don't want it.

They're going to be like, I don't. Yeah. How are you a surrogate for a surrogate for a surrogate? There's a difference between being, you don't abandon, but not the primary parent. Like when it comes to like when the kid wants something, it needs to go to daddy first. All right. So here, here's what we do. If it's a girl, you have to keep it because I can't, I can't raise a woman.

I would not want my daughter raised by you. So agree. Wait, wait, hold on. What that mean? You just said you. can't raise a girl why because i would have to kill one of these little yans out here i don't want to do that that's the only reason so you want to raise one a yin yeah yeah yeah yeah definitely raising a yin for sure but if it's a boy i'll take it i'll raise what's funny is i think he'd get all his violence

from damaris i'd be more scared of his mother's side in a situation like to make an irrational impulse decision to murder me yeah i'm definitely going with damaris aside yeah so you have to raise it if it's a girl cool i think that should be a thing anyway that's it no girls need their fathers absolutely but I'm saying like if y'all if the parents break up split like you know we get separate households we don't live together I think that if it's a daughter she should

still have a bond in a life with the father but primary residence who raises her I think should be the mother and if it's a boy I think he should live under his dad's roof Girls, the age 12 through 17, need to be with their fathers. Like every day? Yes, they need to be with their fathers. Damn, like parenting?

Yeah. Why, though? What do you mean why? That's when they need y'all the most. That's when they need you all the most. That's when they need to be reassured the most, that male attention they need the most. No, but you still, I'm not saying like the father is completely, I'm saying as far as live in the house. You ever seen a 13-year-old girl argue with her mother?

that should have shake the neighborhood. You've got to have a twin sister. You think I've never seen the 13. Exactly. Exactly. The diplomat of the house. I had to grow up fast. And if your daddy would have been off that stuff,

your sister would have left and went with him immediately. I'm telling you, she would have asked her. She would have been gone. Yeah. And there is a point where mothers and daughters clash. Yeah. Them teenage years, it's tough. It's like soon as your first period.

As soon as that first period happened, that's it. That's it. It's over. Now it's like two women fighting for like, I've seen it. I'm just telling me what I'm saying. Pissing on trees. Who got the,

who got the smarter mouth? Who got the bigger attitude? Who had the last? Mm-hmm. That last last? That last word? Yo. You don't want to know how many times

my house shook up and down for the last one. I'm like, why don't you all just shut the fuck up? Just both of y'all. And now they're both mad at you. I'm 14. I'm 14, like both of y'all. Shut the fuck up. Like, just let it.

go. Like, yeah, it's crazy. That's a real thing. I don't know what it is about teenage. It's like, we just become monsters. My mother's thing used to be Damaris Ice's like, okay, okay. She's like, Demerisat, swear to God, say okay, one more motherfuck at times. Yeah, it's the last. Y, y'all want that last last. You know how many battles

I've seen over the last? I'm like, yo, we talk about a box of cereal. This started at a box of cereal. And now we all the way here. Like, what are we talking about? But then raising a teenage boy, you have to factor in all the towels that you can crack half by the end of the week. It's going to be fucking seeming everywhere.

Like, do you want a quiet house with dirty towels or a loud one with, you know, a tampon or two? Now, me and my mom used to always, like, our thing was always like just me, like, coming in the house late after a while. Like, that was my mom. Like, I was just started hanging out in the streets. You've been a whore. No, but it wasn't even that. It was like literally just being outside, like, with the, with the homies. Like, we go into Brooklyn.

We go on the Queens. And we're taking the train. It's two in the morning. And my mom was like, what are you? How are you? You think you were just coming here at three, four in the morning? Like, what's? And it's like, yo, we're the, I'm not saying nothing wrong with it.

But looking back, I understand why my mother was so. Yeah. It's crazy. You know what it is to be on the train at three in the morning as a 16-year-old black kid. Yeah. And she can't sleep. Like, as a parent, you can't sleep. Yeah.

So that was my thing. That was my. And then the girls, you know, come bringing the girls to the house. That was a thing. But my mom's thing was better than bringing the boys to the house. So, you know what I'm saying? I was just like. Jesus is like.

We've decided what we're going to do depending on if it's a boy or a girl with that agreement. Let's say we get to 15 and a transition wants to happen. Does the household transit? You can't help yourself, can't you? You can't help us? Like transitions from boy to girl? I knew we were going to take that out. Anyways, please you can keep it on me.

Okay, do we guys, come back over. I got you. Just why? Because why? Because I was sitting right there. Okay. Do we have names that we can agree on? We already know where the boy or the girl is staying.

Do you have boy names? Yeah. I got boy names. What's your boy names? I think I want a junior. Not naming my kid Jamal, but it's spelled Jamil. I'm not doing it. Why?

He's Muslim. You take a shahadah? With a Jesus piece on. Yeah. Take a shahada. Yeah, raise a Muslim baby. Yeah. I can see you.

turn a Muslim. She needs one month with Kevin Gates. You know right? Kevin got Britney draped. I might be the only person. I might be the only person ever stressed Kevin Gates out. Kevin wouldn't stress me out. I would stress Kevin. He seems like you're type. I don't mean that a bad way. I'm serious. He's a challenge. I love a challenge.

Yeah. Y'I would argue all fucking dead. Yeah, Kevin Gates and Demiris? Yeah, that's an argument. Waiter. Do you have girl names? She gave us girl names before. Alexander. or Anastasia. Jamaris.

Jemaris. For the left Bill. I like Jamaris. No, you don't. No, you do not. You don't like Jamaris. You can still be a junior. Jamaris Jr.

And it's like, what is? Who's the girl? Like, it's a unisex name? We saw the Smiths do it. Look how that turned out. Great. Creative kids. Two creative kids.

Absolutely. Yeah. We're going to have a kid that talks too fucking much. Two podcasters can't have a kid. Kid won't shut the fuck up. No, that kid's going to be head quiet. It's funny because I mean, Rory knows. I only talk here.

Yeah. I'm saying? No, I only talk here. I don't talk to nobody outside of this shit. I talk to the same four people every day, probably, outside of these walls. Because I have a word count, like a Twitter word count. And it usually ends here. Yeah.

Go home and be quiet. Yeah, I talked to my nephew, like, he's one of the four people I'd speak to every day. And he's, I'll just my nephew. Five? Nine. Nine. Nine. Damn.

I told him every day. He's one of the few people I talk to every day. A nine-year-old. I'm talking to nobody. Fuck y'all. All right. Am I by proxy just the Godfather? Is that just how?

Yeah, absolutely. Nah, because if he go broke, you go broke too. I need somebody that's not connected. What you mean? I need somebody who ain't, we can't all have the same. No. Yeah.

No, because if we get canceled, because Rory can't stop mentioning the goddamn. Then no, the Godfather. I have never referred to them as that. Neither one of them. The goddamn.

The goddamn. Keep coming up in here. Bying up all the good with great Christian man's air. You know, DeMaris is fucking crazy Just bleep, bleep it off I'm sorry But yeah, what was the voicemail? No, we got them right

I told him go to Columbia, DR You know what I mean? Just get you some bullshit luggage, man Don't worry about it. Go to Target or go to What's the other? Not Target, Walmart

T.J. Max. T.J. Max. Target is probably going to have some expensive luggage, though. I mean, just get you some, you know, just black, something stir. durable. This is not an ad but sell volume they owe us one. Away luggage is affordable and great.

Yeah, absolutely. I've ran my away luggage under the ground over the last five years. How do you spell it? Oh, A-W-A-Y. Yeah. Create a code just for the fuck of it. Yeah, just for the fuck of it. Credit code. These are the ads that work when you say shit like that. We'll leave an Amazon link in our description. Yeah, man. Just go do that. Go to Columbia, DR.

Take you about, you know, $1,000 spending cash if you have, if not $500 of due. You just have fun for like four days. Just journal out there. Yeah, just get your mind right. You know what I'm saying? Make sure, you know, like I said, keep yourself protected and have fun, man.

Enjoy yourself. All right. All right. Well, it's been good talking to you guys. Now it's time for me to shut up for the rest of the evening. Pige, is there like an AI program that we can see what the baby would look like between Moore and Demeris?

Because, I mean, to me, that's the other. I was thinking that's the other. I was thinking, yeah, is that what you were thinking, Peach, you over there, when you're a little lair. They were saying me and Ma'all look alike. See, that's racist. That is racist. When I, my face was chunkier, they said me, I look like a female mall.

We don't look alike. I'm like, mall literally has a twin. I look nothing like her. Yeah, we don't, we don't look alike. That's just them being racist, but it's all good. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pay. Picky here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became big. than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes

of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right

where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up.

If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything, but at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food.

They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. I said, hi, Dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen. She says, I have some cookies and milk.

This is a badass convict. Right. Just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk at them all. Yeah. On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail to talk about addiction,

transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to. Bench featuring powerful conversation with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this trouble, I'm going to die. Open your free I-Heart radio app. Search the Cito Show. And listen now.

What is going on with my expert opinion? I do not know. The barbershop. I have been just because, you know, love the show. Fuck with math. I've just been paying attention to what's going on. We're not here to judge. We understand how fucking crazy it is to try to keep a podcast business going.

But where does this leave the show? In the hands of the owner. Okay. In the hands of the owner. I don't have a lot of information as far as like where it's going to go. I found out a lot of things in real time with everybody else. I knew the lights were off. Okay.

I went to, we went to do an episode. I'm the one who called him and told him the lights were off. So, you know, that's jacked up. told them to fight for the shop. Not because not because the aesthetic is so needed, but because I felt the way it was done was dirty.

I don't think you should let people get away with the bullshit. So you should fight for the shop. But, you know, the spot isn't, the spot isn't the show. The voices of the show. The energy is the show.

You guys, you too could pick up, go someplace else and be still be Rory a mall. You think what I'm saying? Like when you left, when it was Joe Budden and then next thing it's Roryham All, you're still Roryn Moll. My expert opinion will be my expert opinion no matter where it is. Agreed. It's not, I don't like the, I don't like the fact that all the business is on Front Street, but that wasn't my call either. So we'll see what happens.

Like, we'll see what shakes out. People are hitting me up for answers that I'm kind of watching what everybody else. So, like, you know, Matt, can you see what's going on? Yeah, I'm looking right now. It's crazy. You got some popcorn? It's nuts. You see this shit?

Oh, wow. Fuck, did you see that? So you and MAF haven't had any personal conversations at all about it? We spoke, um, we spoke months ago. And we knew that the landlord was like being a little shaky. You see him walking by looking in like when we're filming an episode, but dozens of people walk by and look in. You see a barbershop with a bunch of bright lights, you know what I mean?

And microphones, of course, you stop and what the fuck is that? So I didn't pay attention to every, I didn't know what you look like. And I stayed out of the business part of it. Like if I'm not involved, if I'm not directly involved, if I can't help in any way, shape, or form, I'm not injecting myself into anybody's situation, especially when it comes to finances. Yeah. Those are your pockets.

You spend your money. what you do. I don't want to know how much you're making. I don't want to know. I'm from Queens. All I care about is my bread. I don't need, I don't want any of yours. I need all of mine. That's, that's the philosophy. I'm not, I'm not here to pocket check or pocket watch you. Under any circumstances. So as far as, as far as, as far as like the, the, being, he did tell us when, you know, Homeboy was trying to, after the light thing, and Homeboy's trying to kick us out, blah, blah, blah. Like, well, he needs barbers in these hands.

He told us all the same stuff that he said online. So, yeah, we had that conversation, but. Wait, the landlord said he needs barbers in the shop? Well, I'm not saying anything that's not already. Yeah, of course. There's something in the contract that says you have to have barbers in the chair or it's like a subsection where it says you can use it for other purposes. Right?

But the main thing is the barbers. and I can understand that if I'm a landlord now on the spot and I walk by, you know, three or four days out of the week and the shutters are down and the lights are off and this is my place. I want to see it active and moving. You don't want your building looking like it's abandoned, basically. I mean, if the agreement, though, is per month I owe you this. What I do with it is kind of none of your fucking business.

Unless there's a suspicion that you're doing something illegal. Okay, which obviously that was not happening. in that. If we're selling drugs on camera, like, you might have just did something with that. We ain't think about that one.

You, you, what'd you think RFK was there for? Wow. Wow. Okay. Well.

That was where the suspicion started. What is RFK doing here? It's been sold on camera. Some shady shit right now. Girls have been sold on camera before. Absolutely. Yeah.

Not when I'm around. Right. Not when I'm around. So, you know, some shit makes sense. some shit just doesn't. I didn't communicate with him

because I wasn't asked to. And it's not my, it's not, for lack of a better term, it's not my place. Okay, but is that something you at least check in with him on of like the status of like what's happening or you have so many resources?

I couldn't see why math would hit you to be like, oh, this is what's going on? Is there something you can help out with? That never happened. Okay. I just feel like somebody like you would be the first call with the resources that you have. and could provide

to keep that movement. But that never happened. Like we are where we, if that was the case, I don't think we, you know, if he had asked and I, and I could figure it out.

Yeah. Of course I would. When have you ever asked me for something and I said, nah, go fuck yourself? Never. Or like didn't even answer the phone for you.

Never. Like, if I'm not answering the phone, excuse me, if I'm not answering the phone, I'm busy as fuck. Mm-hmm. I am like working going albums

with like an icon. So like my day. are jumbled up and if we're not filming the show then I have things that I definitely need to put my attention to but juggling wasn't a problem and anybody calling me for anything it's nothing to be like okay I got you but like you know if I don't have it if I can't help you I'm not gonna pretend I can you think there's a window with this shit because I mean the podcast world is so unpredictable with fans algorithms everything with the steam that y'all had

You know, being one of the top shows. Is the window small to come back? Just the way shit operates and how quick everyone moves. How quick do you think you guys need to come back? It's not risk-free, right? I'll give you that. I'll say that. It's not, I can't, I don't have a,

because they also say absence makes the heart grow fond of. You know, we were obviously providing something that, you know, was different from our peers. We don't do what Rorya Maldu. We don't do what Joe Button does. We don't do what Drink Champs does. Not in the same way. We're all doing something different.

Your voices are unique. Again, wherever Rorya Mall go, it's Rorya Mall. You can't duplicate the voices, right? Wherever my expert opinion goes, it's my expert opinion. You can't duplicate the voices. You can't duplicate the energy. So if people miss that, then there's always going to be a window for something that somebody misses.

You know what I'm saying? but maybe the main eyes. Like, maybe, I heard that. Oh, sorry. Sorry. No. I mean, it kind of goes back to the casual fan combo we were having. Like, there's podcasts that I'll watch all the time.

And if I start clicking other shit and somehow they get out of my algorithm, it's not at the top of my mind. Sure. Because it doesn't pop up. I just think that's how we're kind of trained with everything now. I've fallen off with podcasts, not because I dislike them. It's because with all the busy shit I'm doing during the day, sometimes my algorithms is what's going to be the thing that I clicked that day. For sure.

So, I mean, that's where I think not a window would be small because you guys have already built a core fan base that's always going to be there. Like, you know how much I love. There's a million subscribers on that. Yeah, it's incredible. Like so. You guys were the only podcast that I don't want to say late to the party because it sounds like disrespectful, but it's not.

When everyone, the podcast boom hit, everyone tried to do a podcast and they all failed. you guys were the only ones that came in after like the core and I see and passed us like I see what you mean yeah the only one and to me that was like the most unique shit ever when math launched it I was like oh this is really good conversation but this is when everyone has a fucking podcast because they saw what the rest of us were doing yeah were the only ones post boom that actually stayed this so I do think of course no matter what there's the window is open yeah but there's magic with because we've been through it So you know there's no judgments on this side. We have a little therapy session.

What have these ups and downs been like with people leaving the show, messiness, new podcasts. Every single day they're talking more about what's going on with the cast rather than the actual show. What has that been like? Because you've been, I feel like, the only one from the original cast that's still there. I'm not even the original cast. Oh, yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah, no, I'm second generation at best. I'm not even

original cast And I think there I think there might have been an iteration Between the first And the second I might be third But the question is

What has it been like? Yeah Navigating with You know Now that we have bag fuel Them leaving The Space Ghost situation Like

There's been a lot of Drama with that show And who are we to fucking speak We've had the same type of shit But I don't know if we had the same type of shit Oh shit Public

breakup? Fallouts? Yeah. And like they, I mean, even, everybody is. Part of our breakup was on their show. Like, we've had public shit. Yeah. Well, how about that? How is that, Ben? Because I mean, I know you still have a great relationship with the guys at Bagfuel. And I don't know your situation with Space Ghost, but how have you navigated that? Like, who gets who in the divorce?

Like, I still love Savon, but, you know, it's weird. Nothing, nothing is weird for me. It is going to sound very anti-climatic. I'm chilling. Okay. I'm really, I'm chilling. I don't have any beef with anybody. I don't have no smoke with nobody.

Me and math are still in business. Me an S.O. A co. Me, a hyanagan, cool. Me, and space are cool. These people were mentioned and didn't do anything to me. Facts. You know what I mean?

And I also live by a very specific philosophy. My father told me a long time ago, if you didn't disrespe, violate somebody's kids, violate somebody's wife, send somebody to jail to take somebody's life, it's not that serious. You can work it out. You can figure out a way to coexist

with that other person on the other side of that thing. Money loss, you can give it back. Food gone, you can give it back. Like, Tom gone, you can make amends. You can figure that shit out. Only four unforgivables were the ones I just named and none of that happened.

In any of these situations, nobody did anything to anybody that's so crazy, you can't get back right. And when it's not that, I can't, I don't have, it's hard for me to put energy into beef, friction, like whatever you want to call it. It's hard, I don't. They don't have to necessarily be a beef.

But outside of those four things, there's things that people can do that would definitely warrant you never fucking with them again. Sure. But even that doesn't come with any anger. It doesn't come with any malice. It doesn't come with any, like, I'm not looking for you. And if it's not that, then what?

Yeah. If it's not that, if I'm not looking for you to actively harm you, it's not beef. I don't understand what we're arguing about. Like, we disagree fundamentally. We're not seeing eye to eye creatively. I guess we go our separate ways. When I see you out, yo, what up? How's it going?

What's popping? You didn't do nothing to me. Like, nothing crazy. And if you did something, I got it back. So what we talk about? You were never going to My other philosophy in this business You'll need me before I need you

It's always been true Every year of my career it's been true Anyone who's ever tried to do me dirty It's had to spin the block Or look for the better Look for another me And end up with the T-Moo version It's always been hilarious

I don't even It's to the point where I don't even trip anymore And I don't have that situation now I don't know this landlord You know what I mean whatever he did, I don't know the business. I wasn't there when the paperwork was signed and the contracts was signed for me to jump in now

and go, hold on, wait a minute, dude. What about this part? I look stupid doing that, right? Like, whatever he signed the lease, I didn't know it was a, I didn't know he was sub-leasing. I didn't get involved. Math owns the shop.

Okay, cool. He doesn't own the shop. Okay, cool. Well, he's sub-leasing. All right, cool. What part of finding that out? Yeah, what part of finding that out changes anything that I have to do. My job is to show up, be me, talk about the things I know, research the things I don't, and keep the, keep the show, keep, rep the show, rep the energy,

rep, rep the, rep the spot. We're not a crew, we're not a gang. You know what I'm saying? Not family, we're people. We work together. And it's a good look and we all do great work together. And as long as it's that, I learned late in my career on some source, magazine shit. I learned very late in my career, way later than I should have. You can't get but so attached to something that does not belong to you. Facts. Bad idea. And Rory, you may remember there was a time when I was just Mecca from the Source. That was my whole, I was in people's phones. That was literally the sent, like that was the full name. Nobody knew my last name. Fuck that. Mecca from the Source for everybody. Regardless of where I wrote, that's how

hard I was with that brand. When I got offered other spots, I debted it because I felt like you were insulting me. How dare you question my loyalty to what I'm doing? Fuck out my face. I think I'm a jump ship. The fuck I look like to you. You know what I'm saying?

I got angry, like to the point where you think that of me, you think I would actually do some shit like, bro, when the store started making wild moves and I'm in the back going, no, what the fuck? No. my God. And he did it anyway. It's not mine. It's not mine. It doesn't belong to me. It's not my say. It's not my call for me to sit here and scream at the top of my lungs, get all upset, get an ulcer over somebody else's decision. It's crazy. Yeah. It's great. I mean, but at the same time,

I think that it is some sort of communication that should be had so that you're not blindsided when you don't have to know the exact details of everything. But if you're saying you found out about shit when I found out about shit, that's a problem to me. Finding, me finding out ain't the issue. Him telling everybody is pretty much the cornerstone of the gripes, right? That's where all the smoking. Me, him telling the public. Right.

Okay. Right. Could I stop him from doing that? He never asked me. He never told me he was going to do that. He didn't tell any of it. I can't speak for any of us. I know he never told me.

I found out he was on line like everybody else. I'm getting my phones blowing up. Yo, you see you, man? I got a lot of, who, who we talk about? Rory? Like, I got a song. What do you mean? Yeah.

No, Buster? Who? What, motherfucker, no, man, this. Okay, I'll go look. I went and looked. Oh, shit, well. Right. Oh, run that back.

But what am I supposed to do about it? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I get upset, get mad, get excited. It's his shop. It's his show. Yeah, but it's, I mean, but you've also dedicated a lot of, you know, sweat equity to the brand. That's worth.

That's worth. That's worth, whatever it's worth. And I did that. It's a worth to it, though. I did that because of me. Yeah, no, for sure. Absolutely. But I just saying, like, I just thought that there would be some type of communication between

you and math to where you would at least not be blindsided by some of the things you're hearing him say publicly. I thought that you would know you would at least know what was going on a little bit maybe not exactly what's in the paperwork I knew I knew a little bit about what was going on like I said I knew the landlord was acting

a little shaky I knew I was the first one to find out the lights was off and I kind of figured I don't know if he actually yeah he told us that the landlord was out to evict us but I didn't realize it would get

it wasn't in that order like the lights off was the last thing okay all right oh shit the lights were off called him told him hey, I don't know how we're going to do this episode. The lights is off. You might call somebody.

I don't know what's been happening. Like, I had no episode today. All right. All right. Going to the studio, got to do X, Y, Z, A, B, and C. Let me know what's happening. Next time we need to come to a show, I'll pull up and do my part. But outside of that, no one's obligated or entitled to anything.

No one's entitled to any information. Nobody's obligated. It's not frowned upon when it happens. Yeah, from a leadership standpoint, maybe it would be better and behoove the staff to know everything that's going on just for the show. But I see what Meg's saying because, like, that's a drastically different situation than ours where you're sitting behind expenses. We have a contract that is based off everything that is spent here, that we need to see this and that. That's in a contract. It was started from in session together with sweat equity.

It's drastically different. But him being second, third generation of that, like, yeah, if that was the case, like, when, you're a question together, when I was. I've been hired to do stuff. I know this is what it is and ain't my fucking business. Like, as long as you have my check every month, there's not really much I can say here. Nor do I want to, because it's not

my, I'm paid to show up to do this at the best of my ability and grow the show the best way I can. I got, I would get, um, yeah, but you yeah, but how you, but you, but you, but Mac is, yeah. But I mean, that, back to your source comparison too. Like, I remember when Seif left

hot 97. when he had that revelation like, oh, I put my life into this logo and then realized I was expendable and they did not give a single fuck about me. Even though I was the most senior person in there as far as years in,

I was fighting for a logo that did not give a fuck. Like, why would I even do that? No, I should just showed up. It's not sure a logo. Did my morning show and went to fuck home and not even fought with breakfast club and like, no, I don't care about this logo.

You get caught up. You get caught up. You want, first of all, when I was at the source, bro, that was the Bible. Yeah. Grew up on that magazine. Yeah.

That's like the perfect word. Who wants to let that go? Right. Who wants to see that ruin? Who wants to see that tarnish? When it's literally your dreams, I was writing about hip hop as a hip hop head in the hip hop Bible. Every day.

You had to tell me to go home. You know what I mean? I was in no office all the fucking time. I had a toothbrush in that bitch. I was there. I wear glasses now because I stand in the screen for way longer than I should have, way longer than it was healthy. Now I need glasses.

Like I did that because of my love for this place, but it doesn't belong to you. Every career I've ever worked with, every artist I've ever helped, foster or get his shit back on track or put this album together, whatever, whatever. When it comes time for them to make the decisions that they want to make, you have to remember it's not yours. You can see the red flags can look like a fucking parade in China.

You can see it a mile away. You can scream at the top of your fucking lungs, bro. What they want to do, they are going to do. And that goes for anything that you are not directly in control of. Right. And you are disrespecting them by assuming that you have more safe. or you have any say over their shit. Yeah, but also from, and I'm not making this a math-specific thing,

because I know nothing about his leadership outside looking in. With that, though, like if you have people that are leaving, you are also responsible for the chemistry of that show as a co-host. Sure. So you do have to deal with the decisions that the leader does make. Like when Esso and Heideken left, I'm sure the interviews in the beginning were a little different because part of that show was gone.

A chemistry was gone. Sure. Like how you guys played off each other, who was asking specific questions, Like you have a very specific set of questions. Math has a very specific. Like there's, that's why the show was so great. So many different perspectives.

As a leader, I do feel like you should keep your team at least involved in some of what's going on with that info. Because they also are going to have to move this show with the decisions that you make. And just showing up with me like, oh, they're not here? And now I got to figure this out. Wish I would have known. I'm past that point in my career I'm not trying to sound like

Mr. Cool but if I'm being honest I've been in places with high turnover you know what I mean and I know what that's like it's not pleasant I thought that team put numbers on the board in a real way me S.O. Heineken Mav bigger space ghost

that was the unit that Eminem shouted out. out. First rapper to ever like big us up just out of nowhere. Hey,

those guys know what the fuck did that. That was amazing. Yeah. shout out to him for that. I never forgot that. this story is out.

I tried to set up the dinner for all of us to sit down and air out our agreements. I had the spot in Little Italy. We were all supposed to meet up. As so, Heineken space goes, me, big up, math. We were all supposed to sit down and have the conversation. It did not happen.

Why? Math said he wasn't going. Okay. And again, this is public information. Yeah, yeah, of course. He said it. He said he wasn't going. His decision to make is his, but I get it.

But leadership as well. Again, outside looking at. My pops told me one time when the results don't change, The Y is irrelevant. Yeah, that's a fact. Fair. I stop asking. I don't know.

I don't even want to know at this point. Yeah. Like, fuck it. Let's move on. Yeah. If I found out, would it change something? Right. Why won't you cut?

Let's say, it's going to make him pop up. I'm like, I'm going to talk him into it. He's grown in. Right. Yeah. I still suffer from that. I've gotten better in my 30s, but I'm definitely one of those people that harps on the why. And it never really changes once I know the why.

Mm-hmm. Rarely ever. that like I need to know why. No. The same way the stereotype is Naspicks bad beats. I think that's a stupid stereotype that hip hop is just taking on. I don't know if you say too box. I don't know if he picked him, but he wrapped on a lot of bad beats though.

Yeah, he's had a 30 year career. It's going to fucking happen. And he put out a house once a year. He'll say that. He also, he also, okay. Take your time. This is weird. No, it's weird to say.

I interviewed him. And I asked him about that. About the beats. selection. Yeah. Actually, actually, he's one of my cover stories. One of my proudest moments. This was the source? Yeah. Yeah. Many moons ago sitting in the, uh, the spotted pig, his restaurant. We were like upstairs where no one was, me, him and Gabe from Def Jam. Shout to Gabe. Yeah, for real. Insane human being. I asked him why he did that. Why did you pick? Why did you pick bad beasts? Yeah. Like, I don't, I don't remember the exact way I

I've been to for that, by the way. I had to. I had to. I'm in a room. I can't be, I can't be biased. And I'm from Queens. You know, this is like the guy. Yeah, absolutely.

If I don't ask this question. You're not asking any question. You don't ask that one. Everybody else is at the office. What the fuck did you do? I'll never get another story again in my life. I'll never get a feature again in my life. So I asked him.

And his answer surprised me. Two questions I asked him, that his answer surprised me. One I asked him, like, why he got married. At the time he was married to Kellie. He said, all my answer. And he said, all my heroes have been married men. Everybody I've ever looked up to, it has been married men.

Besides the fact that I think my wife was made for me, all my heroes in life have been married men. Respect. I was like, okay. He started like rattling on Malcolm X, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All man, okay, got it. The beats thing. I was like, you know, the story is you pick bad beats.

What's up with that? And he goes, I want people to pay more attention to what I'm saying than what the beat sounds like. You can't ever think that I don't get offered or every beat under the sun, every producer under the sun. For sure. And I kind of gave him like a little side eye

and he said, think about it. I always give you one. I know what you want. Every album I give you at least one or two. I make it a point to do that. But I don't want the beat. He basically said, I don't want the beat to be more important

than what I'm saying. So I'm not picking like the same. super hillist beats, but I do that when it's time to. And he starts rattling off his albums and he's naming the tracks on those albums where the beat is crazy and he's going crazy.

He was like, but I'm not going to do that like every time. Whether you believe him or not, whether you believe him or not is irrelevant. Yeah, I mean, I'm not, I'm not mad at that because again, I never thought that Nause's beats were, you know, and every, like every track on every album was terrible, but there was some

joints like to me you know the the battle with him and jay i to this day i think ether is one of the worst beats i want to disagree there ever but the fact that he's on there going at jay kind of to what he's overlooked because it's like it's what he's saying if you go to youtube now and just type in ether instrumental without naz on it you would be like what the fuck did this guy even here in that studio how did this even make it on to adapt it's not finished but no disrespectful to Brown. No, not. Like, Ron, we fucking wrong brows.

He did, he got, like, he has classics. That's just an awful fucking beat for, in that moment is like, why did you, how did you land on that? Look fits right into the answer that he gave. Yeah. And it was effective. For sure. After he said that, his whole career just kind of like shifted over a little bit.

His whole discography, you look at it way different. You look at the songs where he's really saying some shit and those beats are kind of not the greatest that he could have found. Mm-hmm. But his whole thing to me was, do you really think I don't get those beats first? You think they don't send those to me? Yeah, but I'm just saying. All these producers are sending me that shit?

I definitely think he does. But I love Nah, as one of the, you know, one of my hip-hop heroes. But he's absolutely insane for passing on some of the shit that I know he's heard. Like, and then be like, nah, but you know what I'm saying? I really want to get off on this one. Okay. Because what I'm saying is going overshine the music. Did you think the hate me and I'll beat was fire?

It wasn't terrible. That's a great beat. Yeah, it wasn't terrible. But Nas got killed for doing that. Yeah. Like, he can't win for losing. If he went, even I'm on the side of, you owe me as fire. But Nas got killed for that.

Anytime he's went the route of the beats that people want him to do, he gets killed for it. Yeah, but I think he got killed more for, you owe me because you owe me is incredible. The hook and then genuine. It was just too much. It felt too industry. Too shiny. Two record, two record industry. There's like five entendras in that hook.

Like, y'all made this and said, like, oh, we got radio with this. Like, and I hate my rappers do that. But that's not fair because Jay did that a lot too. And he don't get killed for it. Every rapper does that. Jay got killed for what? I was young. Yeah, Jay got killed for a lot of joints he got.

Oh, I mean, most of volume one he got killed for her. Yeah, Sunshine. He had this shiny. By the way, I'm fine with it. Yeah, great good record. I love the record, but he got killed for that. Every rapper has to have, especially then. And you have to have that moment where it's like, okay, I'm in the music business now.

I have to kind of like adhere to what the labels are. saying they want and they need. His answer, his answer for doing, his answer for, oh me, when I asked them was, I wanted to show them that I can do what they do while they can't do what I do. I wanted to go in their world and show them I can do this whenever I feel like it. And you can't come in my world and do what I do. But your shit is so easy and this is so candy, I can go over here whenever I want, walk in your world, wipe my feet on your carpet and then walk right back out. and you can't follow me and go do the stuff I do. Again, his, the interview put a lot of things in perspective for me.

Yeah. And I mean, even with that, let's go with Naz's prime, 94 to 2002. Illmatic, it was written. I am Nostradamus, still mad at Godson. Yes, you can say Nostradamus wasn't the one, even though I think, comparing to Naz's catalog, yes, it's not it, but it's better than half of every rapper's first project ever. Where are their bad beats in everything I just named?

94 to 2002 tell me where there's bad beat You can't you can't even start with the first one That was the first super producer album That was like the original experiment A bunch of super producers get together with this Fucking prodigy And put together a perfect album It was written starts with the message

I don't have the I don't have the slander It was written that other people seem now I don't get I think I can make a case It's better than nomadic I've heard that argument before I don't agree I don't agree that argument. It has more replay.

Maybe it's just because Illmatic is like thriller. You've heard it so many times that you don't always go back to it. For whatever reason. I, what did I say? I'm not mad at the argument. But it's not better than it. Yeah, I don't agree, but I get it.

You're not even doing that. I get it. I get it. I am starts with New York State of Mind part two, which I could argue is better than the first one. Then to hate me now. It has, it has,

it has Naz's like on there. Like, what do we talk about with Naz and bad beats? He said, this is a stereotype that hip hop took on and because it sounded cool everyone kept going with it. I don't know about that because he knows. He knows. Because it's been a stigma.

But people always say, but nobody purposely did that. Nobody gives me the beats that are bad. What's a bad beat on Stillmatic? You're the man was probably the best beat of that year. No, but you know what though? Because second childhood is one of the best beats he's read. I don't understand what Mecca is saying, though,

in him asking Nas that. Got yourself a gun. Because now that you running off these titles, I could hear the beat and I'm like, if I didn't hear Nas rapping on that, What, I love that beat, though. And here we go. You see what I'm saying?

The ceiling is different when you start comparing when you have a rapper who you can only compare to himself. Okay, but what is a rapper's job when they go into the studio? It is to produce the best song that they can make. Right. So if this is what brings out the best naz and I can say this song is incredible, my ears for hip-hop is for the final product of the song. I'm not listening to Got Yourself a Gun and going, you know what?

I love this. but let me just go listen to the instrumental and decide this is okay. No, Nas took that beat, put his foot in it, and created an amazing song. That's the point of a rapper. I think that's one of the ones where he was saying, I always give you one. I think that's one, like you're naming the ones that he- Got yourself a gun smoking. You're the man, rewind, one mic, second child, destroy and rebuild, the flyest rule.

Name a bad beat. Again, I get what you're saying. This is a similar that everyone needs to stop saying about Nas. I get what you're saying. But if there are some of those beats, I put it like this, if you run those off, right? But then be like, yo, let me hear the shit you turned down when you was making this album.

Oh, I mean, but then you're going to be like, yo, you passed up on this. But then again, like. That's the difference. And we're not in the studio to know exactly which ones he's talking about. But to me, that's something that you can't prove and it's like, no, that beat we love,

maybe Nas wouldn't have done what was supposed to be done on that beat. I only, I only, I asked the question because of the stigma, I only back it up because he acknowledged it. But again, I only think he acknowledged it because he understands that we're comparing him to him. He's in different airspace.

Jay is only whack when you compare him to Jay. You can't compare a Jay to the landscape and say he's whacked. Okay, well, what about this dude? I mean, you know, I mean, when you start running into the artist where their name alone ends the argument, which is, I hear that a lot.

But what do you think about this? I mean, I'm not Nas, but when you start hearing shit, I mean, I ain't Jay. I mean, but that's Jay. When you start hearing that shit, we're now only comparing them to them. You don't compare him to anybody else. So Nas is lackluster facade, stigma is because they're comparing everything to him. They want more.

And when he switches the tone, when it's no longer the gritty, grimy sound of Illmatic, and it's the slick sound of it was written, ah come on man come on what you doing what they they want them to follow up a classic but then when when you have the generation that came in under under it was written well then the next one sounds kind of ah come on bring track masses back what you doing yeah bring primo back what you're doing how come you never did the album with pre you know all that shit catches up and that builds the stigma but the fact that he acknowledged it tells me that he knows he's turned down some shit yeah absolutely in order to give us the joint cities giving us.

But I don't disagree with you. Godson starts with Get Down. I love that track. Made you look is on that album. But that's one of them ones. He actually named that one. He was like, think about it. This one, this one, this one.

As you're rattling him off, I'm remembering him saying that one, this one. Like, would I love the I can beat in the studio? Probably not. But Nas's vision of that of what he was going to do with the kids on the hook and the message, yeah, that beat fits what he was supposed to do and made a classic song. And he also wanted you to hear what he was going to say. That's one of those message records.

Yeah. On the Look Back at it podcast. 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

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