New Rory & MAL - Checking In With Chance The Rapper

Episode Date: August 14, 2025

Chance The Rapper checks in Rory & Mal to talk about his upcoming album "Star Line", finding creative ways to connect with his fan base, the story behind the viral Carnival video, and his current relationship with Kanye West #volumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. The volume. All right, Roy, we are back. Joined again by a familiar face, friend of ours, friend of the studio, well, friend of the show, not the studio. It's been a while since we spoke to this gentleman. He has an album coming out this Friday.

Yes. And it's the first time in some years that he's putting something out. I think people are going to be happy to receive it. I listened to it the last two days. Music sounds incredible. music sounds great. Today we are joined by singer, songwriter, rapper, and when he's not doing any those things, he's saving lives on highways. Today we are joined by the legendary Chicago's own chance to rap. Thank you, man. That was one of those things I felt like was in the simulation

when you guys reminded him. He's like, remember when Chance saved somebody's life? I was like, I forgot all about that. That was the most random. I got told me random thing in the last movie. I'll just catching people. I got all types of random stories of me saving people. Remember that lady in the elevator? We just was at some shit, bro. We was just at some shit. We was at a haunted hotel. So we went to this haunted hotel. This lady was helping us, like, taking us to

the bottom of the bottom. It's like a real hotel. It's called the... What is that shit called? The Chateau Mama. You ever heard that? Chateau Mama. Wait, that's in LA, right? Yep, it's in L.A. You're the one where the girl died in the... I think hell of people died at this shit. I'm sorry. If this ends up being bad, we can take it out.

No, no. I think it's going to be fun. This is great. Death is great. But basically, basically we was, this lady was taking us downstairs to like, I think to leave. And we, and when we was waiting in the room, she like knocked on the door. So I'm like, I heard somebody knock. Let's go check. When I opened the door, the lady is literally getting crushed by elevator. That's one of them old elevators, too, like, not like a sensor.

It ain't no sensor on this joint. It's just, it's like, it was crushing her in the door. And I had to fucking use my Spider-Man strength to pull that shit off of her. But merch, I saved somebody. his life this year, like less than three months ago. That's one of those things in the plot in the movie. He goes to the lobby and that that elevator hasn't worked. Literally.

Literally. It was a ghost to the whole time. Literally. That's where I felt like. Or the lady had to tell him. She died like 30 years. Yeah. No, that's what I'm saying. She hasn't been.

That's one of those term large margins since you moments. I'm dead. That's hilarious. But it's good to see you, man. Last six years. Where have you been? It's so much. We feel like so much has happened.

As a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, person as an artist. I'm sure things are a lot different. But how you feel in the album is done is completed? I know for artists, that's like a journey and so. It feels good. But it's been a while for you six years, but you've worked on music. You've written music in the meantime. Yeah, I've been releasing with my fans. So six years is a long time. Every time I hear that, it sounds so crazy to me, but like so much of that time. It's a long time, but it's really not. It's not. It's what it is, though. I got kids telling me like, man, the last time you dropped, I was in grade school.

I'm a grandfather. Like, I'm a happy. It was like, so it does feel like a long time, especially in that, now that I'm getting closer to the release, I'm getting back to like that feeling of like,

you know, people just coming up to me in the street being like, yo, I'm excited for your project. And that shit, that's a great feeling. So I feel like, but I feel like in this time

from, you know, all the little like Lucy releases that I put out, all the art collaborations. We were in museums. We put on a festival in comedy.

for 52,000 people. We did a lot of things that were all still in line with this album and what the album talks about, what the album's promoting. And so, like, it feels like we were in, like, a hyperbolic time chamber, like, training hard as fuck and doing little side missions. But then, like, now the pop out, like, now people see it. And it's like, damn, he just, damn near came off a mountain. Like, he just, like, he just came back and with this.

I feel like the writing, y'all heard a lot of the subjects. but even the, I think it takes a few listens to here, but like a lot of the literary references, a lot of the like, you know, poetic references, like, especially for, I think some of my fans that are like in the literature or in the writing or in the poetry, like you'll see that I'm pulling from a lot of areas

that I wasn't pulling from in my earlier works. So I feel like this six years has been me, like, doing push-ups for six years, right? I mean, I think it's by far the best rapping you've ever done. I mean, music is subjective, but as far as just rapping, it's definitely the best wrapping. Thank you, man. Rapping you've done. Was the six years, was that a conscious decision or that's just how life liked?

No, I definitely wanted to be less down than that, for show. But I feel like what I was trying to do was I was trying to create moments. There was a, I feel like I look at it in like three sections. So there was the film journey, which like, and all of these, like, they like, you know, permeate throughout the whole thing. But I was learning a lot about cameras and like, getting to like figure out how I wanted to see myself in my music because like music videos is like the best way to get to people it don't got necessarily a huge financial return on investment

but in terms of like how people hear music for the first time a lot of times it be on Instagram you know what I'm saying the other side to it is hearing it in the club but like you're going see that shit on TikTok you're going to see it on Instagram you're going to see a music video before you just hear it here you know what I'm saying so I focused a lot on like learning how to use a camera how to you know direct how to edit how to cinematography is like the big thing that I'm like really into now is like learning how to light people learning how to like how to like framing and composition so I spent a long time doing that that's when I started doing my first I guess you could call singles for Starline was self-directed

videos for like singles and stuff and then I feel like around like 2022 23 I started focusing a little bit more on like how do I like make big moments for these singles so I started working with museums. I started working with painters and like, you know, people across different mediums to figure out how, like I just said, that visual element, how do I make it so that people can feel this music beyond what I'm writing? Because it's very dense verses. Like, even what people like on their first list. Like, you know, my family and my friends have lived with this music for a long time. Some of these songs have been around since 2020 or 2021, I mean. And they'll tell me five years later, like, bro, was you saying this on this song? I'm like, yeah, they like,

I feel you now. So I think it's like, it's very compacted. So it's like I started working with artists and like different people to just understand visuals a little bit better than me on how to like, you know, have a more layer conversation on something I'm trying to talk about. And then I feel like just this this final little last piece of it has been, you know, really just like, I guess figuring out how to bring my fans in. So I started working with what they call sensory experiences. So like doing AV or audiovisual experiences where I use like projectors and lighting. And you know, I'll be having my raps on the screen now. Like that's my literal visual language.

Like putting people in a room literally with my words, with lights, with a sound system that me and my friends designed, headphones on a beam bag and like just go through this music I'm working on. And it was like, I'm going to send y'all some video of the shit. It's actually crazy. I'm so good at it now that it's like I'm literally Walt Disney. Like I could put some shit together. That's a Chicago thing.

Sorry. Yeah, I just realized how much I said that. I promised you I was not thinking about that. I'm thinking of this. Like, girl, I'm thinking of this. You're about saying it's these jobs. No, no, I understand. Damn, I just, that's so crazy.

I promise you I was not thinking about folks on. No, I see y'all DNA. It's funny. But I'm saying like, on some like, building an experience for somebody, creating a world and a context around these things that I'm making up in my head. And then I'm pulling from real life. But like, Starline, now that you've heard it, like, I wish that it's like, once this project comes out, there's going to be like probably around like 1,500, I think is probably around

the amount of people that I showed this experience in the past two years. Like, there's going to be like 1,500 people that come out that's like, y'all should have been the writings on the wall. That was the name of the thing that I was doing. It was like, it was like a little secret thing. I did it in New Orleans, D.C., Chicago a couple times, like L.A., like a bunch of random cities, and I just, I got this texting list, and I text like, you know, it would be like 4,000 or 5,000 fans in a city that signed up for this little thing and tell them, you know what I'm saying, slide through. And then I put on this whole, like, real experience that nobody's expecting with the new music, with everything.

And at the end, it's like the way that people feel about it. Obviously, the music is good too, but this whole thing around it. It's like, it's a 360 experience. It's like fucking crazy. How did it differ with having, like, in real life, direct to consumer feedback on your music? That shit is like, you really can't get it nowhere else. I'd start looking down the camera because I know as rappers and, like, creatives watching it. Like, you got to go to the people.

Like, you've got to go to the people. You can never get a real understanding of how people feel from, you know, analytics or social media or nothing. Like people come and tell you a story about their little sisters, life getting saved by your music or some, you know, like their baby being born, like whatever. Like people have stories that they can't share with you really in detail through social media or through a view or a like or a comment. Another subconscious question. Do you think you went that route based off just a specific part of Twitter that reacted to the big day the way they did on the timeline? 100%. I'm so like,

let me not go so far in time just to start a run. Let me actually answer the first question first. Like, yes, because I think like my shit has always been grassroots. Like, I really was a street team, nigga. Like, I know how to like work a project because I've been doing this since I was 14.

So my relationship to the fans and that the way that looks to the outside, I know the value of both of those things. Like, I know the value. the value of like having a person that will silently say, I love you and I'll buy a hat. And I know the value of the, of the perception of people seeing a lot of people wearing a hat. Like they both have their own separate values. And I saw what was like, you know, this, whatever, you know what I'm saying?

I seen what was happening. And I'm like, I need to tap in with the people that support and show them like, you know, give them a pride. Because that's also a thing. Like, if you love an artist, right? Especially from a young age, a lot of times you kind of like, you start to feel connected to them in a way that's like, I represent this person. They represent me. So when you see an artist that you fuck with getting trash, like even if it's not conscious, subconsciously it makes you dissociate and it makes you. And sometimes it could like you have like an actual emotional reaction to it.

And so it's like if I love this artist a lot. and I love their music and then I see like people are trashing it whatever that next music is I want to see people love it right you know that matters to me

separate from how much I love it I could love it just as much as I love the last thing but I want to see other people love it and so I can't control how whatever their perception of what other people see is but I can like bring them in

and so that's what I was really like doing was like you know these would be small rooms like 50 people sometimes 80 people. We did some in New York. Some low-key ones in New York at the Chocolate Factor. Those are like our biggest ones.

And they was like, I think like maybe 80, 85 to 90 people. But it's like intimate. I spend like some time afterwards and I'm just talking to people and I'll give them these composition notebooks

like the same notebooks I'd be writing in and let them like write notes or, you know, tell me their favorite songs. A lot of them will write me letters. And then I found out a lot of my fans for whatever.

They're writing this during the session. They're sitting in the session. They're sitting in a beanbag. basically laying down. They got headphones on, right? And in the room, don't nobody steal my design. I've been doing this for a while.

I've already, I'm almost back to this. It's okay, it's okay. But they know where this mind is. Like, I got more ideas too. Right. The room is, like, surrounded by these subs, these big ass subs.

So it delivers these lows that give you vibration to your seat that makes it feel like, you know, on a roller coaster or something. So that mixed with the visuals, the AV, text, I'm sorry, the text, the lyrics, like, it puts you in, like, really inside the music. And, like, there's no, like, loss of frequency in terms of how I'm giving it to them, like, what I'm saying.

But it's also, like, a real visceral, like, reaction to, like, a bass drop being felt in your seat and in the floor, like, you're at a concert, but while still getting all the high-end frequency that the headphones give. That's how I saw the last fast and furious. You said you saw the last fast and furious with some headphones on? No, but the seats was moving in. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not that, I ain't got it to that level. I'm going to make a roller coaster at some point. That sounds like my sound journey.

Yeah, no, definitely. That's exactly what it is. But so now you give them the notebook and you take the notebook back at the end and you read all everybody's. I asked them to tear out whatever they want to leave me with and keep whatever they want to keep for themselves. So, like, you know, sometimes people write personal things. Like, I don't always tell them I'm a collected either.

So at the end, I'll be like, hey, if there's any note that you wanted to give me, you could tear it out. But I want you to still keep journaling because a lot of my fans is creatives too. So like, there'll be, I was just saying like so many niggas. I'm telling them write me notes. It's hell of beautiful portraits and shit that they're drawing in the dark, like in the room. Because they, for whatever reason, a lot of my fans is being on some creative. That's a different level of connection to your audience, though. No, it's nothing like anything like I see in the market, but it is like in the line of like how I feel like a lot.

lot of my fans feel connected to me. It's a little more personal than, you know, it's a lot of people that just fuck with me from afar on some like, oh, I like his raps, but a lot of people know something else about me or has some other connection to me or felt some, like I said, like this permeating thing from a song where they were like, oh, that's what you be on. That's what I be on. Right. And then I'll just feel that love when I'm walking around in New York or walking around

in any city and people like, yo, they don't know I got a fucking whole CD about to come out, but they just get that love, love, brother, like whatever you know what I'm saying, we support type of show. So now six years, it's been six years. Six years ago, I remember Rory and myself, we kind of was a thing is, is chance really independent? We had to go through that whole thing. That was like the chatter.

But now, with all of this that you're doing, this is really an independent thing. Yeah. And you're funding this and you have all these ideas. As a creator, how frustrating is it at times when you have these ideas and these thoughts in your head? You want to get them out, but you're independent. And it's like, we know things cost. But I have this visual.

Once you have a vision, is it like I'm doing this no matter what? Or do you have to kind of call an audible every now and then and adjust to the. No, it's like, we just go. And like, that's just how it's been since I first started. Like, I love, I guess I just love being happy. So I'll invest in anything that's going to make me happy. That's like, you know what I'm saying, in terms of family. family, personal things.

But like the music, like, I always seen, I've almost damn near always seen money as being for my pursuit of music or to be flipped so I can have money to pay for the things, other things in my life that I need to take care of. But that flip is going to happen through music. So I feel like there's never really been a point where I was like, oh, like, I mean, I'll get that. That's not a good investment because I just got to look at my actual life, like all my money is one money basically. So it's like the it's it definitely like what I have is going to make a

decision and like what I can do. But I also say this all the time like I go broke all the time. I go broke and get it back because also I believe in Jesus. But like there's like a certain you know investment itself that I think every artist that really loves this shit feels. You know know what I'm saying? And I think the only time that people don't is like, you know, we do be naturally creative. So some people just fall into rap. Like they be naturally creative. They fall into it. They see it as a business opportunity to do other things. And there's no fault to it. But then there's also people that's like was doing talent shows since they was a kid. And I'm like, you know what I'm saying? Like that's where I come from. I come from open mics. Talent shows being a nigger that

wanted to, you know, to share my art and felt like it was important for me to be in front of them. Yeah. I hear that. So, I mean, was the approach different with this one based on any feedback? Not only with what you were doing with your fans, but also the perception of people that maybe aren't even a chance to rapper fan, but they are a social media fan and will just add on to the mob mentality of when something catches. You know, I'm going to be honest, like, I feel like content wise, it didn't. I think it's something that, like, weighs on my mind sometimes. you know because like I'm a I'm a front face in person like I'm a like I've made the decision even if it was at a young age I made the decision that I wanted to be famous so how people feel about me kind of does determine like how I can move through the world and like how I feel on a daily basis when it comes to the rap I feel like I and I and I think it shines through but it'll also like I'm just making me say my point basically like I feel like a lot of the content and I feel like a lot of the

on the record is more, you know, about the world at large. It's not a lot of like, there's like one song kind of where it's like, y'all tweaked on me. But like, and even in that, it's still very like looking internally and looking at how, like, so there's a song, the song is called Speed of Love. It's me and Jasmine Sullivan. And on the song, I talk about like being a literal kid who got famous. Like, we don't say it, but I'm basically a child's. I think anybody that gets on, like, from the age of 17. Not saying I was even on, but I was touring with Childish Gambino as a kid.

Like, I had my first legal drink in Canada, like 19. So I'm like, you know, I'm having hell of access, hell of excess, like just having my way, shit on the flow. And I'm, but I'm a kid. You know what I'm saying? Like, I still haven't, like, and then, you know, you add on having a baby, you add on, like, all these other things. So on the song, I'm really just talking about, like, how all children, in this first verse, all children, but especially the ones that went to do talent shows

and open mics and wanted to be famous and kids like Bieber that was playing drums as a kid, like we're searching for love. Like we really want love, probably more outwardly and proudly and openly than the average person. And because we get so much adoration or adulation, like we, one of those words is wrong. So sorry.

I don't know which one it is. Okay. But because we get this other form that's like, it is love, but it's a different kind of love. Like, it can like, it presents challenges for us just in like interacting and operating and how we present ourselves. And sometimes it's like it's not a boo-hoo story, but like just because of capitalism, just because of like consumerism just because of how we present to these cameras. Like people look at us like trading cards. Like our value goes up and down based on our takes and our most recent song. And so, like, within that, like, you feel a certain, like, you feel commodified or, like, dehumanized a little bit, especially if it's negative.

Like, when it's positive, then it's like. So good. Yeah, it's love. It's like, you know what I'm saying? Even if you get tired of the meet and greets and tired of everything, it's like, I got to be grateful. I got to be grateful. But when niggas start saying a lot of things about you or you feel like these niggas are ungrateful. It's not even ungrateful.

It's like, who it was served for a nigga that's like, like I said, like if you really grow up in it, then it's like, well, what's wrong with me? You know what I'm saying? And I feel like that's something I had to work through. So overall, to answer the question, I feel like a lot of the songs are still pointed. Like, I'm on this starline journey. And when you listen to it, you hear the radical, you hear the self-determination. You hear self-love. You hear a lot of those things that are like within that, like, that journey that I've been.

push into my fans and like the story I'm trying to tell. But then there's still like it's and that vulnerability will interweave and be like, okay, these are places that I fucked up. These are places that I want to grow. These are things that or this is how y'all tweaked on me. Like this is where like even to my friends. That same song, Speed of Love has like a whole verse about my friends and where they chose to how they chose to use their voices or to like support me in certain times. And like to me, this is the best place to do it. Even though it. I don't be saying names in it, but even though it's public, it's like sometimes, especially for the creative, like, you got to put that shit on wax. Like, you've got to, like, you got to not just express yourself and not just record yourself, but you got to publish.

Like, got to put it out. I mean, you tied in with the Badu quote on that record. Yeah. How's the exact bar go with that? Man, Erica Badu, one of my favorite poets, favorite lyricist, favorite, obviously vocalist, performers, everything. She has a piece that she did on Deaf Poetry Jam called Friends, Fans, and Artists Must Meet. And at the beginning of each verse, she says that same line.

Friends, fans, and artists must meet. Which one are you? Which one are me? And the first verse or first section of the poem, she talks about, she says it from the perspective of a fan. And they're like, man, I just want to meet her after her show. I loved her new song. It was dope.

Ooh, like, I hope she don't forget about me when she gets so big. The second verse is from the perspective of her friends. And her friends on it is like, this bitch wants us to carry her luggage. She late for all the trips. She got all this money. Like, she ain't going to have no money when her shit don't sell.

Like, it's like, and then the third verse, my favorite one, she like flips the notepad in the air and she's speaking from her perspective or from the perspective of an artist. And she's like, niggas don't know. Like, when after taxes come, I'd be back broke trying to figure shit out.

People don't know the struggles I go through just trying to write a verse. that will appeal to all these different people that you feel responsible for. Like, they don't know all of these things, and this is my perspective. But I just, I always loved that piece since I was a kid.

And so, like, that really drove the, like, that was my closest connection to how I felt was like, you know, I have to address different things that I feel important to talk about. Not necessarily just the things that people think I need to, you know. Like I got a, like I said,

I got a lot of fans that's like, you better put out a record that's stepping on their necks and it's like yeah this is stepping on their next for sure yeah yeah yeah it's also like I'm doing it how I want to do it and I'm talking about what I want to talk about right yeah and I mean I think you're addressing what a lot of people were curious to hear six years later but also on back to the go you address some shit that I feel like the world has been wanting to know and what's fucked up is I had to make peace with this too that because we are in the public eye I put my personal life out there so people are allowed to ask me about shit where I'm like that's none of your

fucking business to begin with but it is but it is I made the choice of even putting it out there so how could I react to somebody being like well we're invested now yeah you you address the divorce everything that's happening what was that transition like even it's a transition still now like it's like we are you know we're young like you know maybe not to the Yans but we young like you know what I'm saying we I was I was 21 when Kensley when my first kid was born very and you know what I'm saying so like we we like you know are growing and we just two people that like definitely love each other and definitely I feel like I'm

explaining it to my kids right now like listen it's not your fault I didn't think it was me and most but it's but it's like the reality of it is is like everybody you know deals with their family different the way the family I come from is very, very close. Yeah. Like very, very tight. And, you know, it's very important for us and for her and her family for us to be tight. So we, you know, we still travel together.

We still like. Still family. Yeah, we still a family forever. Like, and it's just a, you know, it's a different format of it. But like, we've been through every format. We didn't get married until I was 26. So, you know what I'm saying? Like, we've been through these things.

And like, I ain't going to act like it's not tough. I'm going to act like it's perfect and we just was like we shook hands and dipped. Yeah, yeah. It was like... What's the toughest part about it, though? It's weird. I think everything is like the same level of toughness when it comes to like situationally. I think the toughness is that it's a reality.

I think that's the toughest part is that you might feel like you're over it and you're not over it. Or you might, you know, be used to a certain pattern of operating. And because it don't work like that, like, you have to like allow yourself grace to deal with that and operate in reality. And so I feel like it's a, it's a, it's not an every, I don't want to say it's an everyday thing. Like every day we get into it or every day we good. It's really just like, you know, we, we try and always remember the importance of like supporting each other, loving each other. You know, not just for the sake of our kids, but for the sake of each other's sanity for like the fact that we have respect for you.

Y'all grew up together. Yeah. I mean, y'all grew up together. And we, like, it's like if you knew Chicago, like the way Chicago works, and I hate to say shit like high school, I sound like the nigga that would be like, I was a quarterback. Yeah, yeah. But, like, everybody still know each other.

Yeah. We all still go to the same places. Like, yeah. I see her like at least every other week. And that's what, as a nigga that travels a lot, you know what I'm saying? So I don't have the same. I don't want to like make it seem like it's so easy because I don't have the same story or the same relationship. but I know people that they do not even recognize

that they BM or they BD is alive, you feel? Yeah. And that's not how we, that's just not how we move. Yeah, I mean, even you're saying we have to accept the reality. Like, shit, I'm co-parenting now, and it's been a tougher breakup just because there is no out of sight, out of mind. Like, then you start out of reality, maybe I'm not over this, or maybe I like it for the family.

Like, that shit is a very difficult thing to go through with a breakup. Because other ones, yeah, they're tough, but you can just like block the person and just not see them. No. We got to talk every goddamn day. Yeah, man. And it has, it'll drain you if it's not a good,

at least co-parenting. That's the thing. It's like kids is for the rest of your life. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, it's not even the rest of their life. You know what I'm saying?

God willing. It's like, it's the rest of your life. You will be connected no matter what emotionally to this being, physically to this being. You always. So like, if you and then y'all in a Venn diagram y'all both connected to the same thing y'all plug in it so

I think we both are I'm not saying we the most emotionally mature people but we both I think at least have that vantage point that allows us to never go too far you know what I'm saying in any direction and and I'm grateful that I got somebody that is like that you know to their vantage point this is family yeah it's the exact example you mentioned on that record as well that you felt sometimes like an absentee. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's like and I love the wordplay on the song. Like there's

so many good ways to like you know talk about a home or like going back home. And in that verse I guess like I there's so many like I think like everybody like I say everybody operates differently. They think of things

like the importance of certain things differently. Like man I miss my kids right now. Like this time going out of town because of how much work I've had, I just had them for the last two weeks. Like, the amount of time that I had to lean on my mom, like, it, like, and I ain't going to cry, but I'm just saying, like, that shit, just thinking about it, it makes me feel away. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

But, like, they're both super emotionally intelligent kids, and I had a whole long conversation. Yeah, it is. I'm so blessed that I got girls because they are very, very smart. Yeah. And I had, like, a long conversation with my oldest story yesterday. She was just like completely understand. She was just like, we like less. She's like, I don't want to talk to my mom.

Like, I'm going to figure out like we could do something when you get back type of shit. And I think there's a weight that I believe is attributed to anything dealing with like developmental, you know, going like certain things happening in my kids life that I don't want to miss. A first day of school. A birthday, a birthday party, you know, anything. And just in working, I miss a lot of stuff. That doesn't include my personal life. That doesn't include, you know, now, the now of like we got to take turns. Yeah.

And sometimes against that family dynamic, it feels like, you know what I'm saying? Like, give me my kids back type shit. And so that creates a separation of itself too. Yeah. I mean, you did mention your personal life too. and we can bring it back to a little light because I'm gonna cry as well. You did have like definitely a dad trip

where you were off the map. Josh, do we have that video? This was one of those personalized, like dad needs a weekend. But look at the walk, I think you just rewind it one time? Is this a how? Is that carnival where? Look at me, look at the camera?

Yeah. And then look. Oh shit. And then look at the look off like I didn't see the camera. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like this may affect my home life a bit. When this came out, I defended you online because I was like, we definitely defended you on this.

I said, well, it's the culture. It's carnival. He's entrusted in the culture. This is what you do at corner. Yeah. Here's the truth. I, regardless, I was tripping. Yeah.

I was tripping. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Why do you think he was tripping? Why do you think he was tripping? I don't think he was tripping. No, I think he was tripping. I think I was tripping because nobody knew that me and my wife was separated.

You know what I'm saying? So I have her looking dumb. You don't want to let you. Don't have your lady looking at. I'm sorry. Whether she's your BM, your wife, your girlfriend, your best friend, don't let your lady look stupid. For some reason I thought that was after there was the announcement. No, that was the big deal about it where everybody was tripping was like, is this

appropriate behavior for somebody that's married. Okay. That look off wasn't like, oh shit, I'm caught. It was like, damn, like, I'm putting our business out there basically. It was my birthday. Okay. And I was, I'm not even going to say anything else. But I'm saying like, it was my birthday.

Yeah. I'm lit. I'm with all my guys as carnival. That was my 30th birthday. And I'm not trying to make excuses. I'm just saying like, I'm painting the scene for you. Like, but basically, yeah. I mean, that is, that is, you know, Caribbean culture that is like, you know, a thing.

But like, at the end of the day, like, I feel like I was glad when that shit was over. because my phone was blowing up the next day about that shit. Yeah. I mean, I feel like your man that was holding you up on the dub, that's classic move. Maybe he should have been grabbing phones. Yeah,

no, it's carnival. That's the thing. Yeah, you can't grab phones on the phone. It's like everybody was lit. Everybody's dancing. That was probably the, like, the cleanest wine I caught.

Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, y'all are lucky they censored the other wines. I was catching. Yeah, when the sun went down. You know what I'm saying? But it's like, but the truth is like I said, like don't have anybody looking stupid. And I went out there for fun. Like we, I think at the end of the day, like, I do wish that that shit didn't happen that way.

You know what I'm saying? And I wish that I was, you know, more protective of her. Yeah. But like, I think it's, you know, it's in the past. That's the reality. That's part of it's like you deal with realities. go through like all of these different decisions that get you every single decision that we all made got us to sit on these couches right now.

So it's like, okay, like I got to deal with whatever comes with that. And also like do whatever I can to like make up for that. And also I got to like, I can't like make it seem like, oh, I got to build a fucking time machine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, what was that conversation like? Because nothing's worse than like, especially your 30th birthday. Like you just start phone, just start ringing like that. You don't even know the video's up, just phone blowing up.

No, it's like, really it's like your, I got a lot of people that love me. Like, and a lot of people that love me, but don't necessarily know everything that's going on in my life. So, like, it's mainly like friends, family, team, press. Yeah. Like, everybody hitting my own, like, yo, this shit going viral. Yeah. Like, you got a wild. I know it's your birthday, naga.

you're supposed to just catch the wine don't smack it yeah yeah yeah fuck is it doing and but like you know the end of the day they're going in man

yeah I'm 32 now you know what I'm saying yeah I'm sorry listen listen when it came out I was like listen

man he's at carnival this is what goes on this is what happens and everybody was like nah he wow the women was having he wild for that and I'm just like

I get it but it's carnival You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I feel the same way, but this is where I believe double standards exist. If it was flipped and my girl did that, it was like, no, but it's Carnival. I'd be like, you fucking crazy. No, but double standards is real. We know that.

I feel like there's always going to be gender wars because there's two genders. Oh, sorry, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, all right, let's take a step back. There's a Republican. I knew you was a Republican. Let's take a step back. That's our clip. That's going to lead the episode. Let's take a step back.

Let's take a step back. I knew he was a Republican. Let's take a step back. Let's take a step back, okay? What I'm trying to say is that the CIA is trying to cause the vision. Yes. My brother. Yes, absolutely.

You know what I'm saying? Yo, it's so funny how you say that and you catch it so like, wait, whoa. I didn't mean that. I didn't mean it. I don't even say the word gender often. So I was like, once I heard myself talking, I was like, what am I talking about? You know what I'm talking about? What I'm talking about?

What I'm talking about? In your relationship, there was two genders. That's what you were getting at. What I was saying is like, No matter what, if something happens with some celebrities, there's going to be a lot of people that tag onto the conversation in pushing whatever their belief or stance on something is. And even whatever happened is going to be presented to you

by the blogs or whatever Instagram pages or whatever in a way to make you have to have a, you know, hot or cold opinion on what's going on. And so sometimes I think the people that's involved in those stories don't even, like we don't take the time or give ourselves the grace to realize like, shit not really about me. It's about niggas wanting to go get

go catch a wine at somewhere else like this shit don't got nothing to do with me but unfortunately I'm tied into this conversation now and it's going to you know it'll only last as long as I keep talking about that shit. So I kind of got that you know

yeah it happens drugs you know what I'm saying? Did I do that I mean listen if you got to get called doing something might be a carnival so you've been you've been a You've been writing. What is your relationship like today with Kanye? Because you didn't put nothing out album-wise in the last six years,

but you've been writing a lot. You've been working a lot specifically with Kanye. Where's the relationship like today with Ye? Like, where do y'all stand? Do you still speak to them often? You still work with them? Are there any sessions left over any music that came from those sessions that are on this album? No, there's nothing from those sessions on this album.

There was one that could have been raw. But no, there's not any on this album. And I was going to say, so honestly, the best policy, I haven't talked to him in a long time. Okay. He's one of the most influential people in my music. You know what I'm saying? He was at my wedding.

You know, our kids have hung out together. So, like, you know, I always love Kanye. Yeah. And but just being honest, I haven't talked to him in a while. I feel like I've been hell of busy. I'm working on shit. He's obviously been busy.

He's been working on shit, too. So like, you know what I'm saying? Like, nah, but also like, I don't know. I'll be trying not to take opportunities to like this motherfuckers or like add too much to the story. So like chances, whatever. No, genuinely just want to know what y'all is. I have to each other. I haven't talked to them in a long time, but like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, that's just, that's people. Yeah. I mean, would that be a conversation you'd want to have once. you know, everything gets a little less busy after the release and a conversation. So the way that I think about my world is like I'd be thinking about my day. So like what I got to do that day and what I'm working on for the next two weeks, maybe six months. But more likely what I'm just thinking about that day.

Yeah. There's be a lot of shit going on. So my relationships and how I view people as friends and stuff is just have I loved this person and have they ever like, you know, willfully and intentionally? betrayed me. And so I got friends that I haven't talked to in five or six, seven years. Right. And so it's not like I'm anticipating some conversation, some like thing where it's like,

all right, now it's my time to fix you and tell your ass what you've been tweaking on them. No shit like that. You're not John Legend. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's one of my, that was one of my co-hosts of the voice. You know what I'm saying? Shut up to folks too. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? John Legend, we're trying to fix Kanye through Twitter. You got his number. That ain't going to work. Yeah, that ain't going to get it. That ain't going to get it. Like, you know his address. You can just go to the crib, man.

Yeah, just pull up. Just pull up. I'll let you man. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what they got going on. I'm also a lot younger than them niggas. Like, you know what I'm saying? So I feel like there's also, like, different ways that people can even have friendships

because we're not necessarily peers. You know what I'm saying? Like, we, you know, like, I've, my first, like, album that I consciously wanted to have was the college dropout. So I have a different reverence for him or just understanding of like how my life went and how it influenced things I do. I think most rappers got a rapper that was their first album and probably from their city. You know what I'm saying?

So imagine if yours was Kanye West. Right. So and imagine if you worked with them and imagine all that shit. So it's like for me, I think I just begin that, you know, I let people be people. I always going to have my own opinions and I'm going to always state my opinions. You know what I'm saying? Not necessarily on camera usually, but like, well, like, you know, for the most part, I'm going to just, I'm just be me. I'm going to let people be them.

And so, no, there's not like a time where, like, I'm like, man, I got to make sure I hit up Kanye before I put this album out or after I put this album out or anybody. You know what I'm thinking about, like, who's in the rack? Like, who am I going to hang out with today? Who's going on? What business do I have to do today is more my, like, in-law, I guess. Now, listening to the album, I was happy to hear Vic, Vic Minto on that one of the project. Because that was one of the guys that was going to ask you about, like, what's your relationship? Like, obviously, y'all working together.

Yeah. But over the years, this kind of been, like you said, I don't see, you have friends that you haven't spoken to in five, six years. Yeah. Was that what it was with Vic? Vic is different because me and Vic really, really, really grew up together. Yeah. Really did a lot of, like, first time Vic was in a studio and maybe my second time ever being in a studio, first time ever actually, it be in my session.

was together, like rapping together as 14 year olds. So like we super know each other. So like we, us falling out, like we didn't been jumped together. Like we got like this really my niggas. So I think of, I feel like our relationship, we randomly used to get into it. Now we're both grown. We both got kids. Like it's a different dynamic and a different sense of urgency and understanding like, oh, my

success is really your success and your success is really my success. success, like in a positive way. Like, we used to just, you know, naturally we... A lot of people would never admit that, though. That's dope that you just said that. We, it's like, it's true. Like, we, like, when Vic is, when people are finally thinking of Vic, they finally thinking of me.

And when they finally think of me, they finally thinking of Vic. And we know each other so well, been in so many of the same after school programs. And just being honest, like, and I've said this before, like, a lot of things that happened for me came from a snowball effect of being a, um, a roadie for kids these days. Vic used to be in a band called kids these days in 2012. And really, no, before that, when we were in high school, it's like 2010, 2011, 2012.

There was a band called kids these days. And it was Vic. Nico Segal, who's like one of my producers, one of my best friends still to this day. Liam, everybody. It's nine people in this band. So I can shout out everybody. Macy, shout out Macy, everybody.

Greg, who's still, you know what I'm saying, plays drums for me and is one of my producers. But we all grew up together. they started getting on. They was like on Conan O'Brien. They was doing South by Southwest. We in high school, by the way. You know what I'm saying?

So like Vic used to let me come and like help set up shit, but then he had pulled me on stage for a verse for a song that I wasn't even on their recorded version of, but I'll come and do a verse. And I got, you know, my first person that I worked with, who was my publicist, he was their publicist. He saw me perform and he suggested me go on tour as a, as a filling out opener for, Donald Glover. And that really took a lot of things off. So Vic put me in position in a lot of ways when we were younger to like have big moments. And, you know, and I did the same thing for him.

But then we would also have like little moments where like, you know what I'm saying? I don't know. We just like we'll snake each other, I guess. Like just being honest. Friendship. We're just snakes. And good balance of you do something for me. I'll do something for you when I'm hotter at the moment. You out of the moment. Well, not snake shit. Because friends don't do snake shit too. Well, we niggas. You know what I'm saying? Like we was like, we like also you gotta know like I'm the you know I'm saying I was a I'm really from Chicago and I really used to just be running around so like we like in terms of homies doing snake shit like you know what I'm saying like Chicago is the king of that shit like you're saying like

for real so like I'm just saying like it's it's just about like how you grow through that shit And what, like, I guess ultimately decisions you make. So there were times where we wasn't really on the same page. We wasn't talking as much. And then really, I would say around 2022, into 2022, me and Vic started getting closer, started recording together more and doing different stuff. And who reached out to who? I reached out to Vic. What happened was now I'm remembering everything.

It's so crazy. I had a dinner where I invited all my people that I have supported me. in Chicago that are like real people that I've known since I was a kid but have, you know, also got successful. Yeah. Joe Fresh Goods. My home girl, Mary McKean, we were on Salt Shit. We were all kids in the shit.

Joe's a little bit older than us. But like we all like kind of, you know, around, not to tune my horn, but around the time between ass rap and color and book, Chicago, you know what I'm saying? And that's also because of so many artists, you know what I'm saying, releasing at the same time. But in this time period, a lot of artists and a lot of like, adjacent, you know, you know, creatives all had this big surge. And we all, you know, grew from that. And so I called up all the people that I knew I had worked with that had supported me in

the past and was like, y'all, I'm about to start working on a project. It's crazy that that was five years ago now. But one of the people that I reached out to was Vic because it's like I do my best verses when I know I have to go against you on a song. And I would love to like just have your discipline. What Vic has that I don't necessarily always have is he's a very discipline. This nigga meditates. Like he does certain things that's like since we were kids, that was just always weird to me.

And when now we old, I'm just being honest. Now we're older. And now I'm like, I wish I had that discipline. And so me and Vic started like we would take trips out to LA together and just like be at this house that I was running there and just be making songs, making songs. So my newest single tree is from a session in like 2022 with Smino, where Smino came through the crib and kicked it with me and Vic, brought his producer groove. They just played through some beats. And me and Vic is just like pick beats, like pick beats and write, pick beats and right. We grew up in this program called Young Chicago Authors when we was kids, and we used to have prompts.

And you basically come to the after school program, you get to chill for a second. And then they gather everybody at this table and they like, okay, these are the two prompts for today. It's either, you know, speak from the viewpoint of, you know, a chair that got left in the attic or, you know, tell us your deepest fear. And those are weak-ass prompts. I'm not a real teacher, you know what I'm saying? But, like, we grew up in this program where we used to have 15 minutes to write either a poem or a rap or whatever to this thing and then get on stage in front of our peers and

have to spit that shit. And so Vic brought it back to that, really, like, Vic was like, we need to do props. Like we need to be, and I'm not 100% correct on that. That's Vic and Ajumonae, who was also in a lot of those programs with me. So we just spent time, like, writing. And then the thing that really changed everything was at the end of that year, when I was first starting to kind of just like I was having trouble, you know what I'm saying?

Like personal life, like, just going through things. I had Vic because he's, Vic is Ghana. He's half Ghana. So he's been going to Ghana since we were kids. And now, I don't know if y'all know, but like Ghana's like popping. Ghana kind of looks like, you know what I'm saying? It's like it's like they got some shit going on.

So it's like I'm seeing, I'm seeing bro is in Africa doing. And that's back when my mind was like Africa. You know what I'm saying? Like now I'm much more educated. I understand a lot of things I didn't understand. But I'm like, damn, me, Africa lit as fuck. Yeah. Like, and I'm here going through depression or whatever the fuck this shit feels like.

And I just hit him like, bro, I just need to come out there. Like, and so I went out there just me, no security. me and my homie Peter, Cottontail, who produces most of my music. Went out there, Dolow, like, three days from when he said yes. Popped up, and that really, like, shaped a lot of the project. It was other outside factors. My grandmother having a phone call with me that made me, like, really understand a lot of, like, my purpose as a writer or who I, what lineage I come from, you know what I'm saying,

meeting. But a lot of the things that happen in Ghana that even, like, connected to my grandmother, Like, if I didn't go out there with Vic, like, a lot of the direction came from that. Like, the use of visual arts, the connecting the diaspora, the, you know, the, you know, I learned right before I got out there that my family had a history of Garveyites and people that follow Marcus Garvey. And they was all on some, like, on some black star shit. And so when, you know, and I fuck with Black Star with most deaf and quality, but I don't know nothing. I didn't learn nothing from that shit. Right.

I was hearing that as a kid. So I really didn't know what they was talking about. And right before I went to Ghana, my grandmother called me and had this long talk with me about how important it is to tell the truth about our histories. And don't wait until my daughters are too old to, like, give them the, you know, some of the harsh realities of the world and just like this whole thing. And then I'm like, when did you get so radical? She was like, well, I used to, you know what I'm saying, be with Stokely Carmichael, and I used to be with this and I used to be with that. I'm like, damn. And she's like, oh, you don't know, like going all the way back to this.

Somehow it got said that I was going to Ghana. And when I said that, she was like, you know, your whole family been going to Ghana since the 70s. You know that we like, your great grandmother started one of the first black churches in or first church of gods in West Africa. Did you know this, this, this, this, this. So I'm like, oh, we connected? Like, now I'm not feeling like I'm going somewhere for it. And now I really feel this like, you know, this connection and a recent one, not like, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm going to say it.

I'm going to be honest with you. I still ain't never went to the slave castles. You know, that's like a big thing when black folks, when African American folks go there, it's like a tourism thing. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And people have told me that it has this profound, you know, physical reaction to it. I'll be getting on with that shit. Like, I'll be watching the color purple for fun.

Like, I don't like, I don't want to see nothing traumatic. I don't watch the color purple for fun. You know what I'm like? Yeah. If I need to cry, I don't watch it. But like, I'm getting that. I'm learning all this recent history about the dude that made Ghana free. The guy that, like, so Ghana is the first country in Africa to not have colonialism to kick the British out.

And they did it with this dude, Kwame and Krumah. who became their first president, and he was on some Garveyism shit. So that's why they got the black star and they flag. And so I'm looking at all these connections. I'm like, damn, this is a lot of stuff speaking to me. And I got to figure out a way to tell the story, to platform what I'm learning.

Right. And then I'm like, I'm dumb as hell. I'm a whole rapper. Like, let me learn. Let me collaborate. Let me grow in this time and continue to produce works. So the whole time I'm doing that, I'm dropping some of my greatest music. I think the highs and the lows is one of my greatest songs I haven't made.

That sounds like four years old, five, three years old now. But like I still feel like I made that in this vein of like this road that I was going on. Yeah. Same thing with, yeah, no, same thing with, you know, the vulnerability and 3333. Like there's all these songs that like kind of, you know, kept checking in with my fans as I was growing. and but still taking the time to like craft something that they could hear that's new. Yeah. I mean, you brought up the conversation with your grandmother and her saying you have to give harsh truths to your daughters right away.

Is that where some of the energy went into with Letter from Chance, which is, you know, not unexpected. You and I talked off mic on text because, you know, I grew up Irish Catholic, which I've talked on this pot about. My mother was my Sunday school teacher. Super Irish Catholic. And I've had reservations where I went and studied other religions. tried to find other denominations. Just because it was a very weird experience once I got a little older.

Being that you have had, I wouldn't even say the stereotype, but you have obviously that gospel in your music since acid rap. Yeah. How did you feel putting that record together that doesn't contradict because I just think it's a reality of the church

but saying those things and kind of airing out. Yeah. It's hard putting it out, I would say. It was harder than writing it. But actually, that's not true. I felt, I do remember, like there was, what's funny about me and I found out that like other, like some of my peers don't do this, but I'd be coming up with concepts long before I have the version of the song. And sometimes I'll make three versions of one concept over a completely different kind of beats, whole new words, still the same thing I'm trying to get across, just maybe a different way. And when I, like, one of the things that greatly inspired me when I was making this project being honest, even before I went to Ghana was reading this dude named James Cohn. And James Cohn basically is like, he's a, what do they call him a theologist, a theologian? I don't know.

Theologist. Theologist. That was in the 60s that was like, he invented what they call black liberation theology. And so it's basically a, you know, everybody that's a pastor, any of your pastors, for the most part, unless they were grandfathered in, they went to seminary. They went to school. and just like when you go to college, you pick a master, you pick like a certain study,

it's going to come from a certain lens and have a certain principle. So all of these different, not just denominations, but also all of these different ideologies come from how they learned the Bible and who taught it to them.

What's the most important thing? Is it, you know, a gospel of long suffering? Is it a gospel of forgiveness? Is it a gospel of evangelism? Is it a gospel of, what's the one that they got on TV on, prosperity gospel? Is it about the riches that you could obtain in this life?

Joe Olstein. Facts. There's a lot of like- No, that's a capitalist. That's what it is. But that is what it is. That's literally, but I'm not trying to disown about theology. What I'm saying is like, I first started learning about Black Liberation theology

because my grandmother got me this book. And it's basically this dude who at the time was young, he was a theologist that was friends with Stokely Carmichael, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, right at the turn of this, like, new, you know, when they made black, say aloud, I'm black and I'm proud, like that was super radical. Like, niggas did not want to be called black at that time.

Right. You know what I'm saying? So, like, black people go through these different, you know, sort of revolutions and identity of being like, oh, no, we're not niggas no more. Oh, no, we're not African-American no more. Oh, no, we're not Afro-American no more. Oh, no, we're not, you know, Negroes, whatever.

But that's an important thing, Self-determination is like a part of living. Like you want to be identified how you see yourself. And when James Brown, like black power basically came out as like a thing niggas were screaming at rallies that had people just as scared as Black Lives Matter or it's not more scared because it's a response to white power. So they like, oh, what you mean, black power? Like so when James Brown did that, it kind of like changed the whole culture and how a lot

of people talked about everything. Like, oh, we could be proud to be black, which is. at this time, basically like the N-word, like, we could be proud to be that. Okay, that shit starts to reverberate in all these other different spaces. And in the world of like the black churches, which are now starting to organize with King, starting to, you know, the mosque in Chicago starting to organize with Malcolm. This dude comes, starts writing these books, one called Black liberation, black power and black theology, one called the Cross and the Lynching Tree,

which was the one that really like is kind of like gave me the basis for a lot of the album. But he just made me like start to read the gospel in a different understanding and different like, you know, sense of self and self-determination. And so that song was like something that I knew I needed to like, if I'm talking about all these different aspects of my black experience and what I see in the world and what I see wrong and what I see right and how I see myself, how I could. how could I not speak on the church? And I got to speak on it at large and at small. So the first verse is about my own family church and just how I've watched my church, you know, essentially wither

because of certain politics, of certain, you know, just how people treat each other. And I'm not trying to like, I ain't trying to put my church on blast. You know what I'm saying? But I have to come from the internal first before I could be talking about other people. Absolutely.

So I talk about my church a little bit in the verse. Then the second verse I talk about the megachurches. I talk about the Joel Osteins and the people that denied sheltered to people when they have megastadiums and people that, you know what I'm saying, other megachurch pastors that would, you know, spit in their hand and put in on somebody's face as a demonstration. Like, I'm seeing these things that contradict with other things that they do. And it's not an issue with the person at all. It's about the action and like, what does it mean to be the body of Christ? So I'm examining that for those two verses. And then the third verse, I talk about the black church and talk about the things that we've seen happen.

We know that they bombed four little girls in a church. We know that just as recently a couple years ago, a man walked into a church in Buffalo and killed these innocent nine people that's praying. So, and we know, you know, that they used to, the people that were doing lynchings, if you got a, if you got any of those photos of the lynchins, if you turn the camera the other way, it's the entire church congregation that's putting on this public lynchings. Right. So at what point do we, the black church, which does exist, like it is a thing, you know what I'm saying? We could say that we don't want to discriminate by churches, but there is a black church. You know what I'm saying? How do we not ignore that?

How do, what does what does God tell us? You know what I'm saying? And I don't, and I think like the, all of those parts of the song are still like an examination. They're not statements. you know, they're not meant to be statements from me. I'm playing a character. There's this, you know, in the Bible at the end of the Bible, like there's a lot of, if you ever heard of Romans or Thessalonians or Galatians

or like any of the ones that end with Anns at the end, Corinthians. These are letters to Corinth. So these are the Corinthian letters. Or these are, you know, these are letters from this dude Paul that were chastising the churches. different cities that were not practicing the gospel the way that they were supposed to. And so there's a lot of jokes on some Christian shit. Like if we want to get into like Christian

jokes, like people always talk about like the letters that we would receive if if Paul was to write a letter to the Church of America. Like if this was Americas in the Bible, that whole thing would be a scathing letter. So it's like I write those three verses from that perspective. And then the last one, I just kind of examine what it means to be the body of Christ. And so So to answer your question in short, it was very hard to, like, I think publish the song because I know that there's going to be a visceral reaction from people that feel like you're talking about the church and you're talking about my God. And there's also going to be, you know, people that would be like, oh, right message,

wrong messenger or whatever. So like publishing it is hard. And then I think, yeah, like taking certain times, like I'll make a song and then go back a million times and like, you know, oh, I wasn't going hard enough or oh, I might have been saying I'm going too hard. Yeah, yeah. The music on this, on this album is incredible. I was telling Rory last week, because I think you had sent it in the chat and then had to send it again.

Because it kept updating, too. Yeah. So I was like, I was listening to it last night and I listened it on the way to studio today. And the first thing, like, I didn't, it's weird the way I listen to albums and artists. I don't hear the words, the first listen. Most people don't. It's just music. Yeah.

So I'm listening to the music and I'm like, damn. Like, this is some of the best music I've heard from chance. Thank you, man. I can digest this. Yeah, like, I can hear this. And I'm like, okay. So then now I'm listening to the lyrics and finding the lyrics more. And I'm hearing certain little things and little.

And I'm like, okay. But I was really listening because it was like, you're one of the artists that I always felt like is talented. Like super, super talented. Thank you, brother. But I have this thing where me personally, you can be the most talented, amazing artist, but I don't listen to your music.

I know exactly what you mean. You understand what I'm saying? I have that too. I don't know where to listen to it. I don't know what time, when, I have time to listen to it. Everything is consumed in my phone. YouTube and whatever the fuck else, dinner and, you know what me, family. There's artists that's just cool to say you like them.

You don't really be listening to the shit. They're revered. That's what the street team and thing, like, that's what, like, I'm doing right now with this album and, like, really working it and, like, going to the people and popping up places with my CD. Yeah. is like you have to meet people where they are in this world. Everything is made to be super accessible and promotional. So like you could spend however much money you want on recording and editing and mixing a song and making a music video and doing a radio campaign.

But it's like you ultimately giving that music away for free at some point, at some point that music is going out to people. So it's like how do you like get in front of someone? and say, hey, person to person, if you support me, if you rock with me, buy my CD. Right. You know what I'm saying? And like, you can't get that across without being there, I think, with the people. Like, I'm in a space where, like, I really just, I love being out and being able to, like, talk to the people because they got stories and they got, and it's been a journey like this.

I dropped, I dropped 10 day in 2012. So that project is like 13 years old. Is that a good math? 13 years old? Yeah. So like I'm basically a vet. I'm 32. I'm a vet in this shit.

Your supporters are different. Fans are different. They've grown. They've gotten older. They've had families. They've, a lot has changed. They've, they've, and they feel a lot of the things that I had to feel early. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like, like I said, I got married young. I had my kids young. I got, you know, I got on young. Like I'm, like, I'm using out young. You know what I'm saying? So it's like when you, when you, when you. when you're growing with your fans,

you got to let them know like, hey, I'm right here. Like, I'm right here. Are we filling this together, experiencing these things together? Fact. Where are you at in your life with your family? Yeah. I'm going to ignore Josh again and ask one more question. Yeah.

You being one of the first people that got, if I remember correctly, the first exclusive Apple Music deal. I don't think I was the first, but I think I was like, I was probably, I was the unsigned. dude. I was the flagship. Yeah. In retrospect, do you feel like that... No, no, no, not what you did. I do. Just the streaming war

that was between Apple, Spotify, and even title at the time when Hope was bringing everybody in. The title was huge. Yeah. It's one of the craziest press releases ever, bad marketing, but he had every artist like he was trying to... Yeah, Prince. And I'm also not talking bad about anything Jay-Z ever did. No, no, we're not on that. But do you think

the fans are the ones that suffered from that entire few years? The artist for sure. What? Think about paying $10 a month for all the music in the world. Here's where I feel bad or I feel like my space in it and why I'm pushing so hard to get my physical CD to a fan. Yeah, that's fire, by the way. This was like this was our, you know, exchange.

Like I made something for you here hold it in your hand you know what I'm saying take it home put it in the car burn a copy for somebody Yeah, type shit and I did that hand-to-hand and when I You know got to the age I put out 10 day I think I was 19 You know SoundCloud that Piff audio Mac all these streaming spaces were YouTube were all like you know coming up in terms of like how people wanted to access music even though the iTunes store still was dominating how how people access stuff and stores, physical mechanical sales were dominating. It was like, I could put this shit up here for free, get way more people that aren't going to wait for getting behind a paywall or whatever. Like, I could get these people right now to hear it and then they'll want to, then they'll want to buy a shirt.

Right. You know, they'll want to buy a ticket to the show. And there was a, like, a dissonance when I was trying to, because there was a point where I was trying to get a label deal, like where I was going to label meetings right after 10 day drop. what you think about going with. Whoever has some money, Nick up. Like, I ain't have no money. I have no money. So I'm like, you know what I'm saying?

Whoever I can get some money from? And those deals were awful. They're terrible. And I decided, like, you know, because it was costing me money just to receive the contracts. Like, you got to have a lawyer that's just reading them. You're getting paid just for him to read the shit. Right. I was like, I told them, don't send me no more contracts until after I dropped my project in the spring.

That's when I dropped Asherap. And once I dropped Asherab, I was like, oh, I don't need this shit. I can just go on to it. Right. But the, the. that streaming time that I was on Dapf and AudioMic, which I did for ASRAP too. Ashtrap also was not on iTunes or no shit like that.

I got it from that Piff. Yeah. So it's like that level of like straight to my fans, I fucked with that. I didn't think about like my whole point when I was saying that and I had interviews where I was saying. It was like I don't think it's fair that I have to sell it at this market price of 99 cents

because what if I think my song costs more than that? Right. Right. And so I was like, I was outside the system in that way and nobody wanted to give me a deal without giving me mechanical. So you have to have a budget

and your record deal for how much they're going to press up of your mechanicals. And you want them to press more so you're in more stores, but you also don't want them to press a bunch because that's the budget. So now you owe them money.

So I was like, hey, I want every deal I'm coming in. I'm just like a kid and I'm like thinking I'm so fucking smart and I talk well. And I'm like, well, I was like, blah, blah, blah, blah. No 360. And they're like, hell no.

Nickle, like, that's not how this shit worked. Like, you're in our building. And, but I championed that streaming thing. And then what happened was, being honest, like, it got commercialized. And a bunch of, you know, people put their money together, labels, other people, put their money together and was like, hey, we can offer full catalogs and music and basically, you know, make this thing. Because people, like, basically the music is always going to move faster than the industry. Like the ability to put out something is going to move faster than the ability to figure out a way to capitalize off of it. But it's kind of a short space behind.

So we used to have music and compositions where people would send like sheet music around. Then, you know, record companies were like, or publishing companies like, well, we will publish the music for you. And then people are like, okay, we're making vinyl records. We got recordings. And then somebody who owned the label was like, let's buy all the vinyl press and plants. So now we the record industry. And then it just keeps going like that. You know, Napster fucked up the industry for a second.

And then that's when they was like, okay, well, we need an iTunes. So somebody figures out a way to make the music accessible to everybody. And then somebody has to figure out a way to make money off of it. And when it got to the Apple music shit, I really was like, you know, I'm thinking about myself in the moment. I'm thinking about like, okay, they're going to give me some cash. You know what I'm saying? I'll still own my masters. I'll still, it's really just, this is a beef between them.

That's how I'm really thinking about it. I'm like, this is a beef between Apple and title and all them. This shit don't got nothing to do with me. Like, if title had given me a bag first or if this person gave me a bag first, I didn't even think I was in that space. You know what I'm saying? Like, the people that was getting those exclusive deals was like Frank Ocean. Yeah, like, you know what I'm saying?

And he found the greatest loophole of them. You know what I'm saying? Like those kind of people were, and then like they tighten the reins on that too. So like now it's like you can't really do an exclusive with anybody because they were saying that's fucking up the money between them. Right. But what I did by doing that by becoming like, you know, this flagship artist for streaming and having the reputation that I have, everybody's like, streaming's good.

But like, I'm sure that y'all read somewhere that streaming not good, right? For the artist. Absolutely. And so just like, I think it's funny that I'm always kind of like anti. I'm not a contrarian, but I'm like, I'll see something. I'll be like, oh, I want to go this opposite direction. And then sometimes that will become the popular idea. and then by the time that happens, I'm like, well, actually this shit, not really like that.

I'm all for that. So, yeah, definitely buy my album from me, you feel like me? Like, it's going to be on streaming. Stream it up. I appreciate all the streams. But, like, come to my website, Chan stuff, I literally package them up and put them in boxes and mail them to myself. That's real, niggas shit.

Starline, August 15th. Incredible Project. The music is fire. Love the, love the features you got on there. Good to hear you and Vic working again. Yeah, appreciate it. Where can they get it at? You can get it at Chance Stuff.

So I'm Chance. This is my stuff. Each chance. That's his stuff. Go to chancestuff.com. You order. We send it straight to you. And just so you know, this is a new kind of technology.

This is called an NFC type. Let me show you this actually. So basically, most niggas don't have CD players. But there's this thing called the NFC technology. It means near field communication. What you do is when you put the album directly to your phone, it'll populate a little link. Oh, I got to open the camera? No, no camera needed.

That's like Kurolau's because that's in 2000. And late. It's like, this is brand new. That's 2020. It is. And I can finally see all in mall's text messages. So right now. Online album CD.

Yeah. So when you get the album, when I mail it to you, and you get in the car and you remember you don't got a CD player, tap your phone to this. You can Bluetooth this straight off of that and the CDM. Oh, that's crazy. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I close the site and still play it.

So that's the most important thing. You can close the site and still play it if you got Safari on your phone. Yeah. It'll still work. But the key is like, I want people to have something from me that like when I'm gone, you know what I'm saying? Like you have something that came directly from you and get it from a story. And it's not like in your cloud or something like that.

This is, you can only get this from me. Yeah. That's fire. I love that. All right, man. Well, chance we appreciate you coming by. It's good to see you. Good to have this project this Friday.

Thank y'all. Hey, let me also say this place is incredible. Like, y'all's face is so. nice. Like, niggas be having sticky floors and shit. Yeah, yeah. No, no sticky. This is a huge studio and it's beautiful. Y'all got the raw setup. Thank you, bro.

Yeah. We appreciate you coming by, man. I'm that nigga. He's just ginger. Let's a chance to wrap him. Yeah. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.