New Rory & MAL - Checking In With Miguel

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

Rory and Mal check in with Miguel to discuss his new album "CAOS", how he evolved as an artist during his album hiatus, and what he regrets about working with Pharrell #volume All lines provided by hardrock.betSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The volume. All right, Roy, we are back. Today we are joined by a very, very special guest, somebody that we are both huge fans of. Happy to see him back. Did not realize until he told us that the last album, Warren Leisure, came out. 2017 seven years ago eight years ago I thought it was for COVID has scrambled our minds brains everything time is a construct though for sure but today we are joined by the talented the creative the iconic R&B I'm not gonna say R&B because he's not gonna box him into

that he's just an incredible musician back with his new album chaos yeah Miguel yeah that's good clap Miguel is here thank you bro thank you guys thank you guys thank All already embarrassed me off mic of how excited I was. Yes, Rory was very excited that Miguel was coming by to see us today. But rightfully, so we've been fans of Miguel and supported them for years. So it's good to see him a good day of him here today. How are you feeling, man? I feel great, man.

I'm fans of your guys. I'm appreciative that, like, be on here, man. Oh, come on, stop, stop. Listen, we're doing. He's like, stop, stop, keep it coming. Tell us more of how amazing we are. But the thing is, is like when you're able to come and talk to people who love music. Yeah, yeah, it's just different.

It's a different conversation. It's just different conversations. We were talking. We were talking about, so we were listening to the album over the weekend. Yesterday I listened to it in the crib, and I was just telling you that it inspired me to clean the dishes, clean the crib. The album sounds incredible. The music is great, but that's, it's not, I mean, it's no surprise. You've been doing this for years, making incredible music, but how does it feel personally after eight years to just get back in the swing of artist mode?

Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. It should be like, okay. Get back to it. Gotta go do it. Yeah. Go save this. Talk your shit.

Yeah. Song is about this. Yeah. By the album. Through the whole thing. That whole thing, yeah. Why eight years, though? It took time.

I mean, we were talking earlier and, I mean, parenthood is a big one. Parenthood, but I mean, I didn't become a parent eight years ago. It's more recent. I think that was the kind of final, like, okay, it's time. Yeah. Okay. I think I just was really looking for a reason. Mm-hmm.

Because I was, I was, I was kind of burnt. I was burned. A lot of things that I needed to, like, really just deal with, you know. I went on a pretty long run, and I think it was, it was time. It was time to start dealing with my me shit. Okay. Because I did a lot of my growing up, like adult growing up in the middle of it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It all kind of happened in my adult years. which is a blessing, but it also means you got to, you know, holding oneself accountable is a vigilant ordeal. You know what I'm saying? You got to really be paying attention.

And I just didn't have, I didn't have the bandwidth at the time or just the self-awareness to be straight up. I wasn't really paying attention to like the me of it. And I need to do some like reflecting. and just get in touch of like my values really and so it took some time but um

but it was the right amount I think I feel coming back I'm a I feel so much more like I'm good like I can do this for some time and you know it's going to take some some maintenance but I feel really good coming back Was there like a specific aha moment in that eight years that it was like I need to get back

to the studio or were you always working just nothing really connected the way you wanted it so man you know when you get in and you're like i'm here but nothing is coming man it felt like a drought for some time it took some time i think because i had put so much like of the the value or my value in like the success of what i was doing or whatever my perceived success was and then like looking at other success and then comparing and you're like, damn, like I'm doing all this work, but I'm not getting this. And then you start, you start to chip away at that the moment you started looking. Yeah, everything.

Yeah, everything. So I needed to really go lock in, you know, I need to lock in and like figure out, okay, well, what is it that I love about this? What do I still love and what can be recovered? What has changed and, like, figure it out and decide if I really wanted to do it and to continue to do that. To do this, rather, to do music. and yeah I'm really happy that I found it again

and I think I became really like protective this time around I'm really protective about you know this is about it's like there's purpose behind it and that I really want to connect with my audience before it was like go get the big song

do the big thing have a big moment flag pictures taken go walk the carpet it was like that part of it was a big was a big thing, you know? This time it's about how am I

how am I having a real conversation that I can continue to have with my audience? They're the only ones that's really been writing for me and the ones that is going to still play my music where I can provide for my son, provide for my family, and it's a sustainable thing.

So, yeah, the objective is different. Yeah, but 2017, I mean, eight years so much has changed with the business of music, sound, the audience, a lot of your audience has grown as well as you have there. People have families now. So in writing and making music, with that gap of seven years,

how much of the music on this new project was like closer to 2017 than 2025? Or is it all like new current right now where Miguel is today? This is a, it was like I was, that's also a part of what took a long time. Because in the beginning, you know when you're like, man, I don't know, you meet somebody and you're like, I don't know what it was, but I just don't fuck with them. Like, I don't know. I would say the beginning of 2017, 2018, there was a feeling about myself. I was like, something's not right. Okay.

And the beginnings of that are still on the album. I think it took eight years to really identify, like, what are the things that are really important and that have continued? to, they say something about the overall me coming to terms with me and also the value of hitting a point where good enough isn't good enough. You feel me? When you're like, actually like, I have something that is important to refine and where I want to go, that's not going to work. You know, not refining it isn't going to work. And so this album is a is like the main points of the last eight years that kind of tell the story of like,

oh man, I hit a point where I'm really trying to like get my shit together. And what I found out was, you know, change and growing. It's like it's not, it's not a linear path. Right.

You know? And it's like, I think along the way, there are many times like, I got it. Yeah. And I'm like, bet.

Yeah. I'm going. And, you know. Four months later. Yeah. Four months later. A moment later. Sonically, this album does kind of feel like your entire discography in one project.

Was there pressure kind of, I feel like, the catch-22 of making a classic album is that everyone is going to want it again. And even going from Wild Heart to Warren Leisure, you did steer away from trying to make kaleidoscope dreams too. Yeah. What was the thought going into this? because there's a lot of like alternative, almost like TRL Blink 182 type style in this. We're at crazy. Crazy. Thank you.

Thanks. Yeah, thanks. Coming back, was there a pressure of thinking like, damn, should I just go back to what I know my core maybe wants for me, which is more traditional R&B? Or should I keep this path of evolving my sound? What was that? That's always, it's always the question, right? But you have to, we have to remember that. and I remind myself this

when all I want is you came out what that sounded like in the songwriting that's not what was happening at the time and my core audience from that album when Collidescope Dream came that's also not what they were expecting or what it sounded like in the time

and Collidescope Dream that core audience is not the core audience from Wildheart and so on and so forth. And I think to answer your question, I would consider myself more like a restaurant tour than us. No. Every album is like its own restaurant. You know what I mean?

There's going to be some, there's going to be a core principle in the, in the approach. Yeah. But the cuisine may be a little different. I'm also the head chef. Right. So you're still going to fill me in the dishes.

That's all my personality, all where I come from. But, you know, I might bring in some new flavors. It's going to be some new technique even, you know. And so each album is its own restaurant and cuisine experience, dining experience. This album, this experience is, personally, I think for my fans, for my audience, it will be a classic album. Now whether or not it becomes a classic album for, you know, a broad audience, it's not really my, I have no say in that, you know, that's timing and that's all kinds of things. What I will say is that this one is my most aggressive album for sure. And I think in that it's fitting for the times.

Because what I've learned is that when you're going through some like refining, you've got to be aggressive. You can't be passive. Right. You can't be lackadaisical and you can't sleep on any of it. You start to veer back into the old, your comfort zone. And I think it happened naturally because of what we're seeing. Like, we're in a time where overall I feel like there's a lot of anger and aggression. And it dawned on me that we need to be in, this is the most.

this is not a time for us to be honky dory you feel me like it is the time to be like no I am not I don't like this we need and and I don't like it today and I don't like it tomorrow and I'm not gonna be okay with it

until it's right and that's the I think at the core of this one there's a real need for change you know there's a there's a drive to change and I think that's what

but makes it relevant. None of my other albums I've ever had that at the core, you know? Is that the electric guitar? Because the electric guitar can kind of feel aggressive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But is that the reason why there's more of that on this project is because of the energy and the mold that you're in?

I would say most of my, I mean, I think that's the most, the electric guitar throughout my albums has always been a driving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always a driver. I think that live drums on this album I think there's a lot of even tempo-wise

there's a few records on others more than any of my other albums that feel like they're driving and they're aggressive and even on the mid-tempo side New Martyrs it still feels yeah yeah yeah you know and then

there's there's songs there's a song called Berder deereme which is like I lose myself and that feels like there's just something in there Yeah. So I would say that and the drums, but just the spirit of the whole thing

is really coming from me, me feeling like I'm not okay with just being okay anymore. That's fine. Yeah, you know, and I really, I'm demanding of myself to figure it out. Yeah.

And that's, yeah, that's where this one is. Yeah, but where would you say that, I guess, new form of aggression derived from? Was that, I mean, in the eight years of you finding yourself, in different situations. Is there a core point

where you think that aggression started? It's probably just been building. And also, I realize in the process that I haven't always been, I haven't considered that my anger and aggression needs to be dealt with in a, I've never needed to.

It wasn't always like something that was like forward facing. Yeah. I think, because it was building. For sure. No, that's, Look, this industry in any industry, man, you start to deal with people and people think

they could take advantage of you or you get taking advantage of and you learn your lessons a hard way sometimes. But that just starts to pile up. And, you know, you want to take the high road. You want to be on, you know, and on top of that, you're considering things that people say, you know, when you're in the,

when you're forefacing, it's like people say things that they have, no insight on so you're dealing with that and then you've got the regular shit life yeah um i definitely feel it was just building yeah i just was like man i need to i need to get this out something pretending like it didn't matter yeah yeah i mean what was like the first hard lesson you felt like you learned in the music industry um to deal with people one-on-one to not do that in this business will come at the cost of money in a lot of time

I think being direct with people and dealing with people directly and you know I'm old enough now where in the past it was very much like let your lawyers handle or let the manager handle it's always somebody that they would like to put in front of

in order at the time it was like to protect you. Yeah. But what ends up happening is like other people's egos get in the way, people misrepresent your position, or even sometimes inadvertently color

a message in their own way that changes the outcome. And that can go both ways. Positive and negative. Sometimes, you know, in my case, I've learned that dealing with people directly is way more effective.

And I think that that's why even now the things move faster because we're dealing with people. It's a DM. You know what I mean? Like I don't want, I don't need to talk to your, you know. We can talk right now. Yeah.

Like, let's just do it. And also as a man, dealing with things directly is way more effective. Always the best way. Just straight. Just get to the point. Let's go to the source and let's handle it. And we can squash it.

We can get on the same page. And everything move forward. So I think that's the biggest one. Not to hide behind people or teams. I think being very. The politics of it all. Yeah. Listen.

Get that out the way. Yeah. I mean, even on an artist level, too, because I feel, you know, outside of you being on classic hooks, with your music, you've been very particular on who you collab with. Like, there hasn't been many features in your dysography like that. Yeah. You know what, though? I would say in the future, I would do way more, but I would preface it. Like, I don't want, I'm not doing no features with nobody that I haven't had some food or coffee or a conversation with.

Why is that? A lot of artists don't do that. Like, they just, like, he's hot or she's hot right now. I need to get a joint. Let me do this. I'll send you the session. Miguel wants to go to dinner. Let's go have lunch at least.

Let's sit down. Let's kick it. Man, because I, this is like my life. I put my, like, heart into everything I do. It's really personal. None of this is, like, business. I mean, it's business. You know, there's that part of it.

But when it comes to the music part, like, I'm really trying. It's really effort. And then on top of that, then you're going to ask me to post about it and then show for the video and then do you a favor over here. Yeah. If any of that happens and then like the person is an asshole and I find it out too late, it's happened where I'm like, I don't ever want to be around that person. You know what I'm saying? I'm not collaborating with somebody that puts ketchup on eggs. Right.

We can't do nothing together. Anything else is fine. That's just that's my money. It's like, you know what? I'm booked. It's not. I'm not going to be able to send that verse back. I just can't get on the same level.

We don't see I die. I can't see I die. I can't do it. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, bro. No. No,

but that makes sense, though, because a lot of people, you know, when you talk about collab, and now it's so easy to collab. Like, like you said, a DM,

but if you don't sit down and connect with somebody, it's like you don't really feel like the energy is not, like, even to an extent, like the things that Rory and I do it would guess. Like,

we say, damn, I hate meeting. Like, I hate that we're having this conversation with you on camera for the first time. Right. I would rather meet Miguel like in Manhattan. We went to the Chinese food spot or we had a drink or whatever.

It just makes everything is different after. Right. Energy, everything is different. Right. But as far as making music, it's a whole different level of just chemistry when you're able to really sit down and get to know somebody to connect with them. Yeah. I did get lucky though.

Like Cole, Cole is one of those people where it was like, it just, we just locked thin and and he's actually a good person at you know he's just a good person I got lucky and there's there's a couple like really significant points in my have to say I'm a very I've been very lucky where I've actually really connected with like my significant you know like collaborators um uh mentors are good people yeah I got lucky like that there's a lot of people who don't get that and at this point I'm like I've had it happen where I do a collab and, you know, it was the, it was the right thing in terms of this was a name at the time or they were having a mom or whatever. And then later on, I'm just like, I don't know.

Yeah. You don't really. Yeah, we don't really. Yeah, we don't really. Yeah. Like, wish, no, no ill will or anything at all, but just like, I don't really ever want to kick it with you. Yeah. Yeah.

Sorry. I feel that. I'm just like, I'm cool. I definitely feel that though. Yeah. It's interesting too that like rappers kind of get the. the rap, no pun intended, that they're the ones that are standoffish

or won't work with each other. R&B artists are that times 10. Like, if you go with the Coles, Kendrix, Drake, Big Sean, Waleh, like that class, they've all collaborated with each other. Now, if you would go with your class, which I've, you, Frank, weekend, party next door, like, R&B people, even with their graduating class is never really fuck with each other like that.

It's a trip. It's a trip. I was just having this conversation too. We were talking about the difference in support. Also because I can hear that class in the music. And it's like I can look at it and be like, damn, I'm like, I did my thing. We did our thing. Like it's in.

Like I can hear how my approach is like really actually kind of affected. And it's such a, it's a dope thing to see and to see everyone else, you know, see everyone else's influence and the shaping of the society. I mean, we started alternative R&B. There was no category for that. You know, it was like, we did that. Yeah, there was no, there was no, we were the ones, right? It was, and it is a shame to kind of, to think that we actually never really did.

And I don't know what that's about. I think about historically, you know, when soul music was in Detroit, when it was Philly or Detroit, there was a hub of, of, and a scene. where writers and artists were working together. Stevie's all over all the motel. You know what I mean? Marvin Gay was in a, you know, he was in a band. He was, they were all working together.

Traveled together. Traveled together on tours together. I still don't have an answer for why it doesn't happen. I mean, I think with a lot of them, they had similar producers in common. Right. So they would be in sessions. Exactly. Everyone was kind of running through the same system where that's different now.

And I think rappers also, it's a bit easier if we both walk into a studio and agree on a beat. Something can easily come out of that where I feel like some of the greater R&B artists are so in tune with their production. Right. Like they are producers as well. That can get weird. Like if you and Frank walk into a studio, you're both going to have different directions as far as the production goes. The approach or the sonic or the sonic. Whereas, you know, a loop beat with a fucking soul sample.

Cole and Wiley would be like this is great let's go Yeah like like banger I agree actually is going to go crazy So I think maybe that's where it could derive from Just on the production side Because everyone's so hands on Especially before too We're talking about songwriters

Yeah so and crafters like I write and produce I produced a door real music I wrote that song I mean I wrote sure thing And they're not It's not a verse also it's also the approach like a crazy verse from an emcee

is gonna be like can kill the whole song yeah it's like man like let me think like Nikki Minaj verse on Monster like her verse won the song yeah you know what I'm saying two of the greatest rappers of all time

on that but it's like a verse can go crazy for an MC but for singing yeah for I don't know how you know yeah I think it can I think now it's evolved where we could approach it that way. And I think it'd be interesting to explore it like that.

But I know in the past it was about we're singer-songwriters, you know, and we're producers. So it was about the song. It was the whole thing, and artists. So I wonder if there's something interesting there though. You know, it's like, what if we just approach it as verses? Right. You know?

Have you ever had to meet any of your idols or people that you looked up to and were, like, disappointed? And like, heartbroken, like, oh, this person is not really a, good person or like not what I thought it would be. Definitely ones where I wish we would have got on. Like it like we could have found some like, okay, I fuck with you like on the personal. Who did I not really?

You know what? Honestly, I would almost say I would wager that more it was like me. That it was me. I was like, oh, am I the problem? I'm the widow. This was the eight years of disappearing where you had to learn. I needed to go do it so. I was the problem.

I am the drama. It was me. I am the drama. I'm here to tell you guys. So what was the scenario that you felt that way? He just looked back like, you know what, damn? I'm like, I'll fuck that up. Yeah.

No, no, I'll say this. I'll say this. This is one I, like, I wish it would, and it wasn't because anyone was, was, when we were doing, when I was doing Collidoscope Dream, I was here at, um, at Platinum Sound. I was over there for a long time when Platinum Sound was over on in Midtown. Shout out to Jerry Wonder Legend legendary I mean

What happened in that studio In terms of just like The amount of fun And the songs and all that was incredible And I was We had momentum And Adorn was having a moment And we were finishing that album

I got to work with Farrell finally And Farrell came and he spent Some days with me And And I'd still look at those sessions And I'm like man I really wish we would have found one What we did

doesn't fit the album. It doesn't, it, like, it would have never worked on kaleidoscope dream. And I'm, I'm,

I'm clear about that, but also, like, I just wish I would have locked in with him more because he's a hero of mine, you know? And, um,

and I always, like, just like, damn, I wish, like, was it me? Like,

was I just, like, too. And I was really adamant, too. I was like, I knew what I wanted. Yeah.

And I was, um, really sure. Yeah. I mean, I don't think there's a bad thing because... That has to be commendable and respectable, especially from Farrell to see a young artist so fixed on who they are and what they want

and the sound that they want to create. I know what you mean, though, because it's like, this is Farrell. It's big. But I will say this, though. He did, I mean, look, he's a visionary. And he came in and we cut this record that is a banger. I don't even, I can't, like, the hard drive

that has the session on it is like, it's somewhere and, like, in stores, somewhere. but it's very much feels like a prince record but if i were if i but me still you know but he came in with such a vision and i don't think i was ready for that i was like how to clear i had a clear different vision and um i've seen in subsequent interviews of his they've asked some questions like i mean you could tell i've thought about this i've really thought about this yeah this has been haunting you oh bro it's been on my bed i'm like man like why didn't we're like why didn't we I know it was all that.

Like, damn, didn't have a repeat. If Coladiscope Dreams wasn't a classic, I'd say this should keep you up at night. But you got it right with Colossol Dr. You got it right. But would that have worked maybe more on Wild Heart? Because, I mean, that was kind of the stereotypical fan perspective of like, all right, is he about to do his prints thing? He's going. Yeah, he's going.

No, no. I think on the contrary, this was this, I don't even know where this record would have fit. but I do think it would have probably at the time it probably would have hit I think he was right and I think based on what fans wanted what's known about me and my taste

and who I'm drawing from, my inspirations and whatnot it would have made a lot of sense and the record was a great record but I just wanted to go a different direction and he spoke about interviews as well that record specifically he's talked about other situations where he's been in a room

And he's like, you know, not everybody's ready to hear my vision. And the ones that do have listened, you know, he's like, more often than not, you know, have had great moments with them. And he didn't. He's talking about you. Yeah, you were watching YouTube in your kitchen like, that's about me. This is about me. And even if it's not going to feel like that, like, that's about me, definitely. Yeah, no, no, he definitely wasn't.

And I think it might have been an interview before I even, before I worked with him. But I think he was like referring to like maybe Justin or something at the time. And he's like, you know, not every time I go in and they're ready to hear what I'm seeing. But when they trust me to just do the thing, he's like that's where that's how we get this and that. And I think he was talking about Justin and whatnot. He might have mentioned Kendrick or something in it. But that is one of those ones where it wasn't either of us. It just didn't happen.

Yeah. And I always look at it. I'm like, fuck, man, I wish you would have it. Again, I think that speaks more to greatness and your vision. Like, for example, we were talking when J.I.D. dropped his record with Eminem and was like, this isn't on the album. And it made me go, oh, this J.I.D. album has to be great that he's so stuck on his vision, that this Eminem shit is not on here.

This is not what I'm trying to do with a project. It made me more excited about it. Valley. Because to just leave off an M&M verse, oh, your album is like. Right. You have a vision. Yeah. The same way of like, damn, am I really about to just leave a Farrell session and be like, nah?

Yeah. The fuck. We did a couple other ones and I've been meaning to hit him because he was telling me earlier that I should be leaning into just being Latino. And like, he's like, bro, who can do it? He was definitely like, he was coaching, you know? He was like, and I wasn't in the place at the time. Also, I didn't feel like I had done the work to feel. doing music in Spanish

felt organic. It was too big of a leap at the time. But he's like a whole I mean maybe 10 years actually because after my sessions for kaleidoscope dream we worked in like Nashville during like Bonnar or some shit like that

and he was like bro you gotta get on your Latin shit hard and he cooked up some like you know those rhythms and I just wasn't ready for it. Yeah.

But then fast forward eight years later, on this album, God, I was like, I'm definitely in my, yeah, yeah, I'm in it.

And I've been waiting for, for the time when I see him and I'm like, you were right, bro, I just wasn't ready. Yeah, yeah,

because this album definitely got. No, one hundred. You still have that loaded up in your MPC or the shit you cooked up in that way. I'm like,

where is that? Because now it's time. I've been tearing his storage up like I've got to find this fucking hard drive. A win is a win. A win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

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I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big time, to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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Just hit it. Oh, what are y'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a rap album? Oh, I would. Come on. I would buy it. Cuts through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake.

That sounds delicious. Oh, you're lucky. I'm not a drug addict. You're lucky I'm not an alcoholic. You are. You are. You're lucky I'm not a killer. I love this team, and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why is everyone obsessed with romance right now? Like everyone? Your co-worker who, quote unquote, doesn't read, is reading romance. Your mom, book talk, the entire internet.

I'm Sanjana Basker. I'm Tyler McCall. And this is Radio 831, a romance podcast. The books, the tropes, the out of... adaptations, the drama, the discourse. And what all of it says about how we actually love, yearn, and obsess. We're going to Weathering Heights, which, for the record, is not a romance novel. And yet it has haunted the romance genre for 200 years.

We're getting into dark romance, age gaps, certain Russian hockey players. And sentient objects, in love, which is a thing. That's the kind of conversation we're having every episode. Listen to the Radio 831 podcast starting on May 7th on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up.

If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything. But at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids.

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In Indiana, if you are someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-8009 with it. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler, Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, and Virginia. do you think in 2025 something like in a dorn could work or do you think the landscape has just changed like i feel like timeless records pre-covid were the definition timeless this could have been in any time and it would have worked i feel like that is kind of left and i'm not sure if it's an algorithm thing i don't know if it's an attention span thing i don't know if it's just a lack of feeling in music but those timeless records, I don't know if you can place them in this time now

and they would get the same reaction. Like, would Adorn just be just, oh, that's an amazing record, but is it getting the legs that it would deserve in this time? I have, I kind of have given up on, and I think there's so many variables and like the timing of songs and like it has so much to do with all of these different variables. Could it?

Sure, it could. Would it? I don't fucking know. Yeah. I know sure thing. I put that record out. I wrote I wrote sure thing when I was 18. 18 years old? 19. You know what I wrote when I was 18 to fucking leather than my principal.

My bad. Short thing at 18. An apology to the judge. You're like, what the fuck? I will not. That's crazy. At 18 you wrote that record? Yeah. Yeah. You know, and it did good at the time but I was on a record label called Jive Records at the time. The promo department

didn't work records from black artists, black music in the way that maybe and also R&B music was not necessarily a pop genre. Yeah. Yeah. So and I was a new artist. So I'm giving you all these like variables. I'm like that record went number one two years ago a whole decade more after it was written and published and out in the thing. And even though it did numbers when it came out, the variables didn't line up for it to be a number one record or what have you. And then all of a sudden, you know, random TikTok person does this thing with the video, puts it in a song and then another person.

How, like, I could, I can't put, like. How does that make you feel as an artist though? Like for some random TikTok girl to be doing a makeup, tutorial with your record playing and then now it's going crazy on the charts again after like you don't look at that like bro it wasn't even the original video that shit went crazy on i don't even it doesn't make sense to me it's like a it's like a girl in a van like if she was getting kidnapped has nothing to do that wasn't your vision at all bro it makes no sense like if i was ever getting kidnapped right you know kidnapper thought it was a sure thing yeah and somehow this

That's the video that made someone else create something. And I'm like, okay, I don't know if a darn. Which is kind of nuts because it's like, it's the Steve Lacey effect of life. I mean, man. Should I be upset or should I be happy? Like, yes, I'm happy that now my music is out there. But it's bringing in an audience that doesn't particularly care about my artist. They show up and they're like, we just want that song.

Give me that song. Yeah. Yeah. I throw somebody's phone off stage is the same. You know what I'm saying? you better know my lyrics, no. I mean, do you think that may happen in the upcoming tour with this project that you'll get maybe some younger kids that know the shit off TikTok? Yeah, they'll be like, play sure thing.

Yeah. For sure it's going to happen. It's going to happen. I kind of, I am kind of lucky in this way, though, that I do have a core audience that have been with me since all I want is you since, you know. enough so that I feel like will fill in the gaps The crazy thing I wonder is if a Dorn will have a moment Coming back

Oh I think so. I'm like coming back, I'm like oh shit They're just they're just discovering All I want is you Wait till they get to collidoscope dream Wait till they get to so It's gonna take one like royal wedding Exactly

Or it's a Saudi wedding Some Saudi wedding Yeah playing a tour. A Saudi wedding. A door is number one. What? But I mean, your team is here now and you guys can have this one for free.

On the tour, maybe you set up some type of thing. You know, Chris Brown brings like a fan on stage. Maybe you kidnap a fan at the end of every show in the van. And like, that just becomes a thing. Rickety van drives on stage and then you kidnap a child. I think the Ricky van, just that all that, just anything that looks real suss. and we put somebody in, tie them up. It's going to go viral.

It's going to fucking go viral. I know your intentions were not this at all in the song, how many drinks, but in 2025, how do you think that's not the light of day? That is a consent record. We know that. It's a consent record. We know that. In 2025, though.

How many drinks? It was a question. Would it take you? You. How many? Are we talking three? Are we talking two? That is posing a question.

Even I started to get everyone's mind warped into hyper sensitive shit. Because when Galadiscope dreams came out, that would have never even crossed my mind. That would come across that way. But then through COVID, when your mind changes and you've been internalizing everything being sensitive. Everybody's a victim. I go back to their shit. I'm like, well, this could be misconstrued. It could be definitely twisted.

It was twisted for a second. It's not quite Rick Ross. I dropped to Molly in a drink. Yeah, no, it's not that. Yeah, no, it definitely wasn't that. It's not that. Yeah, it wasn't that. But in 2025, I mean, it almost like when Rory said it early, I was like, you know what's

crazy? It almost like, should I even play this record? Like, if I'm in a car with some girls, it's like, do I put this on? Because it's just a different world. It's a true. Nobody understands context. Or even if they do understand it, they don't care. Right.

They want to be upset. They want to be victims. They want to know this. We cannot listen to this. It's like, bro, that's not what this song is about. It's not. No. I think, I think.

And do you perform that song on tour? Hell yeah. I mean, are you still in contact with the woman that you drop kicked? Oh, my goodness. No. No. I haven't. I have not.

You know what? We need to check in. I have not about the contact with her, though. We do need to check in. I do know that she was okay. Yeah. You know, after. I think it is, it's been ample time to check in.

But you are going back. back on the road. We'll be back on tour in February for sure. I play the forum for the first time in my hometown. Oh, fire. Yeah. Yeah, we do the forum in LA. So I'm excited. Which city is your favorite? Like your favorite city to perform in like every time? On tour. It's hard to say. I would say

New York has always been a special place for me. My career really starts on the East Coast. Interesting. Yeah, they weren't playing. They didn't I didn't play any of my records on the West Coast, my first album. Really? None of those songs were on the radio in L.A. In the Bay, they did, though. Big shout out to the Bay.

Bay Area may be one of my top ones. And look, I am born and raised in L.A. I will always rep Los Angeles. That's my city or what have you. But we're just not known for having great shows. Like, the crowd's in L.A. Because we say that when we did some shows in L.A., it's like the crowd is just a little more laid back and quiet

and kind of just staring at you in Calais. Like, why is that? Jeez. Yeah. Is it that? We always say, we always joke and say, everybody's high. But everybody's high in the bay too, though. Yeah.

Everybody's high everywhere. What about it? Yeah. At a show? Yeah. Yeah. Got to be high. But it's just something about L.A.,

though, where it's just like the energy is always more reserved. I believe you will find more than any artists upset at their shows, like video of them being like, this shit is like, like, come on. Yeah. Yeah. In Los Angeles. Yeah.

I just think it's, it's just a cultural, like, laid back thing, I guess about Los Angeles. I feel like New York has the stereotype of, like,

the too cool crowd, but I always felt that was misjudged. Like, I think New York was crazy. Yeah, New York is lit. L.A. maybe the only stereotype that I think is true with crowds.

Yeah. I've been rap shows, R&B shows, rock shows, podcast. Like, everyone is just fucking standing there. It's like,

why'd you buy a ticket? Yeah. You don't want to dance? Actually, the last show I went to an L.A. That was, cracked was a turnstile show. Okay.

And I was in the pit for the most of that show, but that was a dope one. And this is before a very newest album. Actually, great album. Did anyone in the pit go, oh shit? Is that Miguel?

Hell no. No. They get my fuck. Matt you in the pit like, Miguel? Yeah, that ain't Miguel. We're just like go hard. Do you do that often or?

Do you go like see other artists like to their live shows? Yeah. As a fan just kind of like look at the set and. Yes. Yes. And I don't,

I prefer to be in it. Like I don't want to be. backstage you don't want to be i don't want to do that side of stage sound is trash yeah i want to go listen and like absorb and enjoy the show and like really feel it you know that's just the i mean i mean we forget like that's the beauty of of getting together and listening to great shit is like you're around people you're around people enjoying the a moment that's what our the the um they just brought me on man i've been um i've been excited about this i'm um scylin residents at n y you for this semester. Yeah, I'm doing a course entitled, I'm speaking chaos to power. Okay.

Which is, which is just about across the board taking, you know, all of our endeavors and making sure that we're using it in a way that's equitable. Which I feel like is the right, it's the right time for that. But especially in music and across the arts, across all mediums, I think, really being intentional about how we're organizing and molding and shaping the industries of IP and utilizing IP and how that IP should remain in the power of the creators and also the systems by which that IP gets distributed

and monetized should be owned and operated by the creators. I think it's that time where it's no longer other entrepreneurs then, you know, building businesses off of IP, I think it should be artist-owned is important. So anyway, built a whole course around that. But this, should I don't even know.

I was going, we were talking about, oh, oh, it's the moments of getting together and organizing. I mean, these are the beginnings of it. Our shows, like go to your, like, support your art. Go to your artist shows, enjoy them. That is the function of art. Yeah. Art brings people together around emotion.

which erases the differences creed color, religious belief, ethnic background. All of that completely disappears when you're in the presence of art. Yeah. That's why you'll go look at a painting and sit and just stare at that bitch

just be like, I don't know who this artist is. How did somebody do? Yeah, how did they create this? But this is like, I fuck with this. Or you listen to a poet who's from a completely different walk of life and you're like, this is just I feel this.

Yeah. Like last night I was at the Blue Note I watched a poet by my name of a queen Sheba. She's from Atlanta. And she did an amazing piece last night, moving. And I'm like, man, how often do we go see poetry anymore? And like, how often are we going?

So I think about that just to say, like, no, like, I go to shows to enjoy and absorb the fucking emotion. That's like, that's what it's about. Yeah. Like average live music beats good. recorded music. Yo, any day. Any day.

If you would just walk past somebody and watch the Square Park and they just playing, that's going to feel better than good recorded music at any moment. That's bad. Of professionals. Also, I love New Orleans. I love being one of the greatest cities.

It's the only city in the states where you feel like you're not in the states. Yeah, exactly. It feels like a whole other place. So to answer your question, New Orleans is one of them. New York, for sure. London's been really good to me. South Africa is great.

Australia. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Australia is always really good. Those are some big ones. Now that I know your career started in New York, more or less, and you're recording out here, what were some of the spots you were going to in 2010?

In New York? Yeah. Curious what the Miguel club run was like. Like, was he at up and down? I was going to say up and down. Up and down was crazy. Do you remember? God, like I've walked past Miguel a few times in the club.

I'm like, is that Miguel? He's just like, yeah, I'm out. Griffin chilling? Up and down. Yeah, up and down was the line. No, that was like, that's a legendary spot. I've definitely seen Miguel, like, maybe leaving Capella one night, getting something to eat. Capella, for sure, was the go-to-late.

Always. We still go there. I still get the tacos there. They had to bring them back because they got rid of them for a second. You've never been in a Capella and you've been in the city, go there. Yeah. I think like a Vashti Santos set. Maybe I've seen you.

For sure. seeing you at for sure where have we been um new york is so different little sister maybe i'm trying to reminisce because we don't have these things we don't have these things anymore yeah it's kind of it's kind of changed yeah or we're outside now people are still outside though like this is like what do what are people doing outside in new york it's not the same it's not they're bringing one oak back because new york is so terrible now yeah i feel like new york is kind of transition to more like private parties it's like yeah it's got more like the l-a private shit yeah yeah members clubs like you know the just sold houses and things like that.

Yeah. Like that's what people do, I guess. I went to a spot. I'm trying to think the last dinner we did. Was at the, I just had dinner with Nikki over there. Nicole was one of my best friends. What was that spot?

But yes, the private clubs is going crazy out. Yeah. Big time. The private spots. How has fatherhood changed your brain in the last? year. I forget. I know how it changed his.

I never had gray's before. Bro, me too. Why shit is just, and they, the weird thing is they come and they go. It's like, they're in and then they'll be like, all right,

I'm chilling. Some days I wake up with more grays and then they disappear. Yeah, yeah, they'd be like, I'm coming though. Like,

I should. The more of my daughter kicks me in the face at night, the more of the gray is come out. I'm getting that right now big time. The wake up with a slap. Yeah. I never thought I'd appreciate it so much.

But I love it. It's amazing. Best wake up ever. Dad brain is a real thing. Yeah. I'm forgetting all of a shit all the time. I didn't know I could be this tired and just still be like, all right, well, make it work. I have a tremendous appreciation for my parents in a very different way.

For sure. We were talking about this in the kitchen. It's like people do say that it's like, you do feel that way. It's like the most life-changing thing. But it is scary. Yeah. I look at the world differently. I feel a big responsibility to both try and do something about what I see because it's going to be his.

And I also am like the most angry and protective that I've ever been, which I think it's a sign of maturity, oddly. I'm like, oh no, you actually, it's not all good out here and everything is going to be all right just because it's going to be all right, you know. And I think I took that. I was very much in that like, Manifested, it's going to be good. Yeah. It's like, nah, you're going to have to make that shit happen. Yeah, it's crazy the feelings of going from feeling so insignificant

once you have a child because this is the most important thing to, wow, I am the most important person because I'm teaching, my dumbass is teaching you everything you need to know. And it's like, am I, should I be doing that? Yeah, it'll have you questioning. I was tripping that they just gave us the baby after he was born. like, all right, go home. I was like, that's it.

You're not going to show me how to get him into this car seat? Like, how to, yeah, like, I'm like, am I going to break him? Like, can we like, is it? It's a, you know, me. They brought us to, like, our, you know, the room after she gave birth. And they just put Amara in the shit and closed the door. We was like, wait. It's like, peace.

No, no, no, no. Come back. I need to have some questions. Show me how. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. How did you wrap them up like that? Okay, can you at least show me that one more time?

Yeah. I do feel, and I don't want to say, the word that I was going to say is inadequate, but it's not that I feel inadequate. I feel I'm aware that I don't have the answers. Yeah. You know? And we were talking about that like, damn, shit.

Because my son is one, so he's going to be at, and you're saying your daughter's two. Two. Yeah, two. Yeah. Yeah, he, when he starts asking those questions, I don't know. I don't know, son. I really don't know.

But you know what, though, I will say that. I will feel comfortable saying, I don't know, son. Let me, let's look it up. You know, like, I do feel good about that. I don't feel like I have to have the answer. Yeah. To that place, because for the first, like, few months where, you know, she was really starting to have, like, real thoughts and questions. I was so insecure of, like, I don't know anything.

thing. Like she's asking simple and profound questions. I'm like, I don't fucking know. Now I've gotten more comfortable with saying, I don't know. Yeah. Like I have no. And I feel like that prepares them as well because she's not going to know shit. And sometimes she's like, I don't know. Yeah. Let's figure it out. Let's find out. Yeah. I think that's the opportunity. I will probably be hidden chat GBT though. I'll be like, so why is the moon so big today? I'm like, I don't know. That's a good question. Yeah. So listening to this project, well, back to the, you know, the lack of features. I don't know, were there any features on this project?

Just George Clinton in the very end, which is a dream. He just threw, you know. He just threw George Clinton. Yeah, just, just George Clinton. Only, not just, I'm sorry, only George Clinton. That's intentional for sure. Good thoughts, bad thoughts has been a big, had a big impact in my life. Has had a big impact in my life.

And because this album kind of like represents, I feel like a turning point for me, it's personal. I wanted it to be just about the overarching where I'm at, you know? And just George is his words. And in that song, if you've never heard good thoughts, bad thoughts, the first two and a half, three minutes is just soloing. And then the second half is George Clinton just speaking deep, deep truth. Yeah. The kind of truth that's like a breath of fresh air and also like feels like it's ominous. It's like an ominous truth that's stuck with me since the very first time I heard it.

And a lot of those, a lot of that is like core belief for me. Like travel like a king. You know, it's like. your thoughts like careful of the plant seeds you plant in your mind because seeds grow according to their kind you know it's like deep things that resonate with me and things that i you know want to instill in my son and i think it is those core beliefs that really help push me push through some of the change in this album um that i was i just it was a dream to have him on the album and and it all the more makes him being on the last song which is called a beautiful i'm sorry not

because um comma karma uh it makes it even more important so yeah he he blessed me bless me there as a as a as a musician and songwriter what is mcgels what is your greatest one song greatest not yours and just the one of the greatest song you've ever heard i'm telling you this is my favorite song of all time so good thoughts bad thoughts by funkadelic great one of the greatest songs of all time one of my top of any and it's and it's it's not just the second half it is the first half feels it's like transcend it's transcending you know it's you're you can close your eyes and it's it's going to take you to a whole other place yeah and then the second half is like a double down on like just belief systems and and to think that

it was it came at a time in the time that it came is just like just so far ahead you know yeah you know George is a visionary and I mean he's made just shit that's going to last forever and ever and ever so yeah that makes so much sense though that that would be because I feel like kaleidoscope dreams even is like a continuation of maggot brain yeah it is like yeah very much funcadillic maggot brain to me would be kaleidoscope dreams of that time so yeah it does make a lot of sense how did that whole you know relationship with him even how did it happen bro how did that with George Did they just reach out? Because he was working on something?

He would work in something. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, it was just kind of one. He just wanted me to do something. That's wild. It was one of those, you know. Like, is this a prank call type of moment?

Yeah, it was like that. It was like, really? Are you sure? George Clinton. Yeah. So, yeah, it just came about that he was working on a project and his team reached out. And I was like, tell him. Good thoughts, bad thoughts is like one of my favorite songs of all time and it's like changed my life.

And I told them the story how I heard the song the first time I was at Coachella. I was driving windows down. I don't know who left this CD in my car back. This is back before when Coachella was still in electronic music music and arts. You know, it was like an electronic festival. Yeah, something totally different. Yeah, it's very different. Very different.

Very different. And I was coming from a long night. I did all kind of shit. and I was driving back to my little shitty motel that I found last minute and I popped the CD in just because I was like windows are down I'm high. Do not advise anyone doing this.

You know it's a wild night when you don't even know who left the CD in your car? Oh, I don't know. I still to this day don't know who left that seat in my car but I put this and the first thing that came came on was this and it comes in kind of soft it kind of creeps in and after a long night it was like you're high, the window's down,

the sun is coming up, I've got like the mountains on my right and the sun is coming up on the left and I'm just like, the wind is blowing, but it's hot because you're in, you know, India. It does it, yeah. And this guitar comes in and it's like magic.

And I'm just going. And I'm driving, it's taking a long time to get there. I'm driving for some time and it feels good and all of a sudden travel like a king. And I'm like, I've swerve

I'm like because it's jarring It's kind of scary Yeah But I get I gain control of the car Almost you know I crash almost crash out Get control of car And I you know tighten up

And in that time I must have been really too high So it soared me up one Yeah But it also locked me in And I listened to it to just George Clinton Just speaking the just deep deep truth

And that shit hit me so hard And it's still to this day, again, it's something that I'll play for my son. And it's one of those songs that I'll just always be like, it's. Yeah, it's stuck with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful.

Are you a Miss Rachel family? Are you, what's your go-to with screen time? Screen time. For him? Yeah. No screen time. Love it. Right now.

No screen time. You say that now. I know. You're going to give in. No, I'm counting down the days. I'm like, when can we start doing? Yeah. Screen time, please, because...

Yeah. Wait until you're in Holland Tunnel traffic. It's like, all right, take the iPad. Yeah, yeah, here. Just here. Just take it. Take it. Yeah, he's definitely trying.

I need to get like a disguise, like a book or something, like something to make it not look like it's a phone because he knows exactly what this is. And he's like... Which is crazy. Oh my God. He's like, I mean, he picks it up and moves his thumb around. Like, he knows what he's doing.

And I'm like, all right. Yeah. Yeah. Before we let you go, I have kind of a random yet nerdy, question, what is your relationship with Blue like these days? Man, Blue is, for those of you that don't know, Blue and I go back to high school. Yeah. We went to high school together.

And I mean, we talk on text here and there, but we actually haven't kicked it in a long time. But that's my brother. Like, he's, that's my brother. You know, one of the most talented rappers ever. If you have not listened to Below the Heavens, go do yourself a favor. Everyone listened to a classic album called Below the Heavens. Man, he's still crushing with exile, him in exile. You know, we're like, it's just online text message kind of, kind of like keeping up.

But there's always like one or two things in a year of it. I'll catch him at it. It's either an anniversary that we get to kick it or it'll be like a little family hang. It'll be me, our boy B, he's like kind of like our bigger brother figure growing up. but yeah we'll have a hang once or twice in a year but we haven't kicked it in a long long time yeah yeah as a fan i would love for a blue and mcgill ep at some point i honestly feel you know what me too like i think that would be incredible especially in this time i i absolutely was like we we've been you know just like keeping keeping up a little more regular i feel like

it's like it's lean them that way yeah when it's supposed to happen With timing. Also, also because, you know, when he, when he found out that I was, you know, having a son or whatever, he was just, he has some kids as well. That's a whole other thing, too. When your friends become parents and you're also parents, it's like, oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. You just start to, and you look at life different.

You know, you look at the journey. You're like, ah, so it makes you want to lock in even more. Who gave us kids? Yeah. I can't believe we don't. How did they let us do this? It's crazy. It's crazy.

So yeah, I would love a, I would love that. Yeah, I think it would be really special. Yeah, it would be really special. Is there any producers that you haven't worked with that you do want to work with outside of you and for real working again at some point? Yeah, right, right. There's a lot, man. I've been blessed to be able to do this kind of self-sustainably and, and then work with a lot of incredible, you know, incredible producers along the way already. I've never done any music with shit.

I want to do something with Trent. Okay. Fly low. We've been talking about doing music for some time. I think Fly Low is one. I've already, like Dave knows, Dave Sidick is on my last two albums. We've done work together. And he was really integral in helping me get my mind around this album.

But I'd love to do a full project with Dave Sidic. Jeff, I'd love to do a lot more with Jeff Basker. That's also a brother. like friend and um he's just incredible uh i want to do something like primo got to do it we got to do a full one yeah because he's been gracious enough to have me on some stuff before and that's why i love because primo would lock a week out and just he'll go crazy he's a legend but also we'll be like oh let's just work for we just do it yeah yeah pream he'll for sure for sure do that yeah that would be fired we have yet to do that preem i know

I know we need to do that. Have you worked with 1,500 and nothing? We haven't. Like, being an L.A. native, I feel like that's such a no-brainer that you would be, you and Rance, like, would. That is, that is one of those ones where I'm like, yeah, why hasn't that happened? Why hasn't it? You're right.

That's actually one of those ones that I always, it's crazy because when you're at home, you forget, it's kind of like going to, like, fashion week. You, like, run into everybody. You're like, damn, but we live in the same city. Right here. Every day. But we're kicking it the hardest out here. Yeah.

You know? But that is a, yes, yes, $1,500 or nothing. We haven't done a single record together. Yeah, that's wild. It's crazy. We need to change that. Yeah. We need to change that.

And I mean, even just you and James on the writing side as well would be incredible. That's one of those. That's another one. And I think James, the reason why is because I always catch James like a one, like, one off kind of vibe. And it's like, let's get one in and what happens. What needs to happen is, to lock in with James, like, early and, like, the whole process be like,

okay, we're working together through the whole process. I think that would be the better one. We said that the last time we actually... Yeah, you got to catch him at like a convention where you buy samurai swords or something. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You got to go in his world. It's true.

It's true. It's very, very true. I got to catch him on a Japan trip or something. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think you and No ID would be incredible, too. Man. That's something that I also have, like, why is Miguel?

No ID never... No ID never... No ID. Fuck, there's people that I'm not thinking of right now. Again, dad brain is a real thing. But we've also talked. We've also spoke before, like, no ID. Like, we've been in the set.

I'm a massive fan. I'm like, we've been in touch. It just hasn't happened. Yeah, we love that to happen. Because artists are too stubborn, man. They don't want to send the first text of like, hey, let's follow up and actually work. Yeah. You know, it's true, though.

Yeah, it's true. It's true. It's artist ego. But yeah, I wouldn't, for me, I wouldn't say ego. It's just that I forget. I mean, seriously, I literally forget. And you know what? I have a thing about asking people to do anything.

Like, I hate to ask people for anything. I'm the same. I don't want to ask. Like, I feel bad. I'm like, ah, because I never want to make anyone feel uncomfortable. And then also it's all super personal. And then so there's like a little bit of like, ah, damn. Just like, I don't want to add to that.

that yeah yeah so but i but i'm working on it for sure i am yeah yeah do we think the rnb rap hook combo will come back everything reinvents itself on i feel like that 16 rmbb hook 16 rmb hook has kind of disappeared it's it's gone yeah oh no i think it's still i think it's still room excuse me i think it's still room for that oh i definitely oh i think it's room for it i just think that artists don't do it yeah that's that's kind of disappeared well look so selfishly I'll say that it, to a degree, I'm not, I'm not the, I'm not the most for that. Only because it, it sort of relegates the R&B part and the singer part is like, you just do the hook and then we do the verse.

Yeah. Fuck that. But I do miss some of it. You know, I do miss some of it. So, yeah, I think an iteration of that is necessary. It's going to come back. I might be behind it. I don't know.

Oh, that. I could see it in time. You've had a few good ones. Yeah. You've had a few that landed on the charts. Like, I've definitely, like, floated the idea of, like, just executive producing an entire album with all female emcees and where I just do the hook or we bring in people to do the hook and just like, yeah.

I like that. And I mean, even if it's not as structured as insert first here. Yeah. But I think it's needed. Right. That's interesting. I think it will bang. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. All right, the album, October 23rd. October 23rd, Kyle, it's the album, my fifth studio album. and we'll go out on the road in February. So pull up. Yeah. Get your tickets to see Miguel, one of the most talented. We got to support real musicians, real artists.

Miguel, it was a pleasure meeting you, talking to you finally. We've crossed, we've crossed paths before, but this was like our first official. The inaugural hang, yeah. Yeah, like, so it's good to see you. Album sounds incredible. Thank you, bro. Thank you for helping me clean the crib last night. I appreciate that.

Spotless now. Spotless. I could have everybody over there. It's been dirty for eight years. I've been waiting for Miguel. I'm sorry, man. It's been a big bin for eight years. But now it's spotless.

Thanks to Miguel. Miguel, thank you. And I'm definitely going to catch you when you're on the road. Got to come see the show. Yes, I love to have you guys. I'm that nigger. That's Miguel. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all. that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

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