New Rory & MAL - Episode 110 | Cyhi the Prynce on Kanye, Virgil, & Writing ‘Sicko Mode’

Episode Date: October 14, 2022

This week the guys are joined by Hip-Hop legend, Cyhi the Prynce to discuss paying for samples, the importance of a marketing budget, the "college" era of hip-hop, top 5 artists of the moment, the negative connotation on ghost writing, drug rap vs drill rap, Kanye's GAP & Adidas beef, Cyhi's favorite G.O.O.D. Music artists, and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future.

This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component

to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon. And this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am.

I wouldn't go that far. But I'm John Green. Co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager.

And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest story. ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Benny had told us yesterday in that same chair, speaking of ghostwriting, that he wrote a verse for Pinky, the porn store. What was his swap?

See, that's a great question. We ain't even, we ain't even asked that. Hey, bruce. No, but what? Don't even worry about it, Pinky. No, Warren. My life is Leonado in the Revenant. Listen in the lead playing.

I ain't talking Zepplin. Boston George before we got to blow. I'm out here, Johnny Deppin. The only thing the police don't find on me is a weapon. Blessings. Never believe in luck. Read up, so keep it up. And you'll be back to selling cuties.

In the hood, you get shot up. You go out like fellow couty. Amen. All right, welcome to another episode of the new Rory and Mall podcast. I am all. I'm Rory. And today we are sitting with a very, very special unique. person, artist, creator, somebody that I've been wanting to sit and talk with for a while.

Now, one of my favorite artists. Definitely one of my favorite rappers. And I feel like his story and his career is something that a lot of people who should know about, that don't know about. Very talented. And I feel like he got a lot to say. So I feel like we had to open up our platform and sit and have a really, really dope, really cool conversation with the talented.

Sa'i. Yes, sir, yes, sir. Thank you for having me. First of all, it's good to see you. Man, great to see you. We've been honestly, long as we do. Yeah, Roy and myself been wanting to sit and talk with you for a while now. So I'm glad we was able to make it happen while we're down here in Atlanta.

Absolutely, absolutely. We could start right away, I feel like. So I've rewatched your live from, what was that maybe three weeks ago? Mm-hmm. All 50 minutes. What sparked that entire live? For those that don't know, you went on live unearthed some things, unearthed some things about current, the past, just your career in general. What sparked that?

Who pitched you off that day? I think it was a combination of a few things, but I could tell you, the main story was like with my management. Like, you know, we in Atlanta have a traditional one. way of breaking or, you know, introducing artists or putting out records, et cetera. And, you know, me being able to have the luxury to move around, be around A-list artists, see how, you know, their team is structured and how these guys are cultivating these records. You know, I come back home and I just get dormant because everybody here is just like on the street level of thinking.

And, you know, I kind of like, you know, wanted to just like explain my story to the world because it's rough being, what would I say? Unfortunately, I have to say this. It's rough being famous, but everybody want to know, when you're how I'm coming out and what's going on and this and that.

And, you know, you can't really explain it to them because they don't really know. So I felt like, you know, that was my, time to like really save my peace to like directly to my fans so they know what's going on but also like really truly ask

that question about retiring from music because to me it's like it's not about the music anymore. You know what I'm saying? So I could, instead of wasting my time I can go do some other things that was productive, that is productive in my opinion that I can still be creative

with versus trying to you know convince said person that oh man this record you should clear this sample with Kanye and Ty Dollar on it it's like you know what I got this Jack Harlow

and two trades record you should like really try to shoot a video for it's like you know what I mean it's like I've done all these great things and cultivated these records and to piggyback off that you know I give up a lot of my percentages to get these records and these

swaps okay you get what I'm saying So for, you know, when you bring it to a label, you got this 50-50 deal or whatever you got with this label, and they're looking at it like, oh, they want to half-ass with it. It's like, I didn't half-ass with this. Now, I'm okay. I didn't half-ass with this when I was putting this together. So that's kind of where the conversation came from,

just, you know, having that conversation with management, along with the label that you signed to and just trying to get everybody on one accord. At what point do you feel like it stopped being more about the music? Was that just as a recent? This is a real question. I think it stopped being about the music when the streets didn't like their home boards rapping about their lives and they felt like they wanted to.

Okay. That's the real conversation that don't nobody want to talk about. The reason why I hate when rappers get this stigma, like, it's the most dangerous job. This is not the most dangerous job. is when you let the streets in on this job it becomes the most dangerous job you know what I'm saying we have yet to professionalize hip hop

okay we have it's always been like a free for all you know anybody can join yeah yeah niggas just can't get in the NBA bro right right you can't just be like yo Katie I'm your boy like yeah bring me on the next with you it's like nah bro right you can go to the suite

when the game come Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ain't anybody allowed in this, why I'm going to practice or traveling to the game or anything. So I think the biggest thing is like when we allow the streets to kind of dictate the art, you know what I'm saying? And it kind of just now it's almost like a bully tactic where y'all got to listen to who we want y'all to listen to. Right. But y'all ain't going to listen to nothing. And that's why I feel like the music industry has turned.

They don't want to tell the street dudes no. because they, you know, they scared of them or whatever the case may be. And like we were talking about earlier, you know, you no longer have to have dip set office in your office anymore, Rockefeller office. You just get them a distribution deal.

You know what I'm saying? Less of a liability because you don't actually have to deal with them in person. Right, right. Right, right. So it's a lot of things that I got a lot of ideas and just thoughts of how to, like, correct that. But I think the biggest thing is, you know,

artists, like I had an idea, right? I just put it in the universe. I remember when we used to be signed a dat piff and we used to not sign, but do our music through datpiffs and live mixtapes. You got spots like spin real and, etc. As a new artist, they should be able to give you a flat fee

and you should be able to put your music on their site and don't care how many spins you get, it don't count. it's only for promotional use. Now, if you're not signed to one of those three, let's say, small distributors, then a Def Jam or Universal can't just come sign you. Okay.

Because now if I sign you, I'm liable for you. See, like, for instance, Antonio Brown could punch a U-Haul driver and lose 18 million because they can't have that on their NFL shield. Right. But the nigger in his rap could beat a nigga up, shoot a knick, you know,

they're doing all the type of, you go to jail for two months, come out of jail, the labor, give him $50 million. Go do it again. You know what I'm saying? So now it's like, okay, if Universal sign me,

they got to get me health care. I got to get a pension after five years. You get what I'm saying? Like, if I get into legal trouble, you just is liable. So now a label can't just sign you for a monetary game. Now they got to really invest in who you are as a person. You get what I'm saying?

So it's like different things, like that that I feel that need to be implemented in rap. Like, if you play for the Timberwolves, you live in Minnesota. Yeah. You can't just live in Miami and play for the Timberwolves. Right. So if you work with Def Jam, you got to live in New York. You work with Empire, you got to live in San Francisco.

Right. You know what I mean? So it's like, keep you out of your neighborhood, keep you from having to politic with the streets and I'm not got to keep these dudes around. And now they're doing something. You know what I'm saying? Right. So these are the things that we have allowed to come into.

our art form and we haven't professionalized it. And I would like to say to all urban and black artists, we all from the streets. Even if you ain't from the streets, you're from the streets. You don't got no choice. Right. You know what I mean? So that's like my real testimony in rap is, you know,

I've been through a lot to like just to get to where I've been. And, you know, I have stories of stories. Like I've had deals from everywhere that I can, you know, I can't even speak on now. because, you know, they was in the past, but, you know, I've just been through a lot just in this city, through the streets, through music industry, you know,

really trying to get this positive message out, and it's always this street caveat where they like to add to artists. You know what I mean? Especially being from the mecca in Atlanta. I mean, I think it's funny you bring up what the labels should and could do for artists that they sign, but I feel like with this RICO thing going crazy

amongst rappers, It's going to make labels less attached to rappers. Because at some point, you could be financing a criminal organization as a Def Jam employee and not even fucking know. And now you're caught up in a RICO trial because you really have this person now on health insurance, life insurance. Like, you are now part of it. I feel like labels now are going to get caught up in that shit, especially if they start using lyrics for real in court cases, not so much as far as investigating. Once that shit is attached to a rapper in a court case, Def Jam financed a threat you made.

They're part of it now. So I think labels are going to get further away from artists, even outside of the office idea. We were saying like, yeah, you don't even have an office space here. Now it's like, you're going to be a 1099. I don't really know you like that. I have nothing to do with what you wrote. We just get a profit percentage off what you did.

But I think it's something that they'll be able to control, too. It's just, like I said, rappers got to know. Like, I got an idea. It's like, okay. when I sign you, I give you off-duty police or ex-military choose. Right. So now you ain't got to have a conversation with your

partner that, oh, you can't come to this show or, oh, you're a bitch-ed, nigga, you're just sold out. I'm like, no. No, hey guys. Right. Y'all are his friends, we got a skybox for you up there. Right. But y'all can't ride to this show with us. Right.

You know what I mean? So dudes be like, I can't have the police in my circle. I can't. Man, you got an ounce of weed, bro. If you need anything more than that to go to your show, bro. It's like, okay, y'all niggins ain't really gang-since because I don't met with the Mexican. I ain't drunk in a high meeting picking up 500 bags. Right, right.

I'm on point. Right. So if you're getting picking up a quarter million, you need to be on point. Right. That's the fact. So, what's the difference if y'all are really street? It's fucked up because, you know, we have to have those conversations or it's like the conversation you don't want to have with your homies.

Like, yo, listen, we can't move like this no more. And then like you said, they start looking at. at you like, oh, you changed. Yeah, you're acting funny. Yeah, and now they're looking at you like, fuck it, well, we're gonna, now we're gonna rob him. And we was talking to Benny yesterday about his situation in Houston, you know, when he got shot.

And then unfortunately we saw P&B rock in LA. And like you said, it's not that rap is the most dangerous job. It's that we start integrating street rules and street ethics and shit into business, into music business, because this is the business of music. So how do we get away from, Number one, like we was talking about the drill music. And Benny was saying, like, and even I said, I feel like the music is so different, it's

so violent now that I feel like it is influencing like real violence because not only are they rapping about it, they really out there doing it. And before it was like, like when you listen to early gangster rap, Snoop and all these guys, it's like, you listen to that now and it's really not as violent as we thought it was. Like Snoop wasn't banging on the tracks like that. These dudes is beefing on wax with each other. Right. So how do we get to a point where it's like, okay,

back to the art of storytelling, back to the art of hip-hop, back to the art of creating, you know, writing you. You don't know how to do it, but you're from that environment, right from the perspective of the guy that's on the outside, just telling the stories of what's going on in our communities.

Like, we used to be the representatives. Like, my favorite rappers was the representative of their communities. It wasn't that they were direct, person that they were talking about. You know what I'm saying? But I will say this. My favorite rapper is the one who kind of destroyed that thought for people, but they don't know his whole story.

People look at Jay-Z as a street nigger before a artist. And I would like to tell him he wasn't. He was an artist trying to get on. And they kept denying him. And that forced him to go get his own money. But he was already trying to go to the label He was as an artist You know what I'm saying?

But I think a lot of these guys say Screw getting turned down by some label I'm gonna get straight to the hustling So now as a label You go look for that guy that's just as authentic as a Jay-Z The new, you know what I mean The new authentic guys That was just as authentic as that

But these guys are like The real deal Authent version of this Like this don't belong on the TV and like I was going back to you, if you professionalizing and say, okay, you cannot do this, you cannot involve yourself in criminal this,

a lot of street niggas wouldn't rap. That's a fact. But then you always got these dudes like, man, these nigger talk about your life, bro, you should be rapping. Yeah, yeah. But that's not good advice. Right, right.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, let, bro, keep talking about my life. I'm going to keep doing my thing on the low. But when you make the niggas, street nigger, have to talk about his life, then that's when you, You bring in real criminals, real street dudes. You know what I'm saying?

That's when it gets diluted and we start. It turned into something else. It starts turning to something else. Hip-hop became so accessible and so, I don't want to say, easy to make. But back when Hove was coming up, you know, how hard it was to find a good beat. Right, right. Like, you had to go find a studio session to go find an engineer. It was a process.

You really wanted to have to do that shit. Now the guy that's really living what people rapping about could buy a MacBook and hit Spacebar and get a beat on YouTube. So you don't really have to want it. It could just be a lick. Like, oh, you rap about some shit I just did? I could really rap about it. It's like rap turned into a hustle.

Yeah, but when you professionalize you let him know that if you have any inkling of a criminal thing, this comes back on our label. So now we're responsible. So now if you're not going to retire from what you're doing, I can't sign you. And now he'll look at it like, I got a cool song. But it's cool.

I'm going to go back to do what I do, you know what I'm saying? Right, right. During your live, you had said something that made me laugh. And he was like, yo, I wish I was a backpack rap. Yeah. I feel like you came up in that era or got popular in the era where things shifted. It was more of the, I hate the term, but nerdy rap. Like, Cole was popping, Sean was popping, Drake was popping.

And then I feel like it shifted back to street rap. Yeah. did you feel that maybe that era could come back or why it's shifted to street shit? Because you're saying you're not a backpack rapper. What some would say just because you're lyrical and maybe don't rap about killing every day, you would be a backpack rapper. Right. And you came in the era when things changed.

And now it's back to this shit. Yeah, I think that era was a good time in music. But I don't, like the way you say nerd is a little weird because that's why I said I grew up different my lyricist wasn't nerd like Nause wasn't a nerd Jay Z wasn't a nerd DMX wasn't a nerd

Big L and like You know what I'm saying These guys were some real official dude For sure They were just Intelligence was popular back then It was book readers Yeah it's like

I remember my OG used to tell me Back in his day If you didn't graduate from high school You couldn't be the leader of a crew You was considered a send-off to them because the leader of the crew was an educated man with just no shoot-em-up bang-bang kind of guy. But yeah, I think what happened was

our lyricists turned into college kids and no disrespect to all our lyricists. But these are guys who dropped out of fucking whatever school, St. Pius, you know what I mean? Like Michigan State or whatever they go to and it's like, okay, you're rapping you a lyricist, but it's almost like for that genre of kids that are like in that realm of college and going to school. But you have real guys who listened to Wu-Tang growing up that were just street dudes that just love the articulation of it,

how you're putting the words together, making them flip, and still adding the street stories and the knowledge. You know, it was a lot of five percenters back then that was dropping knowledge into music and different things like that. So I think that's what it lost it because hip hop is really based on that struggle, that authenticity. And they felt like, these guys are a little cleaner than we look at hip hop as. So we converted right back to the essence of it, the grassroots, the concrete of it. Yeah, because I mean, I guess you could say what, the shift was probably when 50 and Kanye went to head-to-head with graduation. That's when the surge, I guess, happened.

So would Ye be the reason that the college era of rap really came? Yeah. I would say so. Yeah, he made it mainstream. He definitely made it mainstream. I want to talk about no dope on Sunday. Yes. And we was talking about it yesterday.

And we have it as a definitive classic. Classic album. I think it's safe to say now that time has passed a classical. Yes. Thank you. To go from that, and, you know, I thought when we got no dope on Sunday, I said, Sahai is about to fuck everybody up in rap. Because I thought it was going to be like, because I know how you write your work after.

I'm like, he about to keep hitting y'all every six, seven, eight months. He put something out. We got no dope on Sundays. Loved it. Amazing. I stopped putting it by, I'm like, oh, Sahai is better than all of these niggas. And then it was like, it seemed like business got in the way after that. Mm-hmm.

Do you think that that was purposeful? Like, shit just started to go crazy. And it was like, all right, the business is fucked up because, like, now we don't know when we get in Saha. We got story E guy and we'll get into that. But it's like, how can we never really got? And I want to, what happened to the seven track LP? Like, it's like a lot of things where I'm just like,

where the fuck is Saha at? And I know you went on the live and you know, expressed your grievances and your distaste for business and shit that was going on. But like, tell us, give us a story from, after you drop no dope on Sundays, what happened after that? So no dope on Sundays was something I put together. You know, I would say the biggest thing is these labels don't want to pay for samples anymore. You know what I'm saying?

So me having to be creative and find musicians to be able to replay these things, figure out how to, you know, remake these records. and to me they weren't, they weren't, they wasn't feeling like I wanted them to feel. So with No Doop on Sunday, I went through so much to put that out. I didn't even have a marketing budget. That's the funny thing.

I didn't even have a marketing budget. I went number one on iTunes and Spotify in the first week. You know what I'm saying? You're like begging the label, but like I said, they're so used to disposable cash from artists now. You know what I'm saying? They're so used to, oh, man, you're paying for everything,

paying for everything, paying for everything. and they don't understand that these guys aren't signed of real estate agents. They're not signed some bankers. These dudes are signed the real guys in the community that's making this money happen. I decided to leave the street, so I had to use a more strategic way

of putting out the projects. But what I will say is I was working on another album, but right when I was about to put it out, that's when the pandemic kind of came in and pushed us back a couple years. but I think the biggest thing with me, man, is like, there's two things. You know, me being from Atlanta, they expect me to be traditionally Atlanta and put things out how most Atlanta artists do.

But also, you know, if I become the greatest rapper alive, the standard will be too high for most other artists to compete with. So a lot of times people like to pick from my greatness, versus putting me in the place where they feel like they don't want to have to compete with this every day. Okay. So we'll just bring them in the session and you kind of help us with this and that.

We'll pay you handsomely and call it a day. But I don't feel like they don't. I feel like this is just now. I just feel like a lot of people just, you know, I've been humble about it and I've just been kind of giving them the benefit of the doubt. Like maybe he's, you know, you know, how you say, why this artist don't do it?

this or why this person don't do that. I just think now it's just I'm too lethal man. And they know I'm one thing about it, I'm from the streets, but I got the word of God in me and that's something they just, they can't compete with. Because once I, yeah, we can battle and we can go at it like, like your buddy Joe. He feel like he can rap as good as me.

Yeah, articulating yourself, you probably could. But when the spirit gets involved, you don't, you can't go to that rim with me. You know what I'm saying? When they come to performance, when they've come to giving you this shit, where you stay where you're at. You know what I mean? So I think that's where a lot of artists is.

They don't want the standard of music to be that high. So I think that's why I commend artists like your Kendrix, your Coles, your Joy Badass, your Chance the Rappers, those who still keeping it alive. But it's a heart of plight for me in Atlanta, just going against the whole trap era or by yourself. It's like me and Gid or some shit like that. And Gid is like staying out the way. He's like, you know what I'm going around?

You know what I mean? Like me? I'm like, okay, I got to deal with all this. You got to deal with radio. Don't want to play these type of records. They'd rather play this. So it's rough. I mean, I still think Atlanta has that scene outside of Gid.

Like Earth Gang, there's a lot of Atlanta lyricists. But we got to go outside of Atlanta. That's something I talk about like Earth Gang and Gid should be signed to someone from Atlanta. It's not Jake Cole. Grip should be signed to someone from Atlanta, not M&M. I should be signed by someone from Atlanta, not Kanye West. I feel you. We all

got to go outside the city if we don't fit trap. You know what I'm saying? Right. You know what I mean? Where in other situations, shit, Kendrick's from L.A. He's signed to a L.A. dude. Right. He ain't looked at it. Is he a gang banger? Is he a...

No, he's a musician. He's an artist. He's signed to a L.A. label. You know what I mean? So I think that's the thing is just trying to really diversify the city and let them know that all of this is us. Andre 3,000 and Outcast and GoodyMive was just as pivotal as a GZ, as a T.I. Absolutely. You know what I mean?

In Atlanta. So I would like to say that. What do you feel, I mean, we love QC. I think QC is one of, if not the most important label. Yes. Not just because of music. They're just the most important label for what they represent, with how they do business.

I love coach MP. Do you think they purposely stay away from the more non-trap? Because, I mean, people think little baby could really rap. People will call him lyrical, but again, it's all trap shit at the end of the day. Do you think they purposely stay away from artists like a jib or like a you or like an Earth gang? We love Jid, by the way. Yeah, yeah, me too. No, no, me too.

That's family. Yeah, that's family. I think they do because, you know, like, to be honest, that's a thinking sport and something is like a money sport. You know what I'm saying? And they're good to me with the money sport. Not saying they're not thinkers, but, you know, it's more just strategy on this end versus like, okay, we know where we want to go. We don't flood the market quantity, make sure he's everywhere. You know what I'm saying?

Make sure it look good. But I think he's the most open to it, though. I just, I don't know if anybody has brought it to him like that, but I think he's at the place where he could branch out. And now he, QC and them does have that, those connections and that roller decks to be able to break a art as far as just touring and, you know, marketing, digital marketing, publicity versus like having to actually go to the strip club. Right.

You know, going to Chitlett Circus and different things like that. So I think they're the only label that. really the reason why QC and P and P and them is good because QC trusts Coach K and vice versa. Right. You know what I mean? He added Coach K to help him make more sound decisions and feel comfortable about what artists he, you know, working with.

And it allows P to go all in on that artist. Because you know he got somebody that know what to do with whatever I'm about to give him. You know what I mean? So I think that's like a match made in hell. That's like if everybody could be signed to QC, I would, yeah, I think everybody should be in Atlanta, you know what I mean? Everybody should be signed a QC. And that's what I do want to say like, you don't see no death jam buildings down here. Right.

Don't see no universal building. You don't see Sony. You don't see none of that. We're the, we're the mecca in the biggest, you know, let's say city for hip hop at this moment. And nobody has came down to be like, okay, we're going to set up shop here. Right. Which is crazy. That's odd to, especially with like even overhead

It's cheaper down here. Like, why the fuck? They won't come down here. Because at the end of the day, bro, I'm gonna keep it a buck with you. For how much money they got to spend to get these records off the ground, it really, it really breaking even. I'm just keeping it a buck with you. It's just we such hustlers in Atlanta that we make it look good.

Okay. We make it look like we're selling a lot of records. Right, right, right. But we're really not. Yeah. Right, right. You know what I'm saying? If you look at like,

Jay Cole is really selling records. Absolutely. There's maybe four rappers that really so when it comes down to it. Yeah. You mean in Atlanta or in the world? The world. Yeah.

But no, I mean, you got your Tyler's, you got your Kendricks, you got, you know what I'm saying? Chance to give you some good numbers. I wouldn't even put chance there anymore.

I wouldn't even put chance there anymore. And I love, no disrespect to him, but I think he's so rich. Numbers-wise, I think it's low baby does well. Kendrick, Cole, Drake, Tyler. I don't know if we consider Travis a rapper or an artist, but there's really only four or five rappers that sell.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. But I'm just thinking, you can say that, but if I only have to spend $150,000, $200,000 on your album and you doing 150 first week, that's great as a label. But if I got to spend $3,400,000 and you only doing $100,000 first week, the numbers are similar, but my return. isn't the same. So I think that's why the labels haven't came here yet because they know as much as we have to spend on these projects, the return of it is not

what we need. Now the artist is getting their money, but they're not doing 360s with us. So they're not going to give us none of their touring, their merch and anything. So while we come down there and set up shopping, we'll just wait for y'all to get it done and get y'all a distribution deal. How was it working with

the whole Wyoming situation? We talked to Benny yesterday. He told us how he was there. He said, you know, being in the room with Sahai and all these other guys, meeting havoc for the first time. He said, you know, it was like for a rapper, a rapper, a rapper. It was like a dream come true just being in that environment. In those rooms, being who you are, how do you feel, one, changes you as an artist and as a writer,

challenge you as an artist or writer? and how much of it are you like turned off by it? Like this ain't really what I want to be doing. Well, I'm never turned off by it because I do know I'm working with a trailblazer. So I will say that, you know, you do have some influence over the world, even though it's not direct, you know what I mean, contact with them. It's through another artist. But it kind of just shows you how big your business can be.

Like a lot of times guys come out there and really see like infrastructure. You really see a man with 178 employees and know everybody by their first and last name. You know what I'm saying? That's special.

Yeah, nobody's, you know, you know, I ain't going to see that in the regular rap realm. You know what I mean? You'll be like, like in the music department, we'll have 40 people on the ranch doing music. Then we'll jump in the truck

and drive to a warehouse. He got another. 50, 60 people doing shoes. Then, you know what I mean? We ride to another warehouse. He got another 40, 50 people doing architect and real estate. It's just like, and you just drive into these compounds with him

and all these people on his payroll. It's crazy. You know what I'm saying? So this man is like, he's serious. Like, that's why I tell people, I can't, you can't really say nothing to a nigga who got that much conviction. You know what I'm saying? A nigga want to fight Mike Tyson. I've been trying to tell him not

too, but when a nigga look at you in the with that much pay, okay, bro, we're gonna get you together. Right. Like this, you gotta run eight miles a day. If I'm a friend, I'm making sure you don't fight, Mike. Yeah, nah, nah, because, nah, if you got this passion here, can you have been to who my Tyson ass? Yeah, yeah, with his passion.

Yeah, with his passion, you don't never know. Passion, sure. But I understand some dudes get scared, bro, and this dude think he's super tough, and the scared dude whoop his ass. Yeah, yeah, sure. Because he's just, he just clicked into that moment. So it's like, that's why I try to tell people, it's like, it's tough with Yeh

because when somebody go that far for their, for their point in their conviction, you got to let a man walk in his own life. Can't just turn that because you don't want to- You don't want to get to heaven and God be like, hey, man, you know I sit there. You know the guy, Kanye, I said that. I'm like, yeah, I know him. You know, you told him not to do something. Yeah.

I did. So, you know, going to step to the right. No, no, hold on, God. Yeah. You know what I mean? Not me. Not me, man. I'm afraid.

After watching your live and speaking of, speaking of Yeh, the first question I had once the live was over was, does Sahai think all these important relationships that he has with some of the biggest artists in the world? Has that helped you or hindered you more in the long run you feel like? Because one would be like, yo, I fuck with. Yay, Travis. Every big arts you could think of. I fuck with Drake. I write for this person. I write for this person.

One would naturally think, oh, that's amazing. That's probably made his career. What I was looking at that after the live, like, this shit might have pigeonholed him and held him back with all the relationships that people are dying to have. Like, that might have fucked you up more after I listened to that rant. Well, as a writer, it's always helped. But as an artist, I could say it probably could be 50-50.

Because, I mean, like, let's just say when I was signed a death jam, they knew Ye was moving into fashion, so they wasn't eager to, like, put me out and have to find somebody else to be in there with them in so many words. Like, I was just a guy there that they know, if Saha's around, people rap. That's like the thing that people bring me in for. Like, man, bring so high in, man, he's just going to make sure we get in here and just start rapping.

So I think that's the thing. And a lot of times when you work with an artist that big, they don't want to find another piece to implement in that if this guy's already comfortable with this said writer or artists or, you know what I mean, person. So they kind of tried to massage me with that early on. And due to me being in, I would say, a bad deal. that time, you know what I'm saying? That was an outlet for me to still be creative. You know what I'm saying?

But by time, like, when y'all got no dope on Sundays, that's when I had just got out of my terrible situations. You know what I mean? It took me about four or five years to, like, fight it. Because you got to build up enough cachet to go against, like, you know, at that time, I was signing like Acon and his brother. So, you know, they got their thing. So until you get somebody that could really get you out of it,

you're just in it. Right. You know what I mean? So I think it was good and worse, but I think it was good. I think as a writer, I'm in a great place. But I just know as an artist, I have more to say, and I think the devil be working. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying?

For me saying what I need to say, so it's something I just got to work through. Are you, because the story of Egot, to me, was brilliant because, like you say, you're a writer. That doesn't just mean music. Like, you was actually writing, like, a play. And, you know, it was like a whole presentation. And it was a title exclusive, if I'm not mistaken, right? It was only, was it only on title? As far as the story he got?

As far as the visual. No, no, no, no. We get the visual at. Well, we had different visual. You're talking about, I think you're talking about barcode or. You did a sketch thing with title. Yeah, that was something I did with title. That was something we did in the pandemic where I was bored in the house.

I was just like, man, we got to get out here and do something. We all just did some shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's just do some shit. I had to just do some shit. But I think the story of EGOT is something that I put out an EP of it just to get the fans back engaged. But I'm actually finishing up the album as we speak. So it should be out late this year, like November, same time around, No Dope on Sundays.

Okay. I'm a wintertime artist. I like to draw music in the winter where people got the windows up, you close-knitted, you're in the house. You ain't just out having fun in the club. It's just random shit playing. I like my music to be like some kind of, you know, some kind of focus, some kind of, you know, camaraderie when you listen to it, like, you know, around family on the car, holidays. So I think that's a good time for me to release my album. With the writing aspect, again, back to the live, since then, have you viewed those writing sessions different as far as expectations?

Like, now, give me my full publishing on this because I'm not ever expecting of a swap. No more swaps. Hey guys. No more swaps. Yeah. Y'all don't want to honor the swap. Your label don't want to honor it. All that.

I'm good on the swap. Cut me my chick. Yeah. I mean, did you take that shit personal though? I do. I mean, I don't, but I do. It's like, I gave everybody I worked with,

but I give them a pencil long enough they're going to draw themselves. You know what I'm saying? So nobody can say nothing about my lie because I ain't told one lie. Right. You know what I'm saying? I let the motherfucker play me four, five times

before I said what I said. So now they just got to sit back and listen to me and you said. They kind of been waiting on me to say it like, damn, all right. I got what I needed from, you know? You said a lot. You know what I said a lot on that live. But I mean, I didn't say nothing.

I really said what was just true. Yeah. The truth. And it just shows you what an artist. That's why it's the story he got. I want to let them know. Me and Sam, Smith don't got the same plight to get to that

Grammy stage. You know what I'm saying? He ain't been in them fist fights. He ain't been in them shootouts. Right. He ain't been in them jail sales. He ain't been in them terrible deals. Like, you don't hear no you don't hear a lot of white artists talking about, man, I got a bad deal. Right. Yeah. Right. But you hear

urban and black artists, we have bad deals all the time. We have terrible deals and we have to get them to okay deals. You know what I'm saying? Right. I have to work and sell triple platinum boo-woo. Most of them artists come in Justin Timberlake had a great deal

when he came through the door. Right. Right. Justin Bieber, whoever, it's like they have a great situation. So I think that's the story of Egan, what it really is. It's like, you know, by the time I got to the Grammy stage,

I was exhausted. My time I met Kanye, people don't even know, bro. At 17, I was offered seven deals. But I was, in a rap group and I was signed to some street dudes. And what happened is the labels figured out how to get my number. This is Clyde Davis.

This is when L.A. Reed. This is what was the other guy we met? It was a bunch of them guys back then when it was like when record labels were still thriving, you know? And they was called my phone and be like, yo, we love your group. We love everything about you. But we really just want you. We see that you're the nucleus of this thing

and this is why we want to go. But you're signed to some dangerous guys. Mm-hmm. And I don't think you know that as a young man. And I'm like, yeah, I've been growing up. I kind of been, because, you know, you get with these guys, you're 14, 15. Right, right.

Like you know, but you don't know. You don't know, you know what I'm saying? They just tell you, right, here, boom, and they're purposely hiding it from you to begin with. Right, right. They hiding it from you. You don't want you know too much. But as you get older, you kind of start putting two and two together.

And that's why I had to start making my way to be a solo artist. But back then, from 2002 to 2005, I was like the most sought-after rapper in the music industry that nobody ever heard about because I was signed to some gangsters. And it was like, we was like, we don't want to do the Shignight thing again. They weren't that bad as we think about it. But I'm a kid still. So it's like, I might not think they're that bad. for adults that know them, know them?

Like, no, they're that bad. You know what I mean? So I think like around that time, like you said, the Kanye and the 50 thing came and the stars shifting on what type of artists they wanted to listen to. And I was always the lyricist, so I fell right in with, you like, the big shons

and, you know, the Wiz Khalifers in that era, the wallets and different things like that. I mean, I feel like even Lupe was signed to killers. I feel like even the lyrical rappers at one time were signed to some crazy shit.

Yeah. Anybody that got, you know how it is and, you know, somebody in the hood got money and, you know, EZE was a street guy.

Right, right. You know what I'm saying? NWA. All of that came from just, you know, a street guy on the block believing in them and putting that whole thing together.

So that's just part of the DNA, I guess, of hip-hop. Yeah, you just got to go through that. I mean, I guess the catch-22 is do you stay with the street guys where it could get dicey

or do you go to a label to get fucked? Like, you kind of can't win for losing as an artist. I think maybe staying with the street guys from your neighborhood is probably the better bet at that point. I think it's important. If you're from the streets, which we all are, like you said, it's important to always have some knowledgeable guide in the mix of that, though.

You got to have somebody that is not too intimidating, that knows how to play chess, that knows how to, you know, massage these relationships correctly. Because if you're just coming in with just money and street ethics, that's a, That's a recipe for disaster. Right. That's going to go bad. That's really, really fast. Like you said,

Rico's going to start coming down, all kind of shit. Yeah, you're going to have a billboard in Atlanta that says BMF. Yeah, like, you don't want to go to that. You don't want to do that.

You know what I'm saying? You don't want to do that. Who's in your, uh, your top five artists right now? Right now? Today. Kodak.

I'll put Rory on Kodak now. He's a Kodak fan. Oh, that Kodak stand at this point. Like, yeah. Bro, like, he's so special, bro. We can get into that.

Matter of fact, when y'all tones, I would love to hear Asai and Kodak right there. Yeah, I like Nardo Whitt. Nardo was fine. Nardo Whick hard, bro. That's Nardo's manager right there. For real?

Yeah, Nardo hard, bro. Yeah. Nardo hard. Who else do I like? I'm still, like, into, like, if you want to just, you mean just all around or just up becoming new artists like that I feel like.

Both. Both. Okay, well, I would say, let me say my young artist. Like, I like Baby Kim. I think he's special. Who's another artist that I like that is coming up? You know, I've noticed rappers don't listen to rappers. Every time we ask a rapper about rap, they're like, I don't know.

Well, we hear artists, but we don't, like, I don't listen to rap. I hear rap. Yeah, and you're not a consumer the way Mall and I are. You view things. I can't listen to too many rap because you'll start saying like, I feel like a lot of artists just grew up so much, listen to Drake, that they end up sounding like a bunch of Drake's.

And they can't shake it. Like, I'd be hearing it on like video games and shit, like, you know, man, and some of you guys. I'm like, is this Drake? Like, nah, this is like, I'm like, I knew Drake wouldn't do this for 2K. But it's like. It's a timeout, 30-second timeout, and 2K and Drake comes on? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I think I like Lady London. Isn't that her name? Yeah, Lady London? I like Lady London. Yeah, she's dope. I like, what's my guy? Is it? Foggy, I just got on.

You know, Foggy? Foggy. Foggy. You heard of Foggy? Yeah, I know you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah, that's my boy. He's dope.

He's hard. I just like how he, you know, he put his shit together. Very different, his own unique shit. Yeah. I like him, man. So I think those are like my, five favorite right now that I just been like I always check on them

and see what they got going on. We don't have to get into like the actual details of the incident that happened to you in Atlanta because this is a glad and it's none of our business. Just how has your mindset and life changed since then? What perspective did you get out of that situation? I don't know.

I think it just put me back in that mode of like you know, when you kind of felt like you made out, you kind of relaxed a little bit. You feel like, oh, man, my life is going well. And now I'm back sticked up, moving low-key. You know what I'm saying? Just like, I don't want to move like this. I'm definitely 40.

You know what I'm saying? You're like, man, trying to be around here. Don't ask every day. But like, like I said, it's the black plight, man. It's like, it's rough. Even if you ain't got nothing to do it, you got something to do with it. You know what I mean?

You could just be in the wrong city at the wrong time, wrong restaurant. You know what I mean? Whatever. It's just like they were never like, rest of peace, P&B. You said white guy in there with a nice roll, you might go in there and snatch it off his wrist or something. You ain't going to kill him. You ain't going to kill him. And you may not even do it.

Right. But the one thing that we, you know what makes us victims, bro? And people want to come out there is because we live under this snitch jacket. Yeah. And as a black man. You are not allowed to tell or talk about what goes on in the streets. Right. So that's why a lot of times problems come to us because they know the guy

know that, okay, nine times out of the team, the police going to figure it out on their own. Because we're not allowed to talk about it. To talk about it or tell what happens. So that's kind of why a lot of trouble comes to us as well. Have you had any thoughts of like, bringing up artists under your wing and like really molding them and working with them. Because I feel like a lot of these artists now that, you know, they catch a record. It goes viral.

You know, then they got a deal. Then they're getting booked to do like, you know, walkthroughs and shit like that in a matter of a month. They don't have no real artist development. They don't know what they're doing. They don't know the music business. It's like we just caught a viral moment. Let's capitalize off of it. But to the ones that really have talent and have a skill set.

Do you see yourself like grabbing any of them and saying, all right, I'm going to help you avoid these pitfalls and these these bumps that I had to. You don't want to do this. It's a different game now. You don't have to do this. Do you see yourself getting into that mode of like, I'm going to really like usher in like the next superstar?

Yeah, I mean, that was kind of what my conversation in my life was about, about, you know, retiring and moving into an executive role or, you know, helping kids out. I've been really doing these writing camps and being able to let I really want to get in with the younger artists and show them how to express themselves without telling on themselves

or without having to feel like they got to uphold some image, how to be vulnerable, but still make it dope and still make it street. You know what I mean? I think a lot of times their rap's a sole first person. Yeah.

That it gives it all the way where sometimes you can use characters, You can use storytelling. You can implement certain things that give off the same energy, but it's not totally directed to you, but also being able to help them search through their own lives and kind of figure out different things to talk about.

They didn't know they can talk about, but if you put it in a, if you give it to them on a canvas that they can kind of like receive it on it. They can be like, oh, okay, I can take it to the next level. And I think that's something that I did with my writing, career that a lot of times I was never a ghost writer. You know, a lot of people like to say I'm a co-write ghost writer.

I was just a- Why does that get such a negative connotation in rap? Because everything black people do get a negative connotation. I'm just keeping it a buck, bro. Everything. Everything because you can walk, Adele can walk on stage at the gram, and she got 50 people behind it. They got a whole long. I want to thank the vocalist, the writer, the people.

But as a rapper, it can only be you and the engineer. Right. You know what I'm saying? That's a specific hip-hop type of shit. Because R&B, we don't really care who really wrote it. But, I mean, I think when you coming in the game, it should be just you and your close-knit friends. But when you're speaking for the community or speaking for the community of hip-hop or the genre of hip-hop, that's a collection of people. Like when me and Ye do records or, you know, me and Trave or, you know, Kendrick or whoever, those, those main artists who are going to be selected and on a grand scale, world scale to represent this genre of music, we have to come together from all walks of life and be able to say this is what rap is in 1995 or 2020 or et cetera, whatever Grammy year it is.

And we collectively brought you this artist. You know what I mean? This artist just isn't here just by itself because he went in the studio and smoked some weed and made a dope song. You know what I'm saying? Right.

For sure. No, I get that. Last time you spoke to Travis, what was the conversation? Man, actually last time I spoke to Trave, he actually... And I had Sean to that list. And who else did you bring up?

Oh. Actually, last time I was talking to Trave, he called and checked on me about my accident. Okay. that's how I talk to him. I know he's been going through his thing, but, you know, a lot of times it be their people, too. Their people don't be wanting to ask them about certain shit,

and, you know, it's understandable. Sean, me and Sean talk often, you know what I'm saying? But at the same time, it's like, these guys know where I stand. They know what they did. They know what I did. You know what I'm saying? They know how much I put into it.

It's just I'm such a humble guy. that they can't, they can't sense that sense of, damn, bro, I might, I might need to really return this favor. You know what I'm saying? I'm like a nigga who, like, give you, like, 10 favors before I kind of, like, try to nudge you, like, hey, bro, let me, you know what? You know what I'm saying? Niggas are just, just eat away at you.

And at some point, you just got to be like, hey, bro, you know what I'm saying? I'm just being humble. I understand you guys are successful. but, you know, I need a return on this investment. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I mean, do you feel some of Yey's actions made it difficult to coexist in good music? Because I feel like, you know, around the Wyoming time originally when Trump shit and all that,

Sean didn't distance himself, but he was dead quiet. John Legend, obviously, was on Instagram doing all that. You were on Twitter defending Ye. Push was quiet, but we always know his loyalty is going to be the Ye. Yeah. I felt good music got really weird at that specific time amongst, again, just as a consumer outside looking in. It looked like everybody kind of didn't know if they were friends anymore. Like, yo, you're not fucking with Ye, I can't fuck with you, but like it felt weird.

Then it was certain people had relationships with Drake, so it got even weirder. It just felt very odd with Trump, Drake, Kanye, that whole- Yeah interrupts the algorithm of billionaires. and that's the thing and people they try to you know and it's a negative

and a positive way towards the powers that beat but a lot of times what they'll do is yeah it's so successful and he kicking their ass that other rivaling companies would come pick at his crew

and they pick away and they try to take people away from him and put people against him and get him unfocused on what he's really trying to do so I think that's the biggest thing like, Ye start kicking their ass and, you know, you know, Louis Vuitton's like, oh, we have to,

we have to go find Virgil. Yeah. Nike's like, oh, these Yeezys are kicking our ass. Don C., Travis, yeah. Virgil, get over here. You know what I mean? It's like, because they know they can't compete with that man.

Yeah. We can say what we want about Kanye West. Hillary Clinton aligned herself with a Coke dealer from Virginia because of Kanye West. He said, push it to him. come here. Like, you know how crazy that is that a presidential candidate would have to be like,

all right, well, let me go get pushed. But let me tell you the difference about this drug rap versus drill rap. It was still ethics.

Yeah. And our raps. Jay-Z was still telling us how to dress, how to look a man in the eyes. This range is the little boy range. They're going to try to sell you that one. Get this one.

You know what I'm saying? Don't put no fucking funny little shit diamonds in your Rolex. Yeah. If it ain't the little. factory joints. You know what? Those are things that was,

that was educational. Yeah. I don't need to know how to load a gun and kill a nigga. I mean, so much of drug dealing is represent business

no matter what. It just happens to be illegal. Yeah, now the drill shit is an op around the corner that I want to kill. There's no business involved. It's just legitimately murder.

Yeah. So it's, and I mean, I don't want to, you know, completely shit on the whole drill stuff because this is their way of expressing themselves and they found a way

to, you know, but it's just like now it seems like they're monetizing off the violence. Yeah. And that's not good because that's going to end bad for somebody. Because even if you look at the feds or the drug, they ain't, man, the fairs know a lot of the niggas selling drugs. Yeah. But they ain't going to come get you into the body start dropping. Exactly.

So you could tell that's the difference between both rap. Yeah, we were selling our thing, but it was still in a secretive, secret society way. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But now it's just like you taunting people that you didn't kill. Yeah. that right there is like that's what's caused like

if y'all was just shooting shit up and then come rap about something different we wouldn't even be tripping on it but the fact that you taunting the other side and you damn they're like forcing them to come do something to you your friend then y'all got to go back and do something and that's like it's a real war you know what I mean

the saddest part outside of the obvious of kids actually dying is they're the last people that would even profit from the taunting music that they're making because it's the labels at this point that are legitimately, no one's dying at the label and they're getting all the profit.

So that's why I dislike drill music not because of what it is per se, but it's allowed hip hop to, the labels to steal even more from hip hop. Now it's kids really dying and they really are monetizing beef amongst children. And the kids are dying and no one's dying at the label, they just making money.

But those kind of artists ain't got no real deals like that. Yeah. They're getting 10% They get 90% of their own money, 80%. Because labels ain't really Not no label for that. They distribute in those art. Like, I'm signing the empire

And I hate the stigma that Every time somebody Every time something happens to the artist's an empire They want to hit me like, I'm like, bro Because the only people that can sign the empire is niggas with their own money. Right, right. So the only artists with their own money is who?

Street artists. Street artists. You know what I mean? And these guys are from places like, like people got to understand. I'm just keeping it a buck. The reason why we're dying our own hood is because that's where the niggas don't like us at. That's what we didn't shot niggins at. They just shot us.

We didn't, they don't ran off with bags, you know what I mean? You hit a nigger girl, all type of shit. Go on in your own community. Right. So, you know, a lot of times it happens to us in that, in that space because that's where we're at. That's where everybody knows us at. So I think that's what we just got to. to clean it up. Like I said, we just got to professionalize hip hop and not just let it be a free-for-all.

Like, you can just go to guitar center and just got them by a mic in a computer. You know, now you're a rapper. Like, everybody who died right now, he's not a rapper yet. Right, right. Yeah, he, he knows how to rap. He made a song. But every rapper, like, Vlad does that all the time. This rap, I'm like, I've never even heard of him. Right. Right. Yeah, he got to, he got us, yeah, everybody got to eat too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? But you put that on rappers now that stigma is sticking. Yeah. Yeah. How do you feel the unfortunate Rico

situation with and Gunna, how do you feel like that will affect the Atlanta music scene moving forward? Hmm. I think it's kind of already affected it because it's definitely a lot. I would say it's a little quieter.

You know what I mean? When all those guys around, you know, you had to give your head on a swivel. Yeah. But I think that shit just come from communities like A lot of that shit come from like, man, us growing up and trying to get it. This shit really started before rap. Oh, yeah, for sure.

A lot of time you can't shake that shit because once you're just shot a nigga or you don't do something sufficient, you know what I mean, something that they feel like as egregious enough that they can't forgive you for. That war just going to continue.

Yeah. You know what I mean? So I think a lot of times, even if they wanted to stop it, they couldn't. You know what I'm saying? They had to like go through with it to even be a,

able to survive. So I think a lot of times with these guys, it's like they come from these areas and you want to get an authentic artist. Yeah. But these authentic artists come with these backgrounds. You know what I'm saying? You can't get no choir boy and say he's going to be authentic.

Right. You know what I'm saying? You want an authentic knee, you don't have to go get one. But what happened is the authentic nigger didn't like the rappers being able to have access to the same things as they had. You know what I mean? And so I think that's where it's hard.

And I think that's what the record label got to step in and kind of be that protection for that artist. So they don't have that conflict with their neighborhood. Because that's all it is just to come. You got to keep your dudes around or them same dudes going to come after you. And all this money that this record label put into you, these dudes gonna tear you down so bad where you ain't selling no more

because it's hood and turned on them. And he'd have told everybody else to turn on it now. He ain't who y'all thought even now y'all want to drop the artist. You know what I'm saying? So, like, if you professionalize it and make it seem like, wow, I remember rap used to be a thing. Like, you signed a deaf jam or universal. That was like, you was in the NFL. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Be like, man, fuck universal now. Right, right. You know, I got my own money, man. Right, right. Get out of here with that shit. Right. It's crazy.

You know what I mean? That's the craziest part. So once we professionalize it, and like I said, if you do five years at Universal, you get a pension for the rest of your life. I don't care if you don't sell one more record. I don't care if you don't put out another album. I know football players who are on the bitch for four, five years in the NFL. Still get a check.

Still get a check from the NFL to this day. I've been out of the lead 10 years. Yeah. 15 years. Still get a check. Yeah. So it's like now I can really release my streets. Yeah.

Because I know if all else fails, I'm still able to provide for my family versus having to go back and hustle it up and make sure, you know what I'm saying? I knew a quietest kept. I knew a dude who told me an executive if he didn't like you, he'd be like, hey, man, you need a deal? He's like, yeah, man, I'm going to give you a million dollar deal.

He'll go get you a million dollar deal by you to dope his car, watch you go get the house, watch you marry your dream girlfriend, and then drop you from the label and just watch it all during the little way. Damn. That's if he didn't like you. like he'll sign you because he don't like you

he knows what signing you will bring he knows signs he's going to be excited you're going to be your dream girl your dream house dream then you're going to owe me that million back and I'm going to drop you two years later and your shit just going to watch the lady leave you you're going to lose the car you're going to lose the family that's some evil shit man come on bro that's some evil shit it's the music industry and it happens

a lot I mean what personally what did you go through outside of what you talked about on the live with Def Jam and some of those execs from a personal level. Because I feel like even down to the verse swaps, you did take a lot of shit like, oh, we are actually not friends per se, but we got an agreement

type shit. I expect you to come through the same way I come through. Did that happen in the label with the executives over there? I don't think it's really the labels with that part, but it's something like this. Okay, you got you got the major label, then you got a furnishing company or what I say, like a minor.

You'll be your CTE or whatever, you know what I'm saying? Your personal label. And by me, I was signed to a guy who had a situation at a label. Now, the difference is, like, between going straight to the label and sign it to some white executive versus going this way. So going this way, guys will see that much money in the budget and they really had that much money that long.

So you'll see you got a million dollar budget But you know you got 300,000 for marketing You got 400,000 for record Whatever the case may be They try to start for nageling those Okay, the session was 40,000 But the session really 10 You sign up 40

Keep 30 in your pocket Yeah Pay the studio 10 You know what I'm saying Then you go back Six months later to see what your budget is like You're like, they haven't spent $200,000 in the studio

I thought I only spent a little 50. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So that's how they can finagle. You got to be careful as an artist when you sign in a third part, through a third party.

But the same thing I would tell artists like about TLC. Yeah, TLC had a bad deal, but they were famous. Mm-hmm. And one thing, a lot of, we'll say, the white execs or the big dogs, they might give you a bad deal, but you're going to be famous.

So you can take that to film. You could take that to the podcasting world. You can take that to, fashion and you can still capitalize off that celebrity. Yeah. Sometimes when you get with a dude who just try to hustle the label, you never even get to the celebrity part. You just get a dude finagling those little budgets, those little budgets that you need

to become a celebrity. Right. You get what I'm saying. So you never quite get there. And I think that's kind of what my situation was, just being young, signed to somebody that you feel like you trust. And they in there trying to work their own move in the label. You know what I'm saying?

and then they end up, you know, leaving the label, and you still sign to that label with this terrible-ass budget. You still owe the E-Fault. You know what I mean? 400,000. You ain't seen none of the 400,000.

Yeah. You're like, God, damn. Oh, y'all, you know, you're in the gridlocked with them. They don't want to put in the nice light. Right. Man, I'm going to write for Kanye, man. How many of the songs that was on the seven-track LP when everybody was putting it out?

How many of those songs were we ever here? Are you going to put some of those songs on the next? new project, always like completely scrapped those and it's all new energy. But we always had like little songs we worked on, but I definitely have a few of those records, not those particular records, but records I've done with Yeh on my album. Definitely, definitely. Like I said, Yay is a, you know, man, he's a beacon of light for all of us.

And I think a lot of times he said something the other day that was pivotal. He said, I may not be right now. and like he gave sway his flowers now yeah when you're sending on 15 billion yeah yeah yeah it's different now yeah you got you got multiple discretionary funds with that much money but when you send on 50 million you're in debt over here you got these things

you can't just go spend 20 million on fabric right you know what I mean so you had to build that up now sway is right so sway was sway was probably wrong back then yeah but now I don't think he was wrong back then I don't think he was wrong back then. I mean, you can say, name another fashion, you know, designer that made it on their own.

Not many. No, not many at all. None of them. So that he did right. He had to go, now he can go, like, how people steal from his camp. Now he went over there and stole the people from Adidas. Stole the people. Now he got that infrastructure to do it on his own and be fishing.

Yeah, I mean, him being in debt at that time, I totally understand that. But also with him doing the- Let me not say debt because you don't know where a nigga paper at. Yeah. But we ain't have 15 needs. When you're that rich,

money doesn't even really exist at that point. Yeah. Liquid money's not a thing. It was more so access. Yeah. You know, being in those different rooms, the respect in those rooms. Like a lot changed in those years

since him and Sway had that conversation. But I did love the fact that he gave Sway love. Like, he was right ultimately. Even before the Adidas deal, like, we didn't buy all those Yeezys because they were Adidas. We bought them because they were Kanye. So I really think that's what Sway was getting at even before he did that Adidas deal.

But we are going to run to buy what you make, not because Adidas made it. He could have done that shit with Skechers and we would have been like, let's buy it because it's Kanye. I see the infrastructure and probably the capital Ye needed to do that entire thing. And it's a process. But hip hop just not going to make you a billionaire. Of course not. Yeah, hip hop would have bought it. Hip hop is never made a billionaire besides.

whoever owns fucking Universal now. Yeah, but what I'm saying is for you to make $10 billion off of it, it got to go outside of hip-hop. It got to go outside of our cool kids. And you got to see regular people rocking it, girls who don't even listen to them, rocking it. It's like, that's when you know you have a real product. And I think, yeah, within the court, we always had the G on the sneakers

and the Sean Carter's and the Foo Booze and all those different brands. we've never had access to the quality of it. So when you put that shirt on, a Sean John shirt on, then you're going to put on a, you know what I mean, a Dior shirt or something. It just feels a little different.

And that's what Ye wanted. Yay wanted to be able to have the best product as well with the best infrastructure, a warehouse, is everything, and that's what he fought for. And I feel like now he has it now. So now we can get into Sway's idea.

Yeah. Now we can do that. Yeah, now we can do sway idea because a discretionary fund, I mean, he was telling me about he was like, man, I need like $400 million a discretionary fund. I'm like, what is that? He's like, man, I need to be able to fuck up. I need to be able to go get some of that. Fuck it up.

All that didn't come out right. Yeah. Go buy some more. And that's how he gets to the perfect product. But that is the most expensive part of the whole process. The mistakes to get to the right shit. Yeah, the mistakes that you got to make to be able to get the right thing. And I think once he got enough.

once they gave them that fun because they didn't give it to him at first. Once they gave it to him, he shot up the charts. He was a billionaire a year and a half later. Yeah. That's how it works.

So he knew he was talking about. He just... It took time to get the way. He got it. He got it right. Where are you, I guess, standard of your opinion on the recent Gap stuff

and the Adidas beef that he's going through now? Oh, man, you know, I kind of stay out of that. That's above my pay grade. I'm just saying just your opinion of somebody like, we can all speculate, but you actually know you have a real relationship with him

and maybe can understand things he says better than the rest of us when we look at it maybe from a surface level. Well, you know, like things. They don't understand. Because I laughed when he said he wants to abolish steps. And I was like, one thing he really trying to say is

Adidas is used to making a shoot and putting out volumes and volumes and volumes of shoes. Yeah. But you have, understand, the mystique of a Kanye, that the reason why he's outselling all of your shoes, because he's not going to put out a bunch of them. Yeah. But they're so, they're seeing that money only go to his sneaker,

and they want a part of it. Yeah. So they say, how can we rip off a few of his ideas and put it on some Team Jordan kind of vibe? But it's like nobody's going to buy the Team Jordan. No, no. So stop trying to use my idea for the Team Jones. Right.

That's not happened. You know what we're doing? And I think that's what it is. They're trying to undercut his market because he's doing so well. Yeah. But like I said, you're now you're diluting my creation by doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you diluting my creation.

Like I had a girlfriend who had a growing up. I remember my bitch was so bad because she had a fat ass naturally. She used to have a fat ass so much. She had to toss shit around the waist to just so motherfuckers wouldn't bother. Now I had so many bitches with a fat ass, she don't eat. My bitch don't even look bad anymore. Because Eric girl could just go to, you know, DR and just go get one. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. So that's the thing. She became a easy boost. Yeah. She became a easy boost. I'm looking at my miss like, God, Lee, I need to go upgrade my, you know what I'm saying? But that's what it is. You don't want a yay shoe to feel like, damn, these are easies.

They ain't even that cool no more because the Beatles went in. Yeah, yeah. Did the whole thing, i.e. the off whites and all that, everything Nike was doing over there, that was things that Ye and Virgil had been talking about. You know what I'm saying? But when Virgil left,

he kind of implemented that and like, in his own right, you're thinking like, shit, man, I'm over here with these million dollars billion of people. I might well

put my best foot forward. Some of his best foot foot, was things that him and Yee collabed on. Yeah. But I got to get my money now. I'm in that position. I'm going to take that risk

of, I might ruffle his feathers a little bit, but that's how all of them feel. I'm like, Ruffel Yeh feathers a little bit, but I'm going to get these ems. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Virgil should have.

And today, happy birthday and rest of him. Oh, yeah, yeah. Rest and Peezee. Birthday was yesterday, right? I think it's today. Today. And Virgil was a precious soul, bro. What's one of your favorite Virgil memories?

My favorite Virgil memory? Ah, man, I would have to say, dang, I have so many. I was there when Virgil, him and Yee, well, actually, Ye drew it, And Virgil came and drew a better version of it of the last Nike Yeezy, the one with the reptile back on the back. Yeah. Yeah, that was, I was there when they were actually drawing that together.

That's crazy. I would say when he finally got the Louis Vuitton deal, and I think him and Yee got back on good terms, right before he passed, about a year before he passed. Yeah, it was fashion show in Paris, fashion week in Paris, I think. Louis show? No, not that one. This is, I think this was before that. Right after that. But I went up there, he picked us up in this May bag.

I was like, I was kind of excited. I was like, damn, Virgil was like a boss now. He got like security, trailing. You know, because usually when I first met, he was like a just an intern, like a little creative director guy. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Now he like, then he'd go to his office.

He got all the Louis Vuitton fabrics. Like he's making fur coat Louis Vuitton. He's making like, you got all the Louis Favron, you can make anything you want. I mean, he's making cape, skateboards. He just got to do, it was like a playground of materials. So I just seen him in there and we was playing them some music that we was working on. But just to see him and Ye had those last moments together of, you know, just rejoicing.

And Ye was really proud of him. You know, Ye just be like, man, y'all using my best friends against me. It's like, you know what I mean? I should kind of get, you know, kind of, you know, eat out of a mother. a little bit, but outside of that, I think that was my favorite moment, just that last moment I was with him at the Louis office. And he was just showing us all the different things that he looked into me and never got to fully, you know, do everything he would like to do.

It's just, it's dope to see, you know, Virgil, Don C, you know, what Kanye is doing. And, you know, all of these guys was really, like, close and together. They came in together and had all of these, which I'm assuming conversations and dreams to do what they're doing now. It's just amazing to see what came of that. And that speaks to, again, Kanye's genius of him just instilling power into his friends and letting them be their own people. And just giving people the space to create.

And I think that's, you know, you say whatever we want about Kanye, he goes off on these tanges, these rants, whatever. But one thing about him, just look at it, he definitely creates opportunity for his friends that he knows our geniuses before the world does. That's something I always love. about Kanye is that he sees the genius in his friends and in his circle. That's his biggest thing. Like, a lot of people, a lot of people don't do that.

They won't empower you, but that's something there to. He'll empower you. And then that's the thing that hurts him. He like, people take his best. But that's business, though. Like, you know, so he got to just, you know, figure out how to move around it. But I figure out a lot of times a lot of those people end up coming back around anyway. So it just be a, a.

a period in time. Is Sahai happy today? Sahas extremely happy. I can't complain. I think a lot of people don't understand. Like, my rant was not just because of me. It's my fans that miss what I do. You don't understand, like, having grown me and crying

coming up to you from mixtape songs. Right. It's like, bro, I put that out 10 years. He's still like it's connected because something happened in that moment and time of his life that touched him so much in this album where this song kind of helped him get through that. And I think a lot of times I kind of feel for them, but I feel for myself at the same time. So I'm definitely blessed, you know what I'm saying? I'm not in a place where, you know what I'm saying?

I don't feel like I'm blessed, but I do feel like there's more to accomplish. because like I said I've grown up around successful people my whole life rich niggas my whole life and yeah I'm so high I wrote these big records

but it's like when you've been around success your whole life those small victories ain't really tickling my fancy like that right you know what I'm saying when you've seen yourself

being something so much bigger like you know I appreciate what I have but that's like low-hand hanging fruit for me. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? I'm the, like, I tell everybody, if everybody, you put your favorite rapper in a room, no marketing plan, no fucking record label, no beat,

and it's just the purest essence of what we do, I'm top five dead or alive. But when you got to add all the street credit and marketing budgets and all that, okay, I might get overlooked. Yeah.

So, you know, that's the only thing. But outside of that, I'm blessed, man. I can't complain too much. I just got to keep moving forward. What's a strange hobby that you have that fans would not know outside of rap and fashion? I eat foe every week for the past 10 years.

Is it fur or foe? Because I call it foe. It's fun. I'm a professional. Oh, my bad. My apology. My apology. It's far.

I'm a faux fan. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, once a week for the last 10 years? Yeah. I mean, I'm slick being the Mese. You know what I mean? That's just something I just, I just love doing. It's therapeutic.

What's a good spot in Atlanta? Faw King is the best spots in Midtown. In Midtown? Fong King. Yeah, I got to take spots in New York then. Yeah, I heard New York got some good Boston do too. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Favorite session of your career and worst session? of your career? My favorite session of my career would be when Kobe walked in. Electric Lady Rosewood era during my beautiful dark. I seen Kobe and was like, man,

that's Kobe, bro. He didn't, doesn't Kobe have writing credits on power? He probably do. He was there during that time. Yeah, I feel like I saw a picture and maybe Yeh, maybe he told us that in the building. I don't know if he said that publicly. But, yeah, is the first person.

It was Kobe most deaf and yay, right? Yeah, Kobe, let me tell you something. Yeah, give you credit if you bring the coffee in the room during the hit record. Like, if you made a hit record and you brought him two classes of coffee, you're getting publishing. He was the first person to do that. Like, now you see all these producers like collabing on beats.

You know how all this is like, man, one nigga need to make the beat. Why? Three months on the beat. It's like, yay started that collaboratory thing where a lot of the early songs, I was working on, I was just in there. I was like, no, I think you should say it like this or he's like, what you're thinking about that?

I was like, well, I would say it like this. And then I didn't know that was writing. Right. So I never took no, I never asked for no publishing or nothing. I'm just thinking this is what the thing is doing the studio. Yeah. But then at that level, that's called writing. Yeah, 100%.

You know what I mean? And then, like I said, he goes further than that. You ain't write nothing. If you was in the room and he thought of something just by looking at your shoes, a my thing's on my leather black

jeans on you got okay what's your information sent it to my assistant that's crazy you'd be like because he respects everything in the room

the lighting yeah he got OCD he don't want this camera right there you gotta move this camera right there is just like

yeah he just respects that so I think that's something that I learned as well just respecting everything around me

because you got I mean music is for the consumer at the end of the day yeah so you've got to ask random people Like I heard stories of EA when the delivery guy would deliver food

You'd be like, no, come in here, you need to hear this. Right, right, exactly. You get what I'm saying? Exactly. What was that Kobe session like? And what was, you know, I never had the privilege to ever meet Kobe Bryant? I mean, I only seen him walk in. I was new around, so I didn't want to go in there and be like fanned out.

But I was new around that time. But it was dope. And my other favorite session, it was with Jay, man. I was in Jay and Paris. But Jay, like a real one, though. you're like he's just a real one. I know you kind of like close to them, but he's blood-blood related.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, you blood-related? Biggs? Oh, yeah, big. That's what I'm saying. Biggs, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Jay is the, Jay is. Was it Watch the Throne sessions? What was it for? A couple of them, man. He just was a, he just a great guy. I don't know. He just got away with, you know, making you feel comfortable in so many words.

Yeah. I remember, um, I'm on 10. that story, but I will tell this story. I will tell this story. I mean, I was in Atlanta, right? I just came around. And Holes was like, they told me to come to the show.

So I walk in and shit. I come sit down next to him, you know, he kicking it. He looked like, Beyonce walks in, and she's pregnant at the time. He's like, Saian, bring your girl with you?

You know what I'm like, at this point, I didn't want to bring nobody. I didn't know I could invite a plus one. You know what I'm just coming by myself. Yeah. He's like, you ain't bring your girls with you? We didn't. Ah!

Like, he just started laughing him and yet because they had the two baddest chicks in the world with them. In the room. And I'm like, yeah, my girl is at home. But the way they laughed about it, like. She used to have a fat ass. Now everyone has a fat ass. I didn't know how I could bring her.

Right, right, right. I ain't think she had enough ass anymore. When you're going to get on the Alchemist beat? Man, good question. Man, you're going to put that together for me, brother? I could just hit him. Legitably make a group chat right now. Man, that man, tweeted that man, email, MySpace.

Lime-Wired. I'm trying to get Alchemist, bro. I just been like, I say something on my album about that, too. Yeah. Don't I say that? Yeah, I mean, I'm not. I'm not. I need to hear that.

Yeah, because if I'm on an Alchemist piece, it's a rap. Yeah. It's a rap then. Yeah, we need that. I know paperwork-wise, you weren't on good music. No. It's two chains. But what's your thing?

top five good music album list you could put No Dope on Sunday's number one if you want I understand what good music album list well I will say my beautiful dark

Pablo no dope definitely both put your albums old and new that would be my top five of those and you know I did like finally famous the mixtape like yeah

I'm trying to figure out this Sean and Saha relationship no man me and Sean good it's just Sean just a super competitive rapper yeah and good dude though good dude but you know he will step on you for his for his well-being yeah and that's one thing that

Step pop though, right? Nah, I ain't that type of nigga. Competitive, no? I ain't gonna step on you, though. That's probably why I ain't where I'm supposed to be, though. They ain't gonna step on nobody. There's a lot of artists that just didn't do some bullshit, and that's why they're not this.

And I'm not saying, Sean did that way. Okay, step on me. I mean, I'm gonna say, but, okay, like. What did Sean do specifically? So, okay, when I first came around, it was at the double Excel shoot, Ye asked me to rap because I've been freestyling for everybody and they're going crazy.

So he's like, I got this new nigga. So he's like, man, rap for double Xel. So I got this on the live. Yeah, so I get the I'm just going that and they filming me and I didn't know who I ain't no big shot at the time

he's sitting on the table Yeah bro, jump off the table and just cut my rap off and start going in He didn't like that Well let me ask you Brun niggas don't like that

He's got to perform Isn't that what he's supposed to do? Nah, bro If he saw his opportunity No, I know if I tell you Let me tell you, let me tell you I'm gonna let you finish your rap Yeah

I ain't gonna even rap because I know once I come out and even if I did want to jump out I'm going to let you get your rap off or whatever the case may be but you don't know you're already in position you got videos

or kid cuddly you're like okay I thought Sean was just unknown at this time he saw an opportunity to rap but I'm just saying I felt that was a competitive thing he did but it's like we brothers now

you don't have to keep trying to you know what I'll shine me to make yourself look good Yeah, but you also got to think, like, what Sean might have been going through at that label, too, as far as, because I mean, shit, I was around with y'all was there. Def Jam wasn't taking him serious. Nah, he was, nah, he was good. He was really, he was selling out shows. He's good.

I don't know. He was from Detroit. He was listening to lose yourself. I don't know. One shot, one opportunity. That was his favorite artist, and he's seen his favorite artist taking a liking to another artist. Yeah. And he ain't like that.

I'm just not like that. When Trav came in the room, I embraced Trav. But let me tell you y'all. I'm going to keep you out. This is a story exclusive. I was at the Mercer and it's around a time where Ye was still finding his label and he asked me,

who should I sign two chains of French Montana? And I told him two chains. And when I walked in the other room, my man, they were like, man, that's the stupidest shit you could have ever said to the nigga. Why would you make him sign another nigga from Atlanta? I just never,

looked at it like that. I just thought two chain with five. And it was my boy. So it's like, I ain't tripping on that. I mean, I'm sorry. I'm gonna do my thing, you know what I'm saying? I'm not going, I wasn't thinking that it would affect what I had going on. You know what I'm saying?

But I mean, strategically, yeah, you probably would have said French Montana and you would have been the, but I just never had a, I just never been a hater. So it just never crossed my mind. I just gave the best decision. And it's fucked up because a lot of times that's how shit happened. Like, motherfuckers think like that. Yeah, that's how I should have been, I was young. Now I might have been like, you know what?

You might want to go with Fred. No, too chained my God. But I wouldn't change it. Speaking of that, that era when Chains was affiliated with good music and it was the Good Music Fridays and that entire shit, which really felt like Ye was bringing the attention. I felt like he was trying to go on the Rockefeller route of you are now solidified as the biggest artists let me put on every

artist I've worked with. Had Cruel Summer not been rushed, do you think the label good music would be in a different place than they are now? Because all the attention Kanye just dropped a classic album. Good Friday's was the hottest shit moving

on the internet. And then Cruel Summer came and I like Cruel Summer. No get me twisted. Like, I like it as an album. It felt super rushed. And I felt like the only people that suffered from it, was not named Kanye West. Like that was the time for the label

and it didn't affect Ye's career but I felt like it really could have helped that brand of good music because the good music Fridays and coming off My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. It was it was just a time for good music. I think what happened in that era, bro,

was Ye was getting powerful and people, that's when people started picking at them. They started trying to get Sean to do his own thing. They started trying to get people to kind of turn on him because he was throwing his weight around. Yeah. Usually you probably seen him do it on TV every now and then,

or at a war show, but that social media was coming into play, and he can kind of say what he wanted to say every fucking day. It was just like, we got to figure out how to weaken that thing. So that's all that was. It was never, you know, I don't feel like it hurt anybody because if you look at it, there's not a lot of labels out that have multiple artists. That's not something that's popular anymore because artists don't need a label no more.

Yeah. They can just go to TikTok or Instagram or something and drop their shit and just get a deal through United Masters, whoever, you know what I mean? So I think that's what kind of did that. And, you know, yay moving into fashion and stuff. And, you know, that's kind of his priority now. Music is like his commercials for his products.

Absolutely. Do you think the music has suffered? I just think he in a different place, man. A lot of times when you try something new, I just seen a new sport the other day. It's called pickleball or something, right? Yeah. That shit looks crazy because we just haven't seen.

We used to tennis or something. But it just looks different because we're not accustomed to looking at it. So I think, yay, rapping about Jesus, you're just not accustomed to hearing 15 Jesus walks. You used to just hear one, then you can hear, you know, your other things that you can, you know, relate to. But I think even with Yeezus, Jesus, he always tells me, people say they don't like Yeas, but they like Trave and the weekend. Right. That's Jesus.

I just did the authentic version of it. They did the, oh, let me blend the coolness with, so I won't look out of place when I play this song kind of vibe. Right. So I think even with, what was Drake last project? Honestly, never mind. The dance thing, the dance, that's his eases. How do you feel about the album? I liked it.

Yeah. Because I mean, I'm not a, I hate Vegas. I don't like being a doot-o-un-ta-un-ta. I hate that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I got to get out of here, man. But I think, you know, if you're allowed to go to those places, you don't, like, bro, it would be some, I went to R&B night at Red Martinez in the Atlanta another night. They hear R&B all night. That was the best time I had in the club, bro, in probably about 10 years, bro.

Yeah, yeah. Because everybody's singing. You ain't no ass looking for, you see who, you know, everybody just, the girls is enjoying their self. Yeah. And, like, you know, that was the first time I had, like, dance with a girl in the club.

Like, you don't even do that anymore. You got to go to strip club. Other than that, the girls dancing their section with their people. Yeah. Yeah. You kind of hold your. bottles and we leave.

This was the first time we was in there, oh, remember that song? Sometimes you just need a different environment. And once you get to that environment, like Drake said, once you get on a yacht or be able to go to cans or Turks, you're going to be like, man, I need that Drake album right now. This shit's out of fire, you know what I mean? It's all about where you receive that type of music.

I can't be in the middle of the trenches playing that honestly, never mind. It's not going to connect. Yeah, with food savers and scissors. Yeah, no. Michelle. I'm just pictures. Somebody in the quote, quote trenches throwing on,

honestly, never mind. It just don't connect. It don't add up. I'm going to name some artists and I just want you to, in maybe two or three words. Diss them.

Oh, no. Rick Ross. Legend. Legend, he put me on. You know what? Super dope story. The first self, Mayback album,

he called me and wanted me to get on a his so I appreciate that. Belly. Belly? Yeah. Oh, that's my God. Belly is a super player. Yeah.

Nick Grant. Nick Grant. Oh, man. Special too, bro. Oh. I remember to say vintage. I would like to say vintage. Like a young Nas.

Yeah. Yeah. Simba. Simba? Man, my brother. from another mother. Mm. Jit.

Jit. Um, hometown hero. We're from the same city. 21 Savage. 21? Oh, man. You know what so crazy?

I love you. I would say 21. Me and 21 grew up, like, right of the street from each other. So I would say 21, authentic. Authentine. Authent. He's authentic Eastside, Glenwood Road.

You go, boy, you make that left. phone motherfucker and Glynwood off Covington how your shit on a swivel because 21 and them niggas all up that street. You might not get the Maccafee. I'll be in Buckhead at the hotel. In one piece.

Yeah. Yo, 21, I don't want to say I was, I'm late to 21, but I'm just really starting to appreciate actually how his pen is like 21 could rap for real. He's from the east side, bro. He really wraps. The east side of Atlanta, we got a little intellect.

Even though he's still a street nigger, but you still get a little bit of education, you still get a little bit of sauce. You know what I mean? Would Amaretta say you're from Atlanta or not? Huh? Would Amaretta the... Oh, yeah, I'm from Atlanta.

I'm from Georgia Baptist, baby. I was going on Edgewood. Yeah. I'm straight. I get you my elementary school, daycare. I went to Toll water. Yeah, she know what Tollwater have? Across Street from Joan Boy, South.

John Vaugh North. Um, Conway the machine. Oh, a machine. He definitely a machine. Benny the butcher. Benny, oh, man. Benny is like, this is my, this is my OG used to call me, I would give Benny that. They used to call me a publicist for gangsters.

So I would get that to Benny. He a publicist for gangsters. I like that. Jada kiss. Jada kiss, the voice. He's the, he's the original. bar god let's say the original bar god jada drake drake michael jackson of our time i agree i would say i always tell people

drake is michael jackson conyers james brown okay if you look people don't sample mike like that but they sampled a hell out of james brown yeah yeah to this day oh yeah every sneer Every kick drum, every, hey, every James. They will kill me for saying this. What? I would say Drake, Mike, Kanye Prince. I think Kanye is definitely a Prince type

as far as what he really contributes to his music. But that's a fucking genius. He does everything. I would say Kendrick is more Prince than Ye. I'm saying Prince as far as... You think they're in the same time. The amount of shit that Prince did actually differ his records, the way Ye...

down from writing to keys to drums to engineering to like to how it's presented uh prince was first on streaming like how he pushed music forward i think yay is in that prince i would say that too that's that you're right you're right he's similar to him so yeah um j electronica oh man mentor okay mentor you got a lot of knowledge funny nigga too oh yeah funny nigga too. We almost we almost died in Mexico with Jayette. Oh, you'll both take a bag to J. L.L. I will put you guys in a group chat

if we don't get arrested on the way there. We almost died with J. Electronica in Mexico City. Great time. That sounds about right. That sounds about right. Great time. Sounds about right. Last but not least, Jay Z.

Jay Z, my favorite rapper all time, my goat, my uncle, my second father, Jay was everything to me. Let me tell you something. I can wrap reasonable doubt from track one to the end. Mm-hmm.

No fumbles. Mm-hmm. No fumbles. Would you ever, because I know you got one of my favorite L.A. leaky of freestyles ever. Yeah. Would you ever get into like a back and forth with Jay on the track? Like if it was like, like, like, like sparring. Oh, no, no, Jay.

Because when we look at some of ones that we love, we're like, I'm not even getting into that with him. But would you take that challenge? Oh, yeah, I'll take the challenge for anybody. But with Jay, it's the most respectful way. I just, that's just my guy. Yeah. I don't know.

I remember, there's so many stories, you know, I'm indie-aid out, but, you know what I'm saying? I can't tell you too much, but, you know, bro, he's solid. Because he's the reason I'm signed to or I got in that situation like that he kind of put the stamp on it for me and I never forget it I remember when I got my chain

he was there, he told Ye to sign me it's funny he got the cannabis company now because we blew a couple of your motherfucking pairs together it was like, yo this old I just rolled one for my boy you know what I mean so it's like you know he's a goat bro and I know it's just becoming the random

question quick hit shit is there is there a beat that you passed on that you later heard that ended up being like a big record yeah like I heard Memphis Bleak was on a podcast saying that he passed on the Uchi Wally I will tell you this I will tell you this

and this is this a caveat shout out to two chains I got a beat CD from a producer and like man I was like that this beat so hard I'm about sending this to two chains I said in the Tuchay

Like man who sent you this beat Bro this is my beat I'm like dad I just got this from the producer And he got mad at the producer And me and the producer The producer got mad at me I'm like bro you gave me the beat

But it would end up being him and Drake Okay I forgot I think that the name for real I think that was the one Fuck I know what you're talking about Back in his first thing So

And like I said Tuchin's just been a good guy since then But I mean that was a beater I had. I dropped that bar. I used to all fight like eggnog. I think I downloaded all his shit after that.

I said, no, if he's talking like this, I got to hear everything this nigga. He'll Virgo, bro. Hey, Virgo's, bro. We put that shit together like that. Yeah, nah. I fuck with Chains. I fuck with Chains.

Speaking of Hove and Two Chains, will we ever, do you think we'll ever get a two chains in Jay record? Because I feel like that's the last rapper that's like old. Yeah. That Jay verse. Yeah, he, yeah, Jay. two chains do

he do need that verse because he he he he he admires I can just hear it in his music we all admire Jay brad Jay he need one though yeah he need one all right so before we wrap up the album November hopefully

I don't want to hold you to it no November yeah definitely don't hold me to it November story he got coming soon a couple months man I appreciate everybody holding tight for me It's going to be star-studied. It's going to be no dope on Sundays on steroids. Don't say that.

See, sigh, I don't say that. You just said you like my L.A. leaker freestyle, bro. That's legendary. That's why I'm on up there just, you know what I'm saying? On steroids? That's saying, you saying something. Let me listen. On steroids, bro.

I do this, bro. Okay. All right. I'm waiting. This sauce don't go nowhere. The expectations ain't the raps because we know you could rap. No dope on Sundays is one. of the few lyrical albums that has some of the best production I've ever.

Yeah. If you say no dope on Sundays on steroids, because I got those same dudes. I got those same dudes, but with more equipment, more knowledge, more understanding. We did that.

No dope on Sunday, I'm going to tell you something. We was, that was trial and error. We didn't know what we were doing. We was like, man, we think this is how I go, you know what I mean?

You think this is how you do a beat. Right. You know what I mean? But now we really know how to do it. How did the jagged edge shit? happened. Man, let me tell you something, bruh. Niggas don't know, bro.

I went to, I went to jail for Jackadette. I had like 30 bags. I got to travel like 30 bags, Fotex, two, like all type of shit back in the day. Jagadiz was like one of the first, you know, they're from the east side of Atlanta. Yeah, no. And I'm from the east side, so they used to let us use their studio. And shit, you know, young, you just start trapping it out. Yeah.

And being young. being young and boy kicked the dope. So I've been knowing this since I was, shit, 16, 15, young nigga. That was more than a verse swap is what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, bro. Yeah, man, my partners used to call me laying because I used to roll weed for them niggas. They'd be like, man, rolling weed for those niggas.

I was like, I'm trying to get in the studio, bro. Yeah, see, that type of shit. Yeah, I'm rolling everybody. I'm already, and they buying it from it. It's just like, hey, fuck it. Yeah. But I knew that was my way. I started going on the road with them.

That's how I met. You know what I mean? A lot of people in the music industry just through them. That was my first, you know what I'm saying? Introduction to it. So, yeah, I used to see, I used to see Destiny Child over there, everything.

She used to be lit. Well, we want to thank you for taking some time out to kick it with us, man. We've been trying to think that was his way of saying he sold to Kelly Rowland. No, no, no, not that. No, not that. I'm joking.

But we appreciate your time, man. And listen, man, We big fans, big supporters. I'm just happy to know that the music is coming. And we appreciate you holding rap to a certain echelon, man, because you wanted a few that really, really rap at a certain level, create at a certain level, right at a certain level. So I appreciate that.

A lot of us out here that still do appreciate that. And a lyrical rapper that can make a song, that's different. Yes. That's really why I fuck with you. Because it's mad rappers out there. Yes. But they can't make a record. They don't know good production.

Yeah. They don't know song structure. could... Yes, yes. Rap till you're blue in the face. It's cool. I appreciate it, but it's not gonna stick the way...

It ain't got nothing in it. Yeah, I always tell people, I don't like when people call me a lyricist. Like, even though I understand it, but it's just, I'm just articulating my life and I just know how to put it together well. But this ain't no shit.

This ain't no extra galactical, pack, practical. Yeah, yeah. This ain't that. Don't put me in that category. Yeah. No, no, I feel you. Yeah.

Like, it's because it's... I ain't rap the lie yet. Mm. I won't a lot, last caveat, I used to grow up around this super street dude, bro. I mean, one day, was in the studio all my buddies, and we like, man, we got this, got that. Then they hit the space bar, boom.

Everybody pull your drugs out. You know what I mean? So, you know, they had their little weed. I don't want to hit none. I'm not talking about no coat, no dope. All I see is weed. Everybody pull your pistol out. Like, he just started trying to pull it.

Like, where you're ho at? And we ain't got, all right, well, stop talking about you got problems. Like, all right, bro. And ever since that day, I had to figure out how to rap my true life. So I tell everybody, a lot of people can use this much of the dictionary. I can only use this much when I write. I can only use this much of because I just have to be true to who I am and true to what I'm saying. So most artists, that's how you develop that core fan base.

You know what I mean? Cut back on what you're talking about, cut the fat off of the music, and actually get to the point, the soul, and the subject of the record. And get the lies off when you write for other people. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Even when I'm with, right, right. I have to, I was just with an artist last week. And I didn't know his story. So I had to sit there and kind of interview. And he was looking at me kind of crazy. I'm like, yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't know how to write you. Yeah, I looked you up.

There's not a lot of interviews. So I need to kind of feel your vibe. So, yeah. Benny had told us yesterday in that same chair, speaking of ghost writing, that he wrote a verse for Pinky, the porn star, in 2002, did he say? 2003.

Yeah, somewhere around there. What was his swap? See, that's a great question. We ain't even asked that. All right. Hey, bruce. No, but what? Don't even worry about it, Pinky.

What was the first swap? What was his swap? Yeah, I want the swap. What was the swap? Like, Dan, we didn't ask you to swap. What was the verse swap? What was the fucking verse swap?

Yeah, don't pay me for that. Yeah, but what made me think of that house, Pinky? This on the house, Ma, don't need to worry about it. I need to swap with that. Because when he said he was right for somebody, he went to look at interviews and shit, that's what I was trying to get at Benny. I was like, all right, so before you got to the session, like how you researched the artist. Yeah, you studied the work. You studied the work.

Yeah, you got to study your work. You gotta study your word. I have to compliment you when, uh, sicko mode came out and let's not keep this because I fuck with Travis. We was in the car and he was like, man, Travis ain't right this bullshit. Like, there's no way Travis wrote this shit. Like, this is too good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like, Sahai wrote this shit. I know it. And I was like, Ma'am, Sahai did not write this. This was, Travis wrote this, bro. Like, come on. He's like, there's no way Travis came up with this type of shit.

You could just hear it. Like, I listen. So it's like, when I hear certain shit, I'm like, I get it, Trave, but that ain't you. You did not. You can't hear it. It's like, Travis, you don't sound sweet. And I admit when I'm,

when I'm wrong because I looked at Mall Crass like, bro, Travis wrote this. What are you talking about? But let me tell you what they all do. They all tell me what they want to say. Okay. So I don't all the way take credit. That's why I don't like to say, I'm not like I'll tell people all the time. It's not like I'll tee y'allow.

Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, man, I got this cadence like, uh, in, nina, nah, uh, boo. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. And I'd be like, okay, well, what you want to talk about? I mean, I want to talk about how I'm just starting on the end home. Woo. And I just be like, oh, okay. Yeah. All of my exes, I put them all in the group. This was, you know, Arianna and then he was with Kylie.

So it was just, you know, we just collab. That was the specific line that that mall said to me. He was like, Travis didn't. That bar is too dope. Travis didn't. It's not the wrong with it. I could just hear it. I know I'm like, okay.

I know who that is. If he talked to me, if I'm with him, he talks, he always talking to me like, man, about all the girls he didn't have. and shoot you. That's kind of like what he would like to say. Yeah, yeah. He just don't. He just need a slick way of saying it.

Express me like that. I'm like, I'm like, you know what I mean? So that's all of this. Trab my God, though. Don't get it twisted, man. And I hate that. And that's the thing I would like to say this before I leave. Definitely.

The reason why dream is so successful as a writer because he can say he wrote it. Yeah. But as a ghost writer, it's hard for me to work with other artists because I can't say I wrote it. You get what I'm saying? So it's like, it has to be like you gotta hear through the great mind of the, in the music industry, they're kind of like, oh, so how I'm doing that?

Okay, well, call him over here and see if he could work with this guy, you know what I mean? But it can never be like, yo, y'all, I wrote this, like I'm nominated for this grand. Like, I don't ever post like my Grammys or like songs I'm nominated for or when they come out. I don't never post it on my page or nothing because I don't want them to feel uncomfortable. I don't want the fans to take away from them. Like they didn't have nothing to do with what the album was. Those guys. I feel like the artist should do that.

Yeah. I thought the artist's ego. Like that. I did this all by myself. Like Coffee Bean. Yeah, they ain't going to do that. Stop, stop, Mom. I love it.

Okay. I love Travis. I love it, but it's like, I got to give you. I got to give you your, you know what I'm all right. I got to give you yours. You know what I'm saying? I love that record. But I can hear it.

You know what I'm saying? I love Travis, but I'm like I got to give you your respect to you. Right, right. Coffee Bean was the one time I was like, that's probably Tia a little by well. That felt like you wrote a whole verse and gave to him. But even that, man, he was telling me what he was going through with Kylie. And he was just like, I need this to really, you know what I mean, whoop-de-whoop, this is what I'm going through, this, we've been talking about.

Yeah. This is what I'm in? I'm like, okay, cool. You think streaming has started to eliminate some of the ghost writing, per se? Because a lot of times we're streaming now, you have to cross the T's dot the I? the contract's got to be right. The published has to be right before it goes on DSPs.

There's credits now on the shit. It's not the wild wild west where it used to be. It's always been like that. It's always been, but I just think, you know, the average fan ain't just reading credits. It's like... No, I'm just saying you've got to be more accountable now because it's so easily

I could open my phone and click a credit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where if I'm... That ghost writing shit back in the day, it didn't matter. Pressing up CDs. Nobody was really... But that's what I'm trying.

To me, it was songs, I'm going to keep it above. It's songs that I shouldn't have got publishing on that I did. Just because I kept the room vibing. Right. That I mean, I didn't necessarily do the song. But I'm like, oh, man, that's hard, bro. Because it was hard.

Right, right, right. So like that. And the nigger just, you know, like it's almost like hustling, bro. You might ride with a nigga to go make a play. You really ain't had nothing to do. You waited outside, come in the house. The nigga throw you a couple stacks. Like, oh, shit. I mean, I've been a part of them. I don't have crumbs off the table. Right.

You know what I'm saying? It's just people looking up. You still gotta pay security when nothing happens. I do that too. I do that for like my guy. Yeah. He ain't wrote no songs, but he on publishing.

Right. He's getting a piece of his records. He's in there at three in the morning with four in the morning with me. When I'm like, everybody's tired, I'm like, bro, what you think? He's like, man, that's your heart. All right, cool.

Yeah. So that's how you take care. That's how we all take care of each other in the music industry because the labels ain't going to do it. They're not going to do it. So I guess the publishing side is really for the artists to kind of eat

and people who actually work in, the writers, the producers, the really. That's why we need an artist union, bro. We need a producer. 100%. The artist union. We got to start that ASAP. Ain't no way. Man, these people who drive the trains, man, they went on strike for two days, man.

Had everything they asked for and two days, them're full back on the track. Yep. You know what I mean? So we need our health care, bro. We need our pensions. We need dinner. We need everything. We need lawyers.

We need security. Imagine if every artist, was in a union and said, we're not putting out music for a month. Just a month. Spotify is changing that point zero, zero, zero one penny you get off a stream. Yeah.

Overnight. Yeah. You won't fucking believe it. Last last question. Just spark my thought because you said that. We're writers. The 360 deal, the label had to shift because they weren't making money

based off actual album sales, so they had to grab some of the tour money. Should producers, and writers put artists in a 360 as far as their tour money to. We all should be in a 360. Yeah, labels.

We want a 360. Because there's no real money in the actual streams and that's what producers that artists have to do. They make their money off shows. You got some show artists and then you got some streaming artists.

But when you combine both sides, it makes it good for the artists. The only thing about the 360 is it need to come with a pension. Okay. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying, it need to come with something. It need to come with, like, if I put my money in a investment account and it, you know,

makes money, makes money, makes money, at some point, it's just to start paying out little by little, you know what I'm saying? But I think that's what we need. Yeah, we need to give them more and they need to offer us more, you know what I mean, or more services. So that's the biggest thing. It's like most, like I said, most labels enforce a lot of street rappers and artists to get their money on their own.

So we kind of holding our nuts on them. Right. Because if you fuck this up, you ain't got nothing to secure our future as a record label. You know what I mean? So it's like, like I said, if you sign me, you got to, like when we, as a, if I'm the land of Falcons and I sign Julio, I want to meet his parents. Right. I want to know where he's live.

Okay, we're going to get in my house. We already got a relative form. You live in these neighborhood because this is where all the other Falcon players live at. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You ain't fin to be over here with your homeboy. You got to be at the facility.

They can't come to the studio. Right. I.E. Julio Pontus can't come to the facility when he had practice. Right. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You're going to be your trainer, you whatever.

So once we get those dynamics and things hashed out as in a union, us having a union, you know what I'm saying? As writers and producers and artists, we can have those stipulations. They can greet to them and it's going to help us in the long run. You know what I mean? It's going to let street niggas remain street niggas. Right. Okay, don't come into the music industry unless you want to be a rapper.

I ain't no more that I ain't no rap I'm a street nigga. Right. Well, you're in the wrong industry. Right. Right. You know what I mean? That's their favorite line now.

Oh, yeah. I'm a rapper. I couldn't stand being a street, nigga. That was the worst job you could ever fucking have. That was Hope's fault, I think. Yeah, I don't know why niggas. Just so happens I know how to rap. That shit is not cool, bro.

No, not. Because when them shit start going on, everybody doing it. Yeah. If it was cool, you would be like, come on with you. Okay. I don't even want to be in the building.

Whoever that happens, I don't want to be there. Yeah, we all running out the house when the red dogs come. We all calling home on collect. Everybody ain't answering the phone, you're bitch for ya. We all going through it. So quit the cap. And I think that's what drill need to do. If we don't give that, we need to know why you drilling.

Make me a song. Tell me about the night you cry for 45 minutes and your mama on because your brother just got gunned down. I don't want to hear what you did. retaliate yet. Just tell me that story. Right. You know what I'm saying? And that's how you start getting them to open up and give different concepts of how they

rapping and what they're giving it to the world. So that's all we need, man. Diversity and insight and vulnerability. I feel that. I definitely feel that. Listen, man, this has been a really, really great conversation and you know, I think it was necessary. So we want to thank you. Long overdue, man. And I want to listen.

I want to listen to the album. Yeah. And I'm proud of y'all too, man. by the way, I'm proud of y'all, bro. Thank you, man. Because I know it's, you know, I deal with a nigga like yay, you know what I'm saying? That's my guy. But I know people be headstrong,

and y'all the same way. Y'all was dealing with old boy, he's super headstrong, but you keep pushing forward, you know what I'm saying? You make your own path, you do your own thing. And homes.

He all, at home, you know what it is with me and you, bro. You know, any day you feel like you can rap better than me, you know what I mean? That you've been telling everybody. I put my off on the table. You're rich enough to accept it,

but you ain't accepted it. Yeah, he stole enough. Yeah, because you know, yeah, you know what time did it. He stole enough, he got it. He can pay you with my money. Yeah, yeah. It's our money. Exactly, so much more.

That's a lot, man. Another episode here at Culture Lab. Thank you to Rockstar. Thank you to Tess. Thank you to Al Branch. Yeah, for sure. That's fam. And we'll talk to y'all soon.

Blueprint. A. Peace. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up.

There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they failed. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green. Co-hosted the podcast, The Away End, with my old friend Daniel.

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