New Rory & MAL - Episode 125 | The Guys Get Emotional with Azad of Emotional Oranges

Episode Date: December 9, 2022

Happy Friday everyone. Today we’re joined by Azad of Emotional Oranges and things immediately got emotional. Somehow the P*ssy Posse and conspiracies find their way into the conversation. Azad shares how he’s been occupying himself with the new single life. While we’re on juices, ‘The Juice Vol. III’ (OUT NOW) is the end of an era and like most endings things can become difficult. Azad shares how his lyrics lend to his previous relationship. Then the guys discuss the business of the music industry and what type of artists make sense on a major label. Azad champions other artists that have mastered their blueprint. Speaking of blueprint, the guys discuss their favorite Jay Z albums which turns into a producer vs. beatmaker conversation. Listen in as the guys and Azad discuss all of this + more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And you see it and the people are, you know, giving you so much love and support. And then your family is kind of like, okay, everything that he was chasing and he said he wanted to do, he's doing it. It's happening. we're here, we're supporting, and it's, you know, families crying, everybody's just happy to see

that you finally are doing what you set out to do. I mean, I'd be mad at my family. That is a Rory thing. What fucking ten years of like, ah, what is he doing over there? I fucking told you, Mom. Now they love it.

Now they rave about you at work, right? Hi, welcome to a new episode of the new Rory Mall podcast. I am all. I'm Edin. And we are back for a new pod. Going nuts. With a really good friend of ours.

It's fucking late. Very talented, very articulate gentleman. Articulate. Don't say his full name, though, because he's still, you know, trying to hide his identity. No, Azad. He's A. Hey. Hi, guys.

Just believe that. A boogie with the hoodies. We are with our friend, our guy, talented, super cool, suave. Swab. Gentleman, Azad. Anyone that wears a bubble coat on the couch of a friend's house is pretty suave. Listen, man, because he's so cool, you know what I'm going to keep the puff on, man. You know what it is freezing.

It's good climate control in here. I'm offended at you guys. It's a beautifully climate controlled place. I really appreciate this. The lighting's great. You have sunglasses on a hat. Listen, man. It's not covering your ears.

It's my first time in New York in two years. Really? Hey. Yeah, since we had our Webster show back in fall of 21. Yes. It's actually is a year, but the pandemic makes it feel like too. That was sure to thrashed. I'm wearing a shirt.

It has been a while. How do you feel being back here? What's the energy like? You feel like the energy in the city is totally different? Last time I was here, I was in a, you know, a wonderful relationship. Okay. I haven't been single in New York in like half a decade. That sounds like a great record.

Single in New York? That should be the name of your next record. Oh, man. There was a whole show. It was called Sex and the City. But. We've seen the serious. No, it feels good.

No, it feels good to be back in New York. The energy is great. You know, we have our project coming out on Friday. Yep. First time being independent. And just grateful. First time being independent. First time being single.

It's a lot of firsts. Do you feel like volume three is more personal? Because I know you've written things from other people's perspectives and you're that type of writer that you don't necessarily have to be going through it to write a song about it. Do you feel like this is the first? project that's fully emotionally about your personal experience? You know, me and Vow were talking about that, where this one is definitely a bit more of my,

you know, personal story. Yeah. Whereas on volume one and volume two, you know, she was with my best friend that I grew up with and I was just kind of witnessing what was happening and able to have just like this bird's eye perspective as to what was going on. And that kind of drove a lot of the. creativity whereas now yeah definitely i mean i wrote like nine records and seven days in greece and we're just able to experiment with a whole a whole bunch of different sounds that i feel

like i haven't in the past and um the short answer is yes obviously you know she helped me through every single kind of record and she helped you know elevate it and take it there um but it's definitely the most personal of the four mixtapes no it got reversed now she had to channel your ex She said that Speak for her Bro, she said that When she was singing this hook When we were writing it

She was like, damn I really got to take it there Because I know this feeling of like Let me know If you scroll down You can see these lyrics Like I'm so broken You know, let me go

It's up a little bit My walls painted up with Novocaine Look around I don't feel the thing here Yeah, you're talking that too I like that type of shit is odd I can't hide that I'm in denial Every convo overcomposate

Selling dreams No that ain't my style Hey there needs to be a series Where it's just mall reciting my lyrics And that is like This is a roll out A audiobook of just small reading The entire volume 3

I recognize like just a cool way of saying Yo listen I know I fucked up But what do you want me to This is this is the life I'm in This is You know the life You know what I mean

That's straight cap Yeah I mean No wonder It was garbage You know to tell a girl sometime Like listen I didn't choose this life You know what I mean

Like they just woke up And one day They were just outside Screaming my name What you want me to do You know what I mean I still love you though I will say this

This is not one of those situations Where like fools sitting and get You know girls back in high school And then all of a sudden Caught a little break Because that to me is just like The epitome of I don't really respect

Or job with those kind of people And I've seen it happen a lot especially in my city, like Fools will, you know, just catch a check and then they'll start acting hella different. Now, that's cool. I'm not into that. And that's why I said this has very little to do with her and everything to do with me and just, you know, all the shit that I carpeted for all those years, getting to the bottom of it.

After that. Hmm. Where do I want to go with this? We'll get away from your personal life for a second. You know too much. I know. Because I do respect the personal boundaries. So, all right, I'll pivot a little bit here.

Outside of being newly single, newly independent. And as someone that's been in this business for, shit, 13 years? 12 years since I was 21, yeah. Been through the major label system. Now with the independent system, what's been the difference was we have a lot of creatives that are our listeners, audience, as well as a lot of musicians, a lot of people that are trying to break into the music industry, don't fully understand it,

know that, all right, if I catch a major label lick, I'll get in advance and feel like I've made it 10 years later, feel like shit. What's been this process? Because you've been on both sides of it. Look,

I want to say it's not like one size fits all. And I really do give a big shout out to, especially our partners in the past. Like when we had Day and Galant going through Warner in 2015, And then obviously when we did our shit with Darkest and the Trees, an island in 2019, there was a time and a place and they all did a great job. But there comes a time where the cost of doing business just isn't worth it anymore. And when you got someone that's in their 50s or 60s that doesn't speak the language of what you're working on, communicating your music or your art to these platforms, from that perspective, it doesn't make sense. And same goes for, you know, when you talk about like A&Ring or marketing, it's like, well, if you don't live this and you're just like kind of ticking a box, I don't need 19 cooks in the kitchen.

You know, I'm writing, producing, mixing, all this shit with our internal team. And I actually enjoy that. It's not like a chore. It's like a lot of people are like, oh, well, I got to get in and do these sessions. And then I got to go and find a mixer. But these are all experiences and shit that I really learned from. And then when you bust it down to the business of it, and I think this is where there's, to me,

a really high level of confusion. And for simple math, you know, if you sign for a million dollars and you get a great deal with these majors, you do an 80-20, you know, an 80-20 royalty deal, out the gate you're in for $5 million. And some people don't understand, well, how did you get that number? It's like, well, for every dollar that they gave you, you got to recoup 5x.

because 20 times 5 is 100. So same goes that they give you tour support. And all of a sudden, the $100,000 to go on tour, that's $500,000 you're in a whole. And for the 49 artists on that dart board, or let's say there's like a major label

and they throw 50 darts at a board, that one artist is going to pay for the 49 mistakes. But if you're in that 49 and you're not careful, you may get to a place where not only like you lose your passion or you lose your love for it, but you also just get disillusioned to the business. And it's not the artist's fault. It's not the major's fault because the people that are at the majors running it have no control.

It's an archaic business model built by really old people that are out of touch. And the new business model isn't educated or there isn't a healthy form of educating the new business model because there's not enough people winning in that regard. And the ones that are catch a big generational bag, you know, whether it's 20, 30, 40 million to go and do a deal after they've been independent. And they don't talk about how they built that. So, by the way, it's not cheap. Up until five days ago, I was like shaking in my boots,

trying to figure out how we're going to fund this tour, how I can keep trying to make like orange textured vinyl and these candles and all the flash shit that we want to make. But at the same time, make sure the music gets heard. Like, it costs a quarter million to take a record to radio. If you do that with the major, out the gates, you'd be in for whatever that is, 1.25. So you've got to pick your spots a little different.

And sure, being on a 90-10 profit split where you own, that's awesome. But how are you incentivizing your partners? You know, my best friend is my art director, my creative partner. He has equity on shit that we work on. If I was trying to give like a zero to one plan for an artist, if you're just like somebody in a studio making music and you're trying to build your team, find partners. This is what I didn't learn when I was.

I was, you know, failing in 23 years. It took me that nine, ten years because I didn't understand how do you align your interests with these people? Well, you got to treat them like fair partners. You know, our management partner, Brit. She has equity. She's effectively like the CEO of emotional oranges. You know, Rory is obviously doing a lot of the help A&R and marketing and brandy, but somebody

needs to run the business. Yeah. Roy has, you know, three full-ass jobs. I got three full-ass jobs. Well, who's going to run it? Brittany's incredible. But there's also those horror stories then. When you look at it and it's like, well, I managed such and such.

They got to X-level line on Coachella and they fired me. A couple of my close friends did this to their managers. There's no equity in that. So just trying to reimagine, like, how are you building your business to get to a place where maybe in the beginning it makes sense to take that funding from a major and do a lopsided deal. But when you get out of that shit, restructural. and making sure that everyone involved feels like, like, don't just say partners

because if you're paying them, if they're catching a wage on a first and a 15th or not a partner. So that's why I was like, hella passionate leaving the major is because I understood I got the information that I needed and was able to apply it in real time.

Sorry for the rent. Oh, no, that was still. That was very necessary to hear that. And it's interesting because I do love that independent and talking about independence has become so trendy and I don't mean that in a bad way.

What type of artist do you think makes sense on a major? As far as what their business model would be or the type of music that they're trying to make or the audience they're trying to get to would make sense on a major versus someone that would make sense independently. Because obviously with EO everything for the most part is in-house. Like what the fuck does a major

outside of funding? What's the point of a major? I had to be really, really honest and check my ego at the door and be a little like brutally self-aware. Maybe the shit that we're making you know at the time with the deal I was 29 maybe I'm a little too

old to pop off commercially and be able to look myself in the mirror and go well shit I could still build an arena touring fan base and you know my favorite artist when when I bust it down to like you know Janet gorillas and shot at that's like my North Star shit then

I mean guerrillas just caught their second lick this year with all the TikTok shit happening I saw Damon Albaugh on perform at the forum 10,000 tickets at 54 years old. It felt like he was 34 and he's making eight figures a year quietly. And he can go to the grocery store and still cop shit and go back. Right. So for me, it was really hard to not be like I want to grow up and be like the people that I saw on, you know, B, ET and MTV.

And it's all good if I create this really ill cult base with my family, essentially at this point. like y'all are fucking like my brothers and sisters and shit like i prefer that i'm cool with that um but that was that was really really challenging to be honest because you have to kind of like let one dream die in order for another one to kind of be born if that makes sense but do you feel like it's a necessary thing like you have to go through uh the the having the the deal to learn the business and then you say okay i would rather do this independently and give my friends and the people around me, ownership and build this thing together. Like a lot of people come in now to say, they want to be independent.

They want to be independent out the gate. Do you think that's a good thing? Or do you think it's sometimes necessary to, you know, go through the label thing and learn that part of it, but then eventually get to a place where you own everything? I completely agree. And also, you can just do more healthy deals now. It's like almost like the status quo to do licensing deals with these majors. But even then, make sure you understand.

the business because sometimes it's better to have them take more of the pie so they can bring to life your vision. I'll keep it super G with you. I have no interest in waking up at 6am and getting on a phone call with a radio plugger in Singapore, bro. My talents are much better utilized in a studio here with y'all like, you know, trying to think of some creative merch shit. I have no interest in talking to like, oh boy in Madrid trying to get my shit on the radio. I don't even know what the, I don't speak Spanish like that. So why would I, so understanding, well, wait a second, if I do this deal with such and such major, and if you really had the leverage to do that and your song is already working in set places,

that's where they can come in and amplify at a real level. But if you're naive and you got to remember, this is, I thought about not saying this shit, and I feel like I need to because we're at this place. Right now, the way that the music industry is built for everyone involved, not just the major labels, it's incentivizing the short-term bag. So the business manager is catching 5% the lawyer is catching 5% the manager's catching 20%

all this is up front of whatever you sign on the front end. But they're not incentivized in the long run. So if some shit happens to you, God forbid, they've already, they might not even finish the agreements for your album. If you do some foul shit,

they already made their money. But if they were partners and it was in the long term of your product, I promise you your business manager, your manager, and your lawyer would want to own those rights for the long term if they saw a future with you. So bringing those people into the fold out the gate

and making sure y'all see eye to eye, all that shit is like a relationship. And we have to level the playing field financially and from an incentivizing perspective for everyone involved. That's where I think this shit is fucked up. It's not because the majors are doing bad deals. If you had a good team,

that wouldn't even be talking to the majors to begin with. Unless you had a, like bro, if we catch a viral TikTok moment right now, You think Rory wants to wake his ass up at 5 a.m. I'm going to talk to Singapore. No. No. They want to get it.

And if Tungi wants to give us 10 million, he's like, yo, you guys started something. You built a great base. It's super cute. We're going to go and make this thing a hit. We could just do one project together. You could send us the art, the songs, the none, no, no. But yeah, but we're in our early 30s now. We've already, we've seen the fuck shit.

We're doing 3,800 tickets in L.A. At the Palladium. we're doing Brooklyn steals we're doing history in Toronto we're but that's because it's been three and a half years of rigorous touring right so if you haven't done that and you're like on TikTok and you catch your moment some people it's food and beverage and that's fine if it's food and beverage and you can be honest with yourself and everybody involved cool catch your bag right but if you're in this because you want to make great art and you want to create something that lasts that's a different conversation that's a whole different trajectory and as long as the

people on your side, you know, can disseminate the two, then you're good money. But, I mean, that's speaking from a deserved leverage standpoint, because, yeah, Tungi could say, I'll give you 10 mil because you've done this before. But a TikTok's not going to give you leverage with a major. And for the most part, not really matter in the long run if your TikTok viral moment isn't based off publishing you own to begin with. So I see what you're saying. Most artists don't go in with that leverage at all.

Do you think there is a world where walking in and taking the bullshit deal is worth it? Because you can start to build with some capital, some leverage for the next three projects. So right now, if you go to Bank of America and you have a credit score between $650 and $800,000, you can get a bank loan of $100,000 for on average about 8%. So if I did the math for you right now on $100,000 deal, which I just did on an $80,000, on that 80-20 you owe back 500,000. If you go to Bank of America, you owe back 108,000 while it scales up. You're not the first person that I've heard talk about this bank loan shit. It's very difficult, especially an artist that's usually 18, 19, 20 years old.

To be able to walk into a bank and be like, yo, my mixtape, bro. It's very difficult to do that. That's why I don't blame a lot of these kids for signing bullshit deals because they just don't know. No, I don't blame the kids at all. I blame the lack of information and the people involved. I got a 50-year-old lawyer who said he's done. X amount of deals and he's encouraging you to do such. Ask him if he's listening to your music. Tell him the name's track seven on your tape, bro. Or ask him how long he's been working for the

label that he's negotiating with. Right. And then they build their deals in for 35 to 50. By the way, I'm not here to shit on lawyers, but I'm saying once again, if y'all are incentivized in the long run of my career, you wouldn't want me to do that. If I told you on STEM, I'm giving you 5% in perpetuity of X record, you would fight for dear life to make sure that. that we own that. So then act the same way when it's time. Like, that's just the way that I look at it. Mm-hmm.

I want to know how much... I like it. We had a conversation years ago. How much trouble do you think the record industry would be in if an artist like Drake, Rihanna, and Adele went independent? Why don't we just talk about Brent Fias for a second? Okay. I was looking at some weirdo stat on some R&B blog page And it said that Brent's gonna have

The highest grossing Album of a year in R&B in the US In the US, okay So let's say we're seeing on average between Spotify and Apple $4,000 per million streams And he just posted his little joint He did a billion on Spotify Would you

If you're someone like Brent Fias do the opposite. Would you go to the major? And these are questions that I ask myself seeing this bad bunny shit saying he's getting 40 million per album and he's on a 90-10 with The Orchard, which by the way, bro, if y'all are signed to an independent that goes through one of the three majors, you were not independent. You're music. From a catalog perspective, from a market share perspective, is owned by Sony. So, but by the way, here's, you're doing stadiums. He's my favorite, just like creative right now in the space. Brent? No, a bad bunny.

From the music side, yeah, Brent, for sure. And yeah, I mean, look at this shit that he's pulling up. You can see it. He did, what, 95,000 first week? That shit is fucking astronomical, bro. Like, Brent doing those numbers, the infrastructure tie and Jane built that STEM helped build, that's something that I strive for. How do I feel if Drake and Adele and such and such went independent? The short answer is they could probably write their own deal at this point. they probably all already have, and it behooves them not to do that because that's actually the button getting pressed.

When your song goes out and your name is Drake and you've had 101 top tens, you'd think future Oliver want to get on the phone with Madrid and try to work this shit in Spain? No, bro. Here's a 92-8 for 250 million. Whatever universal label wants to do it, run it up. But that's a leverage thing too because Drake Adele and them are going to get a deal at a major that no one else can get because the major doesn't want to make sure they keep them there because like mall is saying imagine if they went independent it would fuck up the entire ecosystem

so they're going to give Drake a deal that no other person could get on a major but to your Brent point outside of the money he's making let's start what's the Drake and Brent record that the Neptune's produced wasting time wasting time and I don't know how much we can really say because I fuck with tie in them and I don't want to say too much shit we're not allowed to. The craziest part about that entire thing was not what that record made it was that Universal bowed down to STEM.

Brent was able to show that you can have leverage independently that a major that was threatening to take that song down because Drake hadn't cleared it, quote unquote. Oh, he did, but it was a market share thing, right? But it wasn't for

Universal's sake to make them feel good. that's what we don't really talk about and I wish Brent did more interviews and Ty did more interviews because that's the win right there. An independent artist made a major bow down with the leverage that they had of saying we're going to take this record down.

No the fuck you're not. You're not taking it down. Hey, listen, I think it feels like the second coming of like the golden era or whatever for our generation and I'm just really thankful to be at a place where like

To me, it all feels like it's an even playing field, and I understand it all, which that is the most exciting shit, is knowing like, you know, we work on an artist called child, obviously, together. And that felt really appropriate to be upstream to Tungi Latrice and the team because he has grandiose visions of how he wants to tour. and when you want to have a nine piece or whatever and you're like doing 500 tickets, then we need some support. And if you have an idea for a music video and you want to shoot it back in your hometown in Montreal, you probably need 70, 80, 90 bands.

But for us, when it's really just like me, Brando, Val, Brit, you, like the internal team coming up with the creative, we're not burning cash on videos and we're trying to get music out and put on even cooler shows. I'm not really stressing over some weirdo marketing budget that I got to pay back at 500%. Yeah.

I want to create something that's going to live longer than I am. And I think that's the key of this whole thing is being able to help educate the next generation so that when they're making their decisions, at least they're looking around and being able to be a little more creative with how they structure their internal companies. y'all can start if you're an artist you're 18, 19, 20, y'all can start an LLC with your art or creative director. Y'all can start one with your producer, with your manager. You want to make sure that they spend time on you.

That's a really great way to do so. Y'all wonder why your manager has to go out and get two or three other clients and take a paying job at the label where it's like, they're not making shit off you. And they're worried that just like their contemporaries, they might build you up and you might fire them. So I think it's a really healthy discussion to have.

like if y'all really rock with each other for the long run then build something together have ownership together and that's just to me that's more sexy anyways like this weirdo shit of like building some shit with somebody and then oh but I've always been the artist I write the none of nah it takes some other fucking

village to get your vision out there that's a fact so treat people that yo if you're on the other side of that would you be okay with it I highly doubt it talk about the the situation with Frank Ocean and what he did a few years ago

with his album and how... Because that, to me, still some of the most phenomenal shit. He was talking about David Blaine. That was some fucking magic. Yeah, like, talk about that. He got out of his deal better than anyone I've ever seen in my life.

How was Frank Ocean able to do that? It's why you bring that up. I was looking into that shit because, you know, I think he's going to be playing a festival that we're all really excited about next year. and we were on that same billing. I wish we would have played that day.

But that was some real magician shit for sure. Putting the record out because at the end of the day, it's a recording, right? It's like you put out 50 minutes of music as a visual. And then 24 hours later put it shit out indie through STEM. Shout out Milana. Shout out the whole team. I think that's a prime example of being able to do things on your own terms, incentivizing the people appropriately.

but also paying your dues. Do you feel, as someone that puts out a lot of music, do you judge artists like Frank that are on a schedule of once every five years we might see them? Because I think the music business has changed it. To be relevant and respected to some degree, you have to put out a lot of music. I love what Nas is doing because he's still proven he's one of the best because he can put volume out. We're in a volume world as far as music goes. You can't do the, I put an album out, I disappear for five years, and then I come back.

It's a different game. As someone that puts out a shit ton of music, do you look at Frank or shit, even Sizz is coming out this week? It's been another five years, I think, Siza. Right. Do you think that takes away as how you view them as artists because they take so much time to put music out? I think it's just to each their own with that shit. Like, you know, if you have to go through, if you're really writing your records, and obviously, Nas is writing all his stuff. shit. But Nas had time to, I want to say he's probably 50, right? 51? Yeah. Yeah. So, and that's like,

you know, my favorite, you know, writer of all time. Um, Nas? Yeah. Okay. dope. Um, okay, 50. And, uh, yeah, to each their own. I think Nas is obviously, like, him and hit her on some different, I've never seen something like this. We're having the conversation because, like, from a, from a mind perspective, from like, um, from an entrepreneurial perspective, I felt like him and hove or neck and neck. And in the past three years have been something just otherworldly with him and hit. And yeah, what they've been able to do is, I mean, at 49, 50 years old for him to, you know, be putting out this amount of, and then the knock on him for all the years was his, uh, his production was terrible.

Which I hate that. But this is dope. I think it's truth, bro. I think for a long time. No, nocta Prime. Like, look, since 2000. He didn't work with Prime that much. I think he has about half a dozen records with Prime and they're all pretty great.

New York State of Mine. Naz is like. What are the Pring records there? I mean, let's pull up Life's a bitch. Life's a Bish. There was a couple of Prim records on there. I'm saying he's had Lucy's the entire time. Maybe not albums, like you're saying.

but to Marl's point, having a consistent producer with one United Perspective in hit and someone who's of our generation, I think it's probably a year or two older than me. And that's what, but it's funny because that's what rap used to be. Exactly.

You'd be in one producer. Matter of fact, I'matic changed that. Yeah. Elmatic was the album where he grabbed a bunch of producers and I don't know, maybe I'm just defending Nas and that I think that's become a stereotype that has been embellished a bit,

that Nas just picks awful beats all the time. Because I could go through his whole discography I don't think he picks awful beats at all. I'm just saying I think this is the best or the most consistent run. He's had of great production through and through concepts on steroids. Absolutely. The art. Everything feels.

Not overthinking shit. Wait, let's look at this run real quick at the past three years. He did King's Disease August 21 of 2020. Number two, about a year later, August 6th. Magic, that same year, three and a half months later, December 24th. and King's disease a year later, number two on November 11th. In three and a half years, he did four of my favorite projects of his. Outside of it was written in Illmatic, I will put these four in the top six, seven.

I'm with you. I mean, obviously you can talk about still Maddoch being that combo. But once again, those to me... Life as good is up there for me too. Hell no way near King's Disease trilogy. No way. Well, all right, one album verse three is unfair. No, I'm sick.

Pick any one of them. Any one of them. I love lost tapes. So we're not calling that an album for the sake of this conversation? Of course. Because law states is top five, top six to me. I agree. I agree with you.

I would put life is good over King's Disease 1. Nah. I would. Can we see what's on Life is Good real quick? Life is Good was 444 before 444. It's the first mature. Yeah, but that's the way. I get what you're saying.

I understand what you're saying. Ever. Like, are you kidding me? Quint story is great. No introduction is insane. Accident murders is nuts. daughters is amazing. Reach out as a skip. World's addiction I like. Summer on Smash as a skip.

Nah. Nah. Nah. Not better than Kings. Nah, no way. I can't do it. Cherry wine was great, but that was in 2006. He repurpose vocals. Stay isn't. There's not one song on Kingssies 1 that's better than stay. I love say. Shout to Shalom, Remy, all over that one. Life is good is, to me, personally, a classic album. And I know I said two skips in there, but it's still classic. Nassie is on here, too? Okay, I didn't realize that. Bye baby. Are you...

Rose's a joke too. Like, come on. No, I don't know if it's a classic. By baby is hard. At least for Nas. Like, it's a classic and for anybody else's discography, but...

It's a classic in... I think this was the first album for us to watch hip-hop age. That's a good point. It's a mature album. It's not some older rapper looking corny trying to keep up at the time. It was the first time

we saw a grown-ass man rap album in this genre history. So I think When you compare it to 4444, my only issue is 444 felt a bit more concise. 444 is better. Don't get me wrong. No ID produced the majority of it, the whole thing. So it had a more clear perspective to me and I connected to it a little more.

I know we read the lyrics of your song. Yes, we know you. Oh, man. Oh, Lord have mercy. No, I think 444 is better, but I don't know if you get a 444 the same way without not nah, doing life is good. That's fair.

That's all I'm saying. 444 is, there's not a skip. It's 10 flawless. It's 10 flawless records. This album is not good enough credit, man. I feel like this shit changed hip hop in the 20, what is it, 2014?

Oh, 2017. No, it's 2017 for sure. 2017. Oh, okay. Oh, damn, this shit feels like yesterday. Fuck. Five years. Wow.

Yeah, this album, I'm with you. This album doesn't get talked about enough. I know a lot of people were saying they didn't like the way it was mixed Shut up That in the third I mean that was the thing That was the thing

When it first came up He was like oh it was mixed It sounded like They just got a rough mix on it They didn't like I don't know People just find any reason To pick shit apart

But this album is one of those albums I feel like that we don't talk about enough In hip hop classics And they'll kill us Because we think everything Jay does It's a classic But this is a really really solid album Top to bottom

I have it number four in his discography I was going to say it's number five for me. I put it over volume two now. Oh, wow. I'm not jumping out the window. No way. What's number three for you? Black?

I rotate between Blueprint and Black Album Switch. Praise one doubt is my favorite blueprint and black album Switch. This is fourth? Yeah. I think I put Volume 1 over this too. I think Volume 1 might catch...

In my lifetime? American Gangster might be over volume 2 at this point for me, as far as how it aged. personally like my personal rights you guys are from new york it's a little different for y'all yeah i just think what volume two did for him alone just set to the ball yeah super star but yeah also if we talk about blueprint two if it was if blueprint two got cut down into one album oh man that's the top five we shit on guru to his face about this all the time all the time she said you have to do a double album now yeah all the time we say that we're like yo if you just condensed that

Blueprint 2 to 1? Oh yeah. All right. Well, since we're talking about modern shit, I guess, where do you think R&B has gotten a lot of slack lately? Even though I think R&B is probably in one of its better places ever. Yeah, then it's been in the past 20 years. Yeah.

How do you feel about... Not according to ditty. Well, I'm not even talking about when Puff said about that. I'm talking about more of like maybe the real R&B purists that are involved with it right now because I don't think Puff is involved in R&B right now. So I don't think he's even allowed to talk about it, to be quite honest. He has a number one song.

That's not an R&B song. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. That's a pop song. Those are R&B drums. It's an R&B top line. There's basically no bass, but yeah. It's a pop song, bro.

All right, because it popped off, so it's a pop song, sure. No, it's a pop song. So pre did he take that? Even if it didn't pop off, it would be a pop song. Pre did he taking that, that was R&B record. Well, anyway, more so the people that are involved in R&B, and R&N to the... Thank you,

and for telling us the time. In Spanish next time. Take your birth control. What do you think about the whisper singers? Because that's been one... Look, I'm gonna be real with you. I think... Critique of R&B now

that I can listen to someone's debate on that. I like the whisper singers, but there are some purists that still champion R&B, but think the whisper singers are killing it. I think it's someone who, like, personally myself, who, like, I'm not a singer by nature. I'm a writer. I'm a producer.

And I have a good tone that I understand where it sits in the record. I feel like how you choose to bring that to life, how you choose to articulate that is totally up to you. But at the same time, I'm one of those. I don't love the bigger voices. Paul is like, it's just not really my speed. And I think it's just all about taste at the end of the day. I mean, I think of my favorite records of the year, when you talk about, yeah, Wasteland, you talk about Steve's shit, Gemini Wrights, Lucky, Candy, Drip. I would say he's probably the biggest voice.

Sabrina Claudio. Sabrina Claudio. I wouldn't put her in the big voice category, but. No, I was saying lucky. I'm saying Lucky is probably the biggest pause voice that I fuck with. But yeah, I really like Blast, Black. That's was dope. Frank, I mean, you're going through this list and I'm just like, I think everyone on here,

for the most part, outside of Able and Mary probably fall into this category. I mean, Twigs falls into this category. Amber falls into this category. What else we got? Well, no, I think there's a middle. There's like the whisper, whisper, and then the real singers. Like, I think, I think Amber Mark falls in like the middle ground. I don't think she's a whisper singer, but I also don't think she's the big voice either. Right.

But I also have a partner who can sing, you know, Val can sing all these people under the table. So it's, it is a little more of like the duality for us. And I'm, I've realized that like the fact that I'm writing my parts or writing, you know, on this shit is like helping the dudes that are, or the girls that are coming to the show that don't sing. I stay within the four to five notes. Whereas like if you're out here just like singing somebody's face off all song long, I don't like feeling like I'm being yelled at. So it's just, it's not sexy. I love Smino's album. I think he's a singer.

He doesn't get enough credit. Probably my favorite album in the year. Yeah. Outside of you just flying through, I promise. Hey, no, I'm not. Out on Friday. I would say, did bring out here. Yeah, I did come out this year.

I would say Brent shit is top three. Steve, for sure. I love Beyonce's album. I felt like it was more of a dance record than the R&B records. Yes, definitely dance album. Yo, Givion's album. Givion, yeah.

Why don't, no one really talks about? about it. Chris Brown. Chris Brown came out this year too. Gris is amazing. The Give-Eon album's good, man. It just doesn't get talked the way I thought it would. How do you feel about honestly, never mind, the Drake Project?

Like I said, I'm a Ronan, so like, for me, all the more, like, you know, dance and rhythmic grooves really speak to me. And I grew up, a lot of my cousins are like, you know, half Germany, half French, half Swedish and shit like that. So I've gone to Europe a lot growing up. So it made a lot of sense to me. I think it's dope. I love it.

Yeah, I spent a lot of time in Greece this summer and that's kind of all I heard out. And I don't know why he got so much slack. What did y'all expect? He made fucking one dance. Right. Like let him, like let him also how many people on this list can go and do that and have it feel seamless? Nobody. I don't get the hate.

I think it's corny. People, people, I don't know. They keep saying they want Drake to rap, rap, rap. I mean, he does rap. But, I mean, he's obviously, like you said, one dance. He's giving us glimpses. and songs that shows that he can make those type of records. And then I think he just decided to give us a whole project of it and have fun with it.

And then, you know, I mean, I thought the album was great. And like you said, the fact that he's able to even make an album like that and not sound like he's forcing it or it doesn't sound weird. It just speaks to the caliber of the artist that he is. Where do we rank 40 in 2022 if we look through the discography, that 40's done. From a producer's perspective or like a beat, like what is it? Just a producer?

Producer. Because he EP's for the most part, all of these, no? Even if he doesn't produce everything, 40 is the one that touches in a race. I mean, the sound, this motherfucker, that's his sound. I would say he's the alpha to me in terms of for our generation, the past decade, you can put Ali in the conversation for sure with other Kendrick and T. to E shit. Mm-hmm.

But from a sonic architect standpoint, I think that Toronto shit is kind of bled into the globe. Mm-hmm. Between him and Wanda, T-minus, you know, they're incredible. Because if you go through timestamp records that we love, to one dance, to honestly, never mind, is there another producer that has that type of range? This is a really good question for you.

How many records of 40 produce? I will argue he did one or none on this latest, honestly, never mind, but his fingerprints are all over it. That's what I'm saying. Even if he's not the direct producer, I think he produced two of them. Produced two of them. Okay, so usually that's what, not even, that's like 15%. Usually his motherfucker is done 50%.

Mm-hmm. Okay, so no, all right, 40 only did two records on, honestly, never mind. but 40's the type the amount of hats that he wears from an engineer to an executive producer to how he arranges all of Drake's shit to me he produced on every last one of these records and every single

Drake song period. Agreed. Because I think people get that fucked up like, all right, 40 didn't make the beat on this but 40 produced this fucking record. So I think he's probably, if not the number one producer of the last 20 years?

20 I would say he who shall not be named, but 10, 40. What was 20 years ago? 2012? 10 years ago, 20 years ago. 20 years ago, 20 years ago. Kanye West. Okay.

That's who, that's who would sit in my number one. Him or Farrell. Production wise, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Or Tim even. I mean, look, or Dre. I mean, we're coming out of like chronic era.

We're coming out of Missy, Genuine, Tim, basement era. Yeah. Virginia's shit. I mean, we're coming out of a lot in the late 90s and the 2000s. 2010 on, I think 40 is the best producer in music. I'm not saying hip-hop in music. From 2000 to 10 until now? Uh-huh.

I think 40 is the best producer. I mean, Drake is probably the best artist. I think a lot of the stuff that he got, which we can... In the last 12 years, so... We can bring up Kanye. I think a lot of 40 sound does come from 80s and heartbreaks, but the way 40 is elevated... His perspective is completely different, though. I agree.

I'm saying the way he took some of that moodyer sounds and some of... some of that like 80s fucking shit he took to another place. So to me personally, I don't think 40's ever talked about the way he should be talked about. The way we talk about Kanye, I think 40 is in that conversation producer-wise. I do. I would say my favorite producer the past 10 years is a guy called Dante Jones of day. Because I think to me, production is centered around perspective and how you're kind of just helping produce a trajectory, a career as opposed to a beat.

And, you know, when you grow up on shit like Devante swing and you grow up on Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis and you grow up on these true producers. He is my, and obviously he's like one of my best friends. I've lucky enough to been, I've just like, I've learned kind of under his tutelage, whether it was helping sign the they boys or working with him on some of my EEO shit or working with him on some of your shit. Yeah, I think 40, obviously, in terms of what he's done, can't be discounted. But we're talking about my favorite producer of the 2010s, you know, I would put him in the conversation.

I think hit has to be in the combo now. Hit is definitely in the conversation. Hit, to me, is the most versatile producer probably in past five. Where do y'all put Travis as a producer? And can you explain better to, I guess, regular fans the difference between something like a beat maker and a producer yeah i think a lot of it doesn't take away from them but a lot of people send out packs but to me a producer is you know a creative that sees a vision for an artist or a song and they produce the environment

that they're coming to write into whether it's they know well shit that candle and that meal are really important to that our artists that gets them in a right headspace whether they know, you know, I could play keys or I could play such and such, but I know a better keys player and I know a better guitar player and I'm going to create this room that is going to bring the best out of you and the best out of me. That's like, in short, what I consider to be a producer versus a beatmaker. You know, I personally haven't played keys or guitar or bass on any of the emotional oranges songs, but I'd say on like 85 to 90% of them, whether it was us flipping a sample that I found, by sending it to my guitar player,

whether it's coming up with the drum loop. Yeah, shout out to Mitch. Coming up with the drum loop that I wanted to build out with Tay or with Yanni or going A to Z on the musicians that I brought in and writing the music for them to go in reference when they're adding parts. That to me is producing a record, which is why I don't like when people throw shade it, calid or puff,

if they don't have context to whatever record it was. I've never taken a record outside. So a lot of people will take a song that was sent to them. And once again, there's no knock to that. If you're a performer, if you're an incredible vocalist, but you're not, you don't feel like you have enough to write about at that point. We'll take an outside song. But for me, I've never done that.

And I admire producers that are building artists from scratch, which is why 40, to me, if he's not the one, he's probably the 1A of the past 10 to 15 years, because he took an artist that nobody knew about, nobody cared about, probably counted out quite a bit and took them all the way to the finish line and more. Literally created a sound. You got to put D. Mile in that conversation

over the past five years as well. I'm looking at this list that I got on the board. I mean, when I'm thinking about these artists, who's in the conversation? Drum-wise R&B last five years, cardiac, I would have to put. Cardiac is there. Specifically with drums. I think a lot of people starting to bite.

I hear a lot of records now that I could tell people listen to what cardiac does and R&B and bites everything that he's doing. Absolutely. Because EO is so in-house, do you think you ever toyed the idea of getting in with other producers? I think making music,

just writing in general, such an intimate process that I'd have to have some kind of like relationship with someone else. I am cool with D. Mile and I do look. up to him in a lot of ways. I think that'd be really dope and would make a lot of sense. But like I said, one of my best friends is my favorite producer of all time, arguably, Dante

Jones. And I think Yanni from Child is another incredible producer. So why would I look outside for what I feel like I already have helped cultivate within? It just seems corny to me. Look, a lot of people, you know, wait their whole lives and they're like, well, when I get here, I'm going to go and get such manager. I'm going to get such art director. I feel like, you know, my best friends, you know, Branda, who does all the art and creative for us. you and Britt and Dante Yanni and then Valley as a singing and writing part. These are to me, this is the final level. I'm not like, this shit doesn't turn me on.

Like, I feel like y'all can put me neck and neck with any of these people. And let's look back in 10 years and see what time it is. Like, that's the shit I'm on. Yeah. And I'd rather bill with people that I've felt like, I don't know. Maybe I'm nuts. Maybe I'm not seeing something that's making these projects be more quote-unquote successful. but like I don't find myself enjoying sessions.

I've done the session thing. And I think it's, it feels like speed dating. It's just lame as shit. Like I, what am I supposed to? I don't even know. I don't like you.

Yeah. I wouldn't go to dinner with you. Why am I going to write a song with you? Why am I going to write a song with someone like you're trying to get to know, like in at the same time? It's a very interesting experience. That's why I told Britain. Obviously,

Brit and my publishers, Jeremy over at Concord, have been super respectful for signing the level of deal that I signed. They should have been trying to horn me out to get in as many writing sessions as possible, but they've all really respected the process. It's not going to happen tomorrow for me or for us, but they've at least bought into the vision as a whole. And that's why I'm never turning my back on no one that I built this shit with.

Because even people like, I look at Lucky on this list. And I'm like, I first heard about Lucky Day as a songwriter in the early 2010s. Stop running this shit that he popped off overnight. That man has put his work in. Absolutely. He's fucking incredible. lot of these people too on his list, bro. Like, I don't know.

Lancy Fo's amazing. You know, by the way, what is this list? Where did you get this from? This is R&B albums in 2020. Yeah. According to Google. Hey, Trent, you better, this is the hip-hop D-X shit. Well, Trent, you better add us, bro.

When this shit drop. Is this hip-hop? I just think it's like a general releases. This is a release over the year. I love Shy Girl, too, but she's, I don't think she's making R&B. It's more like electronic shit. Sudan Archives is incredible, too. Well, I mean, I think even to your point not to bring Drake in 40 back up, but I saw them talk about Thank Me Later and how much they don't care for that album because Drake finally made it and they had the opportunity to work with every major producer and feature that they could come up with and they hated it.

Like, that's not our best album because we were finally like, all right, we get to work with Alicia, the dream. Yeah. And of course, we all love them, but sometimes that's not the best recipe for you as an artist when you have. have access to everybody. Sometimes the in-house team is what really works. But if you're 23 and that gave you $2 million, and you're coming up under Wayne Carter 3. Yeah, I'm hitting TI at Swiss beats immediately.

By the way, they hit me now in my early 30s. Yeah. I look up to Jeff Basker. You know, obviously I know Matt and Jordan. I don't know they worked on the up all night. That's dope. Yeah, Kanye is on here. Francis from Francis in the Lights is incredible.

So good. What have they been doing lately? I have no idea, but one of my favorite mixing, just like the prismizer that he came up with, which is basically like, it's like harmonizing from a vocal perspective, and he ran it through from a MIDI and started kind of creating tracks out of it.

Like, he's on some shit. Yeah, the chance, exactly, the chance to rap record, man, I heard this dance. Yep. I thought him and Chance were going to do the whole project together. Was the last time I heard Friends and Lice, and I know Ye was fucking with that for a while. But if you were 23 and your whole shit, you looked up to, yeah, T.I.

You have to. You have to. Hey, ho. Of course. But I did like that perspective years later when Drake and 40 were like, yeah, we're not mad that we did that. But it wasn't what worked out best for us. It's at the bottom, in their opinion, of his catalog. And you understand why.

Yeah. I understand why. I get it. Like internally, just knowing what they really want to do, what they really work on. That was just that they had to make that type of album. They had to stand next to those names. Drake had to be next to those artists on this album. I get it.

But ultimately, I think what they had now is this is what this shit that they really want to do now. 100%. All right, we can pivot again because I don't want to get too much more in personal stuff. Do you want to go back to our first conversation to ask you about your breakup again. But I'll leave that one left. Since you've been on the road for a while, have you ran into a lot of...

You are Iranian. Iranian. All right. Did I not, I'm from New York. That's how we say it. Insensitive. Come on, Rooney. Damn.

I'm definitely going to correct Roy. I have to correct, Roy. Let's get them on. Iranian. There's not a lot of artists, at least in our genre demographic, where Iranian artists are seen. Have you run into people within your culture that are happy that the type of current music, they finally have a face. that they can see and feel like they're represented. I'm really glad you asked.

It's a big reason why I even wanted to come and shop it up with y'all. It's like just growing up, there wasn't that person for me that I could look up to that was like making soul full records, whether it was hip hop or R&B shit, that I could point to and be like, let me try to, you know, reverse engineer this and look up, you know, I can't explain it because. When you grew up in his household where like, you know, Farsi's your first language and your parents, they're separated, but they've never seen anything, quote unquote, good monetarily. Success wise come out of the arts. It's challenging as shit not to like go down the path that every other Middle Eastern family is encouraging their kid to do, which is typically like be a doctor, be an engineer, be a lawyer, which is nothing wrong with that.

We need way less artists and way more doctors. Y'all, if y'all are trash, put your shit down. Stop it. No, I'm kidding. I've heard a few trash doctors, though. Oh, that part. But that's also the system. That's a whole different thing.

I'm not getting into that. Look, what I'll say is I see a whole lot of the Middle Eastern population showing up. Even when we were in Australia, I saw like eight women in hijabs. Some of them were Moroccan. Some of them were Somali. Some of them Ethiopian. and I'm personally not Muslim, but my grandparents were Muslim.

And I think it's really important to have someone that you connect with in this space for you to be able to point to it and be like, well, if he can do it and he's mediocre, I can definitely do it. Do you feel like you have any... I guess that's funny. If that guy can do it.

If he can do it. Two-stepping and singing his five-note bullshit I can definitely do it. I can make you. I can make you. Do you feel like though now there is any responsibility? Are you nervous about that? Where maybe you just want to make songs rather than be the face of probably a less represented culture within R&B.

Is there some type of pressure where you feel like I have to be that guy now? I have to focus on making sure I'm representing our culture the best way I can rather than, hey, I just want to make good music and don't want to be identified. as the face of this culture. I mean, luckily, I don't think we've done much. And I'm still kind of writing or helping write our history. But I decided I feel like probably in March when we got that drop letter. Yeah.

That I wanted to just help educate the youth more, not only on you could do this shit no matter where you're from who you are, but even from the independent perspective, because I didn't feel like they would. even if you know somebody this independent artist most of the time they don't know what the fuck's going on and I was like those are two things that over the next five years

I want to dedicate real time to is like helping give more opportunity to people that look and you know whatever look like me and come from where I come from but also want to take maybe a different approach a non-traditional approach

to building their business and releasing their music and And yeah, shout out to my mom. I feel like, you know, looking back, I'm really grateful that I had, you know, my dad's a poet. He's a writer. And him and my mom split up when I was two, but my mom took me to piano classes for five years and then violin classes for another four. And really encouraged the arts early on.

And even though he grew up Section 8 type shit, like with, they've had really difficult lives. they gave me the tools that I needed and never fucking, if anything, I think they put the battery of my back to go and pursue the creative shit, whereas most people I know that were in my shoes, whether they grew up poor, middle class, rich, I think they were just shunned by their families if they decided they wanted to go down, even pursuing sports. Like, how many Iranians do you know in the league right now, bro? Like, I'm a fucking NBA fanatic. I can't name any.

Yeah. that's a problem. So I think culturally, like that shit is even designers. I know Melody's killing it right now. I just want to see more representation in the arts in general. So I want to try to lead by example and sure it's a big responsibility, but we ain't shit yet. So I got a lot of work to do. And I'm going to leave it at that.

Don't say that. You guys have been all right. You just did Coachella. Yeah, you've been doing some shit, bro. You got a lot of shit done out here. What was the first moment that your family was like, oh, all right, I get it. What was one of those? Will your mom stop telling you to get a job?

Yeah. It's like, oh, wait, this is, this could work. Yeah. Coachella. I'm going to give more credit than that. She came to see me, we sold out the L-ray, which is where I saw Frank in 2012. Mm-hmm. We saw out the Elwood, like on the on sale, right?

Yeah. It was like day one or some shit. And she came and it was like, it wasn't like some weird old industry shit that usually the first shows are. It was like 800 fan fans. And we had announced the show with four songs out. I think she was in, first of all, she was in tears. But second off, she was like, how?

It was day of. Right. Didn't we announce a day of? It was so, it was 2019. I have no idea. It was so long ago. Yeah. And my dad, my dad came to San Francisco.

His girl, he's been with this. girl for 20 years. Her name's Wendy and she brought him and you know my dad's blind and she escorted my dad backstage and he was like he's an incredible writer and incredible post where he's done readings but he's never been to a concert concert for me like that. So she you know we walked him upstairs and um yeah he was just he was just like hysterical kind of like just in tears being like they all came for you you know like how and he's like you really he's like you're like you really he's like you did it. He's like, this is the dream. And it had to kind of shake me a little bit and be like, you know, I know you're in your

head like it didn't happen for you when you were 23. But I think at the time we did Great American Music Hall. It was probably like 2930. And I felt, I'd felt like it was hard to step into my power. It was just like, I think just in general it was just hard to be like, you know how it is. I mean, you guys are kind of the same. We don't want to fucking. Yeah, no. That's why I'm relating everything you're saying. Like, when you, you feel a moment. where it's like, oh shit, it's happening. And you see it and the people are, you know, giving you so much love and support. And then your family is kind of like, okay, everything that he was chasing and he said he wanted to do, he's doing it.

It's happening. We're here. We're supporting. And it's, you know, families crying. Everybody's just happy to see that you finally are doing what you set out to do. I saw, we were actually. I mean, I'd be mad at my family. That is a Rory thing.

What's fucking 10, 10 years of like, ah, what is he doing over there? I fucking told you, Mom. Now they love it. Now they rave about you at work, right? Rest and peace of my grandparents at the Chicago show, Emotional Orange's, my grandma was like, I think Roy's doing like a Broadway play in Chicago. Where did you even get that from?

Metro Theater 2019. They were so fucking sweet, man. They walked up like fucking how many flights of steps and the whole time. Like, I think it's a Broadway play. I'm like, grandma. There's nothing to do with Broadway. There's nothing to do it.

They just see a stage in a theater. They're like, oh, it must be he's on Broadway. No, Mom. This is nothing like Broadway. We're not doing that. I saw your show, The Last Emotion Orange show in L.A. at the Nova, I believe. Yes, sir.

That was a great show. And a great show. And I told Rory, I was like, I got to come to some all these live shows. And then I caught you out here in New York at Webster Hall. And the crowd is just a different, different type of crowd, different vibe. It's like everybody. It's like a community. Yeah, man.

Everybody's on the same wave, the same drugs. you know the same. It's just like the drug of emotion. Yeah, it's just like everybody's on the same shit. But it's women. It's guys. It's different cultures. How does that make you feel looking out to audience and seeing your music and your words

touch so many people from different parts of the world? First of all, I'm just super fucking grateful. There was a 12-year-old at our show and there was their 52-year-old dad. Oh, we beat you around. We had a three-week-old at our show. We beat you out on that. We had an actual fresh out the womb.

That's so far. Show in D.C. Fresh out literally. I wish Britt would have brought Dawson when she came to L.A. We would have beat child by a week. No, man. I think like I said,

I'm trying to accept those like the love and the flowers a little more because I feel like it's a bit fleeting. And it's ill. I never thought we helped cultivate such like a dope, diverse community where, yeah, It just feels like high school again, except not with the toxic shit.

You know, like everyone, like all different walks of life are kind of chilling at the, kind of in that circle together. And no one's judging each other. You know, we have all type of different, you know, whether it's, you know, lesbian, gay, old, young, brown, white, everything. And Julian. Yeah. He's all those things. He's Lebanese and black. So he kind of falls into that mix perfectly.

And fluid. And fluid. Okay. Yeah. They call me sexual and gender fluid. He's sexually ambiguous in the face. Yeah. You're out of control.

No, the progressive point you were making them, so. No, it's love. I think, look, at the end of the day, this shit feels like when we used to go to, like, house parties in the early 2000s, and that was intentional, and I want that shit to keep. I want to definitely house party energy. Yeah.

Just dev up. Shit, what I learned from the first show you guys ever did in Toronto was, that the single is the least important part of a show. Remember when corners of my mind went off? Crazy. After the show, we were like, wait, we didn't know that was the song that everyone fucking ran right to.

And EO has been, I feel like a master class in B-Sides when it comes to live shows. And I have to be really clear here, this is impossible without Valley. I could barely two-step to somebody's fucking drum grooves. she's out here making my job incredibly easy. This is the best performer outside of Prince that I've seen live and to have her as my partner and someone who kind of pushes the boundaries and helps empower me.

Yeah, I just like, I got it easy. She's real. And I wish people knew, you know, I've cut so many vocalists in my life. I've written with so many people in my life. This shit feels like water. Like we get in the room and it comes out like, like Paul. I was like nothing else I've ever worked on. And when something is that easy, usually it's the right thing to do.

Yeah. You know, like if y'all are that on that playing field and that kind of wavelength together. And so we push through some wild shit. Obviously, you know, being signed to a major and not being able to put out shit for a year and a half was difficult. But like losing a quarter million on touring. All these things that like, she's like, no, bro. Like I believe in this wholeheartedly and kind of has given her, you know, her time and life to this just like Brittany has like Brando has like you like a lot of people have that's why

I think we see the community that we do and they got the love that they got it's not because somebody sat in a room and fucking mastermind of some shit like Magneto bro it's like yeah you know listen I used to go I used to go to Valley's job when she was waitressing like it's crazy it's crazy to see the shit her on stage of Coachella and I'm like I'm I'm went to your job when he was a waitress like this group is it Yeah. Shout out to Vow. I really love you, man.

This is like, you know, four years in the making, finally. And you guys aren't fucking, because that's what the world wants to know. Absolutely not. It's one of my best friends. Oh, people still on that? People still. Oh, absolutely. Yeah?

Yeah. My mom is still convinced. Oh, man. My mom was at Brooklyn Steel like, there's too much chemistry. I think just because Vow's, you know, an incredibly beautiful, attractive woman all across the board. Motherfuckers want to just. Yeah. I have no chance.

Yeah. Well, we know that. Fuck what you're good at closing these episodes out Well Zah listen man Thank you for coming and kicking it with us for a few man We appreciate it This is dope I feel like I got to learn more about you

I hear so much about you for Rory Obviously I love emotional oranges I love what y'all are doing I love the branding I love the you know Everything y'all doing the candles It's just fly shit It's just a certain level of taste

A certain level of class That y'all are moving with with your brand And shout out to you, shout out to Val, and everybody with the Emotion Orange's team, Avant team. And this weekend, man, I'm looking forward to the project. New Vives. December 9th. December 9th, 3.

We're independent in this big. Choose volume 3. Support independent, support art, support great people, support good energy, man. And quickly, Brando is the one that actually keeps us all related, if you think about it. Brando is the-St. John, Biggs. Brando is the Master of Maverson. E.O. and St. John are all related because of Brando. behind some of the dopest merch images that we've seen in the last few years.

The best in the game. Absolutely. That's the best creative mind in the game. Absolutely. Fuck what you heard. Huge fan of Brando's. Huge fan. And suck my dick if you disagree.

I was actually happy to meet you at the Novo at the show at the Novo. And I heard so much about you from Biggs and from St. John. And then you was this cool layback. I'm like, wait, don't sit here. Like you design some of my favorite pieces that I wear every fucking day. And then I started resenting Brando because you would walk into the pie with all these St. John's sweatpants.

I'm like, I know the guy that designed it. I just can't get them for some reason. No, Brando's amazing. I know Carlos and Brenno really well. I still don't have a, I don't have no St. John shit outside of what he gave me four years ago. I have the Christian Sex Club socks. That's the only thing I have.

Probably that don't ask, but yeah. Shout out to Brando. So yeah, Zad, man, thank you for coming by kicking with us. We appreciate you, brother. And I can't wait to see y'all on stage again soon, man. Love, thank you guys for having me. I'm that nigga.

He's just ginger. Peace. No. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

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