New Rory & MAL - Episode 138 | Spoiled Beats & Next-Gen Rappers ft. Don Cannon

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

The the…the Cannon. On today’s episode we’re joined by one of the most iconic producers/music executives in the industry, Don Cannon. If you’re not familiar with DJ Cannon he helped create the sound of the mixtape era. Currently, he is the CEO of the extremely successful Generation Now and co-founder of the TmrO app. First, Cannon takes us through his early years in the studio from bumping into Kanye and playing basketball with Kobe. Eventually Cannon met DJ Drama and that’s where the mixtapes began. Cannon shares stories from the ‘Trap or Die’ sessions and eventually shares how his resurgence has led to labels requesting “Uzi type beats” or another “First Class”. The guys then all share a moment of how different the next generation of artists are than the previous ones, which leads to why Cannon chose not to go to the Gucci and Jeezy Versus. The discussion returns to today with the controversial rating from Pitchfork on Ice Spice’s EP. The debating with Dom continues as the guys run through recent comments by 50 Cent, Ludacris, the undervaluing of Dr Dre’s catalog, favorite lyrics/beat. Finally, like all good debates including Don and Mal we land on Michael vs. LeBron. The guys share their personal NBA top 5, as well as, their rapper top 5. Tune in as the guys and DJ Cannon discuss all of the above + more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

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And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. there's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they failed. Listen to eating while broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I would put anybody before Jordan then, and it wasn't a hate thing. It was just like, bro, y'all like him too much. You know what I'm saying?

That's called hate. It might be actually the exact definition of it. It might be a player-hater. Yeah, you might be a player-hater. I might be a player-hater. Yeah, don't boy. This is the official hustler's anthem. You're getting money?

Throw it in the air. Yes, who's been Zach. Still smet a blow on my clothes like crispy cream. I was cooking the moans. Like horseshoos I was tossing the moz. Time to re-up. Got a recycle to flow. I'm a most.

Welcome to a new episode of the new Rory Mall podcast. I am all. I'm Rory. And today we are joined with a friend, a good guy. One of the craziest dudes I know. One of the greatest debaters I've ever met. One of the dudes that probably made my headline received just a little bit in the past three months. We are joined by none other than Don Cannon.

Yeah, yeah. What's up? How you doing, my brother? Man, I can't complain, bro. Thank you for. Thank you for coming around that. Yeah, man, we've been talking about doing this. Yeah, we've been trying to get this conversation for a while.

Yeah. I'm glad it finally happened. You're a man of many hats, many talents. Yes, sir. record producer executive DJ You're definitely one of the greatest debate As I've ever sat in the room with I'm gonna put that out there absolutely

Wow The shit you say is like It's not so much the debate techniques It's the things you can't argue Against Yeah You give the most outlandish points ever That I can't even refute

That makes sense I don't do they though No it does It makes sense It doesn't it makes sense It makes sense But but after a while It's like, nah, he's crazy.

Like, I'm not rolling with that. But in the moment, it makes a lot of, a lot of sense. So we're glad to sit down and kick it with you today. What's up, man? How you feeling? Man, I feel good, man. Just happy to be in New York, just moving around. You know, come to see y'all.

We've been planning this for a couple weeks. I've been trying to go up here. So, you know. You're working? Yeah. In the studio? Yeah, we're up here. Seems like you're always in the studio.

I have to be. You know, I'm the music guy. I keep the artist moving, get a motivation to make the best music they can make. So, you know, you know when we first started the company are the artists in Atlanta so you know now that they're blowing up they're in different places so Uzi's up here

you know Jack made me in L.A you know set he's in Paris right now moving around so you know wherever I can be to help you know forward the progress or what's going on that's why I need to be I'm going to go As someone that's always in the studio and so much behind the actual music of these artists

does it become difficult that you hate music? No but I know when I go home. You literally don't like any rap on earth besides GZ and JZ? Nah, man. Like, we're going to dispute that. You're going to dispute that. I just want to get right to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're going to dispute that. I like a lot of rappers. But in my debates, like, we were having, it's all about music to me. Like, it's nothing about nobody personal life. You know this. We never said nothing personal. Nothing talking about. It's just your own taste.

Own taste of rap. But also, you know, as I got older, I learned that we buy into too much of the rapper instead of the music. Absolutely. Everybody want to argue, like, if I argue about Tupac, the first thing I was like, well, he was real, he shot the police. Like, bro, I don't I want to talk about the song, the beat, how we did it. When do you think that

happened? When did I think that happened? Yeah. Like, around what era did we get too involved in who the person was rather than the output of music? I think that just as a game in general, we always bought into like, you listen to like Mob Deep, the first thing we wanted to

the dude was checked to see if their background was real. Yeah. And it was a Chinese secret about a Chinese ancient secret about who's writing whose raps. So it was just like the scroll was always, you know what I mean? And it's like we thought everybody's real. Well, Jay really did that. It became a concern so much, especially with me in my later years, just being with, you

know, my wife or whatever. I was buying into like Kanye was doing all this stuff recently. And I was just like, I grew up listening to his music. So I'm hearing like the college. I'm buying too much into him being college or Jesus walks and stuff like that. And realizing he a human being, he does things based on what he wants to do. So, you know, I had to take myself out of buying into the rapper too much and just listening to the music for what it is. At what point did you realize like this is what you wanted to do forever?

Like you wanted to be involved with music, with artists, with some part of the culture in some form of fashion. Like when did it hit you? Like, you, I really, this is what I want to do. To be completely honest, it never hit me. You know what I'm saying? I was doing this since I was a young. And so it was more like brushing my teeth. I think that as you get older, you understand what you're doing.

Then you get into the space of like, oh, I really want to do this. Like, you know, I was doing stuff, but I never thought about when I was 11, 12 years old making money. I just was mimicking DJ premiere. I was rapping, trying to be Dr. Dren, Snoop. Like I really, you know what I'm saying? And then, you know, you get to high school, things start getting an umbrella for you. You know what I mean? You start getting a certain amount.

attention do you get to college and it's like oh now i got to pick a profession oh what am i going to do business management well i'm going to do architect so then you just start jumping in i'm going to be a musician you know i mean and things start to counsel out like you know obviously i wanted to play basketball i knew that basketball was over especially Kobe like when i would play at st jo's he would be over there playing at st jo's and i just watch him leave some of the games and go shoot a thousand jump shots in the gym by itself. And I was like, I was in, I remember just being in the stands watching him do it. And mind you, the city wasn't really big on him at first.

It was like all about Donnie Carr. It was all about Arthur Davis and these guys like Naim Krenshaw. So seeing that, I felt like he was trying to outwork everybody and just seeing him in that gym shooting him thousand shots and I'll pull up the school every day and he'll be out there. I'm like watching it. Like, man, I don't got that. You know what I mean? What do you think it changed?

This is actually the third. This is the three-year anniversary. I think Kobe's passing, too. Oh, thank you. Today's a three- anniversary, yeah. To the mama. What's the thing? What did that change in Philly?

Just like the energy around Kobe as a high schooler? I think in the last year of high school, which was like 96, but throughout since Sunny Hill League, since the youngest, I played in there since I was like probably 10, 11. And I think that him being not. not as big as those other players, they were focused on the city league players. So, you know, he was on the outside of the city league, but he was terrorizing. But people then respect it because we don't respect that coming to the city, especially when they being up.

Yeah, you look at some old Kobe interviews and they asked him some real questions, like, who was the best offender? He could have said anybody, he could have said, uh, McGready. He could have said, he said Donnie Carr, which is high school. So it was like, you know what I'm saying? It was like, why you say that? Yeah. That was the trying time for him.

Yeah. where he was trying to get through. But I think like when we start seeing him in the top 10 All-American and doing those things, it was just like, okay, Kobe. But again, Philly's a tough city. Everybody's like, I'm the man. You know what I mean? So I think that he got to a space where when he was in that All-American game and was doing like all that,

it was like, okay, now we see what's going on. And then you knew he was like, no, I'm not, I'm going to put this basketball down. I'm not fucking around. I've been put it down. I think one of my last games was the college league. I came home for the summer from college, and they were short one player, so I had to play in the game. And I'm in the college league. Yeah, bro.

There's people from Temple. These guys balling. I'm in the game. I can't guard nobody. You know what I mean? So I'm like, bro, stop, bro. And I went to the Clark team. I can't, you know, it was just none of that.

Did you ever run into Kobe, like, later on? Because obviously Kobe was into hip hop, too. And you guys at that point was coming up at the same time, one in hip hop, one in the NBA. Yeah, I did. one time in a summer, there was a summer league in Vegas. I think I was DJing out there. And this is when I used to be heavy in the stores in Caesar Palace. And I wound up running into him.

And I was like, yo. Yeah. And he was like, yo. I was like, what's up? He was like, yeah, man. He's like, you're doing your thing, man. Keep doing your thing. I was like, oh, okay.

I didn't think, you know, he was so tunnel vision. For sure. You know, so I did see him. You bring up that you thought maybe you were a better defender and he should have brought you up? I should have. I should have. Like, you remember when I? Yeah, he was like, yeah, for sure I got you.

Yeah, I finished at the rim. Yeah, but that was the only time. We never exchanged any numbers and nothing like that. It was just, you know, he was in passing. Yeah, he was chilling. I think that was like almost one of the first times where they was doing the Summer League in Vegas. Yeah.

Yeah. So you put the basketball down and you focus more on your music and wanting to get into music. At what point did it become like, okay, I got a lock in on this. want to either DJ, I want to, you know, get with an artist and produced. Like, how do you, how do you make that decision? Is it just something you just like let just happen and fall into your lap? I think the universe made it fall in my lap, honestly.

When I was doing parties that, you know, I started out in a dorm, right? And Clark, and they had a basketball gym outside, outside court. And I used to put the speaker in the window and just played. jams for the game waiting for my time to play a game. So when it was time for me to call, they'd be like, oh, and then I'd come down playing the game. But if I lost, I had to wait six games or whatever, I'd jump back up. The dorm room right beside it was the women's dorm, and they used to sit out, you know what I mean, out there. So I would just be playing jams and sometimes I was sneaking a beat to see if they was messing with it during the game. You know what

I mean? It was just stuff I was doing in a dorm room that led to some of the biggest promoters. They always came to the school because it was four schools. Right. And, you know, they was like, yo, we heard you DJ. We're like, you should come do chili pepper. You should come do, you know, ESOs, you know, the early part opened up for some. And I started doing these clubs and I started getting recognized. They was coming to the cafeteria.

I was DJing the cafeteria. I started all the cafeteria fights, by the way. Okay. Tare the club up. Natural. I let everybody eat. I play Tared a club up. Dessert time.

It's over. Yeah. It's over. So. Was it like a bit of a cold? A cultural shock coming up from Philly down to Atlanta and even having a DJ too. Like trying to maneuver through parties like I only know Northeast shit at that time. Yeah, it was definitely a culture shop because when I came down there, I'm walking through the campus and you're seeing people coming through and old schools and stuff and they're hanging out the window and they're staring at you. And Philly, that meant it was going down.

Yeah. I mean, there it was like almost like, you know, just love. They were showing love. So once I learned to like get over some of the. stuff was going on, like even the southern comfort of people saying, yo, what's up? I'm like, what's up? What you mean?

Yeah, it was different. Like, I'd never been nowhere where I connected with people just based on walking down the street and people like, yo, what you do? You cool? Oh, let's exchange math or whatever. Like, in Philly, that don't happen. You walk in the store, you got to tell them what you want. It's like, how can I help you all the time?

You know what I'm saying? So it was definitely a culture shock, especially with the music because I got down there and it was like, bro, listen, we got a different vibe. You know what I'm saying down here? Like when I first got down there, I thought it was going to be booty shape. When I got down there, it was Master P and Pastor P. You know what I mean? So that was like, No More Playing GA was like one of the first things.

I'm like, damn, it's crazy down here. You know what I mean? I thought it was going to be time after time and ghost town DJ. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I ain't really, you know, I really stunned it too much, but I learned, you know, and adapted to their sound, you know? So you met Drum.

Yep. And then y'all decided that, all right, we're really going to do this music thing. Because obviously y'all are close friends, family. Yep. And the imprint and the impact that you have on the game now, the artists that y'all are working with now. Let's go to the beginning. The first artist where you was like, all right, this is like a real deal. This is taking off.

Like, we really about to make some noise in this game. Who was the first artist for you where you knew like, all right, we really about to be respecting on a different level now? for the company standpoint or for the company aspect or the mixed tape. Mixedate. So I went to school with Willie the kid. I don't know if you know, right? I went to school Willie the kid and his kid named Detroit Red. And those are the first guys I was working with after, you know, a couple dorm room stints with my freshman class.

But they were the first people. I felt like I couldn't explain what it was. but it's what the future now calls Jay Cole or they call Kendra Lamar. That's what I saw in them guys. Okay. It was just so far, it was so far deep into hip hop.

I don't think a lot of people understood. And where I was carrying, it was like there was a little bit of underground and commercial in it. Like it still felt like it didn't feel too underground. You know what I'm saying? What was commercial at that song? What was commercial like 99?

What was I playing the club? Maybe wait a minute, Ray J, uh, okay, you know, jump off. Yeah. Um, you know, all that stuff. I think loud was coming towards them, but they still have records out. Um, yeah, those type of joints. You're just playing a lot of, you know, and, you know, being there, we had these parties called the Lake Tex party. It was like Louisiana, Texas.

And it was versus New York. The New York had the other room was tri-state actually. So we were like honorable mention for Philly to be in a tri-state at that time. And like, you know, the song selection was so different for us because we'd be playing Benjamin's and all that. Yeah. And the Louisiana, Texas people would not come past the threshold to listen to any of that. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah. We would go over there because I'm like trying to hear the bounce. Like, oh, they're playing like, you know, break it off. Yeah. You know, stuff like that. So I'm just, it was a different space. So bringing them up, it was just hard to break them in no spaces. So I just kept an underground.

We did tapes. moved around, which led to us them doing, you know, doing some songs on the mixtapes, me and Dron were doing, which led the generation now in like 2003 where we had like Jay Mills, Kanye and them guys on it. So they were the initial first artist that I was rocking with. It wasn't something part of what me and Drom built and Trinsetter built with the affiliates, but it was basically like Canon music. He got his own little thing going, you know what I mean?

And, you know, after a while, they just, you know, they was like, yo, I like Will he dope. And then we moved into that. But that was our first artist. Okay. Yeah. Was there a natural progression in the duo with you in drama as far as like, all right, drama, you're going to be the more the face talking on mixtapes being the brand more or less. Does your personality naturally just want you to just kind of play the background on the producer, DJ type role?

Not naturally because. I was a little, I was popular. You know what I mean? Because I was doing these clubs. Like, I always tell the stories about how I did. Like, I was doing Shaq's parties. I was doing, I was DJing Whitney Houston birthday party. Wow.

And, you know, A.G., you know, Alice Giddywine was, like, the biggest promoter. And he had a guy named Biddy, which was Cloud 9. And me being the youngest in charge, I got a chance to do all those parties. Like, any big party, right? I was doing them. Like, even if it was opening up, it was times where. they had club visions where you hear about the notorious BMF parties. My next question.

And I was doing so many of the parties, and they had a room called the glass room, which really made, I really made my name on another level. It was like the glass room was off to the left, and it was people just wanted to chill and just be away from the main crowd. And I would just be in my bag, just playing like, you know, B-side cuts, just joints. Like, you know what I'm saying? And being in that room, people started coming and check like, oh, yeah, we want to be in the room.

Then that room started getting too crowded. You know what I'm saying? And then they started like, yo, you're killing the glass room. We want to put you on the main room and do this. Sometimes I closed on the main room. Sometimes I didn't. So, yeah. Gotcha.

Well, I mean, speaking of BMF, I was going to bring that up since you were talking about parties in Atlanta at that time. What was club culture like? Because obviously, this BMF show, I mean, if you're into hip hop, you already knew about BMF to some degree. but I think the Star Show has definitely put them in a different light. Yeah, you was there. And I feel like it's a bunch of people now you'll just see an interview.

He was like, yeah, I was in Atlanta one weekend. And now they're telling the BMF story on some of these YouTube platforms. I'm like, all right, so he went to one party. And he's telling the whole big meet story. This is weird. What was Atlanta really like with parties club, everything BMF related party-wise? It was incredible because it was love. Like, we get so much flack in Atlanta about what,

B.MF was, but what I remember it was, it was love. Like, when I met Meach, he was always shown love. You know, I love what you're doing, bro. I love everything that's going on. A lot of the team, a lot of people was there. They was coming to the clubs. It was just, everybody got a bottle. If I was DJing, I didn't expect to get a Moet bottle. Right. I was killing the party. Right. I was going crazy. And I was young. So it was like that type of, that type of thing, they just came to the parties. And it was just like, they was there. And it was just, It was fun, bro. It was fun.

A lot of superstars came down there to come to those parties, and it was just dope. I never got a chance. There was always the notorious party that they had, like, the live animals and stuff like that. I didn't get to do those parties because I think that they had their own DJ or whatever. But, like, anything that had to do with, like, visions or those clubs where they came to, I was killing it. And, you know, I was trying to make a name. So I was just trying to go as hard as I could with the music just to get people hype. And I just remember them just being always showing love like, yo, dog, you dope.

I mean, if you look in this documentary now, I'm sure they've been passing around. Like, they got a little clip of me DJing up there. I don't know if I was like opening up or closing. But yeah, it was just, it was fired. And that era was great. What was the mixtape connection like with those parties? And I mean, obviously GZ was bubbling at that time with a connection to BMF. How were mixtapes tied in to those parties?

We should actually be broke from mixtapes at parties in Atlanta at that time? Or is it still like, if it's not mainstream, it's not going to be played at a club, unless it's GZ with Meach. If I had to go there, I would say that, man, well, at that time, drama wasn't really doing clubs. Yeah. He was just, he was torn, he was on mixtapes. I was in the club.

Trent Seder, our other partner, he was in a club. I was playing stuff off the mixtape because I knew they knew it. Yeah. Okay. I knew the crowd knew, like, I could play something off of T.I. Down with the King or Trapper died because they knew it. You know what I'm saying? So I would do that like and that would be like that one and be like, oh, like I stopped the crowd and just play, I'm back.

Mr. Magic City. And then the whole crowd would be like, I can't believe he played this. That's how I made my name. Okay. Breaking those records, running it back like, ho, ho, ho, ho. You know where y'all at right now? You're out of the house. And I'm playing that joint, you know what I mean?

So I think I was one of the people that did started that with the mixtape part, you know. Is that how so just the whole cheesy situation? because you did some of my favorite joints on the album, circulate, go crazy. That relationship from being in the club, is that how that was able to happen for you to produce those records? No, actually, when I stayed in, I was staying in a dorm and I got kicked out of school,

but people loved me so much, they thought I was in schools. I actually had a room. Okay. I had one of the joints for like a half a semester, and then I got kicked out the second semester. He used to ride by. and come see some people's up there at the dorm. And a couple times he just was like, he heard, you know,

I had some beats or whatever. He saw him, it's like, yo, I want some beats, that, but it never happened. And I think a couple of times after that, Coach Kay came around and was working with me and Dron. He was like one of our early, like, motivators going with the mixtapes because he would help us, you know, get the artists that we need sometimes. He had a group called Jadis.

and we were just, you know, we were working with him. He was close. I think he might have managed this for a short time. Or just helped us, you know. And he brought it to John Lai, yo, got the street cat. He dope, bro. And that's how it happened. We met him before that.

But then going to the club and we just had that synergy, I just continued to play those records and kind of built them up through, you know, the club. Yeah. Do you remember any of like the TM 101 session? or the trap or die sessions with GZ? Yeah, I remember all of them. Yeah, so I'll tell you.

Any more to stick out? I'll tell you, Streets is watching was the first joint that was in my apartment. I used to live in Cheshire Bridge. He came through and did, you know, to join an apartment. Second one was Trapper Die, which was also we did our part in my apartment. You know what I mean? He came through, listen to it. And I just know, he started to gain my trust in,

basically me helping certain pieces that his engineering didn't do. Like there were some parts where they left some breaths in some certain spots. I would take some breaths out or just add. Like I was all about intricate little pieces. You know what I'm saying? So I think he saw that and then we just bonded. I always tell the story about how go crazy happened. It was on TI's mixtape first as a freestyle.

And at GZ's party, I played it at the end. When the lights came on, I played like. eight, nine times and he stepped to me like, yo, what's up with that beat? I was like, you can have it. T.R. just freest out on it. And that was the start of the relationship, really. He started saying, yo, come through patchwork, you know what I mean?

Come check me out. And I used to just go pop up, pop up. You know, my path was a little interesting because everybody was using an MPC at the time. And anybody out there is watching and knowing that the MPC locked up with Pro Tools so well. But I used the ASR and it would not lock up. So I'd be in there, you know, looking like,

like the amateur trying to get stuff to lock up with the engineer. And it, you know, when I talked about it, it was based on what that machine did. But now that I look at it, it was like that enabled me to stay there longer because the process was longer. So I was able to be a part of other things that was going on. Yeah. Oh, let me add to that beat or let me help you with this, you know, whatever it was. So now that I look at it, it was like, oh, that was supposed to happen for me to be

around longer, you know, in a session. And not to get too nerdy with the ASR. at that time with Atlanta music, I feel like, was unheard of. Outside of, like, dungeon family stuff. Yeah, I mean, it was an ASR. Yeah, I mean, it was an ASR and the NPC. They would lock it up so it could, you know, be what it is. But I didn't have that ability.

I didn't have an NPC. That's so interesting, though, like, just that part of the story, like, because you're using a machine, it causes you to be in the studio longer, stay around longer, and now it falls into other songs and producing and things like that. Yep. The game now where it's at today, how much of your journey do you remember from the beginning where you see young cats now in the game and you like, everything happens for a reason, take your time, slow down. Like, it's all part of it because a lot of dudes these days, everybody's in a rush to blow and have their wreck it out and things like that. But things like that is what makes the journey on the back end worth it.

Like 1,000%. Using the ASR. You know, now I got to be here longer because it doesn't line. up with the pro tools. But now, for me being here, we fall into another record. A lot of cats these days, everybody's in a hurry. Everybody want to get their song streaming. Everybody want to be on tour.

And it's like, bro, you just laid your first record last night. Right. Slow down. So the generation now, because I do think that, you know, the younger cats, they have things that we didn't really have as far as, like, technology and social media. It's different ways to access people all around the world, which I think is a great thing. if you utilize it the right way. But how much would you tell the younger guys

to be patient and just relax and take your time with the craft because there is a beauty in, you know, taking your time with your skill instead of trying to hurry up and just become the next big thing? It's a 50-50 for me because, you know,

now that I've been speaking a little bit more about we being on borrowed time, I would like to people I would like for people to dedicate their self fully into their craft while they have the time. And taking the time is almost a bad word sometimes because we look up and so much stuff is happening now. People are getting killed. People are dying natural death. People are going away.

People are losing things. So I want them to be as precious with their craft as possible. And that's how I explain time. But I really want people not to rush, but just know that, hey, man. man, focus. Some people focus on everything else and miss the mark. And then time happens. You know what I'm saying?

So I want people to actually just dedicate most of the time. For me going up, I had some issues with people telling me I weren't going to make it. When I was in high school, they were like, yeah, man, go to the Army. You know what I mean? You ain't going to be, no. You're going to be dead in jail. And that's like when I hear other rappers say that from the 90s, like I relate. People think it's a myth.

Like we literally go to school and our counselors and teachers was like, college. Right. You're going to college? Right. Musician. Right. Stop it. Right.

What's a dream? Even our parents and our family members, what's a dream? You know, go get a job. You see what I'm saying? And I feel like I had a problem with that. So I will stay focused on my goal 24-7. And people were like, yo, let's go to movies. Let's go drink.

Let's go hang out. No, I wanted to focus. I was just always focused. I never had time to do none of the extras when I was doing it. So I feel like some of the youngans need to do that. I was talking about being in Philly and I spoke to his young and he was 17. He was like, yo, everybody telling me, I got enough time, relax and all that. And I just told him, bro, you don't.

You don't borrow time right now. And I'm in a race against time. I'm trying to create as much history and as much family engagement. as I can, you know, before, you know, time is up. How have those conversations gone with, I mean, because again, with the GZs, TIs, you guys were all around the same age, you were coming up, growing up together, more or less, in your 20s? Yep.

How have those conversations been with Uzi and Jack as far as time, or just anyone on Generation now in this era? With Uzi, he always fights against Tom. If you know, he's doing, I always mentioned, he's doing 700 songs a year or an 18 months. Yeah. However you want to put it, I'll give you a gauge. I may be exaggerating saying 12 months, I may say 18 months, right? Yeah.

To see in my computer, I have 560 songs new and probably 700 old songs. Yeah. You know, to the scammers and fans out there, hey man, don't try hack my shit. Yeah, they'll try. But just for, you know, general purposes, that right there lets me know that he's he knows what time it is. You know what I'm saying? He knows what time it is.

Jack is a little bit more methodical. He thinks about everything. Everything's strategic. He does certain things. He has stuff on his hard drive that he doesn't bounce. I will not get a copy of. And, you know, some of them. So I see two sides of it with them.

I see one person that's like rapidly doing stuff, but very strategic. And then, you know, I see another guy that takes his time. I'm very strategic and, you know, and does this things, you know, in a great space. Do you think that comes from them just being different culturally? I feel like it could be that, but I also feel like there's different goal thought process. You know what I'm saying? Like Uzi will go black for a year and just work or just not drop for two years because he's trying to work on things. He's going through.

He wants to touch each piece. So, like, he may go through a goth stage. He may go through a rock stage. He may go through a real rap stage. These stages are building him as an artist. So you have to have a, you know, you can't put a timeline on it. Right. That's a time limit, you know what I mean?

Well, even to Maul's question there, like, two drastically different artists, but two great representations of new hip-hop in a completely different way. Yeah. where does that ear even fall that you could see a young oozy and be like that makes sense now and see Jack and say that makes sense now? Because I think a lot of labels for the most part have artists that are very similar in sound and it works because that's where their brain works. Like we're going to get a bunch of Uisies or do our best to.

Or we're going to get a bunch of jacks and do our best to do that. Where's the separation with Generation Now that you could have two totally different artists? Yeah, well, we really jumped into the name of Generation Now, really. That's first and foremost. Second and foremost, I'm really a person of not duplicating the same thing over and over again. And once we make a big enough stamp with this, it's time to move on and make it in this area. Because talent comes in different phases and different types of people. So I wouldn't dare sign another Uzi.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't dare sign another setty or Sunny Digital. Those guys are one-on-ones. We do see in the business where I get emails all the time. I was like, hey, we're looking for a song like money longer. We're looking for a song like, you know, first class. You know how many emails I get about that today. It's like, you know, can we get a first class?

Like, bro. You know what I'm saying? Sure. Let's go cook up one right now. Do you think a lot of that comes from in your early years, moving from Philly to Atlanta? So you just have a broader ear than I think most people? 1,000%.

Because, you know, it took me later in my life to even know you and drama was from Philly. Yeah. And I don't mean that in a way, like, I just assume, You can tell by so much of the Atlanta. You couldn't tell about the cuts? In retrospect now, yes. Yeah, yeah. But I just assumed, you know, it was all the music that was coming out of Atlanta.

I just assumed that. Yeah. And then to find out y'all was from Philly, I was like, that makes them even doper to be able to move to a city like Atlanta and move around and find that talent and develop that talent to the way that you have. Yeah, it's interesting. You mentioned that because now that I look at it, yeah, us being from somewhere else, it gives us different point of views like, okay, we could do this

and then change and do this. Yeah. So that's interesting that you mentioned. And being from Philly, y'all pay attention to more lyrical shit. Yeah. Yeah. Spitters.

Yes. And then moving to the South, it's more soul. It's the bass. It's that even the sound systems and the cars are different in the South. Well, that's one point about the actual label and self.

Everybody that we've picked up have a music background to where they really know how to rap. Each and every one of them that we sign, that's the basis. Like, Uzi came from rap. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And he still shows it. Every now and that, he'll show you he can still rap. Yeah, they tell the story about how he was in ciphers and, you know, somebody called him, yo, you rap like a Uzi. That came from a cipher. Yeah. So that's a rap. So he understands that, you know, Jack comes from that.

He started 13, 12 years old being a rapper. You know what I'm saying? So I think that's the, that's what this is. That's the foundation. You know what I mean? And then we move into whatever stardom comes from that. You know what I mean? But yeah, that's an interesting point.

But they all come from rap. And I think we noticed that from being northern. And we're like, yo, you have to have that. You have to have that in order to be anything. So I think that's what we look for first. Can they rap? Yeah. Has the approach been different personality-wise?

Just dealing with them. I'm kind of into the conversation of time and change and dealing with younger people. These kids are a little bit, I don't know if it's something in the food. I don't know if it's a fentanyl. This kids is fucking crazy. It's just definitely. Like, I don't know, I don't really know what it. It could be the steroids and the chicken.

I have no idea of playing Pop-Bah's chicken family. But myself included, I am one of those kids that is just a little off here and there. What's that been like? Because again, going from Atlanta dealing with, I think those personalities were erratic but predictable to some degree. You kind of knew how maybe a GZ or someone like GZ would react to certain conversations, how you would move with him. these kids I feel like no matter what is a shot in the dark of how they're going to react to anything what's that been like with even Ouzi we don't I don't know him personally but yeah going off what he's even put out there um I can say this I can say that creatives have are a constant

thinking mind yeah you know what I mean so they're always looking to evolve you're never going stay in the same spot so there's always going to be this outlandish feel from somebody older like me. It's like, why did you do that? Yeah. Like, you know, I was one of the first people when, uh, just take Uzi for instance, when he tatted his face, I was like, bro, you're never going to be on Jimmy Fallon. What are you talking about? You just looked at me like, bro, what you talking about? Yeah. I said, bro, do not tat your forehead. You know what I'm saying? Meanwhile, that helps to get on Fallon now. Yeah. Bro. You know, 50, 50 tats later, it's like,

you know what I mean? So, uh, that was something I had to get over and didn't understand. I understand most of it, but some of the stuff was like, hey, we're building. What are you doing? Yeah. So you start to see where artists just keep changing, involved. And we could all say, hey, all these artists are crazy. We can say that. But again, it's the creative thinking mind that allows them to move like that. And if we don't allow them to move through that, we don't get the best possible artists we can get. Did it make you uncomfortable when everything now is on front street? Like, I mean, I know. you guys and Uzi are great now,

but there's been tweets and like shit that was put out and like we see it with Siza and Punch and it's just become the business. You put all your business on Front Street. Emotions. Like the things that maybe you and Drama would have kept internal throughout the years, people would never know.

Now it's like, it's not a rollout per se, but it's part of being on these sublabel and labels where it's like, well, let's tweet about the owners. Yeah, I mean, I have one goal in my. mind. And it's funny that this is coming up. My reputation had been that I was keeping a piece for so much with artists, even inside or outside the label. And that's not the case. My thing is, I'm so in tune with what the actual business of things could be that I'm focused on no nonsense. I don't want to talk about nothing. I want to do my end result on whatever, how I'm

move is to get this to be a $400 million company. Because that's the business of it. You know what I mean? We're getting the history. But anything we're doing, I'm trying to get to the best possible history and valuation of the company. And when you get involved with the nonsense of it, of course, you would have something doubt on your mind on a back burner that your reputation as a company could go bad

or your reputation as a person could go bad. But I feel like when you get to a certain space, you're like, hey, I'm not willing to sacrifice this building that we're on this. We built to a 76th floor, get teared down by what's going on or floating in the industry or on Twitter. So when I look at it, it's like, hey, to react would be like my first reaction because it's like my pride is telling me, man, you're not going to put it. me out like that but my thought process

like, hey man, I built a great business. What am I even trying to like accomplish here by going back and forth with anybody? I'm just trying to get to the next level. That's all I'm concerned with. I'm not concerned with any rhetoric. We were talking about rap early and we were talking about, yo,

this person did this in a personal. I don't care. Me and him argue we argue about Michael Jordan and not once did we talk about no, no, no, no. He's pointing. He's I can feel him shaking right now. His entire body is shaking.

I'm cool today. I'm a different man. Us three, we built a great relationship like that. And, you know, we know how to stay in a space. But what I'm getting at is with Michael Jordan in our conversations, we never once went into what Mike was as a person. We kept basketball. Or whatever he thought basketball terms. So I don't want to ever get in Twitter and be like, well, this person's acting.

up. Yeah. I'll get to the point of where I got to defend myself. Like, I'm not going to go to breakfast club and do a, yo, this would really happen interview. Like me coming here and was a brotherhood thing for me. Like, even us talking about hanging out in the city, it's different from me coming up here and trying to defend that you guys say, I only like two artists.

You know what I'm going to get to? That's not me. That's not what I'm here for. But I think it's changed too. with not only age, but you went from being the artist, producer, DJ, yeah, face of that movement. Now you are the leader, elder, and label owner. Yeah.

Where even if you want to go back, let's say one of your artist goes on Twitter and just kills your character, everything, it's not your job to defend your character. It's to defend your company, which includes defending that person that's now talking shit about you because they are on your label. It becomes completely different. And that's why I guess it is weird sometimes when the heads of labels will go on and do interviews to defend them.

I'm like, you're not an artist. You're not even protecting your brand. You're actually now discrediting part of your brand, which is your artist. How does that conversation with Uzi go after that? I'm going to get into that. It's sniping your stocks. Yeah.

It's like, I'm just going to mess my stock game up. Yeah, other artists, I'm like, yo, I'm not going over there. It's a little crazy. Yo. That hurts. What was crazy. Did you guys see? the clip that leaked quote unquote of SZA backstage at SNL.

I didn't. She was, I think in between rehearsals and one of the green rooms and was arguing like, listen, I did my part. I gave you guys the masters, the artwork, everything is done. I'm not waiting anymore. I don't care about holiday. We already had this conversation. This album is coming out.

And, you know, just naturally with Siza fans, they all go and kill Punch because that's just been like the Twitter thing. And Punch, I think, replied and don't quote me. He's like, I put that clip out. Right. I want you to see that. I'm here for Siza. Her maybe shitting on me or me looking nuts or whatever does not matter.

My brand is her. Like TDE is Siza. As long as Siza looks good and Siza is happy and Siza makes great music, that's all that matters. You get real narcissistic when it's like, well, let me go defend Punch. It's like, no, my job is to make sure Sizzah gets this out the best way possible. I'm about to go take a masterclass with Punch. I'm about to take a master class with you, man. Oh, punch when it comes to that Twitter world.

in politics. He plays that Cizzer game. He'd be playing those fans like, you're a piece of shit. He's like, I know. I did this purpose. I made myself the bad guy, so Cizzer never has to be the bad guy.

Wow, that's a great way to put it. Punch is a genius when it's come to the Cizzer Rolls. That's what I'm met with it. I mean, you know, anything for our company, our history to grow, man, we put too much stuff in here. And again, you're always going to have family moments.

Yeah. Never it is. You're always going to have family moments. It's a weird family if it doesn't happen. Yeah. So, like, if everything is, is like itty gritty. And like, hey, yeah.

But you're going to have those moments. But I'm happy that we have them. You know, I'm happy that we can fight through them. For a long time, again, I would suppress things because I would play like the Spider-Man and try to figure out, oh, I can keep this here and I can make this work to protect this. And now it's just kind of like, man, I'm 43 years old. I'm able to speak my mind within taste and just keep, you know what I'm saying?

And do what I want. It feels better. I used to didn't want to feel. anything. I didn't want to feel any pain. I don't want to feel somebody getting bent out of shape about what I'm saying or how I'm moving. I'm not bent out of shape no more because I'm pure and what I'm trying to do. It has nothing to do. Even if it was a tool was used that might not fit what you thought I was as a person, I used it for the better being. So that's what I'm on. Yeah. And suppressing all that gets you more out of shape. I feel like. You're trying to hide this,

protect this. Like that makes you feel worse, I feel like. I saw an interview. with Rick Rubin on 60 Minutes and he said something on there that like I really had to stop. I was like, that's it. He said, I don't, I'm not a music guy. I don't know how to play instruments. I don't know anything about any of this equipment. He said, I just have

supreme confidence in my taste. Yeah. And I'm like, damn, like when I have supreme confidence in my taste and I don't like something, I'm a hater. Yeah. But if Rick Rubin doesn't like something, it's like he's this guru. It's like, okay. We got to go fix it.

Did you, record it's not good? Did you see the meme that was going around after that? No. I see y'all posting that Rick Rubin clip. That taste thing doesn't apply to you. Yeah. But that's the real thing, though. As an A&R, right, you know when something feels good.

You could tell what the climate is in the culture. You could tell, you know, you was DJ in the clubs. You know how people are feeling what type of frequency they react to. So you know when you hear something is like, oh, yeah, that's it. Yeah. So that is a thing. Like, taste and being able to. to identify what's good.

Yep. That is a real thing. So when Rick Rubin said it, I was like, damn, that's so profound. Like to just put it like that. Like, I don't, I'm not, I don't know about any of this equipment stuff. Right, right. But I know when something feels good, when it sounds good, and it's like, this is it. Yeah, most importantly, what I took from that too was, again, going back to our conversation

about the creative mind and how it floats. A lot of the creatives may sit on 200 songs and not put something out. somebody has to know how to pull the trigger. You know what I mean? So what I took from it was like, hey, in those situations, I'm the person that says, hey, we can pull the trigger on this music. You know, you're floating, you don't know what's going on. You want to play it.

Now you want to change you. I'm the one with the taste that says, hey, let's pull the trigger. Let's get this song out. And I respect him even saying that because for many years, again, a lot of us that are behind the scenes don't get our story told. You know what I mean? You guys were behind the scenes for a very long time. I was behind the scenes.

We don't get a chance to tell our story. So the first thing we think of Rick Rubin through history is that, one, he was a producer. Right. You know what I mean? Two, he was this great mogul. And he's telling you, hey, all the stuff y'all think about me, I'm not that. I'm the person with the taste. I'm the person with, I know how to make a decision.

Right. Us in the music business are undecided a lot of times. We don't know what's going. Overthinkers. Yeah. And he's the one. And we need those. I wish a couple more people was like, hey, man, yeah, look, I really don't make no beats.

Yeah. I mean, I lied to you. I really don't make no beats. That was so real to hear that. Yeah. Were you at the GZ and Gucci versus? No, I was not. Why?

I watched it from the deer. Smart man. Yeah. As someone that was not only lived that era was a prominent figure in Atlanta at that time. Yeah. What was it like? For one, I was going through a little bit. on a personal level, trying to figure out where the world was healthy.

You know what I mean? And it wasn't that I believe so much in COVID or anything like that. I just felt like at the time, it wasn't healthy to be around a lot of people. You know, I wouldn't say I'm a germaphobe, but I'm definitely in a space where I always had hand sanitizer before this even happened. I always watched my hand when somebody shook my hand. It's just, I was always, I had this phobia being sick, man. So I just, that was number one. Number two.

I felt the same way with Locke's dipset and I regret it. Oh, what? Oh, you were there? Everybody got sick? It was like right at that peak COVID, but people were starting to go outside. I was like, no, that's too many people right now. And I should have just done that shit. Yeah.

I mean, that would have been a fun one. I mean, the GZ Gucci, too, was still, the energy around is still. felt a little warm. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It just felt like it was hot. It wasn't warm. Yeah.

We felt that shit watching it. I was like, I don't know if we're going, somebody might go down. Yeah. Yeah. So, and then, you know, I have this thing where I like to call it before it happens. It's like, hey, I'm going to stay home, man. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

And again, I spent many of my times just in bad positions and, you know, and dodged a lot of BS. So I've learned for those, I learned from those mistakes. mistakes but not that I felt I wanted to say on the record like oh it's going to go down the night yeah that's not where I was at I was basically like number one stay healthy to watch it from afar and enjoy it and I felt like if I was there I probably wouldn't enjoy it too entrenched in the hell yeah yeah I was there I probably was watching surroundings comfortable yeah it was just a lot of things that um I cherish by watching it at the house

you know what I mean I was there I heard songs that I was involved in where I was around, you know what I mean? Yeah. It also gave me a great appreciation. I was. I was. I was. Play this one.

Well, I'll give you a cheat. You was texting a DJ? No, but beforehand, me and JZ always had these strategy conversations. We call every once in a while. And we just had one. He's doing a symphony that's going to be fire. We just talked about how he could make the show better moving forward. He's just a student.

You know what I mean? So before the verses came out, I plucked out some songs that I felt like he should have done. Okay. And we put them in the pot. I think he reached out the drama as well. But, you know, when it comes to that, we really confiding each other about the next step when he's doing these shows, what he should perform, how he should perform it, do we think

we should do this. And we had that type of relationship. So I think that we picked those songs. And, you know, he's in a different space. And it took a lot as a man. and an artist to not turn into that dude that he very well could be being mad on what somebody's going to say. He anticipated it. He knew it was coming. He knew that some of the stuff that they were dissing each other about was pivotalable. And that's where everybody wanted to hear.

So he had to deal with it. But I felt like he handled it right and his showmanship showed through it. What I learned through it was I never really got into Gucci's catalog because I was so caught into GZ, Tip and all that. And later in my years, first and foremost, in the club, you can't deny not playing Gucci Man. He had some smacks. You know what I'm saying? He had some smacks.

But I wasn't really like, I didn't pick up a tape and just, you know, listen. But all the young ins around me was all Gucci. You know what I mean? So I learned from that. But watching that, it made me realize, like, dude is really one of those guys from the South that needs to be respect. It, you know. One of the best A&Rs ever, too.

Yeah. And that's what I got from that. And that's why I wanted to watch it. I didn't want to be there and be in the battle. Yeah. I wanted to watch it like, oh, crazy. I love how he did that. I love the way him and Zaytovin had so many hits together.

That allowed me to feel better about that, but still didn't want to be there. I like the fact that a while later he did an interview. I think it was with Elliot. It might have been Rap Radar. when Gucci sat down and he he spoke about when he brought up the whole, you know, the thing with Gigi's homeboy dying in the midst of their feud and their beef. And he said, you know, he regretted doing that. Yeah. Like he was like, you know, looking back, he was like, you know, it was just unnecessary and I shouldn't have did it.

Like to me, that was dope to hear Gucci say that. Yeah. Like, you know, after, you know, because in the battle, it's a battle. Yep. But at the end of it, it's like, you know, we all black men, we all have a certain respect for each other. being from the same city, I'm sure, that, you know, even though it was a feud and it was bump of heads, as grown men now, Paul, now that was crazy. As grown men, though, like, you know, years later, it's like we're married, we have children.

Yep. It's like, yes, it was a battle, but that part was unnecessary. Yeah, well, most people don't talk about, too, is when you have time alone by yourself, it's the most honest you could be with yourself. And when you're by yourself, you start saying, man, that beef right there stopped me from making this much money. I'm this great of an R. I stopped myself from making history. Like, for as many artists that Gucci Man put on, I feel like if he was able to do that from the beginning,

Holmes would have been very well in the talks of, you know, some of the people that made bigger companies. And it still is, by the way. But the babies and the people that made these huge empires, I feel like at some point, he probably was like, man, I wasn't able to see a lot of that based on what was going on. I feel like, you know, he was a trinsetter in a bunch of spots, bro. The chains, the Barr Simpson chain, like, bro, did his thing. But I feel like going through those trials and tribulations helped him get to this moment. sure. But if he was like, oh, if he sat back and that didn't happen, we'd be in that

he'd be in that combo for sure, for sure. You know what I mean? I think he's still fighting for that space, but we all know now he's the guy. Oh, yeah. He's on the Supreme T's got the biggest Supreme T. I mean, I don't know what pitchfork thinks of them, but. Well, pitchfork is an interesting platform. They put out something, was it last two days ago?

It was a few days ago. Ice Spice. Ice Spice. Shout out the Ice Spice again. Anybody from the Bronx, I'm rooting for him. So shout out the Ice Spice. Her EP was projected to do 15,000, I think, something like that, 15K, which to me is a one for her. This is very short, 13 minutes, six songs, two of the songs, I think we already, two or three

of the records we already heard. Wait, wait, wait, the whole thing is 13 minutes? It's a little EP. It's a little EP, six tracks, 13 minutes. How do you feel about that? 15K first week. It's the future, man. I, sheesh.

I mean, you know. 13 minutes? Yeah. I mean, if you look at it, songs. Songs right now rarely go past two minutes and 30 seconds. That on top of it being a Pee. Probably average of two minutes and 10 seconds each song. Wow.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it's 13 minutes flat. That means that the six and span of the youngans is like. Of course. I mean. Yeah. Yikes.

Streaming era shit has to be around too many. These niggas is on fit and all. They falling in sleep, man. These niggas is on fit and all. They doped up. They popping pills Smoking How much shit are you on, sir?

What are you trying to do to your body? You want to go to sleep or wake up? Longest record on it is two minutes, 39 seconds And that's, you know, obviously a big Mario Wyens sample. So that carried a lot of it. And then you have a little TJ feature. But other than that, the shit is like a minute 46,

two minutes. Nothing goes past that. I guess averse and two hooks. Get out of it. That's it. Get out of it. But, I mean, according to pitch for it, same as Mr. Morrell.

If not better. I mean, I think Ice Spike should have been a little higher than Mr. Morale than Kendrick's album? Yeah, I mean, 7-6, I felt was a little low for the Queen Spice, but Mr. Morale being at the same category. Obviously, that album came out a year ago. How long is the Kendrick, Mr. Morab? Two days long. A lifetime. Yeah, that's a lot of time.

Yeah, two days long. Wait, the Hart Part 5 might be longer than Ice Spice's entire album. It might be. It might be. It's close. Yeah, I think it's nine minutes. Yeah. So pitchfork rated Ice Spices EP a 7.6.

Mr. Morrall and Big Steppers, they rated a 7.6. And then I saw that, honestly, never mind. They rated a 6.6. And then the 21 Savage and Drake, what's the name of that one? I forget. Her loss. Her loss. And they rated her loss a 6.4.

again pitchfork they put these things out these platforms put these things out and it's obviously to engage people and get people riled up in the comments and it's trope their opinions definitely troll city it's troll city i mean that doesn't make any sense bro first and foremost isn't pitchfork supposed to be like the fucking hipster uh it was supposed to be musical like fucking integrity shit it was supposed like i feel like mr morale to them would have been a 15 if it only goes up to 10 and ice spice they would have been like like, ugh, how dare you? Yeah,

even get recording equipment. We're on the scale 10, right? Yeah. So we're in the scale 10, and those three albums for... Ice Spice's EP is rated higher than Drake's last three albums. Right. And the last three...

Yo, that's wild, bro. That's so wild to me. So we know, we can know. We understand what's happening here. This is to engage people. People want to be outraged in the comments. Let them have fun. repost this, send us to everybody.

Like, look at what pitchfork is saying. But, I mean, at some point, I understand what clickbait is and what wanting to engage the audience is. But, I mean, come on, bro. We got to be just a little more, have a little more integrity than this. Yeah, you at least got to do her loss in them. Like, you got to get it closer to 10. Her loss is definitely not a 6.4.

Yeah, bro. I mean, honestly, never mind. People had mixed reviews about that. I thought that was a really dope project. It was dope. I like that project a lot. Let me try to, I don't know, find a day. debate here.

Pitchfork being this fucking progressive hipster Williamsburg Greenpoint. That's what this is? East Williamsburg, Bushwick type of blog at this point. I feel like Ice Spice is pushing the sound forward, no? She's a new artist. Like, we've heard a lot of shit that's on her loss. That's yesterday's news. We've heard those sonics.

Ice Spice is pushing the culture forward. We never heard nothing like Ice Spice. Okay. So you're not looking at it that way. I'm not. You're right. I'm looking at it. I'm just listening to music.

Listen, I have never heard it either. I'm just listening to music. And again, I'm happy that Ice Spice is, you know, she moved a unit she did. But we're just talking about just music. Again, you know, back to Rick Ruebman thing, I just have supreme confidence in my taste. Yeah. I don't think that her loss is a 6.4. Yeah.

My ears and my soul didn't say that's a 6.4. I mean, not for nothing. I had an argument three weeks ago. about Ice Spice and I was like bro I always thought that she could be the person moving forward I just felt like she had those star qualities to be on MTV Awards presenting award

and doing certain things and I think that's a big that's good for them to say that you know what I'm saying forward I'm not mad at I can win the argument and get my money I'm glad pitchfork is giving her because I think 7-6 is still a good rating

that's just too low though bro like we could but to put it at the same as Mr. Morale is a little... Yeah, so we're going to five mics. What's Mr. Morale to you? We're going on five mics? Mr. Morale? Four. Four and five. Four and a half. Yeah, I got it hired in four and a half for sure. I don't know if I can say four and a half yet, but four.

Okay. Mr. Morale... It has had a lot more replay value than I thought it would. Yeah. I was... That was my only fear of it. I was like, this is incredible. Not sure how much I'm going to go back to this because it puts me in a mood or whatever. I've listened to that album nonstop. It hasn't really left for. rotation since it came out. That is a this it's just the way the entire the the sequencing um everything just flows. I know when it's when it came out we reviewed it and to me it's an audio book. Yeah. It just sounds like you're sitting down listening to a book and somebody's just giving you different chapters and the sound bed behind it and things like that like that. Like that's to me Mr. Morrell and Big Step is one of

the best albums I ever heard. I think pitchfork actually puts it perfect as far as Mr. Morale. Each line can feel like an intrusive thought untethered to a central theme like when said how can i lose if i'm already chose with if not party lit i rather not go halfway through bikini bottom oh wait this is the ice spice review i'm sorry i was reading the wrong review like what that's the ice spice review i'm sorry yeah yeah i mean what central theme is the ice spice shit is it not like an overcorrection of wokeness do you guys feel like it just doesn't seem authentic when i read these things. It's like for years it's been male dominated. It's all guys, guys. Is it

not just like, when I sent it in the group chat, I genuinely meant it. Like, is this not just too far? Oh, you're saying because she's a woman and because you're misogynistic. 100%. And this is why you're a munch, man. But it's like, come on. She got a higher rating because it is an empowerment of women

and she's talking about... You just like objectively look at the music. Come on. Like, it's not... No, I'm not mad at 7.6 for her rating. Just don't have Mr. Morales at 7. That's my only. You're like, once y'all saw that y'all see, because they obviously rated that when the album came out, right? There's an old rating for Mr. Morrell.

So once you saw that, you had to be like, okay, we clearly cannot give this the same rating as Mr. Morrell and the big steppers. Because I feel like somebody in that office was fighting for it to be ranked higher than the 7.6. Yeah. And they was like, no, we can't rank it higher than. Yeah, for what their history was, you would really think that somebody was fighting in there. Oh, I hope so. I don't know who's up at pitchfork. I don't know who's there, who's working there.

But listen, man, I'm learned. I'm learning from having debates with Don that, you know what, maybe I'm not wrong, but maybe I'm not right. So listen, I may, ice spice might be a 7.6 to some people, right? To me, no. I'm willing to argue that some of my people that young guys around me would probably listen to that more than they would listen to Mr. Morale. Oh, for sure. And that confuses me because I'm like, man, is there no way we can say what is the great? album? Like, what is, like, how can we, like, how can we talk about this? How can we say, yo,

her loss was fire? How can we, do we just not say things is great anymore? We just say, no, we're going to rate it's for you. And not for you. Okay, but even though you don't do, even though you don't do this in our debates, you, you have put that in perspective with me as far as, I'll say, I think an album is top 15. Yep. And then you'll name 25 albums and ask me if it's better than that. Exactly. So you're kind of in the pitchfork lane as well. No.

No, not really, because from Don. It's valid. It's valid. No, it's not valid. It is valid, but it does feel like it's discrediting, which shouldn't be that way. But we're like,

I want to put an album in the top 10. Don, he'll just pull up. There's 45 albums better than that. He'll pull up. No, but Donna, pull a bar out and then look at you after he says the bar. Like, you had this ability to make a bar

that I probably thought was the greatest shit I ever heard. Sound like the most remedial elementary shit ever. And I'm like, damn, I never heard that bar like that. But I realized what it is, it's just your pitch. Yeah. Like, it's not, it's, it's how you say shit.

Yeah, it's the pitch. Because you'll give me the bar and I'm just like, yeah, that didn't sound, that wasn't hard. It didn't have that life to it. So I'm going to bring up one of the bars. The bar was like crispy cream. I'll be flipping them owes. You thought that was the greatest bar ever. No, I did not.

Did say that. You said it was one of the best bars I've heard. You know why? Because you did the song. Because if I was scared. Because you produced the record. If I was in, if I was up north, right, this is prior to Krispy Cream being up north. Okay.

I'm in the South and I'm like, wow, this is, wow, you just said you flip an O's, like, donuts? I would immediately like, well, maybe first thing is like, I didn't expect to hear that from him. How honest and on point. Somebody would say, man, it's my owes. Yeah. Crisp cream, like, it made sense to me. Okay. You know what I mean?

That was just one bar that's just like, I know that people pass the higher learning or the higher thinking people on this level we're gonna be like, yeah. I've got it when you said it, but the debate was so heated and we were talking about some of the greatest bars ever

and we were talking about Kendrick and that you was like... That's what I said. We broke out of a whole Kendrick first. You're like, that's whack. But have you heard that O's bar from GZ? I'm like, dog, GZ says him harder shit than that,

But I understood what you were saying. Exactly. That's what I'll say. You didn't expect, first of all, GZ to put that at that time because I don't, like you said, Krispy Kreme wasn't even in Atlanta at that time, were they? Yeah, Krispy Kreme was in Atlanta, but I didn't think it was all over the world. Okay. So I think it was like, they didn't have Krispy Kreme here, right?

When did Krispy Kreme got, five, six, seven years? We got it late. Yeah, yeah. We had, no, we had to wait more than five, six, seven years. Yeah, hell of you. Well, I thought about it was like, it's so many versions of that. I was like, oh, flipping the O's, man, Kris Kroon got the, Krispy Kreme got the best donuts.

Yeah. I get it. That's better than Dunkin' Donuts to be. I'm not even close. Yeah, it's like that hot glazed. You got them hot off the press? Yeah. I was.

You went somewhere else with it. I get it. I get it. I get it. So that was GZ suggesting he had the better product too. Like, I didn't even, there's layers to that. Okay. You funny.

But yeah, that's where I was getting at. I saw something else. 50 Cent had some pushback. Jamal Crawford did an interview. And he said that Jayzee's, impact on the culture goes beyond music. He has a bigger impact

on the culture than Eminem does. No, no, it's reverse. He said Eminem has a bigger impact. No, 50 said that, but originally it was in response to Jamal Kroffa saying that Jay-Z has the biggest impact on hip-hop. And, you know, anytime I think 50 hit Jay's name,

he's just going to refute some shit or just throw some salt. 50's crazy. But he loves Jay. No, he has a weird way of showing his love for Jay. But he went to, it was a few weeks ago, I forgot what interview 50 was doing. And he almost went to compliment Jay and then was like, well, I mean, he looks like a gay painter now. And I was like, you know, 50 just can never. He just can't give you.

That's his way of showing love, I think. I think it is too. Like 50 is a type of guy. You give him a hug and he back up looking at you. Like, he check his pockets. Yeah. What you just took. I'm just giving you a hug, man.

I love you. Yeah. Like 50, he has trauma. understandably so we can understand why 50 has trauma but why 50 is so funny is that he'll be in like a dead serious point and then be like and i mean that's why he looks like a gay painter yeah it's like all right 50 and he looks at everybody in the room in the hours like after he says it like who's going to refute that he doesn't pull up the pictures yeah it's funny because i got a picture on my gram right and i think like elli made like one of my chains and like he came to the studio

to do an interview we're in a hallway and the first interaction with us was like it was like yo it wasn't that it was like yeah it was like yeah we're going to do you guys he's that chain from. He's supposed to have no chain like that, bro. I got the picture of him, like, grabbing the chain. Looking at your chain. It was like, it's so funny because I, when y'all talking about this, I know who he is. Yeah.

Funny and shit, bro. He's, he's on his own. He doesn't go to fuck about him. He's doing his own thing. But I'll ask the question to you. Yep. Does Jay Z have a bigger impact on hip hop than Eminem or does Eminem have a big impact? I hate answering these questions for the simple fact that there's so many ABC, D, E, F, G.

Yes. You know what I mean? So. My first time traveling to Japan and all these places like Africa, I will say that M&M is in more places across the world than I've seen Jay-Z. I've went to record stores across the country. I see Eminem and Ludacris everywhere. I see barber maps. You might see ludicrous on it.

Eminem's impact across the world. And just they had this analogy about what's the most. common thing all around the world and they say stop signs right and the most recognizable faces is mike jackson's him maybe Elvis and a few others and those are the things which makes me feel like oh worldwide yeah maybe in hip hop he may have the most influence but when we're talking about like changing so many pieces like when jay had when he was wearing the crown heavy he uh he's what changed clothes. It was a cultural thing.

That was outside of rap. He didn't tell people stop doing bars like this. When Defal Autotune came, it was like almost destroying Autotune. But Autotune lives. But at that moment,

it was like, oh shit, what do we do? Do you stop using Autotune? Like, what's it? You know, the toughest thing that I ever heard my life was like, put some T-Petain on my voice. And it would hurt me. Because I was like, oh, shit,

T-Pain is my man. I don't know what to do. You know what to do. You know what I'm saying? So it was like a lot of that going on. But as we've seen him change so many places, it almost might be even. But I would love to even hear what Jay has to say. He probably never will talk about it.

But only because one of his lines was only people using moving units is impimp juice at us. It's like that almost felt like he was trying to say, look, I'm in the running with these guys. I'm going to try to get here. past that. You know, he's always did that. He's always, like, yeah, he always recognized him. But it's hard, it's hard to say because M's done so much, like, 50s here. Part of Dre's second win was them collaborating.

I think that D-12, the movie, 8 Mile, like, so much came out of it. I mean, think about this. One of the staples and hip-pop's is Shade 45. Right, sure. You know what I'm saying? That's on series highlight, it's out of which we're a part of for 17. years going on 17 years we've

be able to captivate hip hop on that level you know and he's had everybody's at us sway he's had uh rude Jude he's had um who kid uh K Slay you know what I'm saying we all staples so he's

he breeded that you know it's so it's so debatable it's not as easy to answer as people online try to make it seem to be they're gonna go back and forth on some idiot shit. Oh, he's this. He's down, but I'm breaking it down for real.

He rapped better than him on Renegade. They go right to that. I was almost upset that when I went to these places like Johannesburg and I didn't see Jay-Z or I couldn't. Like some of the songs I was playing didn't have the most impact like I wanted to have. My night cap record when I'm trying to get the crowd popping was allow me to reintroduce myself. My name was Hove.

That didn't work in so many countries as some of those other records did. Not to say my go-to was one of the M&M records, but it wasn't those and I was hurt. Lose yourself? Lose yourself? I would have loved to play. I could play that in those spaces where, you know, but those clubs I were playing,

they were like Chitlin Circus in other cities. You know what I'm saying? My biggest record when I was out there in those places was like, knuck if you buck. Does it sadden you a bit that the impact of the mixtape era just by sheer business design will never equate to its monetary value. Like we see people selling the catalogs now

from eras that were so impactful. Yeah. And whether we agree with the number or not, like we just said, we understand why they're doing it. Mix-stakes-wise, that can't really happen. Yeah. Is that a shitty feeling or is there other ways?

It's not a shitty feeling. I'm going to tell you why. Because anybody in that game, I mean, I can't speak for everybody. But what we were doing was creating history. You know what I mean? If there was any monetary, you know, coming from that, it was based on us being able to continue building the history. You know what I mean?

And when you're building history, you're not thinking about, damn, I wish I to get paid for that. I'm thinking about, man, that helped me cannibal here. Yeah. Like, John was able to win a Grammy. years later, based off the information that we had to go through or, you know, at the standpoint we had to go through. And that's just like, you know, and I'm not saying, that's the Mount Rushmore or anything you do.

Right, right. I'm just saying that is possible now. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's worth more than any money is to say, oh, man, I did all that and got rewarded. Right. You know, coming up and, you know, even before we were born, like, the people that stood for

something were never rewarded other than they stood for something. You know, they never got what they've gotten. I learned that when I went to Africa. Like, when when Nelson Mandela I went out there when he was

coming towards his end, it was people sitting on his lawn from what they were telling us for six months and praise and how much of the humanitarian he was. And they forgot anything that he had done,

nobody liked. There was just everybody was out there to see and be a part of it from every aspect. There were people with cameras out there. There's people that lived by what he says, people that followed him. And it made me realize like, man,

it's all about the history. Yeah. It's all about the history. Anything that comes with it is to, you know, handle more history where we're moving forward to. So, yeah, I mean, that's what I'm with.

I'm like, man, whatever. But I think there's going to be just way, way later down the line, I don't know if we'll see it. I think there will be a research of that whole mixtape catalog with these tech companies buying everyone's catalog because you can't monetize mixtapes because the labels aren't going to budge. They budged a tiny bit with certain mixtapes. But that's why they're not on DSPs.

That's why we can't monetize them because it's someone else's beat with publishing over here. And once these tech companies own everything, I don't see them care. or going with the dinosaur ways of the label where it's like we will never clear that. Yeah. They'll be like, all right, we could put this, everyone loves this mixtape, it has historical value,

and we own the beat. So we just have to do a quick contract with the beat we own to whatever rapper is on that. It's very interesting. I think there will be a whole mixtape on DSP's eventually. It's a one-stop shop now. Yeah, it's very interesting to see where it goes.

Like, in five years, streams may not be here. You know what I mean? So, I'm very... Might just be impressions. You scroll past it. Yeah, I'm interested to see, like, if they buy up all these catalogs, let's say in five years, they've bought up 75% of everybody younger and older's catalogs. And then the tech company say, hey, we got you. Now all the streams are worth $4.50.

That's what. Which was 0.002854. Right. And, you know, and then we'll be like, oh, that's what they was planning to do. Like, I felt like that with Metaverse. I felt like they was trying to get everybody to buy all these cribs out there so they could take the land. Right here. Like, when you come back, oh, you got a rent from me.

Right. I bought all the land. Right. Wait. We was in the Metaverse buying clubs and art galleries and stuff. And now we're back here. Now we got a rent. I can't buy no more.

So I feel like that's what's happening a little bit. So there's like this like thing I kind of like Paul's ride on that it's like, it's like, I want to be credit investor and have the funds in the liquid to do these things. But at the same time, what's coming in five years? Another pause. What's coming in five years? Now you're getting crazy. In five years where they say, yo, streams ain't it no more.

Now we're going into fandom where everybody gets their music directly from the artist. Or what's this? Like that's where I'm like kind of trying to figure out what is it making. But again, we don't have enough time to really be like, you know, it's going to it's going to be there. Let me get my money now. So I can be credit. Again, to go back to Jay and Impact and, you know, this podcast, we've been called to Jay Dick Riders all the time. So this isn't going to help the case. I think the original plan of title was very much that. As far as the artists having it, we're bringing our catalogs,

at least what we have in publishing wise over here. We're going to do exclusives here. It was just too ahead of its time and the marketing admittedly, like, was just all. awful as far as the title marketing. Yep. But it was what I think everything is going to move into eventually. I think Jay was just, he was too early with it and it just was not executed properly. Yeah. But with everyone buying up these catalogs, who knows what streaming service will be in the hardware of the phone when we buy the iPhone 25?

Yeah. If we're talking on the business side as far as like the streaming too, like think about De LaSoul, their catalog just became available. Yeah, Alia too. You know what I'm saying? Alia. Like these things are like, whoa. And it's a control.

I can be like, yeah, take this, take that down. You know what I'm saying? Before when the CD's out, you ain't going to go houses across America. Like, hey, can I have the CD back? Yeah, right. So we have this print or the sample wasn't clear on the fourth track. We need all that back. We'll give it to you when we fix it.

Now we're like available to have that happen. Like I was excited to see DeLasso do the history of her. They've went through with labels and not being able to get their things together. But now that it's hopefully signed off in the correct way where they can make money moving forward and people can sample it and do these things, I feel like it helps in that way. But them buying a catalog is like, what do I do? I sell.

You know, and the smart thing is sell, build another catalog. Sell again. It's exits. You know, I learned that from being around some tech people and they're like, man, my resume is full of exits. People respect that. Right. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Let's talk about your app. Yeah. Was that something that you, again, that fell into your lap or something that you took years and you just always was thinking about it. Like, I got to get in a tech game. I got to get in that game and create some type of, again, a foundation or a building to where I can, you know, do what I want to do, kind of employ people, give people opportunity and do something dope for my history and my legacy.

Yeah. As far as the app, let me get into the history before I talk about it. In my life, I felt like my next steps was tech. Okay. You know what I mean? I didn't think I was moving into liquor brands. I didn't feel like I was moving. At one point, I did want to start a clothing brand. But I felt like a lot of stuff was niche. And I feel like I learned getting older that I feel stuff now.

Okay. So when I'm going to speak to people and they're coming to me and saying, hey, how do I get on? My initial response was always, man, work hard and, you know, your time going to come. You just got to keep, you know, hustling, hustling, hustling. I felt like that was just like, you look, like, nigga, these bills coming right now. It's to flee off, you know what I mean? So I feel like doing so many of those, it started to hurt my feelings.

I'm like, bro, I'm starting to just flee people. I'm telling them anything. And I don't want to do that. So, you know, the point of tomorrow is a marketplace for creatives and clients to find each other so we can make money. You know what I mean? And that came from that standpoint.

Another point, you know, it was my wife's idea that, you know, she had a friend that was doing styling gigs and she couldn't stay in her professional gig. And that was just like, that's like a bad pain point for us. Like, I don't, I want you guys to be able to be able to interview anybody from Jay to J-Lo to me to the younger guy on a come up and not, and nothing wrong with this. And have to go shovel snow because you can't stay in your profession.

Right. You know what I mean? Right. And that's where, you know, when she brought the point up that her friend had the door Dash and like, you know, that could somewhat stop you from getting to another Stalin gig that was very important for Tyler Perry somewhere or for Kevin Hart because you got things you got to handle and it's just life. But we wanted to bring an alternative in the marketplace to where people can stay in that

field, get paid, not get money. You know, some of these creatives don't get paid. I can hit somebody I'm popular. I say, yo, make me a cover. They're so excited to make me a cover and build history with me. and then I ghost them and I pay them for the cover, whatever the case may be. And then clients not being able to have a hub

where they can find all the people that can have a black magic camera or have a studio to be at or a rapper or a producer. I'm in Alabama. I don't know how to make a song. I want to make a song. All those resources are in that.

So this is part of what I'm pushing for in giving back to the COVID. is something you can get to in order to get some portfolios off, which you build, make some money, you know what I mean, and meet clients. A lot of times you might not be able to get to Interscope

records. Right. But there's a chance that they're going to be on the app looking for things for products, product managers looking for things. Soon to come, young lawyers that will be able to take care of your business, marketing firms that I'll be able to do that. And just people

want to get into media. People want to get into these things. So we're building these resources for people to be able to be in that space. That's important. Again, like, I hate it. Task rabbit for hip-hop. Exactly. It's like I'm tired of it. You know, when we first started, we made it open for everybody. And then so many people was like, I want to be in an industry. So we had to kind of like focus in on that. And it's not just rap. All the genres. And, you know, again, there's no part of it's that that's very social. to me, I felt like a lot of the times we're very social in these spaces and it's too much instead of just the job at that as hand.

You know what I mean? And that's where I wanted to push. I wanted to get people involved. I wanted to be, we did crowdfunding. We started. We wanted people from the community to be involved. Okay. You know what I mean?

Because that allows them to say, hey, man, you don't have to have $250,000 in your private banking to be a part of this. Right. We're doing all this because this is a give back. You know, it's a pain point first. And after the fact, you know, it becomes more and more engaging from people like you and the stars. Just get people involved and the education of it is just, you know, we're doing well. Like, you know, we got people on the app.

We've got the media going to where we're highlighting things while we're up here. We did Steve-O careless. Okay, yeah. Shout to Steve-o. A staple that really doesn't get his story told. He had a lot, you know what I mean? We did, we also did his newcomer named Tyler, which is. you know creative director at kiff okay and also uh this guy named buda that works with davies

okay so we're just we're going we're going to different states we're doing a lot of uh you know information on these people to help them get out there because this is all part of what we're supposed to be giving back absolutely you know what's what's the full name of the app tomorrow app so it's tmrro but it's said tomorrow so you got to download y'all got this stuff early. Yeah. I get y'all hats early. You know what I'm saying? And I say when I come to New York, I'm a sit with y'all and explain to y'all what it is. I just

wanted to, y'all just see it, jump out there, just get familiar. But yeah. What's, and I mean, this may be even more outside of that, but what, to people that want to create apps, what's that process even like? There's, as I'm learning as we're moving, and one of them is

there's templates out there to where you could just make your own app. Like some people, there's an IG template that you can buy and just make an app. I'll go even further. In 2008 and 9, I had a Don Cannon app where you could go in there and see where I'm DJing at next. I'll get the episode.

I had studio rats, which was like, you know, they used to call people back and day, nah, you're a studio rat. You don't know. Yeah. And I made something called Studio Rats where you would see Asher Rolf in there, Gizi or me making a beat with Gizi or, you know, Zatova and a shardy red making a beat with, you know, whatever. It was just, it was a lot of the stuff, cool kids and currency.

And that app alone was just like the information that you can go, see where I'm at, get tickets to the show, all that. And that was early on, but I felt like it was too focused on me. You know what I mean? It was just like me, me, me, me, me. Yeah. Instead of something that was for everybody. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I just downloaded it, so I'm definitely going to check it out. So to add, like we got templates. We have people that can spend money. I've seen people make apps for $30,000. I've seen people make apps for $60. I've seen people team up with people that make apps for $0. You know what I mean?

There's so many ways you can get into tech and create these apps. But it's very obtainable now that we're speaking of people selling their catalogs and having money and doing things. It's very obtainable for you to start an app. There's plenty of apps out there. Isaac Hayes Jr. has fan base. You have my man Corby and them. have Melody App. You have, you know, so many things out there.

We just talk with Ali, the engineer, engineers and everything that he felt like. I think it's so great just to see everyone getting into actual tech stuff. 1,000% because as we see with buying catalogs, tech is trying to buy up everything. Take us the fuck out of here. Favorite beat you ever made, worst beat you ever made that people love. who-hoo. That's crazy. Best beat I ever made was Canon.

I feel like Go Crazy is one of the greats, but I think Canon really helped me as a person to understand that I can blend Southern and up north. When I did go crazy, I was just up north. You know what I was in that session with Wayne for Canon? No, he sent it back. What was that daylight? Incredible. I'm running through you real quick.

So, pause. I'll run it down. No, I was losing your mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that wasn't a pause. So I started in Miami, I got, after I did go crazy, ANR named Dame from Atlantic Records, flew me to Miami to work with Trick Daddy. And I did that beat in a session. I was thinking, come on ride this train. Pause.

Pause. Quadity D.J. Just keep going. Go crazy on it. up north kind of hard drums together, I could give Trick Daddy a new sound. I was just thinking totally different. We weren't able to connect on that record,

but Fein, which is one of my guys. He was down there and he was in a session and he's walking around. He was like, yo, put that on. I got a hook for that. So he comes up to me, he just starts, I'm with the cannon, da, that was the original person that really came up with the hook. But it wasn't, he did something totally different, but it was in the room.

You know what I'm saying? Then I think it got to Bo Hagen because we had the same manager at one time. Okay. And Bo Hagan, it was supposed to be on a Bo Hagan's records. And then I think that moved into Buster doing a verse on it. And then we're going to Wayne to get the verse. Yeah. And when I heard of Wayne Ver, he did the whole beat all the way through.

It was like three minutes. And we chopped it up to make a verse out of it. Okay. You know what I mean? It was a hook in it. he came back. Them boys pussy, bone without a backbone.

That was the second verse. Okay. You know what I mean? We just took the hook out, Spice did, put it together, made it a verse. And I was like, man, I don't know if anybody else is going to be able to kill this beat. You know what I'm saying?

Like he did. And it was amazing to hear. But one thing we did with Wayne to, every time we sent him something, he took it seriously and murdered it. You know what I mean? So when I heard that, I was like, yo.

A lot of people say that about Wayne. Like, he's one of those guys that's big of for artists and superstars he is, they really don't expect to get the verse back as quick as they do. Like, yo, Wayne, sent it back. Right, he sends it right back. He's a student of game.

Like, we can go on and on. Up until now, he still sends things right back. Period. So that's the best beat. The worst beat that I ever made that I probably didn't like. Well, not worst beat you ever made. Worst beat that's universally loved type thing.

because every producer has a bunch of beats that have never seen the light of day that you would think are the worst beats but what's something that like we all love and you're like fam I hate that Oh somebody else's beat too No well I mean no no if you want a debate let's do it My beat

I don't have one because there's something that all of the beats there's something in there that I did that I was like I hear it and like man I wish I to put that eight away I wish I did that kick so it's hard for me to It's hard for me to save for those. But any other beat I might have heard, maybe it had been like, when I first heard it, I didn't like, I didn't like, I didn't like, I think it was Silk to Shocker. What was the name of the song, man?

Underrated. It might have been, let me hit it. Doon, do, do, do, do, do, do. Okay. I thought that was the most amateur beat at that time. Yeah. But sound click era. It proved me wrong because I heard it before it was hitting the club.

and when they hit the club I had to play it I was like oh yeah now I understand bro what am I talking about and you know being from up north naturally we're not going to like a lot of stuff we're just like no yeah it has to do this yeah it has to go like this yeah and uh my guy no ID told me this story about how he was in the apple store and how the girl just was like we have the privilege to make records better so our judgment is different you know what I mean And then, you know, what she would think. She's just a fan. She doesn't have the ability.

She's like, I don't have the ability to make this better. Right. That's all we have. Right. So we like it. And it's a classic in the library. Oh, yeah. That's a great perspective.

We have the ability to make things better. So our judgment goes far beyond how they think. Absolutely. You know what I mean? What was it like the day three stacks sent back his verse for art and storytelling part four? And what was it like to be part of the legacy of the art? of the art of storytelling.

Amazing. Now when I made the beat, it was just, which is really different because it was the first beat I had made playing chords. I think the motif that first came out. The chords are fucking beautiful. And I went bought it and I just put it up on a man. I was like, bro, I'm really about to play the keyboard. I've been sampling my whole life.

Yeah. So me just messing out with sounds and all I thought was Ryan Leslie. Because I'm like, Ryan Leslie is the illest dude. When it comes to just coming up with chords effortlessly. Right? The second part was like, Pharrell. And it was like those chords were between Ryan Leslie and Ferrell. It's so funny.

You know what I'm saying? Okay. I love those chords so much and would have never equated that to Ryan Leslie until you just said that now. They are very much Ryan Leslie courts. Yeah. So think about, think about, you're in my diamond girl. Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. No, how they're arranged.

So think about like storytelling the sound of it. It wasn't the same key. It's just such a lower note that Ryan Leslie wouldn't use. That's where I didn't. So then it's like early Farrell when he started when he started when him and Neptunes got out of the stabs. But then they started going, excuse me missing. It was like a lot more chords. I was thinking that in my brain.

So I was like, bro, samples are taking so much money. We're going to do a pack where you're just playing. So I just played it. I think if I can remember it well, I took. Dram sent the record to Andre and he was working on it. Every time he hit him, he was like, he's like, yo, so the verse coming along, he's like, yeah, slowly but surely. You know what I remember taking the beat to stink on you to Big Boy. And I think what I did to rile him up, I was like, yeah, you know, Dragan on this or I don't know if he heard him.

I don't know, I can't remember if you heard the verse or he knew the verse was coming. And I was just sitting in there. I remember just taking a beat to Big Boy and have him do the verse. and I was excited because I'm like, oh, maybe he did hear the verse and got excited. Maybe I took the verse. However, it played out. But I remember being in Stankonia with Big Boy heard it.

Classic Stereo. You know, he had to love, I don't know, the blunt or whatever. He's just walking around. He's just black a mile probably. He's walking around. He's just like, he's just in the booth. And yeah, I'm thankful for that record because I was part of the last couple outcast records.

Yeah. It wasn't like on a down. You know what I mean? It was still here. I was like, man, you got one in. Yeah. And I'm thankful that I was able to complete a trilogy in my mind. Like, I was able to do an Outcast record.

I did a record with Jay. You know what I'm saying? And I just did so many great, talented things. It was like the Canon beat and the Go Crazy beat, I probably worked with every artist ever because he freest out on that beat. Well, not ice spice yet. Not nice spice yet. They might, hey man, sample that record, please. Sample that record.

No, and that's such a great point too because so many times when groups are about to split up whether good or bad, I mean, of course, Outcast is still friends. Those last few records are never that good. Yeah. Especially off the series that, like, we talk about Drake timestamp records. Art of storytelling is that for Outcast. So to be part of that and it not be trashed and it be elevated.

It was storytelling. Like it was really part of that series that we do. loved. Absolutely. Where you could fuck this whole thing up. Was there a three? There was a three. It exists, but it's not like on any album.

Who did three? I don't know who did the beat. It just, I think it was one, two, and then went to four. But it might be three. No, there's a three somewhere. Definitely is a three. So I trumped it. I went to four.

Yeah. Yeah, three might be some type of Rico way beat or some shit. Yeah, it might be. Yeah, I don't know. We can look that up. But no, artist, storytelling four is my shit. I mean, I still think three stacks should have just fucked her. I think he was being a little dramatic.

Like, come on, man. She's already here. That's true. That's true. And they're probably going to break up once she goes home. She was definitely late. Definitely just late. All right.

So before we get out of here, man, I can't let you leave without us. I don't want to debate you on this. Yes. No more. Debate. Debate. Debate. I don't want to debate on this, man.

But since we've last. debated LeBron is coming up on the all-time scoring record. Yes, sir. And I'm sure that's another notch in your hat for your argument that he's the greatest ever. And did you go to the game

when he was in Atlanta? I didn't. I was actually out of town. I think I was in Miami. Okay. Yeah. So we had a heated debate for hours. Who's the goat? Michael Jordan, LeBron James. And LeBron is coming up as

All time leader's score. Huge, huge accomplishment for him. So for the last time, I just want to end it here. So I just want to end it here. The last time. I just want to end it here. Between me and Don, me and Don, will never debate this again. Yeah.

The greatest ever, in your opinion, is LeBron James. And why? Can I give them the story, though, bro? Give them the story. Okay. So first and foremost, I'm Kobe, period. Absolutely. I'm Kobe.

Period. Which I don't know why more people don't put Kobe. be number two behind my... Well, for a long time, it was that. And then I moved in LeBronk. But the story goes for me just so people know and don't get it construed. This is what happened. When I was growing up, I was a Charles Barkley fan and a Shaq fan.

I don't know how I missed the Jordan part. I don't know yet. But I know he... I understood what he was and he was great. I'm not debating that. And what he did was unmerciful. Yeah. You know what I mean?

But being that I was a Charles Barkley fan and a Shaq fan, maybe because I was trying to play center or power for it, I don't know, man. Yeah. If he was a guard, maybe I don't know. Yeah. But I didn't get a chance to get that. And I felt like being a debater, young, everybody liked Michael Jordan. So I wanted to go against the grain.

Okay. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, yo, it's Shaq. Yeah. It's Charles Barkley's better than Michael Jordan. Now what? Yeah. Then I'm like, well, you wear Michael Jordan shoes.

I wear Charles Barkley shoes too. Yeah. First shoe I bought was a Berkeley, and I didn't get the Jordan. I bought the dinosaur teeth joint. You know what I'm saying? And I didn't get the Jordan. People was at school like, bro. Yeah.

And for the life of it, I didn't. Since some people loved Michael Jordan so much, I went and bought pennies. I went and bought, I had Cosmecazis, bro. Okay. So I see, okay, so now I understand where it stems from. So it starts there. And then being that me watching Kobe play, or playing against him or playing on the same team in those leagues,

that made me follow his path because I was like, hey, I'm stopping playing basketball, but I'm watching him win a championship very young that resonated with me. The first time that happened, I feel like I cried because I put it in the same space as me getting a Grammy at the moment or not getting there yet. It took me seven years to get to go to crazy

from where I first started as an adult making music. and I've watched it so I walked with him and then along came LeBron, the actual goat long came LeBron as you can see on the screen That was a dark

Yeah I don't What I want to do in this debate too I don't want to I don't want to say because he's going to be the best score ever that there's nothing else to talk about

I want this to live on I want this to be the Tupac Biggie Jay Z. Nas conversation forever. But I do want to say, looking back in my childhood and identifying, it's probably because of who I was a fan of for. Like, I would put anybody before Jordan then, and it wasn't a hate thing. It was just like, bro, y'all like him too much.

You know what I'm saying? That's called hate. Might be actually the exact definition of hate. It might be a player-hater. It might be a player-hater. I might be a player-hater. Yeah. But I put Elijah on the front.

When he started to bring up, like, he's burning Berkeley and him. I said, well, he ain't better than La Juan. He ain't better than Byrd. What? I was like, anybody. Well, I didn't say Patrick Ewing and stuff like that. I didn't want to be. Thank you.

Thank you for not doing that. Patrick's fired, but I didn't want to, I didn't want to be disrespectful. Yeah. But I wanted to be, this is where the debate and came from. It started there. Okay. Yeah, but we're going to leave this conversation now. Just leave it, yeah.

If I ever meet my, I met Michael Jordan a few times in the club or whatever, but if there is a chance that we ever get back in the room and it's private. I'm going to tell him to his face that LeBron is better than him. No, you're not. I tell you, you're the biggest Michael Jorah fan. Matter of fact, I messed up. I was supposed to bring you all my Michael Jorra. You were.

And I'm mad. And this is why I'm saying I'm still a fan of Mike. I still got the dolls. I still got the sneaks. I got the jerseys. I got a lot of Mike stuff in my career. And I wanted to bring it all to you. How much LeBron stuff you got?

I got over time I had maybe 20, 25 pair of his sneakers. Okay. Right now, I only got five pair. Okay. The retroes, right? I got a LeBron dog. I got LeBron Wheaties box. I got a couple things.

I got some jerseys, but I think I got more Kobe stuff. I got a Kobe basketball. Oh, I mean, naturally. I got all the newspapers. I got the Dove, of course. I got all the jerseys. I've had the sneaks. But I think I've got more stuff, honestly, with Kobe than I got with either.

But I'm going to mail you. Yeah, do that. I would gladly take that. Because Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time. Who's the greatest? Yeah. He's a Larry Bird. The next.

Pistol Pete. So, you know, when they're coming in and getting the comments and anybody wanted to be able to be, I can go forever about this. No, listen, that was one of the most, Julian always brings that out. Kobe and me is the best. He talks about it. He's like, yo, y'all was going crazy. And if I was talking about that.

One of my favorite mall memories is him just putting his feet on Lake's desk, just holding court. He's like, smacking the desk. Like, he was boiling. His blood was boiling. I've never seen Maugh more. It's so funny is we were in Lake's office and Lake was in the office and Mall went to sit at his desk. Because, you know, it's like when you're talking about Mike, it's like, hold on, man. Let me take center stage because you.

It's just a disrespect I just can't take it. I think you're the biggest Mike fan ever, bro. I think I am. There's so many people that I've had this debate with. But one thing I respect about you is you have every fact down. Absolutely. You have every little piece down. So it's like I can't argue with that because I can't tell you every little piece of LeBron.

I can't tell you every little piece of nobody. Listen, LeBron is one of the greatest. I told you I love LeBron more for what he did off the court. There you go. The way he empowered. his crew, his friends, his family. To me, that's, you know, that makes him the goat for me. I'm just talking about on the court.

But Mike was just... What was on the court? For LeBron? What part was he missing? He was missed a part of heart. No, the one thing for me that LeBron, to me, where I can't have him as the greatest of all time is you can't let a player that's coming off the bench average more than you in the finals.

Gotcha. You just, it just can't happen to the goat. Gotcha. One of the greats it could happen to, but the one, it can't happen. Okay, so what's the five? My five? Mike, Colbe, Shack,

Karim, Steph Curry. Damn. You see the disrespect right here? How's that disrespect? Where is LeBron fall? LeBron's probably, I put probably Braun 6, bird, seven.

Yeah, facts. Can we go to 10? Give me the last four. I just want to see if it gets really disrespectful in this way. How was that disrespect? All right. So let's talk about Steph Curry for a second. Steph Curry has...

Wonderful. He has dominated LeBron. That's a fact. In finals champ matchups, he beat LeBron three times. Three to one. That's a fact. And they should have won the fourth. This is where I can't argue.

He has all the facts. But go ahead. Steph Curry has changed the game of basketball globally. Yes, sir. Centers are shooting threes now because of the way Steph Curry came into the league shooting. Like, if you're sitting in the league and you can't shoot, you might not have a job because of Steph Curry. Is he more dominant than LeBron? Absolutely.

No way. How? Because LeBron went 10 times? Yes. Because y'all loved to hang on to that. He went to the finals 10 times. But how many times did he win? Because the name of the game is to win, not just get to the dance.

Don't tell me you went to the club and got a number and you didn't fuck. I mean, think about it, bro. Domination in the league, I don't think nobody's been as most dominating. Going into the club and getting to the NBA finals is fucking hilarious. That is funny. It's a weird comparison. Don't tell me you went there. Like, you know what I mean?

It's our equivalent. Yeah. It's like, yo, did you win? Because that's all that matter. Anyone can go to the club. It's like Michael Jordan retired at 29. The first time he retired. He was 29 years old.

Just think about that. Yep. Because he kept losing in gambling. When he came back, when he came back, when he came back, he was playing in the building. It was a statue outside the building of him. Okay. So I got you five. right.

Kareem now, he's going to surpass Kareem, right? Does that put him in that five, please? Who? Brown? When he surpasses Kareem, yes. I mean, again.

When he passes Kareem, I can't. He's still, listen. That means that most valuable. Being top seven to play an NBA is not a knock at all. Because you know how many players

come through NBA. So being one of the top seven, 10 is not a knock. Gotcha. But the reason why I can't put LeBron above Kareem is because one, Kareem held the title for so many years of scoring champion.

And I don't know how many people, so many people don't even have Kareem in their top five, which is disrespectful to me. Whether you didn't see him or you didn't know the game, he dominated every level of basketball, high school, college, and the NBA. Gotcha. What he had to deal with as far as just off the court with civil rights things and all of those things. That's an area that we have to factor in when we start talking about those legends, what they had to deal with off the court.

Right. And getting to the arena, getting inside the arena and hotel rooms and things like that. to still be able to go and dominate your sport at that level and you're dealing with all of these things. That's a fight. These are all things that you have to deal with. What was the league like with Kareem versus LeBron's league? Oh, man.

First of all, the game, the game, and that's another thing, the gameplay. Because Jordan, I think that's a good thing to say. But Kareem, I don't know if the league was the same. It was what Brown was in the league. Like, he was not the tallest player in the league. I think Will was tall and Kieran. Yeah, but his arms, both of them arms up is 15 feet.

Yeah, but. But again, he dominated. When you say dominate, it was like, you're not going to beat him. Like, it was like, you're not going to beat that guy. And I don't feel like, I don't know if it's because a lot of these younger players that play with LeBron because they're fans of him, they go to his camps. And then they make it to the NBA and they're just like, oh, shit, like I went to your camp and they're fans. But it's not the same level of fear. Right.

Like when Shaq walked into an arena, when Shaq was Shaq, teams were scared of Shaq. Teams were scared of Mike. We're good. We got Kobe. We got Mike. We got Braun. I'm not mad at that. Jordan Jackson Tyson.

Listen, I'm not mad at nobody. And mine's objective because I hated Kobe. Why? I was a Knicks and Iverson fan. Oh, man. So I hated Kobe growing up. I always thought Kobe was by far the best player I'd ever watched my entire life. J.D. and Puff are having quote-un-called verses in Atlanta.

And I've had the chance to sit in the studio with JD And he pointed something out that I didn't really think about Because if you just go off of the initial reaction Yo, J.D. versus Puff, who you got? A lot of people are going to go Puff. But J.D. pointed something out that he has records with Big that he produced. He has records with Little Kim that he did. He has records with Mace that he did.

So when he started playing those in the studio, I said, oh, shit. And these are bangers. These are like, these going to go off when you play it. As somebody that is from Philly, North had spent time in New York, so you know what Puff's influence and what it felt like, but also in the South in Atlanta. So you know what J.D.'s influence is. And a versus between J.D. and Puff.

Who do you take? I'm going to say it's a draw. And I love Puff because he catered to my lifestyle of what he was doing. I mean, a lot of people don't know this in my early years. I was signed to J.D. through Black Market, I believe the name of the company was. It was two DJ's trauma in Mars. And I was signed through their venture with J.D. And just knowing the stuff that J.D., like J.D. is a menace in the studio.

You know what I'm saying? Like he's a menace. Like he, like I've seen him do a lot of things. I've seen him become a businessman afterwards. But I mean, to grow up off Puff, but still grow up. and love Chris Cross, love DeBrat, and love money and a thing,

and then see it move into confessions. And then Mariah's probably arguably best album ever. Emancipation of Me Me. Next to Butterfly. Like, those involvements alone would make me almost say it's a draw. Almost.

Because if you had a total, you had an escape. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? If you had, And, and, and I'm giving, I'm going to say two in the career, working with kids isn't the easy thing, you know, he had three, maybe, maybe three successful albums with Crosse cross. Mm-hmm. Two successful albums with the Brett. You know what I mean? Bow wow. And bow, that's not forget bow wow. Like, that's hard to do, bro. Like, it's everybody's dream to have that young.

Yeah, rapper comes up. It sucks in avers of them. Yeah. No, it doesn't because contrary to belief, like, you maybe in there and hear, you know, the Luther Vandros, let me hold you, which, you know, even though I did it together, but it was like, you made, you may, oh, that was a bop. Yeah, you might hear some of that stuff like, funkedified as a bop. You know what I'm saying?

Jump, warm it up. Those is bops. You might be like, I ain't wanna dance to this, but it's junk, you know what I said? Yeah, yeah. I think JD beats Puff, which sounds nuts in the R&B category. Outside of everything, JD really produced in wrote these records.

But that's a separate conversation. We're just going off their catalogs. Cool. I do think Puff is the greatest ear outside of Quincy Jones ever. So give or take there. But rap-wise, I think, is just where J.D. is going to lose in that versus.

I think as someone that even... I'm 32 years old. I bought Beware of the dog. I love BOW. It's not going to do well in a versus. It's just not. R&B, though, I think he could easily hang. Does Puff have a better ear than Dr. Dre?

He said Quincy Jones Puff. thinking Quincy Jones, Drey Puff, that's just me. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I think Puff still, I think his ear is more diverse than Dres. Yeah, I think I'm a roll. Taking out. Taking out.

I think it's the R&B side more so. Taking out truth hurts and stuff like that. I mean, truth hurts versus like. You're taking out. What we talking about? Token out. Come on. Don't do that.

taking doubt. No, I'm saying. I just think it's I think it's for the R&B side of it versus Dr. Dre's not saying Dre's not saying

Dre doesn't have an R&B ear. Oh no, I mean, Black Street was fire like, hey, no, he definitely has it. By the way, I'm just asking a question. I'm just trying to run my brain.

Debate this with somebody and even Puff, like I could have argument of two, but I'd just, I would go Quincy Jones. But they also have but they also have separate ears

whereas Dre is one that's really there making the record as Puff is A&R executive producing. It's a different ear. Dre is looking at records way differently. So if we're talking about...

So he can't have such a broad ear because it's really his creation. Puff Daddy. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? A&R, he's the poster child. You know what I mean?

Absolutely. Period. Yeah. Yeah, whereas Drey is better at making the song. But Puff is going to... If you give Puff 30 records, Puff is going to pick the 12 and put that album together

as the classic. Indeed. Whereas Drey would make the 30 records with you, so I think maybe he's a little too close to it to really put that out type thing. That's where I think there's a lot of different. I think of all right. I think of all right.

Disrespect Drey's. Yeah, Dres probably not the one that out. I would not die on that. Definitely not disrespect to Dr. Dred. Because, well, shit, all right, I'll go further. You could say a lot of records Drey didn't make. They were other people's work

that he just stamped his name on. Whereas Puff, is that an A&R? Yeah, Drey is an A&R to some degree too. Okay. Absolutely. Scott Storch is an A&R move. Yeah. All his ghost producers.

You know, I had this argument too, again. Even though, let's hypothetically say that Drey didn't do it, right? It was Drey's formula. If I come to you and say, hey, this is how the record's supposed to be done. And I walk out the door and I come back and you do it, you did it based on my formula. Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's true.

You can pick five rappers from each city. Where does Philly rank? Five verse five versus five versus five versus five. Top five for sure. Who's the best Philly rapper ever? I can't be biased. I was going to say Uzi Vurt. You know what I'm saying?

I'm going to go. I love Uzi Vogue. But come on. I'm going to go. Let me go, Will Smith, Beanie Siegel. Todd. Meek and Meek is probably after that, Cassie, Gilly the kids after that.

I'm only putting them on the safe because I can't. So black thought is just like, just another thought, right? Yes, black thought. Damn, black thought. Black thought is there, the best lyricist to my rapper. And I hate to categorize this only because I'm willing to bet that I'm probably one of the only ones that probably really in Philly with being at merit if you're outside of the game. All right, but you're saying just hits. I'm sorry, you're saying just rapping Black Thought would be there.

I would say the last two or three people you named Black Thought has way more hits than what you just named. I feel that. I love Gilly to death. Black Thought has monstrous hits, too. I feel that. I feel that. I'm not saying. And Will Smith should not be the boy.

Best, best lyric is ever from Philly might be Black Thought. I'm just saying. I don't even think it might. I think it is. I'll go what it is. Wait, you said Will Smith. Coming out of Philly best rapper. Rappers.

Rappers and who? Who's number two? That's what I'm saying everything. Who was number two? I said Will Smith and Siegel rappers. Okay. Why Will Smith? Because he was the staple in Philly and some of the stuff.

Take the staple out. First grade. Didn't he win the first hip-hop Grammy? He won a first hit-hop Grammy, right? Yeah, he said take all that out. Take that part. Oh, okay, okay. His first couple of records was incredible in the rap game.

I think I could beat Mike Tyson. Parents just don't understand. For sure. You know, those records. I think big dad. Heidi Kane is incredible. Jay Z's better. But that's what I'm saying as far as that goes. Rockin-roll summertime, didn't he?

So they say. It sounds right. Here he is. And didn't Nas right getting jiggy with it? Or Nas wrote one of them records. We talk about the, we fresh prints and I, man. Y'all talk about later on. And you guys was the one behind Quentin Miller.

It's all adding up. It's a Philly thing, huh? Yo, Quentin about the Philly. He's not from Philly. No, he said y'all are from Philly. Yeah. Oh, wow. And Meek involved with it.

Yeah, it's a Philly thing. That's crazy. Oh, shit. What is what the ghostright in Philly? I like that. We're talented, bro. We're talented. Philly's always been, and probably always will be the home of the.

Yeah, I left out EST, the Matt McElest one. I don't know if y'all know about him, which was the greatest man, a lot of funky differences. Yeah, yeah. Times dope. We had a lot of great rappers. Like I'm saying, Steady B is up there, cool C. But when I talk about lyricists, it's going to be Blackthaw, for sure. Absolutely.

I can't argue. I will never argue that. And they've got good. Grammys, they've built so much in that city, we're standing on that hands down. I'm talking about rappers. I'm talking about everything together. For sure. I'm talking about what they've done.

And that's why I said the last three you named, I felt like Black Thought may have more accomplishments and hit records. Yeah, at one point, they debated Beanie Siegel might have been better than Jay-Z. I heard that. Oh, that was... I heard that. I heard it was a thing up north. Well, now I started on ether, he said Beans is better.

Well, you heard that at, Donald. Tell me you heard that. On ether. Where did you hear that? It's on her. Because you can't forget where you heard that. That's blasphemy. So not to spill the village, I was just doing a talk with math. And that's where it came from.

Because I never heard it. But now it's in my ears like, wow, they did come up with something that Jay was better than, better than up north. I was like, oh, I didn't know that. You know, I'm willing to not debate that. Beads is one of the greatest. I don't think he even gets talked about enough. I bring his name up in most interviews because I'm like, bro, he needs. needs to be heard.

Absolutely. That's ridiculous that. As much as he did. And I'm glad you got that. And he needs to be heard, bro. Absolutely. I would never. Beans first.

That's why I put him up there. But I got to put Gilly in there. The disrespect on Gilly's game, it's beyond. That guy, bro, I remember being 18, 19, and seeing him walk down the street and he was just on him. He was a guy. He rapped, Dutch and Spade, all these guys.

The history of Philadelphia is pound for pound most cities. Was Wayne living in Atlanta at that time during the gilly Wayne back and forth? No, I don't ever, I never remember Wayne ever live in Atlanta. Okay. I never, I seen him maybe in and out. Your relationship with Wayne, what was it like, though, with that O'Gilly situation? To be honest, I didn't have, you want to hear some funny shit? This is some funny shit.

We had Willie the kid. And when Wayne, he did like a freestyle, he was like, I don't got no time to deal with Willie the Squid. We thought it was like, oh shit, why he doesn't our man? You're our man. You're our man. It was kind of weird. But then we figured it out. He was talking about Gillian.

But at that time, I knew Gilly and I think Dron knew him, but we weren't as close. So we were out of it anyway. But I didn't. You know, I could easily took the Phillies hat and be like, no, it's Philly. Yeah. But at that point, I had to side with the guy that was rapping crazy. I think, I don't even think Gilly was gone. He was still doing rapping, but I think he was just, his time, he was going crazy.

But I think he was just, that was a weird space because it was like, I wanted to love for the Philly hometown. At the same time, Wayne was just like gassing. Wayne is Wayne. He was gassing. Yeah. You know what he was gassing. He was on another life. But I just wanted to make sure that those people get their names after that.

You got Eve and Cassie. All those are all the rappers in the city. We have one hard lyricists. And we got a lot of lyricists in the city. Oh, for sure. Black thought, lyrics. were you at that point made in America? I was talking with Freeway and Guru

and I was saying Exotaur Life has to be a top five Philly song. We were debating top five Philly Records. I think it's right behind Dreams and Nightmares that's Philly's biggest rap song. I would think so. Yeah, Philly's real. There's a lot of them though.

Do you think that Dreams and Nightmare hurt meek? And when I say that, it's because that record is so big. Yes, absolutely. And it's the intro to his first album. It's like he still has to people like, yo, but it ain't dreams and it's like, bro, I gave you out of that already.

I think the song is so big that it's not allowing people to see past to the real talent that he has. You're absolutely right. I think that the point that our go-to is hold up, wait a minute, in every club instead of a few of those records,

like house party, boss, I'm a boss. And just even in newer music, it's all great music, but we're putting it in a place where dreams and nightmares is... You're holding it to that standard. about to be his,

from the foul line. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I feel like that's hurting a little bit because they're expecting him to do that every time. Yeah. And even when he gives in and does it, they're like, oh, it's not dreams and nightmares. Every time he even tries to recreate that soul.

Yeah, it's tough, bro. That's a tough space to be in. Very tough. Yeah. Tough space to be in. Well, yeah, I think we can wrap. Yeah. Edding, you're wrapping us up?

Yeah. Yeah, he keeps giving us. Pause, yeah. And tapping us up. Well, Don, listen, man. Thank you for finally making this happy, man. Thank you all, man. I'm glad I came in, Brotherhood, man.

Congrats on the app for sure. Absolutely. Tomorrow, download the app. Thank you. Stop hitting motherfuckers in their DMs. Download the app. It's going to put you right in tune with what you need to talk to. It's going to help people find you.

That's right. Don, thank you for everything that you do for the culture, man. I appreciate you. You've been one of the guys that I've had, you know, my hop talks about you so much. That's my man, dog. So to sit down and really kick it with you and to build this bond with you has been.

It's been dope because from afar I've always watched you for years and watched what y'all been doing. Been a big fan studied with y'all, the artists that you I've been able to break in and build. So thank you for coming to kick it with us. We appreciate you and we've got to do this again soon, man. Yeah, soon later. Let's go. That's Don Cannon, y'all. This has been another episode of the new Rory and Mall podcast.

We will talk to y'all soon. Be safe. Be blessed. I'm that niggie. He's just ginger. Peace. No. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

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