New Rory & MAL - Episode 25 | "Take Your Coat Off..." (feat. Russ)

Episode Date: December 10, 2021

...and get comfortable! Rory & Mal sit down with rapper Russ off the release of his album 'Chomp 2' , and speak on his previous run in with Mal, his outlook on the music industry machine and it's fight against ownership, him getting his just due as an artist, his love life, + more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I just love talking. I got so much to say at all times. Good. No. No. No. No. I like talking to people that I like on a, even though we never met.

I just, every time I see you talking, like, you say the right shit. I saw you at the Atlanta airport one time. That's so, yeah. I was like, I'm pretty sure that that's small. Let me run up on now. No, right? I just told him about it. Right before he started recording.

It was like, yeah, I see Russ. We was on the same flight coming back here. Yeah. Coming back here from Atlanta. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was scared.

No. He was solo. He should have been scared. No, sure. I was by myself, but. He was dolo. It was like, he was. with his guys and it's like

you know I just I fuck with him something but I'm like it might be awkward right now like yo what's up man I don't know why I felt like you didn't fuck with me you felt like I didn't fuck with me

you felt like I didn't fuck with me this pandemic time? No this is pre-pendemic I don't know why I just I'm going back I'm like no I don't think I felt like you didn't fuck me I was like I feel like he's indifferent

that's what I felt so that's why I didn't go up I like that word yeah it was just like he doesn't care I feel like I'm indifferent about a lot of people sometimes at that time I was just like He doesn't care.

Yeah, yeah. Like, there's no beef, but it's like he's indifferent. But see, it's weird because I'm the same way. Like, I saw you and I'm like, I like, I like this dude, but it was kind of like, you know what I mean? Yeah, but it's like, it's awkward. Like, what do I say? Yo, what's up?

My mall. That's corny. Like, the fuck is that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, what is that? Put your shoes off and TSA? Like, come on. Don't talk to me with no shoes on.

Yeah, I didn't know what to say, but I just, I was telling Rory about that. I'm like, yeah, I saw Russell on time in Atlanta at the airport, and we flew back to New York together on the same time. That's the day we got banned from the greeter service because we were snapping on the like greeter lady because she was just. What grader lady? Like, so when we fly like commercial,

we get the greeter who just fucking breezes you through everything. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, okay. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we just got money. So we're just learning about this shit. But sometimes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I just got it.

Yeah. No, we were waiting in line. I got clear and I was like, oh, I got it now. Clear is the biggest finesse because You just feel guilty No see clear with me like You make me cut everyone in line

Yeah And now I'm still in the same line Exactly Take me to a different line That's why I got to pre-check clear That's backstage door That's what that is That's not even the VIP line

You had to go like do an interview and shit Oh yeah The Global Access They do a whole background check You find out shit about yourself You didn't even know Like damn I got an uncle that did what No I got to do the shit that on

That Biggs was put me on too where Did they come pick you up in the porches? Oh, we have, that's the tarmac transfer. And they drive you straight to the plane. You get on, like, where they load the food and shit at. Yeah, that's tarmac transfer. This is starting out as a very relatable podcast. I mean, that's some fly shit.

But see, Atlanta, they used to, like, be able to guarantee that. Then they just started making it random, like some days when it's available, some days when it's. Oh, okay. Yeah. Because you live in Atlanta? Yeah. Okay. I only see, I never see rappers in LAX.

Only the Atlanta airport. Every time I go, it's another rapper where I'm like, oh, did I say something? Yeah. At least I'm protected by the federal government in here. If you start trying to jump shit off in the fucking airport, you're a maniac for real. Yeah, I saw, um, I saw Dolf last time I was coming from Atlanta. Oh, wow. Yeah, we was on the TSA.

Oh, that's right. Tell me that. Yeah. But I'm, I'm glad you, you were safe because I mean, if it was during the pandemic, Russ couldn't, he couldn't do, uh, he couldn't do shows where he was beating up rappers at the stage. I thought maybe in TSA he would have to. No, I like Russ.

I like because he, you know, I like guys that move on their own shit. And I just always got that vibe from me. Like, you're not trying to be nobody else. Nah. You move on your own. cord you do what you want to do so i like i respect you like that i don't like me you try to be somebody else like you are you're yourself and i'm i respect that from anybody you know what i'm saying same yeah and i want to do the full yeah we're gonna do the full

absolutely incredible yeah see i don't want to do the full full like background story shit but off you saying you didn't know if i'm all fuck with you i had said things on our previous podcast which i walked back because i didn't have the full story of who you were and i know we had made jokes and i figured you probably hated me and then and then chomp came out And I was like, because I had heard probably like the bigger records of yours. Yeah. And I probably saw more interviews and more antics than I did music, which isn't your fault. That's just how things get put out.

Right. So I did have a preconceived notion of it. And then first Trump came out and I was like, oh, I need to walk this back. I didn't realize he was that good. And then I went back to the other music. When y'all gave the flowers for that. Yeah. I saw that episode with it.

Because I don't mind walking shit back when I'm wrong. I never would that. Yeah. But I also didn't know when he was making jokes. senior rappers are sensitive. Yeah, yeah. Like, I think we said he was from the Sikakis train station or something.

We didn't know where he was from. Now it's a problem. Now it's a problem. Now it's on. Yeah. Someone said he was from Jersey. I was like, oh, we're in jurors? At least it's a Caucasus. I was like, the train station? Yeah, yeah.

But see, the media, like, the media is supposed to have opinions. For sure. I don't really, like, I never really got bent out of shape. Well, I'm not going to say that. That's a lie. You're human. Yeah, like, with the media having opinions. Because there was times I was a hot head and like,

I got pissed if anyone had, like, was. talking shit with the platform. I don't really mind that. You know what I'm saying? It's more like I got offended, which I know on some emotional shit. It's like, I should be above it. And you pick who offends you and all these things.

But I would only get pissed off when like artists would talk shit. Because to me, we're supposed to be on the same team. And you know how this shit goes. You know, like people, you know, mob mentality, smear campaigns. everyone coming at you for some bullshit like we're all supposed to sort of be under the same understanding that look

at any given time we'll all probably be the target of some bullshit online nonsense right but us as artists shouldn't contribute to another artist downfall or mockery or whatever so when other artists were like talking shit that's when I was like you know better you're using your platform to come over here

and fuck with me like and basically make your fans not fuck with me like dog now. But where do you draw the line? Because hip hop's probably the only genre that is into being competitive. Like that's part of the genre. They weren't being competitive

because they had never even heard the music. It wasn't like, yo, I can rap better than you. Oh, I can sing better. It was like, fuck you, bitch. But that's a reflection of where we're at with music now. That's not competitive.

That's just like, we're all beating up Russ. We're all joking on Russ. And you're getting your licks in because it's the fun thing to do. but it's like, okay, well, how do you expect me to respond? I mean, that's a reflection of having this in your hand and being able to say anything at any moment. Because I really feel like anytime, even in the 90s,

when a rapper was the butt of the joke or getting their time, you know, their time, you know in the studios privately all the other rappers was doing all the shit that the rappers are now tweeting out. That's true. So I think it's there because it is competitive. And I feel like artists respect each other but don't like each other

just because it is a competitive thing. And they'll go through, they'll see shit that fans don't see. Like, the way you produce everything. I'm sure you've looked at a rapper that literally just shows up to the studio, splits a 16 and gets a number one record. You look at them like, all right, man.

Like, you don't really do too much. Like, you look at yourself at a different level. For sure. For sure. But at the same time, see, but I don't take it personal. Meaning, that's the difference. Like, I don't go for personal digs.

I might be like, you can't fuck me in the studio. Yeah. I don't say, fuck you bitch, you're whack as fuck as a human being. You know what I'm saying? I get that. That's like that, to me, you're no longer being competitive. You're trying to like insinuate.

Not insinuate. You're trying to instigate some sort of like mob mentality that we don't fuck with Russ. And it has nothing to do with music. If you want to be competitive, keep it on the music. But when you take it aside from music, that's like you just being a bully. Right. What do you think starts that? Because I feel like when Cole first came out, it was cool to hate Cole just on Twitter.

We knew in real life, Cole was selling out crazy theaters at that time. We knew it wasn't real. It was just internet shit. And then I feel like you had your time on the internet when it was cool to say Russ was corny. It was cool to say you don't fuck a Russ. Meanwhile, what you're selling out and the numbers you're doing are better than the A-listers that are popular on the internet. What starts that? Because I never know when it becomes cool and how we decide to pick that artist to say it's not cool to like that artist.

Because that was my thing. Like when we knew that we were going to have you for a conversation, my thing was, finally, because I always wanted to figure out what's the, because I'm not the typical listener. Yeah. I'm listening for different shit. I hear shit differently. Yeah.

So when I hear the talent, I'm like, oh, this dude is nice. Yeah. But I don't know any Russ fans personally. Sure. But I know what you do. And I see the arenas. I see like, I'm like, but I don't know anybody that like come in the crib and be like, yo, and banging Russ.

So I'm just like, where is it at? Sure. So having this conversation with you, that's the one thing I want. It's like, I need to know what is Russ's world? Like, what does that look like? Well, that's something. To Roy's question first, right? Like, where did this shit come from?

With Cole, it was music. People were just saying Cole is boring. Yeah. It was never people on Twitter being like, you're a piece of shit, Jay Cole. My shit, the reason why I got what I got, it was never about the music. I feel like, honestly, I feel like people know,

even people who don't like me, they know the music's hard. I feel like my shit was the opposite. It was like, you're a piece of shit. And it came, I'll tell you exactly where it came from. The first thing was

the everyday struggle interview. They didn't like how I was on the interview. They didn't like what I said to Nadeska. Okay. That's what started it, right? Wait, what was the quick back on that? I don't remember it, but I remember exactly. I know these, like,

was an email or some shit? Yeah, it was like, it was miscommunication and me being a fucking like, you know, fresh in the game, like chip on my shoulder. I'm like, y'all weren't even trying

to let me on it or whatever the fuck you know what I'm saying? Like just unnecessary to bring up. So warranted, fine. Right? After that,

it was the T-shirt. So that was like July 2017. Then like September 2017 was the T-shirt, the Zanz and Lean show. Yeah, yeah. And that fucking pissed off so many people, right?

And then it was me saying that a lot of the production right now sounds the same and it's monotonous. That pissed a lot of people off. And then it was getting, you know, people like altercations and shit but that was the timeline then it was just like you know whatever but

it's like I do you think it was arrogance through that there was arrogance can turn people off especially if they they feel you haven't accomplished something to their standard because they don't know you very much they just see someone that's very arrogant definitely like people definitely got offended by the arrogance and there was arrogance on my part at the same time though it was rap for sure me and what always confused me a lot was like all right so But I've been like this since I was like younger. I know how to push people's buttons. And, you know, if we're talking shit, I'm going to say the thing that's really going to bother you.

And so I feel like rap is braggadocious. And rap, you know, we talk shit, right? Most rappers will talk shit about you don't have this watch. You don't have this car. I would be like, you don't own your music. That one cuts a little bit deeper. Exactly. You feel me?

I would be like, you don't make money. Right. Right. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, but what confused me, not confusing because I know because it cuts deeper, but I'm like, wait, so y'all am at what I choose to talk shit about. I'm not going to, I buy designer clothes too. My closet is this.

My cars are this too. But that's not what I choose to brag about. Right. What I brag about is some shit that like means something. Ownership. You tell me? I think it's a thing of people just feel like, because like you said, when you say things like that, it stings differently.

Yeah. And it's almost like, you know, people may feel like what validates you to say that? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? What validates me to say that is that I actually own my shit.

Right, but they, but again, and you know how it is in the culture. Yes, you own your shit, but they like, but why you, what makes you think you could talk to me like that or what makes you think you could say that? Right. Like, yeah, you own it,

but it's like, but yeah, but why are you bringing that up? So now this was, this is where it all came from. I felt like I wasn't getting the credit, right, in the flowers that I wanted, that I deserve.

I agree. And it stems from, you know, 11 mixtapes, 10 years trying to get on, emailing John Tanner's at Pigeons and Planes, emailing pitchfork, like Eric Diep, whatever the fuck at Comp. Like all these writers I used to email back in 2012 with shit like and would never respond. So it comes from really like trying to get on. Yeah. And when I finally got on, I was like, yo, I still feel like, y'all aren't giving me the credit I deserve and what I'm really doing.

out here. And so that's when I started trying to almost like, it comes from a really, it comes from a big enough place, but also honestly, like a looking for approval place. Looking for approval from the culture that I'm obsessed with. Like I'm obsessed with hip hop. You feel me? I've been obsessed with hip hop because I was fucking five. Like, I love it.

And when I got into it and when I got on, I felt like, damn, like, I'm one of the people. who's doing, I felt like doing this the right way and like I'm saying something meaningful and like, y'all aren't fucking with me, but I own my shit. Yeah, I did everything right. But I did everything right. You know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't fuck with these, but like I'm doing, you know what I'm saying? That's looking for validity

in the machine that you're talking against though. That's where it gets a little weird. The fact that you say that, so my boy, Bugis, he was like, bro, you came in anti-industry. How do you expect to get industry love when you're anti-industry? Exactly. It's not even in the heat. Or be validated by them when you're saying you shouldn't need to be validated by now.

It's not even in the industry's best interest to boost my narrative. Of course not. My narrative being like a mainstream narrative is a direct threat to the industry itself. Right. So I can't expect GQ covers and this and that because

the fuck. If they put me on the cover of everything, what the fuck does that mean? The record labels are, come on. Yeah. And I mean, because the narrative now, which I like that bar on the album you would said that there's no money

of music I just made $20 million like the industry's dead because that is that is the narrative now which I've pumped too like guys there's really no actual value in the music everything you do around it you can make money off of but you get half a penny for a stream there's really no money there but that is kind of a false narrative to some degree too

so that's something they've been pumping within the industry now like themselves saying hey there's no money over here anymore like we got to do it with other stuff and it's clearly still Because you put out, what, three days before, you could literally just buy the shit for 30% off or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Direct to consumer shit.

What was the, because me and Rory were talking about that when we was in Detroit. What was the, because that's when people used to drop projects was Tuesdays. Yeah, I know. I love that. I don't like doing shit when everyone else is doing it. I don't like feeling controlled. I don't like, you got to drop on a Friday. That's when you're with a label and they're worried about like, well,

the stores turn over on Fridays, globally and you get the playlist on Fridays. It's like, dog, I don't give a fuck about that. I'm dropping when the fuck I want to drop. Right. And that cycle to be number one is easier too when you drop on a Friday. Yeah, but it's like I don't, I'm not doing this for numbers. I'm doing this for impact and ill music, you feel me? And even the $4 album and you get it a day early, that was just to break the mold.

Yeah. That was just because, dog, Adele did what, 852 week one? If she offered her album up for $4 and you get it a day earlier, she would have done $3 million. And so, but labels would never go for that because they're so ridiculously obsessed with margins and like, pleasing the partners. Oh, absolutely. It's just like, dog. Like, I'm just trying to show people.

Because I had this epiphany. It's like, I was talking to myself, I'm like, bro, you're independent, right? Act like it. Do shit that they can't do. Right. And for the most part, the consumer is proven that they'll pay for shit. Look at all the subscription we have. I have fucking everything.

Oh, yeah. That's how they're still getting us, right? Because you used to pay what, whatever it was for cable and you get everything. Now you pay 10 for Netflix, 10 for Lolo, 10. It ends up being the same one. But it's proving that consumers are going out and purchasing different subscriptions, not just going to Verizon Fios and now I get the shit. That's the only bill I pay.

They'll pay a bunch of different people. But typically people with Spotify or Apple will Apple they'll pay for. Spotify, most people do the free shit. So music for the most regard is free right now. Yeah. But the consumer is still willing to purchase shit. So I can't understand why artists aren't doing shit like that. Like, all right, you want this shit a week early?

Pay two bucks. Because they haven't trained their audience to even think like that because they themselves don't think like that. I've had conversations with artists that, like, it hasn't even dawned on them to sell merch yet. I'm like, dog, you go into Gucci and sell Gucci every day. Yeah. And, like, you help Gucci sell throughout hip hop. You don't think that you could have the same power with your own merch? Like, sell your own merch.

Like, the reason why artists can wear Gucci and Gucci sales go up is because we as a collective society agree that this artist is really cool and whatever they're wearing is cool. Do it with your own merch. Right. I mean, we've obviously seen it with Griselda and everything they've been doing. It's been cool to wear out to actual tears. But if your fans, like, if you don't have that type of audience where like they're not even, we don't give a fuck about what you got going on outside of these songs, then it's like,

you know. But do you expect an artist to know that? Like, I feel like that makes the great artist businessman that we don't see very much of because artists kind of think with one part of their brain. And that's in a very artistic. way. It may not lean over outside of what I'm doing in the booth. So is that more of a, we should be talking to their team and whoever their manager is because that should be their brain. And I've seen a lot of artists compromise their music because they are just musicians.

They're not businessmen. And then they go try to be businessmen and the music suffers because they're trying to do too much. Yeah. Yeah. Because not every artist is that mogul. And that's okay. Yeah. Like some of the greatest, probably a majority of the greatest artists of our time are not good business people. They're artists. Yeah. And that's okay. And if they went and go just focused on business shit, I don't think we would have gotten the same art. You think if you had... That's true, though.

Because I spent a lot of time, like, the last two weeks just thinking about, like, everything going on with you and your career. You'd think if you had, like, a cosine from like... That's why I said on the album, biggest rapper without a cosine. But I think that... I didn't think about that, too. I think it's... I think it's necessary, though. I would be the biggest

artist, swear to God, I'd be the biggest artist in the world if a... reputable cosine from the get-go was like, yo. Yeah. I was called the cultural hug. Like amongst my friends, it's like, when they do this to you, if you walk in the gate like this, your music gets heard differently. But when was the last time we saw that really, really worked?

That was a thing for a while. A coson? When it's been the last, I mean, I feel like what Yo Gotti has done might be the most relevant one to the cosine and seeing it work. But outside of that, is there a real cosine now that? It's not even necessarily just about the fans. It's about behind the scenes. For sure.

You got a, you know, if you got someone like this walking you around the industry, it helps. Hell yeah. Business cosign is drastically different than just the rapper. But that business cosign can get you those perception looks. Yeah. Magazine covers that make the rest of the common folk be like, oh, he is really lit. Yeah, he's really that guy.

But that's really just because you had the right dude walk you in the room. So, all right, well, then let me ask you. Because you do pump the anti-industry shit. Let's use Rock Nation just for an example. Sure. Not as a label as a management company. Yeah. Is that something you're open to compromising on to be a bit more industry

where you would get that cosigned to walk into buildings, not from a label perspective, but this is my manager now. It's like, it's funny because I've had ideas of its internal conflict of like, if it's fucked the industry, then it's fucked the industry. All the way through. all the way through. If it's fuck the industry, but I want the cover of GQ and Rolling Stone,

then how much can it be fuck the industry? Missionary fuck. It's not doggie style. And so the dilemma, nice and slow. The dilemma because I'm stubborn is I want to say fuck the industry and get industry looks still my way

just off a sheer like, come on. Like my goal is this, bro, I want to get so big just with my cult following because I know I can take this shit to the roof because I can do the hits and the raps. I want to get so big with my cult following

where it's like, you have to fuck with me. You look crazy if you don't. You know what I'm saying? Because honestly, I feel like Drake never really got a lot of industry love. You know what I mean? I feel like Drake is just at the point and got to a point.

That Wayne cosine was... The Wayne cosine was crazy for sure, but I still feel like the industry wanted to not fuck with Drake. Oh, yeah. In the beginning, I think there was... publication something like very early very very early though it didn't last very long though no yeah it didn't last long but it's like and I'm sure obviously he had any opportunity you probably

wanted but it's like I still feel like there's that chip on his shoulder where he wants to still like the media and the hip hop voice of like approval still isn't all the way there but it's like it's inspiring to me because I'm like damn if Drake himself isn't even fully embraced by the culture on some like or if he feels that way or if he feels that way or if he feels that way than dog maybe this is just part for the course well drakes was kind of all behind the scenes like where we were talking with you and cole where it was on twitter and we saw that and was part of your career drakes was i think behind the scenes before young money when he was getting turned down by sylvia rhone saying you'll never be marketable type shit and then when he really got

on allegedly the higher ups trying to stop him with the meek beef and like everyone was kind of conspiring like this new force that was in the industry we kind of have to team up and make sure he doesn't surpass us. So I think that's where Drake gets that chip. We don't see where the chip comes from. True. Like, Drake will say bars on even current albums of like, I never got love, nobody ever fucks with me.

And I'm like, I think he's the number one artist in the world. Yeah, yeah. But he's speaking from a place that I don't think we know about personally because the fans all fuck with him. He's talking about what I'm talking about where it's like he's just so big with his cult following that doesn't matter if the industry fucks with him. But he's probably still like,

how do y'all not fuck on me in the industry? I'm me. Look what I've done. Yeah. kind of how, like, my, my thing too is like, I'm not sitting here pumping poison, like, asking why don't y'all fuck with me? I'm saying shit that really needs to be said objectively, not just because I'm saying. I'm saying shit that objectively really needs to be said, like, yo, y'all should own your music.

Yo, you know what I'm saying? Like, fuck giving Gucci 30 grand. Put 30 grand into your merch. You know what I'm saying? Can I ask you something to that, though? Yeah. Do you agree with right message, wrong messenger, sometimes? I do.

And let me finish because I know what you're about to say. You would be the right messenger because you did it. Yes. You proved it can be done. I'm asking this because I've said plenty of things that have been right on this podcast. And then I look back at it and I said, oh, that's a white face saying that. Oh, yeah. That's what I was just about to say.

Well, that's like, that's the reality. So like when you get on everyday struggle and it's saying like, ha, ha, I own all my shit, y'all don't own y'all shit. It can come across like, who is this? white guy saying this shit to me. Of course. Like it's easy for him to own his own shit. Yeah, of course. I think that you have to think. I've had to come back on that a lot. Being a white dude

in black culture coming through talking about, why don't y'all own y'all shit? You need to own it. Comes off insane. Yeah. And you don't want to hear it from me because historically, I'm the oppressor. Right. You feel me? So it comes off like

the oppressor telling us why are you oppressed? Yes. and it's like there's nothing I can do at this stage of the game there's nothing me personally Russell Vitale can do about that. What I feel like though is if I'm going to make money off of black culture it's my responsibility to contribute something that can help.

I agree. So however you feel is however you feel I'm not going to stop trying to help you on and that's why I've had to check myself in just the tone and the delivery where it's like let me make it clear that my intention is to help y'all. That's always what it was

but it came off sometimes more like look at me, look at me, look at me, I'm doing like all this great shit, you should fuck with me. Yeah. As opposed to like, yo like y'all are all so incredible. Y'all stream more than me. Like, you should own your shit. You like, rapids, we talk all

this money shit. You want real money own your shit. You know what I'm saying? But like I said, from the mouth of the aesthetic wise, the oppressor, that shit is like that's cool, dog. Shut up, though. I get what you're saying, but the culture. I would be bigger if I was quiet.

That's the fact. I had that bomb on my- But you want to be who you are, though. And if that's not who you are, you know, I mean- Well, so that's the thing. Here's what me and my boy were talking about is like, all right, I know for a fact this, right? If I was quiet, and I set it on and shake the snow globe,

sometimes think about if I was quiet, how much bigger I'd be. Because it's the truth, you see the artists who come in and just shake hands, kiss babies, ruffle no feathers. You don't even know what they think about. They might be racist on the lobe, but we don't know. Right. Because you never speak. You never say anything, right?

And it's like, I could have done that. And maybe I would have been bigger. But here's the shit that would have really eaten me up. What if I would have kissed ass and still been getting shunned? Exactly. Then I'd be real pissed. Exactly. So you know what?

Then all that validity you wanted from the industry, you get it and realize it's not worth shit. And that's what I've had to like. That's, bro, the past couple months, I've been like, what does any of that shit mean anyway, dog? There's people who have covers of magazines, this award, that award. It's like, I feel like very few people have the impact I have in real life. Like, what I've done to people's minds, you feel me?

Like, what I have done to people's, I'm not talking about you gave us a couple party songs that we turn up to. That shit, like I was looking at it like this. When you die, if you're an artist, when you die, what would a fan do to honor you? And that's your legacy. I know for me, I know what fans would do to honor me. Believe in yourself and own your shit. You feel me?

For a lot of these artists, what would a fan do to honor you? Turn up? Right. The party has to end at some point. I understand. So I know at the end of the day, fuck numbers, fuck all of that. My impact, when I'm dead, it's a rap, bro. When I'm dead, this shit's going through the roof.

Because my impact on people's minds and spirit, I wrote a book of my belief system. It's cemented. How has that changed how you've approached music with focusing on impact rather than? I'm way more aware of the intention of what I'm trying to actually accomplish. I know like, because when you're younger, you're just making shit. You're just making shit. It's all like external. Yeah.

I've internalized a lot more shit now, which has its pros and cons. You know, when you're just like living externally, it's very, like, free and you're not, you're not censoring yourself. When you internalize a lot of things, you can second guess and whatever. But I really know it's bigger than me now. Okay. And I really know I have a platform and I really try to make a conscious effort to, even on a chomp too, where some of my female fans might be like, well, there's no losing control. There's no R&B shit. They got a hook on face. But I also, there's a melody of two-knit.

But it's like, but I know that they also, see, that's the thing. The women who listen to me, they aren't just like listening for the heartbreak songs. It's because I've also helped their mindset and change their life in that way. So I make sure to have those motivational bars. It's not a rust song if there's no motivation in it. You feel me? I was great to say because you said like the GQ covers and things like that, like the shit that we deem is the cool, good looks.

What do you think about, you know, and it's corny, but it's part of the culture? I don't think you've been tied to like any like famous women. Like what about that route? Like, I can't, once again, it's that same sort of thing where I just got to be me. And I never, like, I've been with beautiful women who, you know, have a follow and whatever it is. But it's like, I never was dating them so that dudes can tell me that it's cool. Well, I mean, you also rip them apart on your intro. Yeah, but it's like, he started that whole, his whole album with, yo, bitch, I've never wanted to date you.

Like you should become a better person and get some self-awareness and realize that we've never even had a meal together. But that's honest, though. Yeah, but that's no. The women just dating like the popular women? That's what I'm saying. That's like playing the game. You feel me? But I like that game.

It's cool, but it's like, all right, yo, you want to go to Nobu? And then I call Van Lathan and say, yo, have TMZ outside Nobu for in two hours. That's how I know you're not in the industry. I'm about to pull up with. Van ain't been a TMZ for 10 years. You know what I mean? Yeah, you know what I'm saying? It's like...

But not that, Raoul. Like, not that corny. But just like... No one would know is corny because what is the NNSC? Paparazzi images of you walking out of Nobu holding hands with the R&B singer. But you know what's also corny? Like seeking out a woman because she's famous and it may help my career. You know, it's cool.

Yeah, it is. Like, I want to like the girl. I can't bring my... Like, also, I just like having at least one element of my life still private. You feel me? Like, I don't know. And I just, I don't know. I do a, when I was younger, I did a lot of things for approval.

Same. I think we all do. Dating, and I still do sometimes, but women was never one of them. I never was like, oh, fuck, man. I know y'all want to fuck this girl. I'm about to put out my IG store and be like, look who I'm with. That's weird. I was, but there's so many rappers.

I know. I can still call them weird. Yeah. Oh, for sure. So weird. But it's, it's bad now, though. Like, it's bad the amount of women that, artist date like it's like the same women it's like y'all are homeboys and like he was just with her

four months ago oh yeah but i mean they don't give a fuck about that it's nasty i had a tachshmi i had to i had a take i'm at times me with time one of these like you know models popping whatever like we don't know what you like we women want to know what you like are you gay or something like i'm like see this is why this is what's fucked up with social media y'all are so entitled to celebrities' private lives that if we don't show you it, you think there's something up. Have you heard of private?

Right, right, right. How dumb and fucking, like, down the rabbit hole of, like, everything's got to be for the look, are you, dog? Which isn't even privacy. You're just doing shit to do it at that point. Yeah, like, come on, bro. If that's what I wanted to do, I would move to L.A. for four months.

I pop out at Nobu every three weeks with a different chick. She'd understand what's going on. And, like, that's the game I would play. That shit is corny. No, you're in the right city. You're in Atlanta. That's true.

You're in the right spot. Atlanta has the bad ones that aren't popping. Yeah. Those are the ones. 500 followers. Find one of those gems. Yeah. But you did say.

That sounds specific. Find the one with 503 followers? Follows 36? Listen, y'all going to have to famous chicks. I'm trying to find the least famous chick on Earth. Oh, bad. Well, you said on the intro, speaking outside of that with women, your father's twice over divorce.

You think it's a rediditary. Where are you at? That's one of my favorite bars. When you started the album with that, I was like, oh, all right. I see where this is going. So where are you with women having that mentality, thinking that I've never probably seen a relationship really work? And now I'm also, on top of that, my father wasn't famous.

She had had Instagram. Right. So where does that put you in a mind state of even thinking a relationship could work? Man. It's tough because I was. I was looking at what I thought was a successful marriage for a long time. They didn't get divorced till

25, 26, I'm 29. You know what I'm saying? It was one of those situations though where I think if my mom could have left financially, if she could, she would have a long time ago. And she left a long time ago is what I think. You know what I mean?

Emotionally. That's even where like bankrupt kind of came from. Even with my brother and like his past, like I left a long time ago. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And what it really did to my head was like, damn, I really thought that like you go through 26 years of life thinking that the arguments and the whatever is a good marriage. Well, because they're still together.

Yeah. This must just be what it is. Yeah. And then it breaks up. And then you look around and you realize, damn, all right. So now, including myself, I know nobody who has parents still together. My manager, my best friends, anyone around me, no one's got a, no one's got parents still together. So I look at that and I'm like, I love my girl, but wedding scare me.

I can't fight the force. My dad is twice divorced. Might be hereditary. It's like, I don't know. I can't say maybe five years ago I was like, yeah, a marriage would be cool. I can't say that now. Shit, I can't say that. What do I look like just being 15 like in La La Land?

Yeah. You know what I mean? What's your longest relationship then? You like a seven-monther. A lot of times Those seven months Yeah Those the ones

Me making the great songs Nah but like two years Two three years Okay So that's enough time I feel like that conversation Would come up from a girl My thing is like

Honestly I was only in like Really Like when I would be in relationships I would take a dumb series I would think that that was The end all be all You know And I don't know

It's just like man I don't know I try to just live in the present Because of the marriages That have crumbled all around me I'm just like, I don't know. And if a girl wants marriage and that's the absolute end-all be-all, and you need to know right now, I can't tell you right now.

Because I may never get married. Try to say that to a woman that loves you. Good luck. Yeah, but it's like, but you know what? It's like, see, the thing that I've always, like, been perplexed about is if I tell you what it is and I show you what it is, not, I'm not saying if I tell you we're not dating, but I'm taking you on trips and da-da-da-da-da-da. why do you think we're dating?

If I tell you, we're not dating. If I tell you you need a boyfriend, if I show you we're not dating. And you need a boyfriend. We never go out to eat. We just had this conversation. And you still, that's where that's where that line came from. There's women that I've never shared a meal with

that think we shared feelings. How do we share feelings? We never even ate. That's because you got to realize how low the bar is that. Oh, yeah. They typically talk to dudes that they can't have a real conversation with to save their life. so you have one fake deep regular conversation

the way you just speak to people that you talk to and respect and they're gonna be like oh my God I've never felt this vibe before and that's where it gets scary then you become toxic like that's just the type of person I am I'm not gonna respect you

it's like oh so I got to dog you to make it super clear I don't fuck with you that like someone I gotta do that some women only give you that alternative though where it's like oh so if I'm just like if we just have conversation we obviously there's sex involved, but you know I'm doing what I'm doing.

I assume you're doing what you're doing. We don't go out to eat. We're not doing any of that type. So it's like, all right, how does that not show you what this is? Right. And the alternative for me to make it super clear that that's not what it is is to dog you. And you don't want to do that. And why would, like, why am I, because then if I do that, oh, he's an asshole.

Right. It's like, how about you just like accept the reality of the situation or don't? The other thing, right, women think they can change your mind. through pussy and enough of it. That pussy's powerful though. Nah, but I'm saying, but it's like, that's why I said, but enough of stubborn women who be thinking they're too pretty to get curved.

Yeah. It's like, that's my bag. You're in my bag now. It's like, I understand that you live this life where you turn down, man. And the one you went after, he's like, all right, cool. And it's not girlfriend's shit for him. And so now you're feeling like,

yeah, I watch when I put this pussy on you for six months. And then his mind doesn't change. Yeah, now he's the bad guy. How's he told you what it was. Yeah. He didn't switch up. You switched up because at the beginning, you said, no, I get what's going on. Or that's all you can offer it.

I know it's not that. It's pussy. You know what I'm saying? Even if she can offer more, it's like, if it's like, if that's all I want out of this situation right now, that's the only place emotionally I'm available for right now. And I tell you that from the get-go. if in six months I still feel the same. Yeah, that's not.

That's not my fault. It's not a knock. You didn't have to stick around. I told you what it was. Hey, Rory, look, you know I'm not the astrology guy. But you know this was the conversation we had last episode, and you and DeMaris called me toxic when he's saying exactly what I'm saying. I'm dead honest through the whole shit.

No, if you're honest from the jump, then it's fine. No, but that's me. You could be an asshole with your honesty, but that doesn't make you toxic. When you lie, now you become toxic. When you manipulate that's what makes it toxic is if I tell you, look, The sky is red and you think, all, well, in the next six months, I'm going to get you to think it's blue. If in six months I still say it's red, you're the idiot for thinking you were going to change my mind. Right.

Yeah, I get it. That's why I said, running after someone who don't want you, you desert yourself. I've been told you I don't want you like that. You still ran after me. That was on you. I told you to go get a roster. No, but then women will say, but you still allowed me to like. And I allowed you to be in my life in the capacity that I told you I was cool with.

I set the boundary. If I set the boundary and you're cool with the boundary, I'm going to have to assume that you're cool with the boundary. If you're like, all right, you know what? I got too many feelings for you and I can't just keep having sex with you without any sort of commitment, exclusivity. Then that's what you're saying.

If you would have said that, right? And then I would say, well, I can't give you that. Then we go off separate ways and it's fine. And respect each other. And respect each other. But if I tell you this is the boundary, We're not exclusive. You don't have to be cool with it.

And you show up. That tells me by actions you're cool with it. So don't pop up in six months like, why are you doing this? Why you? Hold on. Right. You didn't have to partake. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like, what's your ghost game like? Because you seem like you ghost women a lot. Like, I get that vibe from me. Like, you like one of the Ghostbusters. Like, I get that vibe. Ghostbusters. I mean, just, I guess just block.

That should, oh, you block? If it's two, if it's like, yo, If it's too out of control, like it's getting too crazy. Block, for sure, block. I don't know if ever, I mean, I'm not on y'all status. I don't know if I ever had to block a woman for like going. Oh, no, I've had to block numbers, but not like actually like social media and that shit. I've definitely had to block numbers.

You block social media too? Yeah. I don't like, because I'm cutting off like all access. Oh, you're one of those guys. Yeah, once it's like, once you violated like the boundary and you did too much and you just crossed a certain. line, it's like, I'm revoking your access. You no longer can enter this club. I mean, I feel that's crazy.

I feel like my number is access to me. I've never felt like social media is access to me. That's why I've never cared to. But he's more so he don't even want it. He don't even want to see it. Once I'm done with, like, I just don't even want to see your name pop up anywhere because I just don't even like that energy. What's like a line crosser?

Like if a woman does this. Entitlement. That's where it's, that's, that's, Russ is crazy. He's right, though. Entitlement. Entitlement. If I just met you... I'm like that with everybody, though, men and women.

Yeah, same. But if I just met you, I don't even care if I just met you. Like, this music shit is what I'm putting over everything. That's how I feed my whole family. No one in my family has jobs, no one, you feel me? So it's like, this is what I have to do. And to be honest, let's keep it real. If I wasn't doing this, you wouldn't even know me to DME.

Yeah. Right? So don't ask, oh, you can't step out of this. You can't at least just tell me you're in the studio? No. What the? Why do you think I have to tell you what I'm doing and give you an itinerary? You didn't tell me you were shooting your only fan constant today.

So why I got to tell you in the studio? Especially when you're not my girl. Like my family doesn't ask me for like, you can't tell me. Like, put it like this, right? If my mom, my family and no one has ever asked me, you know, you can't like at least give us a heads up when you're in. the studio, what the fuck makes you think you, who I've known for

less than a year of my 29 year old life has any audacity? Get the fuck out of you. You're just used to men saying how high when you say jump. I'm not one of them. Go get one of those who's happy to be in the presence of a seven. Like it's crazy. I like, I like this talk. He's talking spice.

But now I'm toxic though, even though I said I wasn't. No, you're still toxic though. No, but it's just like I just feel like, that's why I love me. I put out like two years ago by Boy Wonder, produced by Boy Wonder, Because it's like, I don't think, I think men do a terrible job at handling rejection for the most part. 100%. But I also think pretty women who have been deemed desirable by the opposite sex on a large scale have a horrendous time at dealing with rejection.

Because they reject so often that it's rare for them to go after someone. And when they do, and that one out of their million DMs, like, doesn't give them what they want. It's like their whole world crumbles. Their identity is like, what do you mean? I remember I hadn't even met a chick, right? Never even met this girl. She DM me. The next day, swear to God, the next day she texts me, she goes, you know, we don't have to do all this.

I know, it was two days later. She said, we don't have to do all this like one text today shit. I was like, what? Already putting rules on it? Like, what? I was like, what do you mean? She said, you're making it so hard for me. And I said to do what?

Mm-hmm. Never mind. And it's like, because I know what she was trying to get at. She was thinking that, oh, you was going to go all out. Because you're you. Yeah. I'm supposed to be like, yo, good morning. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just like, I don't. Grand Rising. Right. Like, why? Like, why can I not also just be in, like, we're getting to know each other and not even that. Like, we haven't even met you. Right.

You're texting me for one day already trying to set like parameters on the amount. You're already feeling some type of way about something. Yeah, like, no, I'm entitled to more than one text from you a day. Says who. Right. But that's who. Back to validity. I know you're you.

Right. I'm me. I know you feel yourself, but I feel myself too. But that goes to the validity when they compare it to a bunch of fucking fake pages and weirdo avies of these dudes saying I'll fucking suck a fart out your butt. Go get them. Yeah. Like, and they be like, oh. Go get them.

Right. Exactly. But I'm saying they get their validity from seeing strangers say a bunch of shit. And that's where their confidence is built up from. and then they meet somebody in person that doesn't need to suck a far out your butt to like you. And they have no idea how to operate

because their entire validity has came from this fucking comment section. And not only that, Rory, but it's, you know, a lot of these women deal with rappers and entertainers. That's not even gender specific because I know dudes that act that way too. How do you deal with, example, you meet a girl beautiful

and she only let you hit one time and she never speaks to you again. Fire. I like this dude. Fire. I fuck with that heavy That's where that's where I just read with you I fuck with that heavy curve me

Oh you after one hit I respect that what? Nah I'm not trying to wipe you I can't take one shot I'm not trying to wipe you I don't need the headshot It's the intention

I'm not trying to wipe Yeah but you ain't trying to wife But Russ one smash We just said And she never speak to you again Why does I offend you? It's not that it offends me But it's like I got a double back

It's three condoms in the box bro I got a... No, no, no, no. I'll tell you, here's the difference. It's a... When you're, like, single living that life, when I was, like, doing all that crazy shit, right? I'm not, like, I almost want that.

I want, like, if that's the time I'm on, I'm being single, and I'm just out here being, like, experiencing women at, you know, a level and at an access point that I feel like is a blessing, like, a couple different ones, whatever it is, it's like, nah, we get together once, and then you never talk to me again,

And that's lit. I was going over here tomorrow anyway. That's beautiful. So you're not going to bother me again? You promise? I know what you mean, but I'm saying like, what if it was cool?

Great vibes. The sex was crazy. Well, then make for your girlfriend if it's that cool. Not after, we're not doing it. Not after one night. Not after one hit.

We ain't doing that. If I double back after because I thought the vibe was so great and then I get curved, is what you're saying. Oh, well, but then it's like, it just shouldn't matter. It's just your intention.

But you wouldn't want to know. Like, then what happened? You wouldn't even want to know. I got sensitive to my 30s. No, my shit was probably whack. It's all good. Live to fight another day. I'm with you on that one.

Yeah, it's like. Yeah, sometimes you just got to fuck through the pain. It's just like. But if it's good, you got to, that's like, that's like. Oh, but there's too many women out here to be getting hung up on a chick. You don't even know. Oh, no, no. Listen, you're talking to the, I'm the president of that club.

But I'm just saying like I also have been in a situation where it's like you meet a girl. She's beautiful, great vibe. I have a similar situation where it wasn't like, oh, got together once and then curve me. It was like, we have. had like a weekend in New York, right? And that's how like we, like, that was our first time. Sounds like a movie. Let me hear this.

This sounds like a movie. Snowy. Oh, man. Does Moan know her? Probably. Nah, but like, we had like a weekend in New York and she was hell of cool. And we were like snowed in. Oh, man.

Smoking blunts listening to like the marathon. Yeah. Yeah. Eating fucking Greek food and empanadas and shit like that. You know what I mean? And she was hella cool. And I remember like, I guess I just got fucking sprung for a second. We get back to Atlanta.

And I'm hitting her kind of on. So I'm like, yo, what the fuck? You're not going to tell me about this. Like, I was tripping for a second. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It happens. But then I had to catch myself. I'm like, no, you're moving how you're supposed to move.

Exactly. Right. And so then it was cool. Like, you just have to catch yourself if it's that situation where, whoa, you went into this thing. There's going to be one time. She's actually hella cool. Sex is great. Whatever, whatever, whatever.

You maybe want to see her again. But she's like, listen. I'm a whole dude, the way I'm moving. That's like when you go on vacation to an island. and you have such a good time in three days, you're like, I think I can move here. Right. I think I can live like, nah, though,

you just saw the resort of Jamaica. You ain't going to get robbed. Right, right, right. Day 17, you're like, send me old. Yeah, it'd be those, like, snowed in weekends and those random shits where it's like, damn, I met a city for three days, and I just stayed at her crib. Beautiful.

She's into the same shit I'm into. But you only saw, you saw the resort. You don't really know. Yeah. I mean, I get it, but I just think that, you know, sometimes, you know, you meet somebody, like you said, you had those moments, and it's like,

but when it just like, that's it, it's kind of like, well, damn, you just, as a man, you just want to know, okay, what, what happened? I guess it depends on how much work you were putting in prior. Oh, yeah, no, that's when dudes go crazy and start doing wild shit. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying, if it was just on some like, she DM'd you, you DM'd her back saying pull up, y'all smash, she never hits you again. It's like, who cares?

Oh, no, that's in that situation. That's all I'm talking about. Oh, yeah, no, no. But that situation can also lead to wiping it. That's crazy. That's not for me, Ross. All right, y'all are one of those people you got to put in mad work and that's going to be wifie. If I can't hit the first night and you pull up and you pull up and I hit, I'm not wiping you.

Nah, you can hit the first night. What if your vibe is just that ill, moff? Nah, we're not wiping. I ain't doing that. It depends if the intention of the message, if it was only a sex link up. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But then we know what it is. All right, but y'all are too cool.

Sometimes those sex linkups where y'all think we're just fucking leads because we both, no, no, we're just fucking. We see each other a lot because we feel like it's no strings attached. There's no pressure. There's no anything. That can lead. to me going, no, I kind of like this bitch. That was my situation. But do you like her just the fact that you just can fuck whenever you want?

But that's when I had to check myself. But that's how you get to know a chick when there's really no strengths attached. That's when I had to check myself and be like, well, of course she's doing that with him. Yeah, for sure. So then that's when you need to be like, all right, let me chill. Yeah. I like this guy, man. What borough are you in?

He was in Manhattan. Lower East Side. Yeah, he got to be Manhattan. Snowing, Greek food, Manhattan. I don't know. Maybe she had an apartment. I don't know. hotel used to be my shit, man.

Oh, man. I got some, that's where that was. Legendary nights. I could see you kind of held up in a one bedroom in Crown Heights with some chick with 500 followers in Brooklyn. You seem like the type. And Crown Heights? Yeah.

Nah. Russ is keeping in Manhattan and that's it. I'm keeping it lower east side in Brooklyn. Yeah. Yeah. And, oh yeah, Brooklyn at Williamsburg. What hotel is that in Williamsburg? There's a new one, like a new five-star boutique one, right?

The tall, the real tall one. William Vale. Oh, the Vail. That's a nice little hotel. The rooms are kind of small. You got to kind of get the sweet. That's weird, though. You live in New York.

Why would you know what the rooms in a city you live in? Very interesting. That's a weird thing that you would know. You know, a little staycation. I like to, yeah, that's the thing in my, I like to check out rooms in the city. I'll definitely use that corny line with a chick. Staycation. You want to do a little staycation?

Those are flado. Stacations are flato. No, but I just didn't want her to come to my house. I didn't want to know where I lived You romanticized the curve Yeah like that's a little Central Park West That's where I be at Yeah

It's where they film home alone It was one of my spots It's where I be at It's one of my spots Yeah She got to think you a hoe if you got a hotel A hotel spot in your city Well women know when you're a hoe

They could They know Women know We could try to hide it but they know Yeah They know So then no And move accordingly

That's wrong with you Did you think any of your chicks was full of shit when they text you and say, yo, love the album and you know they don't like rap music. They only like your R&B songs. Because they only like the R&B songs. We can get into this album because I feel like we've been talking about everything but it. Yeah.

Which I've liked and I've enjoyed. Thank you. But, uh, Chomp, too. What made it go to an album rather than the EP from the first one? To prove the point more, you know. I think five songs like, it's like, oh, I, he can like, cool. It's like this cute little thing.

He can rap a little bit. 14 is like, all right, hold on. Yeah. He's like kind of good at this. You know, it's just more, it's more confident. It's just, it drives the message home more, which what I was trying to say is that I can wrap my ass off when it comes down to it.

That's why I didn't want to produce a lot of it. That's why whenever you see the Chomp brand, it's going to be outside legendary production with outside legendary. features because it's like who do y'all think is the nicest? Let's play one-on-one. This is the closest I can get to playing one-on-one.

I get that. But did you reach out to these features with that kind of mentality? Hell yeah. Because it's definitely the rappers, rappers, rappers on this shit. For sure. But sometimes I feel like when you reach out for features,

you kind of give the vibe of what it is, not the competitive shit. Like, all right, we got this beautiful ninth one to be like approach this verse as if we're making a good record. or as if we're trying to out-rap each other. That's always what it was. Because I don't rapbers get pissed when they'll hear your verse when the album comes out.

And it's like, oh, yeah. He was going, for real. I was trying to make a good record. How much did you actually do in studio with the features? None. And here's the thing. Every single song I sent, except for the Papoose,

Papoose was the only one I didn't. But every single song I sent have my verse on it already. That's how Chomp One was. Because I'm not-honorable. I'm not stupid, right? If I send y'all just the best. or just the hook.

I'm assuming that you're not going to give me a better verse than you would if you heard me rapping for a minute and a half and how I'm spazing.

You might give me like a 16 just to like and it goes with the hook well. Nah, this was like all right like when I sent Jada kids' faith my whole minute and a half

verses on there. Okay. And he was like yo how long do you need? And I was like I mean you can go 16, 24 but like in my head I'm kind of like

I went for a minute and a half so you might want to you might want to body it real quick because I'm going crazy he sent me back at 32 and he was like man I had to give a 32 because you were going crazy and that's even how chomp one was was like I had my verses on the songs when I sent them out and I feel like that helped bring out everyone's best did you change anything you don't want to get body by Russ right I know that yeah like I know that so if I'm rapping for a minute and a half you you better come with it did you change any verses though like no hit?

Never. You can ask all of them. But did you think about it? I believe you. But did you think about it? Nah.

No one's verse made me think about it. I feel like there's only a couple people I feel like got me on the album. I feel like I got you. Who you feel like got you?

I'm trying to think who I thought. If I had to if I had to really like genuinely say who I think got me I think Crick got me. That was one of mine.

I like my punch lines more but Crit just like slid on it. Crick, his clothes. Critch just slid on it better. Ghost, just because Ghost is ghosts? I know, I feel like Conway had the hardest verse, maybe on the whole hour.

I think Conway's the best rapper right now. Yeah, Conway, like, Conway's verse is one of the hardest verses I've heard in a minute. But, no, I love my, like, I love my punchlines on that way. Ransom's verse was hard. Ransom was the other one that I was going to say. I think, Ransom was the one that made me think, like, okay, he maybe got me too. Yeah. I want you to do a remix with Ross on Blue Chip with Ransom.

You want to see that? Ross on that beat would be fucking crazy. When I'm trying to rap Ross on every beat that I get on is incredible. Ross on faith, Ross. But I would say, yeah, ransom.

I think Conway might have got me. I think Crit. I think Papuza was close. But I mean, Sean killed it. I feel like I body did. Like, put it like this. You can't say I got washed.

No, I didn't feel that. No, no, no. I'm biased with Banks. I felt Banks was- Lloyd Banks is like my childhood hero. Same. And we're around the same

maybe. So, yeah. But that's what, with this whole album, I'm 31. And if I were to like,

put together a list of every producer and rapper that literally scored my high school experience, it would be this album. Like, no, literally down to the fucking every single feature. But that's why I made it. One of the best track was,

yeah, we've probably seen. But what made me feel good about the shit, like personally was it didn't sound like 06. Like, it feels good. And I have to give a nod to you on that. It did really feel like all these artists

that have been around for over a decade and these producers that have been producing for 15 years. It didn't sound like, oh, fuck, they're trying to do the mid-2000 shit again. It's current. We're over the shit. That's what made me feel so good about this project. And going into it, like, when you made each record,

did you have this list in mind and kind of picked like, nah, I want styles on it, but let me throw on this one. Yeah, I had a list in mind, for sure. I knew I wanted the features. that's what's crazy. The features I got on it, I kind of went into it as like, that's who I want.

If I can get this compilation of producers and features, this is going to be crazy. And then like, you saying it sounds still modern is really dope because I think that for me, I'm picking the beats,

obviously out the gate, like high tech sends eight beats, Binks sends eight beats, whoever sends eight beats. I'm picking the one first and foremost that I sound good on. Yeah. like that my tone sounds going on so I can deliver my best performance.

And I think naturally it's not going to feel me because I'm me. And I do melodies and like, you know, it still has to musically feel timeless. So, but yeah, man, like I wanted, I wanted who I wanted on it. I just had an A&R like based off tones. Like when I heard the salute beat, I was like, man, West Side Guns tone on this beat, crazy.

Yeah. And then I heard styles P flow. Same with like the static selected shit. I was like, Saha, kill this. I was like, you know, else we'll kill this Lloyd Banks. But these were all like pipe dreams. I didn't know like half these people. Excuse me. Like I just- You rest out personally. Oh yeah. Solo. That's a different level of respect. Bro, that's what I'm like, I don't expect anyone to believe that, but I know for me, like what really, what I'm really proud of the most with

this shit is that I really hit these people up. No money. Like, there was not bad conversations. It was, yo, I got something I need you on, man. Like, it'd be an honor to rap with you. Yeah. I'd never talk to Crip before. I'd never talk to Lloyd Banks before. I'd never talk to J. Electronica before. You know what I'm saying? None of these guys, not none of them, because Jada Kays, Ghostface, we had connected.

So some of them I knew, but like, man, to... J.LX verse was crazy, too. Nuts. Yeah. But to have everyone be down off just the strength of... You know, maybe they did it because on me, it's mainstream, it's a different audience. It's just a good look.

But I also feel like I give them a lot more credit than that, because these are people who I respect on an integrity level. And I feel like they're not just about to hop on some shit that's bullshit. Even if there was a bag involved, even if I am a pop thing to them. It's like, nah, I barred up. I feel me? I think that's the beauty of the album. Because, yeah, you could say that and that's okay because they don't know you personally.

You're like, oh, this would probably be a good look for me. No, but younger generation. You rap. And he's rapping for real. You rap. Like, I think you put all these legends kind of in the perfect scenario ever. I don't have to change how I rap and have to look corny

trying to keep up with like the kid sound but it still sounds like now and this person is relevant with the younger generation and he's rapping so I feel a little bit better too No it's like you don't feel so crazy jumping over there even if like ghost face kills fans like what are you doing fucking it's like but when you hear

the music it's like this isn't a reach it's not a reach it makes sense it's an alchemist beat and everyone on here is rapping like what's the reach about it you feel but as like a hip hop number the same way I am. Is this your proudest project

because like the 15-year-old Russ this would have been they dream? From a hip-hop element? Yeah. Like this was, this would have, what I would have done in my bedroom in high school

if I had the way to do and I actually did it. Hell yeah, man. Rapping with Lloyd Banks? Come on. That was one of your dreams? What? There was a time, like, when I,

Eminem was like the first rapper like that like I got, you know, the bug bit me and then it was 50 cent. But then when like I was, when I discovered Lloyd Banks, Like Lloyd Banks was my favorite rapper over 50 and M. You know what I'm saying?

So getting Lloyd, I was like, man, this is crazy. Even seeing him just like post like, like, yo, new Russ. I'm like, dog, what? Yeah. I was seven. I was seven with like watching G unit. You know what I mean? So hell yeah.

One of the features that did make it, Royce, we just was with him day before yesterday. Yeah. He was still trying to rap. I feel like in the control room to, I won't say what record it is. It was a Papu song. I wanted you to say it. Yeah, it was a Papu song. I wanted Royce on it.

No, no, he wanted to get on it. Last or two nights ago, he was like, man, I might just record this shit, send it to Russ and surprise. Yeah. It's like, well, what would I do with the toast? Remix. I mean, I said remix it. I know, but it's like, I wanted him on it. I wish he would have got on it because Royce is one of those people who, like, depend, I disrespect.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. But yeah, there's always chomp three. But where you saw the risk? in this. I know I can tell obviously your passion is with hip hop, not to say it isn't with any R&B or pop or something. But I could tell where your real passion lies. Yeah. To take that risk at this point in your career, I feel like where you're at, this is the most important time to make those records that aren't this. I agree. That's where I respected it just from a personal level. Yeah. But if I was your manager, I might have been like, though, I don't know, like, maybe in

three years you could do this. Right. This is a risk. That's why I felt like it was a cool shit to do. I agree. But that's me. I'm not the regular consumer. Yeah. I thought it was really cool to do because I'm not supposed to do it. This like, I'm supposed to, you know, I'm supposed to give you all another hit. You know what I'm saying? But I got something going crazy right now.

Seduce went dummy viral and took out of 30, 40 million streams, been out for two lines. Like, I'll get a plaque off that. Yeah. So that just extends the, like, I've been keeping the tally in my head since 2014. I've put out a song every year that went and got a plaque. Mm-hmm. So since 2014, I've put out a song that ended up getting a plaque. So seduce will get a plaque.

Ugly with a little baby will get a plaque. I'm not really like that shit is cool. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But I also want to let people know that I rap. Yeah, this is personal. I'm not about to keep playing with me. The only problem I have with this is live.

Well, it's not for that though. Yeah, but like if I go to a rush show, I'm going to want to hear. But you're not the Russ audience. Like you're not buying the, you are not, the people who want to hear bars are not buying tickets to a rush show like that. Okay. If you buy tickets to a rush show, if I, if I, I buy tickets to a Drake show.

I better hear my favorite Drake songs. And chances are my favorite Drake songs are the hits. I don't want to hear too many B-sides. But I feel like when you do go for the new album sometimes. Sometimes, but it's like I'm also. I know. I'm there for bars. I want to hear.

If you're there for bars, well, see, here's the cool thing. If you're there for bars, if you're you're you're you and you come to a rush show, you'll catch bars within the hits and you may not catch chomp two. songs, but you'll show up wanting to hear chomp too, maybe hear none of chomp too, but be like, damn, but he had bars and he hits the whole time? Right. And so you'd be like, oh, okay, I get it. Because at the same time, like, I want to give, you know, a great show and I know what my fans

came here to see. You know what I'm saying. And I know what songs are, you know, my fans would be like, yo, why don't you perform this? I'm like, because it has two million streams. Right. Yeah. And you'll be looking at me like, I'm nuts. Right.

No. Is there a world where you do like one-offs of like Russ and friends? because if you look at this feature list, everyone either lives in L.A., New York, or Atlanta. Yeah. Is there three spot dates where it's just Russ and Frangian? You could fly. I've thought about like something, yeah, like that

where it's clear off the promotion and the flyer alone. That this is the album. If you're buying a ticket, it's to hear these bars. Yeah, for sure. Because I have so much music that if I just say I'm doing a show, you're assuming I'm doing the 2040 songs with plaques that I, you know what I mean? So do you think you'll ever have to get in that space? that Drake has spoken about

when people bring up like, oh, we need that classic album that's not a double disc or 18 tracks. I just gave it to you. That's why I did that. Well, no, I'm saying he feels like he can't, because he has such a wide fan base, he has to put something on an album for everybody.

He can't do this. I disagree with that so much. Like, instead of Dark Lane demos, if Drake did a chomp, I feel like that would have meant more. You know, just straight bars, just. That would have meant. And he knows that.

I feel like when he said on Scorpion, a classic is just 10 of these. It's like side A of Scorpion is chump. You know what I'm saying? Like, I feel like, bro, the freedom that I, I like unlocked myself with this project because I was like, you know what? If I do five songs, that's, you're scared.

You're scared because you're scared of, you're scared of actually jumping in with two feet and saying, nah, this is the album that I want to put out right now. you want it to feel like just some side thing that you do because you don't want people to take it that serious it's like nah I do this I do this rap shit too and look in a month

here's an R&B song with me and tied out of sign you know what I'm saying you can still always do that like the cult following that I have or a Drake people aren't going anywhere you can get the DMs all you want like nah why like where's the women songs like tune back in in two weeks right

A lot of artists don't move You in that regard How quick you move Like you did what Fucking a record Every week for three years Not every artist is like that Well but if you're scared of what the perception is going to be

Change it with the music If you want to put out If Drake was scared of like damn I'm not saying that he is like Oh well I can't do the bars thing Because I'm not going to satisfy the fans who love R&B Put out an all bars project And then literally next month

Put out eight songs in the R&B That's what I thought Scorpion was going to be by the way I thought he was going to put out I feel like Side and side be differently like at different times Two weeks apart And one was gonna be all R&B

And one was gonna be all bars Scorpion kind of felt like Chomp With the R&B Antithesis of it Which is I've always like I'm gonna do that project too I vote like it's called slide

Rap and R&B One side It's just R&B It's the CHOMP version It's the R&B version of Chomp Okay So it's me with like Brian Michael Cox

Dupree Usher Genuine you know what I'm saying? Kisha Cole. This is like, is this happening or just something you just thought about?

I've been working on it, yeah, because I want to fuck people up. It's like, I want you to be able to put Chomp 2 next to Slide and be like, all right,

this dude's fucking out of his mind. He gave us a whole like R&B thing where there's no raps on it. Me and Keisha Cole, I already got shit with Keisha Cole. Like, that's what I'm saying.

Is it all original music? I beg of you to not flip all familiar samples that we all know. Oh, for the slide? Like the old 90s. Yeah.

Nah. Just please. Nah, I want, and B Cox lives in Atlanta. I want the fucking keys. I need to, yeah.

Come on. Let's get into this R&B bag. What's the, what's the dream feature that you didn't get yet? And produced by who? Drake produced by Kanye. Just as like a, those are my two favorites,

you know. But, um, I don't know, man. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Drake produced by Ye?

Yeah. The show is happening. Or, or Eminem produced by Dre, you know. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. I grew up on like Dr. Dre drums and Kanye samples, you know.

I saw my snares be loud as fuck, but the soul samples. I mean, those are Scott Stor's snares, but. Yeah. I'm sorry, Dre. I was joking. Yeah, no, I grew up on Storrs. Dre and Kanye as far as from production, side. Highest high of making this album,

lowest low of making this album. highest high was probably getting back getting back to J. Electverse maybe was the highest high. Why? Because I knew it was the hardest one to get. You know what I'm saying?

He doesn't, and it was the most like, I don't even know if you remembers this. 2015 Santos. Of course I remember Santos. CMJ. Is it CMG or CMJ? CMJ.

CMJ. CMJ. And that was still going on. It's like 2015. Santos. Santos Party House, whatever the fuck it was. Yeah, that was Party House. And who was DJing?

I don't even know, bro. But I wasn't even, I wasn't anything yet. You know what I'm saying? I just got with Carol Lewis. She got me this, you know, I had performed a house of vans, I think, in Brooklyn. Okay. Where like Kevin Abstract and Allen Kingdom were performing.

They were lit. You know what I'm saying? I was just like, 5,000 followers. You know what I'm saying? That seems like so long ago. It was. It was. You know what I'm saying?

So like 5,000 followers and I'm opening for J Electronica at Santos. I was there that night. I don't remember you opening, but I was there that night. I was like on stage, no one knows who I am. Couple with the fact that I'm up here doing like some melody shit. And there's some bars in between. It's like, dog, get the fuck. We want to exhibit C and that's it, bro.

Yeah, like, play Exhibit C. Free bird. But it's like I didn't get boot off stage, but I can just tell people didn't fuck with it. But so I get off stage, I go into the crowd, and J.L.E.L.C. comes on. And I remember Elliot Wilson was standing behind me. And I don't even know if he remembers this, but I remember Turn to him. I'm like, yo, I'm Russ.

I'm about to fuck this whole game while I'm like, I'm just letting you know, like, I'm on my way. And Jay Electronica performed. And that was that. But it was like, like, I looked up, like, J.E.L.C. when the exhibit C dropped and, like, eternal minds of the, you know what I'm saying? Like, man. Those moments are weird because people like Elliot. and Jay Elect and everyone, obviously a kid comes to their face every single day.

Of course. Of course. But like when I, they just put, um, Chappelle's block party back on Netflix. And I was watching it the other night. And like, you could see Jay Cole in the front row. Yeah. And like, that's crazy. Like, that's crazy.

That's nuts. There's no way for you to know that this kid coming up to me right now is actually going to be something. But it's weird with those moments. Yeah. Even, uh, when we started the old podcast, walking in for like our second episode, it's on camera. Some kid named Don Tolliver was like, yo, here's my CD. Wow. On 54th Street.

Like, it's just... Is he from New York? No, it's from Houston. So he was just in New York? I guess, yeah. Wow. Like, it's just certain moments that if you capture on camera randomly, it's just weird to think. Well, that's why when you come across people like that, it's important to make sure that exchange is something positive.

That's why you just treat everyone nice. Exactly. 100%. Exactly. And I was some fucking... That's why I said oncham to... Entitling. People trying to circle back and act like that, I shouldn't slap them.

Because, like, they only love you when everything is golden. I'm not slow. You know what I'm saying? I know this shit is fickle and it's temperature-based. Right. You know, the type of women that DME when best on Earth dropped and Rihanna posted it was different than, okay, once the dust settled. Right. You know what I'm saying?

And same shit within, yo, you get the text like, yo, you're killing it right now. Yo, we got a link. Do we? Not going to happen. Speaking of 2015, and you being, I guess, one of the major, quote-unquote, SoundCloud rappers at the time SoundCloud artists. People don't give me the SoundCloud rap. Who?

What? Because SoundCloud rap got this like oozy, cardy, like, face to me. But I'm a SoundCloud rapper. Most of the soundclou rappers weren't on SoundCloud. That's the ironic part of the people that say from the SoundCloud era, they wasn't really on SoundCloud. It's like, I'm proud to be a soundbler rapper. But if anybody look at you and don't say you SoundCloud. That's my whole come up.

Exactly. That's just stupid. I don't want you to shit on them because I really fuck with SoundCloud. But I will be vocal. I have talked to them about this and I think they're making some changes now. Do you feel SoundCloud really dropped the ball with the SoundCloud rapper era? As far as what they could be as a streaming service or what they could have been as a label, a distribution company? I feel, yeah, man.

I feel, let me word this all the way right. SoundCloud provided such a necessary medium to like get to fans ASAP. Like when I was coming up, I can make a song, like I can make a song right now and upload it to the streaming service SoundCloud right now. And that's how I blew up because I didn't have to drop on Fridays. Exactly. I would make a song at 3 a.m. posted. Right. You know what I'm saying?

That was huge. Then Spotify Apple come through and make it dummy corporate where things need to be delivered and all this shit. And could SoundCloud have kind of followed, you know, ensued and just became a streaming service, became a DSP in a sense, sure. But I think even when they went to the premium thing, it kind of lost what SoundCloud was,

which was this is the home of the raw shit. It's the rattle. This is the home of where... SoundCloud is like digging, I hate you. You go here, I hate you. You go here. Here, SoundCloud is a new dat Piff.

Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? It's even more to Moll's point of digging in the crates because like a lot of the algorithms in the playlist on Spotify and Apple, even in the early days, were still label driven and still connection driven. The rabbit hole that you would go through on SoundCloud, those DSPs could never. If you find the right. Those algorithms were based off the music.

Algorithm and wave. Some of the shit I've, some of my favorite shit I've found on SoundCloud literally has like seven plays. And I was listening to something that had two million plays. But you know how much ill shit I found on SoundCloud? Y'all know, I don't know if y'all know Chelsea Cutler. She's like a pop artist. She's ill. But she's been ill for a minute.

I remember finding her on SoundCloud and she was like at college playing soccer, like in Boston, like Amherst College. Just like, yeah, I just make these in my room. Yeah. Insane. I knew like if I had a label back then, I would have, you know what I'm saying? Crazy. But now she's like a huge thing, like sold out Red Rocks, 10,000. You know,

I'm saying. I'm just like, SoundCloud. That's kind of my point. That's amazing, though. Like, I love SoundCloud. Like, that's why SoundCloud. SoundCloud could have had, could have done real business and real partnerships. Oh, you think if SoundCloud was a label. Not even a label, but a distribution company in hindsight 2020. I never tell them.

They was living in the moment, so I can't be mad at them. I don't want to shit on that regard. High size 2020. But to have a whole genre of music be called the SoundCloud era and never had done real business or partnership with those artists. Yeah. I mean, they dropped the ball a little bit on that. I just feel like that was such a missed opportunity.

I'm going to say this. And allowed Spotify app on everyone to become the status quo. Well, this might be bad business practice. So I don't expect SoundCloud to listen to this. And I could take this back in three minutes. It's fine. I feel like they should double down. And I think they have in a bit of double down on what y'all are,

which is this is where you hear I hate you by scissors before it drops. Right. Okay. Like double down. on being lime wire, that Piff. Double down on it because guess what? We go to Spotify, we go to Apple. We don't want SoundCloud for that.

We want SoundCloud to hear. We want to use that to hear the unreleased, the raw shit, the shit that never makes it. And for artists, SoundCloud is still where we can just, you know what? You're pissed at your label, upload SoundCloud. Like, still be that. Like, what sound, to me,

it's the same truth of artists with humans. Double down on who you are. Who SoundCloud is is direct to consumer. I can press upload right now and upload 96 songs on my computer and it's on SoundCloud. SoundCloud is definitely, you know, just for, like I said,

you could be playing somebody, listen to somebody that has 2 million plays and then it'll jump into somebody that has 10 plays. Yeah. And you fall in love with this record and you start sending to people like, yo, who is, you heard this record?

Yeah. And seeing, because I think Bryson Tiller blew from a hundred SoundCloud. You know, the visual, the uploaded don't. Yeah. The visual version of SoundCloud is TikTok. Because what you say You can go from a million plays

To someone pops on your page for 10 plays Yeah Bro on TikTok The amount of artists I found on TikTok On my 4U page That had a thousand likes on the video And then you scroll And then the next one has a million

Like it's like The fact that TikTok as an app Is putting artists in front of my face That have 10 likes on their shit It's amazing It's crazy Yeah I found so many insane artists

And I always tell people I'm like look I was that old dude Like mentally like, TikTok, what do I need to be on there? I'm not doing dances. What the fuck? What do I look like?

Nah. Name the last artist who blew up on Twitter or Instagram. The algorithms are simply not set up like that anymore. TikTok is a discovery app. That's where people are now getting discovered. You're up and coming artists and you're not flooding TikTok, you're bugging.

And I swear I don't want to keep shitting on SoundCloud. But when we were talking about, there's some people that should just be artists and sometimes business isn't the way. Yeah. During that SoundCloud era rap shit, podcasting started. And we all went to SoundCloud because they allowed us to use that RSS feed that put us to everywhere else. I didn't know this.

So, Mind you, SoundCloud. So podcasting really was like a big thing on SoundCloud. It was the hub. And not only the hub to go everywhere else, that's where you uploaded it. And you had this RSS code that put you on Apple, put you on Google, put you eventually on Spotify. It's changed now because obviously big business came in. but like I feel like maybe we just owe a thank you to SoundCloud because they didn't rape everybody when they could up.

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's they didn't think business. They thought art. I feel like it's just artists up there. But that's what's ill. But that's what's ill. From a business practice, it's maybe not a good model.

They made podcasting easy. SoundCloud is legendary. Oh, for sure. And the second they start trying to become something they're not is when they lose brand integrity. Be who you are. You're where artists go to get their rocks off. You know what I'm saying?

It's a space for all that other shit. Hell yeah. You have the platforms and the DSPs for that other shit. But does that kind of not go against your message of we can still be artists and independent and benefit everyone around us and not have to go into the machine? Because I feel like SoundCloud. I don't feel like SoundCloud is a machine though. I don't think they're hurting for money.

I feel like they could be up there with. But you think they should be a Spotify or Apple? Well, I think if they would have went on that trajectory that they were on. and focused on the SoundCloud era and podcasting, Apple would have ended up buying them to compete with Spotify. That's just what I think. Maybe so. But I can see that.

They could have been in that conversation. But SoundCloud is easy because they already had the fucking users. Like that's, but the users are like, Apple had to get it because we had the hardware. I'm a McDonald's loyal customer because I love the double cheeseburgers. And all of a sudden McDonald's like, well, Chick-fil-A is blown up. We should stuff just chicken sandwiches and that's it. Yeah, let them do that.

Like, Tyler Perry has this crazy interview where he says, Bougat showed it to me the other day. He said, Coca-Cola didn't change their formula because people like Pepsi. And it was the real shit I ever heard. Yeah. SoundCloud just needs to be SoundCloud. Yeah.

That's it. Just like, I don't need to go do songs over Southside beats featuring Lil Durk. Just because, like, I want to get the approval from that audience. My formula works. Right. You know what I need to do? is double down on my formula. That's all.

But don't undervalue your formula because where Apple gets ahead in the race is because Apple is based off convenience and money. They're into podcasting heavily now because I own this iPhone. They're in the hardware game. They ain't in the podcast game.

They're in the convenience game. Like the same of you brought up McDonald's. I watched that founder shit. And he said, I'm not in the food business. I'm on the real estate business. Right. So it's a similar comparison. in there, whereas SoundCloud, I feel like

had such value in the user that's going to continue to come back because of their platform. And I just felt like it was under value for what SoundCloud should have been. Listen, I'm playing Monday morning quarterback. I don't have right. I don't have right to do this. It's just a conversation. Sure. But I just feel like SoundCloud

should be in that conversation because it's meant so much to that era, not only with music, with podcasts, everything that's relevant now, everything that Spotify's dumping every dollar they have into is what SoundCloud gave us for free. Yeah.

They built it. They gave us the tools to do the shit. I'd have to think more on SoundCloud because I love what they represented and what they represent, but I'd have to think more on it to think like what could have been done.

SoundCloud, you know what they should do? They should do a festival every year. That would be hard. Hell of some of the dopest artists on the soundcloth. If they're not relevant now, that's still an era of kid. They'd be like, damn, wait,

they're on the bill. I'm going. That's genius. They need to do a festival. Then you take the top 10 artists like songs. Like if it's Remble right now, who I love Remble, like you have, he's the headline.

It's the SoundCloud Festival. Right. You, you curate it like that. You know what I'm saying? Who's the top artist? And then you filter in some favorites. Those thousand play guys.

Exactly. That's genius, though. They should do that. That's genius. Like you said, all that other shit, let Apple. See, this is what we're talking about. It's kind of what I think you were alluding to indirectly.

Like, would you ever do a show where it's just, oh, it's clear that it's bars. Yeah. It's about creating and cultivating events and moments for the sub-genres within rap. So, Rolling Loud is like, if you're popping, you're at Rolling Loud.

A SoundCloud Festival is like, just for the SoundCloud artists. Absolutely. And that shit is cool. Because guess what? You don't buy a ticket to a SoundCloud festival expecting to see Frank Ocean. Exactly.

Like, you buy it because you want to see Rumble. You know what I mean? That's hard. And there's such a big lane for it. Like, you look, and I'm just making it up, Verizon Fest, in the festival game because it's popular. Then you go to Roots Picnic and you look at that lineup

and you're like, oh, I'm going because this is my shit. It's just as big as the Verizon Fest. Nah, that shit is genius as fuck. Yeah, that's what they should do. Festival. The last question I had because we've talked about the beauty. No, I'm just on last one on my notes. Okay.

I don't have much notes. I'm not a notes like last. No, I need to get my shit off more. Rory hit me yesterday. He was like, yo, is there anything you want to talk about besides that? I was like, I'd rather not know what I'm walking into. I asked you that because I've watched some of your interviews and sometimes it looks like you coming in,

not on an agenda, but you've been thinking about some shit in the studio for a year and now finally a mic that's not recording music that's from your face. And you're like, no, I got some shit to say. I'm always ready to like bring up any topic. I probably have something to say about it. You feel me?

We talked about the beauty of independence this entire time, which I've loved. That narrative is spreading, which is amazing. But I don't think it's for everybody. What do you think the negatives of independence are? And what areas do you think people? Explain why you don't think it's for everyone. Then I can tell you because I think you're for sure wrong.

Because I think music, people have looked at music no longer as I'm a lover of music. They see something where they can be famous and profitable. Okay. So the music is the last thing. They're looking for the celebrity and the money, whatever. It is what it is. To preach independence is for everyone, that kid is going to fall flat on his face. He needs a label.

Go take that advantage. wants fame in the... He should go right for the major label. Not everyone is built for the independent game. My manager Benner had one of my favorite quotes ever that we repost on Instagram all the time. Don't write a check that your skill set can't cash. Yeah.

So everyone running around trying to be this independent, I'm independent, are you ready to be independent? Maybe it's cool that you go get that money for your family right now because when you do this independent shit, you don't have the work ethic or the know-how how to do this shit or the passion for it. So yes, go to Universal. Go get a terrible deal.

Take that advance check, get your family straight, and then you need to figure out the next move. That was great to say. It's subjective. You don't think a million percent. It's subjective because if you don't have the work ethic but you want to be independent,

that's a recipe for disaster. If you don't have the work ethic, you will fail at anything in life. But exactly. So it doesn't matter if you're signed or not. That's not true. No, if you don't have to work at it. I understand what you mean.

If you don't have to work at it. You'll fall behind some ways. Yeah, yeah. At some point. Something is going to go wrong. My opinion is this. Because I know what you're saying where it's like, take that advanced check. If, you know, are you prepared to be independent?

Because independent, you got to fund your shit. Right. My thing is this. If a universal is prepared to give you 600 grand, that's because they think you're going to make two mill. And if they're giving you 600 grand, chances are, it's because your catalog is already generating 20, 30 grand a month. And so my whole thing is if your catalog is already generating enough money where labels are talking about that type of bag,

because this isn't for the artists who are making $10 a month. And it's like when you start really seeing, but stay independent until this point, when you start really seeing the fruits of your labor and labels are willing to offer you these six-figure deals, million-dollar deals, seven-figure deals, it's because you're worth more than that. Yeah, they did.

And so, like, if you're making that money independently per month, right, 50 grand a month, that's why they're offering you this shit. Chill out for a second. Be patient. Run up this money independently. Start, you know, I always say try everything. Fund the video yourself. See how far you can take it independent.

If you feel like personally, after you, I've been making 50 grand a month independently, labels been hounding me. I'm shooting these videos. I feel like I'm hitting the ceiling. Then you know what? If you feel in your gut, you need to go make a deal. They make a deal. But at least now that deal is favorable.

Right. Because you're not walking into it with shitty leverage. See, the difference is if you're getting a deal from Universal and it's a bad deal, it's a bad deal, it's because you have no leverage. 100%. Or even you can still have leverage. It's just be stupid. Well, yeah, then you're an idiot. If you have leverage and you get a bad deal, you're an idiot.

You know what I'm saying? It's just bad business. It's just bad business. but if you are generating income to the point that labels are willing to offer you $600,000, a million dollars, it's because you're a valuable product. And you need to ride your wave for a little bit longer before you just jump ship. And you also need to define what your intentions are. Talk about that more.

Like if you were ever at a spot in your career where you felt like jumping ship. I jumped ship with Columbia July 2016 because I wanted radio. This is 2016. It's a different climate. It's a different infrastructure for people listening. It's like Apple music came out in 2015 for context.

You know what I'm saying? Like streaming, even in 2016, streaming was not what it was. Like, I remember what they want being a rap caviar, like Tuma put it in there.

Tuma boss is. I didn't even know what the fuck rap caviar was. No one knew what that shit was in 2016. So I was still looking around the game like, all right, well, I want to be a massive artist. I don't want to be an underground.

I want to be a massive artist. I'm looking around and I'm noticing where everyone who's massive has a labor. So I'm like, oh, I got to level the playing field. That's the only reason why I signed was to level the playing field. It wasn't because I needed the money because I was making at that point 100 grand a month independently. Like no, like I had produced everything.

Like I'm not even breaking off producers. This is 100 grand net. 100% publishing. 100 grand net on the master's side. Net, you feel me? So it wasn't the money. It was I need to level the playing field because I got to get access into race. radio and certain things that I don't have access to.

Now, in 2021, if I was an up-and-coming artist making $100,000 a month, would I sign? No. And I agree there. But my question was different of the artist that's not doing that. Well, so let me ask you this question. Let's do this. If you're making $100,000 a month independently in 2021, we can agree that you're not going to sign. Of course not.

That would be the stupidest thing ever. So what monthly income do you suggest them sign at? Because here's my, here's, let me just add this. If you're not even making five grand a month independently, then I don't even know if a label's offering you anything like really substantial. Because why would they offer you 500 grand if you can't even prove that you're worth 500 grand? I'm saying if a label, if you're at the point of your career where a label's offering you 500 grand, that's because you're making that.

Right. See, that's why I disagree now. Or you're worth that, or they think you're going to make four times that. I think the labels are so out of touch and run on algorithms. A&R now is just algorithm and reference. Oh, yeah, I mean, if you catch a song on TikTok that goes viral, they're trying to scoop you up. We know algorithms don't necessarily mean you're monetizing anything. It's a buzz.

So labels, especially now and how out of touch they are with actual what's really happening, what really has buzz, not what just has numbers, what has impact. Yeah, they'll give. a crazy deal based off some numbers and data. Yeah, that's a fact. For some people that just said, oh, not. The data here says right now this is hot. It doesn't mean it's going to stay hot.

And their dumbasses will invest this much money into an artist. And I'm saying, if you hear it just to catch a lick and music ain't your passion, go get that lick. No, but see, this. Because you wasn't going to do it. You don't have the skill set to be independent anyways. Get the long-term lick. See, the short-term lick is I caught a song on TikTok that went viral.

So RCA gave me a mill for. it. Cool, but you're an idiot if you think they're not going to drop you in six months because they never wanted the album. They wanted the rights to the hit song. That's going to make them a million every year. They gave you a million to make a million

every year and cut you off 18%. You feel me? So what I'm saying is the long lick is you caught the song that went viral to the point that labels are calling. Dog, put Roxanne on your own shit. Put trap queen on your own shit. You know what I'm saying? And then guess what? Now you make a million

every year. And they don't. You feel me? And now you can at least be financially free and have the peace of mind to sort of figure out your next move and navigate because you have that financial freedom where you're not stressed the fuck out

having to do X, Y, and Z. Like, financial freedom and peace of mind is something that people really undervalue. I've always been able to sort of move on my own accord because I'm, since I started making money off music independently, I have never based a decision off of money.

Just a beautiful place. Because I had it. You know what I'm saying? I was making a hundred grand a month independently before I signed. So I don't do shit based off money. I do shit based off when I want to do it. And artists a lot of times,

you know, not every good look is a good look. You know what I'm saying? And get the financial freedom. get the financial freedom the label wants to buy your hit song for a million dollars and give you 18% of it after you're recouped

you can upload the song and make 2 million and now you're in a place mentally where you're lit you feel great you'll go crank out another couple fucking 10 of them because you're lit like

imagine if I was I just think about it sometimes I'm not going to say that I think about sometimes I'm thinking about it right now if I was fucked up financially because all my shit was tied up with a label.

I think me like Mr. looking for approval, I might be on the first jet to L.A. trying to get sessions with him, him, him. No, I got to catch a fucking hit to get out of this fucking debt. And you're doing all this weird stupid shit. You're forcing it. You're forcing the creativity now. As opposed to like, dog, like I'm able to make a chomp too. I'm able to just go into the studio and do whatever the fuck I want.

Drop on a Wednesday, whatever. You know what I'm saying? And chomp two costs me $300,000. during $50,000 out of pocket. You know what I'm saying? I got a billboard going up tonight in Times Square at 8 p.m. 60 grand for the hour.

Is that why ours got pushed? Yeah. We got replaced by Tom 2. We were supposed to go up this week. No, but it's like, it's like, duh, like artists don't understand y'all are the nucleus. Right.

We're the nucleus. The whole industry revolves around artists. The music business, though, was set up for everyone to get rich except the artist. You got to think if a lawyer gets 5% If a business manager gets 5 And a manager gets 20

That's 30% off rip Who the fuck you're telling? 30% like let's really break down the math though A million dollars comes in You think you're lit Oh at 300K out of here Fuck the 30% The taxes is where you're living in.

Well now so you're getting taxed on 700 grand Depending on where you live Let's just call 40%. You know what I'm saying? So now we're talking about Uh, two 80, so three, 420, you have 420K left after 700,000. Mm-hmm.

So you netted $420,000 on a million dollars, and it's like, dog, like, I'm telling you, bro, please, artists, I just encourage every artist watching. I really want to make sure my tone and my intention is clear for the rest of my career. I understand that, especially with hip-hop, it's from a place of the powerful and the powerless. Right. The labels have the power. The artists don't have power. And 60 grand is a ton of money to anyone. And it just feels like it's a good thing to do.

Man, I promise you, if labels are willing to meet with y'all and offer you certain kind of money, it's because you're a product worth investing in. And how about this? Investing yourself. Waited out for another six months. I know that shit is like, I understand that I don't understand some of your situation.

Right. Excuse me. But I do understand that. if you make your bed, you're going to have to lay in it. And you can't say it's a bad deal just because it was a bad deal for you. Artists who signed bad deals for who? The label. That was a great deal. Right.

Of course. Label did great business. You know what I'm saying? So it's like if you just know what you're getting into. Like I see these artists who catch these TikTok songs or whatever and I'm like, why would you sign? Like I'm looking at seduce right now for me, right? dog I've made

I mean it came out September 24th I've made 200 grand off that you know what I'm saying I spent zero dollars on it we made it in my basement Capella pulled up to the studio

you know I'm saying it's like beat was 20K you feel me it's like you know it's like own your shit artists are getting so fucked with these royalty percentages

they're getting 18% at best you know how crazy that is and here's the other thing that's crazy. No, it's nice. Here's the other thing that's really crazy. Me and my boy were talking about it, right? Music is one of the, like, correct me if I'm wrong,

if y'all can come up with something else, then go for it, please. But what other product do you know that, besides movies, that the budget for it might be $250,000 to make the album? You sell it for $14. What other product is the cost of goods more than what you sell it for? Like when I sell merch, right, the t-shirt might cost $6 to make. We sell it for $30. If the t-shirt costs $30 to make, we wouldn't sell it for $2.

It's a losing game. Right. You go to the, you know, if you got to rent studio time, you might spend $2,400 in the studio for a 12-hour, 24-hour session, 4-G-1-Mix-and-Massert. You're $6K deep. 20K for the beat, $10,000, whatever. You're $30, $40, $50,000 down the hole, and you sold this on for a penny. You know what I'm saying for a dollar? It's crazy. It's not set up for y'all to win. So it's not us. You know what I'm saying?

And I just found an alternative solution, which is at least own it. You know what I'm saying? The pay rates are still fucked up because the cost of goods are more than what you're actually selling it for, but at least own it, dog, because you're telling me

not only is your product being undervalued based off the cost of goods, but you don't even own it? You're getting 18% of an already fucked up. up rate? What do you think about all of the artists that sold their masters and their catalogs, like the dream? It depends on what their intention is.

You know what I'm saying? If the intention is, you know, I'm trying to take care of my family right. Like, we don't know the situation. You know what I'm saying? If it's like, I need to take care of my family right now. Shit is like fucked up. And if I get a $300 million check right now, you know, I have people in place that can kind and make it stretch for a couple generations,

then like you quote unquote secured the bag. You know, I like the idea personally of being able to hand down masters because I feel like that's longevity, you know. But I'm in talks right now, not that I'm doing it. I just want to know the number so I can rap about it. That's funny. No, for real.

You're not lying here wrong. No, for real. I just want to know, I just want to be able to say like, just turn down 100 mil. Yeah. Yeah. Because my catalog is crazy because I have more songs out than everyone. So when that whole shit was happening.

You know the multiples, right? You all know the multiples, like how they do it. It's like whatever your master's per year is making, it's like you multiply that by 12, let's call it. And whatever your publishing is making you multiply by 15. It's some around there, 10. It's an equation for I get to the number. And that's what they give you, right? I'm like, dog, what?

Right. Like, we're talking like nine figure check. I'm not taking that for shit. But so I was on the same. I just want to turn it down and suck the around. I want to, is it 107? Right. Is it 98?

I just want to know what it is. I could turn it down. When that whole shit happened, I was on that page. I was like, why would Dream want to do that with his catalog and his publishing and his writing credits, production? Like, that's crazy. And I had somebody that was involved with everyone that was selling it. And he broke it down a little differently to me on that capacity. He's like, all right, if I could get $300 million for my family right now, I don't know.

we've seen music go from $10 down to one penny per song. When I die, who the fuck knows where that's going to go? And who knows if my family at that point is going to know how to run down to get what's owed to them for their masters. So if I get 300 mil right now for my shit, I kind of set things up yourself. I think my family's going to be a right for a little while. Instead of trying to guess after I'm dead where music is going to go and if my family is going to know how to go get that money that they're owed for the masters. And I was like, oh, fuck, I get that. And that was the perspective that, like, one of my best friends had with me, too.

Like, because I instantly obviously was like, nah, fuck that. I'm not selling my master's in it. And he was like, yo, he was like, really to bet on you. He was like, another perspective is bet on yourself. Right, always. Meaning, you, Russ, they want to give you 100 mil for what you did in your 20s. Hmm. You don't think you can double that in your 30s?

I was about to say, yeah. Can't do a whole other catalog? What? You don't think you're that. You know what I'm saying? It's like, and then you're like, oh, that's interesting. And then also what you're saying. What if music goes down on pay rates and now Dreams $300 million catalog in 2021 is worth

$20 million in 10 years because of the rates and shit? So it's like, it's something to think about, but man, I'm just with ownership, bro. Yeah, I'm about to say you stand firm when that, and I like that. I can't like. And you know what? I'm blessed to have received a lot of money through my hands where I can kind of wrap my head around what I would do, even with $100 million. Like, I don't have a lot of these, you know, I don't feel like I should be judged

for it. I don't have a lot of philanthropic ideas yet. Maybe I haven't met the right people to be inspired. Yeah. I haven't, I'm not ashamed to say I don't have those philanthropic. I'm going to cure world hunger. I just don't, I'm not privy to that type of shit. I'm not educated enough to like, whatever it is.

I'm not there yet, right? So I've done everything that I wanted to do financially. My mom has her houses And everyone has a car And everyone is on salary And stipends everyone's lit You know what I'm saying I look at $100 million

I'm like I would spend $3 million of it And be like I can't believe I don't own these songs anymore Mm Because I realistic Like people who have never had money

Look at $100 million I would like Yeah Dog You would spend even five or seven Yeah And be done with your bucket list Yeah

And to be sitting there like, fuck I don't own that no more. All right. That's not even my shit. Let's go back to your merchandise thing and your t-shirt. And again, I agree with all your independent shit, but I'm just trying to create conversation

of the other side where there may be value and not owning everything. Once you sell a t-shirt, you don't own it anymore. So what's wrong with some things? That's an ego thing at that point. No, I don't even own anymore. No, I got my value of what I did.

You get paid off that t-shirt, though. So you're saying after I spend $3 million, I'm going to be like, damn, I can't believe I don't own this anymore, but you still have $97 million left off the value of what you did. So yes, you don't own it anymore, but you got the value worth for it.

So that to me is kind of like an ego. I don't possess it anymore. And art, for the most part, is not to be possessed. But it's a little different with that, but because you sell one shirt. Also, from a business standpoint, it should be possessed by a label. But from a business standpoint,

I also kind of look at it like, all right, if you give me $100 million, right for my master and publishing catalog i try to break that down like how long would it take me to generate a hundred million and i'm like all right if between my masters and my publishing what i'm grossing a year let's call it 20 million right all right it would take me five years am i that impatient see a hundred million is crazy when you don't get money right when you're getting money, you realize that that's maybe just five years and you need to chill the fuck out. You know what I'm saying?

And you also have everything. Like, that's what I'm saying. I had it like, it wasn't even a thought of considering it. It's just like, because I know what I would do with the money. And I know that like, okay, in five, even if it's 10 years, I would have grossed that 100 mil. The difference is they own that shit perpetuity. So after five years, let's say in five years, here's the other thing

and bent on yourself who's to say that between now and five years I'm not the biggest shit in the fucking world and now I'm making 40 mil a year and that 100 mil was a fucking

you lowball I'm not gonna bet on that like I'm not gonna bet on that like this is my peak I'm me right you feel me so now I'm like damn

if I could just wade it out you know what I'm saying like in five years passes and I'm like man, now I'm making more than $100 million. Five years of past, I'm making more than $100 million

as opposed to, damn, they own my shit forever. Only for $100 million. Nah, that's crazy. To own somebody's catalog forever only for $100 million, if you might make a billion? How much is Michael Jackson's catalog made?

How much is like... Ask the Beatles. I look at my... I see right. You want the Beatles. No, other way around. Other way around, yeah. But I look at my catalog

and I'm like, I got $3, 400 songs. I'm going to have a thousand songs out in five, seven years. Yeah. Come on, dog. I'm betting on me. Right. I appreciate that.

Yeah. No, I get that. It's a tough. It's a tough. But it's a case where you're at. Yeah, it depends where you're at. It's like a Bob Dylan situation where he's like, dummy older and shit. Yeah.

Sold it for 400 mil. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. Because at that point, you're kind of at the end of your career. Whatever you're making is kind of probably the peak. Yeah. Like, I'm 29.

I feel like I'm still on the up and up. I feel like I'm not at my peak yet, right? So whatever number you're giving me right now, I feel is a low ball. Right. Because I bet on myself. Right. Bob Dylan, whatever number you're giving him,

it's probably, you're probably overpay. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's what it is. So that's different, but I could, you can't tell me that you think my catalog is worth a hundred million. I think my catalog is worth a billion dollars. But that's the beauty of your arrogance

that people hate in the beginning. Yeah. Keep you at this mentality. That's why that's your, It's valuable. I thought this shit is right. But not everybody is. Here's the difference between you and I in this conversation.

Outside of me just playing devil's advocate because I think it's good conversation. I don't want us all to agree because that's corny. Yeah. You have motivational speaker energy. I have realistic energy. So you think everybody could be you. That's not true. Not everyone is going to put the work in that you want to put in.

The skill set that you put in. That's what you think. But that's not true. Now to me, now to me some people That's not a good idea It's subjective It is. All right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, mo and I But you think that be, you think that being independent is objective?

Is subjective? Yes. Dependent on your, come on. But depending on your situation. Like you said, if you need the money right now, you got a sign. I'm never telling a lazy person that they could go be Russ. I'm never telling them that. Question, if you're an artist right now getting offered half a.

million dollars from a label, chances are it's because you're making some good money. Right. You shouldn't tell. Or chances are you have a lick in the algorithms and now is your time to cash out and move the fuck on. Well, shit, if you have a lick in the algorithm. It's like Wall Street. You sell now.

Get out. Go sell. See, but see, what you call realistic, I call self-doubt because you're saying that if you have a lick in the algorithm and Warner's going to give you half a million for it, you should take it because you may not get half a million independent. Oh, no, whatever you're looking is that got you there only. But after that, no, because you're not going to do another. I'm saying if you own the lick,

dog, you will make more than half the million that the label's giving you. This is where we're agreeing and disagreeing. Yes, that first thing that gets Warner to want to fuck with you off a TikTok, do not give Warner that TikTok or whatever that is. Well, that's the only reason why they're offering you the 500K. But you got to say at that point,

no, you can't have that, but we can do business moving forward. And I'm telling you the label. That's when they hit you with the, the label is dumb. The label's dumb. Like, people, everyone thinks labels take advantage of artists, which is extremely true.

But labels are also stupid as well. You could be somebody that right now has never thought about making music once in your entire fucking life. You could be in your room with a MacBook and make a hit record and have no plans on doing that ever again. Oh yeah.

And you could go to a label and say you can't get that record but moving forward, this is my passion. Give me a deal. And then fucking take your money and leave. That statement reminds me of is Zach Fox. Y'all know Zach Fox? Yeah, like this dude from Atlanta

is just like a funny guy and like just I felt like started making like songs as like a joke, but they're hard. And I just feel like if you're a label, I just picture like a white dude and a very tight button up who plays softball. He works at Atlanta. This will be good for our urban audience.

He works in Atlanta for sure. They're like willing to give, you know what I'm saying? He's probably like, because these labels think every artist now can be Lil Nas X and that's not the case because Lil Nas X made a joke record that turned out to be the biggest record in the country. Of all time.

And Lil Nas X is a talented dude and very self-aware of what's going on. Not everyone's Lil Nas X. But the craziest story, I fuck with Lil Nas X. So do I. So do I. No, he's nice. I think he's fire.

That's most favorite artists, especially that video with Jack Harlow. I think he's, I think he's an incredible artist. I also admire his fearlessness. Same. Immensely. What's crazy when Old Town Road was blown up. And maybe he sent this DM to, like, tons of people. I go to like, follow him and like, sometimes just like me being me,

if I go to follow you, I just go to look at someone's page. I go to the message. just to see if you ever DM me. He had DM me before Old Town Road came out. All caps, sign me. No. Swear to God. On Twitter.

Swear to God, I'm not lying. Yeah. I was like, fuck. But, yo, that's the same shit. That's the same shit that you going out to Elliot Wilson and going, I could have had the biggest song ever. It's the same thing you're going to Elliot. At Santos, I'm going to fuck everything.

I'm going to be the guy. But you know what? It's like, what I'm really proud of is that you were even willing to DM me that. That says a lot about me. Absolutely. That you tapped in with what was going on. That you looked at me like that. Yeah.

And like I said, maybe he sent a mass DM. Well, let me check. Let me check my DMs. Let me check my little nods X DMs. I'm about to go through my shit now. Sign you, okay, what you got going on, kid? Nah, but yeah. Is that something you see,

especially for everything that you- We started the label. Yeah, me and Booie started the label. Diamond, do it everyday music or nothing. We actually just signed our first artist, which I found him off TikTok. Okay. And he's bar-heavy.

Super bar heavy. Only rap. You know what I'm saying? He writes songs and melody shit too But I'm saying like TikTok isn't just to like find the next Melodic catchy thing I found this kid and he's fucking

Bro, the rap's are crazy I'm starting to see that With like the quick content With rappers like with what La Russell was doing And all that shit I feel like these quick clips That IG and TikTok are doing There's bars that are in here first

La Russell because you said it's meant to be The Russell's who he signed Oh y'all signed him Yeah Oh you saw a Russell? Yeah Then y'all got one. Congrats, man.

Yeah. Not because I found him on TikTok and I knew what time it was. Yeah. The rap's like, but the fact that you just said that. Because that's where he killed. But that's what I'm saying, but it's like, that's what I mean. When you're just rapping hard as fuck and you're saying potent shit. Relatable shit.

And the content is digestible. That, that dude is a genius. You know what I mean? Oh, for sure. That dude is a genius. For sure. So, yeah, we got a situation, man. He's incredible.

And I'm just here to like. fund you and get out of the way. I was just about to add me. And that's all it comes down because I'm an artist. Right. I know what's going on. Give me money and get the fuck out of the way. So that's all I would.

Like, dog, here's some money. I'll get out of the way. You know. So with everything that you preach and now that you're starting a label and signing artists, obviously I know without even asking that you're not going with the status quo of bullshit music contracts. But how do you put your message into your label and the deals that you do with your artists moving forward? They just have ultimate freedom. They own the masters.

It's, yeah, man, it's like, I mean, I would be such a ridiculous piece of shit to turn around and kind of go against everything I've been saying for my whole career and turn into the label owner who offers shitty and like, nah, we need creative control. Dog, give me some money. I've never seen that before. Yeah, I'm about saying that feels, that feels familiar. Bro, because it's just like, no. As much as, like, as much as, you know, like, creatively, oh, I want to be involved or whatever. Let me see this one, Roy.

This is good. It's a good one. I don't want to give them an ad. But this one's good. That you busted that one off already? It's over. That's why I fuck with wine. Because he fuck with wine.

It's hard to find people that just fuck with. You get 28 years old. It's just something happens. Savian Blanc takes over your life. 100%. No, but with artists that I'm signing, it's like, dog, I know what y'all need. y'all need money and y'all need time

and y'all need resources. But realistically, I'm only signing artists that I feel like the art is already there. You just have to consistently do it and have peace of mind to do it. Right. Meaning that's the big part. I'm telling you, so here's money so that, bro,

this is a crazy story. It's super short. But me and Bugis were first like, he was getting his studio equipment, my best friend, it's like 2010. We go to a guitar center. One of the employees at Guitar Center tells us something that has stuck with us forever

because Boogis is co-ceo of the label Diamond, right? The Guitar Center employee tells us make money to make music. Don't make music to make money. And it's so true, it's like, yo, La Russell, any artist, like, if you are on your shit and you own the means of your production,

you got the studio already, da-da-da-da-da. Yo, you just need money so that you have the monkey off your back so you can just create freely. And when it comes time to like, yo, I'll actually want to put 10K into a video then rock out. But I'm not even for the, yo, let's dump 100K

into non-organic ad spends and shit like that. Nah, this is going to take time. But that's what the money does. Money gives you time. Because a lot of people, if eight months pass and there's not making any money, they pivot. Now, music isn't

for me. Nothing's shaking. Nothing's working. dog, here's 100K to tell you otherwise. Right. You feel me? Now go away for 10 months. Go get a spot in Atlanta, LA, shack up for eight months, make the best music of your career. And now because you're with me and you got a manager that's lit plugged in, now we can move accordingly. You feel me?

But you need that time as an artist to freely create. Absolutely. And that's the beauty of having the label owner that's the artist and the business manager. I was saying the moguls don't really exist, the ones that did the art and or the business guys. That's what makes them so important because they know I've had that $100k budget and I watch 70 get spent on marketing that didn't fucking matter. So I know when I

now sign an artist, let's figure out where these marketing dollars makes sense for you. Not for the same shit that everyone did in the label. The best marketing is always just good art. See, this is what I'm saying. How did y'all find La Russell? Because, uh, Hovane.

The music though. Yeah, absolutely. Like, what sold you on it? Hovane sent it to me and again Hovane knows I send him stuff he sends me stuff Shout to Ovan's my guy I like stuff he sends

don't like stuff he sends and vice versa He sent me La Russell and I liked it Yeah Everyone does when you hear it You don't like it You don't like

He was saying it was straight to the point He has a tone He's so unique I talk about a lot When you, when certain artists That it pisses me off I didn't say it Yeah

It's so simple It's that shit It's like when comedians say shit, you're like, why don't I think of that shit? I could have said that. Like, that was such a simple joke. All of his lines are like, dog. I could have said that. And I actually thought that before.

Yeah. And he laughs at it. Like, it's almost like he knows he's that good. That's the genius. He says it and he laughs like. Because he has simplified the world in his lens so well that he seems like the least confused person ever. You know what I'm saying? Which makes me think he's mad confused.

But it's like, it comes off just like, damn, bro, you summed up. this really complex thing as like, do that little dance you're doing. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. He has little tricks in the stuff he does that'll resonate the shit you want to repeat.

I'm really happy to hear you signed him, man. Clear tone. Because I had a conversation with him about a month ago and he was telling me some things personally that he was dealing with. And I think that that kind of helped with what he was dealing with. Bro, I'm always bet on artists who are ill.

And like the position that I'm in right now, while I have money and like what come on like let me if I can't show y'all what I mean by my music I'll show you what I mean by people's music who I bet on like no this is how I feel

this is what I think should be going on the Russell yeah like La Russell should be going on right now For me it's La Russell and Mez King Mez I like he's the one from North Carolina Yeah yeah

I think those are two of the most like I thought he's a dream of him I mean I don't think he's a officially with Dreamville, but he shot there. He directed that video, and that was the first video he directed it. Oh, he was the director. Yeah. But mez engineers, mess raps. He does everything. He's just one of those genius minds,

bro, like in a super, super solid person. La Russell's like nipsy, bro. La Russell's literally like his brain. I just see so much of myself in him, too, and his name, come on, my name's Russell. Right, right. Artists are so corny. It's the most people.

Little things like that, that would like this guy. I'm just a man. No, but it's like, how would I not? Right. You know what I'm saying? No, but it's like... Can you explain my point better with him? You have it.

Drake has it. La Russell, right away I heard it. That clear tone where you can understand everywhere very easy. It's conversational. You get it. Soon as you hear. The first time you're here.

It feels like it's conversational. It's also the type of beats you pick. Hove has it. I think T.I. was the first artist in the South, obviously outside of Andre. You could clearly hear everything that they're saying. That's tough. It's the type of beats you pick.

Cole has a pick. Minimal production. A lot of people are overly produced, you know, because producers are too, no, not to Jalilu B's. I love Jalibis, but I'm just using that as an example of, like, a lot of production going on. Yeah. Trying to give a story over, but, do, that, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. It's like, it's hard, because the beat is sort of the main character.

Right. You know what I mean? Like, that's why I always tell people, like, if you listen to my catalog, you may not even think that Russ is an ill producer, but if you heard the beats on my computer, you'd be like, oh, shit. And it's because I don't pick what I'm going to make a song out of as far as what are my best beats.

I pick what am I going to sound best on? What can I deliver my message on the best? Losing control is not a crazy beat if you play the beat by itself. What they want is not a crazy beat. But I sound the best song. That's my pocket. And that's what being an artist is

instead of ego lifting. You're in the gym. You're lifting up 100 pound dumbbells. You can't. Relax. Pick up the 50s. Same with artists who go into the studio and they get played 10 beats

and the first eight beats they hate, right? Because maybe they're not hard to them. The last two beats they love, but you don't sound good on that. Go get on the beats you sound good on and you'll be able to make a better song out of those than the ones where the beats are hard as fuck. That's the difference between R&B and rap.

I feel like people play beat packs and rappers try to get on the beat they like the most where R&B we build around what you write and what you're singing. Go in there do some melodies. Let's just put a guitar lick. Let's just put some. drums and then we'll build around what you're doing.

And I think more rappers need to do that shit. But I think that's why Chomp 2 sounds sounds incredible because I'm always approaching music from the ear test. It has to sound good. I have to sound good on the beat. And even who I decided to put on the beats, like, Mazzi sounds incredible on Enjoy the View.

Papu sounds incredible on bugger. Jada Kid sounds incredible. Like, because I know what I'm doing. I produce. And you know what I'm saying? Like, I know what I'm doing. So it sounds Hounds incredible. I didn't just say, this beast hard as fuck,

y'all gotta get Jada kiss on this. Right. Why? Right. You know what I'm saying? But that's a difference in being and having a producer mind though. You see the complete picture

before it's even done. Yeah. And so you're looking at it through a different lens and a different scope. Yeah, because you have that picture already done in your head

and now you're just trying to. You're just not to fill it in. That's why Kanye became Kanye. It was funny when he went on drink champs and said that he used the backpack areas. Like, I didn't even like that shit. I was just using them. Because the backpackers would look at all these beats and let me tear this shit up. Kanye was looking at that. Like, let me make this most palatable.

Right. Let me make these beats that y'all, that Black Star is rhyming on, if I made this palatable, these beats are crazy. Right. But I'm going to make it easy to listen to. Yeah, digestible. And that's where he took backpack into mainstream. And I love him for it. Kanye's super conversation. It also comes down to the flow. like La Russell's flow is very you know what I'm saying I'm saying

I was a good impression actually You know what I'm saying Like it's very like You get it It's digestible It's not To put it with the woo pad To the voopette

Nobody really talks like that You know what I'm saying It's like It's conversation That's how my shit is You feel me It's like Like on fucking faith

When I said Thank God that I never had to pop a pill To have pop a pill It's just not not the real I do me y'all. I'm not giving, like, I'm not doing the crazy internal rhyme scheme, which is hard as fuck. When I get, if I want to get in my rap bag,

I was going to get Tech 9 on the shit too. He was going to get on Bucket Hatlow with Papoos. And I was prepared to go nuts. That was the one I would have rewritten my verse, like, or added on like, boop-do-boop-de-bap-du-bap-da. Yeah, I would have gone crazy. You know, because I can do that.

But as far as what's digestible, it's nipsy flows. It's J-Cole flows. It's Drake flows. Like, it's that fucking. If they don't know your dreams and they can't shoot them down. Right. It's just you digested.

You get as soon as you hear it. You don't have to keep going back listening. Because it sounds like, because I'm talking to you. I'm not rapping at you. I'm talking to you. Right. And that's where I think the real quote unquote hip hop heads get the shit fucked up. Like Biggie dumped his rhymes down.

His flow was more important than his metaphors. Like Biggie made it easy for you to listen. His flow was consistent. You could understand every word he was saying. You knew what he was saying. But even Pac was hella conversational. For sure. His shit.

But his shit, like, he was really like, he was talking to you. He was talking to you. Like, his shit was so like. He's a lyricist. He's an amazing artist. He's an amazing communicator. Yeah.

Same with DMX. For sure. These people are crazy communicators. Like, and I feel like if we're, if we're on the mic and we're putting out music and we're using our vocals to impact the world, you have to be good at communication. You know what I'm saying? You got to be good at being able to communicate what you're trying to get across.

And I think the really impactful hip hop artists are really great communicators. If somebody never heard of Russ, and this is their first time hearing about Russ. Play voicemail. Voicemail. Yeah. It's hard as fuck. That's like when people say, what's your favorite song you ever made?

I just always say voicemail. And why is it? It's my epitome, I guess, of like the perfect rap song. The beat is hard as fuck. It's a crazy-ass, like old 70 sample with hard-ass Dr. Dre type drums on it. The melody on the hook is incredible. It's a hit-sounding melody, but the content of the hook is real as fuck.

And the verses have bars on them, but it's real-life bars. It's just like everything I want. I get to know you instantly. And the beat's hard as fuck. You passed my airplane test. My airplane test is I always listen to new music on the plane. No, you saw him at TSA.

He passed that test too. I was listening to the project when we were flying to Detroit and flying back. This is a really good. project man thank you man this is a really really good good project like I was surprised I mean I know your talent level yeah that wasn't a question but just hearing everything the track the sequence in everything the production yeah the bars it was

like this project is really really solid all the way off thank you yeah because sometimes when you finally pull some shit off it don't work because you wasn't supposed to pull that off right that's no that's when you pull some shit I was like I can't let pull this off yeah you should be whack you hear you like oh yeah that's why I pulled it off because it was whack yeah exactly that's a this is a this is a this This chomp too is really dope, man. Thank you, man. Really, really fucking dope.

Hell yeah, man. I'm just like, for me, to pull it off independently, fuck independently solo. Yeah. Like, that's what I really mean by independently. Like, my manager didn't hit anyone up. Mm-hmm. I was hitting these people up.

DM, like, man, to pull this project off off of just DMs and techs off the strength of me being me, that's the shit I'm most proud of. But that's what I think was so full circle about when we started this conversation, you were talking about everyday struggle, and you was beefing with, other writers and all these people that you wanted validity from.

Yeah. This should be the validity. These were all the artists and producers that you always wanted to work from. You got the validity you wanted from. I know. I know. But you know how we are, right? We want what we don't have.

Of course. That's human nature. I got the validity from who I want it. But how come y'all don't fucking say? What about you all? That's just the hamster wheel that will always fuck is up. But you know what? It's one of those human nature things where if I wasn't ambitious and if we weren't

ambitious as humans as to want something we don't have, we would never develop. But that's my biggest fear of being someone that is so ambitious and fucking psycho in their own brain every moment of the day is the fear of settling. I was going to tell you to play it. I want to hear more question. Also, to what you're saying,

I was reading a book the other day, the realest shit ever, that whole idea of like ambition, not being able to be grateful of what's going on around you. That's my biggest floor. Watch this. Well, not my biggest flaw. I'm out to give the whole world a quote from this book.

It's not a bug. It's a feature. Explain more. If it was a bug, right? We look at it. I look at it like a bug sometimes. What's wrong with me? Why can't I just be happy with what I got?

It's a feature because if I was so content, happy as a pig of mud with what I got, I would never get more. I want it all. It's a feature to be dissatisfied, bro. That's how I feel. It's development. Nature's meant to grow.

I'm not enjoying what, like, the shit I was working for. I get, I don't get to enjoy the shit that I... Yeah, it's like the whole... The journey is important. Of course I know the journey is the most important part. Yeah. But at some point, we have to appreciate the finish line.

Because then I feel like we don't even go into the next journey with the right mentality. It's like the salary you dream to getting is now the one you're starting off. Like what am I actually working for? Yeah. Ambition. It's insatiable. So I'm not even really working for that end goal at the end of the day at all. There is no angle.

Oh, start this from the top. Turn this music up too. Please. You hear these. Is this a... Can we turn the speakers up? Yeah, it just might feed into the mics. That's why...

It sounds great on the... Oh, okay. Yeah. I've been calling trying to gather. Who do you? You, yeah, yeah. Feeling lost and I don't know what to do. So can you get back to me?

Can you get back to me? So can you get back to me? I'm calling it guys leaving voicemails. you're there I need a tar before my voice fails before your boy bells because they be taking all the fun away I'm listening to say goodbye to Hollywood and run away I guess be careful

what you wish for right you say the truth and they come at you with pitchforks right I'm in Copenhagen over thanking every single this is this is La Russell That's why I relate to it bro It's that conversation on shit Yeah I swear none of these men's I just get the stress off guy

Sometimes I swear I want to get the gun and lead off guy Aiming right in my enemies Make the devil obey me They're trying to kill me Can you blame me For the thoughts I have lately I know it sounds crazy That's why I call daily

Please don't betray me God can you save me Pick up I'm in calling Trying to gather Oh do you You see I'm saying It's like

The fucking beat is crazy as fuck The hook is saying This is me leaving A voicemail to God I was in Denmark And I wrote this You know what These drums remind me

Of 50 when it rains the forest That's what I'm saying I'm from that, I'm from Get Rich at I trying. Yeah, you feel me? That's how crazy I came on. Family issues make success, but this week. Sometimes a cold shoulder is the only way to deliver heat. That's the, sometimes the cold shoulders are the only, come on.

I hear you. Hey. That'd be my favorite thing when you're in the studio with a rapper. YANGs. I got to give you out. I got to give you all awareness. Y'all got to get some awareness. When you sit there and listen, they got the speaker super loud.

And they're trying to hear. And now you get it in my ear. Like, no. You hear what I said? I'm like, well, I'm trying. I'm trying my best than I'm doing. But I'm like, dog, you don't hear. I said sometimes success is bitter sweet.

Sometimes a cold shoulder is the only way to deliver heat. That's the situation that I'm in with my dad. Me and my mom dip quick. No one lives with my dad. Yeah, sad, but he brought it on himself. Last time we talked, we didn't talk. We just yell. It's crazy, man.

That must be a white New Jersey thing. Just yelling? Because I totally relate to that. I will because we're getting the the wrap-up thing. I feel like you're one of the more self-aware people I've met in like a quick amount of time. We just met today, but you know you compete

when someone is pretty self-aware. I know you've thought about how you're going to age in hip-hop. And we've watched a lot of artists look kind of crazy trying to age in this shit. And then we watched a lot of artists know how to age beautifully. Where do you see that plan? And if you don't have that answer, that's fine. I have it, yeah.

I think I was. I knew you had the answer. I think I was, uh, he thinks everything. He's not going to. I think, um, I think indirectly, I think that's kind of what made me corny to a lot of younger artists was that when I was 23, 24, I was already kind of coming off so serious about the business. And, but I think as we all get older and, you know, I'm about to be 30 next year.

It's like, I think it might be time to get serious. about the business. I've been serious about it though. So where how I'm going to age gracefully and it is starting the label, you know, more CEO type positions, equity situations, you know, where it's for the artist.

So I feel like anyone who knows is like educated on my career could probably assume where I'm going to go. You know what I mean? I feel like you go look at a lot of other artist's careers. I don't know if you could really, like, where are they going to go? If you're just a party rap guy

Your fans are going to grow up Yeah That's why they can't party They're going to have kids And wife That party rap shit is cool But I'm cool on that Yeah

Party rap ends bro The party has to end At some point And I never I never seen one artist I never looked up to one artist Who was a party rapper That could just make party records

But they wasn't a party rapper Every artist I look up to Can make them But they're not a party rapper You know what I'm saying? Every artist I look up to who I feel like are the goats are, we feel like we know them. You know what I'm saying? We know Jay-Z.

We think we do. We know Kanye. We know Drake. We know Drake. We know Nipsey. It's like we know Cuddy. We know. You know what I mean?

Like we know DMX. We know Pock. We know Biggie. It's like you feel like you know them. I don't want to just hear about how many bottles you have in your section of a car. That shit is cool because 15-year-old kids think that shit is cool. Right. But those kids grow up.

You know what I'm saying? And it's like, Adele says some shit in that Zane Lowe interview where she's like, if everyone's making music for 12-year-olds, who's making music for 30-year-olds? Right.

Yeah. And hip-hop is so young that we don't know what the landscape looks like when Drake is 50. When Cole is 50. You know, we've only really seen like Jay-Z age.

Obviously the Big Daddy Cains and then KRS-1s are older, but I'm saying, like on a mainstream, mainstream, mainstream, mainstream level, it's like, we're just now

seeing the Mick Jaggers of hip hop. What happens when we're 40 years from now in, I'm 70, you know what I mean? Right.

That's why I think you get the Nause Life is Good album. That's where I think you get the whole 444 album. Yeah, and you gracefully age. And that's why I think

it's important. But you don't feel out of touch, but you are not trying to be young. But that's why I think it's important for artists like Jay Z and Nas to keep this shit going because y'all dictate

where this runway is. You know what I'm saying? and the fact that Nas is aging so gracefully sonically, same with Jay-Z. It's like, it's important. I don't want to hear Jay-Z do party rap, unless it's a black-tie party and it's that type of fucking sound.

But I don't need to hear Jay-Z on... You know what I'm saying? I don't need to hear you over a future beat. You feel me? Like, do you? You know what I'm saying? I think there's a lot of value in just playing your role.

If you're 22 right now and you're popping, B-22 and poppin. But also understand it's what Jay-Z talked about in that other interview, the white-hot space. That white-hot space ends at a certain point. Like,

the most valuable currency in rap is being new. Yeah, oh, yeah. This genre is the only genre that does not celebrate longevity. No, because you're old. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

You're old men, way. Like Mick Jagger's cool. Bon Jovi's cool. You two is cool because they're old. Yeah. If you're old in rap, you're whack. It's because rap is. based off the youth for like a lot of it.

Which is beautiful in the same regard, but there's a way for it to age too. I think that's a testament of just the newness of rap. I feel like when we're 200 years into this shit, it'll be cool to be old and rap. You know what I'm saying? But I think even with the new media shit, like with the Wu-Tang show on Hulu and like telling the- Greatest show ever, dog. It's fucking phenomenal. Greatest show ever.

But I think that's a new way with hip-hop adapting into what's going. on with media and streaming and everything, that's going to help age it as well. And that's what I'm saying. It's beautiful. It's such a good show. I'm just like, I wish we could talk for fucking five hours.

Like, I'm here to do like a couple things and that's it. And as I get older, I like sort of have a clear understanding of my purpose and it's to make as much meaningful music as possible and put it out as often as possible. That's it.

That's it. Because I understand that it's just about impact. It's about that shit Tupac said, you spark the mind that changes. That's what it's about. That's what I'm doing it for. I never looked at music like a hustle. I was fortunate enough why I didn't need to look at it like a hustle.

And I understand that I don't understand the lifestyle of people who, nah, this is just a lick. But for me, man, I'm trying to just be great. I'm trying to make great music. I'm trying to have great messages that if I don't have a hit on radio for two years my fans aren't going anywhere because my lyrics are tatted on them. I saved him from suicide.

A lot of this party rap shit that's going on, like if you don't keep one of those in rotation every seven months, we forget about you. And like, people can't, you know, if anyone's like, oh, Russ fell off, was I ever on?

In y'all's eyes? I don't know if I was, I've never been like here. When Rihanna posts me, that was the close as I got. But, like, it was still sort of like, yeah, whatever. You know what I mean? Like, and I love that.

I used to get mad that I was never really, like, amongst. I kind of, what I'm starting to accept is I'm starting to, John Mayer told me this. He said, take your coat off. You dropped something, by the way. How you just dropped John Mayle? John Mayer told me. No, you got it.

I dropped the shit as that. John Mayer. Like, okay. I was with John. Who just has casual conversations with John? I've never even met it, but I've, because I've dropped that line before. Because it's really, really, really insane. Like, I said, how do you balance that one foot in, one foot out?

You know, I'm still like, I live 24 years of regular life. Right. I didn't get on until 24, 25. So, like, I'm four years into this, barely, you know? So he was like, take your coat off. And that should just, like, like, like, settle in, dog, sit down. Like this is really, and it also reminds me.

I like that. Take your coat off. It also reminds me of like Tyler the creator had this interview where he said he was at this party and he was just, I guess, feeling like awkward or whatever. And Denzel came up to me and was like, stop acting like you don't belong here. And I think that's a really tough transition to sort of to go from not being on, really trying hard to get on, getting on. getting on and sliding and slinking into the role of like I'm not going anywhere

because naturally you're very feral like you know like when you see an animal in the wild their eyes because any moment they could die that's how it feels like when you first get on any moment this shit can fucking be over with but you have to define here like Denzel saying here is he talking about where they actually were

or don't act like you don't belong amongst all these people because the way you're talking about validity your track list you belong here. You belong in a hip-out that matter. You actually do better than a lot of people. I just know that they're like different.

I'm the person that I feel like the industry doesn't want to clap for because they feel like which I get because I'll say this. You're anti-industry. Well, it's not even that. I clap for myself. So I feel like, right?

And this is what's fucked. This is like on a deeper level, I think, with people in general. People I think innately want clap for someone who isn't clapping for themselves because we want to feel responsible for your confidence. Of course. And if we see you don't fuck with yourself, Bo, you can do it. You can do it. As soon as you start fucking with yourself, we feel like we're not needed. Oh, you don't need me. Oh, you feel like you don't need our applause. All right. Right. That's why I said on distance.

It's just like, you know, which one are, success or struggle, which one are you choosing? They hate you when you winning, but roof you when you losing. It's confusing. And that's what it is. And it's like, so I feel like if I would have did the tail between the legs, happy to be here, like, no, like, I'm really just, yo, I appreciate everything. That's how it's set up, though. Everyone would have been like, we want you to win so bad, dog. You know what I'm saying?

When I was working at labels, that's not me, dog. I used to tell artists, fuck y'all. I saw artists when I was working at labels, I'm like, yo, you got to make everybody in this office feel like they're important to you. Yes. Like, I used to tell, when I was at DevJ, I used to walk artists that had just signed and meet everybody, like the assistants in every department.

And granted, there was good people and was all that. But that was the system of no one's going to work for you until they feel like they're needed. Yeah. Which. That's 48 law tolerance system. But it still shouldn't be like, come on. The liner notes in the CD booklicks that we had with all those thank you names of I mean, they were all your family,

but the people we didn't know. Like, it was all these thank you to a bunch of names we didn't know. That was so the label felt like they did this. People, everything is run off ego. Of course. On both sides. On both sides.

On both sides. But everything is run off of how good can you make someone feel about working with you and rooting for you. And that's where... I can't help that I grew up on Kanye West interviews. Right. Some of the best ever.

Like Kanye West, was, you know, before he ever put shit out, talking about I'm gonna get a number one debut album, if it's not that album, it's the next, like, I just feel like, also Jay-Z said in the Elliott-Wilson shit, like, I didn't do this shit to be number two. Right.

Like, and I could fake humble. Who said that? Was it Kendrick? Who said fake humble to get y'all to fuck with me? He has a record call Humble. I know, but it was someone who said, I can't fake humble to get y'all to fuck me was like Drake or one of them

one of the big three but basically it's like if y'all think Steph Curry walks on a court and doesn't think he's better than everyone on the court you're on meth he wouldn't be step curran you know what I'm saying now but I don't get arrogant from you though I don't get arrogant from me either I get I just think I'm better than everyone

and I vocalize it but why don't you though right like but because I vote like the reason why I vocalize it is to get people to fuck with themself. Right. Like, I vocalize it on some,

if little old me thinks this highly of myself, right? You got no reason to think you're not ill. So, like, my confidence should inspire you to be confident. It shouldn't offend you. And if it offends you... We talked about that earlier. But that's what I said. You can't change that album.

That's what I said on nothing new. The shit you hate about me is the shit you hate. It's missing in you. You're soft. But that's also, I forgot what Kuali interview it was years ago and outside of political shit, they said anytime someone calls Kanye arrogant or feels like uncomfortable around Kanye,

that's an insecurity in their own stuff. They hate how arrogant he is because they don't feel that way about themselves. They hate that they don't love themselves like that. You ever met someone where they were so confident and sure of themselves that it agitated you? Yeah. That's happening before.

Just like in general. I tell the truth, more would just be too cool. No, honestly, I've never. That's never. No, but I'm saying like, it could be a second it's not in totality you might have an off day

yeah that's what I'm talking about yeah you might have an off day where you're like you're just not feeling yourself like that all the way in that moment very you know and it's if you're trying to push it on me like on some you start talking like down on me type shit

that's when I'm like hold no no no not not talking down it's more so like it's more so like damn this person's hell of show of themselves and hella confident and it has you feeling less than because of your own bullshit

because you're not there yet with your own self and I ask questions which you're projecting your insecurities on somebody else and what that comes down to is like that should be inspiring to you not see I would always take those moments like I'm a feel myself that heavy too one day most people do

who do you think you are feeling yourself like that but that comes from a place of I don't feel that way about myself and how I'm going to deflect on it is make you the villain. Like, oh, like, what's wrong with you? Like, what you're doing? And that's why, like, that's why the artist consumer relationship is toxic because... It's the most toxic.

Because artists benefit more when they're broke and going through hell. But I... Because guess what? It's a great point. Most consumers are not financially free and are going through hell. Like, why do you think miserable songs, heartbreak songs? win. Struggle songs win because most of the world is struggling and miserable. So that's what's so fucked up is that being an up-and-coming artist, you got fans who root for you.

I can't wait for you to be on. You deserve so much more love, support, money, credit, whatever you want to say. Then you get all of that. And then they tell you, come back. Don't forget. But it's like, but I thought you wanted me to get here. Oh, no. You wanted me, you just wanted to have some sort of territorial stake in the ground that let me know that you see me. But you really didn't want me to succeed because me succeeding infiltrates on your sense of self. But is that okay though? Because they're not your friend.

They're not your family. They're a consumer because I've been one of those people. That's what I've been. I see an artist go through something. and I'll be honest, it'll be certain times of artists that I know take pain and put in the music and make, create great music. And I see them go through something publicly and I'm like, oh, we're about to get a good album.

And that's very selfish because that person's really going through something. It's not affecting my life. You don't know what I'm looking for a benefit out of your pain, like, which is a very terrible thing. We do that all the time. But that's, that's the consumer thing. But all right, if they are showing, if they're showing up for you and paying,

there's still a consumer at the end of the day. And you could even, dare I say, if they're showing up for you in your pain, there may be the realist consumer. If we want to get that real, you know what I'm saying? Like, if they're only there when shit is lit when you win the World Series, okay, you could be like, I'm really happy that y'all are at least happy I'm winning. But aren't they realer fans? If they're actually there for you when the heartbreak came, the depression came,

even if it's for their own selfish value of, well, now I'm not so alone. But that's, see, that's a weird comparison. And because, no, I'm going to tell you why it's a weird comparison. I'm going to tell you why you're weird. I'm going to tell you why it's a weird comparison. Because you have to realize you're in the music business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And because the business you put out is your personal life.

Yeah. You can't compare it to the Yankees that when it's like, Doug, we're here for a business. We spend this money. We need to go to the World Series so we can get everybody. We don't care about our core. We don't want a core fan base. You think we want a core fan base? Right.

Don't want nobody here when we're losing. No one shows up. So you've got to go to the World Series. True. And that's the weird part of music. You're selling yourself. It's the only business. It's not a T-shirt.

It's not here's the T-shirt for the price. I pay $6. It's 30. Here's the transaction. You wear it. Bet. We want to pay all this money to bring this athlete into our team

so we can get to the championship so we can get people in these motherfucking seats and get advertising. Yeah. There's no real emotion to it. you in the music business are merging the two because you're selling yourself and your feelings. You expect the consumer to act like they're your friend

when you want them to act like a business transaction. And you can't, your catch 22. I see what you're saying. Like you have to pick a side. So yeah, no, that person is like, no, listen, I only like Russ when he goes to the World Series. No, I don't care about the team when they're not winning. You can't get mad at them for that.

That's what I'm saying. I want to watch my team. I want to watch my team do something. sad songs. And when y'all not doing sad songs, I'm not coming to the game. I'm out. I'm out. Bro, you're spot on. I agree with that because it's like, look, this is what I want to get out of you. I want to hear the depression songs. That doesn't make me, and that doesn't make me less of a fan. It just means I'm a fan of that style of yours. And when you're doing that, maybe that's for them. And I think, I think you're right. I think as artists, we think everyone is like, you know me,

like, you know for what I'm going through? It's like, don't we don't. And then, and then, we don't. And then, And at the same time, I watch artists when they go out in public, be like, yeah, why all these people think they know me? And it's like, don't. Like, you got to pick a side. But I will say this. I will say this. The realest shit you could ever dress up as is yourself in the music business.

And I think that the artists who don't wake up and have to put on a costume and sort of like act a certain way, they have the most longevity. Because I feel like I can just be me. and that's enough marketing for the day. You know what I mean? Which is a blessing, by the way. Yeah, because I never went into it like, I'm going to wear the same haircut

with the same glasses and the same. You know, it's just like, yo, like sometimes I'm with my French bulldog and like I have glasses on. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? I'm on the same with my multipoo.

I want to see it. It's like there's a pro and con to that. The con is like, I'm not that mystique, Frank Ocean where like I blow my nose and the world stops. Right. Because like, did he move? Wait, does he have sinuses right now?

Oh, Frank? Yeah. Because I like to, I would like to know. That's what I'm saying. If he does, I think we should all stop what we're doing. Frank Ocean opened that gay club and we never heard from him since. You know that shit profiting crazy. He opened the gay club?

Right before pandemic. Oh, yeah, he was DJing at a club. He was. He was. I thought it was. I thought it was DJing. Frank Ocean is so bad. No, he's one of grace.

Especially off your message. That okey doke-doke he did with Def Jam to put out two albums in one day and they didn't know that he put out two albums That's the most legendary shit ever Oh hell you I feel like it's a movie for that I feel like somebody has to write that movie

Frank is different man Frank is a genius And I saw this interview he did Where he was talking about Like his best melodies are just the simplest ones It like rings in my head Every time I'm in the studio to be honest Because if you're sitting there trying

Trying to come up with the melody It's over with How much of an overthinker do you think you are What? What's the, on a scale of one to 10? 35. Yeah, I can see that. 35. What I recently started doing, so I have this project that I'm working on that I'm like six

songs deep. I just, the studios in the crib by engineer myself, I can make 20 songs in a week. You know what I'm saying? So I got this like thing I'm doing called Unlocked. And it's just the most free expression. I'm just, I really did it after watching the whole Wu-Tang show. I went and downloaded like a real. is a drum kid online.

You know what I'm saying? I'm just like, yo, let me just fucking not even think about what I'm doing. First snare that sounds good. First everything that has,

boom. First sample, that sounds good, cool. Don't write shit down. Get on the mic instantly and just punch. Do two lines out. Say the first thing

comes to mind. I got like six, seven songs like that. They're crazy. And they're the most fun I've had in the studio because I'm not thinking because I'm just saying shit.

And it's fucking awesome. Other than that, yeah, man, I fucking overthink everything because when it comes to the bars, yeah, bro, I'm about to sit there and think because I'm trying to write crazy shit. Like, I'm trying to come up with schemes that are crazy. Like I said some crazy shit on the blue chip shit that, like, you can't just freestyle that. Like, what I say? Deladon, my game's ill. Limes with tequila or the heat to this J. Will. make skills appear like magic

Pass. It's like Deladon has played sick for Madlong She has Lyme's disease, right? Deladon, my game's ill Limes with tequila Or the heat to this J-Will Make skills appear like magic The heat to the J-will

Is the lighter to the J-will Make skills appear But Jason Williams play for the heat Make skills appear like magic Play for the magic I can't like, you know what I'm saying That's like I got to sit and think about Schemes like that

Yeah shit like that You know what I mean like New York Knicks fame So she's deep throat Then my D rose Then her knees broke I'm the G-O No bullshit Like I can't freestyle that

Yeah If I could I'm the goat My favorite shit Is watching rappers Rapers rap their own bars And smile I love me You know who's the number one person

That does that Hope Hobbe saying his shit And you could tell Hove is like Oh I like what I just said Oh I love my bars on this shit Is he?

Oh yeah I love my bars on this album Hobo is the number one That'll repeat some shit And he'll be like Conversational Raps With Punching lines like because I don't like just straight punchline rap like that.

I'm too old for that shit now. Yeah, because I feel like I don't learn that much about you. Yeah. I like when it's sprinkled in with like... Showers are still there, you still got it. But that's why I like you choosing Banks for that record. Oh yeah. Because if you've seen where Banks has been his career right now, he's not the POK anymore.

He really did. Banks going to tell you about his life. Yeah. So him going on the beat that you picked when that came on, I was like, oh, thank God. His shit is crazy. Now Banks, Banks is by far one of my favorite rappers ever. I like when I hear like everyone that sent their verse and I'm like, I can just tell y'all

still active. Yeah. There was no rust detected. You know what I'm saying? Like. Sahai's verse I love too. Yeah.

I want to Sawhis. He's one of my favorite rappers. He said, fuck it. He said crazy shit. Yeah, he's one of my favorite. Pissed under your pillow. Try to kill your dreams. He's like, come on, dog.

It's crazy. Sahai owes us some music. He doesn't owe us some music, but I want some fucking music. Yeah. He hit me the other day like, like, man, like people are going

crazy about my verse like it's about it's time to put out the album i got a crazy song on sahai shit for real i'll play with like the camp bro oh my god i fuck with sahai man it's hard like whatever man he's insane but i body that shit too all right to close it with some controversy name a rapper that's trash that you want to be with like come on say who's whack come on give us something this entire conversation was amazing we did no salacious shit which i love that's the No, the women's shit will probably bite one of us in the ass. One of us is getting a text. Oh, well, we pod every other day.

So we're past, we get in the ass every day. One of us is getting in text. No, I don't like, man. I was definitely a dinner one time and Shorty's friend brought up Russ. And I was like, he's not here. Why you said his name? For real? Well, on some negative shit or some positive?

No, on some, he beat. Yeah. For real? No, I don't know. I wasn't with him. You were fucking with Chey or I fucking with? No, I was not. I was with a girl that I was fucking with

and her friend, which mind you, like, we was talking about, like, cancer or something. Yeah. And she was like, and then I dated this guy of Russ. I was like, whoa. See, that's making tricky, right? Hold up. Hold on you. They're lying on you.

I've never dated none of y'all. Like, hold up. This is what I'm saying. You're saying I've never dated any of y'all, like all of y'all. None of y'all. I've not, if. Russ, you dated somebody. What is, okay, hold on.

Let's get into that real quick. Listen, we keep talking. Hold on. If your man's with five, I'll see her for another two hours. I'm chilling. Hold on. Hold on. We've got to get this straight.

Let me, I'm just pose questions. Okay. If I've never taken you out to eat, have we dated? I mean, to me, no, but to her, she may still think so. What are we doing besides going out to eat? Yeah, nah. Methamphetamines. Oh, no, I definitely said I love you on those.

If I have never shared food with you. and you think we date. You're crazy. And you have never seen a room outside of my house other than the kitchen in the bedroom, methamphetamines. Yeah. She's probably never seen you sober either.

Yeah, probably not. I went through that roller decks in my head. There's chicks I've known for maybe 15 years on and off that don't know me sober. I've only called them when I'm drunk and they've only came through when I was drunk. No, no, no. These ones that, like anyone who could,

Because I know. Like, you've never met, that's, in 15 years, you've never seen me in the daylight and not drunk at 3 a.m. Sounds like you have the problem, buddy. No, no. Yeah, that's tough. That's, that's a, that's a you thing. No, no, it's not. I'm not saying it's a constant thing.

I'm saying, like, throughout 15 years, like, I'll see her twice a year. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. It's just that type of time. Yeah. No, no, if it was consistently for 15 years that I was drunk, no. I'm saying, I see you once or twice a year. Every December 23rd, I'm late.

You've only seen me at that time. Like that was crazy. Like you really can't say you know me. Like, you don't know me. Like, I never dated anyone. So you never had a girlfriend, like a legit girlfriend? He said two years, he put a bit in. Yeah, no, I had girlfriends.

But I'm saying, like, anyone that's saying that is... After the deal, it's a dog. Yeah, they're out of their mind. They're trying to claim shit that's not theirs. So you got to understand that if you fuck a girl once. You tried to holl at me. And you had some type of status. Oh, they're going to say...

They're going to say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you hold it. Like, it's sad. Honestly. sad. And she probably at dinner was like, oh, he's white. He must be a Russ fan. Yeah. She thought y'all was going to connect on that. Yeah, like, oh, damn. This is my end. Imagine being impressed at a girl when she fucked the dude. Like, that would impress

you? Oh, my God, man. There's weird dudes like that, though. Like, wait, you fucked them? Like, hell on. It's the dudes who are really on some approval shit. Like, man, if thug fucked in, I'm wet. I'm on the same level as him. Yeah. That's a crazy fucking mindset the hat. That's a sick-ass mindset. It's the dudes who put like their self-worth in the type of pussy they can get. It's tough, bro. That's why I stick to Savian Blanc by my business.

Yep. I'll be in my salt cave. Demaris is going to kill us. I don't know how to wrap shit up. This was an amazing conversation. No, this is one of my favorite combos. This was definitely one of my favorite conversations, man. Like, yo, I'm huge fan of your talent. Thank you. And Chompu is crazy. Yes. If y'all, if you haven't heard it, get it.

What's your favorite song of Chompu? The joint with, um, Hmm. That's a good question. Damn, it's still early. No, favorite. I've had this show repeat. I should be able to have.

Off red. The joint, I love the melody that she was rapping in on, hold on let me pull it up. I think, I think note to self, note to self specifically not only the record of just what it meant from,

we just talked about high school era. Yeah. This was blog era of putting hit boy, Sean Waleigh and Joey Badass together. Yeah. on that, like that record meant a lot to me in the time I grew up. It's like one train.

Exactly. And hearing that now with all of them and where they've been at, that was a thing. But I like sheep and I like Hustl's Freestyle. As much as I love the features you put on here, I did like the records. It was just you chilling. Bro, I'm telling you something about me and Jake One

is like special. Jake 1 is, yeah, I love this. He did sheep and Hustler Freestyle. It's just there's producers that I have. have like a really special pocket with and it's like Jake one is just one of those dudes where I'm like I could make a whole tape like I got female songs over lock you a one producer for a whole because I got like female records over Jake one productions that aren't out because Jake one is so talented he just makes it's just my pocket

you know what I'm saying it's like when you meet a girl and like y'all just kind of like on the same way it's like that bro anything he sends I sound good on yeah you know and and even nothing new is one of my favorites it's not my favorite but why you think people don't Ask Gain to be featured on their records like that. People are sleep on game. Game's discography is untouchable. Game is one of the illest rappers ever, ever. I don't give a fuck what anyone's talking about.

He name drops nonstop and he's still the illus rap. When we talk about music and raps, we're not about to sit in and act like the game has not delivered. When's the last time you heard a whack game verse? When's the last time you heard a whack game album? Literally. This shit he dropped two years ago? What was his most reason album?

You know what I'm talking about? Game? It wasn't the 1990s. The one where the cover was like in the studio and a bunch of like women with the pregnant. Oh, born to rap. Born to rap is phenomenal. That shit is insane.

I laughed at the Ed Scharing intro, but other than that, that shit is flawless. Bro, like that whole shit is crazy. And the album covers insane. Yeah, album covers nuts. But no, born to rap, Game does not make bad albums at all.

He's like. And no one, he's incredible. I feel like he never does features. When I saw that, I was like, oh, a game feature? You never see a game feature. That was one of those crazy ones where I was like, yo, game would sound crazy on this. Because it's high tech.

I know high tech did like documentary shit I'm like man let me hit game I go to DM game on Instagram he had DM me three years ago with his number like yo hit me blood I was like what the fuck did I miss it what's wrong with me?

Is that why you rap like seven blood references on this album? Nah it was only two blood references He flipped that that line 10 times Nah it's two times One of them was crazy though A couple of homie's love When I invested in some crypto

I like that one And the other one was Mama Seaside. I wasn't mad at it. Yeah, come home with his blood, but I put my mom in seaside. But then I was like, he could be talking about, he's from Jersey, putting your mom in seaside Heights. Jersey ain't really that fly. Nah, like, put my mom in seaside. Like, I don't know that.

Why you did that to your mom? Really? You think that's cool? I don't know. But not, no, please, chomp, too, check that shit out. I'm not mad at. I know rappers run around all the time, album of the year. I'm not mad at that mark in the year.

plan on this one. I just think let's have that quick. Why do we have to wrap up, right? We got 20 more minutes or does everyone have somewhere to be? Damaris' mars in here. It's like when my grandpa, ass is on fire. What's happening? Name another rap album that dropped this year that has just more high quality

wraps and production on it. I don't think there's one that has as many high quality raps. I think there's albums that Cole shit has high quality raps. I would definitely put cold up there. Whose album has more high quality raps on it? My commie shit I really loved. Yeah, my comedy. It was crazy.

The West album that... Which one he put out? And is Gibbs putting his shit out on this side of the year? Gibbs didn't want to rap, man. I know Gibbs, you don't fuck with me because of, like, Twitter back and forth. But Gibbs came up to... He'll deny this because he's a Twitter guy. But Gibbs came up to me, like, five years ago.

I was in Santa Monica at the hotel next to Casa Del Mar, shutters on the beach. me and my manager were eating inside in the booth Hitler wears Hermes Gibbs was with his Gives was with his girl at the time I don't know if it's so I don't know his life

he was with his wife girl whoever I'm sitting in the booth He was with a person He was with the person A human I'm with yeah A specimen I'm in the boots with my manager

Gibbs came up to the booth And sat down It was like yo I fuck with you Here's my number That was like five years ago 2016 Okay So now

I know he doesn't fuck with me. Why? I missed it. You and Gibbs beef. I didn't know that was the thing. Because I think I posted a beat saying I'm bringing soul samples back. I was just like making a beat and like producers were like laughing at it.

Freddie Gibbs added into the commentary of laughing at it. And I'm like that's one of those situations where it's like, dog, like one year a little too old to be like laughing on Twitter about other artists and shit to like. But Gibbs do funny Twitter shit, man. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. And then when academics and him were getting.

Add in academics was like, I made more than you and you're a rapper. I found that comical. So I laughed on Twitter as well. Why can't I laugh? Oh, see, I didn't, okay. I didn't know it was an L-O-L. No, it's a lot of you.

It's a lot of L-O-Beefe. It's a laughing, but I didn't think it's an L-O-L-Smiley face. I didn't take it that serious. I'm just, you laughed at me first. I'm laughing at you. Should be fine. Yeah. It's that rap ego shit.

Nah, but it should. Like, y'all want to give that first. You don't want to give that first. Yeah. Yeah. You LOWL. So now I got an LOW. I hit him and I hit BDOM.

I said, I said, tell Freddy to come rat. Yeah. Didn't want to. So it's like, I don't have a problem with Freddie. No, Freddy is, that's the homie. You just laugh at shit. I laughed at you too. And you got to realize Freddie on Twitter is really having fun.

He's not being serious. He's never being serious. Me neither. I was like, come rap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get what you saying. You know what I've known. You know what I've known.

You let him know like your fan. Anyway, come rap. Yeah, yeah. You and Freddie would get along. I already know. When I met him, he was cool. I don't have any problem with Freddy. I wanted to rap with Freddy because I think he can rap.

But also, like, I heard him say something where he was like, I don't rap with people I can't relate to. So I get it. Like, you're not going to relate to what I'm talking about, maybe. Even though I feel like I'm talking about motivational. Yeah, well, it was. It came off sort of like, unless you're doing street rap, I'm not rapping with you.

Oh, no. And Gibbs, I mean, of course Gibbs does street rap, but he can rap about. Alfredo wasn't totally, yeah. I think I'm giving him more credit. then he gives himself. I'm like, dog, I want you to come rap because I think you're just ill at rapping.

But if you want to be like, you know. Freddie is crazy. He's crazy. All right. Well, then so we can really close. I would have bodied you though. Name a rapper you could not outwrap but you could knock out.

I got to get that. I can outwrap anyone I feel like on my best day. That's not what I asked. I've been training for a. You heard my shit on enjoy the view. These hands, elbows and knees Three days a week For rappers, who think is sweet

They get beat I know Fuck the drama Not cathesbian alcohol Plus there's always Straps around Like lesbian house pose I didn't just ask

This question out of nowhere I listened to the album And you brought it up I don't want anyone to know Our festival safe Is the world safe Now that you out here You're taking advantage

You regret any of that shit? Hell no They deserved every minute of it Okay, I respect it I think like I think at the end of the day you know, if you are using your platform to mobilize your fans to sort of

take down my castle and don't fuck with him, don't even give him a chance. I'm going to use my platform to get y'all to not fuck with someone else. It's hands. Why would it not be? I'm taking care of my whole family.

I understand it. I understand it. And it's like the weird thing to me with some of these people. I guess regret is where you did it. Because you did explain that. I understand. It's your livelihood. But where you did it. What?

What? Publicly? Yeah. And at a place that compromises your livelihood. Because you did it at a festival. And you know anytime rappers fuck up at festivals, they don't get booked for festivals no more. No, he's just taking on site.

It's on site. Yeah. It's all. Like, at the end of the day, I'm one of those, like, artists who, you know, like, the Malau Luna Festival where the Gwapda shit happened at, I got $200 grand to headline that. You feel me? I made $600 grand at Staples Center at my own show. I don't need a festival to make money.

Y'all need festivals to make money. That's where rappers get overpaid at festivals. That's why I love festivals because that's where rappers get their bread. You know what I'm saying? I know what's going on with these real tickets and real Merse sales. You feel me? Like, I made $6,000 at Staples. Like, I made $600,000 in Saudi.

You know what I mean? Like, I don't need festivals. Like, we're not going to book you for any more festivals. Okay. I'm my own festival. And that's why people don't like you Right there Right that's it

I love it Me? I love it But that's what I'm saying Because y'all want to control people Yeah I get it Y'all want to have the upper hand And when someone says fuck your upper hand

It's a problem because now it threatens Your little like Like fucking pissing contest It's like dog I don't give a fuck You know what I'm saying But yeah to that point of that shit It's like

If I don't even know you were all grown I don't like the people who like they run in your house with a gun and they film it and you freak the fuck out and knock them the fuck out and you get up saying chew it's a prank that's like this generation

it's like what about that is the prank where was the prank part so it's like YouTubers or whoever are just like make a video to just make fun of me for 30 minutes if you get your ass beat I almost feel like you should probably be expecting

that at this point it's old it's definitely old What about that was the prank? Right. I miss the joke. I can take it. I joke. Come on.

We can joke. We're not friends. I got a big nose. Like big ass forehead. You're short. Like I could take a joke. Joke. Come on.

Right. But when you're on some like, you're corny as fuck. Fuck you. You're whack as hell. Everyone that I fuck with, don't fuck with him. Where's the joke?

Right. I'm gonna fuck you up. And like you're a fucking maniac. If you think you're not owed at ass beating for fucking with someone's livelihood and trying to justify it on some white frat boy I'm gonna play the victim like nah

it was a joke nah dog you're getting punched in the mouth and figure that shit out afterwards I like that I like that I respect that I respect that ending too well listen man chomp too I like that we appreciate you coming by kicking it

kicking it with us I wish we have more time we'll do it again yeah we'll do it again I got music every fucking I know you're good for podcasting yeah we can do this by monthly I know I love I love talking man

yeah let's do it we'll be down in Atlanta end of the month, right? Yeah. Cool. We can do a part too. Oh, that might be a cool year. What end of the month?

December, y'all would be in the end of the month. All right, man, we appreciate you, bro. Thank you, man. Thank you for coming. Congrats on the release. Everything I've seen has been amazing responses. For real. Thank you, man.

I appreciate that. I know what this took some shit to put together. It was worth it. Thank you for this. Hell yeah, man. Appreciate y'all. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what y'all say. Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to The Cliford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network. work on TikTok. On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

Get Your Podcasts. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast,

network on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.