New Rory & MAL - Episode 365 | I’m a Dog, I’m a Mutt

Episode Date: April 25, 2025

[Pre-Recorded on 4/23]  Had to throw that in there because we got into the weeds talking about Shannon Sharpe and the allegations against him (7:05). More to the story has come out since we put the mics down, but we still had a lot to say about the situation. Then, R&B star Leon Thomas joins us to talk about the making of his hit song/album “Mutt” (41:35), dealing with newfound fame, and his personal Male R&B Mount Rushmore (1:11:39). #volume *Timestamps may vary based on advertisementsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this group, I'm going to die. Listen to the Cino show on the IHare Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On paper, the three hosts of the Nick Dick & Poll show are geniuses. We can explain how AI works, data centers, but there are certain things that we don't necessarily understand. Better version of Play Stupid Games win Stupid Prizes. Yes.

Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor's. Swift who said that for the first time. I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. But hey, no one's perfect. We're pretty close, though. Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. You said what, 68% of bottle water is tap water? 65 or 68% of bottle water is actually just tap water. I feel like that's low. I feel like 90% of bottle water.

It's all marketing. And plastic. Good bottle. Good glass. It's like a good glass bottle with a on it. I haven't really seen many like water ads on podcasts, but I feel like we're not ruining advertisers here. What's your top five worst waters of all time? Dasani, number one. I think that's crossed the board. Do we need to... Aquafina. Aquafina's number two.

I think Evian could be a number two. No. If you don't get Evian in that glass bottle that only the Montreon does? Any water in glass bottle is fucking awful. Any water in a glass bottle cold, you can get me to fucking go in the white van and kidnapped me.

Yeah, for sure. We have candy in here. 100%. The coldness takes away and dilutes everything. I'm good. I'm sold. Evian in a plastic bottle, I think, is number two. I actually think it could rival Desani for how bad.

Evian water is. Nah. Propel? I don't even know if... Propel is crazy. I don't know if my streets have taken me there. Sipping on a propel is wow. What is the propel logo? It's just like a pee.

It's just like a pee. It's the Philly logo? Crystal geyser nasty Yeah crystal gysers Crick crystal gys is so whack The label don't even stay on until you get home The label fall right off in the bag from the supermarket The moment you purchase it

Yeah Liquid death nasty Liquid death It's okay if it's cold I guess I'll take that over most of Like the Poland Springs of the world Oh yeah

Poland spring is only great because it's $1 and you could just get the fuck out the store Poland spring is the most accessible water Poland Spring is good as shit I don't know about that shit. When you put ass shit on there. Okay. I don't know about that. I don't know if we're going to do ass shit. I really enjoy Poland Spring water.

I'll buy Poland Spring all day. But if you go through, leave everything at warm temperature, if it goes against like Deer Park, what was the one you just said? Arrowhead. Arrowhead. Every one of its peers and competitors, Poland Spring is light gears above that at room temperature.

Arrowhead water is the water that I think they take each night at the end of the carnival, whoever didn't buy the goldfish. They take that water and put it. The sports, that's the sportsmanship award at camp. They take that water. Whoever didn't buy that goldfish, they take that water and put it in the arrowhead bottle. So, you know, we've all been like flexing for 20 years that New York City has the best tap water.

I found out recently that we have been. That's a lie. We have been lying about that for two decades. Y'all water is terrible. That used to be like a thing. Like, yeah, we have the best water. Who has better water than New York City? A lot of people.

We're like in the hundreds. Really? I thought we were number one my entire life up and. until two weeks ago. When y'all used to say that, I used to like, no, because up in Syracuse, we have a spring near us, like, over in Skinny Atlas. No, but we get it from the Hudson up there. That's why we thought it was the best.

All shit is trash. I think it's y'all, I don't know what. Alabama, don't got better water than us. I'm not jacking it. I'm not jacking. I'm jacking. I'm jacking. No way.

I feel like it's your pipes. I feel like y'all pipes is just mold. No way. But that builds character. You need the minerals from the pipe. That's what, like, fights the diseases and shit. Yeah, you need the minerals from the pipe. Absolutely.

Yo, my whole life, my whole life I thought New York City had the best tap water of all time. It was like a stat people would bring up. That shit is disgusting. Y'all are crazy. New York tap water is great. It's terrible.

It's terrible. No way, man. It's terrible. Jersey tap water. Jersey got octane in it. Yeah, drink your jersey tap water. You might as well go to the quick check in 93. Put 20 on 93. Just put the nozzle in your mouth.

That shit burn. Jersey tap water is crazy. Like the first time I took Everclear shot. Yeah. Jersey tap water tastes like a dry cleaners. Anyway, we're back. No, honestly, the first time when I got to St. Peter's,

my freshman year, I started breaking out. Like way more. Oh, taking the shower? Yeah. Yeah. That water was like bad, bad. Sorry, it built character. It made you the man you are today.

Nah, it didn't. It didn't change anything. It just made my skin. fucked up. I'm not a better person because it wasn't a trial and tribulation. You're a man's man. You're a man's man. Because of the Jersey Tap War. It's all good. Anyways, where

were we supposed to start here today? Do we get right into it? Let's get right into the shits, man. Our label mate slash maybe not label mate, because I don't know anyone's negotiations. He'll be out of a job soon. Don't, I, man. We'll be out of one. That's why I don't rock with y'all, because when I be ready to go there,

y'all leave me out there on island. Why you let's close your ears. I'm not. I'm with you. I don't think this is going to affect him the way you think it is though. No, listen, all jokes aside. So we talked about Shannon Sharp, our, I don't know if he's any more of our label made,

but a guy that we respect. Our murder into our Rough Rodgers. No, we appreciate what Shannon is done in the space. Me as somebody who grew up watching Shannon Sharp play football. Which we didn't bring up in tight ends on the other conversation. Yeah.

Which was offensive. I apologize, Shannon. We didn't bring you up in the conversation we had earlier. But nonetheless, Shannon Sharp Hall of Fame tight in. I'm old enough to remember Shannon Sharpe as a player when he first came to the league. Well, maybe not when he first came in, but while he was in his earlier playing days. First video game I had was Game Day 98, where the Denver Broncos were the best team.

There you go. Jarrell Davis. And I remember when it was a... Circle, circle, circle, circle. Shannon Shaw was the butt of jokes when it came to his speech, being able to talk. He had a, you know, it was kind of, you know, heavy, thick country accent. Wasn't the most articulate person. And to see where he is now in his career being one of the biggest voices,

biggest figures in media, you know, it's just a testament to the work that Shannon Sharp has put in after his career and playing in NFL. And, you know, the things that he's doing in this space, which is tremendous work, amazing work, we support him, we salute him. But he's obviously coming to, you know, a point in his career where things are a little, you know, not so proud. It's not a proud moment for Shannon right now. He's facing allegations of, you know, sexual assault. The clown lawyer, I still think he's a clown lawyer. I don't give a fuck. Tony Busby is representing a woman who says that Shannon Sharp sexually assaulted us.

So text messages have been released. Audio recordings have been released. Pretty articulate. Yeah, you know, I choked shit out to you. I knew what he said then. It was very articulate when he said that. But what does this mean for you? with Shannon Sharpe. Obviously, this is a stain on his jacket. This is something that, you know,

we didn't expect to hear come out about Shannon Sharman. He's been, let's be very clear, he's been very adamant that this is 1,000% of shakedown, that there is nothing here. He didn't, you know, he's not in no violation, though. He didn't violate any woman. That's not who he is. You know, he's been, he's been very vocal and very adamant, not running from that. But Shannon, you know, when you, it comes out, again, and I don't know, if this is true. Now, it is alleged that Shannon Sharp offered $10 million. And to me, when you offer that type of money so that things are kind of quiet and don't come out and don't hit the, hit the, you know, social media or don't hit the net, that says that you are trying to cover

something up. You're trying to prevent something. If you're innocent, you know, I don't care what comes out. They try to shake you down. We don't offer no money. Obviously, Jay-Z just went through that with the same lawyer. He didn't offer any money. Case got dismissed, thrown out. I believe that there's legal action being taken against the same lawyer Tony Busby now as a result of that. So, yeah, so, you know, what does this mean for Shannon Sharp? Is it going to affect his career?

I don't know. I don't know if, you know, what is being alleged is true. It's still very early. More details will come out. Shannon has been very vocal. He has not running from it. He's not hiding from it. said he's willing to put out a sex tape.

If he had it, he told them, he told, you know, Tony Busby and the, you know, alleged victim to put out the sex tape, you know, like show what it is that you want to show. So he's not hiding from it. He's not running from it. I don't know what that means for Shannon. I do know that as a result. Who is guiding for, all right. I'm sorry to interrupt you. You're giving a great breakdown of what's going on.

But you really are. I just, who is guiding Shannon Sharp right now? Nobody. He is. He's guiding himself. All right. the $10 million shit initially was like

that feels weird because which we've said a million times if somebody's accusing me of anything and I didn't do that shit I'll get on the stand I'm refusing like no matter what I would do anything to prove that but I also don't know what it's like

to be in a hundred million dollar negotiation and if $10 million out of that $100 million could get this thing that could compromise this $100 million the fuck out of here maybe I'd sacrifice $10 million so I get that part but Shannon with this sex tape shit I'm still on the side that this looks weird, mainly based off the lawyer, which I guess is a little

fucked up, but I'm just going off evidence. You saying I'll leak a consensual sex tape does not prove the innocence of some non-consensual shit. Just because y'all fucked once consensually doesn't mean that there could have been a time that way. So even though I feel Shannon on everything that he's doing, attack it head on, I get it, let's get to the shits. who would ever advise you to say some dumb shit like that? Yeah.

This girl is how old? 21, if I'm not mistaken now. They met when she was 19. They met when she was 19. Let's say safe assumption. They had sex when she was 19. Shannon Sharper is 54. 64?

56. 54, I believe. Maybe somewhere around there, 54. Mid-50. Shannon, this is not a woman that you should be involved. with in any 56 years old. This is not a woman that you should be involved with at all. Let's just put that out there.

You're just in a way, a whole different league, way too grown for a 19-year-old. What does a 50-54 when you met her, I guess, what does a 54-year-old and a 19-year-old even talk about? Big black babies? It's just, you know, you set, you started off, you know, behind the eight ball. You shouldn't, you should have had no dealings with this young, young lady at all. Um, so I'll start there. And, you know, that's, to me, that's just enough of it. It's like, how does Shannon Sharp even get to a point where he's having a sexual relationship with a 19-0 girl? We've had this conversation on the pod, plenty of times outside of the Shannon Sharp situation of,

from our Patreon episodes, of just having this, this wild age gap thing. But let's not act like that's not a regular thing in the United States, like in the world, period. This is regular. I don't really care about Shannon Sharps's like moral compass as a human being because I don't know him or care too much. If you want to do that, I think it's fucking weird. But I'm more concerned on what the actual case would be. If it's consensual with a 19 year old and 56, I think it's weird as fuck. But it's well past any legal thing that we could even bring up. Even like the people of the the whack 100s that find every state that has a 16 year old legal shit which i find odd that girl was 19 years old he's 56 years though i think it's odd and gross and i could never

even imagine any of my relatives male to female that would ever do some weird old shit like that but that's not my business i can just think you're odd now legally where does that leave it that's more of my thing who needs to mentor shannon sharp he's He's 56 years old. Both you and I are younger than him. Of course he knows it's odd. We don't need to tell him it's weird. He felt weird doing it. You think so? I don't think he felt weird. I don't think he felt weird. Yes. I know when he got out of his, like you said, when he got out of his horny mind state of allowing that girl to say those certain things. Because you know, like you said, there was responses back that weren't in that paperwork. I'm sure once he nutted, he fell out. He felt odd. He's been fun over a year. I'm sure he has three kids that some I think are older than that girl. It's been two years. I'm sure he fell out.

It's been two years, though. Yeah. They've had a relationship. Yeah, listen, I've been beating off for 15 years. Sometimes I feel weird after. I'm sure he has a clear conscience sometimes. It goes, what the fuck am I doing? Yeah, I just don't think that, you know,

he has children that are much older than her. You don't think he looks at his kids and then looks at his phone on certain holidays and goes, what the fuck am I doing? So we don't need to sit here and met. Monique already tore his ass up on his own show and told him what to do. Yeah. So I don't know if we need to sit here and do that. with Shannon Shaw.

I'm not, I'm not, I'm just, I'm just putting out what it is. Dealing with a woman that young. Gross. You're three times her age. What did, where did you think this was going to end? That's my thing. I don't give a fuck who you fuck. You want to be weird.

You want to be weird. But I'm not going to have sympathy for you because this is what happens. Yeah. This is what happens. You fucking would a fucking teenage only fans model. This is what happens. Yeah. Guilty or not guilty.

This is your dumb ass got to deal with. That's stupid as shit. Mm-hmm. I agree. I think that it was just a lapse of judgment for somebody who, you know, for the most part, I think is pretty intelligent, a pretty classy guy. I don't see Shannon as not being a classy guy. But I think this, you know, obviously when the camera shut off and people go home and they have their personal lives, I think people are into some things that are just a little inappropriate. And they're doing inappropriate things.

Sometimes this is where it leads you. It leads you to these types of situations and these types of circumstances where you now have to face the public. and talk about, you know, your personal business in the bedroom and behind your own closed doors because, again, the relationship was inappropriate to start with. So now we're here. And Shannon Sharp is facing a lot of heat. I don't know what that means for him professionally in his career as a media personality for his businesses and his platforms that he has grown. He is in the middle of a huge negotiation right now with a media company. I don't know what that means for any of that.

My guess is it is affecting it. It is affecting it, but I think it'll be okay. I really do think. We'll see. Granted, on the side of last episode, I'm not here to say anyone's innocent or guilty. I want to see just do through everything. If he did that shit, put him under the fucking prison. But I don't know, I feel like a lot of this, can we speak candidly?

I feel like in the last few years, a lot of these accusations have really came in and went. And has not affected people the way it used to. I'm not saying what's fair, what's not. I'm just speaking real on what I've observed. These accusations don't do what they used to do. No. They don't. And I think

in some cases... But why do you think that? Some cases I think it's really fucked up. Like, I don't even want to put on like a because she's 19 only fans model. Like that, I'm sure that happens to those girls often. But the smear campaign will be, hey, they're an only fan's model.

so of course she wanted it or like anything like that. Yeah. It's a easy smear campaign, which is fucked up and unfair and untrue. But to your point, there's also the side of, what do you think that girl wanted? And when she didn't get it,

she found Tony Busby. Like, both of these things are true, and I think the court of public opinion can never decide that. And I don't think the court of public opinion cares that much to even sit through this whole trial. Yeah. We're here for headlines, and that's it.

And then we'll go back to our lives. Mm-hmm. And then if Shannon Sharp says something that's controversial or intriguing or has another good interview, everyone's going to go, all right, well, I'm back with Shannon. What even happened with that case? That's how this shit goes. It's going to affect his money for sure because no matter what, when scandals happen, bullshit happens. We know that any corporation is going to use that against any creator. But I don't know if it's really going to affect his bottom line to his career.

as a media personality. I mean, I would hope not, but again, we don't know. We don't know the details of everything that is happening. We don't know what the lawyers are ready to present. And again, we weren't in, you know, Shannon Sharp's bedroom. We don't know. Nor do I want to be. No, do I want to be?

But, you know, here we are, you know, as all being a part of media. And this obviously came across the desk and we have to talk about it because, again, this is Shannon Sharp, one of the biggest figures that we have. And if this girl is telling the truth, because I'm not just automatically doubting that she is. If she is telling the truth, I'm so upset that she got the lawyer that she got because that was your biggest mistake that you could have done. Okay. Again, also, I'll put, let's take this situation out. That's also where it gets fucked up. Because if this girl has no resources, no nothing, even though, I mean, Shannon Sharp was sending her, what, 50, like, wow.

$25,000 a cheap, baby. Like, hey, listen, Brandy, I'm sorry. We should have given you more money. For a lawyer. She got bread for Busby. There's a lot of girls that don't have resources. when some shit happens like that. And they'll find the fucking bullshit ambulance chaser that says, yo, I've represented this group of people against this case. And women that have no experience in that world

will be like, okay, okay, Antonio, if that's even your real name. Yeah. I'm still on that. I'm sorry, I repeat myself. Busby is not his last name. Ain't no fucking way. I know who sent him.

Oh, my God. But, yeah, I mean, as much as I'm on that side, Like everything in me is saying you got Tony Busby This is some bullshit, some shakedown, nonsense But I also don't want to put it to girls That don't have resources And there are only ambulance chasers That will listen to them.

Tony Busby being a fucking ambulance chaser. Remember that first press release with the hove shit? Everyone on Twitter. Oh, look at Tony Busby's resume. He's the most tried lawyer in all of federal history in one of the most cases. Oh, he photoshopped that. Yeah.

That was not true. true. He has no experience. He's an ambulance chaser. But to some women, that's the only lawyer that will speak to them. So you can't really put it on people that don't have any experience, myself included when it comes to legality and law shit. I thank God for Brandy, because she's taught me so much in the music business with lawyer shit that I would never know if I didn't have her. Thank God Brandy's an amazing person and not Tony Busby. But yeah, sometimes that's the only lawyer that will listen to you. Yeah.

Especially with stuff like this where a lawyer often won't take on cases like this because there's no evidence. Like when it comes to freaky shit... I want to make that very clear. This is a separate comment. When it comes to freaky shit,

it's very hard to prove that you didn't... It's very hard to prove consent in someone else's bedroom when you weren't there unless it is on camera or unless there is like physical damage from the assault. It's tough.

And then you're going against somebody who has money. A lot of lawyers won't. Don't take that on. Did you guys ever watch the Breakfast Club interview with Stephen A. Smith? I'm actually shocked this clip has not, like, made its rounds on the internet. Our listeners in Reddit and Twitter community find this. I think Charlemagne was the one that asked Stephen A. Smith about having women sent to him.

Because Stephen A. is very vocal that he's single and, like, he's just focused on his work. He can't get me in a scandal. I'm not tied to nobody. I'm not cheating on nobody. I do what I do when I'm not working. And that's put him in situations where he's felt women have been sent to him from certain people with certain agendas to get him jammed up. And no way am I saying this is the case right now. Just bringing up that thought because they're both in media.

And Stephen A, we've known it's gone through countless negotiations. We saw him get a deal that he got fucked over. And he's making like $8 million on ESPN seven days a week. finally got his worth. But before that, he was like, nah, I peeped when they were sending women to me. I could tell that this wasn't that. Somebody sent you to fuck me over. This feels like you're about to yell rape in the hotel room. I mean, I'm just always on the side of your moral

compass and having discernment will save you from a lot of bullshit. Having discernment more than anything. Yeah, and it's just, you know. And discipline. And discipline. Even if you have these horny thoughts just to, like, control them. But this is, this is why, this is why it's, This is so confusing to me because you look at somebody like Shannon Sharp who is, you know, has accomplished things athletically that not many people will ever accomplish. That takes a certain level of, you know, discipline, keep your body in shape, you know, play at a high level for so many years, you know, Hall of Famer.

And then like I said, when you first came into the league, you had, if you want to call it speech impediment. He wasn't the greatest, most articulate person when he first came in, but dedicated himself to learning how to speak and learning how to articulate. And now he's one of the biggest figures in media. So clearly, here's a guy that has discipline and is able to focus, right? Is able to focus and able to execute and, you know, was able to afford himself a great lifestyle through his dedication to his craft and to his work. How do you have such a lapse in judgment when it comes to sexually, romantically. That's the part that I'm, because that's not, you know, if somebody is a very clean cut,

very sharp, you see in my work desk area, everything is clean, and you go to their crib and they're a fucking hoarder. You're going to be like, this doesn't check out. This is not the person I know. Okay. I vividly remember this conversation. The year was 2010. I was at Def Jam, and I'm aware that, you know, club Shay, Shaysay.

is based off Konyak and he has other vices. But an exec that was like, not shot money, another one that I'm not going to name that was kind of mentoring me was speaking about another executive that was super clean cut, super disciplined, super everything. And we were smoking in the office. And that executive walked by and he said, I think he has some weird sexual deviant shit.

Everyone on earth has to have a vice. If you're this disciplined in something, there has to be a place that you get this shit off somewhere. And if you don't go out, you don't do any type of drug, any type of alcohol, that's cool. You're not even gluttony. Like, you're ordering salads, even on days that we order and just, like, pizza and shit, he got to have something. It's got to be some, everyone has a vice.

Everyone has to get that out in some type of way. So I, yeah, it's a stereotype of the way I view a lot of, like, super. So choking white bitches is his vice? Yeah. Okay. That's what's up. I mean, which will... But you don't think someone like...

All right, you've seen, like, American Psycho? Yeah. I mean, of course, that's the extreme version of that. But I... And I'm not calling Shannon Sharp anything close to it. I want to make that very fucking clear. Pige, please don't cut it that way. Oh, you don't know.

Of course. But a lot of the cleanest cut people are the most deviant human beings. They don't get their shit out with just smoking weed. Right. They don't just have a glass of fucking wine after work or eat a fucking pizza after work.

Mm-hmm. They get their shit off. And it's in a very calculated, disciplined, and nasty fucking way. American psycho. I mean, you know, I hope that. He was ironing the fucking body bags that he was putting the bitches in. Like, that shit translates over. It's a man's man.

Now, he might have been the first metrosexual. Either way, man, you know, I hope that these are just allegations against Shannon Sharp. And if they're not, fuck them. I don't know. Oh, yeah. That's a number of a shame. Anybody that sexually assaults, sexually abuses anybody. And if she's lying, fuck her.

Oh, she's lying. Absolutely fuck her. And for people who are into BDSM, or if you're planning on trying BDSM with a partner, this may seem extreme now, but write some shit out, get some shit in writing, get safe words out in writing, get all of this down so that can't nobody jam you up. If you're doing brat fetishes or things where. someone's in control of you or you're in control of somebody. You don't want somebody coming back and saying, oh, you forced yourself on me when you thought that that was the type of play that y'all were into

sexually. There are articles you can read about how to handle that stuff legally, but please, please, please protect yourself. Like, I'm all for being freaked out. Y'all know I rarely kinkshame, but you got to be fucking careful. Because if you, you got to know when somebody is antagonizing you or when somebody really wants you to force themselves on you. Like, you have to, you got to know all of that stuff. Like, all of that is very important. So being freaked out is cool. I'm all with being freaked out. But please, please set some boundaries. And if you don't know that person like that, get that shit in writing. Especially make part of the role play a mediator with a contract. Yeah. Yeah. No, let me tell you something. If me and Roy sit down and they start throwing

$100 million across the table, I'm going to be, it's going to be casting couch on my phone for every girl I interact with. Give us your name. Your age. No for a background. We're getting all that on I'm not fucking a hundred million I'm not fucking up that bag for no pussy Ain't no pussy that good In the world Shannon is fucking tripping If he did that 19 What are you doing?

How did y'all meet? Where are you thinking at? Tell me where do you Where did he meet this girl? Your internet, nigger Shannon Sharp may he's supposed to be meeting no women on the internet Where is gonna meet him? Shannon Sharp is 57 years old

Because we've seen how that goes That's gonna let you choke her And say put this big black baby me. Where are you going to meet that girl? Shandah Sharp is worth you think that Shannon Sharp can't meet a grown woman that will let him freak the freak out. He don't want grown women. The clip just happened with Monique where Monique says you need to lead them young girls alone. He's like, why Monique? That's what I'm saying. He's fucking tripping. But

young girls, cool. I'm not talking about as young as this girl though. 19? If she was 28, 29, all right. You know what I mean? Like get your shit off. 19? Come on. She's one year removed from high school You bugging the fuck out That's not even the freaks you want You bugging the fuck out She ain't even been freaking

Yeah you're not even been around long enough to be freaky Yeah I got sneakers older than that I got the original 95 Yeah like my My lime green air matches is old than her Like what are we talking about Like you really met this girl? And let's make it clear she's 21 now

But they're saying that he met her when she Man I don't care I still too young I got hats 21 years old. But what are we talking about here, man? Like Shannon Sharp is out of, he's all the way out of pocket with this. This is crazy.

And not saying you can't date younger girls, but 19, 20, 20, you playing yourself. You absolutely playing yourself doing that at 54 years old. It's bad bitches that's 30 and freaky. I don't understand. Bad bitches that's 30.

Bernice Burgos in her 40s. Bernice is 45. With grandkids. What are we talking about here? We don't know if like she's a free. I mean, but just beauty going off being looking good and. That's 50 year old. I just said Tracy Ellis Ross at this time for a younger man.

Neil Long. Is she still available? None of you. You guys make a great couple. Who? You and you. Me and neither? Yeah.

Set it up. Rory? Don't just say it. Oh, let me just text there because me and Neil Long text all the time. I'm just saying like, yeah,

but like we're saying if I'm sharing an asshole line I'm blowing up that would have been the only thing that came out on me. They're like, yo, this nigga been

the Nia long DM's going crazy. They didn't know like your mall was with some 19 year old and said, I'm a choke you bitch. Like, that ain't going to never happen. Shannon Sharp is bugging for this.

I'm sorry. I fuck with Shannon. The alleged rape, if I'm not mistaken, Josh, correct me if I'm wrong, is that they were having penis to vagina

He put it in her ass, even though she said, no. Hey, people, if you are not aware. I love that you went penis to vagina to try to be politically correct and then went put it in her ass. Yeah, but two beeps, hey, for young men that are coming up out here because there are some young men that listen to our podcast and I think it's very important for them to be informed, that is rape. That is rape. Yes, you should not try to put it in a girl's ass if that was not told to be done already. That is rape, period. No matter if you are having penis to vagina sex, that is rape.

The moment she says no. gina sex. That is right. Can y'all not laugh? We're being serious. You get it in the political way that I was happy you were doing. And he was like, yeah, I just put it in their butt. Yeah, yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, say, patas. I don't know. Take the penis and enter the rectum. Like, you didn't even go that route. You was like, yeah, just don't put in their ass. Yeah, no. No, I agree, though.

You should not. Can I, can we, can we keep it real? Can we keep it real for, like, just the last, like, 30 seconds of this? Keep it real Fridays. Just keep it real Fridays? Shannon did that shit, man. He got a little too. You know what? He went a little too far.

Yeah. They was having wild sex. You know what I'm saying? And he probably was like... His thumb was in there. Yeah, he probably was like, he thought she wanted it. You know what I mean?

And, you know, he heard her. You know what I'm saying? Two days later, she was still sore. She's like, nah, this thing you got to pay for this. I believe that Shannon just went a little too far. I believe he actually did put it in her butt. She didn't want it. You know what I'm saying?

Like, I don't know, I'm not going to say he held her down and made her take it. He probably just tried to get it. He probably just tried to get it in there real quick and she probably was like, nah, you bugging. If her text message is correct, I mean, because clearly in text, she doesn't hold anything back. If she said no when you try to put in her butt,

then you just go back to the vagina. Oh, she also said, I bet you don't put a time in consensual sex. And if she's not with it, you just go back to the vagina. You don't keep going. Horses don't stop. They keep going. Cut that.

What? She said, I bade you. He can play with the Broncos. I beg you to put a condomine and not put it in my butt. Also, if you have sex with somebody without putting a condomime, they're telling you to put a condomime, you don't put a condomime, also rape. That's it. It's a form of it.

No, no. I'm just. That's awesome. Yeah. No, I agree. Great. So she said, I begged you to put a condomine and not put it in my ass. And you didn't listen.

I don't care about, yeah. But also. Also, but all right, I hear you. And this is why sex thing is a problem. Yeah. Because if you ever sexed with somebody and they're not that person. person. So if you're telling me to put a big black baby in me and then I show up with no condom, not victim blaming because at no point does that mean I'm entitled to fuck you without a

condom. I'm just saying you may confuse people when they show up. See, I'm going to get, all right, no mind. No, I can see molly and trying to have a smell. No. All I'm saying, I think sex things should stop because I think people just be getting a horny back. If it's, if it's somebody you've been fucking, yeah, because we could. And if it's somebody's wonderful. He's been fucking her. He's been fucking her. All right, well, let's be truthful in our sexting. All I know is whenever a girl text you, I don't know how to process this, you're in trouble. Whenever a girl say, I don't know how to process this, it's like, oh shit.

She ready to find somebody to help her process it. What's funny is that stress for me. Due process. Due to our due process, Mr. Shannon Shaw, we are calling you to the Supreme Court. I actually just felt blessed because I felt that nervous shit when you just said, need to process this when I didn't take the chicken out of the freezer. Man. To me, that terrified me.

I could only imagine with, did I accidentally put it in your butt? Oh, my God. That's what, that's what Shannon should have did. He should have wrapped it up. Josh is doing this little thing he likes to do. Shannon, you should have wrapped it up. How do we, how do we, how do we, poor Leon?

How do we transition into our guests that is about to be here? Well. Should it be a cold cut? Like, how do we get the? the energy into... I mean, well... This was wild. The good thing about our guest that's coming on is he...

I'm being stared at. He's a great, great talent, great, great singer, great songwriter. And he's coming by to have a great conversation with us. So we can get right into that and have some fun. But again, Shannon, prayers to you, prayers to the alleged victim. Hopefully, you know, everybody is on the right side of history here. And everybody's, you know, they will come in court and due process, like, Demaris said we will figure out more about what happened and what didn't happen. So, you know,

hate to see Shannon go through this. But discernment, discipline, moral, morals, moral compass. Where does that lie? Sex contracts. Sex contracts. If you that, you know, somebody is as famous and as a bigger figure as Shannon Sharp is, that might be a necessity. You might have to start doing that as well. Anything to protect yourself and to keep you away from things like this. But let's get into our guest, let's have some fun and let's talk some shit. This episode is sponsored by Ro. Mall, Roe Sparks are a two-in-one prescription treatment for guys who want more controlled erections.

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Clivert Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but, says, celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that

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What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

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So Thank you for finishing that sentence I don't think there's a more important year For black people Really? Yeah, for me It's one of the most important years For black people in American history Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app

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pictures. It's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything, but at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to eating while broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him.

I said, hi, Dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen. She says, I have some cookies and milk. This is his badass convict. Right. Just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk. Yeah, mom.

On the Sino Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations. about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail, talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to binge, featuring powerful conversations

with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this trouble, I'm going to die. Open your free I-Heart radio app. Search the CETO show, and listen now. And we are back with probably the most important guest I think of 2025 so far.

I don't know if it'll be topped either for what I think this gentleman is about to do, despite what he's already done. But we are here with one of the most talented songwriters, musicians, and artists that I've ever had the privilege. I want to make that very privilege to work with in my entire life. We are here with the great, great, great Nickelodeonians. Star Post. Leon Thomas.

This is our live studio audience. It was good. That was an amazing intro, man. That was fly. Hold on. Hold on because my fucking, my, obsessive compulsive OCD is fucking,

oh yeah, well, let's move that. Keep rolling. Oh, I like that. Man, it's about the details.

I don't know how bad. Marketing you heard of marketing. You heard of marketing. My feet was like this in my sneakers. What is that? What is that? try to redo the intro we are we're great we just here with Leon Thomas but first of all bro now that you hear uh congrats on what I think is a classic album I agree

you bro absolutely had in my opinion well me and Rory both agree the only thing we agreed on on our 2024 wrap up was that Mutt was the R&B album of the year without without a doubt man thank you so much so it's a pleasure to meet you and tell you that to your face that was a phenomenal new project. Rory was the first person to tell me to listen to it. I think he may have told me like, do you? Do you? I'm like, I didn't listen to it yet. I'm like, I didn't listen to it. And I'm here to say, Leon, I haven't stopped listening to it. That's fire. Thank you, man. What's funny, I told you before. So when Leon and I had a session to do, who are you anyways, Rory Leon Thomas out right now across all streaming platforms, same session. He played me what became

mutt. And when I came back to you and DeMaris, I think because I've gassed a few, I think because I've gassed a albums before coming out of sessions. You guys didn't fully understand what I was getting at. I thought it was studio. But I was like, nah, nah, I'm telling you, this shit Leon's about to put out is crazy because you played me maybe 90%. Yeah, yeah. I think you were trying to get to mixing, like, in the next week. Yeah, yeah, we were at the tail end of it. And I just remember being kind of nervous because it was like, you, Elliot Wilson in the room. I'm like, ah, why lay randomly ran in? Yeah, if y'all hate this, like, oh, man, it's going to ring bells, but I'm glad it worked out, you know? No, that, that album is, is incredible. I was in Virginia. I was in Virginia.

for Thanksgiving, and I played it, like, I was riding around with my sister, and I played it in the car. And every week she calls me and was like, yo, this album is crazy. So she still listening to. No, man. No, it's a phenomenal album. But I want to go to, I want to go to, because you're from Brooklyn originally, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm from Park Slope. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I grew up in Park Slope, and I moved to L.A. when I was, like, 16. Okay. What high school you went to? So I went to International Studies. Okay. Nobody knows my school because it's shared by another school called Global Studies. and was voted the worst high school

in Brooklyn, I think, like five years ago. Over like boys and girls? It's bad. It was, yeah, it was a little rough. But I'm glad I had that experience, too, because it gave me balance. Especially going out to L.A., you know, you're dealing with a lot of trust fund kids

and missing that and the other. It was good to kind of have that grounded aspect to me, you know. Do you think, like, I feel like New York City, I mean, does Maxwell claim Brooklyn? Yeah. Hell yeah. Okay. But I feel like the R&B, like outside of like maybe what they were doing at Harlem in like the 80s,

traditional R&B I feel like New York City is kind of not had an identity for. And then I feel like Virginia gets our identity when it comes to production just because of what Teddy Riley did when he moved down there. Like New York, of course we have rap. I mean, that goes without saying. But R&B, I felt like we have never really put a staple in. what i mean like lauren hill and like fuji's you know jersey but yeah i mean jersey oh that is jersey damn i don't know i'm the only one i'm the only one it's got to be so darned like i mean like i feel rn b like like doesn't really have the where you from type of like when you hear r b like they're from there

yeah like yeah you don't need to raise your father i guess yeah when you arm b you don't have to wave you your city flag. I mean, when Life Jennings came out, I was like, where is he from? Yeah. Because this sounds like the craziest hood shit I've ever heard

in my life. That's what I wanted to ask. Right. I don't know, R&B never really feel like, I feel like it has an identity of where you're from. Like even Beyonce into like her latter part of her career,

I felt like own Texas even more. Yeah. That's like starting to happen, I think, now. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah,

it's getting pretty real with the Cowboy Carter stuff. And, you know, she's definitely, you know, showing her roots. But I'm glad that I can definitely lock in and let people know I'm from New York. I'm very proud of it. It's a big part of even why I'm

multifaceted. Because I mean, I think growing up in Brooklyn, especially in Park Slope, Prospect Park is where all the skaters would do their thing. So I'm over there listening to rock, and then I'm going to school, you know, at International Studies, right near the Gowanus projects, and I'm hearing, like,

all this hip-hop, you know, it's like, it's so much just, just it's just a real melting power. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of noise, and you got to make something out of that, you know? And then I think for R&B, I can say for New York, Alicia Keys. Let's not forget Alicia Keys. Let's not forget Alicia. And there's more. I'm like, I'm just blanking on them. But, but yeah. Yeah, no, Alicia definitely. Everything Alicia did coming out was like, that girl's from New York City. So yeah, I do take back some of my statement. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alicia Keys, like living in a brave New York. She got the whole Broadway play, Hell's Kitchen, going crazy right now. Talking about her. Yeah. Where's Mariah Carey from? I think she's from New York, too. I actually randomly had a session with Mariah Carey. I'm not going to stop. I'm not going to lie, bro. Wait, wait, wait. We went from her zip coach. You don't just throw that out there.

I randomly had a surprise session with Mariah. Like, how does that... It was really cool. How does that happen? I mean, I didn't sign an NDA, so I guess I'm cool to talk about it. We were just getting creative. Like, I don't know if she has any plans of dropping anything, but it was really cool through my production partner, Chris Ridic Tynes.

He hit me up. He was like, you're trying to do a session with Mariah. I'm like, yeah. Who is it? Yeah. And it was so cool, I'm cool, we're just sitting there

writing records and vibing out. That's dope. You know? She's an absolute legend. That was fun. Absolutely. I mean, if you didn't sign an idea, you have a very unique process,

which I will not. I didn't sign an NDA, but I won't give you a process away. It was most unique thing I'd ever seen before. I was like, it was a little different thing. Beside myself of how you work,

because I've never seen anyone work that way. She's from Huntington, New York. Long Island. Okay. Well, yeah. What is my, What is Mariah's process like in a studio? Is she more like start with a melody, then put words to it?

We were like, we were writing, I kind of like to call it choir style, rather than like being isolated in the booth, like going like part for part. We're all out in the control room, just kind of shooting ideas until something comes, you know? And I think that's more fun. It's more collaborative, especially when you're working with other co-writers. the new school way though is everybody goes into the booth and lays melodies and it just takes forever choir style you get a chance to kind of just put it together and I think you can also understand if the hook is going to be catchy enough for a group of people to sing

me I mean I get it for sure I always have been meeting some of your um well before you get there because I do have a real question about Mariah it's it's April 23rd right so that gives enough time to get something clear did you write any Christmas music no to me Make sure generational wealth, Leon. Think about your children. Think about your kids, Leon. Why are you not singing about Santa Claus in those sessions? I'm going to be honest.

Like, even outside of the Mariah session, I've been thinking like, yeah, I need to really, you know, just pick up the Christmas pen. Like, you know, it's time to get right. This is like a every year bag, you know. Okay, so this just reminded me, damn, you just remind me off Christmas. Right.

We can cut this if we need to. Valley of Emotional Oranges, who you know. sent me a video of you and her doing a Christmas song when you guys were like 18, 17 years old and it was quite possibly the greatest funniest Christmas video I've ever seen. I mean just a good 5D camera

shaking footage on Venice Beach singing about Christmas like insane work and Valley's my dog She's amazing We were both like to Rossstrom Yeah yeah exactly

And it's so cool to see her reinvented her in such a beautiful way. I'm running to her all the time. It's like, nothing but love. Yeah, no, she sent me that the day our record dropped, and I was like, I meant to send it to you. Nah, yo, it's all good. I try to, like, erase all Christmas records.

I'm trying to do it in a fan. No, because it looked like the whole label was like, we're going to take them to Venice and put them in sweaters. Yeah, nah, I mean, shout out to Rastra, man. You know, it's funny, Benji just hit me up not too long ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really love Benji. We were just trying stuff, you know, independent, just do it out there.

What was that, Rochester, like, because I guess for fans that don't know, that was one of the bigger independent to then major labels. Yeah. Is he still work with Wiz? I'm not quite sure what their relationship is like. But to be honest, at that time, everything was really cool. And I was around Wiz a bunch. Mac was in the beginning as well, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mac Miller was assigned to Rostrom. And Arthur, he was one of the lead executives, like, you know, running me around. Everybody, he introduced me to Rob Markman. And it just like real important, you know, figures. And the way that they worked was just really very running gun. You know, let's like really put the work in. Let's not spend a bunch of money yet until it's like making a bunch of money.

And I respect that because now that I'm at a major label, I still move like an independent artist in that way. Like I'm not blowing a bunch of money on studio time or even just doing like crazy, wow, $300,000 music videos. I'm kind of big on just let's build this piece by piece, you know? And that definitely came from Ben. How has it been, because back to my riot thing, how has it been for you meeting some of your heroes and inspirations and music? Has it been an enjoying thing?

It's surreal. I mean, well, a little bit of both, but I think for the most part, it's just very surreal. You've got to kind of suppress your inner 13-year-old self, you know, for like that day that you're doing the session. But I think once you get past that, you have to go over the creative anxiety that comes from like, this could be life-changing. And I think once you get over that hump, you're just creating with another human. Yeah, I mean?

Yeah. But those first two bumps in the road are not easy, you know? Yeah, I mean, I think even going from, like, the TV, I guess, child's actor, I don't know if you considered, yeah, a child actor thing. Yeah, I've been doing a small lot.

To then doing rostering, which was the culture at the time. Yeah. To then, I feel like you kind of got, it wasn't a bad thing, but you became the snooze guy, which I felt was like, weird. That was the way

I feel like people started to discover you and listen, it's like the internet and even just how people consume music right now, they're just trying to find a common denominator, you know? And Snoos was a huge record. So all of it was positive from my perspective because I knew what I had

in my back pocket. I knew like the tools I was working with. It's not like I did that record and then it was like okay now let me start trying to be an artist. I had been getting ready waiting for a moment like this to really use it as a platform, you know? Yeah, because I think you had the best example of having that stereotype of this is that guy. You heard about him, you know, he did snooze to now Mutt being the best of 2024.

That transition though doesn't really happen for a lot of artists. A lot of people just get put in the writer, producer category when they're right. We were just talking about Esther Dean when the Kerry Hilsen thing came up. We were going through just great writers that were also great artists, but they never. vocalists, yeah, yeah. They never got to break through. Yeah. How do you think you did break through that?

Because some of the greatest writers never did that. Well, I think a lot of those artists who were also songwriters and producers aren't necessarily operating with the team perspective. So me signing with Todd Dollar sign and the cross-pollinization of me being just like in a musical, cultural moment, I think was really helpful for just like a lot of people's perspectives as they started really hearing me. And then I think being a producer and really seeing the whole artist journey of building a brand, I kind of started recognizing things that I didn't like and that I was going to do different.

And for me, consistency was everything. I shot nine visualizers for a month. So all day on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube shorts, wherever I could, you know, push some ad dollars into it. I had a little 40-second commercials for my music. outside of like all of the amazing press I've been doing with Biz 3, my publicist. So I think it's just understanding that. I need like these cultural elements in conjunction with like solid marketing around it. That's like the piece.

Brand identity, the red dress. Okay. Like the look, the vibe had to all match what I was trying to kind of sell with the music. And sometimes a lot of songwriters and producers who are stepping into it don't necessarily come to it with that same perspective. But Victoria Monet, she really overstud. Like, she like... Yeah, Jaguar's really...

She went insane. She went insane. So there's, like, I feel like we're evolving and learning over time. I really respect that. And I think that's great with you guys having the tools, because I always think the actual songwriters and vocalists make the best artists. So having the tools and the knowledge to do, rather than I just have to do Mariah Carey session

and give my best records away to whoever is the bigger art. artist in the room. Right. I'm glad, like if you go through Victoria's catalog and see what she's wrote. Yeah.

If she's been a partisan, some amazing record. Five years later, she's now able to put shit out by herself where she can keep a lot of the records that she's writing instead of give them away. I mean,

the industry changed too. Like, at the time when Victoria was really trying to do the whole artist thing in the beginning, it was just kind of tough. Like, executives sometimes need to be in the same mindset

of this is really possible and this can work. And I'm glad that the new school execs are like becoming more lenient and open to the idea. I mean, they were very, very hard to please around that time like 2010. Yeah, for sure. Because they were still, they were coming out of radio, still trying to understand the internet. Yeah, it was just a whole different time. Stakes were high. Yeah, stakes were real high.

Yeah, they weren't risking budgets on stuff that was unproven at that moment. That part. And they were terrified to lose their job. Like, really all it was. You said nine visualizers for Mutt. I do want to ask about Mutt this song. You had regular version, Freddie Gibbs, and then the CB remix as well.

I just went to find a 21 Savage song that I love off his last album. There's the sped up version. There's the chopped and screwed version. There's the deluxe. There's the regular. I had to scroll through seven of the same album to get to that. Can you speak to the importance of remixing the remix of the remix in the streaming era? I just think content is king

And if you can find a way to reach different audiences with the same copyright It'll feed the original version And potentially become something brand new for the song You know Annali Chapa is like an interesting example of that Of him like remixing a song three, four times Until he found himself in a position that felt like This is a whole brand new thing

And I think that's kind of smart I feel like when artists raise their hands in this generation that's just overly cluttered with songs, content, and things going on, I think it's important to find a new way to really brush off a song that could genuinely go crazy, you know, and I'm so thankful that right now we're at 16 on a Hot 100. That's a big deal. Top 20 is like a big deal, man. So I think a lot of that is due to us, you know, not giving up on the record after like two months or three months.

You know, like I think you've, you've, you know, You guys have been the perfect example of post-promo being way more important than the rollout in this day and age. Yeah. Because Mutt is coming up close to a year, sort of. And now it's really climbing up every single day. And that kind of speaks to, I think, the new wave that any creatives or artists that are listening. Post-promos is way fucking more important.

The rollout is cool, whatever. If you want to create this build up this moment to that day, and then it's like, all right, cool, whatever. Yeah. There's a viral clip of Tyler. Tyler the creator talking about that. He was like, I hate that the new artists feel like they're too cool for school to like actually promote their music. I'm still promoting my album from last year.

And that actually inspired me because I was like, you know, he's right. Like sometimes you might hit him with the out now like a little this or that, a video. You're like, well, it didn't work. Like, oh, uh, yeah. But even like dollars wise, I mean, no, you want a major, but people that are independent. Yeah, maybe we should start moving the money to after the release than before the release. Yeah. Use our connections for playlist to get shit at least posted the correct way, but the money needs to be spent after.

Yeah, yeah. Let's see what works and then put our dollars into that shit. At any point when you had, when you wrote mutt, like, I don't know how long you had it, but if you had it for what, did you ever consider like this person would sound great on this? Or was it always just something that was personal? That was me. That was me. I knew that one was for me. Period.

And also, it's like, I think a lot of artists were too afraid to record that song at that time. Like there was no like example of something else that was successful with that sound. For me, I even remember the label wanted to go with far fetched first. And they were kind of fighting me on dropping mut first. But my whole argument was it's the title track and it's upbeat. And I think, you know, this is, we only have two months to roll this out. This is a great opportunity to, you know, pull people's eyes back into the other copyrights. You know, they can just like use this.

as a commercial and it worked. How important was it, do you think that is for artists? Because you make a good point, sometimes the label will hear the album you turn in and be like, no, this is the one we want to go with. But how is important is it for you as an artist to stand on your square when you feel that strong about a record like mutt and be like, no, this is the one we're going with? I feel like it's balanced, man. I mean, first off, I don't know everything.

You know what I'm saying? I'm 31. I'm still figuring things out. I make plenty of mistakes. I just personally feel like my music should. reflect where I'm at, what I'm feeling. And I feel like that's how you're going to get the best out of me from a marketing perspective too when I'm able to really identify with the messaging, with the feeling that it's, you know,

given from a cultural perspective. So, I mean, I do my best to just at least plead the case so that, you know, it makes sense to everybody involved. And I'm really lucky to have partners that believe in me and trust my word and my, you know, in my taste. Do you still feel like you're a dog in a mutt? No. That was last year, right? Yeah, I feel like that was...

That was two years ago. You know, you know what's funny? You had to go through that. I had to go through that, you know. But then, you know, if you really listen to the record, it's two-sided. The hook, to me, I just said that because I felt like it was just really clever.

Yeah. If you take your time, what's the rush? I was like, I'm a dog, I'm a dog, my mind. You just think about the visual aspect of it. It's like, it's just, immediately you can see what's going on, right? But in the verses, I'm talking about being vulnerable. You can break my heart if you want to.

You know, like I have trouble trusting, you know, all these pretty faces of doing this and that. It's like there's so many aspects of me kind of showcasing exactly where I'm at right now, too. It's just hard to like focus. The reason why I may be quote-unquote mutt is because it's like, well, this is hard to focus with all of this, you know, these filters, you know, these fake conversations.

Yeah. You posted the video when I think you were at a sound check for a show. Yeah. You got the Chris vocals back. Yeah. How is that, I mean, we obviously give Chris his flowers. He's arguably one of the greatest artists. Amazing, man.

One of the greatest entertainers. How is that to have somebody like Chris hear your record and then I don't know how it would happen? How did that happen? How did the Chris verse come about? Did you reach out to him? Did he reach out to you? My team actually reached out to him because I was scared to text. text to do to be real.

We met like probably like a year and some change before that. Okay. And he had heard my album, Electric Dusk and, you know, resonated with some of the songs. It was just really nice to me when we were outside. Always cool. If he had a table, yo, pop through, vibe out. Here's a drink, chill, you know. And I really respect people like that.

And then the way that he even operated with this feature, he wasn't gatekeeping. And a lot of R&B artists getting intimidated or feel weird about, you know, helping somebody else up, um, out on their journey up. And, and he's just been so gracious and cool with this entire process. I only took him like a couple weeks to record the feature and he really wanted to make sure it was right, you know. I respect artists like that.

Um, and I'm really hoping that I can even later on down my journey be the same kind of artist to be like, you know what? Yo, come on up. Yeah. Yeah. Here's how you do it. Try this. Don't try.

You know, you know what I mean? Like, like, like, give it. give back, pay it forward. Right. You know? How's the transition been? I mean, you know, obviously been very prevalent

behind the scenes and Electric Dust was, I think, number one on my list for, that was 2023 or 2023 or 2020. I think it was my number one R&B album. But still I feel like the shift of notoriety has been this year.

How have you been dealing with that? Outside of just Chris Brown want to hop on shit. It's awesome, man. I mean, music takes time. Are you walking? Is your walk? Music takes time?

Yeah, I'm feeling good. It's like, I like a lot to you, man. I'm feeling real. I know. That's what I'm waiting for. I'm talking Korean facials. There you go. There you go. There you go.

Yeah. But, no, to be real. I know. This is somebody that is lying right now. You hate that shit. You don't like this attention. I could tell. It's going to be a long journey.

It's crazy. Is that really part of your personality to like really be in the forefront like that? I mean like right now I'm doing club appearances. Like, like, like, like. It's getting wild. Yeah. You know what I know? What you asked them to put on the sign when they come with the bottles?

So sometimes we play into the record, you know, like, you know, mud stuff. Leon Thomas is here. I don't know. I never am the one who actually like to tell them. Did you tell you. Is they going to tell these people what to put on my sign? I barely even know bottles are coming out. I'm like trying to leave, yo.

I got social anxiety. No. Yeah. You're a Leo. You like the attention. No, no, no, no. I like the spotlight. Yeah, she got it.

You know, she called me out. Yeah, no, it's just fun to watch, like, you know, artists like yourself have that moment where it's like you have a Chris Brown feature. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's like life changes now. Like, things are totally different. More people are, it's more eyes on you, more ears on you.

But obviously if they're, you know, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, They listen to the album. They know that, okay, this is somebody that's going to be here for a while because you're an artist. It's not just a TikTok 20 seconds in a song that people fell in love with type of thing. Like, this is a full artist that people are getting. Yeah, it's really cool, man. I mean, I'm glad that my team forced me to do the tiny desk stuff because I was scared. I was like, man, I felt like it was early.

And I was like, man, I want to make sure I kill it. You know what I mean? But that's dope that you feel like that, though. Like, it was too soon for that. Yeah. I was like, I really wanted to kill it because, I mean, that's like one of my favorite. favorite platforms to watch when it comes to live performance because artists can't hide from like auto tune or reverb any like you know fixes you know like it's no acoustics in that

you know like no acoustics in so you really got to be you know wrong what you're doing and like go in yeah and um I'm glad they really really got me right with that because I you know I I'm definitely a perfectionist I want to make sure I'm really always coming through my best foot forward but that was a great way for people to understand just the storytelling aspect of my records You can kind of hear the annunciation a little bit better, less effects, whatever else. And it's cool to see people digging from overseas and domestic, you know. Yeah, yeah. You was in the UK for a few days.

Yeah, yeah. I went to the UK for like a week. There's some promo. They show love over in the UK. They show some love. I know y'all know too. Yeah, they show a lot of love. Where they are a lot?

Yeah, passport, stand thug. Yeah, they show a lot of love over there. It was fun. Speaking of TikTok, right, because as I'm looking at where Mutt is on the charts right now, because I'm on TikTok, so. much and I'm not really, sometimes I don't really tap in with the charts. Mut from TikTok, I don't know if you're aware of this. It would seem like it was a number one record because there was at one point, like a good

three months of my life where you couldn't scroll on TikTok without hearing mutt. It was everyone's background song. I always wondered if you guys are privy to that, but I know that TikTok is sometimes considered a younger platform. Well, no, my algorithm is so different on TikTok. It's like cooking videos. Well usually we're a very artist-friendly platform We usually shit

We usually blame the label and blame the team Yeah I actually think that your team was correct for sure On that timing with Tiny Desk Oh yeah Like I thought that was perfect You guys, that was good timing Yeah yeah

And this is why I listen Like yeah we'll have situations Where I feel like one thing will work But I love to listen too Because I don't know everything Are you nervous for the follow-up Because while this isn't your first album. This was, I feel like, the one that put you on the map.

Yeah. It's not the sophomore slump. That's something I feel like is in the back of a lot of artists' head trying to follow up something that they're getting their first identity to the masses for. You said the bar. The bar is like... I mean, we got like a deluxe coming with more records. The way I really look at all of this right now, sonically, I've been this entire time, spoon feeding more and more of the real side of me musically, which is.

which is very, very, very live, you know. So I've already known, like, that this, even from up, we had live drums on it, live bass, live strings. Like, a lot of elements that were very classic, you know, but it was still spoon-feeding where I'm headed with this whole thing. And I'm not afraid of that evolution, you know. And I really hope that everybody can go on that ride with me without getting upset about, you know, what they think I should.

should be doing because I'm an artist and I'm going to be myself regardless, you know? Who's some of the artists that you're looking forward to working with in the future? Like you have your white boy, you're like, I have to get a record with it. All right, it's a wild list. So John May, I want to work with Charlie Puth. I know it sounds wild, but I think we'll make something amazing. And he's doing a lot of stuff in analog right now. Okay.

And we've been talking about it. And then I really want to work with her. I want to do some cool live stuff. I think it's crazy. Y'all have not worked together. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we grew up together working on records.

Before she even changed the name from Gabby Wilson and her, we were cooking up joints. And she's always been really supportive of me. Yeah, yo, Gabby's the best. Yeah, but I really look at collaboration, especially with my friends, like, oh, it'll happen to this right time. Yeah. Yeah, not to force it. It's dope. I mean, like somebody like Gabby and yourself coming up to where, you know, she is and obviously you are now, that has to be dope to kind of like bump into each other.

again and be like, damn, so much has happened. Life has changed so much. Yeah, I don't like making my friends feel uncomfortable because everybody's trying to just balance out teams' expectations, fans' expectations. And yeah, we may know each other, but at the time when I probably could have been trying to get records from her, like it's, you know,

I'm trying to do it up there. Yeah, I really respect the grind and the hustle. I know the game. Yeah, we'll link back up on the straight. How did it? So rather be a lot of. alone will be part of the deluxe from what or that's a set okay do you think you'll be able to be on DDG stream after that um I mean I'm still cool with DDG they laughed at least I think your

publicist thought it was funny no it's a good question but like it's a great record I don't I don't know um yeah I don't know how everybody's feeling but I love the record he's my home me dog we've been cool for a real long time and and um I feel like their situation is still amicable too so yeah yeah yeah it's just you know How did that song? How did that record come about? She just popped by the studio. It was really just out of the blue.

A friend of mine invited her by and we were listening to songs. She was like, oh, I really liked that one. I was like, say less. Opened up a verse. Get on in there. Oh, do you? Get on in there. It's crazy.

This recording equipment works. Oh, it's crazy. It's crazy. We're in the studio right now. You like this record. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like her and her sister are

so fucking talented. I kind of want them to like, this selfish shit. I want them to like stop working on their solo careers. Oh wow. Like I would love, you don't want a Chloe and Haley album like now? Oh, together, yes, definitely.

Well, yeah, I mean, I think both can happen simultaneously, you know. I think, um, like them together is a different type of vibe. But you got to understand too. It's like they grew up doing a lot of records. Yeah. Together. And I'm so glad that they both have been able to experience

just life as adults in a different lens, you know? I mean, I'm talking since like 12 years old. I was seeing videos of them, you know, doing their things. So I respect the fact that they allow themselves time to just vibe out. I know they're sisters. So like there's always a back pocket album ready to go. You know, Thanksgiving, they got a little record ready to, you know. Absolutely.

And even like Parkwood and Beyonce just letting them grow up and find their own way. I mean, what a great mentor. to have. Like, she, she really gets it. And she also understands what it's like to have sisters and do your own thing and still be able to, like, come back together when the time is right. Yeah. You know?

All right. So, Leon, we've been seeing this whole shit on social media with all of Mount Rushmore's. Oh, yeah. So we want to, while we have you, we want to do a male R&B, Mount Rushmore. We want to do an old school one. Okay. And a new school one. All right, but, like, define new school.

Like, after the 2000s or, like, you know. What does that mean? Like right now? I would say the 70s to the 90s and then 2000 to now. Okay, perfect. Because I'm close, right? That's close enough to split it? It's sick in my head to realize that that could split it up,

that the 70s to the 90s is just as much. I'm turning 35 in two weeks. I'm going through somewhere. What do they have up there? They got baby face up there. So this person has Luther Vandross, Marvin Gay, Stevie Wonder, and Babyface. Okay, cool. Who would you take out or replace?

Who would I take out or replace? All right, guys. Yeah, we're trying to make a clip. Don't get us. Leon said baby face is trash. Oh, come on, no. No, we ain't putting that energy on it, but give us, give us Leon's. Yeah, no.

My top four, because if it's old school, it's going to be Marvin. Steven, Stevie, Prince, and Michael. I'm not mad at that. And then New School, Usher to begin, Chris Brown, Tyrese. DeAngelo. First of all, I don't like you do that

because Tyrese deserves his flowers, so I don't even like that. That was. DeAngelo, DeAnge. I was offering his name. Who? You know, Tyrese is amazing. DeAngelo, and then also,

you know what, I got it. gotta give it to Neo. I mean, I'm fucking like a whole decade of hits. Yeah. So you said Usher. Usher Chris. Chris. Ne'Angelo. Neallo. Neo. Neo. Okay. That's where I'm at. All right. It's funny. I don't want to argue these all the time. I can't argue that. And I kind of can't argue that old school one that they put up as well. Who are you taking out out of Luther, Marvin Gay, Stevie Wonder, Babyface? Who replaces that? I'm taking Babyface out and putting Michael or

Prince there for sure. But, all right, this is R&B, R&B. R&B. I'm not, I'm not saying that Michael Jackson and

not R&B. Of course they're R&B. Mike's definitely R&B. They supersede any genre like that. Okay, so Prince is a rock star too. Yeah, but like it was his ability

to mesh genres. But even like the early Prince shit, it was like really, really heavily R&B focused. I favorite Prince over Michael and I would never say that Prince is an R&B artist at all like he makes amazing R&B music but most of his music to me would be more rock alternative pop like that's Prince

to me. Like you'll get a why don't you call me anymore type vibe that's Prince can smoke R&B when he wants to but he's not an R&B artist to me Prince superseded music period yeah yeah but then again you can make the case that ushers R&B but ushers also very pop. Right. So I don't know. This is why these are tough. I don't know. That's why only the rapper ones make sense for me. Yeah, yeah.

Like, R&B gets so. I mean, four slots is tough too. It's like, it's like really hard, bro. Four is crazy. But we argued before with the Mount Rushmore shit that it's maybe not the best, but Mount Rushmore is the forefathers. That's the initial shit. That's part of, I think this would be the forefathers of everything we've heard from R&B,

you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean. Because Stevie went into pop a little bit as well. Like, I don't think you get Michael the way you get Michael without Stevie. Right. I don't know, man.

Just baby face being there is just pissing me off. I mean, architect. He's an architect. Listen, a whole hair of R&B is that. Hold on, hold on. Let me let me, hold on. Listen, I don't want that to come across the wrong way. Baby face is a fucking legend.

He's a, he's a B. But to see a Mount Rushmore of R&B. No, you got to have a month, dear. See Michael Jackson? Oh no, yeah, I mean, I, yeah, this. Like, what are we talking about? I don't, because, like, I feel like lists like this are always crazy to me. Well, as much to engage, it's much to get people under the comments.

Yeah, that's, to get them arguing. Yeah, absolutely. Like, these lists always kill me because I'm like, what are we doing? Thriller and bad. How much percentage do you think is R&B and how much percentage do you think is pop? At a thriller and bad, both albums. But see, but you, but you're going, you go into that those albums to win it was more, of a pop vibe.

Like, why not go off the wall? Okay. How much percent off the wall do you think is? Well, I didn't choose off the wall because I think off the wall is way more R&B. That's what I'm saying. And then you got to go to Jackson 5.

Thriller. Yeah. He was like Pete Quincy Jones production. Like, there's so many R&B elements throughout all of Thirl. 100. I just love, like, as much as an R&B nerve as I am, I love pop music

and do think it deserves its own category like within Thriller. I mean, he was a king of pop for a reason. Pop music is not an insult. Pop music is incredible. No, no, it's a big deal. And I think a lot of people, especially in the Army world, think pop is a diss and it's not. It's not.

No, I'm not saying. It literally means popular. I know. That's saying that artist is really popular. It's just like interesting. But even if you heard the sense like on Thriller, let's say Michael Jackson was just somebody you met. They gave you the demo on the side of the street and you popped in Thriller.

You would say this is an R&B song. No. No. Even though it took over, everything Michael does is pop because Michael Jackson is Michael Jackson. But would you pop in Thriller and go that's a argument? But why are you going to Thriller? Why are you skipping everything else before that?

Two out of the three albums to me are pop of the main Michael Jackson era. Off the wall, bad thriller. Yeah, but you, okay, but I think that's pop. But the thing that I think you're doing is, I love the free Willie soundtrack. No, but you're going, you're figuring out. Definitely had plenty of energy moments on there. Hell yeah.

I just think even our whole. definition of R&B is skewed because it's like whole perspective that the definition of R&B back in the day just meant black music, man. Right. Like straight up. Like it was literally just the way to like separate the charts of white and black. It's a segregation in real time. So my whole thing is like even as artists like a prince may have nodes of of rock and roll, which is, you know, also like a great black art form. I think it's like it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's. It's like, you know, I think it's important that we allow these artists to still exist in that R&B conversation because, I mean, I think at the time, it didn't matter what they did, they were going to be right there on those charts regardless. And while I agree with that, I feel like taking someone like baby face off that to put prints would be unfair to baby face and what he did for the traditional R&B sense.

I hear you. Like, don't box an artist in. Like, they're still one of the great. Michael to me is still one of the greatest R&B artists of a time. No, that's true. But to take away somebody that. just dedicated their life just to traditional R&B. Yeah, yeah.

I think it's unfair to take them off that Mount Rushmore when Mike was doing things that were. I personally, yeah, I personally like the, the list that they had. It makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, but like having no mic is kind of interesting. I don't know. They put Mike on a new school thing. Which makes no sense.

Mike is new school. See what I'm saying? That makes no sense. That makes no sense. He's been making music since the fucking late 60s and Neo deserves to be up here and Neal deserves all his flowers. It's just wild to see Neal and Mike like next to each other. It's not the same era at all.

Yeah, I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. This is, uh, yeah, Mike is, Mike is, you got to put Mike on that first list. This is tricky. Damn, well, if we taking Mike off this one, like, who we putting up there, like, Marcus Houston? We're not, I amX, listen. Listen.

That was a very, that was a very dope time. I was a legend. I think Leon nailed it. I think DeAngler is the one that's right there. My whole thing is that on the original The classic one You have somebody like Stevie who Bend genres and is like

Hypermusical You gotta have that in the mix When you talk about R&B Because in every generation You have somebody who's hypermusical Who's doing like things that are You know So you're saying take mic off and put you

That's what you're saying Oh come on now No no no no no no no no no That's not what I'm saying I'm still being humble What are y'all doing? That is not what I'm saying. I'm just trying to read between the line.

You're going to list that. That is not what I'm saying. At all. Like, what? Oh, I bet. Not to get too nerdy, but we've had this pop first R&B conversation for the last 10 years on podcast. Right. No, but arguing with people of like what defines pop and what defines R&B.

You are a true, true musician. Do you think there are pop sense that make music pop? Yeah. And I also think it's, um, like the song structure too there's like certain melody cadences that kind of lend more towards like the pop genre

you know pop music has always been interesting especially when I was like first becoming a songwriter and a producer I was like the Dr. Luke era of like you know diga diggi diggi diggi digger you know like tail crews

like stuff like that coming out and I think it was it was kind of tough to write those songs, but the biggest part of all of them was a hook that was really catchy and memorable. I feel like sometimes in R&B, you can have a run-on sentence in the hook and just make sure you kind of come back around with the concept at the end of it, you know? If you think about traditional Usher Records, sometimes he would have wordy hooks. But a lot of those big, like, pop records will be fairly, fairly simple and repetitive, you know.

Yeah, I hear that. Um, again, we're not trying to get any crazy titles on our YouTube videos with clips, but what's the wildest session that you've ever been a part of? Hmm. I've been in some, I've been in some fun ones. I think like when I was in my producer, hip-hop era, I, um, I went to a meek mail session. And it was, that's just funny already. Awesome.

Like, it was so much fun. First off, because he, like, he can freestyle a whole song. So I'm playing beats. And he's like, nah, no, no. And then once he finally picked one, you know, he went into the booth and just, like, recorded it right then and there. No punching. It was just like, hook, ready, boom, good to go.

That same session, James Hardin came through. It was like a party at the same time as a session. And it was cool because I was playing beats. I almost felt like I was DJing the whole thing. Okay. But we have like meat mill, like, coming up with the crew. craziest bars, like, all in the spot. Like, I don't know.

For me, that was probably one of my craziest sessions. I did want to also take this time to give Ty Dalla his flowers. He's, to me, one of the most genius writers, period, of my generation. Man, what? What are sessions with Ty like? What is Ty's process like? I've never really come across somebody that can work that quickly and come up with that much stuff. That is so genius.

I've watched some about eight. Literally just mutter out genius shit. and then just walk away. Yeah, eight songs in the night. I've seen him do whole albums and then be like, all right, let's do another one. Like, I'm like, all right, that's cool, that's chill. You just went and got that mix.

That's not coming out. All right. Cool, cool, cool. Yeah. All right. You just went and got that mix, but it's not coming out. I'm looking. It is what it is.

No, he, to me, people don't understand how genius he is. I mean, even when it comes to production, like the way that he'll executive. produce certain records and the ideas that'll come up with and how he can finish the song to me really really showcases like just the heart of his genes man i'm so blessed to be you know signed to him because i've been to fly on the wall to some amazing records bro like really seeing it come together in real time uh has been just uh yeah a lot of studying for me i'm walking away with some some gems it is time more like hands-on-on-on i mean i'm not say it would be your mentor person

say, but are you more just watching or is he really trying to mold and shape what you're doing? I think Ty is a force in nature. So his biggest gift is just allowing me to be in his world. And then the conversations that we have are very candid and real. If he does disagree with something or if he really feels strongly about something as an executive, I mean, me being signed to his label, I feel like we can have those candid conversations without it ever feeling like boss energy. It's just my homie being like, yo, let's try this. You should really try.

We always joke back in the day. He was saying, man, you need to do Afro beat record. For me, I was like, well, I want to kind of establish my R&B sound first. Okay. And it was funny because it was the first time him being an executive heard himself being like an executive.

Right, right, right, yeah. And what are the kids listening to? Go make one of those. Go make one of those, kid. But what's really cool, though, is that he's not wrong. And now I'm really excited to, like, collaborate with Thames and Tyler. Yeah, for sure. And Rema, you know what I'm saying?

Like, all these amazing artists are, like, open to me. And, you know, he's always been, like, the spark to, like, explore more things in that space. Right before we get to voicemails, which is a segment where our fans, like, call in and either tell us a story, ask for advice. It's always cool. We haven't heard them yet. So, you know, it'll be in real time. It is, yeah. But before we get that, like, what's your tour swag like?

Because your show for this Mutt tour was on every single person I follow on Instagram from every city went to that shit. Every time I opened my phone, it was you with the guitar, which made me so fucking happy. That's dope. I'm kind of curious what your tour swag is like. I mean, it was genuinely a lot of hard work. I was very tired. Yeah. So, like, you know, doing radio promo in the morning.

and then also doing like club appearances after the shows. Like I really didn't have time to be like super wild rock star energy. I was really just trying to make sure I was on time for the radio shit in the morning. Because I'm really trying to like promote this and make genuine relationships and with the programming directors. It's just like I feel like fun is down the way. Yeah, I mean? No, for the appearances, man, you got to find a friend that looks like you.

Get the cap. Is that how that works? Jeremiah did for years. You got to make sure they can sing. Maybe he had me to mic immediately like, oh. You remember when Jeremiah's brother came out? Yeah, absolutely. I remember that shit.

I feel like party next door has done it. That's the thing, man. I don't know, man. No, I'm definitely pulling up. Just get some back vocals. Yeah. Throw the hood on. But you know what?

At that time, it was really helpful to my bottom line. Yeah. You know, I mean, hopefully I won't have to do it and it'll just be more so of something that we schedule and have fun. And to be honest, I like that intimate experience too, just being able to sing me. records, really see people's vibes as in rooms get bigger, I won't necessarily

have those same opportunities. I would love to hear a record or a few records with you in the dream. That would be amazing. Yeah. I actually just did something with Tricky Stewart's artist and that would be really cool. You know, get the game back together, Tricky and Dreams. I'm waiting for that. I'm waiting for that.

Yeah, I feel like we do something cool. Yeah. All right, so we got some voicemails. We're going to listen to some voicemails from some of the listeners and, you know, they call in, they ask for some advice or some things. That's cool. So we're going to have you give some advice with us to some of our listeners. I bet. Let's see. You've got mail.

What's good, Rory, Mom, De Maris. Really love y'all. Shout out everything. Y'all do. Really appreciate the pod. I just had a question about a situation that I'm in and kind of how y'all will handle it if y'all were in my shoes. So I'm 26. You know, I've been a provider for my family for a long time. My mom is disabled.

She can't work. My daughter are seven. And me and my girl have been together for a long time. And I kind of handle all the bills. I handle everything. My girl's money is her money. But I recently kind of a little bit of a hard time where, you know, I've lost some money, you know, invest in and stuff like that. And I've needed my girl to kind of help me a little bit.

Well, she's offered to help me a little bit. And, you know, for me personally, it's kind of felt weird, always being a provider, you know, my life having everyone rely on me, you know, accepting money from, you know, I don't like accepting money from anyone, but especially from my girl. You know, and she wants to give me that money. She doesn't want me to pay her back. She doesn't want anything, you know, she's kind of comfortable helping me. But, you know, as a man, I feel like part of me just, you know, doesn't like that. You know, just doesn't feel comfortable doing that. So, you know, if you, I wanted to know, if y'all ever needs your girl to ever hold you down,

would you take that money and would you kind of pay her back even if she didn't want you to, just on principle of being a man? And also, if y'all, you know, if y'all want to send some zels and cash, I'm never, you know, turning down a donation. I'm your girl now. I'm just kidding, but. All right. Well, first of all, know you're worth King.

That's right. Let her give you that money. You don't pay her back. Know your worth. It's a soft man era. That's where we had now. Soft dick era. I'm going to tell you like this, fam.

You take that money from your girl, man. She's gone, bro. That's not, oh my God. That's not true. Gone. The truth is the truth is the truth. there she sees everything you're going through and you're you're probably venting to her. I don't know if you're taking therapy for everything that you're going through.

There's a lot of free options out there. But you're venting to her and she wants to help. And I don't think that's a bad thing. But I think it's going to be very important for you to balance what you're doing right now with what you're going to have to be able to provide moving forward because it sounds like you're providing for a lot of people, people that you care about that you love, you should definitely get into a developmental process

of maybe getting a gig that makes a little bit more. My boy went through that, and he just graduated school and got a new gig and is making a lot more money and is able to kind of help out the whole family unit a little bit better, and it's an important thing to maybe think about. That sounds great.

Leon's right. Leon's right. That was very eloquently. That sounds great. Sounds great. Once you get back on your feet. actually. When you get back on your feet, which I know you will, you'll

get there, right? I'm trying to get off his energy here. She's going to bring up in an argument that she gave you money. That's not true. The first time I get to see. This is what happened. She's probably an amazing woman, but... I haven't been there my bad. Oh, no, I've never had a woman

give me a fucking thing. But I know women. Two years down the line, she's bringing that up in an argument. That's not true. That's not always true. All right. When your broke ass can pay these bills. And your crippled mother,

they're going to throw the cripple mother in there. That's the man of the house. They're going to throw the cripple mother. The cripple mother going to get a shot for sure. And you couldn't pay the bills for your cripple mother. And I had to walk for her. And I had to help you bring your mother down the stairs and get in the car. First of all, you said your daughter seven,

you and your girl been together for a long time. She's seeing you struggle. You can't pour from an empty cup. You can't take care of everybody until you're fully on your feet. That's your partner. Let's your partner. help you. And if you do have a partner who you even think would throw that back in your face, then you have the wrong partner and you don't need to be with her. But from what you are telling

us, it doesn't sound like your girl's that type of person. You just, it's really just your what the patriarchy has told you is and is not acceptable. That's your partner. You've taken care of her. You're not fucking up or making it being less of a man by allowing her to help you, which is actually helping y'all. Like, let her help you. You'll get back on your feet. You'll be good. Nobody called him less of a man. We've all been jammed up. I'm not on that time whatsoever. I'm just saying she's going to throw that back in his face. That's all I'm saying. Tell he's feeling bad about that, man.

Yeah, I understand as a man, it's tough when you're not to provide. I get all that. But I'm just telling you. Don't listen to Roy and Marr. They date the worst kind of woman in the world. No, I'm just, I'm just, I'm here. All right. Hey, hey, what's his name?

Did he give us his name, Josh? No. He didn't say his name? All right, well, if you call us back in three months and let us know where you and your girl stand after letting her help you with some bills. Man, can't wait to throw it back in his face. They live together. not for long.

All right. Y'all, why are you acting? Like, we sit here all the time and go through the shit. Like, damn. That's what she did to him. It happens. Yes, yes. What do you think she's saying in her group chat?

I don't think she's telling her group chat that her man is having money problems. She probably got one home girl she's talking to about it. But if she's offering to pay the money and saying you don't have to pay me back, she don't care about that. A girl. Since when has a woman ever said, you're here with some money and said you ain't got to pay me back? And meant it. I've been in a relationship with somebody who came upon hard times and I had to pass them some money.

Yo, don't worry about that. You take care of me forever. And then what happened? I would never throw that in their face. I'm just saying, but then what happened? You're not together no more, right? Yeah, for other reasons. That's nothing to do of money.

Yeah, I know. Whatever, Mom. Yeah, I know. Oh, man. Was it a factor? No. Okay. No.

Got you. It wasn't a factor in the breakup? Okay. All right, cool. Well, Leon, we appreciate you stopping by kicking with us, man. your brothers for real, man. Again, continue success. Looking forward to the new project, new music.

Thank you for that phenomenal album last year, man. It's been a pleasure to watch your career take off and watching you, you know, performing these venues and seeing people sing your songs. And it's a lot of ladies at these shows, man. And I'm going to just need two passes. I got you, man. At your earliest convenience.

Yeah, that's easy. For whatever show. He's in Delaware. That's not far down 95. I can't do it. That's right down 95. I can't. I'm a little too old.

Did I see DC? I'm a little too old for the college show. I'm a little too old for the college show. Yeah, I'm a little too old for that. That was Leon Thomas. Thank you for that. You could plug our record too. You don't have to just plug money.

Oh, no. Shout out to y'all record. Phenomenal joint. A lot of people was a lot of people. A lot of people, you know, the sound and the tempo was kind of throwing people off. I mean, I suppose why we wanted to make that record. But as soon as Rory. me here, I was like, no, this shit is fire.

So, got out to y'all for getting together that joint, too. Yeah, yeah, for real. That was Leon Thomas. I'm that nigger. He's just ginger. Peace. On the Look Back at it podcast. 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year.

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