New Rory & MAL - Episode 367 | DJ Hed & Mal Reflect on Drake vs Kendrick Beef One Year Later

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

It’s here. It happened. DJ Hed agreed to come to the New Rory & Mal office to discuss what happened between Drake and Kendrick a year ago to date. Rory & Demaris take them through the timeline of disses, asking questions about their insider (and our common) knowledge of what started, escalated, and finished this beef, and get both representatives' opinions of what mistakes were crucial to the outcome using hindsight. #volumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to the. the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam Jay.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. there's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they failed. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon, Danny Trail, talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. the entire season two is now available to bench

featuring powerful conversation with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. Without this group, I'm going to die. Listen to the Cino show on the IHare Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high-octane world of sports,

Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. From action-packed live events to gripping behind-the-scenes. documentaries to hard-hitting investigative pieces and in-depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams. Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama, and passion that makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to Vice TV.com to find your cable channel.

The volume. Welcome to our one-year anniversary of the greatest battle in hip-hop history with Drake and Kenzie. We are here to celebrate with two of the biggest media personalities of the entire battle. Demaris, I felt like these were the best two to bring in to really break down everything that happened a year ago. I agree. Representation for both camps. We will start with our first guest hailing from Carson, California. Go figure. I had no idea. Media personality, legendary DJ, and the Coast Guard, from what I'm told. I have yet to see him swim, but we are joined by our family. DJ head. West Coast, we're in the building.

Yay. Studio audience. Thank you for having me. I appreciate, you know, being here. I get to sit on the Rory and I'm all set. This is what an honor. I just talk like this. I'm not being sarcastic.

And in the other corner, I do not know his height and weight because I am not built like that and he would find that offensive if I did, hailing from the Bronx. Absolutely. Fordham to be exact. Question that.

We have the one and only. I got a question. I'm here every day for the last like 12 years. Like, you don't have to clap for me. I got a question. You know, like you said, when he said you from the Bronx and then you said the street, is that normal? Like, that's some East Coast shit?

No, but if you say you from the Bronx, the Bronx is so big. No, I know that, but that's like saying I'm from Carson, but then I wouldn't say like Diamonddale because I don't know. I always found that interesting about like New Yorkers. Because even like Wano does that, like other people do that where like it'd be like, yeah, this is my block. And it's like, I would never tell a nigga where my block is for safety reasons. Oh, no, I don't still live there.

No, I know that. But I'm just tell you guys tell with your fingers, pause and your mouth that is exactly where you're from. But I'm just saying like to me that raises safety concerns. Like I would never say the street that I live on, on my family is still there. But Creston is a long. Oh, okay, gotcha. And Fordham is a street, but it's also like an area. It's a area more or less.

That's like, okay, got you. That's like when we say Crenshaw, it's a street, but it's also an area. Exactly. Okay, got you. Exactly. That makes sense. So we didn't Doc small. He's just, he don't be.

I mean, if anybody want to go to Crest and it look for me, be my guess. Just don't call me for that. I always hear in New Yorker say that. I'm like, damn, he's just going to say the street he live off? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it's not a small street. Very, very big block. I want to start with P, something that you guys do agree on and something that actually makes me very happy.

The Lakers are the fuck out of the playoffs. thank God we can clap for that as well. I know both of you are very sad. Mawl for some reason as a Lakers fan. I don't understand it. He's on the right side of history. Dahlah Lakers fan. Not this year.

But I'm a Knicks fan, so. I'm sorry to hear that. So I feel like we should start at the absolute beginning of this entire thing right before the battle even started. I want to go to the control verse. Because DJ Head is our guest, we will let him go first.

Do you think the subtle shots Kendrick and Drake threw at each other host control were serious, or just for sport? I think it's all sport. It's always been sport up until it wasn't. At what point was it not? I think once, I mean, we'll get there, I'm sure,

but once lines get crossed and stuff like that, then I think that it no longer, it starts to take it outside of the realm of sports. It's no different than, like, you've seen, like, Ron Artes or LaTrell or Draymond or. It's sport until it's not. You know what I'm saying? What line was gross?

went from control or any line that was later on okay that was later on but from the control it was just like once that that was all like sport and it was just like yeah getting the booth

okay I feel you then there was a rumor which I think both you guys have some background on Kendrick was supposed to be on first person shooter or became first person shooter and there was some type of disagreement between Kendrick and Drake both of you being insiders

Can you tell us what really happened when Drake reached out to Kendrick to get him on what became first-person shooter? Head, we can start with you or mall, depending on... I don't know what happened. I'm not sure what happened. I do know that obviously he was supposed to be on the record. I don't know if he just decided he didn't want to do it because he had other plans or if it was just a timing thing and he was taking too long to send the verse back and they moved on without him. I mean, I don't know for sure. I've never had that conversation.

But, I mean, whatever it is, I don't think it was nothing that, you know, is a real reason of why this battle mayor started because he didn't get on the record. I just, I believe that he had a plan. And he was like, this really will go against everything that I'm planning on doing. Okay. So you believe that he had no intention of getting on that in that the like that verse was going to happen regardless of Jay Cole and Drake going on tour together, hugging on stage. talking about the big three sort of but it's us because you're at home and we're holding hands

do you think it had anything to do that? Do I think it has something to do with Drake and J. Cole being on stage on tour together and Kendrick not liking seeing that? And it being a number one record. Um, I mean, uh, maybe. I think that, you know, the record happened. I don't know if Kendrick thought that them three on a record

I mean, he probably did assume that it would be a number one record with them three on it. But I don't think that that was him seeing them rejoice and have their moment or stays together. He was like, nah, fuck that. Like, I'm dissing these niggas. Like, I don't think that was it. I think he had this premeditated for a while and just, again, for sport. I think it started a sport. And then I think it turned into something else.

I think it started as just, you know, I don't want to be boxed in or grouped in with y'all. I feel like I'm better than both of y'all, which is cool. as an MCU and this rapper you're entitled to that. But I think it turned into something else after it was just sport. How do you feel the same way? Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. I don't think it's, I don't think it's like as complicated as people like to make it out to be. Like they try to make it out to be like this huge folklore type thing.

I don't think it's that. It's really just it's simple. I don't really have insight on if he was supposed to be on a record or not. I haven't discussed that with anyone. but if he was supposed to be on the record, then, I mean, I know the speculation. I'm not an idiot, you know what I'm saying? But if he was supposed to be on the record, then he, I'm pretty sure that he would deliver on it.

But I think it's just sport. Do you think Kendrick had been plotting this like that verse, or at least this battle for years? Because that was always the rumor, even from people on his side, that this was something that he had been plotting for quite some time. then Drake ironically said he was going to stop making music for a little while, and then we get to like that verse. No. What? Pure coincidence. No, it's not coincidence. It's just a verbiage.

Like, the verbiage you use was plotting. Plotting indicated. Plotting is a verb, meaning that there was action being taken. I don't think that they was plotting. I think that you're ready. Like, I'm a registered firearm owner in the state of California. I'm not plotting on anyone, but I'm ready for whatever. I think that's different. Yeah, as a rap in MC, I think every rap is, you know, has that much. mindset. I'm always ready. I think every rapper has bars directed at other rappers. But, you know, in this case with Drake, I think that any rapper would want to get into a back and forth with Drake. It does. It helps you out. No? So do you think he was plotting more? Because you said what pretty loud. No. Well, I see what head is saying plotting. I don't know if that's the word,

but planning, I think is a better word. Preparing is a better word. But why not? I think every artist is. We're talking about one of the biggest artists in the world. And if I had the opportunity to have a moment with him going back and forth, making music and displaying my skill set, why would I not want to do that? Maul, do you think because Kendrick the weekend, Metro Future, and Ross all teamed up around the exact same time, that there was not a plan or a plot to go against Drake all at the exact same time? I think that's one of those, you know, when people get the opportunity to show you how they really felt. they just waiting for the first person to go

and then other people will start expressing their true feelings and emotions. I think that's what that was. I think everybody secretly had some, I mean, for the last, what, 15, 16 years, Drake has been on top dominating music. I think other artists see that. And, you know, I don't know if jealousy is the word to use.

But I think other artists feel some type of way. And then they hear bars and they're like, man, I think I could go at him. I think I could get him on a verse. All these guys have songs with him. So there's a relationship. But I think it starts, like Head said, I think it's a competitive thing first. I think after a while, you know, it goes into a little bit of a, you know, more personal thing.

Like, you know, a lot of guys, you know, numbers aren't doing as well if they don't have a song with him. Or, you know, he sends a verse, he doesn't send verses back as fast as he used to. Or he's not sending records like he wants. was I think that that starts to turn into like, damn, he don't fuck with me or, you know, like, is it an issue? You know, change of a number or something like that. You know how those things happen. And then it turns into, all right, well, fuck him. Head, would you agree?

No. You have to. Elaborate, yeah. So I don't think there's like a, I don't think it's like a grandiose conspiracy. I don't think that people was plotting and waiting or I don't think even think that it was a jealousy thing or even that had anything to do with his music. I think if you're a shitty person to people, regardless of what you, regardless of what you do, like I have, I have for, I have homies. I have home girls who they nigger told them that they love them and then they would do shit to counter that, right? Whether it be do verbally or physically.

So regardless of what I do for you and I whatever, regardless of what I do for you, I can't just be like a shitty person to you on. top of that and just be like, all right, everything is good, man. So I think that there are things like obviously, we all know like, hey, it is cryptic, hey, don't like to talk about nothing. I just not willing to, everything for me ain't content. So I'm not willing to divulge like, you know, this nigga did this to this person. And then it's just that when your, when your character is not wholesome and you violate the sanctity of certain relationships, yes, certain people are probably going to fill away towards

you regardless of what stimulus package you've given in. in the past. It doesn't matter. So if you violate the relationship, I think that, yeah, people are going to feel away about you. For sure. I mean, that's a life thing away from us talking about some of the biggest artists in the world. I think that's life. I think if you have a relationship with somebody and then, you know, it changes and then the person starts treating you some type of way and then it's obviously emotions and feelings change. Not saying that I think that's what happened here. But again, I do think that some of it is, you know, if Drake doesn't, you know, give me a verse or it doesn't do a song with me.

Like I sent him a record. He didn't send it back. But then he did an album, an entire project with somebody. And I still never got my verse. I think that leaves room for somebody to fill away. I agree. But there's also, so again, there's more things that play here. So like, if I let example, Rory put out an album. Let's say Rory wanted to, huh?

Available now. All DSPs. All of the DSPs. Your album's out now. Okay. Roy put out an album. Let's say whatever the album, let's say it went platinum.

I don't like that laugh. I'm sorry. I don't like that laughing. I'm so sorry. You're mad professional and all of a sudden then we just start laughing. I'm sorry.

Go ahead. Oh, shit. Please finish. All right. So Roy put out of arm, it goes platinum. Maul has an artist and he wants,

and Maul wants his artist to do a collab album with Rory. Mall works out terms and spends X amount of dollars for Rory to do album with him. That's music business. That has nothing to do with who Rory fucks with or anything. That's just business.

Right. You get what I'm saying? So I think there's business and then there's friendships and there's relationships, but there's also just sometimes it's just business, right? And I think that people conflate the two because hip hop is supposed to be this communal thing where everybody is like jumping on shit and sharing features and stuff. Sometimes it's just business. It's not bigger than that or smaller than that.

Right. The other thing is when it could be some people fill away because, oh, he didn't get back to me as fast as he normally would or whatever the case may be. That's, I'm not saying that's out of the realm of possibility. However, I don't like the narrative, me personally, just because the things that I'm aware of, I don't like the narrative that everybody's ganging up on this one individual because that's what it seems like optically. everybody doesn't know what's going on as to why it's like like i said this before is it is it 20 versus ma'all or did mall offend 20 niggas and now mall is in the room with 20 niggas and they all want to fuck him up you know what i'm saying it can be both i think that this particular situation was again people trying to capitalize off the moment they realized how big the moment was going to be

and you know people threw their hat in the ring like you know if he responds to me great like i can put out a record i could shoot a video i could you know, sell some tickets. I could sell some merch. Like, we're not going to act like this is not, you know, one of the biggest moments. Like any, any artists would love to have this moment. When or lose, I think that any artists would take this moment because what are you really losing? It's not about losing, though. No, but I'm just saying in the perception of losing. Right. Right. Who is losing in this situation? Who has lost? What has Kendrick lost? What has Drake lost? No matter what side of it you're on. If you think Kendrick lost or you think Drake lost,

what did they really lose? Well, I'm pretty sure that one of those parties have lost substantial business opportunities. You think so? What opportunities? I don't know. I mean, ain't my business to tell, but I'm pretty sure that there have been opportunities that have not come to fruition due to the nature of this entire thing. The nature of the perception of him losing or the nature of what the song is. is insinuating.

Could be a combination. Could be. Could be. Okay. And we'll get to that part. But, Ma, do you feel like he's lost any business opportunities?

Drake? Yeah. No. Okay. Moving on. There was a rumor, but let's not act like it was a rumor.

It was a fact. Drake and Kendrick did speak post like that to set up rules. Are you confirming that? I am. Okay. Oh. It's a podcast.

We don't fact check. Drake and Kendrick had a conversation prior to like that, sorry, after like that, where they had some light combo about what the rules were going to be and how far everyone was going to take this. There was a third rapper involved as well,

but he bowed out, and that's not what today is about. What do you think those rules were, and what do you think that conversation was? I like the phrasing of that question. What do you think? Yeah. The rules were? Yeah.

I appreciate that. Thank you. I don't know. I don't know what us. That's why I'm in the turtleneck. I don't know what I think the rules were. I think it was maybe certain, you know, maybe family type shit should be off the table, maybe, you know, things like that. But I don't, I've never thought about, you know, these guys being on the phone call and then, you know, having a discussion about rules of engagement when it comes to him seeing.

I think as, you know, as men, I think it's certain things you don't say as men. into each other or about each other. But obviously that line was crossed. So what was the conversation really about? Okay. Hey, what do you think? Say the question again. What do you think their conversation was pre-battle about what the rules may be or how far

we're taking this? What do I think the conversation? If the conversation happened, I think that the rules were discussed as far as, A, don't, let's not get personal. Let's do the thing. But if we go personal, it's going to go to another level that you probably don't want it to go. Okay. And then I think that's if I had to choose, if I had to guess, that was the nature of the conversation.

Then let me ask you this. What was your initial reaction to push-ups and do you think be around a bodyguard like Whitney was opening up the floodgates based off this initial conversation that even though he didn't say anything disreservation? respectful about Whitney at that time, he did say her name. I think any time you mention a name, Virginia Williams, anytime you, this part, you also got to look at it. You can't, it's not a one-to-one. I'm a black and white individual, but there's so much nuance to this entire thing that people consistently overlook. You could look at Drake the same way you look at mall or you could look at where, whereas

people would probably perceive you to be a habitual line stepper. Whereas like you consistently and egregiously encroach on this line that people have set forth as that that that's their comfort zone for the things that you say. Right. Same thing. This person has a history of egregiously encroaching on lines that you probably know are off limits to certain individuals, especially certain people of certain ilk. Right. So I think those things have to be taking accountability once you then, like you said, we're all grown men and we know that's not necessarily true. I know people who consistently encroached and don't know where the line is because they didn't have big homies or older brothers or anybody to teach them the ways of manhood.

Right. So there being said, if you could say anything like to from it could be whatever the line is. It doesn't even have to be a, it doesn't even have to be my wife's name, my fiance's name, anything. Maul could say, we could talk about anything when we have this conversation. You just can't mention my earlobes, right? That's my line. You mention my earlobes. I'm losing my shit.

It's up. That's his line, though. That's his choice to make. So I'm like, man, fuck your earloves. Woo, woo. Now I have to deal with whatever comes with that. And I think that's where people get lost in translation as far as the line between. Oh, this is hip hop, this is sport, and this is like, no, this is a real thing.

That's, that's just, that's the best way I can answer to it. Well, to DJ heads point, Drake has mentioned opponents, girls in the past, and it has backfired or taken a battle to the next level. Do you think it was smart to mention Whitney this early in the battle? Because it was just to like that verse and then push-ups was a reply off the 20V-1 shit. Was it too early to even mention Whitney at this point? I mean, I don't, I'm not, you know, I'm not an MC. I'm not a rapper.

I don't know, you know, I can't speak to the mindset or the, you know, the strategy of what Drake had going into this thing. I do know that, you know, he was obviously very calculated, very, you know, strategic in his approach and his thought process of what he was going to do, how he was going to do it. But I don't know if he, if that, if I look at that, like, oh, it was too early to, to say Whitney. I don't, I don't, I don't know. I don't, I don't think so. Again, I can't speak, you know, for his mindset in that moment. But to me, that bar didn't really, you know, like when I, when I heard that, I wasn't like, oh, shit. Like, it didn't really.

Okay. Now, when I heard, maybe heard it and been like, okay, if they did have a conversation, and he spoke about not mentioning, you know, the family and the wife or whatever, then I could see Kendrick like, okay, so then all bets are off. But I can't speak to if that was too soon for Drake to say that. But given the fact, both of us not being a rapper's brain, I didn't think make it ring on them like Virginia Williams was that crazy of a barred either. But you've seen in the past that if you just say a name,

it allows a rapper to be like, all right, well, family's on the table now. just saying the name, not even the bar. Yeah. Is that a mistake that Drake made twice? No, I don't think that's a mistake. I think if he wanted to say something, he said it, and he stands by it, those are his bars? Like, you know what I mean?

I'm not, who am I to say that was a mistake? Like, I'm not, I don't think that was a mistake. I just think that, you know, whatever his mindset was, he had that bar, he came up with it, and decided I had, I'm going to say what I want to say. Like, I don't give a fuck about no rules. and it is what it is. What do you guys think the score was at this point from like that to pushups?

I don't know if I... Because like that to me, you know, obviously it's a future record. Kendrick has a verse on there. Push-ups is a record designed specifically for that moment at Kendrick. So I don't know if I scored it. I think the like that verse was when we all was like, oh, shit. Like, okay, like Kendrick is... He wants to get in the ring.

Like he wants to have this moment, which I think we all feel like he's done before and he obviously wanted to have that moment for the time. I think that it was more surprising for me that Drake engaged it because he was, you know, still on the road. Well, it was just fresh off the road. I think when like that, no, he was still on the road. Still on the road, yeah.

So he was still on the road. You know, I was more surprised that Drake, he engaged in the situation. Again, because he had all of this going on. I didn't think that he would want to get off the road and go right into battle more because you do have to get into a different mindset to get into a back and forth with an MC or rapper as Kendrick.

You have to make sure that you're on your A game. So him being on tour and then getting off, I was like, I didn't think that he would engage it. But I mean, I think that this is something that, again, every rapper has in the back of their mind, like, I'm ready for anybody. Like, you know, I don't care what it is. And I think that that's, you know, one of the things that I respect about Drake is because he very well could have not responded and just ignored it and been like, yo, I don't even know what this guy's issue is or whatever. And, you know, continue doing what he was doing. But I think the MC and Drake, the rapper in Drake was like, yo, hold up.

Like, you ain't coming at me like that. Like, you know what I'm saying? you want to have this moment let's do it so i think there's some there's some something to respect about that but again i didn't think i didn't think that he would at first because again his mindset and where he was at wasn't nowhere near battle rap mode it was more so like you know i got you know this this tour going this album just came out you know me and cole are selling out you know shows number one record you know i didn't think that he would flip the switch and get right into battle mode. So I was surprised that he engaged in the battle. Had thoughts?

I wasn't surprised, but not from an MC or competitive standpoint, just ego. I think, I think ego has been the fall of the empire. Well, part of it, but I think it was all ego, bravado, and miscalculation. I think it was, I think, I think from the very beginning, And, well, I don't think, obviously, I don't count. I don't score it. Like, I don't have a score at this point. I never really had a score, honestly, throughout the whole shit. It was just like, boom, boom, boom.

So I wasn't scoring it, but I actually had this conversation with my manager, Salas. He told me, he told me right after like that, he said, if he responds to me to one of the worst mistakes of his career. And I was like, how? You know what I'm saying? I'm thinking, like, again, I said this before, but I'm thinking like, You know, R. Kelly, he's going to make a hit record. Everything going to go away. So he's going to make a hit.

He's going to hit record himself out of this. Like he does all the time. He's Drake. He can do that. I was, boy, was I wrong? But when you look at the push-up record, that still to me is one of them things where it counts, but it didn't count until it counted,

until he claimed the record. You know what I mean? Like, until Drake claimed the record or Kendrick? Until Drake claimed the record. Push-ups. Yeah. Because I think academics was the only person with the record. Now, as a DJ, I know how that is.

You know, like, you know, Flex get the record first or whoever get the record first. I get the whatever. I understand that. But not in this way. Because in this way, it's like, well, are you responding or are you not? And then it would be like, it's just, he became like a meme coin. He was just meming all day. it was just like memes and little subtle innuendos and like little it was just stupid shit going on

it was goofy so that's when i decided to say something again i was like no my own but i was like yo what are what are we like what are we doing like what is it you know i mean and then because the record wasn't out and so i don't think that we actually can count the record until the data that came out on ds p now it's like oh now this is a real record because you're claiming the record as opposed to it being it could be a i it could just be some bullshit that accurate doing, you know, whatever the case may be. So from there, that's when I start everything. I don't even count like that.

Okay. This episode is sponsored by Roe. Maul, Roe Sparks, are a two-in-one prescription treatment for guys who want more controlled erections. I know that word makes you uncomfortable, but, you know, sometimes when it's time, you got to act. You had no idea it was even coming. Yeah, Roy, sometimes you need that push.

Sometimes, you know, you need to get the blood flowing. Yeah. Need to get the juices going. Roe will help you grow. They call me Roe Roe in the streets. That's what everyone calls me. And you can't spell Roe without Roary. That's a fact.

Yeah. Every time they see me out, they know what time it is. True, Rory, and Roe stays active in your system for 36 hours. It's important. So sometimes you can go double over time, triple over time, depending on how you feeling. Yeah. And I mean, it doesn't make you hard, like, right away and just walking around still. No, no, no.

It only works when you're starting to feel a row. So even if you want to plan your date around that entire thing, take it early, let it just get right in that blood. Yeah, find the right window. Yeah. Then when it's time, Roe will know. Ro connects guys with a medical provider 100% online so you don't have to waste time in waiting rooms, because that's always awkward too when you want to have to tell the doctor what you really hear for. Like everybody knows.

Yeah, they can see it in your face. Yeah, they can see it. If approved treatment ships directly to your door, very discreetly. If prescribed new sexual health patients get $15 off their first order of sparks on a recurring plan. Connect with a provider at row.com slash Rory and mall to find out. out if prescription row sparks are right for you. That's RO.co slash Roryan Mall for $15 off your first order. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey

from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you're.

need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here. unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. And, yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black.

people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures,

it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything, but at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids.

They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. I said, hi, dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen. She says, I have some cookies and milk. This is this badass convict.

Right. Just finished my husband. I'm going to have cookies and milk at them all. Yeah. On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail, talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to bench featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic.

And without this trouble, I'm going to die. Open your free IHR radio app. Search the Cito Show. And listen now. I want to get off TaylorMade pretty quickly, but I do want to ask both of you, was it a mistake for Drake to say in Taylor Made, call him a pedophile?

No. Why? Because I think that that was obviously in a bad, battle, you know what people are going to try to weaponize against you and say about you. You know, so you take that and you say, go ahead. I know I don't have no skeletons in my closet. Like I know the type of things that you're going to try to say about me. So go ahead.

Say it. Like, yeah, get it off. Say it. Now, what I think the issue came in. I think what the label did with the record and publishing it and, you know, getting behind it, putting money behind it. I think that's where the problem came in for Dr. I don't think it was the fact that Kendrick said it. I think it was the fact that once Drake realized like, oh, this is a play. Like, okay. Like, and obviously, you know, we're not in Drake's business, but he's in

negotiations currently with the same label. He probably asked for a number that not many artists have ever been in a position to even attempt to ask for. So he understood the deeper thing. Like, okay, this is to try to devalue me at a time where y'all know the business that we're saying. sitting around handling or discussing. Kendrick is a new guy on the block with PG-Lang. Y'all are now behind that. Okay, cool. There's no problem there.

But I see what's happening now. And I think that's where Drake felt like he didn't lose the battle. He walked. The battle lost him. He stepped away from like, oh, this is a plate. Y'all are trying to get, you know, some data and some numbers behind this thing. Like, okay, I get it. Like, I'm done.

Okay, Ma. And we'll come back to that when we get to not like us. Hadd did you want to respond to that? Do you think that it was a mistake that he did that? I don't think. I mean, I think everything he did with Taylor made was a mistake. How so? Like, I wouldn't, I understand the, like, the whole, like, an eight-mile approach to shit.

But that's also a rap nerds pipe dream. That's not reality. Like, you don't go into a fight. Like, to me, that tells me that you've never been outside. like I'm not I don't go to the park to fight somebody and hand them a weapon you know what I mean that's just not reality to me that's some blog rap nerd shit you know what I'm saying like in the sense of at this point you've already escalated things so now you should probably understand that we're not it's not a friendly fade again I've explained this at nauseam a friendly is for someone who you're

friendly with or friendly fade a fair one we call it a fair one is for it a homie like we have a rapport and we're going to go, we're going to go eat after. We're going to go outside. We're going to run a fair one and then we're going to go eat. That's reserved for the homie. When you're an op, quote unquote, opposition, an enemy, whatever the case may be, where how we came up, there are no fair ones. You get immediately eviscerated.

We call it maxed out or packed out. There is no such thing as a friendly amongst people who are oppositions. So to me, like I said, this screams of somebody who's never had those, been in those environments because I would not hand somebody a weapon to use against me in the real world, right? The second thing. Well, what if it's not a real weapon? It doesn't matter if it's perceived as one.

The cops is going to shoot you if even if you, if you have a gun in this phone case, it don't matter. They're going to shoot you. It's a perceived weapon. So we all know we live on the internet. Perception doesn't matter. I mean, reality doesn't matter if the perception is fucked up. Right?

So the second thing was the AI shit. The song would have just been a cool, wouldn't have been a dope rap song without the, without the, without the AI shit, again, screaming of lack of cultural awareness because you don't, I don't know, maybe I could ask you, would you ever use someone's likeness who's currently walking around? Me? Yeah. No. Why not? Well, I mean, me, I wouldn't, but in that situation. And that, because I'm just, I don't.

Not in that situation. Just in general. Why not? I mean, but I have, though. I mean, we've done skits and things like that where I've acted like other people. With AI? Not with AI, but in the terms of acting and using somebody's likeness and personality, not necessarily AI, but with that record, with the Teller May record, I thought that it was a clever. First of all, we've never seen that in that type of situation, bad or not.

So I thought it was a clever play. It wasn't like one of those records where it was like, oh, he's killing him. It was more so like, oh, that was kind of, that was clever. It would have been even more clever without that. Because to me, again, somebody who has respect for, I don't give a fuck if I don't like you as an artist. I would never, because I have respect for hip hop. I have respect for my elders. Even people who don't like me as an elder in the game, I would never disrespect them publicly because I respect.

Where was the disrespect? To use someone likeness without their permission who's currently breathing. Yeah, but it wasn't, yeah, but see, that's where, that's where y'all, people look. lose me in this because, yes, he used a Pupac's voice with a filter. Snoop. Snoop. Um, but when we say, oh, he's using their likeness and this, that, and that, and like, Drake wasn't using that as a single trying to get popping.

And, like, that's where I think people was just, this was a moment. It was a battle. It was like, all, let's have some fun. Um, he's taking too long to respond. You know, what are some of the West Coast, you know, Mount Rushmore's? What would they say in this moment to Kendrick? If they could speak to him and get him in a room. I think that was Drake's mindset.

Like, yo, we doing this or not, bro? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you jumped out there with the verse. Let's do it. Like, I'm fresh off tour. I'm in the studio. I'm not sleeping. I'm up.

I'm ready for this moment. Like, what are you doing? And then obviously, you know, the record came out. Somebody made a call to in the state. The state said, take it down, delete the song. Okay, cool. No problem. It wasn't that serious of a song.

I'll delete it off my Instagram or wherever it was living at. It wasn't that deep. So that's why I feel like when people like, Oh, he used, you know, Pock's lightness or he used Snoop's likeness And this down the third and it's like, bro, it wasn't that serious though. He wasn't trying to make, he wasn't trying to make

a living off of this song and publish it and then push it out to the mat. Like, you understand what I'm saying? So when people carry it that heavy, I'm like, bro, this was a battle, bro. This was a, this was like a little intent. Like, yo, what's up, fam? Like, I'm here.

I'm outside. I'm waiting for you. Like, what you're going to do? Like, I agree with you. But to me, even your rebuttal screams to me that you don't understand. that's disrespectful where we come from. Where I'm from, that's disrespectful.

It doesn't matter what the use case is. You don't violate the elders or the OGs. Where was the violation at, though? Why did they tell him to take it down? Because he used somebody's likeness and their tone and their influxes and their voices. So the violation is using someone's shit without their permission. Yeah, but again, you're losing me because I get with you. saying, yes, he used the AI, the voice, the filter. I get that part. But it's not like he used it

and was disrespecting Pock or Snoop. And that's what I'm telling you. You don't see the bigger picture is. The bigger picture is those are West Coast artists. Kendrick is a West Coast artist. And this turned into California versus Drake. Not Kendrick versus Drake. No. That's the real situation. No, that's not what happened. That's exactly what Kendrick turned it into. That's not what happened. Kendrick didn't turn it into California versus Drake? You DJed the pop-out show. What are you talking about? Who used who's like-

So was you in Amazon. Who used whose likeness? Drake and Ford. Are you saying that Dot conspired to have Dot, I mean, you're saying Dot conspire to have Drake use those two West Coast legends, right? No, I'm not saying, no, no, no. I'm not saying Dot had anything to do with that.

No, no, I'm just, listen, you're saying that Dot turned it into California versus Drake. 100%. But Drake used California first. He used it in a way of saying, yo, dog, you're taking too long to drop your version or your record, whatever you're putting out. Like, yo, what's up, fam? I'm waiting. Like, this is what the OGs would say or what I think the OGs would, if they could get to Kendrick to air, like, Kendrick, we need you. West Coast saving. All of that.

Like, that was just fun shit. That was part of the moment. But to since didn't have the estate, whoever called the state, I don't know who called the state, Tupac State. Who has to call anybody? I'm just saying, somebody made a call. Can somebody use Rory and Mall to do stuff without your permission? No. They do it all the time with YouTube.

No. No, that's not what I'm asking you. Are you cool with people using Rory and Maw? Rory, are you cool with people using Rory and Moll to just do whatever the fuck they want to do? No. Why not? It depends the light that it's put in. Okay.

There's plenty of stuff that goes on YouTube that will never copyright, copy strike, anything. If you want to use our content, I'm okay. There's been times where, like, homophobic shit was used. in our likeness that we didn't feel was okay. Especially with our brand with advertisers and it's different there. Right. But as far as like someone clipping this exact conversation, nah, I'm fine with that.

Okay, perfect. Because it promotes, I mean, granted, that didn't promote Tupac or Snoop. So I see there's not. It wasn't supposed to, though. I know. So it's a weird comparison that I think Head is asking. No, no, no. It's not, I'm not comparing the two.

I'm simply just asking straight across, because he was bringing up like somebody called the estate, just straight across business. you can't even put out your album without getting clearance. Oh, for sure, yeah. No, I don't think anyone needed to call Tupac's estate. They could just hear it. That's all I'm-

The lawyer that they have on retainer. I don't think nobody called Tupac's estate? I'll be honest. I don't know Kendrick. No, I'm asking, do you think anybody did? I think somebody probably did. I don't think it had anything to do with Kendrick, but I'm not in this debate.

Okay. So my point is, Drake brought California in before Dot did. because of you, Snoop and Pock's likeness? It would have been a cool record without it. Okay. It's just creatively you have to have the bandwidth to do that on your own. I get that. All right, so 17 days passes.

In this era, I feel like because of the internet, people want you to reply right away. And I feel like that was the one that kind of initiated this entire thing with free time while Drake was on tour and then waited 17 days to put out euphoria. Was that too long in your opinion, Ed? No. Not in retrospect. We're in the timeline right now. No. Why?

Because you don't get to dictate what I do. Even if you popped everything off. If you say, yo, let's fight and then now it's on your time. No, you asked me to fight. Let's go fight. But who said that? I mean, like that, I feel said that. He didn't say, let's fight.

He said, fuck that shit, I'm this. That's like me saying I'm not anti anybody. I'm just pro us. I'm not anti New York. I'm just pro-L.A. He said he wanted to kill every for every dog. We know what he was talking about. That was...

Wordplay. Long ago. Initiates a battle. That wasn't like that. That's the end of the verse. No, I know that. But what I'm saying is, if you look at it, to me, that's rap. That's not the same thing.

Like, if we're keeping this timeline that we're on right now, right? Whereas that song comes out, then you get the response, which is the push-up record. And then this alleged conversation happens. It's like, oh, this is a thing? all right bet i'll be back you don't get to dictate when i come back nah i mean head is being political and i respect that but we all know it was a play what was a play lucien had to have a meeting about what was going to happen how it was going to happen what absolutely you know that for a fact i don't know i'm just saying

yeah that's crazy so i also do you not do you not see that that could be something that would happen no in the building that's not after we've engaged like that has come out and Hold on, Roy, not to catch you off. As a moderator, not to catch you off. No,

no, go ahead. I want to shut you off. You don't think that there was no talks with anybody at Universal about what Kendrick was about to do at any point in this battle.

You don't think that Kendrick had a conversation with anybody about his plans, what he was going to do, how they wanted to do it. You don't think, you think all of this was just

Kendrick with his, whoever he's in the studio with and they would decide and what they wanted to do. You think he didn't have a single conversation with the latest. table. Do I think that? I don't think so.

You don't think he had in one conversation? I don't think so. All right. Okay. Once Euphoria drops, head, I know you had said earlier, you didn't think he was plotting whatsoever, but there was rumors that he had records for four years. Again, rumors, I have no idea. Euphoria did speak a bit to some stuff on push-ups, but was that a record, in your opinion, that had been halfway done for quite some time? No, I think you have ideas. I don't think the record has been done. I don't think the record has been forever okay I think you have ideas it's like oh if I get into it with this artist here's some things here's some some bullet points like we've all moderated and hosted

shit right so me personally my personal hosting style is I go like I'm doing a I'm going to Cal State Norfridge next week to speak I don't know what I'm gonna say but I have bullet points of ideas and then I that's my best way of communication because I want my thoughts to always be authentic that's why I don't have no prep sheets I didn't come here with like hey we can't talk about this. You know, you know what I mean? Because I'm best when I'm just being real and authentic.

So I think these are ideas that he might have had, but I don't think there was any records. I mean, there probably, there probably were some bars in songs, but I don't think there was a euphoria done four years ago, no. Okay, follow up on that. Do you think anything on euphoria landed at this point in the battle, April 30th, 2020? Yeah. What do you think landed? I like the DMX callback That's a personal fan favorite of mine

They hate the way you walk and stuff like that Because it was just funny It was a moment that was funny And I like humor But You like humor unless you're using pox and snoops likeness That's not humorous to me That's respect

I don't find disrespect humorous Okay So there was a other part where You don't find this way wait hold up You don't find disrespect. You DJed the Papa. That was based on disrespect. Was it?

What? Hey, we're not doing this. We not do. You my guy. We're not doing this. Doing what? You don't find disrespect humorous. All you niggas were shaking your asses on that Amazon stage.

I rebuke that in name of Jesus. I don't shake my ass. I saw you shaking ass. I don't shake ass. I mean, you wasn't twerking. But you had a two step behind the turntable. We're not doing that. Yeah, but that's not.

gyraining ass. All right, well, you was gyrating. Maybe not your ass, but you was jarring. Yeah. Okay. What was I saying?

Lines that hit from Euphoria. You had your turn. We're going to ask Mall. Now, Maul, were there any lines objectively that you think struck a nerve from Euphoria? I honestly can't remember

Euphoria. Like the ball. And I'm being serious. I really can't remember. I can't quote a single ball from Euphoria right now. Hey, yo. I'm being dead.

I'm being dead serious. If y'all have a line that y'all can give me an example of, I would, I would love to talk about it, but I really cannot think of a line. Okay. So the answer is no, you don't think anything landed at all. Landed? And you, I mean, that affected because, I mean, we're eventually going to get. Was Euphoria the one about his dad or?

No, no, that's meet the grams. Oh, which one is Euphoria? The, I mean, it's one of the longer records. It's the, it's when he gets in his Toronto shit. That one. Yeah, I don't think none of that landed. Nuking Crotie? Yeah, that one.

When I see you dancing with sexy red, I believe you see too bad bitches. Is it what is the braids? Like the things that were addressed in euphoria, do you think that they hit at all, whether to Drake personally or to his image? Do you think that they, do you think that it made anybody go, oh, he has to respond to this? I mean, I don't think it was that. I think people just felt like Drake had to respond just as, you know, as a rap. and you stand behind your pen and your bars.

So I think people felt like Drake had to respond no matter what Kendrick said. But I don't know if it was anything in euphoria where Drake was in, you know, wherever he was at, like getting mad, like, oh, like he said that. Like it's on now. I don't think it was any of that. I don't mean from Drake's perspective,

I think just because everything played out on the timeline and the court of public opinion is really what's at stake with battles at this point. More so did that affect anything? Because I think a lot of points were brought up pushups and Drake talking about Kendrick contract and stuff that maybe we didn't know before. That's more what I'm saying with euphoria. Yeah, but people don't care about facts.

We will get to that as well. Three days later, 616, LA comes out. Kendrick rapped. Have you ever thought that OVO is working for me? If that is true, do you guys know who that person was? Because this has been probably the most debated thing during that week of who the mole was. That Kendrick has a mole in OVO? Yes. They were going through Boy Wonder's Social Security, his mom's address.

I think that was just a tactic from Kendrick of divide and conquer. Just plant the seed of, you know, start to get Drake to walk around his camp and start looking at everybody would have raised Abra out like, is it Jew? I don't think that was a real thing, though. I don't think nobody from OVO is working for Kendrick. And we'll get to Hart Part 6, but I do want to counter your point. He did say he sent somebody. To get information on Drake? No, he had said that he had placed the information about the daughter, which we'll also get to. But Drake did admit in Hart Part 6 that he had placed the mole that Kendrick was talking about was actually placed by Drake in there. Double agent. Yeah.

Oh, I'm... Jason Boren shit. I don't know. I don't know how true that is. But what do you think? I mean, I think a lot of things were said in jest. I think a lot of things was for entertainment. I'm pretty sure Drake did send some false information.

Kendrick's way. How did he send it? Who he sent it with? I can't speak to that. But I'm pretty sure he sent some fake work. He sent a fake brick in the mail. Head, do you have any response to this? Do you think that there was a mole or do you have confirmation that there was indeed a mole?

I wouldn't necessarily call it that. A mole indicates espionage. Explain. And spell it. What, espionage? Yeah. What is it spelling me? No, I just want to hear you spell espionage.

You spell it first. Me? Yes, P-I-O-N-A-G-E. Okay. You want me to go now? Not playing with me, hey. You're not, who do you think you're sitting across, man? We're not doing this.

You, my God, we're not going to do this. I'm not doing it. All right, all. All right. And I don't even know if I spelled the right, but. Okay. I appreciate the confidence. You did.

Even if you don't think that there was a mole because you keep, you keep hearkening back to the fact that none of this was plotted or pre-planned. Do you think that there was indeed someone, someone from the OVO camp that was providing information that Drake would have rather not been provided, that Drake would have rather not gone out. Do you think that that happened? I wouldn't necessarily say from the OVO camp. An affiliate maybe? Perhaps. Just an OV? An O? Maybe. If you remember, if you go back a little bit in the timeline, when the push-ups record dropped, I'm the one who announced that it was dropping in 30 minutes.

and this was the leaked version or the version I said it'll be on DSPs in 30 minutes okay and again the version that leaked or the version that ended up the official song I'm the one who said it'll be on it'll be on DSPs in 30 minutes

okay so that's my answer fair and I'm going to ask a follow up which you probably won't answer do you think the person that told you that was the person that was working with both sides. No. There was more than one mole. So it was a yes. Okay.

Fuck, I want you. Moving on. All right. So Family Matters drops the exact same day. Maul, you posted a red button as well as Drake on his story. Maul, do you think the Dave Free Bar was the nuke that Drake thought it was? No. I don't think that Drake thought that was a nuke, that bar. He had set on Red Button on the same. scary hours, deluxe, for all the dogs that he could hit the red button, everyone's going to heaven.

So we were all anticipating that this red button was going to be something that was going to blow all of our fucking minds. Do you think that that red button was as effective as Drake may have thought it was? No, I think you were just attaching that red button to anything at this point. But I think that, because for all the dogs came out way before any of us even transpired, I don't think that the day free bar was a was a bar that Drake was like hanging on like oh this going to be the one that I don't think it was that but if you go back and listen to family matters I think that to this day I still believe that that's a better record than not like us I believe

he rapped better or not like us I believe the production is better than not like us I think Drake's, the only thing I would have done differently, looking back, I would have cut that brick in three. I wouldn't have released all three of the beat changes at once. I would have released the first one, ended with the gunshots, wait to see what Kendrick does, if he takes too long, maybe released the second one. I would have done that.

But if we go back now that it's all said and done and just listen to bars, and I've spoken to I've spoken to a lot of rappers and artists that make music at a high level and without even bringing it up they say like Drake may have

in the perception of people may have lost the strategy game but as far as the better bars and music not like us is not better than family matters head would you agree with that he's from Carson he can't disagree with it or I just

go outside. Okay, well, since this was going to be a post-battle question, but let's ask it now since Maul did bring it up. Who outwrapped who? Not who out-impact who, who had the better strategy, who had the better bars in this entire battle? I stay on my side of the line of scrimmage.

He got to. He got a check from the pop-off show. I don't have to. Yes, you do. You can't go against that. I can do whatever I wanted to do. No, you can't go against Kendrick. You can't do that.

And I'm not mad at you. I fuck with you. I'm not mad at you. But you can't sit there and objectively say, nah, I don't think that, you know. I would. If that's what I thought. Drake outwrapped him.

And I'm talking about, fuck me saying it. Some of the rappers that you've played their records and respect, I've had conversations with them. And they're like, yo, Kendrick may have got the strategy and the perception of him dropping right after family matters and all of that. Cool. But if you just go and listen. the bars as an MC and as a rapper.

There's no way you think Kendrick. I don't even think Kendrick was trying to really rap or not like us. I think it was a song. He was trying to get people to dance. He needed to galvanize the West Coast, get the whole California behind this song. This is like our new

anthem, which is, I'm not mad at that strategy. But we're not going to say he rap better than Drake on Not Like Us versus Family Matters. No fucking way. Okay. So, Maul, bringing that up, When you're referencing that and everybody else that you're referring to, are you talking about just not like us versus Family Matters? Are you talking about Kendrick versus Drake in the entirety of all of these songs?

Because also at this point, Family Matters was really against Meet the Grams in that situation. I think Family Matters in Hart Part 6, Drake is rapping better than anything Kendrick put out during that moment. Just rapping, absolutely. I aspire to have this level of... He's still on impact of a song. He's talking about a song. I'm talking about bars. No.

I'm talking about lyrics. I'm talking about rhyme. I'm talking about rap. Not like us, the production is not even dope. Okay, so, Maul, you keep bringing up Not Like Us Head. Do you think that Not Like Us is Kendrick's best rap song in all of this battle? Which one would you pick out of all of them?

Euphoria. Okay. I don't even remember that song. It's probably a lot of bars too confusing. No, it's just like when you open a bag of chips, it's a lot of the A at the top and it's a few chips in there. But we ain't going to go back to that. Ed, you being the Coast Guard and having some relationship with everybody in that camp and around that camp, what was everyone's reaction to the Dave Freebar?

Comedy. It was just, it was like, that's, that's, that's, that's the, that's the, that's the, well, actually, it was two, there was two reactions. One from the musical, from the front facing standpoint, like that we all had internally was like, that's why would that's that's that's not even a good attempt like that's a sorry that's like a lazy attempt at something um and then the second thing was from the homies what about kendrick saying you have a daughter yeah that wasn't a lazy attempt what about it that wasn't a lazy attempt from kinder saying that drake has a daughter that he's hiding i don't know do we have one you don't know that that was a lazy attempt i'm asking you do you think that was a lazy attempt no you know

Mm-mm. Why? And do you think Drake is hiding a daughter? Hiding is a verb. Okay, do you think Drake has a daughter? You are hiding your opinions here. Do you think Greg has a daughter? I think it's possible.

Okay. You think it's possible that you think that Drake has a daughter? Or do you think it's possible Drake has a daughter? I think it's possible he has one. Okay. I mean, I don't particularly care to get into Kendrick's personal life with his girl, kids, and his business partner. But do you see Mall's point in some degree that saying Dave Free might be your son's father?

I agree is lazy, and I thought if that was the nuke, that's odd, because that's not, no one's really going to believe that, even if for some weird reason it was true. The daughter thing, is that not lazy because Push already did it, and we saw what that did, and you're supposed to be light gears ahead of any rapper right now, and you're really using the same strategy of something that can't be proven, whereas push did it, and it was proven. No, I get that point, but you also have to understand, like, the way I'm looking at it, and this is, I mean, you're not going to believe me, but objectively looking at it, it's a Floyd Mayweather thing. Like, Dodd has been counterpunching the whole time. He's not, he's not aggressed. The only time

he aggressed is once it was already fully on. You know what I'm saying? So, if you think about it. I like that he aggressed. What you're talking about? If you think about it, When you say, like the Dave Free thing came first and Family Matters. Correct, yeah. And then there was a response. And then the other thing came. It wasn't like, it's like, oh, okay, boom, boom. It was like a one for one to me.

Okay, so you are, and I'm asking, because we think that the Dave Free line was a lie, that gave Kendrick also a green light to lie about the daughter, hypothetically, because we do not know these people. and their personal lives like that. Oh, yeah. I mean, sure. So it doesn't, you don't get a point taken away

if you do a whole third verse about something that's completely unproven and possibly fed as information to you to give you the okie-doke. Well, no, even, okay, let's do it this way. Let's take it out. Let's take the whole verse out. Okay.

There's a record still. I love the record. I love the record. I don't see. I don't, which record is this? Meet the Grimes. I don't like the record at all on no. level. I've listened to it a total of maybe five times. And I told him that. I don't like the record.

What don't you like about it? It's too fucking, it's dark. And it makes, it makes me uncomfortable. I'm a jovial, like, I'm a nerd and I'm like cerebral, but I'm a jovial individual. I have good positive frequencies. I don't like that shit. I don't like the depth and dark, like, shit. That ain't my, that ain't my bag. So I told him that. That's one of my, that's like my least favorite record out of everything. Maul, do you think, meet the ground? Rams, even based off your opinion of the record, because even Head said he doesn't really like it like that, do you feel like it was effective off Drake's probably best record in this entire beef? No.

Why? I mean, people don't even really talk about Meet the Grams. It's not even a song that people, I think, like Head said, I think most people kind of forget that record. Like, we get it, he dropped it right after, you know, and the timing of it when he dropped it was like, oh, shit. You know, everybody who's running back and forth to YouTube. Kendrick just dropped and this, whatever. But I think when you go back and listen to it, it's probably the least favorite for most people.

Fair. But do you think if Family Matters, being the disc record that it is, had more time to breathe, it would have been more effective in this battle, whereas Meet the Grams to Not Like Us Back to Back to Back after, I think, Drake's best disc record ever. Family Matters? Yes.

Mm-hmm. Do you think that that would, was an effective step on when it came to Drake's best effort. No, I mean, no matter what Kendrick said or put out, I thought the timing of it was dope. It's kind of like, you know, head of you DJing and somebody bump your table and fuck up your needle and you know, the record jump, the energy is completely different in the room at the party. So I think that's what Kendrick did.

He bumped the needle. The record jumped and it was kind of like, okay, people kind of like, you know. but not only the record jump, my record comes on. You know what I'm saying? So I thought the time and I thought the strategy of what Kendrick did to me was dope. Like, okay, I get it. But again, I'm going back just as a music head as a consumer of hip hop and listening to bars and raps. And once I listen to that, I don't care when the record dropped, how it dropped.

In the moment, I understand, you know, the impact of that. But now that I'm just listening to bars and raps, nobody can convince me that, Drake got outwrapped in this thing. Like, there's no fucking way he got outwrap. Now, I understand what the optics of the record is and it being big and everything that Kendrick got off of that, the Amazon show and the Super Bowl halftime and things like that. I understand that part of it.

And like had said earlier, optics is a big part of it and perception is a big part of it. Again, I'm just a consumer of hip hop and rap and listening to music. And in me listening to it, there's nobody that can convince me that Drake had the worst bar. in this whole thing. Okay. Mall, hearkening back to family matters. Harkening, spell it. I'm sorry.

H.R. Mall, do you think domestic abuse allegations are too far in a battle, especially if they're unproven? Do I think domestic abuse allegations in a battle are too far? Unproven. Unproven?

Unproven? Yes. I think everyone can say proven domestic violence is fair in a battle. Maybe, yeah. I guess. I think that anything you start talking about, you know, when you start talking about somebody's family and things like that,

maybe a line that may be too far. But then again, this is rap hip-hop, but I don't think that there's any line as far as calling somebody a pedophile. I think that's the worst thing you can put on anybody's job. And we're going to get to that. We'll get to that. Do you think that domestic violence allegations are okay in a rap battle? It's nuance.

Define nuance in this situation. It depends on what the line is and what and what the rules are. engagement are. Drake, I think directly said that Kendrick had beat his girl. Then, to me, then was it warranted? Um, I don't know. Do you think, do you think unproven domestic violence is okay to put in a bad? I think anything is okay as long as both parties are cool with the outcome.

Like, you know how like the Yian, be like, hey, let's meet up and die. Yeah. If both y'all are cool with dying, I'm sorry. No, I'm just saying like... No, I get your point. I actually too get you. If me and you are okay with dying, then nothing's off the table. So good.

You know what I'm saying? It's only a problem if one party disagrees to the terms. Okay. With that said, do you think Drake is a pedophile? Do I think he's a what? Do you think Drake is a pedophile? By definition? No.

Okay. By what? So not by definition, but by what? Because it sounds like you think he's a pedophile by something else. That's not what I said. I said it sounds like... That's not what I said. I don't take credit for anything I don't say.

Okay. So you don't think Drake is a pedophile by the definition of a pedophile. Correct. Okay. Okay. I hate, this is just going to demonetize us immediately. And it's going to make my algorithms crazy. The definition of pedophile is sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object.

I'm going to close my laptop and hope the fence don't rate here. And the defined and the definitive definition of a child is what? All right, see, don't whack 100 me where you know the age of consent in every state. Okay, fine. I think below. The layman answer. We also know as like moral fiber what a kid is and what a kid is. The layman answer or is no.

Okay. Okay. And I believe you did answer it. And if everyone's ready to die, everything's off the table. But you think pedophilia is okay to be brought up in a battle. I think once, if I do discuss. with you, hey, let's, this is a line, my earlobes are off limits. And I violate the sanctity of that. Let's meet up and die. Okay. More. I'm mad at that. Do you know, any thoughts? On what? He just said?

I mean, you know, that's fair. If he feels like, you know, again, if there was a conversation and, you know, certain things were deemed off limits, if somebody violates, you know, the terms of the conversation, I think all bets are off. There's no rules of engagement, everything is, you know, fair game. I just think, you know, just where you're, I think your moral compass kicks in at some point. And it's just certain things I just, certain energies I just wouldn't invite into, you know, my music and things like that. And I just think, you know, just that word is something that I just would never throw around unless it was absolutely definitively true. Like, then go-hoo. But if not, I don't think you play with that word at all. I think that's the difference, though.

What? The nuance of, the nuance of, I want to say, like, cultural prowess, right? Like, people who don't understand certain things. Here's my thing, head, not to cut you off. If Kendrick, again, I've never had a conversation with Kendrick about any of this shit, but if he feels like Drake is indeed a pedophile, how long did he feel like that? How long did he, you know, think Drake was a pedophile? And why has he done music with somebody he thinks is a pedophile?

No, I'm not saying, I'm not telling you to answer it. I would just say to me, it's just like if we know, you know, we come from a certain area. We see, you know, he's a, we don't even play with that word. Because where we from, we know what happens to those type of people. We see people on creating content online or meeting up with people that's trying to meet up with kids and have sex, beat them, up, you know, whatever. So in this battle to introduce that energy against someone that you don't know if it's facts or not, you may just feel like it is for whatever reasons, whatever conversations

you're privy to. My thing is, how long did you feel like that? I get what you say. You know what I mean? But let me ask Marl a question. Yeah. Maul is beefing with Joe Budden. What's off limits?

What's off limits? What's off limits? Nothing is off limits. Nothing is off limit. Yeah. So let's meet up and die. Yeah. Okay.

So by that standard, then, you can't say, well, that goes against my moral compass and all, like, you just said nothing is off limit. Right. So that's what that. You're right. And I understand that. But when it comes to that and we both have children, right. So we can at one point our lives we're ready to die and crash out

We'll burn all this shit down But now when we're fathers and we have children We don't think the same anymore We don't speak the same anymore We look at life totally different We're more, you know, we're different versions of what we used to be Because again, you have children

And you understand how sacred that is And you know how precious children are So yeah, we could be in this situation where we're ready to go all out. But at some point, you got to be like, nah, I ain't doing that though. You just brought up kids. Who brought the kids up first?

No, I understand what you're saying in the timeline of things. I understand what you're saying. So then you don't get the right to dictate anything beyond that point. I'm not trying to dictate shit. I'm just saying at some point, you have to say, all right,

what I'm saying is the worst thing you can say about somebody that better be a fact because once you do that once you label somebody that again we somebody call somebody a rat we know what can happen what can happen you just call somebody a snitch coming from cars and coming from New York

we know what can happen a pedophile is worse than all of that shit okay so when you label a man that I would just think that you would have to be a thousand percent correcting what you're saying and have facts on that before you throw it out there. And I do understand there's no rules once you say, oh, you know, my manager might be my kid's father.

Cool. Disrespectful? No, no, no, not disrespectful. Again, you're trying to mitigate how one perceives the disrespect. You don't have the privilege of doing that. If somebody, if I tell somebody, If I walk out sorrow now and I tell somebody, SMD, I have to be ready for whatever.

I can't be like, oh, I got a kid and you got a kid. Let's think about it. Oh, no, Drake was ready for them. Obviously, he's the one that said. So then at that point, there's no more discussion. Let's meet up and die. I get that. But here's the problem is now, the problem is now when this is a record that you are like grandstanding.

And this is a message that you are displaying to the world. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you got your Super Bowl. and you got the Amazon show and you're doing stadiums and things like that. And this is the record that is like, you know, that's where to me it's like, okay. I just made a better record than you. If that's the line you want to stand on, cool. I'm not, listen, it's a battle.

We pick sides who you think won, who you think lost. Great. I'm just saying now that all of that is kind of like over. Well, would you feel the same way if family matters became what not like us is? about the line of day free being He performing at the Super Bowl claiming that my kids ain't my His kids ain't his

But I've said that I've said I was like yo He better have some information We don't have Because that's crazy to put on someone That's not what I ask you What I ask you is Do you feel the same way

If Family Matters becomes What now like us is Yeah Okay Absolutely All right No my moral compass is Is set to where it's set to

It's certain things to me That I'm just like All right Like you're gonna say that you got to stand on that. So you being from where you're from and me being from where I'm from, we have a certain level of, I call it texture, which I don't necessarily know how to describe it. You can tell when somebody is not authentically of that texture.

Because they look at what texture? You come from a certain environment where you operate in a certain space, code of conduct. For instance, and I've spoken as like, that's why I don't, that's why I conduct myself a certain I can't get on the internet, on the radio, on television, and just crash out. I can't say what I want. That's another gripe I have. We can get to that later. But I can't just say whatever I want because I have people that if certain people call my

phone, I have to answer the phone. Like there's no, there's no, like I have checks and balances because I don't get the freedom to just say whatever the fuck I want to say because I represent too many or certain places and people and individuals who look to me as a representation of. them. It's not just about me. And so that's a different level of respect. Tenfold, there's another thing called, and this is why, I mean, I'm not going to pick on y'all, but there's two things which I talked to Elliott about before. One is called journalistic integrity. I'm a professional broadcast. I come from professional broadcasting, right? So we have to learn journalistic integrity.

Like, Rory may, I know he was joking, but like, yo, we don't fact check here. That brings up the second point of contention, which is called libel, which I'm pretty sure like Benner is familiar with or whatever. Liable is when you say or do things that are false or disinformation, misinformation, that can lead to you being sued, Tasha K. Right? So I conduct myself in a manner in which I always have those three things in the back of my mind at all times. I don't get the luxury of just freestyle and speech and shit like that. So that being said, when you look at, like, your moral compass is set a certain way, mine is set a certain way.

You can look at certain individuals and how they move throughout the game. It doesn't even have to be Drake. It could be other media personalities or streamers or artists or whatever. You can tell who never had to go to the park or never had to catch the train or never had to answer their phone.

Absolutely. You can tell those individuals, right? That's a fact. So you can't be like, say, you can't make an accusation like Rory fathered mall's kids. And just because my record wasn't bigger than yours, be like, well, you can't say that about me on your record.

No, we're meeting up and we're dying. He didn't say, he didn't say he followed this kid. He said, I heard he might. I understand that. But the insinuation. So, yeah, but you know the difference, though. As a journalist, you understand. I'm not a journalist.

Okay, as a broadcaster, you had to learn certain things about what you say. So if I say I heard that it might be, it's a totally different thing. So when did he call him, that, when did he call him a PDF? Okay, say Drake, I heard you like him young. You bet not ever go to sell block one. Fast forward. Certified lover boy, certified pedophiles. Yeah, there's a comma there.

Certified lover boy, certified pedophiles. Who is he talking to? You tell me. Is he talking to the certified lover boy? You tell me. Okay. I'm asking you because this is your record. I was just in my record.

You played this at every party. Not every party. I did a corporate event. I didn't play that. Why not? Because they wanted like 80s, 90s R&B. Oh, but if it wasn't, you would play it. It's in your set.

I don't have a set. I read the crowd. I'm not lying to you. I'm never prepared a set in 20 years. I cry out. That's why radio is so hard for me because I can't see people. If you have five parties in the week. I'm going to play the record.

Out of how many of them parties will you play that? It depends on the crowd. That's what I'm telling you're reading the crowd. If the energy calls for it, then I'm not one of them DJs will make it about me. It's not what I want to hear. It's whatever the crowd is. Okay.

How many times do you play Family Matters? Where? At a party? Probably once. Okay. Maybe. Do you think it's a party record? No, that's my point.

I don't think Drake was trying to make party records in this moment. Okay, well, we're going to move on to the last song with the last disc in this battle, Drake's Heart Part Six. Maul, you mentioned that the Heart Part Six would age better than any other song in the battle. A year in, do you still believe it will or that has? I said that it will age better. Better than any other song in the battle.

You said it was one of, quote, one of the best battle dices or rap disses of all time. I still think that's probably, Family Matters is probably the better song because of, you know, the beat switches and things like that, just the energy switching in that record. But Drake's rapping on the Hart Part 6, I mean, I don't know if people, you know,

really listen to that record. still think that that his rapping on that is incredible. Do you think he misinterpreted Mr. Moral in his response to Drake as far as the pedophile angle went? You said, do I think he did what? Misinterpreted what Kendrick was saying on Mr. Morale as far as past sexual abuse in his family? I'm not, no, I don't think so. Because the idea of the record is that, there was some type of sexual abuse in the past with his family line. And because of that, his family thought he was touched and he was saying, no, I was never touched. Like, I'm trying to tell you, please believe me, my cousin did not touch me. Drake took the angle after not like us

to take the pedophile angle to say that he was touched. And that is why he keeps bringing up pedophilia. Do you think there's any stat lost in completely misinterpreting what Kendrick was saying? No, I think if you're going to do that, if we're going to find, if we're going to find con misinterpretations throughout this whole thing. It's a lot on both. I mean, we have on every record. That's why I wanted to be objective. No, I don't, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I mean, if he did, you know, if, if Kendra comes down and said it, that's not what happened.

And, okay, he did. But I think that Drake heard that record like we all did. And that's what he, he took from it. And that was the bar he came out with. Do you feel that he waived the white flag at the end of the record? Waved the white flag. Again, I think that he realized what was happening. I think he realized, you know, UMG's positioning in this and what they were trying to do,

which is why he still has a case ongoing against them around the business that they did around the record. Not so much, you know, Kendrick, but just what UMG did with that record and that messaging. Well, I mean, more, again, I want to be objective here. Hart Part 6 came out 24 hours after Not Like Us, so I don't think we even knew what bots or what UMG was doing. at that time. I think UMG even heard not like us at the same time we did. So I hear you on the second part once Drake realized what UMG, because I, you know, I've been on your side with that entire thing. At the end of that, I don't think UMG had anything to do with that outro. I think he was saying to Kendrick. No, no, I'm not talking about waving a white flag because I think it was

more so like he understood that, you know, all right, you want to have this back and forth. you obviously have this record okay cool you're going to put out a record after I put out a record I'm not going to keep like how long is this going to go on like I could put out five records you're going to put out five records like we're going to keep putting our records every week

I think at some point Drake was just like all right man like I'm not if this is what your plan was to drop right after I drop then cool man you got it like I'm not going to sit here and just drop records every two days and just go back and forth for the entire something I'm not going to do that okay

What's the question? Thoughts? The white flag or response to what Mall had to say with the five records and constantly going how long is this

battle going to continue on? Battle fatigue is a thing. You know? I watch, I'm a big WVE fan. I watch rappers I watch wrestlers submit all the time. Okay.

So you think it was battle fatigue? You think it was a submission? Well, the thing is I don't want to get hell of deep because people like say they like to call me pretentious, but de Maris.

Is that what they say about you? Yeah, they do. De Maris, let me ask you a question. When you listen to the heart, part six, is his energy the same as it is on family matters? I'm choosing not to answer that question because this is completely between you guys

and me and Rory have decided to stay completely out of it. Yeah, we're trying to get you guys to argue. Because we have already, because we've covered this battle so much, there's preconceived notions about what sides we are on, so we're staying completely

much more than this. So you think that Drake's energy is the same on family matters and on the hard part it's not supposed to be it's a different record the energy of the record is different the production is different i agree it's a totally different energy do you think his temperament is the same well um no because again it's a different song i think that he's seeing what's going on like he's piecing certain things together like kind of trying to put the puzzle like oh okay this is what this is about like oh all right so i don't think his yes his temperament is different on heart part six than it was on family matters

absolutely but not due to battle fatigue or you know, anything like that. I think it's due to him, like, finally seeing like, okay, I see what's going on here. I see what this is getting ready to, this is a leverage moment. Like, okay, I thought we was battling as just rappers and there was no business attached to this. I think he started seeing that, oh, wait a minute, okay, I see what's happening here. Like, there's business being attached to this. Like, I wasn't doing this for business or trying to capitalize.

He has, what could Drake, what could he capitalize off? He's already the biggest, one of the biggest artists in the world. There was no room for capitalization there. It was just like, all right, I'm having a moment with an MC I obviously respect, with a rapper that I respect. He has some words for me. I have some words for him. But I don't think that, I think that Kendrick's mindset was business.

I think Drake's mindset was battle. And I think that's what a disconnect happened. And Drake walked away from like, okay, you in business mode. PG-Lang, getting it going. UMG is behind it now. Okay, I see what's going on. I'm not, that's not why I engage in this thing. I engage in this shit as a battle,

not as turning into business and then getting, you know, whatever Kendra got from it. Which I'm not mad at. I mean, capitalize off the fucking moment as a businessman and as an artist. Cool. But I think Drake's mindset was more, this is just a battle of two of the best rappers and emcees right now. I disagree.

like Rory said, the songs just days of, like, there was no business around it. Plus, that's not necessarily how the music business work. Rory's put out an album, you could probably, well, you don't want to talk. Platinum. Okay, fine. Go ahead. Go ahead. I love that this is the example for everything.

It's my album. I'm just saying, like, no, not, I'm not trying to be disrespectful. But there's a lot of people who speak on the music business that don't activate. participate in the music business. Right. That's not how the music business is set up. It doesn't work like that. You don't get to just dictate, do I'm doing this and I'm doing that.

And there's whole departments of people to have to move and do shit when you do shit. The other part is- You don't think Drake and Kendrick dictate? That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is you still have to-that still takes time. You don't get- Oh, yeah. You don't have to, it's not. Or the label sees what's going on and they call you.

Like, hey, hey. Who's the label? Anybody that works for the label that you assigned to. Okay, I'm glad you said that. That's not necessarily true. Because if I'm in the radio promotions department, I don't represent the label. I represent the record. It depends on you all.

Some people work for the record label that I had radio. No, no, no. We know that. They work for the label, but I'm not a representative of the label to, like, I don't call you. No, not publicly. No. Some people at radio are absolutely on payroll with labels, one million percent. I'm not saying.

And you know that. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is if I am in the promotions, department. I don't get to call you and be like, yeah, so what are we doing with this record? That's not how it was. No, no, no. I'm not saying that. I'm talking this is, this is bigger than promotions department. This is bigger than that. I think that the higher up saw what was happening with two of the biggest artists of their generations and was like, we need to capitalize off of this 1,000 percent. And nobody can convince me that that did not happen. One million percent that happened.

We are going to capitalize off of this moment. So you think there was a there was a, there was there was an entire plot line. Maybe not from the beginning, but once it started, it was going. When do you think that the label started to conspire? I think that once the record started dropping, once we got the back and forth, like Drake dropped, Kendrick dropped, Drake dropped a day or two after that. I think that once they saw that and then they saw what the numbers was doing on, whatever was YouTube or whatever the, they was like, no way, absolutely.

capitalizing off of this moment. There's no way the entire world is looking at this moment and the labels that these gentlemen are attached to in some way is not capitalizing off the moment. They're not going to fumble that bag, no way. Which is why you get the Amazon show. That's why you get the Amazon show? Off the record. One million percent. You think that people wasn't going to tune in and stream the first time Kendrick performed that record? Absolutely. Amazon didn't do that by accident. That wasn't just something. That wasn't. That wasn't just something. that they absolutely was like, no, no, we need to capitalize off of this momentum. One million percent.

And it's a smart business play. I'm not knocking it, but we're not going to see it and act like it wasn't, you know, a meeting and the heads didn't come together and say, you have to capitalize. You're saying that UMG was like Amazon, let's do this thing. I'm not saying that's how it went. I'm saying when they saw that momentum and they saw how big that, this is the biggest moment in hip hop in the last. However, maybe since Jay Knoss, maybe even bigger than Jay Nause.

There's no way you're going to sit across me and say somebody at these labels or somewhere else didn't say, we have to capitalize off of this moment. This moment is too big of a moment. We may not ever see a moment in hip hop like this again. And that Amazon or whoever else is not going to have a meeting and say, we need to capitalize off of this moment. Absolutely. And I'm not mad at it.

But don't sit and say, nah, nobody had that talk. One million percent they had that talk. And they should. It's about making money. Just because you talk louder, though, me, you write. That's not what happened. That's not what happened. I can tell you, I was there.

That's not what happened. Of course you were there. You DJed the pop, but you're not going to say that and tell me Amazon didn't say, yo, we're not going to capitalize on this moment. When you say Amazon, you're saying Jeff Bezos. Whoever runs, whoever was in charge of putting together that show and streaming it on Prime, that's who I'm talking about. Okay.

Bezos probably no, but he has a bunch of people that work under him that it's their job to not fumble that moment. Absolutely. Or I'll run an or scenario by you. Run it. I pitch You should do a show at SOFi.

Why? To perform Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers? Sure. Whatever. Can't cut this shit, bro. To perform. The record. To perform.

The record. I actually, I'll tell you, I actually pitched an idea for the actual music video. Mm-hmm. Not like us. Correct. Okay.

It's like, hey, let's do, you should do it this way. Let's do a concert. Oh, yeah, that's what you think? Yeah, that's what I think. Literally, I know there was already something in the works for a show, right? But it wasn't at the SoFi Stadium. Those three days coming out of a lot of. Little did you know.

There was already something in the work. And I'm going to provide you with another scenario. Okay. So there's this big grandiose, mall, conspiracy theory, right? There ain't no conspiracy theory. Well, okay, a flat-earther theory that you have. Or it's like, hey, we need to do a show because we had a show already planned that I was supposed to do in Lamarck Park for Juneteenth.

Respect. Juneteenth is a historical black area in Los Angeles. Lamur Park is a history. We were already supposed to do a show for Juneteen. Respect. That show ended up not happening. that was like oh let's say hypothetically speaking he's like well let's just let's just do our own show because that show that show fell through oh they do they put together a show hypothetically speaking

that's a possibility right that bypasses a label that also bypasses Jeff or whoever he has in place um head can i just interject for one second i'm not here to add an opinion just add facts to it um who was the head of Amazon music at the time of the pop-up show? Because I understand you're bringing up Jeff Bezos. He's in space, but let's talk about who was actually on Earth. His girl went. Fair, okay. So who was the head of Amazon music at the time?

At the time, it was Tim. Tim, friend of the show. We love Tim Hinshaw. That's our guy. Love him to death. Do you know where Timothy? Where's Tim from and who did Tim grow up with? Tim is from Compton.

Mm-hmm. who did he grow up with what you mean? I don't know who he grew up with. Okay, fair enough. I'm just adding in some context of what you're saying. No, Jeff Bezos wouldn't. Wasn't involved in that. I'm just adding context.

I have no dog in this fight. Also. I watched the pop up, paid for it. Love Tim. Go ahead. Yeah, but there's also nuance to that, which is like, again, I don't get into, I'm not, I don't speak out of turn because, again, but there's also street stuff that it probably wouldn't.

Because I understand where you're going with that, but there's also stuff that supersedes all of this. And also Tim was just doing his job in an amazing way. Well, Tim also put together incredible. Dreamville Fest, the Dr. Everything he's done with Tyler Langeet show. Tim is one of the best executives that we need in music right now. Love Tim, but just wanted to add that tidbit into this entire thing.

Yeah, for sure. Shout to my nigga, 10. I think what Rory is saying is Tim was not going to miss a moment to capitalize. As he fucking should, though. which is my whole point that somebody somewhere said, guys, we have to capitalize off of this moment, which is what they should have done.

I'm not mad at the pop-out show, but we're not going to act like, and respect to Lamarra Park because I know June 10th, I respect it. We streamed that the year before. That's why I said. I already know that that probably was a thing. But now that we have this moment,

hey, let's capitalize off of this moment. Let's make it a bigger, let's bring in Amazon Prime and things like that and attach it to let's get a bag we can get people let's highlight artists from the city let's make it a whole thing like yeah but it wasn't it wasn't it was I guess the narrative and this was made clear to us even me and my group of guys this is not an anti-anyone show this is a pro-S show no I cool and I'm and I'm salute to that I'm not saying it was the anti- Drake thing but that moment that record the bad

battle. All I'm saying is let's not act like it wasn't big business that wanted to attach itself to that. Like, hey, I get it. Culture, battle, two of the biggest of their generation. We can't not capitalize. That's all I'm saying. Somebody somewhere sat down and came up with a plan and said, we have to have this moment. We have to stage this moment. We need to stage this moment. Okay, so, Maul, just to clarify what sure saying and just put it in black and white. Are you saying that the pop-up does not happen if not like us does not become the hit that it did? If the battle doesn't happen. No, it does not. Okay. Hadd, what do you think? I disagree. I think it's possible. There's always, because you got to think it came together extremely fast. You know why it came together extremely fast? Because we lost

the Juneteenth in Lamar Park. Right. But then that record, that moment, that battle happened and it was the most talked about thing around the world. And somebody somewhere said, hey, guys, let's do this. Again, great business move by whoever put it together. Not mad at it. It's not an anti-should. So do you share this sentiment if the idea came from that? Of doing the show?

Whoever it came from, they understood the business that they could make out of it. I'm just saying that somebody somewhere used their brain and said, hey, we shouldn't just let these songs live on YouTube and just, you know, not turning into this grand moment. Like we should absolutely capitalize, which is smart. I'm just saying I think one artist was thinking that way and the other wasn't.

The other was just strictly because, again, what does Drake gain from, you know, turning that into business? Like he already has all of those things. He's top four biggest artists in the world. He stands to gain nothing from that, which is why, again, I respect Drake as a rap and the MC because he can go into every battle feeling like

when I have nothing to gain from this. What am I going to gain? The perception in the barbershop. Some people might feel like, yo, he got him. Like, what does he gain from that? He stands more to lose regardless of who he's standing across because he's already here for the last

however many years he's been on top dominating music. So it's like, okay, but I'm a rapper and if somebody comes at me, I got to stand on my pen. To me, that's doubt. What do you mean is doubt? Because if we're here at Charles Studio right now, And let's say, I don't know, do you think that Rory can beat up Mike Tyson? Beat him up in a fight?

Yeah, in a fistball. No. Okay. So if Mike Tyson comes here, he's outside and he wants to fight Rory, and Rory's like, fucking, I'm going to go outside. We're going to be, well, the perception is going to be, well, shit, at least Rory went outside and took the fate. Are you trying to say that Drake is not a fighter?

He's not a rapper? No, what I'm saying is. Rory's not a fighter. So he should not go outside and fight Mike Tyson. What I'm saying is you give people that ado when you already have a preconceived notion that they're the underdog. I get with the point you're trying to make, but no. If I'm a rapper and I'm an emcee and another just is just rap culture and another emcee comes at me, throw shots at me, whatever, whatever.

Now, Drake is in a position where he can not, he doesn't have to respond because he's already, you know, he's been at the top of the mountain. Like, he can look down on everybody, but like, I'm not paying these dudes. on my I can only elevate you, sir. I can only bring you up to where I'm at if I battle you right now. I have everything to quote unquote lose or whatever. I don't gain nothing by getting in this battle. Even if Drake

public perception annihilates Kendrick. What does he gain from it? Is he going to sell more records? Is he going to stream more? Is he going to sell more tickets? Is he going to get a stadium tour? He already turned down the Super Bowl three times. What does he gain from the moment? He might have got all of that shit, but

it didn't go that way. He already has all of that shit What are you talking about? Which stadium tour? You don't think that Drake could do a stadium tour? I didn't say that. I said which one. Oh, okay.

As long as that's not what you say. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what?

Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything, but at first it was just like, you've got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fell is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes.

Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. I said, hi, dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen. She says, I have some cookies and milk. This is this badass. Convick, me just finished five years.

I'm going to have cookies and milk at mom. Yeah. On the senior show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon, Danny Trail, talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to bench, featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more.

I'm an alcoholic. And without this trouble, I'm going to die. Open your free I-Heart radio app. Search the Cito Show. And listen now. Well, you think Drake's perception grew after he beat Meek? His perception? Yeah.

As a rapper. As a rapper. Even after the ghost writing shit, as an entity, as a brand, as everything. I don't think it grew. I think people expected. Meek has obviously battle rap tested. He comes from battle rap. We watched his progression from the corners of Philly to where he is today.

So their paths were different. But in that moment, when that battle happened, I don't think anybody thought Meek was a better rapper than Drake. So I don't think that his perception chain. I think people respected it like, yo, he's able to make these hit records. He's able to make hit rap records, R&B records, and he'll still get in the. ring and rap with a quote unquote battle rapper, I think that it may have like show people

like, nah, Drake is really about that. But I don't think it was much of a change of perception in Drake there. So do going into this battle, from what you were saying earlier, do you think that people were under the impression that Kendrick was the underdog in this battle? Or do you think that people were under the impression that was an even matchup? Nah, I don't think that people felt Kendrick was an underdog. Well, some people may have felt that way. But people that know rap and that listen to bars and skill set, they knew that Kendrick was well equipped to get in the ring with anybody in rap. Now, Drake is obviously the big artist, the biggest star in the moment. But I don't think that the people that

really know rap felt like Kendrick was an underdog. No. I think they felt like Kendrick had more to gain. He had more to get out of the moment in the situation. Because again, Drake has, he has all of the accolades. He has all of the numbers, even though I don't care about shit, but I'm just saying, and we're talking about when anybody has to win or lose here in this moment. What does Drake have to lose outside of, you know, calling me something that is the most egregious thing ever and then trying to defamate my character on a personal level. Cool, yeah. But as far as like accolades and accomplishments, Drake doesn't, he didn't stand to gain anything here. If Drake had annihilated Kendrick in this battle, do you think you'd be speaking?

speaking this way because I think at that point we would put Drake at a God level tier as far as everything he's accomplished in music if he would have beat one of the greatest rappers that we've seen. I don't think he's got to, I don't know, but we're talking about the MC shit because I even think Drake was viewed as an underdog with the Meek thing just based off Meek's perception at the time and the ghost writing shit was going on. It was weird. That made me even go, damn, maybe you can't fuck with Drake. So what is your, I'm sorry, was your question? Do you think if he would have beat Kendrick, you'd be speaking this way that he had nothing to? to gain from it.

I think there'd be no, there'd be no questions about Drake's jacket for the rest of his life. Again, you talk, you're talking to somebody that feels like Drake won the battle because he has the better bar. Fair enough.

Fair enough. Like, you know what I'm saying? I'm not talking about a song and what it's streaming and where it's on the chart. I'm talking about the bars. Okay, well, let me go off what social media and the perception was,

just off algorithms and numbers. If social media didn't exist, and this is from somebody on Twitter at R9 Hove, I thought there was a great question. If social media didn't exist and people just listen to each song, do you think there would have been a different result? I know your answer, Maul, because you already feel like you mean. Of course you know my answer, because you know what the, you know that it would have had.

Yes, absolutely. I want to ask head that question. What's the question? If social media didn't exist and people just listen to each song, do you think it would be a different result? Not a different result. It would be more even killed, though. So it's a different result? No.

Yeah. What do you mean? No, okay. What are you talking about? You said it would be more even killed. So that's a different result than what it is now because the result now is that it's not even killed. No, the journey would be more even killed,

not the written result. All right, well, you just changed what you just said. You said the journey. Well, I was talking about it. Can you elaborate more on that? Yeah, so the end result would be the same if social media didn't exist. But also if social media didn't exist,

that would have in turn disarmed Drake immensely. But it also would have lessened the bloke lessened the, the expectation of Drake. Drake was the aggressor. He was doing a lot of taunting, a lot of meming, him and mall in collaboration,

doing all of the extra. Media manager. Get that nigga. Get that nigga. They were doing, so it's a lot of that going on. Yeah. Well, can I stop you?

I don't know if he's aggressor after the like that verse started everything, but. That's the way he had trying to paint it, man. I'm not trying to tour. Drake was on tour. Drake was on tour. How was he aggressive?

I'm not trying to. The number one song he had, Jay Cole is bigging this guy up on the record with Drake. Put him in the three, the big three. He was part of the big three, according to Jay Cole, because Drake never felt like that. But according to Jay Cole, yeah. You're talking about things that play out in public. I'm not saying anything.

I'm just saying that you don't know what went on behind the scenes. Some of it, I know. Okay. But I will never speak on publicly. Because of certain things I will never speak on. It's certain shit I know right now that. if I said right here on this platform, it would shake the entire industry up.

Same. And I will never do that. Same. I will never do it. Exactly. So there you have it. So with that being said, with those things said and being not said,

if Drake is the aggressor and that's counterpunching, I think that the playing field will be more even killed because there's the lack of social media. He got a lot of blowback because it's like this big red button and like, oh my God. And then also like, it was a lot of corny shit that was happening. Like taunting the aunt. That's lame as fuck to me.

Ant is like a legger fan. He don't do nothing and he don't bother nobody. And is out the way. Great person. And it's an amazing guy, right? That was lame and corny, right? Just doing, see, I have a problem with bullies. If you were from Chicago, would you feel like this?

Or was it because you're from California? No, I had nothing to do with that. I don't like bullies. I don't get a fuck worried about it. No, but you being from California. You don't think that that has anything to do with your stance on this whole thing. I'm from New York. I'm not from Toronto.

No, but I also think you have a different affinity for your person than I do. Like I actually- An affinity as far as what? Personally? Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So how long y'all been cool or friends? Years.

Like, how long? First met Drake, maybe 2012, 11, 12? But how long have y'all had a rapport like you got now? For a couple of years Like how many? Maybe like two or three years All right so y'all have a report for like two or three These are my friends for 18 years

So yeah it's gonna be different You know what I'm saying Like I know these dudes for 18 years That's not the same thing That's not music business That's not anything My answer would be the same No matter where I'm from

Depending on if you're asking Me an objective opinion About what's going on Versus my friendships or my homies Or whatever the case So there's a certain level of bias Is what I'm asking you No the bias comes

from my relationship with the people, not what's playing out. I can call it straight. But it affects it. Absolutely. If you want to paint me with a brush, that's fine. Because what it really is is we're more like than we are different. You're going to publicly, you're going to ride with your people.

But when y'all get behind closed doors, you're going to say, yo, you was wrong. Publicly, you will never say it. No, no, no, no. I don't believe it. See, I was taught that. That's one thing I do push back on the way that I was brought up amongst the the people that I came up with is I don't believe in that right or wrong shit. If you're wrong, you're wrong.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is if we're out together somewhere and you're with your best friend of 20 years and he does something stupid. It's happened. He grabs the girl's ass in the club. Big fight happens. In that moment, you're going to stand there and fight with your boy. Am I? Well, you, you, hey, we're not doing this.

Yes, you are. You're not going to stand there. You're going to stand there watching a man get beat up? I would probably intervene in a certain way, but I don't think I would have the same energy had he not been in the wrong. Okay. If your boy grabs the girl's ass and you DJing,

your man next to you in the booth, he drunks, he grabs a girl ass, her man standing right there. They start pouncing on your homeboy. You're going to keep blending, nigga, or you're going to get in the fucking field and start helping your man that's getting, they're playing hopscotch on his back? I don't think what I'm saying to you is I would intervene,

but it wouldn't be in the same capacity. What do you mean? So in what capacity would you intervene? Would you say on the mic, hey, guys, stop? No. Stopping something and de-escalating is different than acting, than getting in the field. Okay, so if your boy was getting beat up based off the axes he did, are you going to help?

This has happened before in my life. Okay, so, and I de-escalated. So somebody was getting, your boy was getting jumped and you didn't throw a fist at all? There was, I wouldn't say didn't throw a fist. Okay, all right. That's all I'm saying. Even if he was wrong, you're going to hold your man down. But when y'all get back to the set, yo, you was wrong.

that whole fucking situation. Not, it doesn't go, it's not a, it's, that's, to me, that's a great. That's not a one-to-one to me. It depends on what's going on. I just told you, he, your boy does something crazy. He, he, he caused the situation. But grabbing ass to me, it's not the same thing as a scenario that I was in. Okay, what's the scenario you was in, Payne of For you?

I'm not going to talk about that. Why not? We don't need the names. We just need the situation. That's when I can't, I'm not going to talk about that. Okay. Okay. Well, let's move forward.

I have a question. You guys bought up, well, we bought up the internet and its effect on this battle. both of you guys were heavy on the internet and involved in the cultural commentary when it came to this battle. Do you think that the cultural commentary that you both provided had any effect on the public perception

of who won this battle? Do you think you guys moved any sticks or stones or moved any tiles, any which way when it comes to these two artists? I'll answer first. I don't think anything that I said or did move any... I think that, you know, people obviously look to my platform

for any type of little tidbits that they could get. But as far as the result or people's feelings on the record, I think once you get the record, no matter what anybody says, I think people have their own, like, I like this record. Well, some people don't, but most people have that. I like this record. I'm fucking with this record. Or not.

No matter what an influencer or a podcast that says, I don't think that's going to affect how somebody feels about a song that they're listening to in their personal time and their personal space. But, you know, obviously people look to platforms to kind of get inside. and a little behind the scenes, things that they can get. Again, there's certain things that I know that I would never say publicly. I would never speak publicly because there's a reason these conversations were private. But, you know, I can speak matter of fact when certain things come up because I know certain things.

And, you know, I'm privy to certain information. But I would never disclose that information publicly. Like, so I don't think it, my words or anything I said in that moment. persuade anybody's opinions on the record that they got. I think that my words resonated with some people that heard the records and they felt the same way I feel. That I believe, but I don't think I swayed anybody's opinion or anything like that, no. Okay.

Head, what do you think? I assume no responsibility for anything that's transpired over the last calendar year in hip-hop. It's interesting. Your name might. You, what's your name in that, Rico or something out there? Man, you all right? Negative. See that's crazy to put on somebody.

No, no, no, I asked the question. I didn't put it on you. I asked. Okay, well, let me ask this kind of based off her question. Mall, you posting the red button, head the cryptic tweets, the way you, daylight, and a few other people through that entire battle, you're not about to tell me that was just like, oh, I was just tweeting. Like, I feel like everyone knew what they were doing here.

And everybody was in contact. Because everyone was looking for you for OVO stuff and you. on the PG-Lang, TDE, Kendrick's side. You guys are both very intelligent. I feel like you guys knew what you were doing when you were posting those things. So you don't think you had any effect when you were daylight

or people we know that are close to the camps said something. No, I know that people, like, to be honest, you can ask my team. I was completely oblivious until, like, damn near until, like, euphoria dropped. Do you feel like you made it seem like you knew what was going on? No, no, I was aware of stuff that was going on, but it wasn't like I was acting on behalf of anybody.

Okay. You know what I'm saying? Like, I was aware. Like, you got to understand. Like, that's why I was just trying to explain. Like, I don't have to, like, certain people, I don't have to talk to them to know what they own. That's just a different texture. It's a different rapport that I have with people like that, your camaraderie that you have with your homies.

Sometimes you probably will sit in this chair and know what mall is on before he even says it. It's just camaraderie that you build with your brothers. Like, I don't have to talk to anybody and know. Like, if you say, if something happens, I wouldn't have to get on the phone and call nobody and be like, oh, yeah, that's what he on. I already know what he own because I know him. You know what I'm saying? So I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say like, oh, I'm not.

I don't know. And no, I had an idea, but I wasn't at that point, I wasn't acting on behalf of anybody. I'm just like, yo, I'm not. Also, let me back up. You got to understand. around the push-ups time, there was nobody defending the homie. I took that personal.

How so? Wait, and what you mean nobody was defending? Yeah, that's what I'm curious. What no one was the- rappers? No. People who I thought would be boisterous and have-

People with platforms. People with platform, not even podcasters. Anyone with a platform who are with us, who came up with us, who are homies and friends and break bread with us, No one was saying anything.

So I'm like, well, you know, I'll say something. Like, I know, like, you know, this is what the, don't, don't, nobody was a defending the homie. And I didn't like that. But when you say defending him, defending him against what, though? The meme coin that is Drake. So you didn't feel like anybody was defending Kendrick against memes that Drake was putting out? Nobody was just, nobody was proactively saying anything about nothing. Everybody was just waiting to see.

Like, like, nah, bro. But see, that's where I feel like, that's where I feel like this turned into a West Coast versus Drake thing. No. Exactly what's saying? Nobody's defending. Defending Kendrick for Drake posting a meme? Like, what would somebody say? Like, oh, Drake, you corny for that.

Well, as you know, there are conversations that happen all the time. But no one's, no one's emboldened enough to have an opinion of, like, publicly is what I'm saying. I get that. But I mean. Like, don't, don't, don't, don't. hide your support for me. Yeah, but I think people was waiting for the music

to support, to show that support, not show support against holding Kendrick down against a meme. I'm not talking about the meme. I'm just saying like, this is after a record already came out. You know him just like I know. You know what's about to happen.

Don't be back channeling and be quiet about your support. To me, that's not, that's disingenuous. You know what I mean? But do you think that also happened to Drake once the public perception went towards Kendrick.

So I think we're just talking about like wishy-washy people in general that they're just going to go to whatever side is happening at the moment. Agreed. Which is why I operated the way I operated.

I'm not wishy-washy type motherfucker. I hear that. You didn't think it was crazy at the pop out to see certain people on that stage that Drake has helped along their journey and that has publicly supported

Drake stand on that stage and celebrate a song calling him a pedophile? No. You didn't think it was nothing crazy about that? Mm-hmm. You ain't look at nobody like, yo, but ain't that your man?

Nope. All right. Would you do that? Do what? If somebody had been your friend for, I don't know, 20 years, had met your kids, been in your house, and then someone else called them a pedophile that you don't even really have a relationship with like that.

Would you be dancing at a show? It depends on the violation that that person put me in that position. Hmm. Okay. Fair. We'll do that. So, I mean, I mean, I don't know the relationship between LeBron and Drake for real.

I don't know if he ever violated him. But we're just speaking in hypotheticals now. Of all the things that we saw there, more or less. Hypothetically speaking. If you violate me. Okay. So we're just going to assume that a crazy violation happened between me and my son walking out with you at your L.A. show to then like a few weeks later, now I'm dancing with a mask on. Oh, you're talking about like the athletes and shit.

Yeah, and I'm not talking about any specific people that I felt like... I thought he said on stage. LeBron wasn't on stage. I meant just in general at the pop-out show. He wanted to be. He was looking at Russell. Yeah, Savannah was like, nigga, you ain't doing that. Like, no.

So to my point, not everybody's as invested as I am. Fair. You know what I'm saying? Like Ma said, like, he met him in 2012 and they got cool over the last few years. These are my people for 18 years. That's not the same thing, right? Let's start there. Second thing is you got to look at LeBron.

Remember in the top of the show, I said sometimes business is just business. Everybody that you sign to a record label or having your album you're not necessarily friends with, it's just, oh, this person fits on the project or let's do some business or let's make some money together, whatever the case may be. That's not the same thing. So I'm not, I'm just hear me out. Yeah. So what I'm saying is if I don't owe you shit, I don't owe you anything. Like if I'm going to go to this popping ass concert, I'm going to go to the popping ass concert. I'm going to go to the pop and ass concert. It has nothing to do with our relationship.

Again, that's me being probably a little spectrum, being able to compartmentalize my relationships and my emotions. But I would assume that's the same thing for most people, or for a lot of men, is being able to, hey, let's truncate our emotions and let's just go enjoy this show or whatever. And I fully agree with that point there. And again, we're using the hypothetical. He don't agree with that.

He don't believe that. He just said he was mad about people not showing their support publicly for Kendrick when Drake was dropping me. But I didn't, I wasn't talking about athletes that he does. They're talking about people that he knows. Yeah, for 20 years. Oh, and I just said it was 18. 20 years, we've, what they both explained, that LeBron has said out loud, he's been in my house with my kids.

Like, they have a real relationship. I don't really know any real business they've done together outside of maybe both being signed to Sprite. No, no, I'm not saying that they've done business. I was using that as a hypothetical. Me too. Again, we don't know that. I don't look at Bron and Drake from what we know as they were a business relationship that had met a few years ago.

No, no, I'm not, I'm not drawing that parallel. He just, he introduced that. So that was a different scenario. What I'm saying is, overall, I don't think it's that deep for most people. Okay. I come from radio. The average listener don't give a fuck. They just want to hear a popping ass on.

You know what I'm saying? It's just like on YouTube. If you, you know, like y'all have a pod. If you do a YouTube, you might see, you know, 50% or 48% of you guys are not subscribed to the channel. Right. Right. It's just passive consumption.

So I don't think it's personal if LeBron or this person goes to the fucking concert, bro. Like, it's a concert that they want to go be at and they want to have a good time. I don't look at it as me saying, fuck you. It's just like this is a concert I want to be at. Yeah, but then y'all, you y'all was mad that game wasn't there. I was mad. Not Hugh, but a lot of people from the West Coast, a lot of artists, they was, you know, kind of gave games some heat online. Like, he wasn't there.

He didn't show support. for the West Coast and all of the artists collectively coming together and having a beautiful moment. Who gave him he don't lie? Game addressed it. He spoke about it online. No, no, but I'm saying who was saying that? I'm just saying, I don't know who in particular, but Game obviously had some energy and some words coming his way, and he felt inclined to go on IG live or post a video on IG explaining why he wasn't there. You know, he does what he want to do.

Drake is his brother, whatever, whatever, whatever. So obviously he felt some heat from him not being at that show. So again, there is a thing where people feel like, yo, like I can't support that. Now, Gain may support Kendrick. He may love Kendrick, but he can't support that show because in that moment, that song, that message and who is who is going at, who it's attacking is somebody else who he has a fondness of or brotherhood where he's like, yo, I can't, I can't support that. I love Kendrick.

I love my city. I support my city. But I can't support that moment because that song and that message in that song is going at somebody, excuse me, who I respect and who I have a love for and I can't do that. So, yeah, people, people, some people on that stage knew that they weren't supposed to be there. But, you know, again, it's people looking for, you know, the capitalized off a moment. Like, you know, it's a streaming. We know how many people are going to be watching this.

Everybody want to be seen. And, you know, I get it. But you can't say that, you know, know, oh, I'll just, you know, it's the music and I can support how I want. There is a thing, though, where, yes, it is music, but I know this dude personally on a personal level, and I can't support that because me and him have a relationship where he's done, you know, we've done things for each other, show me to my family love, open his home to me, I've opened my home to him. So there's a certain thing where, like, I can't support that. I love Kendrick. You know,

I love my city. I love a lot of those guys on the stage, but I can't be there because that, moment is, you know, it's going at somebody who I also have a love for. Yeah, that's everybody's choice to make. No, but that's, I'm just speaking to, you know, the fact that certain people were there, and yes, they might want to just be there to support Kendrick, but you know what that moment it was about. And it's like, I can't, you know. Everybody can make their decision, but it was, I mean, it was a lot of people there.

No, absolutely. It was a lot of people there. But some of those people, a lot of those people that was there, they knew that it was like, this is going to look a table. This is going to look away. Like I'm in at this show supporting this record. The song is playing. I'm on stage dancing to it.

I'm in the video. All of that, we know what that is. That's very strategic shit. That's very thought out shit. That's not just I'm going to a show to have a good time. Because I'm going to the show to have a good time. I'll be in the skybox and won't nobody know I'm there. But if I'm on stage and I start dancing and I start and then at the end of picture,

that's I want to be seen. I'm making I'm here. Well, to be fair, there's no skybox. boxes at the forum. Well, at the forum, no. But I could have been in that building and not been on the stage, is what I'm saying. Being on the stage is a statement.

I stand by this. I support this message. I know people that were on the stage that just got up there and they weren't trying to make a statement. I'm not going to speak for them, but... They have a personal relationship with Drake? They have a rapport, yeah. Not a rapport, a personal relationship with Drake. I don't know what the nature

of the relationship is. All right. Moving forward, and we're going to wrap this up, soon. Head, I have a question. Maw went viral a lot. Both of you did, but Maw has this type of platform, so he really went viral a lot with a lot of clips talking about Drake in the battle. What was your perception of Moll and the clips and the messaging in those clips? All first look, not now. What do you mean? Like, back then? Yeah, back then. And you'll be honest, we won't jump you.

Yeah, your man, Jeremy has some slick shit to say. Well, there was a lot of people, I don't personally, I don't, if I'm being honest, I don't personally to give it a fuck. Like, I don't ingest other people's energy like that. Like, I don't, like, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, that's not really what I do, but there are a lot of people who felt away. Why would they feel away? Was there anything he said that was a violation or over the line or anything crazy? I don't remember everything he said, um, I remember there was one thing in particular, um, where people had, where somebody, I think someone had made, reference somebody said i don't remember when i don't remember what you said but there were people

that were upset what you said i wish i could remember the context but it was just like because you because you come off as very delusional in the way that you approach your like your argument i love that yeah i i actually envy it to be honest with you yeah i love that i come off delusional because i know exactly what the fuck i'm saying and why i'm saying it yeah But again, I can't speak on certain things publicly. Why do you feel he comes off delusion? And were all of these people from Cali that felt like that? Nah.

Mm-hmm. Well, you said why? Yeah. Just very, like, some of the stuff is very far-fetched and Narnia-ish. What's far-fetched that I said? Yeah, such as. So you're saying you don't remember what he's saying. No, I don't remember what he said.

Like, friends, like the thing you said today. Like, nobody can convince you otherwise. About what? about your stance on... Who had the better bars? Who won or whatever, right? Yeah. Okay.

So to me, like for instance... But why is that delusion for me? And it's people that write music and rappers that rap at a very high level that feel the same way. So I... To me, that's just not a very whole human. Fuck music. Anybody who has a stance that you can't convince me otherwise of anything, no matter what you present. No, no, no, not anything.

I'm talking about these bars that you can't convince me that... So what I'm saying is, as opposed to... to having that approach, the approach will probably be, will present it to me and I make an assessment. You shutting down the presentation, the presentation of any assessment, to me, that's more of a personal thing than it is a rap thing. Me shutting down. Like you're saying, nobody can convince me otherwise, no matter what. You're shutting down any and all energy.

That Drake had, didn't have the better bars? Correct. Yeah, because I listen to the music. That's true. And I trust my ear and my brain. I feel you. But that's just not where I am. So that's just what I'm.

So do you feel that if somebody doesn't have the same opinion as you, they're delusional? No. Okay. So I guess I'm trying to figure out exactly what you're saying. So when people feel like, because me and Mall disagreed, but we talked it out. I mean, of course the clips went viral, but there were 45-minute conversations with that entire thing. So even if we disagreed, I didn't think Mall was delusional and not hearing me.

I just felt that's how Mall felt. And music to me, I don't think you could. be delusional because music is like food. It's whatever you're going to taste. It's only delusional because it wasn't, it wasn't resonating what other people felt in the battle. That's what it's delusioned. Because if I was saying, yo, Kendrick is smashing him.

Everybody's like, yo, that n'em all know what he's talking about. And other people is other people with social media we can't. I'm more, I guess, asking, hey, what you mean by that. Like, I don't know if he didn't receive information. I just think that's how he felt the same way this way you felt. No, no, no. I'm not saying in that sense. I'm not saying that

I'm saying to me, like, creating a world in which no one can pull you out of, no matter what, no matter what it is, I don't, I don't occupy that space. Like, I'm willing to, like, I've had conversations with, like, skinheads, like, Aryan Brotherhood, neo-Nazi motherfuckers. Dudes would, like, shwash go on their necks. And they're like, you know, I don't like these type of, these, this group of people. I don't like black people. It's like, for me, I want to know why.

And not necessarily for them to change my mind on how I feel. but I'm open to any possibility. Him saying there's nothing you can do to me, shuts down the realm of any possibility. I said it was nothing you could do to me. Had, is there anything anybody can do to convince you that Drake won this battle? Present it, present it to me.

I'm open to hearing it. But you heard family matters? You've heard all that. That's not a good enough. You don't think he, you don't think, you don't think Drake rap better than Kendrick on Family Matters than, then Kendrick on, not like us? No.

you think Kendrick rapped better. No, but I'm willing to, I'm willing to receive presentation. Do you want me to play it? No. So the purpose, the purpose of us asking these follow-up questions is, I get what you're saying where you can say that someone's delusional if they can't be convinced of something and they're shutting down all outside perspectives. But in a rap battle, there's only the bars and the music.

So if you've heard and dissected both songs, just because someone, are you saying that If I brought up the lyrics to a song you already know, you've already heard and present them to you differently, there's a chance that you would change your mind about this battle. You think that that's possible. Anything is possible. But that's not what I was making reference to about delusion. It was a thing when I was saying when you asked me before, like, has he said something? He said something that made me think he was delusional before. Okay. I wasn't making it reference to right now. Damn, I wish you were. Me too. Yeah, me too. What I said that? Well, I said that would seem like I'm delusion. Just because you asked me getting a man. You know, we know it.

You know me. Like, I, when it, you, so before this battle, have you ever thought Marl's delusional? Yes. When? Bro, are you wanting me to recall? Yes. Okay, well. If I said I think head is delusional, I can tell you why I think.

Okay. Well, I'll recanted because I can remember right now. Okay. I'll let you know, I'll let you know for sure. We do have access to the viral, the two viral clips of Mall if you'd like us to play them and see if you find a delusional moment in them. No. I mean, I don't, he asked me from before, too.

Like, there's been several moments where I was like, oh, that's kind of, that's kind of out there. Okay. That's fair. But does that warrant the word delusion? Delusion? There's a lot of things that I've disagreed with plenty of people, but we just have far different opinions on this.

I don't view that as delusion to me is a pattern amongst your entire life. No, delusion. Then it is based off something we disagree with and can't come to terms. Delusion as in reality adjacent. But that has to be a pattern because there's some stuff that is probably reality adjacent to me, but it's few things. It's not a pattern with me where everything is that far fucking fetched. But there's certain topics that I do feel that.

I wouldn't call somebody that delusion. If that is a significant thing that is in your life with everything that you face, that's delusion. If somebody said, yo, I think nah's won over Jay. And I start breaking down every fact that Jay said in takeover and it be in the doors, being a better song. And they were like, nah, I like dick sucking lips better. I'm not going to call them delusional. We just disagree there. That's a fair statement.

that's just like you said it's subjective yeah i just feel like delusional my god we're gonna hang on this i'm a strong statement i don't know if you still i don't know if you still i will i will go back and look and try to figure out where i where i had those those thoughts it's been like two maybe two or maybe three i don't know and i and i'll and i'll send them to you okay all right cool that's a bit um to close out thank both you guys for for this i think this was actually good. I feel like this battle has put Stan culture in a different light for me, and I don't think either of you guys

are that whatsoever. I think the reflection of what happened in this battle made Eminem Stan song seem normal. Like Lockheared girl in a trunk before what I've seen on this fucking timeline. This battle turned the world into a very weird fucking place. I thought this was going to be the greatest thing ever for hip-hop and I feel like it may have been the fucking worst.

So to see you two sit down and just chop it up for the year anniversary, I do think this is important. Not that the stands have any sense whatsoever. That's delusion to me. Is the OVO community and the TDE community, that's delusion. Very much so. So I don't think they're going to look at this and be like, oh, two people can just talk and like everything be fine. Like, we could just have different opinions. So I think this was great.

And I want to end it with positivity. Maul. Say something nice about Kendrick. Lamar. You said what? Say something nice about Kendrick Lamar. Say something nice about Kendrick? Yeah.

Well, I mean, I feel like I've been, I've always said, what? I didn't even say nothing yet. Why are you laughing? I've always, I've always throughout, throughout this entire, you know, year that we, we just came through. I don't think I've ever, oh, it was never my attention. But I don't think I ever said it. I've never downplayed Kendrick's skill set, his ability, his status as an emcee as a rapper. Not my question.

Say something nice about Kendrick Lamar. Like what? I don't know him personally. Saying y'all I didn't downplay you is not saying something. Him as a rapper. Him as a whatever you. I don't know him as a person, so I can't say. As a rapper.

He's one of the ill. But I've always said this. He's one of the illus. He's one of the best of his generation. Like I like, I went to Mr. Moral show with Rory, said it was one of the best. best rap shows I've ever been to. Kendrick's stage performance has gotten a million times better. He's a star. Like, I've said all of these things already, but because in the battle, I wasn't on the side of thinking Euphoria or Meet the Grams was amazing. People felt like I hate Kendrick.

And I'm like, yo, did you not just see everything I said about him when Mr. Morrell came out? And I said the album was incredible and he could probably turn that into a Broadway play because it plays like a playbook. Like I said all of these things about Kendrick. I fuck with Kendrick. I think he's amazing. I just think that in this moment, he said things that's kind of like, ah, that's a little crazy to say that and put that on another man. I don't like the record.

Not saying Kendrick. I've never said Kendrick isn't dope and he can't rap. You will never find me anywhere on the internet saying that. So, I mean, something nice about him. Yo, keep fucking putting out dope-ass bars. Keep putting out dope projects. Like, keep doing your thing on tour. Like, do all of that.

I wish you stop performing that fucking record. I think that that's crazy. You don't need to perform that record. And that's to me, It's a, it's like you're making that a point to perform that record. Because his catalog is dope. He doesn't need to perform that record. But, you know, I get it.

Have your victory lap. But I just think that at some point, you got to get away from that record because that energy, that message is like, that's disgusting to be out there rapping or even saying that word on stage every night. Like, I've seen the Jay Knoss battle kissing beans and all these dudes that I grew up listening to. That's never a word anybody ever. even throughout there.

Like, you don't play with that words. I come from that. So that's why I'm always speaking to that because it's like, yo, you heard what you just said about this, dude? Like, that's a little, you throwing that on some, a man's jacket is the worst thing

you can put on somebody. So to me, I just don't like that. I don't like that message. How I had said is certain things he just don't feed into. That's not his frequency. That I'm not even, I'm just like, all right,

once I hear that, I'm not even listening to that no more. You know, but that's me. And I'll stand on that. But as far as me saying something nice about, Kendrick is amazing. He's an amazing artist, amazing phenomenal rapper, and I'm looking forward to hearing what else he got he got for us. Like, I don't have nothing negative to say about Kendrick other than that not like us record to me. I hate it.

I don't like it. And I think that Drake had the better bars in the battle. I'll stand and I'll die on that. Okay. I appreciate the final thoughts. And I agree with a lot of what you said. Maul, can you say something nice about Kendrick Lamar? He says. Kendrick is a phenomenal rapper. He's a phenomenal emcee. He makes good music. Ma, thank you. He has a great stage show.

Thank you for your candor. Yeah. What are you saying? DJ Head, can you say something nice about Drake? You still one of them ones, King. Let this shit go. Get back to the rap. No key to him on Spotify.

Can you say something nice? I just did. I say you still. Without saying something negative. You still one of them ones, bro. do you. I don't think the therapist would accept it. It's fine.

Do you mean? Yeah. And then with do you is not saying something. No, get him pushback the way y'all gave me pushback. I just didn't give you any pushback. I think you did an amazing job. Do you is not a compliment. Yeah.

Do you? He's been doing him. Give me, do you. That is. No, he should be telling kids to do him and stop performing not like us. Say that. I like the record. You don't like that fucking record.

I don't like that fucking record. No, you don't. I've been in your parties. I know this shit. you play. What party you come to? I've been, hey, you don't think I've ever been a parties that you DJed? Are you, are you high right now? Which party? Had, I've been going to your party since probably 2014, 2015, 2016. What are you talking about? I don't DJ that many parties.

You've DJed a private party I was at in the hills, at a house. What the fuck are you talking about right now? Did I play the record? No, this is years ago. This was before the record. And I've been with mall at parties that you've rejected. Really? Yeah, what the fuck is he talking about right now? Listen, I'm being out, I don't have a good memory. I don't. Hey, you don't got to remember, but you remember every fucking thing. Your name is DJ Head. Yeah, like, what the fuck?

Yeah, there's trauma. Ah. So, let me do my nice thing again. Go back to three or whatever. Do you guys have any final thoughts for each other? Okay. Final thoughts for each other? Yes.

I mean, shout out to head. Shout out to everything that you're doing. Somebody that I, you know, I've supported and I've had, you know, I like everything about you. Anytime we've ever met and seen each other in LA, it's always been. nothing but love and respect. Love the space that you in now. Shout out to you. Shout out to West Coast,

Ellis Coast, Wilson. West Coast Wilson. Jeremy asked him some wild shit to say, fuck Jeremy. No, I'm just joking. I don't know. And shout to Jeremy.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm just, shout to Jeremy. Shout to Emily. Shout to Gina. Gina. Shout to Gina. Chia.

We would love to have you on the show. Hold it down for the black women. Yeah, I love everything that you got going on. You know, and I love the fact that you always keep it, you keep it, you keep it Callie. And I respect that. You know what I mean?

Like you stand on where you're from. You rep your city. You rep it proud. I got on my uptowns and that right now. Because you're out here. And you're in New York. I didn't notice that you were wearing Lakers and I saw the uptown. I thought he tried.

Well, this is because we, you know, we lost, we got bumped the first round. So this is kind of like just my. Omash. Yeah,

like, you know, it was better days at one point. Right now we had a little bit of a, you know, a funk. But shout out the head. Shout out to everything you're doing.

And yo, man, this last year has been, you know, watch the West Coast celebrate and all the artists, you know, pop out and perform. Like, it's been fun to see a lot of guys get some time to shine and get some, you know, light put on them because it is a lot of dope talent out of California that I think a lot of people kind of, you know, don't get to get a chance to really tap into. I agree.

And I respect Kendrick for taking that moment and sharing that moment. You know what I'm saying? Sharing that stage and sharing that platform with other artists don't like the message that it, you know, sent that my boy but either way love the fact that the city came together love the fact that the you know the culture came together for a night on stage and you know it was it was dope um I think anybody from anywhere has to salute that and respect that um so yeah man I'm you know shout to you and keep doing what you doing man thank you I appreciate y'all for having me had any final thoughts from all yeah thank you for having me on your platform uh for inviting the conversation

Shout out to what y'all have built post-battle. And that was, I know. That was a shot. That was a shot. No, I wasn't a shot. That was a what? It was a rap.

It was hip-hop. Temperature may be different over here. It felt like a shot over here. Shit was built pre-battle. I don't act like, I mean, you ain't. You ain't built too. You ain't built off the battle, too? No, no.

He was not talking about that. Oh, okay. He's not making shit. We're not monitoring anymore. I caught. You paper's been away. Tom, now, let's pop. I caught.

I got exactly what he was saying. I got exactly what he was saying. Yeah. Yeah, I respect. I respect it for sure. Yeah. And also, I think, like, being able to, being able to navigate this space and stand on opinions, no matter how they- Delusion, you know, I've seen.

I didn't say that. I know. You know, how, you know, while they are. And also, I'm going to share something with you. Yeah. You being a New York, a New York native. Yeah. I respect you being a Lakers fan.

Mm-hmm. Ugh. Just, that's something I don't respect about all. Our entire production team was like, okay, let's not do this. It doesn't matter about it. You told us that, you told me, you asked me for my words. I'm telling him. Let head have his words, man.

I respect you being a Lakers. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, when the time is right, I'm pretty sure you'll probably, you know, make the move as well. To L.A.? Nah, I can't live in L.A., man. So I'm just saying.

Taxes. Trying to get away from him. I wouldn't say that on camera. Oh, no, no. We're going to move to a state. What are we doing here, guys? You know, tax evasion is a felon. No, not evasion.

Not evasion. I'm not evaded. Tax deferrence is legal. I just live somewhere where there's no taxes. Got you. 180 days. Yeah, that's it. We don't buy the book. IRS is not.

Well, I've nothing else to offer. That was crazy. Well, you know, I'm trying to get away from these taxes. Yeah, that's it. I love L.A. You know, that's like one of my homes. I love L.A. shout to L.A., but I can't live there. Oh, also I'll give y'all compliment too.

We've actually, I've actually had this conversation internally with a couple people. Y'all's live show is really good. It's the greatest live. Thank you, bro. Your live show is really good because a lot of people don't have as much crowds. interaction and engagement as you guys do, and that being the cornerstone of your live show. Yeah. People don't understand that.

People are so vain. They think they just want to sit there and watch you talk. Hell no. I want to do that. God know. Y'all live show and the way that you've curated that is stellar. Yeah. I mean, we want to give the people the opportunity that talk shit to us and say we ain't shit

and this, that and third. All right, so then you say something. Let's see who you are. Like that's with the whole premise of the live show. But I respect. I remember when I went to go see y'all live show in L.A. I was like, damn, this shit is good because y'all. because y'all like most people don't understand live versus pod right so right and and what sucks

with the live shows though is that when we go to l.A. we have to pay new york tax on what we make on the live show then we have to pay California tax on what we do with the live show so as much as the live show is grace man fuck them live shows yeah yeah yeah entertainment tax i mean what the fuck that was yeah yeah i don't know who that i don't even i don't even know tainment i look at who is that i don't have nothing to do with that you might want to holler at uh eric garcetti i mean sorry caring paring bas i You know what I'm saying? Yeah, no, for sure. Last nerdy, nerdy question, real, real quick, even if they cut it.

Do you still stand by your tweet that... He said day, like he's not day. No, I'm a nerd. That's why I'm asking the question. He ain't day. Do you think that every hit record needs to be at 101 BPM posts, not like us? No. That was the only egregious delusional tweet I think I've ever seen from you.

What did I say? You said, everyone gear up. If you want to make a hit record, it has to be at 101 BPM. That's not what I said. Like us. Someone pull it up. Pull up to tweet. I'm very tired.

I'm very. A one-on-one BPM. As a DJ, have you, any event that you've DJed recently, have you played Nokia? Yeah. I played it when I went out to London. It's great, right. I mean, yeah. London, that's going to go crazy.

Yeah. Girls love that song. Yeah. And a great conversation. It's good to see you. And let the West Coast know, it's still all love over here. You know what I'm saying? Hey, you let them know.

Because I don't think they know. It's always love. It's always love. I love L.A. You got to come, come to let them know. Absolutely. I got to come to y'all show, man. I got to come kick it with y'all. Come pull up.

Talk some shit with y'all. Yeah, thank you all for having me. It's new Rory and Ma. I'm that nigga. He's just ginger. Peace. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me.

Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok.

On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future.

This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities,

they failed. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption.

On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail to talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to bench, featuring powerful conversation with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this group, I'm going to die. Listen to the Cino show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.