New Rory & MAL - Episode 439 | Underrated

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

Rory and Mal revisit Mal’s take on Fabolous being a better rapper than Jadakiss. We take some of your IG comments on the debate and respond to them. Plus, we list our most underrated rappers, and Mal drops a shocking take on who his most overrated rapper is #volume All lines provided by hardrock.betSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green. Co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup.

Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. In important news, only fans motto claims New Orleans Pelicans player, Zion, William, has fathered her child. What's up with you, man? My man, that's not my own, no. I don't know him.

I mean, I'm not mad at anyone that has a type. Is that real? Or is I just like another? Here's the thing. I don't know, but I'm going to go with probably. They be posting fake like DMs from him like trying to holl at like. the most random like celebs and it's like that's not people who think it's real is not real. So I just don't know if that information is real.

Yeah. I'm going to go with yes. Okay. Just based off patterns. Okay. Like, shout out my nigga Gucci. Shout out my nigga Zion. Do you think that's something that like may need rehab?

What? Going on OnlyFans? Well, I mean, I think anything access could probably need to go to rehab. But if I'm not saying this about Zion because everything could be false in the. the headlines. But if you just directly are obsessed with sex workers specifically and are constantly being exposed for either getting them pregnant or you're all in their DM, like at some point you think maybe there's something tied to this that could be an addiction problem. Like you're not just like out here dating. You're finding a specific type of woman for a specific type of reason,

which always ends up getting you jammed up. Well, I mean, you don't want to, there's nothing wrong with a woman doing OnlyFans. If that's the context, she wants to create. Oh, no. I'm just saying like, I'm not saying that at all. Only fan creators. Zion is young.

He's, he's rich. Maybe he doesn't want a serious relationship. Maybe he just wants to, you know, have fun with different beautiful women. I think impregnating these women that you have no intentions on, you know, being a family with and like raising children and just, you know, paying child support. I think that's an issue. But I think being young, rich and wanting to have sex with beautiful women, I don't think that that's cause for rehab now. Again, creating families and children and not being there for children

and just thinking that child support money is going to, you know, be enough for a child. I think that's a problem. I think that when it gets to that, because doesn't he have a, he has another child, right? With another, was it, what was the Moriah Mills thing? Was she pregnant or? I thought would, she, did he have a baby on her and she was mad and something like that? It was something weird like that. She was a bit like, one flow, over the cuckoo's nest, put the cuckoo back in the clock type of person. But a lot of the stuff I think she said was probably true. And I do think Zion really did wife that girl. Like you're saying you just are fucking sex workers and keeping it moving. Nah, he liked that girl. Which is fine.

There's nothing wrong with that. But I don't want to even make it just a only fans or sex worker thing because that's not really what I'm saying. If your man's was like only targeting bank tellers. Like that's his, he only fucks women that work at the bank. You'd probably have some questions of, like, I don't know if it's just you're targeting attractive women. Like, are you about to go, are you about to go to crazy spree and rob banks? There has to be a reason why you're doing this. That's what I'm getting at with, because we see, um, shit, rumors of James Harden, um, a bunch of NBA players that we can see the type of IG-esque stereotype women that they go after. But that looks more like you may have a sex addiction for,

with fat asses and big lips. This, like, the only thing every woman has in common in all of these rumors is that they are prostitutes. So, I mean, young, rich, you just want to pay for it and kind of like, just have fun. Like, you know, that's, again, I don't even think Zion is 25 yet, is he? Like, he might not even be 25, 26, maybe. Yeah, that range. Again, I'm not making this a Zion thing.

I just think with certain patterns, I think when you're young and rich, you should ask some questions of like. Yeah, but not. somebody's young as Zion is and has the money that Zion has. It's like he's having fun. Like, you know, now if he's approaching retirement and still doing that, it's like, all right, bro, you all right? Like, but being like in your 20s and rich and being on only fans and dating only fans, girls, it's like, I don't think there's nothing wrong. But again, I just think that when you start having, you know, these families and children or with different multiple women,

I don't think it's healthy. I just think it's a lot unhealthy to do that. And I don't know what, what that kink or addiction could be, but I still think. like if we see a woman just targeting pro athletes, they have nothing really in common outside of money and fame. You'd be like, I know what that woman wants. Yeah. Money.

So I'm just curious what the people that just go after this type of woman at all times after it's backfired on them, God knows how many times in public. Like, you have an issue. That's what young comes in at. He's young. He's young. You don't know yet. He don't get it.

I thought the point of paying sex workers was for them to be quiet. Yes. I thought that was the whole point of that. But if you're having children with them, you can't expect them to be quiet about that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? They're getting on some Ralph Siparetto shit.

Yeah. Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, once you start having children with these women, it's like, okay, she's going to want child support and help raising this child. Like, man. Nancy Reagan did it? You can turn them around. I don't know about that one. Different, different culture.

Trump did it. Reagan did a lot of people have turned their queens around. Different culture. True. See? Different culture. Though I feel like America has entered that there's mail order brides that's domestic U.S.P. It's not a FedEx international thing.

You can now get a male order bride like in the States. We've become that culture for sure. Absolutely. And Zion's leading the charge. Leading the charge. It's starting forward. Starting forward, Zion Williams. I didn't think this Jada and Fav thing from our last episode would get as much of legs as it did, which made me very happy.

never know where the legs are going to go. Never. And here's the thing, because... I thought it was on sex workers, but apparently the legs are everywhere. I mean, of course, I still think people care about music and debating about music on the internet, but the internet has shamed New Yorkers for so long to tell us that nobody gives a fuck about our rappers but us. That's where I was like, oh, well, I mean, this is just a local conversation.

This shit got more legs than fucking Drake and Kendrick. Yeah. Like, they were debating in here, which I love to see. it didn't really skip people brought up some good points but it didn't really skew my perception i still think still think jada maybe a better rapper but i don't know no i agree with you did i think jada is a better rapper than fab i just think that fab is criminally underrated and that's the you know with a conversation i was trying to take it it was just like bro like we don't speak about fab i think the way we should.

We don't champion FAB the way I think it deserves. Somebody that was actively putting our music in the late 90s and then still being as relevant as he is today. We're talking about over 25 years. That's not easy for a lot of these rappers to do. Yeah. And, you know, we know if Fab, if it's, and not only has he been putting out, you know, and been acting out music in so long, the fact that there's still a demand, like people

still want soul tapes and still want, you know, summertime shootouts and want a new Fab album. Like for you to still be in demand like that with your fan base 25 years later, that speaks volumes and that speaks to, you know, your craft. And I think that that's something that people should speak to more. Like whether, you know, you have Fab, again, as just New York rappers, if you have Fab me, your top 5, 10, 20, whatever, that's all subjective. I just think that, you know, collectively, people need to really start identifying the fact that Fab has been out for so many years.

He's put out so many dope bars, songs, mixtapes, you know, good albums. And, you know, he's still very much relevant so many years later. You know, just look at the rest of the landscape of rappers where you know that. Like that does not happen for 25, 26 years. Kiss, too. Like, early 90s started releasing. Very deservedly. Still very much relevant today, whether he's podcast and I still think people want to hear new music from Jada.

But also, he's in that realm, which I guess we don't really honor in hip hop the way maybe rock and roll does, like, versus made Jada even more relevant off the material already put out. Like, Bruce Springsteen's always going to be relevant every year because he sings born in the USA at MetLife. Yeah. And everyone champions the back catalog of the older statesmen of other genres where it's like, no one goes. Like, no, they're not relevant. This is not relevant. Mm-hmm. But I thought Versus was actually great with that.

Because we saw not Jada have like a new career per se, but he got the flowers in recognition he deserved for his back catalog, which I think, you know, launched into some of the podcast stuff. Or, you know, them doing a tour. I just think that was very helpful for Jada just to prove his longevity. You know what I think it is too? I don't think I've ever heard anybody call Fab a legend. Okay.

I think that's what that's what bothers me. Like I don't think I hear people say, yo, Fab is a legend. The way they kind of put that legend tag on other emcees and rappers, it's like, bro, 26 years, 27, maybe longer than 26 years, Fab has been putting out music. I don't think you'll find someone in my age group in the Northeast that wouldn't say that. That's a rap fan. I think that wouldn't say that would all say that Fab is a legend. No, I think you would say that somebody. That's a very specific group.

I think you would say it if somebody brought the conversation to you. Oh, but I wouldn't just be running around like that. But you know how the same way you'd be like, we go, yo, Jada, legend, nah, it's legend. I think Fab belongs in that conversation. I don't just agree. I'm not saying he's as great as a rapper as a J.R. Nas. But when we start throwing out the legend hats and putting them in the ring, it's like, bro, y'all got to start looking at Fab and saying Fab's name or like 27 years, maybe even 28. years of putting out music?

Yeah. And like today, I'm talking about 2026, if Fab drops a summertime shootout or soul tape, people are going to go crazy about it. That's legendary shit. That's legacy status. Do you think if Fab just randomly announces one night only Madison Square Garden, he sells it up? Without a doubt.

Yeah. I saw A. Boogie do it. True. Yeah. But I do think there'd be a lot of people. that would think about that and be like, I don't know if Fab would 1,000% sell out the garden. Without a doubt.

But I guarantee you there will be a lot of people in the comments or even people you speak to that are of, are aware of who Fab is would be like, I don't know, bro. He may need to be Fab and friends. I'm kind of speaking to your point that I don't think Fab gets the just dude that he does. I mean, to put on a good show, yeah. Because you should say right away,

Fab is out selling the garden. Bring friends. Well, obviously what I'm saying. I'm not saying on the. the flyer, just fab. Oh yeah. We already know Favs bringing everybody else. Sold out. But I agree.

Sold out. The guard shows out. I think a lot of people would say no. Nah. And that's the issue I have. What's the guard? 18,000? You don't think Fab, if he has a show one night only New York City, Madisonville Garden. That's not going to, 18,000 people are not going to go to that? I mean, I think they would. Absolutely. Okay.

Does Kiss sell out the garden solo? I'm going to say, yes. but I'm not going to say that confidently. It would depend how it was promoted, I guess. I think the angle of how it was promoted, I think. Like, if he was promoting running through, I kiss the death album, like it would have to have some type of theme promotion to it,

I feel like. Okay. Because I, but I don't know. I mean, there's really not much difference between Kiss and Fab, I feel, as fans. So to say without question, Fab's selling it out, I feel like you should be able to say the same with kids. But it's the music.

Yeah. It's the songs. You know what I mean? I think more women show up to see a Fab show than a Jada show. How many nights do you think Fab could do at Barclays? Oh my God. He can, it could be him in the Nets. When the Nets go on like they roast.

If you're listening, let's, please do that. Yeah, 100%. Like, five in the nets, absolutely. Yeah. And it'd probably be the same group of Brooklyn people every day. It wouldn't, like, it wouldn't be new fans. Yeah, we go ahead. We go, you know what we're going tonight.

Back to the Barclays. Yeah. Like, you know, and I love. And the amount of, like, scam tickets, the Barclays after night one would be like, why are we in the red? We just sold out a show. Did everyone get in for free? It would definitely be a problem.

Absolutely. How did they sneak all these empty Casamigos bottles in here? The bar made what? Like, that was all we did last night? Looking at the ticket price of everything having a PayPal return to send a shit. Like, all right, cool. We'll eat it. Let's see what the bar did.

Let's see what the bar did. $800 at the Barclays Center. $800 at the Barclays would be great. Yeah. But that's all I was talking to, man. And I love having that conversation. I saw some people jumped in the comments section and some agreed, some disagreed. some disagreed.

Because I said, I feel like Fab is the most underrated rapper ever. And I do feel like that because again, when we just be having these conversations, I do a lot of listening and see a lot of lists and,

you know, and I'm just like, Fab don't get the, he don't get the notoriety and the talk that I think he deserves, man. But it was dope. Because he was one of the first

rappers that didn't have a crazy mystique because, like, times were changing. Whereas it used to be, be rapper put an album out, do a tour, disappear. There was mystique to Jay, to nod, even to DMX to some degree, even though he was, you know, you could just be walking through the Bronx and plays that.

Fab was, he changed with the times. He went with the internet. Like, he was made himself seen. He was out all the time. He was rap with the younger kids. Like, I think the less mystique you have from that era, maybe you get an oversight of the legend status. Because you're so accessible, like, you couldn't even think of that. person being a legend because they're outside every day.

Like you see, we knew every Fab joke ever in 2012. Like, he would talk to everyone on the internet. Like, I think that, that changed the perception. Now that doesn't matter.

Like, that's actually required of artists to do that and still be legends. But Fab was in that weird time of you're from the 90s cloth, but now you're, you're a 2000s rapper at the end of the day. Yeah. And like post-2010. So I think that probably changed it as well,

where Kiss was in the bad boy, the Rough Rider's Mystique era then went into the modern era. That's where I think a lot of it does happen. But we were on Bag Fuel yesterday.

I believe they put an episode out this week. Shout out to Esso and Heineken and Space Ghost. I could see you a little salty on your face when Heineken asked

who's a better rapper Faber Banks. That wasn't salty. I just don't, I don't think that that's... You looked offended. No, no. I just don't think

that that's a good matchup. Well, I like... I like that. Kind of care, I said, are we talking about just rapping? Because if Fab and Banks were to do a versus, not to say that Banks could not hold his own, but if we're doing solo versus Banks versus Banks versus Fab, it's going to be a long night for Banks. Yeah.

But if it's just rapping, I have Banks over Fab. Banks can, Banks can rap. I don't, I just don't, I don't feel like he's a better rapper than Fab, though. I don't. But he can rap. You know, we know that Banks can rap. But it's not, I don't think that he rap. better than fap, though.

And I, you know, it's the thing with banks that I always notice, like, Queens, who y'all hold banks down. Yeah. Like, you can't say nothing close to being negative about banks to somebody from Queens. What would there be negative to say? No, no, I'm not saying it is.

I'm just saying you can't be like, no, you can't even be like, no, but I don't think he's better than, you'll be like, well, what you mean? Like, did you not hit it? And then y'all get, when y'all start calling him PLK, when y'all get it to that, it's like,

man. Y'all can get into that. Yo, PLK, nah, y'all don't want to see PLK. It's like, no, we do want to see it. We fuck with PLK, but... I call them Hefner sometimes. Yeah, listen, and I love the fact that people having these conversations about New York rap.

I love that. I love that. I love to see that. But in my, in my humbled opinion, because I can't rhyme shit, but in my humble opinion, Fab is a better rap than banks. but I mean it's just because Banks

during that like 2000s mixtape era that that took over New York like I mean yeah of course 50 was 50 but after 50 cents a future no more than no fear 50's focusing on making hit records with Dr. Drake Banks was like our representation

of that like when Fab would go do his mixtape shit cool we got Banks over here like he was our mixtape guy that's why That's why we revered himself. Is Banks top five out of Queens ever? Are you asked my personal? Or what?

I know you personally. So yes. I'm asking you a personal question. No, because if we're doing like the top five, like when you add in all the tiers of what would make the top five list, that's a separate question than my personal. Yes. He's 1,000 percent. Like, I, Cool G rap is the reason for the Mafia. So New York rap I love.

He should be top five Queens rapper of all time. but I, at 35 years old, listened to way more Lloyd Banks than I did cool G-R-R-Oh, yeah, I understand. So, like, to me, yes, but you know rap, you know music. Banks is top three in Queens to me, personally. Like, personally, shit.

Of what I listened to, mostly growing up, yeah, Banks would be right there. Okay. So if you got him top three in Queens, he's, you got him above 50? You got him above 50? Personally? Yeah.

There, no fucking way. personally. Do you personally have him over it? Like to you and your art? I probably listen to Banks in 50 the same. Okay, I got that. Is Banks a better rap than 50? Yes.

Okay. At rapping. Yeah. No, he's not a, we know he's not a better artist for 50. We know that. Yeah. At rapping, yes. But that's not, as much as I am the white, nerdy rap fan, I do like songs.

Like if I were to pick an album, I would pick a 50 cent album over Lloyd Banks one in a heartbeat just because 50's a great artist. And Banks is in his own right, but is a better rapper than he is an artist. Yeah, Banks would be top five. But I mean, if I'm going with my non-personal one, like, yeah, Nas L-L. Like once you get into that, that realm is like, all right, man, what are we doing right now? That's what I'm saying. You say you got Banks three top. prodigy like you just said you just said that i want you to understand what you just said well you said

you said you got banks top three out of queens ever of my personal favorite yes i heard that part it can only be your personal favorite because nobody else is going to say what you just said which is i disagree banks top three out of queen i think people my age for sure no bro people my age people my age no because people your age a lot more people going to have nicky in the top three out of Queens. If I'm doing my regular list, yeah, Nikki would be top three, top five for sure. I put Nikki in top five of the modern rap period. This is what I'm saying. Not just a burrow. All right. So this is what I'm saying. But then if you're getting into the rapping weas, like I got Farrow Monch pretty high in my Queens rappers. Okay. But I'm just saying that's a

Where do you put tip? Like there's a pause. There's a lot of Queens rappers there. But if I'm going off the 20 years, 20 plus years of me listening to hip hop, banks probably, if I were to do my Spotify wrap up of my whole life, yeah, banks would pee up there. Okay.

I'm not mad at that. I'm just saying, I'm just trying to get more to your brain, your musical brain of Queens, MC. Did I, Midnight Marauders, is it one of the greatest ever? Did I listen to it constantly? Sure. But in my fucking 93 Chevy Malibu from 04 to 2010, it's bank.

It was more money in the bank part three playing every day. Not electric relaxation. We was just banging banks mixtape shit. I get it. I just like the fact that people are having these conversations, man. It's good to have. Queens is a tough one to put together, though. Obviously, Brooklyn would probably be the toughest.

But putting a Queens top five together, you have to leave out legends. Oh, without a doubt. Because out the gate between Nas, L.L. Nikki, Q-Tip, Prodigy, Cool G. run DMC, I mean, where do we start there? 50, it gets very fucking tough to put a top five again. You're going to disrespect the legends somewhere throughout this. Dare I say Jaru?

Oh, dare, of course he's up there. Rule my personal five. Of who I listen to, like mainly, let's say high school. Nas, Banks, 50 rule. And then probably I would put tribe at five. Of who I listened to the most at that time. Okay. Yeah.

All right. Is Fab, is Fab Top 5 out of Brooklyn? Bingham. I don't know, man. While I think, okay, do you have them in Top 5? I know people are literally yelling at their

AirPods, car speakers of how mad they are for us to even consider this. But I'm not mad at the conversation. I got Fab Top 5 out of Brooklyn probably, yeah. Jay Big Um Yeah, Fab, Kane, Kim

Foxy Okay Yeah, Fab is probably my top five out of Brooklyn You want to have most in there? Yeah But not in my top five Okay

Personally It is Well, you're, you know, 10 years of my senior So I can see you having Kane there Do I respect Big Daddy Kane And think he's amazing and all that Hey,

Hold on my personal five Because I'm young We're not, we ain't say Raqim? Rock him is from Long Island. Oh shit, yeah. I forgot. I always feel like Rock Kim was from Queens.

No. No. But shit, that Long Island when we were song with De La, that's a crazy list if you get down to it. Yeah. Between them, fucking Rakim,

half of L.O. Cool J. Doom. Biz. Like, it gets kind of crazy in Long Island as well. I think, so I think, but see,

that's the thing. I think definitively, definitively more people will say, Fab is top five out of Brooklyn and they would say Banks is top five out of coins. Yeah, I don't debate that at all. So that's what I'm saying. It's like definitively, I don't think people argue it. I think

top five out of Brooklyn, Fab is there for sure for 95% of people. Okay, where do you put where do you put jizz of them? Because you're just leaving out most jizzar is kind of nuts to me. No, I'm just saying in my personal top five. I mean, obviously to, you know, legends, they'll be on that list. But for me personally, no.

Speaking of the underrated rappers, you know, we didn't put like a full list together or anything, but I felt like not bringing up AZ and the most underrated rappers of all time was kind of nuts. But the output, AZ don't have enough music. What? I think maybe you just weren't paying attention. Me? Of course I was paying attention.

I mean, Doa Dye is obviously a classic, but then, you know, the non-lives joint, Asiatic. He put out a lot when I was in high school. Like, he just wasn't on a major label. Let me pull up AZ's decide. Because AZ has some of my favorite albums when I was in high school. Yeah, but I'm talking about like what Fab has been able to do

and how relevant he's been able to stay and things like that over 26, 27 years. That's not, you know what I'm saying? Like AZ, of course he's a, to me, he's a legend for sure. But when you say most underrated ever, I think, I think Fab is that. that run of Doer Die, Pieces of a Man, which is incredible, non-lives, Asiatic, A-Wol in the format. 95 to 06, A-Z was very, very consistent and very, very underrated, in my opinion. Because I was even writing them down once I was seeing the comments of the underrated shit.

I have A-Z pretty high. I have inspected deck, sub-high, but just the output wasn't there. And, you know, losing his first album in the flood during that Wutang shit, I think things obviously would have been different. This is my sleeper underrated rapper, Camillionaire. okay I figured I would get a laugh from you but you got like

did you listen to a commillionaire in the mid 2000? Like he could really rap and his albums were fucking great yeah I just think he kind of came off as like a character chart to some degree

it was a little too animated yeah but I mean it was the era of people coming off what Luda did with being animated it kind of was like a thing in hip hop yeah it just he could really fucking

like rap right no no for sure and would never get that Isn't he like some crypto billionaire now or some shit? Yeah, I see why he's done. He's doing his rap. He doesn't care about rap. He don't care who's list.

He's on it. He doesn't give a fuck. Yeah, I was just jotting names down on the way here. We talked about Sheik. I still think Sheik gets overlooked. Like the We of the Street. I think Sheik had the best verses. For sure.

Cool G rap we just brought up before. I got Core Mega there. Again, just a bunch of Queens rappers. The whole Queens down. Draco, which we talked about, I feel like a lot of the L.A. sound now It's just kind of his flow and his approach to music. Redman, ESG I have there.

I didn't realize how good Boosie was until I got older. Like, when I was younger, Boocy had like two-haired records. Of course, we knew who Boosie was, how I learned how to spell. Which I guess is saying something. Fab, too. Yeah. That's not how you spell. Did you know that?

Yeah. Okay. Nobody told me. There was no red screen. No, I saw it. Like, you don't spell. Like, he's spelling it wrong. It was like, he's doing that on purpose.

But there was never a time when I had to like spell fabulous in that era. So I never really got correct. You don't even say fabulous. When do you say that? When do you say the word fabulous? Like that was, like if we go out to end and he'd be like, oh my God, steak was fabulous. That is the last time we ever go on to dinner. I'm actually kind of, that's how good fab must have been at rapping in the late 90s that no one from your era gave him shit for calling himself fabulous.

Well, it was fabulous sport. That's what you guys always say. Like that changes anything. I mean, no, I mean, you know, that was his name. name. I mean, I know it came from, um, allegedly some, some non, uh, quote unquote gay shit. Like I know it wasn't fabulous. It was like, you know, some polo shit. Yeah. But still, I'm, I'm shocked that no one was like fabulous. That's what you landed on. See, why? But not sports at the end. You're trying. You're making it. Now you're making it weird. You like to do that. You like to make things weird.

I get what you're saying. At that time, Fabulous was probably the most, like, stereotypical gay joke from straight people. Fabulous. And they would do this. Like, I'm sure that was the S&L skit at that time. Like, that happened for sure. I could probably find that. And then Fab came out kind of on his may shit, like the pretty boy.

Like, I'm shocked that people weren't giving him more. Like, that's how good of a rapper you are. That we was like, all, fine, you could be. We overlooked it. You could be fabulous. Like, what's his name again? Okay. All right.

Yeah. He's nice. Like, he can wrap. And then I'd say the same, but no one was saying anything to stack bundles when he said, I'm the gorgeous gangster. We was like, yeah, you are. We agreed. We collectively agree.

He's like, no, listen, I get it. Someone telling me he's not. Someone go tell him he's not gorgeous. Someone dispute that. Somebody, somebody expressed their discrepancies about that. Tell him a bono, yo. Yeah. Yo, your man, not gorgeous.

The rest of piece of stacks, man. Rest of peace, stack bundles for sure. But, uh, but yeah. The most underrated rapper ever is ludicrous and his discography is better than Fab and Jada kiss respectfully. We're reading off some, some IG comments. I do agree that that Luda is one of the most underrated rappers ever. Yes, for sure. For sure.

But because Ludo is not a mixtape rapper. Even Luda, I feel like they talk about more than they talk about FAB and they give him more like praise than they give FAB. I kind of feel like Luda is. The Fab of Atlanta. And this is, you have every right to kill me on this because I'm not from Atlanta. This is me outside looking in. When I talk to my Atlanta friends and we have these debates, they don't bring Luda name up the way I feel like they should. Okay.

The same way we're talking about FAB, like, yeah, we all know, if you think about it, this guy is a legend. I just don't hear Luda's name being brought up right away in even, you don't have to put him in the top five. But the fact that you're not even bringing his name up to debate it. it has always been crazy to me. I think Luda and FAB have a very similar trajectory in that point with their cities. Like, before T.I. and GZie came along, though, this was the guy.

Like, this was who kind of ushered in the eventual takeover from the South. And I know Atlantic a debate about somebody I wasn't around, but I'm saying from the outside looking in where all of us were like, well, shit, Atlanta's better than us now. Yeah. Like, they got it.

It was Luda kind of ushering that. that part. And I'm not saying that he has a better catalog than Jada and Fab, but if you get in to his first few albums. Ludacris discography is it might be underrated. I'm willing to agree with that. Back for the first time, word of mouth, chicken and beer. When we had that debate of like the three album run, I apologize for not putting ludicrous in that conversation. Back for the first time, word of mouth chicken and beer from 2000 to 2003 is the craziest three year run of that time, I feel like. That was nuts.

And on the visual side, yeah, I'm not mad at that comment. No, I do feel like he's underrated. But I feel like Luda gets, he does get his praise, though. I feel like people do, I feel like he's underrated as far as, like, people not really understanding how dope of an MC is, like, lyrically. I think people look at the, you know, the animation and the visuals and things like that. you know, it's more like too much, maybe of a character for a lot of people. Yeah.

Rap, it kind of leans into the character thing. Well, he was funny. He was a radio personality. It was funny. But Luda could still rap when it was time. So that's what I say. I think he's underrated in that regard. Not of his celebrity, star power and how people revere him and talk about him.

I don't think he's underrated there. I think he's underrated when you start talking about his skill set and how well he can really rap. He actually has more in common with Fab now that I think about it even more. Because Fab has a lot of those lines. that are more silly and fun. Her feet are killing her, call his shoe aside. All right, cool.

It's for the song, Fab could really rap. Luda, him, are very similar in that regard, too. You're going to get a lot of... It's the delivery, though. Yeah. I'm just saying that... Some people would call it, like, remedial bars, and it's like,

no, that's for the fun of the song. But when it's time to rap, both of them can really, really rap. But Luda, like, you're going to get the hip-hop quotable song, which to me is captions. It's like caption rap the same way Fab was doing it. Yeah. Yeah.

Luda and Fab are actually extremely similar just from different places in the country. But yeah, the Boosie shit, it wasn't until Boosie started doing content and the internet had to tell me that Boosie was like a rapper. I wasn't really paying attention. Yes, Boosey is,

that's why we gave him a pass for wearing the jacket courtside. The Cabot jacket? Which was crazy. Because I don't even think Boosie knows like how much he does mean to Arford internally in our strolls and everything. I think he just like, didn't he say like

he barred it from his brother and just was like, oh, this shit cool. It's red. Shout out to Scott Vanier. You know, he's curated some music for some of our favorite shows, How to Make It in America. He did entourage too, right? Entourage, yeah. He was in the comments.

He said, if we're talking underrated, I would argue Beanie Siegel was the most underrated. He has two of my most listened to albums. Scott, I mean, your musical ear, your taste is impeccable. but Beans is probably considered to most the best rapper out of his city his city fab is not considered the best rapper out of New York on nobody's place and there's no disrespect just Philly in New York as far as time period of who's putting out

hip-hop and sheer population it's an unfair comparison like it'd be easier to be the best I get I'm not on a skill level because we put Philly number one on our rapper cities but just the sheer population of each city is different. But to be considered the best from your city means you're not underage. I don't care if you're in Scottsdale, Arizona. Exactly. If you're not the number one of your city,

I'm not the number one of anything. That's what I'm saying. I'm not here to hate. If people have you as number one from your city, you're not under. I don't even think I'm number one in tomorrow's life. Yeah. So no, and we've talked about our personal top tens.

I have beans in my personal top ten favorite of all time. Yeah. But I do see what he is saying. I think it was just because Bean's run wasn't short. Just when he was at his height, the run of Rockefeller was so short. When he was at the height, when he was the next guy. Yeah. It just got cut too quick.

And then he went to jail as well. Like, there was a lot of factors. So I could see what Scott said. There was some things that messed with his trajectory as far as being a superstar. And if this changed anything, Scott did put Lloyd Banks, my house, in entourage, which was a mixtape record. I don't remember any fat mixtape record. No, Scott. I don't remember Vincent Chase banging.

FAB mistake. Yeah. Like if you ever watch... I remember Turtle throwing on that more money in the bank part too, though. Yeah. You watched any of those series on HBO around that time and the music that was curated.

Broke Mogle on Instagram, Scott Vanier. He was responsible for all of that. Impeccable, what I call curation and playlist of some of our favorite shows. Yeah. Wow,

we're talking about Philly. I had young Chris on my list. Underrated. Oh, yeah. He's underrated. If we're talking about... I don't say beans is not underrated to me. Yeah.

Chris, young Chris is underrated. it. Even Petey, I think most of state property, if things had panned out different, would get the flowers that they deserve because everybody in state property could rap rap. I have Obie Trice on my list. Okay. I even still, like, every now and then we'll throw on Obie's second album, second round on me. Like, Obie made good projects.

Even after, like, his allure and the M&M shit kind of faded, he was still putting out joints. Like, I even think the setup is on that. He had hit records, and he could rap really well. Yeah. man who's our guy that was also signed as shady at that time uh stat quo stat quo is underrated out of Atlanta and there was one of the most underrated rappers out of Atlanta stat quo without a doubt is one of the most underrated rappers out of Atlanta and I promise you Paul this is not a dis at all I will say shady records has had some of the best

rappers that just ended up I don't know what happened with how you guys were promoting Remember Cassius that was signed the same time as StackQuow? He was nice. Cassius, is he from Cleveland? Chicago. Chicago, okay. Yeah, but he was on, that whole Eminem presents the re-up shit, that Stap Quo was like the star on.

O.B., like it was the shady, you know, their version with mixtape as a major album. Yeah. He was nice. Like, they had a lot of guys in that era that were fire. I just don't know what happened. But, I mean, Paul's going to take it as it is.

They're sensitive over there. Another Queen's rapper, I have Nature. Okay. Nature, I even think on the band from TV might have the best verse. What was the album? It's a red cover. I can't remember the name of it.

I used to play that Nature album all the time. Four seasons or some shit like that. It was a red cover. Nature I have very high on that. No. Maul, I saw your vision board for 2026. And what I saw right there was you upgrading to the all-new I don't.

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I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Cliverts Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clivert Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or we're you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said

that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at It podcast. I'm Sam Jett.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode, with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars, and now I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international. National Football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup.

For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents

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They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The take I wanted to have last episode when we were talking about underrated rap, rappers. I didn't say because, oh shit. It's just going to make all our listeners roll their eyes. When it comes to rapping, I think Jay-Z is an underrated rapper.

He gets his just-do of course people I don't even like them, put him number one because what he's accomplished. Everything he's, he can rap just as good as every last one of y'all favorite rappers. But see, when you say under- He's an underrated lyricist. I don't think he gets his flowers for how good of a rapper he is. Not songmaker, not great albums, not achievements, not longevity, just flat out rapping. I don't think people throw his name in the mix.

Because we always like the same way we're saying with Fab Mix, we talk about just rapping, nobody throws hove when we're talking the just, you know, we just talk about rapping. Because then we get into the black thoughts, Faramanch. And I'm not here to debate if he's better than them or not. But I don't think Jay gets put in those conversations the way he can rap just as good as everyone else. Yeah, but I can say... On some lyrical, miracle, whatever you want to say Jay can do that. But I can't say Jay'sy is underrated only because if we look at any, you know, platform, whatever,

and look at their list of the greatest ever, he's on everybody's list. No, I'm talking about when we're having the lyricist rapper rapper conversation. I'm talking about his skill set. Like they don't give that part of his skill set enough. Everything else, Jay gets his flowers for everything. I'm saying that part. Yeah, I can't. Like when we talk about lyricists, people be like, oh, well, I put a hole there,

but if we're talking just lyricist, I got black thought right here. Like, Jay doesn't even ever get in that conversation when we're talking about that. Yeah, but I can't say Jay's underrated because he gets his just due from everybody. Artists, publications. But I'm saying just the lyrical. I get what you saying. That part of his skill set doesn't get respected. Where Nas gets, Nause is put in both those conversations.

Nause will get his flowers on the side that Jay gets his flowers on on all the list publications. But then when we're talking about the nerdy lyrical side, Nause will still be in that conversation, but Jay won't. I just, I don't understand why. Like, Jay is just as good as everybody at rapping. Who's the one rapper that you see a lot of people speak about and give praise to that you just like, yeah, I might be putting too much on that. That's a good question.

Fuck it, man. Fuck it. Let's have a conversation. These mics aren't here. These cameras aren't here. It's just you with me. Okay, we're saying the era that we're talking about right now are you saying, like, currently?

Because a lot of these guys stink that y'all take on it. Oh, I don't listen to a lot of these guys. Because if we're talking modern era, like most of y'all are. stink. No, I'm talking about just, you know, from, again, my, my, my, my taste level, you know, my growing up in the culture and consuming the culture. The era you grew up in that, which we've been talking about this whole episode for the the most overrated rapper to me, and, you know, he's a legend, but I felt victim to this at one point two. And then I had to really sit down and really think about it like, yeah,

he's dope, but he might be overrated, Andre 3000. Only because he never put out a solo rap project and he gets goat status which he fucking deserved no no his listen we know the influence

it wasn't until Twitter that I found out that the world thought three stacks Lauren Hill and Tupac were all overrated and not legends

yeah but it wasn't until Twitter did I find that out but this the thing is 3000 never had a solo rap album and I think I think to be considered top five rappers

of all time and not have a solo rap album might be like, damn, bro. Like, how many other people can, you know what I mean? Like, I get the influence. Like, one of my favorite groups. I'm always, you know, whenever we even get a hint that we're getting a 3000 verse,

I'm probably one of the first people to be, like, run and listen to it. So I know his skill set, Aung-3-000 is an incredible rapper. But I just think when you're talking about just overrated, when you have to have a solo rap album. Why? To be considered top five of one of the goats? because it's like, it's just that,

I think that's one of the qualifications. Can you be considered a goat at your sport and didn't win the title? But in every other genre of music, the people that we say are goats, 99% of them were like in groups. What do you mean? Outside of like Stevie, Michael and Prince.

Like, people are in bands, people are in groups and are still revered as the greatest at their craft. Like what, just because he's in a group. But they put out solo projects. Not everybody. Who did you just name that didn't put out of solo? No, I'm saying,

Aside from Stevie, Mike and Prince, most of music is within groups and bands. Like, that's a thing. I mean, yes, just groups and bands. But I'm talking about in rap. Somebody says you're one of the greatest. Other genres. I'm saying rap is the only place that I feel like we do this has to be a solo artist. Maybe pop music in that regard.

Which one of the top aren't singles of all time was in a group that we, like anybody's top five R&B vocalists of all time is probably a, they weren't in a group. Maybe at one point, but they put out a solo project. That's what I'm saying. You have to put out a solo project. We have to just see what you sound like, what you look like, what you do on your own. And we got that with New Blue Sun. You know, that wasn't rap.

You know, good vibe, good energy. I'm there. I'm with that. You know, that's my type of shit too. But when you say, because again, I felt victim at one point of having 2000 in my top five rappers of all time. And I had to think about it. I'm like, that's not fair to somebody whose entire career is a solo. career and they've put out amazing albums, amazing bars, amazing, you know, and they don't get

that slot where as 3000 gets it, but he never, we never got a solo rap project from him. But he's even from the era where there was, you know, it was three verse era. So it's not like every song is just three stacks with a 16 move on, big boy, and the song. Like he has a, he has an output of verses that could still rival somebody that is a solo artist with the amount of outcast projects that that were put out. Plus the verses he, legendary verses he's put out at the latter half of his career. If you put all verses side by side with solo artists that we deem the best, how are three, how is three stacks not there?

Listen, he's there because he's in the conversation of greatest of all time. So that right there is, and again, it pains me to even have a overrated rapper conversation and put 3,000 name in it because he is one of my favorite rappers of all time. but you got to have at least one solo rap album, bro. I think we're the offensive part where fans like me, it's the word overrated. If you were like, yo, there should be, there should be an asterisk maybe next to his name because he was in a group type of thing. Like I'm saying like a Roger Maris astrict on something because the playing field is a little different right now. But Roger Maris wasn't overrated because he had five extra games than Babe Ruth.

to get 61 home runs. Like, it's just a different playing. You're not overrated. You're just in a different category, maybe, because you guys are playing different sports when it comes to putting an album out. Yeah, but with this thing called rap, or you got to, we got to know what you do by yourself,

just you. Is Barry Sanders overrated because he had a shorter career? I mean, yeah, well, things like that. Kevin Durant probably needs to be on a team where he's not. surrounded by Steph and Clay and like we need to

go get one with Houston right now to be considered goat or to be considered like I can say that about so many basketball players from that

era of course you can but what I'm saying is that that doesn't mean that Kevin Durant is not a great player that doesn't mean that Andre 2000 is not a great rap and a great emcee

I'm just saying that me personally I can't have them in my top five and I used to but I can't because but you got to have

at least one solo rap project to be considered top five or and being overrated means that you're rated it means that people they look at you that semantics that's semantics that's no but it is though

that's semantics it is though it's meaning it's meaning like yo so many people fuck with you and like you it's like all right but hold on man we gotta start looking at i do he have a solo rap so we got to kind of take it's just the attribute it's like you got to move to slot it down like i you don't got a solo rap joint so he can't be you know what I'm saying that's all it is not saying he ain't he's better

He's still better than 98% of y'all. Okay, let's go with the circumstances argument. Because I've had this debate with the three-sacs thing. Unfortunately, Biggie's career was cut short. But I don't think anyone in this room would ever debate or give pushback that Biggie is not one of the greatest rappers that's ever existed on earth. And the amount of output he put out in the years that he was here, a double disc classic, a solo project classic.

The amount of rapping, if you go off, minutes, I'm sure three stacks surpasses Biggie in the amount of elite rapping minutes. So why should it matter when he has put out just more than Biggie? And we revere Biggie no matter what. And Biggie only put out three discs. Solo albums. Okay, but it still has the amount of versus to prove. It's the amount of verses that prove that you're elite. Just because he happened to be rapping with somebody else on those, let's look at the totality of the proof that we have. We have this many Biggie versus this many three stacks versus can they not be comparable? I don't think so. I think you got to have. No, he just was able to have a longer career with the

exact same amount of points. It's down to the Barry Sanders thing. Like you had a short career, but it was probably one of the most impactful we've ever seen. If you say Barry Sanders is not one of the greatest running backs of all time, you're out of your fucking mind. Same with Biggie in that regard. But if you look at the time of someone reaching the numbers that Barry Sanders got, just in a longer format, why should that take away from them? Because it can go to- Just because Barry Sanders did it in a quicker amount of time. Because it can go to opposite way as well.

Because then also, I don't even like that version because there's a lot of elite rap like Wayne, I think, in modern era is up there with one of the greatest rappers of the modern era. I wish Wayne pulled back a bit with his solo output. I wish sometimes he got his three-stack shit and just gave us 12 verses in one year and kept it fucking movement. Well, here I don't even want to get down that path.

We've had this debate. You know, I don't know if you want to have it. again, but we've had that conversation. Even though I don't agree with the Lauren debate, I understand that one more than the three stacks one because we have this, this body of work from Outcast, which has so many Andre 3000 verses. It's not like Outcast put out AT aliens and we said Three Stacks was the best and then we got the flute album. Like, then I'd understand it. There's a huge output even though it's not solo of Three Stacks versus. No, I, Yes, I understand that.

And he's still one of the goats. But you can't be top five all time on my list and not have a solo rap album. I'm sorry. That's just not, it's not fair. It's like, bro, we got to get him by itself. We got to see what he, and I get it, the verses, what everything, you know, Outcast has done. The greatest rap group of all time, in my opinion. I mean, yes, we give them all of that.

I give all them that praise. It wasn't a solo album. It wasn't a solo effort. Yes, he has verses on verses and things like that. We're rapping his ass off. I just think that it's overrating him to put him top five. Not just $100,000, anybody, if they don't have a solo album, a solo rap album. I'm sorry.

Okay. What if he put out one solo project that was not to the level of what Aquamini, A.T.L.A. AT Alien, Southern Playlistic, Cadillac, Funkie Music, Stanconia. But he put one out. Now do you put him there? Like today? Because I think... What does it sound like?

I think... It has to be... Just because you put it out... No, it has to be... It has to be good. Okay. What's the best example? All right.

I think P. Prodigy is one of my favorite New York rappers. H&C solo project. I fucking love. Prydh. Went crazy on that. Al went crazy on that. That's such a good solo project. But would I say it compares to the infamous

no. So is that, I still think Prodigy is one of the best in New York period but that's not because he put out HNIC. It's because everything he did with MobbD. It's his verses on the Mobb Deep album.

Yeah, but you also don't have him as a goat. I have him as one of the goats in New York City. I'm talking about rap. In New York, yeah. He's up there for me. Not New York. In rap. Oh, I know.

I'm just using an example of somebody that was in a... For sure. A goat. No matter where you from. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. You got to have a... solo album.

So that's just a checklist. It doesn't matter what the solo project is or if it compares to what you did with six albums. I'm just saying at least, at least we have to have a solo. So we're not saying it has to be a classic and it has to, I'm not putting all of that on it. I'm saying at the very least, we need to have a solo album from you at the very least. I guess that's all. But still a legend, still a legend, Hall of Famer, all of those things. I'm not pleased. I don't want this to be taken as I'm, you know, discredited and Andre 3000 in any shape, form of fashion.

But I'm just saying me personally, I used to have him in my top five, and I had to kind of restructure that and look like, but he don't have a solo rap. I mean, if we're going with three sacks being overrated, I think Big Boy is one of the most underrated rappers of all time. I think Big Boy is an elite rapper that just having to be next to a unicorn. I'm on that side too.

Like Big Boy can rap better than... I'm on that. Better than people give him credit for. And some may say a lot of those songs, he had the better verses. Oh, there's plenty of outcast records where Big Boy got three sets of that. So, yes, I agree.

Sir Lucius Leftfoot is a great solo project. Big Boy got great solo shit. This is what I'm saying. And speaker box. I mean, I know it's an outcast, but they were two separate. Speaker Box is an incredible rap album. Absolutely.

And obviously Love Below is one of the greatest, I wouldn't call it a rap album, though. I don't know what is it? It's music. It's just beautiful music. Just to create. What the fuck is this? He just let us in in his mind.

He just let us into his mind. Here's where I differ. I think a day in the life of Andre Benjamin, which is the last record on Love Below, I think that song is better than most y'all solo for rap albums. I think three stacks rapping for three minutes straight is better than a lot of y'all solo albums that are 50 minutes long. Yeah.

So that's where I'm still like, after he did something say Atlanta, he fucking destroyed every rapper at the end of the album. And a joint, what was the joint album? What was the joint album, Rort? 16 ain't enough. you know i was at deaf jane when that happened and that that song was called something different and then they came in and said we're changing the title the whole concept of the song the hook everything 16-9 and yeah once you once you got that got the three said and everything everything was like this song is now about being too long that's why it's like he give us those moments i just need a

solo album of those like those type of moments and those things like god damn like to at least have that you know again still one of my favorite emcees ever one of the most influential artists of our culture not taking nothing away from Andreth 2000 in any shape form of fashion but me personally i did have him in my top five and i had to change that because it's just not if you don't have a solo rap album it's like come on i i give and this isn't a three three stacks thing but just in general i give more stats to the artists like hobo gnaz drake people that have a very high output at the legend status that they are, I think that is a stat. I think that speaks to how talented you are

that you could put out this much music and still retain your status. But with that said, I don't take away from artists that do the opposite. Because I don't want you to have a high output if it's not going to be at the degree of what you're doing with the cycle that you have. It's a stat that they can do that.

But I don't think it takes away from your artistry if you're on a, you know what, every two or three years, I think I want to do this. I don't want to have the craziest and highest output. I'm smart. And we're not going to make it an M&M thing, but even a Wayne thing. Like, when you have a crazy output, sometimes it can lead to what we thought was a classic discography.

We're leaning into more bad albums than we are good ones. So, yes, while I give the rappers that can do that, more credit, I don't take away from artists that are smart enough to know. I'm not going to fuck on my discography. Yeah, yeah, let me chill. I'm cool. Yeah, let me take my time. Let me take a year off.

I'm all right. Let me take a year off and just chill a little bit. Like, do I want a Frank Ocean album? Of course I do. But if Frank is sitting there every year and has 15 records and goes, nah, this ain't blonde. I'm going to take his word for it. I respect that. And I appreciate that.

Yeah. Yeah. Don't get me some shit where now I'm looking like, yeah, with Channel Orange, blonde, and nostalgia, we got you as one of the modern guys. Don't start giving me reasons to not say it. Yeah, don't start giving me just these filler albums where it's like, was it a contract negotiation? Like, what's going?

You was just trying to get out of a deal. Like, because you know, we start having a guy like, nah, he was trying to get out of his deal on that one. We love doing that going to one album that was kind of like, nah, but he was going through something with the label. They made him put that out. I liked the last Kailani project, but I see why Folded came after that album.

Yeah, yeah. You came back real quick with a monster. while you were trying to get off it. That's weird that you held that record. That's a real thing. That's what I'm saying. We don't want too many of those, though, from our favorite artists. Yeah, man.

But shit, yeah. I never liked the Tupac overrated one, but that's a big Twitter thing. I don't see it, man. Go through Tupac's discography. Yeah. Tell me the blemish in that discography. I think to what we were just saying, I think a lot of it is some of that. It was like it was so many songs after his,

you know, unfortunate demise. Like, I think that it was kind of like, people felt that way, but it was like, we get it, but it's like, you know, I feel like I feel like Pac maybe may have went back in and changed some of these verses and- Park also had, he had the Wayne output. We just didn't know. Yeah.

Like, you hear every producer's like, yo, Pac would knock out five songs a day. Yeah. Like, but we don't know if Pac wanted to hear the five songs that happened. Yeah. Like, that was just like, it could have been references. It could have been something that he was just like, let me just start this idea.

idea, you know, because you know how it is with creating music, where you start an idea. It doesn't mean I'm supposed to hear this. Yeah, like, you just live with it for a while and then you go back and, you know, you make the necessary changes to it. Yeah, because like, but I don't hold like until the end of time, the song itself, until the end of time, is incredible. I think we would have gotten that song from Pock had he stayed a lot. The rest of that album, I don't know if Pock would a co-sign. Yeah. Like, I don't hold Born Again against Biggie.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't put that in his cat. Yeah, yeah. I just don't know if big would have been 100% behind that. And don't ask me, are you still down when you're not asking me that? Yeah. And also, who came up with Loyal to the Game as a title of Seven Years After It Death?

Yeah. Like, I just, it's like those, those. Loyal to resting and P. Can we find a different title? Yeah, man. It's over, man. Just let the man rest. Would you, um, would you be part of a one of those albums?

Not in the way like, um. Alan Havik doing the Mobb Deep thing where it's like, this is the crew or like what De La did. Would you ever want to participate in someone that passed album? It depends on how close of a relationship I have with the artist, how, you know, the type of conversations we had. If I know, you know, that the artist would have wanted that music to eventually be released, hopefully release it in a way that they would want it done, things like that. Yeah, I mean, artists created and, you know, most times the artists want to.

the art that they create to be released into the world. But again, it would depend on my relationship and how close of proximity I was to the artist whose music or whatever art it is, who it belonged to. Like, if you just hire me to work at a label, I'm like, yo, we got these whoever, whoever songs. I'm just like, I don't know. Like, I never had a relationship with this person. I don't know if I want to touch this.

Like, you know what I mean? It's just like, it's just a very, you know, kind of like awkward space to be in. But if you have that art, that relationship with that artist, yeah, I would, I would, would be on the side like I know they wanted to do this. They wanted to get this out. This was the vision they had for it. This is how they wanted it to sound, feel, look. Like, then yeah, I would definitely be on the side of putting that out and working on a project like that. Yeah. Because there was, um, shit, I never even asked Sean Money. Like, he worked on, I think, the first posthumous pop album. He did like three records. I'm curious how he felt because he never

met Pac. Yeah. It has to be awkward. Yeah. Like, you don't know this person. Of course, I'll give you this beep. Like, how, like this beat? Yeah, like, dude, this person ever even, like me and like my work. Like I don't, it's just so many different like, you know, emotions that surround that type of decision that I would have to have that personal relationship with artists. Yeah, not for sure. But yeah, we won't get you down.

Your Wayne rabbit hole of over it. I love Wayne, man. But, you know, it's just, like you said, just the output sometimes is like, we didn't need that version and we didn't need that, you know, song or that mixtape. Like, we just didn't need that. You know who has a. the craziest output that he doesn't get flack for and I'm not here in any way to give this legend

flack but snoop does not give have the same rules that we put on m and wayne and certain rappers when you when you go on Wikipedia just look at the discography we're harsher on wayne and m and black man he was he was with martha stewart for that album yeah yeah yeah like Martha had something going. I don't know. Snoop of legend, most famous rapper all time. Listen, man.

I'm not here to ever take down a legend in that way. I'm just saying we move the goalposts for certain rappers with certain output. I agree. I agree. That's just like, Snoop is on that list. He's on that list of like, yo.

I don't even think people realize Snoop's output. Snoop may have 45 albums. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah, like when it was Snoop lying, like once he got the Snoop Lion,

I was just like, yeah, I think I'm gonna just, I'm gonna just chill on. I mean, I didn't really go down to Snoop Lion campaign. I didn't really, I wasn't a part of that one. Do we put

Kanye in the ones that like leaked or were on a STEM player? Like we've never talked about those modern rules of like yeah, I mean, Don the 2 does exist. It's in my iTunes. But it's not on streaming. You know what it is? I think

I think with Kanye because we can point to but he just changed as a person and mentally and things like that. Did he? Yeah. I only changed a person, I think, his focus of who he is as a person changed. Yeah. Same erratic.

That means he changed. Yeah. He changed. He's mentally, he changed. He reacted to things that he, in the same way he would have, just, you know, George Bush hates black people. Is the same Kanye as now? 100%.

It's just different words coming out. Does that make sense? Yeah. 100%. But that would be, hold my statement true he hangs you know what i'm saying so that's what i think we can kind of you know liking that to us like yeah Kanye just became a different version of himself so naturally the art and the music changed along with that but i mean i don't i don't think i could look at a Kanye album

be like that was trash that was whack me yay was probably the only one that by Kanye standards by Kanye standards i call trash um vultures one i i did like vultures too i don't even know if that ended up on DSPs or it was just a leak, but... And then there's that... But they're still not... You know, they're still not comparable, like, to a graduation, to Pablo, even latter part of the career

where Yeez is everything. It doesn't compare to that. Yeah. Like, it's still the way we kind of look at M with certain stuff. Like, if you're an M fan, yeah, this is great, and I'm glad he's still putting out music, but this isn't the M&M show. Yeah. His focus is different. So, I hope Yey

protects his legacy music-wise. It's everything else now. is subjective to your political views of protecting his legacy as a person, and that's not my place. Music-wise, I hope he protects it. Listen, Snoop is the most famous rapper probably ever that we will ever see. Great song, but he started it with counting one, two, three, and to the four. We would kill any other rap if they started a verse like that. We would kill any other rapper.

Like, let's just be honest. Any other rapper starts a verse like that, we are killing them. But no, but see, to me that's kind of like when we go back to, I don't know if it's on Bagfield or our episode of like Fab, how people write out lyrics. And it's like, nah, Big Sean's doper than that, you writing out what he said right here. That was the vibe of the song. Snoop came on like the coolest motherfucker you'd ever heard in your life. Just because it wasn't lyrical, that wasn't the point of the song. No, I'm not saying, bro, starting a verse like that is crazy.

Like, can't tell me nothing. like that's basic as fuck but it's so iconic but that's the hook that's the melody to the hook I had a dream I could buy my way to heaven when I woke I spent it on a necklace hard that's a fucking bar harsh shit of all time I don't know where you was trying to go with that that is a fucking barred way that's a starting your verse like that is a fucking bomb that's a fucking bomb like I've never heard a rapist say that Yeah, he went. Never heard a rapper say that or anything close to that.

It's basic but profound. Incredible way to start a fucking verse. And not to like try to make it too deep. The introduction of Snoop Doggy Dog and Dr. Dre is at the door. That's kind of a metaphor of what the fuck was about to happen. Like even it's almost to the to the M&M intro of high kids, do you like violence? Have you ever seen me stick nine inch nails through each one of my eyelids? Like who the fuck is this?

It was the introduction to what would end up being such a legendary career. Like Snoop Doggy Dog and Dr. Dre is at the door? In hindsight, yes. It was it was incredible to set it up that way. Coming to 80s had very basic bars. No, for sure. I don't think anyone would say DMC is the most. I get it.

But that's the start. And it's like one, two, three, until the four. I was like, when you go back and listen to this like, nah we were supposed to give him more flack for that one just starting their first like that incredible song iconic legendary song but just starting it like that when we look back it's like somebody in the studio

supposed to be like yo sure we're keeping that or but he started spaz after oh no wait another shit listen listen because none of y'all gave DMC any fucking flack for uh dees for never dirty MCs for mostly clean that's just as bad as one two three into hell no Hell no

Tees for never dirty MCs for mostly clinging counting at the intro of the verse Like come on bro Come on Like I get it But like come on Like said in hindsight

Incredible the way The career is panned out But it's just like When you just listening to it at first It was like Yeah it was more to the music And the vibe that we kind of was like Into but just like

From rap standards It's kind of like You count it Yeah But I think that kind of like represented that West Coast funk Sound where it was so cool And laid back

where New York was so fucking aggressive and da-da-da-da-da. Like, that was the vibe. Like, he was awesome, just laid back one, two, three, and to the four. Shit. Like, this was almost too easy. It matched what was going on.

Yeah, I get it. I get it. But, I mean, going from one, two, three, four to sexual seduction. I mean, what a range. Listen, man. That's why he's Snoop. Wasn't he a pastor from one album, too?

Of course he was. There's definitely a gospel album somewhere. Listen, Snoop is a vampire. I'm convinced. I'm convinced Snoop is 800. 92 years old. Like, he's a vamp.

Bro, I just watch Snoop analyzed the fucking Clippers and Warriors game on Peacock the other night. I'm like, yo, what fucking movie am I? This is,

bro, it was, like, it almost didn't seem like this was real. Like, bro, this is, he stood trial for murder.

Like this is the same guy that stood trial when Steve Kerr was getting ejected, like the way he was analyzing that. He said, hold on, back up, cut.

Like, I'm like, bro, this is, this is TV. I'm watching. This is Snoop analyzing a real NBA game, bro. Yeah.

Snoop was never really a Pittsburgh Steelers fan. That Jersey meant something else. Yeah, shout out to Snoop, man. Definitely the most famous rapper that we ever had in our culture, for sure. And just as far as entertainers, he probably has top five entertainer career world, though. Bro. Like, maybe top, like.

He's giving. He's selling us. beer, real estate. He loves the kids. Peeway football league. I'm saying he's the biggest Pop Warner League in California. Bro, what did it? Like, he's eight, he's 90,000 years old, bro, I'm telling you. Did you ever watch the doc with his, his Pop Warner shit? Yeah. He's flying him up to Seattle. He's cursing out kids and getting them to the league. I'm like, this is Snoop Dog. Incredible, man. The way he was able to turn around his kid, because again, you know, I remember from the beginning and, you know, looking back to things that Snoop went through and,

you know, his career and his life to where he is today. I mean, you know, the Snoop Dog documentary, a movie, docu-series, whatever it is, it's going to be incredible to sit back and just watch that and really, you know, appreciate the life and the career that he's been able to build for himself. Because without a doubt, Snoop Dog is an incredible icon. Yeah. And I love, like, how long, and we can close this, but how long his career has been that the NBA's not even going to look into his past of like, this guy's had a shady...

Doesn't matter. Like, there's a song that both murder was the case. Yeah. Doesn't matter. All of that is... Like, he was with Lil Half Dead. Like... Yeah.

I mean, I get it, man. But if any other person had that type of career in this era, they could never commentate for the NBA. Never. It would never have. Like, turn your first album, Doggy style to now analyzing NBA games on P... It's just like, bro, that is just... That life is fucking incredible.

Yeah. Absolutely. I'm glad we just did a cool little music pod. Yeah, man. That wasn't really the plan, but yeah. I like that we did that. A little more often throughout the year, man. It's always good to tap in

and kind of pick your brain and see what you're thinking about rap. Yeah, still haven't watched the ASAP Rocky, punk rocky music video, but I'm going to... I'm sure the visual is insane. Yeah. Is he on some punk rock shit?

Is that what you're doing? Okay. All right, we got to see what Rocky doing. All right, as soon as possible. Respectfully to his wife. wife, it was more so, you know, the photo lighting and, you know, I'm a fan of the, the product line. Yeah, yeah.

I get it. So I'm speaking only to that of the two photos that Rihanna posted yesterday. I'm wearing 50 underwear right now. I just, I'm appreciator of fabric. Yeah. Great underwear. Three kids? Yeah.

Listen, man. We out of here. We're told you y'all soon. Be safe. Be blessed. I'm that niggie. He's just ginger. Peace.

I'm Daniel. Alarcon, and this is my friend, is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast, The Away End, with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.