New Rory & MAL - Episode 494 | D-Dot and Tracey Lee Bring The Law and Disorder

Episode Date: May 15, 2026

Mal is in Toronto, and no, we haven't heard ICEMAN yet. Today, Rory sits down with DDot and Tracey Lee, who’s new project “Law & Disorder” is out now. DDot and Tracey share some crazy stories about their time at Howard, working with Biggie, and recognizing Jay-Z’s talent. The guys also discuss aging gracefully in hip hop, who gets to critique music, and debate what “real hip hop” is. We’ll see you next week when the ice has melted, and Mal is back! All lines provided by Hard Rock Bet Visit your nearest Boost Mobile store or https://www.boostmobile.com/promo/25-forever Go to https://baskandlatherco.com and use code RORYANDMAL for 20% offSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Everything here is spontaneous, real, and genuine, just honest conversations about what it means to be alive. I'm Javier Tornandez and listen to Learning to Be Human on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. Welcome back. We lost our dear brother, Mall to Iceman. He is not here with us. Prayers up. Dumeris and I are here. And we have also. two people that I consider absolute fucking legends and just by proxy

through guru we are all family I am here with the legendary D.D.D. and Tracy Lee outside fresh off an album. Big clap.

Where do we want to begin? Because I know both you guys have a lot to fucking say. I can tell you where we can start at. Proxy. Can you talk to the people? Can you, you know, the definition of proxy? I'm playing, I'm playing, I'm playing, I'm playing I know what it is. Yeah, this guy, man.

He don't like, you know, well, I ain't gonna say he don't like, but when we start using vocabulary, you know, he gets a little, you know, what is that? Even though I know what it is. I know, yeah. Yeah, being the smart ass. I don't even know how we even linked up

how long ago it was. I know Guru initially introduced me and Tracy a long time ago, and he was like, do you know this is? I was like, you know what fuck this is? It's like, yes, what's up, man? I can't remember how you and I connected. I can't either. Yeah.

And I smoke, so I don't, yeah, it's not, it's not, it's, it's, it's foggy at the maximum. I don't remember, but it's been years. How, um, how did you two connect? Who? Me and Trey? Yeah. Oh, Howard University. At Howard, okay.

That's where everything started. That's where everything started. What was in the water at that time with you guys, guru, and we, you know, I'm sure Puff will end up somewhere in the story, but we all got to focus on Puff Shulululah. But what was in the water in Howard at that time? The Fountain of Youth. It was a youth movement when I got there.

In 1986, hip-hop was, you know, we had the Wop, Eric B and Rock Kim. You know, it was special. So, and when I got to Howard University, it was a New York, really a New York regional thing. It spread, obviously. It was in other places, but New York was at the time, we were ruling the dance hall.

So if you were from New York, then you had a little bit of extra cachet. You know what I'm saying? As far as that scene went. And so, and me coming, already being a rapper, coming on campus, rapping to a certain degree, having all the tapes that were exclusive, the Kid Capri's, the Brucey Bs,

and all these type of tapes, they were exclusive. to the campus. So hip hop was, it was like seed and you could just see the roots planting the cell firmly in the ground and get ready to grow. So was there three different movements where,

because we've seen photos of like big, red man, Pac, everybody at Howard at, that's naughty by nature out there. Was everyone moving within that what would be bad boy time? because I've talked with Guru about this as well. He was like, you know, we were doing something completely separate, but we would still work with them at the same time.

Was that an actual movement with everyone that early? Do you think? Guru was much younger than me. Not much, but he was 90s. He came in 92. He was like four years after, I was there. I was there 86. So Guru's movement, yeah, so his vision.

Even my movement was different than his. Yeah. I came two years after him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, hip hop had changed that fast from 86 to 88. You know what I'm saying? The artists that were coming in, the style of rapping that was coming in.

So by the time the 90 hit, we was in a whole other, you know, area. So in 86, 87, 88, there was a learning movement. Like, we're listening and we're just all just absorbing this thing. Like, what is this? By the time Trey got there in 88, me, Ron and Hav and. And a little bit of puff at the time, we moving towards what we've been hearing. Harvest rapping, I'm rapping. We're already moving towards it.

Probably like him when he got there in 88. Of course, he's rapping. But we focus on school. Yeah. We're here for school. So when he touches down, lo and behold for him, it's there. And it's in his face. Like, oh.

So if he had the bug, it was right there as soon as he touched down. So as he touched down, it was like, oh, shit, they got mics in there. And that's exactly what happened. Like, I don't mean to cut you off. That's exactly what happened because when I got to Howard, I had been trying to get a deal when I was in high school, you know, much like in 86, you know, that was a bit of a renaissance period.

But then when I got there, I decided, you know what, I'm going to just get my education, go ahead and become a sports broadcaster because that's another one of my passions, just sports in general. But I saw this guy rhyming in front of this place we call Blackburn Center, which is like the central location everybody goes for, you know what I mean.

Hook up, you know. Yeah, all that, you know what I'm saying. So. Had my Howard homecoming times as well. Oh, yeah. Right, right. Towers, I've been. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're talking the language.

Yeah, he's, you know. So when he talks about the bug, I immediately, because it was right there. It's like, oh, I can't stop this shit now because it's here. You know what I mean? I thought it disappeared because we were going to be on a college campus. And we were in D.C. and D.C. was a go-go-town. Right. You know what I'm saying?

So when I first got there, I had never been to D. So when I got there was a black, blackety black town. I loved it. But it was gunggadom kadong kudong kudong kudu everywhere you went. It wasn't bad, but it was like, I want now, you know, I want my hip hop. I need that. So the tapes became, the records, the wax became like gold. You had them, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Yeah, that was what was in the water. Also at that time was the Rich Porter Alpo thing with Howard and everything going. on. What was it? Rayful Edmonds. What was that energy like where music wasn't dominating who was controlling the area at the time, more or less?

Well, their music was. You know, you go to those clubs, it was just like being in New York. You know, you go to those clubs, it was just like being in the New York club. The drug dealers, the pretty girls, the people that was there. But they there mostly their head of go-go. Hip-hop was like, you know, they throw it in there because. it was popular, but it didn't take over the town yet. It wasn't a full takeover yet.

So, yeah, but at those times, I lived right around the corner from them, Trey would tell you. I live right around the corner from Rayford, Emmys. Okay. In northeast. So the alley I lived in, my back alley was their back alley to their block. That's crazy. Right. So, and then I hooked up with, I'm sure you heard of the madness connection.

They were the clothing line right on Georgia Avenue. Shout out to my big brother Larry. He ran the Madness Connection, and that was like the hub for unity, meaning go-go, hip-hop artists. He was one of those people that embraced it all. So I was able to go inside there, and now I'm learning that they just like us.

Like they like what we like. It's just this is their culture. You know what I mean? So the Madness Connection was a big part of D.C.'s culture for us to see. like you said, what was in the water, and see how that water, we can throw it on some seeds and where it was going to go. But also to bring it back to when I came in,

just to show you the difference, like, let's just say he was, and there's, you know, that 86 era and those people that came in, and then they were like the roots. So we began the trunk of the tree, and I would say we were the beginning stages of a Renaissance. Because you had like, you know, Anthony Anderson there. You had Marlon Wendon. there. You had the group Shire there.

You had Ananda Lewis there. You had Taraji P. Henson there. Mark Pitts there. You had all of the, you know what I'm saying? Chris Latimer. Chris Latimer started the ACCA. Yeah. All at the noon time guys. Chris Hickson. All of them, the

noontime guys, they end up going down south and doing all that stuff with them. At the same time, though. They all at the same time. Puff, me, Harve, Trey. So if you could just... Yeah. So if you could just imagine that, you know what I'm saying?

And like so in the entrepreneurial spirit, right? It was the entrepreneurial. Everybody had a quest, whatever that route was. They were going to make something of themselves and become that thing that people kind of reach for later on in life. Digable planets. Digable planets. Right.

Brand new. You remember Sadat went to? Yes, Saddam. I just feel like from 85 to 95 to 95 needs to be a doc. Yes. Just on Howard University. in itself where everything happened. Were you guys there?

I forgot for Ron Lawrence. Yeah, forgot Ron Lawrence. Were you guys there for Bigg's first performance? I was. Yeah. Please walk us through the day that Big stepped on. 94. 94. 95, one of them.

I mean, it was simple. Howard University is a circuit on hip hop. First of all, let's start there. When you're doing your promos, back then you had to hit Howard. At all the HBCUs, Howard was the one you had to hit. One, it was in D.C.

Two, it was the most convergence of hip hop and the HBCU from all places. Yep. So, and so we knew. So, and Big knew that I went there, Puff went there. So we made a movie out of it. You know, we had cameras following us and all types of stuff, went on stage. And that's when Howard first really started letting people perform on campus like that. Yeah.

So we were one of the first that they allowed for that to happen. What was one of your first memories? a big, like when y'all first connected. When I first met him, the day I met him, I went to reach my hand out to shake his thing. I know who you are, like how you just did with Trey. Like, I'm, man, know you. I watched you on video music box.

You know, I was trying to be humble and shit. You know, you smoke? Like, it was like, you smoke? I was like, of course. And that was it. And then, you know, after why, I didn't stay long because I was just there on some meeting. But after that, you know, I remember he didn't necessarily ask for me, but I

I had came one time. And he was like, yo, you ain't been around in a minute. And I was like, yeah, you know, because at the time I was working. I had a job. I couldn't be at, like, them up under them. So I was like, yeah, I got to come around when I can. He was like, yeah, man, come spend some time, man, fuck with you. Because I knew a couple of old gs from around his way.

So, and then we just connected like that. So when we were talking and, you know, he liked the fact that I was kind of, I kind of wasn't up under them. But when I came around, puff showed me, like, a little bit different respect than people that work for him. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, we clicked instantly. And what were those sessions? Because we've seen docs and movies and everything where, you know,

they make Puff look like Morpheus in a Versace shirt of certain sessions of like, here you go. Here's juicy. Like what were those early days of even before Hitman, just putting together that first big project and what would become bad boy in itself? because the sound started with y'all yeah yeah um my role at the time i wasn't really involved with ready to die to that capacity i was there i was around i was in sessions um i think everybody got to put in perspective that if you close your eyes and envision this session there's biggie who's 19 or 20 there's sees who's 14 or 15 there's a bunch of cats from brooklyn around big who've never even probably been in the studio that big before.

There's Puffy who has had a certain amount of time in the business, but not 10, 20 years yet. And there's probably the producers like the Pete Rocks, like the beginnings of, what's the name, track masters. For some reason, it doesn't get credit for Juicy. EasyMobile and all these other people were there. But at that time, nobody was, you know, Quincy Jones. Yeah. Nobody was the outs, you know, so I understand all their things, but I sit back and laugh because everybody was babies.

Yeah. Everybody was babies. So to act like, you know, Polk would have made a better record than Puff or Pete Rock would have made a better record. We don't know that. That's like arguing championships with Jordan and Pippin. We don't know what they would have did. You know what I mean?

I mean, we know what they did without each other. They didn't win. So we can honestly say that Puff's role in that was probably the most experience in record making in that studio. So seeing him doing what he does. He's saying you say it was record making. Right. It was record making. It wasn't rapping.

It wasn't beat making. It was, you know, take a song, an artist, a writer, a situation. He's able to cook it and make it a nice meal. Yeah. So at that moment, he probably was the most experienced at that time. at 23? Yeah. 24 or 22, whatever how old he is.

So all the hate and all this, who was supposed to do it? You have to have to say yourself, if he wasn't doing it, then who would have did it? And did he form the hitman? It was his idea. Okay. Yeah, it was his idea.

And what was with, because it was three of y'all told it, right? Four? It was. I know more got added at some point. Yeah, at the initial. Who is the core? Yeah, like who is the core of him? And it's true, the hitman was four of us.

It was myself, Stevie J. Nashim, and Ron Lammis. Yeah. Chucky was already, by default, his number one hitman because of the coming off Mary and the first thing. Yeah. But at that time, Chuckie had started Chuck Life. God bless Chuck, you know, R&P, Chuck. He started Chuck Life productions.

So he was ready to start his vision. So he wasn't the main source anymore for Puff come 95, 96th, just around. So Puff decided he needed to find a replacement for Chuck, which was Stevie. Not a replacement. A bullpen player. Somebody else that can come in when Chuck ain't there. And Stevie was very talented.

Like the instrumentalists, if you will. Another musician. We needed a musician to make some of these other things come to life that sample producers couldn't do. And the musician may not have had the vision to do it. So again, all these haters have to understand what a person. producer is and not a beat maker. So Puffy was able to take musicians and say, play this bass

over for me so we can filter out the sample and have a more thicker bass. I can tell you, I'm going to skip a little bit just to give you that understanding. When we tried to clear hypnotize, Herb, Albert had initially said no. The cousin, Randy Badaas,

who was co-produced on it with him and was on the song, he heard it and convinced his cousin because he said listen to what they did to it. They didn't just loop it. I never heard this. They put bass lines on it. They played other chords on it. They took the

and they put it throughout the whole song. So they took hours but listen to what they built on it. So it's not totally just taking your creation, Mr. Herb, you know Alper, God, thank you. But we added on to it. And that genius comes from the

producers that can see the vision. It's funny mention that because, Just, I think yesterday, I got a story to tell by Big, the original one came out. Yeah, yeah. It leaked. And then I didn't realize what Chucky had done to that record. Exactly.

Was absolutely insane. Exactly. But it took Puff to say. It's usually the sample version sounds better. Right. I got a story to tell version now, to me, is better than the one that leaked. Like, Chuckie replayed that shit and made it 10 times better than what it really was. Exactly.

And that took the visionary of the production. producer to say this is what's needed in order for us to overcome this hurdle, which was we couldn't clear the sample. So most people would have just made a new, tried something else, tried another sample, but it was so infectious to us as producers, me and Puff sitting there, we can't let's just slide. Yeah. So let's figure this out, D, what we're going to do. All right, let's get Chucky, see what he could do.

Let's go. Was there immediate chemistry between the four of y'all when Puff, brought everyone together? Well, absolutely. Me, Ron, and Nash already knew each other. Okay. So, Stevie was the new guy, so,

but, I mean, Stevie can, he was, he could play. How many instruments do you play? I mean, he'll tell you 22, you know what I'm saying? But initially, when I met him, he was playing four, which was more than enough than what we needed.

He probably played more, but he was playing keys, drums, and both guitars. You know what I'm saying? And not to get off where we're at here, but the first day that Stevie J ended up on loving hip hop, what was your thought? Oh, shit. The first day?

Like when he showed up and say, yo, my name is Stevie J. Welcome to Loving Hip Hop Atlanta. To me, no, he's been that. Yeah, he's been, I just laughed because I ended up managing him for a second, you know, while he was doing that. So I know what he's doing. He's very calculated due. He's a Scorpio, too.

So let's not get that twisted. You know what I'm saying? Very calculated dude. So it didn't surprise me at all. I already knew what the rainbow that he was looking for at the end of that was. The pot that he was looking for at the end of that rainbow. I've never met StevieJ, never been around him, nothing. But obviously I knew who he was because I'm a fucking nerd.

But I also watched Love at hip-hop. And I was sitting there with my girl at the time. I said, that has to be a different Stevie-J. That's not the same Stevie-J from Hitman. I thought it was another Stevie-J. It was the same. You know, actually, you're right. right, but in the opposite.

I wanted him to go on there and play instruments and show that part. It was almost like they didn't want him to. But that had took it to a whole other level if they would have saw his town, him just, you know what I'm saying? Like crazy. You know what I mean?

And he does it effortless lead. That's the part. Like it's like, wow. What's some of your favorite memories of the life after death sessions and putting that album together? Hmm Skits

No huh Skits Nah I mean yeah My shit The more John Blaze than that Yeah yeah The skits were fun

Most Believe it or not Most of those skits Were done When Biggie wasn't even And you know Those skits Where I'm laughing

I'm saying You know I'm gonna get you All them type of skits Biggie was in L.A Doing those In his truck Like

Like You know those phones That you had Back in the days Where it's like black And you could put Put the phone on speaker like office phone.

It's just like this. We had the mic onto the phone. I'm on the phone. We're big on this side. He's in the truck. And his voice is coming through the speaker. We got the mic there. And I'm going, get you, motherfucker.

Faith! And I just bust out laughing. You know what I'm saying? Like all this type of, all those are super funny. But I just think the freedom of, for me, it was the freedom of being able to put my stamp there for me. Yeah.

with a visionary that kind of gave the outline, but didn't box us in. And allowed me being big, any other artist, the locks, makes all of them, to just say, go for yours, but I needed to hit this mark.

I'm not going to tell you how to hit the mark, but it got to hit the mark. And that's kind of how anybody kind of wants to be coached. Yeah. You know what I would think? We're trying to get here. I'm not going to take you step by step to get to it because I know you got some things,

but the goal is to get here. So if you don't get there, then I'm going, you know, put some things or tell you signs of things that can help us get there. That's what his role was pretty much. And if I recall, like, because we had to listen to session up at Daddy's house, you know what I'm saying, you know, drinking. And there's a lot of pictures out there with us in the studio, drinking energy and all and stuff of shit.

But he was super proud of the end product to me. That's the vibe that I got. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, because every time a song will go off, be like, your trade what you think you know what I'm saying for another your trade what you think like like he was really vested you know what I'm saying in that in that

project you know I mean Life After Death to me you could make a case with all eyes on me as well but I think it's the only classic double disc that exists in music history is life after death Let me think about that

and it's there's not a skip on a double disc where I don't even know how you achieve something like that was outside of juicy, most of Ready to Die was pretty fucking grimy. Like, it wasn't palatable the way Life After Death merged both those things. Oh, it was definitely a change. Was that, like, intentional when you guys started that with Big? Like, bro, we're going juicy all the way on this one?

The album starts off with previously on Life After Death, I mean, previously on Ready to Die. Yeah. Because it was almost like we bought it back. back to life. Like, and usually when people come back to life, they have a new take on life. Yeah. It's coming off suicidal thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That's what it's coming off of. Yeah. So I wasn't in favor of the concept. You know, they knew that back then. That's been, never been, I didn't go to photo shoots. I didn't like all that cemetery shit. I was definitely not in favor of it at all. But, you know, it wasn't my place at that time. So, but I understood.

and I understood the magnitude because I've said on other places, we did that album, we storyboarded that album. So what your comments are, it makes me feel great because that's what movie directors and producers and executive producers want. We storyboard this thing because we wanted to have this impact and life after death was storyboarded like a movie.

So I'm super proud of that. You know what I mean? And Big got to hear it. That's the beauty of it. He didn't die not hearing his finished product. Yeah. Yeah. And I can only imagine that's like really speaking words into existence.

And I don't want to get too dark in that. But it's crazy that you thought that out the gate of like, I don't want to be part of something called life after death. Like, unfortunately, it manifested itself in that regard. But not they don't want to be a part of it, I just conceptually. I just didn't think, you know, my mind doesn't go that dark. I guess that's what it is. Yeah. You know, I don't even talk deaf and all.

You know, I just don't speak it up. But the records didn't even indicate such. Like, if you look at the album cover and then you listen to the music. Again, that's purposeful. You know what I'm sitting in saying? You ain't going to have me talk. You know, he ain't going to have me in making records like this. I mean, me and Big have had our back and forths about verses and songs and, you know,

hmm, nah. aside from Puff because nobody really wanted Puff in the studio because, you know, he's a hands-on person. Yeah. So those moments you talked about that was I was proud was when me and Big were able to just, and I was able to say, mm-hmm, ha, yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Where was Biggs actual mind at during the Pock thing? Of course you got the bar on reasonable doubt, if they had to, you should probably have two Pax, whatever, but never got like a real. I think Adila Buster Rhymes shit leaked. That record is incredible. And it's crazy that big wrapped on Adela. You played that John for me. Diamond's on my neck. That point was woo-hoo.

I think it's on YouTube. I think you can find it. It leaks and then gets deleted. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it.

I thought I'm saying for the people listening. You can find it somewhere, I think, in the depths of the internet. Yeah, yeah. That joint was ridiculous. As soon as it came, soon as it came off the presses. I was like, oh, Lord. Have mercy. As cool as Big played a lot of that stuff of looking like he wasn't affected by any of it.

I can't imagine that there wasn't conversations about everything that was going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The story real quick is, you know, back of the day's videos was getting announced. They came in the studio one day. We happened to all being in, you know, hit him up is coming on the TV. Like, you know, that's what you tuned in. You know what I mean? And we just was in there like, oh, shit.

What? word? Yeah. Word is like that. Like we didn't know it was like that. Like it's like that. Yeah. So, of course, first, as people heard the story about dig him up and all of those stuff

because that was a conversation. You know what I'm saying? Like, is he really dead now? Like, we're going, you know, like, but that was, we weren't the antagonist. That's not our style. Oh, no. So our, Biggs response was, wow. I'm not like that.

I got to let this dude know that that's not me. you know what's happening here but this is a blood sport and I ain't no sucker and we ain't no suckers so chess is chess

so we're gonna play chess so we didn't I think was let's just beat them with hit records we ain't gonna do all this let them do all that every time they turn around bam

bow boom boom uppercut upper cut you know what I'm saying that's that was us yeah fuck it I cannot believe how mature big was he didn't want to

be. Let's not get his twisted. A 24-year-old to have that reaction to that is admirable to be like. The reaction was go get a. The visceral reaction was. Everybody, you know, he got gutter, he got D-Rock, he got banger, he got all these dudes, you know

I'm saying, he got a Ruga, he got all these people that ready to, you know, but that ain't us overall when, remember, there's a pot at the end of this thing we're trying to get to. We still got a to achieve. And that's when a 24, 25, 26 year old comes in,

27 year olds come and say, I ain't come this far to come this far. Yeah. Right. So think about it. We all under 30 making these type of decisions that critics sit back and be looking at us like we were 50 year old presidents of companies. We're all in our 20s. Children. Children in the business. Not children because we fathers,

we grown-ass men. But these situations weren't how to business for dummies. We didn't have these books. We didn't have OGs guiding us like that from the community or in the business. Right. So I hate when these dudes sit back with this criticism as if we were giving these books and giving this law and giving these commandments and we didn't follow them correctly. You know what I'm saying? That's that's that's that's that's, so when a young lady asks what we want to talk about, we want to talk about hip,

Hip-hop's creation of folklore. Okay. Hip-hop's creation of opinions. Mm. Where they believe their opinion is so powerful that they start to believe it to be true. So who shot you wasn't a group effort to sit in his head and say, let's make this long-ass five-minute record about clock. Yeah. Like, are you fucking serious?

Five minutes? We're going to get his dude. five minutes, we're not doing that. Yeah. We're not doing that. So squash all that. So that's what I'm saying, these guys come in and it must have been or what ifs and, you know, and I'll be like, yo, facts. If we just talk the facts, all this would be, it would be boom. So I mean, big love Pock until it became time was evident that it was just a game we're in. So that's when you start realizing that these relationships are temporary.

Yeah. Necessary and temporary. And it's outside. So like on our new album, we explained that because we had a moment. Yep. And we decided that we couldn't let this game change some of the things that we went through. They had to have some meaning.

Yeah. So for big, some of those moments had meaning because you hear Big Daddy King talk about how when they brought them together. You talk about moments when they were together. You know, he got stories about his words. wife, you know, they made up story, whatever the stories are. But you got to deal with that in real life. So why go through all that if the relationship ain't real? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. So, you know, that that was kind of the... Do you feel like that it's been a bit exploited with everything that

is now, like it's become a whole genre in itself on YouTube when it comes with Pock and Big. Yeah, because everybody gets an opinion now. They're interviewing, random pedestrians that happen to be walking by that day at this point that are giving full narratives to what happened. Exactly. Exactly. So at this point, you can't change it. What I just am going to be totally against is when I hear someone trying to rewrite history. Yeah. That wasn't even there. That wasn't even there. Yeah. That's when I step in and say, not that I'm the, you know, I'm the history police or nothing like that. But, if my legacy is attached to that

and it starts to get a little tarnish when I try to keep my shit polished then I have to speak up and that's what my issue is with some of these stories so big love Pock he wanted it to work out it didn't work out

unfortunately life took us on that crazy turn and it was that Trey was there to which we were actually at the party that night he was there too I love we all left like

Together. Together. And I remember, I recall it. And basically we left, Big was right here. We both left out. And I was, I was feeling kind of a, I don't know what I was feeling, but it was just awkward. And he was like, yo, Trey, what's the matter?

I said, I don't know, man. I just don't feel it. He's like, no, chill, playboy. We're about to go to the Playboy Mansion. We was headed to Hugh Heffner's joint right after that. You know what I'm saying? He goes to the right. I go to the left.

Next thing I know, Mark Quitz gets a call two minutes later. You know what I'm saying? he got shot. What did y'all do? Did y'all go right to the hospital? Yep, yep. Right outside. Matter of fact, I probably get,

because Mark went in, and Mark came out with the news first before it even hit the masses outside. Seas came out first through the side of the hospital. Yeah, right. Seas ran out through the side ambulance entrance first. Right. Screaming, shirt off, pulling the shirt off.

Everybody in the front of the hospital was here. I just saw Seas, so me and Chris Ladham was shot to Seas on that side. Mark came with me. Me and me and him was walking. And then that's what everybody knew. Crazy. Yeah, all. Let's pick this up, though.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got a dog real quick. Pick it up. Pick it up. Pick it up. It was not my attention to go down that way. You got dog. Let's pick this up.

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I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, listen up. The Jonas Brothers here. Our podcast is called, Hey Jonas.

We're here, since everyone has a podcast, we want it to as well. And we've had some incredible guests so far. And now our good friend, Niall Horn, is joining the show. How's it going, boys? Hey, Niall. It was the same thing with Slow Hands. Slow Hands is not about anything else, really, is it? You know, or taste so good can be about food.

You do the same, Nick, with some of the stuff that you've done. You too, Joe. Drop what you're doing and listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. All right. Coming off a very morbid part. New York after Big did pass. Yeah. New York was in a very interesting place between Nas already being Nas, Hove bubbling, Wu-Tang.

The lane was open. What was that like in 97? when it was wide open of who was going to be number one in New York City. I mean, that was the least about... Because they went right, Hoh went right to you to start volume one. That was the least our thoughts. Our thoughts were the person who started this, which was Puff, was ready to quit. So you're a journalist, so you know back in the days,

the Puff's album originally was called, one time was called Hell Up in Harlem, then one time it was called The Goodfellas. Never knew that. And the one. And I was like... that shit ain't going to work for me. Now I'm saying? Why not?

Because, you know, reality is that's my friend always, but he wasn't a real rapper. So for us to take the approach, like this is going to be a statement, was different. But he was ready to quit because it was just a lot, his friend, you know. So that's when I came with the title,

no way out. So we weren't thinking about anybody else because there was no competition with. Jay was still not. Yeah, reasonable doubt sold like 30,000 records. Yeah, we weren't even thinking. And Pock was already gone. And no disrespect to anybody else.

Just there was an iconic level that they had achieved that it was going to take a lot. Nas is Nas is one of those people you can't really put them in anybody's box because his stripes have been earned through the mud. And his general, his admiral ship is earned. it can't be taken away, it can't be boxed in. So there was nobody that we were concerned with. The calls came in because they knew that the sound was still happening as they were speaking. So even Buster Rhimes came out with a record

that had a similar bop and vibe to the Benjamin. It was dope, separate, but in my humble opinion, it was in that vein. It had that boom. And then I was telling you earlier, we get the call from Rockefeller. Yeah. Because there's a rush to get, we want your sound. We don't know who's going to be the next, but we need that sound.

So Rockefeller called. That big died in March, Rockefeller's album, that Volume 1 was out in December. So can you clear up if those were throwaway Big Beach, Sunshine, City is Mine? Like, were those thwarted? Throw away big beats. Okay, so that's already what I was talking about. Where does the term throwaway come from? I don't know.

Since when does anybody throw away anything of value? Yeah. So that's what I'm saying when you guys make up terms and run with it. There's no, imagine me saying, yo, these is my throwaway beats. Right? Throwaway beats. Now, I understand the concept. They might not sell as much as another one may sell,

or I may give them to an artist that is not as hot as whatever. But there was no such thing as throw away for nothing. First of all, Big was a custom-fitted artist, meaning you could have played big 20 beats. It don't mean they wasn't hot because Big ain't take them. Yeah. It just means big ain't feel them. Big didn't like the world is filled.

Y'all is cringe every time you say that, man. The locks didn't like the Benjamin. I cringe every time we say that. Because the locks didn't like it, it's a throwaway beat. That's idiotic. And that's what I'm saying the journalistic terms that people come up and run with. I'm like, we're y'all getting throwaway. No, they were beats, it's like a thousand other beats that Primo Mayor came for Big.

That Buck Wildmother played for Big. And he didn't like them. They don't become throwaway because Big didn't like them. Yeah. They become someone else's. So there was no such thing as throw away bigs Like we was going to use it for big But it wasn't hot enough

So we'll give it to Jay Shit don't make no sense It might have been big than like it Or puff than like it Yeah For what we were doing to fit the project I mean for volume one Like I always felt

Volume 1 was the best Representation of the hitman To me I know that's like not a popular take But if you go from the difference of A Sunshine to Stevie J doing Lucky Me To you doing where I'm front that's the craziest range of music quality I've ever fucking seen. Sunshine to where I'm from is like, yo, what the fuck?

How do you do both of those things? And what did Naj do? Did Naj do the one where he sold drugs to his moms? He's a... Oh, um... Miss, miss, miss, uh, miss not missing me. Uh, you must love me. You must love me.

You must love me. That was Nashim, right? To me... Stories? Volume one is, I know you go through everything you guys did with Mary, everything you guys did with big, but to me, after Chitotel, and everything, to me, volume one is the quintessential. This is what the hitman are in the range. Because I didn't really know he did. You must love me. Like that, that's even crazy. I didn't even know that for. Like, right. For, for, for, for artists that's not bad boy, that's not directed by Puff. That's not, y'all think it's programming. By Pop, because he didn't do that in reality, but people think. So is that your favorite in his catalog?

No, not even remotely close. But, yeah, I'm... Still, he got so much to the catalog. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm just posing... I think volume two is a classic. Like, I'm a host thing. Here's what I'm crazy.

I don't really do lists, but I've seen lists out there. And what's crazy to me is one of the songs from Offer Value 1 is still one of his top five songs out of all of them albums and blueprints and all that stuff you're talking about

where I'm from. Rolling Stone named it his number one song not to say it's his but he told me to my face

he didn't a show where he didn't do that. I'm not saying this because you sitting on the couch that's my favorite hip-hop

it's either shook ones part two or where I'm from beat that are my favorite beats I've ever that's definitely

my favorite record like it ain't even close it ain't it's the wild and I'm not just saying that

because you're my man but that ain't like out of all of the records that Jay got and you got a lot of

We got a plus with that dream right there. Where I'm from? Did you have Hove in mind when you were making that? No. That's my point. No. No. How old was that beat when Hove heard it the first time?

It was fresh off the presses, but it's, it's, we make our own Stanley steamers. Good. If I sat around and had to please another artist's palette, I would be broke. It's a bar They have to get into our space That's the relationship I play you something My vibration cues yours

And even if you're a rapper And you're dope Your vibration may cue me To make something But you still gotta love it In order for it to come to fruition Yep That's real

I can't just make anything Because I think Niles is gonna like it Yeah. And then you play it for him and he looks at you like, that ain't it. Yeah. So no. I don't know producers that, you know, unless actually you're working on a project, like if Justin Timberlake or Chris Brown or somebody came to me and said,

I won't work with, then I'm doing my homework on those artists and I'm probably going to cater to that artist. But if I'm just like these average guys making beats and waking up and getting a new MPC sample and just making a beat, I'm sure they're not saying, this is for Drake. And when I send it to him, he's going to love it. Yeah. No, I made this beat. Drake gets it, Jay gets it, whoever gets it, it's for you. Yeah.

I are you. Yeah. I hear you. Yeah. Did y'all think Jay was going to be what he was at that time? Yes, I did. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I was around it, so his work ethic is study, you know, he studied. Come on, man. The guys just look up. These dudes just don't luck up. they put in the work. Did you think? I would, I was,

I was, I was six when Reasonable Dog came out. Damn. So I went back. The first, the first J album I heard was volume two. How old I am, the shit.

The first J. Almeyer was, was volume two. And Jay was already, not a star at that point, but yeah, he was J. By the time,

by the time I heard that. Yeah. Volume two, yeah. He was, he was, that, that's one. And that's another thing. So how old were you in volume one?

came out? I was seven. Okay. No, yeah, 97 was volume one, right? So think about this. So think about this. How hard is it to listen to albums that predated you or predated your ear for when you really became a fan?

How can you honestly judge that album if you weren't in that moment of time? So I may have a love for Steve. That's a great question. I may have the love for Stevie wonders. albums. I may think he's one of the greatest artists which I do of all time. But my appreciation for Stevie will never be the same as my mother's. It will never be the same as somebody of when it impacted because music is the sign of the times. Yeah. Not of the future in most cases. In nine times out of ten, music expresses the times that we are in. So if you catch on to an album 10 years

later and are able to criticize it and not able to put yourself in those times, is that criticism fair? So I 100% agree with you, but I think that's the definition of timeless. I was not there. I like this. I was not there for a reasonable doubt. And this is kind of like my, I almost sound like the old man get off my lawn in this regard because I think that's what's lacking in music now.

that I don't think this is going to be timeless. I was not there in 1996 when Reasonable Dow came out, but I can hear that and see the embodiment of genius and classic in it. I don't need to be there for that because that's times. I don't need to, Marvin Gaye was going on. I don't need to be there to know this is instantly hitting my soul. Great rebuttal. So with that said, I have like, you know,

I was in my late teens, early 20s during the blog era. There's certain mixtapes that hold near and dear to my heart. But if I played that for somebody that wasn't there for that, they'd laugh at me and go like, bro, you like this? Yeah, because I was there. You wasn't there. You don't know. Timeless to me is reasonable doubt.

Timeless to me is life after death. I don't need to be there to understand how amazing this music. I didn't say understand it. I said critique it. See, there's a difference. Someone, someone can critique the blog error shit if they wasn't there. It's cool. I get it.

If you wasn't, there's Lil Wayne mixtapes that I know people are like, bro, you really like this years later? Of course I do because I was there. There's also timeless shit like what y'all did that my daughter, who's three years old, when she's 15, when I play hypnotize, she's going to feel that. Right, right. But if I play her a mixtape record from Big Crit from the blog era, she'd be like, Dad, what do you blame me right now? That's the difference to me with Thomas. Why can't you critique it, though? I'm not saying you can't critique it.

I'm saying how you critique it is. So, for example, you can't compare future in his moment in time to a classic made in the 90s for many reasons. But some of the critiques that come based on what I hear. And I'm saying not everybody does it. I'm saying one, technology changes everything. Some of these dudes are able to put themselves in your ear. in your faces more so than we were. So to even get one of our songs, you had to work at it, right?

So if you critiquing someone's album from back then, the work that went in to put a tape on that machine, to get the sound that we wanted out of it. To know that we only had, even though it said 48, we could only really use 46 because We had to use one for sympathy, and you had to keep one away from the sympathy. So we were putting three things on one track to make it sound a certain way. So the critique is like, huh? Do y'all know what we had to go through to get this song to this point for y'all? Whereas these guys can go online and say,

give me a beat that sounds like future or sounds like Drake, and it's pop up like a toaster. But isn't the end result, the end result? Like at the end of the day, isn't it? Regardless what the process was, the end result is the end result. Is it dope or not? We don't, that, what is the end result? Is it dope for that?

So my question is, what is dope? And who gets to critique the douteness? And my thing is to your point, and I, future is not the example. But there's plenty of artists that would not be artists right now unless it was a lick. They realize you to make money. And I'm telling you, you also get a fan base that does the same thing. They're not music fans. Right.

They just want to be heard in. critique something. But that was in our era too. That happened in our era. That definitely was in our era. Everyone has a voice now so you can critique something without listening to it at all. You're not even really a fan of music. You're a fan of critiquing. I think that's what I'm saying.

That's what I'm saying. I wouldn't even focus on that because those people wouldn't be speaking unless it was trendy to critique it. They're not really critiquing. They just want to just be outside. You have to say something. You have to speak on it because they're filling the spaces in that me and Trey talk about this all the time. If we were able to get around some of these blockages that are because of opportunity

and technology, what you're asking for would probably filter through. But in order for people like us and our age, there's a whole wall of system that you have to go through simply because I can critique, so I will. Yeah. And if you multiply that, what's the word, in exponentially, exponentially. Exponentially, it's people like you said that could just wake up and say, I don't like that. And here's why. And then there's a bunch of followers of people that will now jump on that train. Ravitage towards that. Because they can. It's monetization because I can get paid by X right now. By typing something out and the most engagement is going to be hateful. Because of a hateful world, it's negativity is going to spread way quicker than anything.

and it's the same way with artists that make shitty music, you wouldn't be an artist unless you knew it was a lick. You wouldn't be a critiquer unless you knew it was a lick. It's all a lick at that point. Yeah, I get it. And I don't knock. Even now, it's, it's trendy to hate Jay Z now, even when he's about to fuck,

he's selling out Yankee Stadium three nights to fucking run. And it's become trendy to hate on him because if I put up a tweet on X right now that is, yo, Hoves, a fucking rapist, terrible rapper. I can make money off that. But that baffles me with, I mean, you know, it's outside of music. Jalen Hertz.

Every blogger, every, you mentioned Jalen Hertz, your hits go up exponentially. You know what I'm saying? Or any type of hate towards Jalen. Like, cats that probably would never talk about him. He's always in the forefront of every, you know what I'm saying? If I spoke on Puff, if I spoke on Puff, the way that. other people did and went and told Derek Angeletti stories

I probably have 7.8 million follows right now. 100%. You know what I'm saying? So that's what I mean. The sensationalism of it is a little difficult to get around when you're trying to do what you're looking for

and find timelessness in some of this. So it's almost like we talked about is there ever going to be a hit record again? Can I call you a hypocrite real quick? Yes. You and 50 invented this shit. Invented what?

They hate. How to Rob is the first troll that's ever existed. You invented this. Oh, shit. But it came with a disclaimer. He's got a point. But they don't hear that. But they don't hear that.

They don't hear that. They had to hear it. This ain't serious. But they did. The disclaimer. But you know they're extracting. They extracting. You know what I'm saying?

I can say, I went. into it saying, yo, this record is crazy. But this is what happens when we get high and when you broke. So we put a disclaimer on it and it was funny. So I do understand what you're saying. And I'm joking too.

Yeah, no, I know. I know you're being facetious. That's a great point, though. No, what I'm saying to you, yes. Some people took it and ran with it because of something that my OG told me that he said in this business, there's almost a certain level of minimal, minimal, minimum, minimum

consequences. Yeah. So some of these actions that happened became really big to us because there's much more crimes and much more hateful than things that have been done. And people didn't get punched in the face for. People didn't get shot for. People didn't do this for. So that record kind of showed, wow, he could come out because I got calls from, you know,

God bless pun and Missy was a little upset and people were upset. So what are you going to do about it? How upset are you? you weren't that upset because nothing happened in 50 as a result of it the beef he got into with some street

other stuff that had nothing to do with the records and I knew from me from me being Derrig Angeletti in the business

what you're gonna do to me I wish the nigga would that's how I was feeling you know what I'm saying like I wish it was like so my point is

my point of saying is we might have initiated it but we came and said we're keeping it within the realms of fun and but that's some of the dreams

from big you know Yeah, yeah. It's the same type of concept. But also, 50, because I've seen, like, some of the streamers that do the trolling shit from their basement and everything talk about, like, well, I learned from 50.

This has always been my difference with that. Yes, 50 is a troll. But 50 is also beefed with the craziest people in New York City his entire career and was outside and accessible. Anything 50 said he had to deal with. I agree. Like, to me, that's not, like,

I'm joking. I said it was trolling. True, I get it, right, right. But ultimately. 50 went head to head with shit we won't even talk about on this podcast. Like, he said something and was there to deal with the consequences of what the fuck he was talking about. Right.

And again, nothing came to fist to cuff. He was the first troll. He wasn't a troll. He was outside. He was outside. You troll him behind the computer. Yeah. You know what I mean?

I agree. Totally. And nothing came to fist of cuffs. Nothing really, you know, it did a little bit here and there. But nothing to the. to the point where, you know, hip hop had to come and say, we need to cut this out. This is just beyond.

We lost Park. We already lost, Biggie. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think there's just a level of entertainment that I wish everybody would embrace. And I wish that the hip hop purists would understand that. You're never going to get that, Don. I know I'm never going to get it.

But it has to be said that they have to remove themselves from thinking that the game we are playing, that's a game, should have some keep it real rules to it. I agree. So that's the part of saying. I don't hear you wholeheartedly. There's a sector of people that think that even though we don't even have an ounce of control of the game that we're playing,

we sign contracts, we get in it, we do all of this stuff, and we want to create another set of rules for keep it real within this game. And when guys like us stepped out and said, we're not going to be in your box with that underground backpack purest shit, we're going to try to go for the bread because that's what this business called. It's called the record making business. I'm glad you said it. It's called the song business.

So why would I go into it and not want to sell the most music I possibly can? That's idiotic and stupid, but these guys believe that we're supposed to keep it so real that I should damage my pockets to please a group of people. I'm glad you said it. That's the most dumbest, and that's why I want to have these conversations when say, hip, you got to, what's real hip hop? You know what real hip hop to me is? It's like a jungle sometimes and make me wonder. You want to stay there. So all those guys that scream real hip-hop.

Hip-hop, those are the guys usually that are broke, didn't make it. They got some issues because it didn't happen with. They still wearing the same style of clothes. They wore it when they were hot. Those are the guys that screamed that. Those are the guys, I would never sell out. Them records and these records are not. Yeah, okay.

Then go do it in a train station. If it really means that much to you. Don't try to get in the record business. Don't try to get in the business. Yeah, don't try to get in the record business. Yeah, don't try to get in the record business. Yeah. If this message means that much to you, do like the Israelites, do like the Israelites, do like the Hasidic Jews or whatever, and they go out and they stand on the corner and they give the gospel.

Don't make no money from it. Don't do merch. Those underground guys, I guarantee you, I bet a thousand dollars for anybody. What? When they go on the road, they don't invite everybody to their room to read books. Let's find out what the new book is this week Let's have a leadership meeting About what's happening in the black community

And I'm sitting there down in Memphis With all these country chicks No, they fucking, they're doing drugs They're doing drugs They're doing all that shit So all of them guys that change their names And all this crazy shit I'd be looking at them like sucker dick

You're just posturing for whatever. It makes no sense. Call it. Call it what it is. I mean, that's real rap. That's real rap. They fucking the bitches that got sneakers on.

That's real bad. Outfits. Baseball hats. They fucking just like us. That's real shit. Them niggas ain't sitting around trying to do what's the new book list? What were you reading this week? I was reading Franz Fanon.

What were you reading? They're not doing that. They make y'all think that they're so for our community. And they're so far that every day in their lives is spent trying to better the hip hop community. This is getting clip. These dudes is crazy. Five baby mothers just like the rest of us. For shit.

Listen, man. Who wish these lickers would? Yeah, man. I think, yeah, that was definitely a strange. And it hit a couple people. I hope it hits who are supposed to hear. That better leave. Just let hip hop be hip hop.

It's vast. It's a race. It's the United Colors of Benetton. It's been that way. Pick, pick what you pick. I hate when Duke said hip hop started when we were in the community. We were doing this. I'd like them to name five records from 1979 to 1985 that any positivity in it except for the message.

That's real. Five records. You know when that movement came? I can name it. When I was in Two Kings and a Cipher, 10 years later. Run the MC had one. This hip hop didn't start off with nothing but being broke and talking about it, having skills and talking about it. having skills and talking about it.

I never heard Mo D make a positive record in my life. I never heard Busy B, get up there and say, to the bit, to the bop, and we need to stop shooting each other. Let's go. All right. I ain't never heard that shit. I'm getting money and shit. Pain is popping in a year, and I'm doing my thing.

Karras one was violent. Yeah, yeah. And on all these guys talking about the 80s guys. Like the 80s guys. Mm-hmm. Rock him. When I recall, I love, you know, the guard is, I love the guard. The guard had dollar signs on his chains. Oh, man. He was a five percent of him. Fly. But you can't tell me he wasn't about getting money. Thinking of a master plan. He was with Eric B. Okay. What was the

name of their album? Payton. Painful. This ain't nothing but sweat inside my hand. Right. So when we think is talking about this real hip-hop. What about EPMD? Their names was Eric and Paris making dollars. It was dollars. Word. That was their names. Word. How hip hop were they?

They were super hip hop, but they was trying to get paid. You got died in his bag, ladies and gentlemen. You got died to pay. There was never a moment in hip hop when nobody was trying to get paid. Even in Two Kings and the Cypher, we were making trying to make hit records. It wasn't all. just we are neighbors. We are, it wasn't just that.

We had a record on the Alco we are neighbors. It wasn't just that. Oh man, I got a big long caddy not like to build written right on the side. He's dressed to kill. Right. So all of this hip hop was about positivity, hip hop. No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't.

We had one record that these guys made and all of a sudden we put the whole genre in the message. One record. that he didn't even write. Why is this? I was literally, before you guys came on the phone with my man Jesse Boykins and we were joking about

the neo-soule image of shit. And I'm like, yo, these hip-hop heads think Slum Village is this positive shit. Jay Diller starts off the first record with what's up with the three-screw? Man. Clip that.

I'm just saying. I'm just saying. What my problem is... Elzai like those are my guy. I love. Of course. They ain't the most positive shit I've ever. Of course.

Jay Dillis say, yo, what's up with the three? Like, where do the ideologies come from? And that's from people sitting around creating their own thing and then running with it. Yeah. You know, I'm from Brooklyn, New York, from the 70s. I was 12 years old when rappers' delight came out. So I'm fully aware of what it was.

We're fully aware of the lyrics. I'm fully aware of what it was. So by the time all these other records came out, mind you, there were records out before rappers alike. That was a commercial success. There was white boys rapping in 79. There were records with white men doing hip hop and white women. In 79, you can look on the list,

when you look on the list of records that came out 79 and 80. So by the time we get to 85, 84, you got slick Rick, you got LL, you got Run DMC rapping over rock, records? How hip-hop keep it real is this when one of the greatest acts of all time got seven records with rock beats under them? Rock beats. They weren't around then.

No, I'm just saying to you, that just shows you the globalness of where we were going back then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. One DMC didn't have a whole bunch of records of Kumbaya. No. No, he was trying to get with Aerosmith. Right. Right.

So I'm just saying MTV. They were trying to get the MTV. The goal is always get money in hip hop. From the time it started, Sylvia Robinson did not form the Sugar Hill game to be a gospel group

at the BME Methodist. And go on a gospel. That's not what she did. That's not what this was for. And she got ghostwriters for it. Right. So let's keep it 100. Right.

I don't understand all this. The rap is delightful. It was ghost written. Let's keep it real. Let's go back to real hip hop. Now, that's a shock for him. Yeah. Which is what?

All ghost written. The entire, they ain't right none of that shit. I know. Who, who, let me ask you a question. And I want you to keep it 100. Who got more white fans, Puffy or Wu-Tang? Wutang. Of Wutang.

Who's not even close? Who would you consider more hip-hop? White people love hip-hip. I'm asking who you would consider more hip-hop. Wut-Tang or Puffy. You got to think about that? Not really. Who is it?

I'm curious on Roy's answer. Because we're talking about white people who like hip hop. That's why I got quiet. Oh, oh. Oh, you're saying that. Oh. I've been speaking for 10 years and impartial to everything with Puff after that video or this and that. I've been one of the loudest advocates of Puff having the greatest ear next to Quincy Jones.

I've heard you say that. I think Puff is. I just said if you ask the average hip-hop head, who's more hip-hop. Puff embodies hip-up. If you were to look up here, you were to look up. hip-hop in the fucking dictionary is puff. No, not your picture. Let's just say majority white folks.

Oh, no. A majority like the, yeah, the nerdy white people. Yeah, they would say. Not even nerdy white people. Purist hip-hop backpacks. When you say hip-hop, you don't think Jermaine DePree or Puff Daddy. When you say hip-hop, when you say rap music. Insane to me.

Huh? Which is insane to me. Yeah, you. It's the same to you. Yeah. But there's clearly a separation. As you can see, that's been one of our biggest things. is clear separation between real hip hop

and what the rest of you guys do. That's not us making that up. That's coming, you've heard that. There's a line of demarcation. So there's a line where it might say Wu-Tang is considered real hip-hop. Puffy or the Jermains or the likes of a rap music

because they make a certain type of record. And I'm saying, Hip-hop has been a time, man. Hip-hop is all of that is hip-hop. Yeah. But there's been some type of separation. So for me, I wish somebody tell me that I ain't hip-hop. Like, but I'm saying to you, but it's been said.

You produce all about the Benjamins. No, but I'm saying it's been said simply because of the style of records that has been made. And the way the rap's go and who your audience is. So because if you target a certain audience, that ain't hip-hop. Is rappers the light hip hop? Absolutely hip-hop. Right. But because, you know, somebody took the baseline from good times, they'll probably say, oh, no, that ain't hip-hop.

So I've had this conversation with Ninth Wonder and I've had the conversation with Fonte. They have a brilliant theory of where the split you guys are talking about happened. It happened with it was written and De La Soe stakes is high. And everyone just went this way. You either went underground or you went that side. I tell you, that's, how old are they? They haven't before that. He's younger than me.

Okay, so yeah, that's my point. They happened before that. It happened way before that. Okay, that's where they say that the whole split happened between underground and if you like flossy shit, it was, it was a dove. No, it happened before that. It happened way before that. It happened during my era, if I had to give an opinion on when it happened. It happened during my era when I was rapping.

clear separation of positive rap and gangster rap. De La Sol is another one of those groups that as great as they were and as great as they are didn't dictate the direction of hip-hop musically. The albums were great, but there's no second or third De Laas.

There's no repeat De Laas. Ironically, their biggest record would be considered not hip-hop, which is what? myself enough. Why would that be considered not? That that's more sellout samples. But that goes to the rabbit delight. That goes back to the rabbit delight. You take it. You take it. Me when I look at them. But they're considered real hip-hop, but their biggest record

would be considered not hip-hop by that. My point is for them, nothing about them is any separation. They were the type of group that can do A to Z and it was hip-hop. Yeah. That's what I mean. Yep. So they didn't. So, so, so like, You had a comment about, what's the name of the album, JZ's, Volume 1. It sounded bad boyish. Yeah. Or they're artists that sound, you know, Mase-ish or Loxish. You couldn't duplicate Dela.

Show me how. How do you duplicate that with who and what? How? So they kind of boom. And what's the other group you said they said? Nause, it was written and then Daila. That was the split. By the time it was written was out.

Which was 96. Okay, right. By the time that happened, we had already crowned Nas. But again, Nas's albums, and I'm just speaking from a guy who was in the game at the time, weren't blueprints on how to make albums. Because he wasn't doing the Universal Daylot thing or the Universal Ballet thing or the Universal bad boy thing or the universal Dr. Dre and them thing.

He tried it with if I ruled the world. Yeah. Right? That was on that on. That was on that. That was nice point with the fans. The fans either went to Dayla which then get you into the slum village like that. Odilla worlds or you go with if I rule the world which then you go to I am with

Nas and now you back with Puff. Hate me now. No, you're not back with Puff. You're back with what we do. We're in the music business. You see what you just said? it almost seemed like Puff is the face for when you go commercial. Yeah.

And I'm saying that's not the case. Puff was doing what Dr. Drey, what baby face, what Prince and Michael Jackson. We're all trying to go commercial. Why all of a sudden did he become the poster boy for commerciality? But then there were other splits involved in that too. It ain't just the Nause way or the daylight way. There was a West Coast sound. There was a down south sound.

There was a many. But they all were trying to make hit records. That's what I'm saying. But there were many directions. It didn't cause a split per se even then. It was just many directions. Go watch the California love video with Pock and Drake. Right.

Does that look like somebody trying to keep it real for it? No, they're trying to sell fucking records. Right. And I don't understand why you signed to a label and didn't want to tell everybody to keep it real and you broke as hell. I don't only get it. So that didn't make sense to me. So I was never on that real hip-hop.

I don't even use that term real hip-hop. I don't even understand what. that means. It's all hip-hop. It's all birth from the same original birthplace. And it's going to have its branches. Older cats ain't going to like certain things. Younger cats ain't going to like certain things. And that should be more than okay. That should be more than okay. You know what I'm saying? But it's not for some people. And then like I said, you got these kids that are maybe in their 20s now and would actually say something about Jay-Z is ridiculous to me. It'd be like, you know, LeBron, which he never did.

LeBron can never speak on Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Dr. J. Bird. He can't ever say anything out of his mouth. He wasn't there, and they've earned their space in time. And if the generation after us would understand that there is no comparison, we don't didn't try to do that. We just tried to take what Kane and Rakim and KRS and LL and Slick and GRAP was doing

and make it better. That's it. So these kids... Or evolve. Let's not say better. Let's say evolve. These kids want to say dead. Kill y'all. Like, cut it off. Y'all mean nothing. How?

The foundation you're standing on is what we built. So that's the mentality that throws me off a little bit about these critiques and about this thing. It's not just a critique. It's almost like, go away, die. You meant nothing to this game. We are the new. We are the new and this is how I was going to go. It's a hard pill to swallow some time. You know what I'm saying? It's all I feel swallowed. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sportsbook, and we are in the second round. The Knicks have swept the Sixers, so we can just put that over here,

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I want to ask. Now, this is great. One more question just on some therapy shit. what was it like being Kanye West mentor? He told him some therapy shit. He said on some therapy shit. Well, I mean, like, are you okay?

Yeah, you, you, you, you're the first person or maybe the second that has returned him mentor, turned me a mentor. He said that out of his mouth before, though. He has? Yeah, that you were his mentor. Okay, good. Well, I mean, he did that bullshit.

We said that he ghost produced for you or whatever the fuck that was when he was credited. I was another one. It was a serve you credited. That's another one of those terms, yeah, yeah, that got made up. But the Kanye that I see now is a different Kanye. And what I mean by that is he still, he was genius when I met him in the making. So that's, I didn't do that.

I didn't mold that guy. The irony is when I met him, he was living in Chicago. He had his mother. His girlfriend's name was Alexis. My daughter's name was Alexis. His mother was a teacher. My mother was a teacher and a principal. We had so much in common.

He's a Gemini. My wife was, I'm married to a Gemini. My daughter's a Gemini. So when I met him, he was hungry. He wanted the rap. He had the go-getters. He was pushing him and his boy, the tall one. I forgot his name.

He were really tight. He had John Monopoly in the mix, but John Monopoly was kind of more like a road manager because Free and I were actually managing him. Yeah. He produced for Trey. So Trey was around him. He did two, three songs on Trey's life,

I mean, live on the 25 that never got released. And he was hungry. He moved, you know, the story just real quick. He didn't move to Jersey for Rockefeller. If you watched the day, he moved because he wanted to be closer to me because I was showing him how to make records, real records. And he said his dream was to be a hitman.

And he, I didn't manage him because I found him. I managed him because he asked free to find me. I never knew that for. sound was the, my sound was the closest to his out of everybody. If you compare our songs. I agree. So he requested to meet me. And when I met him, I said, oh, shit.

It was to a little bit degree, not a lot, but a hear, D.D.D. Midwest. But this dude's ear for that, you know, them other soul sounds were just, yikes. Yeah. You heard that and that? Yeah. Ooh, ha ha, I need him here. Talked to his mother, got him to Jersey.

Shopped him around, did things. So I wasn't traumatized. I was more. I'm glad you said too because when they say that Kanye is a no ID baby, and I love Dion is to me one of the best. I've always, I always felt like he was trying to sound like you. I mean, no. To me, to me, it's always sounding like.

How did you hear that? You know, you know, Kanye looked up to no ID. But at the time that I got, Kanye came around. Blueprint Kanye is more no ID, but the early Kanye was not the sole sample chop shit the way. I'm saying he talked about no ID often. For sure. And I know a story that I'm saying as far as his production

before you get to the blueprint era was not the sole sample chop shit that no idea was doing. It was your shit. And he was still learning. Because remember, he's coming from New York. I mean, he's coming from Chicago. Now he's living in New York. New Jersey. So now he gets to hear on a more consistent basis a different radio sound,

terrestrial radio at the time. You know what I'm saying? And then different rap styles. He's in the studio with Trey. Trey's from Philly. So now he's into with Trey and the raps is it's not the same as you're not hearing these catacistons, these twangs. It's different. His lingo was different than my lingo. And we ain't but an hour and a half away from each other and slangs and flows and textures. So I was showing them all of that. He did a video where it said he went to the studio with Jay And he didn't know how to coach Jay Because that's not being a producer then

So I taught him how to say, yo, Trey The fuck, man, what is that? Say the word like, Trey will tell you We'd have those conversations. Producing. So I taught him how to be a producer Outside of track making. Yeah.

Beatmakers versus producers. Not versus added on to the arsenal. be able to produce the song and not just do the beat and you think you hear the finished product but you can't, you don't know how to get there. I recall there was one record that we did, Catch 22. Catch 22. Chuckie co-produced that record with Kanye.

And Chuckie and Dot were in the studio. I think this is the beginnings of him being a producer. I never forget it. We went Daddy's house actually. Makes in the record. He wasn't there at first. So him and Chuckie, Dot and Chucky came, you know, did some things or whatever.

And he comes in there. Later's like, wait a minute. What are y'all doing? I don't know if you remember this. He was like, wait a minute, what are y'all doing? And there were certain things that Dot and Chucky were toying with but kind of, you know, didn't elongated, if you will, and didn't. And he was like, no, you got to have that part right here.

And he was doing an arrangement right before my eyes. And I had never seen Kanye like that in Crazy Cat. Right? In the beginning stages of it. So I think because of what you're talking about, you know, I think he picked up on a lot of the things that Dodd was talking. He came in there and I actually seen him in real time take control and produce. It was like a candy store.

Like, oh, shit. I got another bass line. Right. I got some more. Oh, shit. Right. I got more drums. Oh, God.

Yeah. So, of course. You're going to want to. These knobs work. Yeah. Yeah. That's how it goes. Yeah.

Let's do that. Let's do that. What, um, what inspired y'all to. start law and disorder? Like, what was the first conversation between the two of y'all of, like, I think we want to start on this album? Was it B-Worn? No, over the last couple of years, I've been just trying to make records with Trey, put them on freestyle, and stuff like that. So I was working on a song called Appreciate, I'm called Appreciate the Hate back in 2019, 2018, 2018, 2019. We did a freestyle, so I told him, I wanted him on this song, he came, which ended up

being B-Warned. Never shot a video to it because at the time, you know, I had, my teeth was all messed up, so I got some new gybs in my mouth. So back then, I wasn't really in front of the camera. You wasn't sexually enough for you, know what I mean? So, so somewhere along the line, I think I was trying to send him some beats for something and whatever, whatever. And we were just trying to, we were always over the years have conversations about our place

in hip-hop. And then recently there was a time when I'm noticing that our generation is not being as critiqued as much, not being as told you can't do it. And then albums are coming out from people older than us, our age and younger than us. That's within that five, seven years span.

I'm like, wow, this is good. And I said, you know, and I'm doing black rob. So I draw black rob. So I'm like, you know, hmm, Trey. So we need to work on something. And Trey said, well, you know, in this time that we got to, we should shoot a video to be warned that we made years ago.

Be one is seven years old now. People didn't know that. We know it now. So we shot a video to it and the response was as if we made the record the week before. Yeah. And so I think that triggered the EP.

Let's do three or four songs. Let's do three or four songs. We got to those songs and I was like, this shit gonna come and go in a day. And I just feel like making more record. So, Tray was like, let's go. Nah, and then let's keep it 100, though.

you had a chip on your shoulder a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. I got a chip on my shoulder. Yeah, a little bit. Because I don't think, you know, going back to all the story we just had with Dot and his history

and whose work with and blah, blah, I don't think he gets the proper credit in my mind for being one of the top producers of all time. You see what I'm saying? I agree. And I don't think people properly heard me as a lyricist. I was hoping you was about, yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Because of the magnitude of the first record that you ever heard from me, which is the theme is party time, which is a monster record, and this is the reason why I still get phone calls. But I don't think that people heard the dynamics of the lyricism that I think that I put my blood. He always teases me about it because everything that I write has a purpose

and it's intricate and it's all kind of shit. It's layers and layers that a lot of the audience, it's just got, you know, party time on their mind, and they just think that that's all that Traley is. So that was also a part of the motivation to creating this project.

Not knowing you had toe to toe with Big on versus. I was just about saying on the 30-year combo about Big and because you have to ask yourself why would Big do a record with Trey. So there's a part of us that says we still need you to know why one of the greatest that you think is the greatest

did a record with this guy and didn't do a record with you. Because most of the questions are coming from people that are envious are the fact that Tray even got to do a record with Big and they didn't. That's real rap. I was going to let you all say it. I ain't want to, you know what I'll say it. But I also think too, like, you know, hip-hop being the youngest genre,

we're talking about off-mic. Like, we're finally seeing how it can age. Because a lot of times when we saw what would be, quote-unquote, older rappers, it looked like he was the old guy in the club. But now we're starting to see Nas doing. doing six projects with hip boy. It doesn't sound, you don't sound like you're trying to be young. Right.

And there's, there's also a whole audience, I'm 36. There's, my cousin is 47. Mm-hmm. He wants to listen to, the rap he grew up on, and he wants them to keep making music. That's a whole other decade. He's not even trying to, right. Listen to what's out now. He wants to hear Nas rap again.

Right. To me, it's, it's important to show that hip, hip hop can age gracefully where it used to be no country for old men. And I don't think that's the case anymore. Well, I don't think it's the case anymore either, but I don't think that the youth haven't body that sentiment yet. I think that our generation has decided that there's nothing else. It's almost like by default. They got, we got to an age where some of this young shit, I try, but I just can't get to it. So now the Drake's, the Jay Coles and above, the Little Wains and all of them, if that's what I have as a 58,

60 year old, then I might have to leave that to the kids. So then what's left for me? Because I can't, I love Drake and I love Little Wayne and I love Cole and Kendrick and all these. But I might not be able to relate all the way to what their time is. And keep it in the keep it a buck. Shit, they're 40. Well, yeah.

So, you know what I'm saying? But still. That's the other thing. They're older than me. But 18, 20, 15 years is a huge difference for the way we've been programmed in hip-hop. So 58 years old and 57s and 55s and all that When that opportunity came, I think it was more by almost by the fore Because our generation is like, wow, I turn on terrestrial radio

I'm not going to hear you guys. So Rock the Bells grew out of that. Yeah. All these old school stations grew out of the necessary need to feed a machine of people that said, if it ain't Nause and met the man with new albums, I might like a Drake song, I might like this, I might like, I even might like a Chris Brown song,

but I'm going to lean more towards Usher. But I might get a new, because my wife, my wife likes Chris Brown. She ain't, you know, Usher comes out, she's going to the concert. Chris Brown goes out, comes out. She might go to the concert, but it ain't all, it ain't all hands on deck.

You said what I'm saying to you? So I'm saying that I think we found a way to feed our generation properly. Yeah. And if we can deliver music, like I think we delivered on law and disorder where it's, it's, we're not reaching. We got songs like like this

that's reminiscent of old, but it feels new to me. Also need a lawyer like shit that. Yeah, right, right, right, right. You need a lawyer? Right, so. ESQ at the service. And then also, like I said, his story of growth, going from rapper to going to law school,

passing the ball, actually being a working, an attorney, and then still being having a skill set to keep up with whoever you think is high and the record making skills that, whereas we got guys from my job, generation that haven't gone on a law school, that haven't become firemen and teachers and they still doing it, and their record making skills haven't shown any growth. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. And the most positive thing I've seen from the disgusting part of hip hop media and comments was actually when Andre 3,000 did his flute album and he did an interview and he said, I don't want

to rap. What am I rap about getting colonoscopy? And everyone in the comments, said yeah yeah yeah no we're all at this age that no no that's exactly that's exactly what i hear you rap about right but that's like because we're growing with you as well like but again from his perspective 444 was the best thing hoe ever did to pivot to the people that grew up with them to be adulthood yeah yeah right and i'm saying to not every artist wants to put their lives on wax for their audience so if it's not for entertainment purposes only then why am I doing it? So, for example,

tell me something you really know about Buster Rhyms from a personal standpoint. From his records. He's the greatest dapper of all time. So I'm saying, if you need your back cracked, he will dab you and break your balls. But Buster has clearly decided.

He'll put you in a chokehold when he sees you. Absolutely. But he's clearly decided he's not going to spell out his life for you in wax. See. So his record making is going to be for entertainment purposes only. You don't hear buster

make introspective records about Nope, see I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna give you pushback and page if we have to mark this because we can't hear it. Best I can were Rhapsody. With that album, well that that album is all, this is all about dealing with custody battles.

But that album is the exception. Fourteen albums though. That album is the acceptable. As a body of work, as a body of work, that's not what you're. heard. So some people may say, some, it's really good. Some people may say

at this age, yeah, I should be rapping about this, but I'm almost 58, about 58. And on this album, you ain't going to hear nothing about me having arthritis in my neck and my back. You ain't going to hear nothing about the problems I'm going through with my daughters, raising daughters and all the stuff, unless I'm doing

it in such a way that can entertain you. And that's what I'm saying. So at the end of the day, record making still comes down to how do I entertain you enough for this story for you to like and love this story. And we brought up 444. I think Nas' life is good is the better example of that entire thing. I love that album. 444 was just raw emotion shit. Life is good. Life is good. It's the same content with records that you could, you could go to the gym,

you would be in the car, you could do that. Right. That's what's on the buster side. Busted to me is almost, he's almost Chris Brown like where you're a legend. You have hit records. You have all this. you've never given us a quintessential. Like, I don't, what's the bust the album? I mean, that's a whole other subject. I just meant content wise. There's some artists that, yes, you're growing with them, but you're not growing with them in their, in a,

in a, in a, in a sanctions of their lives. They're not taking through to every part of what they're going through in life. So I'm saying to you? Some artists do that. Jay, we know Jay's mother. We know he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's sold drugs. We got stories that we can tell. We know what happened with him and the guys that got locked up. We know what happened when they came home. How we put them on. We know the guys

he sold drugs with. You got an artist like Buster, who's one of the greatest artists we ever have. You don't have a lot of those records from him because he didn't want to put that out there. So at 55, 55 of all he is, you probably won't, you shouldn't expect all of a sudden for this turn to happen and all of a sudden you're going to learn all about Mr. Buster Rhymes in one song. And both of what you're talking about, this still is a, it still has to be, in order for you to be considered dope, in my opinion, you still have to have a creative aspect to it. Like, whether you're talking about your life story or you're just talking about, you know what I'm saying, how nice you are on the mic. You know what I mean? And that's what law and disorder is to me.

It's beats and rhymes. It's essentially, we wouldn't give you a peek into and a little tidbit of this, that, and the third. But it goes down to the beats and rhymes and how creative. the flows are and what pockets we're in the in the production and what pockets we're choosing to get in and out of that production i think especially at this stage in the game in order for us to be palatable to not only our age group but even those that are just being introduced to us for the first time if it's not appealing to the ear no matter what the subject matter is and that's where the the creativity comes in the play like how can you say certain things you may we may give you

braggadocio throughout the whole album. But how did they say it? Like, how did it come off? You know what I'm saying? And that, to me, is the essence of what we call hip-hop. You know what I'm saying? And I think law and disorder is exactly that. It's at my age, I don't feel like I have nothing to prove.

I have a chip. But the chip, I don't wake up every day. Right. Like, and it's weighing me down. It's just like any other person, you have to ask yourself, you know, did I do enough? You know what I'm a achievement-oriented person. When I sit out to do something,

I don't have to be number one at it, but I got to get it done. You know what I mean? I'm a get-it-done person. So this album was to show the world that I'm out of space in my life and he's at space in his life where this is semi-easy for us

and we're just going to have some fun, but we're not trying to take it back to 88. Right. Right. Except the record straight type of thing. I feel like we grew as lyricists, emcees, flows, and you can hear it. Yeah. And as a producer, some of these albums I hear that some of the ones you named, or some of ones we didn't name, I don't hear growth.

I hear moment and time for them. And it's a good opportunity to drop an album, but I don't hear growth. I don't hear a space that now I can see the maturation because of how you set me up. Yeah. As opposed to, I'm going to take you back to 88. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. And Lord Disorder is not a take back.

It's a, wow, this reminds me of, but it's now. I was watching a Chris Rock interview when Tribe, thank you for your service came out. And he was describing why that album was. good and he said it's the first time I've heard older rappers not rap about what they used to do. Right. You become the yesteryear like, yo, you remember we were legends and we did all that? Right. And to your point, let me say this because I don't think this gets across enough.

You know what I'm saying? From the time that I did it and I'm not just saying it because it's me, how many lawyers that used to be chart-topping artists are there out there? There's no one. there's a reason why that'd go against the system. Right. You can't have an artist that's also a lawyer. You know what I'm saying?

But there's growth here. There's growth there. And that's the reason why. You think Universal would like that? No, hell no. Hell no. But it's like that's why I damn didn't mention it in every song because I don't think you understand the magnitude of what this shit is.

Like this is some real shit. Like what? You know what I'm saying? But yeah, that's that law and disorder. Of course, if you can put it together, I'm the law and that. And, you know, it's a culmination of people know me as the mad rapper, they know beats. But it's also just saying, in these times a producer rapper, what I haven't heard, except maybe a little bit with Dre and Snoop, was any of these guys having fun.

Right. Like, you named albums, but them sessions don't sound fun. I mean, them just sound intense, dark. The weed is black. Like, it just sounds like the liquors, dark. dark brown. Nothing sounds like they was having fun. It all sounds so serious.

Like they got all this other shit going on. I'm in the studio. I got slippers on. Incense lit. We're watching porn. Oh my God. I got meat in the air. I'm not.

We doing all of that. I'm not doing that. That's a lot of wine. Yeah. He got wine. I got whatever I got everybody. But we having fun. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? It's like imagining. being in a Rihanna session during them times. Like, how fun was those sessions? That's what I'm trying. That's where we at. We had to set you. I'm sending songs and I'm giggling when I said to your dog,

you're going to enjoy this one so much. You know what I'm saying? Not like, yo, fam, we got to kill this drink. You got doing that shit. We got the gawk. Yeah, it ain't all that. None of that. None of that.

We passed that. So that's law and disorder. And I'm always going to be a habitual line step anyway. You know what I'm saying? So that's the. It's the disorder part of this. You know what I mean? Well, I really appreciate you guys pulling up.

Law and Disorder is out now. And just for my own selfish reasons, I want to tell you guys, this makes podcasting not a job to me. It's sitting with guys like you. I appreciate that. Like, like, little Rory, like when he was fucking 10 years old, couldn't imagine sitting on a couch with guys like you.

So this is something that, That sounds like, I don't take... I don't take... Little Rory would like to go meet you guys. That's just, I know you're not a burglary. He was smoking black amounts. Give a shout to a couple people real quick. Absolutely.

Before you finish, OJ's, yes. Riz Deluxe. Yes. Sherry John. Sherry John. Yep. God bless Black Rob. Yep.

DJ Blinks. Yep. Down there at Blinks basement. Mm-hmm. And everybody else will participate in, man. We just... Oh, my cousin Eric, who does the artwork. The artwork.

Yep. Cherry John out of Brooklyn, she sang on the album for us, did a beautiful job. So all those people, I just had to. You said, OJiz, right? Yeah, it is just everybody, good looking. Because, you know, platforms, they watch your platform. Yes.

You know what I'm saying? So I want to make sure that they know we recognize their efforts and helping us pull this thing off. And we appreciate you having this way. Yeah, we appreciate you. Do we get a live show? What's that mean? Yeah.

What? The show, when? What show? What y'all, I'm saying? Do we get a live, a live show? y'all got you're on tour anything oh you mean you mean all we do yeah yeah we got I'll send you all of that we gotta just yeah yeah yeah all summer long yeah yeah I was confused I was like you want us get up here just no oh oh do do do do do do that I was like no I didn't

no I didn't say we get a last room for the yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm talking the album yeah yeah yeah oh yeah oh some alone man we're doing DC next week we got five we got Brooklyn, Brooklyn, June 6th. All right, that'll be there. The block party. Yeah, the block party.

Yeah, gotcha. Okay, gosh. I'm through, please. No, absolutely. Yeah, we're doing that. Uh, for Charlie Mac and them join.

That's the 20th. Yep. That's the 20th. Yeah, off top of my head, you know, we did the other person here that'll have it. Oh, don't forget

19th, 80, 87. I don't know all that. I don't know. No, that's the other part. Rory, keep it real.

I love playing artists right now. Usually I'm on the side. This shit is so fun to me. I get to just show up, smoke, and do me on the camera. I don't have to order no cars. Worry about where he at, where she at. Somebody else, that shit is love. Rone with grown men.

That shit is like, yeah, like, this whole law and disorder is just fun. Yes, just that. We just have fun. So make sure y'all go cop that, man. For real, out now. Out now. Make sure y'all go listen to us. Please.

Begging. Appreciate you. All right. Love. No. It's that time to put on your jersey and wave your flag, whoever you root for. Why do I watch the walk up? That's like asking me, why do I breed?

And it's beautiful. The guys are young and cute and fit. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots.

Listen to American Football on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, How to Kotopi. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. your free IHeart Radio app. Search Joy 101 and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Cotfi is presented by CVS. All right, listen up. The Jonas Brothers here. Our podcast is called, Hey Jonas. We're here since everyone has a podcast, we want it to as well. And we've had some incredible

guests so far. And now our good friend, Nile Horn, is joining the show. How's it going, boys? Hey, Niall. It's the same thing with Slow Hands. Slow Hands is not about anything else, really, is it? You know, or taste so good can't be about food. You do the same, Nick, with some of the stuff that you've done. Joe. Drop what you're doing and listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships,

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