New Rory & MAL - Rory & Mal Don't Know Ball | Michael Johnson

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

On this episode of Rory & Mal Don't Know Ball, the guys are joined by 12x gold medalist and Track & Field legend, Michael Johnson. Rory and Mal get into the 1996 Olympics, the story behind the gold spikes, and about the time Michael met 2-Pac in a club. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

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Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally-due. dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from a Hypocrite Wednesdays on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. All right, Rory, welcome back to another episode of Rory Moll, Don't Know Ball. Today we're going to make a little pivot, though. I'm sure you're happy about this one.

So excited. You were an aspiring track star in your hey day. First of all, Division I Track runner. I didn't pay for my college because of these fucking legs. I'm not knocking you. I'm not knocking. I just think today we are in the presence of track royalty. I mean, four-time Olympic gold medalist,

eight-time world champion, one of the fastest men ever. Yes. I tried to mimic his style when I was younger when I used to run from the cops, Rory. But they caught me. I couldn't get it downpack. Today we are joined by the legendary, the iconic Mr. Michael Johnson. How are you doing, sir? Thank you for

joining us today. Good, man. Good to be with you guys. Now, we really appreciate it. Like, listen, well, hold on. Stop all that. Mike, what is the skincare routine? You look, you look amazing, man. What is the routine? What is your diet? What are you doing, man? It's lighting a filter, man. Lighting a filter. Light and respect to honesty. No, it's like, man, you know, just good clean living, man. You know, good quality living, man that's it do you still do you still work out every day

like is your regimen still like you still get some type of workout in every day now that you're not really competing anymore so I work out but like people get really confused when it comes to track because track is such a fundamental sport you know fundamental to everything else because it's running yeah the track is just like

football just like baseball just like so like you know what you did as a baseball player as a football player practicing now that you're 57 years though like I you're not doing that thing anymore. You're doing just going into the gym, getting some weights, getting for cardio.

So I do do that most days of the week, my 34 days, four or five days a week. But yeah, it doesn't look anything, anywhere close to what I was doing. Even at 34, this was actually a few years ago. I tried to do some hurdle drills just to warm up, played myself immediately. It wasn't. No, no, no.

My leg doesn't go up the same way. So Andrew, waiting to happen. 100%. 100. What was your event, man? I ran the 400. 400 just like you. Okay.

Yeah. Well, not just like you, but like he ran the same event that you ran. No, we ran the same lap. First of all, 48 with my skin was pretty good. 488 was my PR. Okay. Where'd you go to college? St. Peter's College was my prime and then I got kicked out.

But I would, you know, I think I would have made the Olympics had I not punch. to RA in the face. Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. You definitely would have made. That's what stopped you from making the Olympic team. I mean, Mike, I did,

I turned down Baylor to go to commuter school in Jersey City. Yeah, Baylor was definitely looking at you. Baylor wanted me, but I was like, you know, no, I'm going to go transform the 400 shit over here. Yeah, yeah. If that were true, that would be one of the worst decisions. It would also indicate, yeah,

why you did make the Olympic team. They went with Jeremy Warner. Awful decision, but they went with Jeremy Warner. I got into track actually my junior year of high school because I was playing football and my coach dragged me to the track in the off season. And that's when I found out I was even okay at this. When did you find out as a kid that you were fast? Because there's a difference between just like running in the neighborhood and then finding

out you could really do this track shit. Yeah. I mean, so those are two different things. So I knew I was fast when I was a kid when growing up. So I'm the youngest of five. My other four siblings, they're quite a bit older than me. And we were always a team in the neighborhood. And so I was always playing with them.

So I had to play up because I was playing with the kids that they were at their age, but I was faster than them. And so I knew then that I was fast. I'm like, you know, I could beat kids that were like five, six, seven years older than me. Yeah. So I knew I was fast. But, yeah, there's a difference in that. knowing your tracks and just having fun in the neighborhood and being faster than the other kids

and getting to a point where you realize, hey, you know what, I can have a future in this, I can go to the Olympics, I can have a professional career. I didn't really realize that until I was senior in high school. Yeah. No, it's a lot of the S-track people I know is like, yeah, and I got on this track shit way later than everyone else. Like, see, junior, senior high school is when people start to figure that type of thing out. What was it like finding that out senior year and then ending up at Baylor, which is, I mean, the most iconic 400-meter school that's ever existed. Yeah, it was interesting. My path was still a little bit different.

Like, you know, like a lot of people in track, you know, young kids will be in the sport just because they love it. They're having fun. They don't really know what, you know, professional track looks like because, and that's one of the reason that started Grand Sam track is, you know, they don't really. what a professional career could look like in track. So they're not even really focused on that a lot of times. So I wasn't.

I didn't know that I could have a career, a professional career in the sport. I wasn't thinking about Olympics or any of those things. So when I started getting scholarship offers to Baylor, that's the first time I realized that, wait a minute, there may be some of the future in this and at the next level. So when I transitioned to Baylor,

it was the first time actually that I first started training and the serious training program before that. You know, my coach in high school was like he was the defensive coordinator, the football team, and was like, you know, would come out literally a week before the season starting going, hey, who's running track this year? And so we never really got in shape. He didn't really know anything about coaching track athletes.

And so I never actually ended up in a serious training program. It's like at the Baylor, that's when I started to recognize the talent I had, the potential I had. what it was like to really train for excellence as a track athlete. So that transition was exciting, but it was tough because I had never, I'd never done that. So those early workouts at the beginning, you know, were really, really hard and really tough for me.

And I was a 200 meter spinter when I left high school. I never run the 400. I run under 4 about 4, but I never really ran the 400. I was a 200 meter sprinter. And even with that, those workouts were killing me because I had never done that before. So it was quite a transition. You have one of the most unique running styles, probably the most iconic running style in track history. Did they try to change that when you got to Baylor?

Because how fast you are and how you run shouldn't make sense. Yeah. So not when I got to Baylor, but when I was being recruited, all of the coaches said, hey, you know, in order for you to reach your full potential, you're going to have to change your running style. My coach was the only one, Clyde Hart at Baylor, was the head coach at Baylor. my coach throughout my whole career was the only one who didn't say you're going to need to change a running style. And so because he was smart enough to know that, you know, just because one person is running

different than the other people doesn't necessarily mean that they're the one that's wrong, especially if they're the one that's in the front. And it turns out at the end of the day, you know, after we started to get into it and then start to work with sports scientists to understand, you know, what was. Was my running style less efficient? Was it doing anything that was working against me? We started to realize that, no, it's not. But my code, you can see that with the naked eye.

That, no, it's a very efficient running style. Turns out, you know, through a lot of different studies working with sports scientists, that that's the reason why I was able to run so fast. Because I'm able to put more force into the ground because of my upright style than most people are, all of the other competitors. I'm able to put more force into the ground, force into the ground, equal speed. Next question is going to be, well, why doesn't everybody else do that? You can't just change your running style just to be like somebody else and make it work. It doesn't work like that.

If it's not natural to how you run, then you're not going to be able to emulate it. And the same thing with, you know, athletes now when they're running inefficiently, if there's something without them that's inefficient, yeah, you do need to change that running style. But it's not that easy to do. And that's why when you see a lot of people running in a way that you're like, oh, man, they can run faster if they ran more efficient, you know, and you could see with the naked eye that, yeah, that's not a very efficient style. It's really hard to do. Yeah.

But the end of the day, the moral to the story is, yeah, my running style was much more efficient, which is one of the reasons why I was able to be as fast as I was. So I was. So I just listened to everyone else and had not ended up with a coach who had the good sense to go, wait a minute, you know, yeah, it's different, but is there anything wrong with it and maybe something right with it? Then I would have never maybe even reached our potential. How do they go about doing those tests?

It's force plates that measure, you measure the athlete running across a force plate, you see how much force is going into the ground. You measure angles with 3D motion capture cameras and things like that, which was early days back in the 90s. That was the first time in the 90s, and the first time they even had that sort of thing. But you measure angles. You measure force.

You can actually measure the force that an athlete is put into the ground with force plates. So those are the sorts of ways that we were able to find that out. I have to say this just quickly, because we're talking about your running style. I told my dad who was, he was a national champion at Manhattan College as a 400 runner. I told him that we were going to talk today. And he said, tell Michael Johnson he stole my style. Because my dad ran that way too. And he was like, you know, he's much older.

And when he watched you, he was like, he took my whole thing. This was how I ran. Because my dad is a very awkward style. too. From my own pop's sake, I had to say that to you. This is going to make his fucking life that I was able to tell you that you stole his style. Mike, growing up in Dallas, we obviously know what the music scene is like in Texas. What was some of the artists that you listened to, like in high school, college, training? What was like, what was Michael Johnson listening to while he was training and preparing to be one of the fastest men in the world?

Yeah, so I started really listening to music. a lot in preparation for races. So not in training, because training, you know, it's like being a practice. Like I said, you're literally working with your coach on every single thing, getting a lot of feedback, feedback to the coach with a lot of interaction. So I didn't listen to music during training, but as a competitor, you know, when you're trying to get in the zone before the race, music was a real, a big part of my routine, just like most athletes now.

but so yeah so this is a 90s man so I was I was big on West Coast hip hop um two pox smooth death row that whole thing um so it was a lot of for me being a 200 meter sprint and a 400 meter sprint in which both of those events are very very different the music was critical to getting me in a type of mode that I needed to be in for the 200 meters and then also for the 400 which is different so the music was different so For example, the 200 meters is a very aggressive race. You've got to be quick, fast. It's all aggression from the gun, from the get, right?

So I would be listening like some two-pac, like me against the world, something like that, right? Wow. But if I took that same approach, that's going to get me in trouble. I got to be a much, much more tempoed race. It's aggressive at some points, but at some points is not. So I would be listening to not like some smooth R&B because that's a little too, too smooth then really not going to get you where you need to be, but it wouldn't be as aggressive as like some two-pox.

So I'd be listening to something like, what may be, I'm trying to remember what I would listen to for 400. It might be some up-tempo like DiAngelo, not the smooth, like, you know, like some devil's pie for me or shoot. Yeah, exactly, right. Yeah, exactly. Did you ever run into Pac?

I mean, especially 96 Olympics. You say, do I or did I? Did you? Did you ever want to Pock, like personally? Did you? Oh, I can't. I just think, do I like, right? He's still alive, in my opinion.

I'm on that side of the conspiracy, E.V. You won another one of those. You're going to go to the conspiracy. Yeah. Yeah, I did back in the day, man. You know, man, it was really cool. Interesting. The first time I met Pock was at a club here in L.A.

when he and Mike Tyson had both just got out of prison. And we were hanging out at this club. And it was kind of surreal just that we just sitting at this bar, like hanging out at this club. And I'm the, I went out because I had not been to prison. Yeah, like you couldn't share those stories. That's a good circle not to be a part. Yeah, yeah. If you want to be the law, that's the perfect time to be the arm, man.

But both were like idols, though. Both were like idols for me, man. Even though we were at the same, you know, sort of the same time, you know, yeah, it was like they were, I mean, it was, I was, I'm sitting here with this dude. I listen to your music to get, you know, ready for my, for my, for my, for my races. Right, right. Yeah. Did you, did you share that story with him?

Did you let him know that he was somebody you listened to when you were. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's dope. I mean. Not the part about being the odd one. I'm sorry you went through that, Puck. I can't relate. I mean, I know it's interesting with track athletes

because when the Olympics rolls around every four years, y'all become the biggest celebrities ever, but it's every four years. So it's a weird cycle. When you ran into musicians, rappers, or anything, did people know who you were in the early 90s, like pre-96 Olympics? No, not pre-96.

Not pre-96. It was rare before 96, and then, you know, and that's the thing. know for track athletes. I mean, I was the Olympic champion, world champion, making history in the sport, world record. They're doing all of these things. And nobody really knew, like, you know, in that situation had it been, this was after 96 and what that example I just gave, but pre-96, you know, I wouldn't have been in that, I wouldn't have been in that situation. I wouldn't have been there in that group. Probably wouldn't have been in that club, you know.

And then, but I had the good fortune of, you know, making history in 96. six at the Olympics at Olympics here at home as well you know which got captured everybody's attention and it was a really special moment in history right and I was able to accomplish something significant in the sport at that moment when the world is watching and it's rare that a track athlete will get that opportunity right so that's why track athletes are like you said you're in that moment but everybody may see you and they might remember your name for a bit but you don't have the opportunity to really sort of establish yourself and your greatness in the general public's consciousness unless you have the opportunity to sustain that and keep doing it and

keep performing against the best. That's the reason why I started Grand Sam Track, because I was able to be fortunate to have that opportunity, but most track athletes don't, because we only have that opportunity once every four years. You know, you think about like we were talking about, you know, as a kid, you know, running track. And like I was saying, I didn't even know that there was a professional track, you know, that that even existed because there was no exclusive home for the fastest people. Right. Where we have that now, every other sport has that. So if you think about a 13-year-old kid out on a basketball floor shooting baskets, you're like, what do you want to do?

What's your dream? Play in the NBA, right? I'll play in the WNBA. If you think about the tennis player, same situation. NFL is saying, you know, football is NFL. You know, you think about tennis, like, oh, I want to play in the Grand Slam. I want to be a top-ranked tennis player. You know, if you're a golf where you want to, I want to play on the PGA tour and now the

live tour, they have that exclusive home. Everybody knows where the best of the best in that sport plays. Right. You ask a 13-year-old track kid, you know, what do you want to do? What are they going to say? I want to go to the Olympics. Right. That only happens every four years.

So, you know, so even if you do get the opportunity to do it, it's not a real future. Right. Because we don't have an actual exclusive league. So what we're doing with Grand Samp Track is establishing a specific league at the top of the sport for the best of the best athletes, just like every other sport has. UFC is the home of, you know, MMA. It's the best place for it. You know, everybody knows it the best play there. Same thing with track.

Now with Grand Samp Track, that's where you go. So that 13-year-old kid now will be like, yeah, what are you going to do? I want to run in Grand Sond Track. You know, I want to be part of that league because that's where the best actually. compete. Yeah. No, no, I definitely hear that. Going into the Olympics in 96 in Atlanta, right before we get to the 96 Olympics, I have a thousand questions. I have one 92 games question. What did you eat that night?

Oh, I was, it was, I think it was, we had a lot of different stuff this restaurant. It was actually a week before the Olympics. And I ended up going to this restaurant, getting food poisoning. We had hands. We had hands. We had all these delicious and crazy. Amazing restaurant. Yeah, and unfortunately,

I got food poisoning. It cost me, possibly I was Olympic. I was world champion. I was a heavy favorite to win the Olympic over the year in the 200. Yeah, and food poisoning just wrecked my preparation.

And that's the thing, too. It's like, you know, as an Olympic athlete, when you know that, you know, this is only every four years, it's not every year you get a chance to go back and try again. You know that I may not ever get this chance again.

You know, I got to wait a whole other four years. So it was a devastating experience. I did see everything work back. Do you remember the name of? I came back. I do not remember the name of the restaurant. Okay, because I was going to leave a terrible Yelp review. I don't want to go back there.

I don't want to. That was all I wanted to do was leave awful Yelp reviews. I wanted to know before we got some 96 games. I'm sorry for interrupting them all. But I had to know so we could find that restaurant and get crazy on Yelp in 2020 of what they did. They don't ever eat there. They may be closed by now.

they're closed. They better be closed. Hopefully they're closed. And watching the Sprint documentary on Netflix, one of my favorite documentaries in the last recent years that I watched, I learned a lot about the sport and just the thought of, like you said,

you train and you prep for years for this 10-20-second window. Going into the 96 Olympics, the whole world watching, When you debuted the gold sneakers, like how hard was it to keep those sneakers underwrap and just debut them on the track? Because I remember watching it and when you stepped on the track with those sneakers, everybody was like, yo, we need those. We never wore track sneakers of day and our lives, but those gold sneakers, everybody in the hood was like, yo, winter those dropping. And did you have anything to do with the design of those sneakers?

He's also a novice. They're called Spikes. So, yeah, so I worked with Nike on that project for a year and a half to make this the lightest, most innovative track spike ever. I decided on the color, decided to make them gold. It was already, it was, it was, it was, it was, the design was completely different than anything anybody had ever seen in the, in, in, in, in, in the sport before. So we debuted it, we teased it a bit at the trials with a purple pair. Yeah. Same shoe.

Yeah. purple and everybody went crazy. And what was hard, so to your point was, like, everybody sort of knew that whether this is where you're doing at the trials, you're probably doing something different at the games. Is it going to be different? I did confirm that it was going to be different. And that just sent the media just scrambling trying to find.

What is it going to be? What is it? What's a way in the life? And so it was about a month later, the games was a month later. So for that month, I mean, it was under like, I mean, not a lot of people had seen the goal. It was like only a handful of people. We kept it really tight. Yeah. So nobody had

seen the goal. We actually did a release the day before my first race in Atlanta for the Olympics where we revealed the goal to shoot. So by the next day, just enough people knew, you know, if I haven't seen it, you know,

in that press release. Yeah, and people went crazy. And so then the crazy thing after that was every time, so I had eight races, four rounds of the 400, four rounds of the 200. Every time I went out, this was back in the days a flash, flash bulbs

that was on the camera, right? There was no camera phones. And if you watch like, you know, if you watch the video, every race, you'll see just like there's flashes going all the way around the track as I'm running because people are just taking pictures the whole way around. And they've taken pictures. And

you look at some of those pictures that people have taken. And they took pictures of the shoot. Yeah. Yeah. I'm You're running. Yeah, yeah, just the shoe. Was it, was it tough, though? Like, did you feel any added pressure because obviously the sneaker is gold? So it's like, you can't get silver or bronze and have on gold sneakers.

So you're committed to this gold shoe. Nike has obviously put this whole campaign, this whole thing together with this gold sneaker. Did you feel any added pressure like, I have to win because if not, I have these shoes on, these gold shoes on, and I'm accepting a silver medal, it just doesn't translate. Yeah. So I made the decision. They were shocked when I made the decision. They said, what color you wanted to be?

When I said, I wanted to be gold, they were shocked. I'm like, you're sure. But that was, you know, so, you know, for me, it was, I was confident that I was going to win a goal. Everything that I was, everything for that entire year leading up to that Olympics, that whole season, it was all about. winning gold in both the 200 and 400. Anything short of that was going to be a failure.

And for me, it was more, and I saw it as an amazing opportunity to do something special that this Olympics in Atlanta at a home Olympics, you know, being in the U.S. And so I was just more focused on that and not focused. I mean, there's some situations where you have to be more focused on the opportunity. So you're taking a more offensive mindset versus trying to defend against the possible backlash or the positive negativity or the possible failure. Because then if that's your mindset,

then you're not going to be in position to take advantage of the opportunity. So the opportunity for me was, okay, if I go out here, I already believe that I'm going to make history, I'm going to win both of these races. I'm going to win two gold. and I'm going to do it at home,

if I do it with some amazing style that just wow to everybody, that's a huge opportunity. I will, that will, you know, sort of burnage my legacy forever. People will forever remember that moment, right? And this will allow me to transcend the sport, which is what I'm trying to do right now,

help these athletes transcend the sport. It was really difficult back then because, again, as you said, you know, track, it's only every four years. I've been for the years in between, nobody really pays attention, and that's been the case ever since. So this is my opportunity. If I was focused more on, hey, I don't want to draw too much attention to myself

because I might not win, then I've missed that opportunity. Right. If I, you're right, you know, it would have been, you know, backlash. People would have ever been jokes, you know, everywhere. There was no memes back then, but that would have become a meme. No, absolutely. Twitter would have went crazy. I would go to winning the silver medal of bronze.

medal, you know, everybody would have talked about that. But yeah, if you focused on that, then you missed the opportunity. I mean, of course, you had golds on your mind when those races. Did you have a time in mind and was the world record also on your brain? Or was it just winning the gold? So it was all about winning because that's the objective, you know, I was already the world record over than a 200. But I thought, you know, as far as time for concern, I'm going to have to break the world record again. Again, yeah. Just because that was the quality of the competition.

So Frankie Frederick, who got the silver and that broke the old world record as well in second place. So I already knew that it's going to take another world record, just how far under the world records are going to be. I already knew I was going to break the world record again because when I broke it before, I barely broke it and that was by far not the perfect race. Yeah. Take us back to the first time. you remember seeing Usain Bolt. Like,

what did Michael Johnson think about when he first saw Usain Bolt running? 2004 was the first time I saw Usain into 2004 Olympics. And he didn't make

the finals in the 200. He was probably 18 years old maybe at that point. But we had heard about him down in Jamaica that there's really tall kid, Jamaica, coming out of Jamaica

was just the speed nine. So at that point, you know, you're thinking, you know, there's a lot of talent that comes out of Jamaica. I mean, they got, they manufacture so many sprinters down there. So you're like, okay, they got another one, you know. He's just different because he's really tall.

He was very gangly, you know. So you thought that he's got potential and he might do something special, you know, one of these days. But a lot of people have that potential. So it wasn't until 2008 that you started to see that, okay, you know, and it would happen really, really fast. You know, it wasn't like, you know, between 2004 and 2008, he was really, you know, doing anything. He was having some injuries and things. But again, you always knew that potential was there in 2008.

It just all came out. I mean, Asafa Powell was the guy at that time in 2008. I was at Icon Stadium when they had that race at Randall's Island. And that shit changed everything. Like, it was like, who the fuck is this kid? Yeah, yeah. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind. the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network, on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross

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on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big two, mean not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you You get your podcasts. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything.

Here, the Nick Dick and Poll show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Kugler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is? I don't know. You mean the president? You think Canada has a president? You think China has a president?

Does law a russet. God, I love that thing. I use it all the time. I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. Yep. It was a good one. I like that saying.

It is an actual Polish saying. It is an actual Polish saying. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time. I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick Dick and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian, and recently I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike! I'm a comedian! I'm not qualified to give good advice. me and my comedian friends as we riff rant recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known

to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people

you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrat as part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I mean, I always feel track is 70% mental and 30% physical. What is going through your brain in the blocks in the 200 and then what's going through your brain in the 400?

Just when you're in the blocks, getting ready. So it's the same for both of those races when you're in the blocks. And the thing is, just like any other sport, the best of the best know that it does matter. It's not a 70% mental, 30% physical, 30% physical, you know, 70% mental, all that. It's not about that. What matters is that being able to be physically prepared, having trained as well as you possibly can, is one component. Being able to be mentally and emotionally in the right mindset in those moments before you go out there, and those nerve racking moments before the gun goes out, being able to be in the right mindset to go out there and execute your best race matters.

The ability in the race to make the right decisions and execute the strategy and make the right adjustments in real time and a 19 second race or even a 9 second race matters. Nutrition matters. Recovery matters. All of those things matter. So instead of focusing on, well, how much is this one? This one's 10%. This one's 25%. This one's 70%.

Everything you want to be 100%. on all of those things. That's what the best of the best in any sport does. So understanding that, you know, you want to be in training every day focused on being 100% physically prepared and in your best shape when you get to the race. In your warm up in preparation, you want to already have a understanding of how you mentally get yourself in the right mindset to be able to deal with the pressure and deal with the nerves and be able to manage that so that you're able to go in and not have to run tight.

you can run your best race. In those moments just before the gun goes off, everybody's figured out what their routine is, the best of the best athletes. Those who aren't haven't figured that out yet. And so they're sort of just kind of subject to the moment and whatever sort of thoughts might come into their mind. But the best athletes, I already know

is what I need to do in order to be at my best when this gun goes off. For me, that was being at the height of focus and only thinking about what's the first step I've got to make. What's the first action I have to take when it's gun sound? I can't be 10 seconds into the race. I can't be thinking 20 seconds into the race. I'm damn sure can't be thinking about what's going to happen after the race or the end of the race.

You've got to be focused on the moment. When you're talking about the one thing about track that's different and is it calls for a focus like nothing else. We don't have any halftimes. We don't have quarters. We don't have timeout. You can't call timeout. The gun sounds, especially for sprints, there's no adjustments. So the 100 meters, you can't really make an adjustment in that race.

200 meters. You might be able to get away with one adjustment if you make a mistake. 400 meters got a little bit more time to make adjustment. But the same time, because it's a long sprint, the margin for error is much higher because there's way more time to make mistakes that you have to then adjust for. So it takes a lot. So all of this is, you know, takes place at 19-second race. I mean, when you're standing behind the blocks, it's the Olympic final.

You know that 19 seconds from now, I'm either going to be the Olympic champion or I'm not. And it all comes down to how I execute right now. There's no timeout. There's no next year. There's no half time. I can't, you know, there's none of that. Yeah. Right.

Do you agree with a lot of the flak that Noah allows gets because of his, his demeanor, his bravado? He's very, you know, his approach and his style is a lot different. I laugh at people that don't like him because I'm like, listen, he just seems like he's just confident and what he does. A lot of people are more laid back and track. You don't really have a lot of people in track that have these big personalities. But I just think that that's part of the newer generation and the new era is that you have social media and you have all these outlets that you can use. And I just think Noah allows as a product of that. Do you agree with some of the backlash or do you understand how some people who kind of like don't like

Noah allows personality and would rather him just run and not be so, I guess, loud? All of that. That's the world we live in where everybody has a right to their opinion to like or dislike any person in the public for how they actually are, how they look, who they are, what they say, how they go about their business, you know, and that's his case with Noah. He's the Olympic champion, world champion. He has decided how he wants to build his brand, who he wants to be, how he wants to be. And you're going to have people who are going to support that.

You're going to have people who are saying you shouldn't do that. Just like you have people who said that no, you same boat shouldn't be, you know, as, you know, out there playing to the crowd and whatnot like he does before. You have people who said, I shouldn't be so bold as to wear gold shoes. You have people who said Carl Lewis. was trying too hard to be a celebrity. You know, are those people wrong? They're not wrong.

That's their opinion. There's no right or wrong to an opinion. Everybody has their opinion. And if don't nobody have an opinion about you, then, you know. You ain't doing enough. Well, I mean, if you want to be, if you don't want to be known, if you don't want to be known, if some people don't, then great. But if you want to be known, you do what you want to do and know what is doing what he

wants to do. But the thing is that at the end of the day, no one shows up in races and he calls his shot you know and you got to respect that you know that he goes out there

and he calls his shot I think that you know he has put himself out there I just hope that he can handle you know the because you have to understand how much of the backlash

you can handle you know because he makes some bold claims he makes some bold statements along with that you know and if you're going to make bold statements

first you better be right if you're not right and sometimes he's not right and then he has to come back and apologize because he got his facts wrong but he made a bold statement you know so you know so that's the first thing and then you're going to have backlash

when you make bold statements and especially again if you're not right about what you say then it's going to be backlash so you know that's and maybe he's good with that yeah I feel like track runners like even like Shikari

have gotten backlash they don't deserve because I think track is similar to boxing. I know that sounds like a very insane take, but it's one of the few sports outside of the relays that is just me versus you. It's the purest. Boxing and track, to me, are the two purest sports on earth. They're also the only sport that has to deal with survival as well,

fighting and running. I don't understand why track runners don't treat the Olympics or even world games or any meets like boxing. You have to market yourself before every single fight. That's part of the sport. I don't think track runners should be quiet. I love what Noah Liles is doing. You should treat every single meet like it's a boxing match.

To market it, promote. Like, you're going to make your money off the promotion. Boxing only lasts for this amount of time. Like, that's what it should be. I agree with you. But I think the issue has been up until now. And again, this is one of the reason why I created grants time tracks. So we can actually be a home for that,

where we can, you know, athletes can. and feel more comfortable being themselves. But look, what we always tell our races, and we have 48 of them in our league, and they're all Olympic and World Championship medalists and champions, you know, is to be authentic. Because at the end of the day, you know, look, that's one of the things that probably isn't going to fly too many other places

other than maybe in boxing. But if you're not authentic and you're just trying to put on a personality and wear it, you've got to be damn good at it. like WWE, they're good at it. You know, they're amazing at it. They can convince you, you know, because it's how they're built. They're really good at it.

But if you're not really good at that, and that isn't the sport, WWE, that is the actual, that is the craft, being really good at selling people on a persona and being good at, you know, presenting that persona. And in every other sport, you know, it's, the craft is, the sport itself, the skill of the sport.

So in track, the skill is, is winning, races, being faster than any other people. You're probably not spending your time trying to actually create and exhibit a persona and make people buy into that persona. Now, there are people out there who think they're good at it and they're failing, you know, to come, you know, at it, but they think they're good at it. But look, this, you know, today's audience, you know, I'm not one of them. I'm not one of these young, you know, young people out there that's consuming that. But they are very good at sipping through bullshit.

Yeah. They don't buy it. They're not going to buy it, right? I'm not one, but I know them very well. A lot of them work for me. And I study them and we have to as a lead. They're not buying bullshit. So we sort of, we try to lean into the actual authentic.

personality of our races. And then because there's somebody out there who's just like you, no matter who you are. If you're a nerd, there's somebody out there who's a track fan that's a nerd. If you're into, you know, whatever, gaming. If you're into, you know, animals, you know, if you're religious, whatever it might be. You know, there's someone out there who loves track, who loves sports, and they're just like you. And now you're there person, right? So look, you know, if it's not natural to you, trying to come out, you know, and be like a boxer and, you know, and do all it. It doesn't work, you know. So we have rivals in Grandson, track. We have people who have rivalries. And some of the folks are, you know, quiet. And, you know, and they just kind of go, okay, we'll see. We'll get there, you know. And then you got some that are like, you know, I'm going to kick your ass. I'm going to do all of this, you know, like that. And then you got some who are like,

You know, just want to just kind of sit back and go, I got nothing to say. I let my legs go to talk and say that then. Yeah, right. You know? Right. And we put in, and it works and it works brilliantly. And we promote all of that in our race group. And our men's of 1500 meter runners, gold, silver bronze from the Olympics on the podium.

We signed them all to the league. They're a good example of that. They're all different. And they all take their individual approach. But you ask them, who's going to win? They all say, it's going to be me. Like, okay, well, you know you've got to go through that person. They're like, I know I'm going to have to go through them and I will go through them.

Right. You know, and some do it from the perspective of being a nerd. Some do it from the perspective of being, I'm king calm. Right. And, you know, and it's just different. Right. But it's authentic. And that's what I think our fans appreciate.

That's why they love it because it's authentic. They're all themselves. Yeah. No, I hear that and love that. To quickly go back to the 96 games, where were you when the bomb went off in Centennial Park? I was right across the street. I was at the Grand, at the Hyatt. I was staying at the Hyatt at CNN Center, which is right across the street.

It was a good night. It was two nights before. It's the Omni, I think, now. Yep. Yep. So go to Hotel. Yeah. It was two nights before my first race.

And I was asleep. I just went to sleep. I just gone to sleep. And then my phone kept bringing in with my brother. He had just got in time. It's like, you're okay. And I was like, yeah, he's like, man, it's like there's all these police coming by me. I just got in town on the highway.

It's like they set up bombing off somewhere near your hotel. And I was like, wow. Oh, you didn't even hear it? I didn't hear it. No. No, but yeah, it was literally right across from our hotel, right across the street. And it was, yeah, two days before. So the next day, we weren't sure if we were even going to run the next day.

And ultimately, they decided not to postpone the games. So we were, we went on. Was that added pressure outside of the immense pressure already? Yeah, that has to like change your whole They blow shit up. Yeah, like how does an athlete? No, you know, I mean, like, you know, I don't, I think it was kind of understood that it was an isolated event.

And then, you know, there was one casualty from it, you know, which was obviously unfortunate. But, you know, you at that point, you know, you just so locked in, you know, that, you know, you just focused on on the task at hand and what happens on the track. And, you know, I think, I don't think there was any concern. at that point, given that, you know, at that point, they weren't even sure if it was an accident or what it was. Then they did find out it was a bomb, but it felt like they felt like it was an isolated event.

So we just got on with it. Recently, there was something to kind of laugh at in track and field. There's always something to laugh at that track and field, man. We keep the drama go. But this one, this one, and, you know, talking to somebody like you was. was obviously track royalty. What did you think about the relay runners and the girl with the baton who said it was an accident with her hitting the other runner and the head with the baton?

Now, I've never ran track, just looking at it. It's not a natural, that wasn't a natural motion. That was her running stuff. No, that was not a natural fucking motion. So just asking Michael Johns, what do you think looking at it? Did you laugh when she said it was an accident and she didn't see her? Like, as a runner, what did you think in that moment? I thought it was crazy, right?

It was pretty crazy. The initial reaction was, what the hell is going on? This is crazy, right? But I think that both of you guys kind of represent, you know, the two different opinions, which is, you know, like, you know, like she does have a crazy running style. It looks a little crazy, right? And then she was, you know, you know, knocked off balance. But it looks like, you know, from your perspective as well, it looks like, yeah, she kind of wound up, you know.

Exactly. So look, man, I think you're going to have, I don't know. You know, I wasn't there. I don't know what was happening. Everybody's got their opinions on things. I'm a fact-based person. And if I don't have the facts, then I don't, you know, I don't tend to tend to go in on an opinion. I don't think my opinion really matters on this, right?

I don't think it's consequential to the situation and it doesn't really matter to me either. But, you know, looking at it, it's kind of one of the wildest things I've seen quite some time, right? I mean, it's a pretty wild situation. And, you know, at the end of the day, the thing that still seems to be, you know, most, unfortunate is that, you know, these two young athletes, you know, are, you know, in a situation where, you know,

there, from my understanding, there hasn't been an apology, you know, even if there was an accident, you know, that was the thing that I think just compounded the situation. You know, you didn't go over and apologize and literally left the track that day just, you know, I haven't just hit someone in the head with the with the baton. Right. And which sounds crazy just even saying that, right? I mean, it looks even crazy. You haven't seen it.

Yeah, go check it out because it is crazy. But yeah, yeah, that was unfortunate, though. That's the main thing that came out of it is unfortunate, regardless whether it was intended or not. And I look, I have no problem saying that I don't know what happened, but it's really difficult to convince anybody. You're going to have a hard time for being to anybody that that wasn't intentional. Exactly. I gave her grace when I saw the first angle when they were coming around the corner.

I was like, all right, maybe she did stumble. Then I saw the camera angle from the other side, like on her back. And I was like, oh, she just knocked that chick out. Like, it was definitely. There was not a running style at all. No, she clearly did that, which, again, to your point, I've never seen some shit like that. I was running on 168th Street, Armory in Washington Heights where there'd be fights after track meets. I've never seen anyone

hit somebody with a baton in my life. Right. That is insane. Right. Mike, quickly, how does it feel watching your world record be broken? Right, you know, that's a very interesting. It's a good question. I get asked that question a lot of times because the automatic assumption is

that, you know, you're sad that your record got broken. When you saying broke my 200-meter record, I was eight years into my retirement. I had been retired for eight years. When Wade Van Neckirk broke my 400-meter world record, I'd been retired for 16 years.

And I was in the stadium as a television commentator for BBC for both of those races. And look, in the eight years from the time I retired to when Usain broke my record in the 16 years, I had never introduced myself as the world record holding, because it was not part of my identity. It's not how I see myself as still the world record holder. When I was competing, I saw myself that way. And if anybody had broken my world records when I was competing,

then I would have been there would become mission number one is get it back. Okay. Makes sense. You know, when you retire from the sport, you're not going to go get that record back. Right. And just holding on to it, you know, doesn't really, that I've always been about goals and accomplishments. And, you know, it's not, I'm not, those eight years, like, people always say, oh, man, you held on that record for 16 years and the 400, like, that's a long time.

Like, I didn't do that. Right. Just nobody had run faster, but that wasn't anything that I did. Right. You know, you could say, okay, well, you put it so far out there, you know, okay, yeah. Yeah. That's cool. But the thing is, again, it's about the accomplishment.

You know, I still remember how hard I worked and how long I chased both of those records. And I remember the day I broke it and the team that worked with me that helped me break them. That's what you remember. You'll cherish that moment forever is the accomplishment. But the idea that you're going to hold on to a record, you know, until you die. I mean, by the time I, you know, had retired, I moved on to doing other things. And I was accomplishing other things as an entrepreneur, you know. And so I wasn't caught up in being the world record.

So things didn't really change for me. I remember going into the studio, So the next day after the record was broken and one of my co-hosts on another show that I do for BBC during the Olympics, she was like, everybody's like, are you okay? And I was like, what? There's somebody dying? What is going on, right? Did you have, all right? So when Ysaint Bolt broke the 100 meter record, it almost felt like he jogged through the fucking line of how amazing he was.

as a track icon, you understand body language and facial expressions. He fought for that 200. I've never seen Usain Boat put in the effort he did to break that record. While you were watching it, it was like, all right, cool. But Usain has never looked like he was struggling until it was time to try to break your record. His whole face on that 200 was we had never even seen Usain look like that. But he has always said. and has said then, like, the 200 meters was always his favorite race.

Because he, that was, that was, that was, that was, nobody even thought he was ever going to be a 100 meter runner. Oh, wow. He doesn't make sense. Yeah. 200 meters was his race. Should be a foreign runner. That's the one that he wanted most. And like, but you knew it was coming.

Like, I mean, like, I remember the day of that race. And I was like, doing some analysis for BBC. And I was like, I'll be shocked if he doesn't break this world record, right? And was crazy that I thought he. I thought he was going to run. So ultimately he ran 19.18, which is the world record today. But when he broke it the first time, what I had ran was 19.32. And he ran 19.3.1.

And you could just tell that day, even his demeanor was different. Like, I'm going to break this record no matter what I don't care what it takes, right? Because that's the one they always wanted. And I think that was the one also that he probably felt like, if I'm going to break it, I'm going to break that one first. And it didn't come first. The 100 came first. So I know it was something he always wanted, but I didn't feel like he was struggling.

I felt like he was just, if you look at it, he just trying really hard, which is actually what you shouldn't do. Yeah, we've never seen. His swagger and his calmness was trying really hard. Yeah. Because, you know, I think in the 100, it was always sort of, you know, I'm going to get this record, you know. When the first time he broke it, he shocked himself.

He wasn't even expecting a break. And nobody thought he was on break. It came out of nowhere. The next time he broke it, I think, you know, at the Olympics in 20. in 2008. You know, I think then it was kind of like, yeah, I think I know I'm going to break it again, but the 200, he was trying hard. Yeah.

And he really wanted it and got it. Yeah. Mike, quickly before we let you go, talk to us a little bit more about Grand Slam Track. What is the goal outside of just giving runners a home when it's not the Olympics? What is the goal in the mission with Grand Slam Track? Yeah, the ultimate vision for it is, you know, Grand Slam Track should be the Formula One the UFC of track, you know, of the fastest people in the world.

And so we know that there's a fan base out there for this sport. They watch it every year. There's, you know, 100, about 100 million people a year watching two track meets over 300 million people a year watching at least two track meets. And, you know, and during the Olympics, everybody's watching the sport. They love it. And it's their favorite sport. So the structure of the sport just has not been sufficient because there hasn't been a true home for these athletes as a league.

So, you know, we feel very confident that we can get there. And so it's delivering to fans the same type of epic competition between the fastest people with storytelling, highlighting these personalities. But primarily the main thing here is having the fastest people competing against one of the best. another, which we typically don't see outside of the Olympics because the structure hasn't been there to actually compensate their athletes in order to make it worth their while. We put these athletes under contract. We have the fastest people on the planet under contract in this exclusive home for them with Bandsam track. Why hasn't, I mean, I'm happy that you're doing this, but why hasn't it been anything like this with track? Like, what is the, what do you think

is in the way of that? As a, it's a little bit complex, but as an Olympics sport, um, It's been primarily left to global federation, the global governing bodies of the sport. Governing bodies are great at rules and governance. That's what they do really well. They're not great at marketing and commercialization, which is what it takes to be a modern, thriving sports property. And it typically takes a for-profit, private, unpolitical organization to be able to do that, which is what we are.

We're a venture-backed private for-profit, you know, entity, just like most other professional sports are. And so no one has been able to marshal all of the resources as well to understand the sport at the level that I have, having been an athlete, having represented athletes, Jeremy Warren, was one of my clients from my sports management company, represented. So we've represented athletes. I've been a television

commentator for 22 years covering the sport as well. So I understand the sport at sort of all angles and have been able to recognize, you know, what is needed in order for this sport to be able to thrive. But then you also have to have

the ability to then sort of step outside of the sport. I'm a fan of the sport, but typically, you know, as a fan, you're sort of protective of, of, you know, this sport and what it has always been and how it's traditionally been. And that can be, it's almost like that thing, you know,

like if you hug something too tight and squeeze it, you know, you'll squeeze the life out of and you don't let it thrive. And that's sort of what happens a lot with try. They have a lot of people that are involved in the sport and have been for many years that love this sport, but they love it too much that they don't let it thrive. And so what has happened is as you've seen the media landscape and how broadcast media and traditional media has changed in response to social media and digital media and how all of those things are changing.

Those things are changing as well as people's viewing habits and the way fans engage with sport and engage with entertainment. All of those things have changed. Most sports continue to change along with that out of necessity. As an Olympic sport, you don't feel oftentimes like you need to change and then you want to hold on to this traditional way of doing things. and that has caused the sport to fall behind dramatically. And so we are, you know, kind of sit outside of that structure and have the ability to do things that are much more, you know, create a much more modern presentation of the sport

and capitalize on all of the sort of digital technology tools that are out there, but also to understand what people's viewing habits are and what they really want to see, how they want to engage with sport, and be able to build our league around all of those things. That's amazing. we can help out with that, like, on a commentating side, content around it, we're here. Yeah, I would love to come out and just see the whole. Let's do that.

Let's do that. Let's do that. Incredible. Buy some tickets and come to an event. 100%. Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah. If you're not, watch it on TV.

Yeah, no. We definitely will. What we can get. Can I put you on the spot right before we let you go? I see the ring on your finger. So if you want to pass on this question, it's totally fine. There was an article this year talking about how. how freaky the Olympic Village gets.

And how many, no, I'm telling you, there was like, it was in New York Times of how many condoms are used at the Olympic Village. You could pass on the question. It's fine. I just, I'm going to ask it, though. Look, man, I mean, if I could answer it, I would. I can't because I've never stayed in the village.

So whatever was going on, I missed all that. They had Mike, they have Mike in his own fucking crib. Mike there, he wasn't with you peasants. The world's fastest man is not staying in the village. in the village, man, but I, you know, I, I heard the stories that I never, I never stayed in the village. I respect it. Mike, listen, man. So I missed out on whatever was going on. It sounds like it was epic, but I missed it. It sounds like it was a great time, but I missed it. Mike, listen, man, we appreciate you, man. We appreciate you. We appreciate you. Congrats with everything you're doing

with Grand Slam track. We're definitely going to support it. Definitely want to come to a couple of events and races just to see everything that you're building with Grand Slam. We appreciate you. It's an honor and a privilege to have some time with you. And thank you for entertaining us over the years. Thank you for giving us something to look at and just being awe of. And just thank you for kicking with us today. We appreciate it. As a former track runner, thank you so much for what you're doing with Grand Slam. That means a lot to track runners to finally make this thing really matter and actually get what we're worth in this entire thing. So any way we can help. I am here for sure.

So thank you so much. I appreciate that, man. Appreciate you guys. Appreciate the support. Thank you, man. Appreciate you. All right. Take care.

Peace. On the Look Back at it podcast. 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. It's much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far. But I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football,

all leading up to the 20. 26 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Joey Dardano, and on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant

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