New Rory & MAL - Rory & Mal Don't Know Ball | Victor Cruz

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

On this episode of "Rory & Mal Don't Know Ball", the guys are joined by Super Bowl Champion and New York Giants legend, Victor Cruz! Rory and Mal ask Victor about his first time meeting Jay-Z, the first time he did the salsa after scoring a touchdown, and what it was like playing with Eli ManningSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green, co-hosted at the podcast The Away End

with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man.

They hold and Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the T, everybody's talking about. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

The volume. All right, Rory, today we are joined by another friend, family, I've seen this gentleman out in the city a few times and definitely spoke about sitting down and chopping up soon. So today is the day. We are joined by Patterson, New Jersey legend, Super Bowl champion.

One of the coolest guys that I know and it's always great respect and great energy whenever we bump into each other. So I'm happy he's here to join us today. We are with the legendary Victor Cruz. It was good. I was waiting for the clap. I didn't know if the clap was going to happen.

We're putting in your piece. Put it here. Okay, good. left out kith model. Oh yeah, he can't forget that's more important than the Super Bowl. Kith model. Stay focused. Yeah, Vic, how you feeling, man?

I'm good, my brother. I'm good. So it's good seeing you, man. You still look like you ready to go play right now. It's a pleasure. I got to stay ready so I don't have to get ready. That's the key. Always.

You already know. But looking back, do you look at the game like now and feel like physically like, because I know how it is when you play and you're like, ah, I can still get out there. But do you look at it like, there's no way I'll ever. I'm toast. That's dead. That's dead. My body is not in shape to go across that middle.

And I still think about it now to this day where I'd be like, yo, like, I was a little nuts. Like I was a little half crazy to go out there knowing what I was about to put my body through week in and week out. And I was out there willingly doing it. But it was because of like the euphoria of succeeding, right? And like making those touchdowns and having that moment. Like those are the moments that I kept striving for. and obviously getting paid and taking care of the family. Absolutely.

That helps. Yeah. That helps. To go across the middle. Yeah. I was a lot back there. Yeah. I mean, fuck that.

Everyone eats. Exactly. But how's life post-playing football? How has the adjustment been for you? Life's been pretty good. You've been doing some analyst work. I've been doing some analyst work. I've been doing a lot of entrepreneurial work.

I ain't going to lie, though, when I first retired, it was tough. Because it's like, you know, football is my identity. I didn't know. You know, I had done a lot of things while I was playing to kind of prepare myself. I did some TV things. I hosted a couple things on MTV and was just doing things in that space so I could prepare myself for what comes after. But that was all just while I was playing, that was fun until the shit actually happens.

And you're like, oh, the curtain's closed. Like, I got to figure something out. So I did the analyst work, but I always knew that I wanted to do more things. I always wanted to host things, host different opportunities. I still work with the Giants a bunch. I got my own show on there called. players lounge where I just chop it up with the players about things outside the game entrepreneurial things I'm bringing a crystals chicken to paterson new jersey for the first time

so like I'm doing different things so it's been it's been really I've been traveling the world um just doing different things I picked up golf which is like the retiree thing to do that's a very humbling sport yeah oh extremely very humbling sport because you as a one of the football players y'all are probably the apex of athletes so for somebody that played at the level you played at Transitioning into golf, how much is that humble you? Will you feel like, I'm Victor Cruz,

I'm in shape, I can do anything. It's the most, I don't give a fuck who you are. I don't care. Don't take the middle linebacker. I prefer.

I'm more comfortable then. Yeah, yeah. Because I got a helmet on. Like if something happens, I could kind of hide underneath there. Nah, golf, you hit a bad shot,

or you shank one into, and I wanted to put myself in the uncomfortable positions first. So I played in pro-ams out the gate first year playing. Oh, wow. I'm in year four now. So I'm a little bit better.

A lot better than I was than actually. But year one, I wanted to get that bug out. Because I knew I was going to be out. I knew I wanted to, you know, show my personality on the golf course so that I could drive other types of business. And that first year, playing in front of people, topping the golf ball, shanking one to the right, telling people to duck. Like, it's different.

It's humbling. But what I love about the sport is that everyone was there. Even the pros, even the Roy McElroy's, and all of those guys. were you once. Yeah, okay. And so there's never like, you know, basketball, you dribble off your food, like, ah, you stink, like, get over there, don't play with us. Yeah.

When you shank one in golf, people come up to you was like, yo, here's how you do it. Kind of have your hands here, kind of figure. It's a more coachable sport because they're looking at you like I was there once and I would want someone to tell me, you know, what I'm about to tell you because I was once you. Was that always the plan in retirement, picking up another sport? Yeah. I think that just golf, but you don't.

Absolutely not. I think golf came later on. I had a homeboy who was like, yo, you need to golf golf. Like, even when I was playing for years, he was like, you need to do this. You need to pick it up. I promise you. And I was just like, that shit's corny. I ain't playing that.

I'm not getting up at 5 a.m. 6 a.m. to go to somebody's golf court because I didn't understand it. And then once I retired and then my daughter also plays. So she picked it up when she was six. And at first it was just some shit she did with the nanny that I was just like, just go. Whatever makes her tired at 8 o'clock.

Yeah. Go do that. So after school she would go And then she kept going And then she kept going And then now she's nine And we got her like a real coach Yeah

And then it was around like nine Where I was like let me go see Where my money's going Yeah And she went I went to a practice We got there a little early She's like daddy

I want to warm up a little bit I was like all right bet She grabbed her putter Took three golf balls Dropped them on the putting green Took her time Put three jump And it was like quiet

And my daughter is like Very high energy Yeah Always talking Super smart But always got to cook And she was It was quiet.

I was like, oh, this is the sport that gets you to shut the fuck up. Yeah. And just lock in? Yeah, let's do that. I'm doing this with you. And then COVID hit. Okay. So right when COVID hit, I got in because golf was pretty much the only thing you could do.

Yeah. That was like, you know, outdoors. And you're not close to anybody, really. So I picked it up, started taking lessons and then it was off to the races. I'd imagine that would be great for kids, too, just so I learned patience, pay attention to detail. You learn a lot about yourself, man. Yeah. I mean, you know, basketball, baseball was fun as a kid.

But if I had golf, I'd probably be a different person mentally if I started that that way. Like, I think that's probably a great. Another New Jersey legend, J.R. Smith is, he's taking off. Big time. With golf. Like, I watched his documentary, and it was just dope to see the change in personality, demeanor with J.R. Do you feel that you've changed post-football, just your energy, your frequency,

your personality, and transitioning into playing golf? Can you feel the difference? 100%. I think I channel things. with a much more resolve and much more calmness now that I play the game of golf. Like there's a way they say when you play golf, it, you know, it tells a lot about your character, who you are, how you play the game, right? If I'm playing with somebody and you see him in, you know, he thinks he's not being seen,

but you see him like pick the ball up and like, like, you know, that guy's not a good dude. You know what I mean? It reflects your energy. He's picked the most person. Yeah. He's lying on your scoreboard. And you get to the green, you're like, yo, what would you line right there? Like, too, you're like, ah, I saw him.

Yeah. back there. Like, so it just tells a lot about who you are and your demeanor. And I think golf has definitely taught me a ton of patience, especially when I play with my daughter, because I have to, I have to show her as well as an example of be like, I can't curse out the golf ball when I hit it.

I have to just take whatever the game has given me and try to teach her that as well. And I've seen her grow within the game. Because as she's starting to get more and more competitive, and especially around like 10 years old, 11, when she was starting to get better, but still hitting some bad shots. still trying to figure it out.

And I would see her get really angry. And I was like, yo, it's fine. Get in the car. Let's talk about it. And then we developed like this eight step rule. So you hit a bad shot. You got eight steps to kind of get mad, talk about it, flush it. And then now you got to worry about the next shot.

Because the next shot is still the next shot. Yeah. If you're angry the whole time you're walking from that bad shot to the next shot, the next shot's going to be bad too. Yeah. So you've got to flush it, reprocess it and get to that next shot. So it's definitely change my perception and change my emotions. around just life in general. Who was some of your, growing up in Jersey,

who was some of your artists that you listened to before, you know, working out and playing football? Oh, man, it was so many. I mean, obviously the Jay Zs of the world, the Nazes of the world. We had, Norty by Nature was a big one. We had a local group called FOD Fases of Death that we used to rock crazy.

Okay. We used to listen to them a bunch. But who else? I mean, my pops was always on some lost boys. Mr. Cheeks was heavy. So we listened to a little bit of everything, man It was a full array of music at the crib As an older guy now

Do you, has your music taste changed at all? I was just talking to other day about I can't listen to rap early in the morning I just can't do it I don't want to hear it When I hear it just rap, it's 8 a.m. I'm like, how are people listening to loud rap music?

And I laugh because I'm like at one point When I used to go to school That's all I had in my headphones at 7 a.m. 730 was rap. But now being oldest, like, I need 12.31 o'clock we can transition in the right. I have a 12 o'clock, you know what I'm saying? I can't listen to none of that heavy rap, rah-rah shit before 12 o'clock. I need to have my coffee.

Yeah. I need to have my little breakfast. Yeah. I have cinnamon rolls this morning. Yeah. I keep it calm. I got Pimmy play. I'm on some Pimmy heavy.

Okay. Just a nice little Pimmy playlist. Just let it rock out. Just the whole, this is Pimmy join on Spotify. Let it run. puts me in a nice calm mood. Yeah. Gets me ready for the day.

And then once I get in the whip and I'm ready to go start my day, then I turn on. Change the tempo a little bit. Then I change the tempo. I'm ready to turn up a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Was that the same approach while you were playing though? Was it or was it straight aggressive from?

No, it was definite. So I always been a like, I never loved the crazy aggressive rap. Like there was moments for it, of course. But when I was getting ready, it was like a Rick Ross. Okay. Like I needed that nice, that energetic, but the words mean something. Like the content was, the lyrics is what's going to get me going for the day.

Not the energy and the beat and like so much energy behind it. It was more like, you know, hearing Ross talk about the journey. Hearing Hove talk about the journey. Hearing certain Drake records talk about the journey. Like those things really got me focused and level-headed for the day as opposed to hearing something, you know, that was just about the beat and the bass and loud and showing. shit, that didn't really get me going. I always talk about, we laugh and talk about it.

I never enjoyed partying with football players. I don't know what it is with y'all in the clubs. I call it the helmet syndrome because, you know, people don't recognize y'all in public as much if you're not. Like, you were a star. People knew who you were as soon as you went outside. But a lot of guys in the league, they could be some of the best players at their position, but people don't know them by face because you always got this helmet on.

Yeah. So when they're in the club, it's like they, it's the need to be. be like, first of all, I'm stronger than everybody in here. Correct. The security can't do that with me. Yeah, security can't do nothing with me. I bench press 420. Like, there's nothing anybody can do.

What is it with football players and it's just aggressive nature when it's just time to just chill and talk to the lady? Well, I think it's exactly that. I think it's exactly that. I think it's a constant because think about it, right? Think about their lives, especially I think it was more so, I mean, there's some receivers. but it's more so them linemen, them linebackers. So you recognize it too.

Absolutely. Because receivers, we got a suave to us. We're chilling. We understand that if we come in and we hold ourselves a certain way, we're going to get the attention from the lady. We're going to get the attention that we're looking for regardless. You can hit the salsa in the section. Easy.

It's right. And it's locked. And I remember certain clubs in New York, they're playing it on the walk in. Oh, with the cruises here. And I'm like, oh, shit. I got intro music. This feels racist, but it's fine. I got intro music.

Every time I was like, yo, Greenhouse, oh, Big Ten, at least give them a little swabbingy and then we move on. But like these linebackers and these other linemen, like, we definitely don't know y'all. Like, they definitely don't know y'all, especially if you play for the Carolina Panthers and you in New York, they're not going to know you. Right.

So it's that constant pressure of, even as a football player, I need them to know me. I need to make a name for myself here. Boom. the name for myself. Now, when I go out, I want people to know who I am. So when I go out, it's that same level of aggression. Right. And I mean, I don't see dudes just buy like 30 grand and bottles and pour them all out on people and pour them on the ground. I'm like, dog, y'all are dumb? Like, that shit is dumb. Like, are y'all really serious? To offer the attention?

That level insecurity is crazy to me. Crazy to me. But it didn't get a lot of guys far. Did you have any rapper rival rivalries? Because you were in the league when Greenhouse was like Greenhouse. That was a time. And New York rap was still pretty relevant at that time at well. What was the athlete versus rapper club situation like? I was in GA and Greenhouse watching y'all up top. I had to feel the tension from Gen Pop.

I think I always had a pretty good rapport with rappers and especially in other athletes for sure. I think with me, I was always, I was always cool. Like, I grew up around here. Like, I knew what this energy was. I was in clubs 18, 19 years old. Like, I knew this. I knew how to move around here. Like, I think that was a big deal.

That's very important. I knew how to walk up to greenhouse and be like, yo, what's up? I'm by myself. It's just me. My man's in there already. I got two girls with me. You always got a show with women. You got two girls with you.

You're good. Oh, out the gate. Like, they're doing this off rip. So I just knew how to move. So I think that was part of it. But and then obviously, furthermore, as I became an athlete, signing the Rock Nation sports and then having that. Like, I just always knew how to move and had a good rapport with a lot of different

rappers and other athletes in the city. Who was the first rapper that you met that you kind of fanned out once you were a celebrity yourself? Oh, man. I mean, I think it was Hove. I mean, I remember being in a meeting doing the Rock Nation sports thing. And, you know, him, OG, Rich climbing in the room. and we're having a conversation about me signing them. And everybody's giving me to fluff, right?

And I was like, all right, man, I was like, I got one question, Hove. Like, why? Like, why me? Like, why have all the athletes in New York about all these other prominent guys that are out here. Like, why, why me? Aside from my contract being up right about this kid, because I ain't stupid either. And he was like, to be honest, everything that you've done with your career up until this point is what I would have done.

And I was like, oh, shit. Like Hove just told me I'm moving right out here. You know what I mean? So, and obviously he has his people out in the streets to see how I move in the streets, in the clubs. So he did his due diligence before he even made the call to bring me in. So I think that was a big moment for me to just to hear someone of his stature talk about me in that way and say that I was doing all the right things. That was a big moment. Was it a little nerve-wracking?

I wouldn't say the guinea pig, but you were one of the first athletes over there. It was kind of like testing out the waters. He was already having trouble with the Nets and it being a conflict of interest of what this was really going to be. Did that have give you any type of pushback? Like, y'all haven't even proved yourself in this space yet. Don't use my career as a way to figure it out.

No, that's a good question. Not necessarily. I think, obviously, I was moving at a point where everything Hove touches was gold. Like, I think anything he was going to get behind and put his name on, especially in the world that he loved so much in sports. And he's already, you know,

had his hand on the bronze career, had understood how to wrap his arms around players, pause, and really figure out how to guide them along. And I was like, okay, like if I assigned to them, and not just him, there was the nucleus of people, OG, who I still speak to to this day, Rich Climmon, who was there, who I still speak with. Obviously, he's gone on to do great things.

Like, it was the infrastructure of what was built over there that really led me to be like, oh, okay, I see what they're trying to build, and I want to be part of it. What was it the first meeting? And because, you know, I always, I laugh when I hear guys talk about the first time they actually sit down and talk to Jay. And one thing that I think people are surprised about is actually how much he's really into sports. Yeah. What was it like for you coming from, you know, growing up in Jersey, New York area, and Jay-Z, obviously being a big part of your growing up in the city, you're always listening to him.

What was it like to finally be sitting across from him in that moment and just feeling like, okay, I'm. I'm in a position to do business with Jay-Z. It was incredible. And those were the questions that I have from. I mean, I obviously had a hundred other questions about music and how he felt during these errors in this time and that time. But I sat there and was asking him about, okay, how did this deal come about? How did you, what was your mindset when you were trying to do, you know, when you were

creating Rockefeller? Like, what was the business side of it? Like, I'm sure there were hurdles and things you had to get through to start something like that. like what was that about what's your plan with me like what do you envision for me within this okay i signed to you as an athlete but i have other things to offer so what's in this building for me to take advantage of from a resource perspective that if i want to host something what does that look like if i want to you know create a film or if i want to link with a director i have a story coming

from where i'm from that i think can shape into film or a tv show who do i speak to in here and he was like oh we have a person in that regard or we know you love fashion you want your own line I had a line back then called Young Wales a small line that I had started. He was like, oh, we have people here that can help facilitate that. We can carry it under our umbrella and really take it to the next space.

So it was like, he's checking all these different boxes for me like, fuck on the field. That was one thing that I knew I could control if I go out there and play well and I go out there and perform. Like, all of that's going to take care of itself. But how is he going to help me on all these other pillars that I have in my life?

And I was asking him about that. And every time without hesitation, he had an answer. And a name. Like, oh, we have person, oh, there's a guy right down the hall that we just hired that can help you with that. Oh, we have, oh, and you have a person that you want to bring as your point person for this, we'll hire him too and bring them in the room. Like, all of these different things were happening. And I was just like, oh, shit.

Like, he's not just, you know, hiring me or bringing me on as someone just to put as cash. This is like, this is real. He wants to be invested in the Victor Cruz brand, you know? Yeah. And that's what kind of turned me over for sure. Where do you get your resilience from? Because, you know, looking back at your career, you know, even back to UMass, you had to, because of academically, you missed some time at school. You obviously went on, went back and got your, I think, bachelor's.

Oh, y'all going to fix your homework. Y'all are real, this is a real, like, pop. I know when you've seen each other out in the streets, but this is real, yeah, this is real shit here. I should have known, by the way, the leg was crossed that this was a real situation. This is when you pay taxes now, Vic. We pay taxes. Pardon me. Pardon me.

Okay. Okay. But your level of resilience. Going undrafted and then having a great preseason, we all remember that. Obviously, in the New York, we were all rooting for you. And then signing with the team and then playing well. You got hurt, I think, your first year, something like that. But your level of resilience.

Where did you learn that from? Is that something that was just taught in the home? Just grown up in Patterson. Obviously, we all from the hood. or you've got to have some type of resilience because we all meet obstacles. But where does Victor Cruz get that resilience from like no matter what I'm going to achieve? Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's a little bit of all those things.

I think it's a little mix of my mother being, you know, I'm first generation, Puerto Rican on my mother's side. My mother was born in Puerto Rico. She came here. My grandmother came here, built a life for her. She built a life for me. So, like, my mother was Puerto Rican to the core who didn't take no for an answer, understood that, you know, all her kids got to work hard. She worked a job an hour away, dropped us off at school every day.

She wouldn't come home until 7 p.m. every day and, like, left a list of chores for us. Like, it was a very structured at the crib. So I understood that hard work and dedication to your craft exuded good results, you know. So I understood that very early on. And then my pops, obviously, he had two other children outside of me. but he understood hard work. He was diligent on the process. He was my first football coach, my first coach, period, and anything.

Like, he brought me out and taught me all the sports that I know as a kid. So it was just that infrastructure, and I knew I couldn't let them down. There's a thing in Patterson where we've had so many athletes, especially up to when I went to college, at least. There were so many athletes that came before me that had bigger opportunities to me that didn't necessarily make it or they didn't necessarily pan out outside of 10, Thomas yeah and outside of a guy Kevin Freeman who was a very good basketball player got his education at Yukon didn't make it to the next level but that was a high level to reach if you

come from Patterson that was a big deal Stanley john Stanley jackson was a quarterback went to Ohio state never really panned out but you know so we had guys that grew up in my town and I didn't want that statistic to come back to me now I'm next now I'm looking at I'm like oh shit I'm the next one let me go be the guy that breaks the mold and and continue to work hard and I had my ups and downs, got kicked out of school twice for academic issues, still came home. Now I'm in community college, right, in Patterson. So niggas is looking at me like, yo, ain't you? Yeah.

Why are you in here? Like, are you lost? Right. And I'm like, you know, and I'm embarrassed. I'm like making up some lies and shit. Yo, they told me I could come back. It's offseason. Yeah.

Whatever. And so, but just the resiliency. And I think the second time I got kicked out of school, my dad passed away. My grandfather passed away in the same year. And I think that changed things for me Because now I look up and I'm like You I'm the man of the crib And I had nothing but women around

My girl at the time My mother, my sister My grandmother was still alive Like now I gotta be the one Not necessarily financially Where I gotta go work and bring home The bacon kind of thing But I'm still the man of the house

So there's a level of responsibility That comes with that And I knew that like yo I got to go out here and change things And right after that I got back into school Got a 3.0 GPA figured it out I mean I had taking so many credits up into that point I got like a double degree and shit like it's like I'm like two credits away from like another degree I can get my fucking master's and shit so like I just understood that I knew that the way that I was brought up that level of resiliency I had to have there was no taking no for an answer and I knew that I was gonna net out somewhere at the top if I continued that same level of resilience was was there ever a plan B for say like I was watching a Tom Brady documentary.

One hand a catch. Lefty, too. Lefty, too. That was special. I was watching this Tom Brady doc in around like the sixth round, he was at his parents' house, and he was like, damn,

I guess I'll have to sell insurance. Like, he was starting to think of like, all right, I'm probably not going to get drafted and was coming up with his plan B on the spot watching the draft. Was there ever another option if it didn't pan out? I said, I honestly, no. Like, I didn't,

at least not actively. I think I knew that I was going to get a chance. Like I knew I probably wasn't going to get drafted. If so, it would be super late, seventh round, something like that. But I knew I was going to get a chance in free agency. And I knew that I had to be really smart about where I went, about what organization I chose because I had to look at how many receivers they had. And I say all of that because I had it mapped out.

I remember being in Big Ass notebook. And that was the first year that the draft was three days. So it's like three long-ass days of, like so I'm looking at I got it written out all the all the receivers on every single team in the NFL how many they have on on the roster right now and only for me to go to the team that had 10 of them on the right and I was like oh I chose the wrong I think I chose the wrong the Giants got 10 and they young this was Mario manninghan this is Hakeem Nick this is Randy's Barden yeah Sonores mall Steve Smith like all of these guys are under four years in the league yeah yeah but I just knew

like I got to try this at home like if I do it at home I could really like I could really like I'll figure it out from here, but I got to try to do this at the crib. Were you living in Patterson that first year? In Patterson, New Jersey on East 18th Street between 10th and 11th. And it's funny because the neighborhood knows you, right? Like they know that you're a heralded guy, you know, the whole thing. So I had went and I think this is what helped me. I went to a, the Giants back then had a local pro day at Giant Stadium and the indoor facility.

So any guys in the tri-state area that were in the draft, they would bring them in and do like a little combine. Okay. And I was like, there was only like eight dudes in there. It was like five receivers, two quarterbacks and like two running backs, something like that. And they really got to see me up close and personal, like running routes, run a 40, the whole thing. And after that, I remember the receiver coach coming up to me in the locker room, he's just chopping it up with me, asking me like where I'm working out at, different things. He was like, all right, just stay focused, stay ready, da-da-da. And then he walked out. And I was like, you're not going to talk to everybody else. And he's other guys in there. And he just, and that, and that,

kind of, you know, any little thing you kind of taking with you. Yeah. And I think that helped me because after the draft, I got my phone call from the giant staff. And they, you know, I never forget. They called me. It was like, are you ready to be a giant? And I was like, absolutely. And I was like, to that, to me, I was like, I got drafted.

Like that felt like the moment for me. And I remember putting on, I got a local pro day. I got a giant's hat and like a sweatshirt. And I remember walking outside. And the whole community was outside waiting for me to come outside and give them something. And I walked outside with my Giants hat on and they all like started going crazy. And it was a dope moment.

And I ain't even tell them that I didn't get drafted that I told, to go through all the dull drums of free agency, I was like, yeah, I'm going to the Giants. That's all y'all need to know. And we took it from there. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network

on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to? do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, yeah. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS. on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing. bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures,

it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything. But at first, it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids.

They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to eating while broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything. at the Nick Dick and Poll show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Coogler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director.

Who do you think he is? I don't know. You mean it to like the president? You think Canada has a president? You think China has a president? Does La Crosette. God, I love that thing. I use it all the time.

I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at like. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. Yep. It was a good one. I like that snake. It is an actual Polish saying. Yeah.

It is an actual Polish thing. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first time. I actually thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick Dick and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When was the first time?

Because I can't, I'm trying to remember it, but the first time you did the salsa in the end zone. I can't remember what game it was. But I do remember that was everywhere. the first time you did it, it was on the news, every sports outlet had you in the end zone doing the damn. What was that? Did you plan that or was that just like impulse? So it was a little, I didn't necessarily plan that, but I remember it was week three. And it was funny because it was my second year, right? So up into that point, I was the longest tenure guy because Marry Manningham got hurt.

We had other younger guys on the roster from the receiver position, but none of them, they weren't old enough to be trusted. it just yet. They weren't, they hadn't been there long enough. I was the one that was there whole year prior. I knew this offense inside and now. Steve Smith was gone. So it was just Hakeem Nix and myself. And they kind of looked at me like, all right, we got to start you. Like this, you know, we kind of have no other option. But leading up to that week, our quarterbacks coach at the time, Mike Sullivan, he's Mexican-American all week. And it was Hispanic Heritage Month too. It was the first week of Hispanic Heritage Month. And mind you, I don't even know it's Hispanic Heritage Month. To me, it's Tuesday. And I'm

better be at practice on time and I better have my shit's laced and I better run and not sprain anything. Right. So and every day he's like, yo, you know what time it is. It's spending a heritage month. You're getting your first start. We got to hold it down for us. And I'm like, sure. I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means. I'm going to just go out there. Yeah. Like, we're going to do. Cook rice and beans out there while I'm playing. I don't know what you want me to do with that. Right. But every day, he came out to me. He was like, we're back again. You know what you got to do is Wednesday and Thursday. And I'm just like, what the fuck does he want? Like, I get it.

I'm going to go out there and be proud. I am who I am. Right, right. But I didn't understand it. Yeah. And then Sunday morning comes and I'm warming up. And he came up to me. This was the first time.

He actually prayed for me. Every pregame he'd come up and pray. And he looked at him. He was like, Hispanic Heritage Months got to represent your culture today. And I was like, all right, cool. Yeah. And first play of the game, I never forget, I shake a guy. First played a game, shout out to my OC because he knew he needed to do something to keep me in it.

So first played a game, we run a double move. the guy by Sante Samuel, he bit and I get by him and Eli over through me. Okay. But in my head, I was like, oh, I won? I could win out here. Yeah. Oh, like, oh, it's up. Yeah.

It's first of all the Samuel was one of the best corners at the time. But he knew he was aggressive. So he's double moves susceptible because he plays with so much. He want to pick everything. Yeah. His son is in league nothing. His son is, and his son is nice. And so I think it was the next drive.

And we run a play on the other side like a little switch route. And the guy, the guy blitzed off my head and I ran a switch route. And I was like, the guy blitzed, I probably should look back and thank God I did. Because the ball was already in the air and I looked back, caught the ball. And I remember running and I remember seeing Namdi Aswan because that's when they had the dream team and all of them. And I remember looking at him in his eyes and I'm looking at him and I'm like, are you about to like, do you play with that ferocious tenacity where you probably just come take my head off or are you just going to be tentative? Right.

And I'm looking at him in his eyes and he gave me like the tentative. like, what do I, and I was like, oh, you're a banked. Yeah. So I hit him with the move. They kind of collapsed. I stayed on my feet. I'm going in the end zone. And I'm at the three y'all line.

And I was like, I was like, like lethal shooter. I understand it now. I get it now. Yeah. I got in the end zone and I started dancing salsa. Because I knew like, this was the swaggiest thing I could do. Yeah. Nobody else did that.

Nobody else was even. I think Chad did it, but he didn't really do it like how Puerto Rico would do. Exactly. Exactly. So I dropped the ball. I started doing it. We in Philly. The Philly fans are screaming at me and they hate my guts.

Yeah. And it just added, it was just like that moment I understood like, oh, this is what he was talking about. Like this is what I was on the sideline crying when you did that. He was up in the boot. He was up in the boot. And he came down at halftime and he looked at me. He was like, S.

Oh, and the first Spanish, like, first time I ever heard him talk Spanish. He was like, yes, oh, I'll be going on. And I was like, thank you, coach. He showed up. in the Mexican and Puerto Rican flag. He had a sombrero. He came down with a sombrero on at the halftime. He was more excited than I was.

Yeah, absolutely. And you could only celebrate that with the Giants, not really the Jets. Yeah, exactly. The Giants are a bit more liberal with the crowd than I say with the Jets fans. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

With, I mean, the Manning energy that was going on at the time, New York media, if the Giants stink or if they're great, New York media is still crazy. Yeah. Then add in the Manning family was that a lot of pressure at that time?

Yeah, big time. I think especially because they were looking for anything. Eli didn't give them much, right? Like he was always even. He's never throwing anybody under the bus. He's never, it was always about his play. And I think for the most part, you know, he had his ups and downs. He was, you know, we had days where we was like, as receivers, we'd be like,

damn, Eli not on it today. Like, he threw three. He had one game I remember against Tampa where he threw three picks in the first half. And we like, God, damn. Like, who is this guy? This ain't the guy for practice. Like, but then the second half he threw for like 315 and had four touchdowns. And you're just like, okay, okay, maybe he is the same guy.

Yeah, yeah. So we had our ups and downs with Eli, but man, that media, that media pressure is real. Like, you'd go anywhere. I mean, I was on the heavy coach coffee used to call it the rubber chicken circuit. I was on every gala, every, you know, New York Presbyterian. I was at all of them. And, you know, the media is there. And they're asking you questions.

and you better answer them a certain way or they're going to clip you out. They're going to take that one blur. Getting the locker and now you got beef. You don't even know about it. So now I got beef. And now like every week was like, well, how do you feel about the bears coming up?

And they're just like, in my head, I'm like, I don't give a fuck about none of them. Right, right. But I got to stay super solid and just be like, you know, we respect them. We understand. They're a great team. Yeah.

But we think we got guys that can take advantage of it. You know, we do. the politically correct thing. So, but you had to walk that fine line and, you know, there's days where especially once I got a little older and I had a little bit of tenure and I won a Super Bowl and I went to a pro ball. I was like, now I could talk my shit a little bit more more. And that's when I started to get a little bit more open, but still respectful, but just be myself a little bit more in front of the media and it turned into something great. But what's the catch 22 of like, yeah, everyone loved when you dance, but if you miss a pass, there'll be a headline, like less

dancing, more practical. Big time. Did you want to even? You want to even. You know, even stop drawing the light and attention on you at certain times? No, because I think, I think, I love it. The gallows were great. Because I knew that like good or bad, like when you're bad, they hate you, but when you're good, they love you again. So I was like, I'm never going to stop because my next pass could be the best pass. Like, like, I remember all year long, I'm having great times.

You know, we had a four, three games skid where we lost some games. Now I was scoring touchdowns and still dancing, but we lost. So there were certain games where we was getting blown out and I would score and I was like, and I wouldn't do it. And I wouldn't do it. And I was like, and I'm going to be honest, I got more credit for the ones that I didn't do than the ones that I did because I would hear, I would obviously watch the games back in the commentaries be like, yo, this guy gets it.

Like this is a model guy for the Giants. He understands. That's just playing great character. This type of guy that they want at the Giants, you know? And I would get more love for not doing it sometimes given the circumstances of the game. So I always wanted to continue to do it because it was a representation of who I was and my character and being Puerto Rican and my grandmother and like the whole thing. So I never, I understood what came with it, but I never wanted to stop. I just wanted to make sure I always was smart about how I used to.

What was Eli Manning's locker room swag? Like what was Eli Manning's throwing on the beats? What is he listening to? What is Eli listening to? Eli's listening to country music. Of course. I mean, naturally. Yeah, he's on a different vibe.

But he was always cool as shit. Like he always was, he was the biggest prankster on a team. So he would come in and, did he catch me? I don't think he caught me one time, but I remember him,

so we would have in the beginning of the season in training camp with all the rookies before we made any cuts. And he would always prank the, the rookies that would come in and he would go, we'd be in our indoor facility and he grabbed those little rubber pellets

that would be, you know, on the field turf, their rubber pellets. So he would come up and he'd go to one of the young guys that was super gullible and just would do anything that Eli would tell him to do. And he'd be like, man, I got a really, really bad tooth right here.

I think I got to get my wisdoms taken out. He was like, I still got mine. He was like, do you have yours? And he'd be like, can I see? And they'd be like, pull their cheek back and he would dump like a mountain, a mountain of just rubber pellets down their mouthpaws. And they'd be like choking for like two days. And then the coach would call them in.

They'd be like, all right, second group. And they'd be like, yo, hilarious. So he had a whole bunch of like practical jokes and different things. He would turn, I mean, even just last year, our new, we just got a new GM, Joe Shane, whatever, just two years ago. And I guess they had a relationship or maybe they didn't. I don't even know. But Joe Shane, long story short, left his phone on the table.

Went to go get there in a cafeteria. Went to go get a tray of food. By the time he came back, Eli had changed all of his language settings to Chinese. And not only that, you know how you can do keywords. He changed the word and to ask. So anytime he wrote and it would be ass and he didn't know it. So he would just be texting his secretary. Ask, can you tell coach calling ass?

That was just like, yo, he didn't know how to change it. Oh, Eli, he played him. Nah, he played a different type of game. That's why I never leave anything vital around Eli because you never know when it's going to turn into a prank. The first time you played against Tom Brady and the Patriots, What was that like for you? Like being in on the field with Tom Brady and just seeing the Patriots and the organization that they are.

Did you feel like, damn, like everything that I've heard about this guy, like, it's all true. Yeah, for sure. I think, you know, I'd be lying if I didn't say like prior to the game, I'm warming up and I'm kind of peeking at his process. Like, what's he doing with his receivers over there? Like, how is he getting them ready to play? Like what's his technique like? Like where's his mind at when he's getting ready to play? Just trying to get any little tidbit, any little advantage I can that I can add to my process or whatever I was doing.

But we played them in New England for the first time. This is in the regular season. And it's cold as shit. And it's like one of them typical like November New England games. And you're just like, okay, this is it. And we went in there and we beat him. And we went down to the wire. and it was Edelman and it was the whole thing

and I just remember being like, yo, this is like, they're a top tier organization. Like Tom Brady has those boys playing on a different level, on a different scope. They just understand the game differently. And luckily, we were of that same ilk, right? I think Coach Kaufman prepared us the same way. Belichick understood that.

Belichick comes from that New York Giants cloth as well. So like, you know, very militant, very structured kind of set up. front on both organizations. And I think us being cut from that cloth helped me understand Tom Brady and how he conducted his business as well. But man, it was, you get a little, a little starstruck when you're out there playing with him because you know like, okay, that's TB over there.

Yeah. And he's going to, every time he laces him up, he's trying to win. He's trying to gain an advantage. And, you know, he's going to have those receivers and everybody over there prepared to play. So 2012, I believe it was, Super Bowl. leading up to it, did you feel like, oh shit, like we got a shot? Like we might actually go all the way this year.

What was that like in the locker room? Like, what was the energy? What was the, you know, what was some of the music you remember listening to? Like, staying and keeping yourself in a certain zone mentally. Like, this is the year where I think that something like the Super Bowl can actually, we can get there. What was that time like for you? It was a crazy time because, again, that was my second year playing, right? And we have a bunch of, I wouldn't consider myself a leader on that team just yet.

I was kind of climbing towards it, but we had Justin Tuck, obviously, Eli, O.C. Uminiura. We had O.G's, like, Rocky Bernard, who was out there, like, who had been, I don't know, 12 years in the league at that point. So I was leaning on them. Like, they were the ones that set the tone. But, man, I think once we rattled off all of those games leading into the playoffs, and then won all the, you know, beat Atlanta at home, beat Green Bay and Green Bay. Like, then the San Fran game was like, that was the biggest test. I thought in my opinion was like, okay, San Fran is going to, they're going to beat us up a little bit.

Can we withstand? Can we fight through and win this game? And that was the biggest test for us physically. And those practices that we had leading up to New England in the Super Bowl, I remember I was just, it was Rock Laugh family. Dynasty album for me the whole time. Like that was the mindset I was on. Like it was, you know, I was dialed. And it was,

and that album specifically, because it was about the team too. It was like that album felt like he was bringing everybody in to this world and now y'all got to see all of us. You know what I mean? And that's how I felt going into those games. And I'm going to be honest, at every

level that I've ever played the game of football, those practices leading up to that Super Bowl game was the most perfect practices that we've ever had to this day like there wasn't a drop pass there wasn't a missed assignment everybody knew what they was supposed to do to the point where we would come you know it'd be like the tuesday before after a practice and our coach had no notes like he literally was like guys for the first time ever i have nothing if i told y'all something i'd be like it'd be like white glove getting a little dust and i don't even want y'all to think that y'all are

doing anything wrong so we're just going to watch film on new england tonight like we're not even going to watch practice because y'all are you're going to watch new england and look at tendencies and look at dbs and look at you know i want you guys to really key in on your matchups and the guys that are that you guys are going to be seeing for the majority of the game um and really lock in on that but man i think we i think it was up into that moment i think we knew we had the confidence all throughout the playoffs but that we could practice where everything was perfect we knew like they're going to have they're going to have a hard time beating us what was the last song you listened to before you

walked on the field for the Super Bowl and then what was the first song you listened to after being a Super Bowl champion? Oh, that's a good question. I think the song I played before going out there, I think it was a long time ago. It was a minute ago. It was this 2012, right? I think it had to be, because I would always listen to Blueprint before going out there. Like Blueprint top to bottom, probably the rule is back or one of those joints that was like

get me really, really locked in. And then after the game, I was listening to something, I don't know, anything, Drake at that point. Because he was like all them, you know, he was at the height of it. We were partying crazy. Drake was obviously the biggest thing on the planet back then. And we were partying. It was all you heard in the club. So it was definitely something Drake related back then.

But man, it was a time. And I mean, we had a lot of alcohol as well. There was a lot of liquor. And the best part, the best part is like, you know, you still would. the team. So the next day, we got to fly back home and everyone's hung over. And I was like, wow, I ain't never been this hung over like in front of my receiver coach. Yeah, yeah. This is weird a little bit. So he's like, oh, you're good? I'm like, yeah, which way is the bus? Because I can't open this right eye. Then we go to the parade to get more drunk.

Then we get a break, get more drunk. At that point, it's like, fuck it. Who cares? Everybody drunk. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Being from Patterson in the era that you grew up in, what's your relationship with Jersey club music. Ooh, man, big time. I remember we used to go down to Elizabeth, New Jersey. I forget the name of the club. It was like two clubs off the highway. And those were back in the days where we used to dance.

I mean, y'all was abyss or something like that. A bit of a bit. And there was another one across the street. It was like, used to walk across a dangerous-ass highway just to get to the other side of the club. And I remember like, it's time for the percolate. Like we was, it was a thing. And I remember leaving there like, I saw.

sweated out my drawers, my pants, my shirt was off. Like, there was no, like, that's when we used to dance for real. Yon-Nus the Wala parties. Yes, 100%. So, I mean, I missed that. I mean, I remember that energy. I remember loading up, you know, somebody's mama's van to go down there and really party and have a good time and really dance our faces off.

That was a moment in time. You spoke about Greenhouse earlier. I feel like Greenhouse killed the clubs in New York. Ever since that fight, that brawl and Greenhouse. Starting whip downstairs. Yeah, right. Like the culture, the club coach in New York, it don't seem like it never really bounced.

That was the beginning of the end was whipping. 100%. It was the beginning of the end. Shout out to who, I think, Chris Brown and somebody else had a fight down the end. And Tony Parker called a crazy. Yeah. Called a crazy. Were you there that night? I was there that night.

But I left right on time. Like literally I got home and it was like, yo, it was going crazy. I was like, right now? I was like, I just left there. No way. They was like, yeah, it just went down over here. And I was like, wow. And then someone, I think, right after that,

because I think they stayed open, but someone died, someone got shot. Yeah, that really, that was the end of it. That really dead. That neighborhood was like, get this out of here. Yeah, get this out of here. It mainly was Chris and Drake that ruined. That was the high level of why it was done.

But it was so funny about that, was like hearing about it the next day, it wasn't crazy that Chris Brown and Drake fought over a woman. It was who hit Tony Parker with the bottom? Yeah, like, where was Tony Parker at? I'd never even knew Tony Parker club until that day. I was like,

ever seen Tony Parker. Him and Tim Duncan did like family barbecue. Tony Parker used to be outside. Yeah? But Tony Parker is five, eight. You know, he could kind of be low. Yeah.

He used to be outside, but he would be, he would be super low. Yeah. He caught a bag off that too. Oh, he'd like, as you should have. I would have sued everybody. Like, everybody's got to be. Absolutely.

You said you had your, um, your shirt off at the club. I'm glad, uh, the infamous yacht. I'm glad that that's what you picked up. No, listen. There was one time I was in Griffin. I think you had your shirt off. Oh, God.

I mean, If you work out as much as big, I don't, listen, you can't be mad. I'm still the football player, right? So I'm still rooting in that. Are you on that line? I have to be over-aggressive. I get it. Still there.

But I'm glad the infamous yacht picture. I'm glad that you chose to keep your shirt off. We were going great. We were doing great. The yacht picture is super legendary, super nasty. But you my God, I'm glad you had to wear with all to keep your shirt on in that moment. God.

And not look as crazy. Thank God. Who orchestrated? Who is, who's the one that say? Because I'm going to say Tray songs did. I'm going to say Tray orchestrated that. Well, it was his man. It was his man's.

His man's was like, we were just all, we was just chopping it up on the front of the boat. Mind you, we just want to play off. Let me paint the picture for you all. Okay. We just want a playoff game. Yeah, we want to play. No, we won our last game of the season to get into the playoffs. We now know that like, yo, we're good.

We're in playoffs. We're in. We're coming from Philly, which is just up the street there. we come back on the train. Oh, it's like, yo, we're going on the, I got the plane, we're going to Miami. I was like, maybe we shouldn't go. I'm just throwing it out there.

We just want to know we're excited. Yeah, but maybe we should sit this one up. Maybe we should just wait. I think I needed to say that. I was just waiting. I was like, as the OG in the group, I'm just going to say it. Yeah.

These young niggas was like, boom. They look at me like, we're out of here. You're coming with us. Yeah. Or you can go home. Like, we're going. And I was like, all right, mine just New Year's

day. Yeah. So I'm just like, you know what? Of course I want to go. Yeah. But I was like, I got to be I got to make sure that. You got a chaperon. I got to make sure that we are at least, I can bring all of them back together. So we get on the plane. We go. We have a great time. We go to live. We go to 11. Trey has the crib. He's like, yo, let's get on the boat. The son is, I'm like, all right, whatever. We go on the boat. Now we're just hanging in front of the boat. Yeah. We're hanging out and we're having a conversation. Trey's man goes, yo, let's take a And I'm like, all right. Yeah.

I'm not thinking anything of it. It's just a photo. Yeah. And, you know, his man gets the camera out. We all, you know, line up, whatever. We're all kind of in our same positions. We take the photo. And I distinctly remember taking the photo and looking around, I was like,

there isn't a female. I'll get these girls in the boat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, why didn't we just grab one? There's not a female in sight on front of that boat, bro. and I didn't think nothing of it, whatever, we get done. Which made it sicker. It made it really bad.

In my head, I was like, of course there's women on the boat. Did somebody say, nah, just the fellas for this one? Oh, just the fellas for this one. Yeah. Which is even worse on the boat. Almost like, hey, let's take a silly photo. And my dude, I'm now, I got the leather jacket. Am I just 80 degrees?

I got a leather jacket on, I think. I might have just had the black tee. I took the leather all. You had a tee on. I got a red beanie on. By the way, back then, red beanies was taking a wild hit. Yeah. soldier boy had the red be on called a wild hit me with somebody else it was a third person it was

the red beanies was taking a wild hit back then so mind you it's just a photo on the boat I'm not tripping yeah we go back to the clear port we're getting ready our plane is pulling up we knocked out now everybody hasn't slept yeah I'm kind of the one that's up all I hear is ding pink ping ping phone's going off yeah I'm like what's going on I'm like what's going crazy I open it they was like look at the giants on the boat and I'm on this Twitter I'm not I'm like, oh my God, this is just the same photo. I'm like, frr, and it's just a, and I was like, well, this can't, cool, it's a crazy photo. But I didn't think it would get the backlash that it got solely because we had a playoff game in eight days from them.

And it felt like we weren't focused and all of those things that they tried to force on us. But at the end of the day, it was a phenomenal time in Miami. I'm sure, I'm sure you had a great time. I'm sure you had a great time. Just that moment, capturing that moment was like, what are they doing? But looking back, Vic kept his shirt on, so he's safe. Can't kill Vic too much on that. That was the chaperone.

Exactly. All right, Vic, so, you know, you was one of the more popular players in the league at one point, and a lot of rappers had your name in their bars. So we're going to see if you can recite the artist that recited these bars. I'm going to try my best. I need the performance, Ma. I can't remember all the cadences, so I'm going to try. I'm reading it and I'm trying to see if I can remember the cadence.

And, this is mostly going to be a U. second. Yeah, yeah. It's too many words in here you cannot say. All right. This is, this is for the brothers right now. This is for the brothers. All right. First one, going up top, catching plays like I'm Victor Cruz, nigger. And I'm catching picks. I'm catching yours too, nigga. You ain't Drew Breeze, nigga. That's a flu flicker. All right. Now, now, I'm not, I'm not high. I got to give you a perk. You got to get this one right. Okay, wait, that tells me something there. Because I don't remember that one. Going up top, catching plays like I'm Victor. the cruise nigger and i'm catching picks i'm catching yours too nigger you oh oh that was uh was that fap no this is kodak i and you kodak that was coat oh i remember the kodak black yeah that one had a different cadence too yeah yeah listen listen i know what i did it's great you did great he's great he said it like that no he definitely didn't say it like that all right second one okay shout out the kodak second one desert eagle nickname d easy

bullets pass rome with a d easy brian i'm in new york in new york i'm a giant i'm like victor cruz with chicks to choose yeah that's fab nice that's i knew you didn't end of the end of the yeah i knew he was gonna get that one that has fab as a whole victor cruz mix tape at this yeah that can't be the only fad bar no you know fav can't wait for vick to have a good game

he got a good song coming out at that point all right third one drop went right from a honda to a box 62 they dance and they ball and they zoning like they vicked the Cruz. Ooh, I don't know that one. Drop, went right from a Honda to a box 62. They dance and they ball and then they zone

in like they vicked the cruise. That's a goody too. Who is that? I don't know that. Royce to 5'9, which is cool. Royce. So, funny story about Royce, I remember back in 2011,

when Slaughter House was at the height of it, Jarrell Ortiz hit me to go be in one of their videos during South by Southwest. Yeah. And I went out there, and the tension was weird, first of all, like, within the group there was just like,

you could tell they were... Well, we know why it was. Yeah, it was a whole thing. It was a whole thing. I remember feeling that tension. But overall, the experience was fire. Like, going out there, shooting a video with them. Yes, hammer dance.

Yes. That was one in Sapeye. Yeah, yeah, it was a crazy time. Shout to Joel. There's like some prank call I heard on YouTube that you set Joel Ortiz up to, like, get tickets to like an NBA game. And they were like, yeah,

got your number for Victor Cruz and they wanted, like, Joel to, like, fuck a pig at half court for finals tickets. YouTube that shit. I set my guy up. Did you know what the premise was going to be? I had no idea what the actual prank was going to be. But they was like, hey, we want Joel's number to, like, prank him. I was like, absolutely.

One hundred percent. Shout out to Joel. No, but you got to hear that call, like, Joe, I get court side tickets to the finals got to. Who the fuck would? No, of course. And then Joel's entire mood change. We're like, yeah, man. You just got to like, you know, fuck this male pig.

And he was like, no, man, it's got a little weird. I don't think I want to do that. I don't think I want to do that. That's hilarious. All right. Next one. I was skipping school trying to get a plug on a brick of food. I get him shipped to your living room.

One call, I bet they touch down in New York, just like Victor Cruz. I see you tried to get in your bag with his dog. He got in his bag with that one. I know that cat is. I know that cat is. I was skipping school trying to get a plug on a brick of food. I get him shipped to your life. living room one call i bet they touch down in new york just like victor cruz

damn that was another good one too another great rapper they touched down you like victor cruz wait i remember that one i'll give you he might be a bills fan oh that was um is that benny yeah that's benny i knew i was like i remember this one dirty needle that's a recent one yeah shout the benny man we talk off and on the gram and shit go back or forth you better hit this next flow I don't remember this one. Oh, I don't remember this record either, but he just has the same flow.

All right. She robbed the dick like Yehaw. She don't fuck with no cowboys. I beat it up like I'm he, man. She love fucking them G men. And after I score, I do the salsa in the, and after I score, I do the salsa in the Victor Cruz and that fandom. Yeah, but why you ain't just say pussy?

He'd been cursing all this doesn't. All right. Let me try this again. She ride the dick like Yehaw. She don't fuck with no cowboys. I beat it up like I'm he man. She loved fucking them G-Men. And after I score, I do the salsa and the Victor Cruz and that fandom dropped the antenna.

I don't know where he was taking us with the last bar. Still a great rapper. I didn't really. I got to hear this one. Vic, that sounds like he don't know this. He's like, who the fuck is that? I have no idea. That's game.

Me mugging. Oh, that was game. That's game. Okay. This one he's going to. This one's hilarious to me because it, the first bar and the second bar, I have absolutely nothing to do with that. Nothing to do with you.

Okay. Salsa dancing on this shit, Victor Cruz riding with the chopper like I ain't got shit to lose. I don't even know how those two things connect whatsoever. Salsa dancing on this shit, Victor Cruz riding with the chopper like I ain't got shit to lose. What? Never salsa dance before? You saw the app? No, never.

Never. I have no idea who that is. He was on the dynasty album. Okay. It ain't. Salsa dancing on this shit, Victor Cruz riding with the chopper like I ain't got shit to lose. That means absolutely nothing. The only person on the Dynasty album

That would say some shit like that? That would have the chop would have nothing to lose Or would probably be a beating sequel. That would have been my guest to him. That would be my guest too is Freeway. Oh, the other. The other one. They have nothing to lose.

Yeah, he also had nothing to lose. His beer was sticking out for every homicide. That was freeway on rock reunion. Holy shit. All right. Last one. Hell Mary. Tolla, it's the world.

Ain't got shit to lose. About to go long. Celebrate like I'm Vic the crew. Every time someone wants to rap about Vic, they got nothing to lose. They got nothing to lose. Nothing to lose. Nothing to lose.

I love that. I love that. They're doing nothing but winning. Hell Mary, he told it's the world. Ain't got shit to lose. About to go long, celebrate like I'm Victor Cruz.

Wait, that was, that was jeezy, I think. Jezy. Hell Mary, which is great a record. On hell Mary.

All right. So Vic know a little bit. You know a little bit. A little bit. You know a little bit. You're very humble. Because if I had this many lyrics about me,

I would know. You would know. I would have a lot. I would say, that was 2015. That was 2015. That was Royce. Imagine having game talking about fucking bitches on your arm.

Yeah, just the artist in the date. Like, yeah, that was game right there. That was when game was in the phantom and that pussy. Yo, it's crazy because as a kid, like, you dream about that. Yeah. Right? Like you, especially when you become an athlete and you start making noise and you start doing something. I distinctly remember, like, I think after like four or five good games,

I had the, like, revelation of like, oh shit. Like, somebody might, I think I've gotten there with somebody might drop my name. Yeah. Like, it could happen. Yeah. Every flex freestyle just waiting. Once I won a Super Bowl, I was like, oh, it's a matter of time. In New York, like, it's up.

Absolutely. We found just recently that Beans had name dropped Mall in a verse from like, what was it, 2000, 99 maybe? A freestyle on like a state property mixtape. Holy shit. Yeah, about Mall getting super high. He ate way too many edibles at that. I actually saw this.

I actually saw this clip. So Beans wrapped about it on a state property mixed state. Really? Yeah. What was a lie again? Did they do your nickname? because they gave you like a nickname, right? Space something.

Space cakes. Beans calls him space cakes in the verse. There's one way to get a name drop. Listen, man, I'm a legend like you, Vick. He had nothing to lose that day. I lost my appetite. I threw everything to fuck up. That was it.

All right, Vic. So me and Rory obviously don't know ball, but we want to see how much music you know. So we got some questions for you, and then you got some questions for us. Okay. To prove that we absolutely do not know ball. All right. So first question, Vic.

Yep. East Orange's naughty by nature broke onto the scene with this top 10 billboard song. This is such like a producer question. This is definitely. Broke onto the scene with a top 10 billboard song. Tretch probably broke somebody's jaw. He never broke into the scene of anything. He broke the bloods.

Yeah, exactly. Is it A, hip hop, hooray. B, everything's going to be all right. C, OPP, or D, fill me flow. It's got to be hip-hip. Pop-Haree, right? No, it does not have to be. It is OPP.

See, OPP. OPP. P. P. What's funny is I would have went to hip hop-array as well. Because hip-hop array felt like the one that was like the one. But see, this is where we go back to broke onto the scene. OPP was the single. That was the first. Is it crazy for me to say, feel me flow is the best out of these four

Nardi by nature songs? Is that too much of a high-take? Definitely the best video. I remember so many girls in that video. Oh my God. The video was legendary. While we're here, top five jersey rappers, personal. Your personal.

Top five jersey rappers? Okay. In order? Or it doesn't matter? It doesn't matter. Just five. Yeah. Okay, I got to go Joe Button.

I got to go. Not on this show, sir. Sorry. Not on the fuck. I get it. All right. So five more. Six more.

Six more. He's from Queens. I got to go. Obviously, both guys from Tretch. Yeah. Vinny, of course. as well. Who else are my Jersey guys?

Why can I think of Jersey rappers right now? You can go women as well. Oh, okay, Queen Latifah. Mm-hmm. Why am I drawing blanks out here? Ransom has been on. Oh, ransom, of course, of course. And then, okay, last but not leave.

He's looking at the corner. Oh, okay, Lauren Hill. Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, Lauren Hill for sure. I always forget about Lauren Hill being from Jersey, even though, like, they got, got the studio in Orange that I've been to numerous times. And, like, just to know that they created legendary, legendary music in that place

and that all happened mostly in Jersey is a beautiful thing. We can't show Jersey rappers and not say Red Man. I'm going to just put that out there, though. We got to say Red Man. Absolutely. I'll swap him for Joe. How about that? There you go.

We like that. There you go. Finally, some sense of the show. All right. My question for y'all. Okay, after playing four seasons with the Giants, I ended my career. after signing with this team. A, the New York Jets.

Browns. B, the New Orleans Saints. C, the Los Angeles Rams, and D. Chicago Bears. Oh, the Bears? How did you just? How did you just like? I said Browns.

I knew it was like it was a B. I don't know if it was the Browns or the Bears. It was the Bears, right? It was the Bears. Yeah, you go to Bears. I was there for a little cup of coffee. Yeah. It's funny because once I transition,

you know, the stigma or not the stigma, but something they tell you in the league often. like, oh, it ain't, you know, when you leave the Giants, it ain't the same everywhere. Or like, it ain't. And I'm like, well, I'm like, I'm going to the Bears, a heralded organization, been around for 100 years. Like, they absolutely run a high level organization there. And I got there and I was looking around, I was like, this shit is trash.

Really? Food was trash. Ownership was trash. Wow. Like, Chicago? Coaching staff was trash. I get that part, but food? I mean, I'm in the organization.

Like the cafeteria, like that. It was just deep dish pizza all the time. It was just awful. In comparison to the Giants where it was like gourmet, we got packaged lunch. I'm talking about Prince of Mukumar will come in. I mean, he's a different type of person. But he would come and just steal, not steal because it was free. But he would like take a bag and dump Gatorade and take the shit.

I would go to his crib and he got like the Giants locker room of Gatorade in his fridge. I'm like, bro, you know you get, you made $8.5 million last year. I know what your contract is. Eight and a half times that shit, bro. Don't get a deal with fucking power aid or some shit. See, that's how you keep generational wealth, man. Saving his money. He's still to the same day.

Mind you, he's retired. He'll go back to the Giants right now and take the same bag. It's really nuts. It's really crazy. All right, this next one, I feel like we can't give him options here because it's too obvious. I would just say, all right, this rapper is from Patterson. Okay.

And had three top ten hits in 2015. I feel like this is kind of an easy one. Oh, yeah. Is he missing? and I. Yes. Shout out Fetty Wop, man. That was a crazy run.

That was a crazy, crazy run. And I love, I used to see Fetty when he was a young kid and back then he was just a kid with like a little eye, he had a little eye patch on. And he would be running around 12th Ave

and we would just see him and we knew, because he came from like, his family was like a musical family. But we didn't know what his talent was. He didn't really display any of that. He was just a young kid running around Patterson. And then fast forward, I think I went to college. And then it was, I went to college.

And then I'm in the league. And then I'm in the league a couple years. And then I'm in Patterson at my man's crib. And I'm hearing four cars ride by. And I hear Parm Quint, trap. And I'm just like, I'm like, yo, what song? This is maybe like a year before it even came out. And four cars in succession.

And I'm like, yo, what song is that? He was like, yo, that's Fetty. Like, you remember Fetty from Toronto? I was like, that's Fetty? Yeah. And he's like, absolutely. And I was like, yo, that song, I don't know what that is. But it sounds different than anything I've ever heard.

Yeah. And four women just came through playing there. And I was like, that might be, we might be up to something. Yeah. That's what I think people get fucked up with Fetty, like, of course, 2015 back to back. I mean, it's three here, but it was like, what, seven records he had? Yeah. Trap Queen took about a year and a half to pop.

Like, he wasn't some overnight success. When Trap Queen hit, you go on YouTube. That shit had been up there for almost two years. Yeah, big time. I wish he just had some better just people around him while he was in the heart of it. Because although he had a couple guys that I knew that were in his corner, but I think they were all new to the success and didn't know how to, you know, facilitate it and make it last. I think they were seeing it as whatever's happening right now.

Let's hit it right now. Let's buy as much as we can. Let's take care of everybody. Not realizing that that shit runs out. Yeah, I was working with Kevin Liles when they started. started 300 and that entire process was happening. And in the office, like sometimes too much too soon can burn you out. Like, but even on the management side, like, what are you supposed to do when you have

seven hit records, not put them out? Exactly. Like everyone was kind of just in the position of like, well, this is what it is now. Exactly. Let's figure it out. But free fatty, he should be out soon, right? Yeah, I think he's coming home. Yeah.

I think his time is on what. So are you? Football question. Let me see what we got. Okay. I ranked 10th all time. Well, I didn't even know that. I rang 10th all time in New York Giants.

for receiving touchdowns. Who ranks number one? A. Amani Tumer, Plexico Burris, O'Dell Becum Jr., or D. Mark Bavarro? It got to be Bavarro. Oh, yeah, I would say Mark Pavarro. Ooh, that's, y'all just showing y'all a age.

Not really, because the answer's A. Amani Tum. Oh, shit. Really? But, yeah, Tomb sneakily has like, he has a lot of records with the Giants. Really? Because I think he had, he's the longest 10 years. Yeah, he was there for years. And every time.

I see a tomb highlight he's like tiptoe catches on the sideline he had the best footwork of of any receiver so when you asked that question i was thinking back to my tecmo bowl day okay got i used to go crazy with mark bavarro it was the same it was the same play mar bavar was the real deal tecmo bowl what um what was that first year like with odell did you guys know he was an alien out the game yeah yeah big time i think when he first came in he had a little injury i think just a little like hamstring or something and so he didn't really practice with us at first because they wanted to preserve him, make sure, you know, they kept him, they tried to get him back as healthy. But I would see him kind of out the corner of my eye

working out. And, you know, to be throwing him balls. And I was like, oh, okay, that catch was different. Or like, what is, what's going on over there? You know what I mean? So I remember the first practice he came out, he came out with us. And they wanted to test him immediately. You know, they're going to see, especially at the NFL, like, I would say in the league, practices are much harder than games. Like, in practice, you have to prove yourself each and every day you come out to practice. And I remember they put him in. It was the first play he was in and they gave him like a, I don't know, it was just like a fly route. And I hadn't seen no one be as explosive as that down the field. And he jumped up and caught it and caught it for a touchdown

over like our best corner at the time. And everybody kind of stopped and looked at each other and was like, I think we got one guy. I think we got one. Then fast forward, he had an amazing career with us. Amazing career overall, obviously. But we knew, I mean, at least I knew. I knew. in practice early on. And then from then on, like, all the one-handed stuff he would do during the, I mean, the stuff he was doing in practice was even more insane than anything that he's seen in the game. The catch against the cop with the catch.

Yeah. He had did that like four or five times in practice. Yeah, so nobody on the team was impressed. Nobody was like, oh, he just did it against the Cowan. He did it against them. He did that against Dominique Rodgers Carmony in practice. Like, it was crazy. All right.

Mall, you can definitely take this one based off the first option. The option? Okay, I got you. All right, so you caught the first touchdown pass of Super Bowl 46. That was February 5th, 2012. What song was number one on the Billboard Hot 100 that day? A, niggas in Paris. B, we found love.

C, good feeling, or D, set fire to the rain by D. Ooh, this was, this was 2012. I would have gotten this one wrong. Yeah. 2012? I don't think it was niggas in Paris because that was, That had to be 2011, I think, 2010, so that's out. See, all the process of elimination.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was definitely... Yeah, I won't tell you on my SAT school, but... I'm going to go Adele. You are correct? You are correct. 2012, I would have went Rihanna and Calvin Harris we found out. That would have been my guess.

But then again, Adele is Adele. That song was every... But Adele had a different type of wave. And I don't even really... I don't got a lot of Adel songs in the... catalog to be honest, but I'm very familiar with the vibe. Adela's like, I have this thing with artists that I don't listen to and not in my, none of my playlist. I don't listen to them on Apple Music or Spotify, but I recognize that anytime I'm

outside, I'm whether shopping, doing whatever, and I hear an artist in that song, I'm like, that has to be a hit. Because I just went to Whole Foods Target and I'm hearing the same fucking song. And so Adele for me, she's that person. Like, anytime you go out somewhere, Adele, Rihanna, you're going to hear those two artists no matter where you are. Yeah, big time. I'm a sad boy. I, 30's my shit. I listen to, I know every Adele album through and through. Are you crazy? I text Mac Wilde. So jealous when he was in that hello video. I was like, you couldn't call me? Wait, and what, like, how did you, how? Like, I don't even know a question I have, but just

how does, what part of you being a sad boy? was like Adele. Adele. Because she's a sad, she's a sad girl. When are you listening to Adele? When are you in the whip like, I'm feeling.

Absolutely. On a rainy day, I will go 30 on. Okay. Listen, now that you have a daughter, go listen to 30. Okay.

Like, you will relate to that shit. Way more than you think you would. But like he's on his Pimmy shit. Pimmy and Adele. Now, Pimmy is not the vocalist that Adel is. And the content.

Yeah. The content. The lyrical content. The energy is a little similar. The lyrics that she's talking about. Yeah. Is, you know,

this, I resonate with those a little bit differently. Okay. Now, I also, I can't say I resonate with more. I don't really listen to Adele. I don't know a lot of the lyrics and the content that she's really on. So I got to do a little bit more research before I just dismiss that, to be honest. Okay. Her bars are crazy.

No, Adele, she's definitely a beat. I believe it. I believe that. She's definitely a beat. Incredible writer. Do you have one more? I got one more for y'all. Last one. On Christmas Eve, 2011, I scored a 99-yard touchdown against the New York Jets, who was the last place. to score a 99-yard touchdown.

Is it A, Devante Adams, B, Derek Henry, C, Justin Jefferson, or D, Christian McCaffrey? This is actually a, this is actually a good one. Who was the last player to score a 99-yard touchdown? Yes, who was the last player to score a 99-yard touchdown? I don't remember. I don't remember Derek Henry. I think he went in-zone, right? I got to get an answer from both of you.

I think it was Henry. What was D? D was Christian McCaffrey. I'm going to go Christian McCaffrey. You are correct, Molly. I'm no fucking ball, man. I'm no ball. Pull up the highlight.

When did Derek Henry have a 99? It was on a kickoff. It was a kick return, right? No, no, no. It wasn't a kickoff. Why would Derek Henry has never done? Derek Harry is not. It was a run.

He's way too valuable. They just handed that man the ball. He went 99. He went 99. It was a, it's a stupid run. You got to look it up. It's a, he's shaking. Well, shit.

I don't know how he got it, but I know he got it. God. That's because more watching a little ESPN. Yeah. You know, I'm tuning a little bit. A little bit of ESPN. Yeah, man, a little bit of ESP in my life. We asked you your top five jersey rappers.

This question has to be in order, though. Okay. Top five JZ albums. Ooh, top five JZ albums. In order. Jesus, you're doing this to me. Okay, number five, I'm going to go... Okay, number five, I'm going to go dynasty album.

Okay. Number four, I'm going to go... Ooh, wee. Number four, I'm going to go... I'm going to go black album. Okay. Number three, I'm going to go, oh, this is easy now. Number three, I'm going to go American Gangster.

Number two, I'm going to go Blueprint and number one, reasonable, doubt. Wow, that's a solid list. That's a solid list. I'm trying to think, but minds will be reasonable to out, number one. Number two, I'm going hard-knock life. Okay. number three probably American gangster

number four probably volume three interesting wait blueprints nowhere in the top four that would be my fifth that's the fifth that would be fourth blueprint for me okay and then volume three five okay

yeah I would go reasonable doubt blueprint black album American gangster 444 Oh, 4-4-4-4. And volume 2 switches, depending on what day it is. It's either 4-44 volume 2 would be my number 5. The first song I play after my 12 o'clock rule is So get-off for the most every, almost almost almost every time.

Because the beat, obviously the lyrics, they just put me, it puts me in a different type of space. That would make my top 10 Jay-Z songs all the time, which is saying something like. It's one of the greatest Jay-Z songs. Show clothes, nope, J-2-8-0. Nope. Who Timberland did that, right? I think Tim Lidd is dead. That's not Primo. That's Primo.

I'm sorry. So ghetto. So Ghetto. Primo is. Primo did that. Yes. Primo. It's so ghetto and it's like that are like my two go-to.

Like when I want to wrap it. I'm so ghetto. We just want to love. Yeah. Yeah. That's Primo. Yeah, that's Primo on the scratch for sure. Definitely.

All right, Vic. Well, listen, man, this was long overdue. I'm glad we finally got a chance to sit down and kick it with you, man. Proud of everything you've accomplished. Proud of everything that you're doing. Let's stop running into each other. accident. Yeah.

Let's hang out a little bit more. I am trying to get into golf. I suck right now. I'm trash. But I was you. Yes. Yes. But I want to get more into golf.

So definitely got to get out on the course with you a little bit. And yeah, man, let's chop it up again soon, man. Absolutely. I appreciate y'all. I've been a big fan of y'all. I'm proud of what y'all are doing. Thank you, bro. And proud of the way you guys are carving your own path out here.

It's really special, special to see. I'll obviously tune into all the little clips on social. Shit is hilarious. I'm always laughing at y'all. Thank you, bro. Keep doing your thing. Keep, keep rocking. Thank you, bro.

That's Victor Cruz, Rory and all. We know a little bit of ball, I guess. A little bit. Just a little bit. On the Look Back at it podcast. 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite offers. Like Mark Lamont Hill. on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast Network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far. But I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel on our podcast The Away and we'll share with you the magic of international football,

all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Joey Dardano, and on my new podcast, hope from a hypocrite, I'll be changing lives,

helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from a Hypocrite Wednesdays

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.