Newcomers: Scorsese, with Nicole Byer and Lauren Lapkus - Batman Forever (w/ Andy Daly)

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

Lauren and Nicole enter Joel Schumacher's Batman universe with very special guest Andy Daly (Lessons in Chemistry, Eastbound & Down, Harley Quinn) covering 1995’s Batman Forever. Together, they learn all about the on-set feuds (spoiler: there were several), the creative process of designing Batman’s unique costume, and so much more.Next week's movie: Batman & Robin (1997). Follow Andy: Instagram, TwitterLike the show? Rate Newcomers 5 stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and leave a review for Nicole and Lauren to read on the pod!Follow the podcast on Letterboxd.Advertise on Newcomers via Gumball.fmSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Original. Riddle me this, riddle me that. Who's afraid of the Big Black Pat? In an uncertain world, in a chaotic time, the interest of justice wears a mask. Your entrance was good. His was better. Love is a game.

What is it about the wrong kind of man? It's the car, right? Chicks love the car. Power is a machine. Now you've devised a way to read men's minds. By the way, I've seen your mind. Freak. And revenge is a trap.

You're a genius. Riddler and Two-Face can make a pretty lethal combination. Train me, let me be your partner. Who's your tailor? If a bat wants to play, we'll play. Was that over the top? Courage now. Truth always.

Batman forever. Batman forever! Wow. What did he get at that? I like that we have to stare each other in the eyes to be like, okay. And here we go. I'm Lauren Lapkus.

I'm exhausted. I'm Nicole Byer. This season we're covering the Batman movies and this is the fifth episode of the sixth season. Okay, so we're working our way through movies within the Batman universe with the help of fellow newcomers, super fans, and sometimes even people who've contributed. So this season's going to be 13 episodes or 14 episodes?

Yeah, I thought it was 14. 14! 14 episodes culminating in a very exciting live stream! Wow. Yeah, we don't know what's going to happen. We don't know anything to go down. You've got to watch it live, babe! We're going to cover as much as we can to get an overview of the

franchise, but guess what? We're not gonna be able to get to everything. Today we'll be discussing the 1995 film Batman Forever starring Val Kilmer. Now, I just want to throw out there, his mouth, like, very Michael Keaton. Yes. Almost, just coming from watching that movie to this movie, I was like, not too far off. Not too far off. At times, or the first time he was like Val Kilmer, I was like, where's Michael? Yeah, missed Michael a little bit. A little. Missed that little Jerry girl.

We got a lot of thoughts, yep. Well, Val had good hair. It was floppy. Yeah, a full head of hair. It was like that sort of floppy 90s guy. Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Little surfer.

Yeah, surfer vibes. Like, Paul, got to the beach, not a foot crumb. Batman Forever is available with a subscription on Max and Prime Video, and you can also pay to watch it if you're obsessed. Go to Apple TV Plus, Google Play, or Vudu. You've got to give Warner Brothers money. I'm obsessed. I need to pay $3 to watch this now.

And obviously we're going to spoil it. So that's happening. So that's happening. So that's that. We are so excited for our guest today. He's an actor, writer, comedian. You've seen him on his show Review, on Eastbound and Down, Silicon Valley. So many. Ooh, credits.

The Parks and Rec. Pretty much every show you've ever thought was funny, you've seen this person. And you'll be able to see him soon in the Apple limited series, Lessons in Chemistry, which may or may not be out when this episode drops. I don't know. And most importantly to us, he is the voice of Two-Face

in the Harley Quinn animated series. That's juicy. Ooh, juicy juice. Oh, he's part of the franchise. Yeah. Wow. Welcome back, Andy Day. Oh my goodness.

Hello. Thank you for being here. I'm delighted to be here. I can't believe you're Two-Faced, a character I just got to know so well last night. We just got to know Two-Faced. I know, I can't believe it either. Can you believe? You're stepping in the shoes of Tommy Lee Jones.

I know, and this is my first time seeing this movie, seeing Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Faced. Now I'm realizing, oh, I did it all wrong. No, but you've got to make it your own. That's kind of what we're seeing here. I think that's smart. Yeah. What is your relationship to the character of Batman or DC Comics? Are you a fan? Where are you? I have an opinion about Batman that makes people very

angry. Oh, this is the place. Honestly, this is where you could share that. I think it's safe. You think I'm safe? It's a safe space. I mean, we're not going to read the comments, so yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Me neither. Yeah.

I believe that the 1966 Batman television series with Adam West is the only time that anyone has gotten the tone right for Batman on screen. Wow. I think it's the eye. Just the fact that he's got little ears on his hat. Yeah. Makes it something. It makes it so stupid. Yeah.

That you just have to goof on it. Yeah. And the Joker should have makeup over his mustache the way Cesar Romero did. We really talked about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's confusing. Stuff like that is like right down it's perfect it's the tone

it's the correct tone trying to make like a serious psychological dark and meaningful story out of a guy with infinite money who dresses up like a bat to beat up bad guys at night

it's a waste of time. I love that. That's my opinion, and boy, it does make people mad. Yeah, but I think you're still holding up the original, which I feel like is a good opinion. It's like you're saying like... Okay, no, but in the world, people don't really like that. Yeah, they don't like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think you're saying Batman's good. You just prefer it being silly. Yeah, right. Well, this one was silly. It was silly. That's true. This one was silly. Okay, everyone was in a different movie.

I know. This was the most bananas movie. Jim Carrey was in a very different movie than Val Kilmer and Nicole Kidman. And then Tommy Lee Jones was like, I don't actually want to be here. It was truly wild. I know. And Chris O'Donnell. Wow.

Another movie also, I would say. Yeah. I mean, he was like kind of like a Dawson's Creek vibe coming in. And he's like the brooding teen who's got a hard time. I want to ride this motorcycle. My family died right in front of me as I was rolling a bomb into a river. That was wild. Weren't you kind of excited, though, because Paul F. Tompkins had told us that Robin was an acrobat and that's how his origin story started?

Yes. And then when we saw the acrobats, I was like, oh, here's where we get this from. I love that he's from a family of Robins, that they all dress like that. Yeah, yeah. I did not know that. Robin is not a good name for like the sidekick. I feel like it's, but even when he like chose it,

I feel like he was kind of like, Robin. Robin. That's it. It's the R's Robin. It's who I am now. I'm a Robin. Fly around, I'm an acrobat.

Because I saved him like a Robin. Yeah, Robin. I flew in like a Robin. I'm like, so many birds you would put before that. Like an eagle. An eagle, a crow, a sparrow even. Yeah.

Eagle man. Do you remember those commercials, Allie? No. crow, a sparrow, even. Yeah. Eagle Man. Do you remember those commercials, Allie? No. Oh, it was like a local Midwest... Are you from the same place? Yeah. Oh, okay. I was like, wow, we didn't get singled out. We were from the Midwest, and there's this commercial called Eagle Man that was an insurance company,

and my brother and I recreated it and did Raptor Boy, because we had a raptor head but it was basically these two women get in a car crash and their car goes like and they're like oh no

do you have insurance on this car? No. And then they're like there's like this big like boop and they hear this sound and this eagle

huge eagle man lands on the car Yeah I've seen it. You've seen it? Yeah. And then he's like oh I've got something for you. Yes. And then he's like, I've got something for you.

Yes! And then he poops out an egg and then the egg cracks open and it's a little eagle and it has little insurance rates in its mouth. And then they go, look at those low rates. I feel like I've seen this recently. Maybe you have. In Chicago. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm sure it's still going. Now it's funny, I feel like. It's very funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure it's still going. Now it's like funny, I feel like. It's very funny. Yeah, because it was current at the time. It was like they had just made it. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, Eagle Man could have been a good sidekick.

Well, okay. We're going to jump into all this. We kind of see where we're all... Yes. Where we all stand with this movie. But let's take a quick break and we'll jump back into Batman Forever right after this. If you're wondering what a NordVPN is, I'll tell you.

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We're back. OK, Batman Forever was released June 16th, 1995, written by so many people. Lee Batchelor, Janet Scott Batchelor. Ooh, a couple. A couple. Or siblings. You're right. Or siblings. Or just a coincidence.

Or cousins. Or coincidence. They're both named Batchelor. Boy, oh boy. Akiva Goldsman, directed by Joel Schumacher. And it was produced by the spooky man from the- Tim Burton. Yes. That threw me off because then it was like, oh, it is a Tim Burton thing.

Then I was like, no, it's not. No. He seemed to have nothing to do. I'm like, yeah, nothing, nothing, nothing. Yeah. I will say watching this movie, I was like, oh, this is what this is. And it made me appreciate the Tim Burton ones more. I was like, oh, those weren't as awful as I thought they were.

Because you know what? They're really serious. Like they stick because you know what they're really serious like they they stick to a tone and they really mean it and like I really like that about this I feel like this movie is like so it kind of makes fun of itself yes but in a way where you're like so you don't care like it's

sort of like I know that's what's tricky about it's like teasing yeah it's very tricky although Batman's costume in the beginning has nipples. Did you notice that? I didn't notice. Oh, yes. Apparently that was the real innovation of this movie.

The nipples were added to the Batman costume. And then when he gets his new one that he hadn't tested yet, there was no nipples. But then we got a shot of that butt. And I was like, what is this movie? Yeah. I mean, Val Kilmer, really hot guy. I think so. Yeah. I do like that floppy hair yeah I mean Val Kilmer really hot guy I think so yeah I do like that floppy hair yeah yeah yeah really attractive man very symmetrical face yes like I really was like you could fold it right in perfect yeah yeah yeah oh god yeah have you seen his

documentary about his current life it's really interesting what's going on a lot I don't want to get into it but you should watch it it's an oddball but I also learned what an artist he has always been like I didn't I only knew him

from things like this and like he's a really interesting guy so that is a cool documentary he's another one where I'm like I know Val Kilmer I don't know what movies

he's been in I can't name one besides this Tombstone he's so good in Tombstone well that you've got to do now give us another one

what give us another Val Kilmer another Val Kilmer well The Doors you've never well that you've got to do now give us another one what? give us another Val Kilmer another Val Kilmer well The Doors you've never seen it you've never seen The Doors fascinating what's it about?

wait what about Heat? the band? yeah the band The Doors oh no I think he just walked through doors what's that? is it like sliding doors?

like that movie? The Heat Heat just Heat oh The Heat Heat just Heat The Heat is a different movie I've never seen that Wow you guys are so good

We could do a Val Kilmer newcomer season We could do a whole Top Gun Yeah Never seen it I tried to watch the new one and I was like

this is insufferable and I was like Mary Oh my god so many people told me it's their favorite Mary's like that's my favorite new movie

Really? She said you have to watch both you gotta sit on the big screen I said okay and then I made no effort I was baffled by that you have to watch both. You've got to sit on the big screen. I said, okay. And then I made no effort to. I was baffled by that. I tried to watch Top Gun Maverick 2. It was tough.

I heard this was great. Everyone was saying. It was a lot of Tom Cruise riding a motorcycle and I was like, I don't need that. Okay, I'm curious. I don't know anything about it,

but we'll see. Well, we're going to get into the plot of this movie and we want to thank the Batman fandom wiki for the assist with this script because they always know what's up. They're never confused. They're never confused.

They're always spot on. The movie opens as Batman, Val Kilmer, saves a guard from Two-Face, the alter ego of the disfigured former district attorney Harvey Dent, Tommy Lee Jones. They're locked in a safe tied to a helicopter, though Batman unlocks the safe. Dent kills the helicopter's pilot, and both Dent and Batman flee as the helicopter crashes into the Statue of Liberty. Which is absolutely wild.

Right off the bat, I was like, this is crazy. Yeah, I was like, this is insane, but I was like happy it started with some sort of action. But it's not the Statue of Liberty. It's the Statue of Gotham. It is. Wow, Batman Wiki. Wow.

Let's figure that out. And he's got you there. Also, I really loved when they showed Two-Face's origin story that somehow a criminal on the stand had acid.

His whole vibe was So it's really funny when you see that first shot of him, how they think you don't know that he's Two-Face. I can see the second face coming off the side. So that was an interesting reveal. The look of this movie is really Halloween costuming.

Yes. Very cheap. They were like, we have a budget and we got to adhere to it. Okay, so while this is going on, Edward enigma that's how you spell enigma no it's edward nigma because he's enigma oh they never they don't do that in the movie they never say but i had the subtitles on which is how i got that so i don't know that i would have ever put that together nope yeah they never say he's an enigma but he he is a question mark. So I guess that's... Wow. So this movie wanted me to look at cheap costumes and think? Yeah, exactly. You're asking a lot.

So that's played by Jim Carrey, a lowly worker at Wayne Enterprises who's literally insane, has invented an item that manipulates people's brainwaves and channels television programs into people's minds. Like, why? Making it feel like they're inside the show. Reviewing his work, Bruce Wayne rejects the invention on the crowns that such intrusive technology raises too many questions. Enigma's supervisor fires him. This drives Enigma crazy.

He tests the machine on his supervisor, kills him. The way he dies is pretty funny. And makes it look like a suicide. Oh, yeah, that was crazy. It was so wild. Yeah. Then he leaves a riddle at the scene for Bruce and resigns from his job. Can we talk about, I feel like his normal was so crazy.

Yeah. That by the time he's the Riddler, he's the same. Of course. Yeah. He went big. The only thing that changes was the hair. I know, his hair changed like eight times. I was like, why?

I really didn't understand. I know his hair was confusing. Yeah. But he went so crazy big from the beginning that it felt like the soundtrack had to like kind of justify it in a way. The soundtrack had to meet him in post-production. But then also, Ed Begley Jr., who never goes big, suddenly is because I guess he's reading the room.

He's like, I guess I'm this character. Exactly. I've never seen him do anything like that. No, it's so crazy. It is absolutely wild. Their interactions when they're alone are wild because it's just them going like, la, la, la. Like, Jim Carrey's like the craziest version of himself.

And I am a fan. I felt like, I just was like, this is too silly. Yes. I wish he had played Edward a little smaller so when he gets to be the joke yeah the riddler like it was like oh there's a change well because i feel like that's what happens to every character when they have an origin story is different from like what the character they become is so then i was like he needs to like he was being so crazy i was like there's no way this person works here there's no way everyone would hire him. Also, Bruce Wayne just accepting this man being like,

and being like, maybe contact my secretary. He'd be like, you gotta go. Are you on your lithium? You gotta get out of here. Val seemed to be struggling with how to remain stoic and Batman-like in the face of this nonsense. I want to know what everyone's thoughts were. Wasn't there a Tommy Lee Jones quote?

Yeah, he said something about his buffoonery. Yeah, he like not here for it for whatever it's in our trivia section okay great oh yeah he hated him yeah which is so funny i mean they did have scenes together where you had a lot you truly see tommy lee jones struggling there's a scene where they hug that you know something so weird this is i went googling to try and confirm this and i couldn't but I remember hearing this a long time ago. That Tommy Lee Jones hated Jim Carrey so much that one thing he wanted to do was deprive him of single shots. And so Tommy Lee Jones like re-blocked the scene so they were always in the lens together.

That's really funny. That's really funny. Now, the other thing about that, though, is that it makes your day shorter because you don't have to turn around. You know what I mean? So it could have been that. He had multiple reasons. Yes, he had multiple reasons. He was like, I don't want him to get his shine and I want to go home. Yeah, but they are truly in the lens together a lot.

Wow. The whole movie, I think. I also think his Edward Nygma character reminded me of his Andy Kaufman a little bit where he's sort of like, he's kind of like doing like a little face. He's kind of like, what's going on? I don't know. There was something about it where I was like, oh, this is like the some element of this was brought to that character I don't know no?

no no I'm just I got a thing about Jim Carrey so that's why I didn't see this movie oh you're not a fan? no oh have you seen Liar Liar? no there's a really funny plane scene he also beats himself up and that's funny too

the bathroom scene is very funny also there's a couple courtroom scenes that are very funny. There's also an elevator scene that's very funny. Have you seen Truman Show? Yeah. That one's good. Have you seen Sonic 1 and Sonic 2? No.

Best work of his career. Really? You guys have seen literally not one Val Kilmer movie, and literally every single Jim Carrey movie. Have you seen Eternal Sunshine? Yeah, that's what I have not. Oh, interesting. That's just a great movie.

You only see the bad ones. Yeah. Listen, Sonic was, I truly think it's the best work of his career. I haven't seen Sonic yet. Is it a live action movie? I'll wait for my daughter. Yeah, you don't remember?

They came out with the Sonic picture and everyone was like, and they changed it? Yeah, when he had teeth and everyone said no. I was like, so wait, we all just said no and they were like, back to the drawing board. I didn't know we had that much control. I think the response was so like, ah. Yeah.

Not like, oh, we hate this. It's bad. It was like, this is scary. Yeah, it did look wrong. Yeah, just upsetting. But it got through a lot of channels before everyone weighed in. I don't know. So meanwhile, Bruce meets psychiatrist Dr. Chase Meridian,

which is an amazing name, Nicole Kidman, who seems to be taken with him right away and invites her to a charity circus event. There, Two-Face and his henchmen storm the event in an attempt to discover Batman's secret identity. In the process, Two-Face kills a family of acrobats called the Flying Graysons. The youngest Grayson named Dick.

Just the way it happens is so funny. It's so crazy. One is rolling a bomb into a river and the other is like, we can get up. And then they fall down. And they just fall. And the only reason it happened, too, is because Dick Grayson did a major stunt where it was like, with no net. Yes. And that's why his whole family was able to fall to their deaths.

So it actually is his fault. Yeah. He had just not been a show off and let the net be. Why ever do anything without a net? Why? We don't want that. No. So that's Chris O'Donnell.

He survives and throws Two-Face's bomb into the river. Assuming responsibility for Dick, Bruce allows him to stay at Wayne Manor. Before long, Dick accidentally stumbles across the Batcave and discovers Bruce's secret identity. Which is wild. You don't lock it up secret identity. Which is wild. You don't lock it up so fast. They really do. Everyone's like, hmm, you're Batman.

So many people know. He tries to admit it at the circus. Remember, that was a big moment for Batman. Well, he waited until everyone started screaming to go, I'm Batman. I'm Batman. I'm Batman. Yeah. And he only said it once. I know.

They did a bunch. That felt like a little jokey. I don't know. Dick pleads to let Bruce train him as a partner so he can get revenge on Two-Face, but Bruce refuses, feeling he cannot drag Dick into his crime-stopping world. Is this around when we get to see how incredible Robin is at doing his laundry? I believe so. That was an incredible scene.

That was incredible. I've never seen anybody do laundry like that either man he was like people don't take care of me he doesn't need to be taken care of no yeah i guess that's how acrobats do their laundry yeah i guess so it's something he's trying to flip flip around yeah and uh i always want to call him winston alfred i don't know why i keep doing that well did we skip that part? Well, they have that little moment where he's like, I'll keep your outfit right over here.

Like that little, I don't know if that's here or if we're getting ahead of ourselves. Oh, Robin also calls him Al right up. That's how you know he's like a troubled, he's like a bad boy, he's like a rebel. And he's really handsome in a very, like of that moment way. A ethereal way.

It's the sideburns that tell you what year this is made. Yeah, the sideburns. It's those 90210 sideburns. Totally. Meanwhile, Nygma, inspired and delighted by watching Two-Face's raid at the circus, decides to become a villain himself, the Riddler. Just decides? He's like, this is for me. He heads to Two-Face's.

But also I was like, the scene with his supervisor or whatever. Didn't that do something to his brain? I felt like he was messed up and then he goes into his little, but he already had that little layer that had the Joker or the Riddler like thingy. The fortune teller thing. Yeah. And like he goes in there and he has all those like, it looks like a psycho killer's like little hidden closet space. I don't know.

So I felt, I don't know. I just thought he was a crazy person. Yeah. It just seemed like. Yeah. I don't know. So I felt, I don't know.

I just thought he was a crazy person. Yeah. It just seemed like, yeah. Did you see that when he's trying outfits on the statue of David, that it, it has no, no genitals. Wow.

Very interesting moment. I didn't clock. I didn't clock that either, but it feels like something we would have clocked. Yeah. Two very horny ladies. Yeah. We like to know.

We like to know. What's going on in the film? I was like, yeah, it just seems like something that happened when they're deciding what to rate the movie right they're like

well if we show this famous statue that millions have seen people trek to if a kid sees that oh god I guess it's PG-13 so we head to

Two Faces Lair where we also meet two of Two Faces henchwomen Sugar Drew Barrymore which was a nice surprise and Spice,

Debbie Mazur, another nice surprise. Their enigma shows Two-Face's invention, which becomes hugely popular. That confused me. It also has the side effect of allowing Enigma to access its users' brainwaves and discover all of their secrets, which is also like, why do you want that? Which enhances his own intelligence

and knowledge in the process. The two villains make a deal. If Two-Face helps him steal enough priceless goods and money to fund his project, the Riddler will use his invention, The Box, also a terrible name, to learn Batman's true identity. The two begin their rampage, robbing museums, collecting diamonds, and money. Can we talk about the part where it's back, but when Nygma first takes Ed Begley Jr.'s brain or whatever, and they let Jim Carrey do every style of that that he wanted to.

He was like, I'm taking the cortex and this, and this, and this. And then he was like, blah, blah, blah. He did every single thing that you could do, and they used them all. I'll give you a bunch of choices. We'll take them all. No. He's supposed to, by the way, I think he's supposed to get, he's supposed to absorb the intelligence and knowledge of

everybody, which would make him like a super genius, but that never seems to occur. He never gets smarter. He just gets more annoying. He gets goofier and goofier. And his hair gets weirder. But the outfits get so good. Well, yeah, it looks like he could wear it to the Beyonce concert. Yes. Truly that last one

was for Beyonce. Yeah. At a business party for his new company, Nygma Tech, So good. Well, yeah, it looks like he could wear it to the Beyonce concert. Yes. Truly that last one was for Beyonce. Yeah. At a business party for his new company, Nygma Tech, Nygma unveils his new- So how do you have time to create a new company? Are you just saying you have a new company? How much time is passing? Yes. He unveils his new brain scanning technology.

Bruce doesn't want to use it knowing it can extract people's thoughts, but sugar tricks him into stepping into the box that he thinks has been switched off. Which is so dumb. Why would you get in it even if it was switched off? Yeah, no. Bruce, come on. I didn't catch that he was tricked into doing it. I just saw him sit down in front of this thing and getting a beam shot up in the forehead.

And I was like, why are you doing that? She took the little tube out and she's like, it's off. And then he went in and she shoved it back in. And I was like, yeah, I did it. It was wild. I was like, what? Drew Barrymore has had so much fun, I feel like, in her career.

So many random things. Soon, Two-Face and Spice arrive and begin robbing the guests, hoping to lure Batman to the scene. Bruce leaves, changes, and comes back to the party, crashing in through the ceiling. When Batman falls into a trap

laid for him by the villains, Dick comes to his rescue. Still, back at the Batcave, Bruce again refuses to let Dick become his partner. Back as Batman, he heads to Chase's apartment where she reveals that though she loves Batman, she has fallen in love with someone else. He smiles.

This smile was so funny. He smiles as he turns away knowing Chase has fallen in love with him. Boy, oh boy, did I laugh. They like kiss and she's like, no, I like someone else. And then he was like. He's like, that's me too. It's me, did I laugh. They like kiss and she's like, no, I like someone else. And then he was like. He's like, that's me too.

It's me. It's me. You've kissed me twice. I'm tricking you. First she tells Bruce, like, I'm not interested in you because I have fallen in love with someone else. Batman. Who we know is Batman. Yes.

And then he's all bummed because he's like, she'll never like me, Bruce Wayne. She only likes Batman. Yeah. And then Batman goes to kiss her and she says, I'm sorry, I've fallen for someone else's brute. I know. It's crazy. She needs to get her stuff together. She really does.

I'm worried about her. She's a mental health professional. I know. She's not okay. She's too confused. Also, does every Batman have a blonde woman that he is in love with?

Oh, okay. I mean, I don't know, but I'm saying it feels that way. I think that's what it feels like. So far. We had a redhead. Oh, we did. In the cartoon.

Okay, so maybe they just like didn't color correct it and she was supposed to be blonde. Bruce tells Dick that he will retire as Batman, which is

wild, now that he has found happiness with Chase. Like, you're going to stop fighting crime because of a woman? And why are you stopping?

Don't you have a mission in life to avenge your dead parents? Which angers Dick and prompts him to run away. Bruce invites Chase

to Wayne Manor, where through a kiss, she realizes his secret identity is Batman. Yeah, she's like, it's the same lips. Same lips, same chin, same eyes, same person.

Just then, the Riddler and Two-Face break into the home. And I was like, you live in a mansion, you don't have cameras, like you don't have good security. Alfred just got clocked on the head

with the question mark cane. And this is where they hugged right before they go in, they're like, happy Halloween or something. I don't know what it is just got clocked on the head with the question mark cane and this is where they hugged right before they go in they're like happy Halloween or something I don't know what it is and then like

they hug each other and I was like it's Halloween because there was trick or treaters thinking about Tommy Lee Jones hating this

and hugging him maybe that was the day he decided to not give him singles yeah yeah yeah he's like I'll have fun here yeah so they pretend

to be trick or treaters and Alfred falls for it which is wild they destroy the bat cave kidnap Chase and leave behind-or-treaters and Alfred falls for it. They destroy the Batcave, kidnap Chase, and leave behind a fourth riddle while Bruce and Alfred are unconscious. When he wakes, Bruce solves the riddle so fast and uses all four riddles to discover

the Riddler's true identity as Nygma. He locates Nygma's lair on an island outside of Gotham. When did he have time to build this? As Batman, he debates on his mode of transportation. The Batwing or the Batboat? A voice calls for both. And Dick steps out of the shadows as Robin, revealing that Alfred helped him with his transfer.

Like, is Alfred a super seamstress? He's a mechanic. I was surprised to hear that. He can fix a motorcycle. When he can fix all those motorcycles. A mechanic, a seamstress. It's wild. This time, Batman accepts Robin as his partner,

and the two rush off to rescue Chase. Yeah. Okay, did you try to solve the riddles before they solved them? Yeah, a little. Like a little. I was going like, it has a face like this and a face like that, and then they're like clock and I was like, oh. I was insulted by that riddle.

That's a little too easy. Because that one, that one's kind of like. Oh, you thought it was easy? I did. Just that one. We've heard the face thing before, but then the other ones, I was stumped. I was impressed that they got it. And realize that the answers to all four riddles, when you put them together, mean something?

Yeah, I didn't even consider that going to be a face. Never for a minute. I would have thrown them all out and been like, someone creepy keeps writing. Someone creepy took my girlfriend and keeps writing me shit. Better clean up the Wayne Manor. But A is one, B is two, that thing? What was the solution to that? That's what it was.

It was like each one of these letters corresponds to the number that they are in the alphabet. But if you put these two together. Yeah. Upon reaching the island, Batman and Robin are both shot down and they crash. They split up when the island begins to slide into pieces. Robin locates Two-Face and kicks him over the edge of a cliff

but hesitates in killing him and instead helps him back up. Stupid. Two-Face turns on him, capturing Robin. I know that was so dumb. I was like, just kill him. You're so new at this, man. He had a gun in his face i was like it's over the way he put the gun in robin's face and then we get this time where bat we see batman successfully infiltrate the tower he sees robin and chaser being tied up in a giant glass

contraption that there was a such an easy moment for robin to be killed yes like it would have happened right then if two-face actually cared and that's the part i didn't get i was like he has a gun to his head, there's no protection on it. Just kill him. Well, maybe one part of him wanted to and the other didn't.

You know what I mean? He's got to flip a coin. Okay, you do know the inner workings of Two-Face. Oh, I forgot about that. Have you seen No Country for Old Men,

by the way? No. I have. Okay. Remember, there's a coin flip to whether you're going to kill somebody or not and Tommy Leey lee jones is in it slightly interesting interesting he was like

he was like i remember this from when i did that thing yeah the riddler tells batman that he can only save one hostage but batman stalls the riddler with a riddle of his own using the distraction to destroy the brain wave collecting device it was so easy to to break it reversing its effect on the riddler it didn't reverse him it made it sizzled it sizzled him up made him really weird looking yeah why did he look like that he looked melted he looked like his face was like bigger yeah and like it looked like old you look like jimmy neutron yeah it looked yeah he had like a big head. Huge and misshapen. It was so weird. I really was like looking at it going

like, is this an effect? What am I looking at? Or does Jim Carrey actually can he look like that? Does he look sick? Is he okay? Was he sick that day? Rubber face comedian Jim Carrey. Can he puff his forehead out? Can he actually puff out his forehead? That's crazy. And sending him into a mental breakdown in the process.

Batman rescues Robin and Chase before they fall to their deaths, only to find Two-Face holding them at gunpoint. Batman tricks Two-Face into using his coin. This is wild. But tosses a handful of silver dollars as he flips it midair, which confuses the villain.

And he's like, he has so many coins. He's like, ah, which one's mine? And then he fell trying to get them. Which Chase told him earlier. She's like, that coin is important to him.

You can defeat him. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, he falls to his death and the Riddler is sent to Arkham Asylum, and Chase is asked to consult on his case. So this is like- This is so funny. Cannibal actor situation.

The Riddler offers to reveal the identity of Batman to her, trying to convince her that he himself is Batman. Chase tells Bruce his safe- What did she was like? She was like, he's a certified weirdo or something. I know, I know. A wacko. I was like, he's a certified weirdo or something. I know, I know. He's a wacko. He's a wacko.

They repeated that line like it was so amazing. He's a wacko. Is that the clinical term? Yeah, it's such a cute flirt. So funny. They kiss before Chase departs. The film, this is the only part of the movie I genuinely liked. The film ends with Batman and Robin running towards the camera with the bat signal in the background.

It looked really cool. It looked really cool. It looked so cool. It did look cool. And it got me a little excited about the next one. Yes. But yeah, no, the ending. So like Jim Carrey's in the insane asylum and he's like, they're like, he keeps saying he knows who Batman is. And so then we're like, oh, no, he's going to say it's Bruce.

But like, who cares if he's saying that? He just knows, right? Yeah. But yeah, he goes, I know who Batman is. And he's like, I'm Batman. I am Batman. And he's like waving his like straight jacket around where I was like, you're not really locked up in that.

It was like black and white stripe. Yeah, he looked like he was in jail and not a mental institution. Yeah, it was really kooky. And she's like, he doesn't know. He thinks it's him. That's some wacko does she know at that point who Batman is

yeah cause she kissed both of them and she was like I know those lips so she's scared he's gonna say it's all safe also I was like this mental institution has no parking we just gotta be by the gate she came through a door and then he was waiting out there

it was very, very like, um, Transylvania sort of. Yes. Yeah. All right. Well, that's the movie.

I mean, it's truly. Oh, and one part I wanted to mention was when Jim Carrey, his whole, like, um, when the Riddler's like whole thing blows up,

when he throws the, the like bat thing and it explodes. And he's like, bummer. And I was like, bum and i was like bummer the stakes were low i will say the stakes were higher in this batman than any other batman so i kind of appreciated that yeah i like that it started with a little bit of action i did not like that the director wasn't like, hey guys, let's all make one movie.

But I did long for the, what's his name, Mr. Burton? Tim. Tim Burton. The Tim Burton movies. I liked when Mr. Burton made the films. Yeah, no, it's true. Because I really liked how,

I liked how this one looked, like the city looked kind of cool. It was a little brighter and less, it wasn't all black like Tim Burton style but yeah I just felt like it was all over the place. Just too silly actually. I like silliness but I just felt like it took away from

the story. Like it just was kind of distracting. Yeah. I don't know. It didn't feel like everyone agreed to the same tone. Yeah. And there was no tone meeting. Yeah. Yeah. Do you knowman uh did he kill the people who killed his parents do you know what i'm saying yeah he did i don't we i don't know one thing the joker killed his parents yeah right that was in the cartoon yeah but so that was just one version where they said the story was like he pieces together

the guy who shot his parents was actually the Joker. But I don't think that's true most of the time. I don't think that's true most of the time. I think it's just like a criminal. A couple of thirds. Tim Burton decided that Jack Nicholson's Joker is like there's that flashback where he realizes that he does kill him. But I think it does change.

That little part of the story changes. Yeah, because then that's two, though, where it's the Joker who did it. Yeah. Because in this movie, there's a major theme of revenge. Yeah. And that Batman's whole thing is about getting revenge on the thugs that killed his parents. Yeah. And now Dick Grayson is in the same position.

And Two-Face is trying to get revenge against Batman for perfectly putting a perfect line down the middle of his face. On that note, I love that Batman was in full costume in a courtroom. Yeah. That was very funny. And everyone's always just like happy to see him. Like there he is. We're not trying to guess who he is.

It's rude to try to guess. Yeah, he's just here. He's just here at court like everybody else that's his prerogative it was so funny and I was like how did Batman think he was going to stop acid from being thrown it's in the air it's about to land yeah that's one

you don't have a tool for no and I did love that he put newspaper on his face and the whole sequence was made a perfect line down the middle of his face really wild. Yeah. So this movie grossed $52.8 million

in its opening weekend beating Jurassic Park for the highest opening weekend total of all time. It was surpassed two years later by the Jurassic Park sequel. That's pretty crazy though. Yeah.

All right, well it currently holds a 39% rating on Rotten Tomatoes. I get it. Batman Forever was nominated for three Oscars? Wait, for cinematography? Sound? Okay, good sound. And sound effects editing.

One song from the movie, Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me by U2. I don't know that song. It was nominated for a Golden Globe. I don't know that song. That comes on right at the end of the movie. Right when the credits. How does it go? I don't really feel like singing it.

Okay, I won't make you. I won't make you. Can you perform it? But it's a good song. It actually is a really good song. They also had a flaming lip song that I used to like as a kid. It was very 90s feeling.

But yeah, we were talking about how Kiss from a Rose wasn't in the movie. Yeah, I was looking for it. I only know that from this. That played in the credits after the entirety of Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss was looking for it. I only know that from this. That played in the credits after the entirety of Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me. Wow.

Wow. That's crazy. Wow. I stayed till the end of the credits. I really appreciate that. I did not. The second end, I was like, bye, sleep time.

We don't have after credit scenes, right? No, yeah, exactly. Sometimes I lose the remote. Oh, I remote oh I see I know that life also Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me was nominated for worst original song by the Razzies

the worst song? I didn't think it was that terrible and it won an MTV movie award for Seal's Kiss From A Rose it's a great song I can't believe it wasn't in the movie that's a great song I didn't't believe it wasn't in the movie. That's a great song. I didn't realize they were giving awards for the songs with the movies.

I think MTV just does whatever they want. They're like, we like this song. Let's pick a couple other ones. Yeah. And then it's like Hottest Kiss. It's whatever. I feel like, yeah, Nicole Kidman and Val Kilmer

were up for Hottest Kiss. Sounds familiar to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did like their chemistry yeah yeah me too she was so horny for anybody she was so and i was like to be that pretty and be like any person a man whatever she was really not she was not discriminating about who she wanted to no um trivia here's our trivia no way Wayne, dude. So Jim Carrey has said that Tommy Lee Jones

couldn't stand him. Oh, Jim Carrey has said it. Okay, that's interesting. Supposedly telling him I cannot sanction your buffoonery. That is the funniest sentence any human's uttered about something funny.

It's funny to go up to someone and say that. I cannot sanction your buffoonery. Imagine it in Tommy Lee Jones' voice. And I feel like that would just light a fire under Jim Carrey. Yeah, it's really gotta do more.

Yeah. Joel Schumacher apparently also didn't get along with Val Kilmer, calling him childish and impossible. Whoa! According to Schumacher, Kilmer refused to talk to him for two weeks. During shooting? God, that's exhausting. Yeah. Does everyone just do it? Yeah, just make the movie.

I heard he also said that Val Kilmer put out his cigarette on a cameraman's face. What? Okay, well, I guess I'd have a hard time working with that person, too. Wait, that's absolutely unhinged. I know. That's what, yeah, Joel Schumacher somewhere else called him psychotic. He said Val Kilmer was psychotic. Putting a cigarette in someone's face, I would not describe as not psychotic.

I would never dream of that. I don't even know how you get to that point. No. I wouldn't dream of being rude, really. No. I usually am like, thank you so much for having me here. I'm so excited I got to do whatever this is. Thank you so much. You're going to throw pudding on me? Thank you.

I'd put the cigarette out in somebody's face, but I would not be rude. Yeah. I just can't find any word. I can't put it right on you. According to costume designer Jose Fernandez, Schumacher insisted on the nipples of Batman

and Robin's costumes, wanting them to be more anatomical. Fernandez says Schumacher loved the nipples so he said, let's showcase them. He wanted them sharpened like with points. This is so funny. They were also circled both

outer and inner it was all made to feature into a feature of the bat suit i didn't want to do it but he was the boss so we sharpened them circled them and it all became kind of ridiculous that's that's incredible this movie sounds like a nightmare i think it's funny how people speak openly about negative things that happened with people they worked with. I'm like, you just said it was crazy and you didn't want to do it and you did. I think it happens later, like 10 years after. What was it like working on that movie? It was insane.

Yeah, you're probably right. The Batmobile was usually driven by stunt drivers, but Chris O'Donnell insisted on driving it himself in the Joyride scene. He crashed into a curb and dented a fender. Of course he did. Yeah. He did it when he was driving it. He did a funny little Latino accent. Yeah, actually, in the subtitles it said Chicano accent.

Oh, it did. And then he said the thing. Wait, I really missed that. What did he say? Like rolling up on the fluorescent party. Wow. Will Shorts, Puzzle Master on NPR and editor of the New York Times crossword puzzle, created the Riddler's Riddles. Okay.

Okay. That's actually interesting to me because I feel like when you're writing something like that, how would you come up with a riddle that all pieces together in the end? That sounds hard if you're not someone who creates puzzles. Good for him. Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be back with a little more Batman after this. That sounds hard if you're not someone who creates puzzles. Good for him. Well, let's take a quick break, and we'll be back with a little more Batman after this. We're back. Holy Batman, Batman.

In this new segment, we'll rate Val Kilmer on a definitive newcomer's Batman scale. We'll use our phones to rank this Batman across five unique characteristics. Preparedness. How prepared is this Batman? Does he get to use his little gadgets and tools? Detective ability. Does this Batman get to be a little detective? Is he good at mystery solving?

Voice gravelliness. How gravelly is Batman's voice? Sadness. How lonely, brooding emo is this Batman? And finally, hotness. Ooh. How hot is this Batman? And then, Andy, get your phone out. We got a QR code. Oh,

shit. It's interactive, baby. It's pretty high tech. Oh my god. I was wondering what this was. I thought it was a coaster. Yeah. All right. Okay, so do your rankings and then we'll check in with what we all put. Ooh, this is my favorite image on it.

Oh. Now I can use this as a coaster? Mm-hmm. Are we all in? Yes. Okay. Okay, so we ranked this Batman a 61% on the preparedness scale. I feel like he, yeah, I feel like he wasn't exceedingly prepared.

No, I felt like he was only prepared at the end. Yeah. When it seemed like he shouldn't have had a plan because everything was like, you know,

like sporadic. Yeah. But he like magically knew how to do everything. It was like, had coins and shit. Yeah. But leading up to that,

not prepared at all. And he went into battle in an experimental suit with sonar or something like that. Yeah. I was like, no, man. But suit with sonar or something like that. Yeah. I was like. No, man. But did the sonar save the day somehow, didn't it?

I think it might have. I don't know. There was some moment where he couldn't see. Don't ask me a question. Oh, yeah. It was like his night vision happened. But then it didn't. It wasn't black.

It wasn't pitch black. No, I know. It was a little confusing. Yes. Okay. Detective ability. 77.5%. Yeah yeah he got those riddles he kind of did him with his girlfriend a little bit and yeah i feel like that was pretty good

voice gravelliness 75 it was a little gravelly a little but not super yeah yeah we've seen gravelly yeah yeah we have sadness 92.5 sad. I didn't think he was that sad. Oh, see, I think above all he was sad. I feel like he was just kind of like, he was really one note. He was kind of like, just kind of melancholy.

He was getting through it, you know? He was lonely and brooding. That's because he was like, I don't want to film this. I want to put my cigarettes out in people's faces. I know, knowing that

was going on behind the scenes is interesting. I think Bruce Wayne should move to a happier house. Yeah. It's very dour. It is. It is.

It's a weird castle. Like, get a comfy couch and some sunlight. It is. Open the curtains. Hotness and horniness, 74%. I mean,

someone gave him pretty low. Was that me? Maybe. Or was it Andy? You know, I did not particularly think he was all that horny. I didn't think he was horny.

I feel like he, I was at first thinking really hot and horny. And then I was like, well, nothing really happened sexually. They kind of like kissed. It was like smoldering kisses. It wasn't like Michael Keaton on that couch with Lady on top. Who was that lady? Michelle Pfeiffer. Jesus Christ.

I know. We've watched a lot. He's seeking companionship more than sex yeah yeah it really he was he wanted to go on a date

with her like I don't know I didn't feel like he was oozing sex appeal actually he was an attractive man he can't help it

but yeah wasn't going above and beyond so that's where we're at in this one that's it love it and this is the only one with Val Kilmer right

yeah why is that I don't know why it is because he's awful oh right nobody wanted to work with him where we're at in this one. That's it. Love it. And this is the only one with Val Kilmer, right? Yeah, why is that? I don't know why. It is the only one. Yeah, because he's awful. Oh, right. Nobody wanted to work with him again? I guess they didn't want to work with him again.

We were surprised, though, to hear that it jumps around to new people every time. That's just interesting. I'm curious. So who's next? I think it is Mr. Clooney. Is that right?

Okay, I like him. I'm excited. I do like George Clooney. I don't know if I see him as Batman I can see it Clear as day I can see it

I can see the whole thing I already have seen it I wrote the movie I can see it Yeah it's perfect Time for our segment called Five Kapows This is our listener review

segment where we talk about who loves our podcast We got five stars from Hillbilly Bajingo Wash. That's a funny name. The title was Giving Me Life. Thank you, Nicole and Lauren.

Your suffering for art is appreciated and will be rewarded in the afterlife, I'm sure. Great show. Very funny. Please never stop making newcomers.

Thank you so much. Yes, thank you. And then, okay, once again, in addition to Apple reviews of newcomers, we'll also be reading reviews from Letterboxd and then giving each film a one-sentence review ourselves and a star rating.

If you don't know, Letterboxd is a social media platform where any old person can write a review of a movie, and you can follow the show on Letterboxd at Newcomers. Are you on Letterboxd? I'm not on Letterboxd. Yeah. My daughter is. I've heard a lot about her. Oh, cool. Yeah.

This first review, so think about what your sentence might be, but this first review is from Lubchansky. There's a part where Batman shows up and a guy in the crowd starts pointing and screaming, Batman, it's Batman, and I simply must agree. See? That's all you gotta say. And we got three and a half stars from Coffee.

Joel Schumacher and Tim Burton were the only motherfuckers that understood the best way to make a Batman movie is to make everybody want to have sex with each other. We need more fetish superhero movies and nerds should be held responsible for the fact we haven't gotten any since Batman and Robin that makes any goddamn sense. Wow. Look, this person sounds like you, but about all the other ones.

Yeah. The other ones are how to make this movie. How strange. Yeah. I don't know. It's very strange. So what's your one sentence review and how many stars do you give this film? Oh, out of how many stars?

Five. Oh, interesting. Nicole, you can go first if you want. What an interesting number of stars. I can't remember what I gave Batman Returns. I think I said four. Okay. Oh, you gave it four.

I'm going to give this one four too. Maybe three and a half because I like them. I don't know. Here's the thing. You came into this being like, I have to remember that I probably won't like these and like rate it in a way. I'm trying to make it make sense. My ratings make sense with my other ratings on the movies.

Like if I give this a four, that means that if I really like something, I only have room to go up to a five. Yes. So is it relative to all other movies or relative only to all other Batman movies? That's why I get confused with my own ratings and then I kind of just throw away the system as a whole thing

because it doesn't make any sense. Okay. Looking back, I liked Batman Returns more than this. So I think, even though I spoke pretty poorly of it, I think I'm going to give this five, no, not five, sorry. Whoa.

Three and a half stars. That's still really high. Three and a half. Stick with what you believe in. I'm just saying it's high. I think my review is, good Lord, not one person was in the same movie, but it was interesting, and I like the Riddler costumes.

Okay. I'm going to give it two and a half stars. Okay. I love silly movies, but this movie was too silly. Silly in all the wrong ways. I think relative to other Batman movies, it's a four. Relative to all other movies, it's a two. Yeah.

And I would say Tommy Lee Jones is pretty good that might be my one yeah I mean I like a lot of the actors but yeah it just wasn't for me

there was just like I think if they had gotten Jim Carrey in some like takes where he wasn't at an 11 if he played it like

like a regular guy yes for the first part. Like an unassuming guy where you're just like, he just seems crushed that he doesn't want to invest or go with his research or whatever. Yeah. That would have been more interesting. And I also like he's so good at doing the over the top thing that by the time he gets to become the Riddler, then he can just have his field day. Would it have made a difference if the riddler had been

played by robin williams who i know they were trying to get oh i would have liked that oh i think i would have loved yeah i think so too yeah yeah uh everyone out there please review our podcast on apple podcasts we'll be picking one to read on the next episode also please rate us on spotify it's very. You just pick the stars and we want five. You just pick the stars and we want five. Andy, thank you for being here. Thank you. Is there anything you would like to plug? Well, patreon.com slash Andy Daly is where you can hear my podcasting efforts.

And they're so funny. Thank you. And I guess people should watch Harley Quinn, I suppose. Yeah, they can see you as two faced. It's really good. I feel bad that I said that the 1966 Batman

is the only time somebody got the tone right because there's also the show that I'm on. Yeah but technically not Batman. That's a different universe. Well not universe

but you know what I'm saying. Okay we'll be back next week with Batman and Robin. Okay. Here's the thing. I know they didn't run off set into the next movie, but that's what I feel like they're doing

and I'm excited. It kind of looked like that and I got a little excited too. I felt like it was kind of like setting up the next one. I mean, I don't know. I'm curious. That one has a lot of people we like. Alicia Silverstone. Mr. Freeze. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Yeah. And I don't know who else.

And George Clooney. I don't know. I guess we'll find out the rest. And Chris O'Donnell. And Chris O'Donnell. Chris O'Donnell is back. Oh, yeah. So he's just with a different Batman now.

That's weird. That is weird. They didn't run into the next movie because they switched out the guy. He pushed him over and was like, come on, George. That's really strange. Yeah. That must have been an interesting experience for him. And there must have been a moment where they said, well,

maybe we should take this opportunity to replace Robin as well. Yeah, I think they should have. But I wonder if he signed on to do two movies because it felt kind of like, Val Kilmer probably would have

had to sign on to do two movies. Do we know why Val Kilmer was replaced? Will it be in our trivia? I'll try to find out before the next one. Okay.

But I do wonder, I mean, that cigarette thing. Yeah, that's wild. There's like enough of a reason. And he didn't get along with Schumacher, we learned. And it's the same guy who did it. Alright, well, can't wait to watch that, I think.

And we'll see you then. Bye! Newcomers is a production of HeadGum Studios. Our producer is Ali Khan. Our executive producer is Anya Khanofskaya. The show is edited, mixed, and mastered by Faris Manji, who also composed our theme song. Follow us on Letterboxd, at Newcomers, and leave by Ferris Monchi, who also composed our theme song. Follow us on Letterboxd, at Newcomers, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. We might just read it on the

next show. Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-bye! That was a Hidgum Original.