Newcomers: Scorsese, with Nicole Byer and Lauren Lapkus - The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (w/ Gaby Paiella and Callie Beusman)

Episode Date: September 1, 2020

Lauren and Nicole are joined by writers and LOTR fanatics Gaby Paiella (GQ) and Callie Beusman (The Cut) to close out the final installment of the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings trilogy, The Return of the King.The four of them venture fearlessly into topics of conversation such as who in the Fellowship has Big Dick Energy, why Callie thinks the Director's Cut is the only way to go (it has a lot to do with a particularly goofy-looking orc), the continued dissection of how the film creates such extreme illusions of size and proportion in characters, pondering why this franchise gets such universal acclaim versus all the backlash Star Wars constantly receives, and also, "Who the f*** is the Witch King!?"Like the show? Rate Newcomers 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts and let us know what LOTR media you'd like the series to cover.Sources for this episode:"Which Lord of the Rings Characters Have Big Dick Energy?" articleGaby's article on Vanessa Hudgens' Lord of the Rings themed birthday partyTrivia from IMDBTrivia from MovieMistakes.comTrivia from Mental FlossAdvertise on Newcomers via Gumball.fmSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Original. The eye of the enemy is moving. The end has come. Every day, Frodo moves closer to Mordor. How do we know Frodo is alive? What does your heart tell you? Come, Master. Come to me, Yoda.

This is your test. Every path you have trod through wilderness, through war... ...has led to this road. The enemy will never let Aragorn come to the throne of Gondor. It is time. Give him the sword of the king. Become who you were born to be. The precious sleepy eyes. He means to murder us, Abba! You were born to be Sending him away comes me or the set

Pieces of You see You come to it at last I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of man fails. When we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship. But it is not this day. Whatever happens, stay with me. This day day we fight

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you We shall seek the Shire again You gave away your life's grace I cannot protect you anymore We cannot achieve victory through strength of arms Not for ourselves But we can give Frodo a chance So that was the cool part where she stabbed the witch king in the face yes that i loved when he was like no man could kill me and then the hobbit was like but i can and then she was like and i'm a woman bitch yeah it's another episode of Newcomers. Oh, my God.

of newcomers oh my god we're watching lord of the rings and we just finished the longest movie maybe in the history of movies the return of the king and guess what i didn't know the king left i look like gandalf now i have long white hair and a long beard and i'm very old now because the movie took me through my entire life the movie is 17 hours and 15 minutes as we all know so long so Lauren you didn't want you didn't watch this in one sitting how long did it take you to get through this it took me over the course of a a solid afternoon into night situation I started at one and I was finished around seven. I had to do a podcast in the middle, which was really good because it kind of broke it up. But I came back. I did the same. I watched an hour and a half of it. Then I watched the Mapleworth murders on Quibi and then I continued watching it and then went to sleep and then finished it. It was.

It's very long. And, you know, the thing is, I think what we're struggling with as people who went through all of the Star Wars catalog within a matter of months just recently and had very little turnaround is that if these things were shorter, we'd probably be more excited. But we do have to invest a lot of time

every week. And, you know, that's the work we do for you listeners out there. This is a labor of love for you people. So we're going to be watching The Hobbit movies. We're going to revisit fan fiction. We're going to do some spinoffs. We're going to talk about the books. And if you would like to watch Lord of the Rings Return of the King, guess what? It's available to rent on Amazon Prime for $3.99. It's also on HBO Max for not free because you pay for the subscription. So. Yes.

And so we've been starting with the, we've started the series with the Lord of the Rings film trilogy. And today we're discussing the third and final movie in Peter Jackson's trilogy. And, you know, I think we found things to enjoy in Twin Towers upon discussing it with Mary Holland. Yes. You know, that's one thing we always love about this show, I think, is that when you talk to people who are really passionate about it,

it makes you appreciate things that you didn't see while you were scrolling on your phone and stuff like that. Yeah. So it's been really nice talking to people who are passionate. And so if you want to watch the movies before um listening we are we so we did the fellowship of the ring we did two towers and return of the king and so you want to watch those first if you care about spoilers out there in the world but if you don't

we will explain all of the movies to you on every episode and i think that's kind of a great loophole for anyone out there who's always been curious curious but has no desire to watch we did that for you and then we brought people here to like literally mary step by step explain this movie to us beat by beat and we were like oh okay oh that's who that was um but we're very excited for our guests today we have uh gabby paella and kellyuseman. And Gabby is a culture writer for GQ. And her work has appeared in Rolling Stone, The Guardian, The Daily Beast, Lucky Peach, and The Hairpin. And Callie is a writer and news editor currently with New York magazine's The Cut. And her work has been featured in The New York Times and Vice with a focus on culture, sex, politics,

reproductive justice, and the occult, which are all things we're interested in so welcome Gabby and Callie thank you for being here thank you for having us and we understand that you guys are both huge fans of Lord of the Rings so we're excited to talk to you because as we said it's been like this has been the way that we get to learn is by talking to people who are super fans into liking it. I was, Gabby and I worked together at The Cut and when I joined as an editor, she was like, oh, you're going to let me finally write

Lord of the Rings articles. And yeah, together we would just constantly put out like a steady stream of Lord of the Rings content that the other editors didn't know about. And how did you guys end up as Lord of the Rings fans and like find each other

and what's your backstory yeah tell us how you got into it so my obsession started in seventh grade which was historically not a great time um in my life and i went to go see the movie it was like i think my dad was like neither of my parents knew anything about it, but they were like, whatever, this is the holiday movie. We'll take the whole family. And then, you know, in Fellowship of the Ring, that scene where the hobbits all get to the inn and you meet Aragorn for the first time

and he's like under the hood and you see his little like cleft chin. We're kind of like, yes, we remember. And then a part of us is also like no I was like no recollection I am so sorry I know it's weird because we did just watch them but 20 hours ago

in the movie yeah and that happened and I remember just being like oh my god I'm having my sexual awakening and I ran home and like immediately googled the actor and like realized he was like older than my mom. And I was like, oh, that's kind of weird, but I'm not going to like let this get in the way. And then I like went and read all the books and ended up watching all the movies and just got into it too deep.

And then I realized that Callie was obsessed with it when we were following each other on Twitter. And I zoomed in on her little like Twitter avatar. And it's like a one inch by one inch circle and I saw that she was wearing the necklace that Arwen has and I was like oh my god yes yeah that's how we identify each other I was similar I saw it like in theaters I remember and but I was the opposite my sexual awakening was over Legolas like I ran home and I was like oh okay this is the man that I'm deeply in love with and then i saw photos of him with no wig and i was like i hate him what wait i had like i that's orlando bloom right oh yeah no i i despised him with no wig i was like no interest like i would

just like and then but the wig i loved um the wig does a lot it's interesting I will say this He's barely in the movie He spoke in the third one I was like he talks Well who needs it He just does tricks I will say as I've matured into a woman I do find him boring now But as a child

I feel like it's the sort of thing That every boy band star has Where he's just just perfect at everything, has no personality, is completely asexual and is so handsome. Like I feel like for like a certain breed of like 12 year old, like that's a perfect man. Yes. I didn't really get when everyone was like when like women my age were obsessed with One Direction, I was kind of confused.

And then I saw a video of them all singing Teenage Dirtbag and I was like, I'm so into this. Yep. I agree with you. I showed Mike that and he was like, what the fuck? My husband did not understand. I was like, this is the hottest thing I've ever seen. The song is extremely good. And the dancing and singing is also amazing. Like, I don't know. The vibe is there. It's weird what you get i mean i feel like the the the sexual awakening element of lord of the rings is an interesting one because nicole and i both like we're not really we are realizing that fantasy just might not be our genre although we are we are going so deep and maybe by the end we'll figure out that we like it but um it's i think like mary had a similar thing our guest in our previous episode that, she finds it so romantic and there's something about that that is so, it makes

it make sense. I think why, why, why you could get really, um, into these movies just with that angle alone, like the like fantasy section. There was a big kiss in this one that I was like almost taken aback by. Wait, at the end? Yeah. I, okay. there was a big kiss in this one that i was like almost taken aback by wait at the end yeah i okay so first she's holding this flag and then she's like oh hello i was like get real this is not a reveal we could have done without that i wanted sam and mr frodo to kiss i was like i feel the

sexual tension between you but then he goes back to hobbitville and marries someone taller than him did you know i almost wondered like okay i i feel like i was i was curious if the books have him marry someone if that was like something that is like true to like the entire story or if there was like feedback about people being like they're having um sexual tension between them get him a woman to marry do you know what i mean was that like canon that he marries someone and has a kid yeah he gets married in the book okay that's cute um callie you once tweeted that the prospect of playing the theatrical version of one of the films instead of the extended edition made you sick to your stomach now that is that happened to me I was I'm I'm visiting my friend and I don't have the extended edition with me so I had to watch the theatrical which was a measly three hours

and 48 minutes it was it was nauseating how long is the director's cut over four hours but I was actually like because I only ever watched that there's like a lot of scenes that I was looking for and I was like how could they have cut that like oh that's, there's a lot of scenes that I was looking for. And I was like, how could they have cut that? Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Well, you guys never saw the second film, especially. There's this very, very tragic romance between Eowyn and Aragorn that's really played up in the extended edition that gets cut out. And that's the only scene that I'm like, they should have cut that out.

Oh. edition that gets cut out and that's the only scene that i'm like they should have cut that out oh and and so what was something that was missing from this version that you're like how do they not have that gabby you will know what i'm talking about there's right before they go to like the gates of mordor there's this one really weird orc with like a big frightening smile who comes out and just makes this weird face and he's so iconic and i kept being like where's the orc with the fucked up smile he never showed up and I was like no Peter Jackson how could you that didn't make it to theaters so wait you were just you just wanted to see this man with a fucked up smile yeah he's iconic yeah we should know what I'm talking about I actually don't

I'll send you a photo you'll know Okay yes please So what does the fuck It's just like a person That's it It's like 45 seconds I'm like why did you have to cut that It was a great 45 seconds Fair okay Alright

I mean it's so wild that you were Upset about missing out On this random scene and i feel like the movie was filled with scenes and i was like i don't need this um i can't relate but i mean i get it okay gabby you wrote a piece on the cut about how you agree with vanessa hudgens's hud's, I can't read normal words, decision to throw herself a Lord of the Rings themed birthday party.

She chose to dress as Arwen. Who would you dress as? And what kind of decorations, activities, and attire would be critical for a successful Middle Earth style birthday bash? Oh yeah, I would probably dress as Eowyn because I feel like I have also been in like ill-advised emotional affairs with unavailable men so i can relate to that um account the cut

scene that callie was talking about actually involves her making a bunch of fish stew for him that he rejects because it's like she's like a bad cook that's part of the her whole charm that's kind of cute though i almost feel like that's like a bad cook that's part of her whole charm that's kind of cute though i almost feel like that's the kind of thing i want more of first of all i want more of the female characters in general yes but fish well i mean honestly maybe i would have liked it because one of my favorite scenes was that tater scene where we love that taters and that made me laugh very hard do you feel like throwing a lord of the Rings themed birthday is like really aggressive because then everyone has to like know what that is.

I feel like it's I think it's like probably so mainstream and you and I and Nicole are like the two people who would be like, what do I wear to this? But everyone else would be like, obviously, I know what to do. No idea what to wear, like an oversized brown dress and like cut it up so I look like a hobbit you know what's kind of great about like really rich celebrities though is that they probably all had amazing costumes like I bet there were people with like full-on hobbit feet like that someone spent four hours applying to their feet I mean probably I honestly what a great way to get me to not come to your party like just I have homework to do now

and then I have to then be social as I'm like with prosthetic ears on me for several years in a row my best friend and I would dress up as sexy Gandalf and sexy Saruman for Halloween every year we're like dresses and wigs and beards and carry stuff that works that works someone wrote a misconnection about one of us we don't know which one that was it was like you and your friend were both dressed as gandalf and i like the one gandalf and we didn't know which gandalf they were referring to that was like my dream when i was in college i would just scour missed connections being like did anyone see me on the train it's the only time it has ever happened to me and it was potentially not me and I was wearing a beard did anyone see me on the train you're like type in like brown line and like everyone's like no

no one was interested um rough very rough but that's i feel like getting getting if someone was attracted to you in that costume it's like perfect then because they know your whole deal they're like down well they misspelled gandalf which i was like it's a deal breaker for sure i mean my misconnection would be like you were loud you were screaming i think i'm in love my ears hurt and I want more. That's so funny, though, that a turnoff for you is that they misspelled Gandalf. I think Gandalf is hot in this movie. Yeah, that's Nicole's crush.

There's something wrong with me. But like when he was fighting, I was like, man, he's old and getting it. Gabby, who's like your crush? If you had to pick of the weirder of the characters, like I feel like it has to be someone who's like not obviously hot. I mean, you did have your first choice was pretty good, I think. But is there anyone else that you're like, I'm weirdly attracted to like Gollum? I know.

I think Gandalf is a good pick rewatching it now. I was like, he really comes into his own in this last movie when he's like over everyone's shit. He's just waving his staff around. He's like super impatient. So I appreciated that. I agree. He's, he is a strangely hot old man.

Um, and I feel like he'd be like really fun to hang out with. I also think he'd be pretty fun to hang out with and adventurous sexually. Oh, this is actually perfect because the two of you collaborated on an article uh called which lord of the rings characters have big dick energy and that's i mean i think if there's an argument for bde it's gandalf but no of course it's gandalf i like when i started they were like we hired you to do politics

and i was like double byline who has has big dick energy? Obviously Gandalf. And I feel like it only increased when he came back from the dead. Oh, yeah. He got way hotter. Yeah. Yes. Well, he got his wig together. Yeah.

He was really cleaned up. Yeah. I don't know who we picked, but my opinions might have changed since. I think it's like really only Aragorn. See. Boromir. What do you think, Gabi? Oh, aragorn c or what do you think gabby oh aragorn and boromir i think only and yadav i think those are the only three okay yeah so the official list was aragorn frodo got a nope wow i i guess i guess i don't stand by that yeah i guess you're right i mean he's like confident but like in a really calm way.

Yeah. Yeah. But also, they said he has TD. Every time they close, like there was a close up on Frodo. I couldn't stop laughing when he got stung by the fucking spider and frothed at the mouth. I couldn't stop laughing. And then at the end, when he just gazes at his little hobbit friends, was like we didn't need this and again i couldn't stop laughing so yeah i don't think he's got big dick energy yeah when he got attacked by that spider it was like he was just like the spider's bitch like

instantly and yes yeah he didn't feel confident there yeah um they said sam has tde tiny dick energy um perhaps the least dick energy of any person, fictional or real, which is really funny. Fair. That was harsh. It is harsh, but you know, this is fun. It's fun to be harsh and just go for it. Mary, that's a hobbit. That's a no.

Pippin, yes. Okay, there's a song called Pippin Song. Now, I don't feel familiar with this. Is that in one of the movies? It happened in this film. Yeah, Lauren, you didn't clock the music video that happened midway through. There was slow motion and a little man

just like singing with his hair in the wind. Honestly, I don't know what you're talking about and I did watch the movie. I don't even think I was looking down that much. This is crazy. i'll have to look that up later that's fucking hilarious that i missed that okay um gandalf the gray no gandalf the white yes okay so yeah it goes on but i bilbo yes bde i agree with you um yes although when he's old at the end it was kind of tragic and then he still wanted the ring and i was like oh my god this guy these people love this ring they're horny for it everybody wants it he's like i just want to

hold it one last it's like sir you're about to die like you don't need to hold this ring again is there like anything like that in real life that people are that gross about i don't even know i'm trying to think of something that like i on my deathbed would be honestly when i get a partner probably his dick i'll be like let me just hold it one last time i waited very long for this you still want to do that on your deathbed you have found the perfect person i found the perfect person if they were like well we are in a hospital but she did ask politely oh my god okay so how do you gabby and callie how do you guys feel like that return of the king compares to the other lord of the rings movies is it like how would you rank those three

i think i'm two one three oh i am always just trying to come up with them and then tying them all. Oh. I feel like I appreciated the parts where they're in, what is it called? The Hobbit area. Riverdale? The Shire. Oh, the Shire. I like those parts the best

because I just think they're really visually pleasing. And so much of the movies take place in this sort of dark, like underworld vibe with like the disgusting orcs and everything. And I like the parts where they're kind of like happy and all the little hobbit people are running around and living their beautiful little lives. I do want to talk about some of the size.

I'm kind of obsessed with the perspective in these movies. And I looked it up and Gandalf is five, six. What? So the hobbits are like two, two feet tall. Yes. The hobbits are like two or three feet.

That's sick. Well, also the actors, it's really crazy. I, I constantly Googling their height. Ian McKellen is only like five 11, but the dwarf is 6'3".

Right. So they picked the world's most, the only tall actor in the world. They were like, we found him and he needs to be a dwarf. Like there's so many other men who could do it. But like this is a gruff exterior. And they make Gandalf, the actor,

five inches shorter to play a very giant wizard, as far as I can tell. So it's honestly one of the most mind numbing elements of this series, I think is that I can't figure out how any of it was made. I don't understand. And sometimes you see them and they almost look at they're all the same size and then like they'll cut away.

And then someone's like peering up from like the floor and you're like, okay, so you're really small. Also, I feel like the hobbits get smaller each movie. Like they were so tiny in this last one they were yes frodo gets smaller and smaller and smaller yes the part where gandalf's on a horse with um frodo i guess he like looked really tiny and then like it's and

then but then you see them up close and you're like his head's actually really close to the other guy's head like they're not it's a it's a challenge i think lauren how do you rank the movies did you say your rank no i think i would put i think i agree with gabby that i would go two one three at this point because two had i almost want to say one was my favorite because i was the most interested because i didn't know what was going on at all but two I think had more going on and so it was like kind of more um exciting but once you hear Pippin's song I know I have to yeah wait till you hear that it was truly insane Lauren in the middle of this movie they said we need a music video he's like in a window and it's just, it's wild. I think for me, it's one because I loved Gandalf spinning on his head and going to space.

I don't think I've laughed harder. Oh, I saw this part. He had a great voice. I just, I just looked up the picture of what he looks like when he's singing. And I know what you're talking about. And I actually commented on how his voice was like really beautiful. And I love that you promptly forgot about it. Yeah.

This is how I live my life. I have to like, just do that to get through the day oh my god so wait one yeah one three because the wildest things happened in three I mean Gollum bit off a fucking finger

he bit somebody's finger off that was wild there was that big ass bug he got cocooned the spider was crazy that was so nuts um and then i hated two i thought two was horrific i didn't understand anything that was happening i it was bad for me nicole you have to understand i also didn't understand what was happening like i'm talking about like i'm ranking this like solely on like a vibe like i don't even know what i'm talking about do you know what i mean so i I have also said I didn't understand what was happening in two I didn't understand what was happening in

any of them last night I apparently asked so many questions in a row that John screamed he was like you have to stop you're you're talking over all the dialogue and I was like we should like switch houses because Mike was like if you have any questions you should ask me and I was like I won't we should they were so mad at me. Oh my God. Should we take a break? Yes. Let's take a break and we'll be right back with more of this magic. If you're wondering what a Nord VPN is, I'll tell you. VPN stands for Virtual Private Network, a service that protects your internet connection and online privacy. A VPN creates an encrypted tunnel for your data, protect your online identity by hiding your IP address, and allow you to use public Wi-Fi

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It's risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee. Link is in the episode description. And we're back to the magic um so we should mention that this was released in 2003 i don't know if we said that um and this was the culmination of 10 years of work and the conclusion to the trilogy so this is where everything wraps up and we get the final confrontation between the forces of good and evil fighting for the control for control of the future of middle earth. And actually there was a lot about this that I thought was really engaging like the,

with them trying to, so how the Frodo and Sam reach mortar in their quest to destroy the ring. And that's like the big drama of it all. Like, will they, won't they make it at the endings that we, Nicole and I, we noticed that there are like 45

endings to this movie and do you guys feel like that is a frustration to you or do you kind of like how where do you stand on that controversy of just having like why does it end 12 times i was watching with my sister today and after the big battle ended she was like oh my god i just realized there's another battle thank god she was like i felt like it was winding down but now i remember there's an entire hour left and we were like so pleased we're like oh thank god after that battle i pressed pause and was like how is there still an hour and 45 minutes left of this movie that was me every time i paused i went there's still two hours like i was like i thought I just watched this for two hours I don't understand

yeah I remember seeing it in theaters and that like whole scene where Frodo is in the bed and they all like come up and run to him and he was just like dragging on and on and I remember getting this feeling of like oh this is an embarrassing thing to be into like it like dawned on me for the first time

no this is something I want to mention because I feel like there were a lot of Wizard of Oz parallels. I was just about to say it was very Wizard of Oz-y. Like they have the Emerald Castle or whatever. And then there's the whole bed thing of like all his friends returning after this thing. And they're all like, you're well again, as if he was just dreaming. We should walk through the plot a bit and we can kind of figure out any questions that we have, which are probably many. And I'm already scared of every name that I see before me. We should walk through the plot a bit and we can kind of figure out any questions that we have, which are probably many.

And I'm already scared of every name that I see before me. Oh, Smeagol is spelled differently than I expected it to be. Same. I didn't think there would be an accent mark over the E. So Smeagol, it starts with Andy Serkis as more of a hobbit and he's not fully transformed. Smeaggel and his hobbit friend discover the ring in a river and raptured by the ring smiegel kills his friend and he retreats into the misty mountains as the ring twists his body and mind until he becomes the creature golem which was i thought incredibly fucked up that whole it was so fucked up yeah i didn't like it i was like i cannot believe smiegel

is like killing his friend over a piece of jewelry you know and then he's gonna go live in the woods with his precious ring the fuck like did he need therapy before like what is going aren't hobbits happy i thought you yeah the ring really controls your mind but i thought the way that they had him change to become golem oh it was like a reverse evolution sort of thing. And it was, I mean, it was really good CGI for the time. I was very impressed by that, but it was honestly just disgusting to watch. Also, Smeagol's friend's name is Deagle,

which they don't mention in the movie for obvious reasons. They don't even mention it? That's crazy. Deagle and Smeagol? Because I always wonder where he went, you know? It seems like they're supposed to be together. Yeah. It's like that was destined to end badly. That scene did give us the beautiful, iconic line of, it's my birthday and I wants it,

which is a vibe that anyone can relate to. Has anyone, like, maybe that's what vanessa hudgens had written on the wall at her party i feel like that's any birthday party at a stand-up show it's my birthday and me wants it shut the fuck up um so back to the war of the Ring. Gandalf leads Aragorn, Legodus, Jimmy, Gimli, and Theodore to Inzagar, where they reunite with Merry and Pippin. Gandalf retrieves the defeated Semiron Plantar, this bowling ball thing. Pippin looks at the bowling ball and is seen by Sauron. That part was crazy. It was so wild. And that needed to be explained to me. I was like, what the

fuck is happening? So from Pippin's description of his visions, Gandalf realizes Sauron will attack Gandor's capital, the Mykonos Islands. He rides there to warn Gandor. Gandor's

steward, Denthor, Nicole. he rides uh there to warn gandor gandor steward death den den den for nicole it's like i'm watching it yeah i know it doesn't really bring it to life honestly though the ball thing was kind of i liked that scene i liked how um gandalf was sleeping with it in a bag and then they tried to steal it. Does it kind of act like the ring in that it draws people to it? That thing? Palantir?

It's like how they FaceTime, right? Oh, okay. So he just was curious about it though? The wizards would FaceTime with them and that was like how Saruman would talk to Sauron. They'd like check in with each other and then when he died it fell into the into the water and then yeah he was he basically just called sauron and was like hey what's up oh i like it when did sauron die in the last one

yeah i didn't know he was dead and i was at the end of the movie i was like where was the other man with the laid wig and john was like he's dead and i was like okay no more questions i i don't know when that happened oh yeah it starts to blend a bit you know yeah um so gollum leads frodo and sam to minus morgul where they watch the witch king of Angmar, leader of the Nazgul, lead an army of orcs towards Gondor. The hobbits begin climbing cliff stairs to a secret tunnel into Mordor, unaware that Gollum plans to kill them and take the ring. And the Witch King and his forces attack and force Faramir and his team to retreat to Minas Tirith. Um, God. You know, when it's a paragraph like this it seems simple and yet even reading that i feel confused same same who's the witch king wait who the fuck is the witch king

that's a question i have as well yeah do you want a ticket okay so remember the first movie truly the very beginning of the first movie when they make all when sauron makes all the rings and nine rings are made for the men yes yes so all of these all of those people fall to the power of the rings and they become the ringwraiths so the witch king is the leader of them they all used to be men and now they're like servants of sauron and they ride around in those like big terrible dinosaur things is this one of the ones that um has like a black hole for a face with like this sort of okay yeah okay stab frodo yeah okay yes great okay so gollum leads frodo to believe sam is trying to steal the ring and frames him for stealing the last of the food.

Frodo tells Sam to go home. Gollum leads Frodo into the lair of the giant spider, Tony Shalhoub. Frodo narrowly, how do you say that, Shalhoub? Tony Shalhoub. She loves it. It's Tony Shalhoub. Frodo narrowly escapes. Gollum attacks Frodo.

Gollum falls down a chasm. Frodo continues on, but Tony Shalhoub discovers, paralyzes, and blinds him. I laughed so hard when he foamed at the mouth. It was so... So Tony Shalhoub is the spider. Yes, Tony Shalhoub is the spider. And she's a woman. Oh, Tony Shalhoub's a woman?

One of the only female characters in the film series. And they named it Tony Shalhoub. And they named, Tony Shalhoub's a woman? One of the only female characters in the film series. And they named it Tony Shalhoub? They named it Tony Shalhoub. She called it Monk. Sam returns and rescues Frodo from Tony, only to have the orcs appear and capture him. Once again, Sam and Frodo manage to escape and continue their journey.

This was like so fucked up. I was like, Gollum? That's so rude. I sort of felt like this was this was a highlight for me the spider attack and all that stuff because i was very able to keep track of the plot in this yes i was like the spider wants to get it hard i know and so as theoden gathers his army um aragorn learns from elrond that Arwen is dying. She refused to leave Middle-earth in order to be with Aragorn

and Arwen convinces Elrond to have King Elendil's sword be reforged so that Aragorn can reclaim his birthright. Joined by Legolas and Gimli, Aragorn travels to the Dead Men's Lair pledging to release them from the undead curse if they come to Gondor's aid. At this moment moment i was like what in the pirates of the caribbean is this i it was so wild that these like bones these green

glowy bones are like gonna be fighting with him and i was confused because i was like so the arrow went through but then suddenly their swords can touch the fuck it does make you think about because i thought about pirates of the caribbean and i don't know what years those came out but like i wonder about like the cgi inspiration taken from these different things and also this book was written before wizard of oz i think so i also think like or no after after mike just heard me and corrected me he told me he wasn't gonna listen and i was like i love that mike was like, I love that. Mike was like, he jumped on you after, so fast,

which is the point I was trying to make, which is that J.R.R. Tolkien, um, did possibly rip some from the wizard of Oz, which, you know, um,

I understand. Cause it's a great, simple story. Um, but it was most of the visual stuff that I thought was like, this is so reminiscent of that even having it be like all emerald and everything like felt um just uh you know not not original in that sense yet i wasn't mad at it so wait so arwen was supposed to leave middle earth why

because the elves are all going they're like we're sick of it here we don't want to be here anymore and that's when you see in the last scene when all the hobbits tearfully bid each other goodbye for like 45 minutes it's because they're going into the west so they're all the elves are going they're just like leaving and she was supposed to go but she wanted to stay with her boyfriend is middle okay so let's say middle earth is say america so when you leave middle earth you leave america are you going to africa where are you going they're going to like hawaii okay okay and it's okay so they want to go like relax and like have like a sort of easier time because they're kind of always being messed with when they are in the middle earth.

Like they have to constantly fight people and shit. And it's like, it's like very stressful. I would imagine. Yeah. So Faramir is gravely wounded, believing his son to be dead. I was calling him dental damn.

When I asked questions to John, so he falls into madness and truly he is so... When he was like on fire and runs off that ledge. Oh my God. Again, I couldn't stop laughing. That was a good part. Yeah.

Gandalf is left to defend the city against the orc army. As the orcs force their way into the city, Denethor attempts to kill himself and Faramir on a prairie? Pyre. Pyre. Yes, she reads well. Faramir on a prairie? Pyre. Pyre, yes.

She reads well. Faramir is saved, but Denthor leaps to his death, truly on fire. It is nuts. Theoden and Eoramor arrive with their army during the ensuing battle. The Witch King mortally wounds Thiororn irwin oh my god killing the witch king with mary's help aragorn arrives with the army of dead to overcome saran's forces and win

the battle so that was the cool part where she stabbed the witch king in the face yes that i loved when he was like no man could kill me and then the hobbit was like, but I can. And then she was like, and I'm a woman, bitch. I was like, okay. I liked that. That was a really good feminist moment. And I appreciated it. And I also just liked the balls it takes to stab someone in the face. Especially when you can't even see what's in there.

Right? I mean, it wouldn't have been my first move i honestly would have decapitated him as opposed to sticking the sword in him that's fucked up yeah but it ended things quickly um the only quick thing to happen in this movie that is true the best part also was way too short um so aragorn marches up to the upon the black gate as a distraction so frodo and sam can reach mount doom and frodo and sam reach the volcano but golem attacks them just as they reach mount doom isn't it wild mount doom but then there's frodo and aragorn and yeah this is like so easy like it's literally mount doom you're scared like frodo and sam reach the volcano

but golem attacks them just as they reach mount Doom and as Frodo stands on the ledge over the volcanic fire he succumbs to the ring and claims it as his own putting it on his finger Gollum and Frodo grapple both falling off the ledge and Gollum falls into the lava with the ring and dies which I couldn't believe and Frodo is rescued by Sam as Frodo and Sam escape Sauron is destroyed along with his orcs and Nazgul as Mordor crumbles, which to me, and then I'm like, that's the end. Like this was one of the many endings where you're like, this is an epic ending. Gollum just died in the fire.

They did it. They watched the thing crumble. But no, there's 45 minutes left. Also, once you bite somebody's finger off, that's a wrap. That was savage i literally couldn't believe how savagely this thing with stringy hair bit an imaginary finger off and then it became real and then he was he like threw the bloody nub down i was like the fuck and then sam's like reach for me i'm like he probably can't his fingers gone my god it was wild yeah

that whole thing the whole moment when he's like about to when Frodo's about to fall I thought he could die because this is the fun thing about not knowing anything and so when you both saw this movie had you did you know where the story was going or was it all a surprise to you the first time you saw it

so I had read the books at this point so i knew it was happening um that said re-watching as an adult i'm like sam was in a toxic friendship like just i would be so mad if i got all the way to the end i'd like carried him all the way to the top and he's like just kidding i still it's so true like you're just like i do everything for you i got he got this this summary doesn't even include the whole thing that happened with the bread i'm like the bread trick like this fell all the way down a mountain found some bread that gollum had thrown it then said i'm gonna go back up i would have been like bitch you're on your own and i'm gonna eat these crumbs i i said i was like

he should be eating it even if it's stale he needs the energy but um gandalf flies in with eagles to rescue the hobbit so you think it's almost I actually thought they might die in this like lava and like that would be kind of a cool ending well like they kind of saved everyone but they die but no they get snatched up in the talons of some eagles and they get reunited with the rest of the fellowship in Minas Tirith and Aragorn is crowned King of Gondor and marries Arwen, and the hobbits return home to the Shire. A few years later,

yes, years later, Frodo departs Middle-earth for the Undying Lands with his uncle Bilbo, Gandalf, and the elves, and the last words of both of the book and the film are the same. Sam closes with, well, I'm back.

Mmm. So there was actually another ending in the book there was an additional ending section and wow that's even big books have a director's cut yeah nobody was like it was between it was like when they go back to the hobbit world it's like all fucked up and they have to fix it and it's like incredibly long and like people who are fans of the books were like really mad that didn't make it into the movie they were like it needed six endings not five but like I do agree that five endings was the perfect amount yeah yeah I truly kept thinking like it was over and it was it was and Mike had told me that there were a bunch of endings and that's kind of like frustrating because you feel like it's going to be over. And I was like, I mean, he's not frustrated. He loves it.

But I was like ready for that. And still every time it happened, I went, wait, really? That wasn't it? Like, oh my God, that was such an ending. Like how could it even be more of an ending? But they always find a way. It was truly so wild. Also, the elephants.

I'm like, what is indigenous to this land like what like where middle earth just has elephants giant eagles fucking like scary dragons it's it's everything is there it's and then also i was like how do these elephants know how to fight with their tusks who's doing that how did they wrap fucking spikes around their tusks i was really not on board for these elephants and then i said to john i was like oh my god are they using real elephants and john goes you idiot look at how big they are i was like okay well did you feel like just so much how did you feel nicole with this being the last of this this little i don't even know what you call it because it's not i guess it's the trilogy trilogy do you feel

satisfied by the ending i feel over satisfied because so many endings happened and i'm so annoyed that the end was frodo being like ah i wrote a book and I'm like so he we just watched a tortured art author go through their story and then you go see that uh Sam has two kids I was like I don't give a fuck about his two kids well yeah so we get to we see him at the end with his like he wakes up in bed and everyone's like yay you're fine because he was about to die and then he's good then he writes the whole book which I mean I guess if you wrote I mean the book is really old so like there's something like it wasn't totally a cliche to have it end with like the like lead actor being like the end

that was still like maybe like a fresh idea can I ask you guys how would you have felt if it had ended with Fredo and Sam getting together it seems like you guys are really into that concept. I would have really liked it because I think it was unrequited love. I felt like Sam was ready to like jump off a mountain for Mr. Frodo. And Frodo was just truly being like, yeah, you'll do anything I want you to do. And I'm going to be evil now and you're still going to love me. And I would have really appreciated if Frodo was like, you know what, Sam sam you've been there for me and i'll be there for you at night like i think it just would have been really nice like i enjoyed that it ultimately was a friendship story in that

sense but i felt like i agree with you that if there was more reciprocity from frodo's side where you really got to see how much it meant to him that like Sam had done all this stuff like it felt like there wasn't enough of that because I do think you're right Gabby that it was kind of toxic the way that you know Sam just did everything for this guy and he just he just keeps looking after the wrong thing plus even Frodo I think

I was frustrated by Frodo being so protective of Gollum the entire time I found that kind of annoying. Yes because I was like you just met this stringy idiot and you don't know him he's creepy as fuck although i did love the end where frodo wakes up and he's like gandalf and then literally the hobbits jump around in bed with him where he like hugs them and hugs them and hugs them and hugs them. And then all the tall people just stood there and watched. And I was like, this is weird. And there was a tweet about that scene that's like me and all my friends when COVID ends.

And when I saw it, I like literally almost started crying. I was like, this is what I'm moving to. That's funny. That's funny. I love that. I know, I get it. Yeah, now we get so many things. Sort of.

Even though I obviously miss major plot points so let's read some of this trivia that we have here about this movie so peter jackson has a cameo as a corsair pirate in the extended version he's pierced in the chest by legolas's arrow and dramatically dies and in the standard cut he's seen walking on a ship as gandalf is talking about gathering armies i think that's really cute that he had a cameo. And that he cut himself out of it. Like, what's that? That's what he saw.

Now, in the extended version, is he a good actor? Yeah. I actually don't remember this scene, but I do remember his cameo in the first movie. Oh! My friend actually sent me a picture recently

and was like, who's this random man eating a carrot at a fancy coney? And I was like, cool, that's Peter Jackson. Gabby, do you remember this cameo?

I don't. I do remember the first one, though. Did you guys notice that Brett McKenzie from Flight of the Conchords is in these movies, Nicole? I wouldn't have known it was him because

Mike points him out. Who was he in the movie? He has no facial hair, so it's half of why he looks really different and I think he has long a long wig on but he he like says goodbye I mean I honestly I don't like know what his care he's kind of like a side character but he like says goodbye to the elves I think he is an elf um it's pretty surprising oh. Didn't clock it. You guys know that, like, the orc in this movie with the really bulbous face, apparently he's played by, like, one of the elves from the first two movies.

Because I definitely looked up, like, orc, bulbous, pink face. Like, who is this guy? And that was my thought. That's nice. His name, Gothmog. I think that he looks so much like Trump. Like I feel like as Trump gets further in his presidency, he looks more and more like the bulbous pink fork.

Is it the one that has like an eye hole? Yeah. The one who's like stand your ground and then like sidesteps a huge piece of the castle that they threw at them. I was like, you two stepped away from that like that's a lot of things this movie were wild so the new zealand army was used oh the whole army was used as extras well this goes to show we who needs an army for aragon's army they're just hanging out

fighting uh was overly enthusiastic it did not lean towards pretend fighting. Their fierce fighting with stunt doubles resulted in many injuries. Wow. I'm going to ask a question that's ignorant, but I'm surprised that New Zealand has an army. Like I feel like they're not usually involved in any sort of dispute. Am I wrong? They created it for this.

Wait, really? No. Oh, I was like, well, there we were like maybe that's why the army was available yeah they're like dude we are we have been trained and we have nowhere to go let's fake fight and we'll actually hurt each other um that's pretty awesome okay so for the scene when frodo gets pierced by shalob tony shalob the spider elijah wood had two alka seltzers hidden under his tongue, which he chewed up to create white foam, which he then leaked out of the corner of his mouth. That's funny. I like things like that. Cause then you just picture him like putting them in and

being like, yeah. Have you guys ever seen the episode of the Tyra Banks show where she does that trick? No, she like does like a modeling trick modeling trick no it's like when she had her talk show and she like pretended to be rapid she was like i'm sick and then she did the proto trick she chewed up alka-seltzer so it's i guess it's a secret i always love when tyra does a trick i mean it looks kind of sexy right that's so funny she no i love when she like likes to prank people she's so nutty she's so funny so the final confrontation between frodo and gollum in the return of the king was originally going to end with frodo pushing gollum off the edge into mount doom was meant to be straight

out murder jackson admitted uh at the time we were okay with it because we felt everyone wanted frodo to kill gollum but of course course, it was very un-Tolkien. Years later, the scene was reshot as it ended up in the film. Years later? No. Dang. Oh, yeah. I guess they had time, though, because they shot them all at once.

And then I'm sure post-production was so long. Yeah. They must have been living there doing this for just years. Mm-hmm. Oh, Pippin isn't the only composer in the movie. Viggo Mortensen wrote the melody for the song he sings at Aragorn's coronation. The lyrics are from the book. Wow.

Wow. Just taking lyrics and just riffing and making up a melody is really. I don't even know what that means. That's how musically illiterate I am. I mean, it's literally if you just read a poem, but you sang it and no one told you how to do it. And you're like, this is the story of Lord of the Rings. Oh, I do that all the time. Yeah, you know what it is.

So Dominic Monaghan, Mary, said in an interview that he and Billy Boyd, Pippin, were teamed up right at the start and did most of their training, fencing, canoeing together. Then they were separated for the return of the King to make the sadness Mary and Pippin feel when, Oh, I get it. So they separated themselves during the second movie as they were separated in the movie,

um, to make it more genuine. According to Monaghan, neither he nor boy Boyd appreciated being separated for the third film. So the trick worked. Yeah. But that's like not that's not fun like you're like living in another country and like you're bored and you got to be best friends with someone and then like you don't get to hang out like that sucks i don't like it

um peter jackson said the original orc costumes resulted in full diaper walk he hated the diaper walk so much that he had their costumes redesigned and reshot huge portions of the film. Oh my God, it's so expensive. Yeah. How much did that cost? I mean,

just to go like, so much money. They're walking weird. Can we do it again? I hate this. But also, it's like, you didn't do a walkthrough

of the costumes before you started shooting? Peter, that's on you, my friend. That's honestly like being a man in this industry.

Like, you're just like, we'll shoot the whole thing and like halfway through, you're like, do it again. I don't like it. The Lord of the Rings trilogy became the most nominated film franchise in Academy Award history with 30 nominations, surpassing the Godfather trilogy, 28, and the Star Wars. Star Wars was nominated for Oscars. They have 21 nominations it's probably like all special effects yeah yeah effects and like sound design um since john reese davies suffered constant rashes from wearing the gimli makeup the makeup department gave him the

opportunity to throw his gimli mask into the fire on his last day of pickup photography he didn't hesitate a moment to grab it and burn it. So he's better than Frodo. Yeah, he just threw it in. That's truly like, that's also feels like a Wizard of Oz connection because the Tin Man had like, he was like dying or something. Yeah, and toxic makeup.

And I think the green makeup is also toxic for the Wicked Witch of the West. But also we're in the future. They couldn't figure out something for this man to wear that didn't give him a rash? I know for years, he's just like getting a rash every day at work. That must have been so hard to shoot a movie like this

for years because you have to sit in the chair for like so long to get your face put on. And if it's uncomfortable, I mean, I can't even imagine. Oof. Yeah. But I would do it. Same. same we're available we're very available uh why didn't the characters just fly on the giant eagles into mordor and drop the one ring into the mountain doom this is not in fact a plot hole it's one i've

i didn't even think of the eye ofauron would have been a major obstacle. Also, it is explained that the eagles are very proud creatures and did not take sides in the War of the Ring until the end, so they would not have assisted. Wow, how fucking noble of these eagles. The eagles didn't pick a side? Isn't it kind of based on who's riding them? I don't know if I really buy this whole explanation.

I feel like it's a bit defensive. It's like the Eagles, honestly, were really impartial and they just didn't want to make any sort of moves that they might just regret later. At the very, very end. This film earned

$377.8 million in the U.s and canada and it was the highest grossing film of 2003 worldwide at 1.142 billion and was the second film in history to earn over a billion dollars seems like too much dang money that's a lot the film horse yeah i want to find that out i don't know while you look that up the film holds a 93 approval rating on rotten tomatoes with an average score of 8.69 slash 10 out of 10 it was titanic that's actually really surprising because that was like 97 and then this was 2004 three four three oh yeah that's a while. So Roger Ebert of the Chicago Sun-Times

gave three and a half stars out of four saying, Return of the King is such a crowning achievement, such a visionary use of all the tools of special effects, such a pure spectacle

that it can be enjoyed even by those who have not seen the first two films. Well, why didn't you give it four stars? I agree with that.

I think it's a good standalone film. After it was done, I was like why wasn't this just the movie right it does kind of feel like it tells the whole story if you just throw on a little bit at the top about like bilbo yeah yeah yeah i think it's yeah the whole story is in there the main criticism of lord of the rings return of the king was it's running time particularly the epilogue even rave reviews of the film commented on its length there was also

criticism regarding the army of dead's appearance yeah truly they look like they were colored in with a highlighter rapidly ending the battle yeah it did end so quickly the battle of the peloton fields sure and it got a lot of accolades so as we said it was nominated for 11 academy awards best picture best director best adapted screenplay best original score best original song best visual effects best art direction best costume is out okay i'm getting bored best makeup best sound mixing and best film editing so there you go that none of the actors were nominated because i'm like if you have a best picture who was in the fucking picture the actors right it feels like some of those people

I mean Andy Serkis he was always eating raw fish and slithering around wait real raw fish I don't know it looked I don't know I just feel like it should have been nominated like if anyone in that film was nominated it should have been Andy Serkis yeah we agree with that

because he does so much and he's putting on like if you what I still need to see is like some footage of him shooting this role. Because I feel like it'd be so amazing to watch him fully committed in front of a green screen as like this rotten little thing. And I think if I was in the movie, it would take me a minute to get over the tee hee hees. Because he's probably taking himself so seriously. And I'm like, I'm a hobbit. And this man is in a onesie. Yeah, I forgot that he would be in all green like that.

He'd be in like a green screen suit or whatever. Yeah, with like little tags on him for where they're going to put the CGI. And Julie being like, precious. And you're like, my friend, this is funny. At the 78th Academy Awards in 2004, the film won all the categories for which it was nominated wow holds the record for the highest Academy Awards totals along with Titanic and Ben Hur it also holds the record for the highest clean sweep at the Oscars it feels like we have to take

Ben Hur out of it because wasn't that one of the first movies ever? Like how many movies were in the Oscars? Yeah. It was like, and the nominees are Ben-Hur, Ben-Hur, and Ben-Hur. And they're like, well, I guess Ben-Hur wins. We,

we like the movie from this year. That's the one that should win. We like the movie from this year. It's so funny. Okay. So, I mean, I,

I think it's interesting how successful these movies are Nicole like there's it's kind of funny like they they have like 95 percent of Rotten Tomatoes they're just crushing it non-stop we don't get it but here's the thing I always wondered this about Rotten Tomatoes does anyone go on there who like just doesn't like like it's like it feels like you only do that if you want to like rip on something but with something like this because it's so beloved it's like you would never just go put out like a hateful review for no reason yeah yeah i but then yeah i mean but then people like don't they negatively negatively review star wars shit even though people but then like the fans also hate star wars at the same time yeah i agree with you i don't think anyone would give this a negative review do you guys feel like with this franchise like people are are more forgiving than they are because i feel like

with star wars people really like to rip it like rip on it even though they're huge fans like they still want to go like they didn't do it right i feel like everyone's pretty happy with lord of the rings who like is a fan is that true or is there like that underbelly of people where they're like fuck this one i think that is like to me of people where they're like, fuck this one? I think that it's like, to me, it seems like they're like less connected than the Star Wars ones are. I don't know anything about Star Wars, but I've heard secondhand from my sister

whose boyfriend made her watch that and that there's more of a through line. Like this, like for me, I've never actually seen The Hobbits because like, I'm like, I don't, I feel like it's trickery that they made the dwarves hot. Like they're like, oh, I won't watch it unless the dwarves are hot and on principle i

won't bow to the trickery um but so like it's the fact that the fact that they made like 700 hobbits or whatever doesn't like affect my understanding of the original trilogy yeah also haven't seen the hobbit movies because i was like i'm not gonna do three hobbit movies also there's like no romance i feel like and i was like 25 years old at that time i was like okay i don't need this but i was getting texts about how the dwarves are really hot recently and i was like i guess like i'm like in quarantine maybe but i haven't gotten around to it yet that's so interesting though that you can love these movies so much and not have any interest in the other ones. I mean, I feel like I get it

but I'm also surprised. But that's like the nice man I live with he was like you're on your own for the Hobbit movies I haven't watched them but he will sit and watch Lord of the Rings for fun and loves it. Has Mike seen the Hobbit movies? Mike, have you seen the Hobbit movies? Mike, have you seen the

Hobbit movies? Yeah, they suck. Oh, interesting. Also, isn't the Hobbit like 90 pages long? I don't know. I was in the play when I was a kid of the Hobbit, so that'll bring you a lot of that. I was a troll. I was like Magpie

or something. I don't know. Magpie. Not Mc know magpie just magpie or like mag or something did you enjoy the role do you feel like it was a challenging role okay he says the animated hobbit is a shit I did enjoy being a troll in the hobbit I loved it I got to sing a song about mutton

and I got to be like funny and I I'll put some pictures when we do that because i have some at my do you have footage of this my mom can find um you know what i know someone who does and this would probably be the time to try to get yes yeah yes yeah because my friend's brother was the lead so their family oh it definitely has the home video um i can't wait to see this yeah that could be really horrible I don't know if I can watch it well Gabby, Callie thank you so much for doing this

do you guys have anything you'd like to plug? like to plug? no we just came on to the Lord of the Rings unless Gabby has something no we just love Lord of the Rings so much we're plugging the Lord of the rings trilogy extended edition okay not the theatrical version please extended edition perfect lauren do you have

anything you want to plug um i would like to plug um my patreon if you just go to patreon.com lauren lab kiss which i i'm plugging a lot but it does make a difference to talk about it so check it out I have a lot of free episodes on there if you're on the fence and you want to see what's up you can just go to that website and listen to some episodes for free and watch The Wrong Missy on Netflix and what about you Nicole? Well Nailed It is on Netflix also I have other podcasts Why Won't You Date Me, Best Friends, Drag Her, Um, also I have other podcasts. Why won't you date me? Best friends, drag her, uh, 90 day bay. And I have a book called very fat, very brave, and you can get that anywhere. Yes. Everyone needs to go buy it. Okay. Well, thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you so much for having us. It was so fun. And we have a little segment we call the battle of the five star segment where we read five star reviews. And this one is called newcomers is a delight by Rose has no friends. Well, that's our demo. I'm a huge, I'm a huge star Wars fan. And my sister had, has had never made it through a whole star Wars film without falling asleep

until this June during quarantine, we watched all of them together and listening to you guys was so funny because all the questions and thoughts she had were so similar to your experience. And she called C3PO every name except his actual one for the entirety of the skywalker saga so that's perfect thank you oh and it says she's now a fan she now says she's a fan of star wars and we're planning on a trip to galaxy's edge and to disneyland uh in disneyland and i might just have to buy her a yoda backpack wow that's really sweet thank you rose has no friends um we will be back

next week with something new related to the franchise, which right now is a surprise to us. So we will see what we're going to do next. And if it's a Hobbit movie, apparently it sucks. So, so we know. So join us again next week and find out what we're watching and we'll see you

then. Yes. Bye. and we'll see you then. Yes. Bye-bye. That was a Hiddem Original.