Next Level Pros - #107: Beyoncé’s Dad Shares His Success Blueprint: Mathew Knowles Interview

Episode Date: June 7, 2024

Welcome to a new episode of The Founder Podcast. In today’s conversation, we’re joined with Mathew Knowles, the visionary behind Destiny's Child and Beyoncé's meteoric rise. Mathew shares his journey from corporate America to becoming a powerhouse in the music industry, offering invaluable lessons on success, brand building, and resilience. Tune in to hear Mathew's thoughts on family, fame, and the future of music. Highlights:"You have to build a brand before you can cash in on it." "Being talented isn't enough; you need star power, hit songs, and a strategic approach." "It's the crazy ones that typically break the mold and do incredible things." Timestamps:00:00 - Transitioning from Corporate America to Music02:27 - Proudly Known as Beyoncé’s Dad04:11 - Stepping Off the Fortune 20007:56 - Building a Brand in the Music Industry13:24 - Targeting the World Market17:43 - The Evolution of Destiny's Child31:23 - Handling Family Dynamics in Business41:56 - Risk-Taking and Financial Struggles45:18 - Understanding the Realities of the Music Industry52:20 - Public Speaking and Empowering the Next GenerationLive Links:Looking to scale your business? Want to learn directly from the same team that helped me sell my last business for 9 figures? Click this link below to check out how you can work with us. https://nextlevelhomepros.com/grow-home-service-vsl Join my community - Founder Acceleration ⁠https://www.founderacceleration.com ⁠ Apply for our next Mastermind:h⁠ttps://www.thefoundermastermind.com⁠ Golf with Chris h⁠ttps://www.golfwithchris.com⁠Watch my latest PodcastApple- ⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-founder-podcast⁠/id1687030281S⁠Spotify- ⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show⁠/1e0cL2vI1JAtQrojSOA7D2⁠ YouTube - @thefounderspodcast

You know, in 2011, that Beyonce decided to go a different way as far as having you as a manager or whatnot. How were you able to handle that? I'm sure that was really tough for you, both as a manager and as a father. Well, it was certainly tough, Chris. Does it get old being referred to as Beyonce's dad, or is that totally cool and you're just super proud of her? I'm cool with it. I have a lot of gratitude to Chris to be able to have architect Beyonce's career and be her father. I'm quite grateful. So when someone says that, it's an honor. What are some conspiracy theories that you feel are true that surround the music industry? Well, I like how you really framed that, Chris, because most of us in the music industry, we... What would it be like to be the father of one of the greatest musicians of all time?

In this episode, we dive in with Mr. Matthew Knowles, father of Beyonce, the man that literally put Destiny's Child on the map and then later launched Beyonce into her solo career. We'll learn how he took the principles of being successful in the business world and applied them in the music industry and took Beyonce's career and launched it to outer space. You're not going to want to miss this episode. You also find out how he really feels about his son-in-law, Jay-Z. So let's dive in. Welcome to another episode of the Founder Podcast. Today, I'm super excited to have Mr. Knowles. Matthew Knowles, sometimes referred to as the father of Beyonce. This guy has an illustrious career in the music industry, sold three different businesses, has all kinds of stories to success, is currently a public speaker. He has been everywhere, anywhere. So honored to have you. Welcome to the show, Mr. Knowles. Well, Chris, I was saying earlier, I have many names. Dr. Knowles, because I'm in the classroom a lot. I got my PhD. So Dr.

Knowles, Professor Knowles, Mr. Knowles. But the one that I get from the young people is Beyonce and Celine's dad. Now they're about to add my granddaughter, Blue Ivy, into it so i'm gonna be beyonce solange blue ivy dad oh that's awesome you gotta you gotta tell me like does it get old being referred to as beyonce's dad or is that totally cool and you're just super proud of her no it's it's totally cool i'm super proud of it. That only happens with the younger generation. Most people refer to me as Mr. Knowles or people I get to know, Matthew. But the younger generation, sometimes they say Beyonce's daddy. I'm cool with it, man. I have a lot of gratitude, Chris, to be able to have architect Beyonce's career and be her father. Man, I'm quite grateful. I mean, so when someone says that, it's an honor.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would think, right, like if my daughter and I was a part of her career and helped her get to the level that Beyonce has achieved, right, like that's a huge honor, I'm sure that you feel. So, you know, you've been in the music industry for a long time. You've seen a lot of different success. You know, you were initially a part of helping put Destiny's Child on the map or whatnot. You know, I've watched a lot of like older interviews and and some of the early videos and stuff. I'd love to hear some of the lesser known stories of how that all came to be. What initially got you into the music industry?

Good question, Chris. Most people don't realize that I did 20 years of corporate America. And I worked for three Fortune 200 companies working with Xerox, working with Phillips Medical Systems, working with Johnson & Johnson, only three companies in 20 years I worked with, in diagnostic imaging. And I was a neurosurgical specialist at the end of my career with Johnson & Johnson. We had a, that morning we had surgery and afterwards the neurosurgeon called me to his office to tell me he couldn't use my instruments anymore. And I asked him why. And he said, because this managed care thing just started and the cost was too high. And,

you know, I called my former wife and told her I couldn't do it anymore because I saw the writing on the wall that cost was going to be in medical care a big deal. So there was a young kid in Houston, a rapper who had really been asking me to manage him. I had never been a music manager, but he knew my success in corporate America, being the number one sales rep in the world with Xerox Medical Systems. And so he knew that, and I would go to some of the seminars in the city in Houston. And so I transitioned, and I always say that, Chris, I didn't quit my job that day. I transitioned, went back to school, took some music business courses, went to almost every seminar I could get to, asked so many questions, people would be annoyed because they were like, hey, give

somebody else a chance. I'm like, hey, if you're being shy, I'm not wasting my money. Right. But, you know, that's how I got in the industry, really with this rapper named Lil' O. That was the first artist I got a record deal with. What year was that? You said, where is he now? No, what year was that you said where is he now no what year was that oh gosh that would have been around 1997 okay somewhere around there 1997 so it sounds like you know sales was very foundational to your success right you were you had worked as in in some sales aspect in corporate America. Is that right?

Yeah, 20 years. 20 years sales and marketing. How would you say that contributed or attributed to your success in the music world? Because I'm a big sales believer. Much of my background comes from the door-to-door sales world and building sales teams and later building a 300-man sales floor, that type of thing. So how would you say that skill transitioned over into the music industry? Well, I say it a lot, especially those years, the 10 years I was with Xerox and then all those years, again, eight of those with the medical division.

It helped really scope my knowledge because we're always selling ourselves, Chris. We're always selling ourselves. And we sell it in so many different ways. Nonverbally, we sell ourselves. You know, I have a three-second rule that in three seconds, people form an opinion of us. And it's kind of hard to get that opinion to change so you have to be on and how the prospect and get new but the marketing part how to build a brand that was new to the music industry they were selling records i was building brands. And to give me an example, when you look at a marketing budget, a typical marketing budget and one of the things, you have a sales background.

One of the things I pride myself, I always start with the president of an organization. Kick me down to someone else, but I'm going to start there. And the president, L'Oreal, we built this amazing relationship and probably did 18, 20 commercials with L'Oreal. We built this amazing relationship and probably did 18, 20 commercials with L'Oreal. But with $25 million, Beyonce's in the commercial, the music, the single is in the commercial. You're getting way more eyeballs than the traditional way back in the 90s and early 2000s of, you know, media on TV or at radio. Right. Getting those eyeballs with a worldwide commercial. So that's the approach.

You know, I probably did at least 20 different brands. We built a partnership, Mercedes, Pepsi, McDonald's, Nintendo, Samsung. I can go on and on. Walmart. I'm interested to understand, when you do these deals, was it ever a revenue share, a share in the equity, or was it always a sponsorship? You get paid for for uh having beyonce on these commercials or how was that structured no they were always sponsorships okay um but the beauty is it always or most of the time almost every time the music was part of the commercial yeah and that became dollars as well. Right.

So it wasn't just that fee that was being charged, but understanding how it could build a brand. Yeah. And that was about building the brand. Sometimes you don't get immediate. You have to build a brand before you can cash in on it. Right. Yeah, it's interesting.

You know, we're seeing this big shift in the music industry, right? I was talking with T-Pain the other day. So he was on the show and kind of off camera, we were chatting about, and I didn't really understand like how the music industry is necessarily making money now, right? Because traditionally it was like sign a record label, they'll pay you this big chunk of money. Like that's how T-Pain made his money initially, right? Got a $40 million deal. And that was the game of yesteryear, right? 10, 15, 20 years ago, like that was the way that you made it in the music industry. Now they're operating much like influencers, right? Use your music to gain followership and then go and do these brand

deals. And we're starting to see even more than just a sponsorship. We're seeing people that are holding equity stakes, right? Whether it's in a alcohol brand or you see Ryan Reynolds recently parlaying into Mint Mobile, right? Like these influencers in the entertainment space are really coming to understand like the value that they have from an equity standpoint, which is just, I don't know. I'd love to hear like your take of where you think things are shifting. Yeah, you're right, Chris. I just got offered literally last week to be part of a group that we can go and get, go out and publicly trade? I think that's where you're going to begin to see happen in the music industry. Now, the thing about that, Chris, it still will only be 1% of the market.

Just like 1% of the artists in the music industry make a profit in major record labels, more like seven to eight independent record labels. But you still have to do the foundational stuff and it can't jump to the money. You have to build a career first. And that's the mistake a lot of artists make in the music industry when they get that one chance they can't sustain it because they haven't built their artistry yet right yeah it's and i would say that is like the same in in like the info space right like you're starting to see artists and entertainers really like the influencer and info space, right? Like people have to, like authors, right? Like they have to build the following before they can go and sell their book, right?

And the people that successfully do that, they build a community. We see it happening through Facebook communities or whatever else, right? Now I have a community that will continually buy anything that I recommend, that I endorse or whatever. And it's a really interesting shift in the whole economy. Right. And that's the, again, the key is building that brand and knowing how to build that community, that brand, and understand because you have a million followers, that means a million people are coming to your concert. Understanding the conversion rate of numbers is you get 3%. That's doing exceptional.

So you have to have this knowledge. That's the whole key is having the knowledge of knowing how to build a brand, having the knowledge on artist development, having the knowledge of marketing, all of those things, and even understanding the world. See, when I started in the industry, there was a reason I named my company Music World Entertainment. Right. There's only 300 and something million people in America. There's 7.8 billion people in the world. It's just baffling to me that artists and record labels spend so much time in America. We didn't do that. We spent time, a significant amount of time in Europe, in Japan, in Asia, Brazil. So you have to understand the approach just has to be the world, not just America. Yeah, no, no, 100%. Yeah, so it's pretty

awesome that, I mean, you talking about how you went and targeted the whole world. It is crazy. I've traveled a lot of the world. In fact, I was just in India and Dubai and stuff. And I read a recent statistic, the amount of wealthy people in China and India combined, I mean, you got about three and a half billion. The amount of wealthy people outnumbers the total population of the US. So the dollars ready to be spent outside of the U.S. are so big. And yet us as Americans, we're so shallow minded so often. Right. It's just like we only think it's headquarters. It's actually sad sometimes that, again, it's lack of knowledge. I mean, you talk about the wealth in that incredible number you just said. Also, when you look at 30 and younger,

outside of America, the age of 30 and younger, which would be our targeted base in music, is just astronomical. I mean, I was just in Riyadh and 70% of the population is 30 and younger. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy.

So, I mean, you obviously had a very unique vision when Destiny's Child, Beyonce, your other daughter, Solange, you know, they were all young. You had this great vision. Like, what did you initially imagine this becoming? Like, were you always a big visionary and said, hey, we're going to go take over the world? Or was there a certain thing that happened that opened you up to, like, man, this could be pretty awesome? in high school and college on championship basketball teams at Xerox Medical System, number one sales rep in the world. Started a clothing line from zero and sold it in seven

years along with my partners and my family for a sizable, sizable number. I only think about being number one. I love it. Chicago Sky, champions, the team that I invested in. Actually, number two pisses me off. Winners only, baby. Number two, we just got outworked. I love it. I love it. My kind of guy. Yeah. So you thought very big from the beginning. I mean, when you saw these girls, I mean,

how old were the girls when you started Destiny's Child? So that's what most people that realize, you know, there was an evolution from a girl group called Girls Time that went on Star Search. And that evolution went to another name and it went to another name and finally Destiny

became Destiny's Child. But there was a void in the marketplace. Girl groups at that time were dressing baggy and, you know, had a hard vibe to them. You know, rap and hip hop had just come out. And we came with just the opposite. You know, we came with this really fun, cool, sexy style. And all of it matched.

The music matched. The look matched the artist. Because you have to have that type of continuity. Right. that type of continuity right and and we had a you know it also chris regardless of whoever you interview in the music industry it starts with a great song also i don't care who you are you have a whack song it equals whack so what what was it what was the song that put you on the map? It was No, No, No, Part One and Part Two. All right. And that came about, again, with a strategy that I, you know, there's a company called Broadcast Data System, BDS.

Yeah. And they measure every time a record is played, the satellite. And I call them and say, hey, I have a song that's called No, No, No. It's the same band, same lyrics, one's up-tempo, one's a ballad. Can they count as one song instead of two every time it's played? And they said, Mr. Knowles, no one's ever asked us that before. And they said, well, we'll get it's played. And they said, Mr. Knowles, no one's ever asked us that before. And they said, well, we'll get back with you. And they got back and they said, well, we don't see why not. Well, every time they played either one of those, it counted as one.

And out of nowhere, the girls became number one. I love it. With their first single. I love it. With their first single. I love it. That's, that's a, I'm any, any time, you know, something pops off like that, there's always some like out of the box strategy and the fact that you went and you, you made a request that had never been requested before. I mean, clearly that was like one of the, the little hacks or the secrets to, to some of the success, obviously. Well, Chris, I never forget sharing my idea with senior management at Sony. And actually, they laughed at me.

Worse. Until in the meeting, the president of Columbia Records actually had them call BDS, put them on a speakerphone. And it was like, yeah, we remember Mr. Knowles because it was such an unusual request. And we said, well, well, why not? We don't see why I couldn't. That's when I've stopped being considered a daddy in the music industry, but a possible brilliant manager. I love it. I love it. And frankly, no matter what, whether what industry, whatever, I mean, it's always this outside of the box thinking, right? That, that really takes things. And it's, and it's something

that is perceived as almost like a joke or laughable by those that are looking at it or like, man, this guy's out of his mind. Why would anybody do that or this, that, or the other? And it's the crazy ones that typically break the mold and go and do incredible things like this. Well, you know, I don't know if you noticed, Chris, I authored five books. And my first and bestseller of the five is The DNA of Achievers, 10 Traits of Highly Successful Professionals. And one of those chapters is thinking outside the box. Most of us are boxed in thinkers. We've been conditioned on what we can and can't do. We never ask, why are we doing it this way? And we live our daily lives inside of a box with other people just like us running into each other versus taking a step

outside of the box where there's no barriers, no walls. So yeah, thinking outside of the box is really, really important in success. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. As I built my 1,100-person organization, we had six core values. Solgen, each of the letters had something that they stood for. And O in Solgen stood for outside the box, right? And so it's a core value for pretty much anybody that's going to go and accomplish something great. And so I love just drawing those parallels of success across industry,

across culture, across whatever, where it is. So that's, that's pretty phenomenal. Uh, you know, so you, you got these things going, I mean, during a time where competition in the R&B and pop space was very high, right? Early 2000s, you built up Destiny's Child. And I know Destiny's Child was really well known for the live events, the performances or whatnot. Whose brainchild was or was it? Did the girls influence a lot of this? Was it mostly from you did you have somebody else that was coming in and designing things help us understand yeah we had an amazing

team as a matter of fact Beyonce's publicist going back to the early 90s, was part of that team. My former wife and I always say my friend Tina did an exceptional job in creating the image of Destiny's Child because with females, especially, imaging is critical. So creating that image, I understood the importance of building the right team, having the vocal coach, having the choreographer, managing the record label. Because, you know, they have a lot of artists that they have on their label, hundreds, thousands sometimes. And what sets you apart? Building those relationships, understanding what each department does, sales, marketing, international. So it's a lot to learn. And there's a lot of people, as you know, you ran a successful organization and crafting that right team and making people accountable and responsible. Right, right. You know, it sounds like over the years you've you've been involved in some incredible management, building incredible teams. In fact, so a little little something from your Instagram. It says, you know, remembering the growth we were having in the music world entertainment in the early 2000s.

You had Destiny's Child. Right. You had a solo. You'd sold the artist management arm of Music World. You had partnered with Sanctuary Records. You had your clothing lines, House of Darion and Miss Tina. You were beginning the traction of apparel brands to watch Solange, Beyonce, Kelly, Michelle were all beginning their solo careers. So you had all these different things going on. I had a lot going on. You had a lot going on. You had a lot going on. So, you know, and you just started Music World Gospel and purchased Compadre Records.

Like, first of all, how did you manage all of this? Like, I'd love to hear, like, the details. Did you have different management people working under you, managing all the different arms? Are you just a crazy workaholic working 90 hours no no i don't believe in that man i don't believe in and again i believe in a strategic plan yeah so so one of the things when i was with sanctuary and this is important um that was a huge challenge because i had earth winter Wind & Fire, OJ's, Chaka Khan, Kool in a Game. At one point in that whole time frame, I managed Nas. So then I bought all of these black

urban management companies, five of them, and made these young men millionaires, and they were in their late 20s. So we also had Nelly. We had, you know, those kind of floor tree. So we had a huge, huge roster. I had office in LA, office in Houston, office in New York, office, a corporate office in London. So I'm traveling. And at one time I had 117 people just working under the music world division. I was division of the president. But one of the things, unique thing, my assistant has been with me, Lynn Amanza, 23 years. Wow. That's some high trust right there. High trust.

Beyonce's top security I hired that's been with her almost 20 years. Wow. Her publicist that I talked had been with her almost 20 years. Her publicist that I talked to had been with her over 25 years. It's a lot of people that are still there at that core. And that's what it's about. And I always was teaching. I'm always teaching and building that trust factor. That's amazing. That's amazing. Are you a home service business owner struggling to get your time back? Maybe you're feeling like you have to do everything yourself, or maybe you aren't able to break through that certain revenue plateau. You feel like owning your business isn't quite what you thought it would be.

Am I right? I understand you more than you know. I've launched many businesses throughout my life, and I was lucky enough to have built multiple businesses that scaled to two nine-figure exits. But more importantly, I have had even more businesses fail. Why would that be more important? I learned a ton from each venture that I was a part of, each teaching me lessons about how to hire the right people, how to price my product, how to build out proper SOPs, and even building the right culture. These lessons are what led me to being able to sell my most recent business for nearly $200 million. Why am I sharing all this with you? Because I've been in your shoes, feeling the same exact feelings that you are,

and if I knew back then what I know now, life might have been a lot easier for me. Unfortunately, I can't travel back in time, but I can help you so that you don't have to. How? I package everything that I learned into over 150 videos all about my wins and mistakes that I've made in business over the years. And I want to give you access to these videos, but it's so much more than just a bunch of videos. I've created a community of home professionals just like you where people interact and share ideas with each other. Plus, we host live calls every single week where you get direct access to people like myself and my business partners that were a part of these different ventures who are experts

in marketing, operations, software, and even more. All you have to do is book a free call with one of our team members to see if this would be a good fit for you. That way, I can help you take your business to the next level, making you a next-level home pro. So, you know, you helped these girls shift from, you know, a group to a solo, to becoming solo artists? Like, what was the vision with that? Like whose idea, like where did, where did that all stem from? Was it just like,

they got sick of working with each other or it was some, an idea that you had like, Hey, what if, or like, how did, how did that all come about? It certainly wasn't because they, they, they got sick of working with each other. When I tell you, even today, they're best friends. They have an amazing love for each other. But it was another one of my ideas.

You know, some of them work, some of them don't. But, you know, the idea behind it was each one of the ladies had their own specialty genre of music that they loved. Michelle came from the church, so she loved gospel. Kelly loved pop and had a voice that was pop. And Beyonce was, as we know, R&B core. So what I did is in each genre, created them their own solo career. Michelle had four or five number one gospel albums. Kelly had three Grammys that she won.

And over in Europe, Kelly was the it girl over in Europe and Australia because pop is somewhat bigger in those areas. And then Beyonce, you know, from day one, her success just skyrocketed. But what it did, Chris, it brought back a larger community than we had before. It also ensured that they would have a career if something ever happened to Destiny's Child, if they decided to retire, which they did. Got it. No, that makes a lot of sense. So, you know, it's very public that, you know, in 2011 that Beyonce decided to go a different way as far as having you as a

manager or whatnot. How, how were you able to handle that? I'm sure that was really tough for you both as a manager and as a, as a father, like walk us through that experience. Well, it was certainly tough, Chris. But I have been Beyonce's manager for almost 20, let's see, she was 12, 25 years. Nobody in the music industry or only a handful of people in the history of music has managed an A-list artist 20 years or more. So let's start there. Let's start there. She had gotten, Beyonce had gotten some wrong information. She has since apologized and realized it was wrong. But it had nothing to do, as

people thought, with the music industry or music business. It had all to do with family dynamics dynamics and I'll leave it right there. Yeah. So, I mean, as, as a father, was it, was that, was that difficult? Cause obviously, I mean, mixing it, anytime you mix business and family, right. I've worked a lot with family over the years and whatnot. It makes it really hard to just balance that personal relationship. I'm assuming you found very similar type things

in managing a daughter. But again, this had more family dynamics than business dynamics. Right. And those dynamics, as you know, are different. Now, if that was Beyonce, somebody is not a relative. I'll just say, hey, 25 years I managed her, made hundreds of million dollars, made her a star. And I'm tired. But because you are a parent, you have a father, it has that dynamic. Yeah. But sometimes we have to separate that. Right.

And understand the business side versus the emotional, personal side. Right. And that's a challenge for people and challenge for those that affect because there's love and trust involved. So would you call this like, was it a low point for you or did you feel relieved at that point? Again, it was more going on than just that

in family dynamics. That wasn't, it was more going on. I'd rather not get into that part, but it was, it was much more going on than just the music part of it. Yeah. I can imagine. You know, that's all the public knows, but it was, it was more than that. For sure. For sure. And would, so how, how, I mean, that was 13 years ago. How,

how have the last 13 years been between your relationship? It's been great. It's been great. You know, it was a challenge for the initial period. I can imagine. You have to rebuild trust. You have to rebuild your relationship. There's something that happens to every

family. I don't think a family out there that hasn't had something happen. Then you have to understand people get older. They bring others into their lives. They get married. They have kids.

Those dynamics, dad is not the only one right you know you got husband and kids and career i get it and i laugh i said i you know we we we text a lot you know that's that's what all young any dad that's in their 60s or 70s realize you're not going to be talking to your kids you're going to be texting with them so we text a lot I laugh we're like you talk to her like do you not

know like young people don't do that anymore but we have a great relationship matter of fact I'll see her this weekend. My granddaughter is having her elementary graduation. Nice. Yeah. Nice.

I mean, it's great to hear that you guys have been able to heal things because, man, that's difficult. Like, I've had some family issues with business over the years. Like, um, you know, my, my very first business that I launched in 08, um, ended up going bankrupt and my father-in-law and my father were both investors in that business. And, uh, you know, my father who was a school teacher and didn't have a lot of money, he handled it like a champ. He said, you know, hey, look, I know you're going to make it right because we went bankrupt. We lost everything. And, you know, my father-in-law didn't handle it well. And it's actually been

about the same timeline as when it was 2011, right, when things went down. And so similarly, over the last 13 years, it's been this, like, it's just been the strain and initially extremely difficult, right? Like, uh, we very rarely found ourselves alone in a room talking. And when we did, it was strained and, you know, and, but over the years, things heal themselves. We made things right. And, uh, you know, and, and now we're able to, to hang out and have a great time. And we've, we've built And, you know, and now we're able to hang out and have a great time. And we've built that, you know, time, the old saying that time heals all wounds. But, oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. they began to have a revelation and they began to see things from a different lens than they did at 25.

Yeah. You know, at 25, you just don't quite get it, you know? Yeah, it reminds me of like one of my favorite leadership principles. It's called respect different perspectives, right? And I think when we're young, it's very hard for us to respect the perspectives of others. And we only really ever see things from one side. And when we progress or mature as a leader, we understand that there's really never one right side to the story.

There's two different perspectives. And one of my favorite visuals for anybody that's watching this on youtube or whatnot is or if you're just listening to this you take your hand and you put it above your head and you go clockwise do do that do it with me mr knolls come on right here do it clockwise and then and then when you bring it down below you go in the same direction what direction is it going now a different direction it's going it's going counterclockwise right yeah but you didn't but you didn't change the direction right and that it's one of the craziest things and the only thing that changed was your perspective right and and i think what obviously beyonce has learned as she's grown up and different people as we mature is like, man, there's really two different perspectives of any different situation.

And I'm sure you've learned this and developed. And it's like you begin to realize like there is nobody's ever right in one scenario. You just have to understand and respect the other person and the way things are handled. And ultimately, when you do that, it makes it way easier to overcome strains on a relationship or weak points or whatnot. And so, I mean, that's... I think also, Chris, when you get older, and I, you know, one of the things as a college professor for 20 years, I always tell my students first day, I want them to understand my perspective might have been built on wrong, false information. Absolutely. And I think that's where growth has been, is that the information initially received was inaccurate, wrong information. Right. Yeah. Wrong information, wrong interpretation. There's, it really, and it makes you realize that like, even in like war, there's really

never even one right side in war, right? Like, because you have two people operating off two different types of information, two different perspectives, two different interpretations. And rather than working it out, they choose to just battle it out. And, and, uh, you know, it, it can teach you a lot about, about life, but, um, good, good stuff. So, I mean, Mr. Knowles, like Matthew, you've been, you've been involved in a lot, right? Like you've, you've seen, I mean, you, you've been a professor, you've built and sold companies and everything else like and obviously had a lot of financial successes. Was there ever a time that you had a down like that, that that you weren't successfully financial or you lost it all?

I mean, I went through bankruptcy myself. Did you ever go through any of those types of struggles? Yeah. And I just want to make a quick correction. I'm still a professor. I teach at Pepperdine and I teach at the London College of Contemporary Music. And I'll be there, my students, if some of you are listening and see you in two weeks. I love it. But to answer your question, man, I'm in cells. And in my younger part of my life, I was able to accumulate some wealth. But I can tell you there was I was investing everything, time and money into Destiny's Child. And I think when you really believe in something and you believe in the people that you're willing to take those type of risks.

And another one of my chapters in the DNA of achievers, risk takers. And so if you're a risk taker, you're going to have some downfalls. It's the people that play it safe, maybe not. Right. But that wouldn't be me. Unfortunately, you know, fortunately, and, you know, my 72 years old sit in on one of your one of your classes. It sounds like you have some pretty awesome stuff going on as a professor and whatnot. So so you got to answer the question. What are your thoughts on having Jay-Z as a as a as a son in law? I love Jay-Z. He's an amazing man, smart.

And, you know, Beyonce wrote this incredible, beautiful song on her first album that she wanted to marry someone just like her daddy. And I think most girls do, don't they? Yeah, absolutely. So is there ever a time that you guys butted heads? No, never, ever, ever, ever. That's awesome. That's just not the type of relationship that we have. That's cool.

That's cool. You know, it's interesting. There's a lot of conspiracy theories, right, like that float around in music industries, whether it's around like record labels and like who owns what or whatnot. What true, you don't have to answer this question if you don't want to, but I'm always interested, like what are some conspiracy theories

that you feel are true that surround the music industry? Well, I like how you really framed that, Chris, because those of us in the music industry, we laugh how little anyone outside of the music industry, how little they know or understand because it's a very complex industry. Right. It never, it never ceased to amaze me when I'm out with my wife and her girlfriends and I was some of my buddies, they always want to talk about the music industry and they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

And I just don't even say anything. I just be like, you have no idea what you're talking about. But it's a topic. It's a hot topic that everybody wants to talk about. So, I don't know, 75% of the stuff you read, I mean, we're in clickbait world anyway. The 75% of the stuff you read is not even true because even the person who wrote it didn't know or they purposely. So when you get to entertainment and music, the general public doesn't understand it. So what are some things that are true that would maybe surprise the general population? That a million streams makes you about $4,000.

Crazy. Now, but you would hear somebody go on social media, he got a million streams. And then I'm looking like, really? Really? It is wild, like really how little money is in directly just music streaming now, right? Like you have to be in the live performances. You have to be doing the brand deals or whatever else, right? You really got to parlay your image.

And so how true is it? I've heard, and you can put this to rest, that, who's really pulling the strings behind the industry. I've heard that there might even just be only a couple people that are at the very top that own a lot of different things and are making a lot of the calls. Is that, is there any truth to that? Again, it's a 1% like most businesses. Yeah. 1% controls the industry and success.

You know, it's 1% that's there and you said it so eloquently it's really how it was set up Chris from day one the record label is going to make their money and they should because they make an investment and as a businessman you

understand that again when we look at fans, they don't understand. They think the poor artist is being taken advantage of. Well, I invested $5 million. What do you expect? Me to not get it back? So selling records, that's where a record label is going to make their money. And as you said, it's live events, it's touring, it's publishing, it's building brands and building partnerships and collaborations. That's where artists make their money. It's not going to be on selling records. The formula is just not made up that way where it's going to change anytime soon, unless you are the record label yourself.

And what some people are doing now that we have social media and other digital components and a music industry in a digital world now. I'm interested to know your take. So in 2024, you're a brand new artist. You have no connections. You're very talented. How would you go about establishing your career and taking the fast track to success? I always say this because I'm the guy I hope you, I just shoot. I just tell it the way it is on a sugar coated. Yeah. You know, being talented and you can sing and rap like this. Millions of people that can do that. Absolutely.

And when I say millions of people that are talented, that's not a prerequisite to get you in. It's just your talent. You have to have more than that today. And yesterday you had to have more than that. So what do you need to have? You have to have star power, hit songs, strategy,

strategic Star power, hit songs, strategy, strategic alignments. That's what you need today. So what would be the first three actions that you would take? Sometimes it's just luck. You know, you were at the right place at the right time. And that person was there and saw you. Right. Those things still happen as well.

But even in luck, you have to be prepared. And a lot of people, when the window opened, they're just not prepared. And my sadness is, Chris, I see so many artists that's not prepared. And not only are they not prepared, their team are not prepared as well. Their management, their legal representation, they don't have the right team. So it requires a whole lot to get this right. This is a really unique industry. Someone asked me the other day, how is successful in the medical field, how is successful in music, which today if someone said you had a magic wand, I would take the medical field. If today you gave me a choice, I would rather be in a medical field again than to be back in the music industry. And why is that? I mean, what deters you back in the music industry. And why is that?

I mean, what deters you away from the music industry in 2024? First of all, it's extremely hard. Again, I'm talking to 1%. Right. To be in the 1%. Let me be specific. To be in the 1% of the music field. It's just the work that's required,

the stress that's required, you know. And you have to have tough skin. You can't read the social media stuff. And, you know, it's a different world than it was 20 years ago. Cameras are watching, eyeballs are watching everywhere you go. It's just an absolutely tough, tough industry to be at that 1%. And when you find people that are, my hat's off to you.

Because what they have, first and foremost, they're extremely passionate about what they do. And Beyonce is a prime example of that. Kobe Bryant was a prime example of that. Serena and Venus are prime examples of that. Michael Jordan, that passion, that fire, because Chris, what coexists with that, which makes these people so successful are their work ethics. Absolutely. And you can't have the work ethics unless you have the passion.

And if you don't have those two things, it doesn't matter. You can wrap it up. You're not going to make it in any industry, not just the music industry. Amen. Amen. Well, Mr. Knowles, Mr. Matthew, it's been a pleasure. So I know you have a lot of what's driving you in 2024. I know you're doing a lot of public speaking.

Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, I speak on various subjects. I'm a cancer survivor. Really, really rare, Chris. One percent. I stayed at one percent late. Male breast cancer. So I go all over the world.

I was just, I think I have 12 speaking just on that topic. And then entrepreneurship, obviously my background in entrepreneurship, and then obviously music business. And then overall, just the DNA of Achiever, what make people, what are some of the things you need attributes to be great versus good? There's a lot of people that are good at what they do. There's only a few that's great at what they do. I love it. And so I go around the world. I share my successes. I share my failures.

I believe in health and wellness. And part of that is also mental health. Amen. And we often don't want to talk about that when we talk about health and wellness. I do. I've spent years in therapy to understand myself. So, you know, that's what I do. Go to MatthewKnowles.com and book me to speak.

And I'm so proud of my family, so proud of Beyonce, how she pierced the veil in country music recently. That's pretty awesome. I actually teach a course at Cornell, aesthetic African-American aesthetic culture from spirituals to hip hop. And just for the record, there was an instrument called a kunting, A-K-O-N-T-I-N-G, that the slaves brought over. That was the first banjo.

And black people, this is Black MusicG that the slaves brought over. That was the first banjo and black people. This is black music month, the month of June. Be clear, black people were the first doing country music. I love it. I love it. Country music is actually my favorite. So I love, I love it. She's a, she's singing it.

That's great. Good, Chris. I've enjoyed just having a conversation with you, man. Oh's, she's singing it. That's great. Good, Chris. I've enjoyed just having a conversation with you, man. Oh man, it's been a good time. So Matthew, where's the, where's the best place for people to follow you on social media, follow your journey, hear more of your message? Yeah, I'm on all of them, man. I'm on all of them.

But you can go to, again, MatthewKnows.com and see my socials. Everything's right there, compact. All you have to do is click a button. I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much. And by the way, congratulations, Chris. I got to say congratulations to you, man.

Thanks, dude. You got some great news today. You going to share that? Yeah, man. We hit number 18 on the charts overall for business podcasts. And I think we're sitting right at number 160 in all podcasts in the world, all genres. So that's pretty phenomenal. Yeah. Congratulations. I'm so happy and proud and happy for you. I appreciate it. I love how your face lit up when you shared that with us.

I hope we have this opportunity to have another conversation, man. Amen, my man. Well, appreciate you so much for sharing all the truth bombs, your stories, all the great experiences. Until next time.