Next Level Pros - #110: Forget Stocks: Invest in Yourself for Maximum Returns

Episode Date: June 17, 2024

Welcome to a new episode of The Founder Podcast. In today’s episode, we have a very special guest. Meet Ryan Pineda, a real estate, entrepreneurship, and personal growth pro. Ryan shares his journey from flipping houses to launching Wealth Con, a premier event for entrepreneurs and real estate investors. He shares the secrets behind his success, the importance of investing in personal education, and innovative lead-generation strategies. Join us to learn how you can take your business and investments to the next level.  https://nextlevelhomepros.com/june25thworkshop  Highlights: "You are broke because you are not investing in your personal education." "The best way to use your money is to invest in yourself."  "Real estate pays you in five different ways: appreciation, depreciation, interest, principal buy-down, and cash flow." Timestamps: 00:00 - Multifaceted Wealth of Real Estate 01:37 - Pineda's Entrepreneurial Journey 02:19 - Concept and Impact of Wealth Con 04:46 - Importance of Personal Education 10:30 - Who Should Attend Wealth Con? 14:17 - Lead Generation for Real Estate 16:57 - Economics of Real Estate Leads 24:07 - Power of SubTo Real Estate Deals 34:41 - BTS of Hosting a Large Conference 42:29 - Ripple Effect of Branding and Events Looking to scale your business? Want to learn directly from the same team that helped me sell my last business for 9 figures? Click this link below to check out how you can work with us. https://nextlevelhomepros.com/grow-home-service-vsl  Join my community - Founder Acceleration ⁠https://www.founderacceleration.com  ⁠ Apply for our next Mastermind:h⁠ttps://www.thefoundermastermind.com ⁠  Golf with Chris h⁠ttps://www.golfwithchris.com ⁠  Watch my latest Podcast Apple- ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-founder-podcast/id1687030281S ⁠ Spotify- ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1e0cL2vI1JAtQrojSOA7D2 ⁠ YouTube - @thefounderspodcast

Real estate is crazy just from a standpoint of making money in appreciation, depreciation, interest, principal buy down and cash flow. Like there's nothing else that pays you five different ways. I mean, I came up as a real estate guy, still do real estate to this day. We'll do 100 plus deals every year. You know, obviously I got into the digital space with social media and coaching and I started other businesses and other industries. So I mean, like at the end of my core, I am an entrepreneur through and through. Real estate just happens

to be the thing I'm probably the best at. At the end of the day, WealthCon is about both. It's about for anyone who wants to build a business in real estate and grow their portfolio and everything else. And it's about entrepreneurs. If you're listening to this episode and thinking, should I be in real estate? Should I go and become educated about real estate? Head on over to WealthCon. Love to shake your hand, to see you in the crowd. Ryan's got a freaking dope crowd put together. You are broke because you are not investing in your personal education. Some people say to put your money in real estate or stocks, but the best way to use your money is to invest in yourself. How? Stop spending your money on luxuries to impress other people that frankly don't care about you. Start

paying to be in the right rooms. Start investing in coaches and events. Over the next 30 to 40 minutes, Ryan and I will convince you to take this leap into personal education. All this and more on this episode of the Founder Podcast. Ryan, super excited to have you back on the show. You're actually the first repeat guest. I know you got a lot going on. Tell us about what's new in your world. Yeah, man. Dude, we got WealthCon coming up, which you're speaking at, so excited for that. Launched a new business for lead generation for real estate investors. So I'm really excited about that. Just trying to be like you and build a company I can exit.

Let's go. So yeah, dude, real estate market, flipping houses, doing all those things. Dude, you got so much going on. You got your podcast. You're all over social media. A lot of people follow your show. It's called the Wealthy Way Podcast, right? Yep. Yep. Yeah. So that's cool. And, uh, wealth con, like tell us like what, what's the premise behind wealth con? Like who's attending what what's to be expected at an event like that? Yeah. So wealth

con, um, we've actually been holding it every quarter for the last four years. And, uh, you know, we have over a thousand people at each one, which is kind of insane. Um, but we're actually moving. I just announced last week, we're moving to just twice a year, you know, instead of four times a year. So, um, for anyone who wants to attend, uh, it's going to be this July, July 19th to the 21st. And, um, you're going to meet a lot of great entrepreneurs, real estate investors. You got people who have seven, eight, or even nine figure companies and great speakers like Chris. We got real estate guys like Brandon Turner. We got entrepreneurs like Andy Elliott. There's so much that goes into it. We even have a faith portion to it. I got a worship band that comes, I got a pastor that speaks.

We got Darius Daniels for this go around. So, um, dude, it's an Epic event with Epic speakers networking. And then we got tons of after parties and lunches and all these things. You know, there, there's two directions. I actually want to go talking about your conference. I think it's, uh, it's always interesting for people that have attended conferences to kind of know the behind the scenes, like what goes into putting on such a conference. And then the other side is like, why should somebody want to go to a conference? I, you know, it was funny. I was talking with an entrepreneur yesterday. He's going to clear

million and a half this year. So he's not like, you know, he's making pretty good money or what most people would say is, is pretty awesome. Right. And this guy had never spent any money on his personal education, right? Like never invested in coaches, never invested in a course or never like spend a thousand bucks to go to an event. And, uh, he, uh, he's actually a friend of mine. And, and, uh, I told him, I'm like, dude, you should come to an event. And he's actually a friend of mine. And I told him, I'm like, dude, you should come to my workshop. I got it going on. I'm like, you'd benefit from it. And he was like, so hesitant to spend 2000 bucks. And I'm just like, dude, $2,000? You make a million and a half a year. How are you hesitant to pull the trigger on two grand to spend a day with a bunch of awesome

entrepreneurs working on stuff? And so I guess tell us about why someone should take that initial leap or maybe even your own personal education journey that got you to the point where you're now on the other side of it and teaching people? Yeah, I think for one, for a guy like him, it's actually hard to do it because he's built it without doing it. And so for him, he's like, well, bro, I'm already killing it without this stuff. So what do I need this stuff for? So I understand his perspective. I also understand that it's more of just a scarcity mindset at the end of the day.

And it's like, I've been there. I flipped my first like 100 houses with no paying for no education and everything else. So I get it. Right. And then one day I paid for stuff and I realized like what happened in my life? What was the first thing that you paid for? First thing I paid for was um i was at growth con with cardone this was in 2018 yeah i didn't pay for a ticket somebody else gave me a ticket that's the

only reason i was there was that the russell brunson pitch yep that was literally the first thing i ever bought i was so dude you know i'm sitting there in the second row my my friend bought legit tickets and i was like bro i mean i'll come to this event in the second row let's go yeah i'm like let's go so you know what's crazy about that event is you know all these guys that are now friends today that's my first time ever hearing about them and it was crazy watching the people in the stands because they're going nuts for these guys and i'm like who are these guys like they're just freaking like I've never heard of any of them. You know, I'm looking at like real celebrities as people I know. So I'm like, who's Russell Brunson? Who's Bradley?

Who's freaking any Ed Milet? I don't know any of these guys. And now they're all buddies. But yeah, Russell's pitch was so good. It took a guy like me who was like, bro, I don't. I'm good. Yeah. To like, oh, dang, bro, I don't, I'm good. Yeah. Um, to like, Oh dang, dude, I don't even know what I'm buying, but I'm gonna buy it because that was so good. And it was like three grand or something. And I just bought it on the spot. And then at that

point, once my pockets were opened, I was like, all right, I'm ready to spend. And then, you know, Ty Lopez came up, I bought something from him. Um, other crap I bought. And I was just like, I'm in, you know, it's funny. You know, what's funny about that conference. It was like, I actually didn't love it. Right. Like there, there was so, it was such a pitch fest, but there were like three people that really stuck out to me and you actually brought up all their names. Right. Uh, so Russell Brunson, Ed Milet, and, uh, who did you just mention? Just Tai Lopez. Tai Lopez, dude, all three of those guys freaking crushed. Right. Like, uh, dude, the, the crazy thing with Russell, which you experienced is we were already in the ClickFunnels

world. We were already like, uh, part of like their monthly subscription, uh, using their software and everything. I literally ran out, called my business partner. I'm like, dude, I don't know why, but we need to spend like another three grand.

Like we already have it, but we already, we already have it. But whatever he just sold me on is way better and way cooler. And I need it. And dude, that was the, that was like one of like the craziest

emotions I've ever felt towards buying something in my life. Oh yeah, dude. So, and I'll say this, like, so I bought it. I didn't know what I was buying. Just like you, it was that good. You don't even know, but you're like, I need it. Whatever he sold, I need it. And I never used ClickFunnels. I didn't use like any of it. I read the book that it came with. And literally just from reading the book, I could have bought for 20 bucks, expert secrets. I think it was. I was like, oh, I get it. And that book led me to writing my book, Flip Your Future, like literally two months later. I wrote my book. I built a course. I did it all. And, um, that started my like, you know, guru career. Um, so yeah, dude, like that was the first experience I would. And then that's the point I would have never went

down this path of education. Had I not, you know, bought that thing, I would've just kept flipping houses, which is fine. I was doing great, but it opened up a whole new thing that I was resistant to. And it is a floodgates, you know, like when I, when I spent my first money, so my, my first money was back in what year was that? 20. It was actually, uh, so I, I'd gone to a few events, 500 bucks here, 500 bucks there, you know, books. And I actually spent like a thousand bucks on like a thing of CDs back in like 2009. Right. Yeah. Like $2,500 was my first big purchase. And, and I did it in 2017. There was this guy that was touting that like he made a million bucks in three months, you know, using Facebook ads. And I was like, dude, I want to understand Facebook

ads. And so I, but I was so hesitant to like pull out the credit card. I call my partner. I'm like, dude, I'm going to do this. Should I? And anyways, swipe the card. That was my floodgates open right from there. I mean, that's what led to us like launching our business, doing online marketing, because I figured out Facebook ads from that. And then it was just like, doing online marketing, because I, I figured out Facebook ads from, from that. And then it was just like, okay, what else can I spend my money on? Right. Where can I swipe my card? What mastermind can I be a part of? What event can I go and attend? Who, what room can I hang out? VIPC, whatever it is. And so, yeah, it's just crazy. Once you, once you go down that journey and, since that time, I've spent a million bucks on my personal education.

Yeah. Dude, I mean, and obviously it's worked out for you and you still do it. And so I guess why should somebody or who is the target audience for WealthCon? Like who, what situation is somebody sitting in listening to this episode that says, ah, I need to go and hang out with Chris and Ryan over at WealthCon. You know, what's interesting about WealthCon and people have told me that this is bad, but then people tell me it's good is that it's not singularly focused, right? So, I mean, I came up as a real estate guy, still do real estate to this day. We'll do a hundred plus

deals every year. And, um, you know, obviously I got into the digital space with social media and coaching and I've started other businesses and other industries. So, I mean, like at the end of my core, I am an entrepreneur through and through real estate just happens to be the thing I'm probably the best at. And, um, you know, at the end of the day, uh, wealth con is about both. It's about for anyone who wants to build a business in real estate and grow their portfolio and everything else. And it's about entrepreneurs. Cause you know, you're not necessarily, I know you do real estate, but you're not known as a real estate guy, but look, you're speaking, right? Right. So we, we have great speakers for real estate. We have great speakers who are just pure

entrepreneurs. And the thing is, entrepreneurs who make money need a place to put it anyways. So they're inevitably drawn to real estate one way or another, even if it's not their core business. I agree. I think everybody should or eventually will have some level of connection to real estate, right? At a very minimum, their own personal residence, which I don't believe is an incredible asset. But, you know, personally, real estate is what's driven like the behind the scenes of my whole career, right? I have 130 doors, nothing like, you know, Grant Cardone or anything else. But like, it's always been something to be able to be an incredible vehicle to go and become wealthy from.

And so, you know, whether the connection is real estate sounds like this, there's a huge target towards really any type of entrepreneur. Is that correct? Yeah, 100%, man. We get people all the time who have, like I said, they're like you, they're digital marketers, they're coaches, they are service providers. And then they will get into, you know, all the things we're talking about with building brand, with increasing sales, with making better offers, all those things that help any business. And then they will hear about the real estate stuff too. And they're like, dude, I would, I would invest in that. Dude, I, I freaking love real estate, you know, sticks and bricks. There is no better way to, to build wealth. And I know there's, I know you real estate, you know, sticks and bricks. There is no better way to

build wealth. And I know you teach a lot of creative ways to be able to go and acquire new real estate with not a lot of money out of pocket or other people's money or whatnot. I've been more of the traditional investor from a standpoint of take money, bury it in. But frankly, dude, I've gotten such an incredible return over the years being in real estate. I calculated it about a year or two ago of what my annual return has been on real estate. And it's consistently been between 30 and 35%. I mean- Or the beat. I mean, when you're talking about doubling your money every two and a half years, the law of 72, it's wild. And for those that don't know what the law of 72, you take any interest rate divided into 72 and that's how many years it takes for your money to double. Yeah, dude, real estate is crazy just from a standpoint of making money in appreciation,

depreciation, interest, principal buy down and cashflow. There's nothing else that pays you five different ways. And so that's what always has intrigued me. So if you're listening to this episode and thinking like, should I be in real estate? Should I go and become educated about real estate? Like, dude, head on over to WealthCon. Love to shake your hand, see you in the crowd. Ryan's got a freaking dope crowd put together. Yeah. Yeah. You guys are gonna love it. Sweet, man. You've also launched a business in the lead generation space. Tell us more about that. Yeah, dude. So, I mean, like the last decade, I mean, I've done my own marketing and, you know, gotten deals every which way you can imagine. You know, we've done direct mail, cold calls, text,

PPC, you know, TV commercials. We've done them all. And, you know, as time has gone on, you know this with marketing, things are... They're hot for a minute and then they get saturated and then the ROI starts to go down. And so you're like, all right, where's the next big thing? And I actually felt that way about social media five years ago. I felt that way about TikTok and YouTube. And during COVID, that was when I got started. I was like, dude, this is such a big opportunity for marketing, for myself and my businesses and raising capital, whatever the case is. And sure enough, it was the correct decision. But I've come to that crossroads again recently. I've run TV commercials and spent millions of

dollars to get deals and motivated sellers. And, you know, I just kind of started to look at the return and the cost per lead. And I'm like, dude, we got to do something different. Like, this is just not trending the right way. Right. And so I just looked at it all and I was like, dude, why am I not using social media to target sellers? Because I use it for everything else. You know, we spent millions on Facebook ads and everything else to go fill wealth con to, to get students to do businesses

and other industries. But I always had this bias to not do social media for, um, home owners, because I've always been told it doesn't work. That's just been the thing in our industry. Like, dude, I, we can never get Facebook ads to work. So finally I was like, you know what? Maybe just maybe they suck. You know, maybe it's a skill problem, not, you know, uh, a marketing problem. Cause let's think about it. Logically, where are the most people they're on social media, hands down, you know, I'm marketing on TV where it's dying every day. So where are they going? They're on social media. And so I just started doing it and testing it myself. And I spent months just kind of like cracking it. And then all of a sudden, you know, I'm just

seeing like, Oh dude, our cost per leads are really low over here. You know, there are, you know, let's say in Vegas anyways, uh, we might spend 500 bucks for a TV lead or $800 for a PPC lead. That's freaking really expensive. That is so much. You know? And so you better convert. Now, granted, if you get a deal, it can make you 30 grand, 40 grand. Right.

But you better be converting one in three, one in four. Well, no, not even, dude. Like the goal at those leads is convert one in 10. Like if you can convert one in 10 and I guess, yeah. 10, I guess 10,000, uh, CAC. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, you, you make 30, 40, you'll be square.

Yeah. So, but dude, I mean, that's like, uh, and you better be freaking really good to close one of 10. Right. And, um, you know, anyways, I started doing on Facebook and I just saw like our CPLs were one 50 and very similar lead quality. And I'm like, bro, wow, this is it. Yeah. It's inbound, you know, inbound is inbound. I mean, if you're talking same lead quality and able to have same close ratio. So now all of a sudden your, your cat

goes from 10 grand down to 1500 to 2000 bucks. Yeah. It's phenomenal. Yep. So, you know, at the end of the day, we will see as time goes on, cause I have, you know, four years of data for one versus, you know, I'll say four months of data. So, you know, we'll see as, as things normalize, but the early results are just so much better. So anyways, I did it for myself.

Then I did beta testing for some students, same things, you know, they're like, dude, leads are, they're, they're very similar to what we get with direct mail and PPC and these other things, but yeah, there's significantly less. And, um, so anyways, it went good. Um, launched it to the masses a couple of weeks ago, signed a bunch of clients. And, um, you know, my, my premise, the reason it's such a good thing to, at least from my perspective and their perspective is it's very scalable because, um, we use the same app. It's me. So I make all these ads for myself and, um, like I'm just trying to do them for me to make money. And then it just occurred to me, like, why not just run these in their markets and give them the leads? And so sure enough, that's what

we do. So it's very scalable and predictable versus like other agencies when it's like, all right, Chris, I need you to film 20 ads this week. And we got to go optimize your landing page and this and that. It's like, nah, dude, like you'll have leads tomorrow. So are these leads for a wholesale real estate wholesaling or what, what is it for? Yep. Yep. So like basically it's just people saying, Hey, we want to, you know, you want to cash offer for your home, you know, fill out the form. That's awesome. That's awesome. Have you,

have you messed around with the sub two market at all from a, you know, capitalizing on these people having these low interest rates or anything like that? Yeah. You know what I realized in the lead gen business is you got to actually coach them up on sales too, because if they don't, if they don't convert, they'll stop paying retainers and leads and all that. So, uh, you know, that was one of the things I learned during the beta testing. I'm like, guys, how long do you take him to hit your lead again? Two hours, try five minutes. Like, you know, so you, you got to coach people up, but, um, how long do you take him to hit your lead again? Two hours? Try five minutes.

Like, you know, so you got to coach people up. But the next one would be exit strategies. And so if you have one exit strategy where you're just given a low ball cash offer, there are people that will do it. But man, you're missing out on probably 80% of what you could be making because you don't have exit strategy. And so, um, you know, with, um, all of our clients that, uh, it's called lead kitchen, by the way, um, with all of our clients, we had to do a weekly call teaching them how to do things like sub two and things like we call novation listings. They're kind of like net listings. Right. Um, and that has really changed the game for them and my company. I mean, we do a ton of it. So for, for listeners that have no idea what net listings or, or those types of

listings are like, what give us more context to that? Yeah. So like a lot of people think net listings are illegal, which isn't true. Um, so a net listing would be like a typical realtor. They usually charge a percentage for their commission, right? So they might charge 3% to list it. Buyer gets 3%. So it's 6% fee, right? Well, a net listing would be, yo, Chris, how much do you really want for your property? At the end of the day, when it's all said and done, no fees, nothing. And you're like, bro, 500K. If I got 500K, I'm square. I'm like, great sign this. You're going to get 500 K. Now I would only do that if I know that I'm going to sell it for say

580 or something like that. And so what happens is if I sell it for 580, I still have all the costs. I still have the realtor fees. I still have the closing costs and whatever repairs and stuff. But let's say that all of that is only 40 grand. So net out for it. Yeah. So 580 minus 40 is 540. I told you I'm going to give you 500. So I'm going to make 40 grand. Now, the reason this is important is because in a typical wholesale or a typical wholesale or a typical whatever, you can't pay 500K for a property that's worth 580 just because your costs are too much. You're going to have all those fees, your hard money costs.

You're probably going to have to put some repairs. You will not make money. But in this scenario, you can make 40 grand without taking on any risk because you never actually buy it. Right. That makes sense. The old net listing. So is that a pretty common practice in the industry?

No, it's extremely uncommon. And we don't even call it a net listing because it's not. It's just an hour agreement that, hey, we're buying your house for 500 grand. We have the ability to market it on the MLS to get a buyer. And if we do that, we'll pay all the fees and everything associated with that. You're getting your 500. And so when it comes time to close, basically whatever that difference is, is our cost for basically doing all the deal and putting it together. It's basically like, yeah, you could call it, it's called lots of things. Like some people would call it like a

notice of interest. And so I'm releasing my interest in this property for all the work we did. And so they're paying me 40 K to do so. So are these examples of, of things that you do to train some of your clients when they come on and they're buying your leads or, or when they come and attend your conference or that type of thing? Exactly. Because like, not a lot of people know about that. Like it's, yeah, it's easy to go to that same deal and be like, yeah, dude, I'll give you four 50. And it's like, okay, yeah, the numbers make sense. But what do you do when they're, they won't take four 50. You just say, it's not a deal. And you say the lead sucks. Or do you say, oh, actually, oh, you want 500? We got a way to do that.

Right. Now, it's interesting. Real estate is so unique. And I mean, there's so many ways to get creative, especially, you know, we made reference to the sub two. It's an interesting market that we're in right now where the fact that like the same mortgage at 500,000 will get them only like a $700,000 home, right? Same payment, right? So not a lot of people... And so walking away from a mortgage rate in a traditional transaction is like a terrible idea. And so being able to figure out how to preserve that low 2%, 3% interest rate is highly advantageous to both the buyer and the seller.

Yeah. Yeah. So for those who don't know, a sub two is basically you're taking the property subject to the existing mortgage, meaning I'm not paying off the mortgage. In fact, the only reason I want to buy this house is because I want your mortgage. And it is great because there's, you know, I think I forgot the stat, but it was like at one point, 50% of homes had a 3% mortgage or less. Crazy. And it's like, dude, those people ain't selling, you know, like, and if they do that, that mortgage is a great asset. And so they might as well sell it with that mortgage if they want to really maximize. Yeah, I'm not sure we've ever been in such a crazy time for interest rate disparity. I guess you may be in the 80s when interest rates got up to like 16% and people a few years prior had been locked in into, call it a 7% or 8%. They probably had a similar type thing.

But no access to internet, no access to information, right? Things have drastically changed in the way that the market is right now. And we're actually operating under the thesis that because people have these locked in low interest rates, a lot of people aren't going to sell their homes and they're going to want to continue to invest into their current location. So like home services, that there will continue to be more money poured into home services, new windows, new additions, new remodels, or those types of things. Because the only way to upgrade your home is to upgrade your current home, not flip into the next home up, right? Because of the disparity in, in interest rates.

So it's like, it's a, it's a unique economy that we're sitting in. Yeah. It's really interesting, especially when you're, you know, in the real estate space specifically, because dude, you know, things got, you know, we got hammered, uh, when rates just doubled, right? Everyone did. Realtors, lenders, investors. It was just like, dude, activity just stopped. Yeah. And then now, obviously, activity is back going, but there's less volume just overall because it's like, dude, people don't want to sell. That would have normally been sellers. And it's so interesting because had the, if, if, if let's just say rates were normal and you know, there wasn't this big discrepancy between what people have a rate for and what they are you know, getting them now that you would have seen way more sellers and you might've

saw prices actually drop just because it's like, Oh bro, like I'd rather just sell now. And then, you know, I'll go buy a house again later when prices drop. And my, I know my rate's going to be the same, but no, that's not what's happening. Like people, 50% are like, no, dude, I'm never selling. I can't afford anything if I sell. And so prices just stay high because it's like, there's just nothing for sale. No, for sure. Have you, have you guys explored, uh, teaming up with like home services to be able to like self liquidate your, your offer in any type of way to, to be able to recapture more for the same lead? Dude, you know, I've actually thought about this a lot and I'd be

curious if you had ideas. So I got a lot of, I, so like, I mean, realtors are one thing because they're, they're like helping the person sell the home, find their next home. And so like realtors have a lot of ways to bolt on different services. Like, you know, I had a call with a guy for solar and, you know, I know you obviously know solar better than anyone. And, um, but like solar was, uh, you know, it's like, bro, like they're going to get hit up by solar guys anyway. You might as well make a commission referring them to solar guy. And I'm like, that makes perfect sense for the realtor. 100%. Um, but like for the real estate investor, right. I mean, I'm going to these sellers. It's usually a one-time deal. You know, this is not like a realtor where we are going to go get five more deals out of them from their friends, their family. Like it just, it's not how our business works, you know?

So we're trying to get the deal. We're trying to get it for as low as possible or get a list at whatever the case is. And I thought about like, man, how could I self liquidate my lead cost out the gate? Not just relying on the actual flip or the wholesale. Right. So I thought about like selling consultations with the, you know, it's like, all right, you applied for this. Hey, for a hundred bucks, we'll advise you, you know, on just different ways to sell your home. We'll guarantee to get the home sold for a hundred bucks, you know, like we'll give you different options. Like just some form

of that kind of offer. I thought about that. Right. Um, I thought about, yeah, like partnering up with some other service provider where it aligns with our offer. And so it's like, okay, you know, can we split the lead cost with these people and, you know, pass off the leads to them? Like, those are all definitely thoughts in my mind. Yeah. It's interesting. I think there's, there's really two different targets there. You got like the lead that isn't necessarily going to turn into a flip for you. Right. So that homeowner is, is some level of lead. But then you also have the lead of, if you do flip it, the new buyer, right? And so the new buyer is potentially, whether they're an investor or an end user,

that's going to actually occupy the house, right? There's something there. There is an interested person in acquiring new services of some sort. Right. And there, I'll just tell you, like the, the issue that we run into on the home service side is the cost of acquisition is so high. So, so high. Right. Like, I mean, as social media leads have continued to climb up, like it's not uncommon to spend

four or $5,000 to acquire a new customer. And that's for one service. There are so many services inside the home that people pay anywhere from 500 to $5,000 to acquire. Right. And so like when you're talking about like, and this is the reason why the cost of these services continues to rise. It's not because the cost of goods keeps getting more expensive. It's literally the cost of acquisition keeps getting more expensive. And so when you're talking about roofs and windows and HVAC and, you know, hybrid water heaters and, you know, just solar and all the things, dude, we're talking about like

potentially 20 to $50,000, just an acquisition costs for a bunch of different services for like $300,000 worth of services. Yep. It's so anyways, I, I just see there being a unique, a unique opportunity for, uh, for your business. Yeah. Like with our buyer. So, I mean, I'm talking this through because I'd love to figure it out. So like the end buyer of our deals would be investors mainly. Sorry. And so most of those investors, they're not, you know, they don't care about any of these home services. They already got their contractors. They're getting this thing ready to fix and flip. And, you know, that end buyer who they sell it to would then be the right target.

But, you know, we don't have that person's info. That's not, you know, our lead. So I think about like, okay, what could you sell the seller once they've sold their house? Because now they're moving somewhere. Right. You know, and maybe they're going to rent. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

So you, you have two ends to every transaction, two, even three ends, right? Like, uh, you know, potentially, and the reality is if an investor is buying your home, yeah, they may have their contractors for certain fixes or whatever else, but guess what? They're going to be selling that to somebody that's going to potentially be investing in that. And that investor may not have that services side set up. And so like figuring out a three-way split on the cost of acquisition, you know, I mean, dude, there's, there's just so many ways that you can ride that one location and the new and the previous homeowner into their new location. I don't know, dude, there's, there's just a lot,

as you're realizing there's a lot of money in lead generation, right? Like just, just people that are interested in spending money on products and services. And the thing that they're most interested in is their home. And, and I, I thought about this too, with, even though, even if we don't do a deal with the sellers, which would be the majority of the leads, right? Because even if we are so good, we closed one out of 10, that's 90%. And, you know, so let's say 90% plus of the leads will not be monetized in any way on our end. And so I'm like, okay, but we do know they want to sell their house.

So as a data company, what are these leads worth to other service companies? And then like, how does that make my company more valuable beyond what we're just making, you know, from retainer and profit split and all that? Yeah. Or like, yeah, things from the standpoint of like, they want to sell their house, but they don't want to sell it to a wholesaler. Right. And so like selling it to a home service, a lead to a home service company that says, Hey, we have a way to make your home more marketable. Right. Like we can come in, we can paint your house. We can put on the new roof. We can, you know, update X, Y, and Z that will make your home more marketable so that you're actually being approached by retail buyers rather than, rather

than the wholesalers. Right. Like, I mean, dude, this is, there's, there's so much opportunity there. Yeah. I'm with you, dude. I, uh, I'm trying to figure it out. Cause yeah, to the point, that's why I ended up in this lead generation spot in the beginning with, because dude, CAC, CAC ain't getting any smaller, you know, like it, I don't see it. I don't see it dropping. Right. Yeah. You just got to figure out how to liquidate the the cost of acquisition even more. Right. Like, yeah. And so very cool. Very cool. Going back to something I briefly touched on earlier. So with your with your conference, love to like dive in a little bit more before we end the show a little bit more like behind

the scenes, what's it like building a thousand person conference? Like, like what are the behind the scenes? Are you doing all the acquisition or, and, and ticket sales yourself, you hiring out a lot of that, like what initially got you into the space? Love to know a little bit more about that. Yeah. So, you know, like I said, I I've been doing this every quarter now since COVID and, um, it's first started as just like a little mastermind for our students. That's what it was. It was eight people at my house. I was like, we should all get together. This would be great. And then we did it. And then next one was at my office and, you know, we had like 30 people. And then the next one was the office. Again, we had like 80 people. Then the next one,

I was like, dude, we need a bigger space. And so we rented a spot downtown. Then I was like, dude, we're going to actually need to rent a hotel for this. You know, we're going to have like 150 people. Um, I should probably sell tickets to this because I don't want to just pay this hotel cost. And so, you know, I started selling tickets finally, because before it was always just like a fulfillment event. And then, you know, I started selling tickets finally, because before it was always just like a fulfillment event. And then, you know, it went from 250 to 300 to 400 to 500. And then, you know, I guess our first big one we did at the Mandalay Bay and I had the Hormozy speak. And this was, you know, they were already getting pretty big.

This was like late 22. But, you know, before even they got to the point where they're at today. And so, you know, like 700 people at the Mandalay Bay. And then the next one, I had Cody Sanchez and we had a thousand people at the Marat. And by the way, they're all in Vegas. I'm just lazy. Then I had my boy Lewis Howe speak at one. Then I had Ed Milet.

Then I had, you know, Tim Tebow, Tim Gray. I've just I've had so many amazing people at these events. And so, yeah, we've been holding them every quarter. And so first thing people ask is like, bro, like how? Okay. Cause, and Cardone actually is somebody who helped me realize how crazy it was because he goes, bro. So first he was asking me this on my podcast. He was like, how many people are from out of state? And I go at least 80%. He goes, dude, think about that, man. These people are spending that much money to fly there, go there. Like that is a qualified person. This ain't some local event where they're paying 30 bucks to go to it. He goes, bro, people don't even realize they couldn't even give away a thousand tickets to get people to come to an event. And I was like, dude, I never thought

about that, but it's true, right? Like people have meetups and stuff all the time. How many people show up to the meetup? Right. You know, 20 people, like if you have a hundred person meetup, like that's a big meetup and that's free. Right. And so to think about, I was like, wow, when you put it that way, it is crazy what we're doing. So how does the behind the scenes work? Well, you know, it's always in Vegas. So I'm lazy and people don't have a problem coming to Vegas. I'm like, I want to go home at night and see my kids and be good. So it's always in Vegas. The team just at this point, it's so dialed in with just, we know what our costs are. We know what the venues charge. We know how to not get screwed

by what is a venue what is a venue cost i'd love to like just know someone yeah um i think vegas from what i've heard is a lot more expensive than other spots but overall i'll just say with av with the food and beverage minimums the ball ballroom, everything. We're usually all in around 350 grand for our hard cost to throw one of these events. Got it. Um, and then, you know, we got our marketing costs and so I'll usually spend like 200 grand each quarter to, to promote it. And then, you know, you got sales team and commissions and all that. So dude, I mean, yeah, we're, we're into events for, you know, 600 grand. Um, you know, at least. Are you, are you ever, are you making money on the front end? Cause I know most people that run these types of events, they're losing money on the front end in hopes

to make money on the back end. How, how have you been able to run it? Yeah, I would say our goal is to try and break even on the front end, but it's rare. Um, you know, for example, we'll, you know, let's just say we, we, we know we're all in at 600 K. Um, we'll, we'll routinely sell four or 500 K of tickets. So it's still like pretty good. Right. Um, and then, you know, whatever you sell at the event, coaching services leads, right. You know, we know we're going to, we've never lost money on an event which is good because a lot of people do right yeah dude i i had a i had a buddy put on a few thousand person event it was like it was like 4 000 people and dude he didn't have a back-end offer and i'm like

dude you're gonna lose money i'm like dude what are you doing like like like he was telling me three weeks because i was speaking at the event and he's like, oh yeah, dude, we don't, we're not pitching anything. We don't want to pitch it. I'm like, dude, what are you talking about? Are you crazy? Like, dude, you got all these qualified buyers that are begging to give you money and you're not going to pitch them anything. And, and so he ended up coming up with like some offer that was literally being like pitched in the hallways on a computer screen that was like, they had 30 days to expire to take advantage of this offer. And I'm just like, dude, what in the world? And yeah, I think he, I think

he lost like 800,000 bucks on, on the event. And it's just like oh man dude come on so where do you want to if you want to run an event you've got to have a back-end offer you got to have something that that you can liquidate so yeah no 100 and um that's good yeah i'll just say like um you know for me i i uh you know we pitch obviously because i'm not gonna go lose money that's number one of course um but number two you know it's hard to also quantify the event itself now for us we hold events more frequently than basically everyone but card, let's just say. Right. And, um, I, I'll just give you a perfect example. So had a guy on my pod, um, recently who he paid for one-on-one and, um, he's trying to build his brand and everything else. And, uh, you know, paid a lot of money for that. And I go, he goes,

Hey, I just want to kind of tell you how I found out about you and everything. Okay. How'd you do it? And, um, he was like, well, I, you know, had seen your stuff a couple of years ago and, you know, I just, obviously I liked it and everything else. And then he's like, and then I saw an episode you did with Brandon Dawson, who's Cardone's partner. And, um, he's like, bro, that was just like one of the best podcasts I've ever seen. And he's like, at the time I was getting ready to sell my business. He sold his business for a lot. And, um, he's like, and so, uh, when, when I heard it, I was just like, dude, that, that like was just the best I've ever heard for somebody to interview that way. Um, so I really respect you on that front. And he said, you know, and so that was kind of that. Um, then I sold my business and, um, you know, I had seen ads for wealth con, like for the last year, he's like,

but to be truthful, he's like, I didn't even know that was your event. I just thought it was a cool event that like, you know, it was always going. I knew the event, but I didn't know you held it. And I was like, wow, that's crazy. You know, they're like, you know, at the end of the day, it just shows that people just assume no one knows you. Right. And so he's like, it was crazy. So like I'd seen the events. So then he goes, I was on a flight. I was sitting in first class and coming home from Vegas. And two people were talking about how they just got done at wealth con and how it was so great and crazy and amazing. And he's like, from there, that was when I just went to the website and just put my information to, to go like, learn about the tickets, not even anything else. And then sure enough, you know, he's a one-on-one

guy. Yeah. Yeah. Within literally within a week, you know? And so it's hard to truly quantify the impact of events because yes, you have like, Hey, these are the tickets we sold. This is what we sold, you we sold at the actual event. But I do know it brings a ton of brand value long term. Yeah. And that really can be said about everything branding, right? It's really hard to quantify the value of a podcast. It's really hard to qualify the value of paid advertising.

It's really hard to quantify the value of hosting an event or giving back or just really anything, right? Like the ripple effect in this world is just unreal. Yeah, dude. I mean, and that's what it comes down to. It's like, if you just get value, you may not see the return on it instantly, but you will in the long haul. Yeah. Love it. Love it. Dude. Super excited about what you got going on. WealthCon is going to be sweet. I'm excited to be on the stage with you, hang out. There's going to be fantastic crowd. If you guys are looking for tickets to the event, we're going to drop a link right in the show notes. I'd be able to come and join us. What were the dates again down there in Vegas?

Yep. July 19th to the 21st. Wealthcon.org is the website. So super easy. Super easy. Cool, man. Thanks for jumping on. Until next time.