Next Level Pros - #128: A company that helps you automate your profits, isn’t making profit.

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

Welcome to a new episode of Next Level Pros! In this episode, we're joined by Andrew Schultz, a budding entrepreneur who's navigating the challenges of turning his marketing firm, Profit Automation, into a profitable business despite its current unprofitable state. We'll dive deep into the issues holding Andrew back, including a detailed analysis of his financials and marketing strategies, along with some personal obstacles that are impacting his professional progress. Apply to be on the show: https://forms.gle/hwDijQPFyKCEtHNs8  Highlights: "I mean, when you asked me what my biggest challenge was, I don't know what I'm selling."   "Your secret sauce is identifying what the problem is around their customers in their pipeline, so you can pull them into action." "I will help increase your conversion, or I will add another 2% to your conversion, or you don't pay anything." "I haven't done a whole lot of marketing or talked to a lot of people about it, so I find it hard to believe that you have enough data to say that this doesn't work." Timestamps: 0:00:00 Profit Automation is not turning a profit 0:04:13 Describing the Business 0:06:03 Explaining the Lead Conversion Offering 0:08:15 Identifying the Biggest Challenge - Packaging the Offer 0:13:25 The Pipeline Crisis and how to fix it 0:19:21 Addressing the Perception of Free vs. Paid Offers 0:20:24 Exploring Performance-Based Pricing Options 0:25:47 Shifting from Scarcity to Abundance Mindset 0:27:08 Comparing Eliminating Downside vs. Eliminating Risk 0:41:00 Identifying Strengths and Weaknesses in the Business 0:48:30 Refocusing on Sales and Marketing as the Priority 0:55:47 Balancing Personality Types within the Team 0:57:41 Shifting Mindset from Home Runs to Consistent At-Bats 1:03:29 Overcoming the Need for Certainty 1:11:08 Adopting a Scientific Approach to Testing and Measuring 1:17:07 Final Plan and Closing Thoughts Looking to scale your business? Want to learn directly from the same team that helped me sell my last business for 9 figures? Click this link below to check out how you can work with us. https://nextlevelhomepros.com/grow-home-service-vsl  Join my community - Founder Acceleration ⁠https://www.founderacceleration.com  ⁠ Apply for our next Mastermind: h⁠ttps://www.thefoundermastermind.com ⁠  Golf with Chris: h⁠ttps://www.golfwithchris.com ⁠  Watch my latest Podcast Apple- ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-founder-podcast/id1687030281S ⁠ Spotify- ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1e0cL2vI1JAtQrojSOA7D2 ⁠ YouTube - @thefounderspodcast

So the name of your company is Profit Automation, and what I'm looking at here on financials is an unprofitable business. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, so far. I'll be honest, like looking at your site and listening to your videos, it's a little confusing. So would you say the reason why you haven't spent money on paid or done affiliate marketing

is because you just don't know what you're offering? Yeah. I have spent... You don't know what you're offering? Yeah, I have spent. You don't know what you're offering or you don't know how to package it? Yeah, I don't know how to package it yet. I mean, when you asked me what my biggest challenge was, I don't know what I'm selling. And I'm just going to shoot you straight if you're good with that. Hey everyone, today we have a special episode with Andrew Schultz. Andrew is a budding entrepreneur that has an offer that helps increase marketing for SaaS companies. In today's episode, we dive

deep into what is holding him back. We look at his financials, we look at his marketing and sales strategy, along with a few different personal things that are limiting him on this episode of Next Level Pros. All right, Andrew, thanks for making the trip. Excited to have you. Excited to be here. Yeah, man. So, you know, we've got a bunch of information here about your business. We've got to appreciate you putting this all together. Excited. So you're the founder of Profit Autom awesome awesome can I can I point out the the funny aspect about that yeah so the name of your company is profit automation and what I'm looking at here on financials is an unprofitable business is that right yeah yeah so

far so far good good I I, I thought when I was reading it over, I thought it was kind of funny. I'm like, well, hey, this is funny a little bit, but we're going to help you get this thing profitable. So you've been running this business how long? About 20 months. 20 months. February 2023. Cool. Is this a full-time side gig? What is it? Full-time. Full-time gig. And are you the only income winner in the house or does your wife work as well? She works very part-time. Okay. So it's mostly me. So my question first and foremost would be like, how are you pulling that off? Like we have, so we, I got fired from my job in january 2023 okay we had gotten a heloc just before that happened which allowed me to kind of run in this direction without yeah quite as much

stress as we would have had yeah so yeah so because, what we're, what we're looking at here, um, you have kind of a basic cash in cash out, uh, type statement, right? Um, and it looks like when you're, when you're referring to cash out here, so this isn't like your typical financials, uh, what is that expenses or is that personal expenses? Like, or are those all businesses expenses that's everything so that's income for the family and any business expenses is it income for the family but is it business expenses or family expenses as well not family expenses just business so i pay right i pay myself in the in out of the business for family expenses those aren't but those don't come on business accounting okay so does the cash out include what you get what you pay yourself yes

okay how much are you paying yourself right now uh it's different every month yeah as you might be able to see from these but uh i try to i try to do a five thousand dollar payment okay and then at the end of the month to look at you know what the financials are and if i can do another one what's what's your uh how much were you making your previous job i was a salesperson um i was there for eight months the the base was 105 000 got it for eight months i didn't have any sales. So it was just that. Okay. So tell the listeners a little bit more like what exactly you do. So Profit Automation is a middle of the funnel focused marketing agency.

Okay. I call it a growth firm because we're more focused on not just a commoditized marketing service, but bringing specialized marketing and platforms to SaaS companies to help them grow. The niche focus right now is product-led growth companies who have a founder brand or a strong corporate brand that drives a lot of traffic for them. And we take the free users that they've generated which are basically for a company like that they're just leads and we're converting them into paid users got it which is generally a pretty low metric for those businesses so i'm going to pull up um i got uh right now so the name of your website is what get profit automation get profit

dot com automation dot com we're screen sharing it here so i looked at this earlier um it's got you know there there's definitely uh it's well put together. So when your target audience, like, do they know what you're talking about when you say mid-funnel? Yeah. Okay. So like, who are you, who your main, like? It would be a CMO or a marketing leader or a demand gen leader. So they could be, they could have different titles. Sometimes there's not a CMO depending on the size of the business.

But it's somebody who's in charge of marketing at a SaaS company. Got it. Got it. So somebody in charge of marketing at a SaaS company. And how are you getting your clients right now? Every client that I have signed up so far in my business has been through word of mouth. Okay. So let me get this straight.

So you teach people how to turn leads that they already have into clients. Is that right? Mm-hmm. That's just kind of the basic of it. Yeah. Okay. So I'll be honest. Looking at your site and listening to your videos, it's a little confusing, right?

And it may speak perfectly to your target audience, but potentially your target audience is broader and there's like more people that you could go and serve, you know? And I think any of the broader audience would probably be a little bit confused. I understand most marketing lingo. I consider myself a pretty well-educated CMO type person. Even there was like, I think this is what he's trying to say. It seemed a little complex. Can you explain your sales process? You're talking to a CMO or one of these guys what does that conversation look like how long does that take to land a client so i just pivoted to this market this year

and i've really only signed up one client in this market it's a really good one. We had one conversation and he was interested. We connected on LinkedIn. I commented on something. I've been following him for a while. Yeah. Made a comment on one of his posts. He said, hey, yeah, we should talk. And we had a conversation and he was interested, introduced me to his team and we started working together right away so right now i mean you're based on on your monthly numbers the numbers have kind of been all over the board yeah right i mean you've got two thousand month one nine thousand month two ten thousand then down to six then eight ten four six right it's kind of like just boom, boom, boom, boom. And I think you kind of shared a little bit of this, like you don't necessarily have like a, a package or an offer really dialed

in. Would you say that? Is that correct? Correct. Okay. Yeah. I think that's my biggest challenge is not having, I mean, when you asked me what my biggest challenge was, number one was, I don't know what I'm selling. Yeah. Being a little hard on myself there. Like, I understand the value that I bring. But as you mentioned, I mean, this website is kind of a new iteration. There are clients like the guy that I just mentioned, he just got it already. And he had some of the background that you had.

He knew some of the marketing styles that right i do whereas a lot of the people that are in my market don't and so that's why it's like a lot of it's coming through referrals like if they get it they get it and then we talk and we work together but i'm looking for something a little bit more repeatable let me ask some questions on, I think, clients. And then let's go to unit economics. So how many clients do you currently have? Two. How many have you had this year total?

Five. Five? Yeah. How many have you reached out to? How many you've tried selling, yeah. So reached out to would be the wrong term. I haven't reached out to a lot of people. I've had inbound probably five more. You're saying five people reached out to you. Just because they know that you're offering something or how did they like

why would they reach out to you? They came through my funnel and how are they getting to your funnel are you running ads three of those no i don't run ads three of those came when when one of my clients who has a lot of uh he has a lot of followers on linkedin he posted that he was working with me and i got three meetings on my calendar right away got it so so so essentially you know you got you have word of mouth has been pretty much pretty much it yeah okay so i mean really it comes down to two major issues in the business one having to standardize what you're selling yeah like an offer yeah and then if a way to market it right like you know if you if you break down marketing like just jumping over here to the tv right like you have you have paid you have uh referral you have organic and then you have affiliate right do you understand the difference between the four

yes okay cool so it really sounds like the only business that you've had is come through referral is that right correct uh yeah because not because you weren't paying an affiliate commission to the guy that shouted you out right you're not running any paid ads correct okay and you're you're not really posting or or doing i do quite a bit of that you do some you're organic yeah where does that organic stuff lay is it uh instagram linked, where are you doing it? LinkedIn and YouTube, LinkedIn and YouTube and a podcast. Okay. So you run a podcast. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. Okay. Sweet. How's, how's that gone for you? Uh, I started it in January, mostly just to, to start talking. Yeah. To solve some of these problems we're talking about, like what,

you know, if I can talk and I'm going in public, you know, it will help me find my voice and talk about what I'm doing better. And so that's what I do. I have about 31 episodes all launched except for the last couple. Not a lot of listeners. Previously you said that it's good value in the marketplace. You said something along those lines. Why do you say that? What do you mean by that? Yeah, how do you said that the it's, it's good value in the marketplace. You said something along those lines. What,

why do you say that? What do you mean? How do you know that most SAS companies right now are there in pipeline crisis? And it's a, it's been a really tough couple of years for SAS. So yeah, when you say pipeline crisis,

like that doesn't, that, that may mean something to me, but I'd say 90% of the listeners are like, what is he talking about? What does that mean? Their pipeline, that's what they talk about when they have leads in the sales process moving towards close. And so what's the definition of a pipeline crisis? It's the ways that they used to generate pipeline using their, they did a lot of outbound calling, cold calling and cold emailing in the past. They had a person named a BDR, a business development representative who would do that work.

And that model just stopped working in 2023. You're talking about lead gen, bringing leads in? So initial lead generation. But how does your model solve that? Because you're saying you're not lead generation. You're middle of the funnel, which is retargeting old leads. Is that correct? Not necessarily old leads, but leads that they have right now that aren't moving forward.

Right. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, just, I mean, retargeting, rehashing, re, what do, yeah, so. Well, converting. Right. So the focus I have right now, the thing that I, where I, my hypothesis is that this is going to be the area where I can make the biggest impact is in these product-led growth companies.

So their leads are the people that they've signed up as free users. And so when you sell somebody something, right? Say I'm a software business that has this pipeline issue, right? And I have a bunch of leads that aren't converting. What are you presenting to me? You have free users. You're probably converting somewhere between one and 3% of those into paid users. And now, and let me just preface this, like this is new. So this webpage that you just saw and this focus, I've narrowed it down very recently,

like just over the last couple of weeks. So just so you know that. So you have all these free users. You're converting maybe 1% to 3% of them. If you're like most SaaS companies who are running this, we want to increase that. And we put a conversion program together in your welcome sequence

and in the interactions that you have over the period of time when you have a free user who either converts or doesn't convert into a paid user. You probably have a specific amount of time where you know what that is. So are you just working as, like, do you have software solution? Do you have a process?

Are you just consulting me, coming in and building out something custom? So the components we would put together, and I can put this on software for you if you don't already have the tools to do this. We've got email programs, SMS, and then other communication methods like a webinar, like the perfect webinar you may be familiar with or video sales letters so what challenges what's what are you finding what's different from what companies are currently doing versus what you're i mean there's there's a lot of people that do sms email build webinars

right there's a lot of solopreneurs out there that i can go and hire. Why you? Yeah. The, I don't, those companies that are doing this, they're, they're all doing a lot of the same playbook. You get a couple of emails as you sign up for their products. They generally assume that you're here because you want the product that you want to buy the product and that you're seriously considering it. I don't really think that's the case, which is why, you know, only one to 3% are converting a lot of the time. They come with a problem that they're trying to solve. And the approach that most companies are using today, you know, just kind of presumes like, Hey, you're here to buy our products. So they tell you about the product. They tell you where to click first and second and third.

They tell you where to get help and support and third. They tell you where to get help and support. They welcome you to the family. It's all the same kind of messaging. I tell companies that when you have a new user signup, you should understand that they're there to solve a problem. And the more that you place the burden of finding out, does this solve my problem on their shoulders, the more friction you're going to have and the harder it's going to be for you to convert them to the next step. You need to meet them where they're at and say, I know why you're here. You have this problem. I understand you. And immediately, like as Jay Abraham said, if you can describe somebody's problem better than they can,

then they immediately assume that you have the solution. That's a much better starting point. And then you talk to them about how they can solve that problem. Your software is part of it. So if I'm understanding you, you're saying that you're able to create more clarity around the customer's problem? I will help the company get more clarity around that. Yeah, communicate in a way that centers on that problem and converts more people.

So your secret sauce is identifying what the problem is around their customers and their pipeline so you can pull them into action. Yeah. And why should someone trust that you know how to do that? I have a good track record of working with businesses and doing this so we've had some pretty remarkable successes with an adjacent industry of sales influencers who work in the tech space selling their training to sales people and times of a cry you know of it was a crisis in this industry in 2023 like i got fired from my job and so did so many other sales people the market was just really poor and the people i worked with their buyers were not buying you know for that

reason they either lost their jobs or they were afraid they were going to and um you know just using some of these tools like a seven email sequence we had a client that did fifty thousand dollars and sixty thousand dollars and in sixty thousand plus dollars in sales in three weeks from that or another one did two hundred thousand in a month just from seven emails you're saying these are clients since you've launched your business so my question is if these guys have had this success why aren't they currently with you? One of them is. Okay. And the other one, he had cashflow problems. Okay. So, so, so what I'm, what I'm hearing is you've got a solution you've identified, or you've already, you've already been able to implement it and see the results.

Yeah, no, that's a little bit of a different, like that's a different business that I was serving. I pivoted to SaaS in January because I've spent my whole career there and I was starting to think that sales influencer space just wasn't going to be a market that was big enough for me to grow like I wanted to. And I spent my whole career in software.

So my plan was to switch to SAS and that's where a lot of the slowdown has come from so you're trying to niche and you're also trying to figure out what's your package and then how do you offer yeah what's so would you say the reason why you haven't spent money on paid or done affiliate marketing is because you just don't know what you're offering yeah yeah i have spent you don't know what you're offering you don't know how to package it yeah it's i i don't know how to package it yet um i think i'm closest as close as i've ever been with with this new package okay Okay, so what's your package, right?

Once again, if I'm this person, what are you offering me? So on this page, my main offer for PLG SaaS right now is a free free-to-paid conversion accelerator. So they book a call. We have a kickoff call. They answer some questions ahead of time. I do research. What do you mean a free paid? So that's the metric that we're focused on

is the free to paid conversion. That's what they're looking at in this PLG business, like how many of our free users actually convert to paid users. So this is an accelerator for that metric and i'm doing it for free what is what does plg stand for product-led growth sorry product product-led growth okay so i mean you you're using a lot of words that are really like too sophisticated like I don't even care how sophisticated is your user is right like marketing and sales has to be like very low level sophistication right like accelerator right like like if you're

telling me that you're going to increase my conversion rate, right? Cause that's what you're, what you're telling me, right? Yes. Okay. So I will help increase your conversion or I will add another 2% to your

conversion or you don't pay anything, right? Like that to me is like very basic, very needed, very right. And, and cause what you're trying to do with this funnel, if you will, is create interest in your services, right? Yeah. The goal is to have a really great offer for people to come in,

have conversations with me, provide some value, and then upsell after. And this is a pretty, like I put a lot into this offer. Yeah. So it's, I mean, there's a lot of value here if I'm communicating it in a way that, you know, my prospect understands. Right. So, I mean, I'll just tell you, like, if I'm going to be buying something, no matter what, like, even though I know what KPI in 30 days for free. Like what? Okay. So instead of like increase your conversion rate in 30 days for free, right?

Like that's like something that I'm like, oh, okay, what does that mean? Or like have leads that aren't progressing will increase your conversion in 30 days for free. Or it's like if you know conversion rates are like you were saying 1% to 3%. You'll double it. Yeah, if you double your conversion rate, you will 4X your profits. Let me show you how. Or something that kind of pulls. So with this particular scenario, you're, you're planning on working for them for free for 30 days.

And what does working for them for free for 30 days mean? There are three calls, kickoff call. They answer some questions before the call, you know, do some research, come and have a deeper conversation on the call, go away. We give them the top three recommendations that we would have right there on the call. Then we go away and we build a custom program for them. It's recommendations and samples of emails, text messages, whatever we think is best for their market and the user that they're converting we put that together for them have an implementation call let them go and implement it and have a

follow-up call for what would you what would you imagine your target audience is doing in sales on it do you have like a profile bill of what your customer is like your target customer yeah it's a i'm i'm not exactly certain where i fit best on the company size scale um a lot of these companies i think that i could work with are going to be smaller what like hold on let me keep going here like how how small? There are a lot of companies I could work with that are sub 1 million ARR. Okay. I don't think that's where I want to be. Well, I think they're probably at least 500K to 10 million ARR.

Okay. So I think first and foremost, it's important to identify like who you're targeting, right? Like, and giving away something for free, like, it's very gimmicky. Like, business owners, like, to a consumer, free trials and those type of things work, right? Free 30 days of, like, doing work in my business makes me think, what the freak? Typically, if I see that, I'm thinking, I don't have the time. Yeah. Because this is going to just cost, yeah, this is going to cost me time and I'm probably not going to get results. Like that's literally what I see when I look at what your offer is.

And truthfully, if someone's coming with a higher price tag, I'm actually going to pay more attention to why are they charging me so much. So there is this perception of like free equals cheap. And if I'm paying for something, I want to see the value in it. So I'm more interested in what they're offering. Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, you're trying to impact the number one thing that drives any business, sales, right?

You're wanting to increase conversion rate on sales. And I know it's expensive to do that as a business owner, right? Like training is expensive. Top salespeople are expensive. Good marketing is expensive. And you're are expensive. Good marketing is expensive. And you're offering it to me for free. I'm just like, eh, this guy probably has nothing that's worth. And just being completely frank, that's what I hear as a business owner.

So with that, I think a better offer that, because what you're trying to do with free is eliminate risk, right? To the business owner? Yeah. I mean, I just want it to be easy for them to come in and get what I'm offering and see the value and then move forward. So a better option than eliminating risk with free is eliminating downside. Okay. And what I mean by eliminating downside would be something like this.

I will increase your conversion rate and only take a percentage of the increase. For example, if I'm at 2% and you can come in and give me 4% and I pay you a percentage of that increase in 2%, that's a win for me as a business owner. And it doesn't seem gimmicky. It just, what it seems to me is like, this guy's confident in his product and service. So it eliminate the downside of this guy being a complete bust for me, but he actually has something of value, right? He would not be tying what he has to some, to the upside, unless he was confident he was going to be able to do it. Right. Like that's it. Even though it's a similar type thing, what you're trying to offer like free

or whatever, it's just complete. It's completely different. and there's money for you to be made right up front yeah what are your thoughts on that to be honest with you i have not found a large appetite for performance-based payment why in my market i don't know when i negotiate it they always don't want to do it have have you tried has that been part of your? It was a standard part of my offer, even back in like the sales influencer market. You know, I'd say to make it, you know, so I don't have a huge retainer. It'd be like, it's, you know, the retainers this, and then you pay me X percent of sales or profits. And they would generally not like that idea. What about what about about if, uh, it was offered up to a certain amount of dollars? Hey, look, you pay me performance up to 10,000 bucks. Yeah. I've had one, one person bite on that. Have you offered that a bunch of times? Yeah. Okay. That's how it always was. I always had a cap. Um, but other challenges. Hold on though though. This is this is the thing you're telling me that you haven't had a lot of people bite on this yet.

You started this conversation with I haven't done a whole lot of marketing or talk to a lot of people about it. So I find it hard to believe that you have enough data to say that this doesn't work it yeah it's not i mean it's not a whole lot of people but it you know it's probably i probably offered that five six times in the business and i've had one person want to do it the others wanted to work with me but they didn't want to pay the hold up the percentage let's let's just use what you claim okay so you claim that most sas companies are converting at two percent right and if you can get them to four percent that's a win right and then you just explained to me that you've made an offer to five to six people and it had one convert what percentage is that 20 20 you see where I'm going here?

Yeah. So to say that doesn't work when you're getting a 20% conversion, yet these companies that you're offering solutions to are only getting a 2% conversion, that seems like a pretty bold claim. Well, here's the, I mean, this is the concern I have. Those other people still wanted to work with me. They just didn't want to pay me that way. And so if I'm making that my offer, I mean, I could still make that my offer

and then walk it back if they don't want to do it that way. I just don't want to cut out 80% of my market because they don't want to do it that way. I think too. I just don't want to cut out 80% of my market because they don't want to work that way. The other, and just real quick before you go, Gerald, the other thing is at a SaaS company, the larger it gets, the harder it's going to be to negotiate for that. Like it wouldn't even be in that person's power.

Okay, so this is what I'm hearing, Andrew. And I'm just going to shoot you straight if you're good with that. You're operating very much on a scarcity mindset, right? Because you're saying, and the reason why you're operating on a scarcity mindset is because you're not taking enough action to get people in front of you to be able to offer products to. Yeah. Right? And so I get it. Like if you think that you're only going to have five

or six total opportunities to be able to offer a product, you want to be able to capture as many of those people as possible. Because I mean, from, from the looks on your financials, right? Like you have two clients right now, right? Losing one client is a big deal and gaining one client is a big deal. Yeah. You have to overcome the mentality that one client is a big deal and gaining one client is a big deal. You have to overcome the mentality that one client is a big deal, right? Like you have to get, you have to get out of that, that it's a, it's a very scarce mindset, right? Like what is, what is your total target market? Like how many potential people could you pitch this product to in the world? And I think to, to, to kind of emphasize that, like the whole concept of 10 X is easier than two X, like trying to double your business is a lot

harder than 10 X in your business. Yeah. Because once you think, okay, I just need to tax my business period. What does that take? I don't need it. 10 times the, the, the leads come in and I need to 10 times the, the effort here and there. And effort here and there. And that's the same thing. The conclusion I'm getting is like, you're trying to swing a home run every time you're up to bat. Like think how it happens in baseball. And it's not even that you're trying to swing a home run

for every time at bat. You're just unwilling to go up and take at bats and the very few times that you are at bat that they have to be a home run right like it's not even that you're trying like it has to or else i don't feed my family is what is what i'm hearing and so like you've got to like this is a sales and marketing issue right like you've got to ignore like like you don't even have to have the perfect freaking product. Like you've got to just go and get in front of 10 new people a day and offer your services. And if nobody's biting on your service, then you have the wrong offer.

And then you need to make a little tweak and then you need to go and get in front of 10 more people. And if they don't take it, then you need to make and get in front of 10 more people and if they don't take it then you need to make a tweak and like that is the foundational issue that we're talking about here it really has nothing to do whether or not your product is perfect your offer is perfect you're like like you're not marketing like in in marketing you can do this in such a very simple way like like when we're talking about like the organic. Like when we're talking about the organic marketing here, we're talking about cold DMing a bunch of people on LinkedIn. Are you doing that?

I have done that. I'm not doing it right now. How many times have you done that? Hundreds. Back several months ago, I was doing it pretty frequently. I'd say another thing too is like what services can tie into your service

that people use before needing your service and what services do people use after what you offer? From an affiliate standpoint. Because the thing is, is like you can start tying in and saying, hey, I got this one solution that takes care of this, this, and this. You fulfill on this. You've got a company that does that. You've got another company that does that. You're making a commission off of those. You're making your money

off of this. All of a sudden you're able to offer something way bigger. Yeah. Right. That's, that's one of the ways I think, um, one, you can piggyback off these guys because you create a relationship with them. You're getting business from them. You're giving business to them. Two, your offer can be a lot better. You can say, hey, this is what I offer. You have pricing in for both those guys as well as yours. Or maybe it's just before you or after you, whatever you want. I think it's a pretty, like, I know you probably fret it a lot.

I mean, it sounds like you don't really know what you're selling or whatnot. Like, you sell conversion, right? right? That's what you sell. You increase people's mid-funnel conversion. It's got to be that basic. And now you just have to have an offer on what that is. Look, you pay me performance-based up until 10,000 or just performance based altogether, I will increase your conversion. And now you need to get in front of people where that's actually going to move the needle. And because like, once again, going back to just what we've talked about five to six people, like you can't like, so when we were, when we were selling at $26 million a month, okay, guess how many leads we generated a day?

Hundreds? A thousand. A thousand. That means there was a thousand people that expressed interest in our product that we spent money on, okay, to express that interest. And then from them expressing our interest, we reached out to and took a swing. Not all those converted into a phone call actually picking up, but when the phone call picking up, we had to convert those into an interested buyer that was going to take a proposal. And then from an interested buyer

and proposal, certain amount of those were going to close. And at every level, there was a metric similar to like what you're helping these other businesses do, right? And you've got to do that for your business. You have nothing measurable from a marketing standpoint that is input and output, right? Like you want to go and solve this output. Like, I mean, I would too right now, you've lost five grand over the last 14 months. That's no position anybody wants to be in. The way that you solve this is you have to start marketing what you do and marketing, like start spending like a small, first of all, where are you at financially to be able to spend money on marketing? Do you have any

money? Uh, no. So you've been living off of a line of credit or a HELOC? Yeah. Like when, yeah, when we needed it over this period of reality right it's like how much do you believe in what you do 100 but like as you've seen today like i haven't figured out how to communicate it in a way that's just like a no-brainer for people yet. And that's where I'm trying to get. I don't think it's how to communicate it. It's how often you're communicating it. Yes. Because in any sales process, the more repetitions you get, the better you get.

You start to fine-tune things. You see what works, what doesn't work. Your closing percentage is actually phenomenal. Right. If you're closing one out of five, one out of six. It's phenomenal like that's it's it's higher than that but they're referrals okay okay you know like facts okay so then why then why aren't you asking for more referrals why aren't you going and creating more

affiliate relationships right like most of these things are action oriented yeah you're going to pay with everything with either time energy energy, or money, right? Paid ads is going to be money, right? The other things are going to be time and energy, right? I guess, what are you spending your day doing every single day right now? I'm doing the organic content. I'm delivering for customers and I'm working on stuff like this. How long does it take to deliver for customers? It's up and down because, as I mentioned in these documents, without a standardized offer, it's kind of ad hoc or bespoke.

Are you selling contracts to these people or is it just month to month? It's month to month with a minimum number of months to start. Okay. So usually three to six. Okay. So you have a six month agreement. It's month to month. But people, why would somebody leave you if they're getting results?

The only time that's happened is because they had cash flow issues in the business. Okay. And so, I mean, so how much time is being spent every day to fulfill for customers? If I were to average it out, I'd say probably half the day. So half the day is being spent on that. So you're working for 10 grand a month, 20 hours a week is fulfilling on that. Is that something that could be hired out? Yeah, with some training. With some training.

Okay. So let's talk about what you love doing. So we have this thing called the energy matrix. We have quadrant one, two, three, and four. And quadrant one is stuff that's low energy, low value. Okay. And energy is defined by do you love doing it? And value is how much value it brings to the business by you doing it, right? Or how much it would cost to replace what you do, okay?

What do you love doing in your business? I love creating the content. I love doing the marketing for my own business or for somebody else's. So I love that delivery piece. There are parts of it that I love more than others. Do you love the sales? I don't love the sales. You don't love doing sales?

No. So selling to clients, you don't like doing that? I like it. I don't love it as much as the other stuff. Okay. Okay, so what I would put that in, if you look here, so sales I would put in quadrant three, which would be low energy, high value. Okay?

Low energy means you don't love it, but it brings a lot of value, right? Mm-hmm. Okay, so sales is going to hang out here. What do you hate doing and would require not a lot to hire it out? Specifically for growing the business in sales and marketing. Just anything. Like accounting would go there. Accounting. I don't really do a whole lot of it.

Yeah. I look at it every once in a while. I need to do that more. What about anything on the fulfillment side? Yeah, there's some automation work, technical work, building websites or just setting stuff up. You said marketing is one of the things you love to do what aspects of marketing because i don't what we're getting to is like there's not a lot

of marketing happening so when you say you love marketing like i feel like there's a disconnect there yeah so when you say marketing i mean i'll split it into two things the marketing that's not happening is lead generation right now in my business and admittedly like that's a that's a weak spot for me that i've always had i i don't do lead gen in my business i don't get leads for other companies and you know my efforts in my own business you know have yet to produce something that's repeatable and consistent to generate leads i'm much better when i have leads um the marketing i love to do is copywriting email marketing basically the services that you're offering yeah have you have you ever tried to like team up with somebody else that offers a similar service and just do those fulfillment?

The stuff that you love to do? Is that somebody that does the same stuff as me? No. Or somebody who does... That could use your services of copywriting, right? Like that type of thing, right? Have you ever tried teaming up with anybody? There was one guy who had a very similar business

that I talked to partnership with a couple of times at the beginning of this year. It didn't pan out, but... You guys had similar businesses? Yeah, we had similar businesses. Which I think is what you're asking, right? Yeah. But I think too, it's complimentary business, complementary business right so for example someone who's good at the lead uh lead nurturing generation

sorry lead generation yeah not the nurturing yeah so you have someone on the front end you're right behind them yeah so now together you guys are bringing in leads nurturing leads converting those leads but then you're also able to offer that service to others yeah so and i guess i'm i'm confused so are you trying to do like a done for you business or is it like a consultancy of this is how to do it i want to get to a done for you when i started last year i mean i I started this business without a whole lot of runway ahead of time. I got fired from my job, thought, what am I going to do next? I know I'm really good at this stuff. I can do this for a business.

And I spent the first year figuring it, like, kind of bouncing around between who do I serve? What do I want this to look like? Do I want to be a consultant or do i want this to be an agency yep i'm trying to avoid commodity areas that are just going to get replaced by ai in the next one to two years anyway yep um and so those are those are the things i've been navigating so the answer i know the answer now but i haven't always known the answer. And the answer is I want it to be a done-for-you service that I can sell repeatedly at a higher scale. Yep. So, I mean, really you have a sales and marketing issue, right?

Like getting clients in the door. Because at the end of the day, like if you have increased, if you have sales coming in at the top of the funnel here, right? So you got, you got sales and then you have to do fulfillment, which is what you like doing. You like doing the fulfillment side of the business, right? Like doing, doing the legwork and whatnot.

But that is also for you to be able to scale because like half your day is being spent to be able to do $10, worth of worth of work a month and so that really puts your max capacity at like twenty thousand dollars under your current under your current offer right and so what i would be doing is i would be contracting with a with a sales company somebody that has leads some affiliates some something because they're going to be able to drive you business that you currently, and you give them a commission and you, and you figure out, okay, what am I willing to, what am I willing to do this? And you got to be able to know what you can hire out the fulfillment for, yeah because right now your your max amount of money that you're working for is a hundred dollars an hour because if you're making 200 grand a year that's a hundred bucks

an hour right and yeah like that you got to figure out how somebody else can do the fulfillment for less than like 25 bucks. Right. Have you built out processes and systems to be able to do this? To be able to teach somebody else to do what you do? In some areas. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So first of all, you need to solve the sales issue. And the easiest way to solve the sales issue is to hire somebody to do sales that gets paid commission only. Right. Because then there's no risk. There's no risk affiliated with commission only. If they're doing cold calling, right, and just going directly to the source, or with affiliate type offer.

Now, if you're generating leads through paid advertising, there's going to be a little bit of risk. But then you just start doing, uh, you know, figuring out what you can convert at. Frankly, if I was you, I'd be spending a little bit of dollars, a hundred bucks a month, a couple of hundred bucks a month, nothing crazy on generating leads and see, can you start converting those? And if you can prove that you can convert those, then you put a salesperson on those that they're going to get paid a commission. They have, then they start building up because once again, going back to what I talked about, it was like, you're putting too much of your destiny

on a very scarce resource, right? Like you're, you're just hoping and praying that when you lose this one client, you can replace it with the client. And from what I read, you've done that for the most part. When you've lost a client, you've replaced with a client. Yeah, it was, I mean, serendipitously. It was like this just happened on the same day, the last two times. One client left. I signed another client. I had been planning to sign the client.

The client leaving was a little bit less of something I saw ahead of time. And so I was like, I'm growing. And I would say it's probably not serendipitous. I think it is just that scarcity mentality of like, you know you have to always be here and you're there. And I would say most people operate that way. It's not unique to you right like don't think that like oh i have this unique problem that nobody else has like most people do just enough

to to survive right and to be able to get to like but you've got to get past the survival mode past this scarcity and you got to think in an abundance, like what if, what would it look like to be able to have 20 clients, right? Like, and you need to start designing your whole strategy on what it's going to take to get 20 clients, what it's going to take to service 20 clients, what like, like that, and that has got to be your goal. It's back to Daryl's point of like 10 X is better than two X. Instead of thinking, how can I get from 2 to 3 to 4? Think, how can I get from 2 to 20? So an example would be like, let's say in two months, if I could promise you, you're going to have 20 clients, what would you do today? So you're ready

for that. What would you do? I would need to hire some people. Okay. I need to have those standard operating procedures built out completely and click up. I would need to. So the reality is if you're not taking those actions that you know you have to take in order to be at that size, you'll never get there and what's interesting and we've learned this is like once you understand taking those big actions like having a big massive goal will change you and make you think differently than if you're just waiting for something to knock on the door like oh there's my big opportunity yeah because they usually it is a knock on your door yeah like you've got to go find it but putting yourself in a mindset to find it is thinking in the future, what's the vision? How are you getting there? If it comes to you, are you ready to go? Yeah. And if you're not, you're just gonna let it pass by you.

Right. And that's what most people do. Yeah. So the hard part is hiring with this. Right. Like how would you how would you approach that so so again the least risk that you can take right now is going and hiring salespeople that are commission only or going and hiring affiliate partners that are essentially going to bring you business for a percentage okay right like that's going to be the most it's actually the most expensive you think that the other way is the most expensive but the most expensive is giving up a percentage of commission or a large percentage to an affiliate partner. Right. But it's a way to be able to get money in the door. Right. Yeah. And then the other thing is like, you've got to be willing to take some risk. Right. Like, and if that means diving

into your, your HELOC or selling some assets or, you know, being able to like get it down. Like most people are unwilling to sacrifice their lifestyle for what they want. Right. And, and we, we just think that we, and this isn't necessarily you, but most people think that they deserve the watch, the house, the, the cars, the everything else where reality is like, they've the watch, the house, the cars, everything else, where in reality is like they've got to match the action to be able to get there. And so like hiring is a slow process, but it has to be done, right? Like you've got to make the moves have got to be, okay, I got to generate revenue. And if I'm not willing to generate revenue, I've got to bring somebody in that will generate revenue. So up here I have the disk analysis, which we had you take.

Hold on, just really quick. So one of the things you just said is we call RGAs, revenue generating activities. If you're not spending 80% of your time on RGAs right now, like that's all you need. You need more revenue. And what happens is, is as you're stuffing revenue, as you're stuffing clients in your business, you're going to have a bottleneck to fulfill, right? That's a lot easier to solve than, than building out all this stuff,

perfect processes, all the hires or whatnot. So you need to stuff business into your, you need to stuff revenue into your business and then the pipeline, you'll figure it out. It's like packing on a, on a big trip. Usually don't pack till the day before, right? But you always get what you need and you might miss a few things, but it's never a big issue. Yeah. Stuff the revenue in your business. Don't worry about how you're going to fulfill because you'll figure it out. And it's way easier to hire and figure it out once you have the revenue than the opposite. Because you're trying to solve this like, oh, how am I going to be able to grow and hire all these people when I have no revenue? Go get the revenue.

Even though you hate sales, go do it. I don't care. Go figure out how to get in front of people. Ask for referrals. Do affiliate relationships. Sp spend a few hundred bucks a month on ads, like start getting in front and perfecting exactly what, what that offer is. Like, we don't know exactly what the perfect offer is going to be for your business. Cause we're not in your business, but just understanding, like, like just simplify it simple make it very simple solve a problem identify the problem that you're solving provide a solution and charge appropriately for it and be the most expensive right like do not do not cheapen yourself you could probably be charging these

people 20 grand a month instead of 10 grand a month or whatever whatever you're doing and but yeah the worst thing you can do is have all your eggs in one basket counting on one one client to be there forever right like like you've got to get out of that mentality yeah um so the the other thing just when hiring people looking going over here to the disc analysis um we had you do a disc and you're a d which dominant personality and this is what i'll tell you about dominant personalities they're not very personable uh from from a like uh they get crap done right like they they are drivers they can get things across the finish line uh they're very goal oriented, everything like that. But there's no like flowery anything, right? The I is the influence side, which you're lacking, which is fine. Guess what?

The biggest thing that you need to understand about a disc is that the I, the S and the C, you have to hire out. You have to find people that are going to bring the balance. There's no such thing as perfect people. There's only perfect couples, perfect teams, and perfect groups. And the way you do it is by balancing the disc. Like if I'm hiring a salesperson, what I would be looking for is somebody that's a high D, high I. They have both that influence and drive. Like those are going to be your top

salespeople in an organization. D personalities can do it. They don't necessarily love it because they don't necessarily love people. Yeah. And then just so you know, you can fulfill all those roles, the I, the S, the C, but naturally, you're going to

reserve back to that D. That's going to be your default. Yeah. And so eventually you get tired of being the, the I and the S and the C and you want to go back to that D. That's where you just want to keep going. And so back to what he's saying, you can fulfill all those roles, but eventually like you have to have a team that,

that balances you out. And so I would be focusing on going and find, finding a DI that can go and do some sales that's going to push revenue. And until then, to Daryl's point, you've got to be at least 50%. 80% should be the target. At least 50% of your day has to be an activity that is potentially generating revenue. Not fulfillment. Not fulfillment. revenue. Not fulfillment. Not fulfillment. Okay.

Not fulfillment. Yeah, new revenue. Because you're going to get done the fulfillment. The problem is you're probably allowing that fulfillment to take a good portion of your day because you're putting off the actual revenue generating things or other things that you know you need to get done and it's easy to do this. Yeah.

Would you agree with that? Yeah. And the other thing you could think of is you're like, man, I can get more revenue if I treat these clients really, really good and deliver a top of the line product. Yeah. The problem with that is it's not how the world works. Like you've got to do the activity that's bringing in more and more clients. If you, unless you want to barely survive, keep doing what you're doing, right?

But you've got to shift your mindset to, like, I've got to bring in 10x revenue-generating activities. I've got to be able to stuff my business with revenue where I have a problem on fulfillment. How many hours are you working a week right now? 60. So what does the day look like is it monday through saturday what yeah okay yeah and it's how many hours you're saying four hours a day towards fulfillment yeah not on saturday that's generally like special projects day doing stuff like building that new funnel or creating content for the

podcast or linkedin that kind of stuff so from what i'm hearing you're doing a lot of marketing that isn't marketing right like podcasts and and funnel, like these are all cool things, but ain't driving traffic. No, it's not. It's not lead gen. No. And you've, you've got to do lead gen activities. If that means you going and knocking on these software's doors, like physically, or if that means cold calling them or DMing them or whatever else, like that is the work that you're avoiding and has to be done. Like, I don't care how beautiful your funnel is. I don't care how great your podcast is. If nobody's listening to that dang thing or landing on that dang thing, you ain't going to get a dang new client, right? And as proven, like your only traffic is actually come and come through somebody

saying something about you. Right. Which is, which is awesome. And let's get more of those. That's a traffic driver. Like let's get more people shouting you out on their, on their LinkedIn. Like how do we, how do we do that? How do we get more affiliates? How do we get like that is, those are the true revenue, revenue generating activities. You're doing revenue capturing activities. Do revenue generating activities, right? And so that's going to be the big, big changer. And because, dude, I don't care what your offer is.

If you have 20 people, 20 clients, it's going to be way, way better than what you got going on right now. Because if you lose one client at 20, no big deal. Right now you lose a client, you're, you're struggling. It's a big deal. You're sweating.

Correct. Yeah. And yeah, we've got to get away from that. So, so let me ask you, what, what,

what are your takeaways? What are your actions? And where do you feel like you, why haven't you taken some of these steps um so the takeaways are just have to have a much more intense focus on growing the business with new leads and then converting them through sales and marketing i've got the i've got this marketing piece, but I'm not putting anything into the funnel to test it and iterate to get to the right offer and then closing more people.

That's a mindset thing. I think what you've got to realize is you've got a product that has been built off of referrals. You've got a good product. Yeah. So now it's how do I take this product? How do I get in front of more people?

And truthfully, the way that I look at entrepreneurship and business is like if you've got a good product and you're not getting it in front of people, like you're missing your calling in life. Your calling in life is to help other people. You can only help people if you're getting in front of them. And if you're not doing that, like you're missing out on what you're supposed to offer the world.

So it's like what Robert Kiyosaki says in Rich Dad, Poor Dad, when he's referring to books, right? Like best written, there's best written books all the time. They don't sell. Yeah. Right. Like who cares how good your product is if it's not a best selling book right you need to be a best selling project and so going back here with the the four

the four quadrants if you want to just look over your shoulder here so marketing and sales like and specifically lead gen clearly exist in your in your third quadrant which is low energy high value right like these things are what are going to drive the most value to the business yeah you 10 clearly exist in your, in your third quadrant, which is low energy, high value, right? Like these things are what are going to drive the most value to the business. Yeah. You may hate doing them, but quadrant three, you cannot hire out before quadrant one. Okay. When you're building a business quadrant one has to be your first hires. These are the things that you hate doing and do not bring a lot of value, right? And you, meaning that you can hire them out for cheap, right? I can go and hire somebody

in the Philippines for three bucks an hour or whatnot. And so, so instead of, instead of putting off quadrant three or trying to hire that out, say this is the short-term sacrifice that I need to make until I get all the quadrant one things off my plate. And then I can focus on getting the quadrant three. So then eventually you're going to hang out here in quadrant four and quadrant two. So quadrant four, this is the things that you love doing and bring a ton of value to the business. And then quadrant two would be low value or so there'd be high energy and low value. This would be things like with your family, right? Like you could hire them out like a nanny or whatnot, but you love doing it. Right. And so this is, this is where you want to hang out for the rest of your life is in quadrant two and four,

the things that bring the most value when, most value and you love doing, and the things you love doing that you could hire out, but you're not going to because you absolutely love doing it. And so focus in this quadrant three, like I'm going to bite the bullet. In the meantime, I'm going to do the sales, even though I don't love doing them. And then eventually I can bring in a sales guy. That is what's going to push this thing forward. And sales, I promise you, will solve all the issues. It solves all the heartache. Yeah.

Well, do you want to go a level deeper? Or are we out of time? Yeah, we got it. So it's not that I hate those things. I've done a lot of work this last 20 months on me. And a lot of that went through the world of Tony Robbins. And the challenge with those activities, I think, and I've worked a lot on this,

and it still keeps showing up, is that I have a strong need for certainty. And so my desire to, and I'm aware of this up here, my desire to go into areas that are uncertain in doing things like lead gen, like dropping a thousand bucks on ads, which I did.

I dropped several thousand dollars on ads in January and it didn't pay off because I didn't have the right offer you know but waiting out into january drop several thousand you said okay so first of all never go and just drop several thousand okay always start and test always always be really low that's what i did but it was it was december and january over the course so you let it test too long. Yeah, I let it test too long. Let me jump in here because when you start talking about this, I have all kinds of thoughts.

So when you say certainty, you've got to realize where you're wanting certainty. Yeah. Right now, your certainty, you know the results you get. They're not the results you want, but you know how to get the results you're getting. Correct. So you're certain in getting below par results, right? Now, if you truly think of what you want, what is that? What's, what do you want certainty in? I would like to be, uh, I don't, I don't think the certainty is the thing at that point.

Like, I would be uncertain. But what I want to do is go get results, any result that I want. Yeah, be more specific. What result? For my business growth? Personal. Personal. Personal.

I mean, it'll come from your business, right? But what's your personal goal? I want to be a highly successful business owner. Okay, so that's making $50,000 a year? No. How much is that? It's a $100 million valuation in business. Okay. By 2029.

Okay. So if you want certainty, a certainty is if you keep doing what you're doing, you'll never get there. Right. Right? So you've got to figure out how to change your focus on what you're certain in. Because I've gone through some of Tony Robbins stuff, right? And a lot of times it's it's pain or pleasure right so certainty gives you pain or gives you pleasure and you've got to shift it but a lot of times the pain's not painful enough so you keep going back to that and so you got to realize like where does this lead you if you don't make the change like where where does this lead you where does it leave your family and your kids not good places and how much of that do you want to have?

How much pain do you want to continue bringing into your life? None. None? And so the question is, what can be a plan, which I think Chris is getting to, what can be a plan that you are certain in that will change that but give you what you want? And going back to some of the principles principles we teach is having a vision that you believe in is certainty it's just we're not taught how to use it in that way doesn't mean you

know every step but you know the outcome yeah so yeah i mean it's it's great and grand to say hey i want a i want a hundred million dollar business but if you don't have a roadmap to be able to get there, you've got to be able to get there. And so there's only one way that you can build a $100 million business. It's with a team. And the only way you can afford to hire a team is you have to have a sales and marketing process that works. That's it.

And the only way you can get a marketing and marketing process that works yeah right like that's that's it and the only way like you get a sales and processing a marketing and sales process that works is you've got to spend time energy and money on those things right and so like first like game plan is to be like sales and marketing that's it like that's that's got gotta be your focus. There's, there's nothing else like it. I don't care how cool you're like, you, you want your team to look or whatever else. Like number one has to be a sales in a sales and marketing game plan. And I think you've got to specify RGAs, right? What are the revenue drivers in sales and marketing? Because I think there's a lot of stuff

you can do in marketing that's not going to produce any any revenue so yeah let's let's break this down so we're going to say daily so how much time are you going to commit to revenue generating activities every day well you're saying it should be 50 of the time so it should be four hours i have a question but but let's let's keep going it's probably better for okay so yeah and let me just point out your your numbers aren't add enough you're telling me half your day is four hours that means eight hours a day that's not 60 hours a week oh okay but uh but uh we'll just we'll just point that out there okay so you're gonna say you're gonna do four hours a day of revenue-generating activities?

Okay, so four hours a day RGAs. Okay. Once you have something that's scalable, meaning that you're starting to generate, you need to hire salespeople. And then once you generate enough revenue, you need to attract other talent. And the way that you're going to do all these things is like what Daryl's talking about. You have to have a vision and direction. And certainty is more in yourself than in what your offer is. Certain that you're going to do whatever it takes to make sure this thing is successful, right? Like for me, I'm a very certain person. The reason I'm

certain is because I don't lie to myself, right? When I say I'm going to wake up tomorrow at 5am, I'm going to wake up tomorrow at 5am. And the way that you build more confidence and certainty is just not, is those little things of not lying. Like if I say, all right, I'm getting up every day at 5am. Every time I get up at 5am, it reestablishes, I am, I am what I say I am. Therefore I will do what I say I'm going to do. And I'm going to, I'm going to be that, right? Like that's how you make little wins. Like, Hey, I'm going to do 10 pushups. I do 10 pushups. Then like like it's just those little things that build up the confidence over time yeah right and and then what when i say i'm gonna work four hours a day on rgas i work four hours a day on rgas and the second that i don't i have to

audibly say i screwed up right because what most people do when they start screwing up is they ignore it and act like it never happened. Like the day I didn't wake up at 5 a.m., I don't admit it to myself that I screwed up. So I got to go and look at myself in the mirror and be like, you didn't wake up at 5 a.m. Tomorrow we're going to get this thing figured out and we're going to get back on track. The other easy thing to do is just not tell yourself any of those things. So it doesn't matter what time you wake up. Going back to what Chris was saying, you've got to be specific in your vision. Yeah.

I'm good at that in a lot of areas of life. It's in those things where I don't have a lot of certainty. And this is where the question came in. So, what I have found, and I wonder, I'm curious how you did this in your business. So I could say I'm going to go do four RGAs, four hours of RGAs every day. And what I will do, just knowing myself and my habits and the way I operate,

I'm going to go get, within two, I'll be in a pretty deep rut of, all right, I've got a routine. I'm doing my four hours of RGs a day. It's not working, but I'm doing it and I'm comfortable with it now. I'm certain in this thing, I can go do these four hours. We're talking about revenue generating activities, not activities that I think might generate revenue. Yeah. Okay. So if it's not working, change it. Do something different that generates revenue.

Because I guarantee you, if you are doing things that actually generate revenue, you're not going to get in a rut. Right. And so we're not telling you a specific way to go do that. We're saying go and work and try and figure out until something works. Right. And there's a million different ways that you can market. Yeah. A million. So go figure out which ones work and fail and try again and fail and try again and fail and try again until you find something that is a vein that works and they do it again. And then, I mean, that's, that's all success is. It's crawling,

falling, crawling, falling, take a step, fall, take a step, fall, start to walk, fall, take a, start to walk, fall, start to run like that. That's all success is. It's, but, but it won't be if you continue to try to crawl, right? Like you have to continue to try the next step, the next thing that's going to be able to generate that success and i think one of the powerful tools that you might need is a partner it sounds like you get caught up in your own head and then you go aimlessly in a different direction absolutely well in that same direction so i'm thinking back to the time where i was doing all that dming right like i would i would do this process and i'm i'm on this precipice like should i change

it it's not working or have i just not done it long enough and you know i can feel good about doing it at the end of the day like i did it i said i was going to do it and i did it was getting any results no if it wasn't getting results then it wasn't working but i would expect pretty low conversion rates on that right so like i mean i don't know how did you have any conversions i had several conversations but uh no sales okay so i think too is you're trying to say, okay, I'll do this. That didn't work. I'll do this.

You need to do 10 things at once. Okay. You need to do this, this, this. Like massive, like massive action. And,

and frankly, I think you're probably not working 60 hours a week and you probably need to work more. I like, like until this thing launches. So like when we launched Solgen, eight hours a day, my day was dedicated towards working in the office, setting up, working on the business. And then I spent every evening in customers' homes, closing deals. Every evening, I was working 12 to 14 hours a day,

six days a week until that thing got off the ground, right? Like you're probably just not taking enough action. And, and the action that you're taking is just busy work to tell yourself that you're taking the action. Like, because there's a lot of people that do that, right? Like we want to lie to ourselves, like, well, I'm working and it's just not working. No bull crap. You're not working. You're just, you're not even like, like mentally there, not working you're just you're not even like like mentally there right you're just they're hitting dms and expecting different results it's it's usually you're finding an activity that keeps you busy so you don't have to do the other activity right right yeah and so that's where like if you can't hold yourself accountable to that that's where you

get a partner involved a partner that can compliment you has at least an eye. You can have a DI, ISC, whatever it may be. Probably someone who's more dialed in on the marketing lead gen side. And this is where you say, hey, I'm going to do this. Hold me accountable to it. And there can be a lot of power in that. Yeah. There's, there's a ton of, ton of power in partners and there's a variety of ways that you can get partners. You can either have an equity partner, you can hire a consultant, you can hire a coach, right? Like these are all different ways. For us, we've always preferred the partner approach so that we can be able to like bounce things off of each other. And, and you know, even when I'm not a hundred percent certain,

there's like different certainties and, and different ways. But yeah, there's a big balance in, in abilities and character and everything else that's going into it. But then on top of that, it's pain to be in the right rooms. Right.

And now I get that you can't afford to be in the right room right now, but like, you should be doing everything you can to make additional money so that you can pay. Like there's two things that I would recommend to any person once they started generating a profit. One, you got to do all the action possible to be able to start generating a profit. And then once you start to have profits, there's two things that you invest in. One is more marketing, more paid marketing, because none of it should be going into your pocket. It should all be going into building your business. And two is paying to be in the right rooms. And you've done some of this, obviously. You had some Tony Robbins and whatnot. But dude, that's where you've got to be. What do you think?

Yeah, what are you hearing? You're right. So what are you committed to doing i'm committed to creating that space of time for doing revenue generating activities the way you talk about that to me like the words are being more resourceful i've got to find the ways that are going to work in my business, in my market. And it's not doing it for a month and then looking at results. It's every single day, you know, where's the money today? Where could I get money today? It's a science, scientific approach. You test, you measure, test, you measure, you test, you measure. You're not getting a result. You need to do a new test, a new structure, a new program, a new opportunity. Yeah. So you're committed to doing those RGAs. What else? I'm committed to doing the RGAs. I'm committed to, what else did

we talk about? We talked about partners. We talked about lead gen, talked about standardizing your offer. Hiring salespeople, standardizing your offer. Which is, yeah. Sim standardizing your offer hiring sales people standardizing your offer which is yeah simplifying your offer that's already yeah that's already a work in progress i'm i will continue to do that sales people i think will i think i'll try to go the um how do you know you'll have the right offer when it's a no-brainer for my market i think one thing i do is i'd reach out to people that are potential clients and say, hey, can I run something by you? I'm trying to set this up, structure the right way. Would you be interested in something like this?

Yeah. Or if you were in my position, how would you structure this offer? Yeah. Get market feedback. People will give it to you. If you reach out to the right people in the right way, there's so much information,

so much value in what people are experiencing, and most people will share that pretty freely. And if they won't, they're usually the type of person you don't want to hear from anyway, so. All right, all right. Well, Andrew, we appreciate you coming in, making the trip up from Utah, coming to the studio. Hopefully what we've been able to provide has been of value and that you have a strong game plan forward. And the biggest thing is just realize, you talked about things that work like in your fitness and everything else, like these same principles apply in business. You've just got to do it. Like you know it works in fitness. You just got to work until you know it works in business, right?

And so like that's really the key in allowing, you know, the same principles to impact the side of the business. So appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us on the show. Thank you.