Next Level Pros - #130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

Welcome to a New Episode of Next Level Pros! In today's episode, we're thrilled to have Aytekin Tank, the mastermind behind the transformative software JotForm, which has dramatically altered the landscape of online forms. Aytekin will share his entrepreneurial journey, focusing on the pivotal role of sustained focus and compounded growth in achieving business success. He discusses the evolution of JotForm, from its inception as a simple form builder to a comprehensive suite catering to varied business needs, emphasizing automation and customer-centric development. Stay tuned as Aytekin shares the principles that kept him on track amidst the allure of new opportunities, providing invaluable insights for entrepreneurs at all stages. Apply to be on the show: https://forms.gle/hwDijQPFyKCEtHNs8  Highlights: "We hit oil by digging one hole 1000 feet deep, not 1000 holes one foot deep." "Giving something away for free is the biggest marketing tool you can have."  "Automate your busy work to focus on what's truly important."  "Persistence is key; you need to learn to pivot and persevere through challenges." Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Aytekin Tank and the genesis of JotForm. 02:52 - Aytekin joins the show; background and initial motivations. 07:13 - The leap from employment to entrepreneurship. 10:34 - Learning from side projects and the transition to full-time on JotForm. 16:41 - The evolution from free to paid subscriptions and early challenges. 23:15 - Expanding JotForm's functionality beyond basic forms. 28:17 - Introduction of enterprise solutions and learning the ropes of sales. 32:20 - Growth and scaling challenges faced over 19 years. 35:16 - The critical importance of focus and saying no to distractions. 41:28 - Where to find Aytekin Tank and closing remarks. Looking to scale your business? Want to learn directly from the same team that helped me sell my last business for 9 figures? Click this link below to check out how you can work with us. https://nextlevelhomepros.com/grow-home-service-vsl  Join my community - Founder Acceleration ⁠https://www.founderacceleration.com  ⁠ Apply for our next Mastermind: h⁠ttps://www.thefoundermastermind.com ⁠  Golf with Chris: h⁠ttps://www.golfwithchris.com ⁠  Watch my latest Podcast Apple- ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-founder-podcast/id1687030281S ⁠ Spotify- ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1e0cL2vI1JAtQrojSOA7D2 ⁠ YouTube - @thefounderspodcast

Aytekin, so you started out as a developer for internet.com. What ultimately led to you saying, you know what, I want to go and do something on my own. Like what finally like clicked or made sense for you? At that time, like I kind of hated it because it wasn't very challenging, like just, you know, typing HTML to create forms or just handling them back end to send emails things like that. So I wanted to find a product that can actually do that and I searched for it.

There are some products but they're well done. So at that time like it clicked on my mind that if I ever like start my business this is the product I could build. With that knowledge I quit my job, I forged it and I built JotForm. What's up Founder Nation? Super excited to bring you this episode with Mr. Itech and Tonk. This guy has built a 600-man empire competing with Google Forms and all kinds of different crazy stuff. The best part about this episode is the focus that this guy has had

for the last 19 years, not getting distracted by all the shiny objects. You know what I'm talking about if you're an entrepreneur. There's all kinds of opportunities out there. We want to say yes. One of the best phrases I've ever heard is you can do anything but you can't do everything. We hit oil by digging one hole thousand feet deep, not a thousand holes, one foot deep. So let's dive into this episode as we talk about focus and compounded growth. Let's go Yo, yo, yo, welcome to another episode of the founder podcast today I am joined by mr. I Tekken tongue I Tekken is tuning in from Turkey halfway across the world super excited to have you.

Itekin's got a phenomenal story. This is a story that you're not going to want to miss. We're talking about somebody that has dedicated his life to his craft, that slow growth, consistent, compounding growth that really a lot of us entrepreneurs miss out on because we get distracted by the shiny objects. We've got all these other different type of things and I taken is is Proven that if you can just find something that works and continue to dig the hole over and over and over again Eventually going to hit oil. He has grown his business since

2005 to now 19 years later to over 600 employees He's got an incredible incredible software job form that is utilized throughout the world Doing millions of dollars in revenue he has real a New York Times bestseller Automated your busy work. He is just well published well Just a well-established entrepreneur. He's super excited to have you on the show, Mr. I. Tech, and welcome to the show. Hello, Chris. Great to be on your show.

Thank you for that great introduction. Yeah, man. It's exciting. I would also share that not only an incredible businessman that is dedicated himself to the crap, but a family man that I just found out married, three children. For me, as a family man, it's always important to me when I have that similar bond with another business owner because some people, they just dedicate their whole life to business and they don't have this other you know, other aspects.

So that's really cool. Itek, and so you started out as a developer for internet.com for five years. In fact, I didn't even know internet.com was a thing. That makes sense, you know, early 2000s. So you did that for five years. What ultimately led to you saying, you know what, I want to go and do something on my own. What finally clicked or made sense for you? Yeah, so I've worked for internet.com between 2000 and 2005 and I was a developer. and 2005 and I was a developer. So we had like over a hundred websites and these websites were all about like,

things like web development, about all kinds of technologies stuff. And while I was working there as a developer, like one of my tasks was to create these online forms for our editors. So I would create these contact forms, surveys, questionnaires, contest forms, payment forms, all kinds of forms. And at that time, I kind of hated it because it wasn't very challenging, just typing HTML to create forms or just handling them back end to send emails, things like that.

So I really didn't enjoy creating forms at that time. So I wanted to find a product that can actually do that. And I searched for it. There were some products, but they were well done. So at that time, it clicked on my mind that if I ever start my business, this is the product I could build. So at some point, I decided, okay, I can actually make this. I can really do a good job. I can make a great product and you know and I understood the reason people would use that because I've been like building like hundreds of forms for our editors so I knew like what they needed so I actually knew the knowledge so I think that's very important if you're an entrepreneur like having that first-hand knowledge about like what people need what people are asking for is really useful. So with that knowledge, I quit my job, I forged it, and I built JotForm.

And the first year, I made it all free. Because I wanted to get as many people to use it as possible. It was all free. Even today, it's free until you receive like hundreds from submissions per month. It's all free. And we have like 25 million users now because we have this free version. And that's the biggest marketing tool you can have. Giving something away for free is like the biggest marketing tool you can have. And we still have that today.

I love that. So hooking the user in with something free, some sort of offer upfront. Let's back up. I mean, you go, you're like, hey, I know this product. I know this is a good solution. I'm going to go do it on my own. Was that scary at all? Walk us through the schooling. I don't know. You know, 19 years ago is, is, it's hard to remember all the emotions that we're going through, but like walk us through the emotions of like making that initial leap, because I know a lot of the listeners on here are probably in similar situations. They're like, I want to be an entrepreneur.

Currently an intrapreneur in my current business. I have a skillset, but I'm a little, like there's no security in going and doing this on my own. So like walk us through how that went down for you. Yeah. So I was working in this basement in like all these, within these cubicles. So at internet.com.

And I remember going up two stairs to my manager. I remember walking up those stairs and I was feeling like... My legs were shaking actually. I was like, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? This was my dream job. And when I graduated college, I studied in the US. Computer science was my dream. Working on the internet sector, being computer science was my dream. Like working on the internet sector, like being a developer was my dream.

I reached all those dreams. And now why am I like just quitting this and just like, you know, like I was asking myself. What kind of money were you making that time in this dream job? I mean, obviously 2005 completely different than 2024, but what kind of money were you making in the US? I think I was making like $75K, something like that. Which I paid money.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's great money. Yeah. But it's the same thing. I was kind of afraid, but I also had this kind of experience doing my own products on the site. That actually gave me the confidence because while I was working there full time, even before I worked there full time, when I was a student, I would create these open source products, I would give them away. And I learned so much about building products. And then I started selling them on this side as well. So I actually learned about things like SEO, marketing, customer support, things like that. Because I did that for a long time, I also kind of had that confidence that I could do this. I could do this because, you know, I'm already,

I was actually earning, you know, as much as I earned at my full-time job when I quit my job. So I kind of had like this infinite runway. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, so that actually, that gave me confidence to be able to quit. And the other thing is, it's not just about the money, it's about learning.

I never recommend first-time founders to just quit their jobs and just start building a product. That's very stressful. You don't want that stress while you're building your product. So what you want to do is like do it on the side. Do it as a like a side job where you can actually earn, where you can actually learn all the skills you because there's like so many skills you need to learn to become a successful entrepreneur and the earlier you can start the better. So don't just wait for

like you know I will quit my job one day and I will start my business. Start it now. You don't need to wait for it. Like you can just even if you work like one hour a day, that's the amount of learnings you will have will accumulate. And when you quit your job, you will have all the experience you need to actually do a good job. And you will also have the confidence confidence and if you can actually start building your product beforehand that also helps so that you can focus on like growing your business as opposed to like starting from scratch. Couldn't agree more. I think there's too much unnecessary risk, right? Like a lot of people associate being an entrepreneur with risk which there's very much so risk involved with being an entrepreneur, but like hedged risk and proper risk is, you know, absolutely

necessary. And so this actually ties into like one of our previous episodes when we talked about like the side hustles of that you can be building on the side. Each one of us have 168 hours in a week. Most of us dedicate 40 of that to our jobs, to our economics, and going and growing. Then you have 40 hours dedicated to sleep, another 20 hours dedicated to family. There is time. There is always time if you prioritize what you have going on to be able to go and do exactly like Aiteken said, go and do exactly like I taken

said go and just build your own product on the side right there's an it's known there's no need to go and just immediately put all your eggs in one basket and take all the risk when you can get paid to be educated I am a big proponent just as you I taken that like go and get a paid education, learn from other people, see what you're good at, identify the ways that you can go and impact the marketplace and do it on somebody else's risk and somebody else's die. And so and then the other thing I would point out here is that like sometimes entrepreneurship isn't that sexy. Like your product doesn't have to be that sexy. Forms? There's nothing like super, like, oh man, this is the best thing in the world or so amazing or awesome or whatnot.

I'm sure you saw that. You're just like, this is just something that people need and I'm good at it and I can go and provide a solution that's better. It just goes to prove that successful entrepreneurship isn't necessarily in the product. It's the dedication, the practice, the team building, those type of things. You go and you launch this thing and you initially start giving it away for free. And I'm assuming you're probably still running some of these side hustles that are bringing other money or how did that go down? Exactly. So while I was you know building job form, I actually

continued the same way I did before I quit my job. So instead of going to my full-time job, I would actually start working on job forms. So I was living in Brooklyn at that time. I would just like I would go to office. I would just go out and start working in a cafe in Brooklyn Heights. And I would walk the Brooklyn Bridge to Manhattan. And I would just spend all my day working from different cafes and start building job form that way.

And so it was all fun, but at the same time, I would still work on my customers. I would still take care of my existing customers. But I dedicated my time to the new product because I really believed in this product would be successful because I saw the need. And the other thing is like the other products I built, all these side gigs, they didn't have this growth curve. Like they were kind of stuck in

slow growth. So that's also anything you learn when you do things on the side. What kind of business model doesn't work? For example, selling software is like a single copy, single version, doesn't really scale, doesn't work because you have to find a customer for every sale. But when you build a subscription software, when you build a service that people pay every month or every month, every year, that scales because if your product is good, if you don't have churn, if you have higher retention rate, it's going to snowball. It's going to start very slowly. And for example, the first year, it was all free, right? 2006, I released JotForm. It was all free, but I was getting like I was alone at that time, like just subscription,

like free users gradually. But in 2007 some I worked on some paid paid like plan version for that features so when I released that it's that I got like 500 subscribers which and at that time it was just $9 a month so it was only like 4500 per month but it. But it wasn't big. Because the product was good, because people were ensuring that it continued to increase over the years. And so, even today, we have customers who have been with us for more than 10 years, for a long time. And it's very important. Because in a subscription product, in a product that people pay as they go along, you have that motivation to keep them happy because it adds up.

And that's a great business model. But when you have to find a customer for every sale, it just doesn't add up. And instead of making existing customers happy, you're focused on the new sales all the time. And that's just, you know, I prefer working on the quality of my product as opposed to just, you know, making flashy, you flashy, trying to find new customers. For sure. I love that. So initially, you had that free product. When you made the conversion and started offering the $9 a month, how many free subscriptions did you have active at that time, we had like 15,000 free users. And then, you know, once I released that paid version, I was able to convert like 500 to them, to the paid version.

I remember the, as soon as I announced the new paid version, right, half an hour later, someone from Spain... It was very early in the morning. So someone from Spain was the first customer. Then someone from the UK, I believe, and then from the East Coast. And then, you know, all these subscribers trickling in. And it was a great feeling. Even though they were just paying nine dollar it was an amazing feeling yeah well let's let's dig into a little bit more granular so I mean you bootstrap this thing for the last 19 years and you've slowly added you know different products or different features to your product slowly added employees, slowly added these things, right? Like

how have you been able to say so focused? Because I'm imagining there's been distractions or been other opportunities that have been presented over the last 19 years. How have you been able to just make sure you hone in and continue down this path of like, this is our strategy, this is how we go to market, this is what I'm dedicated to. Yeah. I remember one of our developers once came to me, this was a very long time ago, and he said, okay, yeah, we rewrote just from like the third time. So are we gonna work on something new now?

And I said, like, you know, look at these users, look at these customers, all these requests coming from these customers and how they use our product that we can never, we can never finish with this product. We have to continue working on it, improving it. And what happened was over time, we discovered that we are not just a form builder, right? In the beginning, it was just like, can we build a product that can let people,

like they can just go and build their own forms on their own easily, like just make the easiest form builder. And just that was our focus. But over the years, like we started seeing that people were actually starting to, like we started seeing like people weren't just using it to create forms. Like People don't just create forms so that they can collect data. It's actually about some workflow. It's about some task. It's about some work that needs to be done. So someone is making a request for something.

Someone is registering for something. Someone is making a payment to purchase something. There are just so many use cases for forms. And, and people aren't just filling the forms just to send the data because there is just like so many things happening after that. There's a workflow. So we started seeing our job as to helping people automate all the things they do once they get the data with the form. So we start building all these additional features and products. So for example, recently

we released JotForm Signs. So it's a full-blown e-signature product, very similar to DocuSign because we saw that people who actually had forms, they also needed e-signatures. So we also released this product called JotForm Apps, where you can actually create this mobile app from your forms. Let's say within your company, you have all these forms. And we actually found the idea because we had the need. I was asking people, OK, where is this form? Where is this HR form? Where is this like, you know, Rookhast form? I was

asking people about all these forms because we were using our product as much as possible but I was always losing the URLs for the forms. So we asked why don't we create a tool where you can actually add all these forms. You can even add more stuff. You can add links. You can add all these things. You can build an app, just a no-code product. And then you can even let people install this app on their mobile forms or if they want to use it from browser, they can use it online. So we came up with the idea for JotForm apps and that became very successful among our users as well. So there was a need for document generation because once you fill out form,

all that data can be used to create this PDF file to create a document so that you can store it as a durable document, you can send it to other people. So we created this PDF designer where you can actually create your documents. So we added all these tools because the goal was not just to help them create forms, but to help people with all their workflows. And because I've been involved so much with this automation stuff, I actually wrote a book about it. Last year, I released the book, Automate Your Busy Work, and it became a Wall Street Journal bestseller.

And in that book, I actually talked about what I learned as an entrepreneur automating all the things, like all the busy work, because that was a big struggle for me. What I learned automating the stuff, what is the company, what kind of things we automated that actually resulted in so much more productivity and how we helped people automate their busy work with our product. So all those things that like because I have been involved with automation so much that it just makes sense to write the book about it and I think it turned out to be a great book and it was released last year and it found a great audience.

Awesome. So this is what I'm hearing is like, you know, traditionally entrepreneurs are very ADD and easily distracted with what we call the shiny object syndrome, right? Like new opportunities arise and we say yes to that instead of learning how to say no. And so what you're explaining to me and what I've also been able to find success in as an entrepreneur is identifying new opportunities that still fit within the scope of our focus, right? Still fit within the hole that we are digging to hit oil and being able to find joy and passion and creating new things that fit within that focus. Because I think where a lot of entrepreneurs fail is they want these new opportunities

and new ways to grow and create and develop and use this. Because as entrepreneurs, we're just going crazy with ideas. We're always trying to think of all the new ways to improve and everything like that. The issue for where it becomes an issue is when that's outside of your focus. When all of a sudden, like I'm focused on developing software and I have this idea about real estate or I have this idea about a physical product that I could go and sell or somebody else comes to me and says hey do you want to invest in this and help consult me on this or

whatever it is and so and in our minds we believe that we are capable of anything like we can go and be successful in anything we've done because up until this point we've had success everything. And so the temptation is to say yes to those type of opportunities that are outside of our focus. And then we get distracted and we start digging new holes and we never eventually hit oil, right? We never hit that compound.

And so what I'm hearing from you is that you know that this is your hole and you're just finding new ways to drill, right? New ways to be able to access oil from the same hole, whether that's new features in forms, a DocuSign type of product or whatever it is. And so, that's what I'm gathering from this, from the principle. A principle of success, of consistent effort over and over again requires new creation within the same focus. Would you agree? Exactly. And when you have customers, when you have

And when you have customers, when you have so many customers, so many users, millions of users, that even if I created a new product, the amount of value you provide is multiplied by the number of people who will actually get that value, right? So if you already have like, you know, 25 million users here, like, why don't you just go and like, provide more value to them, as opposed to like, come up with a new idea and try to like, just get new users, new customers to the new idea, which is very difficult. So it's, I kind of found a way to kind of satisfy that entrepreneurship that's needed by actually building all the additional features, products to the existing users. And that's a great way to actually kind of provide value to your existing users. And we also recently released our enterprise version. And for the first, I believe, 12 years of JotForm, probably more than 12 years, there was no salesperson.

It was all SaaS service. So people would come to JotForm and they would use a free version, upgrade to the paid version. It's great. And I'm kind of an introvert. So it's just like, I never liked sales. Like I'm not a salesperson. So it's, and I also didn't know any salespeople.

So it's just, this was good and comfortable. But I remember once, there was this like big company customer who, you know, who asked me like, hey, come to our office, you know, we want to buy like we want to pay you a lot and just, you know, buy just for like, for the company. And I was like, you know, and I was at that time, like I had some other stuff, like I didn't, you know, I didn't feel like, you know, taking a plane and going there, like,

and then I lost that customer. That was a potential big client and I didn't do it. And we actually didn't have a product for a whole company anyway. So it's just we were lacking something. And that's when I came up with the idea of JotForm Enterprise. Okay, why don't we create a product for bigger companies, for companies who want to use it as a team, like for users who want to use it as a team,

like who want to collaborate, who want to share data as a team, like for users who want to use it as a team, like who want to collaborate, who want to, you know, share data among each other, share forms among teams, things like that. So and like, actually learning sales, like building a sales team, right, it was something completely like something I didn't know I what. So this was 2018. So we created the JotForm Enterprise product. So I had my first sales hire. And this was coming from a big SaaS company, like, you know, big title, like very knowledge, he came in and he couldn't sell a single job form to a company. So it's, it didn't work out. Like he kind of came from a big company. So he did like he didn't have that like, he didn't have the start, start up He didn't have the start-up knowledge or just starting from scratch. So that didn't work out.

So I hired someone else and she also didn't work out. She couldn't figure out a way to sell jazz form, but we were also improving the product. So I promoted someone from within the company that also didn't work out. So like three times I failed to actually because I have no sales experience. I didn't even know what kind of salesperson would be the first sales person. What would be the best person? So finally, from my network, I was will introduce the fourth person. And this person actually had experience helping startups build sales teams. He actually did that before. He knew what to do and he knew how to sell it.

So he came in and I was ready to give up. I was like, hey, I don't want to fire anybody else. Why don't we just do it like a three-month deal? Let's have a quota for three months if you can start job for enterprise. Then that's great. We can continue. And if you don't like it, it's also. So we just started as a contractor for three months.

And then he came in and he did an amazing job. He passed the quota and then he actually, he also worked really well with our team. So we built all the necessary features, compliances, because there are now companies like Shell who use JotForm and those kind of big companies, they need compliances, like they need a SOC 2 compliance. They need some, if they are healthcare company,

they need HIPAA compliance. So there are all these different kind of stuff that's needed if you are selling to enterprise. You cannot have that if you don't have a team that can actually work on all those things. So he came in, he built the team. So now we have like three new salespeople and just for enterprises now, 30% of our revenues.

It started from zero to 30% of our revenues. It started from 0 to 30% of our revenues in just like five years. So I would extract a few principles from that story right there. So first and foremost, I think as entrepreneurs, we've got to be consistently identifying new ways that we can go to the market. You had gotten is our this is our go-to-market Strategy we give away the product for free we bring on We bring on users ones II Z they upgrade from the free version to the paid version We don't do enterprise, but then you started like exploring this idea So one like you got to constantly be exploring and thinking about ways that you can

improve your go-to-market strategy, whether that's an affiliate, whether that's an enterprise, bringing in a sales team. The other principle that I would extract is don't be afraid to get uncomfortable doing something that you're not comfortable doing, right? Like you obviously didn't have the sales background, you weren't comfortable doing it, you hired people, they didn't work out, right? And you're in this uncomfortable situation where you believe it might work and you're just kind of making those tests and that's also very important as an entrepreneur that you have to be doing these things that get you out of the normal day-to-day comfort and get you uncomfortable. A few other principles I would extract is like the law of keep going.

When you think you're on to something, don't give up right before you hit gold. It would have been really easy to shut it down after the first, the second, the third person didn't work out. And so which, which leads me to my last principle is like, if you're going to, as an entrepreneur, if you want to go and explore something, hire the best people, whether that's a contractor or that's an outside consultant that actually have experience doing the exact thing that you want to do, right? Not just somebody that worked for an organization that did what you want to do, but like that has the real-world experience maybe like in this example doing it as a

startup, building a sales team from scratch, going and doing that grinding mode because there are people out there that are available that want to that and in and this is all just a lack of marketing marketing is what makes the world go around what you want is out there and available and what they want is out there and available and it's just a lack it's just a lack of knowledge about each other and the opportunities that exist which is essentially a form of marketing and so like understand that there are solutions, be willing to take the risk,

stick to it even when it hurts or you feel like you can't fail another time. But yeah, just so many incredible principles to be extracted from that great story right there. Yeah. I mean, you have to make those mistakes to learn from them. Sometimes there's no shortcut. Yes, yes. I take it, man, it's been a pleasure going through this. You've had incredible growth. What has been the hardest thing about bootstrapping and slow growth over the last 19 years to

get to the position where you're at today? I guess It's about and before I started job form I never managed anybody right I was a individual Contributor as a developer in my previous job but luckily I Hired my first employee the first year, second employee, second year. So literally, for the first five years, I only added like one person to the company every

year. So learning management was really important for me. But I will say, I think it's, it's also about the time management. So how you use your time. So I remember a few years into JotForm, and we were like three, four employees at this time. And I was spending all my day, I was the only customer, there wasn't any customer support. So I was spending all my day doing customer support, answering emails, accounting, legal, HR, ordering supplies for the office. Like I was busy with the busy work. But what I really liked was working on my product.

And that's what actually made the difference in the longterm. And I was really struggling. And right at this moment, something else happened. Google actually came to the ring. Google forms was released. So now I'm like, I'm not really moving forward my product, I'm struggling. I'm spending all my day with busy work. And now I have to compete with Google. So it was, it was a turning point for me. I think that's when I decided, okay, I have to change something. And the solution was automation and delegation. So for example, I went to Upwork at that time, it was called ODesk. I went to Upwork and I hired these like, support employees,, contractors from all over the world

and just handed over the support work to them. And I started automating all the work, all the HR work, I started automating them. The way we developed our product, we streamlined and automated everything. So it's just... And I was spending like maybe like five, six hours a day and I was able to automate many things I do. And I was able to reduce that to like one hour a day. I think that was the biggest one.

So automation and delegation really saved me and, and just, I learned to focus on the most important thing. And every morning, I make sure that I just launch this full screen text editor, IE Rider on Mac, and just a blank screen, blinking, white blinking cursor. And then I start typing, what's the most important thing I can work on today? And just if nothing comes to my mind, I will just write whatever comes to my mind. And at some point, like, okay, this is the really important thing.

And sometimes there are like urgent emails there and I don't check my emails, I don't check the social media or anything. I just make sure that I focus on that most important thing for the day. And that's the most important thing. And for those that didn't pay attention right there, we're going to recap this. First of all, you cannot busy yourself with $25 an hour work. Right? If it can be delegated and automated to somebody that can do that for $25 or less, you've got to get rid of it off your plate because this is where, this is the biggest launching

pad for any type of entrepreneur. When they shift from doing busy work to the thing that they're most passionate about, the thing that gives them purpose, joy, happiness. What is the question that he types on there? What is the most important thing that I can do today? Especially in a day of distractions, there are so many distractions. This cell phone right here was made to distract us push notifications social media notification email notification all these notifications that lead from one thing to another and it's so easy to get

wrapped up in the scrolling to like literally waste two three hours on doing mundane work or mundane like just even being distracted. You may not even be doing work versus what is the most important thing that I could be doing today. And I, I take that is like the, the greatest advice that you could give. I appreciate you sharing that with the world, with our, uh, with our listeners, with our viewers, um, that that is, uh, that is really like the biggest is really like the biggest gem from this podcast. Where is the best place that our people can support you, follow you on social media? Where's the best platform for that?

I'm on Twitter. I'm also writing on, you know, Forbes fast company entrepreneur. And I also have a website, my first name last name.com I taking time calm, where I have, you know, you can get like the free first chapter of my book, you know, read it for free. And like, all my articles all my blog posts are there as well. So yeah, that's where you can find me. So you guys heard that. Head on over to itekintank.com. That's A-Y-T-E-K-I-N-T-A-N-K dot com.

You can get to first few chapters of or first chapter of his book for free. Go ahead and support him. Buy his new book. He's got a new book that he's going to be releasing in the next 12 to 18 months, which we're super excited about. Super excited to see where this journey goes. I mean, the fact that 600 employees only growing from here. I know the revenues are really high and we're going to maybe disclose them on a future episode, which I'm super excited about.

Thank you so much for your time today. I think until next time.