Next Level Pros - #160: How Alex Hormozi Cheats the System // Next Level Pros Podcast

Episode Date: August 20, 2025

Welcome to a new episode of Next Level Pros! In this episode, host Chris sits down with Alex Hormozi, founder of Acquisition.com, to dive deep into the mindset, strategies, and lessons behind building and scaling successful businesses. Whether you’re an entrepreneur, business owner, or aspiring operator looking to level up, this episode is packed with actionable insights on growth, investment, and the realities of the entrepreneurial journey.Highlights:“I just enjoy playing the game… I know I would do it if it didn’t make money.”  “At some point you have to expand… I was just in a pond, and everyone else was going after an ocean.”  “If I’m afraid to take a risk now, I’ll never be able to take a risk later.”  “You have to provide value—make them an offer so good they feel stupid saying no.”  “This is the point where most people quit, and that’s why they don’t quit.”Timestamps:00:00 – Introduction02:55 – The Obsession with Business: Playing the Game  04:48 – Transition from Gym Launch to Acquisition.com  09:08 – Defining Moments: Leaving Corporate for Entrepreneurship  12:45 – The Hardest Decision: Disappointing Family to Follow Your Path  21:03 – How to Work for Free and Actually Add Value  33:13 – What Acquisition.com Looks for in Investments  36:47 – Identifying Founders with Big Visions  45:54 – The Discipline to Say No: Focusing on the One Thing  1:04:49 – Advice for Tough Times: Why You Shouldn’t QuitWant me to teach you how to grow your business? Text me! 509-374-7554Want access to more of my content? Click the link below for all of our latest updates and events!https://linktr.ee/nextlevelprosWant to be a guest on our show? Apply here!https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1YlkVBSluEKMTg4gehyUOHYvBratcxHV5rt3kiWTXNC4/viewform?edit_requested=trueWatch my latest PodcastApple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/next-level-pros/id1687030281Spotify- https://open.spotify.com/show/1e0cL2vI1JAtQrojSOA7D2?si=95980cd4e55a437aYouTube- https://www.youtube.com/@NextLevelPros

Real quick, before we dive in, I want to give you some context on this episode. This conversation was originally recorded back when I was running my first podcast, The Founder Podcast. It was before Next Level Pros even existed. I sat down with some serious heavy hitters, entrepreneurs, operators, leaders, and we unpack real tactical stuff that still holds up today. So instead of letting these episodes collect dust, we're bringing them back here on the Next Level Pros channel. You'll notice the branding's a little different, maybe the style too, but the lessons, still gold.

especially if you're in the trades or home service space and trying to build something real. Let's get into it. What's up, everybody? We today, we are joined by a good friend of mine, Mr. Alex Armosey. Alex is in the middle of building a massive empire with Acquisition.com. Many of you guys have seen him in his social media, his YouTube, Instagram, stories. all the goodness. He never skips dessert. The man is a protein fiend, but more importantly, a business phenom. So one of the best ways I've ever introduced Alex, if anybody ever asked

my opinion on Alex, I say, man, this guy has an Ivy League type knowledge with street, mixed with street smarts, which is a very rare breed indeed. And I think on top of that, I love I love the fact that he doesn't look like that at all. The fact that he just doesn't care what anybody thinks, always rocking the tank top, the mixture. He doesn't care what anybody thinks. Welcome to show, Mr. Alex. Thanks for having me, man.

I appreciate the intro. That was one of the most distinct ones, and I'm proud of both sides. Good deal, dude. So, dude, me and you, Alex, we go back. I was looking through my text messages. We met about four years ago at a mastermind down in Utah of all places and got to know you and your wife.

And, you know, the thing that always impressed me is just how just like straightforward to the point, never beat around the bush, you know, very logical. and I love that about your relationship with business, your relationship with people, your relationship with everything. So, dude, obviously you've completely shifted gears in your career. You went and built this amazing business with gym launch. Now you're building Acquisition.com. You got a really cool podcast.

What is pushing and motivating you right now? I just enjoy playing the game. I think that's, like, the biggest part of it. And so, like, I write books about business. I make content about business. And when I'm not doing those things, I'm doing business. It's like, that's what I think about all day. And probably, like, you, like, you go to a restaurant.

You're like, man, how many tables do you think they turn through here? And, like, you know, what do you think they get these, you know, these shrimp at? And then you're like, huh, like, I wonder where they're recruiting the staff from. And, like, I wonder how they market. Like, because how did we. hear about this. Was it, Yelp Ed? Now, how do we hear? No, somebody told us that. You know, like, you start reverse engineering stuff. And I remember listening to, I think it was a little Wayne interview. And he was like, I can't stop rhyming. He's like, I just, I can't stop rhyming.

He's like, it's this like obsession. And I feel like it's kind of the same thing for me with business in general. It's like, I just, I just like it a lot. And it happens to be, happens to have a monetary outcome, but I know I would do it if it didn't make money because I do lots of things that are business-related that don't make me money. Absolutely. That's what I love to you right now. You do a lot of things. Dude, that's sweet.

I love, I love your, you know, what you bringing up like, hey, I go into a restaurant. I start thinking about things, which, by the way, Dude, there are some places that have to be cover-ups for the mafia because, like, for example, Arby's. Dude, Arby's in my, like, there is never a car there, and I go there and I'll eat a turkey sandwich because it's like one of the only quick things that I can get that are, you know, somewhat good. Just like, dude, there's no way. There's no way these guys aren't a cover-up for drugs, for the mafia, because this has got to be a laundering scheme. I definitely have seen some things in like shopping centers. That makes sense.

But yeah, man, I mean, that's what I've been up to primarily. We've been, you know, massively investing in media overall because, you know, the overarching idea, like when I decided to step down from gym launch was that gym launch, in my opinion, was going to eventually become an investment company. So, you know, at a certain, you know, there's 50,000 microjim owners in the U.S. And so we had already talked to 20,000 when I stepped down. So like, you know, and I followed a lot of the advice that, you know, actually, I'll rewind for a second. I'll tell you a story that you may, you may not know this.

So when I went to, we had that little meetup, it was like you meeting like six other people at your cabin, right? And so some of my audience listened to this like when I talked about that meetup, it was actually with Chris. And together, it was like the eight of us were doing half a billion a year in revenue, which I thought was. Pretty cool. You know what I mean? If you just added up all the business, it might even been hiring that. But it was at least half a billion a year in revenue. And it was interesting from an experience for me because that that meeting was actually one of the reasons I decided to sell gym march. And the big takeaway for me, like even though we talked about lots of stuff, yeah, we talked about lots of, you know, strategies, tactics, hiring people, scaling, blah,

blah, that kind of jazz. But the biggest takeaway I had was I looked at everybody in the room who was doing more revenue than I was. And, you know, I was like, okay, is it there a skill set that I'm lacking? Like, what am I missing, right? And the biggest thing that I saw as my takeaway was I was just in a pond and everyone else was going after an ocean. And so I just needed to, like, I mean, VC guys know this because they look at, you know, tech companies that are going to invest in.

The first question they ask is, what's TAM? You know, what's total adjustable market? And I'd never asked that question because when I come into the business game, everybody was like niche, niche, niche, niche, niche. And I do think that's 100% the right advice when you're starting out. But at some point, you have to expand. And so I had two directions I could have expanded in. So one is like I continue to expand more broadly in fitness.

So I go after health clubs, which is exactly what gym lunch is doing now is they're going after big, you know, bigger, you know, big chain gyms, what I call like facility leasing gyms. It's like lots of equipment, lots of treadmills, I kind of thing. We were all service-based facilities. Or we could go down market, go after like personal trainers and fitness, fitness enthusiasts. And so like those are like kind of the directions there. But at that point, I've been in fitness for a decade. And I think, you know, if I hadn't sold, then I could have continued to go down that path, but I didn't want to be known as the fitness guy.

Like, I already had felt kind of tired of being known as the gym guy. And you can make an argument that that would have been a better move because I've known the space and you just get deeper and deeper knowledge and that becomes your competitive advantage. But in September of 19, I started making general business content. I stopped making content about gybs. And so it was actually almost at that time that things started growing for me. And so like my podcast, I went from talking about only gyms to, talking about business and then it started growing even though I'd been doing it for like

two or three years at that point and then and then I think a year later after that I started making my first YouTube videos and so those were kind of like the first things that I started doing from a general business perspective because the general business market's a lot bigger than the gym market and I wanted something that could that would never stop compounding yeah that was like one of the big lessons that I had from gym launch I've talked to a lot of you know business owners that have a not like the perfect vehicle when they start their first business because they didn't think about it like I didn't think about it I was just trying to not be broke um but like playing playing it out and thinking like what's the uh like you have to have one or multiple compounding mechanisms

within the business in order for it to be able to reach like you know I mean reach without force right like could I could I you know get to a thousand goal callers like sure I could but like could I take that same effort and allocate it somewhere else and get it. a higher return. And so that's that's ultimately why we started doing all the content stuff. I saw that media has a huge compounding effect, like your audience itself compounds. So it's like 10% more people find it out of me every month. And like when you have 10 people, you go to 11, but when you have 10 million, you go to 11 million. And it just takes time. And so that was kind of that. Right. That was one of the big reasons. Super, super cool. So dude, for my audience that may not

know your whole story let's let's rewind i know i know there was like a big factor like you went to the ivy league school you were planning on following in in the footsteps of your father as far as being a professional right i know your dad was in the medical field but you were going to go i think you worked for like a government contractor or whatnot and like walk us walk us through kind of some of those defining moments that got you to launching a gym and then ultimately becoming a business Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, so I was going to say guru, but I'm like, you know, don't love that word, but yeah, so I, you know, I graduated three years from Vanderbilt because I just did extra credits

and did summer work and whatnot so I could get ahead. And then I got a consulting job at a boutique strategy firm that did defense contracting to the space cyber intelligence, or at least those are the projects that I worked on. It looked really good on paper. It sounded great at coxoparties, but I really did not enjoy the work. And, you know, being where I'm at now, I would look back and probably just tell myself, like, maybe you should need to switch companies. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, it's not that I didn't necessarily enjoy the work. I could have just been like the three people I saw all the time or maybe, like, you know, there's a lot of other variables, but I extrapolated that to like, I don't want this to be my life, which was true. and I saw what the partner of the firm was what their life looked like and I was like if that's what 20 years from now looks like or three years from that looks like I don't want that life and so I was pretty I was pretty depressed at that point just it just sad that like life wasn't working out the way I thought it was going to even though I had done all

the things that I thought I was supposed to do and so I started thinking what do I actually like and I knew I wanted to start a business and so I started applying to business schools And the first question on the Harvard or it was either booth or whatever. One of the schools was, how will a booth MBA help your long and short-term goals? And it's like a standard question. It's not like, I mean, it's not a complicated question. But I ended up staring at like three days. Yeah, and staring at three days and being like, I don't know if this is going to help my short and long-term goals where I was out right then.

I was two years out. I was two years out of college. You know what I mean? So I was 23, not even. I think I was 22. when I was thinking about applying because I just wanted to change. But I thought about it for a few days and I was like, you know what, I think I think rather than foregoing two years of income and incurring $120,000, you know, in debt to do this,

I could take the $50,000 I have saved up and start a business and like learn, you know, that amount and median income coming out of business school at the time was $120,000. And so I was like, I just got to get to $10,000 a month from my own savings with a business to then like, kind of equates it too. And so, you know, I was like, if I have no kids, I have no wife, like, if I'm afraid to take a risk now, like I'll never be able to take a risk later. And transparently, I still think the hardest decision I've ever made was pretty much off

today. Like, for sure, it was still the hard situation. How old were you at that time? I was 22 when I quit. So I was 22 years old. Didn't want to disappoint my dad. You got through school pretty quick. I mean, so you're 22.

You're considering going to. getting your MBA or whatnot and that's that's when you and you said that that's the hardest decision like talk us through that like why was it the hardest decision well for me it was just I didn't want to disappoint my dad you know it was interesting because like the happiest time my father's life was the saddest in mind you know what I mean like I had done everything that he had told me to do up to that point um and I was living 100% the life that he wanted me to live rather than the life that I wanted to live and so I mean and for anybody who has like a parent or an or a brother or whatever it is that you're trying to live up to.

I mean, it was tough because, like, you know, I was one of the approval of my dad. And it was, like, the closest time that I ever had to, like, having it. And he was pumped. You know, we'd go out to get lunch, like, two days or three days a week. I moved close enough to home that, that we could do that. And so he was like, he got to, you know, brag about me to his friends. And that was, like, that was it for him, you know. And every time I'll talk about opening a business, he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

like do this and go to business school and then you know whatever and and i was like because he's always for formal education so he was like yeah business school that makes sense like go do that um but every time i bring it up you'd keep like you know like hey yeah yeah like come over we'll talk about it we'll talk about it we'll talk about lunch and so it's just like months and months and like kind of always having that kind of pulled away and then um when i decided to quit it took me six months from when i thought i wanted to quit to when i actually quit and it was like six months of like really tough every day like pacing like you know i mean like i lived alone just like calling everybody i knew probably to the point where everybody i knew like was sick of hearing me like talk about this

debate over and over again um and finally uh just made decision already yeah exactly and finally i just figured there there's two there's there's lots of little micro memos but one of them was like i was reading all these self-help books at that time so i was reading like you know a few books a week because i was like trying to like invest in myself and i realized after like my 20th self-help book that like my life was the same and some of the books said things that contradicted one another you know what I mean some of them were like manifest everything other ones are like don't manifest anything and I was like right and so um and so finally it was actually like downside yeah it was like downside decision making which is like what would end up

driving it for me just saying like okay well worst case scenarios I lose all the money that I've saved up and my business fails and then I can go to business school with like a real world experience and I can write essays and profit or whatever. So that was like, it sounds so simple now, but like that being my worst case

ended up being the thing that I decided to like lean a lot on. And so I still knew my dad wasn't going to be game for it. So I basically left without telling anyone. And I called my dad when I was halfway across the country because I drove to California.

And I called him up and I was like, hey, you know, just want to let you know, I want to start that business. And he was like, all right, we'll come over. We can talk about it. And I'd already had, you know, I'd already knew that he would just talk me off the ledge again. And so I was like, nah, I can't.

It was like, why? I was like, I'm in Ohio right now. I'm out of it. And then obviously at that point, you know, was very upset. And I said, why are you so extreme? You always, you know, like, you're never balanced. Like, you need to be more balanced. Oh, well, and the thing is, is a lot of people will hear that story and be like,

oh, well, it's cool. Your dad's probably happy with you now. but, like, we weren't cool for a while, like a long while, not like months, but like years. You know, we stayed in touch. Like, I'm a son. I was alive. You know, I shoot the occasional text, like, two, three minute call, like, once a month or something. But, yeah, so I looked at three different businesses I thought about starting, a frozen yogurt stamp, a test prep because I was good at taking standardized tests.

And, I mean, because I, because I'd gone from, like, a six, 30. I think on the GMAT when I took it the first time to a 730 or 740, which was like 20 points higher than Harvard Smithsport at the time to get it. Actually, so you just did here. So, like, yeah, so you're probably familiar with it. So I got a 730, some 40 on it. And all I did to prep for it was I bought every GMAP book at Barnes & Noble in like the test prep section.

They're all like these phone book thick things because I found this research study that said there's this line on a chart that said the more problems you do the better your score is like it was just straight up just like problems score and so I was like great I can like input out of output equations for like success like I can do that so I did four hours a day of problems for 16 weeks and that's what got my that's what got my score above Harvard's and so I was like okay I could I could teach people how to do that and so anyways I couldn't afford the yogurt thing because I when I called up like franchises and stuff they were like it's 250 grand I was like I don't know it's and

And so then it was just test prep and gyms because I was into fitness already. So I was like, I kind of have a little bit advantage there. And then I was going to do a test prep thing. And then I prepped all this stuff and I gave it to somebody who was going to be my partner. And then they ended up taking it and just doing it on their own. And so I kind of had like a bad taste in my mouth from that. So I was like, I guess I'm going to do fitness. And I had this lady at the gym that I was working out at asked me to meet her for lunch, like a month, like a much older.

And I was like, it wasn't weird. So anyways, I met her for lunch because she wanted to ask me about nutrition. So I was like, sure. And so I talked to her. for an hour about like what she could do with her food or whatever and then she handed me a check for a hundred bucks and i didn't like i didn't you know it wasn't i wasn't in business but the idea that this lady just gave me a check for a hundred dollars for like sitting down with her i was like well like i could make money and so there was a lot of like little things that happened and then um

when i finally decided to um leave was because i reached out to 40 different gym owners uh who looked like they were doing okay and i just said like can i just work for you for free And no one got back to me, except for one guy. And he said, yeah, you can work for me for free. And so I drove across the country to his gym. And I, like, showed up at the front door. And he was like, I was like, hey, I'm here. And he was like, I'm doing it right now.

Like, what's up, man? Yeah, like, she was like, well, where are you staying? I was like, I don't know yet. He's like, you mean you literally like drove directly to my gym? I was like, yeah. Like, I was, I didn't know. You know what I mean? And so he was like, he was like, he's like, you can stay at my place tonight.

but like you need to find someplace i was like i figured out and so the next morning he like went like stand up stood on a box and was like hey does anybody have an extra bedroom for this kid and he's like pointing at me like in the think of a little gym and this dude came up to me uh and i like worked out with that gym owner he had like a crew of three or four guys that he trained with in the morning at like 4 a m and so one of the guys i'd worked out with was like you can stay one of my spare bedrooms and so uh you know i paid a few hundred bucks a month in rent for one of these this guy's bedroom he wanted to get in shape he was like hey, just make sure I don't eat like crap.

And I was like, okay, I can do that. And that's, that was how I, how I got my, you know, got my foot into fitness. And as a, as a fun side note for the audience, like, like I was, I was working a white collar job, you know, on pace to be able to make, you know, 100 grand plus. And then, you know, obviously two years after business school, you know, scale up from there. And I went all the way back to basically being a trainer, which doesn't even require college education or the experience I had for, I think it was like, I don't know, 12 bucks an hour or something like that. I don't even know what I was getting made. And so, like, a lot of times I think you have to take some steps back if you want to start something new. I did I think I think that's such a key principle that a lot of people don't quite understand is like the value of experience in education in in doing what you want to go and build is worth so much more than the short term dollars that you're going to get paid and so that like I I love the idea of like going and working for somebody for free especially if that somebody is like an incredible mentor that can really catapult your

career right and and there's not a there's not a successful entrepreneur in the world that would turn down a hungry guy or girl that's like hey let me come learn and work for you for free and just you just mentor and I'll do whatever you say right like I mean everybody's going to take a piece of that and you know actually I want to give some caveats to this I think you'll you'll agree with me because I've given this advice a lot and I had um my training partner I was talking about a kid who came up to me and was like hey can I work for you free um and probably probably, you know, with your station and status that you're getting right now, you'll, you'll, you probably already do. But like, I have, you know, I probably get 50 a day people saying, like,

can I work for free for you or do something for free for you? And so two or three big caveats around this. Number one is that I recommend that if you're going to try and do this approach, you want to go to somebody who's one or two steps ahead of you. Like, you're not like, Elon Musk, if you're like, hey, Elon, can I get your coffee for you? Like, Elon doesn't need. you to get his coffee like it's not like he's going to sit down with you every morning give you a one hour coaching call because you gave him his coffee like people don't think about this right and there's this there's this issue that I see amongst poor people that think that their time is worth something and it's not there's no shortage of low skilled labor right and so um they have this idea that like

if I'm willing to do $30,000 a year work for you you now owe me all of your time because I'm giving you my time so my minutes are the same as your minutes but they're clearly not because you're pursuing me and i'm not pursuing you right and so caveat number one is like you want to go to somebody who supply demand of free labor is in your favor so if somebody who's one or two steps ahead you they probably don't have a lot of people saying they want to work for free right now that person might not have all the skills that Elon Musk has but they got more skills than you right and so it's like okay so number one is go after people who are just a couple steps ahead number two is you want to make them an offer that's so good that they feel stupid saying no because like I don't want people to get

this twisted like you're getting the better end of the deal right like if someone starts working with Chris and just shadows you every day right or shadows me every day like let's not pretend here like my life is not better off because you're in it now your life is going to be significantly better because I'm just like I don't want to sugar code like let's be real for a second right and so in order to do that like you have to provide value and so one of the things that I see and I get this in my DMs all the time, which is like, hey, I'd like to do this in exchange for working, you know, alongside you. And I'm like, no.

First off, like the whole principle of giving first is in an offer to give first. It is giving first, period, without expectation of something back. So it's like, what does Chris need? Well, Chris probably wants somebody to edit and cut his podcast or take his podcast clips and redistribute them. You don't offer to do that. You just do it and then send it to him. And then you keep doing it and keep sending it to him.

and I'll bet you that if you do that for 10, 50, 100 days straight, Chris will be like, damn, this kid is like really, really hungry. Like he's willing to continue. He took the initiative and figured out what I wanted, et cetera. Because the alternative of that, right, is that you come up and you say, hey, Chris, I want to work for you for free. And he says, what's the next thing he's going to say? He's going to be like, what can you do?

Right. And now what do you ask you Chris to do? You're asking Chris to work for you. Because we now have to figure out what you're good at. And we have to think all this, like I'm doing all this. work for you, right? Instead, it's like you have to show the initiative. You have to have some skill. You have to demonstrate that you have the skill and that you can identify a need for another person. Like, it's basic level. But that that basic level is a hurdle that most people won't jump

over. So I'm just like, I'm, I'm a little lit on this because I just happened yesterday. That is the best explanation. Oh, dude, I freaking love that. That is probably the best explanation I've ever been given with like the two caveats like because yes I've always believed the principle of like hey add value and whatever but man those freaking two caveats are 100% true because yeah if I have somebody come and be like to your exact point I have guys in my DMs or whatnot all the time but the people that actually create the value and give it to me you cannot deny that right you just can't deny it's it's absolutely phenomenal that's that's a great great concept And one of the costs that they don't quantify is how much your time is worth.

Oh, sorry. You're going? Yeah, I was like, one of the costs they don't quantify is how much your time is worth, right? So let's say right now, market rate, like any, you know, any CEO who wants a big exit says, hey, Chris, I'll pay you $25,000 an hour to like have your time, right? And so for you, it's like an hour of my time, market rate is $25,000, $35,000, whatever it is, right? And if the work that this person is doing for a whole year is $35,000 worth of work, if you ask me or you need an hour, hour a week of my time, right? I have to think about the opportunity cost of what my time is worth.

And so, like, you're actually, like, you have to make sure that the value you're providing is an excess of the time it's costing me. And the higher up the person is, the less of their time you're going to be able to take, not only because, like, it's really valuable, but, like, it's going to be a cost that you're never going to be able to overcome. If you speak an hour of my time, it's like, you've got to be able to make a million a year. And that's just at cost. That's break even. Like, I would like to get. get a return on my time, right? So you've got to be able to make 10 million a year for me, for me to give you an hour week in my time. I'm not going to, like, I'm not being a dick here.

I'm just saying like, that's just the math, right? And so the real real is the higher up. Yep. Yeah, the higher up the person is that you're trying to go after. You might have to do what we just said for somebody who works for Chris. So for one of Chris's leaders. And then you prove to that person that you're worth it. And then you get a seat. And then you have, then you get two or three steps closer and that's the idea is you keep trading up so that you can get closer to the person like i i can't reach out to elan musk and say i'll work for you for free because he wouldn't care like why is he going to care for you he'd be like Alex who Alex who no no i don't want him right yeah that's that's such good good good i freaking love it oh man so um um

Dude, I love how your stuff is just so black and white, right? Like, one plus one equals two or we ain't doing it, right? Like, it's just, there's no, there's no being around the bush. It, it makes it work. So, dude. So how does somebody, how does somebody get to Alex or Mosey, right? Like, like who, what value are you lacking that if like somebody offered, holy crap, man, I would give that guy an hour of my time. All right, two easy ways that you can identify what somebody ahead of you might want that you could offer them for free, right?

So number one is look at what they're currently doing and think is there are a way that I can do more of what they're doing or can I help them do it better. Now, I wouldn't say, hey, I think your stuff sucks. I can help you do it better. The amount of people who say that about my social media, like in my DMs are like, hey, I think you're really missing the mark here on this. They say from an account that has 500 followers to my million person account. I'm like, really, though? Like, do you think that's the angle you're going to try and take? Like, probably not the best strategy, right?

And so it's like, you want to see what I'm currently doing, do more. See, like, hey, you might need more clips of you, right? So I can help do that. And instead of saying it, you do it first, right? You don't say I can do more clips, just do it. Or you say, I think we can do them better because there's some trends that you're missing out on. Again, do it and show it, right? Show don't tell.

So that's number one, is looking at what they're currently doing. and can they do more or can they do a better? The second thing is looking at what they're not doing, but you think they should be doing. All right? So, for example, I don't have, I don't really email my list at all. Like, we have 1,000 people every day to join email list on Accusis.com.

And it's because I do want to make sure that anything I provide is exceptionally valuable, and I haven't had time to do it. So, like, I've sent, like, two emails in the last year. And so, like, somebody who could help take my words from other places and then craft them in the emails that are valuable, would be something that would be great for me they might notice that i'm not on Pinterest right like i'm not on Pinterest because i don't understand the platform and so like if you understand Pinterest and you want like then start making

Pinterest posts for me like talk about easy opportunities go somewhere i'm not and help me to like take the stuff already got and repurpose it like how much time is that for me zero how much value is it for me more than zero right because i'm not doing anything there right and so it's more better of what they're currently doing and then looking at other places that we can add new into the cart mix without them having any cost, right? So I'm incurring the cost of sifting, sorting, understanding the platform, and posting it on Alex's behalf. Now, I'm using this as an example, but the person might be going after might not be an

influencer or whatever. Like, they might have other needs. I'm just giving you, like, simple examples that someone can think through of like, okay, how do I make an offer for Alex? I love it. What are yours? So, yeah, what do you mean? Perfect, perfect.

dude man like yeah so so so right now man you to your exact point like like i'm not phenomenal at youtube right like i'm i'm just just getting going just getting going on youtube really starting to understand that platform it's a platform that i've avoided for for so long right instagram facebook known that for a while known how to to do the marketing and whatnot but yeah Pinterest i mean a lot a lot of the things that you're saying email i mean me me and you operate a lot very very similar right i don't email a list i don't i don't i don't post on Pinterest i don't you know all these all these things really starting to to get into you know and and for me it's like if you if somebody could come and help me figure out how to you know better better leverage my my time in in a lot of ways as

far as like identifying deals like bringing me deals to the to the table right because because i'm i'm in in a similar position as you where I'm I'm in deal mode right like looking and evaluating or whatnot if somebody went and actually sifted through a deal and said Chris this is the reason like hey not only am I bringing you a deal but I did all the due diligence and the research and here it is right like and can cut out a lot of the the my time my my effort or whatnot and and would actually physically bring it to me I mean that that right there you know whenever but whenever somebody like shows up and and does something that is of high value like it's it's really hard to turn that person down especially if like you said they are one to two steps behind you right if it's

some some employee that's never done a deal that's never done whatever and they're trying to bring a deal to me no way but if somebody's got a track record and it's like hey you know oh i i've done a thousand transactions over the last three years and i've done transactions with Alex i've done transactions with, you know, this, that, and the other person. And this is why you're going to want, you're going to look at what I have to offer or what I'm bringing you, the value I'm creating, like, I'm paying attention, right? And so, yeah, man, like, there's, there are so many, so many different ways. And people just aren't creative enough, right?

Like, it's, they just go and they do the stupid DMs that they copy and paste across 100 different influencers platforms, and they expect results, which, you know, you got to applaud the hustle, but it's like, dude, just, just think for a minute. Think like, would this, if I was sitting in your shoes, would this appeal to me? And, you know, and so it's, it's, it's interesting. Dude, so acquisition.com, obviously a big shift from, from gym launch. Like, what, what are, I love your play right now as like just create value, value, value, value, and basically have the natural like people reach out and then where you just have your, you're picking. What are you, what are you focusing on with Acquisition.com as far as like, if you had the

ideal company to invest in, what would that look like? So an ideal company to invest in, you know, for us is going to be doing, you know, two to $10 million in EBITA. they're going to have a founder that wants to, wants to scale. It's a big one. A lot of times people think they want to scale, but then like they don't actually want to scale. You know what I mean? Like they double or triple their income and then they're like, oh, wow, I'm good.

Like we had a company that we tripled the profit for. And then all of a sudden, like the CEO was golfing every day. And I was like, bro, what's up? He's like, dude, I'm making more money than ever made my entire life. I'm like, yeah, but like, I'm not in this for this triple. I'm in this for a 20x or 50x. That's why I want to do this, right? Like, we want to do big stuff.

And so it's like they have to have big eyes. They have to have big dreams of what they want to accomplish. They have to be coachable. And that's a big one because, and this is actually probably one of the hardest ones to find is that anyone who's achieved a certain level of success has some level of confidence that they're good. Right. But the problem is like, if you've never, you know, the difference between,

and you can appreciate this. The difference in a million a month and 10 million a month is oceans. You know what I mean? I mean, and they're like, oh, I'll just do 10 times of what I'm currently doing. It's like, it's not, because if it were, then you wouldn't be stuck right now. And so they have to, like, because there's really two aspects of this. So like, I'll rewind real quick. There's the business component and there's the founder, right?

Like, who are we doing the deal with? Now, for us, the founder matters a lot more than to like a traditional private equity firm. And because traditional private equity firms exclusive, almost exclusively by majority. We sometimes buy a majority, but if we buy a majority, it's like a microchroid. Like, you know, we're like 51. You know what I mean? And that might be because we have some sort of brand elements that we're tying into it or whatever reason, right? Like, of all the holdings, we only have one majority.

We will probably do more because that one's doing really, really well. But most of our deals are like, you know, 33, 49, 51. You know what I mean? That's kind of the range that we do. We have a couple early deals I did at 20. But there's the founder in the business. The founder is coachable. They are, have big dreams.

We like actually hanging out with them because this is like, if I don't look forward to talking to somebody, like, to me, that's a big red flag. Like, if during the process, like, any of us have any hesitations, like, we have this thing called the five flags, which is like if any of these five red flags come up, we stop the deal immediately. So we don't need, like, three strikes. We just need one, right? And so we just try and codify everyone who's looking at these things, right?

Like, if there's any kind of dishonesty or any discrepancy between numbers, if we feel like they have, like, a culture of, like, fear within their organization, those are all, like, signs for us that we're like okay this is probably not a good fit on the business side it's it's the more traditional stuff like it needs to be of a certain size which for us yeah so yeah if the business certain sides like I want to dive I want to go for it go for it yeah sorry we relax sorry I think there's a little lag here but I want to I want to you're good you're good dude so I want to dive a little bit deeper because you said you want to have somebody that has big goals, not someone when they triple, they're going to go be on the golf course.

So obviously, um, that can't be motivated by money because both you and I know that like money is essentially oxygen, right? Like once you have enough, it no longer motivates or pushes or whatnot. So like how do you identify the person that really is able to be driven past money, past accomplishment, past, uh, you know, a certain, uh, level of achievement. And how are you identifying that person? So it's usually in the language patterns that they'll present with. And so I'll give you a couple different examples that are different,

but still would accomplish the same thing. So some of them might be like, I really want to create an amazing place to work, right? That would be one where like, that's going to continue to grow. Like they might want to continue to get more and more people in and create an amazing place to work. If they said, I want to change this industry.

It's like, if you want to change an industry, it's going to, like, you have to have a big vision for it. If you want to change a community, same thing. if you want to change a local area like again big big impact some some of them it's like I just want to do something big or like their desire is to see what they're capable of like they want to test their own metal and so the whole point of the game for them is to continue to move the bar right that would be another example um and some of them just straight up say like I do want to make a ton of money and to me that's fine as long as that's true right like uh you know they're like I want to

get to a billion dollar company that's badass like that's fine I totally respect that but It's that they actually want that and they already have all their personal needs to fill. Like, if they already have their monetary needs fulfilled and they still say that, to me, I'm like, okay, this guy wants to run. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what are the, what are the red? So those are like the positive flags. What are the red flags that that you see of like somebody that will be satisfied? but usually they just talk in small numbers they talk in small numbers they talk in small number and this is from the business perspective the majority of our flags are actually about the founder so like the red flags for the business are you know just like okay is if it's going down if

it's not profitable uh if we don't see a path for growth if it feels too complicated if the if the founder has like shiny object syndrome so like they can't focus on one thing they're like oh yeah I've got this other business I want to start. This actually happens all the time. Somebody comes to us. They're like, I've got this business. I want to partner with you on. I've got these other three businesses too. And I'm like, close all those and I'll work with you on this. And so it's like, and sometimes guys will do that. And then they come back. I'm like, this guy's in it. Other guys are like, I can't do that because of X, Y and Z. And I'm like, cool. Then go, go chase five rabbits and hope you catch one. You know, and so like, are they focused? Are they coachable? Are they honest?

And honesty is like, you know, a lot of people think about it in terms of like black and white, like honest or dishonest, but it's really like, how honest are you? Like, if I hear a lot of exaggeration at all points in time, like everything just seems to be rounded. You know what I mean? Like, oh, we're amazing. Everything's, like, if you don't know where the bodies are buried, you're not close enough. Like, you should know where the bodies are buried in every single department. Right. And that's actually one of my limits test as the CEO. Um, not that I am anymore, but when I was CEO, if I don't know what's going wrong in every department, I'm too far away. Like, I should know, like, if something's just good, it means I don't, I don't know what's going

because of course there should always be opportunities for a prudence so i got to know what's happening so if i hear that kind of language um those are red flags and then just the big one of just they they seem um they talk in small numbers in terms of growth and they talk in small numbers in terms of uh the ultimate size that they want to grow the thing because like i can't i can't make you believe more than you do right right you know you bring up you bring up a great point of not only knowing where the bodies are are buried in different departments but being willing to admit where the bodies are buried, right? I think there's there's an aspect of business owners where they want to lie to themselves,

whether you're in sales, whether you actually own the business, whatever, you're managing a department, right? Like one of the most important things in order to enact change in order to improve and is actually being able to admit we're weak here, we suck at this, this, that, and the other than like getting real right you know non self-deceived right self-deception i think is like the greatest downfall of any CEO any manager any salesperson right like i i'm sure you'd agree with me on that um so if they if they're micro control tell me go ahead if they're like microcontrollers right like they they want to micromanage everything like that's another example of like

because the equal opposite right there's the pendulum like on one side they're too far way. They're too disconnected. The other one is they're too close to everything. And I want to make a point that I think is worth making. But they also have to have realistic expectations of value and they have to be willing to have a smaller slice of a bigger pie. Like a lot of people think they want that until they're like what they want to have the round shape of the pie. And I know you probably can can preach to this more than anyone that like the more people who are trying to build something, the bigger it can get. Right. Like you didn't have a hundred percent circle of your circle. And guess what? Elon Musk has 20 percent of Tesla.

right but that still made sense he made sense for him to give 80% to other people to help him build it and he can still become the wealthiest man uh you know on the planet and so like having to shift that belief in someone is really hard if someone doesn't already come in believing it like i'm willing to part with a chunk of the business in order to have a 10 times or 100 times more valuable thing right like if they don't believe that and then part of it is also um unrealistic expectations of valuation. So this is actually a pretty big one. So they hear about your exit, right? They hear about my exit. And they think, oh, that multiple applies to my $2 million profit, you know, company that is basically me with a couple of helpers running around. And if I die tomorrow, the whole thing

dies. Like, no. Like, it doesn't apply to that. Right. Because, and here's, here's a stat that might astound your audience. For businesses doing less than 10 million in sales and two, million and bottom line all right so those are the two numbers top line and two million bottom line the average like the median trading value is two and a half x on profit that's the median all right so like that's that's the middle right and and over 80 percent depending on the source so this is sba so small business administration is one who comes out with these stats have a have a have a huge component of seller financing and so that two and a half x is also not cash like that two and a half x is the total enterprise value and the person who's like so like let's say you

did a hypothetical deal with somebody doing one million dollars a year okay so one in profit all right so one million dollars a year in 12 months and let's say they got the median valuation so the person who's buying is adding no value they're just buying the asset they're coming in to do nothing right because that's who is buying this right if you and i might want to buy something i would expect to get a discount on something because i'm going to be doing a little work to grow the thing right i don't want to pay you to work right so the idea is like okay let's think through this million dollars two and a half x is the is the median and let's say 90% of them have seller carry okay well if you're selling half the business then now we're at 1.25 and let's say and you have a seller carry so you

you might only get a few hundred thousand dollars for half the business now again the part of it is that people then in that situation and this is where deals don't happen is that they're like i'm worth at least 10 it's like you're not like you're not because you can't walk away like you could walk away from business and it still grows like gym launch continues to grow and Alex is on a podcast with Chris right now right the idea is that you have to build an asset that can grow on its own and that takes time and the thing is is that people really impatient or they feel like they're getting um i mean and to be fair that's the nature of deals is that both people have to agree right um but like that's that's a big one is that a lot

of founders will have realistic expectations about how valuable the company that built is because they're measuring it based on the effort they put in rather than the output of what's been created. Right. Yeah, it's so interesting how many people are self-deceived on the actual total enterprise value. I had a guy give me an offer the other day for he's got an Instagram profile with a ton of followers and he's and he's netting like 350 a year and everything like that. and he wanted something like five or six multiples on a social media platform or like a social media account that is dependent on him as the face and it's just like dude what in what world is this worth five to six multiples you're crazy like you get out of here man and uh it's it's so it's so amazing like how how self-deceive people are dude i want to i want to dive into to one other thing that

you kind of mentioned and I know that you're phenomenal at is like walk me through how you get to know right how do you how do you tell yourself no right and get away from like the shiny objects and how do you keep digging in the same hole that is boring or whatnot like what are the mental exercises for you as an entrepreneur that keep you discipline to continue to say no and only say to the yes to the one thing that is giving you the most value it's a really good question um and i think that this is probably like if there's a single trade of entrepreneurs that can make them successful it is if they can master this and it's also probably the hardest one to master because we're the we're the we're the best people at deceiving ourselves

when it comes to this like we convince ourselves that this new opportunity is going to be worth more um and there's a lot of natural you know follow questions like well when do you know when to pivot like when you know you've tried enough like when you need to change your idea things like that I would say that post product market fit, all right? So this is a big caveat. And this is why advice gets hard because it depends on the season. If you don't have product market fit, meaning people don't want to buy your thing, right? Or they don't like the thing you're selling.

Then, yeah, you should iterate. You should keep trying new things until eventually you start getting buyers. At that point, you lock it. And then you say, if I only did this thing for the next 10 years, would I get this outcome? And if that outcome is a yes, then anything that's not that, like you already have to deal with yourself. that you're willing to get that big outcome. So like for acquisition, I mean, imagine the amount of opportunities that we get right now that are like, dude, could you like, dude, if you built this thing

and my, like, people were like, dude, you should sell a course. And you know what? If I did, I probably would make more than all course creators. So like I did that. But with that to track from the one thing that mattered most, right? And I think most times the focus is that people can't say no to the fast money. and by doing that they say no to the big money which is the long money which is the money you got to wait for right because like no big things love that are built fast like I'm very convinced

about this like almost everybody goes to this like five to seven years of eating period where you just don't it doesn't feel like you're making progress and as as as tacky as this may sound like your overarching strategy is hope like unshakable faith that it was that it's going to happen but being paranoid about the present that it's going to die right right so And I think Jim Collins, he has some sort of justice position that he said more elegantly than me. But it's maintaining both those things. And so for me, my ultimate vision is that, like, Acquisition.com compounds into a billion

or higher company. And we do it, doing it our way. Right. And, like, that's what I want to do. And whether it takes five years, 10 years, 20 years, like, it's a game that I'm dedicated to playing. And anything, like, I know the plan that we set out for because we spent 18 months thinking of all the different things we can do, what do we want to do?

We said, we want to combine social media and investing. That was the big, that was like something old and something new. And we figured if we create proprietary deal flow and do significant value add to businesses, that they, like, we could, we could, we could buy at good rates and we could add value to them too. Because typically investing is one or the other. Either you buy really cheap, like you buy, like that's Warren Buffett's strategy is buy really cheap. Right now he says wonderful companies at fair prices, whatever. Or you've got somebody who's like a really niche, like if you bought solar stuff, right, you

can't because you're having you're not compete but you know like if you if you didn't have your not compete like you going into a solar business it's like well you have expertise there and you'll immediately be able to grow right and so you don't even need to buy at a great multiple because you know if you 10x it doesn't really matter what you bought it out because you're going to be worth way more right and so for us we try to combine both those things you create an investment thesis and the problem with and like you're you're in this season now right is that switching from business to investing is a massive change in mindset because when you're you're in business, you're used to selling all that, right? It's selling and promoting and selling

and selling and selling. But when you're doing deals, it's actually about trying to get to know, which is so counter everything that we've, like you and I have had ingrained in our minds. It's like, God, I want this person to say yes. But the thing is, is that like, if you keep upping the price and changing the terms, then you can get someone to say yes, but it might be a terrible deal for you. And so like it no longer is about yes. It's about, you know, coming to agreements within a defined box that you define for yourself that like this is a deal that makes sense for me. And so that's been probably one of the hardest transitions for me going from business owner to investor. But an investment vehicles also doesn't give you the quick hits that

business does. Like you and I could rattle the sales team and then boom, we'd see sales hours later, you know, coming in the same day. I can't rattle the deal team and then like get a deal close, right? Like it just doesn't work now. Right. And so there's this huge lag on and we start doing stuff and we start seeing the results. And so you think about even improving a process, it's like it might take 90 days or six months to get through from beginning to end on a deal. And then we don't even know how the deal went.

It's going to take us another year or two before we really even see like, okay, this was a good deal. This was a good company. This was a good pick. So your feedback loops are so long. You have to figure out games to play in the meantime so that you can let the big machine work.

And so like right now we have a snowball. but I mean, I'm in investor years we're like I did my first deal in 2020 in summer 2020 so I'm three years in so like like investor years three years is like nothing it's nothing it's child's play and so I had to really change my perspective of like business versus investing and that's been that's been a very hard thing to do but it's changed me a lot and I think hopefully for it better. I love the I love the distinction between you know running a business or being in sales or whatnot versus versus investing because you're exactly right it's drastically different I love I love the phrase in regards to what you're talking about aggressively patient right like just being aggressive in the moment but very patient on any results any lag any anything that's going and I think that that drastically applies to both sides of owning a business and also in the investment world, right? Like, I'm doing, I'm doing everything to increase deal flow and increase opportunities on one side. And the other, I'm, I'm creating as many transactions, but not caring about the results and just getting, and it may be boring and maybe long and maybe, you know, suffering on

day to day. And the interesting thing is like, you don't have to be an entrepreneur to apply these principles right like you can be in sales you can be in a career path you can be in any one of these things where where you just got to fall in love with the boring work not get easily distracted not looking for another opportunity where you know wherever they pop up and because it's it's the compound effect as as as you talked about earlier as far as like increasing your audience size same thing as far as skill set right like every every month every year that I'm on I'm, you know, hammering down on this one skill set, and it's just compounding.

And then all of a sudden, the results come fast and quick at the end. Yeah, the amount of growth that your company had in the last year is probably more than it did in the first five years. Right. And so, like, that's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a tough year ship. I mean, like, this is me just to share.

I know you're in the process of this too, but like. When you go from comparing your year 7 to your eight growth of a business that you owned to a year, two to year three growth of a newer thing that you're doing, it's like we can't compare the two. Like this is, I'm just telling this is what's been hard for me that I've had to like wrap my head around is that like, I'm like God. Like it's so, it'd be so easy for me to add another like 10 million in EBITA, you know, to the solar business, right? Versus like or in gym watch like add another like six or out another 10, whatever it is, right? like adding that kind of like that can happen pretty quickly right whereas uh you know when you're the new thing like you have to think in percentages rather than in in absolute amounts because otherwise you'll just get way too bog down like you'll get way too sad about

things are working as fast as you want them to and so that's that's been helped to so shifting from absolutes to percentages to relative changes um and uh and also just at least for me thinking that like different businesses have different pain at different times. times. And so, like, I'll give you a quick extreme example. It's like on one extreme, you've got like info businesses, right? There's lots of people who have those. The pain that you experience is when you want to get past a million a month, two million a month, three million a month. So you basically pick a vehicle that's easy to start, easy to make money fast for, but you're not going to make massive money, right? It's very hard to do it. Not so you can't,

it's very, very hard. On the flip side, you start a software company. And like if you do it the right way, you're probably not going to make any money at all for a long period time. And so all your pain is front-loaded. But once you achieve critical mass, then the things just start compounding on its own month over month over month and at no incremental cost to you. And the thing becomes a profit monster. Right.

And so it's like those are completely opposite sides of the spectrum. And it's really just like, where do you want your pain? And if you know ahead of time, this is where the pain's going to happen, not being surprised when the pain comes. Right. You know, that is one of my favorite principles that I believe applies to every area of life. Your fitness, your relationships, everything is choosing pain now versus later, right? If I choose pain now, I experience real, long lasting fruit later.

If I choose pain later, I get fake fruit, short bursts, quick, you know, quick hitters, right? Like, I hit the alarm clock in the morning, right? Hit the snooze button. I get a quick hitter in the morning, right? Like, I get, I feel, I feel good sleeping a little bit longer or whatever it is. But I miss my, I miss my fitness routine or whatever it is, you know, which the long pain is way, way more enduring, way, way worse. And so this, this principle applies to literally everything.

I want to, I want to get your, your take on one thing. So I asked, I asked Grant Cardone. It's, it's really, really similar to, to this. kind of perspective that that you're talking about is like so the the question i asked grant and this and i'll give you what he he answered and i don't want to hear your your thoughts on it was a young young guy he's wanted to launch his wanting to launch his first business and he's thinking about taking taking the leap away from corporate america going to do it what do what do you advise like what advice do you have for that guy grant said he said don't do it he said don't don't

go and launch a business. He said, go and find somebody that has put in the years of essentially compounding and is pumping the brakes, go and figure out how to partner up with them and leverage that compound that's already been created and participate in the upside. And I think it's a lot of like what you're what you're talking about as far as like year seven through eight is way easier to make way more money than zero to one, one to two, whatever it may be. And so with that, like, what are your thoughts? What are your thoughts on that question and on that advice? So this is a really great question.

And I think that I will have a slightly different taking brand. And it's not because I disagree with this advice, but because I think it depends on the context that it's given. And so I think that for me to start over, or for you to quote, start over, I have a lot of experience in business. And so for me, it makes sense to go, partner with those companies and you know let them have incurred that first cost so that i can walk with them to the much bigger upside right it's just that if you have no business experience

one it's tough to get that business owner to say yeah you're going to be a huge value add to my business and number two you also probably like and if that person doesn't say that and you want to go the finance route of like i can route my some friends and family and get a bank loan and then try buy this business because I took a force on acquisitions or whatever um you still don't know what you're doing and you don't know how analyze what is a good business because you don't have a baseline and so a lot of these things are and again i i agree with the advice from like what is the best opportunity vehicle i mean like private equity is literally based on this like you get into private equity you start a fund and you can go like a billion dollars in five years right like sure all you

you got to do is raise a billion dollars go buy five companies for 200 you know what i mean let them double naturally over time and there you go you made yourself a billion dollars like sounds easy to do significant yeah right what do we do in here right uh but why why do we suck so but it's a lot easier said than done right and so like grant at his station in life um excited conversation I'll give you I'll give you a micro example of this and so I was thinking about what I was going to do with our big hunk of money right and I want to give you two very different perspectives on the advice all right so I talked to Dave Ramsey and I talked to I talked to I started sorry, I didn't talk to David.

I watched the video of Dave Graham when you talked about this, and I had a conversation with the great about this. So Grant said, go buy a massive building. He said, go buy the biggest building you can possibly buy. That's what you should do. And I think the caveat there is that's what branched. Because Grant's been doing real estate for 30 years. And so for him, him putting all his eggs in one basket, he's like, yeah, can't lose.

He's like, yeah, you just pick it and get a manager in there, it's done, right? Dave had slightly different perspective. Dave said, if your experiences and your skills were a pie, right? So think about a pie, 100%. He said, how would your experiences break down between like investment assets? So you got like stocks and bonds. You've got like, you know, the skills you had, you've got business, you've got crypto, whatever it is. Right.

Like where, how does that pie circle out for you, right? And when I look at my pie, it's 100% business. It's all business, right? And so when I heard that advice, and I talked to a lot of people when I was in the, like, really the season that I think you're, you're, you just entered right now, which is like the post, uh, transaction season, right? I talked to every single guy I know who was worth over $100 million. Every single guy. I probably had, I don't know. I want to say minimum 40 conversations with guys who were worth 100, 100 to multiple billions, right? And was like, what should I do. And what tough part was is that all of them gave me different advice. And so what they, what many of them gave me is they gave me what they would, right? And that's, and that's, to be fair, that's fine. They're like, this is what I would do. This is what I did, right? But the thing is, like, you're not them.

And so for me, I'm good at business. That's where all my experience is. That's where I can recognize risk. I can recognize value. I can see where I can add value. Like, I can see all that stuff. If you put an apartment building that's worth $20 million in front of me, and you put a business that's worth $20 million in front of me,

dude, like, I got to the end of like four different real estate transactions that were in the neighborhood of like $15 to $30 million, right? And I would get right to the end. You don't know what I'd do all the deal with? I had the Excel sheets, the projections, all this stuff, right? And right before I needed write the check for like $3 million or $5 million, I was like, I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. And I didn't want to buy a tiny house. Who gives? Right, right? Why am I going to buy $100,000 a house? It's a waste of time. Whereas me pulling up to a business that's worth 20, me writing a check there for $5 million, I can do it an instant.

I don't even need the complex projection. Like, I know what I get the business. Like, I know what's, I know where the risks are. I know the termites, the toilet, the tenants, whatever it is, for that business. And so I absolutely agree that the best opportunity is leveraging would already exist and then going more, right? That's the entire private agreement industry. The hard part is how do you have, how do you develop the skill set to get to that point? And so I think that's the nuance that I would add to, which is like once you have five years or 10 years,

and this is why, in my opinion, most businesses on a long enough time horizon become, investment firms like they become on some level of it they have to reallocate capital now the first and obvious place that you reallocate capital is within the business you look at how can we bolster out new new product offerings or new business lines or whatever it is right and then the second kind of layer of investing is that you look at strategic acquisitions you see if you can buy other companies that are that are accretive or value add to your own business right if you can vertically integrate i mean your business is like an obvious perfect example it's like okay well if i can buy the financing company yeah and I can buy the manufacturer of the solar pieces and not just to have the sales team,

I'm going to have a way more valuable business. Like that's an accretive acquisition, right? The third level is just saying, is there another place that I can allocate capital that will get me a higher return than my current thing, right? And so all businesses, once they are successful enough, become investment firms. They have to make decisions based on returns on capital. And so I figured if that's where I, if that's where all businesses eventually lead, then that's what I'm going to focus on at scale.

And so that's my two sense is like you've got to learn the bit. You got to learn a game. And then once you learn the game, then you can recognize where the arbitrage opportunities are so that you can unlock all the upside. And I'm sure that the many people who gave specific advice would probably agree with me on that if given an extra two minutes to ask the question. Dude, I love it. So, you know, the interesting thing is like exactly to your point, right, in order to get to a point where you can go and leverage a big business. You have to have the experience. You have to have the skill set.

And there's really two different routes that you can go to get there, right? You can go the employment route. You can go as an employee. And I think if you're going to be as an employee, you're going to want to be an entrepreneur. And typically that's in a sales aspect, right? Like go and learn the product, learn how to sell, learn how to elevate it, try to participate in some long-term incentive plan or whatever it is. But you're building a skill, right, getting up to a point where. then later you can leverage and where somebody could look at you and say, hey, this guy can

add value. I'd be willing to sharing some upside to help me scale up. Or you can go the entrepreneurial route, go and fail, figure out things, whatever it may be. And so it's really, I love, I love your advice that like, yes, Grant, that's perfect advice after you have positioned yourself to be able to do so. and so that that's that's absolutely yeah just just phenomenal stuff well uh last last piece last piece of advice that i want and then we'll let you go um so somebody is is just going through a tough time whether it's in a relationship business like really really struggling wondering you know can i keep going like is this even worth it what advice you give me to that person whenever i have the thoughts like why do i even bother like why should i keep going i just remind

myself that this is the point where most people quit and that's why they don't do it love that love that so just keep going man i i i i dude i Alex dude thanks for your time i love everything you stand for as far as just like being a player in the game falling in love with with the, the boring work. Heck, I even love your desserts. I can't participate the same way that you do with desserts. I eat a piece of bread. I gain five pounds.

Wish I had the natural ability to even participate. But, dude, appreciate you. Love you. Thank you so much for your time. Until next time.