Next Level Pros - #71: How to launch and scale a successful franchise: Jeff Fenster, Founder of Everbowl

Episode Date: January 29, 2024

Dive into the entrepreneurial journey of Jeff Fenster, the inspiring founder behind Everbowl. In this episode, Jeff shares his transition from law school to entrepreneurship, his experiences with successful company exits, and the power of building valuable relationships. His stories are a treasure trove of insights for anyone dreaming of entrepreneurial success. Highlights: "I just follow my success formula and core values over and over again.""Education is important... but you don't need to go to college to get an education." Timestamps: 00:00 - Jeff's Success Formula07:16 - College vs. Entrepreneurship09:13 - Business Lessons from Law School14:10 - First Company Sale Challenges19:17 - The Power of Perspective22:34 - Building Autonomous Teams24:54 - Entrepreneurial Strengths27:10 - Retirement and Passion31:32 - Effective Hiring Strategies34:11 - Scaling and Exiting Businesses

I learned a lot about how private equity works, professional money works, how M&A works, how to grow and scale a company to an exit, what they look for, what is the due diligence process, how does the audit process go for. So now when I build companies, I build with an exit in mind. I don't start like I did there and have on back of the napkin shit that's going to take months to fix and they're going to discredit and discount when it's time to exit. I build the company knowing what a buyer is thinking because I've been through it. I just follow my success formula, my core values over and over and over again. They work. Yo, yo, yo, yo. Welcome to another episode of the Founder Podcast. Today, I am joined in this beautiful studio by Mr. Jeff Fenster. Jeff is a serial entrepreneur, founder of Everbull, which I am slurping on right now, getting a little sugar in, natural sugar, of course. Fruit sugar. He doesn't owe anyone a thousand bucks.

No, I ain't sending nobody a thousand bucks for this thing. But Jeff is the founder of Everbull. He has had three exits, super entrepreneur. He's a speaker, an author. He's heavily networked. Super excited to be here with you today, Mr. Jeff. Well, thanks for having me, man. I'm excited and glad you were able to come down. We got to hang out. Next time I'm going to have to come up and visit you because your neck of the woods looks beautiful. Oh, man, it's a good time up in eastern Washington. I bet, man. Well, thank you. Excited to be here. Yeah, man. So Jeff, for those that don't know you, give us the 62nd background. So family man, father of two. Two daughters, girl, dad. Awesome. Awesome. Tell us about being a dad. That's something that we don't talk too much about on the show.

What have been some pivotal experiences? What do you love about being a dad? I mean, I love every aspect of it of course it's kind of like being an entrepreneur you get to build a product but it's a child and you're hoping that when they become an adult they're going to be kind of the human you're hoping they're going to be and see what they're going to turn into and like anything once it goes out into the world and having an 18 year old now she's in college she's an adult and i get that's crazy how old are you 40 40 years old now. She's in college. She's an adult. Dude, that's crazy. How old are you? 40. 40 years old. You got a daughter in college. Been with the same woman. That's pretty rare in today's day and age. I like to chalk myself up as being one of those, one of the pretty rare,

family guy that's young. I'm turning 40 next month. Happy birthday. Yeah, excited. Joining the club. Yeah. Joining the club. The best if used by date is going to be behind you. That's right. That's right. It's crazy to think, I don't know if you thought about this, but like average age of a male in the U.S., 78. So I am like right at the halfway mark. Yeah. And what are some things that you've accomplished in your life that you're most proud of? Well, definitely my children. And just to attribute, I'm not an entrepreneur if not for my children. I went to law school, was a sports agent, and my last year of law school was when my daughter came into my life

and ultimately changed the whole trajectory of my entire world because I went from graduating law school, quitting my job as a sports agent, to getting a sales job, and then going down the path which led me to entrepreneurship. So who knows where I am today but for having a kid young. So you went to law to get into sports agency? Yeah. I had a job set up with Lee Steinberg Sports Agency and show me the money. I mean, dude, that sounds awesome. Why didn't you pursue that? That sounds like it could have been really cool. Because of my daughter. Because back then in 2006, 2007, 2008, we didn't have Zoom. We didn't have smartphones.

You didn't have the ability to utilize technology to go and be somewhere. I had to leave my family, travel. You're my client, and you say, I have a potential deal here in New York City. Be here tomorrow at 4 a.m. I'm there at 4 a.m. It doesn't matter if it's my daughter's birthday. It doesn't matter about anything. It just wasn't the life I ultimately wanted.

And so I quit because of the dad side. I wanted to be a present real-time dad. And when you look at the sports agency world, there's a lot of divorce. There's a lot of broken relationships with children. There's just that, how do you tell your client, I can't be there because of my family? Your client doesn't care.

Right. Right? So what's most important? And so I decided not to pursue it after six figures of law school loans, and that was the path. Dude, that's crazy. That's like going to med school and not becoming a doctor. Yes.

Very, very rare. I mean, I have a law degree, so I always could. Yeah. So do you use that at all? Like, do you send, like, do you keep it active? It's forever. I mean, it's a degree. Right.

Did you ever pass the bar or anything? Nope. Man, I think I would have probably passed the bar just so I could send, like, random demand letters to people. You still can't, though, in business, which is funny. In business law, you can't represent yourself like you can in criminal and civil. So you as an individual can represent yourself. But as Everbull, WeBuild, any of my companies, I can't represent myself legally. They do not allow it.

I still have to pay an outside counsel. That's crazy. Yeah. And I wouldn't want to. I mean, it was never what I really wanted to do was actually practice law. I went to law school because Drew Rosenhaus, I read his book, A Shark Never Sleeps, when I was in college and how he broke into the sports agency world and he did it through law school. And I was like, okay, he has a law degree. Steinberg has a law degree.

David Meltzer has a law degree. I'm like, I'm going to get a law degree. I'm assuming though that like the knowledge you gained through getting a law degree has definitely been applicable in running business. I mean, for sure. And it's helped me not only understand contracts when I read them, but it also sets the table with all my, you know, I've raised damn near $100 million from my companies or others, and it sets the foundation with potential investors. It sets the foundation like, hey, okay, he's got a college degree.

This guy's not an idiot. He's got a law degree. He's intelligent. He's educated. He's figured this out. He can stick to things. And then my company. So I think it definitely raised my bar.

It raised my education level. I understand things I wouldn't have understood before. I understand the process, the legal process. And you can't own a business in America that's successful without getting sued at some point. So I'm aware of that whole process. I wouldn't trade it for anything. And I don't think you need to. I mean, that's, you know, as an individual who never could see himself doing anything over and over again for 40 years, like the idea of a career just was one of the hardest things for me to wrap my brain around. Being a serial entrepreneur is how I leaned into that and jumped from industry to industry to industry because I liked that learning curve. And law was just part of that process for me. You know, I majored in regional development, which is a real estate degree. I got my Ph.D., if you will, in law, or my master's, whatever you want to call it. My

juris doctorate is actually what it's called. And then got my MBA through the School of Hard Knocks early in business, and wins and losses later, and I continue to learn. But to answer your original question, what am I most proud of outside of my kids is I think I'm most proud of the fact that I can say with a lot of clarity that for the most part, I'm maximizing my potential every day. I'm hoping to increase that tomorrow and get better every day, but I'm not somebody who looks back with a lot of regret saying, hey, you know, what if I would have tried harder? What if I would have put in more effort and energy? What if I, what if I could, if I, like, I don't have any of those. Yeah. So I think that outside of my family, like that's probably what I'm most proud of. Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. So you said something

in there with, uh, regards to education. So what do you think of college dropouts like me? Well, I think college is important for a lot of people, but I think you don't need it for anything. And dropping out, I mean, look at Bill Gates, look at Mark Zuckerberg. I mean, you show me a successful college graduate and I'll show you a successful non-college graduate or a dropout. I mean, it's all about what your purpose of college is. If, you know, knowing you've had multiple nine-figure exits, you didn't need college to do what you did. I look at college as a phenomenal opportunity for someone who, A, is not going to be an entrepreneur,

or if you are going to be an entrepreneur, for building relationship capital, because I can tell you the relationships I have forged, both with athletes and all of that, to big titans in industry, to even people in big lawyers at big law firms that get me introductions to people. Those relationships I curated during college and law school, some of them are my closest friends today. We do business together. We do million dollar

transactions together. So people who are looking to build a Rolodex and a network, college is phenomenal. To get you visibility to and exposure to different ideas and different cultures and different way people think. I think today we live in a very polarizing world and it's dangerous and it's not good, especially if you're interested in making money of saying, I only want to be around people who think like I do. To me, that's ridiculous. And so I think going to college where you have a group of humans that have come from all over with different ideologies, different perspectives, some that you'll agree with, some that you won't, and learning how to coexist with them and understand their perspective. I mean, you talk about what is the number one thing I

learned in law school and what law school teaches you is actually how to look at something from someone else's perspective. And from a sales side, there's nothing better because in law school, you don't get to choose what side of the equation you're on. So you'll get a set of facts. Johnny smacks Billy in the face with a baseball bat. Represent Billy. And then, or it'll be represent whatever the other name I just said. Johnny. Johnny. And you don't get to say, well, I don't agree with that side. You have to come up with the best argument using what in law school is called IRAC, issue rule, you go through this whole

structural thing. You go through it all, and you have to learn how to step into either side of the coin and represent it to the best of your ability. And when you can do that in the real world where I can say, you know what, I disagree with you, but let me see what he's seeing. Let me put myself in his shoes. How is he

viewing these set of facts? How is he viewing the situation? And if I'm him, how am I going to make the best argument? Well, I can manipulate that now because I can be you in my brain, right? And I think that that is what we've lost over the last few years. And so I think education is important. I think if you're not educated and you don't need to go to college to get an education, you can learn on your own. College is just a formal way to do that.

And for most people, entrepreneurship is not the right path. Even though they might think they want to and they see the glorification of entrepreneurship, I don't want my kids to be entrepreneurs because I don't think they're meant for it. They don't have the personality that is required to do it successfully. Couldn't agree more. It's interesting you bring up the importance of understanding different perspectives, right? Like that is like one of the core things that any teenager or young person has to understand. In fact, I was going through this with my daughter. She's 17, and she was complaining about how, you know, these people were – these other kids were arguing with her perspective, and they weren't respecting her perspective.

And I'm like, well, were you respecting theirs? And it's funny because so often the young mind just wants to be like, there's only one way of looking at things. And so really getting that basic understanding of how to view things from so many different perspectives that helps you in sales and business and in life and management and really any type of thing. And also to how you opened to staying in the relationship long-term. Right. I think that, as you said, it's rare to see these relationships on a personal level last. And a lot of it has to do with our inability to understand the other side's perspective. Because we might be awesome together today, but 20 years are going to go by.

We're both going to grow in different ways, professionally in business, personally in love relationships, friendship relationships. It doesn't make a difference. Customer and how they view your brand, humans change, information changes, times change. And so as people are growing in different ways, sometimes we grow further apart than where we started. And if you can't understand why that person or that individual or that entity sees things the way they do, it's not most likely going to work very well. And you're not going to be understanding. I play the long game. I don't do transactional sales.

I've never have. I've always done relationship-based selling. When I build a relationship, it's not for a minute, a week, a month, a year. It's forever. So I'm never going to do something that's going to jeopardize the longevity of a relationship unless I just don't want to have a relationship with that person because they're a criminal, they're a crook, they don't stand for something that I want to be associated with. But otherwise, I need to understand it. So what would you say are some of your best practices for the long game with your wife? What are some things that you've done to maintain that relationship over 20 years?

Oh, we're getting into marriage counseling. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You know, there's a quote my dad used to always tell me when I was a kid. Would you rather be right or would you rather win? And I always remember that. I always would rather win. I don't care if I'm right.

I mean, I do. Everyone does. I know I'm right. We always want to be right. But you know what? With my wife, it's easier if I play to win. We're on the same team. So I kind of, I'm a big sports analogy guy. And I have some very good friends that I played sports with and maybe they missed the game winning shot. Right. And so we lose. Did I stop being friends with them over it? No. And so I kind of use that mindset as much with my wife and my kids. And I look at it more on like a game by game basis.

Like, okay, today we lost and we lost maybe because my wife made a decision that wasn't the right one or I disagreed with, but I went with her anyway. And I'm not going to stay mad forever because what is that going to do? And I'm not going to hold a grudge and resentment. So, you know, I have a very short-term memory when it comes to the mistakes we make so long as the intentions were aligned. And if I believe my wife and me are both fighting for the same ultimate goal, what's best for our children, what's best for our family unit long-term, we may disagree how to get there. Sometimes she'll be wrong. Sometimes I'll be wrong.

And I just try my best to get back into the perspective of, okay, I disagreed with it. I told her. I still went with her way. It didn't work. I could be right or I could win. I want to win, so I'm like, honey, it didn't work out. We're going to start over again tomorrow.

Let's try. I love it. That's a great best practice. So outside of family, obviously you've got a really cool family going on, daughter, I mean, successful in that aspect, which I think is one of the most important things to be successful in. Business, you've experienced three different exits. What was the hardest in experiencing those exits as far as building or selling or any of those different things? It'd be my first one because I didn't want to sell the company.

And I raised some private equity capital. So I worked at ADP for six months, was the number one sales rep in the country, left over $17,000 base pay discrepancy fight argument. How much money were you making back then? Six figures. Nice. Yeah, I was the number one sales rep, made six figures,

bought a house, moved my fiance and daughter into it. And I came out of law school with six figures in law school loans, a kid and a fiance. So I had to pay bills, right? I had a $38,000 base pay plus commission. And if I had sold a certain amount, I was going to get a $54,000 bump to basically get to 54,000 in salary, which I wanted. And so I went to my boss in January. She said, yeah, you earned it, but you don't get it to the end of the fiscal year, which wasn't until June. So I get it July, the next fiscal year. And I said, no way. Threatened to quit if they wouldn't give it to me. I was 24. And long story short, that's what got me into entrepreneurship. Best thing that ever happened. Probably. Yeah. I mean, financially, yes. It was

the best thing. Otherwise, I'd probably still be at ADP making three, 400 grand a year. But that company, I started out of my mom's kitchen. I sold my house, moved my family into my parents' house and started my first company called iChecks, which became Canopy HR. It's a ballsy move. Yeah. It was ego. Yeah. You know, blind 24 year old ego. But I think this is an important thing because I hear a lot of, not excuses, that's not fair to the people who have them. There's a lot of reasons why people don't take action. And it's always like, well, I have a mortgage or I have a family. I had those things. My dad tried to tell me I was crazy, that I was

quitting a six-figure job with a house when I have about to be a wife and a daughter. And he said, you don't have the privilege to chase your crazy dreams. Like you have an obligation to take care of your family. And I looked at it differently and I said, Dad, I have a kid that's going to emulate the way I behave, not the words I say. So if I demonstrate a lifestyle of settling, not chasing what I believe is my dream, not going for it, then she's going to grow up and do the same thing.

And I think that's not what I wanted to be as a dad. So I said, I think I have an obligation to chase my dream. That she should see that, no, you sacrificed today for the better tomorrow, because that's what you're about. So how did your dad respond to that? So initially, obviously, he wasn't very supportive, but at what point did he switch from... I don't know if he still ever has. He's not wired. He was a doctor. He wasn't wired that way. My parents were not entrepreneurs. My mom was a teacher, dad was a doctor. So he let me move in. So, I mean, he supported in some level. Of course. Just the conversations were very... Right. Like, what are you doing?

Yeah. Like, hey, dude, you have a law degree. Go be a lawyer. Wait, you're not going to be a lawyer? Go be a sports agent. You're not going to do that? Now you're going to quit your six-figure job? Which I'm like, he's like, what is wrong with you? You know? Yeah. My son is insane. Yeah. My son is insane. He couldn't understand, going back to perspective, right? In his world, that just wasn't the way. And so that was probably the hardest because we were really successful, me and my partner, and we raised private equity capital from two PE firms, Innovate Partners and Claritas Capital. And we scaled.

We grew. We opened an office in Orange County, became nationwide, changed the name to Canopy HR, built an HRIS platform with the birth of smartphones, which was an app-driven digital version of human resource. So employee self-service portals, like all the things you know today, they didn't exist back then. Everything was in paper. And I say I got my MBA through the School of Hard Knocks because I didn't understand business. I had a law degree and I never meant to be in business, right? I was just here. I was being very good at solution-based selling, selling a service, figuring out problems. And every time we made a dollar, we spent a dollar 20.

And it was systematically done by my PE firm that I trusted. Hey, we need to hire a CTO. We need to open another office. We need to invest in this. We need to hire this person. We're going to run out of cash. Don't worry. We've got plenty of cash. The company's growing. We'll put the money in. There'll be a small dilution, of course, because you don't have your side, right? No, I don't. I'm a broke 25-year-old.

So they kept taking more of the company, taking more of the company. What originally started as a 70-30 in my favor, and my partner ended at an 80-20 in their favor, and then it was time to sell the company in their eyes. The number was a good size, but I had only 10% of, well, half of 20, so 10% of my own company. And it was a nice number exit, which if you see the total number, you're like, that's a hell of an exit.

I didn't want to sell it yet because we still had a lot of legs left. B, I didn't have a plan to do anything. And it wasn't enough money where I could go in my mind, you know, F off into the world and be done. And at the time I was like, well, that's the only business I'm ever going to do. Like, let's do this for 15 years. And so we sold it. So did they force you at that point? Yeah, they had control. They sold it. They called me in one day and said, we knew that there was a buyer. I said, no. My partner said, no. They said, okay, okay. And then one day they called us in and said, we decided we're

going to sell the company. It sucked. It was good and it sucked. I mean, listen, anytime you can put seven figures in your pocket, it doesn't suck. I mean, let's just be straight. I'm saying it sucks. Someone at home is like, yeah, okay. It sucks in the moment, right? Also one of the best things that ever happened to me. And a lot of times, going back to the perspective, which I think is the critical element for success in life, you don't really know in the moment if something's good or bad. You may think it's good and find out later it's bad, or you may think it's bad and find out later it's good. It was the best thing that ever happened because that was not an industry that I wanted to spend more time in.

It gave me the ammunition and the tools to go build the rest of my career. And sure, I made seven figures. I've made millions of dollars since what I learned, my relationships. So what are some principles that you extracted from that experience or would you have done it any differently? So those are two different questions. But would you – yeah, so let's start with would you have done it any differently given what you know now?

Yeah, I would have set up the company much like I set up Everbull and WeBuild and Unevolved Products and all the companies I'm running today, my digital marketing agency. Everything since then, if you invest capital into my business, I have controls in place to protect from that ever happening again. Right. Even if you lose total, you still have all the controls. Correct. Correct. I put controls in place where until I don't want to be in control of my company, I'm not going to lose control. And if you don't want to invest under that arrangement, don't. Yeah, no problem. No problem. Number two, I learned a lot about how private equity works, professional money works, how M&A works, how to grow and scale a company to an exit,

what they look for, what is the due diligence process, how does the audit process go for. So now when I build companies, I build with an exit in mind. I don't start like I did there and have on back of the napkin shit that's going to take months to fix and they're going to discredit and discount when it's time to exit. I build the company knowing what a buyer is thinking because I've been through it. So that was really helpful. Yeah, it is a unique experience to go through that. Most entrepreneurs never actually get to experience an exit. And so when you go through that, you're like, man, if I would have done it this way. And so then your second or third or fourth opportunity is so much better. I was on

a podcast the other day and we were talking about like knowing what I know today, 18 months ago, I would have been able to get 300 million more for my business. Right. But it's like in the moment when you're going through it the first time, you're just like, you don't know. And, you know, it's times like that. I wish I would have reached out to a mentor or somebody that had been through it or whatnot, but you know, it's this ego side that like, oh, I got this figured out or the number's already good, so I don't need to go and ask for help. And it's interesting going through that. No, it's true. And I also think there's a level of credibility that comes with the exit because most businesses fail, right? Most entrepreneurs will never sell their business, not because

they're not good at what they're doing. It's just most businesses aren't sellable. And it's a mindset. It's a perspective. And so Iable. Right. And it's a mindset. It's a perspective. And so I don't build companies to stay in them forever. I build them to sell. Yeah. That's what I do. And that's why I've been able to sell multiple companies.

Today we have six companies, and my plan is to sell all six. Nice. What are some core aspects that you put in place in order to be able to sell? Well, it's all about the team, right? A lot of times entrepreneurs get stuck where they are the main driver of the business. And so what can you sell? Because without you, I don't want your business.

So you're going to sell the company and get a job? I don't want that either. So it's building about, it's creating the structure in the system and removing yourself piece by piece to where the company runs without you by bringing in better people and getting it to where it needs to. Like I'm really good if you and me come up with an idea today and getting us to eight figures in revenue and be in a position

to exit. But in that process, I'm going to replace myself out of each of the jobs with someone who's more capable and better. So when someone buys it, they actually don't want me. I haven't done my job if you want me. I mean, you don't not want me. I haven't done my job if you want me. I mean, you don't not want me because I'm not like a drain on the business, but I'm not the piece that makes it good. The driver. Yeah. So that's number one.

Number two, it's about understanding scale. A lot of people fail to understand how to scale a business, and they get greedy. They're too focused on equity and, oh, my God, like what's mine, and being right. I want to be the dumbest guy in the room. And I'd rather own 1% of Tesla than 100% of Everbull. So if Elon Musk wants to trade, he can have Everbull give me 1% of Tesla. Easy. Right? But founders, business leaders, they have this scarcity mindset too early in the days. It's like, I can't bring that person in. They want too much equity. I get asked to join companies all the days. It's like, I can't bring that person in. They want too much equity.

I get asked to join companies all the time as either an advisor, a consultant, an investor. It's like shark tank. For 3% of your business, I'm just not interested. Right. Because what am I going to do? Yay, we sell for $100 million, and I helped you do it, and I made $3 million after taxes in California

and left with $1.5 million. I'm better doing something else. Right? Where it's like same company, you could bring someone in and say, well, if you give me 20% and we with one five, I'm better doing something else. Right. Where it's like same company, you could bring someone in and say, well, if you give me 20% and we amount to zero, who gives a shit? But if we get to a hundred million, that's some meat on the bone. Like you're incentivizing the people who are part of this thing to go. And so they can't raise money because they're not willing to give enough. They're too dogmatic in their views, which I'm not.

And I just follow my success formula with my core values over and over and over again. They work. It's not rocket science. It's actually not as hard as everyone makes it out to be. It's just most people aren't – it's like I couldn't be a doctor. I get squeamish with blood. Now, could I go to medical school and you could teach me to do the operation? Yes, but I'm squeamish with blood.

I'm not a teacher. I don't have the patience to teach children and be in an environment where two plus two is four and they don't understand it. And I'm like, I'm just not the guy to be a teacher, right? There's lots of fields where I'm just not meant to do it. And I think the world right now is filled with too many entrepreneurs that aren't meant to be an entrepreneur. And it's just the truth. You could join a startup. You could be in an entrepreneurial environment.

You could be the number 2, 3, 10, 20, 105 at any of these companies, make millions of dollars. I mean, look at Steve Ballmer. Yeah. He almost has as much money as Bill Gates. He wasn't there when they started the company. He didn't found anything. Nothing.

Yeah, right. Nothing. Right. Yeah, it's what I refer to as an intrapreneur, right? Yes. Like most entrepreneurs should be intrapreneurs, right. Nothing. Right. Yeah, it's what I refer to as an intrapreneur, right? Like most entrepreneurs should be intrapreneurs, right? And it was actually the point of my career when I went back and became an intrapreneur, when worked for somebody else.

I owned businesses, wasn't scaling really well, went and worked for somebody else for four and a half years where I actually learned to be able to go back and be a real entrepreneur. Yeah, and most people don't understand what an entrepreneur is. It's a problem solver. Right. Bottom line. Right.

Can you solve the totality of problems that are going to come at you every single day, all day? Right. Because I can assure you, if you get any level of success, your competitors are going to mirror and emulate and copy the things that are working. They're going to attack your vulnerabilities and your weaknesses. You're going to have employees steal. You're going to have employees run off and take your ideas and try to duplicate it. You're going to have suppliers screw

you, vendors screw you, banks screw you. I mean, it's nonstop challenges and problems. Every single day. And if you don't enjoy that, don't be an entrepreneur. Right. If you actually enjoy the chaos, which I do, I love the chaos. I'm bored otherwise. I didn't think, I didn't know that about myself, but now I understand it. And that's why most operators who are better at whatever don't make it. It's like nine out of 10 restaurants fail because they're started by chefs. It's not because they're not

great at what they do. They're phenomenal. They're way better at it than me, but business is different. It's cutthroat. High-level technicians. Yes. High-level technicians, exactly. And I think if you're not good in sales, it's very hard to be an entrepreneur unless you are a tech company. That's one of the few industries where if you can't sell, you can still kill it. You better be a coder. You better have that technical expertise. But sales is the backbone, and I think that that's the other challenge, is you have a lot of very talented individuals that are not comfortable selling.

They don't understand the power of relationship capital. They don't have the network. And then they struggle. And they're like, why am I losing to these companies that are inferior with product? My product is so good. Yes. Why doesn't it sell itself? Right.

Because nobody knows about it. That's awesome. Do you ever see yourself retiring? Define retirement. The traditional way. No. I mean, I semi-retired twice, and both times I couldn't do it. And what did that look like for you? What was semi-retirement? Wake up, work out, sit around, stare at the wall.

How long did you do it for? Seven months was the longest, and I just was going, I drove my wife and kids crazy. That's actually why I started Evergold. My wife said, listen, get out of this house and go do something. You're too high-strung. Right. You're driving us all crazy because I'm a high-strung guy. I'm a type A personality, which is why I like the chaos.

All right. What are we doing? And she's like, we're doing nothing. Your kid has school today, and then I have to go do grocery shopping. My wife has taken care of the family at the home. And back then, especially in 2016, my 12-year-old was only 5 and 6. There were things that had to get done. My 18-year-old was 12.

And you were interrupting her day-to-day. Well, yeah. She's like, Jeff, we can't just – I was like, hey, let's just jet off to Cabo. She's like, the kids have school. Right? Or, hey, let's go do this. She's like, I can't do that, honey. We have parent-teacher conference on. Like all the things that

I was just like, hurry up and wait. And I just don't. I didn't find enough purpose in it. And I was just like, well, what's retirement anyway? And then you start to understand like, I don't need the money so I get to do things just for passion. And I get to do them just for passion and i get

to do them based on how i want to do them and that's fine so i started airbow as a passion project love it you know and then it turned into we built and it turned into unevolved products and unevolved concepts and you're sitting in unevolved studios and um you know now we get to do all these fun things with all these really cool people and the speaking and the books and i get to touch and impact others and then i got to find out that my favorite thing I get to do is actually connect with other people and help them and be part of that story and not, you know, I see myself as coming away from being the founder of companies and eventually like what I'm doing more of now where I come in and help entrepreneurs that I think have the entrepreneurial spirit to do

it and a good idea. And if I can leverage and help them with my network and my capital and my resources, awesome. And I can see myself being like on a board, more boards and more involved in letting others do more of the heavy lifting, but I won't do anything. I won't slow down until my youngest turns 18 and goes to college. Love it. For you, what does a perfect normal day look like? There is no normal. I mean, just a perfect, if you were to live the same day, like what is your most consistent day look like?

Groundhog Day, that's hell. But I wake up early. I work out every single day, no days off. So I'm in a competition with a buddy. What time do you wake up? It used to always be between 4.30 and 5. Right. Because I travel now every single week, I'm always in a different time zone.

I've, like, blown that out of the water. So it's now, I would say, between 3.45 and 4.30 because I just wake up and I can't do anything about it. And so it's like my eyes are open. Now, if I'm on the East Coast, it might be 6.30 or whatever East Coast time. I don't wake up at 3.30 when I'm in New York or Atlanta. But here, because of being there so much, it's made it earlier here. Work out. Tackle the day.

See what are the challenges today. Spend time with my family. Who's like the most important employee that you have? One person. One, if you had to choose one. I can't. You got to choose one. It's like saying choose one of your children. I mean, do you have an incredible executive assistant? I have an incredible executive assistant. I have an incredible president, incredible COO. I mean, my video, I mean, every single one of them are incredible. So you can't ask that. I can't answer. It's like choose a child.

It's not going to happen. Yeah, yeah. What do you think is the most important hire when you're first launching a business? Whatever your skill is, you have to hire what you're not good at. And this is where a lot of leaders fail because they hire people they like. And you traditionally like someone who sees things the way you do. So if I'm an outgoing, high-strung, type-A, salesy individual, me and you are going to get along.

I'm going to enjoy the conversation. I'm like, oh, man, he's so cool. I want to hire him. But the right hire might actually be the introvert, numbers-driven, not extrovert, very conservative, doesn't want to try things because that is the yin to my yang. That's going to make my wheel perfect, right? You got to hire your inefficiencies and your weaknesses. It's hard to do when you're early on because you don't necessarily see eye to eye with that person. You're like, wait, they don't see, they don't get it. No, they do. You don't get it. So hiring your weaknesses is important. Love that. Yeah. There's a philosophy that we build off of the DISC assessment. Are you

familiar with that? Yeah. So we- What are you? What's that? High D, high I. Okay. What about you? I haven't actually done it. What? I know the assessment. I've seen it. Oh my goodness. I've never actually put myself through it. You've never done it? No. It takes like 15, 20 minutes. I'll give you- The real one? Yeah. Oh, okay.

That's it. It's easy. I have an assessment. I'll give it to you. Yeah. Send it? No. It takes like 15, 20 minutes. I'll give you- The real one? Yeah. Oh, okay. That's it. It's easy. I have an assessment. Yeah, send it to me. Yeah, yeah. So we actually give one to our community because I'm like such a big believer in it. Like we, anytime we hire any employee, we make them take it before we even interview them.

Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, because it's fantastic. Tony Robbins actually says he would never hire any salesperson unless they have some D personality in them, the dominant side. And so it's interesting. There's a lot of great perspectives, but the disc is like exactly what you're talking about as far as like hiring your opposite, right? Like I got to surround myself with S's and C's, steady and conscientious, you know, because I'm like forgetting about things, not taking care of the details. I'm not going to be the person that's

sitting there, you know, just doing the same thing over and over again, right? Yeah. So, I mean, very similar to you. Dude, awesome. So Everbull, what's the plan with Everbull? Well, we have just under 100 stores open around the country, about just under 400 sold, and the plan is to keep growing.

I mean, my goal is to get to 1,000 stores. IPO, private equity exit, what are you looking? No IPO. Yeah, never want to be a public CEO? Not a chance. Not me. Maybe whoever buys it from us wants to, but not me.

Nope, nope, nope, nope. It's a different business. It's a different, I'm not the right guy for that. Right. I thought at one point in my career that I did want to be a public CEO just to experience it,

not because I wanted to be, but just to like go through and be like, check, right? Did that, been there, done that. So. I don't know, at this point in my life, I have figured through and be like, check, did that, been there, done that. I don't know. At this point in my life, I have figured out to be successful, I need to stay in my lane, what my role is.

I'm very good as a startup entrepreneur from zero, like I said, to mid-eight figures. But when you start getting into the nine figures, ten figures, businesses, IPOs, you're not running the company the same way. Right. I'm not the guy for that. You don't like the suits. Nope. Yeah.

Nope. Yeah. We were talking about this. Yeah. Once you get into lawyers and all kinds of HR and everything else, man, it really becomes painful. So my last business, we were doing 230 million plus a year and it was becoming very corporate and I hated it. I hated the corporate aspect of it. So I totally understand where you're coming from. So you're, you're hoping for sell off to private

equity. I mean, you said you built to sell, or are you going to ride this cash cow for a long time? What do you think? Well, I mean, I mean, the beauty is there's no, I don't need the money, so we're building something really cool as a team. When the right buyer comes, we'll sell. We've had a few nibbles. We've turned them down. The goal is Everbull in every community. I mean, this is more of a,

this will be sold eventually. You know, I have investors and shareholders, and the plan is to sell the company, but it's profitable. We're growing. We're disrupting the industry, so it's kind of like when the right opportunity presents itself, we'll sell. But the side businesses through it, WeBuild is turning into even bigger business. We build all

the Everbulls, but now we build all Shaquille O'Neal's Big Chickens, Capriotti's, Wing Zone, Stretch Zone. And now we're working with some of the biggest brands on the planet, names that everyone knows where what we offer is so disruptive and unique. So any restaurant or retail concept that's trying to scale or an existing highly scaled restaurant or retail concept that needs to do renovations, we can do it in a way that no one else has been able to do it. It's phenomenal. Yeah. I mean, that company should do nine figures next year in revenue. And that's been a fun project.

So I'm more focused currently of my time there how long that one been around started everbull so 2017 so you did that vertical integration yeah so my first restaurant cost me too much so i started my own construction company just to build everbulls and we only built everbulls until 2021 and then when shack was going to open an ever everbulls with us but ultimately couldn't he had had his own concept called Big Chicken. And so then he said, hey, can you help me with Big Chicken? And so we were like, yeah, we actually can. So we started to build Big Chickens. And then from there, they introduced us to Capriotis and Wingzone. And then Drew Brees was like, well, wait a second, if you're building his stuff, I have all this stuff. And then from there, somebody else came by and then word of mouth. So then we ended up raising some capital from

some very big strategic investors for WeBuild Global, which is a newer venture. And Everbull is still the majority shareholder of WeBuild Global. And WeBuild Global builds all these other concepts and brands. And so that's kind of been a fun new startup-ish. I wouldn't call it a startup, but it's kind of like a startup. And getting to kind of do all that fun stuff. I have an incredible president that runs the day-to-day of Everbull and driving us into the 2024 and beyond. And, you know, we're doing some fun things.

What is something that drives you? What's a goal that's like so far out there that you're striving for right now that somebody not your average Joe would know about? Like a personal goal? Yeah, just something you want to accomplish before the end of your life. What is something I want to accomplish before the end of my life? Business-wise? It could be anything.

I mean, like for me, I have some crazy ones, right? Like I want to go and win a Nobel Peace Prize. Oh. I don't know why I do, but I'm pushed and I want to get there. I want to live to be 200. Okay. That's a personal goal. I love that.

I'm a big longevity guy. Okay. And I think that there's an opportunity. Like you mentioned, the average age is 80 or 78 in America, and my goal is to be 200. 200. At least. Nice.

So I'm doing a lot of things on the longevity front. Give us some examples. What are some things that you do? Obviously working out and everything else. Every single day, minimum 20 minutes cardio at a 70% max heart rate. Cumulative, not average. So I need a minimum of 20 total minutes at that heart rate or better. Hell or high water, I don't care what the cost is.

I exercise and get it done. I take metformin, which is a drug that has proven in most mammals that they've done studies on that it increases lifespan. It's interesting. Yeah, it's a type 2 diabetic. It is. I don't have diabetes, but what they found is that in all the different 14 mammals or 18 mammal species that they have been able to conduct the test. So they haven't finished human trials. And some people are saying it's not working in humans, but humans live too long to know. So I'm doing it.

I follow Dr. David Sinclair, who's a longevity expert at Harvard. So I do a lot with Tally Health, and they have a lot of like spermidine and resveratrol and bromelain and a bunch of these other nutritional elements. But it's really about eat right, move your body, right? Live an unevolved lifestyle, which is the foundation principles of Everable and try to be the, and allow technology. AI is crazy and what's going on with that. And technology is showing that we're going to cure and prevent a lot of illnesses over the next 30, 40, 50 years. So staying alive right now is critical because you can then take advantage of all the strides and improvements and advancements that are happening in the medicinal world.

So I'm on that side. Love it. Dude, you've got an exciting life that you're living, Mr. Fenster. I mean, we're trying to have some fun. Jevity, got some great businesses, great family. What would you say is your biggest weakness? I have a lot of them. How much time we got?

Just the biggest one. My biggest weakness is I am very – I don't accept mediocrity in anything, which makes me not always the best. Very much a type A, high D, high I type personality. So I'm not very comfortable when human nature in my kids, my friends, my wife, my coworkers, people, sometimes you just are okay with like, it's just a game. I don't know what that means. It's just a game.

Or it's just a test. Or it's just a meal. Or it's just a bad day it's just a test or it's just a meal or it's just a bad day. Like I don't get it. Like for me, I pride myself on trying to do my absolute best at everything I do. Now, it doesn't mean I always do it, but I try. Trying is where the power is. The result is irrelevant.

I care more about the effort. I know if I give my best and I put that effort in at everything I do every single day, the total product's going to be good. There'll be down days. There'll be days I fail and mess up and whatever. I have a struggle when people are not giving their best effort and I know it. That's one of my biggest weaknesses. I can relate. It sounds like a very similar entrepreneurial characteristic. I think so. That's awesome. So where is the best place that guys can follow you on Instagram? What's the best spot there? Yeah, Instagram at Fenster Jeff.

You can go to jefffenster.com. Obviously, Everbull, WeBuild, LinkedIn. Hit me up. Connect at jefffenster.com. What are some things that you're striving for right now that if there's people in the community that are listening that they can help you with? Like what maybe a certain aspect of your marketing or anything like that?

Listen, like I said, I'd rather win. So if you can see anything we're doing and you think there's a better way, please let me know. If I got mustard on my shirt, tell me. I love it. Or if you have better ideas and you're disruptive in your thinking, I love to work with great humans, connect with as many amazing people as I can. You know, I have a book on building relationships. It's called Relationship Bank Account, bestseller. So if you're that person and you see some views, I'd love to get to know you. Reach out, let's connect, and let's do some fun things. Love it. Last but not least, what is one book recommendation that you would give to anybody? Well, besides Tim Grover. If you haven't read Relentless from Tim Grover, I mean, yeah,

you know, he's a good friend and incredible author. For high achievers, that's just one of those books that I think everyone needs to read. But, you know, it depends what you're into. There's so many good books. That's my all-time favorite book, so I'll leave everyone with that one. Love it. Love it. Well, Jeff, I know your time is valuable. Appreciate you spending time with us. Until next time!