NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - 2014 re-draft & Daniel Jeremiah

Episode Date: April 23, 2015

A room with some heroes -- Gregg Rosenthal, Chris Wesseling and Marc Sessler -- discuss the latest NFL news (3:00) including Greg Hardy's suspension and Russell Wilson's love for baseball. The guys then conduct a redraft of the 2014 NFL Draft before discussing this year's event with former NFL scout Daniel Jeremiah.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast would be a good fit for Chip Kelly's offense. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. I'm Greg Rosenthal alongside a couple of heroes, Mark Sessler, and Chris Wessling. Hey, Greg. Yeah, see. I get no respect. What a pause between that.

Yes, of course, if you'll notice our people, fearless host, Dan Hanzas, not here today. Happy birthday to Dan Hanzas. He gave himself a big birthday present, and that was staying away from us. Who can blame him? Listen, I'll tell you what, it's been hot in this studio.

Came up here about 10 minutes ago while T.D. was fiddling around to the controls behind the glass, and the heat between Rosenthal and Wes is uncomfortable. Well, hold on here. You're distancing yourself from this. Yes, I am. Well, it really started as Mark and Wes arguing

about a Josh McCown versus Zach Mettenberger, who would you rather have? And then it really kick-started a week-long argument that really has threatened to tear apart the around-the-N-FEL group about Zach Mettenberger between Chris Wesleyan and myself, which we're really going to dive into a little more later in this show. You're excited. Yeah, I'm sure listeners are just hanging on waiting for the extra Zach Mettenberger analysis.

Well, it's late April. Well, it shows, you know, this heat, the scientist, or any arguments between us is, you know, not really just manufactured. We're talking about it whether we're on the podcast or not. I guarantee right now, Dan is when he's listening to this. He's like, not enough birthday talk about Dan. We've got to talk more about that aspect. Big three five for Dan.

Oh, really? That's a big one, I guess. I don't know. At this point, does it really matter? He can officially run for U.S. President. Well, we will call Dan Hanses a little bit later. See if he's there. He doesn't know we're going to do this.

So he might not answer. We'll see what happens. You might get your Dan Hanzas. Yeah, we got a big show. I mean, we got that. We are going to talk about a little series we're doing redrafting and ranking the class of 2014 draft at different positions. Okay, you know, if you get all the draft Nicks out there, they're studying in all the college tape. What about the guys that are actually in the league?

Let's revisit them a year later. Get our, you know, studying on. West did a huge, great piece on the wide. receivers. One of the best classes of all time, maybe the best. I am putting out one on the quarterbacks, and Mark has the tight end. So we'll talk about that a little later. Mine's the click bit. Tight ends. Hey, Jason Marrow is a person too. And we also have Daniel Jeremiah on the show with the NFL draft only a week away. We're going to talk to DJ. Dan was here. We pre-tape that on Wednesday. And we're going to talk a little draft, get some knowledge from Daniel

he has another pod he does something else here right yeah there's another podcast he does move the stakes podcast check it out if you enter the draft talk i stayed out of that segment and i'm not on it because dj you know he on twitter got to me he said little uncomfortable to have to go up with the tape watching that you've been doing on some of the defensive tackle prospects in line i said i'll sit out this would be your thing well you have to listen there was some awkward moments between him and dan hans that i don't tell a very bubbly DJ on this episode. Yeah, he was excited to be here other than, you know, they've had the heat between Dan.

And, you know, there's heat between Wes and I, but of course there's a lot of love. I felt bad, really, for you last night when you almost lost your 4,000-word opus to the vagaries of your computer. You said you were literally going to cry in the newsroom by yourself at 8 o'clock at night until an IT guy saved you. I was five minutes away from rolling into the fetal position and sucking my thumb and just calling it quits on life. I mean, it was just...

What did it just disappear into a... He thought he lost the whole thing. I hit a button called Save Draft and 4,000 words up and disappeared. That is a horror movie for a writer, basically. I mean, it was hopeless. Especially if you look at this thing. A week and a half of film watching, research, note-taking,

and then crafting the words I went the way I want them all out the window. How are you here right now? Like, I would still be mad. No, I tell you. Right back. Recaptured it after like a couple of hours. Like, they were like, oh, you just have to email WordPress and figure it out because we can't figure anything out. TD, it's called different levels of work ethic.

That's why he's here. I mean, yeah, he wasn't messing around. He went and watched his San Antonio Spurs. Wes is a. My beloved San Antonio's. A sneaky big Spurs fan and then, you know, finish the column after that. So we'll get to all that later. Good game last night.

It was until the Spurs started with that hack crap. Yeah. How about this? a little basketball talk. Mark and I are clueless. I'm trying to follow. I'm following. We all like the NBA. Greg's into it. I like it. I'm following it. All right, let's do a little news. I told him to keep his shirt on.

That is Barry Obama, if you missed it. At the White House. I love Barack Obama. I'm going to miss. I'm going to miss it. Talk about Grunkoff. I'm going to miss it. You know, you can, I don't care what politics you have or whatever. You've got to like the zingers that Obama always comes up with So you don't really like him as much as his comedy writers? Well, I did say he's got a great comedy writers.

I mean, his best line today was that, you know, he was, he usually makes a lot of jokes, but, you know, he was worried today with the Patriots in town that 11 of 12 could fall flat. I mean, you know, that's pretty good. The newsroom generally found that to be a funny joke. You know, he took on Belichick. So he's saying his delivery is good. He's good at delivery, absolutely. I give him a high rank.

Whatever. I mean, he follows sports, who cares? It was fun. We're not really going to talk about the White House, though. We'll talk about some real news. And it dropped yesterday that Greg Hardy, now of the Dallas Cowboys, 10-game suspension for violating the league's conduct policy

and really various offenses, the new personal conduct policy that includes domestic violence, a bigger suspension than a lot of people expected. Do you think the Cowboys would have still made this signing if they knew he was going to be? suspended 10 games. That's a good question because his salary makes a lot more sense now that he's been suspended 10 games. Because it was billed as 13 million over 16 games. So now it seems more in line with the fact that he's going to miss most of the season. I mean the contract now looks like you said

real smart. And I normally would say at this point, you know what? There's still a ton of football to go with six games left and I think this can work out. And it can, except you are talking about a guy that at this point would not have played for what 25 straight regular season games we did play that one week one game which was so weird last year that's where i came to 25 15 plus 10 oh that's right i don't know what i was thinking there you go scientist what not a mathematician you need an abacus it is i think that the contract i guess was smart because it was per game but they still as ian rapidport our NFL media insider reported you know they were thinking it's going to be anywhere from two to four to six.

So this is a big surprise to them. And they don't have, you know, pass rushers on that team. I also wasn't surprised in a certain, you know, vantage point because this is the post-ray Rice world. It's a different world in the NFL. And Greg Hardy is kind of the foremost example of that. So for them to come down very hard on him isn't totally shocking. Well, there's two sides to every story.

But if what he is alleged to have done is true, I have no problem with this. Oh, of course. Yeah, I think most don't. And like the league, one thing is no matter what they do, you take a hard stance like this, they're going to get attacked on Twitter for whatever this was, and they get attacked if they take two weakest stance. And I think that they've, for all the attacking the NFL gets and all the heat,

I think they kind of stuck to their guns here with this one. No bad pun intended there. The only problem with Greg Hardy getting 10 games is that it wouldn't surprise me if it gets reduced. Because he missed last year, and he was paid, it was not a suspension. But the NFL, they know it more than anyone else. They're in a bad streak right now with these appeals. They've gotten some things overturned. Ray Rice was an issue.

Adrian Peterson's happened in court. So this isn't really the end of this story. Let's move on to the field where the Miami Dolphins continued their offseason spending by going after Greg Jennings, signing the wide receiver, ultimately to replace Brian Hartline, I guess, kind of for that spot in the lineup. Slide up, great. I think Greg Jennings has spent most of the last two years in the slot, but that's Jarvis Landry's position in Miami,

so I'm guessing he's playing the Z or the X there. But yeah, I think he's an upgrade on Hartline. How much money did he get? Was it $8 for $8? Two years, $8 million, which probably means the only year guaranteed is the first year, and it's probably three and a half or four. Similar money to your boy, Heartline. Yeah, I mean, I don't think that Heartline's going to change events

in Cleveland, I don't think Greg Jennings is going to completely change Miami's, but for late April and what was left, not a bad signing for the Dolphins. They needed a veteran help. They got all young guys. Yeah, Kenny Stills, Jarvis Landry, Richard Matthews, now Greg Jennings. I don't think this precludes them from drafting a early round wide receiver by any stretch. He'll play for them, though.

You know, when I watched the Teddy Bridgewater tape lately, he didn't look like he was done by any means. No, I think he had some plays after the catch. He just looked like he was missing a little bit, and he had a hard time getting on the same page with Teddy Bridgewater, really more than the other receivers there. Yeah, he was outplayed by Charles Johnson, but I agree.

I think Greg Jenney still has a little bit left in the tank. Marvin Lewis has got another year left in the tank, and the bank account, too, another one-year extension. He hasn't won a playoff game his entire run in Cincinnati, but he gets another contract extension. This is through 2016. Connor Orr wrote a good piece on the five untouchable, coaches in the NFL right now that haven't necessarily had recent playoff success, but it just

seems like they're almost untouchable. They're going to keep their jobs if they just keep their current level, and Marvin Lewis is one of those guys. If you were a Bengals fan, Mark Sessler, would you be happy about this move? Well, if I were still a Bengals fan at this point, I would be very frustrated with Marvin Lewis. I'd be very frustrated with his decisions at quarterback, and basically it boils back down to Wes's boy, Mike Brown, who why is Marvin Lewis untouchable? Because apparently the Brown family does not feel they need to upgrade this

situation. I mean, I don't know what you're going to get, what you get with Marvin Lewis. Well, this is a situation where unless you are from Cincinnati and are very familiar with how this franchise runs, they're a mom and pop operation. They don't run their franchise like the other 31 teams. And they have the most secretive front office formula of any franchise in the league. And what's happened is Mike Brown has ceded control to a conglomerate of Marvin Lewis. Sounds evil. Duke Tobin and Katie Blackburn Brown and several other members of the Brown family.

So Marvin Lewis has a lot of job security by being part of the personnel now. Like he's in the personnel department. And his coaches also have a big say in who they draft. So I think that's a big part of it. And if you, I mean, for perspective on why Marvin Lewis has been so successful, 196 and 2 is his record. And since Mike Brown took over for Paul Brown in 1991, all other Bengals coaches, I believe, are 55 and 146,

which is a 240 winning percentage. So Marvin Lewis has succeeded in an operation where every other coach has failed tremendously. From another angle, he could argue, we've been to the playoffs four straight years. Whether or not you like Andy Dalton or you like Marvin Lewis, we're there. We've got a talented roster.

It's not an absolute training. wreck, but it's just not, there's nothing inspiring happening in Cincinnati. Well, the other guys on Conner's list, Jeff Fisher, when was the last time he made the playoffs? What's the last time he didn't go seven and nine? Tom, this year, last year, at six and ten, even worse. Tom Coughlin's on that list. He's made the playoffs once in the last six years. Yeah, he's won two Super Bowls.

I know, I know, but I'm just saying he's under 500 over the last four years overall. He's made the playoffs once in six years. Brad Childeris has made the playoffs as often as Tom Coughlin in the last six years. Wade Phillips has made the playoffs as often. Todd Haley has made the playoffs as often. I'm trying to think of some other coaches. I don't know. Did Eric Studsville make the playoffs for the Denver Broncos?

Probably not. But, you know, at least Marvin Lewis, to get to the playoffs with the Bengals is an accomplishment. I think Marvin Lewis would be hired if he lost that Bengals job by another team quickly. I don't think he'd be hired as a head coach. Really? I think he'd be hired as a defensive coordinator. I think he may be hired as a head coach depending on what gaps were out there.

You know, when John Fox got hired coming off a disastrous season. But I don't think, I don't think Marvin Lewis is quite as respected as John Fox. I disagree. I think the way, I think he'd get a lot of points for winning in Cincinnati. And look at the coaches he's hired. You know, Hugh Jackson, he has good contacts. Jay Gruden gets hired elsewhere. Mike Zimmer gets hired elsewhere.

I mean, that's a big part of your job as an executive. They've done very well drafting. I think he probably gets some of the credit for that. They're winning with Andy Dalton, which is tough. Now we're starting to like the re-signing. This is looking good, and I don't mind it. I agree. I think that one of his most valuable traits is that he brings in great assistance,

so you worry about how great a coach he is or whether it's the assistance doing the work. But he does deserve credit for some of the personnel moves for how good the roster's been lately. I just don't know that his actual coaching and game management, to me, it's among the worst in the NFL. In big spots. Yes.

He's terrible at challenges. He's terrible at making decisions during the game. I agree with that. And he doesn't have his team ready to play. in big games. One of the guys that's usually ready to play in big games, but his last play was discouraging. Definitely not a good decision.

Russell Wilson has been talked in the news a lot because of his contract. He was on NFL Network this week, and he's really pushing this baseball story, and we'll be quick on this, but it's really interesting. He talked with Dan Helley on Total Access, and he keeps insisting that his interest in baseball is not a ploy, and that if anyone could pull off baseball and football at the same time, being a quarterback, it would be him.

What is this? He needs a reality check. Let's compare him to another two-sport wannabe athlete. Russell Wilson at 21 and 22 years old, straight out of college, has been playing baseball the whole time. No layoff. It's 229 with a walk-strikeout ratio of 51 to 118. Terrible numbers. In A ball, which is supposed to be easy.

Michael Jordan, 15 years from playing baseball, hits 202 with the same exact walk strikeout ratio in double A ball, which is a lot harder, and he hadn't played in 15 years, Russell Wilson needs a wake-up call. I think if you're at his age, your early 20s, and you're hailed around the NFL as having completely cut against the grain of the prototypical NFL quarterback, largely because of who you are, how hard you work, how respected you are, you've been to two-stretched. straight Super Bowls, you've created hundreds and thousands of jobs in Seattle, you probably believe you can do anything.

He really sounds like it. You can see that to be a great athlete, you have to have a certain bit of... Irrational confidence? Exactly. I don't know if it's being naive. It's just wild belief. It's like TD's belief in his own basketball game or in his producing skills. It's just wild overconfidence.

How does I get into this? Well, it's founded on the producing front. It's excellent. It's Russell Wilson. I felt like you need to be involved. What is up with all this baseball? It's a little ridiculous. It is kind of strange.

Baseball is the hardest sport to play. You just can't wake up and be like, oh, just because I played it in college for a little while. There's a reason you have to master each level of the minors before you get to the majors. I love it whenever they ask the Rangers general manager about it because all of his quotes, if you translate them down to their essence, are like, are you effing kidding me? It's just like, oh, Russell's really competitive. We like him a lot. We think he's got a good thing going in football.

Like, are you kidding me? Why would he quit me? Well, maybe they're getting a cut of his new contract. I think it's all brinksmanship is what this is. All right, that is the news for today on this beautiful Hans' 305th birthday, which gets me thinking, why don't we call him? Let's not save that part of the show. Let's just see.

Okay. Let's see what the old Zeusers up to on his birthday. All right. TD, let's get him on the horn. I reached Dan. Sorry, I can't get to the phone right now, but leave a message, and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Yeah, he will. At the tone, please record your message. When you've finished recording, you may hang up, or press one for more options. Hey, Dan, Mark Sessler, here. Your cohort here at NFL Media, just wanted to wish you, happy birthday.

Also on a side note, couldn't get you on the phone here for the podcast. Could you just call me back and give me your true thoughts on A, Chris Wesleyan, how do you feel that he is as a colleague, and B, as a boss? Greg Rosenthal, rate him A through F. What kind of birthday message is that? I don't know. Happy birthday, Dan. I thought we were going to sing or something. All right, we'll see you.

Oh, that's it. I guess that didn't work out. Well, I want to get information. I was expecting you to go off on some made-up story or tangent of that there was a fire at NFL media and he had to come save it. I want information from him on the most honest day, the day he was born. I'm sure he'll call me back. Dan celebrating tonight.

Also, you know, your lovely wife, Simone, it's her birthday as well. It is a little eerie. They were born not only on the same month and day, but the same year within hours of each other. Hmm. Not in the same place. Could they be related? I don't know.

That's the thing. It's a mystery that has, you know, other limbs. We don't know. Have you ever thought that dating Simone is really the closest you could do to indirectly dating your friend Dan Hansis? No, I haven't, Craig. But now I am thinking. That is peculiar.

Thank you, Wes. That's how I'd frame it. All right. Let's move on to our talk about the 2014 crop. And Wes, I talked about it. You got your piece up right now on the best wide receivers from the class. And it's a fascinating piece. Everyone should check it out.

Take your time with it nice and long. Print it out maybe if you still are into paper and whatnot. And you make the case that you think there could be 10 number one receivers. in this one class. Well, I think there are that many guys with potential. Odell Beckham, Mike Evans, Kelvin Benjamin, already are. Sammy Watkins, I think he is. So there's four right off the bat.

John Brown, who's been compared to Marvin Harrison, blew me away when I watched his film. He might have been the guy that I was more impressed than I expected to be. You've got guys like these raw guys with number one receiver talent, but they still need to work on their route running and reading D.S.' defenses like Martavis Bryant, Cody Latimer, Dante Moncrief. You've got Jordan Matthews. So you think Dante Moncrief could be a potential number one receiver with Andrew Luck.

I do. And I believe. Making the leap game. They love him too. I believe you called him that at one point last year that when you watched him, you saw a number one receiver physically. He is really talented. I was surprised to hear you say that.

And Jordan Matthews, too. So you think he could be more than just the slot guy? Well, he played the slot more than any receiver in the NFL last year, percentage-wise. but it seems like from their off-season moves that they're going to move him outside this year and if he's in that number one role for the Eagles his production is going to go through the roof

just look what Deshawn Jackson and Jeremy Macklin have done so I think that's about 10 guys right there Brandon Cooks who knows what he's going to be has anyone I mean obviously the potential for this class is maybe the best wide receiver group ever because also the position is just so much more refined than it used to be as well anyone on this list disappointed you with where they were drafted and where they are?

You know what? There really wasn't a lot of disappointment. I would say that Marquise Lee, you need to watch all of his games because the first half of the season was just a massive failure. He dropped passes, didn't know his assignments, didn't make plays. And then right around week 13, he starts to show that explosive run after catch ability that he was built to have when he was seen as his sophomore year in college, the number one receiver in the country. So he's a guy that you kind of have to watch all of his film, and you can see his upside a little bit there.

Jarvis Landry, I think with him, I was really impressed during the season with his run-after-catch ability. But again, limited to the slot, he's never going to be anything but a slot receiver. And so many of his passes were manufactured by the play caller, not the quarterback. It was quick tosses within four or five yards of the line of scrimmage, a lot of in motion behind the quarterback, a lot of creativity there. And I don't know how much of that is his, his nice. ability, and how much is that just the play caller making him?

Well, it's hard. You call him a destitute man's Heinz Ward. Well, he does have that physicality to him, and he's on the slow side. I'm amazed you ranked him below Marquis Lee and Alan Robinson. I like Alan Robinson. Alan Robinson's a playmaker. I think he's a little on the slow side for a deep threat, but if you watch his kind of catch radius and his ability to high point, his body control, it's more impressive than

Sammy Watkins. Bordos has a chance in this offense to get a lot better in this second year with Robinson, Lee, and Alan Hurons who sneaked on the end of the list. Unfortunately, you compared him to Kevin Ogletree. It's not really like the most, you know, flattering comparison. Well, it was hard to come up with an Alan Hearns comparison. He's on the thin side. He's not physical.

He's not a great athlete. He doesn't jump well. How do you NFL receivers normally do all those things? And he also had, there was a fluky nature to his big plays where it was a lot of blown coverage and a lot of missed tackles, and I don't know if it's repeatable. It's crazy how deep this class is because at the end of your article, and people should read it right to the last line.

You even give nuggets about guys like Bruce Ellington, Taylor Gabriel, Paul Richardson, and even they have potential. I mean, Taylor Gabriel for Cleveland wasn't terrible last season. Gabriel was second on the Browns and receiving yards. And, you know, Josh Huff, who, there are some people in the Eagles organization think he has a higher upside than Jordan Matthews so you're right a lot of I mean we can go 25 deep in names well but it's hard it's hard to evaluate guys like Michael Campanaro who only you know played 100 snaps for the Raven now let's

talk about the guys closer to top I mean you had Odo Beckham all by himself the number one number one over I think it's it's silly to have anyone else as a number one overall pick in that draft if you if you were redrafting and your comparison for him I liked a lot this a souped-up Steve Smith slash Antonio Brown hybrid with flashes of Michael Jordan. Whoa. I mean, that's it. We've kind of been through your love of Oda Beckham. I found it interesting.

You rank Mike Evans over Sammy Watkins. You didn't put numbers next to you. I see what you do trying to put them in tears. And you put it in the tiers obviously of great players, future pro bowlers. But ultimately, you put Evans' name first, Watkins next, and Kelvin Benjamin third of that group. How do you decide? I mean, that's a cagey move. I'm a savvy veteran.

and I know that if I put numbers that that's all I'm going to hear about on Twitter is about the numbers and not the analysis. Hey, how about be a man and take a stand? Ultimately, you have the name on top there, Mike Evans. Why do you like him better than the other two? Well, Evans and Watkins were extremely close, and I went back and forth. I copied and pasted one over the other about 10 different times.

Mike Evans makes plays at the catch point. He makes contested catches, and Sammy Watkins really didn't. And Sammy Watson's a lot more explosive, but he didn't help out his quarterbacks, and his quarterbacks didn't help out him. Mike Evans definitely helped out his quarterbacks. Because he was playing with such a bum, Josh McCown. Josh McCown got the ball to Mike Evans.

Kyle Orton could not get the ball to Sammy Watkins. His ball placement was horrendous. It surprised me how bad Orton was. Watkins also was playing injured all year. He's hard to evaluate because of the poor quarterback play, and he played through groin, rib, and hip injuries. So he's really hard to evaluate. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he has a better.

career than Mike Evans. I mean, how much when you're watching one year of tape, I did the tight ends and I had to factor in the quarterback play as well. Because with some of these quarterbacks that like Sammy Watkins, you are dealing with a total issue there. And frankly, honestly, the same with Mike Evans. What Evans did with going back and forth between two quarterbacks last season, he was spectacular down the stretch. Well, I would say that another factor that's very important and why I had Watkins over Evans a couple of times before I changed it, Watkins was doing this against number one corners and double teams. That's big. Evans was doointed against mismatches and number two corners. When they play the Browns, Evans is getting bust their screen, not Joe Hayden.

And some of those Evans plays were a little fluky too. Sometimes it was bad. Andy got away with a lot of push-offs. But he's a more dynamic athlete than you think. Calvin Benjamin, I ranked below those two guys because one, way too many drops. I mean, he's one of those guys that he makes the hard plays look easy and the easy plays look hard. he's also one of those guys even when he's not open he's open four feet over his head and that's perfect for Cam Newton

because when he's wild he's wild high he's the perfect receiver for Cam Newton and again did it against number one corners did it against Richard Sherman that's the most impressive team and Lewis Desmond Trouffant Jimmy Smith they trailed him around the field I love Kelvin Benjamin

I don't know if I would rank him second on this list but just my personal which one I like I like Kelvin Benjamin, I think he has a chance to be better than those two guys. There's another factor. Kelvin Benjamin is almost three years older than Mike Evans. That is significant. He's such a weird, interesting receiver because he's a deep threat that's not really that fast, which is interesting.

And he's just a big guy. He picks up speed when he's tracking the ball, though, which is important for a big guy like that. He can be covered, and he's a natural receiver, though. I mean, he is a really natural receiver. I think more than Evans, you can. called Evans a stretch forward and cleats it i can see the upside for evans but there's something about benjamin the drops are a problem but it seemed like he maybe isn't all there mentally right now is that fair i don't he has a lot to pick up at the NFL level but that can

happen i mean think of a guy like t o when he was entering the league and stuff i could see that guy once he starts figuring things out that he could be there's another difference too the evans has an advantage i think a major advantage and run after catchability they both can high point They both can win contested catches. Benjamin is probably a little bit more physical just because he's got that wide body. But Evans can be a beast after the catch at times, and Benjamin really needs space to operate. It's crazy to think that the way this goes, they should all be better this season.

Now, injuries will play a part, but then I look at a guy like John Brown because of what happened with the quarterback chaos during that season. Number five on your list, by the way. Yeah, and that's one guy that we spent all last summer, where Steve Kheim and the Cardinals were just showering praise, and I thought, you know, we're going to get fried for these articles who are writing one after the other saying how he can't be touched in practice. But he paid off.

I thought in games right away, he was a difference maker. I was so impressed with him watching. And I wrote a lot of flowery articles, as did you. But I also wrote a lot of flowery articles about Brandon Cooks. And after watching both of their, all of their targets, I was way more impressed with John Brown than Brandon Cook. So you draft Brown. Where would you draft Brown, let's say,

in a random, just nebulous draft. I think early 20s. Okay, that's pretty good. That's pretty good for a guy you got in the mid-third. And I think the Cardinals would too if they had to do it again. He's a guy where the difference between him and Cooks was right away, and this is part of why Bruce Ariens is such a great coach, has him lining up all over the formation.

He's doing the usual, you know, the jitterbug routes where you give him slants and crossers and end-arounds and real quick swing passes. He's doing all that stuff, He's also running sideline routes, and he's burning guys deep. Sigmund Bloom had a great line. He goes and gets that deep ball like a frisbee-catching dog. You throw that deep ball, and he'll run and go get it. I mean, he'll just go under it, and he'll burn the guy and get it.

The Eagles didn't go to the playoffs because of that, ultimately. That was, like, one of the best plays of the season that he made against him. And he did that, what, three or four times in the first month of the season? You know, it's funny? So we talked to Larry Fitzgerald yesterday on the phone, and he, like, Oh, that's not a week. Well, no, I mean, our group did. I didn't get on a group phone.

TD wasn't there, you know. It's just you. You're the big. You're listening in. But we asked about John Brown. You're the journal. And he basically said to John Brown, the thing that was most impressive, was what you just said, how he picked up the offense and played all over the field.

And I was thinking, wait, that's the knock on Larry Fitzgerald last season, that he had trouble doing that himself out of the gate in that offense. Yeah, it's impressive that. And you heard Steve Kime, their GM, say that his knowledge of the route concepts coming from Tiny Pittsburgh State. just blew them out of the water in the first menning camp that he already knew exactly where to go. He's a really bright guy.

And interestingly enough, nicknamed Smokey. Well, I think people should probably Google it. Okay. All right, nothing. I wear it. It's not because he smokes defensive backs or illegal elements. I love the comparisons more than anything. Mike Evans was Harold Carmichael Light.

You know, DJ will probably just throw in the one-name comparison into some current player, you're going all over and you're describing it. Mike Evans is Pierre Garcin, or Sammy Watkins is Pierre Garcin turned superhero. Totally, you know, I know what you mean when you say that. You say Calvin Benjamin is the evolutionary Plaxico Burris. I want to like that one. I always put Plaxo Burris after Thanksgiving dinner, but I thought that was not kind enough to Kelvin Benjamin.

Jordan Matthews is mini Marcus Colston. Anyways, lots of great stuff. We'll skip the whole section of high upside projects with first round talent. I love Martavis Bryant. So you compared him to Chris Henry, which I thought was really interesting. Devante Adams has a lot of potential. Cody Latimer was a little higher than I expected to be on this list. Adams was a guy that was surprised how much I liked him.

He's not a guy who explodes off the film. He's not fast. He's a really good route runner. He's got a great double move. You could see the difference between him and a guy like Alan Robinson where they both are using double moves. Robinson doesn't get him open, but Adams does. and I think he's going to be

McCarthy's talking up their offense like it's going to be really dynamic and I think Adams is one of the reasons why he's going to be facing third cornerbacks I like him that's a tough offense to pick up as a rookie he slipped in under the radar finished the season had a couple he really had two big games in the season

that they wouldn't have won the game without Devante Adams for a rookie to just come in and do that is impressive in that system they're scary everyone should read the site let's move on to one of the other positions Let's go over to quarterback here, and my piece, which will be posting on Friday on the site, so it might not be quite up when you listen to this, ranks the quarterbacks of the 2014 class. And, you know, I start by saying ultimately the draft process did Teddy Bridgewater dirty.

Between the pro day and some private workouts and some whispers, he wasn't truly a leader. Skinny knees. Right. He somehow got knocked down to the end of the first round. What's a skinny knee? And I think they got the best. quarterback in this draft or at least the guy that I think's the safest and I know for sure is going to be there. And then after him, I think there's a group of four guys who all, I think they all

have a chance, but I don't really know. And I ranked him, Blake Bordell's number two, Zach Mettenberger all the way up to number three. I have him ahead of Derek Carr. And I threw Jimmy Garapolo in that group because even though we didn't see a lot out of him, I liked what I saw and I think he has a chance moving forward. Wes has taken me to task for this Mettenberger at three so why don't we start there well i think that it's fun for me that you're going to have raiders fans you know haranguing you oh yeah i won't have to deal with them because i would not have ranked mettenberger over derrick car i mean i think derrick car people are going wildly overboard about a mediocre rookie season but very mediocre yeah very mediocre you know the yards per

attempts on the touchdown the interception ratio and the fact that he just he wasn't david car so that was good and he wasn't jimarchus russell and that was even better and so i think Everyone just wanted to give him a lot of credit. But he was the guy I watched more games than anyone. I'm counting him up here. Sick. I think I watched 11 games of his because I kept wanting to see more. What am I missing with Derek Kark?

I didn't see anything special. I saw a lot more special out of Zach Mettenberger and Blake Bordos. I saw some tools there with Derek Karr. He's a fast guy. Well, I think that's why scouts like him because of the tools. But I didn't see it in the games. Yeah, I agree. I didn't see it in the games.

He doesn't go downfield. He can move in the pocket a little bit. When he does go down field, he was all over the place. I mean, guys were open and he missed them. And it's just dink and dunk. They did not look like a professional offense. They couldn't. Well, is that a little part of it, though, if you're the Raiders,

that what they had going on with your play caller last year? No running game. Your receivers are among the slowest in the NFL, so it's hard to go deep. I'm not one of these guys that wants to shower praise on Carl, although I think I like them more than you do. But part of it is just I want to see more patience in general. with some of these quarterbacks before we flame a guy that's 21 years old or something. I think they all, I think this group, and Garapol is kind of a weird guy to throw in there,

but I think they all have a chance to be long-term starter. So I'm not burying Derek Carr. I just didn't see it yet. I think there's been a lot worse rookie seasons than he's had JP Lossman and Claussen and Gabbard. There's some guys that- Alex Smith, Eli Manning. Right, that start, and you think they have no chance. And I wouldn't put Derek Carr in that category.

but you look at what he did versus what Bordle's showed, I could see the traits from Bordels. I mean, he looks like Cam Newton out there. He was more athletic than I thought. I mean, there was one play J.J. Watt comes in untouched. He shakes J.J. Watt and makes him look like a clown, runs for 30 yards in a, you know, in a two-minute drill. We can't forget what we saw in the preseason.

Mark fell in love with Bortles last preseason. Oh, yeah. And you were high on him, too. Oh, yeah. And I just, I can't get that image out of my mind how well he played before his mechanics just devolved during the season where he's throwing like a baseball pitcher so to me he's the hardest he is he's back foot's coming up and he's winding up on his throws he's losing velocity because of it i mean he talked about hard to grade yeah and he talked about wasn't a post that went up yesterday

that he that is what his arm just tired out at the end of the year he was that's one of the challenges as a rookie quarterback you go from playing a certain amount of games to an intense season long thing if you're played boarders that is not easy they put a lot on his plate more than any other rookie. I thought he had the most working against him. Everyone wants to see Derek Carr, he was stuck on the Raiders. That's true. He had the best protection of any of these quarterbacks by far. He had very good

protection, I would say, overall. The Raiders had an above average pass protection. The Jaguars were terrible. They were terrible. He had no chance on a lot of plays. It's 17-0 half the time before he does anything wrong. And I think Mettenberger had a very similar

situation with a bad offensive line and a bad defense. Bortles also had nothing but rookie-wide receivers and no tight-in. I mean, the receivers didn't even know where they were going, so he's got that problem. I mean, almost to a man, this group of quarterbacks played on talent, poor offenses with teams that already have coaching turnover at the office. What happens when you draft an early round quarter of.

Yeah, it's true. But Bortles, five or six plays a game, did something that 10 or 12 starters in the NFL can't do. You know, he would make someone miss. He could improvise pretty well. He can throw a big deep out. across the field. He was very aggressive. And the thing that impressed me, I thought he improved a lot in his decision making.

Even though the mechanics kind of fell apart, maybe the arm, you know, he seemed more like a veteran quarterback by the end. That's why he's number two. Derek Carr was terrible in December. If all you had watched was December, he was no different than Jimmy Cawson. Bordles, I thought, got a little bit better as the season went along. Bridgewater was sensational in December. Until that point, they were all pretty close. but he closed the season with a better five-game stretch than any rookie has.

70% completion percentage, and finished December as Pro Football Focus is number one quarterback. You make a good point, though, for that one? Over Aaron Rogers. See, that doesn't shock me. He looked like an above-average starter, and I like the fact he's not a flashy guy, but he's impressive to watch. Here's why this exercise makes sense, because if you want to go get all caught up and, oh, look ahead to next week's rookies, right at the top of the article, Greg points,

out that in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, eight of 17 personnel folks pulled by the newspaper had Johnny Mansell at the top of their list, and he's at the bottom of yours, and he should be. Yeah, and only two had Bridgewater. I believe only two

had Bordles. Yeah. And one actually had Mettenberger, which is kind of shocking too. So Johnny Mansell was the consensus guy. He was Mayak's guy. I don't think he was DJ's guy, to his credit. DJ had Bridgewater a number one. But he was all the big guys guy. And now, I mean, let's be honest, where would Johnny

Mansell be drafted if the draft was happening right now? If we knew what we knew right now? Yeah. If he was just starting over. Basically, what would a team give up for him in a trade? If he's coming out of school right now versus... No, if he's coming out of rehab and you know how he looked as a rookie. I mean, unless you want to look at the one very abstract instance of a team trading for Brett Farb after he came out of, he had all sorts of issues off the field, but that's a different player. I don't think he'd net anything. I would say sixth round draft pick. Yeah. Yeah, he could be part of another deal potentially.

Fifth or sixth round pick. Yeah. I mean, the game he had against Cincinnati was the worst game any of these rookies played, I thought. I was discouraged by that game because it just looked like he was too small. Yeah. Yes, he does not look the part on any level. I thought against the bills after he had the touchdown march and then he got flat on the next drive. You thought this guy is not ready for prime time? There were two plays. It actually was in the Carolina game, which to me was his welcome to the NFL moment.

Third and long, he's trying to get to the edge and Star Lil Tulele beats him there. And he doesn't get the first down. And then I don't know if you remember the play he got injured and that ended his season mark was a designed run where Luke Keeckley easily beat him to the edge, hit him, and he got hurt, and that was it.

It was like, you're not pulling off any of those cool Johnny football improv plays anymore. Yeah, I mean, one of the hardest things is to judge how an electric play You know, last year at this time, we all thought that's what he was going to be in college. What's that going to be at the NFL level? I look at Marriota. I'm just as concerned about the offense he came from and what that means if you stick

him into a pro-style offense. We don't know. Yeah, it's so hard to project. I think the difference, you know, Manzell seemed like he didn't know the playbook as well as he should if he didn't put it on the X-Bron. We know he didn't. Right. It's not exactly like a scientist going to work here.

So, yeah, Mariota, at least we think could. quickly on Mettenberger. Wes, you think he's a total statue. And my comparison for him is Carrie Collins. Yeah, late career Carrie Collins. Maybe a little younger Carrie Collins or early career bloods. I disagree. I think there was some pocket movement.

You know, there was potential. He did make those little slides to open up a few extra seconds, but he didn't throw anything out of the pocket. He is in 1990s, you know, Mark Wilson for the Raiders or whatever, 1980s guy on Tech Hekmo Bowl that just kind of drops back and just throws it as hard as he can. I mean, a lot of coaches, if you have that, they want that over, you can run around all over the place, but you can't operate from the pocket. Coaches told Greg Cocell, after Greg Cocell said he would draft Zach Mettenberger over

James Winston, he said he heard from many NFL guys in the coaching community who agreed with him. I thought Mettenberger showed a lot. I'm really surprised you don't like them at all, Wes, because a lot of the things that went against him, I didn't think was his fault. And like Bortals, he had a lot of flashy plays that were really impressive. Well, I mean, we've gone over this ground before. But it's all, not on the podcast we haven't. Sure we have. I've gotten messages from Titans fans tell me to quit picking on Zach Methamport. I mean, I don't like that he's got one of the highest failed drive

percentages in NFL history. He never won a game in six starts. They weren't really competitive. He didn't move the offense consistently, which bothers me more than it bothers some people. I can't stand watching quarterbacks three or four quarters without moving the offense he's injury prone finished the last two years

on the sidelines and he's a statue I believe he's a statue you believe he has some movement I think he's a late career Kerry Collins he can't escape pressure he's got a long wind up

that's going to get him in trouble I think and I think he's inaccurate so I don't see he's got a big one I don't think he's inaccurate at all I do he's aggressive

he can deliver while under pressure which is a skill in the NFL I don't think he's inaccurate. And I do think there was just something to him that, I know this is insane, but if there was a category for pretty passes that were dropped, Mettenberger would be leading the league. There were a lot of 35-yard ropes down the sidelines over an outstretched hand that went off

a titans, you know, hand. I can't believe the West hasn't used what is maybe the best bit of artillery against Mettenberger is that you've already seen him in an offense with Odell Beckham and Jarvis Landry. That's fair. What more is he going to get in Tennessee? That's a good point. He's a great scientific experiment. Can you win in 2015 being a statue? And can you win with that haircut that he's got? All right, let's move to the tight ends.

I like his haircut. You've got who, Mark Sessler, on the top of your list. The little bit of the difference here is because we coming off a wide receiver class, which is maybe the best ever, most exciting in decades. And the tight end class, I thought in general, compared to some, of the hype coming out of the draft, especially when the Detroit Lions go out and draft Eric Ebron, 10th overall. The finish results were underwhelming, certainly statistically. Anyone that picked these guys up in fantasy thinking this is going to save me, it's a big

late season pickup. Well, it's not. These guys just did not pull it off, but what changed my mind a little bit about two of them, which was Eric Ebron and Austin Safarian Jenkins, was I think there's hope for these two. I really do, looking at them. I don't know what that projects too long term, but I looked at the way they were drafted, which was Ebron, Safarian Jenkins, and Amaro, and I don't change that order. Because part of this exercise, so how would you change it? For me, what I saw, I think Ebron is the most interesting player still among this group. And he's in a good situation there.

It's extremely rare for a tight end to come in as a rookie and meet expectations, much less exceed them. Guys like Jimmy Graham, you know, all kinds of guys. I can't think of it but there are a lot Gronk only have 500 yards as a rookie tight end is so hard

because you have to learn how to block you have to learn how to catch it's just a lot's going on yeah and looking at kind of some stories about each of these guys too and just hearing their own words that kind of they all owned up

to the fact that they were lost for a big part of the season and that's probably not untrue of the quarterback situation too but they're the only guy out there that's asked to be a pass catcher in some cases and I saw you know, especially with Ibron, like they used him in a way, which was almost low risk for part of the season.

He had a lot of work in the flats, and they'd ask him to kind of crack off a tackle, quickly turn, and catch a pass for five yards. They used him in the same pattern over and over. But then he showed these flashes. I think when he got out of his head a little bit and he let his body take over, you start to see what's down the road. With him and Safarian Jenkins especially, I think that in Tampa, Safarian Jenkins may make a big leap this year too, because, number one, part of it is situation. They had issues with the quarterback, and they can't keep the quarterback on his feet.

They had no offensive coordinator last season. You now go to Dirk Cotter, who has done a great job with Titans in the past. He's got a full off season. I think he's going to have a, he may double his statistics, if not more. Yeah, he was really disappointed to me last year because I liked him in that draft.

I thought he was going to be a big-time player. He's huge. Like, He brought a lot of drops, didn't he? He did. No, I mean, I thought hebron would make a boneheaded mistake every time I looked. I don't remember though. I mean, that's just what you remember from watching the games on TV. He did. Seems like he wasn't

really good at contested catches. Well, there was a couple times where he's bobbing the catch, and to me it just seemed that he's so up in his head that he couldn't just let the gifts that would have been present in college even the year before work, because he's got the size, and he's got a great

burst. One thing about him is like, he could quickly get past the line, get into space, catch the ball and he'd be five yards ahead in a flash and he'd pick up that yardage. And that burst is what separates him from a guy like Richard Rogers

who had a better statistical rookie. Sometimes the league and a much better quarterback. Yeah. Sometimes the NFL has to go the way of the players that are coming in. This is an ugly tight end class overall. At least the start.

We'll see. Jason Maro could get better, you think. Richard Rogers definitely showed potential. Crockett Gilmore was a good, you know, mid-round pick. But this upcoming tight-end class is also supposed to be terrible. Yeah.

Think about the quarterbacks of the last two years. Teddy Bridgewater is the only one that I'm really confident is going to be at least a mid-level starter. I think his floor is Alex Smith or Andy Dalton, and I think his ceiling is somewhere closer to Drew Brees or Philip Rivers. But other than that, like, we could have a couple straight years without really any big-time tight ends or quarterbacks. How does that happen? It's weird, especially at the tight-end position, because you'd think we'd start to, by now, start to see more of these types coming up.

But a lot of it has to do with what they're asked to do with the college. level, I guess. I mean, some guys who made a lot of plays in college didn't even appear on this list. Rogers was, you were thinking about early on being a little higher up for you. Well, he's the first guy I watched and I got a little excited about him. But then when I, the thing was when I went and watched the others closer, you see the difference in their athleticism. I think that Rogers really, really, he only had one drop out of 21 catchable balls. And to me, yes, he had, he showed good hands. He had some good contested catches. Got better as the season went on. But that is right. That's Aaron Rogers putting the ball right

where it needs to be. What about Jason Marrow was to play with Gino Smith and Michael Vick? You have to factor into that fact that Amaro was in a West Coast offense coming from Texas Tech. That's not a good fit out of the gate. Might be better with Shangeli. There was one game with Amaro where it looked like the light was finally flashing on.

It was the Broncos game where he had ten catches and he made a few plays. He did. He made plays downfield two versus just four yards up field. And then he went back to mistakes after that. Yeah, he did. I just think that was not a good fit. He also is someone that the athleticism drop off between the first two and Amarro was, for me, very noticeable.

I love it. I love getting a little crock of Gilmore into the show, Jason Marrow. You had Gilmore 5th. That's your tight end rankings. Those are going to be dropping over the weekend, really Friday into Saturday. You guys can check it out next week, NFL.com slash around the NFL. This is a nice little football nerdy show. I mean, we're diving into the deep, you know, seas of Jarvis Landry and Richard Rogers.

And now we're going to welcome in one of the nerdiest guys at the entire NFL media news group, Daniel Jeremiah. This is a segment, Mark, you weren't here for it, just to warn the list. I mentioned why, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm just telling them again, you know. Dan is here for it. People that love the Sessler, you can probably turn it off right now. That's a big segment of our female population. They just like listening to Mark.

That's news to me. staring up at the ceiling. All right, let's bring in Daniel Jeremiah. Let's talk a little bit about the draft. We taped this segment on Wednesday with Dan Hansis in the mix, so I'll send it over to Dan now. All right, here we go. Our guest in the studio right now,

former scout for the Eagles, Browns, and Ravens, former quarterback at Appalachian State. Appalachian. Okay, that's cool. He's now an anchor of our draft coverage here at NFL Network. You can see my path to the draft. check out his latest mocks on nfl.com he also has a podcast

Move the Sticks podcast available for download right now Daniel Jeremiah welcome to the around the NFL podcast I'm not imagining that right Wes he just kind of skipped over that is a little lower is this what normally happens around here he kind of murmured that TD always talks about the same team right

we're all you know he does talk about it all rowing in the same direction except for Hansus this has to be I was going to say this has to be and I'm very happy to have DJ in the studio this is exciting probably a tough moment for TD. He was looking at all his children behind the glass. He doesn't know every parent really has

a favorite. They never want to say it. But we know who the favorite is in this case. I probably say it. Coaches show, man. Oh, give me a break. Yeah, it's like the one time you have to choose between Billick and Marriucci, which you know, scintillating analysis did they have to go with. DJ, did you know that Brian Billick does the coaches

show with a ball and chain attached to him? Keep him in the studio. It's true story. All right. And anyway, DJ's here. How excited. the draft is upon us it's very close now you'll be heading to chicago win monday t d oh next question oh wow so we're going hate hate hate hate hate hate hate i'm beginning to think like i'm going to have a conversation with great great you just a little peek behind the curtain there was some you know consternation DJ is tougher to book than the president at this time a year it just even get 10 minutes

I feel like that... By the end of this, it was just going to be me and your... No, no, I'm just saying that didn't help the hands... Hansis is on the blacklist. He's already there. Briggs trying to work as a... No, I don't want to be there. I'm just saying that didn't help some of the handsest DJB.

But let's talk a little football. What do we got? At least. All right. I'm looking at your mock class. I'm looking at your top 50 players overall. A ton of... You have a lot of papers up, by the way.

Yeah, I decided to print them out. Why not? Very environmentally... I keep hearing all the good edge rushers. They make computers now. In this class. Give me a break, DJ. I like looking at the paper.

Okay, go for it. All these edge rushers in this class. It's almost hard to keep each one of them straight. Who is your favorite ed rusher? And kind of what separates the top guys for you between like Fowler and Shane Ray, you know, everyone at the top? You got a bunch of them. There's a whole host of them. Look, in terms of just pure talent, my initial list that I came out with had Randy Gregory at the very top.

And I still believe he's the most talented edge rusher in the drive. When you're putting together your own personal big board, I envision, okay, if I'm running a team, this is, you know, how it would stack my players, and I ended up moving Gregory down because there's significant off-field risk involved with him. So to me, I look at Dante Fowler. You want somebody that's twitched up, that's athletic, that can bend, can do all the, everything you want to see. He does it. At Florida, they asked him to drop a lot, so the numbers aren't as great in the sack productions.

Okay, it's not terrible. But great kid, plays hard, explosive, all that stuff, checks the box. So to me, he's the top guy. And then after that, I look at Shane Ray from Missouri. And some people, he talked to scouts. Some of them are down on him because he's got a real skinny lower half. He doesn't have kind of that ideal body. And he's not a real, real fluid athlete.

But what he does is he's got a lot of shock in his hips. He got a lot of shock in his hands. That's what you want, shock in the hips. You want to be able to roll your hips. I like that kind of party. And so he can do that. I like this kind of party. I have to say it's shocking the hip.

You know what? Actually, while you're talking, you're giving out all these scout. terms. Yeah, I hear twitchy, and oh, he's a twitch. Twitch-up, I always say Twitched-Tch athlete. What does that, what does that even mean? What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. That means just, it's another word for explosive. And, you know, people talk about. Odell Beckham, Quits.

Yes, it's not just, you know, a 40. That's not being quick twitch. I mean, quick twitches means boom, right away. Like, you get off the line. You're sudden. That's another word that we would use there. So that's kind of the definition. when Adam Archoletta was a quick Twitch athlete. Ooh, that's been many moons ago. What's the hottest buzz adjective in the game right now? Hottest buzz adjective.

It's good to see he's answering the question. Yeah, look, come on. We'll work past it. We're professionals, yeah. It's sushi day today. Do you eat sushi? Not here, no. Okay.

I had a bad experience about it. Did you really? I used to have a rule for real that if I can't see water, I'm not eating sushi. But I've been lucky the last few times, so I've, I've kind of broken my own rule. I like our sushi here. But the buzzword in scouting, gosh. Quick Twitch is up there.

Quick Twitch is way up there. Twitched up. I like that. Heavy-legged waistbender. Yeah, we always talk about guys having FBI, which is football intelligence. Oh, I like that one. You writing that one down?

FBI. We start using that in everyday life. And then let me see what else we got here. Is verticality verticatively use a pass at it? Okay, verticality. No, that's not anything. It's like more of an NBA-centered thing.

That's Jay Bill. If any come up over the course of the conversation, you will. Hey, I have another question. And two in a row, this could, I might get another. COD, by the way, is a good one. Dead on arrival? C-C-O-D. Oh, okay.

Cash on delivery? Change the direction. Oh, that's good. I like that one, too. Twitch-up athletes are good at changing direction. I'm looking at your scout potential. I'm looking at Daniel's latest two-round mock draft, which you can find at NFL.

By the way, the only person in the building that refers to me by my full first. Daniel. Yeah. I love it. Like the Elton John song. You're going to bake me some cookies, too, Grandma? Wow. No, Daniels could talk together.

Come on, bro. All right. That song, by the way, that Alton John song is a kid. And it looks like that. Yeah. My grandmother used to, no, she didn't. There was an old. You can see the tail lights heaven for Spain.

Danny Boy. Danny Boy. Well, yeah, I got that at a time. My grandmother used to play that on the, uh, on the animal. We share it. It's true. But I don't know if you've ever listened to the lyrics of Daniels flying tonight on a plane. Yes.

When you get a little older, you start to try to piece together what the song's actually about. I spend many an hour trying to piece that song together. You have Amari Cooper at number nine to the Giants, and that jumps out to me. You're literally scratching your head. Yeah, a little bit. He's talking about my mock draft while he's scratching his head. Very subtle. Very subtle, there, Zeus.

So Chris Wessling is actually literally in love. with Odell Beckham, with good reason. Victor Cruz, a stud before the knee injury. Is this DJ's way of saying, perhaps the Giants are already starting to look beyond Victor Cruz? They just can't pass on the guy. Look, I don't know. Let's see what happens with Victor Cruz's health, but he's going to play in the slot.

That's not going to mess with what you would have on the outside with Cooper and with Odell Beckham. What would mean, you know, obviously our guy from LSU. Ruben Rand. Ruben, Randall, thank you. Wouldn't be great for Ruben. Ruben wouldn't love that pick. But, you know, look, you talk to different people around the league.

and there is some school of thought where, look, we had the two physical teams in the Super Bowl, I get it. So it's been easy for us all to say, okay, it's about running the football. It's about, you know, being physical. But there's a lot of people when you talk to around the league that feel like the way the rules have changed,

the way the game's changed, screw it. We're just going to try and outscore everybody we play against. And so there's some thought there. You look at the Giants, and man, you look at that match-up situation you'd have with those guys on the field the same time. Wow.

Well, it's interesting. You don't have any receivers going in the top eight. You have four pass rushers. a couple defensive linemen and then two quarterbacks. Well, the Raiders, I think, would take a wide out if Leonard Williams wasn't there. But in this situation, with everything I'm hearing and talking to people, saying, okay, Mario is going to go two. It might not be Tennessee, but somebody's going to take him with a second pick.

So you think if Tennessee stays there, they would take two? That's, I everything, everybody that I've talked to just said he's going to go second. And people that I really, really trust. And so there's either Tennessee or some other suitors, I tend to lean towards them making a trade and somebody else coming in there. So you take the two quarterbacks off the board. Then you're at number three. I think Jacksonville.

Leonard Williams is a great player, but you've re-signed Tyson Aloeallo. You've signed the guy from Miami. What's his name from Penn State? Jared Odrick. You've got Sonderek Marks, who I think is one of the best interior pass rushers in the NFL. So Leonard Williams, for them, is not as big a need. They need an edge rusher. So that's why I think that just drops Leonard Williams right into the lap of the Oakland Raiders.

Your number one player, which surprised me. How do you answer the people that say Leonard Williams, like very toolsy, you know, he looks like the guy that you can project to being a great player, but his tape really isn't that impressive. Maybe a two-down player, not a pass-rusher? That's crap. That's crap? Yeah, no.

Because he's your number one player. Yeah, no. So, tell us why. We'll go back and watch him last year, first of all, when he's fully healthy. He got a high ankle sprain. Like, one of the criticisms he gets is against Stanford, which to me is, this is why fly-by-scouting is so dangerous when you don't have all the information. That's a good scouting term, fly-by-scouting.

Yeah, that's my favorite. Dan wrote that. All these draft nicks. You're not scratched. Fly by. Not scratching your head anymore over there, are you? These terms flying around. That was a home run.

He's got HR speed, by the way. FBS. Home run? There you go. No, but I mean, look, where were we talking about? Leonard William. Last year. So this year, a lot of people have talked about, oh, the Stanford game, you know, that's

an NFL-type offensive line, and he didn't do it. The guy had a high ankle sprain that week in practice. He's not supposed to play in the game. He comes out for warm-ups for like five minutes. They take him off the field, which I assume he probably goes and gets a shot. He ends up coming out with a heavily wrapped ankle He plays guts through it USC upset Stanford

He played solid He had a couple disruptive plays But he's not going to look to use the word Ultra twitched up when you just had a high ankle sprained on Tuesday of game week And so so many people are like I watched him against Stan I'm like He wasn't even healthy in that game

Go watch him when he's healthy last year And watch we did this year He never comes off the field I just look I see a guy with length With strength He's got quickness What they ask him to do in that defense It's a three-man front

They're asking him to sit there and anchor down He'd do that all day long. He'll press off blocks. So who's he like for people like us who don't know much about it. Look, I've said it. I know Mayok said it before. I've used the Richard Seymour comp. And to me, it's because he has that versatility to move him around.

And body type-wise, they're similar. They're kind of got like a, they're long, they're smooth-muscled guys. They're not just, you know, there's different types. Can he pick people up and throw him? That's what Seymour could do his first few years in the league, which was crazy. He does. Not like Danny Shelton. If you want to watch somebody throw people, watch Danny Shelton at Washington.

Watch him against Stanford, where he literally forked. He likes them on the ground. He's a powerful. Literally like he drove a forklift up to the field. Took him out. I like that. Lifted him up and dumped him. What's going on now that you're rising?

By the way, can I give you my favorite, Dan, my favorite, you talk about scouting terms? Yes, sir. We had an old scout, and I've told this on my podcast, which is the Move the Sticks podcast. This is going to edit it out in post, isn't it? Dan's going to physically. We're going to beep it. We're going to destroy the master file. So we had an old scout.

His name was Ron Marsnack with the Baltimore Ravens. And when he was talking about a player one day, I literally lost it in the draft room because he's reading his report. So he literally wrote this in the computer. And he said, this player, you know, not any production, he leads the league in high fives and butt slaps. Because he gets there just in time to high five a teammate or pat him on the butt for making the play.

He wrote in his report. I was like, okay. My favorite scouting term ever was about a baseball slash football player, Adam Dunn. Yeah. Reds Baseball Scout who signed him. I think his name was Julian Mock. Wrote on the Scatter Report,

so big he hunts bear with a switch. I didn't have played a little football. Topical. You're a couple months late on that one, Wes. You are, your profile is rising by the year as like a draft nick. Let's face it. You're becoming a known quantity in the industry. Not a big fan of that word.

No. Now, because you like draft expert, draft analyst. The Draftnick implies like a basement and, you know, you don't shade. Plus, you give us the NFL analysis. I don't like the draft people that just all draft all the time. I want a little NFL analysis. That's true, Greg. Well, here's an interesting point on that because that is true.

And I always, we always cross-checked. Not every team does this. Some teams you're a college scout, so you just watch college players. That's it. You don't have to do with any of the NFL stuff. But Ozzy did it and Phil Savage did it as well coming from that school was in the training camp. would go out and watch different pro teams, we'd have players were responsible for, we'd be ready for cut down day.

Which was nice because many hands make light work in order to look at all the different players, but it was always helpful for me to go back and see guys in the NFL that you had scouted to really say, okay, who's doing well, guys I hit on, guys I missed on, kind of self-evaluate, and then you realize what's playing, and you look at who's starting. Like, to me, offensive linemen for young scouts is hard because you have it in your mind. You've got to be this long, athletic, and you know, these Jonathan Ogden, who we had involved, like, those guys,

are so rare, just give me a guy, if you look at who's playing in the NFL at the offensive line, you're smart, you're tough, and you can anchor. If you can do those three things, you can play. So we thought, oh, he's not a bad athlete or he's on the ground here, they're like, looking around the NFL, look what's playing it right tackle in this league. Those guys are going to play. Do you think there's too many guys in your business that, you know, once these guys get drafted, they don't check back in on them and that could lead to? I don't know. I think it's very helpful to do it. It puts me behind, you know, with the draft process because you do the NFL stuff during the fall and then all of a sudden, boom, we've got to

change gears and really get rolling on the draft. I've got a question that will test your micro draft knowledge and your macro NFL knowledge. Oh, boy. Todd Gurley. DJ's looking at the door. I know you probably love the word buzz. There's now buzz that he could go in the top 10. Yeah.

On a macro level, is this devaluation of running backs overrated? If you're a three-down powerback, you're still going to get money and you're still going to be valued highly? I think so. Macro, micro, devaluation, money. I feel like this is an econ class. What's going on here? Don't act like you're not just watching a replay of an EPL game. Whoa.

Trying to stay plugged in here. No, you're doing good. No, look, to me, these are two of the best backs we've seen come out in quite some time when you look at Gordon and Gurley. I was surprised you had them so close together. Yeah, I think Gordon's a really, really good player. And while I was waiting to get medical back on Gurley, I'm sitting here saying, I know Gordon's healthy. So for the first part of it, I had him one spot over Gurley. And then now the medical has come back pretty clean on Gurley.

So like, okay, I think I'd rather roll with Todd. But both those guys are big-time guys. And I think we get carried away with the positional thing, and it just kind of comes in waves. And we just haven't had those backs roll through. And I think this year that'll put a stop to that. I think we'll see both those guys go round one. How about LT saying on our airwaves that Todd Gurley is the best running back prospect

since Adrian Peterson? I think a lot of people believe that. I think you pull people around the NFL. I get scared when I hear that because exactly what everyone said about Trent Richardson. Exactly. No, and look, Trent, I didn't have to do it. Trent when he came out? I don't remember.

I guess I was in Philly. I think I was in Philly that year, but he wouldn't. I didn't have to evaluate it. It's convenient for you now. No, well, I did Jamarcus Russell, if you want to go down that. But, no, but yeah, I mean, the way everybody talked about him. But there's something there. I mean, I don't think this is just a football issue with Trent Richardson

because he just looks so, so lethargic the way he plays. Sluggish. I'll leave that one alone. All right, we should let DJ go get his sushi momentary. Greg, do you have anything else you want to have? There's so many papers in front of you. I'd imagine there's got to be another question in there. Greg, one's like a private two-hour conversation with DJ.

Well, how about you got 10 receivers in your top 50, which is outrageous? I think I had 10 in my top 50 last year, and you know what everybody said? That's crazy. There's no way there's 10 receivers. And then I'm like, hmm, let's go back and look at those 10 receivers. Which ones of them didn't play well last year? Oh, zero. So you're saying this class basically right there.

This is what college football has given us. And there's no cornerbacks. There's very few cornerbacks in your top 30. Yeah, it's not a great group. You like Byron Jones, not just a freak athlete. He's a player. No, I think he's going to go. I think he's got a really good chance to go in the first round.

If you had to take one of the kind of second level wide receivers and running backs, maybe guys that won't go in the top 20, who are your favorites favorites? This is one of my favorite players in the draft is David Cobb from Minnesota. And I think he could go in the fourth round, maybe gets into the third round. But just he's, we talk about short area quickness and be able to make people miss in tight quarters, vision, all that stuff, really, really good. He's not a four three guy. Twitched up?

No, he's quick. I wouldn't say he's like... He's classic FBI, COD. Yeah, there you know. Nice, nice. Thank you. Says the butt slapper and the high fiver over here. No, look, I love David Cobb.

From a receiver standpoint, Tyler Lockett from Kansas State, who's like a poor man's T.Y. Hilton, which is a compliment. He's a really, really good player. Those guys keep slipping in the draft, T.Y. Hilton, John Brown, those little guys that can work out pretty well. And he can help you in the return game. So I think he's going to be a good. value.

And just to finish my question that I started, so you're rising up amongst draft analysts. Wait, he's waving his arm. He's saying he's done. Come on. Go ahead. Go ahead. He has an SLO. No, no, go ahead.

Do you have to have, like, a burner phone at this point? Aren't there front office guys coming at you all the time? People showing up in trench coats, whispering things to you, handing $100 bills. What's going on? Next question, guys. Wow. You can read into that. He has his own Drew Rosenhouse.

All right, that's it. You know I love you. I love you too bad. Daniel Jeremiah, the Move the Sticks podcast, which really is, it's something on the rise. It's something you should check out if you haven't already. It's a show you can listen to if you want. If you choose, America allows you to listen to it.

And also other nations around the world, DJ's podcast, Move the Sticks, you can download it. Tune to roll for me, please. So, yeah, check that out. And thank you, DJ. All right, that was Jovial. with Daniel Jeremiah learned a little bit about the draft. Hopefully you learned a little bit about the 2014 draft. Dan's going to be really mad because once again the show went really long when Hansis the sheriff was not around. Happy birthday, Daniel. He's a great friend to all. Just imagine if he answered the phone. Thank you, Dan, for all that you do. And thanks to Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and TD. I'm Greg Rosenthal. We're going to be back next week with three big draft shows, including a draft preview. Go get my lunch. on Monday.

They'll get my lunch, clown car. Looking forward to that. We'll tape that before West heads over to Chicago, so that'll drop on Monday. Until then, we'll see you next time. This is an IHeart podcast.