NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - 2020 Fantasy Extravaganza

Episode Date: August 26, 2020

THE BIGGEST FANTASY FOOTBALL SHOW OF THE DECADE. MIRTH. ADP. RBs. QB1s. All the terms! HUGE guests. Adam Rank. Marcas Grant. Liz Loza. Evan Silva. Matthew Berry. BUCKLE UP BABY, IT'S DRAFTN' SZN.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome to the seventh annual around the NFL fantasy extravagantly. My name is Dan Hansis, coming to you from a virtual room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal, Ricky Hollywood. What's up? Ladies and gentlemen.

My first question, do we have the rights for this epic music that we're listening? If we didn't, you drew attention to it anyways, but yes, it's in our library. I think anything over 100 years old, you have the rights to, that's from like the 1,500. So I'm going to. Yeah. I think we're all set on this. And why does the music sound like this? Greg's going to ask after we're done recording. The reason is because this is a celebration.

It's a celebration of fantasy royalty. And we're going all the way back to the time of kings and queens to give you the best fantasy advice and insight possible as you get ready to draft in the next couple of weeks ahead of week one kickoff. That's why it is the extravaganza. And we have an incredible, yes, great. No, I want to hear the lineup. No, we have an incredible lineup joining us. In a couple of minutes, we have the great Adam Rank of NFL Network. Another, his pal, his colleague, and our friend Marcus Grant, also joining us.

Liz Loza of Yahoo, who knows her stuff. Evan Silva, the Big Fish, joins us. And then Matthew Berry, one of the most well-known fantasy. guys out there joins the around the NFL podcast fantasy extravaganza i mean great how about that i mean you built let's talk about it you built rhodor world brick by brick so i know that your standards are high when it comes to who the guest list is in an exercise like this how you feeling right i i'm feeling shivers tingles like the excitement not you know i miss i miss west you know chris wesley who helped me build it fellow brick layer you know brick by brick at rhoda world

along with Silva. But I also feel like this is a celebration because it's a culmination. It's a culmination of a seven-year process of a man named Mark Zessler being out on a street corner, not even really inside the fantasy extravaganza. A guy who thought of it, you know, fantasy heads were hobby horses as he waited for some sort of world-ending event to happen. And then here we are. In the middle of a pandemic, the world event, ending event is here.

and there's Mark embracing fantasy like never before looking for that the fantasy street corner now fully gentrified and he's in out of the cold and he's talking ADP

leading up to today's show he's sitting in on mock drafts with strangers and now here he is with us for the first time ever on the extravaganza as a full-time member you know it was about 15 minutes ago

that I had to ask Greg what is the site that you use to get like the official ADP on these guys So I really, I view you guys just like, like my parents taking me into the big city for the first time. And I'm kind of holding your hands and like in awe of the big buildings and buses. So, you know, I couldn't be more of a newbie, but let's give it a go. All right.

This is exciting. This is our 17th annual fantasy extremists. And without further ado, we welcome the man who is part of last year's event, which I believe was the 25th annual fantasy extravaganza. He is the legend himself. Adam Rank. Oh, yes, the king himself,

the man that mixes mirth with fantasy like no one else, Rank, what's up, buddy? What's going on? You know what? Part of me feels like I should be offended that I'm the curtain jerker on this show. you're going through the whole list of like all the luminaries and then here's me coming out first hey everybody stick around for Pablo Francis like that's no stop of that you are not you know

you know the first guy's got to come with the heat if we're asking you to go you know you're not you're not Barry Horowitz rank don't worry no that's it that's exactly what I am I am uh Hurricane Helms I'm here to just look up at the lights at the end of the at the end of my three minute match and be happy with all, although I will point out that Brock Lesnar kicked off WrestleMania two years ago. So somehow in my mind, as I was waiting backstage in the green room, I had decided like, oh, I'm the Brock Lesnar of this thing. It's a relevant complaint, Adam.

I think you should maybe look into it and why it happened this way. If you go to a roast, you know, you go to one of those roast or whatever, who do they have go first? One of the big hitters, he doesn't start out, you start out big. maybe not the biggest but like the second or third goes goes first which is fine and i i think that it's it's perfectly acceptable to be in awe of what matthew barry has done and it's like okay but still i got to go first like that's it like really and it is and it's not only that and the thing that kind of got me the other day too and like listen i love matt berry like there's no disrespect

But Gardner Minshew is doing a commercial for an alcohol company, and there's a contest. I don't want to say who it is. They didn't pay me to be in this commercial. So why am I giving them the rub? And Gardner Minshew, he named drops Matthew Berry. And Gardner Minshu plays for Tony Kahn's Jacksonville Jaguars. And last year when we did League One, was there a WWE superstar on that show? No, there was not.

I went in the family. I had Cody and Brandy Rhodes be a part of League One. And then there's a commercial with Gardner. And I don't get to be. He doesn't name drop me. How dare you deserve the pop. I get that. I deserve the rub.

Like, come on, Tony. Why couldn't you say my name? A wide variety of complaints here. This is all, yeah. This is everything. It's like, that's my normal role. Well, you know what? Actually, we had Cessler on this.

that fantasy spectacular recently. I mean, he's so plugged into fantasy now. It's unbelievable. I mean, that's the synergy that we're looking for at and they talk about that in our office when we used to go to an office

and I think that we gave them a piece of pie right there. That's a big, you know, I don't know why it's pie. And now it's crossover. I love this. I love coming on ATN. I know when it's like when the kids

they used to do this. And again, I'll go back to the wrestling analogies because, you know, the four people who've ever heard of me always know me for wrestling. And it's like when, like, when Ring of Honor guys show up in New Japan, it's like super cool. You're like, oh, my God, here's Cody.

And he's, you know, he's fighting the Rainmaker or whatever it is. Yeah, no one knows what you're talking about. No, the four guys, the four guys who know who I am, who, these guys, those guys, they, my blue world order shirt is being blocked by this microphone. They still know what it is. That's, that's how in tune they are to me and professional wrestling. Play the hits, I always say, you know, to that I do. Listen, they would be disappointed if I didn't do it. But no disrespect.

There's a great lineup, though. I appreciate being on, though. After all those complaints, I do appreciate it. You were here later and you killed it, so we have to lead it off with family and ranks a perfect choice. And, you know, of all the great stuff you do both on NFL Network, and by the way, check out, I believe, and no, it's not off-brand. And does the fantasy spectacular sound kind of similar to the fantasy extravaganza?

Yeah, but the fantasy guys for NFL media are doing their own thing, and they kill this fantasy game weekend and week out. So make sure you check out the spectacular, which just came out this week. And one of your most popular things you do, right? Featring me, just to, you know. I was going to say, Cessler was on that. He was amazing. That's all I'll say.

He killed it. It was amazing. I couldn't stop watching it. If you watch the minute sizzle reel, Cessler is the headliner of that. See, we didn't put Cessler first. We put Kyle Brandt first. We kept Cessler for the end,

which is kind of not what's happening here. Well, we've learned our lesson, clearly, how Rank expects to be treated when he's on the ATN pod, and we will act accordingly in the future. Let's talk about don't be that guy. Yeah. Because Rankin has written work on the dot com, on the network. Don't be that guy.

with the 2020 draft coming up, get us, get us going, rank. Tell us how you should avoid being that guy. Don't be that guy. Well, thank you so much for that kind setup. And I know anybody here who's listening for like sleepers and all that stuff. Listen, you heard the lineup. There are people way more qualified than me to talk about that stuff. I'm more of like your friend who is there.

And I'm trying to advise people. And I know a lot of, you know, you have a huge UK audience, which is amazing. I know a lot of them are getting into fantasy football. So there's a couple of little tips I would like to tell them before they start their fantasy drafts because there's always going to be one person who seems out of place, who seems like they're in over their head in fantasy. And if you don't know who that person is, then it's you. I kind of want to help you out. No, that's a thing.

Like these are or it's more rules. It's either you or Mark. Well, it's, there we go. There's so many things. Yeah. And so maybe I'm speaking to an audience of one right. Now, this is Mark Sessler as he's getting in the right. We're down from four to one now that rank is speaking to.

That's really, we're trending in the wrong direction. This is what I'm listening. Listen, anybody who sees me at the comedy store or flappers, this is usually my thing. It's like there's one person who gets me in a room full of 300. And I focus in on that person. And they get, oh, yeah, I killed. I killed one guy. Like, listen, the other $2.99, they were like, whatever.

But it's like, why does he have a copy of Catcher in the Ryan's pocket concerning? Wait, was that a throwback to that Mel Gibson movie? I'll also throw back to the gentleman who attempted to remove Jody Foster from society. All right, Rankwell, your time is up here. It's great having you. Listen, you're talking about world events. I'm talking about conspiracy theory. One of Julia Roberts' least known movies that I've seen a thousand times outside of Ocean.

No Pelican brief. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. I'm sorry. I know that I'm supposed to. I'm here for fantasy stuff, but this is why I was producing the show ahead of time, being like, might as well not even plan on me talking fantasy, because it's not going to happen. I'm going to give you a couple of kids.

We're going to get it out of you. No, you're not going to. Don't be that guy. No, you're not the guy. Don't be the guy who keeps talking and doesn't allow the draft to start, because that always happens. Like somebody will come similar to what I'm doing right now, where somebody's just there filibustering, eating nachos. You're like, we're supposed to start this draft 20 minutes ago, and you won't shut

up about obscure movies or whatever it is we have a draft some of us have families we got to go but anyways that wasn't one of them the first one though like sincerely is always be prepared and it always seems weird that i have to tell people this because even back in the day and i think that gregg's old enough to remember when fantasy drafts would kind of go like this where you would be driving to your friend's house you would stop by a grocery store and i don't know if anybody remembers grocery stores but you would go in there and buy a magazine and you can google that or ask your parents what that was, you would buy a magazine and you would show up and you would go off these rankings that were written in March, you know, before even three agencies started

and you're like, oh, do I want to take, you know, I'm going to take Devanta Freeman because they have him printed here. You're like, yeah, by the way, he's not in the NFL right now. That's the thing is that we have all this information at our disposal that we have the all new NFL fantasy app that not only has rankings in ADP mark. If you wanted to find ADP, you could have gone to the all new NFL fantasy app. Well, I'm learning. I'm learning from you on the fly. There's a link in my IG bio.

If you want to go check it out and download, you can do that. You can also, you can also win a Travis Matthew plug shirt. But now, listen, I'm not here to do plugs. I'm not here to put over people who sponsor me or anything like that. Listen, you got, listen, you got to be an influencer. Dan, this is what, this is what I do. I mean, the fantasy's fine. The next step.

But I'm going to be an influencer. Listen, I'm going to be living off Portillo's gift cards for the rest of my life, but I got to make sure that I get all those plugs in in order for that to happen and feed my fan. I get it. You know what I'm saying? I get it. That's why I'm saying to be prepared.

Be prepared. Well, let me ask you this. If you're listening to this podcast right now, Rank, and your draft is on Sunday night, is it already too late? Is there a way to cram? Okay. What's the most effective way to prepare?

I would once again go and download the all-new fantasy app. You will have rankings there. You will have mock drafts. I can't stress this enough to go in and do some mock drafts. You know, like when we're leading up to the actual NFL draft, you see mock drafts, they're fun. This you can do for fantasy and try out a number of different things. Maybe in one time you're like, I'm going to go running back, running back here, and see what my team looks like. Or maybe I'll start with a receiver in George Kittle and see which running backs I end up with.

Or there's a number of different things that you can do. So you want to go in there and you want to be ready. You don't want to go in there and be thrown off because you always want to be like the, amoeba. You always got to be moving. You got to be fluid. You know, you can't let them, you can't go on tilt when something like, if you're going into a draft and you're convinced, like, I'm going to take Miles Sanders first in the first round and be at the end of the draft. And if somebody picks him ahead of you, then you know, I'm going to, I'm a more falls out. Yeah. Yeah. So you've got to be ready for that and be always be ready to go. And so that's

why you want to be prepared. You don't want to be like that kid who is in your math class. You remember the guy who would show up and he always had a jean jacket with a wool collar. He's like, boy, we have, we have a test today. Bro, dude, can I borrow a pencil? Like, dude, what? How is this possible? How do you not know? There's, it's on the top.

That was definitely you, Adam. Definitely not me. I was a schoolboy. Really? Look at me. Like, there was, I had nothing going for me other than the teachers liked me. Like my, if I pulled out my high school yearbook right now, it would be notes from Mrs. White and and Miss Shoemaker, like, hey, you were such a great student.

Thank you. Are they sponsoring you, too? No. It's not like there were girls leaving me notes or messages or anything like that. It was the teachers, my friends. All right. So don't be the guy that's unprepared. I hate that person.

You show up and got a bag of Del Taco and you're not ready. You're asking to borrow my phone. Okay, sorry. Also, this is an actual legitimate fantasy tip. And this is for the newbies. This is for people, they need to know this. Don't take a quarterback early, which goes counterintuitive to every. thing that you know about the NFL where the quarterback is the most important position,

whereas in the NFL, if you draft Mitch Hibiske and not Patrick Mahomes, you're probably not going to win. But in fantasy football, you can actually win by skipsy. Ryan Pace should be a fantasy player because that way, not taking Mahomes would actually work out for you. Because last year, listen, in the first five games of last year, Patrick Mahomes was playing at an MVP level. He was all. awesome. He was crushing it. He was still the quarterback five in fantasy. The guy who was number one was Lamar Jackson, who I drafted in the 12th round. Like that is what, and listen, we can talk about the theory of quarterback points and anything like that. And I know it's stupid. And I know there's

people out there who are like, dude, I won my league with James Winston last year. And that's the fantasy footballers and they suck. But no disrespect to them. But like, there's got to be, there's Right on the edge. No, there's got to be something to fantasy scoring. It's like, James threw four picks. How did he have as many points nearly as Lamar Jackson? Yeah, that's a stupid scoring system. It's a bad, it gets Chris Wesleyan all fired up, that quarterback.

I would argue, though, like, wouldn't you say don't be the guy who has like some rule that they just stick to that rule? Because as you mentioned, who was a bigger league winner than Lamar Jackson? and people would have said you were the guy that took him too early if you just were like, I believe in Lamar Jackson, I'm taking him in the fifth round. And that would have been too, like,

that would have been fine. If you, like, you got lucky that no one took them before you in round 12. But fantasy people were saying, you know, don't take them too early. Anyone that just had a belief in him,

and they were right, you couldn't have taken him too early. You won you your league. Yeah, I know, but you, or Mahomes the year before. That's fine,

but you, so it happens. You could walk into, you could walk into in and out burger and say, I will give you $20 for a double, but you don't have to pay that. It's still $3. You can still wait.

So, yes, there is a, there's a counterbalance right there of, you know, getting the guy that you want, but not overspending, although I, and I run into that, too, in home leagues with, like, two of my friends, the DePaolo brothers, they watch every episode of Fantasy Live. They read every piece of content I ever put out. If I ever want, like last year, that very situation worked out, because in most leagues, I was getting Lamar Jackson in round 10, 11 or 12. They drafted him, or one of them, Mark did.

Drafted him in the fifth round last year. I'm like, I'm like, what happened? He's like, I've been watching your show, bro. I'm like, this is the worst thing. That's terrible. And I didn't win because of that. Try doing, I remember when we were at Roto or NBCSports.com, there was an office pool and everyone's just using your rankings.

It's very complicated. It's very complicated to draft against that. Yeah. Right. Give us one more. Right. Give us one more. First world problem. Is my time almost up? There's time's nearly up. So give us one more. You know what, though? I kind of want to piggyback on what Greg is saying, though, is that don't be afraid to play scared.

You know, or don't play, don't be the guy who's too scared to make a move. And I, you know what, I did get fortunate that somebody didn't jump ahead of me and take Lamar Jackson. And what we're seeing this year is Clyde Edwards-Alaire is going as the fifth overall pick in some drafts. And what I see, these kids come on to my Instagram post, and they're like, I got to see him play first. Like, guess what? You're not going to get that opportunity. That's not happening in this world. You can't be afraid.

If you want to pick and be safe and you know who Todd Gurley is and you've seen him play and you've seen Leonard Fornett. And you know what? Enjoy fifth place because playing it safe will get you nowhere. Listen, I understand that there will be times that I finish in first place and there are times where I finish dead last. but I'm not afraid to take my guys. So that is one of my rules. So don't be the guy who's playing scared, because scared money, don't make money.

I like it. That bugle, is it a bugle? Trumpet, who knows, means more royalties entered the room and it is Adam Ranks colleague and friend, Marcus Grant. What's up, Mark? I'm friends after all these years.

I'm excited to be here. I'm glad that was a welcome. welcoming sound. I was a little bit alarmed, but I didn't know what was happening at first. That's what we're going for. You need to make a royal proclamation now. I decree that Tyrod Taylor is getting my unofficial hard-knox fantasy bump, just mostly because of his quarantine style, I think, is primarily the reason. Good decree. Well, you nailed it, Marcus, that it looks like Donald Glover from This Is America video.

rank thank you so much again you're not a curtain jerker you're going to be you're going to be the Saturday night main event headliner you're going to do all in this business rank I can feel it enjoy Marcus grand everybody have a good one all right Adam rank we send him off and now the stage is yours Marcus you know Tyrod Taylor is one of those guys and happening again on the latest hard knocks

every year you just get sucked in because and it happened when he was on the Browns hard knocks with Baker Mayfield behind him on the depth chart. His leadership, you're sucked into it, what everything the coaches are saying. And you start to think to yourself, wow, this guy is the greatest person and greatest quarterback of all time. And then he's on another team the next year. But still, he'll be playing in this league a long time in our league because he's like

a glue guy in a locker in a quarterback room, even if he's not necessarily your starter. That'll play. You're right. And it's funny because I have sort of over the course of this fantasy draft season, sort of talked him up in my own head. No one was considering Tyrod Taylor early in draft season. Then I start seeing these side-by-side statistical comparisons of him and Josh Allen. And the numbers when they were both Bill's quarterbacks were fairly similar.

And I keep saying to myself, well, great runner, Tyrod Taylor. How is it that Tyrod's not getting any fantasy love? But we all love Josh Allen as an industry as this kind of mid-round guy who's ready to be a top-10 fantasy quarterback. It didn't make any sense to me. Now, I haven't been bold enough to actually put my money where my mouth is and draft tie rod in any leagues. But I have told myself a story where he is going to be potentially a top football quarterback. Isn't he going to get Mayfield the way he didn't leave?

Right. So he's got a first round pick behind him. October? That is sort of the thought process there. Justin Herbert is just waiting for one slip up to come and jump in and take that gig. I think that's what's held people back. But, you know, look, hey, with no preseason games, when they limited off season.

Tyrod could hold on to this job for at least the first half of the season. You want to be like a last round QB2 guy, which I used to like to do quite a bit, just wait until the last round, and he feels like a guy for that sort of slot. He's absolutely the guy for that slot. So, Marcos, we're going to talk about a couple things. We're going to get to the running backs in a second. But what is your philosophy when it comes to the quarterback room? Do you, you know, I play in a two-quarterback league, which I know is unorthodox,

but we love it because that puts more. importance on the quarterback in fantasy. And we talked about it just now with Rank and Wes's was yelling about it on Monday that the quarterback doesn't get enough love in fantasy. And he's the single most important player in football. So when is fantasy going to figure that out? I guess having a two QB league addresses that on some front, but let's stick with the one QB league, which most people do.

Should you wait on QBs or do you grab one of those top tier talents if they're there for you? I have started to kind of shift my philosophy on. that because I was, you know, sort of like everybody else, the weight on a quarterback crowd. You know, you always find those guys. I always had that guy that I would refer to as the patron saint of the church of weight on a quarterback. I mean, for years, it was like Philip Rivers. It was Matthew Stafford.

I think Tom Brady has sort of graduated into that category this year down there in Tampa. But last year, I really got to a point where I said, look, if you are going to draft a quarterback early, go get yourself a good one. Now, at the time, when I said that I was thinking about Patrick Mahomes, I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I predicted Lamar Jackson running for 1,200 yards and lighten the world on fire. But I really did feel like, and I agree with West completely, I don't understand why it is.

If we all agree that Mahomes is awesome, that Lamar Jackson is awesome, why it's considered a tactical disadvantage to go out and draft those guys. So I started to come around. I can't say that I've reached early enough to get a Mahomes or Jackson in a lot of leagues, but I feel a lot more comfortable in sort of those, you know, I guess early middle rounds, if you will, round five, round six, whether it's Dak Prescott, Russell Wilson is a name that I like a whole lot. I do feel some guilt into talking up Kyler.

I think Kyler is going to be great. I think we have talked him up past what potentially his draft value could be, but I think he's another reasonable option to take if you're looking in round five, six, or seven to go get a quarterback. I wonder if someone, one thing on quarterbacks. I wonder if Aaron Rogers has graduated into that second tier now in fantasy drafts. If it's finally going to happen now, where is he in this category? Yeah, it's happened.

I think for years we sort of left him in that top tier, and I think it was sort of muscle memory. We're just used to talking about Aaron Rogers so long there. But I think what we've seen, especially last year, even the last couple of years, is that he is starting to kind of fall off that pedestal. And I think, you know, I think the fantasy community and just drafters as a whole have sort of caught up to that, and so he's not getting just reflexively picked in the first five rounds like he used to. I'd ask you this about running backs, because it's not a question about

bus, but when you look at certain teams the way they're assembled, I think of Buffalo's backfield. You got Zach Moss, who's, you know, gaining steam by the week from reporters in camp. You got Devin Singletary there, the Pat's backfield, the Ravens. Like, do you have teams that, you know, when you're looking at who you're going to draft and what running backs you're going to target early? I'm not touching this team because it's too cloudy and we're drafting three days for now. Or do you just say, I like the idea of this guy. I'm going to go for it no matter what. It's Zach Moss.

It's fill in the blank. Jonathan Taylor. Yeah, no, there are backfields that I have just generally sort of avoided. The Rams is the one that is top of mind for me. Whatever Sean McVeigh has asked about his running backs, I mean, he will mention literally everyone. I mean, he'll talk about Cam Acres. He'll talk about Malcolm Brown and Daryl Henderson. and I really feel like he might have brought up Zach Stacey and Gaston Green at some point over the office.

Stacey reference. That's my Markis has been in the game a long time. So, like, I feel like I just, I can't get on board. You just earned Greg's respect there, Mark. I'm done here. I'm going to take off the headset and walk away now. I just, I've been able to stay away from that backfield because I just haven't really been able to get on board with it. They're one.

I feel like in the past, that applied to the 49ers in just a Kyle Shanahan backfield, although I feel like we've gotten a little bit more clarity over the years. I will say with, you mentioned Baltimore. I still am in on Mark Ingram. I think the J.K. Dobbins time starts sort of next year and beyond, but I still think Mark Ingram has a role. I look at Buffalo as sort of a mess because I like Devin Singletary's talent, but it just doesn't seem like the bills are that into him.

They keep putting obstacles in front of him. First, it was Frank Gore, who is going to live forever. You know, now it's Zach Moss, who's going to get those goal line carries. So there are, you are right. There are backfields you look at, and it's just, it's so cloudy for me that I have tended to just be hands-off. There is a point, I think, where that view becomes so prevalent that if you got to take on a player, go for it. Like, you don't have to, you can make a try. I love K-makers.

I could be wrong. I could be wrong in terms of the usage, for sure. But I just think he's a great player, and eventually guys like that will end up having value. And if you're a play, you might not agree with that one, but you might have a backfield. Like if you might have a guy in New England that you like, whether it's James White or Damon Harris, or you might have a guy. And I don't think people should be afraid just because you don't know who's going to get it week one. By week four or five, everything's going to be scrambled so much anyways that sometimes like there's a little bit of a week one bias in these drafts where everyone is thinking about week one, week two. Well, I think the upshot there, though, is because we get so much talk about, you know, uncertainty in backfields and, and, you know, no real clear number one.

I think what ends up happening is that everybody stays away, and then the ADP falls for these guys. And I always say that everybody is a good pick in the right spot, right? I mean, if Cam Acres or Darrell Henderson falls enough, sure, I'm willing to take that shot and see what happens with it. But if you're asking me, if I want to take a chance on Cam Acres in the sixth round, I'll tell you that I don't feel confident enough for it in that space. You know, I'm going after for Henderson, say, in round nine or ten. And so if we create enough confusion, if we blow enough smoke, maybe it does kind of help everybody else because that ADP starts to come down. Marcus, we have according to our own NFL fantasy ADP rankings, we have one, two, three, four, five, six players at the running back position going in the top ten of drafts right now. McCaffrey, Sequin, Zeke, Alvin Kamara, Derek Henry, Dalvin Cook.

of those stars, which is the one that you are maybe the most nervous about? And conversely, the one that you're like, oh, lock and loaded, I have no worries that this guy is going to disappoint me. Well, I'll start with the positive first. I mean, the guy that I am, CFC is on a completely different level right now because he's the closest thing to a one-man offense we've seen in a while in the NFL. But the other stud that I am all in on is Alvin Camara. Yeah. I think right now, I think you had him is, what, fifth, I think, on that list.

I have been taking him with the third pick in a lot of drafts. I mean, it's generally been on most drafts, CMC1, Sequant 2, and I am right there to grab Camara at number three. I mean, this is a guy. Yeah, ahead of Zeke. I like Zeke. I think he's fantastic, but I do see that offense kind of becoming more DAC-centered. And plus Tony Pollard's going to sneak in there, I think, and get some work. Camara is a guy who, one, just lost.

him in for 81 catches, right? I mean, that is the, that's the number every year for him so far this year. He still gave you pretty decent numbers despite not being healthy. I think, you know, you'll see his touchdown numbers come back up again. So I am not worried about him at all. The guy that I am a little bit worried about is probably Derek Henry, just because what he did last year was outstanding. It was great that they decided to lean on him and give him those opportunities. But he doesn't catch the football, which is something we really want, especially out of of a guy you're drafting in the first round of your fantasy leagues. He's just not going to get those targets in that backfield. The other part of it is, you look at his rushing totals, first of all. He had a 200-yard game in Week 17, which helped absolutely no one because pretty much all fantasy leagues are over. So that's something to take into account when you look at him this year. The other part of it is the touchdown numbers were really high, which is great.

It also seems like it's something that's going to be very hard to duplicate, especially if the Titans really are all in on Ryan Tannahill. and trying to give him, you know, more responsibility in that offense. I think Henry's going to be a top 10 running back when it's all said and done. I just would prefer to draft him more early second round than late first round. Well, you might have an argument from the big fish. Evan Silva coming up a little later. I know he's a big fan of the big dog, so we might have to bring that up.

You're talking running backs and those top guys are all, you know, pretty bulletproof. But I do have an issue looking at the ADP this year. That my biggest takeaway looking at it for the first time like this week was all these trashy running backs going in the second, third, and fourth round. And I don't, I just don't get it. We're going to talk receivers later with Liz Loza, so we'll leave that to the side. But I just don't get taking kind of bad players just because they're running backs in the second or third or fourth round. And I'll give you names. Gurley is like the most obvious one that I'm sure everyone's mentioned.

But Kenyon Drake, I love Kenyon Drake, like, as a player, but that seems a little wild considering his history. David Johnson, David Montgomery, now his injury will kind of knock him down a little bit. Like four net. It's just like, I know the average draft position tells you, and some of the analysts tell you, but it's like, why take pretty mediocre players when there are like great players still available that score just as many or more points at the receiver position? Well, I think you have quite a bit of wishcasting going on with some of these guys. I mean, you know, in the wise words of Rust Cola, time is a flat circle, right?

We started this thing where running backs were going to be coming off the board fast and furious in the early rounds. Then as PPR became more of a thing, we sort of pivoted to wide receivers. Now we're back to running backs because a lot of them catch passes and that certainly inflates their value. But we've also sort of started to reach for guys that we think could have workhorse roles. And I think, you know, we have told ourselves a story with some of these guys that maybe isn't exactly true. I mean, I will admit to being a guy who was big on Jinn and Drake, just seeing how the Cardinals used him in the back half of last season. And I haven't quite bought into this idea of Chase Edmund's eating into that workload the way Cliff Kingsbury suggests. And look, Cliff Kingsbury certainly knows better than I, but, you know, who am I?

I'm going to tell Cliff Kingsbury what I think you know. You're right. That's the one guy of that list that I would say has a chance to be awesome. It's like the other guys have kind of shown who they are, believe him. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think with Gurley, you know, I think early on in this offseason, I sort of thought Gurley maybe had an opportunity because I felt like the Falcons would use him more as a pass catcher, which is something the Rams just sort of abandoned last year. But, you know, hearing that when you talk about yards per route run, which is one of those advanced metrics that we like to look at, Tar Gurley was dead last among all running backs last year. That's no pointo. And I think that's something to take into account when you figure they also have, you know, Julio Jones.

Calvin Ridley, and they add Hayden Hurst. They've got other guys to throw the football to. So Gurley's one, Fournett is one that I've sort of stayed away from because how can I like a running back that doesn't seem to be liked by his own team? Yeah, no explanation needed on that one, Mr. Grant, no explanation needed. So, yeah, I, Greg, I totally get where you're coming from, but I do think because we have gone running back crazy in the early rounds, we have started to kind of reach for some fringe guys and try to tell us a story to make ourselves feel better about where we're taking them.

I had a quick one for you before we go here. Trades, all right, whether it's for running backs in season or whatever. How do you not be the dude that you always see these, like a tweet will be out there on someone just getting absolutely fleeced in a trade, and it's embarrassing. Their friends abandon them, their children are embarrassed to having their parents. How do you not get fleeced in trades? If you're a new player, what's your fear? Colton and Luke just being like, what?

You traded away Hopkins? I can't respect you, father. Yeah, how do you just not become a total dupist? How do you make sound transactions? Well, I mean, I think the first thing that I tell everybody is... Is this about fantasy football or like just life advice right now? I know. How am I getting in that?

My first piece of advice to everybody is don't worry about who wins the trade, right? Like I get a lot of tweets where people show me the deal and they're like, well, who wins this deal? And my answer to them is like, don't worry about winning. the deal worry about improving your team. That should be the first thing you look at when you make a trade. If you feel like you have filled a position of need, if you feel like you've gotten stronger at a certain spot, then, you know, to hell with what everybody else is going to say about it. Just feel like you got better. Now, at the same time, you know, it does sort of make sense to look at production, your past production and what the potential outcome can be for that

player because, you know, obviously you don't want to give up a Derek Henry type and, you know, in return, get, you know, the third wide receiver, you know, get Dante Pettus, right? You don't want to make that sort of deal. It's usually those two for ones. The two for ones when you're getting the one, you want to be the one. Right. The other thing I would say about that is that there are plenty of times you make a trade. And at the moment, it sort of looks one-sided, but then something happens.

Either a guy loses his gig, he unfortunately gets hurt, he just underperforms. And then by the time it all shakes out at the end of the year, that trade ends up looking a little bit more even than you thought. So I guess that's just a way of saying, just ignore the knee-jerk haters on Twitter because they're always going to be there. Your children will respect you by the end of this day, maybe once they look at the stats. Finally, Marcus, in the running back category, who's telling the truth about Labion Bell's hamstring? Lavian Bell or Adam Gase? I will say that, well, one, Adam Gase, I know doesn't have the best track record amongst us,

fantasy types that we don't necessarily trust his word. But at the same time, Leveon has a tendency to exaggerate over social media. So this is one that I think I am, I'm going to have the Bill Hater pop corn meme. I'm just sitting back and sort of watching the whole thing go down. And I am not claiming inside in this. What do you think about Bell? Because a couple of years ago, he's the best fantasy running back on the planet. Last year was a mess. But we've had reports before Wednesday's developments that he's in the best shape of his life and he's got a lot to prove and the offensive line is better? Is he a guy, stay away guy for you? Or a guy that you think can pile it up? I know you probably don't want to hear this as a Jets fan. I want them to trade Lev Bell. I want

him back into our fantasy lives because look, I look at the guys that I, you know, the Adam Gays expats from last season, right? Whether it was Ryan Tannehill, King and Drake, Devonte Parker, all these guys who got out from underneath him and then had some of the best years of their life. I think Lef still has something in the tank. I want him back in my fantasy life. So if they can find a way to show, look, as a USC love, I want the same for Sam Donald. I just want good things for these guys.

And I just don't think it's going to happen under Adam Gates. Sam's Donald. Yeah, maybe, maybe next year, maybe next decade. Who knows. All right, Marcus Grant, you've said it all. We thank you so much for joining us. And again, check out all marks. How long have you been at NFL Network, Mark?

This is season number 10 for me. Wow, look at you. Just like Mark and Dan. There you go. Grant knows his stuff. You can check him out on NFL network and is writing on NFL.com. Follow them on Twitter. Thank you, buddy.

And best of luck this season. Stay healthy. Appreciate it. Same to you guys. Be good. Uh-oh. You know what that sound means? It's another regal guest on the fantasy extravaganza.

And she is one of our face. favorites. She knows her stuff. She works for Yahoo Fantasy. But right now she's going to speak to us. Liz Loza. What's up, Liz? Oh, hello. I've never felt so regal wearing elastic waistband pants for six months. This is fantastic. Yeah, I mean, this is, we've decided it's kind of all royalty here for this fantasy extravaganza this year. And Liz is, you know, covering fantasy from every angle at Yahoo and you can follow her at Liz Loza underscore FF and for this part of the conversation Liz I mean, first of all, how you doing? Everything okay?

Yes, it's great. Best year ever. I mean, 2020, right? And I know I'm very honored, let me just say, to be here because while I am no big fish, my only hope is to be like a prognosticating mermaid of some sort. We can use that. It works, but it's coming up a little bit later on the show. But just being on this show, means you're a big fish. We were looking for, you know, any way we can help widen the divide between you and your Yahoo colleague Matt Harmon. So choosing you to come on to represent Yahoo, that was really, it was... Well, plugging his name certainly helps my cause, I suppose.

I know he'll appreciate that. You said the prognosticating mermaid? Sure, yeah, spellcasting. That has legs. Yeah. Or not, I guess I don't know, maybe we could work now. It has fins, dear. It has fins. All right, let's get into it, Liz. So we want to talk a little wide receiver with Lowe's. Liz could speak on any topic, but we're going to drill in now on wide receivers on draft day and making sense of the positional group. So when you look at the, well, let's start here.

When you look at the overall group, I think everyone kind of is decided, and with good reason, Michael Thomas is the guy. He's the number one guy. But I feel like he gets a little murky after that. So in terms of the top 10, before we dive in deeper, how do you see that shaking out if you're somebody that's looking to target a wide receiver and Michael Thomas isn't an option? Well, I don't really think it much matters for fantasy, frankly. After Michael Thomas, you've got Devante Adams, who I think, you know, could have been the wide receiver one last year, were it not for some bad luck in the end zone, frankly.

And I do expect his touchdowns to rebound quite a bit in 2020. But honestly, this position is so deep. And if we're talking draft strategy, in comparison, running back is so stinking shallow that I am willing to forego elite talent at the top in favor of hammering the running back position. So the top 10 guys, Thomas, Devante Adams, Tyreek Hill, DeAndre Hopkins still, Julio Jones, Chris Godwin, I like a lot. I haven't ranked as my wide receiver 6, mostly because of his versatility. I like him well ahead of Mike Evans, in fact, because while Mike Evans,

is absolutely a deep threat that has negatively affected his efficiency, even with the upgrading quarterback from Winston to Brady. But you're basically on Evans, to me, counting on touchdowns, right, because of that giant wingspan and red zone potential. But Godwin can do all the things. And when Gronk is in the picture, I have to imagine especially week one, they have got the Patriots, I'm sorry, the Bucks have the Saints. The Saints have that really amazing pass rush.

To me, that's a lot of Brady checking down to his, favorite most reliable option. So I think Grant could be a very big hero in September, early season hero. I imagine him catching a couple, maybe even two spikes, week one, as Brady is feeling that new sort of pressure. So I'm not sure, at least on the top of things. And obviously in fantasy, you want to win out of the gate early, Evans is going to be as reliable or really ROI on his top, you know, what is he?

I think he's second round draft potential. So those top 10 guys, up until Chris Godwin, I like him if you have the ability to swerve and you can, fine. But still, I'd much rather hammer the running back position and then wait until maybe even as late as round five to start loading up on wide receiver. Feels like so long, though. I mean, I was going to say, like, I like a higher. If you want to take a running back in the first four rounds, like three of those first four rounds. and if you're not going to settle on one of the elite tight ends like Kittle or Kelsey

so like if you're drafting out of the third or the fourth spot I really like taking Kittle or Kelsey for the advantage in the second round at the back of the second round but if you're drafting at the back of the first round I would prefer maybe waiting on and if you wanted a high floor receiver getting someone like Alan Robinson right

like he's going to see 130 plus looks again this year I like the volume we know his amazing talent I also I'm not so worried about Keenan Allen I feel like his ADP has slid tremendously because people are over-adjusting for the change in quarterback. But Allen is a talent, and talent breaks all the ties. He's an incredible runner. Mike Williams has this shoulder issue.

I think Keenan Allen in the fourth round is a really great wide receiver one as a stable wide receiver. And then you can start, again, loading up on the position with more higher upside guys like Calvin Ridley and all these lay. DJ Chark is wildly underval. Can we put some respect on DJ Charks? name like everyone's talking about Terry McClure and it's the same argument put a little respect

on his name I'm with you on like the depth there and I was always into you know when I when I did fantasy that it's like you draft players you don't draft positions right and it feels like especially this year where everyone's drafted running backs early I don't know the players just seem better at ride receiver like maybe you take one running back in the first round and then after that I just have a feeling like the value, especially in those middle rounds. I looked at those guys, you mentioned a couple of them. Thielen would be one, Adam Thielen, OBJ, Allen, Lockett, Alan Robinson, Sutton, Cup, like, A.J. Brown, those guys are all going to show up.

They're all going to show up. They're all going to produce. It's a passing league if you're playing PPR. It's like they're all going to put up points every single week, whereas most of these running backs are good in the first round, and then they're bad. Draft good players. Don't draft bad players. I mean.

So don't listen to me. Greg is the one who built Roto World Foot 5. I'm just saying receivers are so deep. I think we're pretty close to the same here. That basically there's so much value in all those guys from three, four, five, six, you know, in all those rounds that it just would be like hard to pass them up when you're looking at these like kind of trash running backs. Like who would you rather have in real life that's going to come through every week?

And that to me is part of it. The running backs really dry up after round four. I mean, are you going to stake your fantasy claim on like, J.K. Dobbins, because you hear he's blowing up in camp when Mark Ingram is like, all of a sudden, J.K. Dobbins, who's an incredible work. I like him coming out of the draft, or coming into the draft,

rather, ahead of D. Andre Swift. I love his skills. Also, a great past protector, which no one talks about. But do we really think that Ravens are going to shy away from Mark Ingram, something that worked so well last year, just because the rookie looks good right away? Yeah, you got to hit on some running back. You got to hit on some running back

late, but I like kind of the idea of taking guys that, you know, are going to be good. And I also like the idea of zigging where all the fantasy heads are zagging, you know? So if it's a year that everyone is taking running backs early, then you do the opposite. Doing the opposite is always a good draft strategy, I feel like. I want to ask you this, Liz, because, you know, this is a weird year and, you know, strange off season. And there may be casual players that are saying, I don't have time for fantasy this year, or it's not the top thing of my list. But let's say you dive in, you follow all this

draft advice. Everyone's always concerned about the draft. There's all this hype about it. And then obviously, like six of your players, you know, fade away with knee injuries and shoulders falling off their bodies. And then you got to, then you got to deal with the regular season roster management. How, what is your advice? Because there's all this draft advice. But when you're in week three, your team's falling apart, how do you, how much time do you need to spend? How would you approach that? You got kids at home, things are crazy. Like, and you got some body parts are falling off people's bodies. That's a concern. You got some, you got some super nerd in your league who's up at 322 like you know taking stuff off the waiver wire how do you do it in a weird

fantasy in a weird corona year well listen if you are a parent do not draft in a league without parents this year because they're going to have an immediate advantage on you so just adjust that i'm sorry if you don't have with everywhere else in life so yes yes never more has freedom and finance has been more pronounced than in 2020 for parents but why are your children like bound and gag in the video behind you. I just noticed them in the corner there. They're very well behaved. I would say, so yes, like this year,

especially when you're adding into potentially even players landing on the COVID list, right? You're going to have to work the waiver wire. This is a fact. I'm not going to try to, you know, sprinkle some pixie dust on this and say like, no, no, you're going to have to work more this year. But what I will say is, don't you want to do something?

Don't you want to distract yourself from all of the maudlin, macab-ish that's going on around you. I mean, I have become a Denver, I'm not sorry, I've become a Utah jazz fan. All of a sudden, I'm watching the Utah Jazz. You know why? Because it lets me escape. So if you want to work the waiver wire at 3 o'clock in the morning, instead of laying awake, staring at the ceiling, thinking about how the world is crumbling,

fantasy football is for you. Yeah. Wait, why the jazz? You just, are you from the area? I mean, that Mitchell kid, man, that Mitchell kid two nights ago, lit it up. and I like the orange uniforms, the whole thing. I know you guys have a Donjic thing, but, you know. No, no.

We're big in, our last producer was a Mormon, probably a big jazz fan. So it all, it all connects. I'm not Mormon at all. Why do you assume that Sydney was a huge Utah jazz fan? Because she's from Utah, you know. Oh, there's no, there's no huge evidence of that. From Salt Lakes, you know, who's from Utah. That's the one team you have.

You better root for them. Liz, let me, let me, let me, throw out some wide receivers that are going to give people pause and they're going to think, oh, he could be awesome or he could end up killing me coming off a bad year, injury-wise and quarterback-wise. Juju Smith-Schuster. Bounce back. I think Big Ben is healthy.

I did a series of articles called Rest versus Rust with the help of an orthopedic surgeon at USC. He's also the team. It's not a brag. It's a resume, baby. You're working. And so I think Big Ben's going to be healthy enough. Show their receipts. He'll be healthy enough.

I'm not worried about the elbow. I think Ben being back unlocks a lot of fantasy potential. I'm not worried about Juju. Also, Juju now is allowed to primarily perform in the slot, which he is best at doing, especially when you look at, you know, Deonti Thompson coming on and being able to hold it down on the outside. And so I think that gives Juju an opportunity to return to doing what he does well. I have him ranked inside my top 20. I think he bounces back.

All right. How about the Sessler's golden boy, O'Dell Beckham Jr. He is not my golden boy. I want to hear what you have to say here, though. So OBJ, I did a fearless forecast for him, a projection. It is tough because you cannot deny the talent, and yet he was not healthy last year. He reports to be healthy this year.

You know, I do think there is a bounce back there. I am going to believe, especially when you look at the way he played, dealing with that core surgery, that core malady, whatever. it was, hernia, sports hernia, I think he is going to be healthier. And if that is true, then he will be electric. I also think you're probably going to see some of that production come down because we know Stefansky loves to run the ball. Though as much as people talk about run friendly, run first offense, you also, like, this is still a passing league, right? So we know that there's still going to be points available. So I think he bounce back, but I think when you deal

with OBJ, you're dealing with variance, but that is baked into his current what, like, where is he going right now. Like late fourth round. He seems to me he'd be on my list if I know, you know, rank had the list of the guys that he absolutely loves league winner. I mean, OBJ would be near the top. I think fantasy don't get too complicated. You buy low, sell high. And this is like an unbelievable player who only would need to do what he did in his, you know, in a supposedly terrible year last year to live up to that draft billing anyways. Like, if you got a thousand yards and what he got and you drafted him there, you'd be fine with that. And there's a pretty solid chance. that he just, you know, rips the league apart because we've seen it happen before.

I would say real quick, they had no tight-in production last year. I think Austin Hooper is going to have a huge year there. He has been their best player in camp. And I think that's going to pull away from Landry and OBJ. How about the trio of rookies, Jerry Judy, Henry Rugg, C.D. Lamb. You can only take one. They're all there for you. I mean, I'm taking Brian Edwards, so it doesn't matter.

Give me Michael Pittman ahead of all those guys, too. Yeah, Brian Edwards is a stud. Nobody's talking enough about him. Over Jerry, Judy, both those guys? Yeah, how many? I mean, I appreciate that Elway is trying to write all of the previous wrongs with giving Drew Locke zero excuses this year and a million pass catchers. But like, what can we really predict his target volume?

We know Coralyn Sutton as good as what he does, but he's not particularly flashy. Noah Fantas in the picture. You got, there's just so much going on there that I'm not sure. that we're going to see enough volume from him as precise and as much of a technician as he may be. I just don't think for fantasy purposes, not real life football purposes. He's going to be impactful.

C.D. Lamb, amazing. But again, you know, you got Blake Jarwin Truthers chatting up his target volume. So there's like questions there too. Henry Ruggs, obviously, like, if we're looking at the Raiders, Ruggs is obviously meant to be the superstar of that receiving core, right?

but Brian Edwards is the Brandon Lafell-esque workman who can do the dirty work and let the dude on the other side of the field shine. That, to me, is the guy reports out the camp, by the way, he's heading up over, he's beaten Tyrell Williams. Williams has another malady, another injury that he's going to try to play through. That doesn't sound great. Derek Carr talking about how he is already gaining trust in Edwards. Gruden talking about fast-tracking rookies.

Like, to me, Brian Edwards is going to be the real fantasy story, not the flash. That's from the mermaid. That's from the prognosticating mermaid herself. She ain't got no feet, but she's got takes and her seats and all the other good stuff. All right, Liz, thank you for joining us. You're a marble. You're great at your job. You're a working mother, which I have endless respect for during this time of pandemic.

Thank you for everything. Before Liz gets out of here, you've got to tell the story of how we met. Oh, sure. All right. I mean, it's all very foggy. I have to admit. So we were flying home from the Super Bowl from Miami The day after the Super Bowl

Everybody is like haggard I don't I mean I barely am closed Like just dragging my body into the row And I sit down and I recognize this woman And my producer Jackie Pepper is sitting on the aisle seat She's like super free to play in since she needs the aisle And I'm like I'm home who had two kids I need to pee all the time but fine

So I sit down in the middle She remembers Jackie She remembers Jackie Pepper She's, she's, I'm sitting next to her and I'm like, oh, the woman is so familiar. She's so familiar to me. And then it clicks. And I'm like, are you Ricky Hollywood? And she's like, yeah.

And so we start chatting and I talk about, you know, I'm friends with Wes and how Mark Sessler had been on a podcast back when I had my own indie podcast, the X's and Y's podcast. And then I do think at one point, Jackie just keeps talking and Ricky is like talking and I feel like I'm going to pass out. And I just say, you guys, I'm done. Like, I need to close my eyes. Now, I don't want to talk anymore. And I slumped over and slept for the rest of the trip. Do that strategy works with Erica? Yeah, all three of us were in a tough, tough shape, that flight back.

If you want to see NFL reporters, media people at their very worst, look how they are on Monday morning after the Super Bowl. That's always a takeaway. All right, Liz, thank you so much for joining us. And again, follow Liz all season long for fantasy advice and life advice because she can give it out and she does it well. Thank you, Liz. Thank you. Thanks, Liz.

Uh-oh. We got more royalty. He is the man that helped build Roto World, Brick by Brick, with Rosenthal and West. And then he went out in his own with Leviton, establishing, established the run. which is now one of the great fantasy sites out there. He is the big fish. Evan Silva, welcome back to the podcast. This is like our fifth year in a row that we're doing this.

We are getting old. I feel myself getting older. And you're not as big anymore. It feels like you're your trim. You're in fighting shape. I know you're not happy that Matthew Berry's coming on after you, though. I'm going to get some sternly worded. I thought he was going to be opening for me.

I knew that would be an issue. That's on Erica. You can discuss with her. Thanks, Erica. Thanks, Ricky. All right. So, Silva, you are, you know, obviously you turn your body into a shrine, according to this video chat. But that has not stopped you from doing the work on the fantasy side of life.

And so much great stuff on Establish the Run could not recommend it enough. I'm a subscriber. So I know you initially hooked this up a little bit, but I have since subscribed and I'm paying you for your content. I just want you to know. I appreciate it. I appreciate that. Your money will be spent smartly. All right.

So you have a couple of pieces out. You have your sleeper is an undervalued column. You have bus out there. Let's start with the sleepers and undervalued, though. I mean, we can go in so many directions. You have guys that you absolutely love. But I do love where you start in your column at Will Fuller, because I thought you were maybe ever.

I don't want to get you angry. But maybe overvaluing him, it's not always pretty. Will Fuller, yes, the ceiling is high there with DeAndre Hopkins gone and his natural ability, which is vast. But the guy has always hurt. And I don't know if you put enough into that, which is his injury issues, which are kind of a big deal. I put plenty into it. And so does the entire fantasy community because. So I think I'm a big believer that in the rounds one through, let's say four,

that you should really be incorporating downside of the player into your draft evaluation of the player. And you should be thinking about, you know, risk, reward. Once you start to get into rounds five, six, seven, and Will Fuller's ADP is in the sixth and seventh round right now, I think you really start just hammering upside and you concern yourself less with injury floor. Last year, Alan Robinson, I thought, was it was in a very similar situation. He was the number one by across fantasy formats that established the run, whether it be redrafts in the wrong league, whether it be dynasty leagues. Humblebrack.

He'd be coming off a little bit of an injury-laden first season with Chicago the year before in Jacksonville. He didn't even play at all. He played like, what, two snaps and then tore his ACL. People were worried about his quarterback situation. We crushed on that. Will Fuller has replaced Alan Robinson as our number one buy across formats. I understand the injury risk, but that is baked into his average draft position.

We're pulling D'Andre Hopkins out of the Texans offense. He averaged 10 targets per game. That frees up 10 targets per game in an explosive passing offense, quarterbacked by Deshawn Watson. And one thing that I like to bet on in fantasy and have had a lot of success betting on over the years is established quarterback to pass catcher connections. Look at the rest of the Texans pass catcher core. Deshawn Watson really doesn't check down to RBs.

They don't have a target commander at tight end. Randall Cobb is new. We've got like 10 padded practices. Randall Cobb is new. Brandon Cooks is new. Kenny Stills missed the start of camp and, you know, he was up and he's going to be their fourth receiver, I think. Will Fuller is the only returning player who has a legitimate established

rapport with Deshawn Watson. And therefore, this year, he's a guy that I think we should all be betting on. Plus, those other guys have injury risks, too, which can open up the targets. I'm totally with that whole theory. It's a great thing for fantasy people to think about because I do think in the middle, late rounds, it's almost like injuries are a little overrated. Injuries don't kill you in fantasy. If you got 11 good games out of Will Fuller, that wouldn't kill you either.

Like, you can survive replacing them during some weeks. Obviously, you want it to be nicely timed up for the fantasy playoffs or whatever. But people in the NFL injuries kill you. In fantasy, you can live without three games of Will Fuller if he winds up being as good as Evan Silva says he is. It's not as if Will Fuller, like, if he's going to miss a few games, you're going to take zeros in those weeks. You're going to be starting another player. You know, that's why we have, you know, benches in fantasy football. I think that a lot of people think that fantasy football is a race to try to compile as many 16 game players as possible or avoid risk as much as possible.

It's really a game where you want to have. have guys who have spike weak potentials to make up for guys that have duds in certain weeks so that, you know, you can be winning as many weeks as possible. We're trying to win weeks in fantasy football. I got a little two-part question for you. First of all, I mean, I look at the Dallas wide receiver crew, and I know you mentioned Michael Gallup in your article, too. How do you kind of stack that and value that group? And secondly, let's just say, and I'm back in the scene here. I'm playing fantasy this year for the first time in, you know, almost a decade or so. Well, you're playing too? Wait, I literally asked you 20 minutes before the show if you were

playing fantasy and you were like, I'm not sure. This show has changed my mind. And, you know, I'm learning a lot on the fly here. But let's say there was a two-team league where it was Evan Silva versus me. How does that go? And so we got the Dallas question. And I want to know what happens one-on-one, huge showdown, Silva-Sessler, Fantasy World. Let's focus on the first part of the question. Go ahead. I have never played in the two-team league, and I can't even I mean, this is such a classic Cessler question, because I feel like there is

some intelligence behind it, but I just don't understand what you're saying at all. Let's cut that. That's a nice drop. This is an ongoing theme of anytime Silva and Cessler have an interaction. Evan almost has no idea at any time

what Mark is talking about. It's real. But, I mean, if you want to talk about Michael Gallup, Let's talk about Michael Gowler. I don't think people understand. He was number six in the NFL and receiving yards per game last year. He missed two games.

If you just plug in his two playoff games from the year prior, and we just look at his last 16 games, period, he has 74 catches for 1,244 yards, and seven touchdowns. That would have made him 2019's number seven overall, number seven overall wide receiver in PPR leagues. He is being drafted as the wide receiver 31 in high-stakes ADP. High-stakes ADP is supposed to be sharp. We have him as the wide receiver 25.

I just like betting on the Dallas offense in general this year. I love the continuity that they have. They're returning four or five offensive line starters. I like the approach that Mike McCarthy has taken in just sort of leaving the offense to Kellynne Moore. They played faster under Kellynne Moore. They threw the ball more aggressively under Kellynne Moore. they have a really soft schedule this year. Reminds me of that year, what was it, 2017 when they went, what, 13 and 3 or 12 and 4 or whatever?

And they, you know, they exploded on offense. That was with DAC as a rookie. Now, Dak is in, what, his fourth year. And, I mean, I think that this offense is, they're going to score a ton of touchdowns this year. So I think that I mean, Marry Cooper is undervalued and Michael Gallup is undervalued. And I think they're going to be really, they're pulling out Randall Cobb and Jason Witt, and upping Blake Jarwin's usage, they're inserting CD Lamb for Randall Cobb.

They're going to score a lot of... About the leg. Well, by the way, Silva, maybe you don't realize it, but you just did answer the first part of Seltzler's question. He was just trying to figure how do you shake out and make sense of the targets in Dallas? I thought we worked in concert there together very well. Yeah, that was wonderful.

I think the two-teen league, Silva would write the floor with you. I mean, is that what you're looking for? I don't know. I'm not asking what you think would happen. I was asking what Evan. I know you would pick Evan and most thinking people would. But, you know, do you want like an independent take on this? I feel like it would be a coin flip.

A two-team league, both teams would be so absurdly stacked that it really doesn't matter the level of the players. I don't know. Maybe I'm crazy. No, no, you're right. I root for a team that's terrible and depressing all the time. You would probably come down to, like, injury luck, you know. Yes, as it always does. So on your sleeper list, as bad as the Jets look on paper right now

and as bad as they looked in their scrimmage today over in Flore and Park, you have three players to you that stand out, Chris Herndon, the tight end, which a lot of people are talking about Herndon is a guy that bounces back strong after a lost 2019, but also Jameson Crowder is someone that jumps out to you as well, as well as Breschard Perryman, who came over from Tampa. Your thoughts on the Jets, who are a depressed value, assume in this world.

It's admittedly concerning to have three of the undervalued slash sleepers, you know, they're only 15 of them. So that's taken up with like 15, 20% of the list here on jets. And that is scary, especially considering the history of skill position players

being suffocated under Adam Gase and then all of a sudden exploding when they go to new opportunities. Fearless by you. It's fearless by you, Silva, ultimately. But I think that these players are being undervalued because they are part of the Jets.

I think the Jets are going to be playing from behind frequently this year. They just lost their best two defenders. They traded away Jamal Adams. They lost C.J. Mosley to an opt-out. I think they're going to struggle on defense a lot more than they did last year. The personnel just isn't going to be as good. Chris Herndon had an all-time rookie year, especially for, what, a fifth round tight end?

He had over 500 yards, which, I mean, over the previous decade, he had the 10th most yards of any rookie tight end. I mean, he can play. His problem last year was he had the suspension and then he was injured. He's my favorite late round tight end this year. I think he's going to get a chance at like 100 to 110 targets. Again, going back to the established rapport between quarterbacks and pass catchers, Jameson Crowder has

you know locked in I mean 122 targets last year dominated the targets from Sam Darnold. You look at what they did on the outside. They changed out their both of their perimeter receivers. Denzel Mims can't get on the field. Breshaunt Perryman

is now hurt. Breshide Perryman is also on the list. The list was made before he got hurt. But like I think Bresad Perryman is good. I think he's always been good. If you go back and look at the history of Brashad Perryman. He has had horrible luck.

Like his dad got sick. You know, Brett Perryman and excellent receiver in the NFL for a long time with the Lions. His dad got sick. And that really, he fell into a depression. He struggled with like shin splints early in his career with the Ravens and a PCL injury that he just is a brutal injury for a wide receiver. The hairline was a lot to overcome.

He was struggling with that for a wide. He did not overcome that. And then he got a shot in Cleveland and he got some opportunities and he really, really flashed. That was good. And one of the big things that he got knocked for early in his career

was drop passes. Over the past two seasons with the Browns and the Bucks, he's got 94 targets, one drop. And then if you look at what he did over the final five games of last year with Tampa Bay, when he got an abundance of opportunity because Chris Godwin and Mike Evans were both a little banged up at the end of the season,

he had 87 plus yards and or a touchdown in each of the five games to finish last year. I think Rashad Perryman can play. But this knee swelling, again, he had the PCL injury a couple years ago, is a little bit scary. So I would be a little bit less bullish on him after knowing of that. Do you have an Ernest Wilford this year? You know, just the guy that Silva's banging the drum for it so much that like the other people had established the run are almost talking about it. Or maybe, I don't know if this is Levitan's role. Does Levitan ever step in and like, are you sure you want to draw, you know, put Wilford in the top 20?

Because you're representing not just yourself, but our money. Like our money is tied together. You are business partners. This is a private business, you know, brand. This is not in corporate. Right, right. And because, you know, we used to get into it sometimes. Wilford stands out to me, you know, you're making Wilford above Marvin Harrison.

in the middle of Harris. There were a lot of times where I had to sign off A.L. Instant Messenger because I was going to say something bad, you know, and, like, get myself fired. So is there a player this year that you guys, that you guys are clashing on? I would say it's probably Rob Gruncowski. First of all, Adam Levittan is a major ageist, and he lowered the bar on who is old. So far, he's starting to creep into, like, the late 20s. That means you're old now.

Well, Greg's body is old in his defense. It's bad news for us. 31 in May. Like, literally just turned 31. But, I mean, look, everyone would admit that in 2018, Rob Grancowski looked like a big transformer robot who, you know, couldn't move at all. Pre-workout Silva, pre-boxing.

Right, right. So, I mean, at the end of the day, Rob Gruncowski, I think it's going to come down just a lot to touchdowns. I think he could score a lot of touchdowns. That's not always the best way to project. and approach fantasy, but he's sort of in this tier with guys like Jared Cook and Austin Hooper and I think he's going to score more touchdowns than those guys. So that's kind of why he's being considered there.

All right. Let's swing negative now. Let's get into some bus. Who are some of the guys that are really on Silva's list of guys, keep them away from my team because I got a bad vibe? well a lot of people aren't going to like to hear this and i know that rosenthal isn't going to like to hear this because i know that he loves josh jacobs but josh jacobs is worrisome and look i i think that jose jacobs like maybe already is a top

five straight ball carrier rusher in the nfl like in terms of a rushing talent but in his first year he averaged 2.1 targets per game that's not enough he had 20 catches in 13 games he only they ran seven more pass routes than Jalen Richard, who the Raiders went and then re-signed. That was like one of their first moves of the offseason. A lot of money. A lot of money for Taylor-Rashard. Two years, seven million.

That's a decent amount of money for a running back in this day and age. They drafted Lynn Bowden, who played primarily wide receiver. He played some Wildcat quarterback at Kentucky's, sort of like a Randall Cobb player, but they announced him as a running back on draft day. And then Mayock after the draft was like, we're playing this dude at running back. and he's a pass catcher. And then they went and signed Devante Booker and Theo Riddick, and those guys might not even make the team,

but it's like indications that they're not going to give Josh Jacobs more receiving work. And I'm really worried about the Raiders playing from behind a lot this year. I think they're not a good team. I know they went seven and nine. They won a bunch of close games last year. They really fell off at the end. They were bottom five in point differential. They have a bottom five strength of schedule according to,

according to Warren Sharpe's, you know, Vegas win totals-based SOS. And, I mean, you want me, I'm just going to read off their schedule after week one. So in week one, they face the Panthers. And, I mean, we're going to be playing Josh Jacobs and DFS.F.S. Because we're not going to get to play him for very long after that. Week two, facing the Saints, maybe the most talented team in the NFL. Week three at New England. Good luck.

Week four against the bills. I think the bills might win 11, 12 games this year. Week 5 against the Chiefs, good luck. Week 6 against the Buccaneers. They have a 9-and-a-half game win total. They have a lot of talent. They're going to be well-coached. Good luck.

At the Browns, I think the Browns are going to be improved. At the Chargers, Chargers are going to have a really good defense, really talented on defense. Then against the Broncos, Broncos are going to have a good defense. And then against the Chiefs, again, they're going to be from behind a lot. And it might be Jailum or shard. or Devante Booker and or Theoretic out there quite a bit. I forgot how much you hated the Raiders. I think that's even survived this new regime change.

You just killing the Raiders on Twitter. Just generally. Just generally. Do you mean how much I've been right about the Raiders? Do you mean how much I've been right about the Raiders? That's fair. Feating the Raiders has paid off for a long time. Their offense was good last year, though.

Their offense overachieved. The offense was, I'm sure, better than you projected last year by a good deal, right? I mean, there was a pretty good offense. Their offensive line was better than I expected. It came together well. I mean, that was the first offense, good offensive line that Tom Cable has coached in like three decades. Nailing Raiders failures kept the lights on at Silver Manor for years. Evan, I got one for you.

So I know quarterbacks are totally devalued in this process at this point. But is there a quarterback out there that everyone is sort of hot on and you're just thinking, has anyone ever watched football? No on this guy. Well, I would say that it's probably Aaron Rogers, and I wouldn't say that it's that people are super hot on him, but he still goes well above where he should in drafts because of big name value.

The Packers just have not set him up to succeed. They're not, I mean, let's just look at their draft. They drafted his replacement, traded up for his replacement in the first round. In the second round, they drafted a big bulldozing running back. In the third round, they drafted, you know, a guy that they are hoping becomes Kyle Eusecheck. Their number two receiver is Alan Lazard, who I do think he could overachieve in fantasy. And Devante Adams is obviously a stud, but, I mean, they're throwing darts at Robert Tanya and Jay Sternberg are at tight end. And, you know, they want to be a run first team.

And he's just not built up, he's not built for fantasy success. The Packers may be good again, but he is not built to be a productive. fantasy quarterback this year. I know Silva doesn't really like respect my fantasy acumen anymore. And that hurts. Here we go. He's said it actually. No, no, we've gone back and forth on Twitter.

I'm, I'm past my prime, stay in my lane as if football and fantasy football are so different. Who could somehow figure out the difference. But I, but I'm trying to get bit, I'm feeling, I'm feeling weak here and I'm trying to get back on his good side. So I hit him up the other day because we do agree on a player that people seem to love that I don't. And they're going to love them even more, Tariq Cohen, after this David Montgomery injury on Wednesday. So I'm guessing even with Montgomery is sort of sidelined here, Silva is not jumping on the Tariq Cohen bandwagon. Man, I don't know.

When this happened, I was like, this is going to let the Tariq Cohen truthers off the hook. you know, it's going to bail them out. I have to move them up. I'm going to have to move them up. I'm going to have to be. Probably still less than within other people have them. I mean, if you look at right now, his backfield competition, it's Ryan Null, who being a big-time pre-season DFS player, RIP and Peace, pre-season DFS. Like, you sort of have to.

I know, because there's money to be made in the preseason. That's kind of the sneaky best part to go do it. into playing Ryan Nall. You know he's going to be 18 paris in a preseason game, but you have to almost talk yourself in it because if you watch him play, he's like, he's like the biggest plotter you've ever seen, you know? That's the other, that's the next time.

It's confusing him and Craig Nall. Do you remember Craig Nall? Is there any relation? Of course, man. Of course. I mean, don't you think the Tariq Cohen thing would have happened by now if it was going to happen? Right.

I'm with you. I'm with you. Give us one more before we say goodbye, Evan. All of a sudden it starts, you know, getting 10 carries and seven targets a game. Like, it doesn't matter if he's not very good. You know, he's going to be good at the end. Just one more bust before we say goodbye. One more bust.

Okay. DeAndre Hopkins. Oh, I like it. He goes for big fishes. Interesting. Oh, we really look down. Consensus ADP right now is a top five wide receiver. We have him at wide receiver 15.

And I think that, first of all, you have a, like, if you look back at the history of wide receivers that change teams during the off-season, it usually takes like a year for them to really grow into the offense. The perfect example last year was O'Dowell Beckham. DeAndre Hopkins has, and a big reason for that is because the quarterback and the receiver have to get on the same page, right? Has there ever been a worse offseason for a quarterback and a receiver to get on the same page than this one? No. over the past five seasons, DeAndre Hopkins averaged 166 targets per game, 166. His primary competition for targets during those years was Will Fuller, who we like, but we also know was very often injured in a complementary role player.

Now he's going to Arizona where he's got to deal with Larry Fitzgerald, Christian Kirk, Kenyon Drake was on pace for 60 catches in his eight games with the Cardinals last year. And if you go back and look at the philosophy of Cliff Kingsbury, of Mike Leach, of this air raid attack. And I, you know, I try to post – there's this video of Mike Leach talking about this, and I try to post it every year talking about what to Mike Leach is balance on offense. He says a lot of coaches will say it's 50% run, 50% pass, and he says, that's 50% bullshit. It's equal distribution. of the ball to your playmakers.

Of course, guys that are more talented are going to get the ball a little bit more than the fifth most, the fifth most talented playmaker on the offense. But it's, you know, distribution, it's not, you know, trying to establish the run. It is trying to distribute the ball to the playmakers to make your offense truly balanced.

And I think that we're not going to see 166 target year out of DeAndre Hopkins. I think it's going to be more in the range of 130. And he's already missing time with a hamstring injury at Cardinals camp. Swing your sword, baby. Great book. Mike Leach. I agree with Silva too much.

I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't either. I'm totally on board with that one. Well, he is the big fish. We reeled them in for another year. And you know what? It's so good of you to come on and help us out in this territory.

No, Wes. It would have been nice to hear you mix it up with Wes a little bit. but, you know, Rosenthal, I was hoping you guys would start really taking verbal swings at each other. Didn't happen as much this year. But maybe next year, something to look forward to. Thanks so, so much, guys for having me. And, yo, Wesleyan, if you're listening to this, man, I think about you every day. And thanks again, guys, for having me on.

So, those saves, like, the really nasty stuff for texts. Just like at one in the morning, be like, I remember what you said back in 2010. All right. We've come to our final guest of the Around the NFL podcast extravaganza in the fantasy realm. And it is one of the greats the industry has ever seen. Matthew Barry of ESPN. Thank you for joining us on the show. My pleasure, guys. Thanks for having me.

I don't think I've, I don't think we've ever done something with you, Barry, even though we cross past. and we've kept in touch over the years at Rotow World for about two weeks. It was very, it wasn't very long. You were, you were embroiled in a feud with upper management ownership. But it's way back in 2003, when there just weren't many like full-time jobs or people trying to make them into jobs in fantasy. Yeah, I was embroiled into a dispute with them because they had, I had worked for them for free for a long time, and eventually I'd worked my way up to making 50 bucks a column, and I was writing two columns a week, and I was making $100 a week, I was making

$100 a week or, you know, or I guess $400 a month. And they came to me and they said, after four and a half years, they said, you know, hey, we're having some issues financially. This is before NBC bought them. We're having some issues financially, and we'd like to, cut your pay to $100 a month and that will solve things and then I said wait what and they go oh well listen

no no you're like our highest red writer like you're the everyone else is getting zero we're actually you know they thought there was a big thing that they were still going to pay me a hundred bucks a month and I was just like and I was just like wait a minute so after four and a half years of writing for you guys

you want to cut my pay by 300% and they go well when you say it that way it sounds bad I'm like because it is they were definitely like there was definitely a point maybe like a Christmas later when they were paying people with credit cards to try to get through the year

and you had kind of taken off that I think there was kind of we might have blown that one with Barry maybe that was a bad movie this is the clip we're going to use for social by the way just to let you know so this will be hot in about an hour hour. Your love and hate column is obviously one of the most popular and most red fantasy columns out

there. And I thought it was something interesting that you said that Silva said earlier, actually, that you see a big advantage. And this year with no preseason and just 14 padded practice, you love the proven guys who are returning to a familiar setup with a familiar system, coaching, personnel. In this strange year of Corona, that seems a special. important when you're putting together a team, doesn't it? It does to me. Look, there's going to be so much that's unknown and untested and we've never seen before in this upcoming season.

So let's try to at least narrow down and get rid of the variables that we can. And so, you know, look, it doesn't mean that you're going to go crazy here. But for me, for example, like I have the Andre Hopkins at five. The Andre Hopkins is one of my favorite players in the NFL and obviously one of the best in the entire league. But when you have to nitpick at that elite level, give me Michael Thomas, Sean Payton and Drew Brees, right? Give me Devante Adams with Matt LaFleur and Aaron Rogers.

Give me Julio with Matt Ryan, you know, and Dirk Cutter. Give me Tyree Kill with Pat Mahomes and Andy Reid. Give me those guys ahead of Hopkins, who's going to, obviously, a new quarterback and a new system, you know, and isn't going to have the time to develop the chemistry with Kyla Murray that the four guys I just mentioned already have and have had for years. I thought it was interesting where you put Miles Sanders in the non- not love, but the hate category. I'd love to hear about that.

I'm also still kind of awestruck by the fact that you were in Avengers. But we'll deal with that another time. We can start with Miles Sanders here. I appreciate that. Although I'd be more than happy to talk about Avengers Endgame because, you know, like, you're never sick of talking about that. All right. Well, because here's the thing, guys.

I'll just say this really quickly because it's important for me to say and just get this message out as much as they can. I've been in only one movie in my life. Avengers Endgame. I've only been in one movie. I'm one movie. I'm in a one movie. I'm in a scene, right? I have four lines. I'm a cast member. I'm in the credits.

I'm in IMDB with it. I'm a legit cast member of Avengers End Game. You got residual check coming in on? A residual check. It was very generous. Better than Roto World. Yeah, it's better than Roto World, even at the high cotton days of Roto World. And the point is, is that Avengers So I've been in one movie.

I'm a one movie actor. And that movie, Avengers Endgame, is the highest grossing movie worldwide all time. More money than any movie ever in the history of cinema worldwide. And so... Connect the dots. On a per movie basis, I'm the highest grossing actor of all time.

I mean, there are other actors out there that have more cumulative box office. Yeah? On a per movie basis, like, everyone's looking up at me. I just... It's weird that your phone isn't ringing more for a movie, too. Or maybe you're just selective. You're waiting for the next one that could top of it. Correct.

100% being my... I mean, I thought it was impressive, Matthew, that you wrote one of the Crocodile Dundee sequels. But this one, this fact toy, just blows that one out of the water. Mike, I just imagine someone who has no knowledge of anything. And they come on and they read my IMDB page, which is, I think I have like a couple of different profiles there.

But it's such a mess. Like, wait a minute. So this guy wrote Croc 3. He was in Avengers End game, and he's a fake football guy for ESPN, and, you know, he was also on One Life to Live, because I did a two-day thing on One Life to Live as a, you know, as a synergy kind of thing.

And, like, right, I had just the weirdest, I have the weirdest list of credits. I have a really weird resume, and I have a really, you know, probably the most insane IMDB page that makes no sense whatsoever. Because I was also a Hollywood writer, So I have these writing credits of, like, shows that some people have never heard of. And anyway, so, yeah, I've had a very weird path in a truly blessed career.

All right. So, Miles Sanders. Let's get to actual football here. Miles Sanders. So I want to clarify something here for your listeners that may not be aware of what love hate is. I don't hate the player. I hate the ADP. So Love Hate is entirely about ESPN ADP.

And I'll get in a plug to play ESPN. dot-com fantasy pool. Download on your app for free. Got to do that. You're not going to get as many plugs as Adam ranked it earlier, so it'll be fine. I'm sure I won't. I'm sure I won't.

And you had Marcus on too, right? So like you're doubling up the NFL guys, right? So anyway. And I'm sure Evan was plugging his side as well, you know, left and right. So believe me. But, you know, I'll listen. If anyone's calling me at all, I'll give him a run for his money in terms of plugs. but the great fantasy game over at ESPN.com.

All right. So Miles Sanders, don't hate the player. Great player, right? Or what I have a problem with is is ADP. He's currently going as running back 9 on ESPN.com, and I've seen him go as high as running back 7. And you think, and it's all based on two things. Number one, it's based on last year.

There was a five-game stretch, at which point he was the guy. weeks like whatever 11 to 16 i'm sorry weeks 12 to 16 he was awesome 21 touches a game 11 17 yards from scrimmage over 21 fantasy points per game and ppr top five fantasy running back i get it he was awesome he was also all they had like the eagles back then were so banged up that their starting wide receiver was former a af san antonio commander superstar greg ward you that's who they were rolling out there. I don't even know if he was a superstar for them. Right. Yeah. He was very, it was not contributing to the commanders. Anyway, the fact is, like, they just, they didn't have anyone, right?

I mean, so everyone, like, talked about how Miles Sanders was like this amazing guy coming out of college, you know, better than Barclay at Penn State and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but the fact is, is that he couldn't beat out Jordan Howard. Before Jordan Howard got, before Jordan Howard was injured, Miles Sanders is getting 11 touches a game. Okay? And by the way, Boston Scott, from weeks 14 on, was the seventh best running back in fantasy last year. Again, also A, showing that they didn't have anyone. But also, also because, so you're basing it on a situation that I don't think is

likely to repeat this year. I believe the Eagles will have many more skill players healthy than they did when Miles Sanders had all sorts of run. And you're basically, where he's being drafted, you're drafting him an RB7. You're drafting him at the end of the first round, top of the second. And you're doing that off of five games. Like, it's a small sample size, right? And so, I mean, like, my argument is, is like, well, listen, if we're going off of small sample sizes, why isn't Austin Echler going higher?

Austin Echler, for the four games that Melvin Gordon wasn't there, like he will be this year in Los Angeles, was the second best running back in fantasy. He was only five points worse than Christian McCaffrey over the first four games. but we're all ignoring Austin Echler. I like that. Need a little Echler, buzz. I like that. Because of Tyrod Taylor, what?

Like, you're telling me that Anthony Lynn, former NFL running back, Anthony Lynn, is suddenly going to go pass happy with Tyrod Taylor. You suddenly think Justin Jackson and Joshua Kelly are more of a threat

to Echler's playing time than Melvin Gordon was last year. By the way, once Melvin Gordon came back, from the time Melvin Gordon came back in week five until the end of the year, Austin Echler was the fifth best running back in fantasy. were produced, even when Melvin Gordon there.

Okay, fine. So now you talk about, like, well, people are like, Doug Peterson's never had a guy like Miles Sanders. Okay, maybe. Okay, maybe, but last year, that's what everyone was saying about Bruce Ariens and O.J. Howard. Bruce Arons doesn't use a tight-in. Oh, well, yes, but he's never had a tight-in like O.J. Howard.

How'd that work out? Like, here's a thing. I'm just going off of what we've seen so far. I hear you. Sanders may be the most talented running back that Doug Peterson has ever. ever had. But Doug Peterson has been the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles for 64 regular

season games. Nine times, literally nine times in those 64 games, has a single running back gotten more than 20 touches in a game. They've been winning those games, too. That's not a good sign. Doug Peterson is a former NFL quarterback, right, who came up under Andy Reid. Like, what does Doug Peterson want to do? He wants to throw.

He's going to throw. And I get it, Miles Sanders is going to be involved in the passing game. And people aren't worried about Boston Scott or Corey Clement. And they, you know, they haven't signed anyone even though they kicked the tires on Devante Freeman and Lishon McCoy and Carlos Hyde. And, you know, they were rumored to be in on some of these veterans that went elsewhere or in the case of Freeman are still on the street. But I guess, I don't know.

For me, it's just really risky to draft a guy that high that we've seen literally five games of elite production from in a situation that I don't think. is likely to repeat this year, which is that every other skill player they have is injured, except for like Zach Ertz, who's also still banged up during that time frame. That's my, that's my, Miles Sanders is an RB2 this year, not an RB1 where he's being drafted argument. I still have him as a top 20 guy. I still think he's a top 15 guy. I still think he's good. Is it running for running back 14 for me? But the idea that he's a top seven running back is crazy to me. Let's stay in the running back category because I love your David Johnson theory.

I love it. I mean, I didn't think of it that way. And now I can't stop thinking about it. Because what Matthew's saying is that the nature of David Johnson's circumstances of how he got to Houston will inform how he's used with the Texans. That avalanche of criticism around the D'Andre Hopkins trade can lead to a significant production bump in year one with the Texans. Because in part, Bill O'Brien, the head coach GM, doesn't want to look bad. I mean, Matthew, that to me. me is something that holds water and you have a past example i'd like you to share of how that

worked with another team in the not so recent past at running back this is something that i think gets overlooked a lot in fantasy football analysis is that football players are humans head coaches general managers everyone around a football team is a human being with emotions with egos with you know with the faults like all of us right and the other piece of it is is that an NFL team is like many other organizations, there are internal politics. And so that is why sometimes you're like, why doesn't that guy get the run when that veteran, like, you know, sometimes it's just like players run rub coaches the wrong way. One of the reasons why Frank Gore has lasted as long as he has, people love Frank Gore. By all accounts, Frank Gore is like the best teammate of all time.

like they just love him so anyway my to answer your question you think about the new york giants and sayquan barclay they got so much criticism dave getleman got so much criticism for passing on sam darnal or passing on any sort of quarterback and taking saiquan at two overall they needed saiquan to work and i remember i had sequin as a top five player overall that year and people were talking like you're crazy he's a rookie running back that offense be awful that offensive line is one of the worst in the NFL, like, they're going to be so down, blah, blah, blah, blah. Saquan obviously had a monster rookie season, fantasy-wise, and it's because they were like, if nothing else goes right, Saigon's going to work.

We're going to make Seacon a star. It obviously helps that he's insanely talented, he's, you know, one of the best running backs in the NFL. But even on a bad team, bad quarterback, a struggling offensive line, they figured out ways to make Saquan Barkley a star. And so to that point, yes, David Johnson, like, when you think about, what the Texans did. The Texans had a thousand-yard rush in Carlos Hyde last year. They got production out of Duke Johnson

and they had one of the best wide receivers in the game in DeAndre Hopkins. And they not only traded DeAndre Hopkins to Arizona, for David Johnson, but they took on his contract. That's crazy. You can't even argue that, well, it was a salary dump. Like, we know Hopkins wants a new deal and we don't want to play them. And so, like, they took on David Johnson's contract. So, yes, Bill O'Brien, here's all the criticism.

You trade a guy like DeAndre Hopkins, who is beloved in the community, who obviously is a fan favorite. David Johnson needs to work. He's not going to win any efficiency awards, but I think he is going to get as much volume as any running back in the NFL this year because they need to work. And by the way, just for whatever it's worth, this is very loosey-goosey math, but it's illustrative, Duke Johnson and Carlos Hyde last year, two running backs that I don't think are as good as David Johnson, combined last year, if you combine their production, that player would have been the

fifth best player, fifth best running back in fantasy. Now, I'm not saying David Johnson's going to be the fifth best running back in fantasy, but I think he gets the, I think he gets all the Carlos Hyde role, and I think he gets a good chunk of the Duke Johnson role. And they got to be a good player, though. Got to be a good player. I'm not sure he's good at football. And at some point, that's going to show up. I love a little Duke Johnson at the end of my draft. I do want to bring up one last guy because I know you're a Washington football team fan, and that's tough. There aren't many out there.

There aren't that many that are kind of like public. For many reasons, today especially, yes, sir. Yes, yes. And I know you probably haven't had many that you've got to put on your love hate. I can't imagine over the years from Washington, maybe a little early Clinton Portis. Who knows? But Terry McLaurin, I think, is kind of getting slept on a little. bit as just a pure talent and what you know when what you think he could be like there in terms of

I mean you just talked about feeding David Johnson the ball how much are they going to feed Terry McLaur in the ball yeah I mean I think a ton right I always say this fantasy success is pretty easy to determine I think it's a it's talent and opportunity right so to your point about David Johnson I think massive opportunity we can argue about the talent but he's going to have a massive opportunity. Terry McLaurin, I think we all agree, both talent and opportunity. I talked to a lot of the Washington coaching staff at the Combine, and, you know, they're bringing over the Carolina offense, in essence, right?

Scott Turner, who was quarterbacks and then offense coordinator for Carolina, Norv Turner's son. He's the new offense coordinator of Washington. And the conversation was all about that they want Terry McLaurin to be the DJ Moore in that offense. Remember, Carolina Panthers were sent pass attempts last. year. Now, some of that was their defense, which was brutal, and they got in these shootouts, and they got down big. But make no mistake, like, Scott Turner, son of Norv, is going to throw. Like, they're going to throw, and so who are they throwing to? Well, they're throwing to

Terry McScoran, which I'm trying to float out their name. I don't love this F1. I don't, I don't love F1. I'm just saying, DJ Moore got 135 targets last year, right, in Carolina, and had more competition for targets than I think McLaurin does this year in Washington. And so, and I think the Reds get, I think, I think Washington's team, Washington defense will be better than Carolina's was last year. I actually don't think they'll be terrible. I think they'll be kind of middle of the pack. I think they have a pretty good line. But still, here's a guy, get this.

Last year, Tara McLaurin, 12th or better among wide receivers and catch percentage above expectation, yards for target, end zone targets. and by the way, that was in an offense last year. Right. Declan Hyde offense, right? It was pass Happy Under Jay Gruden, then they fire him, and then Bill Callahan takes over, and then they were going to go back to run first, and we're going to establish the run.

There you go. There's a plug for Evan Silva. We're going to, I mean, literally, like, that was, like, that's what they were going to do, and different quarterbacks are in and out, and, you know, Haskins is thrown behind a brutal offensive line, and it's just, it's a mess. And so I'm a Dwayne Haskins believer.

I don't believe you throw 50 touchdowns at Ohio State and then suddenly forget how to play football. I think it was an awful situation and an awful franchise in transition last year that he was thrown into. And I think at least they're trying to take, you know, at least on the football field, under Ron Rivera, it's going to be a much more buttoned up organization.

And I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet on Dwayne Haskins. And certainly I expect him to look early and often for his former college roommate, or teammate, I should say, not roommate, but teammate. Before we say goodbye, Matthew, and thank you again for joining us. Just wanted to ask your take on, Erica, can you play the sound clip? Who else got to there? Garden Minchew beer commercial, where your name is cited.

Did they have to get clearance for you to use that? They did not. And I was like, it's so funny because his agent texted me like an hour before that commercial came out. Just heads up, Gardner name drops you. And I'm like, oh, nice. what's he do? He's like, well, he's not happy with his ranking. And I'm like, by the way, by the way, like,

on ESPN, Gardner, Minchin is QV-27. I'm his QB-20. You mentioned my partner, he's literally in my love list. Like, I have him, I have him as my QB sleeper, and our sleepers and bus column. He's in my love. You shouldn't be on his hate list based on this. I'm actually giving love to Gardner Minchew.

I think Gardner Minchew has a really nice fantasy season here, guys. He wants to be at first round. pick i mean it's not like you love him that much i'm not yes i'm not i'm not i don't think he's a first-round pick and i don't think he's uh i don't think it's worth a case of beer for me to make it it's a good pop you though you're getting some good pop this is good publicity i love it i retweeted the i retweeted that video and said qb one i thought it was really funny um and in fairness it's a pretty good question who the hell is matthew barry it's a it's a existential question i have all the time and i would just say

say my final thought and it's unsolicited advice for you is, you know, litigation with Anaheiser Bush about character defamation, maybe ends up being a nice path for you to set up your retirement. You back some of that roto world money. Yeah, exactly. If there's any lawyers out there listening, yeah, hit me up if you think we got a case. But legit, since this is a fantasy football podcast and I took up a minute and a half with Avengers talk, I will say that I actually think Gardner Minshu is a really nice fantasy sleeper. Like, again, same thing. There's two things.

Here's a thing, you know, we were talking about sort of politics of a team and like with the David Johnson's sake one thing. Here's another thing. I don't think people understand. So Gardner Minchu last year, you know, he was a late round draft pick. He's just trying to find the field. Nick Foles gets signed to that big deal. All of a sudden, Minchu's in there.

Like, he's still trying to figure out where he puts his helmet, like when he comes in practice. But there's difference, right? There's a difference. You know, same thing with Daniel Jones. is a big sleeper for me. Like last year he had to come in. He's just like, oh, Eli, it's this living legend, blah, blah, blah. I just got to stand in the back of the locker room and try not to make noise.

There's a different mindset that now you've come into this year, the Jags have gotten rid of Mick Foles. It is Gardner Minchew's team. And a brand new offense coordinator, Jay Gruden, what does Jay like to do? He likes to throw. New quarterback coach, Ben McAdoo. What does Ben like to do? Ben likes to throw. And now you bring in Gardner Minshu for a team that we know is rebuilding that's going to have a bad... Sound down, Mark. that's going to have a, they're going to have a bad defense.

And think about what Jay Gruden has done in his career. If you think about his time as the offense grader of the Bengals or is the head coach of Washington, it's been eight full seasons. Forget 2019 when he got fired five games in. There's been eight full seasons. Three of those seasons I'm going to throw out. First year, which is Andy Dalton's rookie year, throw that out. His first year in Washington, which was the RG3, got her ear and Kirk Cousins,

and there was back and forth, and he had to start Colt McCoy for a couple games. So we had three different quarterbacks that year. And then 2018, which was then he had, that was the, he had four quarterbacks that year. That was the, Alex Smith got injured year. That was the, he had played Colt McCoy, my current colleague, Mark Sanchez, and AAAF superstar Josh Johnson. He had four quarterbacks that year. So I think it's fair to throw those three years out. Every other year that Jay Gruden has been an offense trainer or a head coach in the NFL, he's had a top 13 fantasy quarterback.

those years I just talked about the five years that I just talked about Andy Dalton and Kirk Cuth were all top 13 all those years and now he's got Gardner Minchu on a bad team they've got some nice talent I think DJ Shark is the real deal you're hearing great buzz about Levexa like I'm not a they got Chris Thompson out of the backfield you know D.D. Westbrook I think that that is I think Gardner Minshu is going to be a real value this year for players that are in two quarterback league, superflex leagues, deeper leagues.

I'm in on Gardner Minshue, even though he doesn't know who the hell I am. All right, Matthew Berry. Thank you so much for joining me around the NFL podcast, Fantasy Extravaganza. You know where to find, Matt, but ESPN all over the website on the network all season long. Thank you very much. Check out the Fantasy Focus podcast, wherever you're listening to this podcast. Check out the Fantasy Focus podcast. And I would love to plug rotopass.com, which gets you.

a subscription to many great sites. All the best premium fantasy football sites, including ESPN. Plus, you get a full year subscription to ESPN. Plus, if you use the promo code ATH, right, or ATN, right? You guys are ATN, sorry. ATN.

ATN. The promo of units. Yes, ATN, the promo code ATN at rotopass.com will get you 10% up. So we'll see how many subs you guys can drive. You know, and like, and if you do, like I'll pass it on to you guys as well, you know let you guys wet the beak you know so um that's very nice yeah thank you much thank you very much matthew berry there he goes and that ladies and gentlemen uh puts a cap on the yes 27th annual fantasy extravaganza and we are so happy to um so happy to do this every year because i feel

like we've helped people today, boys. I think so. I think sometimes it's like you wonder what, you know, just like Matthew Barry's wondering, who is Matthew Barry? What is our purpose here as a podcast? And I think you answered it, Dan, it's to help people. I mean, we make a difference. We make a difference in their lives in their fantasy leagues.

Ricky, I'm sure you've taken many notes as your fantasy draft approaches. Yeah, I mean, I was only on the NFL's Fantasy League one show all last year, no one seemed to care about my opinion about any of this, but it's cool. I'm not offended or upset, so it's fine. Do you have a, before we sign off, do you have a player that has not come up? No, I'm done after this four-hour show, so I'm good. You guys got your info. Oh, no, you're not done.

You're just starting, honey. You got a lot of work to do. I know. This grew ugly. All right, so there you go. A reminder, we have two more shows of around the NFL content coming your way. Friday will be the rundown podcast that will get up earlier than usual. So look for that in the afternoon.

And then also Friday we'll be taping around the NFL broadcast, which airs digitally on NFL.com. You can find it on YouTube. And then it airs on NFL Network Saturday morning. So set your DVR if you still have that. If you haven't cut the cord, I know it's happening a lot these days. I still got it. Keeping DirecTV all these years is going to pay off on Sundays this year now that we're stuck at home. Huge, huge.

All right, Mark, congratulations. Do you feel truly part of this now? Yeah, I think this bugle slash trumpet is playing for me at the moment, so I do. Big moment for you. And I always love when you and Silva have a disconnect in conversation. Yeah, it's not exactly like a Starsky and Hutch scenario, I don't think. So what did change between eight minutes before the show when you told me, I'm not sure if I'm going to play any fantasy leagues to 20 minutes into the show,

you telling Silva, like, oh, yeah, I'm signed up for, like, a dynasty, a bunch of best ballies. You know, I know we're trying to get out of here. I'll say it real quick. I mentioned you, Greg, that I thought it might be good to play with my kids. And so I thought, you know, as the show was going on and you're sort of thinking your own things in your head, yeah, that would be a good idea. So that's all fun. I wish your guys would stop talking for one.

Greg would the follow-up question, nobody wants. When Erica starts looking at the camera, we know this one's getting cut for social. Shut up, Greg. All right, this is Dan Hansa signing off for Quiet Storm, the old boss, Ricky Hollywood, and all of our wonderful guests, Adam Rank, Marcus Grant, Liz Loza, Evan Silva, and Matthew Berry. Until Friday. Let's skip through a field. And try not to get the plague.

I'm going to be able to be. Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand. The why behind what happens on Sunday.

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