NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - 2023 Making The Leap Candidates

Episode Date: June 20, 2023

A virtual room filled heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, and Marc Sessler react to news from around the league including Sam Howell getting the starting role for the Commanders (07:20), Hard Knocks being in a tough spot (11:56), the Bengals' options at running back (15:15), Jack Jones getting arrested (21:45), and the return of The Supplemental Draft (24:45). After the break, the guys nominate three players each who they think will make the leap next year. Find out why Marc nominated Kadarius Toney (30:45), Gregg nominated a pair of NFC South wide receivers (48:10), Dan nominated Justin Fields (01:10:05) and more! Note: Time codes approximate NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast. Dan, Greg, all the guys. Hey, oh, from across America. Welcome to Around the NFL. My name is Dan Hansis. Got two heroes here. Greg Rosenthal.

And you know who it is. It's Mark Sessler. Hey, boys. Hey now. I also have a live studio audience. I'm taping in the garage a la Dan in his old place and my son Walker is sitting on the couch. So we got to keep the swears to a minimum today. Okay. And he's just what you do, Greg. He can't hear what we're saying. That's true. That's a great point. It's a great point, Mark. I am in Texas. And I have to tell you something. Texas is a beautiful place. Texas. features people like my wife and her family who welcomed this Yankee into their lives and very sweet, good people, and in general, a very friendly place to visit. But I don't know how these people do what they do, which is live here. Let me read to you, I'm about 60 miles northwest of Austin, Texas, which is, you know,

central-ish Texas. Here's the five-day forecast. And it's been like this since I got here. Today, Tuesday, high of 106 degrees. What is Eric behind the virtual glass? Please find out what that means for people that don't do Fahrenheit. 102 Wednesday, 99. Oh, it cools off on Thursday, 99.

Friday 100, Saturday, 102, Sunday, 103, Monday, Monday, 104, and then I come home. And the heat goes up from there to 104. So maybe I'm catching a break. What have you been, have you, do you spend most of your time indoors in this situation? I'm wearing a bathing suit bottom right now. There's a pool outside that I will be spending much time and I'm drinking an iced tea. There's air conditioning that I've been living in.

It's not, it's not great. It doesn't sound that bad. Well, that part of it is nice. It could be worse. And it is for a lot of other people. So I'm not complaining. Oh, yes, I am complaining. It's too damn hot here.

I like a little weather pop at the start of every show. I think we should introduce that every day, every time. Well, Greg, you jerk. It's a little different when it's 106 degrees. I'm just saying, no, I truly do listen to some podcast that start with like, oh, it's really hot, you know, this spring, like every time. So I'm more making fun of that. Rosenthal, this is extreme weather.

This is newsworthy weather for a podcast, I thought. But maybe it doesn't reach your standards. And I'm sorry. I would just have a little fun. No, I'll be in similar weather in Tokyo next week. I could use a drink, I got to say. It's like 95 degrees in humid there, so let's go. How about you, Mark?

How are you? I'm fine. I'm in, you know, a section of Hollywood where it's very temperate. I think it's probably like 77 degrees, some clouds, some sun. I could tell you, I could tell you. This would be an issue for you or if you were down here, Mark, because you know who's not taking the trip to Texas, Levi. And that jacket, which is remade your image in so many positive ways, you simply couldn't wear it down here. And you need to innovate once again. So maybe you're more fortunate than anyone right now.

Well, no. I mean, I do, I did spend that one year in Arizona where weather wise, it was essentially compared nightly on the news to the Iraq war. So I do understand what you're going through. So this is, yes, our summer of remote shows and, and many, camps are now over. Is it over yet? Oh, yeah. The off season is over over. The NFL is off off. Yes, the off season over. And we hope now everyone across our Fair League is on their best behavior between now and mini camp. And, you know, one series, I would say, boys, perhaps the most enduring series in the history of around the NFL. When you look at it as a component, not just as the podcast, which we've done, what, like 1,600 episodes or so now over the last 10 plus years, but also as writers on NFL.com, making the leap. Hallowed, Gregi, hallowed.

And today we're going to offer, and this is a big deal. And I don't think this is something that the people involved today should treat lightly. I think it's a real honor. We're each going to nominate three Making the Leap candidates for the 2023 NFL season. are you suggesting that one of us in particular is taking it lightly and who is that person which of the three is on your radar it's probably not yourself so which of the two um i'm taking it very lightly for starters um but i'm referring to the actual players themselves i hope when the word gets to them i hope they understand the honor that's been bestowed upon them and i hope the pressure doesn't break them you know that what was the old rg3 that some of ridiculous quotes going into his second year. No pressure, no diamonds. Well, and also, yeah, from a flip side, because, you know, there were years where this went

through different versions on NFL.com. But I remember one summer where the three of us and Wes put out 40 candidates. And I mean, some of the ones that I totally got wrong, I've been dragged for those for years since. I mean, so it's like, it's important for us to hit, you know, three home runs each. But you never know, like when you might be. proven correct because that four-game stretch of Gino Smith back in 2014 or 2015 that made me right of making the leap about it finally cashed in in 2022 seven years later well you also

picked Chase Daniel so I mean it was again it just all a little bit of a bit he was like number 39 I was having all the fun there I think the I think that and Mark I know this will bring back some harrowing memories but how many articles we wrote about RG3 after his reconstructed knee surgery and his endless rehab that summer. And then he, you know, he bottomed out the rest of his career with Washington. But I think the catchphrase that always stuck with me for just how stupid it was and with, you know, the straight face in which he delivered it to the assembled media was it's not about the grind. It's about the find. Yeah, these athlete phrases, we just, we're enduring these phrases at this point. And I still don't know what that means. I think he does, maybe, or

did that was on Wes's radar in a huge way he would get sick of the bumper stickers I would love to hear Wes's thoughts on RG3's burgeoning broadcast career he's doing a nice job over there at ESPN is he doing a nice job yeah I think he's

like he's a rising he's a rising guy gets a lot of attention I don't know if he you know breaks out those phrases as much anymore all right before we do any of that though let's get to the news Snap to Hal. Here comes his first pass.

Over the middle. Fights Terry McLaren to the 10. Five! Touchdown! Touchdown, Washington! Sam Hal's first career pass is a 16-yard touchdown to Terry McLaren. Hey-oh, what a start to a career for the fifth round pick. Sam Hal, who, for the Washington commanders last year, stepped in through that touchdown to Terry McLaren.

I would say it was probably boys the high. highlight of his short time as a starter, but it did give the people a taste of what he could be because despite being a fifth round pick, some people thought entering the draft process last year, he could go very high. And when he fell to Washington, it was seen as maybe a steel. And Greg, the commanders feel good about how to the point that in this year of transition for the organization with new ownership coming in. they seem to be set on giving how the starting job or at least that how that's how it looks he took all of the first team reps uh in mandatory minicamp yeah and ron vera says he'll enter training camp as the starter so they're not messing around with this whole like let's make them battle for it just for the show of it like let's say they're doing with bryce young in carolina for now though he's already the first team and we know sam how as a second year player but i i've felt that a little surprising. After giving Jacoby Brissette, seven and a half million dollars guaranteed,

which is more than any other backup got this off season, they're not messing around. And I like that. They're definitive about it. I don't think this really is a battle. And so there's very little news, I feel like other than injuries that come out of OTAs in minicamp. But this qualifies to me as news that it is going to be howl week one barring total disaster in the preseason in training camp. Yeah, I just think if you're this coaching staff, and Ron Rivera, for the good things that he's done and is consistent and steady as he's been for Washington through a really rocky tenure, they've never found a quarterback. They've done a terrible job at that. So if I'm Ron Rivera, how do you want to, this is your last chance, no matter what Jacoby Brissette does, and he played much better than people expected a year ago. But if you hit on a rookie and it brings excitement and energy to that fan base that's been so long lost, then you have a chance to stick around because then you've done something different and unique versus just floating on through the season with which I expect kind of both of them to play but if you hit on how well it's like you're part of the reason that happened stick around uh I don't yeah we'll see

I mean I think best case scenario well best case scenario is he's a star I think the most likely scenario or something that Washington might even sign off on if you really cornered them privately and got down to the nitty gritty is he he doesn't some things this year. And then when the new owner is in place and they want to make the big splash of quarterback, you have a cheap contract controlled young backup on your roster and how that's kind of how I see it turning out personally. Because it just feels like such a we're neutral in the marina set up for Washington and going with the former fifth round pick as your day one starter screams that out. Despite Greg, I know in your projected roster series, you kind of were taking a back by. how the rest of the roster seems ready to go and maybe that will demand a veteran like Jake Brisket gets in the lineup if House struggles early.

Well, like, how he would be a good making the leap guy. I thought about him. We're just basing it on nothing. You're basically on college where he was fun. You know, he runs more than you would expect in terms of running aggressively and almost looking for contact and you're going to have to worry about that.

But that one game, it's like that one game was more, intriguing to me than any game Kenny Pickett played or any game Desmond Ritter played. So it was something. He has like big time tools. He seems like he wasn't odd by the occasion. And it was one game, so you don't base too much. But that one game was more exciting to me. And he's set up well, I think, with Eric B. Enemy as his coordinator, with a good offensive line, with good weapons to possibly be good. Like if he's going to be intriguing, like he is set up in a nice spot and we might get to know them a lot better because I don't know if you saw this commander's

buzz about hard knocks Danny because they're the one team out of the four that the that HBO could make do it that seems that is open to it but they're kind of waiting for this ownership situation and they might be the in season hard knocks because they don't want to mess around waiting for the ownership and training camp could segue way thank you Gregie well done report surfaced late last week that the NFL is really struggling to find a team that wants to do hard knocks. And the four teams that could be compelled to do it or told to do it, the Jets Bears and Saints, those three teams, three of the four teams said no, they've been vocal no. The commanders, according to pro football talk, Mike Floreo reported on this last week,

were told they would do it if selected. But the NFL, I think you were saying there, Greg, they're not that keen on. doing it when ownership isn't resolved. They might also do it during the in-season hard knocks. So I don't know. I would be I don't know. I wouldn't be pumped if the commanders were the choice for hard knocks. But in

general, and this is something I kind of mentioned Mark early last week's show. I'm nervous about the hard knocks as an entity that this is a story that's leaking out. It's now June 20th. They announced the lines on hard knocks in March of last year. So at some point a team needs to be told. And at some point, these cameras need to get in there. And if it's

going to be a fight like this every year, maybe it's just not meant to be anymore. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's unprecedented. I think there's always been a couple teams, if it was a wider, you know, net of available teams. And it's, it's thin right now that there was always some ownership group or someone that said, like, let's go do it because we're the, we're a team kind of trying to find, show our identity. And like, I'm just standing looking at the, I don't, I feel like the New York Jets. I could see why Robert Sala doesn't want to do it. The coaches don't want to do it, but you have got the perfect team right there. I mean, I cannot think of a juicier entry than four or five weeks of what's going on with that team.

And it's like, it's a shame that you can't marry the potential there with the team wanting to do it. Because I think they were saying a hard no before. We talked to a little birdie, actually, at the office on Friday, Mark, who mentioned that the owner of the Jets wants to do it. But maybe there's a little disconnect there between ownership and everyone else. that's on the ground floor of trying to make that team a playoff squad for the first time in over a decade. We shall see. All right. In other news.

We have to add an update on the temperature situation, by the way, from our good friend Randy Chavez and Eric behind the glass. It translates to 41 degrees Celsius right now where you're at in Texas. That would be higher than the hottest recorded temperature in the entire UK. which was last year, 40 degrees 0.3 since 1911. So that's like hotter than it ever gets overseas. And that was that was a deadly heat wave that hit the UK last year. So that was bad. But that was excellent research from Randy and Eric Roberts.

All right. So in other news report out there, Greg, you're going to help me out with who reported it. The Bengals and Joe Mixon, despite Mixon still being on the roster, his place on the team remains not firm, it appears, because according to a report, the Bengals will tap into, quote, veteran backwaters, which is kind of gross.

If Mixon doesn't agree to take a pay cut, Mixing coming off a tough year, he's had some legal issues, Gregie, and now perhaps he will be out the door if he doesn't work out something new, financially. Yeah, it was Paul Dainer from The Athletic, who's one of the best beat guys out there. Trust them. We've had them on the podcast, too. And yeah, yeah, rare sort of mid-June drop. This has been hanging. Like, Lyle Collins was another one that was hanging. Jonah Williams now looks locked into right tackle. It appears Lyle Collins is going to stick around in some capacity. Maybe you get cut if he had a bad camp.

But Mixing, he threw out there, like, still has to take a pay cut or they're going to scale the veteran backwaters. I don't even know who is in the veteran backwaters, but it does sound gross. Yeah, it sounds hideous visually. But I guess like you've got guys like Kareem Hunt sitting out there. Yeah. When does the insults, honestly, when does the, when do the backhanded and quite frankly front handed insults of running backs end? I mean, now we refer to the free agent pool is backwater.

Yeah, they can't get anyone to buy them a drink. It's been, it's been like an outstandingly horrible offseason. And Riemhunt sounds like a Bengals move, by the way. Yes, I think so. I could see that. And can we and can someone, Mark, can someone give J.K. Dobbins a heads up because he skipped mandatory minicamp over contract issues. He's currently the league's 24th highest paid running back.

I mean, he missed 27 games in three years before staying on the field last year, but it's not going to happen. And all you're doing is incurring fines and potentially putting yourself further down the depth chart, not trying to be mean J.K. Dobbins, but you got to read the temperature. It is not exactly 40 degrees Celsius for running backs right now. No. And he also, he sort of, he said that he would report to training camp because the way the CBA is set up now, the fines are outrageous. You know, to me, this is just like you're posturing and hoping maybe they give you, give you something if you come to training camp and do a, not even a holden, but just a show of good faith. But he doesn't

have the resume right now to ask for that. The thing about him, though, is that I still see him as like, talk about a making a leap type guy because he's removed another year from the injury. He has like a 5.9 yards per carry in his career in the NFL. And he was an explosive college player who just lacks some of that last year. But if you get that back, like, I think it's a very dangerous, like top five running back in the AFC type character. Right. Like, he could get a good contract. He's not going to get it now. He must have a powerful agent because, I mean, I had good contract for a running back. Not right now. I just mean eventually because he's a good young player. He must have a good agent because people were banging this drum about like how well

and they were like parodying the same sort of phrases of how he finished last year. And he did finish last year. Fantastic. But he missed all of 20, 21 and he had 92 carries last year. There's no way he's getting a contract. I do love me some J.K. Dobbins though. He could have a nice season. Wait, Mark, did you say that you think Dobbins could be a top five running back in the I do. I think in that. I agree with that. I could I could see that. I could see that. I could see that. I could see that without any problem. And I think he would have been last, I mean, last year, I was talking him up and we did it on an NFL network piece. And I got totally banged for it because clearly it didn't pan out. But I do think that when you see these little moments that like he fits in

their offense, they're going to throw a lot more to running backs under Todd Munkin. And I just see flashes. And I think that he would have had a completely had it not been for the injuries, we'd be talking about a star running back. But I just, and this is kind of setting up our segment after the break even more beautifully. Mark Sessler believes J.K. Dobbins could be one of the greatest running backs in the NFL in 2023. And it doesn't even sound like he made the cut for making the leap. Wow. Well, I said top five in

AFC, which is not unheard of. So what is he top eight? It's pretty good. He's on my, he'd be on my long list. He was on my long list for her making the leap. The Bengals have $15 million in cap space by the way. If they cut Mixin, I know where I'm circling back,

Dalvin Cook, maybe that's a Dalvin Cook spot. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Dalvin Cook is out there saying how cool it would be to play with DeAndre Hopkins. And so the backwaters are combining. The wide receiver backwaters are flowing into the running back backwaters. And it's very smelly. Leonard Fournett is out there too. Leonard Fournett.

I forgot about him. I was like, who's a free agent right now? No, you know what? It's like a fresh wide receiver. It's like a babbling stream. Is a bubbling stream? I always get that wrong. Going down a creek, like beautiful.

You could drink right out of it. because O'Dell Beckham skips a year after blowing out his knee a second time and he gets like 15 million guaranteed dollars. Meanwhile, Dalvin Cook is like on a Hall of Fame trajectory for his first five years and he's in the sewers below Gotham. What's up like that? Yeah. It's a gross territory to be. But, you know, there were 12 or 13 other positions he could have chosen to pursue as an athlete before he became a running back. Yeah. My old my old boss and he's doing fine. I mean, compared to other positions, they don't get paid, but they're fine. My old boss, Floreo, actually suggested in a piece last week that the running back should

form a committee or something, a group, a union, essentially a union and bargain separately as running backs because they're being taken advantage of. And, you know, I love the content pro football talk is keeping fresh. but if if that doesn't scream like this is the most ultimate late June Mike Floreo article I don't know what was that's very lawyery and I do Mark I even though it was it was harsh the you made your bed now lying it bitch explanation that's fair as well yeah I'm not sure that I'm banging the table so hard on that but I'm just saying that you know maybe players stop choosing to be running backs at this point this guy goes to the gym a few times he just

starts talking tough to these players all of a sudden times in like February the in over in the blotter stupid we talked about how it's these guys keep on getting in trouble for gambling don't go to an airport with a gun Patriots cornerback Jack Jones was arrested at Logan in Boston for attempting to bring two firearms onto a plane and that's you know you hear about this and it's always like huh and then I'm reading a little more about it because he posted bail of 50,000 he's got an arraignment set. It might have even happened by now, but it's coming up. The Chargers against Jones are listed as possession of a concealed weapon, possession of ammunition without an ID card, unlawful possession

of a firearm, carrying a loaded firearm, possession of a large capacity feeding device. He brought this on the plane. The Patriots are aware of the situation, obviously. He's a 2022 fourth round pick. He played 12 games as a rookie, made two starts. And Gregie, we might not see him for the start of the season the league doesn't does not um they're not cool about guns and players as all leagues are not no and his lawyer um made some statements today because he had a court date as we're taping on tuesday and she actually thanked the patriots for not releasing him essentially so i guess their plan is to uh keep him uh that like she was blaming it on social media for portraying her client as a thug, but he's someone that if he didn't play well.

So you always, every time you're playing in the NFL, it matters a lot. Because I have a feeling of Jack Jones wasn't excellent last year when he played, and he was excellent, by the way. I know it was only two starts, but he was one of the highest ranked PFF cornerbacks for much of the season. And he looked like a future starter, a really good player. I don't know if he would still be on the roster. But like most teams, I feel like the Patriots have a sliding scale.

with this stuff and they're going to keep them because of that. And he also got suspended at the end of last year for supposedly not showing up to rehab. He also was arrested when he was at USC for breaking into a restaurant, bounced around because of academic issues. So that's why he fell to the fourth round in general. And so it's, I guess if a Patriots player was going to get in trouble with the law, it's not shocking. It's Jack Jones. And I think they're keeping him because he looks darn good. Well, you can connect those dots.

There are some dots to connect there. But I'm just, I'm mystified to some degree that anyone over a certain age, it's not been drummed into our heads that you don't bring automatic firearms and like a bounty of weapons to an airport. It just, it's not something that works out. You may, you're going to miss your flight. But beyond that, they're much more concerning, pressing issues. They do have signs now.

They do have signs about the firearms in every airport, you know, right as you're going through. And I noticed that LAX, they now have signs. about the weed, too, you know, which that's a new one that's like, don't bring your weed in. We'll kick you off the flight. And it's very specific. Well, I know some people not following that rule. Yeah, that's fair. Finally in the news, welcome back supplemental draft. The NFL informed its clubs that the supplemental draft will return and take place on July 11th. NFL Network insider Ian Rappaport reported on Friday. This is the first year a supplemental draft has taken place since 2019 that year, Purdue wide receiver, shout it out, if you know it.

Milton Wright. Milton Wright, he was reading off a laptop that doesn't count, has been confirmed to teach as eligible as of now. The original supplemental draft was held in 77 to serve prospects who were not eligible for the annual spring draft for various reasons. I don't care really about it, but I will say this, if this brings back the Henry Hodgson supplemental mock draft. to NFL.com, that makes it a success,

no matter who is taken or not taken. Well, that's the only reason I wanted this mention. Sources close to the situation says NFL, UK Hank is aware of this. He's monitoring the situation. He's starting to do deep dives. We might have to have him on the podcast. He's the best in the game when it comes to the supplemental draft. And he was all over Jalen Thompson back in 2019,

who's turned into a nice player for the Cardinals, as a starter as a fifth round supplemental pick. One thing I like about the supplemental draft is it takes, on average, roughly about 10 minutes. Right. And like, all I'm saying is, like, I get the first and second day of the NFL draft, but what if we entered a world where that day three of the draft took on more of a supplemental form and we, you know, it didn't need to be nine and a half hours long? I mean, this is a television product.

Right. It's basically like a group email or group text. It's like, anyone want them in the third? round it's like no one answers oh anyone want him in the fourth round and no one answers and then then we're good so i texted henry um this morning early this morning central time here in texas which was before his bedtime over there in london um asking if he could send a video statement and he uh no replied me and go ahead i do well i'll let you finish i want to hear no and i'm just and i'm concerned because now that henry has this fancy job that he's just

just going to be a little more buttoned up and we won't get that statement from Henry and we might not even get the NFL.com write up because it's not becoming of a suit at his level. I'm concerned about that. I'm putting that on the record on the show. Hopefully he'll surprise me. I'm not as concerned. I also reached out to Henry. Like we're just two minds here. There's not much going on in late June in the NFL. And he unfortunately told me he was actually on his way to New York yesterday and he is in executive meetings all day in New York. Because I was thinking maybe he could even pop on today. So he was probably meeting with Roger Goodell about the future of the NFL.

But to your point, that's what he's busy doing. Yeah, but I think we're forgetting about the incredible passion that Henry showed multiple years in a row to create that piece. I think he's going to do it. Well, that my concern is like, you know, that a beautiful, you know, wild horse once you put it inside, you know, borders. like a, you know, the stall, if you will, or you put him in between these fence posts. He's just not the same beast anymore.

We'll see. I even, I will say this. I texted him the unreplied text. Could you send a professional video statement from your office, Roger's style? And you're telling me he's actually in New York meeting with Roger, probably in Roger's office. Well, why don't we just like connect the dots here and really roll the dice in terms of professionalism? Do it for Roger's office for our next show. That's what a true secretariat would do, you know, a real, real wild horse.

All right. Let's take a break. And then we will nominate some Making the Leap candidates. All right. We are back. And again, as I said at the top of the show, this is a very special honor to quote Dick Banks. And his description of the team of around the NFL, being. nominate, simply being nominated as a Making the Leap candidate is, I think how Lamar Miller felt

years ago when he was nominated three, four, five times, four of those by myself. All of them by you. Yeah, on NFL.com. But, you know, not all these guys are going to have breakout years, but you figure if we can just nail one or even two, I think we show our bona fides as podcasters. I remember the hits. I've learned over the years, just remember the hits. People will remind you of the misses enough, but just hold on to those hits.

Pete, Pete Warner was one last year. I think that hit pretty well. I remember. That was a good one. Do you, I mean, I'm going to leave this totally up to you because this is not a hit piece on Rosenthal, but you did do an article last summer, last July with some candidates. Do you care to see if we had any hits? I mean, I haven't looked at it.

So, yeah. I wonder if, all right. Is it on the assignment list? Let's see. I did it a little different where now they want me to do one for every team, which is like kind of, look, it's probably good for metrics. But, you know, some teams you're stretching. They just like it that way.

It was just fine. You did have Davis Mills last year. I'm not going to go through them well because it is a little different. You had Trevor Lawrence. That was a good one. Bingo. Were we okay with Rocky Sin last year? I don't know.

you had twoa i always like breakfastin i was thinking of him this year there's that man again elijah more he's going to show up on a lot of lists this year too yeah i don't know what miles jack is here a lot of names it's hard to get it right and it's hard it's easy to get sucked into the offseason hype machine so we're going to try to cut through all that mark i know you would be the person out of the three of us most stressed about one of your choices uh being picked before you got to go so we're going to have you go first for your own mental mindset. I got Tuatunga by Loa on it last year, by the way. So there we go.

There's a win. Bang. That's a big victory, Greg. Well, I actually came up with like 13 or 14, and I find a lot of them very juicy. But I'm going to go with a player that had 171 yards through the air a year ago, has battled durability issues. And there are question marks about how he can last for NFL season. but when we've seen Cadarius Tony in that Chiefs offense and what we saw what he did down the stretch

and when you've seen Juju Smith-Schuster exit stage left and all the whispers are whether or not they have a number one he's going to be treated that way. And I just think that what we saw live at the Super Bowl in that stadium, but just the way they used him and Andy Reid's hyper-creativity in general and the idea that Patrick Mahomes makes everyone around him so much better that Cadarius Tony who in the past couple years

has had quad, hamstring, oblique, thigh issues, and a minor knee surgery, that's an issue. But if he can stay healthy, I think this can be one of the more electrifying guys around. I mean, we've already seen it. He's just a special athlete. It's just about staying on the field. I think he's had a good offseason because I think there were different ways this offseason could have gone. And maybe they will at Hopkins, whereas they've been in the mix for these wide receivers, but they haven't closed the deal.

and there's going to be more opportunities for Tony. I just did look through my list. He was on it last year, actually. So I don't know if that's a hit or not. He did have a nice moment in the Super Bowl, certainly. But he was on the list last year. I like him better this year as a choice, though. Yeah, a class act moved by old Zusser because I was going to go with this one.

And I just wanted to make sure Mark had an opportunity. Cadarius, Tony. Yeah, it's weird, Mark, because it's like, everything else is there. So I don't foresee a situation where he stays healthy and isn't a big time player. I just think he's too talented and he's with arguably the greatest quarterback ever at the height of his powers. And with Juju Smith-Schuster not around, it just makes sense that he's going to gobble up some targets and just be heavily involved with the offense. That said, the making the leap exercise when a guy is always hurt and then, you know, come week four and he's hurt.

it again and you're thinking yourself, why did I do that? Because this always happens. Like, how does he, how does this man stay on his feel? Is his body just not built for that? I guess we'll find out. But you're right. Everything is there for him to have that big breakthrough season. When we've done this exercise in the past, I've sometimes gotten sucked in by

playoff runs as well. And then the season comes and it's like, okay, he got hot or the stars aligned. Tony kind of qualifies for that because would he be on this list for you, Mark, if he didn't have that memorable Super Bowl? No, but I use those Well, the Super Bowl That certainly was like a nice cherry on top But even throughout the playoffs

I thought they just started to use them in different ways And it just seemed to me like a flash forward To what Andy Reid will create with them this offseason But you're absolutely right Because I mean, having done these making the leaps When you pick a guy that's sort of an injury risk You are putting yourself into a blender half the time Dude just moves different

I've loved him since that game he had as a rookie for the Giants against the Cowboys. He just moves different. Our guy, Spicerack, who I want to get back on the show. We got to get him back. We didn't have him on during the draft season, but he was a huge Cadarius Tony guy in terms of the way that he moves. You can just see it.

The only way it doesn't work is if they just spread the ball around to like five guys. And I saw someone put this post of like how well Valdez Scantley played in the AFC championship game, which I totally forgotten. If you watch that one game, you'd think, my God, that's a great receiver. And it's just like Sky Moore gets. a little bit. Their rookie rice gets a little bit. The running backs get a little bit. Kelsey is still Kelsey. And he's just like one of those guys. I guess that's the only way you would miss if he's healthy. But I don't think that's going to happen. It should be noted that I believe on his last

appearance on around the NFL, Spicerack made predictions about his contact with various people on this program. And his prediction for me is that we would have zero contact from that point forward. And he was correct. So I would say if you want to get him back on the program, it's up to one of you guys. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. I feel like maybe he could talk a little bit rookies in new places. He's a big. You had in the past, though, a mysterious, not fully explained to us, I don't know, Ted a Tet or beef with him to some degree. Is this still a remnant of that? I wish I could tell you if that is even true. I think he made some hazy comments about our meeting in Las Vegas years ago. I remember having a good time with him, spending

multiple days with him. He's a wild card. And I think to try to get inside the mind of a spice rack is to be mystified and perhaps confused. Well, it's well said. I'd like to be inside. You feel like being alive. I know what he's excited about.

The Cincinnati Reds, nine straight wins. A lot of exciting players over there. All right, Gregi, you're up next. Okay. I'm going to cheat. I have two guys that, to me, are together and I couldn't pick one between them. so I'm just going to pick them because they fit well as a group.

I know Dan doesn't like this. No, that's first of all, it's not what we agreed to beforehand. And you might end up picking one of your colleague's choices. Okay, so I'll put the one. Then I have two different tandem like this where they both fit well together. That was going to do. Greg, now Dan is automatically picking fourth. Now I'm sneaking.

I'm sneaking in. There's no way he's picking either one of these firsties. So I'll keep the big name, the bigger name guys. off the shelf for now. I'm going to go linebackers, middle linebackers. Kaden Ellis for the Atlanta Falcons, who I love with that extra S on his name. I love a little extra totally unnecessary consonant at the end of a name. It's Ellis, my daughter's name with an extra S. It's 40% Ellis or something like that. And then Aziz Alshah here for the Titans. No, that's not right. Actually, it's 33%. It's 33%. 33%.

And then Aziz al-Shahir for the Titans. So they're both a little random. They're both under the radar. Caden Ellis, if you go back and watch when he came in as a replacement for Pete Warner and DeMario Davis in the middle of last season, he had about a four-game stretch where he looked like Fred Warner. I was like, this guy's insane. And it was like, where have they been hiding Caden Ellis all these years?

Like, he moves to the ball so well that he can do a variety of roles. He reminds me a lot of Pete Werner, which is why I don't think they resigned him when he got to free agency. Werner was one of my hits on making the leap last year. And I think Ellis, who got a nice deal from the Falcons, there's some carryover in terms of the front offices, New Orleans, in Atlanta. So I think they've looked for a linebacker like that for a while. And it's just someone people don't know about.

And I think IDP leagues, like if you're into fantasy, he could rack up tackles. And he's just a good young player. And it reminds me a little bit of Aziz al-Shahir, who whenever he played for San Francisco, was just looked like a star. And he was on a team which had two of the best linebackers in the league in terms of Warner and Dre Greenlaw. And so now he's in Tennessee. And these are guys that will show up.

I'm basic when I'm watching defenses. Like guys who make tackles who are in the middle of the field or the quarterback of the defense, those are the guys are easier to notice. And I could see both of these guys getting talked about a lot during the season. So I'm pairing him together. And I know I didn't take one from you, Dan. No. In fact, you could do as many linebackers as you want, Greg.

That's it. Those were the under the radar. But they felt like they were similar, like their fifth-year players actually going to a new team. So I just was pairing them together. But have you thought about it all? Because, again, the nomination process is sacred. How do they feel? Like, how did Steve McNair and Peyton Manning feel when they were co-MvPs?

It took a little of the luster off. And I'm wondering if your two young men here are feeling the same way right about now. That's another way to look at this thing. If I had just picked one, yeah. I think I would have gone with Ellis, I guess, if I had now and now it makes Alstair here feeling worse. now he's in a back sewer with the running backs he's going to be great that's going to be great all right that's good greg it's very important you bring that nitty gritty football guy uh vibe to the show getting the linebackers in i'm going to get right back onto basic boulevard and uh let's move to

that's where i like to be real basic and i'll do one maybe maybe this will hurt gregg we'll make feel good, but also he'll be like, oh, I wanted to nominate this player. So that's good. Ramadre Stevenson. New England Patriots. You never, you never know how Bill is going to, going to dole out his running back work. But I think there's a lot to be said for the tape Stevenson put out there. And then two other outside factors.

One, Damien Harris is no longer there. He's with the bills. Um, you know, actually, I need, give me a little juice, Eric, behind the virtual glass. Give me a little nomination music. This will make, this will sell this better. Yes. Rondre Stevenson, fresh off that 1,000 yard season. And now he has a clear path to bulk carries.

And in Bill O'Brien as the new offensive coordinator, B.O.B is not the most, you know, you know, innovative play caller when it comes just opening things up. And he has Mack Jones, a quarterback coming off a rough season that I think he wants to ease into the mix and give plenty of help. So I think Stevenson, it's going to be his show on the offense more than it's going to be an erred out passing game type situation. He's a three-down type back. And when Stevenson has 1,300,400 total yards this season,

he will absolutely qualify as a man that we will see making the leap in 2020. I like it a lot. I think, first of all, a good making leap candidate has given us a fair amount of proof that they can make the leap versus just something from out of the dark. And he looked great at times last year in a totally non-functional attack. So there's sort of an arrow up feel with Bill O'Brien there. And I think it will be a healthier environment. And there is less of a clown car of runners this time around because that would be my one thing with Bill Belichick. And we've just seen it going back to you know 10 years ago plus it's just like I'll use six running backs then on some random Monday night game our fourth string guy will get 35 carries and run for 180 yards so if he's if bill's a little over some of that nonsense and you stick with Stevenson I think you got something let me ask you this Greg because you you follow the team as closely as anyone is this one should this not count do you think Stevenson made the leap already yes but that mean and I I'm glad you asked because when I do that written piece,

there's different types of leaps. For him to make the leap, forget 1,400 yards. He got that last year, actually, yards from scrimmage. That's how good he was kind of under the radar, fantasy heads, though. But he ended up with 1,400 yards from scrimmage

and 69 catches. He has to make it to what Mark was talking about, top five running back. All right, hang, I actually think he could do it. I think he could do it. Bring me my music back. I want because I got to I got to clean this up a little bit why do you get the music by the way it sounded I thought of better

because I thought of it you could have it you could borrow it if you want I just want to borrow it I don't claim that you I agree that you thought of it 1400 yards a season ago with six touchdowns five on the ground this year he surpasses 1850 total yards and 15 total touchdowns. He becomes a true star running back, which means he'll be released a year later salary cap considerations. I could see it.

When Bill talks, when Bill Belichick talks about Stevenson, you could just tell it's his guy. Like he always talks about how he doesn't make any mental errors. He did fumble a lot, but he just like understands every play. and in a way that almost hasn't happened since Corey Dillon, I could see them just trusting him every single down

and just going for it because he's not great at anything, but he makes you miss. He's a power back. He's a receiving back. He's good at everything. And that's exactly what Belichick loves. Well-rounded. A couple woe games that 29-0 went over Detroit in week five.

He went 25 for 161. that absurd loss to the Raiders, the Chandler Jones game. He was 19 for 172, 9 yards a rush. It's there. It's there. And if you want to load him up and make him the guy, he could become a true star running back. In fact, next week, Mark, we'll be rolling out the superstar club, 2023. I feel like I back myself in a corner here a little bit because if I'm going to say he's making that leap to 1,800 total yards and 15 TDs,

Does that put him in the superstar club? I mean, I do feel like I got to get a little more risky. Yeah, you can't have it both ways. I mean, he's, he's getting close to that club. All right. I feel like you can't have it both ways. That's, that's a lot to ask Superstar Club for a line. I want that music, by the way.

I mean, I understand the day. Wait, wait, hang on. Let me, let me think internally. All right, you could have it. All right. Well, I'm going running back too because I see. a chance for this player who has really never done anything beyond 500 yards on the ground in a season, always held back behind the person in front of him, that person is gone.

Dalvin Cook is gone. And so Alexander Madison, who watching running backs, whenever I've watched him, I've loved it and wished he were a starter earlier, had a chance somewhere else. Kevin O'Connell has been glowing about him all offseason, saying that he's absolutely stepped in and showed the ownership that a three down back needs to show inside of offensive meetings that he's already, he's known he could do this for a long time. And this is going to be an offense that runs the ball. It's like they didn't get rid of Dalvin Cook because they're just going to go past heavy alone and not use a running back. Like,

Alexander Madison's already shown he can do it. I would point to the 2022 campaign where he, or 21, where he came in for a to injure Dalvin Cook and how he was, had 451 yards, 212 yards through the air and five touchdowns in five starts. I thought that stretch was what frustrated me because it's like then he was put back into the shadows largely. This is a starting NFL running back in a good position to have obviously his biggest year, but not just some milk toast season. I think he could be something special.

Now, as someone who loaned that song out, Dan, do you think, do you think, people that use the song do we need to finish by the end of the song and then if you keep talking after the end of the song it's not fair fair use you have to like pay extra a little backhanded shot the old cess dog there

I want to go check the tape and see if you did I'm assuming you did but I don't clearly remember that let it be no to let the record state that that was not I was not adding that the notation for the usage of the song I would say I think it's more important to the listeners and the nominee

that you get those thoughts out. So it's okay. I mean, I'm in trouble. Me with my double dippers, I'm not exactly short-winded. Is that a word? You know, I just made it up. You know, I'm overly verbose. I thought that was well said on Madison.

I'm surprised, like, there's not a little more hype about him. Even among Vikings fans, like, they don't seem always that excited. And I really like him. Reminds me a little bit of Chester Taylor, former Raven, who got a chance to be the guy in Minnesota way back in the day when he got a chance to step up he was a fantasy star can do everything and I'm with you I'm with you in medicine all right that's good all right Greggy well you're up again and uh well I'm I'm afraid you don't like this double dipping thing why don't I ask do you have any wide receivers from the NFC South I don't you'd be free on my list

I have a wide receiver that I'm still, even as we're going through this episode, trying to fight against throwing out there, but he is not in the South. Okay, let's hit the music. All right. I'm going double-dipping from the NFC South. It's the wide receiver's Chris Olive in Drake London. This music does make me feel excited. You know, when I watched Desmond Ritter's tape, London just stuck out.

You look at his numbers and he got overshadowed a little bit by Garrett Wilson and OLAVe. And my God, like, he gets open way better than I expected. The Mike Evans comparisons make a lot of sense. If he wasn't stuck on the Falcons, I think we would have looked at his rookie season as a huge, huge success. He had some key fumbles at points, but he attacks the ball. He runs with it. He's a red zone guy like Drake London did everything, even better than I expected coming out of the gates. Made the Kyle Pitts slow start look bad.

And then Olave, yeah, he got votes for rookie of the year, but I still think people undersell him. They look at him as like almost like a number two that's going to get 1,1100 yards every season. I think he could be like a true number one, Marvin Harrison, 1,400, 1,500 yard receiver. To me, he is going to be the guy in New Orleans, racking up stats, getting open. And it's not going to be flashy. It's got a lot of be a lot of 13-yard gains, a lot of 30-yard plays. He's going to be avoiding hits. Like, he's not going to be flashy, but he's going to be flashy.

make catches he's going to get open olive and london 2023 for president for making i don't get i don't get the pairing thing but um well they're both you know second year receivers from the south they couldn't choose between them i love them both so much it's you know who do you like more well london the academy will reflect that alave but london surprised me more i didn't expect him especially because of his numbers and his profile coming out of college. I think he is a little better of a fit actually for making the leap because he kind of got overshadowed by the other rookie receivers. And I think he's going to make a big step up.

I guess it's just like it comes down to like an output thing too, because watching Alave, I kind of felt like he made a rookie year leap in terms of watching him. But I get part of the exercises the production could be, you know, incrementally bigger. London, I'm with you on London, too. I think there were, I just remember watching Marcus Marriota for Cuban next week after week, and then we're like, it's obviously a Marriota thing, so there's a lot of that, but London seemed to have occasionally key drops and lose the ball here and there, but you also see, I think that's kind of going to go away after your rookie year in a weird quarterback situation, although it's still a little strange, but there's a lot of weapons there.

I mean, he's got a chance, I think, to be the lead guy there, no question. He's still 21 years old. He's about to turn 22 in late July. But to do that as a 21 year, you're right. There were some big moments. He lost that Saints game with a fumble. He had a couple key drops. You know, I can live with that with the plays that he made.

Yeah, I think with maybe Alabe more than London, he's more maybe in the Madre Stevenson category where he's already proven himself. that he's going to be a big time player in the league. When you come out as a rookie playing on a mediocre team and you finish 72 for 1,042 and four touchdowns, I expect you to make that leap in year two. Like I could have I could have went obviously Garrett Wilson going from Zach Wilson and Joe Flacco and Mike White to Aaron Rogers. I expect him to be knocking on the door of the Superstar Club this year.

But I don't want to go too heavy on those guys that have kind of made the leap but are going to the next level. But I agree, Alave, I think, is a slam dunk. Drake London, yeah, I still, I worry about that QB room and how that will depress and deflate numbers and maybe added stress in that building to finally not only give touches to this dynamic young running back you just brought in, but finally make sense of the Kyle Pitts era in the NFL. And if that could end up depressing some of the targets for Drake London, that would not

stunned me, but obviously very talented players. Yeah, I was hesitant on a lobby, but I think it's because I'm basing on what I hear about a lobby, which is, I think there's this feeling that he's like DJ Moore, that he was a huge double right off the bat. He's going to be a good receiver forever. I think he could, he could be a superstar that he could be leading the league and receiving. Also like a football head, if you're paying attention, like all the people that love to write about the game and pound table for guys. and the analytics pop in the hood. I'm sure Matt Harmon,

his reception, it was very kind for Chris Alave. Everyone sees it as a guy that has a chance to be truly. All right, you called me too basic. I get it. I should have gone some more

under the radar, guys. No, listen, you just came off a double linebacker nomination. This is fair. That was fine. I liked it. I liked it.

I'm up. Um, all right. Shoot, this is hard. Because we're doing three each. I'm going to save my last. Greg is doing six each, but yeah, we'll do.

My last one is actually, he's by himself. I could try to, I could try to find a combo, but it would be a stretch. Oh, do I want to do it? Oh, God. All right, I'll do it. Last time at the rodeo. You could re-nominate Kate and Ellis. Last time at the rodeo, Jerry Judy.

Oh, I like it. I like it. Can we finally be? And I think he's been on, what is this, his fourth year now? Or is his third year? It's only his third year, right? Yeah, I think he was on everyone's making the leap list for the most part last year.

This is his fourth season. This would be his third potential making the leap. Isn't that crazy? He's already in year four now. And you heard the rumors. Music, please. I mean, I should get it without saying. It just should fill the room.

It goes without saying that, Moody has talent, former first round pick. And we all remember when Russell Wilson joined the team and everyone thought they were going to make magic didn't work out. Russell Wilson's still there. Russell Wilson, by the way, remember what he was called? Hang on, tech difficulties.

That's why you got to watch the YouTube. The end mic exploding out of nowhere. This is even sadder when this inspirational music is playing. I am enjoying this. Now I'm holding the mic like Freddie Mercury. Remember when Russell Wilson was called a sack of potatoes at the back end of last season, which felt like a dig at his build and how hard he might have been working? A lot of reports out of Denver that he's down serious pounds and is light and moving his feet.

Maybe the light turned on knowing all of a sudden his whole football career is up in the air. So if it's Russell Wilson lighter, peppier, more. focused, Sean Payton, and what he brings to any offense that he runs. And then Jerry Judy, a great route runner, a playmaker, a guy that has already flashed in his career when he hasn't dealt with injuries himself. Yes, Judy, I'm doing it. One last time at the rodeo, making the leap in year four. The video of Russell Wilson proves what you're pointing to, those reports. He looks tangibly different to me physically. I think he's, you know, there obviously couldn't have been humbled anymore. He's got some sort of hashtag tagline out there about it being like a redemption type season

too. I don't remember the exact verbiage, but it's very rust. It's not about the grind. It's about the find. It wasn't quite that on the nose, but it was pretty much on the nose. But I mean, everything there should be a little bit more controlled, a little bit better. I still trust Sean Peyton. Jerry Judy to me, like from the minute he hit the league, He could do these fascinating things and then beguile you with terrible drops. I just never really had like the right quarterback situation there. So this environment feels positive compared to the horror show we witnessed the year ago. Yeah.

And, you know, he was better last year. Like his numbers, yards per route run, yards per target. It was so much better than Cortland Sutton, for instance, or anyone else on that team. He did have his career high in receptions and yards didn't break a thousand yards. but he was better. I have not given up on Jerry Judy either. I'm sure he's been on my making the leap. Maybe I'll bring him back on if I need one for every team.

Although I like another Bronco. Greg Dulcich, the tight end is on my longer list. It's almost like if he doesn't this year, if Judy once again is inconsistent as a producer or struggles to stay on the field, he deserves to go in this other like category you don't want to be in. Maybe Lamar Miller's in it.

like making the leap guys that repeatedly trick people into being that they were that guy and it never really happened. But I'm going to say there are enough factors in play. And is he their clear number one? Sutton obviously is still there too. But I think I think Judy is a nice scheme fit with Sean Payton also. I, in terms of what he does is a skill set. I'm in. Let's go. Let's go, buddy. Do it. If for some reason he got to free agency, which you could actually see happening, like let's say he has a similar year this year to next year they don't want to pay like people will still pay jerry judy a ton of money receivers are just worth that much now and they never get the good ones it's hard to get them in free agency like there will be seven gms out there uh who are huge

making the leave fans that are like screw it let's give them 20 million dollars a year like it is still it'll still happen i could say it i could see it but you know what maybe if not to skew negative again. But if he has Sean Payton and Wilson's better and it still doesn't happen, maybe that would depress his value. I guess I hope we don't find out. I hope he just lights it up. The Wilson's better part is a complete mystery. Yeah. All right. It is time now for the final nomination. Once again, Mark, this is the floor is yours. No one can take anything from you. You're at complete ease as you nominate your final player for making the leap. I'd like the music to be added on top of Yes, please.

This, uh, I, I am picking between two Georges, um, because I really wanted to go George Karloftus of the Chiefs, who I think, uh, has a real opportunity with Frank Clark gone to be, I just found him so disruptive, um, to watch. And there's something about it that, like, harkens back to an old time. But I'm going George Pickens, uh, 801 yards a year ago, 51 catches, four touchdowns. I mean, we saw it. The thing is, you can't say you made the leap last year because I think

A lot of it happened when Kenny Pickett got involved. They showed chemistry. I mean, I could just see these two being together for a long time. There isn't a team in the league. I trust more to develop wide receivers. But beyond that, like what we see him doing from a hand eye coordination angle, athleticism, acrobatic catches. He's just made to be an NFL start.

And I guess you have to trust that Kenny Pickett picks up where he left off, but I do. Hmm. I hope my comments about the, you know, finishing. before the song was over didn't. Yeah, because you were on a roll. You were on a roll. I felt like I was ready to stop speaking. Because I can I, I want to be.

I'm relieved, Mark, that you went with a Pittsburgh Steeler because I was going to, if you didn't nominate either pick it or someone connected with the team, I was gonna accuse you of doing the old move that many people, the trap people fall into in this business, which is the old, remember the Contra spread gun? Remember the, what?

In Contra, the NDS game? Yeah, it was like, we have the spread. Remember that one? Yes. And just the Bulls shot everywhere. Yeah, it's a great weapon. And you're already on record on the show saying that Steelers are winning 12 plus games and Kenny Pickett's taking the leap.

So somebody had to be in the making the leap conversation from Mark as a nomination. And going with his potential number one ride receiver checks. the box. So I'm just, I'm, I'm giving you a compliment. You, you're a man of your word. Well, thanks. Because when it comes to Pickett, like, I think when we talk about making the leap as a quarterback, like there's a lot of competition in real estate. Like I, he can kind of just be who he was last year for the most part. And they're functional. But like, do I don't see, I'm not, it's tougher for me to project Kenny Pickett making a massive like Josh Allen like leap. Hmm. Pickens is a good one. I like that he's different than other.

receivers too like the analytical uh consensus is sort of like guys who in contested catches are a little more unreliable like there's only so many contested catches you'd rather have a guy that just gets open or wins after the catch like those are more valuable skill sets george pickens is a throwback in some ways to guys from the 90s where it's just like just throw it up to him and he's going to go get it he is that is his superpower and he's going to learn and get better at receiving kind of like DK Metcalf is. I know he's not as physical, but that is a superpower that it carried over. And I have no reason to think it's not going to keep carrying over like that choice. All right. Greg. So last year, I did check that making

the leap, you know, list had some hits to a. Zach Allen was on there. He actually, you already brought out to a you're making it sound like me. Jalen Hurts. Jailen Hurts. Jailen Hertz I had on there. You had Hertz? Had Hertz. I mean, I was banging the drone for Hertz last off-season. Iuke. And then like 26 other guys, you know. But I'm going to go back to quarterback

and I debated this because you know, I could go for more under the radar ones and maybe this is predictable. Maybe it's not. I think that Corgle Jones is making the leap. I think people threw away his last season

and put it all on him at the same time. They're saying Matt Patricia is the worst offensive coordinator in the history of the league. It's the biggest mistake ever. And I hear this quarterback draft of starters where he came in 29th and I think Lawrence was six. And I'm not saying he's Trevor Lawrence. He's not going to have the career. But like when Lawrence had a total abortion as a head coach, you know, we threw that away. When Matt Jones had Matt Patricia, he needs to have a good system around him. He He is a system quarterback. His leap is to a Kirk Cousins-like level where he's a slightly above-average quarterback

who has already shown a couple of things, which is tough. Reading the defense quickly, touch-timing accuracy. He did that at a Philip Rivers-like level as a rookie that made me excited. And it's not just because I'm a Patriots fan. I like quarterbacks like this often. And people have really kind of given up on him having a good career. And I think this situation with Bill O'Brien's going to be much better. And I think he can bounce right back into being a solid to better than average quarterback, third year in the system.

Touch timing and accuracy. McCorkle, don't let me down. I mean, the only place I'd push back, Greg, a little bit is that I feel like people were critical of Trevor Lawrence for up through the midpoint of last season. because we were seeing things that were suggesting that there were issues. And when it came to Mac Jones, like, I feel like from midseason on, it was kind of like, well, he's in a disaster situation. Like, this is a, you know, this year is a throwaway year. This year doesn't count. He gets a do-over.

I just feel like that was the language that I heard and spoke more about Mac Jones, where it's like you can't blame him for what's going on. That's that, I still see him as like a top 15, 16, 17 quarterback. Right. Well, that would be, I feel like, though, if you actually write him down, And maybe we'll do this exercise. I guess I'd be curious if you really would have them there. I wouldn't even have them there yet because it's a pretty deep crop of quarterbacks now.

And I get that. But I kind of look at him versus the other, you know, rookie quarterback, you know, guys from that year. And I just think he's put good football on tape. And that's one thing I think that's helped me doing making the leap. When a guy at some point has shown a high level of play at any point in their career, Like, they can get back to that. He's put it on tape as a rookie. And I think now the knowledge and hopefully the system really helps him out.

Yeah, he was done no favors last year with the way Belichick botched the offense. He stunk, though. I'm not arguing. Yeah, he did not play well. I, yeah, he, the rookie season, definitely there were moments where he, he played really well during that year as well. But I don't know, man. I mean, what you say Kirk Cousins. He could have a cousin's-like career, and that feels a little rich to me.

I'm wondering if one aspect of him, like, is he likable? Do his teammates like him? Does his coach like him? I think that's a fair question. Is this personality? It seems to just walk the line between a fiery, competitive guy with some swag and kind of a guy that maybe is writing, what do they say, writing checks with his mouth that his body can't cash a little bit.

I'm very conflicted because I see what you're saying and would it surprise me if the Patriots end up being a competitive team and Jones bounces back? No, but is he also just like a middle of the road guy who talks too much? And I think that could be true too. I'm leaning in that direction that he's not the answer in New England. So we'll see. That could be true.

But I would also say that like some of his fire from last season and some of his comments were just completely warranted. And he didn't come with that out of the gate. That was as things really started to break apart. And if anything, they went out of their way to pair him with Bill O'Brien, a play caller who knows him. They're implementing Alabama elements to the offense. They're going to give it a try and we'll find out.

I could see them yelling at each other back and forth, too, though. They're both fiery. I think Dan's right that he was immature last year. There might be a question of whether his teammates like, and I think it was immaturity last. year. He does some mature things on the field. He's still a young guy who I think hopefully learned a lot last year. You're right, Dan. If he goes another year with being a pain in the butt, like his career, this is a huge year for his career. His career is going to take, yeah, he's going to be a backup. I would just say to what you said, Mark, that he did while he was sold down the river in some ways by his coaching staff. I just fundamentally disagree with like he was okay or in the right to act out on the field and the report about him reaching out to, other coaching staffs from his past, like take that and compare that to Trevor Lawrence the previous year when he was an even worse situation with Urban Meyer, who wasn't even a real human

being coaching that team and making a mockery of Lawrence's rookie season. And the guy never said anything. He never publicly spoke out in a way that kind of made himself a distraction, even though he was going through hell. And then he got a better coach and Doug Peterson and some better players. And then he really got his career going. I didn't love how Jones kind of made it a show of look how f*** up this scene is here. And I'm going to point it out because I am who I am. I see why I see why it could happen because I like in sports, even though I'm at a far lesser level, like when I was, you know, playing even in intramural sports, sometimes you kind of lose yourself a little bit. But like when you're the quarterback,

there's just a higher level, I think, of accountability that he lacked last year. I guess all I'm trying to say is that like when I, first of all called him like somewhere in the low, low teens. If you get the rookie version of him, I think he is around there. And I'm willing to forgive what happened last offseason, just kind of like, see where we go. Because we might feel differently about him, the leader and the person. But I guess some of that comes out and you learn about them in the tough situations. And it was a tough situation. And there were endless gifts and memes of him like blowing up at Matt Patricia from the middle of the field, which is not what you want on a weekly basis. No, but Belichick was so sick of him. I think he'd be

an ex-patri if the right situation had landed for them this offseason. But it didn't. And I do think he was immature, too, like, because he was trying to list, like, he was too aggressive at first, and he kept making big mistakes. And then he pulled it in too much and was just trying to avoid mistakes. And if you watch the last four or five games of the season, according to PFF, I think he had counting it up now, 10, 11 big time throws or nine big time throws, two turnover worthy plays.

Like, he cleaned it up by the end of the season. And I'm still basing on what I saw as a rookie. He's an interesting test case because he just can't make, he's not a playmaker. Like, can you win in 2023 with a quarterback that can't make plays? Because to me, when I see him, I think he could be a better version of Jimmy G too, touch accuracy, getting rid of the ball quickly. Like, can a Jimmy G really succeed in 2023? I don't know.

There's not really many of those examples coming up that are having a lot of success that can't make plays. So he's a good test case. Okay. My last one and our final nominee. And again, congratulations, all the nominees. And good luck in the upcoming season. I thought maybe I'll go with a defender. You know, we got Greg Rousseau and Buffalo.

Seems like a guy who could do something. I think a lot of people are expecting maybe I'll go Homer and go with a jet. And Elijah Vera Tucker, definitely somebody I think who could be an all pro guard if they just leave him be. and he stays healthy. But I'm going to also go quarterback, Greg, the place where I thought you were going, because I'm looking for a true star, making the leap situation to QB.

So let's head to Chicago. And let's head to Justin Fields. Because Fields didn't get, as a fan of a team that does a bad job building around young quarterbacks, Chicago did it wrong in his first two years. You had Matt Nagy there, and then by the time new leadership took over, the roster was in a total tear down.

So there goes year two. But even with year two having a situation where they, I think they lost 10 straight games on the year, we saw special things. And going back to what you were saying, Greg, it's good to see it, to see a guy be special and then say, can he build on that? And I think Chicago finally did it right. It's better late than never. with their moves here trading out of the number one pick and making him that decision we are standing behind fields and we're going to build around him that trade resulting in dj more a true number one wide receiver darnell right another wide receiver in tyler scott they added

bobby tonyon dante foreman uh is in for david montgomery of calil herbert who who really flashed last year another guy who you could have nominated in this exercise at running back in front of him and you improve the skill players, now you could properly evaluate Justin Fields. And he has things to clean up. He was very bad in terms of his completion rates with a clean pocket. He needs to be better at a play action. But these are things that with a better supporting cast, good reports coming out through spring practices about him starting to understand things more. I just think the talent is going to break through here in a more professional setup for him. Justin Fields becomes the star the bears desperately need him to be my final and to me

the most important making league candidate, uh, because Chicago football deserves a true shining star at signal caller. Let's do it Justin Fields. I love this because I think of everyone that we've named like the ceiling, if it works, he is the ceiling. Like he becomes a transcendent player. And I like I think what's lost a little bit from last season, was we saw the power on the ground, the total disruption, the way that he would just completely baffle defenses. I think he grew as a passer down the stretch, and it just makes me think a little bit of where we were a year ago

at this time with Jalen Hertz. It was still like, well, not necessarily trying out for his job, but kind of, like they had flatlined against the bucks and the playoffs, and they added some weapons, and then he made that leap as a passer, and you're looking at an MVP candidate. So if he can grow, Justin Fields can mimic that. I think you're looking at a star, And like, when is the last time there was a true star quarterback in Chicago?

And so I think the ceiling here, like I said, is just the highest of any player we've talked about. Yeah, he plays quarterback in such a different way. He holds onto the ball forever. And I feel like he's got to improve that a little bit. Like his time to throw was higher than any quarterback in the league. Deshaun Watson was close. And though you're trying to, like, survey, you're trying to make plays. He's such a naturally talented thrower.

he sets up and aims it, it goes where he wants to go. So I think all the things that he has to improve on are improvable with the experience. And his life is going to be easier, like Jalen Hertz and Lamar Jackson, because he's one of the greatest running quarterbacks in the history of the league. Every good running quarterback is now. I mean, he's put up the numbers. And it just is going to open up options and make it more decisive, I guess, in terms of the reads that he makes. It should. And that's not his fault. He's the one setting that up with his

talent. He should make it easier to be a passer. But he needs to take a step as a pastor because he didn't take as big a step as a passer last year as I expected. Yeah. And it can't give him a total pass. Right. I mean, his QB record, if that matters at all. And I don't think it does for him because like I said, they didn't set him up well. But he's lost 20 of 25 starts so far. So he's been around a lot of losing. Also, just looking at his pro football reference page, I don't know if you guys know this. He finished in the top 10 in MVP voting last year. He's at number nine. And that's solely because of, um, that's solely one weirdo, uh, gave him like a fifth. Yeah, that's, that's very strange. Um, but that's solely because of how much he flashed some, some weirdo,

like radio guy from Chicago probably did that like snoozer in the morning. But when he had, before he got hurt, um, he was kind of taking things over and fantasy heads know that because anybody that had him in November or so last year said, oh, I'm winning my league because this guy is blowing up defenses and then he got hurt. So again, injuries is something that have to be considered here because he plays physically. He runs a ton. He's coming off an 1100 yard season rushing. Maybe they'll look to tone that down a little bit and develop more as a passer and give him that balance. But don't take him away. Don't do the thing I worry about with Henry where they put him in the old. what do they call it the corral don't corral them we're talking about Henry Hodgson now has been putting up yeah Henry Hodgson vice president of the

UK I'm challenging Henry at this point it feels like a full on challenge and one of those things where he might be mad at me but I want to see that that great Henry spirit come out with his official statement on the supplemental draft we circle back to that I like that

yeah he's a great friend of mine one of my closest friends. So I hope he understands this is not a needling, but it's, it's a challenge as friends need to do sometimes to each other. I've done some research on this MVP vote here. Yeah. Let's hear it. Justin Fields was one of eight men who received one fifth place vote.

So we added, you could vote one through five now. That's kind of fun. I like that. Oh, wow. And so they all tied for ninth. Also receiving one fifth place vote. And yeah, I'm sure there was a Chicago. person that did it. That was stupid. I mean, in what world was he even a top five quarterback?

Stop. Stupid. A.J. Brown got one. Derek Henry got one. Justin Herber got one. Tyree Kiel got one. I think Tyree Kiel got one. I have a problem with the rest of those. Maybe Henry. Hill, I actually think, was on, I think I did a ballot for something, and I think he might have been fifth on mine. I don't think that's crazy. Gina Smith had one. That's a little silly, but I like it. Yeah, Tua got one. And Danny Kellington from Buffalo,

who I believe was the EMT, the medical personnel, who helped save DeMarie Hamlin's life, got one. I mean, and that's incredible what that man did, and it's way more important than football, but in no world should he have gotten an MVP vote. Let the record state. It's a little odd.

It's a little odd that he tied to the lower votes. And Justin Fields, they were all a little weird. Trevor Lawrence actually got a fourth and a fifth. That's surprise. This is that run, by the way, for Fields when it was just like, what is happening here? Starting in a blowout loss of the Cowboys where he went 17 of 23 with two touchdowns and then went eight for 60 on the ground with a score.

And it was like, wow, he filled up that box score. Then the following week, he threw three touchdown passes and then rushed 15 times for 178 yards and a touchdown. the following week, he threw two more touchdowns and a narrow loss to Detroit and ran 13 times for 147 yards and two scores. And then the following week against the Falcons, he got hurt. And you didn't really see that guy again. But imagine if we see some version of the guy that seemed to be taking flight in the second half of last season. I mean, he could be, if you want to talk about, I don't do Vegas stuff.

I'm not even allowed to. But you look at what Jalen Hertz did last year. Like Justin Fields in terms of a long shot for MVP, if everything fell into place, my own. Yep, because you'll have a team that, you know, had the worst record a year ago in a shaky NFC. They could contend for a wild card, coach of the year, assistant coach of the year, comeback players of the year, fill in the blank MVP candidate. You can see it. The funny thing is when he was coming out, like anyone that mentioned his running ability, it was essentially was like, well, that's just not who he is. like he's he's a deep ball thrower and I look at CJ and it's funny thinking back like people

were slammed it's like well he didn't show that you're you're kind of stereotyping because he's an athletic you know young black quarterback and it's true and now I look at CJ Stroud too and CJ Stroud will not be like Justin Fields he doesn't have that sort of talent but Ohio State essentially tells their quarterback don't do that don't risk getting hurt he's just you know his coach Ryan Day has talked about it since that like he tells their quarterbacks like don't risk it don't run. And so it makes me think about Stroud a little bit. He doesn't have nearly the athleticism of Fields,

but like no one saw this coming with Fields because he was told essentially just stay healthy and be a pocket quarterback at Ohio State just hit the open receivers. All right. There you go. Good stuff. We'll be back on Thursday with another app and hopefully I'll still be alive. It's very warm here. Did I mention that, Greg?

The temperatures are soaring here in Texas. I think it was, I think it was a little slice of life. People, you know, they don't just listen to us for the football takes. It's like, what's happening in their lives? Their relationships. That's the podcast. I'm, you know, I don't like to go willy-nilly and bring up weather. But when it gets to this level, when we are in a heat emergency, I'm just happy the power didn't go out.

And if it goes out before Thursday, it will be a classic Rosenthal Sessler joint. And I will listen to that if I'm still alive. This feels like a setup where you could text us out of nowhere. Well, the power did go out, guys. I'm shackled here. There's no way to technologically. I can't really do this from a tech angle. I hate to.

Well, that's not like something I do, but like, yeah, I was going to say. That's right out of the Sessler handbook right there. Dan's not as transparent. Mark drops little breadcrumbs when he's about to miss a show of possible things. That was projected. Oh, the lights are flickering. Weird. It's like, yeah, I just got a little bit.

of a little cough is popping up. We'll see how I feel in two days. I battled for that today. You did have a cough. You did the record. Right. But this complicates, if that was a breadcrumb, my power situation complement that complicates your situation of an out-clause here for later in the week.

So just something we're all going to have to track together. We'll track it. Yeah, suddenly it's a, it's a Greg and Walker duo power joint on Thursday. That'd be good. All right. Let's go. Thank you to everybody. For listening, wherever you are, stay cool.

Stay safe. Until next time. Eat the call.