NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - 2023 Week 12 Recap

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

In a room full of heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, and Marc Sessler recap Week 12 of the 2023 NFL season. The heroes start off by discussing the Eagles beating the Bills (03:41), the Jaguars outlasting the Texans (15:50), the Falcons beating the Saints (24:04) and the Steelers taking care of the Bengals (33:14). After the break, the guys run through Browns at Broncos (38:58), Buccaneers at Colts (47:20), Chiefs at Raiders (53:38) Patriots at Giants (01:01:01), Dolphins at Jets (01:08:48), Rams at Cardinals (01:17:27), Panthers at Titans (01:23:54), and finally Ravens at Chargers (01:32:21).  Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast. More entertaining than the NFC South. From the Chris Wesleying podcast studio, it's Around the NFL. I am Dan Hansis. And I have heroes here on the flagship program. Week 12 edition, Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler.

How are you guys? Feeling good. The season has begun. We're after things. Thanksgiving. That's what they started. Well, I would say we're more successful than the NFC South. Yes.

That's no idea. I think we're better. I think we could make plays in the NFC South personally. I think we could hit a couple holes, make a couple catches. Like, I can do what Kyle Pitts does, two for 12 every week. No problem. You know, it was a problem. For the first time since we've been doing this on a Sunday, this happened. Well, ladies and gentlemen, this is a first in my 20-something year broadcast.

casting career. We have an alarm going off in the studios of NFL Red Zone right now in our studios here in Englewood, California. We are being told we need to evacuate the building. We do not know the nature of the emergency. You can probably hear the alarm going right over the top of my right shoulder here, as it is something absolutely unprecedented for us. We have this game on the closest game, the Philadelphia and Buffalo game. Our control room needs to evacuate at this time. The studio in which I'm standing

needs to evacuate at this time. We are all good right now. We're remaining calm, but we are following protocols, as I'm sure you all would at your places of work. So to be continued, hopefully, although this game is in the fourth quarter, I'll come back and give you a live

update if... Thank you, Scott. That happened. It was a fire drill, and everybody should know that we're okay, we're safe. Wait, did he just suggest that we would be doing the same thing that others would be doing at their places of work if fire alarms went off in those places? Amazing. I thought it was good.

For team morale, we used to have fire alarms all the time over at our city location. Godforsaken building. I think it was built on an ancient Indian burial ground, the old place. An old Paul Center that had a... It was a weekly, and it was a nice time to see your coworkers. This was a little different because we were going out into the parking lot where the Chargers

and Raven Sunday night football game the fans were getting ready for it. And it smelled like old Qualcomm out there. The weed was a little bit of a funk in the air and then a mixture with the sausage and the peppers and the onions. And it's just cooking all around us reminded you of what we have sacrificed

to be here in the studio all these years. And yet. And everyone on their phone watching the game. And yet us going outside that building. Yeah. When there's is a 70,000 fans streaming in without our bodyguards also. Major security risk for us, but we were okay with that as well. And in the end, everything worked out. Still don't know what the issue was, but...

The issue feels mildly faked, me, although a fire truck did pull up at one point, which I think costs about $20,000 for the company when that happens. How about the old Trojan horse where the fire truck pulls up and then a bunch of, like, firefighters go in, but they're not really firefighters. One of those deals? Oh, that's a, sure, like a water gate operation. We're not safe right now. Fun.

Not so fun is all this happening during one of the games of the year. Eagles, bills were able to kind of stay with the game on our iPhones and whatnot. But when we got back in the building, it was chaos on that field with some dramatics. And yes, yet another Billy Victor. First and 10 at the 12. Hertz in the gun.

Swift goes in motion. Hertz on a quarterback draw. He's at the five. He's in. Touchdown. The Eagles win. Hurts does it again. Oh my God.

Hertz does it again. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? He's amazing. Yo, there's a party at the League of Financial Field. And the Eagles of 10 and 1. What a win. You're all invited.

There's a party here at Lincoln Financial Field. Oh, the bongos to the Eagles. A little bit of a bounce back from producer Eric after last week. Kind of noble of Eric. He's a Bill's fan in allowing bongoing himself. Bowing his head and saying, I dishonored the bongos last week. And to show you how important they are, I'm going to hand them out to the team that maybe just ended my team season. That's pretty good, producer Eric.

A job's bigger than sports, guys. A job's bigger than sports. There is the call from Eagles Radio. and it was dramatic indeed because the Eagles once again trailing at halftime find a way getting a 59-yard field goal from their gifted kicker. And then, Jake Elliott,

and then after giving up a field goal in overtime and a very near touchdown by the bills and a little bit of a miscommunication between Josh Allen and his receiver, Eagles take the ball, go right down the field, and yes, Jalen Hertz moves the Eagles, to 10 and 1 drama. What a game.

This is just one of the best games of the season and one of the most confounding teams I can think of because you give them all the credit in the world for finding a way to win each one of these games, but they're the rich man Steelers right now. They have been outgained by at least 100 yards. Not just outgained. Outgained by at least 100 yards in four straight games,

and they found a way in each one, and it's a heartbreaker for the bills because they got their best from Josh Allen, I thought. God mode Josh Allen, who had some setbacks in this game. I know he had the interception, but James Bradbury made an incredible play on that one play.

And what did he do to respond to that interception? He went on a go-ahead touchdown drive late in the fourth quarter. He answered Philly's couple of early touchdowns on the third quarter with his own touchdown drive. I don't want to hear anything about Josh Allen. He was very likely the best quarterback in the NFL today. And yet the Bill's defense, their best with all their injuries might just not be good enough because they were great in the first half.

They stymied Jalen Hertz to, you know, under 50 yards passing. And in the second half, when their defense or their offense was doing enough, at one point they'd give up touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, three and out, game-tying field goal, touchdown. and there was just no resistance at the end and you just felt like Sean McDermott is spinning all these wheels on the dial defensively and they weren't going to get any pressure

and you'd give Hertz all the credit in the world for being able to bounce back from that first half and know exactly what it did hurts. Wow, I mean, the first half by Allen and Buffalo's defense was it gave me signals and ideas that this was the game that Bill's fans were waiting for and it just did not complete. I think of little moments

like the James Cook drop on what would have been a very clear touchdown. And they got no points out of that drive. No points on that. There was the moment where Hassan Reddick absolutely launched Josh Allen to the ground, ripped his jersey. It looked like a horse collar. They don't get that call. Instead, they call Josh Allen for intentional grounding.

Then Jalen Carter blocks a bill's would-be field goal. It's these little moments where it's like against Philadelphia in a raucous downpour in Philly. You've got to almost be perfect. And they were perfect in so many ways. But then you let the Eagles back in in that second half. And it's like the Eagles are imperfect to look at. They are not the version of the Eagles we saw last year at this time in the regular season. But you can't let them back in because they win too many different ways.

They'll always make the play. The bills having winning time of possession of this game had over 40 minutes. Another reminder that the Ravens and Chargers game is coming up at 822 Eastern on NBC. thank you Jim the time of possession 40 minutes and 30 seconds in favor of the bills total plays 92 to 65 total yards 505 to 378 and yet here are the things that stand out to me everything mark just said an allen interception in this game an alan miscommunication with his receiver who was a Gabe davis on an optical illusion from where our camera viewpoint was in over overtime where it looked like it was going to be a walk-in touchdown and instead in a choice route, the wide receiver goes one way, Allen throws it the other way, and then it's the defense. And it's like two things I hated about the way, and I know Eric agrees, you have a three-point lead at the end of regulation. Why does it feel like to me that you're conceding

the tie at that point in the game? You're playing very safe. You're letting the Eagles move right down the field into field goal position. It's almost like you're attempting, we don't want to lose this game. And if we can get out of this with a tie, it's a win. And yes, of course, Elliot makes an amazing kick. So I can't kill the bills, but I just didn't like how easily they let him into field goal possession. And then in overtime, you get the field goal to go ahead. Okay, even after the miscommunication, make a play. You need to make a play. You need to recover a fumble. You need to have an interception. You need von Miller. Stop spinning around near the line a scrimmage, you need to get a sack and be the closer again.

They could not make a play, and that's why their season is in great peril now. It's on the brink. They have a buy, then they have the chiefs after that. You know, Greg, I know one thing drove you nuts, and I'm with you, that after Jake Elliott made that 59-yard field goal, the bills had time, a little bit of time where they could have at least taken a shot down field to try to return and answer on their own, and they don't, they don't even do anything. They had 20 seconds. You're the Buffalo Bills. your best chance to ever win the Super Bowl

was ended by a drive shorter than 20 seconds. Like you had a timeout. You also used one of your timeouts to supposedly ice Jake Elliott. You're not going to ice him. He's in the rain. It gave him more power. He may not have to make it if you didn't ice him. Let's hear that call, by the way, from Merrill Reese.

Jake Elliott, in the rain in late November in Philadelphia. I mean, these kickers are better than ever. And the kickers club is going to be hopping tonight for Jake Elliot, let's hear that call. He swings the leg with the same speed, whether it's an extra point or a 60-yarder. Let's see what he does here. Hold your breath.

Ball is spotted. The kick is away. And the kick is, it's going over time. He is amazing. He is amazing. What a kicker. That's one of the all-time kicks.

I mean, it's not going to the top, you know, Vinatari's one in the snow and regulation against the Raiders, but that is, since we've been doing this show, one of the most impressive kicks I've seen. To do it in that spot and also have the knowledge that on the other side of the ball is Tyler Bass, who's, you know, a good kicker. I would say a top 10 kicker, usually. Very good. Has a kick blocked in this rain, hooks a kick in this rain. And I'm thinking, man, this is tough conditions to be kicking in. And Elliot pipes it from 59. It would have been good from 60.

And it just, like, so many one plays would have changed the result potentially of this game. And you can always go back and do that. But ultimately, like, the Eagles best players made huge plays what it mattered. And Jake Elliott is one of those. Because for everything that you said, they had about them, you know, being a little too conservative. Like a play, Gregie. I hear you that Jalen Hertz was incredible. Like, multiple things can be true.

He made so many great plays in the second half of this game after playing a little panic. in the first half, including that 3rd and 15 throw, where Zakias made a great play to catch that touchdown. All right. But the reality is, if Elliot doesn't hit that 59-yarder, the last sequence from the Eagles was, you know, one of their best players, Kelsey having a penalty, hurts them actually making pretty good pressure

and hurts getting rid of the ball, almost fumbling it, but he got rid of the ball first and 15, then they run the ball, kind of waste some time. Then another penalty on Kelsey, and then age, Jay Brown catches a ball that almost was a fumble, incomplete on third down. Right call. Right.

Right call. But like things could have changed. And if he catches that, they would have had a fire drill to have to try to kick that thing. And they're third and fourth and 17 there because they didn't execute offensively. But that's what the Seagull's team is about. Even though the defense was not good on this day, they made just enough plays to. I was referring, Greg, though, to. So the point getting there.

Once it got to the other side of the 50, okay, then they, why? It just didn't seem aggressive enough. You're right. They were trying to take time off the clock and it didn't work. At one point though, the bills were almost perfect on third and long. It was like they kept getting out of jam, getting into jams and getting out of them too. And it really came down to just like a handful of plays in this thing.

I mean, it's like it looked in the first half to me like the rain and the terrible weather was affecting one team and not the other. And that was like I was surprised that that was Philadelphia that it was affecting. and then they come climbing back into it. Yeah, there were a couple of miscommunications too. There was another throw that Allen's receiver sold them out. They were close so many times. We should point out the Eagles got bad news before this game. Lane Johnson didn't suit up, which is extremely rare.

Then Fletcher Cox left in the middle of this game. Jalen Carter was going in and out. So they found a way despite those injuries. Yeah. And again, another reminder that the Ravens and Chargers game is coming up at 822 Eastern on NBC. Thank you. As a group,

we were equally mystified why that announcement was made, I say roughly 12 to 13 times. We surmised that it had something to do with the game running late and the agreement in place with the Sunday night football coverage on NBC. And yet, it didn't stop being annoying.

It does. I think it was annoying to Nance after a point, too. I just kept happening. You cannot, oh my God, you cannot lose that game, Buffalo. No, that's a killer. And yet, I have love for you, Bill's fans, because in the back of my mind, I'm like, Josh Allen's going to win this game.

He's playing so great. But somehow they find a way. They're an organization. They're one of those teams, Starcross teams. They always seem to find a way in the wrong way. Think of how high the pressure is dialed up when they come out of their by with Kansas City and Dallas in back-to-back games. They had to have this game. I think their season's over.

I don't think it's over because I think we saw tonight, you know, how good they, They can be offensively, and I think they can be better defensively than this. They didn't close the game, but I do agree that the specter of both these teams' schedule is hanging over this game because Philly's got San Francisco in Dallas next. And if they had lost this game, it would have felt like, oh, wow, suddenly the Eagles are actually in a little bit of trouble, but they just don't let that happen. It's amazing. And they get a little lucky.

Had to have it. Miss field goals on the other side is a little lucky, them making a mistake offensively. He's a little lucky. All right. Here we go. Save that because on NFL plus tomorrow, Greg, we're going to talk this game as well, Bill Ziegles.

We'll just start loading up. We'll say all different things tomorrow. All right. Let's head to another great ending. This one in Houston. From the left hash from 58 yards away, Matt Amandola. Drill it, Maddie.

Johnson puts it down. There's the kick. The 58-yard field goal. is it hits the crossbar it is no good it hit the crossbar and came back the field goal is no good

and the Jags take over it'll take a knee one time wow a great call by Frank Frangy W OkV it was that close for Amandol and the Texans but it is the Jacksonville Jaguars who come out on top

24 to 21 in a matchup between two young star quarterbacks from the AFC South. It was Trevor Lawrence who had the big day here, 364 yards, added a touchdown. And I don't know if that's changed since the final, but out of nowhere, Greg, the Jags were the number one seat in the AFC after this win. Is that still where they stand? That is not where they stand by tiebreaker because of the Chiefs.

But it's a three-way tie as we're taping, but a three-way tie, really. there you go. Chiefs in Miami. And this game had had everything. It had what felt like almost a clenching win here for the AFC South for the Jaguars. Going up two with five to play is massive. The quarterback play for the most part was fantastic. There was some really questionable play calls by both sides. Just ones that didn't work out. Doug Peterson going for an all or nothing touchdown on the last play of the first half that didn't work out. The Texans with some very strange short yardage, you know, QB calls in shotgun with no chance of running the ball, explosive plays. But when the Jaguars got the ball there at the end of this game, like, or rather when the Texans had the ball late in this game and they're driving, it's 1 18 left. And C.J. Stroud has the ball and he's on the 37-yard line of the Jaguars. I'm thinking, well, this is overtime or it's a touchdown.

what's going to happen. And what happened was what's happened in a lot of Jaguars games this season. Josh Allen happened. The other Josh Allen. Both Josh Allen's with fantastic days. This one can celebrate, though. He gets the split sack on the first play, and he had so many big plays in this game,

two and a half sacks that puts him in a long yardage situation. They have a couple incompletions, and then they have to go for this long field goal. And it just felt like C.J. Stroud was in like, I'm going to go back there and make a play mode. And they had a lot of plays go. against him. It was a terrible officiating game, but he couldn't make the plays

ultimately on those two long-yarded situations. They don't get it. And the Jaguars are probably going to be your AFC South champions. And their defense is one of the unproductive surprises of the entire campaign. And I mean, Josh Allen seems to do this all the time. And Stroud has been

a masterful quarterback late in games with his game-winning drives. And it's like, I was watching this with you. I had the feeling like, oh, they're not going to be denied. And like something about the Texans feel inevitable with Stroud and instead, like their defense, Jacksonville's defense, completely stood up and did his job. One of those games where like C.J. Stroud hit a 58 yard or early to Tank Dell that was called back on a totally bogus illegal shift. That throw was insane. Totally insane. And it reminded me of the touchdown he

had to Dell a week ago. And it just started like a cavalcade of bad calls. There was a holding. They he totally missed a defensive holding call on a Trevor Lawrence interception. And then there were multiple PIs on the Texans that kept drives going for Jacksonville and some no calls late in this game that were just insane. And it was distracting.

And it was annoying because, like, you just wanted to enjoy this game. And I did think maybe Stroud because he's hit so many of those plays lately and you can't fault him at all. But it was just like, I'm going to hold the ball forever and try to make a play mode.

There wasn't as many plays in rhythm. his 3.8 time to throw was the longest by any quarterback all season in a game. And it worked a number of times. He was 26 for 36 for 304, but they didn't quite finish their drives. That's why they only finished with 12 points. I mean, I wouldn't totally concede. They split their head-to-head matchups, right? So we have that a two-game lead with, what, six to play?

Where are we had now? One, two, three, four, five. Yeah, six to play. So they have a shot, obviously, the Texans still take this division. I don't trust the Jags still. however I think we should point out because we did have some conversations about Lawrence that

this is around the time last year remember this is when the games count after Thanksgiving where he got really hot and he helped carry that team and they even made noise in the postseason so keep an eye on what Lawrence does here he has six touchdowns in the last two weeks now maybe it's

his turn to get a little shine here in the division and what's been kind of a CJ Stroud story this year he's been the story I mean there is a huge matchup looming next week between the Broncos and Texans, but I kind of like the Texans schedule in general. They've got the Jets and the Titans after that. I think they're like absolutely wild card worthy and some weird stuff is happening in the AFC in general, but we'll see about the division. Their total lack of a threat of running killed them in this game. They like refused to

run it on third and one, fourth and one. Singletary got most of the snaps even though Damien Pierce was back, but they combined for 32 yards on 11 carries. CJ Stroud was their leading rusher, also at a rushing touchdown. Like, they are a little limited, and there were moments in this game. I thought Lawrence played a good game, but I thought it was a great game plan by the Jaguars, because there were wide open receivers multiple times kind of on bus, just on like swing passes. Their tight end rumbled for a 47-yard play. like Kirk was wide open right before the half for a 57-yard play.

Lawrence's like completion percentage over expected was actually like a negative 3.6 in this game. I think he played well because in the end like Ridley dropped a long touchout. In the end, they went outside and they went deep. And that's what I've been asking them to do all year. And they did it with success. So I can't fault them. But I think it was just a good aggressive game playing by the Jaguars. Trevor Lawrence, C.J. Stroud, Anthony Richardson,

who obviously had a promising rookie season cut short by injury. there's some good young talent in this division and Trevor Lawrence doesn't like it. I want the teams in our division to be as bad as possible. So no, I'm not, that's how I see it. And the way they're playing, it's exciting. Yes, there's going to be some, I'm sure, some great matchups down the road. And CJ's playing, he's playing lights out. He's doing a great job.

I mean, to be a rookie and to play how he is. I got a lot of respect for him. I know how hard it is. You know, I've been in that position. So he's doing a great job. And it's going to be fun for years to come, hopefully. so but no i mean i wouldn't prefer that i'd prefer i'd prefer if you know guy the guys in our division didn't have good quarterbacks and be better for us but um you know what i like about him like uh

you got these quarterbacks coming out in like four thousand dollar three piece suits he's like in a dented hoodie and like an orange hat with his like long hair hanging out sort of a bro that made me think of him saying i prefer that the the division sucks um i don't know if you guys caught it which i agree i'd be the same with you i don't know if you caught alex smith on the esbian this morning ethering everyone at the dais. They were having a conversation about Tom Brady's comments that the league feels watered down and the play is not at a high level. And Alex Smith was like, whoa, whoa, stop the clocks here.

Tom, you played in the AFC East. And that is that was a terrible division your entire career. And then it's like, oh, there's Rex Ryan on the dais. There's Teddy Bruske. There's Randy Moss. And they're all like, uh, I'm on a homina, but good for you, Alex Smith. I like that he said that. I mean, I think Tom Brady's overall point is well-conceived.

As is Alex Smith. Yeah, but it's also the most cliche thing, like lazy thing for an old ex-player player that's really not paying that close attention to the game to say. And Alex Smith is lazy too because the Patriots, I love throughout this one. I had a higher winning percentage against the rest of the league than they did in their own division throughout their run. How about that? That sounds like a Greg fact.

Can we check that one? You know, some of these willy-nilly facts. are thrown out lately. It's true. His winning percentage was higher outside the AFCs? They were both were extremely high.

It was like 660, whatever it was. They were basically the same, but they were slightly better. Go on a day to dive on that one, Robert. They were slightly better outside the division. You know, those dolphins gave him trouble. Games down insane. They dominated everyone was the point.

It's not like anyone outside the division was doing any better. Whatever. All right. Next. Rasid in motion. Here's Carr now, wants to throw.

intercepted Jesse Bates he's got greengrass 40 50 40 30 20 strided out Jesse touchdown Atlanta and New Orleans commits their first red zone turnover of the year and it wouldn't be their last on Sunday the call there West Durham WZGC Good call. Derrick Carr threw a pick six. Tassum Hill later lost a fumble at the 10-yard line. And the Falcons opportunistically on defense keep themselves in the game on the same day that Desmond Ritter was doing his usual high wire act that included falling off a few times. But in the end, a Ritter touchdown pass to Bijan Robinson

gave Atlanta breathing room and they held on for a 2415 win over the Saints, a win that puts the Falcons into a tie in first place with the Saints at five and six. That tells you a lot about what you need to know about the NFC South. It's not good. The football in this game was not very good, but it was fun and sloppy. And ultimately you could sense the tension and the bad blood between these teams, which is famous. This was a game though that will get the people in New Orleans fired up because, it was the ultimate

saint'sy game on offense. Yeah, I mean, this is your concern about the Derek Carr experience in general, because you're going to get some highs, he's a tough player, but the lows are going to cost you. They were 0 for five in the red zone today in general, and I guess from a falcons angle,

you know, we've waited for a game like this, which seems to be more of the blueprint that they were hoping for with 228 yards on the ground, Bijon Robinson running all over the place. But the problem I think we have enough evidence to suggest and tell us that Desmond Ritter is just

going to keep costing you one way or another and their record is exactly who they are right now. Yeah. I mean you have to Arthur Smith has been under fire for this whole season and I don't think that's going to change after this game but they did seem to finally

understand a few things making sure to get Bijan the ball who went over 100 total yards and had two touchdowns in this game. It needs to drive through him. Enough of this silly business about oh we want to keep them fresh. It's late November. It's time. They also kind of de-emphasized Tyler Alger. They gave Cordrell Patterson some work. And they found a nice balance because Patterson did some work in this game. Bijan made his plays. And then when it was time to close out the game

in the fourth quarter, it was Alger who had some tough runs that helped chew out, chew up the clock and take this thing home. So there is something to be said for Atlanta's ability to make those stops because it was a crazy those stops in the red zone because the Saints moved the ball pretty well in this game. In fact, I believe they punted once. 444 total yards. I mean, the Falcons even does not been playing well in general.

So they were kind of going up and down the field until they got into the red zone. And I guess on the subject, not accusing you guys of this, but on the subject of laziness, I think it's very easy to just point a car and be like, he's the reason. But then you watch the games

and you see what a team effort it is. It's Rahid Shaheed dropping a ball at the goal line. Its car obviously throwing a bad pick six to Jesse Bates. And then it's Tayson Hill trying too hard to get extra yardage and him fumbling. It's penalties along the offensive line that are pushing them out of the zone. And all these things are coming together and making a vicious stew of this team that is just not putting it together.

And yes, you're going to hear more, I would imagine about James Winston potentially coming in. But I guess my point is there's more guys that aren't playing sound football on this offense. Here's Dennis Allen on his quarterback. Some good and some bad, you know. You know, obviously I've got to go back and look at the interception to see exactly what happened on that. Look, I knew Bates was a really good player. And it's not the first time he's made it played like that.

So I thought there were some plays that Derek made. And I think there were some plays that, you know, we'd like to have back. And I agree with that assessment. And you could, and it's, it's fair that Carr needs to be better. And maybe this is just who he is. But it's a very frustrating watch. Well, his defense is a total disappointment. The only difference with the Falcons running attack today,

it's not like they gave it more to Bajan, really, or anything. It's just like they were good at it. They've been bad at it all year. They haven't been getting a consistent push on their offensive line. They haven't been getting consistent yardage. And whoever was running the ball back there got it done. And so if you're getting pushed around defensively, that's not what Dennis Allen wants. He blamed everything in the red zone on like penalties and in the turnovers today.

But they've been sloppy in the red zone all year. Alave got hurt in this game. He had a concussion right. And Shaheed left in this game. And they already put Latimore on Indoor. injured reserve right before the game this weekend and Thomas is on injured reserve. They were the healthiest team in the NFL going into a couple weeks ago. And now they're suddenly catching the injury bug at a bad time.

And it is, I think the fans are out for blood. I don't think anyone, people aren't thrilled with Derek Carr, but they're, I think the anger is mostly focused at Dennis Allen. Yeah, I think they wanted Dennis Allen gone since last season, essentially. They got there. I think it's interesting also that like, and again, I think Carr is one of those guys. Some guys struggle and it's seen globally like what's wrong with this offense. For some reason to me, sometimes I feel like he becomes just the guy everybody points to.

It's the eye test. But we don't. To me is the ultimate eye test guy that that like he's a, he's a frustrating watch. I agree with that. He frustrates me endlessly. But why don't we, why aren't we hearing things about their play calling in the red zone? Oh, I mean, certainly Pete Carmichael, yeah. Pete Carmichael didn't even want to be.

He gets a free pass because his quarterback is there a car. That's my point. He is a lightning rod. That's all I'm saying. Carr is too heavily scapegoated because other quarterbacks around the league right now are playing at no higher a level. But there's something about the Derek Carr like experience. I think a lot of it is early on his career.

You could shape his performances statistically to paint the picture of a better quarterback than he seems to be when you're watching him. Oh, and Carmichael's been taking, you know, locally, I don't know, I'm locked into the Saints coverage. But like, they're tired of everything about this team. But Car Michael takes a ton of heat. this year locally. He's not someone

who obviously is getting much attention nationally. Where do you live in New Orleans? In this division. I mean, podcasts are freely available. The websites are available. You check it out.

But you are going to be dragged through this because it's like none of this is going anywhere. They're both five and six. The bucks are what? Four wins on the season. And like this is going to be a crawl to the finish. And there's going to be more of these days and like you're not going to be.

let out of this. They're going to be in it to the end all these teams. One of them is going to be the fourth seed. I mean, that's at an outrage. Shout out to Honey Badger, who had two picks in this game and Jesse Bates, who I said, had the, we heard, had the pick six and also had the punch out on Taysam Hill. It's a two-point game at that point with the Saints

poised to take the lead. I believe it was the fourth quarter. And he punches that ball out, and that was as close as the Saints came in this game. So a huge win for the Falcons. Ritter. Let me just say Ritter also played um another ridderess game in that about deep into the second quarter saying oh wow he's having

his best game then he has a miserable red zone interception throws another bad pick and there's just it's just this like this yin and yang with him i don't think he's a at this point a playoff uh quarterback but you can understand why arthur smith is going to stick with him moving forward all right up next we roll on to cincinnati where the steelers got to face eight Joe Burrow free Cincinnati team desperate for a win. Bengals, third, and three, empty the set from their 32. They're two for eight on

third downs. They trail 13 to 7. Browning. Pinches the left receiver, big rush. He is crushed by T.J. Watt. What was that a freight train? No, it was number 90. Wow is about all you can

say. Was he blocked there? not by a not by a functioning human oh wow all right so tj watt with the crushing hit on jay browning one of several big plays by the pittsburgh defense and a 16 to 10 win over the bengals pittsburgh now seven and four and there they are the bengals without joe burrow five and six and winless in their division it all adds up to very bad news in cincey but for pittsburg mark progress another win and also the offense did something today that they had never done under the previous offensive coordinator of Matt Canada.

Yeah, it was a Joe Burrow free game for the Steelers, but a Matt Canada free game also for the Steelers. And in comes Mike Sullivan, long time NFL assistant to call the plays. And for the first time in 58 games, they cracked 400 yards.

Give some applause. Yes, they deserve it. They deserve it. We were like knee deep in the pandemic season when the last time you I mean, week two of 2020. How much must it suck?

Early. Showing legitimate empathy here for Matt Canada, who maybe wasn't great at his job in Pittsburgh. But he's probably a little down in the dump sitting on the couch watching the games

and did 58 games as their OC, I believe the number was. It never got 400 to immediately watch the team that just fired him crossed that threshold. You got to have some second thoughts about some decisions you've made. Yeah, like had it come three weeks from now,

it would feel and look. Yeah, it's like, well, they were due, like days after they... But immediately? He's probably also a little salty that like they had the hardest schedule in the league by far for offenses in terms of opposing defenses. And then they played the team that's giving up the most explosive plays in the league and can't stop anyone on the ground late in game.

Then again, the Steelers only scored 16 points, which is, you know, back there's a thing. Like, from a yardage standpoint, I thought Pickett played a pretty good game. You know, he's actually snapped the Steelers franchise record for context and consecutive passes without a interception. So he's not giving the ball away. There were more big shots down field. Pat Friermouth made a huge difference. He had 120 yards off nine catches. I mean, he was sort of the horror of the offense. Naji Harris, 99 yards and a touchdown. And then we play the T.J. Watt highlight because he does this every week. I mean, he ended two drives with, like, Titanic crushings of Jake Browning, who is just a guy.

Jake Browning was not helpless and he's not really entirely the reason that they're going to lose these games he can move a little bit on his feet he had one or two nice drives but it's like you're just watching the ghost and the husk of a team that we thought could go to the Super Bowl.

Yeah, the defensive issues have been there. You know, they're 0 and 4 in the division. They're 1 and 6 in the conference now. A lot of those games obviously, most of them are with Joe Burrow. They had issues, but it's depressing to feel like the Bengals at 5 and 6 are already basically out of our lives for the season.

Zach Taylor, you know, I've got to bring up Zach Taylor a little bit. Four and 20 in starts without Joe Burrow as Bengals said. Well, and it looked like it today. And part of it's Bill Belchek and starts without Tom Brady. Fair. Four and 150? Well, during those, during that stretch,

they were great, right? They went three and one with Jimmy G and G. And Djigoi percent. They went 11 and 5 with Matt Castle. During that stretch, they were great. They look doomed because if you're going to have Jake Browning The truth. You've got to be able to...

I'm just saying you can't go after Zach Taylor. Yes. In that way when... I'm just... My point is they're probably not going to be winning games. Of course they're going to suck without Joe Burrow. Yeah. Come on.

Well, yeah. I mean, you know, I predicted before the season that the Steelers would have 12 wins. If they accomplished that, it will be done in the most milk toast fashion possible because... Who knows? Maybe they'll get better. I mean, their defense is legit. I think it's encouraging what they did on offense, but I don't... I need to see it weeks in a row to buy into it.

I'm kind of, the division is a little bit of a bummer from where it was a month ago because Cleveland, and we'll talk about them later, is just kind of a mess now because of their quarterback position. The Bengals are more or less out of it, as we know. Pittsburgh is, even with this game, it's not, it's not like, it's like pinch me watching this offense. And then you have the Ravens, of course. They're hanging around, though, seven and four.

Yep. Anything else? I have something, guys, if we're going to go, and we've got a break up here. A little bit of housekeeping. Yes. You know, coming in in a phrase, Bill's got on another end of a bad loss here. The Cincinnati Zoo locked up the Eagles, guys. Oh, that's right.

That was a big win for the Cincinnati Zoo this week. It's late to bring that, but that's good, because he would have had a conspiracy theory if we forgot. I don't want to get too far down the road and then I forgot about that. I forgot about that. I forgot about that. I would have been doubly annoyed watching the end of that game. I got to say, the zoo with the zookeeper, Nick Wesleying, got the magic touch. What are they at now?

9 and 3? It's not over, Greg. Not at all. And think of these late win. He had the Eagles last week, too, with these late. I mean, we did eradicate the entire competition. So he's 1 and 0. It's an incredible start.

Cancel the whole competition. For Nick. All right. Let's take a break. And then we will bring in another Nick. All right. We are back. And it is time now for the Sunday Drive.

presented by the first ever Toyota Grand Highlander led us head to Denver, where the resurgent Broncos look to keep it up against the brownies. Second-ended goal from the two. Giovante Williams to the right of Russell, two receivers in each side of the set. He brings Mims in motion. He keeps it again, running to the right side. Wilson leaps into the end zone. Touchdown, Denver.

Three quarterback keeps on this drive, Wilson, from three. yards out. Are you kidding me? Are we looking at 34 year old Russell Wilson or 24 year old Russell Wilson? Oh, Dave Logan with a call. You didn't like that. Russ Wilson ran for a touchdown and threw a touchdown pass and that was kind of a vintage Russ throw later in the game, giving the Broncos the extra cushion in a 29 to 12 win over the Browns. Let's welcome in the pipe. Nick Shook and Nick, you had a Brown's team here that is struggling at the quarterback position and a Denver team that cannot stop winning all of a sudden. This is one of the more surprising developments of the season.

We are witnessing an absolute attitude shift in Denver, guys. This is a team that started one in five and got a, you know, 70 burger dropped on them by Miami. They look like a team that had no life. Sean Payton was a disaster. Russell Wilson was over the hill. And all of a sudden, they started winning some games. Keyed mostly by their defense, but now it's all coming into form. Now, if you look at the stats, you'll think, well, Russell didn't have to do that much.

We didn't have to do that much. I mean, the defense played really well for the most part. The ground game was fantastic against the NFL's scariest defense. And they put together a complimentary win that only further emphasized this turnaround that's happening in Denver right now. They're six and five. And frankly, if they play like this guys on a weekly basis and especially in the road where they haven't been as good as they've been at home, then we're talking about a Denver

Broncos team that's going to end up in the playoffs. That's how good. That's how strong they look right now. They play with an attitude. They out physical the Browns. Russell Wilson's got a nice string of games played together here. Everything's just starting to come together. It's really pretty. For the first time since 2015, the Broncos, they matter. And they play like they matter. It's fun. Yeah, this was a great coaching job by Sean Payton. They talked about coming into the game, wanting to remove Miles Garrett, who was ineffective in this game. and then could not lift his left arm for the most of the second half. Oh, no.

See what's going on there. It did not look good to me. They came in the Browns without Denzel Ward, who I think is a huge part of this Jim Schwartz defense. No Anthony Walker. In Denver, you know, showing zero fear about the Cleveland Brown's defense, ran the ball right up the gut of Cleveland's D. Like, from the start, they had 100 yards before the first half ended.

Wow. Russell, a lot of it, and the reason I think that you got that comment about Russell, Wilson looking like the old Russell Wilson is that the element of his game that's been missing in the earlier parts of this season and last year was like the mobility and the guy on the ground who can affect you and I thought he did a nice job against Cleveland on the ground today and they you know if you're Cleveland you're going into the game with Dorian Thompson Robinson a rookie who's still learning on the job he gets absolutely destroyed by Baron Browning he was you know lights out a concussion time bloody lip removed from the game PJ Walker comes in

And for both of these quarterbacks, I thought that, Shook, tell me if you thought Kevin Stefansky did some weird stuff in this game. They got way too cute. They didn't stick with what was working, which I thought they ran the ball pretty well early. They got away from it to all these sort of trick plays, one that cost them dearly on a terrible fumble. And you got like how many drops in this game and how many bad David DiJoku plays that put their quarterbacks into a terrible situation?

Because they were hanging around until the floor fell out late. Yeah, they actually had a chance to put together a comeback before. DTR got hurt. And even after he got knocked out of the game, that's where the two sides of Kevin's DeFancy's coin really came into play. Because, you know, Greg has talked about this and I totally agree that Kevin Cefancy has done a great job of coaching them in certain situations and getting guys open, especially with everything they're dealing with a quarterback. But there's been many other instances of which he's tried to be the smartest guy in the room and he's gotten way too cute. So as soon as DTR comes out of this game at the start of the fourth quarter,

you got PJ Walker back there, who by the way, is not an NFL quarterback. We can all agree on that at this point. And they run a reverse. They run a reverse that starts with Elijah Moore in the backfield. He tosses the ball to Pierre Strong, who lined up as a receiver, and he's a running back. In case, for those who don't know, he's a running back. And he did not catch that pitch. It was a fumble. Denver goes down, scores. It's a backbreaking touchdown. And the Browns go from being in a position where they're winning the game on the ground and they're really close to tying it up or taking the league because they were only down five points at that at that moment. So suddenly being completely out of it, because you know that PJ Walker's not going to throw them

to a victory. And as soon as he got another opportunity, he was overwhelmed and overmatched. I would have blitzed the living daylights out of him, much like the Broncos. did creative pressure, just a great coaching job on both sides of the ball. They outschemed Jim Schwartz's defense. A lot of the runs were just excellently designed. They attacked the perimeter. They won the perimeter. The Browns missed those guys

on defense, no doubt. But they were just the better team, both in execution and in coaching. And Kevin Siffansky did himself zero favors with trying to be the smartest guy in the room in certain situations. Here would be, because we're seeing it at the metal ends right now too. My concern about the Browns, Mark, do you agree

that as good as the defense is, if If the offense is going to be stuck in mud, it's going to be a lot of three and out or just bad field position and you're going to continue to put the D into difficult situations and eventually the damn cracks when you keep doing that. The offense needs to be more, giving them more right now. Yeah, it reminds me of the loss to Baltimore. It's the worst possible situation for Cleveland. If this is what it is going forward.

And I think you get to a point where the injuries have mounted. Like I mentioned, no Denzel, Warden will see what happens with him. Amari Cooper went out of this game. I'm really concerned to hear about what happened to Miles Garrett. You don't have Nick Chubb. You lost your starting quarterback. You lost Jack Conklin. Jedrick Wills, Marquis Goodwin, Rodney McLeod,

your second quarterback, Jacob Phillips, Jaquim Grant, and we'll see what happens with the rest of these guys. It's like you're just down to the point where too many positions are vulnerable, and you can't just rely on defense to continue to stack wins here. Right. And to your point, like, teams will see that. And a couple times that the Brown's defense hasn't looked great, it's because of the run defense.

I'm not going to put them giving up 100 yards rushing in the first half on their quarterback. So it's so hard for a defense to be that dominant every single week. You're going to need some weeks for your offense to pick them up. And I can't expect the Broncos defense to stay this good because it's just a little crazy. But since that Jets game, that was where I know they lost the next week on Thursday night football to the Chiefs, but that game was actually reasonably close. They kind of bottomed out in that Jeff's game where they gave up 31. points.

They've given averaged 16.5 points allowed. That's over a six-game stretch here. And they've forced, let's count them up. They had 12 turnovers and three games coming to this week. So that's 15 turnovers they've forced in the last four weeks. That's pretty outrageous. Like, yeah, Sean Payton's doing a great job and they're limiting mistakes and they're really playing complimentary.

But Vance Joseph's like, got this group playing great. It's pretty crazy. We, uh, six weeks ago, I think it was, worked the Denver Broncos. who have now won five games in a row. So keep an eye on, again, the bottom of these. Is that a record for us? Like for someone to like, I don't, I don't actually think they are in the playoffs as of today just because of tiebreakers. Right.

Like that for the quickest for a team to get back. It's a problem position that after getting forward. Immediately after. But you got to, you got to give them credit because like Nick said, and we got to move on. But to start the season the way they did and that with that historic 70 burger, like to now be on a five game win, streak and be right in the mix credit to everyone involved there and let's see if they keep it up and that was the sunday drive presented by toyota let's go places learn more at toyota.com slash grand highlander speaking of teams on a streak remember we the cults we're like oh the

colts are back they're in that number seven spot right now they're still around and not only they still around they are very much uh in playoff contention to indy we go shotgun stat for mayfield in the pocket. A ball is stripped. The ball is out. Around the 38-yard line. No signal yet. Colts ball!

It's Colts ball with the recovery by Dio at Dangbo. And a strip sack by Sampson, Abacom. Weird. Someone's been drinking. Abucom. Ebacom. He actually, like, gets home tonight from the flight. His wife's like, oh, how was the game?

Abacom. What would you like for dinner? Abacom. Abacom. Abacon. Yes. That was Matt Taylor. but he was an Ebicon guy.

Ebacom. Evacom guy is Rick Van Tury, I believe. Oh, ex-coach. Epacom. Yes, it was another win for the Colts. Jonathan Taylor, two touchdowns, and the defense comes up with a late turnover in a 27-20 win over the Bucks.

So, yes, that's three wins in a row for Indy. now six and five, sure. Yeah, you know, Gardner Minchu doesn't give you a high ceiling, right? But the most important thing that he should do is not hurt you. And he threw a pick today, but he also had a rushing touchdown. And he did what he's done for most of these games, which is key completions in certain situations, struggles on third down, but keeps them afloat.

And in this type of matchup, it was the defense's game to win. And boy, did they win it. They picked off Baker Mayfield after he came back from an early injury. Ronnie Harrison, making his Colts debut, who gets a pick of his former Brown's teammate. They turned that into a touchdown. They sack Baker a number of times.

They pressure him 14 times. They get after him. And even after Rashad White ran 15 times for 100 yards, the Buccaneers still couldn't piece together enough consistent offensive production to get back into this game. Now, credit to them, they did make it interesting at the end. That's what led to that strip sack and repeated mention of Samson, Ebecom.

But it had to come down to that for them to even have that opportunity because they weren't able to get out of their own way. And it's another loss that is all too familiar for Buccaneers fans right now. You get both sides. Like I said, you get both sides of the Kevin Cefansky's coin. You get both sides of the Baker Mayfield coin, which is gritty, tough. Going to go all the way to the end and give you everything he's got. But he's also going to make a few errors.

And if they're in crucial spots, they'll probably lose you a game. And that's definitely what happened today. Yeah, we talked about Derek Carr being a frustrating watch far too often. But I think Mayfield fits into the same sort of category where you got like the heightened good of him today. Because every one of these games, he'll like rumble for a first down. on third and long, and it's kind of like it jazzes up the team, and you can see what you like about him, and it'll convert a couple

big throws to Godwin or Evans, but then it's the killer turnover, and it's like, I was watching this out of the corner my eye, and you got all aspects of Baker Mayfield today, and that's why they're, you know, largely the record they are right now, and untrustworthy, but he's not a terrible quarterback. It's just like he kind of reminds me

of the other version of Gardner Minchew a little bit. Yeah, I think when you were out, Mark, I had talked about, like, I enjoyed watching Baker this year in a way that's been different than past years. It feels like he's like in a nice spot and a little little under the radar and can these ups and downs of his career. But like you're saying, there's there's always going to be moments where he's, he's who he is, both good and bad. And I think it's gotten a beat and they've gotten a couple of wins out of it. They are, they are very similar players,

those two quarterbacks. No doubt about it. I mean, the bucks were three and one. It's, it's not been a good six, seven weeks here. No. And Devin White is kind of having the opposite contract year season of, let's say, what Antoine Winfield is on his own team. I think Winfield is an all-pro candidate. Devin White, every week you watch, you see him getting beat for big plays for touchdowns, a couple touchdowns in this game.

I think he missed Levanti David. And then on the other side, another free agent, Michael Pittman, 10 for 10-107. He's on pace for about 1,200 yards. Like, there's this argument, I think, in India, of like, how much do you pay him? Is he really a 1? It's like, it doesn't really matter.

Yeah, he's a top 20. whatever receiver in his prime he's going to get paid a lot of money like if you don't want to pay him someone else will pay him $23 million a year yeah but he's really good he's an interesting guy and almost like you got to make sure he goes to the right team for that here's the thing

he's surrounded by nothing he's had terrible quarterback situation and all he does is produced that's extremely valuable even if you're the 20th best ride receiver in the league like that's worth $20 million a year it doesn't matter if you're not a one yeah and you got to think about the that this is still Anthony Richardson's team

starting next season. You don't start stripping talent away from him. Yeah, that's a good point because I think that production comparison wise, the guy I think of comes top of mind is Robert Woods. Like Robert Woods is never going to be a number one, but he's consistent. He was consistent in L.A. for a long time before they moved on from him. You can get similar production from Michael Pittman with an upgraded

quarterback and Anthony Richardson returning. Colts fans should be pumped. They should really be pumped about the way this team is battling right now without that quarterback with Gardner Minshew and with the way this defense is playing. I'm not saying they're going to make the playoffs, but it's going to be an interesting season. And it's to set them up for a really optimistic off season, which is exactly what they need after what happened

last. They are literally sitting in that seven spot right now after, with all the tieback tiebreakers in there. And Shane Stuyken has proven, I think, to be a very valuable addition. Yeah, that play action, uh, seam ball on fourth and one in a key spot when the bucks were actually making, uh,

I mean, that took some wayvos, uh, to call that. And, uh, you know, Joe Mercy's happy. Like Shane Stuyken's taking all the attention away from his Twitter behavior. So it's a great weekend. called it. Yeah, Stike, and now that we're past Thanksgiving, the season doesn't start to like to Thanksgiving. He is a name to watch in the

coach of the year race, especially if you can get this team to the playoffs. Shooki, you have said it all. Thank you, my friend. Thank you. And one last shout out. Jonathan Taylor, watch out for him. He's starting to build upward. He's getting a little bit better. Two touchdowns today near 100 yards. Keep watching him.

All right. Another stellar appearance by Shook. Look, look. pipe oh oh yeah that's why you got to check out the youtube show all right oh yeah oh yeah full screen right there oh no the sound effects perhaps troubling but i enjoyed the overall uh scene thank you shook thanks guys uh let's keep rolling uh let's go to Vegas where the chiefs are looking to find a way to kind of get some momentum going and they did now it's third and five after having first and 20

Edwards Eilera is in as the third down back trying to get the call right here comes Watson in motion they're going to throw a crossing pattern caught rice 30 angling 25 up the sideline 15 inside the five touchdown Kansas City a 39 yard crossing pattern and then zooming up the sideline rashi rice hmm Mitch holt is with a call chief's radio and we mentioned rice in the lead up to this game that the chiefs desperately need somebody to become a real threat in that offense beyond Travis Kelsey and Rice did the thing on Sunday 8 for 107 and that touchdown and a 31 17 win over the Raiders and yes you might say oh beating the Raiders with a beat up Mason Crosby nothing to to you know you know organize a parade over and that's true and yet I watched this game

and it made me feel like the chiefs got to win here that they can really use as a springboard going forward, not just because that they won by two scores, but also how they did it. They fall behind 14-0-0 in this game, and they are absolutely asleep at the wheel. At one point in the second quarter, the Raiders have gained over 200 yards of offense, and the Chiefs have about 10. It was nine first downs to 1. It would have been 17-0 if Daniel Carson didn't shank. a 30-yard field goal.

And then they just kind of got back on track like the old chiefs. They put up a touchdown. Bing. Then bang, another touchdown. And crucially, boys, after halftime, where they have bizarrely struggled this year on offense,

they go right down the field their first possession for a touchdown and really seize control of the game, put the game away with that Rice touchdown late, and you get that win. You're eight and three. All things considered with all the hand-wringing, We did a ton of it on Sunday night last week. The Chiefs are in very good position to get where they want to be,

which is the number one seat in the April. And it was a concerning start, but I'm looking at what happened after the Raiders' second touchdown. And in terms of net yardage on the resulting drives, the Chief's defense, which was awesome for part of last week, gave up 13 yards, 11, 6. There was a field goal drive that 31, 7, and 9. So it's like they put the clamps on,

and it's like I still trust their defense week to week to be special. They've been great on that side in the secondary. I don't need to see anymore. It's the offense. I'm wondering how it evolves. And I think you saw a very clear shift in strategy today until deep garbage time, total targets for the Chiefs Wide Receivers. 10 for Rashi Rice.

You've been calling for that. We've been saying he's the guy. A combined four for everyone else. Now, obviously, it's not going to be like that in terms of the wide receivers. I'm not talking Kelsey. I'm not talking Pacheco, who both did their thing in the receiving game. In terms of the wide receivers, it was Rice for 10. 10 and then Watson and more combined for four.

And then garbage time he threw a couple around. He tried to give Marcus Valde Scantling one and it goes for a negative yard. That was his only target, which is notable because it was, of course, MVS, who dropped the go-ahead touchdown on Sunday out against the Eagles. He's the guy. You're taking him out of the mix, MVS and hopefully elevating. And yet, I think Isaiah Pichenko, I just like, I like him as a player. I like the way he runs the football.

And I thought notably in the red zone, if you, you know, Reed could sometimes just get past crazy and and they were hammering the ball into Pichanko inside the five not trying to generate easy touchdowns for Travis Kelsey. It was just like trusting their offensive line and Pichenko and that worked twice in this game. So there was a lot to positives here and a lot to build on on the Raider side of the ball. Just like we were talking about Jonathan Taylor is warming up. Josh Jacobs turned on the jets on a long 63 yard touchdown run in the second quarter it was kind of the beginning of the end for them offensively but it was just a reminder that he is really kind of back to the duty was last year when you watch him play finished with 110 his second 100 yard game in three weeks and max crosbie became the first player this season uh who was listed as doubtful there have been 67 guys listed as doubtful he plays in this game with a bad knee and it's a knee injury that i believe is going to require surgery so we're going to see how much longer you could gut it out but this guy is the face of the raiders and And as long as he's on the field, do you feel like they have a chance?

Let's see how much, how much longer he could stay on the field because you could tell he was hobbled. He did get a sack in this game, but he is not at 100%. That's hopeful about Josh Jacobs. And I wonder if you still saw an uptick in terms of like the whole overall Raiders experience with the coaching situation. I know, you know, results aside, this was a tough loss, but they're still hanging around.

They still matter. And I felt like they didn't matter a month ago at all. Yeah, I think it's 358 yards. Aiden O'Connell. I think he's pretty happy. I think Antonio Pierce has done a good job. There's a great, and this is the reason you love, Crosby as a player, where he

got kind of knocked. Someone collided with his leg. He goes down in a heap and he kind of peels himself off the turf. And again, you could tell he's gotten through it. And Pierce sends in a substitute for Crosby, and Crosby is like, I'm not coming out of the game.

And they had 12 men on the field because he refused to come out of the game. So Pierce had a call time out. to get Crosby off the field. And then you see Crosby just pissed off on the sideline and Pierce talking to him. And then you think to yourself, Josh McDaniels isn't able to have that conversation with Max Crosby.

Antonio Pierce, a guy that has been through the wars in a different way, Ken. So, yes, the Raiders arrow up in general compared to where they were with McDaniels, but also they came down to Earth here, especially on defense. You remember that doubtful used to,

it used to supposed to be about a 25% chance of playing. That was the idea of it. Right. So if he's one and, 67. He's the first one. I guess that's changed. I think now it means unlikely to play. I don't know if they still do the 25% thing.

If so, you know, we need an investigation here. We need more doubtful players to play. Bump it up to 25%. Get on that beat. That could be an offseason run of episodes. Maybe we do like a seven-part series. It could be like the, you know, Jordan Rodriguez one. We'll just do a seven-part series on doubtful. How do we churn through like June?

This is how. We could do a series on each of the designations. Probable. What does it really mean? It's like I saw a breaking news thing come across the screen on Friday. It was like, breaking news. Max Crosby will try to play something. I was like, well, I'm not surprised by that. Of course he's going to try.

It's Max Crosby. Can I offer a suggestion, Mark? Because probable, what does it really mean? Kind of sounds like another episode of this guy gets it. Well, you know, there's a lot of content coming out of that corner of the universe, but I can always be more. We are due for one. That would be nice. All right. Let's keep moving here.

There was a time where Patriots v. Giants evoked some of the greatest drama of football in the 21st century. I'm not referring to today's game, though. You should not be. The rookie is set from 35 to tie it. Snap is good.

Kick on its way. And over it. It's no good. He missed it wide left. Oh, or yes. I just. The wide left. So another rookie beats Bill Belichick. I said that Ryland had missed one from 35 earlier this year and he misses it again. Whoa, Gregie, Carl Banks, with the dagger there with Bob Papa on the call, Giants Radio.

Yeah, the rookie, Chad Ryland, who was drafted in the fourth round. Woo. One of many, many misses by Belichick in recent years. that was the difference in a 10-7 Giants win or wasn't Mark Sessler because of course this is a game that was hyped up as being the winner is really the loser when you talk about draft standing

but the Giants seem happy Tommy DeVito and his family seemed happy and the medal ends the fans went home happy Tommy DeVito was by far the most enjoyable aspect to one of the more unwatchable games I've ever sat through in our corporate offices but I will say before that kick Rag and I were talking, we're like,

don't you find a way to kind of miss this kick and stay in the contention for the first overall pick? You got to tell Ryland before the kick, you know, just hooked it. It's like the opposite of what Belichick told out of Vittieri all those years ago. If you miss this kick, you're gone when he was like a rookie. This time it's like, if you make this kick, you're gone.

And he shanked it. And he did his job. Judging by Belichick's reaction, I think this theory not too solid, I think he was very frustrated to see the kickery. He got ready. of Nick Folk for, who's having a great season. Speaking of Nick Folk, let's listen, I

might have asked Eric to pull some Zolak on this. Let's listen to the sentient power raid bottle. Snapsuit. Berger holds it. Riland kicks it. It clears the line. Airborne to the uprights. It's no good. It's no good. It hooks left with three seconds to go.

Another one who'd get dissected after this, had to get rid of Nick Folk, right? You can sir automatic. Wow. Ouch. By the way, Nick Folk hit another bomb today. you know, Nick Folk looks like he's about 55, but he can still kick at 55. And that was a decision that just so many, Greg, so many Belichick decisions. And like I earlier in the season, I was on the other side of it, Greg, where I thought, I think Belichick is probably going to be safe. But the way the games are playing out now with the farce of Mac Jones starting and getting benched after two interceptions. And then you bring in Bailey Zappy and then you're blowing games with the rookie kicker you didn't need to get. It all feels like. a clean start and I think Peter

King was on our buddy Kevin Clark's show this week and he's kind of put it out there that there's a vibe he was getting that Robert Kraft wants a kind of a younger thinking, more fresh-minded

approach to the organization and none of that seems to connect with the 70-something Belichick no and you wonder or I wonder whether that connects with like Gerard Mayo who is younger and I don't know is he going to bring a different approach or not, to watch like these, to watch Mac Jones

in this game just completely not be there, he's collapsed in on himself, almost unlike any quarterback I've ever seen that's shown a high level of play at one point. I mean, this was a guy who numbers wise was like 11th and PFF, 12th in EPA as a rookie, like really showed it.

It was a solid starting quarterback as a rookie to regress this far where he was like playing in a way that was begging to be benched almost at every moment, like backing away from from throws, like backing away from pressure that wasn't there. It is wild to see. It is wild that he got

like the opportunity to even start this game. There was one play where they didn't let him throw the ball in third, Nate, and they handed off to Zeke. It was just a total give-up play. But actually they blocked it perfectly, and Zeke had a prairie to run through any running back picks up that third down. And then Zeke's like chugging to the

sideline, and they tackle him. And I was just like, another weird move. This is the Patriots in 2020. It's total mismanagement. I can't think of a quarterback that's sort of been a like falling off a cliff like Mack Jones has from where he was, you know, midway through his rookie season. But terrible coaching around him last year. It's

happening all over again. I think it matters when you have a starting quarterback and you're sending out messages through the press all week that you're going to, everyone might play. Right. What's happening with it? And it's like he's deserved, you know, the chance to be demoted because he's played terribly today and he's not seeing the field. It threw terrible interceptions.

Zappi came in and through one, too. It's like the Giants defense in, inside of this effort played really well. And they've had these games where Wink Martindale's defense has shown a lot of promise. It's like, I don't know if you're the Giants, what you're building for. But like the Tommy DeVito experience in reverse on the flip side shows me that Brian Dable can coach quarterbacks. Like he looked functional again today.

It wasn't perfect. It was a terrible range just like in Philadelphia. But a guy like Jalen Hyatt bailed him out and had a lot of big plays. Those are nice throws though. They were. He's out playing Mac Jones and Zach Wilson. He looked much better. You know what?

This is like the second. He took six sacks from. the Patriots again today. It keeps getting, you know, shredded, but he's making plays outside of it. And I give them credit for a team that has not given up on their coach. Two QB thoughts from this game. One, Tommy DeVito has this window and moment in time where he will be the starting quarterback of the Giants. And it's not going to happen after this year because they're going to go in a new direction or they're going to go back to Daniel Jones more than likely.

But in this moment, there's Jersey boy. drafted player that has he will be talked about trust me someone that grew up in this area he'll be talked about 25 years from now is that oh sometimes as a punchline sometimes as reminiscing like wasn't that crazy that this guy was our quarterback a guy that you would expect being in section 314 was actually our qb just kind of a fun little thing and an otherwise dreary season for the giants and mac jones i've never been the biggest fan of him but i also think he could he could be a a somewhat successful system quarterback with the right setup, I think they broke him.

I think there's so much more than just him at play here and we know how they let him down last year. But you're right, what you said about, like, the way they've talked about him in the media and their quarterback situation, don't instill any, don't empower him in any way. And he's clearly playing like a young quarterback who doesn't believe in himself and the scheme

and the team that he played. Like, where's Bill O'Brien and all this? Right. it hasn't improved getting rid of Patricia. Hunter Henry said he didn't know who the starter was until they ran out there. Belichick insisted he told Mack Jones at some point before they got on the plane,

but the team didn't seem to know. The most newsworthy coaching report from this game that was before it by Jay Glazer. That was quite a report that he expected a mutual parting of ways between Brian Daible and Wink Martindale possibly before the end of the season. Daibble, of course, was asked about and said that was, you know, the only thing we argue about

is like, who gets the last slice of piece? But it was really pointed that, like, he gave Wink Martindale the game ball after this game. So it has to be the first ever game ball issued in the history of the NFL in response to a Jay Glazer report. What's going on? Like, there's no way Wink Martindale gets that game ball unless that report gets out there.

And I, I 100% trust Jay Glazer that he's got this thing. As a fellow insider, I just got to say, I got to respect what Jay was able to do. Right, exactly. Just that there's tension. They're just inside the bill. They're bickering at each other. Whatever it is.

All right. Let's take a break. And then we will finish out this Sunday slate. All right. Welcome back. Of course, you had the three Thanksgiving games. And you can check out the podcast previous to this one for our reaction to those games. There was for the first time a Black Friday game.

It was a Black Friday. Indeed, at least before my team, to the Meadowlands we go. Boyle, back to throw, looking four-man rush. They're chasing him down, gets it off toward the end zone, and it is picked off. Oh, this is going to get interesting here. And it's calling at the 20. He might run this one. He's cutting back inside, 40 of New York, the 25-20 to the right 10-5 touchdown.

He tested out of him back. What a play. But how loud it is. What a plate. Jimmy Cephalo or Cephalo? Cephalo. Jimmy Cephalo with the call with Joe Rose. I think it was Rose who pointed out.

This could be interesting. Yes, the Hail Mary for the Jets at the end of the half set up by a two interception. Tim Boyle throws it up for grabs. It gets intercepted. And then run back. 99 yards. Just the latest indignity for the New York Jets and the latest win for the Miami Dolphins

who cruise on Black Friday to a 3413 win. So the Dolphins, another team at 8 and 3. And in this game, it was like the other Thursday games, it was not very competitive. There was two teams going in very different directions. Yeah, I think it was the end of the third quarter. I wrote down the stats in the box score that the dolphins had had 61 plays. The Jets had had 22.

The dolphins had 335 yards. The Jets had had 50. That says, you know, complete domination, pretty much on both sides of the ball. You know, they would have had 17 points in their first three drives the Dolphins if Tyrie Killed didn't drop a pass in the end zone. And then once the defense does start playing well, they get a couple turnovers on Tua, including one with two seconds left to set up. that Hail Mary, that's what happens. And you just felt for everyone there, but I guess he didn't feel,

I guess there were a lot of Dolphins fair. Then good job by the dolphins now traveling. Well, it's also Jets fans who aren't going to watch as garbage and are selling their tickets because it's outrageous. Welcome to Jet Life Stadium. It's just, we don't need it, not today.

It's just like, why does it have to be like this? Why can't we just lose like regular teams? Why do we need the Hail Mary pick six? To add to all the other like frustrations being a fan of this team for the game to kind of be remembered this way and it's just brutal and Tim Boyle is obviously not the answer and just like Zach Wilson is not the answer but like like I said last week with this Jets team and this regime you get what you deserve

and they set themselves up for this and they ignored all the warning signs and now the chickens have come home to roost and it blows my mind as let's you know I want to hear from Robert Sala here. Robert Sala now, and we talked about his stammering reply to Michael K a few weeks back when asked about Zach Wilson and, you know, his starting job. Now he's being asked about Nathaniel Hackett, which is obviously a thorny issue because he's Aaron Rogers's boy and everything is about Aaron Rogers with his team. And once again, the coach is revealed to be powerless, essentially. I'd be a really long answer, an answer for another day, I guess. but, you know, when you look at it all, and again, it's a little bit of everything,

whether the calls could be better, whether the execution can be better, whether our one-on-one battles can be better, you know, it's taking advantage of the situations we have. When we get them, do I think play caller will fix that? I don't know. I mean, hold on. So, you cannot. you cannot go into next season because this season is essentially it is over for the Jets and it's become poisoned in every possible way.

The Nathaniel Hackett question is a fair question. I think one thing when I'm watching the Jets, because there's got to be a schism in that building if there's a schism in the Giants building, they didn't have a single drive, go for over 16 yards until the fourth quarter. I mean, it's absurd. And what that tells me a little bit is that we're watching other teams around the league that flexibly change what they do on offense depending on what's happening at quarterback,

what's happening in other positions. Good coaches find flexible, creative ways out of jams. And Nathaniel Hackett, I don't know how else to put it on. He's organizing the weekly call sheet, the weekly attack, the way they're going to do things, has shown zero ability to recreate anything they're doing at all. Tim Boyle's only positive quality is that he's not Zach Wilson. Yeah, the obvious move would be to remove the play caller,

but again, it's all tied to Rogers. and then you see the report on Sunday, and I just don't want to even, we don't need to dwell too much on this team because it's all gross and ugly. But the Ian report this morning that Aaron Rogers is ramping up his rehab. He could return in some form to practice in the next week,

and he's still targeting potentially Christmas Eve. What are we doing? Like, who is in charge? Because I know it's not the head coach, because I listen to him, and every week he gets a little more powerless. And I don't think that, GM's in charge either. I think it is the injured quarterback that's turning 40 that brought in all

these bums from Greenway along with him and and they need to have a, you know, Jesus needs to take the wheel of this team and before this turns into as embarrassing a fiasco as anything else previously because right now I am teetering in my belief that even with healthy Aaron Rogers that this team right now is set up in terms of coaching and management to ever come out of the darkness. as dark as it could be right now. Oh, yeah. Sal is 15 and 30. If it continues on this path, I don't think it should be surprising

if both he and Joe Douglas lose their jobs and they blow up in the whole thing. But it depends a little bit on how the rest of it goes. But Lazard was a healthy scratch. It guaranteed $11 million. I guaranteed more than that for this game, which is wild. To flip to the dolphins, they lost Jalen Phillips, who to me, along with Jalen Ramsey,

is the most important player on their defense. was playing at an outrageous level was gonna, and he still will, you know, get a massive, massive contract. But that, you know, torn Achilles is just a huge loss. On the Middlelands turf. Right. I really thought you saw the difference

because Phillips missed, I think it was two or three games in the middle of the seat. I really thought you saw a massive difference because they have a deep defensive line and Wilkins is good, but man, Phillips is the one true difference maker. And then I also think they got to be a little worried that it's, it's just, I said it before the game. It's just been a while

since we saw a great two a game. He now has 20 interceptions and fumbles on the year. He only had 14 all of last year. How many? 20 total interceptions and fumbles combined. Now, there were some bad snaps in there. I want to go through what the fumbles are. What? What? I'm going to say a lot.

He didn't, they didn't lose all those fumbles, but no. No. No. I, I, I, whoa. Yeah, he does lead the league in fumble recoveries because some of those are bad snaps and everything. But there were some, like this game where it was his own fumble and he was picked off twice. And these weren't like making excuse interceptions. These were just bad interceptions.

And then they just, they have a freak, they have a brain freeze on third and one and fourth and one. It's crazy. They just refuse to run the ball forward. They finally did it later in this game, but they just refused to do it. And they never pick it up. They're one of the worst. They're bad teams in the league. It's so crazy.

So it's just little things. They're eight and three, but these are things that they're going to be. his thinking about i know this is nothing new but you see it on those throws to the outside on the pick six that he threw to brandon heckles yeah then the i and t that came before the hell mary like he just doesn't have great arm strength so it's just the his margin for error is smaller and when he's not sharp you know still and he had many great throws in this game it was a typical to a game where like look he had some dimes in so he mixes him in it's like you see both sides it's just okay all right let's uh move on and head to the desert where the rams were looking fice

again. Back to throw. Stafford lobs it. Left side. End zone caught. Touchdown Karen Williams. Touchdown L.A. The second year tailback takes a bow after his second receiving touchdown of the day. It's four and counting for Matthew Stafford. And now this playoff push has teeth. Whoa. Oh, Jamie. I like that our dude. Great call. Yeah. Why not? Five and six. Why not the Rams in the playoffs after Matt Stafford throws a season high four touchdown passes? And Kyron Williams comes back into the lineup and is a major difference maker in this game running for a buck 43 and also catching six passes for 61 yards. Two touchdown catches 37 to 14, the final.

Pretty impressive, Greg. It's against an Arizona defense, which is obviously one of the worst in the league, and it has new injuries. So that is a caveat, and they've owned this match of, but it is extremely impressive to see them dominate the line of scrimmage. The Rams that dominate the line of scrimmage in such a way that you can run for 228, that Kyran can go for 205 yards from scrimmage, that you can put up 37 points and 457 yards in a game where Puka Nakua and Cooper Cup combined. for 45 yards. I think that is a great sign for the health of this team

that they can stay feisty because the defense plays with a lot of energy. They did a nice job today. Donald is playing out of his mind, but it needs to be an offensive team, Marky, and this was one of the rare kind of special offensive days that they've had this season where they put it all together.

Iron Williams last appeared before today against the Cardinals when we were in London, and they had a scant rushing yardage in the first half. Then he exploded for 158. So in two games against the Cardinals back to back, they've allowed nearly 400 yards to him. He's a very interesting player because it's not fluky.

Like, he was absolutely gashing Arizona from wire to wire. This game was 8-7 at one point with Kyler Murray running in for a touchdown, and they never scored again. They don't look any better on offense with Kyler Murray than they did with Josh Dobbs. Yeah. Is that true? I don't know if that's true. They haven't been turning it over.

I think they've looked a little bit, but you're right, they're not lighting it up. They're not special. After that first drive where the Cardinals went right down the field, I think their next eight drives, they had something like a total of 80 yards. And yeah, it's the rookies for the Rams. We don't need to go too long on them,

but it's pretty crazy that they didn't have a first-round draft pick, am I right? And yet they have one of the best rookie classes in a long time, and that was the whole idea. They loaded up with these picks. They have four guys making huge, huge difference. Steve Avila is going to be starting a guard for them for a long time, like a difference-making guard. You have Pukua, you have Byron Young, who's among the leaders

in quarterback hits and certainly tops among all rookies. And then Kobe Turner had a couple sacks today and has been a really good starters. That's four rookie starters. They're five and six. This is actually, I think, basically exactly what Sean McVeigh was hoping for out of this season. Some meaningful games in December and the rookies and real guys we can build around. And oh, by the way, Aaron Donald's still playing at it. Really high. Yeah, like this is, you're right. This is what he wanted, which is, this is a development year with all these young players,

if we could be in contention while we're developing. And then you could build with a nice draft and free agency class next year. All of a sudden, you're back. So so far the, the path there is, is clear for them. They've done a nice job. And it's just now about can you keep Stafford upright and healthy? Because when he is healthy and slinging it, they can score points. Aveila was their first pick, 36.

overall in the second round. So, you know, I think they have a first round pick this year. It's the first time in like a decade. He too. And Stafford, who's touched on interception ratios, looks so wonky all year. It's been annoying for how well he's played. It's nice to see him just put up a four spot.

It's like a corrective measure. I don't know what he did in the off season, but I swear he is moving better and looks more agile and mobile than he's ever looked in his career. Like he was evading a ton of sacks and making good sort of second reaction. plays today. Love it.

Love to see it. He'll think he has an outside shot at the Hall of Fame, the strong final couple of years. Hmm. I think he has a shot. Fringy. I think he has a decent shot. I'm not sure if I would do it,

but he has a shot. Browns next week, they are in the mix. They have Browns, then Ravens. They also have the Niners on their schedule. Oh, yeah. It's going to be, but there's some winnable games in there, too. You could go across the sidewalk mark for that game,

Browns, uh, Rams. You know? I guess I could. A little 425 action. Come back for the pod. You could put on a 95 Miles Garrett jersey and put Levi over it. Nice little, nice little Alford. Okay, there we go.

Well, why not, right? Yeah. What's stopping me? Yeah, why wouldn't you go see the Browns? Why would we all go? Not interested in seeing the Browns. I'd be interested, but, you know. It would be the first.

But I feel like you might be interested at seeing the Browns at first. but, you know, if someone steals it from me in Thursday's draft, then it would null if... Then it's a problem. Then I have a professional assignment to do watching, you know, later other late games. Right. So it might, it might...

You could prevent it. It might behoove you to once again take the Browns very early in the upcoming draft. TBD. Strategy. To our friend Jason Zemma, who was dying as they were giving up 37 straight-of-points in this game. I mean, he cares.

And I think the Cardinals fans are being tested right now. they had a crowd. Do you have the pulse of the Cardinals? Well, no, but I do have a crowd shot that CBS showed in the middle of at the beginning of the fourth quarter and wasn't that well attended for that portion of the game. Like, they just weren't a lot of people there happened into that for a while. You know, not for another. Like, you know, Jonathan Gannon was brought in as a defensive coach and that defense is not

developing in his first year. Let us now move to Nashville where the Titans get the Wobiegone Panthers. Bryce Young 17 to 30 for 194 on the day Come on Bryce do something right hip

three receivers to the left come on Titan's showing pressure here they come come on throw it left side shark he's hit he's dropped

no Amati hooker got him basically at the line of scrimmage and ladies and gentlemen this one is a minute 55 from being over yes been a minute since they had a win so i get it i told you man they when the color guy forgets what his job is and he just screams out some type of guttural response

one of my favorite things yes uh yes and it was indeed uh a saints uh excuse me a titans team uh that needed a win uh and stayed undefeated at home, by the way, and taking care of business here against the Panthers, 17 to 10. The one in 10 Panthers. And Bryce Young in this game, that was a, they checked out of a play for that screen, the DJ Shark on a fourth and six that went nowhere. And Frank Reich said after the game, that, listen, that, that was the right move. They're showing a defense, a zero defense that if.

you beat that blitz that can go for a touchdown but they didn't quite run the right route that's not typically sharks uh purview but they had some injuries and it doesn't work out and that's just like the story of this team like they can't seem to get it going bryce young can't seem to get it going and as a result uh they are steaming not towards the number one over overall pickus they traded it right so it's like a lot of negativity and a lot of pain and then you see uh here's a tweet, I believe from Joe Person who covers the Panthers after the game. We might be we might be steaming towards another episode of a Tepper B talking. Our new big series ready to launch at some point this season. Person reports leaving the locker room. David Tepper shook his

head and yelled that's not good. Well, it's F dash dash dash. But I think I think and I'm sorry Eric, This is, this is journalism. Fuck. It's the owner. The owner. We have to assume that's the word that's being, uh, it could have been a different word. It could have been like, Frangy!

Fraggie! Frank Frangy, one of the great, uh, guys. I mean, there's, there's, you know. Oh, man. There's evidence that the owner is, is the one that's bad. It's bad. It's bad. It's wanted Bryce Young over anyone else, too.

And, well, of course. Well, yeah. And I think there's obviously a lot of. it's mean to say blame to go around but with CJ Stroud doing what he's doing it's just all the more frustrating so you have all that going on around Charlotte and it's just a bad vibe on the Tennessee side of things

you got some positive Derek Henry had two touchdowns here and Henry I feel like this year you see it's a different version of Henry because what he used to do and what made him a Hall of Famer or makes him a Hall of Famer is he would have these days where he was just kind of like waiting to break one and his numbers

look mundane and then bang he goes for 68 and then that average jumps from 3.2 on 18 carries to 5.9 or whatever like those you don't see those runs as much anymore but he still is a guy you get get the ball to him in the red zone he could find a way so they get it to henry will levis is not equaled that debut game yet not come close to not throw a touchdown on this game but i thought i saw some progress from him this week uh in terms of his decision making and in general i thought it was a pretty clean effort by the Titans, a team that's four and seven, uh, four and one in home, I should say, not undefeated. Well, that was that their only home loss was in London. Yeah. So undefeated in Nashville, what they

have to be, they have to have the worst record for any team that hasn't lost in their home stadium, like in this, yeah, entering December. And I'll concede. What a what a feat. Yeah, I'll concede to you, Mark, that you watching Giants, paths is probably the worst game of the day. But, uh, uh, 264 yards for the Titans 258 for the Panthers. Uh, this was not. a game that it's going to be sticky in my brain moving forward. No, sure. And I've yet to examine it super closely, so I could be wrong about that. I can

I guarantee you that Patriots Giants was no treat. I want to hear your breakdown of really what you take away from this game. Later in the week. I did read that Jeffrey Simmons was absolutely dominant. Three tackles for loss. Had a sack

in this game. He's great. I think that's all we need. Yeah, do we have any Oh, wait, I do have an update on Frank Reich that actually, to me, is more, more concerning, maybe even than the owner yelling that word, Will Cuncle of Fox. Yeah. Real person. A local Fox Hughes says to you.

I don't know. But he says he was told Frank Reich's coaching seat is, quote, on fire per source. Now, to be fair, Will Cuncle works at Fox 26 Houston. he's reporting on the Panthers. I'm sure he does a great job, but I'm not familiar with him. I don't know what his sourcing is on this. I don't know how he reported this, but he is right because Frank Reich has the kind of a sad sack look on the sideline.

And he was brought in to work with Bryce Young and make him a big time player. He's shown very little progress. They're averaging 12 points a game in the last five weeks. And on top of everything else, it should be said in fairness to. to the young quarterback that they had injuries on the interior of the offensive line. So that's not making it any easier. He does play small. You watch these games and you see it just he doesn't look like he's in a comfortable place in the league right now.

So, you know, three Carolina coaches had seasons with 13 or more losses from ESPN. Dom Capers, four in 12 and 98, Seifert, George Seaford. Remember the Panthers? Yeah. He used to wear those aviators with the white hair. George Siefer, 1 in 2015 in 2001, John Fox, 2 and 14 in 2010 before Cam got there. They all were fired after that season. This smells like a 2 and 15, 1 and done for Reich, and we'll see.

Does he even make it through the season? When you got Tepper walking out of the locker room and saying whatever that F word was, who knows? I mean, that's not going to be a fun meeting for Frank on Monday. And Tepper knows what he's doing when he does that. It's like you're, there's, you know what's outside of an NFL locker room down in the bowels of those stadiums. Like tons of reporters, tons of people with eyes and it was a performative. Well, that's a great point, Mark.

I think, I don't know. I would think he's just so emotional. Exactly. He's, I think he thought when he took over for. A lot of stuff gets out from that. It seems a lot of. I know, but he, he, you know, he's just so mad about it that I don't think he wants to have. I think what happens in with these CEO.

oligarchs and all that like they aren't used to failure and they think everything they take over is going to be great since he replaced Richardson they've been a mess yeah right it is a reminder because I frustration must be immense I'm guilty of this too you know Richardson we weren't fans of and there was this whole I've just like hey David David Teper's got to come in and he's been successful and he's run business it was like now they've got great ownership he's going to get what he wants that's what temper does and it's like actually you're going to do what most new NFL owners is, which is just waste your first five years with a ton of mistakes.

My favorite. My favorite Panthers trope the first couple of years in this era was Tepard knows how to close a deal. Right. Say, well, you know, we're not. Still paying Matt Rule. Yeah. We are not trading on the open stock market.

We are not absorbing other businesses and hostile takeovers. we're trying to lift Lombardy's a little different. All right, to Sunday night football. He sends Zay flowers wide to the right. Now he brings flowers in motion to the left. He gives up the flowers on the jet sleeve. He cuts inside the numbers. He's in the 30, 20, 10, 5, touchdown, Ravens.

The Zay is in LeBard, and the Ravens knock out the Chargers in L.A. I love it. I love it. The Zay is in the barn. Jerry Sandusky with the call. Yes, Zay Flowers. In a third and short scenario that just need the first down. But Zay saw daylight and he took advantage of it,

taking it to the house, his second touchdown of the game. That was from 37 yards out. And it was the decider in a Ravens, 20 to 10, win over the Chargers. The Chargers all but dead now at four and seven after another lackluster primetime performance. And the Ravens, nine and three sit atop the AFC with six games to play or five games to play. Dan hands us with Greg now as we made our hasty retreat from SoFi Stadium back to our respective homes. Mark didn't make it. Mark, uh, Mark, uh, ran into some traffic, some type of holiday parade in Hollywood.

So it's just going to be you and me, Greg, and the Ravens feel no pain after yet another win. Yeah, I feel for Mark, we were trying to avoid the traffic and he got stuck in the Hollywood Christmas parade. Well, that's what you get for moving to Hollywood, which is, you know, your whole life is traffic when you live in that part of the city. I'm, I'm sure he's feeling like charges. fans right now. Like, we, we just went through this whole experience to just end in such an incredibly frustrating and yet familiar way. Like, the Chargers, they find ways to lose games in new and creative ways in this Ravens

team, even though they're going to come out of this and you could hear it in Lamar Jackson's voice after the game, very frustrated with what he said was a flat offensive performance. They can win, like, any type of different game. And this was a game where they're plus four. four in turnovers, and they can also almost blow any 10-point lead in the fourth quarter. It felt like they might do that here with the charges driving down only three with a couple of minutes to go. But this defense is ultimately just too good to lose to all but like real contending teams.

I know they've had some slip-up performances, but on a day like today, it's hard not to feel like they're one of the, you know, yeah, and Jason Garrett said it on the telecast, weirdly filling in for Chris Collinsworth. I don't know what the details were on that either. But Garrett pointed out that, yes, this is not the 2000 Ravens. And no team really is the 2000 Ravens, except perhaps the 85 bears. But they're built similarly in how the defense is huge up front and elements of how they constructed that side of the ball. And they play well and they make you earn every yard and they hit you hard and it's just a well-coach, well-schemed attack and or defense. And and the Chargers, quite frankly, are not built to beat a good defense, which seems weird

when Justin Herbert is your quarterback and you have Austin Eckler's running back and you have Keenan Allen closing in on 100 catches before December. But that's really the offense. And that's part of the problem with this team is that they lost Mike Williams and and Johnson has been a bust in his first year. And Echler hasn't been the same player this year. And Herbert has not been able to lift the offense with the cast that he has. He averaged less than five yards attempt in this game, had a costly sack fumble late that obviously, you know,

he was beat up on the play as well. And he's been taking a beating at times this year. It's just been very frustrating for this Chargers offense, which is supposed to be better with Kellynne Moore this year, but I just haven't seen that. No, Quentin Johnson has kind of killed them because after Williams's injury and Josh Palmer's injury, that's their two and their three,

and Palmer was a really good three. They just needed him to step up. I think he would have been benched if they had any other options. And in this game, like, he has the two killer drops and then he gets hurt, unfortunately. And look, Herbert, like, was doing it. everything they could. And I just thought that third quarter into the fourth quarter drive that

they spent 19 plays and over eight and a half minutes to go before it ends getting nothing because of the clowny sack fumble was just so fitting because they knew they needed big plays at that point, but they just don't have it. That was the only way that they were going to move the ball, even though they were kind of killing the clock on themselves. And yeah, they did get the touchdown the next drive after that. They didn't totally lay down in this game. But there's just a total lack of explosion. I'm amazed how Keenan Allen is racking up. He had 14 for 106, like doing this

week after week when opposing defenses, no, that's basically all they have. Yeah, I mean, it was 14 catches on 16 targets. For a while there was the receptions were equaling the targets until late in the fourth quarter, but also, you know, and this is not taking away from Allen,

but he is the greatest chain mover in the game right now. He's not a dynamic downfield player. He averaged seven and a half yards of reception he got 106 yards off 14 catches so while he is an essential part of an offense that any team would love to have he's not your prototypical number one all pro game wrecker in the same way as other players across the league at that position so they need someone with him and it's just not there and uh you know what is that wait what's that

sound i hear what is that sound i hear in the distance in the sky above us is oh my goodness the rainmaker oh it's the rainmaker that's right all you boys and girls get your advent calendars out and start unwrapping Greg

the delights Zay Flowers thank you very much for not going down at the one yard line that would have been a tough way to go out Greg you are living the most charmed existence this season I must say I

I envy you It's high level envy. Justin Tucker misses a automatic kick for him to keep it. The spreads three and a half. He misses the kick. Let's lock it up, by the way, too. We locked this up too. You locked it up as well.

He misses the kick. The chargers take over, fail as they do. And then it comes down to what looks like to be a 1310 win if they just pick up the first down. And yes, not only does he get the first down on third and short. short, he doesn't go down because he wanted to do his penalty kick celebration. And that gets Greg, the rainmaker lock up. I, I just, I'm just so jealous of you, Greg. Everything you touch turns the gold this season. Stop. I mean, they had a record to the picks this year. Well, that was a lock. That is 11 and 1. As I've said, luck is, uh, luck is the most important, you know, ingredient to all this.

This one was especially on the rainmaker side of things. Really. Yes. You know everything is kind of clicking on on Rosenthal Boulevard this season. Well, when they got the stop on Harbor and, you know, when the Chargers are going, I'm feeling so many emotions here because, yes, I want all the children, especially overseas, you know, our Scottish listeners, all the, you know, I want them and their kids to get the Scottish listeners have to do with this. Well, they're just, they're, they're big. They love, they love St. Nick.

They love the Rainmaker. I don't know. I was thinking, you know, I'm torn because I kind of want to see a good game. I want to see Justin Herbert. one of my favorite players in the league go down and not have one of these games where he gets the ball again at the end of the game and they can't score it ends up happening twice in this game essentially. But when the Ravens got it back, you know, I was thinking if they stop him three times in a row, Tucker gets a chance at redemption there, but instead flowers pops the big one. And that's

why no one should ever actually do this. And I was mad, by the way, at John Harbaugh. And I know it's a, it's a kind of analytics guy way to think about it. But I hated that field goal attempt. Go for it on fourth and two. I hated their play calling tonight. They just refused to run the ball. They were running the ball great and it is the one thing. I believe in this Ravens team. I love the way Clowny and always playing. I love the way they run the ball. But their passing attack is erratic. And they're going to need them, their receivers in Lamar, to win some games. And you just don't know which one's going to show up. And tonight they could have just won that game if they just ran the ball more frequently. And if they had gone for that fourth and two

to just try to put the weight ball game away there. Yeah, Keaton Mitchell deserves more touches than he's getting. He got nine in this game and he turned it into 64 yards. I just think every time he touches the ball, he makes their offense better. And you are right about Jadavian Clowny.

I mean, he looked five years younger. And I know it probably annoys Browns fans because he didn't live up to the promise of a number one overall pick. And then last year, he essentially quit on that team. And now he's in hated Baltimore and playing at a high level. He had that that's like the,

the holy trinity for a defensive player when you can get the sack, the force fumble, and the fumble recovery on Herbert. So Clowny has been almost predictably, the best version of himself once he got to Baltimore. Well, they take other people's players and they make them better. Like Pat,

Roquan Smith is just outrageous how good he's playing. You get Clowny, Van Nuys making plays. I mean, Hamilton, that was their own pick. But when he made a big play early in the game, I think it was on Echler and then did the two small celebration, Dan, which, you know, felt personal to Echler. You know, not the, not the tallest guy.

It's been a tough year for Austin Echler. That's seven and a half sacks for Clowny. I've been tracking very closely for over a decade. Will he ever get to 10? Maybe this is the year. This could be it. You might get a Super Bowl ring here. This team is nine and three.

It's why I, when you ask me, who's the one seed, you know, was the Jaguars early in the day. And then there was the chief set midday. And as I was saying, I was like, is this going to be dated? Well, no, because you listened all the way to the end. And now the Ravens are the one seed in the AFCs. It changed hands three times today, four? Yeah. Yeah, because the dolphins had it.

Who did it open with? I think it started with the dolphins. That's amazing. Went to the Jags, went to the chiefs. Now it's the Ravens. One last thing, I missed it before, but I wanted to let you know. um in the cadence rankings i know you're going to do your top 10 at the end of the year um i want you to keep your eye on titans quarterback will levis who has a throaty aggressive

masculine uh cadence call and it's something that uh warrants uh close eye as his career continues to unfold looking forward to it that's why we got to finish this so i can dive into that tape what what a what a transition that's like the rot the uh farve to rogers of cadences because tannahill's one of the one of the grades of his generation yep i don't think it's coincidence all right that's it we're assuming mark will get back to his home um by knowing mark i feel for you buddy because i don't not that he's going to listen to this but i know how frustrated he probably is sitting in that traffic. I got, I curiously, I got a lot of, like, panicked angry texts about it, but it wasn't the three of us. So maybe he's, he's afraid of you. So maybe you guys have

to talk about that. Why would it be afraid of me? This is one where, um, yeah, it's that, that is not on him. Mark, uh, will be back with us on Monday, uh, when we have our NFL plus game of the week, uh, Eagles Bill. So make sure you check that out. And also Monday night football when we wrap up the week with Bears, Vikings till then. You know what you must do. He's the call.