NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - 2025 Week 12 Recap: No One Takes the Points

Episode Date: November 24, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Patrick Claybon and Nick Shook to recap all of the Week 12 action from around the NFL, starting with the Eagles at the Cowboys (01:25) followed by Colts at Chiefs (13:20), Giants at Lions (25:10), Vikings at Packers (37:10), Bears at Steelers (45:30), Jets at Ravens (53:20), Seahawks at Titans (58:23), Patriots at Bengals (01:05:36), Jaguars at Cardinals (01:12:35), Browns at Raiders (01:19:16), Falcons at Saints (01:25:00), Buccaneers at Rams on Sunday Night Football (01:30:16) and wrap things up with a reaction to the Raiders firings OC Chip Kelly (01:38:52) Note: time codes approximate NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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where we love a little free football. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Wesseling podcast studio and I'm with Patrick Claibon with all the claymates listening I'm with Nick Shook with all the shook ones out there and yes

this week 12 recap is for all the NFL Dalians in our universe what a Sunday an important Sunday where we finally lost Patrick Claibon as a member of team analytics. He's done with it. No. No. No. It's over.

I just, I needed a place to go. I went there briefly. No. And we're back, Greg. Stay there. Everything is good. Stay there. Everything's good. I've never seen Patrick as mad at anything as he has been about the fourth down decisions on this Sunday, especially from Liam Cohen and Brian Schottenheim. Yeah. There were some ones that got a little bit wiggly there. I went to a dark place. But I'm back now. I did some research.

Yes. I will get, you know, again, I have hit my yelling quota. No. I will not be yelling anymore. And we, we're going to, I have a take. I'm working on it when we get there. Okay. And we'll give it to the people.

Let's get there then. Let's talk about one of those games. Let's lead off with Cowboys Eagles to Jerry World. 42 yards on the left hash to win the game. Snap and hold, 42 yard kick from Aubrey. The Cowboys have won this football game. Butter, butter, butter, butter. I don't know when they've won one that felt like this.

42 for Aubrey and the Cowboys win 24-21. Oh, the voice of the Dallas Cowboys. Brad Sham on KRLD. He can't remember a game where they came back from 21-0. 21-7 at halftime. Yes, holding the Eagles scoreless in the second half and perhaps overcoming a decision that made Patrick a little bit crazy. Brandon Aubrey with the walkoff.

Let's start with Shooky here. When the Eagles are dominating this game in the first half, I just could not imagine a scenario where the Cowboys came back and won it, and they are now 5, 5 and 1. And the theme early in this show is the Thanksgiving games getting a little more interesting. the Cowboys getting to 500, what do you think was the most important thing that turned this game around? I mean, this could spider web in a number of different directions just based on the fact that it's not going to be a normal Monday morning in Philadelphia after this.

But yeah, what was the most important thing? Well, I agree with you that when they were up 21 to nothing, I thought there's no way. They're rolling. They even checked off the most important box, which is get A.J. Brown involved and throw them a touchdown pass. Their social media teams having a field day with it. They posted the little video of Jalen Hurts sitting down saying, so that's what you all wanted, huh? except this is not what they wanted. They didn't want you to collapse in the second half and give away possession by fumbling a punt return by giving the Cowboys a chance that they didn't cash in by failing to get within field goal range

and then giving up a field goal against your hated rival. This is a game you should have pulled away and instead you crumbled and that's why it's not going to be a normal Monday in Philadelphia. And I do want to get to the downside of the Eagles at some point here. But this was an awesome performance by a Cowboys offense

who puts up 473 yards, 25 first downs, and George Pickens helps to take over in the second half, finishing with 146 yards on nine catches, on nine targets. On nine targets. Every single time. The ball went in George Pickens' direction. He was making a play against a secondary where there's always an overmatch in the favor of the Philadelphia Eagles until they come into this situation,

where it's C.D. Lamb and George Pickens, and you're able to get a player who the folks watching that game, previous Cowboys games, it's tough to watch and say that George Pickens isn't the best player on the field. And you get him for a third round pick. And thanks to the nature of the franchise tag and all that, we may never get to see what George Pickens might actually be worth on an open market in this situation. But it's tough not to say, top five in the league right now. You were saying he was the best receiver in the league a little earlier. In terms of like who's executing, who's making the plays that are available to them on the field, who's finishing

plays where you see George Pickens to get loose. He steps out of a tackle, a legitimate threat to score every single time he catches the ball. I understand there were some wiggly moments. He did weird things and we had fun in talking about them in Pittsburgh. But the results speak for themselves, Greg. He's a spectacular football player playing some of the best football of his career right now. And he did it on a day where his running partner, C.D. Lamb, let the team down ultimately three drops, I believe in this game, a couple real groaners where he's just like knocking it down like a volleyball. And then he didn't make a catch that preceded the Brian Schottenheimer decision on fourth down that, you know, first of all, C.D. Lambs should catch that ball. It's a really

difficult throw by Doc Prescott into a tight window, but it goes through C.D. Lambs' bread basket. It's tied 21 all. This is late in the fourth quarter. We've got about 3.45 to go. And instead of taking a chip shot, Brandon Aubrey field goal, they go for four. fourth and goal, I believe from the Philadelphia one yard line, but they throw the ball. And that was the point where you lost your mind and I think analytics lost you forever. No, it's not that analytics lost me forever. I think the Dallas Cowboys clawed all the way back from down 21 to nothing. They had a chance to take the lead in the fourth quarter.

And I understand the model and the folks that next gen stats put a lot of effort into the model, but there are some limitations there and determining what the decision should be in a football game that is actively happening in the moment. So the model has to make a few assumptions. And so you go in to the next gen stats page and they're very forthcoming, very open, with regards to how things are constructed. And so I'll read you guys a quote.

The actual yards to go is a clear metric to provide to the model because you want to know the down-in distance in how that plays into your decisions. But there's not a lot of information that's available to the model in that moment. So the vagus lines are used to condense vast amounts of situational,

historical knowledge about the teams into a small set of numbers to involve that decision, specifically the point spread. And you know my opinion on what the goal of the point spread is. To make people a gamble more. To provide an opportunity for people

to make a decision to gamble. But that's only that small part of the NGS model. It's a small part, but when we're talking about decisions that are 0.009 and 0.004, I think in terms of evaluating the decision, I would like,

like a model not to include Vegas's desire to make money on the football game because I know people think Vegas is so smart and they know everything about football. They are not making decisions to be right about the game. They are making decisions to make money. The lines are there to encourage action. Eventually you get to a point where you get a line

and that's because the line is changing over the course of the entire week because they would like the money. The money is the priority there. Yes. I don't know how much it goes into it. I think you have to trust what you see. And Brian Schottenheimer has said, like, he hears his dad's voice in his head and that he wants to be more conservative with these ideas. And I think he's thinking field position is part of it,

because what happened to the Eagles offense is, you know, part of that decision. And what happened to them is they got a couple first downs, but they end up punting from their own 19-yard line, setting up the Cowboys to end up going on that game-winning field goal drive. I was surprised because, Chuck, the Eagles defense is the great unit in this game. A, the Eagles offense is struggling. So if you put three points on the board here, actually, I'd have a little bit of faith that the Cowboys can stop them. But I didn't mind the call too much to go for it there.

I'm just more kind of amazed that everything happened down the stretch of this game on both sides of the ball. What disappointed you the most, Chuck, like, of how the Eagles finished this game out? Well, I felt like Patrick was heading toward making a case for momentum for a second with like, you know, needing the context of the game to, you know, kind of make a better decision, which I was about to be blown away by that. So thank you for steering away from that. That would have just made me useless for the rest of the show. I think it's just the second half lack of production. Not that it's a surprise from the Eagles offense that has struggled mightily. And in fact, scoring 21 points against anybody is an achievement for them, at least as of late. It's the fact that their defense,

given the opportunity to get some stops, which they did get some stops. There was a lot, a sequence there where Kvante Turpin fumbles the ball in the backfield. Zach Bonn recovers. Like they made their plays defensively, but ultimately they were not able to withstand the onslaught, the offensive onslaught of nearly 500 total yards from a Cowboys offense. That is their only method to success is by throwing the ball

and trying to just move it through the air as much as possible. That's what disappoints me. Now, they did lose some guys in this game. And then Andrew McCuba goes down that last drive as well. And that's kind of a bummer and explains a little bit of it. but ultimately, if this defense is as good as we thought it was for the last couple of weeks, they make at least one stand in a key spot. And at minimum, this game goes to overtime, which is not what happened.

To me, it's so much more on the offense. And the game changed. We didn't know it at the time, certainly. But it's late second quarter. They had like a third and two before halftime. And then they get a false start penalty on, I think on Cam Juergens. It backs them up. They don't get the first down.

And then DAC goes on a nice drive before halftime to at least cut the deficit. And then after that, you know, the Eagles offense goes three and out, one first down, and then a punt, another three and out. Jacob Elliott misses a long field goal at one point. You have the fumble. It's a little bit of everything. But ultimately, like against this Cowboys defense, which does look better, you know, you got to be able to sustain drives a little bit more because you can't expect their defense to hold up the whole time. It was a really magical, I think, day for the Cowboys and for Dak Press. Scott, let's listen to his rushing touchdown, which tied the score early in the fourth quarter.

Prescott on second down, back and runs up out of the pocket. Runs to his left, to the 10, to the five, touch to his right, Somersold in the goal line. Touchdown! Touchdown for the captain. Touchdown, Prescott. You're too old to Somersault. And eight yards, strad, well, there an extra point away from coming all the way back. Oh, that is awesome.

And it's a reminder. Yeah, one team was able to run the ball well today. And that team was the Dallas Cowboys. Not that it was like incredible. Javante goes 87 yards. And Malik Davis actually had a couple nice carries off the bench too. But Saquan Barkley, 10 for 22. And yeah, on a day where Devante Smith goes deep and A.J. Brown goes over 100 yards.

Like we said, they have had no running game. And they fall to 8 and 3 and give the Rams, who will be hearing from. later in the show a chance to take the one seat in the NFC. And a credit to consummate ball knower Jerry Jones as the Wilson trade as well as the Williams trade seem to

this Dallas Cowboys defense, you go back to the start of the season, their inconsistency and just you know they get DeMarvian overshown back, which also helps there. But the run defense better, defense better overall even though they did get

torch deep a couple of times and the pressure kept Jalen Hertz from stepping into throws, but Jalen Hurts far and away the leading rusher. He had 10 more yards than Sequin, and he averaged four yards of carry. He had the most explosive run of the Eagles' offense on the day. And, you know, Lane Johnson being out, it definitely wasn't going to get better,

but we saw how much worse it was going to be against this Iber Fluse defense. And it's, you know, over on the defensive side, you know, McCuba gets hurt, but not just that, because he's on Turpin coming out of the backfield on the Pickens play that got them in field goal range on that last drive. And he's running to get Turpin runs into Quinyon Mitchell, which is how George Pickens got

that open in the first place. Just a rough situation in spots for the defense and then for the offense is the entire second half that just things went south. Yeah. It's kind of amazing where I know Jalen Hertz can't hold the ball, but Dack and Jalen Hertz held the ball the same amount of time tonight. And you know which team had a higher pressure? rate, the Dallas

Cowboys, the Doomsday defense is back. They're in the mix at 5 and 1, 5, 5, and 1. Shook violently shaking his head at doomsday defense. Not a fan? No, it'd be my doomsday. I'm still, you know, I'm still not forgiving Jerry for the Michael

Parsons trade, but damn it, if they don't put on a good show, would they be facing a team on Thanksgiving? Also coming off of victory, let's go to the Chiefs in Arrowhead. See if the Colts had blitz, they do, a crisscross blitz. Mahomes goes over the middle of the passage.

Todd! Diving catch made by Worthy! And a catch and cold territory of 31 yards! Worthy with the great catch-burning. Chavarius Ward, the ex-chief, and the chiefs are in business at 515 to go in the overtime, tied at 20. Oh, Mitch Holtus, on K-F-N-Z, with the heady call noting, Yes, it was a Charverius Ward revenge game, but the Chiefs got their revenge in the end, 23 to 20 in overtime, a fascinating game. It felt like a playoff game.

The Eagles Cowboys was just weird fun. This felt like it could have been in January, and I shouldn't be surprised, Chuck, in the end, that the Chiefs made the plays to win as if it was a January. game, down 20 to 9, going into the fourth quarter. The Chiefs are driving. Patrick Mahomes needed to win this game. If they were going to win this game, and they did obviously, it was going to be the biggest fourth quarter comeback of his entire career. And when Kareem Hunt fumbled the ball in the red zone while they're going in to start the fourth quarter, I really thought, man, that's probably it. But you know what? Steve Spagnolo kept sending the house. He,

Jones kept getting pressures to get the Colts off the field. And ultimately, the Chiefs defense, which just couldn't buy a big play all day, just ground down this Colts defense and eventually wins it in overtime. A gut check win. And I don't think you can overstate how important it is to this entire Chiefs season. No, absolutely not. Especially after Travis Kelsey, you know, was outspoken this week saying that people needed to stop being selfish. This was going to be a situation that was going to test. your, you know, intestinal fortitude as a team. Like, how are you going to overcome this adversity at home against one of the rising star teams of the AFC this year? One of the

darlings in the Indianapolis Colts with one of the most complete offenses in the NFL. How do you do it? You outgain them nearly two to one. Very close to two to one. You overcome early and mid, little early fourth quarter turnover as well, and you mount the comeback, which is a prime example of why when we continue to consider this team week by week, no matter their record, five and five, now six and five, we cannot put them to bed because they have the culture and the experience to overcome adversity in situations like that. Sometimes they need to remind themselves that they're capable of it. And I hate to put too much importance on a game. But this type of comeback and then winning it in overtime, it didn't feel

inevitable. Watching from afar might have felt inevitable just because of the chiefs, but it can be the type of game that informs your team that, yes, you can do this. And it injects belief and hope and optimism into the group and takes a little bit of that pressure off that you're no longer you're now you're slightly above 500 this is where the run starts let's build momentum from here well yeah they would have been at five and six and the rest of the aFC i think is watching this game and they're like come on colts can you just drive the stake through their heart because there were so many opportunities to do so and sometimes it's these small little margins and i'm going to go through a few different scenarios in this game but one actually is late second quarter

And at this point, the chiefs and the Colts are trading touchdowns for field goals. And it's 14.6. And it looked like, I thought, you know, the Colts had played a really good game play calling. They were going to escape the first half with one extra possession. Those are like the small margins and probably go up even more than 14 to 6. They get stuffed on a second in one type of carry or second and two, something like that. And then on third down, Spagnolo, kind of Jedi mind tricks Daniel Jones into changing. changing the play at the line of scrimmage into a pass on third and one at midfield.

And then Jones does pass it. But the chiefs, they're so smart. They change their defense back. And Jones doesn't have time to really adjust. And they get ready back people out of the box. And they stop them. And Stuyken then decides to punt. And it's around midfield.

And that started a trend of Shane Stuyken punting on fourth and short. He punted two different times in the second half on his own 40 on 4th and 3. And I think both the models and Patrick Clayb, I would probably defend that decision. I thought with the way the game was going, I would have liked to see him go for it. I think less forgivable to me

was punting on 4th and 4 from the Chief's 45-yard line with 536 to go. You're on the other side of the 50. You're up at that point, a field goal. And that sequence to me was so telling because whether you give credit to the decisions or more importantly, the players,

the Chiefs were just not allowing the Colts offense to do anything. And you get the ball at midfield, up three with about six minutes to go. You should just win that game, and they go three and out. And the Colts defense had been kind of bailing them out over and over again, just bending and not breaking, and eventually they did break. And also the aggressiveness, not just from Shane Steichen, what you would have liked to see in those situations, but on Daniel Jones and the plays before those situations,

Because on that fourth and ultimately four, dimes throw short of the sticks to get his third and ten, and they get a six-yard completion. They're at a Michael Pittman, Jr. And it's a trend that went for most of the second half where the Colts would be in great situations. There would be incomplete passes on third down. Ultimately, they go five of 16 on third down in this game

where they have the opportunities. But you see the Kansas City Chiefs lose to the consummate, 2025 rock fight team in the Denver Broncos. And when they get in a rock fight that's not against the Broncos, a shootout, I will favor the Colts and Dimes every single time. But as the score remained low in this game, it seemed more inevitable. And you mentioned the Kareem Hunt fumble. It could have been even worse.

It could have been even more of a, like overtime's not in question if Kareem Hunt doesn't put that ball on the turf. And the Chiefs just win this second half running away. No. And the game starts with Laiatu Latu, having his third. interception of the year. Put him on the Pro Bowl ballot as a cornerback. Forget it. I mean,

he's got more than... He's a cover ed. A lot of, like, the top players in the league. And he picks off Mahomes, tips it in the air to himself and they score a short, you know, three-yard touchdown drive right after that. One of their two scores. They got two touchdowns. Right. On a play-to-play

basis, the Chiefs look like the better team. 33 first downs to 10, 91 offensive plays. And yet, like, The thing that stands out to me, Shook, is the Colts had no pass rush whatsoever. They missed DeForest Buckner so well. And I actually thought it was a pretty uneven game from Patrick Mahomes. He goes for 350 yards.

He ultimately makes the winning play there in overtime. But I think Tony Romo is usually pretty forgiving, was noting how he's getting off his receivers awfully quickly. And there's some numbers out there where they are just not doing anything against man coverage this year or in this game. He's eating up zone. and when they went to man today with Charvarius Ward and Soss Gardner, like they were not getting any production.

And so they really had to work for it. Kareem Hunt had 30 carries in this game for 104 yards. They stuck with the run in part because Mahomes was uneven. And yet, you know, they made it happen. Mahomes and Chris Jones especially in the end. And it's indicative of something that Mahomes has battled a few weeks now. And I think it really came to a head against Denver, a game that he just always felt like it looked to me like he was always uncomfortable

in that game and just didn't really know where. where to go, which is very uncommon for him. He's one of the best play extenders and somebody who makes something out of nothing in the NFL. And to have that kind of carry over into an uneven game today against a quality opponent doesn't surprise me at all. What does surprise me that the Chiefs were able to commit to the run

and break 100 yards with a 30-carry performance from Karim Hunt because this is a Chiefs team that has not been able to run the ball consistently for most of this year, save for when you get inside the 5 or the 10, and you just handed it off to hunt and he runs a couple of guys over and gets into the end zone. So that's encouraging to me. But I also, pivoting kind of back to the Colts here for a second,

we give the Patriots a lot of stuff because, okay, well, they're unproven. Like, who have they played, right? We don't know about them. Why don't we say the same thing about the Colts? Because this is one of those examples where you look at them and you go, you need Daniel Jones to make a play. You need Jonathan Taylor to have a day. Is 16 carries for 58 yards is not a day when compared against the rest of Jonathan Taylor's season.

How much do you trust this Colts team? Because they're going to be in a situation. like this in the playoffs. This is a test, and I think if anybody was looking for a reason to be confident in them, they failed that test today. Yeah, I agree.

There were so many opportunities for them to win and to show that they were like a difference-making offense. And they started out that way in terms of like the play calling, but ultimately that sequence I mentioned where they get the ball at midfield

with a chance to put the ball away, like Jonathan Taylor doesn't even get the ball. And it's worth noting like Jonathan Taylor in their running game wasn't that effective overall today including in short yard situation so it's like

you're kind of damned if you do damned if you don't the offensive line had a bunch of penalties like they had their chance to kind of stamp themselves and now they didn't do it. You saw a flash of it

where there was a play I believe in the second half where Quentin Nelson is pulling around gets a great block they get a great seal on the edge as well and Jonathan Taylor goes down

the sideline and you almost needed the Colts the Colts needed Jonathan Taylor to have that signature like huge home run hit run where that's those are the big place on the offense at this point where the chiefs were able to you know keep a lid on Alec Pearson

and you we want like well maybe Dimes gets involved in the run game he had a first down scramble but he's no he's not moving like prime dimes in the run game I know it's it's November and it just looked a little clunky moving around I'm sure he's you know the chief's defense was beating him up as well I don't think he's 100% because he was questionable on the injury report

and he was moving around and he stuck in the pocket and made some really good throws to start this game out including the first touchdown that he threw which I thought was an incredible example of him staying in the pocket

but he did give the Chiefs a couple chances to pick the ball off in this game too. They just didn't take advantage and then look if the Chiefs do turn this season around circle back to about three minutes left in this game.

They had a fourth down and it felt like not season to go, but it was a big moment. And Rishie Rice, if you're watching on YouTube, you'll see Rishie Rice makes a nice catch after Mahomes drops back to pass. The throws like a little bit high. And I've been getting on Rishie Rice for not really making plays this year. He did have a good game today after one misplay early,

then goes eight for 141. Big time play by a big time player. You could almost say it was a one-handed grab. The way you had to reach up and stab that, where it would have been a nasty Mahomes miss. if that goes to the turf. People would have said, hey, that would have been a tough catch for Rishi Rice instead, first down, and now they can't be killed.

They're the zombie chiefs. They are, and that sets up a beautiful Thanksgiving matchup. They're six and five. The Cowboys are five, five, and one, and both very intriguing. Meanwhile, this Colts lost somewhere Texans fans were at home cheering for the chiefs. Somewhere, Jaguars fans will get to them. We're cheering for the chiefs and could make it very. interesting atop the AFC

South. All right, let's go from that Thanksgiving game and set up the next one. Yes, the Detroit Lions were hoping for an easy Sunday and they did not get one. Here come the Lions now. Opening possession of overtime. Golf up under center, turns, gives to Gibbs,

gives to Gibbs, Gives to the 50, right time by 40. Chit's on. There we go. What are you got? We know. Touchdown. Detroit Lion. Fort field. stand up

65 yards Jamir Gibbs to the house first play from scrimmage in overtime if you know you know that man can fly he can't fly wow my goodness

oh put that on the call of the year list I don't know if we've been doing one this year we should now Jamir Gibbs does it again 219 yards on the ground on only 15 carries. He scores three touchdowns on the day. For you fantasy owners, he adds 11 catches. It's the Jemir Gibbs offense.

He is the best pound for pound player in the NFL, like Ali Connolly was saying on our Saturday show. Check that out. The Lions survive an all-time James Winston game in terms of entertainment value. win 34 to 27 in overtime. And yes, they had to stop James Winston because of the overtime rules. That touchdown did not end the game on a drive while we're here.

Let's actually listen to another Dan Miller call because it was another big time player ending the game for the Lions. Fourth and five, with the Lions get a stop here, this game's over. Winston's going to work out of the gun. Four across the front for Detroit. long count play clock at three there's the snap to

Winston he's back on fourth down looking pressure cut him Winston good hit him boom ball game ball game ball game age Hutchinson comes up with a sack

get out of here boys go to the locker room this game's over oh that's another great call and I do love a Lomas Brown just screaming in the background I believe that was him

Shook, look, they needed this. You cannot slip up to the Giants the way things are crowded in that division. What did you think about how hard it was for the Lions to win this game? I think that the visceral nature of those two calls explains it all for the Lions today. Because you're absolutely right. This is a game that they could not afford to slip up. They couldn't let this one get away. They couldn't afford falling to 6 and 5.

And they shouldn't because it's the Giants. A team that hasn't won in ages, a team that's playing James Winston at quarterback, you should be able to make him make a mistake or two because that's what he's known to do. Instead, James has one of his best days that anybody's going to remember. He catches a touchdown pass and it wasn't just catching in the end zone.

It's a catch and run. The lions in the fourth quarter had to find themselves just wondering, how did we get here? And it took a great effort for them just to get into field goal range to send this to overtime. It was a tough game for them through all four quarters, despite Jamir Gibbs having such a great game.

It felt like the rest of the offense really couldn't figure it out. Defense couldn't stop James who made a bunch of big plays until Jemir rips that one off in overtime, a 69-yard run. Two touchdown runs accounted for 118 yards of his 219 total yards. He was the guy for this team, and that's why once he got in the end zone, that was the first time Lions fans could think, oh my God, we may actually avoid disaster right now. And it's all because of the guy in the backfield with Gibbs in the back of his jersey.

Yeah, they were down 2717 after Winston passed a Gunner Olshevsky. he uh or passed from gunner olshevsky and then immediately Gibbs responds so they're down 10 points in the fourth quarter Gibbs responds with a 49 yard touchdown run that is epic like all time great barry sanders like hall of fame type stuff just putting the team on his back yeah and he's finishing those runs that there was the he also almost had another long touchdown run in the second half where the giants were able to get him out of pounds inside the five and all that did was delay the Jamir Gibbs touchdown reception where he catches the ball and extends to get across the pilot. Just a great game from Gibbs where you wonder, you look at the numbers and Jamir Gibbs is averaging 14 yards of carry.

And it's like, how is how is this possible that the game goes to overtime when your best player on offense is averaging 14 yards of carry? That's because they couldn't stop James in the first half. He had 200 passing yards and two touchdowns in the first half. Like Wondell Robinson was almost a fantasy wide receiver one. purely off of what he did in the first half. It was so much offensive success where it's like, why have we been keeping Jamis and Mike Kafka wrapped up?

Every Giants game could have potentially been like this, but instead we got the 2025 job. Oh, it goes back to what I've been thinking ever since DART came in and Winston. It's like, Dable and this entire organization deserves everything they got for starting Russell Wilson in the first place. There was a lot of evidence

that James Winston was a much better. quarterback entering 2025 than Russell Wilson. And in Wondale, yeah, had 1.35 before half. You didn't like my Russell Wilson burial there? No, I was reminded that there was another team that was up three in the fourth quarter late with a goal to go situation and eschewed the field goal, ultimately leading to the loss. And that was a decision by Mike Kafka. They were up 27 to 24.

They had a fourth down and goal. And they had an incomplete pass. Detroit didn't have to use use their timeout. Malik Neighbors is watching from home and sends out this. Sometimes I think they'd be making us lose on purpose because there's no way.

You throw the ball instead of running it to make them burn two timeouts. Then you don't kick the field goal. They have to go down and score. Football common sense. Am I missing something? That's what Malik Neighbors said during the game. I love that he posted that.

And I appreciate. Oh, we got the tweet. You shortening it while reading it. No, but you left out the four slammers. that he put behind football common sense exclamation point four times am I missing something

and you're right that drive for the Giants ended with what under three minutes to go in the game and it ends up being a Jake Bates it took the lines that long Jake Bates 59 yard field goal

or else they would have lost that game and yeah that was an unconventional decision I do think the kickoff rule right or wrong is playing a pretty big role in the coach's decisions to do this because they're thinking okay if we hit the field goal we're up six but the the kickoff is probably coming out to the 30 the 35 that's like 30 yards of field position whereas in the past it would have been maybe 20 you don't like it should I push back against that because you still have to force that team

to go down and get a touchdown and what's what's the role the worst place to be is up six in a game because you can still lose and they you know they have to go get a touchdown that's fine because in this game, the lions were struggling to do anything outside of Gibbs ripping one off. I would trust my defense in that scenario and kick the three, go up by six, so they don't run the risk of Jake Bates hitting the game tire, which, by the way,

the one he made to send it to overtime just barely snuck in there. Imagine if you're up six, and they had to fight just to get into position there, so I disagree with that. But I do, I agree with what you're saying overall because field position, I think, plays a big part in a lot of these decisions, but in this one specifically, you kick the field goal. You take the points every time.

And that's not with the benefit of hindsight. But it's also not just the fourth down decision on the incomplete pass. There was the second down decision to throw the ball at all that stopped the clock after the lions had called a timeout. I think that's the one that bothers Malik neighbors. And maybe me. Wait, the wide open throw that James Winston missed? I mean, I can't kill that.

That just he missed the throw, which is a very unfortunately kind of like Jamesy ending because he was incredible in this game. Can we at least listen to the receiving touchdown? This is one of the plays of the year. First intended to Detroit 33. Pistol formation, Singletary's the back behind Winston. Winston pumps his right leg, takes the snap, play fake. They run an end-around for O'Shecki, who's going to throw it.

He does throw it down the left-side line for Winston. Oh, he's adjusting in air. James reaching, fighting it is in for the touchdown. Holy cow! O'Sheske with a touchdown pass. Double all people. James Winston. Oh my goodness.

That's Bob Papa. Oh my gosh. A WFAN and Carl Banks. The transition to the celebration in front of the camera, put that on the James Winston Hall of Fame reel. That's beautiful.

The famous dual sport athlete at Florida State, who at quarterback is one of the more awkward movers in NFL history. Somehow gets past the line of scrimmage shook and turns into

an exciting athlete where Derek Barnes has the worst rep I've ever seen him have as James, not only adjusts to the football, but stiff arms barn steps out of it and goes into the end zone. I saw some shades of plaquesco burst there on that catch. I mean, just boxing out the defender and breaking the tackle, adjusting to it in midair. When Olshevsky stepped up, by the way, because he had to step up into a pocket that just became a pocket in the middle of the play. I thought there's no way he's throwing it to James downfield. And then he lets it go. And I'm like, oh my God, James is there. And as soon as he boxed him out, that's, and I was like, oh, this is amazing.

The broken tackle was the cherry on top. Add the celebration, you're right. Hall of Fame reel, right? And that was the second trick play that worked for them. They had a throwback pass to James earlier that he had for a touchdown to Juan Dale Robinson to open the scoring. Wild day.

Yeah, that was a 39-yarder from James. There was a third in 10 from his own end zone where he throws it totally under fire, a ball that I thought might have scraped the top of the dome. And it goes to, to Isaiah Hodgins complete down the field. Just amazing timing, hutzpah, everything and talent out of Jamis and Hodgins there. And then he has a third and 17 later in that drive.

So I disagree with you both. After hitting those plays, you know, James didn't execute on the play on the goal line, but you have a guy open on the goal line. You could go win the game right there. And Nick used the phrase, trust your defense with the 2025 Giants defense. I'm never trusting that defense.

They just lost. They just lost. I mean, they can get after Jared Gough, you know, Brian Burns. Although on that last drive, Brian Burns did go take a breather. So maybe you're right. And yeah, it's crazy. The Gibbs Day has great, like, they have really leaned into playing him more. 48 snaps to 22 for Montgomery.

And I know he hit those two big plays, and that's like most of his yard. But he had a 75% success or 77% success rate on his runs today. So it was not even just the long ones. Put that man in whatever conversation you want. offensive player of the year, I guess. And I'm glad, because if the Lions had lost on that play to James wins,

I think you just have to eliminate them from playoff contention. I just think your season's over. Wow. You just have to go home. So it's a good thing. Like a new rule? It's just a new rule. They're seven and more. And man, this NFC North, like all the teams are a little bit flawed.

Really I have no idea who's going to go out on top. Let's talk about another one. After this break, we will go to Lambo Field. Hey, what's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. If you love breaking down football

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I buy anything from teams and players making waves to pop culture. And I'll take you inside my journey through my 15th season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season, the season of more, on the Off the Edge with Cam Joined podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Brought to you by Liberty Mutual Insurance. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. It is second down and goal to go inside the one-yard line. Love under center. Wilson the loan back. They've got a wing set up in the right side. And Love takes

Hand off up the middle. It's Wilson to the end. A touchdown! And the Packers cash in and take a 16 to 6 lead. Emmanuel Wilson. Congratulations to that young man. Congratulations to the people who picked them up in fantasy and just played him right away.

Congratulations to the Green Bay Packers, who are 7, 3, and 1. They destroy the Minnesota Vikings, 23 to 6 in a game where it felt like the Vikings were not getting into double digits, shook if you gave them another 60 minutes of play. Yeah, you're absolutely right. In fact, it was so apparent that they weren't getting into double digits that Matt LaFleur perhaps uncharacteristically just leaned on the run in the second half,

played as conservatively as possible, just run heavy, not taking any chances, settling for field goals, just slowly building that lead because he watched his defense dominate J.J. McCarthy and the whole Vikings' offense, especially in the second half. By the end of this game, the Vikings, they had 10 total net yards in the second half. 10. At one point in the fourth quarter, they were at negative 11. They were being outgained something like 140 to negative 11. Complete domination, started with the Packers defense,

and the offense was able to just ride the ground game, didn't need Jordan Love to be a hero. And they were able to ride the ground game without Josh Jacobs because of Emmanuel Wilson. Great day for him with a career high, 107 and two touchdowns and a feel-good win for the Packers who have to really like what they're seeing from their defense. Yeah, the defense has taken over against some lackluster offensive competition.

We'll get to the JJ McCarthy of it all. But what did you see out of the defense in terms of averaging or only allowing 2.2 yards per pass play out of the Vikings and then picking them off a couple times late? I saw a very consistently collapsed pocket. And some of it had to do with JJ holding onto the ball for an extra beat, which we know that's typical of him so far in his pro career and dating back to when he was at Michigan as well.

But it was a pass rush that came at you from every angle. It wasn't just Micah Parsons. It was Rashon Gary. It was Devante Wyatt. They were game wreckers coming from all different directions. And especially after, you know, there's a bit of a shuffle on the offensive line. Like, it just gets worse and worse for McCarthy and the entire offense, but they just had no hope.

They were backed up inside their five at one point. And McCarthy twice had to run forward just to avoid getting sacked for a safety. It was complete dominance. and it wasn't just one guy. Parsons obviously does a big part of it, but this is a complete defensive unit just imposing their will in Minnesota. Before I move to the JJ of it all,

actually just how did Jordan Love look like health-wise because I did not have eyes on this too much and it just felt like maybe that was part of the decision-making with all the running too? That was. And it was actually a point in the broadcasts where, I think it was Greg Olson on the call, who was consistently noting that he was handing it off

with the wrong hand oftentimes, which indicates that he might be, dealing with something. And it was an unremarkable game from him by design. He finished his 14 and 21 for 139. But if you had to recap that game, he doesn't play much of a part in it. And I think a lot of it was just built around protecting and avoiding risk. And because their defense was so good, they were able to do that. So it's something that we have to, I think, continue to monitor, especially in what has been a very up and down season for Jordan Love overall. But on a day like today, it didn't really matter much, which is good for them. Yeah. And they're heading into just that

monster Thanksgiving game against the Lions. This is one of the best Thanksgiving slates we've had just because the games are so meaningful. It's now that time, unfortunately, that we do have to talk about J.J. McCarthy, which at this point it doesn't feel like fun. First, let's

actually let Wayne Larravee from WR&W talk a little bit about J.J. McCarthy, at least his last pick of the day. Slot to the left side. Jefferson, Y, to the left. Valentine, that way as well. Safeties are high. Coverage is soft. Here's the snap.

McCarthy looks, fires left side, and it's intercepted on the overthrow. Intercepted on the player of the his second game in a row with an interception. And that will do it. Evan Williams delivers his second consecutive dagger. Love a second consecutive dagger.

We thought about listening to Paul Allen on Minnesota, you know, just for the kind of disappointment of it all. But it just seemed mean and like he might be over. At that point of the game, they're four and seven. Like he didn't even really have the juice to be that sad. Yeah, we heard Paul on the downside last week. We had a chance to listen to it before the show. It's not a person who expected a different outcome at this point.

The offense struggling, J.J. McCarthy with a big overstride on that overthrow to Jalen Naylor, who you wanted that ball on the inside, but yeah, the emotions come through from Paul, one of the best in the game, but he's, he's honest. He's honest in the way he feels about it. It's not a good feeling in Minnesota right now. I don't know if I've ever seen this. Like, JJ had a negative 0.65 EPA per play today. And before those last two interceptions, it was actually negative like point four something. So it wasn't even just the turnovers. That means every time J.J. McCarthy is dropping back to pass, like they're giving up two-thirds of a point. It's just a crazy stat. What, like, what did it look like when you're

trying to isolate his play, Shuck, versus just the Packers defense playing well? Yeah, I mean, that's how ineffective they are as a passing offense with JJ quarterback. It's funny because I brought up the Matt LaFlor leaning on the run in the second half. Kevin O'Connell tried to do that in the first half, like more than probably he's done the entire season. And it kept them competitive, but it also felt intentional as if to not throw his quarterback to the wolves. But if this is your starter and you want to contend with him eventually you're going to have to test him and in the second half they had to test him because they were the deficit was increasing incrementally and ultimately he failed that test and what you see from him is inconsistent feet which o'connell has talked about

trying to marry the eyes and the feet and you see somebody who is not entirely confident in the decisions that he makes whether it's with timing hesitating for half a beat or a full beat whether he the pockets collapsing on him he doesn't sense the rush which has been an issue he gets his arm hit on his first pick, which sends it flying right into the hands of a defender for an interception. Or it's just the fact that he doesn't seem like he's up to speed with the game. And then when he sails that pass, that's one of the few times that he throws it in rhythm with obviously a very big stride footwork again, not working very well, but he sales it. To the point where you get the leap from Jalen Niller, as if he's like, I have no shot of

getting that ball. This is just what we're dealing with right now. It's got to be so frustrating to be a Vikings receiver right now, knowing that the guy who's directing your offense can do, makes some magic, but the quarterback just can't make it happen. Very difficult decision for Kevin O'Connell, I think, whether to keep playing him, because he's at a, like, Zach Wilson, early Zach Wilson level right now, where it just feels like maybe you owe it to the team to give Brosmer a chance for a couple weeks and just see if that's any better. Let's listen to KOC after the game. I still believe, you know, he's absolutely under control from a play call standpoint.

There's little things, you know, that happen. like a quarterback getting tripped up, you know, on a play pass where you might have a look at something or, you know, just maybe the dialogue and the huddle, making sure all 11 are on the same page. There's little things that come up here and there that just continue to limit your chances of having ultimate success enough against a good defense to go put points on the board. But it is one of those things where I do believe wholeheartedly that, you know, it takes a drive or two of confidence building to truly cement kind of what we want to be as an offense. So if their season was not over before this week, it is now. And unfortunately, they had some major injuries in this game, too. Donovan Jackson, their first round guard goes out late. Christian Dara saw their left tackle was hurt during the game, as you kind of heard alluded to in the call.

And Josh Mattelis, their great safety was also hurt. So when it rains, it pours for the Vikings. But, yeah, the Packers set up a really big one on Thanksgiving. We'll be talking about that. On Tuesday, we'll be our Thanksgiving preview. Let's wrap up the NFC North here with the team that was leading the division heading into Sunday. Fourth and six, 21 seconds. Snap back, Rudolph, Bill left.

It was batted down. Bears are going to win this one. Batting down again. The Bears got their hands up on fourth down at six, and we got to fade to black. Oh, it's Jeff Jodiac. He's on this show every freaking week. 31, 28. Bears survive. Another one this time over the Pittsburgh Steelers. So that's a win, what, by three points today. Two points last week, four points a few weeks back before that.

And five points against the Bengals. They are a team that finds a way to get it done. How do they get it done today, Patrick? Well, I will call it because I thought of a name for Dennis Allen's defense. They are the bend and break their hearts defense from the Chicago Bears, where it works once again. The Steelers amassed 345 net yards. They outgain the Bears. They converted 8 to 14 first downs. They got big chunk plays like Kenneth Gainwell on a fake push push where all the fake

tush pushes are way more successful than the actual tush pushes going around the league. Kenny G had a 52 yarder somehow didn't get in, but they don't let him score. they let Jalen Warren score, by the way, Greg. That's right. So Kenny G. leads the Steelers in rushing, but you get another great Nashan Wright interception where he almost does the same thing he did last week, where it's a great one-hand essentially interception

to rob D.K. Metcalf of a completion on the sideline. And then late, you get Montez Sweat, getting the Bears an extra possession with a strip sack. He has six and a half sacks over his last six games. And yeah, they give up yards, but this team is going to get the ball from you, get an extra possession or two in this instance and get enough to hold on

and get a win in the fourth quarter against a Steelers team with Mason Rudolph that did move the ball. They lost me, D.K. Metcalfe for a stretch in this game. He would eventually come back. Joey Porter Jr. also left this game which had an impact on the defense but you get three touchdowns from Caleb.

Nice work with the ball. He did end up falling victim to T.J. Watt had another strip sack. Herbig jumped on top of it for a touch. down 115 career sacks for T.J. Watt. He passed J.J. Watt. Famously, Justin James Watt, who played for the Houston Texans. So, Greg, I'm going to ask you, how many sacks does T.J. need to, in your mind, be a better player than J.J. Watt. I don't think there's a number.

Oh. I think what T.J. would have to do is be one of the best players ever for like a couple seasons in a row. And I, and it's crazy to say that because you're making me, you're the one that says, oh, you don't like to compare him. Yeah, I know, but they're brothers and the stat was there. So I was saying. T.J. Watt is a inner circle first ballot, Hall of Famer. Yep. And yet, I don't think there's anything he could do because I think J.J. Watt is the best defensive player since I started covering football, which is like 20 something years now, which is crazy, 20 years. Yeah, I think he's the best. So I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think T.J. could get it. Number five, by the way, on our top 25 players of the last

25 years. You know what? TJ was on that list. Yeah. The credit to him. Just down because there's nothing he can do. He was like 21. He can, he can climb that list, but getting into the top five would be tough. There was not he could do on one of the biggest defensive possessions because the Steelers, again, that chances in the second half. There was a third down where the Steelers secondary just releases DJ Moore to the grass. They were trying to pass DJ Moore on. Essentially, there was no defender there. And so Caleb Williams hits him for his third touchdown of the day. There's a chance, though, with Mason Rudolph in a comeback attempt,

he hit Pat Friermouth for six and then got the ball back with a minute and 29 seconds to go. But there was Jaquine Bristker on fourth down, the call that you heard from Joniak as they fade to black and the bears get another big one. Hell, let's listen to another call from Joniak. Could that play? Because to me, it was typical of what we've seen a little too often from the Steelers defense this year. Third down and six. Shotgun snap.

Caleb taps the ball, blowing open down the scene end zone. Touchdown. DJ Moore. Touchdown Bears, baby. Bears have taken the league. I mean, there's nobody on the screen. You just see that more often. And in a game where the Steelers had a higher success rate passing the ball, a higher success rate running the ball, you just see these mistakes sometimes from the Steelers' defense.

And they're just not as complete as you want them to be. Ultimately, I guess we get Aaron Rogers back next week. Mike Tomlin said after the game. I thought it might look a little different with Mason Rudolph. And it ultimately didn't really. We did not have a wide receiver top 36 yards in this game shook. No, and that's not surprising. What infuriates me with the Steelers team is you just never get the complimentary football.

You get one week where the defense is really good. Like last week against Cincinnati, you get this week where the offense isn't great, but statistically they put up, you know, 345 yards. They're in the game. It's 3128s the vinyl. And the defense drops. the ball. And that is why I think that they perfectly represent their record at 6 and 5 now. They are a near 500 team with the potential to, you know, put together a great performance against

a good team and challenge them, but ultimately cannot be trusted to produce in big spots against red hot teams like the Bears, especially on the road, which is a bummer. And I don't think Aaron Rogers makes that any better for them, unfortunately. Yeah, they, Caleb Williams' play was probably the worst sack that he's took this year in terms of not understanding, you he needed to get rid of the ball there and spinning back. But a Bears fan hit me up after that. When I was like, the difference is now the Bears have a Caleb Williams, a quarterback, and he's playing the way where immediately he responds with like a touchdown drive after that.

So kudos to the Bears staying atop this division. And kudos to Ben Johnson, proven all those people wrong who said that he just didn't have it as like a leader. Is he a leader of men or is he some sort of egghead? I mean, he might be the biggest star in the locker room this year. Hell yeah! Man, I tell you what, it takes a village. It takes a village. And I'm talking about players.

I'm talking about coaches. I'm talking about training staff. I'm talking about everybody in this building. And here we are. Back half the season and our depth is being tested. All right? It would be so easy to walk. How are we going to win this game?

We got no linebackers. We got no lineback. Uh-huh, what are they talking about? We got no wine back. How are we going to wait? Yes. Yeah, they don't. You guys don't bat an eye.

Jordan Jackson. Oh, I love that. They have fun of Chicago. They, they're just going to start doing that. When you make a point, I'm just going to go, uh-huh. They got ad-libs in the locker room.

They're doing straight up Migos ad-libs for Ben Johnson. Uh-huh. That's how you know you got it, man. Go bears. Eight and three. Mama. Mama. Let's just go.

Let's go to Tennessee, Seattle. Oh, my gosh. Actually, let's not go. Let's just point out the fact that the Steelers fell to six and five today. And after having such a big lead in the AFC North, there was a risk, yes, that they gave up that division lead before Thanksgiving. The Ravens will go for it on fourth and goal. Andre Hopkins splits out wide to the right,

Zay Flowers to the left. Derek Henry alone in the backfield. Lamar under center on fourth and goal from the jet. That's two. But give us to Henry, right side. He's got a hole. He's in. Touchdown to Ravens.

Easy peasy, Derek Henry, and that run. But it was not an easy game. I'm sick of my head. For Derek Henry and this Ravens team. Trailed at halftime. Struggled with an opponent that they would seem to overmatch on paper again, but end up winning by a couple scores. Again, these games have been consistent, Patrick, 23 to 10.

Does that make you feel any better? No, it did not make me feel better because the concerns over the past few weeks of eight moving around more slowly and sluggish and looking like he's uncomfortable in the pocket. Today was the biggest example of that in a game where Terad Taylor had more passing yards, more completions, and more touchdowns than Lamar, who was coming off a streak of 30 consecutive games. with a touchdown pass. And now there's no touchdowns in his last two games. You have to go back to 2019 for that. And other than literally the Derek Henry touchdown run, which Pat Ricard comes around and blows up that side

of the field, they get blocking on that play. And Henry is able to walk in. Everything was a slog. It was difficult. Kyle Hamilton left the game multiple times, comes back in, which is something that, you know, you grow accustomed to Kyle Hamilton doing at this point.

Did he finish the game? He didn't finish the game. He went into the locker. locker room stayed in after the game. Coach Harbaal said nothing major concerning at this point for Kyle Hamilton, which is good news, because the defense once again held the opponent under 20 points and the offense just scratched out enough in this sense, but the way things are currently constructed and they're currently playing on offense where receivers aren't necessarily getting a ton of separation. The time is a little, you know, Lamar had a lot of time to throw,

which he typically does because he extends plays, but his ability to be explosive back there is a big part of holding the ball and clearly not 100% and the whole offense in general is not at 100%. Yeah, they were held under 250 yards against a Jets team. It's almost doing it perfectly

in terms of they're competing every week, but there are probably some fans that wouldn't mind getting a higher traffic. They're not embarrassing themselves. They've definitely improved on defense especially. They hold the Ravens under 200 and 50 yards. Now, the Ravens have held

six straight opponents under 20 points. And one of them was the Rams. The rest of them, you know, and one of them was the Bears, who is a very good offense. They have found

different formulas to win. You're an AFC North expert, shook, having lived in Ohio. How are you feeling about the fact that everyone was right? Yeah, the Ravens are going to catch the Steelers.

They've already caught them. I mean, it's a tie, but they're winning the tiebreaker right now. How do you feel about where this Ravens team is at, though, with these wins like Vikings, this Browns game, the Jets game, even the, even the Dolphins game, they all feel pretty similar? Yeah, I mean, you can sound cliche and just say it wins a win, right? And that's really what matters most for them at this point.

I would like to think that they're a team that's going to peak at the right time. And they're just kind of building that way. It's just that it's so small in increments that there's not really like a case building that that's actually going to come to fruition. And it starts with Lamar. but the side that you had to be really confident in is this defense for what you just said, holding a bunch of teams under 20 points. Ever since they acquired a Lowy Gilman, they've been able to go to this three safety look

that's allowed them to look, you know, present so many different defensive looks for opposing quarterbacks that they're just super effective in coverage. They can do a number of different things with a personnel grouping that is unorthodox by today's standard, even in the world that we live in where everybody's pretty much running nickel defense is their base defense. And I think that that is what's going to carry them through this period. And you hope that eventually Lamar gets healthy enough or comfortable enough that their offense opens back up because it just hasn't. And I think that when they played the Browns last week, that did not do them a favor because they couldn't get in any rhythm in that game because that Brown's defense was all over them.

And so it's not surprising to see them only put up 23 points and struggle in a game like this. It was the perfect time for the Jets to turn to tie rod as opposed to Justin Fields to give them a chance to be competitive, which I think played a part in this game. But ultimately, when I look at the Ravens, I'm still very confident that they're going to win the division. they're going to be in the playoffs, and you hope that they peak at the right time so you can take them seriously as a team that can win in the playoffs. I just, you know, I want to look at it closer,

but on a day where the Jets got like no pass rush, their pressure rate is really low and the Ravens' offense has like a very low success rate against the Jets. A little surprising, 35% compared to 50% for the Jets, but they are in first place and they will be playing on Thanksgiving night against the Bengals.

And yes, they'll have to try to win that game to stay atop the NFC or the AFC North. Let's now flip over to the NFC and see if the Seahawks could take care of business down in Tennessee. Third down and six. Slot to the near side.

Smith and Jigba now comes over from left to right. Four-man rush. Garnel has time. Going to let it fly. Got a man, J.S.N. Makes the catch. Makes the tackle. He's going to back into the end zone for a touchdown. Seahawks.

63 yards. Single coverage. You guys know better than that, Tennessee. Do they? That was actually one of two different times on this day where they got Jackson, Smith, and Jigba singled up on a safety, and he took it to the house. Well, not each time.

Eight for 167 and two touchdowns overall. Not only did he have that. That long one, he also had a 56-yarder in the game that did not go for a score. Jackson Smith & Jigba has set the all-time franchise record for yards by a Seahawks receiver in a season. In week 12? In week 12. You know how you always have to be like, well, you know, the seasons line. Like, there was never a season that was shorter than 12 games.

It's ridiculous. He is really incredible. and I'll just say it here, Patrick. Score this one for the Jackson Smith and Jigba MVP campaign. I think at a certain point, after the four INT game, perhaps we don't give these points to Sam Darnold anymore. If the Seahawks win, those points generally are going to J.S. And Darnold had an uneven game.

I know the stats look great and those, I mean, every one of his deep throws does, JSN is like better than the last. It was really awesome. Like that particular throw, but the other deep one was great too. But he had a couple turnover worthy plays in this game. He was lucky not to get picked off a couple different times.

It didn't happen. And so they got away with it. And overall, 30 to 24 is the final score. And it was not as close as that would indicate. Because Chimari DK, who might be making All-Pro as a return man, as a rookie, which is pretty great for the Titans, returned another punt return.

So that's one of the Titans touchdowns. And then they had a never-ending drive at the end of the game. They ended their chance to win with a touchdown drive. They did. It really did feel like they were kind of just trying to score

to make themselves feel better. But it took forever for them to score at the end of the game and essentially ended the game. And if you watch Mike McCoy, the interim head coach's press conference after it, you would have thought they won the game. They were so happy.

And I think that was because Cam Ward played awesome in this game. It was his best game. of the season. It was one of the best games any quarterback has had against the Seahawks. And if nothing else, he also led the team in rushing. That was one reason why they were not competitive in this game, is they had their success rate was through the floor in terms of Tony Pollard and Tyssey Spears. But Cam Ward looked great. I'm not sure we can really draw much else from Titans games for the rest of the year. No, and I think that's got to be the

focus from here on out is how much progress does Cam Ward make? Him and Chimira D.K. and E. A. Manor, like the future of the team. Kind of worry about the running game. I mean, I have a lot of respect for Tony Pollard, but I also know that the offensive line, no matter how much they've invested in it, is just not a good group and it's not good for run blocking. So I don't hold that against Tony Pollard necessarily, but it's got to be all about Cam Ward because that is obviously your franchise quarterback. You spent the number one pick on him. And you're also going to have a really high pick again. And you don't have to spend it on quarterback as long as you keep him on that path. So it's really encouraging to see him have, you know, the best game of his season. Because, you know, like when I do QB index, he's always in that lower third, but I kind of want to nudge him up. He never has like a bad game. It's just that the Titans are so bad that he can only do so much. And so to see him have a good game like this, it gives me a lot of, you know, reason to bump him up because I think he's been fairly steady in most of his games this season. I was locked into this one and I was noting at halftime and even going into the third quarter, they had three points at that point. And then he missed a throw on a score.

screen to Spears. And I was like, that's the first even minor mistake Cam Ward has made in this game. He was playing about a perfect game. And yet they had three points on the board, which I think goes to it. And then statement to what the Titans are. Right. It really, but he, he hits a deep shot. He has another deep shot that hits his receiver in the hands. He has a play, a dime over the middle to James Prochet. They started Van Jefferson, Chimera, D.K. and James Prochay at wide receiver. The leading receiver is Gunner Helm on this day. And the coaches have been telling Ward to run more. And I think it was a coaching point in this game because there were many key important moments where he did run the ball and get first downs with his legs. And then, yeah, if you're watching this game on

YouTube, you'll see this isn't a throw of the year candidate. Because if we had Cam Ward throwing the ball against his body, across his body while going out of bounds, like another one. I think we have seven of them this year, but there was a crazy third and I. That was just awesome to Xavier Restrepo, who Titans, you know, fans have been calling for all season and they got him. He had a lot more conventional throws in this game, but it was nice to see the Cam Ward special. Yeah, they were calling for him because it's, we know, we've, it's ineligible because we do have Cam Ward fade away out of bounds shots, but none took Xavier Strepo because that's his first career catch on that great ball from Cam Ward where it was all day.

He was pressured on 42% of his dropbacks. In those dropbacks, he was 9 of 14 for 100 yards with a plus 11 completion percentage over expected against a defense that has dogged everybody, including, you know, the Rams got the win, but Matthew Stafford a couple weeks ago. And you might have thought, okay, well, Cam Ward holds on to the ball. That's why the pressure rate so high. No, in this game, he was getting rid of the ball for the most part. Derek Hall of the Seahawks had five quick pressures on his own.

the Seahawks actually, you know, struggled other than really Derek called to get like a ton of quick pressure, but for the most part, like they were better. I thought Kim Ward like for one game, like outplayed Sam Donald by just a little bit, but we shouldn't give too much credit. Seattle had a big lead in this game. They did what good teams need to do. And they did give the ball to Kenneth Walker a little more.

He played a higher percentage of snaps today, which I was interested to see. He had two thirds of the snaps and two thirds of the. touches and going into the week, they kind of said that that was what's going to happen. So they might be kind of riding Ken Walker and they ran the ball quite well today against the Titans. So they take care of business. Only three losses on the season, eight and three for the Seahawks. Let's take a break and we will be back on the other side. We have not checked in with the New England Patriots. No.

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radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Brought to you by Liberty Mutual Insurance. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. The Bengals of a two-by-two set, second down in five. Black goes under, center. The veteran quarterback with a play fake and a deep drop. On a time, a double five.

He's probably. Running outside, 15, 10, curving around, back pedaling over the end zone. It's Marcus Jones. Another pick six against Cincinnati. Oh, boy, I don't wake you up. It's amazing I'll coach you can't turn. You needed the touchdown on offense, and you needed to get off on defense.

Oh, that's Scott Zolek on WBZ, along with Bob Sochi. The Marcus Jones Pro Bowl season continues apace. He also had the game ceiling pass defense on the very last play of the game. Yes, the Cincinnati Bengals. were in it until the last play of the game. But the Patriots escaped 26 to 20. And Joe Flacco and all the magic that he's brought is, you know, come back to Earth.

They don't want to pick on him too much. But on the day where the Bengals' defense showed up, shook, and got a lot of stops in the red zone, especially on the one yard line. The Bengals' offense without Jamar Chase and then without T. Higgins late in the game wasn't up for the challenge. Yeah, there was even a bad sequence in the fourth quarter. where Yoshavos goes down,

Andre Yoshavos goes down, the next play, T. Higgins goes down. And you're like, oh, man, what else do the Bengals have to deal with? It's already a rough day for them offensively. But, you know, not to start negative in everything, but that's kind of the story of the game is that their defense gave them chances. They made it tough for Drake May and the Patriots offense throughout most of the day, and the Bengals' offense simply couldn't capitalize.

Now, that pick six that we just played was Joe Flacko's second pick six in as many weeks. And each of them are equally as ugly, which kind of just captures where the Bengals offense is right now. And in games in which their defense does show up and their offense fails to show up or at least do their part, that explains why they've lost both of those games and why they're three and eight right now. Now on the Patriots side, you give them credit because Drake May, they got enough done in the first half to be able to just kind of chip away with the field goals, but they need to look really inward here going forward at their red zone offense because it was bad today.

They had a sequence of nine plays, six of which were on the Bengals one. And they didn't get any points out of it. They went back down there again. Four plays. The last one, field goal because Mike Frable learned from the earlier go for an attempt and decided, let's just take the points. Three points counts, Patrick. It's a good thing. He took the points because that's what they won't by six. It was a rage field goal decision. You look over the camera cuts to Mike Frable to see what he's going to do. He's already got three fingers up in very frustrated, uh, fashion because they, it wasn't just a goal on stop on third down angle on the previous goal line stand. They got a, they got a holding penalty, that gave them first and goal again.

And they still didn't get it. They had seven snaps total from the one because there was one other one on the ensuing drive that they got from the one. They didn't score one time. And that's why I worry for this Patriots team, which is 10 and 2, but lost the left side of their offensive line to injuries today. Jared Wilson, you know, their third round pick who's been playing left guard for them and has had his share of struggles this year is carted off today with an injury.

and then Will Campbell is carted off with a knee injury. He had the towel over his head as he was carted off. It didn't look good. We're not going to speculate at this point. But obviously, if they lose both those guys, especially Campbell, who has stabilized that left tackle and been playing really solid for them, they could be in trouble because I saw something written about this game

that's like, you know, the Patriots rookies have helped to change their offensive line from embarrassing to above average this season, and now they'll be tested. And I'm like, they're not above average. They've been bad. Will Campbell's probably been their best player at left tackle, but they've just gone from by far the league's worst to like acceptable in parts. But their running game has been terrible for a reason. And it's their offensive line.

The red zone offense you mentioned today. And Drake May, entering this week, has faced the second most amount of quick pressures in the entire NFL. Only the chargers have been worse in terms of quick pressures. So these injuries, I think really calls into question how they're going to construct an offense moving forward. Yeah, absolutely, especially when you can't consistently run the ball. And now you've lost half of your offensive line. So you're definitely not going to be able to consistently run the ball.

It's just going to put more on the shoulders of Drake May, which to this point, he's been able to handle it. And you give him credit for that. But I think today was the first preview of what it might look like if he's not able to handle it. Or if the road is just too bumpy for him to find, you know, a steady rhythm. Because that's basically what this entire offense was in the second half, him missing throws. him being pressured and rolling out and not having time to throw or find somebody. People not getting open. The one time he throws a touchdown pass in the end zone,

it's a product of an offensive pass interference because it's a pick play. Like these are challenges that they're going to encounter going forward if they are limited offensively. Too much is going to be on their quarterback. And that is why you should be concerned about them. But I'm not going to take away from the fact that they're the first team to 10 wins in the NFL, all right? I'll give that to that credit.

No, that's amazing. And the bills lose earlier in the week. they're up two and a half games in the standings, a couple games in the lost column. Those games against the Bills and Ravens look even more interesting coming up, but I think they're going to have to have their defense step up.

It's not just about one side of the ball. I think they could do it. They did get Kayshan Bouty back today and Ramandre Stevenson back today and they made it work. And the Bengals who might get Joe Burrow back on Thanksgiving, just to entertain us more.

It's massive. Yes. Sneakily, Booty is massive, Greg, as his return helps as a team that has relied on explosive plays. Didn't get very many today. I thought there was going to be a great opportunity with the matchup. But as you mentioned, Al

Golden's defense stood strong and the gift basket may need to go from Foxborough to Jalen Ramsey for being involved in this situation where if Jamar Chase is in this game because should pointed it out, Yoshi goes down, there's no Higgins, relying heavily on Mitch Tinsley

in the fourth quarter who did have a touchdown catch where if Joe has more options that he's not looking staring down the checkdown in the flat for Marcus Jones to take the other way this game is entirely different. Preseason superstar Mitch Tinsley. That's why you watch the

games in August. Man. Yeah, and it's unfortunate we almost certainly won't get to see T. Higgins on Thanksgiving. Jamar Chase will be eligible to be back. T. Hingens' mom did tweet out that she thought, you know, her son was okay. And by that, I think just like feeling okay,

but it would be surprising, you know, if he goes through the protocol quick enough to play on Thursday night. So they'll have that game against the Ravens. Let's go to Arizona, the game that truly made Patrick lose his mind. They're not showing blitz. They send four. Here we go. Percent drops to throw. Looking, looking.

Fires it deep down field. That ball is going to be not the way, not the way. They knocked away. The Jack winning in overtime with another terrific defensive play. All these cardiac cats, they win it again. A huge win on the road

for the Jacksonville Jaguar. They're back to being fun. And it certainly was messy. 27 to 24. In just like a connoisseurs delight. To me, this was a delightful game. I can't wait to watch it a little closer. Frank Frangy on WJXL watched it extremely close.

And yes, the Jaguars defense bales out, Liam Cohen, and Trevor Lawrence, who had four turnovers on the day, and they escaped the desert with a victory to get them to seven and four. But Patrick, I do want to hear about the decision-making process late in the game and what you thought of Liam Cohen and his fourth and one call. Liam Cohen and the Jacksonville Jaguars late in the fourth quarter

have an opportunity fourth and one to kick a field goal and go up six late and the models, both models, both widely distributed models, had a slim margin, but still a margin in favor of going for it. Liam Cohen ultimately decides

to have Trevor Lawrence throw the ball to Tim Patrick and it's incomplete with a minute and 43 seconds to go. So instead of a six-point lead with a minute 40, it is now a three-point lead. And Jacoby Percett promptly goes down the field. They get Chad Rylan on a kick, and the game goes to overtime.

How to throw at the end zone. I loved that little game management. By the way, Jacoby Percent does not spike the ball with about 15 seconds left. Instead, he runs the call there. I thought that was a veteran move and tries to get the defense not really ready for it. He gets a one-on-one on the side.

It doesn't work out. But yeah, it was a little next level. I think you've got to look at the game in front of you. And I think that was what's frustrating you. Because for the most part, the Jaguar's defense was playing pretty well in this game. And all they had to do was stop the Cardinals from scoring a touchdown with no timeout. And we've seen the impact that having more of their guys, of course, they're missing incredible amounts of pieces, including. the guy they traded up for in the top 10 of the NFL draft.

We hope to get back. But Devin Lloyd back in this game, who actually knocked Jacoby Brissette out of the game briefly, but because he's Jacobi Brissette and has his jersey in Canton, Ohio, he summons the will to come back into the game and be very successful. Five QB hits for Devin Lloyd. He's all over the place. It does everything for this defense where I would understand trusting the defense

where Josh Heinz Allen is having. a solid game, getting pressure, the, you know, Cardinals dealing with injuries of their own on offense and the Jags have been getting off the field. And it's one of those very frustrating games on the Jags offense where you get both good Trevor and bad Trevor trading places during the game. There was one interception in the red zone. I understand Calais Campbell's been playing football for 250 years. He jumps up, tips the ball, it gets picked off. Those types of things happen. Yes. The other two Trevor Lawrence interceptions were downright nasty. and kept the Cardinals in the game

where it's a weird dichotomy because they had a whole lot of success running the ball early, including with Trevor Lawrence and late in the game, you get that interception. They come back. Trevor and Jacobi Myers

hook up on back-to-back plays and get a touchdown. And it's like, yay, Jack's passing game. Next possession is a turnover where you're just not sure how this passing game's going to operate. I don't know what to think of this Jaguars team.

They had a design run success rate today of 20%. They're running. game was awful. So everyone's so mad at the play call on fourth and one, rolling Trevor Lawrence out. They did call a running play on third and one. And Basel Tootin, who I think's the better short yardage back, gets stuff. So their offensive line is just struggling. But that's why you just kick the field goal there. I think because of this situation, Trevor Lawrence has not shown you that he can be trusted. He doesn't even have an open receiver there. I mean, to watch that must

have felt so helpless for a Jaguars team. And then you watch... Jacoby Brissette do what Jacoby Brissette does and overcome the Zebras who gave them a terrible spot, which cost them about 40 seconds on the final drive because they didn't mark it as a first down and then they had to go for a fourth down. And instead of being able to spike the ball, it was a whole thing. And then, you know, he gets down and at least has a chance to go win the game. But when I watched this ending sequence, too shook, I thought like, Jonathan Gannon is a defense first coach. And I know they forced some turnovers today. But, but they never get the stop that they need.

It sucks because they keep losing close games, but they never get the stop that they need. It's the story of their season, the fourth quarter woes, and today was the fourth quarter of overtime woes. It was a really fun game because it was very back and forth in the final quarter, but that's not what you expect from your team when you have a defensive-minded coach like Jonathan again.

That's not what I expect. When I look at the Cardinals week by week and make my picks, I go, well, you know what, at least I trust their defense and now it's Jacoby Percette, so I trust him to give maximum effort and maybe throw them into situations in which they could potentially win. but then it's the fourth quarter problem you can't trust them in the final period

which is what happened for them today although it was really nice to see Greg Dorff get loose and move them into field goal range I thought I was kind of hoping they would spike it or something just to give himself maybe one more shot at the end zone before kicking the field goal

but it's fine okay I see what you're saying you could have maybe gotten two throws there and yes lined up with like 16 seconds so I was like spike it come on okay okay I think I get what he was thinking though I think he saw Like, they're a little frazzled trying to get set up, but I hear what you're saying. And Patrick and I had a long conversation about Greg Dorch in the newsroom where I said,

Greg Dorch is a championship level, fourth receiver. Like, if you get Dorch as your fourth receiver, you build everything out backwards from there. He can get you to the ship. So the Cardinals, at least they have that. They have that foundational piece of a receiving group, which is Greg Dorch is the one. And who knows, maybe the Cleveland Browns have. a foundational quarterback. Okay, I'm just

a little funny. Wind shot out, Samson in. You never know. It's possible. It's pushing into the backfield here. It's a three by one. Shador on third down, throws it. Sanson to the flat. Samson 35.

Samson 40. Samson, first down. He's at the Raider 35. It's a foot race. And he's gone. Dylan Simpson. Touchdown. And that is the longest play of the year

for your Cleveland round 66. cards to the house. Dylan Samson's second receiving touchdown. And for Shador Sanders, the first passing touchdown of his young NFL career. Oh, we haven't heard from Andrew Siciliano in too long. We love you, Andrew. Nathan Zagura, also on the call for WKRK.K. Browns win easy. 24 to 10 in Vegas. Yes, Shadur Sanders. The first rookie quarterback, or maybe debut quarterback for the Browns to win in the last 18 attempts. Wow.

It's a wild step. Do you know how old I was when they had a quarterback win his debut? How old? How old? I think I was two. Okay. No, Shitter didn't have to do a ton

of the heavy lifting. Obviously, on that play, it's a lot of yak, but he did have a beautiful throw early in the game. Quinshot Junkins with a couple rushing touchdowns, and more importantly, the defense just dominates the Raiders. What did you see out of Shadur, Nick, we'll start there.

Well, I anticipated a nasty game between two, two, and eight teams, and we got a bit of a nasty game, but what wasn't nasty with Shador? He looked better than he did in relief last week. You could tell it the week of preparation, gave him more confidence. He got the ball out on time. He didn't hold on to it very long, except for maybe one

or two plays, which is very encouraging, because that was his biggest weak point. He showed off his arm. The throw he has, it's like a 52-yard at Isaiah Bond that sets up a Quinn-Dudkin's touchdown. Rolling right, away from pressure fires it on the run over the DB, perfectly puts it on bond

for the big completion. That was at that point their longest play of the season before the Samson touchdown. So I thought that he executed in spots. It was uneven. It was pretty inconsistent. The offense is still a mess. It's still dysfunctional. They still are a low ceiling unit. But ultimately, he steadied them

enough and did enough things, made one bad mistake on an interception that's very typical of a rookie. So I say, decent, solid. Good thing to build on. Not a nightmare, which is more than they could say about most of their season. Yeah, and more than you can say about this Raider season. You don't want to go too crazy.

On a day, their drop-back success rate, the Browns was 23%, like they weren't consistently do it, but he did have a 39-yarder to Judy. You mentioned that play to Bonn, which is almost a replay of the chance he had to tie the game late last week to Isaiah Bonn. He missed it last week. He hits it today. Miles Garrett is doing unspeakable things on the football field. A couple more sacks today.

Was it two forced fumbles? What is it like watching Miles Garrett right now as a Browns fan? Well, it's interesting because, you know, Browns fans in the moment when they traded out of two back to five and took Mason Graham, a lot of them were upset because they wanted Travis Hunter. They wanted the new toy. But I think that they're all pretty happy with the decision that they made now

because Mason Graham, his arrival, has brought this defensive line to a higher level. Better than they were when they had Zadaria Smith and Miles Garrett or when they had Jadivian Clowney and Miles Garrett. because now there's interior pressure that is consistent and especially against an offensive line that's really bad in the Raiders. I mean, horrible, worse than you would ever imagine bad.

And then you deploy Miles Garrett against that and it's like watching a monster just feast. Just do whatever he wants. Just destroy a left tackle. Line up over the center and shoot the A gap. Cause all kinds of problems for Gino Smith. Make his day awful. Ten total sacks for the Browns.

Miles Garrett had three. He has 18. 18 with six games to pull. Like, he's going to break the record. Well, don't risk it. No, I'm saying it. I don't care. I don't care.

I don't care. He's going to break it. So Reggie White once had 19 sacks through the first 11 games of the season. That was in 1987. The previous record holder, Mark Gastineau, had 17 and a half sacks. And, of course, yes, Garrett gets more games to play with to try to break Michael Strayhand's record. He also had four TFLs today. So he is on an insane tackle for loss rate. two and it was three total sacks.

I only saw the two forced fumbles, but he had another one. And yeah, this season just can't end fast enough for the Raiders. They're getting worse, Greg. Yeah, they're the worst team in the NFL. They're worse than the Titans. It's not even close where I was,

that was my thoughts because I know we were, everybody was excited about the opportunity to see Shed Derr play. See Miles Garrett play against the worst offensive line that I have ever seen. I truly think, I believe at this point in the NFL. I have not seen an offensive line worse than this and Miles average

get off is still, you know, a 29 years old, 0.71 today, still getting off the line of scrimmage faster than anybody. And, you know, this line is overmatched everywhere, but definitely overmatched with the best defensive player that, you know, since

JJ Watt was doing things, since Aaron Donald was wrecking things, it's not even close. Miles is, shouldn't be on the same field as these guys. That's absolutely fair. So the Browns, three and eight, But they are 2-0 in Kevin Stefansky hot seat matchups. He had that one against Mike McDaniel

where I thought maybe the loser gets fired and they blew out the dolphins, but they didn't fire McDaniel. And then beats Pete Carroll, who is not having much fun in Vegas. Let's go to New Orleans where no one who was rooting for the home team was having any fun.

Here is cousins looking. He's going to sail it from Mooney. Donnell Mooney, touchdown Atlanta. Oh, my God. There were two black shirts back there. Thought they had good position. And Cousins dropped in in a bucket to Darnel Mooney. Big time throw from Kirk Cousins.

Oh, you can't keep Kirk Cousins down for too long, Patrick. No matter what you want to do, that's West Durham on WZGC. The Falcons win 24 to 10 on a day where, yes, their defense was the best unit on the field. The Saints' offense only scores three points. They get their only touchdown on a pick six, right, by Kirk Cousins. Wasn't there a pick six in this game or am I crazy? Yeah, no, Cousins, cousins threw a pick six. Thank you.

They got the score. They had chances, Greg, but they elected to not score and do other things. That's true. They elected to kick a field goal late, but yeah, there was a fourth down that they went for where Tassum Hill threw the ball instead of kicking a field goal. That didn't work. Look, we pick a lot of games throughout the course. course of the season, and we're going to be wrong so often. But for some reason, I feel like

you picking the Saints to win this game, Patrick, drove you more crazy than any pick you made all season. Yes. You were chugging Haterade as Kirk Cousins was piloting a two-play sequence where they got 81 yards off of a second and 24. That touchdown to Mooney was preceded by like a 40-yard screen to Bajon Robinson. Yeah, the screen came on second and 21 because Kirk, the pressure got to the saints get pressure on kirk cousins and it looked like typical 2025 kirk cousins where he wasn't sure what to do the pressure came he threw the ball to absolutely nobody the saints lobbying brian brucey arms out to the stripes where the referees do that thing where they have the long discussion and then they drop the flag out and you're thinking the saints got a chance

they got a chance they get off the field here they'll go back down and they're going to score this time no it's a screen to bison and then immediately darnel mooney and kirk cousins like dust off it looks like like prime darnel mooney and prime kirk cousins where it's like what are you doing saints what are the saints doing i love i love kirk was kind of like gearing back to get everything into that he put his heart and soul in that throw and uh they get a win which you know for the season they had anyone is going to feel good four and seven for the saints for the saints i mean for the falcons and the saints fans after that touchdown they all just left if if if you're watching that late in the game and like when they hit that touchdown to go up to touchdowns

There's about 10 minutes left. And it's not like you're really trying to beat traffic in New Orleans. Like, you're walking out of there. Or just the traffic's not that bad. It's fine. But people are just like, no, I've had enough of the New Orleans Saints. And just a sad performance. Tyler Shuck, Shooki, was the leading rusher on the day

where Alvin Camara left the game pretty early to injury. They had nothing going whatsoever on the ground. Taysam went 10 carries for 17 yards. Yeah, can we end this already? I'm pretty sure we've graduated from, the Taysom Hill experience is a ball care. I think we've proven that in previous weeks. Whenever Tyler Shuck, a guy who can improvise is your leading rusher, but is not the leading rusher that you want to run like the Titans want Cam Ward to run, you know you're in a bad

place. But when I look at this team defensively, and I think, well, how do you give up 24 points to Kirk Cousins and Darnell Mooney and the Atlanta Falcons and Bejohn Robinson and hell of a player? But here's how. Because I look at this group of players, and all I see is the 2010, 2011 Cleveland Cavaliers where it's Barron Davis and Luke Heron Goaty and Sean Livingston getting his last shot at the NBA which ends up getting him a spot with the Warriors.

Like it's a bunch of no names. This is a Saints team that is very clearly in a transition period right now. Shout out to Luke Aaron Goody. I didn't think I would ever hear about if you had not said his name, I would have never thought about Luke Aaron Goody ever again. My issue with the TASM experience today is it was

all the highest leverage plays in the game. Yeah. It was fourth and one in the red zone in a goal to go situation and then yeah let's get shuck out of here let's get tasem to come in and throw a pass he's over to uh through the air in this game where the it's not sneaking up on anybody at this point when tasem hill comes in it's not oh no what are the saints going to do it's the tasem hill package in the same tasem hill package now under three different coaching regimes where it's the same tasem hill package and let's let's get rid of it i don't want to see taste of no i don't it's um i don't know kellen moore's got that special connection he's got that

he's got that loyalty to his brother and um he just he just keeps giving it giving him the ball man kellen more just not inspiring uh in his first saints season let's take one final break and we'll get to a team that's uh been pretty inspiring all season yes it's the los angeles rams we're going to say goodbye to patrick bye everybody go say hello to the children I shall. Hey, what's up everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

If you love breaking down football from every angle, you're in the right place. Every week on Move the 6th, Bucke Brooks and I dive deep into the game from the X's and O's to the front office moves shaping the league. We kick things off with Brian Baudinger, breaking out what really went down on Sunday. It is as good at timing, rhythm. offense is there is in the league right now. Then Rhett Lewis joins us for our rookie draft and coordinator of the week, where we highlight the rising stars and the masterminds

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fantasy football podcast. It's right there in the name. Every week, Florio, LQ, and I bring you the latest news from around the league. We break down every matchup, give you our analysis and advice so you know who to start, sit, drop and trade to bring that championship trophy home. I just want to remind everyone how good Rishie Rice was last season. And there's three healthy games. He was the wide receiver 2 in fantasy.

I think Rishie Ryshe goes off this week. The Chiefs come on a flip pass to Rice. Near side, touchdown! Remandre Stevens is my sleeper this week. This is a matchout where I think I can slide in Stevenson into my flex position and he could deliver double-digit points this week. Drake takes the snap, hands it off. Remodry running it right and running into the end zone.

Touchdown! It's never too late to turn your fantasy season around. Subscribe to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up? It's Cam Jordan. I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast, the Off the Edge with Cam Jordan podcast.

Tap in every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars for the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment. About anything from teams and players making waves to pop culture. And I'll take you inside my journey through my 15th season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season, the season of more

on The Off the Edge with Cam Joined podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Brought to you by Liberty Mutual Insurance. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Stafford and the pistol

has to go up and over his left shoulder to catch the snap. Loxone, end zone. It's a touchdown. Devonte Adams racing underneath another. Matthew Stafford. 24 yards and you can let those MVP chance bring out again. One, two, three for Matthew Stafford and Devonte's got two.

It's back to a three-score lead. Matthew to Devonte. They are sizzling. They are sizzling. You know who else is sizzling? J.V. Long on KSBN. And that grunting in the background, our friend Maurice Jones, Jones Drew, the Rams make it a laffer on Sunday night football.

34 to 7, yes, if it's a day that ends in why Devante Adams is scoring a touchdown, often too. And this thing not only was over at halftime, 31 to 7 at halftime. There was not much more to play. We just got a field goal in the second half, and we were killing time, Chuck, because Baker Mayfield was out with a left shoulder injury. more on that in a second, but this was a night. I don't think it would have mattered if Baker was healthy or not. In fact, he was healthy until they were down three touchdowns. Man, when the

Rams offense is looking good and they've looked great in the first quarter of these games for over a month now, it just seems like no one can stop them. Yeah, and then you add in a pick six of 50 yards and it's like, oh, now you just put that on the board as well. They do feel unstoppable at times, especially, you know, against opponents that struggle to give them resistance. Like, this is not the Seahawks game. But it is, I mean, it's another example of how good this offense can be. Like, it honestly feels vindicating. It feels like justice has been served to Devante Adams for the time that he's spent in Vegas with the Raiders, because now he is in the perfect, he's in football heaven with Matthew Stafford. They're just making beautiful

music, art every weekend. And we all get to sit back and watch it. And sometimes it's in blowout fashion like this. Yeah, and maybe the best catch he made all night was actually called back by a penalty, a leaping grab he made in the second half. He did have one drop. I swear he's had more drops with the Rams than any other time in his career,

but he keeps getting it done. And the MVP conversation, put it on the board, Patrick Claibon, wherever you are. Tonight is only going to help with Stafford getting those three touchdowns in the first half. And that drive, that touchdown that we just heard, shook. It just shows you how they can do anything they want to do the Rams

because the Bucks are trailing 21 nothing. You mentioned the pick six that's on a play where KDOT and essentially drops the ball as he's going to his knees and Kobe Durant steals it from him. Look like he might have been down, but by the letter of the law, I guess he got to do a football move and Durant returns it the other way. And so it looks like a blowout early, but the Bucks finally, they get a touchdown on the drive where Mayfield actually hurt his left shoulder, but they get it to 217. And then literally just four plays later, it's like a three-yard run, and then it's

Puka up the seam for like 24 yards. It's Mumfield for 14, and then a dime to Devante Adams. So they can be explosive, or they can turn the running game, and their success rate was through the roof. And I think that gets lost a little bit, that the run for me, for the Rams, sets up the pass. Obviously, the pass is the most important thing. But they are. in favorable situation so often because of the run. Yeah, absolutely. And it all goes back to Kyron Williams and the role that he plays in this offense, but it's not just that.

It's the offensive line and how they've been very cohesive this year, whether it's protecting Matthew Stafford or opening running lanes, really allowing Sean McVeady get creative with how they want to run the ball. And then beyond Kyron Williams, it's in Blake Corum. And we've enjoyed a little bit of the difference in style where quorum's more of a north-south, less vision type of runner. Kyron, obviously more dynamic, able to, you know, find lanes and run through them. And I think it just fills out this offense.

Like you bring in Devante Adams and you put him next to Pooka Nakua. You have a very good one-two receiver tandem. Kairn Williams and Blake Quorum, solid one-two running tandem. And when it all marries together under Sean McVe's vision, this is what it looks like. Right. And the difference this year, more than any year, I feel like it's a difference-making defense. So the Rams get six quarterback hits, four sacks, seven tackles for loss, and 10 passes defense against Baker-Mayfield and Teddy Bridgewater, who, you know, was not James Winston coming off the bench in the second

half. But Baker Mayfield, in the first half, goes nine for 19 for 41 yards. He has the two interceptions. One, obviously not his fault, but what shouldn't get lost is, you know, on plays, you know, other than that interception, they were still averaging about two and a half yards per pass. And against the pressure, I believe he was 0 for 4. when they blitzed him, he was like one for five and took a sack. The pass rush was just awesome, whether it was verse or Kobe Turner. And then Baker hurts it, his shoulder. And he didn't really show it at first on a run.

And he follows it up with a couple nice passes. But you see him wincing after they get a touchdown. And you remember, I believe, I guess I'll put you on the spot. You remember how Baker's career ended in Cleveland, right? Yeah. Yeah, it was the 2021 season. It was after he led them to the playoffs and their first playoff win since they'd returned in 99. And he was playing through multiple injuries that year.

And the first one was the left shoulder, which ended up being a torn labrum that didn't require surgery. But as somebody who's torn both of his labrums and had surgery on one of them, that surgery is not super successful anyway. And it's not an injury that you can just like rehab away. And it gets annoying and it gets painful and bothersome even when you're not actively using it as you're throwing shoulder. Now, we don't know what happened to him this time, but he's got a history of having injuries with that shoulder. And that's what contributed to his downfall with the Browns. It was that. It was a knee. He struggled that year while playing through those injuries.

And it bums me out for him because this team is so banged up already. They're missing multiple receivers. Their offensive line has been a shuffling act all year. They haven't had Bucky Irving for a considerable stretch of time now. And then your quarterback, the guy who has been basically carrying you in most weeks and propelling your offense forward through scenarios in which most quarterbacks wouldn't get you to the other side, now he's banged up. And you saw what happened tonight.

you take him out of the equation when he's already banged up and they're just a non-competitive offense. Yeah, and look, they were without Jamel Dean, their best cornerback tonight, Bucky Irving, who you mentioned, Hassan Reddick was out and, you know, the Rams start a new right tackle, Warren McClendon. They put Rob Havenstein on injured reserve.

You didn't notice any difference. That's one area where like Hassan Reddick could possibly help. You're missing your two starting guards from week one. I kind of forgot during the week when I said they're only missing one guard. I forget Cody Mock's already out for the season. And so, yeah, just a lot of issues, and they're falling to six and five. And we're right back to where we tend to be, which is the NFC South winner is probably going to be the four seed. And yes, the buck's schedule gets much easier the rest of the way, but they're at a point,

especially if Baker's not 100% where no win is going to be assured. Meanwhile, the Rams are the one seed. And in a week where they put Havenstein, Quentin Lake, and Tyler Higby on injured reserve, look, they look so deep. Their tight ends were so important. in this game. You know, you get Colby Parkinson for a touchdown. Davis Allen gets loose for three catches. And this is just a really complete team. And to me, for the Rams, it's all going to be about weeks 15 and 16 in a five-day period. They will play the Lions and then they'll play

the Seahawks on a Thursday night. And that's going to, to me, really decide whether they are the one seed or who knows, Seattle might be able to run this table too. And it could all come down to that week 16 game, that's in the future. This team is maybe the best Sean McVey team we have seen yet. To the point where him and Stafford are getting into it and McFay's getting mad at like 31 to 7. Did you see that where like Stafford missed a couple of throws and they're like yelling at each other? At which point that Matthew Stafford probably shouldn't even be in the game.

Like just take them out. Because the biggest key for me is once they get to that week 15, 16 point, how healthy can you be when you get there? That's what's most important. All right. So they're nine and two. Before we leave for the day, we did have some breaking news as we were watching this game. Chip Kelly is out as the Las Vegas Raiders offensive coordinator.

So Patrick Claibon has been just killing Chip Kelly week after week all season long. I feel like he was first. Maybe Pete Carroll was first, but Patrick Claibon was second. And it felt weird that he is not on the show for this. So we're going to do an NFL Daily first, Chuck. we're going to call Claibon right now just on my phone. I mean, he's not going to pop up. I never call him on the phone, so he might not answer.

We'll see if this works. Maybe we'll even edit it out. I've got to put this thing on speaker, and we'll see how this goes. Is this the first time you've called somebody while you're not driving? Patrick, this is Greg. You are on NFL Daily right now.

Are you free to talk? You are on NFL Daily. Are you aware that the radio, have been watching the show and that they have fired Chip Kelly tonight. You know what, Greg, I appreciate not just Tom Brady's commitment

to being an NFL an NFL daily note listener, but Pete Carroll, clearly the it had nothing to do with the output, the ability to all, to be watchable,

to be fun. This was purely reaction to our continued conversation regarding Chip Kelly, which comes to a sad and empty ending tonight. You are such a pro.

I mean, you had that answer ready. I'm fumbling around trying to put it on speaker. You have this thing answered before I even get there. What did you think I was possibly calling you about right now? Well, when you started a conversation with I Am on NFL Daily right now, my brain went to any number of places where it's like recording, we finished recording the show. I'm watching Van Perino with my kids because, you know, I don't. other circumstance that it was concluded while we left, the podcast studio.

And so, yeah, this is, this is big news. Very important news. It's marquee news right now in November of 2025 that is doing something else for the remainder of the season, which congratulations to him because his previous thing was not going on. Yeah, honestly, it might not be the worst thing for him. He's the highest paid offensive coordinator in the league. That money is guaranteed. It goes on into future years.

I now feel bad for interrupting your family time. Thank you, Patrick, for chipping in, as always. No, thank you, Greg. And thanks to Chip Kelly for truly providing us with something unique in 2025. It was great. Thanks. See you, man. Unique in the form of 10 Zaks giving up to the Browns today.

The first time in my memory that I can see the Browns firing, getting someone fired on the same day, the Raiders just keep cycling through head coaches. so quickly. And you've got to think Pete Carroll, you know, is maybe on the way out, too. He had not fired a coordinator, Chuck, in 14 seasons during a season when he was with Seattle. And he's fired two. He's fired two. To Patrick Graham. Keep an eye over your shoulder. Patrick Graham is doing the best that he can. All right. Fun Sunday. I think we really

crystallize what's going on here in both conferences. It's really coming down in both conferences, if you look at it, to 10 teams for seven spots. And it's fascinating that the three teams out right now in the AFC are Pittsburgh, Houston, and Kansas City, all at six in five. While the Chargers, Jags, and Bills have the last three spots at seven and four. We talked about the AFC North before.

And then I think the same is basically the case in the NFC, 10 teams for seven spots. I'm including the Cowboys in that mix at 5, 5 and 1, and we kind of have the Panthers and the Bucks playing the roles of Raven Steelers in the NFC where just one team is getting that spot and it's probably going to be the four seed. It's all shaping up, Shooki.

It's all going to change. It's going to change, I'm telling you. We're going to get a lot of movement in these next six weeks. Okay. Looking forward to it. Let's get out of here because we got another show to do soon enough. Monday Night Football, as we do each and every week.

My parents are arriving on a plane during Monday Night Football. I was like, can we go live after Panthers 49ers when the parents are arrived? Some things are more important than family. Panthers 49ers live on YouTube, me and Shook, see ya then. Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down. college prospects and NFL rookies

to evaluating team building philosophies coaching trends and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday.

Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies.

Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, it's Cam Jordan. I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast, The Off the Edge with Cam Jordan podcast. Tap in every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars for the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment. About anything from teams and players making waves to pop culture.

And I'll take you inside my journey through my 15th season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season, the season of more on the Off the Edge with Cam Joorn podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Brought to you by Liberty Mutual Insurance. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.