NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - 2025 Week 12 TNF and Early Games Preview

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Jourdan Rodrigue and Patrick Claybon to preview the Week 11 Thursday Night Football matchup between the Bills and Texans and the early window of Week 11 action. The show starts with a look at the Bills at the Texans followed by Colts at Chiefs (08:15), Vikings at Packers (15:26), Steelers at Bears (21:23), Giants at Lions (29:40), Jets at Ravens (36:25), Patriots at Bengals (42:27) and Seahawks at Titans (51:23). Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're all thrilled to have a little more Davis Mills in our life. I'm Greg Rosenthal, and I'm here. on the week 12 preview show with Patrick Claibon and Jordan Rodrigue. And it's a little different because we haven't previewed TNF yet. And so that's where we get to see Mr. Mills. I'm glad I get to be here to talk about TNF. Yes.

I just realized that. We didn't want to mess with. We always miss you on QB Island Day. It's going to be a revenge game for some of the quarterbacks that didn't make it. Spoiler alert, Jared Gough kicked off for the very first time, actually. thinking about it he was on from day one till now yeah it's like jalen carter himself yeah leasing his property there to jordan love just like just if you just gave us like a little more in the in the seven different reality shows that you've been in in your life maybe maybe what a state that's a rough one for

jared i don't know why i'm taking shots i don't know either are you feeling are you well i'm so well feeling good Greg's doing great and you know who else is doing great people who get a chance to watch thursday night football as i get a chance to talk about thursday night football as i get a chance to talk about Thursday Night Football on this program for the first time this season, the Buffalo Bills, are six point favorites on the road at Houston, taking on Davis Mills, Greg Rosenthal. Yes. And the Houston Texans, legacy. And, you know, they're great defense.

And great defense is still something that's important. It's like vegetables, which Al Michaels does not eat. He and Kirkhurp Street are on the call. How do you see Davis Mills pulling this off again, Greg? That is such a strange thing how Al Michaels. doesn't eat vegetables and he's still going so strong. I have a friend who's actually was like a pretty

frequent caddy of Al Michaels up at Riviera. I'm not allowed to tell the story a little tease. Little tease there. Arizona State Sun Devil. That's right. Davis Mills where did he go to college? I don't know, but he's been in

the NFL the whole time with Nico Collins. And maybe that is partly why their connection is so great. Last week, week. It wasn't even him spamming Nico Collins. It was very efficient every throw he had to Nico Collins. And it's been great to see him going down the field, Davis Mills. Like, I'm not trying to make him into more than he's not, but he's what you want out of a backup quarterback. It was just someone that just goes for it. And he has had four, five, six, seven, like really impressive

throws each week along with the ones where he looks like a backup. In those two games, they've been a normal offense. It's all we've asked for from the Texans this season. Fourteenth in neat paper play throwing the ball 21st running the ball and this would be a game Jordan you would anticipate they need to run the ball since the bills are maybe the number one run funnel

in the entire NFL. That's a fantasy football term yes you know they're still one of the best past defenses in the league and 30th right now in the run defense according to DVOA. Yes to your point on Davis Mills yes he does

move the ball once per half, seems like. And that's important because he does it in the time that it matters. They moved the ball in their opening script last week and also at the end when they needed to set up a game winning field goal. This is part of why his throws to Nico Collins

looks so efficient is because they're happening in the most important moments of the game, either when they need to get ahead and stay ahead. They didn't last week because they missed the, they turned it over on down the goal line. But stay in their A plus plan to set up Davis Mills for more success. and this run game the way that it needs to go.

And at the end, when they need to make up for all the other stuff, they didn't do in the middle of the game. This Texan's defense, though, has been, to me, the story of this team and it's had to be. And against Josh Allen and where are Josh Allen's receivers? It's Gabe Davis and a resurgence, right? Khalil Shakir even has mispracticed with a personal issue to start the week. Curtis Samuel, not there.

Keon Coleman has been on and off the field with disciplinary. issues um i'm this is a you can't be missing this many guys going against a texan's defense that is this aggressive and assertive on playing on the ball and just to close that circle there uh we do have the injury report and i believe it's about a mile long yeah uh yeah that Shakir at this point like we don't know they haven't um given a status but he didn't practice for three straight days for personal reasons just usually a sign you're not going to play yeah and you're tracking the Coleman situation over the course of the past couple of weeks. I really think if they get everything figured out,

if it's purely disciplinary, then this is a week where they need him on a short week where everybody else just played a football game and you have an opportunity to have that chance to come in a little bit fresh against the defense where it's tough for good receiving groups to get separation against this Houston Texan secondary. And for all the celebration for the Tarell Shaver's experience last week, it truly was like to go back and look at the end zone angle of his touchdown reception

11 guys watching Josh Allen for way too long and actually forgetting about him where they need they need separation they're going to need guys to make it can't and I say this every single week and I'm wrong every single week it can't all be Josh clearly it can all be Josh he can do it he's going to run for 75 yards of the second half by himself to win this game but where earlier in the season the Houston Texans were given a C.J. Stroud average time to throw around 2.7 second. It got rough. It got better towards the end when Stroud got hurt

because he actually got hurt scrambling. But they've been better for Davis Mills. If they can keep up that level of meh that they've been on the offensive line, then this team just based on the defense can scare people, including Buffalo. Weirdly, the status of Ed Ingram is like one of the biggest things in this game

and it does sound like he's trending towards a return. He's been their best offensive linemen all year or certainly their best interior guy. And when he plays at guard, then they could put Titus Howard over at right tackle and the people, like the ESPN reporter that covers the team thinks he has a case to make the Pro Bowl this year, Titus Howard. I didn't, I don't know if I'd go that far, but suddenly you got guys in their natural positions if he can be back. I was wrong about Shakir. He is not listed anymore. I mean, he missed the practice, but they're not giving

him a game designation, which indicates that they think he's going to play. Curtis Samuel is out, Dalton Kincaid, is out. And yeah, it's crazy to think that Gabe Davis, who was cut earlier this year and has been, you know, coming off of an injury, he's going to be this big a part of the team. But he kind of matters. Like, when they needed a fourth down to like help win that game, it was Gabe Davis. When Josh was looking for a guy on a scramble, like it was Gabe Davis. I do wonder though, this matchup, it's a great Thursday night game to me because Bill's offense versus Texan defense is as good as a matchup as you could possibly have. And last year, if you, if you forgot. And I sort of did. Josh Allen freaked out against the Texas.

You want nine for 30 in that game. I'm so glad you brought that up, not because I hope that it happens, but because this Houston defense is, first of all, they're going to have to score to win this game. This defense has been close on a couple of plays. They've been difference makers in every single game where the Texans have even been in games this season. And they simply put, I know Greg,

how much you love Davis Mills, but they are going to have to score this defense. And they will be looking to score because they already understand the way to play Josh Allen and to try to get him. to press too hard and to go into hero ball mode and then to try to capitalize on that. I don't think that they're going to respect these receivers at all. I think

they're going to play them tight and I think they're going to try to jump all of these passes if they throw the ball and I think they're going to try to force turnovers when they run the ball. Just be normal Josh Allen. The end of that game they had a couple of normal drives which was nice to see. One last note is Jalen Petrie is expected to return for this game

possibly the best slot player in the league. The Dale Hunter, Will Anderson. One of the biggest parts of Josh's game is rolling to his right and waiting for seven years before fire and a missile. You can't do that against the Houston Texans. Either one of those guys is on his way quickly. We're on our way. Kansas City coming off of a loss, off of the by playing host to the Indianapolis Colts.

The Chiefs favored by three and a half because Vegas can't let go. Over under is 50 and a half. It is CBS Uno, Jim Nance, and Tony Romo on the call. can we envision a circumstance where the Kansas City Chiefs, Jordan, are below 500 in mid-November? This game has

kind of not so sneaky, huge... Answer the question, Jordan. Can you imagine it? Yes, I can. I nodded. You're right. This is an audio medium. Should have spoken aloud, yes. Yeah, I can, actually, because this team is off. This offense is off. This defense lacked its

sort of hidden fastball, and that it, Steve Magnollo usually pulls out at the exact opportune moments. And while I don't see them struggling as much, you know, because it's going to be angry Patrick Mahomes. It's going to be Andy Reid. It's going to be everybody trying to write the ship here, especially in a game with such significant potential playoff implications. This is a huge game in Indianapolis coming off the by.

You know, this game could really help decide what happens to Kansas City later in the year. Right. they are running out of room, first of all, to make the playoffs, especially to hit their over under win total. I was thinking about the preseason and you think about expectations. The Colts were the first team in the NFL this year to hit their over. They did it before they're by, which is, that's a tough thing to do. They hit their over when they beat. The Chiefs would clinch their under if they did not win this game for the first time in a long time.

And part of it is just like the same problems as that they've had for years. which is Patrick Mahomes is not connecting on deep passes. And you can blame a lot of other things. But like last week, he had two potential ones early in that game. And he just missed him to Thornton and Worthy. He did hit Thornton later in the game. But he is 17 for 48 on plus 20 passes.

He's ranked 20th, according to PFF, in their deep passing grades. And otherwise, they have him top five on the season, like top five overall. So that's really the only hole that they have in his game. but that combined with Andy Reid's, like, refusal to run the ball in key, key spots, which is basically all of Andy Reid's career, but I think he's especially anxious to do it this year right now. And so so many third and one, fourth down situations, he's throwing the ball and it's not been that effective.

They're turning into pass downs and they're turning into pressure down specifically because they have no balance or compliment with the run game for Patrick Mahomes. And I have to tell you, we did quarterback island this week. and we were eyebrows deep in quarterback stats all week. And the ones with Patrick Mahomes when he's either face, when he is pressured versus when he's not pressured, are startling. Because when he is getting pressure, he has just two touchdowns, one interception,

a pass a rating of 64.3, a completion percentage of 39.4%. And when he's not facing pressure, that's where his other 15 touchdowns or interceptions, But 15 touchdowns, over 100 pass a rating, and 71.8 completion percentage is happening. The discrepancy between when he is pressured versus when he is not pressured. And part of it, too, is having to go out of structure and try to make wild things happen, which is not working as well for him as it normally has.

But when you turn your middle to late downs into known passing downs and a team, an opposing pass rush can set up to get pressure against you to create that. massive of a swing, this is a huge problem. And the Colts are bringing the heat a little bit, too. And it's a funny situation because we were talking with our researcher on Fantasy Kindle about the Chiefs run game. Statistically, according to like success rate and everything, it's a good run game. Like when Andy's calling the runs, the runs are having success.

We just need them to call the runs. No explosive in it. So they'll rank lower in those stats. But that's fair. This is a game, though, where like I'm curious. what Lou does because it's going to be the first game we hope where he has Charverius Ward and Stas Gardner together they will not have DeForest Buckner something that we've mentioned on the show but to me completely changes their team and their defensive

line like their ceiling is significantly lower without their best defensive linemen up front but I will be curious to see uh how that tandem looks and how creative Lou gets and it's good it's tough I'm wondering how creative Lou is going to have to be because the Spagnolo defense has not been like the spagnolo defense that we've seen in the past especially in terms of getting unblocked pressures uh they have the lowest marks of all time of a spag's chief's defense in terms of generating the unblock pressures off the blitz and we kind of it's been this i know they their colts are just coming off the by but the the jones dichotomy of like is this real is this something that we're just imagining here this this is a chance to say declaratively um that

This is not going away. Daniel Jones and the Indianapolis Colts are going to be a huge part because while the, you know, the unblocked pressures and everything, they're still a good run defense. And it's tough to imagine Jonathan Taylor having another three touchdown game. If that's the case, then the chiefs are, we can forget about the chiefs for the rest of the season. But if they stop the run,

is dime's going to be this, you know, completing 70% of his play action passes, you know, doing all the things that he's done, having more deep success than Patrick, Holmes? Yeah. 2025? Like, does that continue?

Because if that's the case, you know. That's how Boe did it. Bo Nix did it last week was he had time to throw on some of those big third and longs. And before we move on from this game, whenever the Chiefs and the Colts play, it reminds me of one game. And that is a playoff game, which I think has been lost at times somewhat. The Dick Vermeal Chiefs with Trent Green going up and down the field against Peyton Manning and Edron James and that Colts team.

And it was a game. my friend, Patrick, where there was not a single punt, there was not a single stop other than one priest's fumble on in a day where he had over 200 yards and three touchdowns. Peyton Manning put up 38 points on only seven drives. It was just pure offense. The drives like took too long apparently so that they couldn't, but basically each team scored every single time

except for one priest's home's fumble. and that was the difference of just like Hall of Famers back and back and forth in the divisional rounds so shout out Trent Green yes he was more entertaining as a player than as a broadcaster

wow let's take it back positive because we're talking about priest holmes fumbling one of the better players that's that's not I said the two he got over 200 yards

and three touchdowns in that game so you can't really fall him but it's just one fumble yeah that's a cool name too also love that yeah good old priest home nine or is it j j mccarthy on the road taking on the green bay packers bikings packers where green bay is favored by six and a half points it is joe davis and greg on the call

gregg we saw a rough game from j j mccarthy he's a young quarterback can you envision a circumstance comes back they beat the division rival and we feel so much better about him seven days from now yes because he's in such a great situation, but that's also why I think the panic has been so over the top, especially in Minnesota, where I feel like some of the fan base is just like, what, this isn't going to happen. And it's a little early for that, for sure. Okay, they've been through some stuff, though, in history, Greg. I get it. It's a little early for that, but it's also not like a normal rookie quarterback situation. First of all, he's a second year player. Second, like, there's so many

good things around him. There are open receivers. There has been a good running game for him, actually, since he's come in and the defense is playing well. So it's possible because we've seen the high ceiling plays. And yet, Man, he's a brutal schedule. And I think they have the Seahawks next. So it's just like, it's only going to get harder. And it'll be fascinating to see, like, to me, if the Packers defense can be that defense that we thought they were going to be. They haven't quite been like the shutdown defense that we thought, and this would be an opportunity to be that defense. Well, I just think, yes.

And I also think about the Micah Parsons variable significant looming against a player like J.J. McCarthy, who's trying to get some positive reps under him. They're trying to build some good habits and some, you know, develop some good traits. They're trying to give him some confidence, too. And Kevin O'Connell has been talking about where J.J. McCarthy needs. needs to develop the entire year, including in the summer and the fall, early fall. And I think that we forgot just kind of how specific that they've been, talking about adding strength, a little bit more torque, feeling where a little touch on the ball, feeling where

plays can be made, seeing the field really well. I think these are all things that obviously they want to continue to try to get him to, to develop in. And they've been very clear about this the entire time. It's weird, though, in week 11 to be talking about. how he needs to improve his fundamentals, like still at the podium. Yeah, that is weird. That's what I was just about to say is like the fact that they said it all year and then it was

quiet for a minute and now it's suddenly resurfaced is like, okay, so how's that going? Right. So what's that process? What does that process look like and how's that going? And you just know that Jeff Hathley and this Packers defense is going to want to get the worst version, the fritz out version of J.J. McCarthy to emerge in this game. And I think they've got the players to do it. They do.

And they've been solid against the run. I do, I know we need to joke about revenge games, but Aaron Jones clearly has a big impact on this team and the offense and the way that KOC can use him, where not to necessarily hide J.J. McCarthy, but to just have... Maybe a little. Just maybe more of the passing game becomes horizontal instead of vertical. I think Aaron Jones could be a big part of that against the Packers' defense that,

you know, as you mentioned, Jeff Halfley, having these guys in such good coverage positions so many times. Considering the way that the passing game specifically is going right now, maybe dial it back a little bit against Greenback. Yeah. And I was hoping maybe Jaden Reed could come back this week. They opened up his practice window, but he's not practicing on Wednesday.

So there's no real reason to think he'll be back. And, you know, it's been interesting to see Matthew Golden's coming off the shoulder injury, but fourth and snaps among the receivers. I think they need to build their offense around like throwing the ball and Christian Watson I think like Watson

Dobbs is it This is going to be the first week of Dobbs Watson Yeah and Golden and you know If Reed is back then it's like the fully operational battle station that Matt Lafleur

has waited for to finally Good luck against the Vikings team Josh Jacobs is hurt They're trying to get him ready to play by the end of this week but he he did have I think it was a contusion that he banged his knee on the turf

last week And then also I do think this is a game where they really want to try to throw the ball against a pretty tough Minnesota Vikings secondary. But Jordan Love is also playing through a shoulder injury like he did last week and with positive results, obviously, but it is still something to keep an eye on.

Yeah, the Packers schedule to be. Quarterback Island member, Jordan Love. You know, I wouldn't have expected you, Patrick, to have already listened to the episode, but it was big news. Jordan Love did make it. Wow. On to quarterback Island.

It came down to him and Gough somewhat towards the end. Who was the very last guy on? Now I'm forgetting. Daniel Jones. Daniel Jones. Yeah, we had to keep them on ultimately. And Love's got to make us look good here. And it's going to be tough.

Because if we were just looking at the schedule, like, they have five division games left. And I know the Vikings, like, this is actually the easiest game, I believe, left on their schedule. They might have one Cleveland game, which is crazy. to think that the Vikings would be the easiest, but they have the Vikings twice. They have an at Denver. They have a Ravens. Like, there are not easy games left.

So you kind of can't stumble at home against a division opponent that's hurting a little bit. Let's take a quick break. We're going to come back and we're going to talk about the leader of the NFC North. Still getting used to that,

the Chicago Bears. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech at Lenovo.com. Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming, and performance that won't quit. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high-quality streaming with Intel Wi-Fi 6E and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search.

Power up at Lenovo.com. Hey, what's up everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. If you love breaking down football from every angle, you're in the right place. Every week on Move the 6th, Bucke Brooks and I dive deep into the game from the X's and O's to the front office moves shaping the league. We kick things off with Brian Baudinger, breaking out what really went down on Sunday. It is as good at timing rhythm offense as there is in the league right now.

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I just want to remind everyone how good Rishi Rice was last. season and his three healthy games. He was the wide receiver two in fantasy. I think Rishi Rice just goes off this week. The Chiefs come on a flip pass to Rice. Near side, touchdown! Remandre Stevens is my sleeper this week. This is a match-out where I think I can slide in Stevenson into my flex position

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you get your podcasts. What's up? It's Cam Jordan. I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast, The Off the Edge with Cam Jordan podcast. It's happening every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars from the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment. About anything from teams and players making waves

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Try them for free at wasabi.com. Back on NFL Daily. It's all happening. I feel like this is the last normal week of the year. My parents are coming in town like on Monday. Then suddenly Thanksgiving's here. Our schedule's jam next week, but you know, it's front-loaded. So we'll have a little different cadence.

We'll talk about it then in terms of when we're releasing our shows. And then by the time they're gone, we're just a couple weeks till Rosenthal Christmas, the day that we celebrate Christmas before my family leaves me for Japan, an actual Christmas. And then we all rally around Greg as emotional support. Just hang on to Greg. You know what? You know what cheers me up? What's that? Watching Mason Rudolph play football.

No, that's not true. That's not true. Although it reminds me, I do remember one of the Christmas seasons watching a Mason Rudolph game while they were gone because he was on that Saturday slate on the way to the playoffs for the Steelers that year. But Aaron Rogers' wrist has looked at that opportunity. No, Greg. You will not get Mason Rudolph here in mid-November.

You will get me as Aaron Rogers is back in a place where he once claimed to be the owner. I guess the Chicago Bears, two and a half point favorite Chicago Bears against Aaron Rogers and the Steelers. The over under is 45 and a. half. It's Ion Eagle and J.J. Watt on the call. As Jordan, we've seen the bears continue to win. It's been fun. Wait, that's just a weird sentence. Both in conjunction like that. Yeah. I love it. I mean, I'm sorry. It just threw me. Sometimes we get a little whimsical. It's the bears and the subjects and the verb don't always agree. Do they do it again?

Pittsburgh Steelers and Aaron Rogers and get revenge for the entire city of Chicago? Yes. And I think so. And Patrick, there's nothing wrong with what you said, by the way. It's just that I'm not used to hearing the combination of fun and bears and leading the NFC North. And by the way, what if I told you that the Chicago Bears currently lead the NFL and explosive play rate, according to next gen stats, and their second year quarterback, Caleb Williams, who was taking sacks at almost the worst rate in the NFL among quarterbacks last season, has flipped that completely on its head. So against a Pittsburgh pass rush and a secondary that, that has been playing better in recent weeks

when they're not getting spat on by people. This is actually, I think this shapes up really well for Chicago to play explosive football against the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yeah, I don't know what to think still about this Bears team. I want to see more. Like hypothermia, just ease in, lean in and go to. There is something, and they've been winning these games late, sometimes not against great teams.

I was shocked when I saw this week. They're 25th right now in overall DVOA, which is my favorite just overall efficiency metric. I'm like, wow, 25th. That is surprising. Part of it is they face the second easiest schedule in the NFL to this point. They will face the sixth hardest moving forward.

This is actually one of their easier games on paper moving forward. And I agree, like my instinct would say that they have more going on. We don't know for sure, Patrick, that Aaron Rogers is going to play. but he did say after not practicing Wednesday that, you know, he hopes to resume on Thursday and that, you know, safety, ability to protect himself will be, you know, the main concern, but it's sounding a little more optimistic. I ask you this. Who do you think gives the dealers a better chance to win, Mason Rudolph or Aaron Rod?

I think, honestly, I don't think if Mike Tomlin believed at this point that, you know, Mason Rudolph gave them the best chance. I'm not asking who Mike Tomlin believes. I'm asking who Patrick Raybott believes. I will say Mike Tomlin is ahead of me. Greg's really on it today. In terms of football knowledge, you're asking me to choose between Aaron Rogers and Mason Rudolph. So you know, I'm not being unbiased here because a couple sides of a similar coin on that one.

So, yeah, I'm going to go with Aaron Rogers. Although different, different in interesting ways. I wonder what that quarterback. Pretty similar, I think. I think so, but I see. I think pretty similar, Greg. I see like Mason Rudolph getting a lot of, a lot of, he gets a lot of love. from the God Squad, I would say,

that supports certain quarterbacks, whereas, you know, Aaron Rogers is kind of a heathen. So they are different in interesting ways. Let's move off that and let's listen to Mike Tomlin being asked about Jalen Ramsey and everything that happened with Jamar Chase last week. You know,

I have no message if someone spits in your face. Do what comes natural. Yes. See? he's the honest guy oh i love that you know who also is loves that and is going to you know already was playing hard is going to fight and die for mike tomlin is jalen ramsie because jalen ramsie always had this thing that he would say uh to rehem morris close friend of mike tomlin they've probably on the phone a lot trying to figure out you know how to get the most out of out of this guy's

in his veteran years um he always would say i'm with you and you're right and mike tomlin is demonstrating that there, because Jalen Ramsey is correct in this situation. It's just crazy. We saw a first spitter early in the season. Now we've seen a second spitter. You know, everyone just keep it contained. Yeah, the second spitter was Jemar Chase in this instance where it's almost a sign of positivity for Ramsey that he's in that spot where reminding me of the AJ Green,

Jalen Ramsey matchups or the, you know, all these other. matchup where things are getting itchy, the offense isn't having the success that they would like to have against the Jalen Ramsey secondary. And yeah, guys are getting frustrated. So, like, that's a positive sign. My concern would be against this Bears' offense where Jordan already pointed out the explosives, the Steelers have struggled. Yeah. Some tight ends. And I know one of those was Tucker Kraft having like the Tucker Kraft game, which kind of makes the stats a little sideways here as of late. But I think considering he was hurt at the start of the season, it's been a huge boost for this offense, the way that Colston

level has been playing. Yep. Part of this game. He's looked good. And, you know, on the other side, I mean, part of the reason I'm not sure about the Bears is their defense. That's the main reason. Yeah.

And they did get Kyler Gordon at practice back this week. And they got Jalen Johnson back at practice last week. We don't know if either one of them will be activated, but that could really help out a team that is blitzing like crazy and still getting no pressure. And that's why I asked the Mason Rudolph question because I just don't know. Like, I do think he could. unlock D.K. Mecalf maybe a little more. I put it this way.

That's one of the saddest sentences I would. I would say, you know, you put Mason Rudolph in, and we know who he is. He's a backup for a reason. Aaron Rogers is one of the two or three worst starting quarterbacks to me in the NFL right now. So it wouldn't like shock me if, if he played that he would help out. And I think Aaron Rogers would be aware of that too. well they're and they're not getting they're not just not getting pressure despite blitzing like crazy they're also not getting any quick pressure so even sending a brushing attack that is designed to try to get quick pressure on the quarterback they are taking forever when they actually do get pressure to hassle a quarterback so i would think that if you're going to play mason rudolph who

has i mean pretty much everybody has a longer wind up than erin rogers does at this point but if you're going to put a quarterback in who is definitely a backup and will have a longer time to throw naturally than Aaron Rogers, then yeah. I mean, why not? It's kind of a safer situation. Patrick is laughing up by Mason Rudolph thing. For what it's worth we, I do have a one-to-one comparison last week. It's an emotional roller coaster segment. Where

they basically, they looked similar. I mean, Rogers looked worse, but they looked similar. Yeah. The vaunted Bengals defense. I'm saying neither one of them looked that good, to be honest. If the bears don't win this game, though, it is crazy how the NFL, like, things can change fast. We're talking about how they're in first place. Like, this is a big game for them.

this at home because if not you're at Philly at Green Bay the next two weeks that's a possible three game losing streak right looking you in the face but I think this is a very winnable game. It's going to a team that not win this past week in fact look rough but they are back at home where Jerry Gough

famously an indoor cat the Detroit Lions 10 and a half point favorites against Mike Kafka's New York Giants Mike Kafka saying when on the day that we're having this conversation that Jackson Dart is progressing through the protocol he had a non-contact practice on Wednesday Greg I know we enjoyed the Jamest experience of it all may be limited to one week get Jackson Dart back against the lines I think that's good I think that's good for Giants fans it's good for NFL fans if we get Jamis one more time but that was like a perfect James game had a little bit of everything that's fine that the lines are the more interesting part of this game and I would expect them to win, 10 and a half points is a lot, by the way. I'm not sure if I totally

trust them there. Their interior offensive line, which we came into the seasons, being like, oh, is this going to be the thing that gets in the way. It really is starting to hit home that, yeah, this thing is the thing that might really get in the way because, you know, Tate Ratledge is their starter. He's the guy they drafted. He was the one getting really thrown around last week, Glasgow, who's the center, has not been great in figuring out the protections. Like, this is a game when they have the ball on offense where the, at least passing the ball, the Giants have the right people to give them problems. I thought Dexter Lawrence is coming off maybe his best game of the season.

Yeah, I'm glad you said that because he looked very vintage Dexter Lawrence and against this lion's interior offensive line, particularly on past sets, this could be a huge mismatch. And we know that Jared Goff would struggle when facing specifically that type of pressure up the middle or even up the inside edges of his pocket. So for me, this lion's team has to get back to doing what we know they can do. It's just running the ball. The Giants cannot defend the run for to save their lives. They cannot defend the run.

If you get into the second level of this defense at all, you're gone. And I just think that that's where some of the speed that they have, some of the yards after catchability that they have, you don't have to make it glamorous. You don't have to make it sexy. Just short, quick, yak passes and run the ball. That's all you have to do. If you're Dan Campbell, you're going to love your little glasses on.

You're going to love holding that play sheet for something like this. a little bit. And again, like, his faces are going to be all beaten by the wind and red and it's angry because Jalen Carter is ruining their entire evening in Philadelphia. And they get a better matchup because I know Brian Burns has had his career high in sacks, but Penae Soule is letting pressure get to the quarterback on just 5% of his past sets this season. And Jared Gough only completed one pass when he was pressured last week. It was a woeful golf performance. That one pass was actually the touchdown to Jamison Williams. And like

there were so many, like the look from the backside on the one that was on fourth down to Jamo where he throws like a split finger fastball that hits Williams in the knee just, I'm I know that that was an anomaly. Jared will be back to complete and passes. It's just a question for Dexter Lawrence.

Like can you simulate a little bit of what the Eagles were able to do on the interior? Because I know they're great on the edge, but that's not where you want to attack the lions and golf. I'm still not that worried at least like big pick like going to win a super bowl is going to be tough i think playing indoors playing at home is going to be big for them so they really have a small margin for air to win the division they are not outdoors again by the way until week 18 at chicago so

that that's favorable for them they're at home here for three straight games i do think sam la porta's absence it just changes who they are a little bit jameson williams is playing fantastic but ever since amon ra made that prompt remember he dropped the ball against the Chiefs, and he was like, that's never going to happen again. I think about that every time that it happens again. It keeps happening. It's happening in big spots. Not that, I mean, he's low on their list of concerns, but just don't throw that out into

the world. And on the other side, too, you mentioned Brian Byrds. There's also been some, a little drama locally with Abdul Carter, who's had, I would say, probably a disappointing start to his NFL career. My athletic colleague Dan Duggan reported he slept through a walkthrough, and Abdul Carter says that he missed it because he was getting treatment. Sleep is recovery. So who knows, we're right.

And then he said that Mike Kafka also changed the time and that they were in communication about it, but he still did not play for this. There was still a disciplinary action taken. But Abdul Carter obviously took, you know, he was very open and took ownership for all of that, regardless of the circumstances. But it's just, you know, you really wish we had so much high expectations. coming into the season about the collective of this defensive line, including

not expecting Dexter Lawrence to kind of have some of the ebs and flows that he seems to have had coming off a great game. And the combination of Carter and Burns, it was so exciting and it just has not come to life. A lot of it, they're playing from behind. They're not really able to rush the passer,

I think, as much as they would like. But I would really just like to see what the future or the plan might be for this group. And Shane Bowen's coaching for his job. So you've got to put it together now. I'm concerned on the offensive side because so much of the DART success was in the RPO and the straight up quarterback run game. In fact, I'm pretty sure he got hurt on a play where the tackle and the guard pull and they're coming around. They're running the ball successfully, but he didn't protect the football or himself on that play.

And considering how much of the day ball of it all, it was where you have a quarterback and a coach, where the coach would like to maintain his job and his employment. And most of it was based on having office of success with the quarterback where now I don't know if Mike Kafka is going to be utilizing Jackson Dart. No, I bet ownership has told them. And I think they've kind of talked about it publicly too. Well, it's been like leaked out there like subtly, not so subtly about like, oh, we're showing him plays where he can be safer now.

Like the timing of it is sending a strong message to Mike Koppak. So like what does rookie Jackson Dart look like when he's when he's not running the ball? Because you take those plays away, it was a rough situation. especially against a good Lions defense. That's why I still think my Lion's Super Bowl pick has a shot. It's a balanced team, which, by the way, for fantasy people out there,

might not know what it's the highest percentage ever of Jemir Gibbs snaps less. Yeah. So that coach Dan Campbell pressing the Gibbs button a little more, sorry Montgomery. One goes up and, you know, the other goes down. Also a similar situation because he ran more routes

than Amon Ra. So not as much chance to drop those passes. to a team the lions destrominated earlier this season. The Baltimore Ravens are 13 and a half point favor against the Jets. And AG has made the quarterback switch. It is Therod Taylor starting Andrew Catalan,

Charles Davis, Jason McCordy are there on the call. Jordan, what would you like to say about the 2025 Jets? Well, Tarad Taylor time. Also, what could go wrong. What is it?

13 and a half point favorite, Patrick? How is that making you feel right now? I feel probably better than Justin Fields here in this. I said that on Monday, talk to both of those guys, talk to the team on Monday, so Tyraud would be our starter.

Why did you decide to make that move? Because I wanted to. Thank you, Aaron. I have enjoyed our weekly segment, Aaron, Glenn gets weird when asked about why he's so weird about it because he wants to be

the Ravens wow I don't know if I can do this no they don't quite qualify you know how I have many different rules when it comes to bread picks and ticks and whatnot and they're all breakable one of them is just like

is this a team that's worth being favored by this many points in an NFL game and it's hard to believe the Ravens are a consideration for that rule but the way they've played if you just took off

the uniforms, like, they don't seem worthy of a team that should be favored by that much. They just offensively aren't cohesive consistently. You would think that the Jets would be able to turn that around. But I thought it was notable that, like, Lamar held the ball on the first play last week. It was almost like, okay, we're going to start doing this again. It was an RPO. And then Schwessinger was just like right there, stopped it for nothing. And then later in that first drive, Lamar took off and skirm.

scrambled and it was an effective scramble. It got down to the three or four yard line. And it was partly because just Swettinger made an incredible play on it and stopped it. If you're watching us on YouTube, sometimes that the gods of YouTube just sink up and the play is playing while I say it. Swesinger made an incredible tackle to stop. And I'm just like, ah, it's just like not quite happening. And then he barely ran the rest of the game.

And I do think there are a little bit of a different offense without Lamar's running. And he's definitely having the worst season as a runner that he's ever. He's not healthy. I mean, it's pretty clear. Even if they kind of hem and hawed away or whatever, like he's missing. He missed another Wednesday practice, according to local reports there.

Obviously, we're recording during that time. So I don't know what the update on that is from John Hart. Did it last week too. So I guess that's becoming a weekly thing. Yeah. And he's not feeling fully healthy. And so that's where I think this becomes dangerous.

Because if teams, now this is the Jets. So. But overall, if teams start to key on the. fact that they're less have less dimension to their offense and a huge element of danger is taken away from it. It makes them easier to plan for. And I think for the Jets, they could, they could use a game like that. I thought their defense looked better. I mean, they went through some huge significant changes losing personnel, but they're getting Will McDonald back. He's leaving the team in pressure right now. And I thought they've looked, I thought that they have looked better. Now, the

offense, who knows? But I think the defense is, is starting to figure itself out sometimes by necessity. throughout a help, I think. Yeah, it'll calm down things a little bit and, you know, he trusts his eyes a little bit more than Fields is right now at this point in the season. And, you know, I'm confident in Ravens edge rusher, Kyle Hamilton, I'm being able to provide a little bit of opposition for the defense. But over on the offensive side, obviously, you know, you're concerned about Lamar and his health. But I think you could take a version of 2018 Lamar out of a lab and he would still

struggle to scramble with what's going on in front of them on the offensive line, where not only the multiple times was Miles Garrett lost last week in the protections, but it seems like every single week where there's a stunt and Rosengarden and Falayle are having all sorts of miscommunication about where they're going and how they're going to pick it up. There was actually one of those that led to the interception, which like so many Lamar interceptions, like a Rube Goldberg sequence of events that leads up,

you know, ball goes careening off a helmet from a guy crossing the guards face on a stunt that ultimately Swessinger picks off. And then there was the Keaton Mitchell one where Keaton Mitchell just serves it up on the volleyball play for a pick six, where at this point, you can't say if they figure it out up front, because

we're in week 12. Like, it's not going to get figured out. And that's my hardball is saying, like, it's not in Lamar's best interest to practice today. Like, that's, that's why Lamar is not practicing because there's a lot of them not to because these guys need to practice at this point. And some of them even aren't. Like Ronnie Stanley struggled and, like, granted he's going against Miles Gare. But I don't think it's been a great Ronnie Stanley year in general, to your point.

Things are worse on the other side, right? Yes. Here's some other players not practicing for the rate. Remember when they came out of the biweek and everyone was practicing? It was like, wow, that's crazy. Unfortunately, then you have to start playing football again. And then everyone gets hurt again. Kyle Hamilton, Rokwan Smith, Ronnie Stanley, starter, Andrew,

Warhees. Rashad Bateman and likely we're both out of practice, and I don't think Bateman's coming back anytime too soon. They just haven't gotten the secondary receivers going consistently. Similar to a lot of years in Baltimore, but I thought this year would be different. Let's take one more break on our show, where we're just talking early games.

What we do is we cut it up. Oh. And then we have the prime time game. Oh. And the afternoon games. That's a different show. Okay. It's different when you're on it.

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touchdown! Remandre Stevens is my sleeper this week. This is a matchout where I think I can slide in Stevenson into my flex position and he could deliver double digit points this week. Drake takes the snap. Hands it off. Romari running it right and running into the end zone. Touchdown.

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Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage. Store more and do more with your data. Try them for free at wasabi.com. We are back on NFL Daily. You know, Steve called you out for all of the hand gestures. I remember. I was there. It was on the show. I like to wave the note cards around. I'm feeling bad because I'm spying this next game,

which before the season, you know, if you heard there was an eight and a half point spread on a Bengals Patriots game, you would not think it's going for the visitors, the Patriots. But I'm feeling bad because I see that Trent Green is on the call and I'd be smirched.

Oh, no. You know, his integrity earlier. And then you bring it up again. Yeah. To kick him one more time. But underrated player is kind of what I wanted to get to. Oh, is those offenses were explosive. and is a great what if

because as great as the Kurt Warner story was, I always think of Trent Green just watching that and thinking that could have been me. He was the quarterback for you young listeners out there for that that greatest show on turf team got hurt in the preseason. Kurt Warner took over

and Trent Green still got it done. Yeah, and if you want a little insight into what, you know, that sequence of events and how it played out means to Kurt, listen to his Hall of Fame intro where Trent Green was was up there as a part of the folks inducting Kurt into the pro football. Hall of Fame.

Yes, Trent Green is on the call, along with Kevin Harlan. As we get to find out what happens when an unstoppable force travels through the empty vacuum of space, the Indian Patriots are eight and a half point favorites against the Cincinnati Bengals. 50.5 is the over under. The Bengals once again at the top of the biggest over under, highest over unders of the week, Greg. What do they do in this game against Drake May? Probably give up some big plays, miss a lot of tackles. I saw that score and thought like, oh, the Bengals defense actually played a little better last week.

You know, the dealer's got a couple touchdowns. Late one of them was on defense. I was like, okay, they competed. And you watched that game. It was like, no, they just couldn't get off the field. It was just giving up long 15 play drives against a bad offense. I don't feel any better than I did early in the season or before the buy or anything. thing. I'll be curious to kind of see if Kishon Booty's back, if Remandre Stevenson is back,

like how they're reintegrated into the offense. But right now, this is an offense, which has a lot of different parts working. And I think that's because of Drake May's ability in this offense to be empowered. Brian Hoyer, former Patriots backup, said he personally, like he had played in the, you know, Shanahan system at one point. He was with the 40s. He said he liked that McDaniel's system because he felt like it just gave him more options of what to do at the line of scrimmings that you could really take hold of. He's an analyst now for the for the Patriots and he says he really thinks Drake May is like year five of a process that you wouldn't that you would expect like in terms of what he's doing and you look at one of the touchdowns last week where you know he

changes the play before and it they immediately pop one of those Traveon Henderson runs that was a couple weeks ago and in this last one was was one of his passing touchdown. was on that too, and that he really is doing a good job, setting protections, especially knowing where the rushers are coming from and seems advanced beyond his physical tools to just being a good ahead of his years mentally. Yeah, you know what? I'm glad you brought all of that up, Greg, because it immediately flashed me back to when I get to watch them workshop some of this stuff against Minnesota's defense in joint

practices over the summer. And I mentioned at the time to you that it was really weird to me because it was almost like they were telling him not to run when pressure came at him, but to really feel it and understand it and see it for kind of what it was coming at him versus escaping at the first sign of trouble. And so when you do that, you can not only understand what real pressure looks like,

but also you can have a better feel for what simulated pressure looks like and what different types of blitzes look like and all of the different things that teams will, now I don't know that the Bengals are equipped to do this, but that they will throw at you over the course of the season if you're Drake May. And getting that type of coaching is really significant to me because it does fast track your development if you can handle it. And clearly Drake May is is really seeing it well. He's really seeing all the different types of protections he has to call. I think he's getting better support around him in terms of specifically

what is going to happen on a play with Trayvion Henderson, who struggled a little bit at at the beginning of the year. And if I'm looking at one of the many areas in which Cincinnati's defense is vulnerable, I would say this might be a really significant Trevion Henderson in the passing game game because of the way they missed tackles

and because of the way the two of them have really come along in terms of what are we seeing pre-snap? What are we feeling at snap? And how do we make things work post-snap? And that's not even to mention the production he's getting out of Stefan Diggs and other receivers on the team.

Yeah, the play I was thinking of too was actually the Henderson receiving touchdown where right before the play, he literally just tells Hunter Henry who to block on the play, who he thinks is coming on the Blitz. Hunter Henry does it, and then they hit the touchdown.

Ramandre did return to practice. Mike Brable didn't really want to answer whether there's going to be a more split workload. He said he wants to make sure Remandre Stevenson is back before they really address that situation. It's fine, right? You can keep Remandre healthy

and also give Trayvon a little more experience. probably not a lot to learn in this one. You know, run it down the field by people and going in the end zone. But, you know, getting a chance to be in the protection game, in the receiving game out of the backfield, where more experience for, you know, one of the more explosive players in the league on an offense that's very explosive. It's almost like he was, you know, held there just in the right moment when they needed him in that game against the bucks, hit those home runs and now here they are fully operational into a great part of the season where they're leading the division and Greg's

feeling great. It's crazy. The Bengals threw a little bit of a curveball today with their injury report. Joe Flacko's limited. Joe Burrow is listed as a full participant. I've been thinking this whole time based on the reporters, the insiders like Ian who was essentially hinting at it. The second Burrow was activated off, you know, IR in terms of not activated but his practice window open, that he was targeting Thanksgiving.

So it would make sense to me if he's playing on Thanksgiving, Joe Burrow, that is, that he would start maybe fully practicing this week, but just something to keep an eye on. Crazy. Could he come back even a week earlier? You want, you don't want,

I would think that you wouldn't want that, honestly, because Jamar Chase is not going to be there, right? But what I am interested in, so Yoshivas, you know, they can use him in a pinch. He is really productive when his number has been called. It just hasn't been called a lot because you have two of the best receivers in football as you're one and two on that

offense. I don't doubt that this offense, whichever Joe is that quarterback is probably going to have to figure out, you know, how to maximize Yoshivas or if my Gisiki comes back using him all over as a passing mismatch, sort of like a move tight end or maybe making him your number two, quote unquote, receiver at that point, you might be able to do it that way. I just think that even if Joe Burrow is full and even if it's early, I don't know why you would almost like waste a game with

without Jamar Chase on the field. I will push back just not on that, but on all the people that are kind of like, why bring back Joe Burrow this year? It's like he's, that's what he does for a living and if he's ready to play. No, I think he should come back.

I think I'm saying like next week because I know there's going to be that conversation of like why even let him play. Gisiki, by the way, full practice. Wednesday so. Yeah. The second part of the caveat very important. If he's healthy, if there are no lingering concerns where we're doing this, this thing, like, oh, we're watching, being careful, like only if he's completely healthy. But I'm with you on, you know, if you have Joe Burrow, you got a limited window, right? You have 15, 20 years to watch Joe Burrow play football,

hopefully. If he can play football, it's better. Yeah, he should. Which is why we should ball us a draft, so nobody's sitting there hoping. I will be curious to see Christian Gonzalez on T. Higgins in this game would have liked to see it on Chase Moore. It hasn't been the best Christian Gonzalez this year. Like an incredible tackler out of nowhere.

Like that's where he's stood out. But hasn't been great in coverage. I would say he's coming off of an injury and hasn't been playing with like the same confidence that he had in the past. It was a hamstring too, right? So yeah, that's going to be, that's going to linger in your mind,

not just your body for a while. How much do four interceptions linger? in your mind. Sam Darnold and the Seattle Seahawks folks are 13 and a half point favorites on the road at the Tennessee Titans Kevin Coogler and Moose Johnston on the call where the Titans are scrappy. Titans are scrappy Jordan. They did it last week. Can they do the unthinkable this week? No, I don't think that. But I also, I got to give a shout out to DeNard Wilson, honestly, because watching this Titans defense, they do not quit. They run to the ball. They play. hard. They're limited personnel-wise, obviously, but they certainly, he has them playing probably

best case scenario considering the circumstances around this entire team. And you feel horrible for them when you're, when you know, you're seeing guys shouting on the sideline, okay, defense did its job. Now offense go do its job. And then it's just not going to happen because of all of the clear limitations, not just personnel, but also coaching. Now, I don't think that they come even close to manufacturing the same results out of Sam Darnold that the Rams did. It is a very specific Chris Shula, Rams defensive line, and secondary because of some of the simulated pressures he sends. Like, it is a very specific Chris Shula thing with Sam Darnold, frankly.

I don't think another defense can very easily replicate it without similar types of personnel, which the Titans do not have. So I do think that this is a back-to-normal game for the Seattle Seahawks. their offense, certainly their defense. I'm excited to see Cam Ward try to make crazy things happen against this defense. I mean, I don't want him to be put in danger or anything like that. But like, you know, we haven't, I would like to see him like workshop through what this defense is and what it will present him because it will be one of the biggest challenges he

faces all season, including the circumstances around playing this game with your head coach long gone and probably one of the more static offenses in the league, by the way. like they're not fooling anybody. They don't motion. They don't shift. They run basically the same concepts over and over again. They're not asking him to do a lot pre-snap because they don't have a lot built-in pre-snap.

They're asking him to do all the magical things post-snap, which drives you a little crazy to watch because he's capable of so much more. But it's just this is a, the Seahawks team is a monster. It is an absolute monster on both sides of the ball. And Sam Darnold is the leader of it. Actually, you threw some shade at Sam Darnold earlier today. And I think Ernest Jones, or earlier this week, and I think Ernest Jones had like a really good response to you on that one.

I mean, Sam's been balling. Like, if we want to try to define Sam by this game or what, man, Sam's been had us in every fucking game. So for him to sit there and say, oh, that's my fault. No, it's not. He's our quarterback. We got his back and you got anything to say, quite frankly, fuck you. You know that, Greg?

They got to put that on the teaser. How have I been, I literally had him as I was the deciding vote making them the MVP? You literally? Literally, yesterday, on quarterback island, yesterday, you said, I want to just punish him for a little bit longer. Oh, yeah. Well, I said he, I said, he didn't get the auto. Like, we, at the beginning, we just sort of auto pass five people on it. He was like, that performance, it took him off being on, like, the auto pass.

But he was next. He was, he was six. And what a, you didn't bring him up. What a perfect way for him to rebound. Get a free win. I mean, I mean, let's not give the Titans defense too much credit. They're, like, they're competing for sure, but they're one, they're still like a bottom seven or eight.

They could cover this spread in, in the first half. There, I think, honestly, like, I'm not, I'm not worried at all about the Seahawks. I will make that very clear, but I really, if, you know, I feel for the team being in the situation that it's in, and I, I just, I have to say, like, for Denard Wilson to have them playing the way that they are, nobody's given up over there on the defensive side. Yeah. No, and Jeffrey Simmons thinks that. they're giving up on the offense.

Like, when you're, there is a big schism here. Creditable. He said, uh, he said after the game, how they had all these false starts, uh, at practice. He loves letting the business out from what's happening in a practice and that they didn't correct them. And I, it's not too hard to read between the lines. He's saying, I'm sick of that kid, J.C. Latham.

That's how I read it. Because J.C. Latham had three false starts. Didn't take any accountability when he was asked after kind of like, was like, oh, yeah, well, it was a different cadence. And it's like, well, everyone else didn't fall start. off those cadences, and then you're like, okay, I'm kind of seeing what Jeffrey Simmons is specifically talking about. And I feel like it's probably J.C. Latham, their first round pick from a year ago. Yeah, if you add up the EPA expected points, Cam Ward has lost 97 this season

on sacks alone. He's 38 ahead of any other quarterback in the league in terms of EPA lost on sacks. I would say a lot of those are on him, though, too. He is, by far leads the NFL and pressure to stack ratio but a lot of them are on the offensive line it's it's a smorgas board whatever the over is do that and then understand it will be all seahawks points and i don't want ernest jones to say f me because the conversation tracker is not a person uh but donald's four picks did give him negative points last week so he's actually off the board as of right now so in terms of the conversation no he's still in the conversation he's in did we have an update we did have an update we did have an

update on the conversation. I was able to talk to Steve. Jordan was a vote as well. Bo Nix is not just in the conversation now, Greg. Bo Nix is number three in the conversation behind Matthew Stafford. Eat it, Greg. After beating Patrick. Well, it says you.

Not me. No, it says the conversation. You know what, though? The conversation is measuring things that I would not. And I think is probably accurate in the mind of whatever Dolt is out there. Exactly. If Bo Nix keeps this going, at this rate, he probably will be getting votes.

Yeah, to those who say this is a nonsensical process that seemingly is based on vibes and recently bias, yes, it's the MVP award. Dad. Don't. Man, I know some of the, you know, some of the ways those Associated Press voters get their votes done. Get them, Greg.

Back in the day. All right, let's take a break. And the break is really the end of this show. But stay right here where you can hear, conversations about Eagles, Cowboys,

Rams, bucks. We got 49ers, Panthers on Monday night. Stick around for that. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down.

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